No.590[Last 50 Posts]
NGE GENERAL
NEON GENESIS EVANGELION GENERAL
And wow, I fucking hated it to be perfectly honest. It seems like the entire show is only about Shinji's angst (and Rei increasingly I'm sure) and the characters various emotional issues, but like, okay, who cares? The situations they're thrown into are totally absurd and ridiculous so how can I take any of this drama stuff seriously?
Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? Shinji was gonna live in a totally empty tenement and it's only his superior's minor moment of reasonable judgement that means he lives with her instead (and she is clearly no kind of parent figure), and Rei lives in a dark, dingy slum dwelling made of all concrete with nobody taking care of her either?
Like, their emotional reactions seems somewhat understandable but also completely dull and uninteresting because the situation they're in is absurd (and even then they both come off as pathetic and unlikeable - and no you can't say 'but that's the point!!', that doesn't make it entertaining to watch).
The less said about the non-angst portions of the story the better, the 'fights' are 10 minutes of foreplay for like 60 seconds of action if that, and while that's a common problem with anime, that doesn't make it excusable.
Yes this series is old and I'm sure it has inspired so much but people still recommend to watch it and it just seemed like garbage. Almost nothing is explained which means I can't possibly feel invested in this absurd world in any way. Every part of the setting seems to have been created with 'style over substance' in mind, urgh, just overall I found it absurd. Try not to give too much spoilers because I guess I might still try watch it, but I really don't see it redeeming itself.
Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.
No.591
I'll just say that you've just licked the summit of the iceberg, the show gets much much better later on, the first episodes are merely setup
also, if you are not an angsty teen, you'll probably relate more to the adult cast
No.592
>>591But how can such a supposedly legendary anime with such universal acclaim be a complete slog for so long? I'm literally 2+ hours in at this point.
No.593
>>590> I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' Yeah that is just bout the summary of the "2Deep4U" problem
I'm not quite an EVA oldfag and I know the fandom can get caught up in the drama, but honestly all your complaints are just subjective dislikes rather than objective criticisms, which speaks more of your interests or lack thereof. You would like the Rebuilds more probably.
However, since you actually bothered watching the show before shit-talking it, I'll just suggest reading the posts in the waybackarchive of the old 8ch leftyweebpol Evangelion thread which explain they whys and hows pretty well.
Post 4005 in the thread is a good collection of the ideas of Evangelion.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190802125217/https://8ch.net/leftyweebpol/res/2054.htmlAlso if you don't mind, when /a/ becomes a real board, I (or perhaps another poster) will make an Evangelion thread.
No.594
>>592It's a slog for you, not for others.
No.595
>>591>the show gets much much better later onlolwut It actually gets even worse. Don't waste your time, OP, it's pretentious drivel the whole way through.
No.596
>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.
I feel for you OP, I had to both read and watch No Country for Old Men for an American Studies course in college. I understand entirely that the whole story is a deconstruction of the Western story archetype. I understand it, and yet I still thought it was a bad story with no payoff or catharsis in the end. Genre deconstructions should not be an excuse for wasting the reader's time.
No.597
>>595even if you think that episodes closer to the end suck, you've gotta admit that action scenes, which OP enjoys, peak a bit later than the 6th episode
No.598
>>597OP here, I'm not saying I'm really into mecha battling, I prefer westernmechs and more 'gritty' kind of combat, but, it would at least be /something/.
No.599
>>598The Big O has the kind of combat you're into.
No.600
>>590Drop Eva go watch Gunbuster.
No.601
>>592Every intrigue requires a setup. Six episodes out of twenty-six (plus a movie as a conclusion) isn't that much.
Not to mention the third central character (plus a central side-character) arrives only in the eight episode, only after which the greater plot starts to open up.
And boy, does it pick up its pace, reaching an astounding dash by the end of it all.
No.602
>>590>Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? It's not uncommon for Japanese students to be living by themselves since the principle of independence is pushed on to the people.
>their emotional reactions seems somewhat understandable but also completely dull and uninteresting because the situation they're in is absurdThe whole point of these type of reactions is to add realism to the show and make it more believable. It's a needed contrast for the mecha fights since they're inherently unreliable even considering how the viewer has to play along with the idea to start understanding the story.
>The 'fights' are 10 minutes of foreplay for like 60 seconds of action if that, and while that's a common problem with anime, that doesn't make it excusable.It's the beginning of the show, of course the fights will be short. The whole point is to demonstrate the dynamic of daily life and the fear of the angels. The fights do get to last longer, mostly towards the end and the movie.
>Almost nothing is explained which means I can't possibly feel invested in this absurd world in any wayLike what, the Angels and the Evas? Their believableness in the beginning is an irrelevance to why the viewer should be motivated to be invested into the show since the point of the show is to watch Shinji become a hero and his story on how that happened. They need to introduce the characters and their relationships first before getting into the main story.
>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.Never saw Godfather so I can't say anything about it there but 'No Country For Old Man' I have seen and it seems to be the same thing with you. The enjoyment is the interaction the psychopath has with the world, a famous example being the shop scene and the first confrontation. It's a great film that's only long since the scenes are dragged on to add suspense, if you're not invested into the movie then the drag is annoying to watch.
I doubt you'll have any enjoyment if you do go back to Neon Genesis since the initial investment that show needs you don't have it so it won't get better. If you do, try to clear your mind of all the comments that have praised it and just go in with a blank mind since you seem to be overly worried of being a "contrarian".
No.603
>>602>>593Excellent posts
No.605
Bruh it's SUPPOSED to be shit!
No.607
>>600This. Gunbuster is a more "fun" series in general. Evangelion isn't exactly for everyone. I do suggest trying to get further into Eva before dropping it though.
No.608
Is there any point in watching this if you're not a teenager?
Seems like overhyped because of nostalgia and reverence
No.609
>>608Its not about "teen angst" but a deconstruction of human emotion. Unlike Lain, which instead categorizes and explains psychological issues rather clinically, Evangelion instead poses questions and humanizes these depictions. The most famous of this is the "Hedgehog's Dilemma" where people want to interact but are afraid of getting hurt and do in fact get hurt by relationships.
Its not overhyped, though some of the fandom can be obnoxious, and it deserves its nostalgia because for the people of its time, it was a product that spoke to them. Today's audience is very different to those of the 1990s It was about to be the turn of the century, Existential crises were globally occurring from the former USSR, to the USA to Japan, whose economy crashed enormously. There is a lot to say but frankly I suggest reading the waybackd post referenced in
>>593 No.611
>>609Okay is there an order to watch it? Is it based on manga
No.612
>>611not the anon of that post but
Eva 1-26 (EP21-24 Director's Cut)
Optional Death & Rebirth. Death is a recap of the series and rebirth is the first half of the EoE.
End of Evangelion movie is a must see. In my experience, people who didn't enjoy the anime generally enjoyed the movie more as it's tighter paced and action filled.
Optional Rebuild movies. These are the theater remakes of the original series, and there's three of them currently with a fourth coming soon. Personally, I consider the rebuild series to be inferior to the TV series.
The manga was released earlier than the debut episode of Eva back in 1994 in order to promote the anime. They were intended to be released together. However, the manga took over an additional twenty years to finish while roughly covering the same plot line as the anime. I think it's worth it for the Sadamoto's line work however.
No.613
>>611'That' anon here:
I suggest watching all the episodes and then EOE. The final 2 episodes are very trippy and thoughtful presenting a contrast to the starkn ending with EoE. I tend to headcanon that the endings mirror each other, with the latter being what goes on outside while the final 2 episodes being the inner thoughts of chrcters, mainly Shinji.
If you want more action you can watch the rebuilds, however only the first 2 films are good, the 3rd film made no fucking sense (which is hilarious for evangelion but true), and the 4th movie is still a trailer… a very insane and crazy trailer.
The manga inserts a lot of extra shit, for example the hinting of Shinji and Kaoru's kinship is turned into full-blown Yaoi-shit.
No.614
I don't want to be that guy, but subbed or dubbed?
No.615
>>614Subbed. The dub is serviceable. Don't watch the Netflix dub.
No.616
>>614Subbed is technically better but the original dub is decent and you can get a few laughs out of the frankness (look up 'evangelion baloney pony' for an example of this)
No.1255
>>613> for example the hinting of Shinji and Kaoru's kinship is turned into full-blown Yaoi-shit.no need to be in denial
No.1723
>>592Most acclaimed anime have slow starts, its to get you attached.
No.1726
>>1255It's not denial, its basically a mix of Western Dub fucking it up, and the Mangakas going Fujoshi with the characters, when the original lines are a demonstration of "male love" i.e. kinship between men, not "cute boys fucking uwu" shite.
No.1730
>>592The more anime you watch the more you begin to realize just how uncommon slow starts really are.
No.1862
>>592I guess it is somewhat slow getting to the real story, but you get a bunch of angel fights and other shit right from the start. I don't see the problem.
No.1902
>>592Because most people don't find it to be a slog, or if they do they don't find it enough of a slog that the payoff doesn't justify it.
Honestly, I think the show overall kinda falls flat if you've never been a lonely 14 year old sad boy. I think that's the issue most people who don't vibe with the show are having, so that might be it.
But I have a friend who was in a similar situation to you. I tried for years to get this dude to watch the show but he couldn't get past the first several episodes. I was confident he would like it because I knew for a fact he had at one point been a sad 14 year old. Eventually he did watch it all the way through and has been obsessed with it for the least few months.
No.1933
I went into the show expecting to analyze the kids' trauma and came out thinking, "Damn, everyone here needs therapy. I guess that's what the instrumentality was for."
No.1934
>>1933This, finally someone fucking gets it
No.1936
>>1726the mangaka is a dude and a major reifag and he still doubled down on kawarushinji, the entire point was for their relationship to have a heavy yaoi feeling from the beginning, it's why anno had a literal fag write the episode and told him to make it even gayer after the initial script
man I agree shinj wasnt full on lusting after a dude but to say they "just had kinship" is pure denialism and ur probably a closet fag
No.1937
>>1936>the mangaka1) Reminder that manga came AFTER the anime.
2) A Fujo doesn't have to be a girl
>the entire point was for their relationship to have a heavy yaoi feeling from the beginning>Anno hired a literal fag and had him make it gayerSource?
>to say they "just had kinship" is pure denialism and ur probably a closet fagwrong.
No.1940
>>1937Fujo is quite literally not the term for a male obsessed with bl pairings. The mangaka is also not one of these people. That is your insecure projection. The manga was also started before the anime but it is also it's own canon.
>Source?Why dont you do some basic research on a show your having hot takes about instead of living in a solipsistic bubble with pet theories not based in reality?
Excerpts from the first and one of the longest interviews after the airing of eva with the most popular yaoi magazine in japan:
https://evaresources.wordpress.com/staff/1997-june-anno/>wrongYour head canon is what is wrong. Pic related is the cover of the book the previously posted page comes from.
Face it. Your favorite sadboi anime has romantic gay shit in it.
No.1943
>>1940>Why dont you do some basic research on a showConsidering that I've been an EVA-fag for roughly a decade I do plenty of research, however there is also so many interviews and media that it is quite easy to miss this stuff.
>your"You're"
>Fujo is quite literally not the term for a male obsessed with bl pairingsYes yes I know Fudan whatever.
>That is your insecure projectionYes, so insecure that I don't read Yaoi and actively avoid it in media
>The manga was also started before the anime but it is also it's own canon.Started being a keyword, the anime is far more important in many ways
>it's own canonWhich is my point.
>interviewDid you read this yourself? Anno contradicts himself
<I’d sort of stopped understanding Kaworu-kun, so I couldn’t discount the possibility that I’d made a mistake. He’s just an odd guy. *laughs* His image is a little different. Well, as a character, Ishida-kun’s voice was incredibly good, so I wondered whether the stuff that I’d simply thought up on my own wasn’t a little insufficient.
So h literally admits to not being the one with yaoi intent, and just having the thees thrown in because he didn't know how else to flesh out the character.
>face itYeah you've just proven that there IS gayshit in the manga which isn't what I denied. I denied that the dialogue and actual depiction in the anime were outright homosexual. The cover page you posted is for the MANGA, which has quite a few differences in interactions.
No.1954
>>1943kek I recognize your smoothbrain posting style now
>anno contradicts himself so it's my special snowflake interpretation over established canonYeah I'm gonna go with word of god's literal description of kaworu as a homo love interest. Feel free to keep living in denial over your own and this anime's faggotry tho.
You could also try actually watching the show and paying attention this time :)>The cover page you posted is for the MANGA, which has quite a few differences in interactions.lmao
No.1957
>>1954>anno contradicts himself so it's my special snowflake interpretation over established canonNice strawman faggot
>watch it and pay attentionI did fag
> word of god's literal description of kaworu as a homo love interest<Imma just ignore that word of god also states that he didn't know what to do with the characterization so he just had it thrown in for the lulz last minute
Yeah this is why word of god is considered unreliable, especially since Anno himself complained about budget cuts only to get debunked by the budget managers in other interviews.
TL;DR: no argument; read more smart alek and don't take things at face value.
No.2172
>>2171>Manga is betterLOL no.
No.2222
>>591The first time I watched Clockwork Orange, I had a real hard time watching it cause I was hating the main character.
No.2223
>>593I was half-expecting my effortpost I made on leftypol to be there.
tl;dr, I got something very different when I saw it when I was young, than when I was older. And as another poster noted above, I understood more intimately the adult characters.
One real cool thing is the contrast between the end of the world and angels blowing shit up, with sunny days and boring cicadas. Also maturity, contrasted with wanting to connect with others on a "real" level (which has been something that psychedelics have made me more aware of), and a whole host of psychological traumas we all have. Maturity seeming to include an effort to suppress traumas (rather than solve them and overcome them).
As I'm more mature, I see this in adults all the time. Depends how empathic I'm being, there are times when other's traumas and insecurities are acutely apparent of whatever they're complaining or anxious about. I'm no exception, I'd say most of my adult life has been uncovering traumas and working through them. I have the suspicion a lot of people don't do this. Leftism has also made the trauma work easier.
Anyways, I'm rambling. The point is that EVA was an interesting series for me that touched on a lot of topics I care about. I think that at least makes it a good drama and a good sci fi series. It's not so much 2deep4you, many times it's just what you vibe with at the moment, sometimes EVA is not it.
No.2231
just watch starting from episode 14 if youre too gay to watch fight scenes
No.2252
>>590>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.u fucking wot m8. There's nothing 2deep4u about Godfather, it was the most successful film of all time when it came out.
No.2285
Don't know about you op, but what I enjoyed about evangelion was the kinda quiet scenes the series have. Like in the first episodes when they are scenes of the city but nothing special happening, just the sound of birds, or "nature"; or when Shinji its at the hospital and you can hear the lights flickering, a loudspeacker in the background. I think those calm scenes do a good contrast with the fighting scenes, or when the characters have to deal with other issues. That feeling of being somewhere you may know, somewhere you may have visited before, or at least hearing something that seems quite familiar makes the series quite special to be honest :^). It's like having some sense of calmness before the storm, I guess.
No.2410
>>1933>Damn, everyone here needs therapy. I guess that's what the instrumentality was for.Yeah but despite that Shinji at the end of the movie seems to be as mentally troubled as he was at the beginning of the movie.
No.2501
>>2410He's alright by the end of the last episode of the show though, can read that as taking place after the very end of EoE.
No.2565
>>2410It's not obvious, but his grief is symbolised the last moment in the film
when Shinji briefly chokes Asuka, but cannot bare to tighten his grip at all. He let's go, so to speak, all his baggage. And, all he is left to do is lay there. The ending is bittersweet.
I think Asuka's line at the end, "You're disgusting.," is two faced. She's a tsundere. Even though the content of her words are harsh, her tone is neutral. I think it would be read the line instead as "I need you."Watch at your accord, it's a spoiler.
https://youtu.be/pVeKyqV1jWU No.2709
>I have the attention span of an 11 year old: the post
No.2710
>>2171>takes out all the crazy weird shit that made the second half so interesting>betterm8 NGE is indistinguishable from its many shitty knockoffs from the late 90s/00s once you take out Hideaki Anno's auteur fugue state out from the equation
No.2934
>>2501>>2565Thanks for your responses. I can only say there's many ways to interpret Evangelion. But I guess that's one of the things that makes the show attractive.
>>2565I don't think that one can describe Asuka as just being a tsundere. I think there's more to it.
No.2941
>>2934There's more to her, of course, but Asuka is the archetypal tsundere.
No.2948
>>2941I supposed the Asuka/Rei debate has died down finally if there hasn't been any reaction to this.
No.2971
>>2948Do you come from EvaGeeks or something? NGE debate has died down in general.
No.3007
>>2971Well there's has been a little evangelion hype since last year due to the series being in Netflix, and that the last of the rebuild films is coming out this year.
No.3008
>>1936>it's why anno had a literal fag write the episode and told him to make it even gayer after the initial scriptCan anno get more based?
Also, Eva is a hegelian series.
No.3014
>>2971/a/ still had regular rei vs asuka threads on 8ch
No.3696
So, who you guys think is best girl?
No.3698
>>3696As OP, Asuka, at least she seems to have a personality.
No.3699
>>3696They're all unstable bitches I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot dick, but I do have a thing for fiery girls, so if I had to choose it'd be Asuka.
No.3700
>>3696I was all about Asuka at 13, but now that I'm almost 30 I think Misato is best girl.
No.3703
>>3698Have you finally finished watching the whole series?
No.3704
>>3696Rei. before she
dies her character progression and caring nature by the end show her to be a very good, if (like all of them) broken person. Asuka, is similar from a different end, but anyone who's actually had a girlfriend like her, knows that the amount of effort and problems caused is troublesome, unless you're a really chill person.
No.3714
>>3703Hell no, this is just based on what little I know. Asuka is usually always smug or smiling, that's cute, Rei is always apathetic and somber. I don't have time for that shit.
No.3720
>>3714>Rei is always apathetic and somber.<I can't pay attention to facial expressions, so I'll take the fake ones plastered on by an aggressive, abusive girl than one by a calmer one.
No.3722
>>591>NGE gets betterlmao no
Don't waste your time OP. The characters only get more annoying, the plot only gets more absurd and the lore of everything is never explained properly. NGE is the pinnacle of psued bullshit and babbies first philosophy. If it were made today, people would be railing on it each week talking about how ridiculous the episode was or how annoying Asuka was. By all means stick it out to the end (by which I mean EoE, not just the end of the series) but you'll only get more annoyed
No.3727
>>3722Oh look it's the unironic
"2Deep4Me so it's pseud-shit" poster. I wondered how long you'd take to post here.
No.3750
>>3704>but anyone who's actually had a girlfriend like her, knows that the amount of effort and problems caused is troublesomeThere's an alternate live sequence that was meant to be in EoE (but was later deleted) where Asuka is hooked up with Toji. So I guess that's how she'd be in any relationship. By the way, one interesting aspect of the Eva fandom is the shipping (even though the characters are all fucked up to be in any kind of romantic relation, aside for the fact they are all just 14 year old kids).
No.3751
>>3750Thee Asuka vs Rei argument is a classic indeed. I have some posts from leftyweebpol I made about preference and their brokeness, but I'm probably going to wait on reposting them when I can organize my time a bit better
No.3769
>>3751Well, they both are great, they have their ups and downs. But if I have to choose, I'd choose Asuka. I wouldn't mind being always there for her whenever she needs me, aside for doing all the housework for her. Plus, she's a redhead, and redheads attract me.
No.4671
>>2285Yes. The contrast of the end of the world with those moments of nothing happening.
I insist, this is the best series I have ever seen in my life. I think there is a lot of hegelian/freudean analysis to get out, which I haven't seen anybody write about.
>>2410The brilliant thing is that Shinji is the one that needs therapy the least.
>>2565I interpreted that as Asuka hating Shinji because he no longer hated Asuka enough. Asuka hates herself so much, that she hates Shinji for not hating her.
No.4675
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No.4730
>no you don’t get to say “but that’s the point”
But…it is?
No.5505
>>4684 Since (you) doesn't exist on this site these images have more impact methinks
No.5564
pleb filtered lol
No.6103
Some people want a strong woman with opinions and thoughts of her own. These people have bad taste.
No.6104
>>6103Destroying the world is a pretty strong opinion though
christian_communismChristian Communism No.6109
For me, it’s Yui.
No.6115
>>6111best girl definitely.
>>6114also this.
No.6117
>>6114Isnt he just Rei for Homosexuals?
No.6118
>>6117Rei never rubbed one out over anyone's comatose body
No.6123
>>6121this is one of many placeholder symbolism I do not appreciate from NGE. Even after watching reboot I still don't appreciate how Kaworu is depicted. Like, why would you bioengineer a boytoy for confused teen having hard time with puberty? Shinji needed a dad not girl(boY) who is easier to talk to. If Kaworu slept with either Rei or Asuka it would have been
based AF
bonus point if shinji masturbates to the scene No.6124
>>6123>Like, why would you bioengineer a boytoy for confused teen having hard time with puberty?Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants? A (boy)friend?
Shinji needed a dad, and never really had one, and wants the one that's basically right infront of him, that's exactly why getting him a new, different dad wouldn't have worked. You can look at Misato and Kaiji as examples of attempted replacement mother and father figures for Shinji and in both it doesn't work because there's a void there that can't quite be crossed, the mother-Mistato relation just gets diverted into sexual frustration with Asuka and the brief father-Kaiji relation falls short of Shinji's desire. In the end Kaworu was exactly what Shinji wanted, a christ-like father-brother figure who would love him unconditionally. Him sleeping with anyone else makes zero sense as well, that role is pretty much filled by Rei witnessing Gendo and Ritsuko, or Misato and Kaiji.
No.6125
>>6124no I was larping as gen X failed father figure. I think kaworu teaching Shinji how it's done among guys could have destroyed shinji bit further and actually cause Third impact instead of… whatever we got at the end of Evangelion. Obviously this wouldn't work with current Kaworu's design choices but if Kaworu was introduced bit earlier in the show as frenemiy antagonist in classroom settings, it might have been interesting
instead of the other guy who got crushed during test drive. he really doesn't contribute anything beyond momentary guilt No.6127
I used to be all about Asuka, but now I'm more drawn to Misato. Rei and Kaworu are great too. I wouldn't mind doing all the house chores If I was living with Misato.
No.6128
>>6127I feel you when I was younger I really liked Rei
But after a recent rewatch I felt more drawn to Misato I understand her much better now
christian_communismChristian Communism No.6131
>>6128Yep. 100%.
My bf and I watched and discussed it a lot. It might sound cringe, but it felt like I understood more about adulthood, about myself, about others. It was a very profound experience.
I watched it when I was younger and it was a very profound experience as well, but for very different reasons. As
>>6124 says
>Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants?I cried watching it. It made me feel so so alone, and in many ways I was. Shinji was insufferable, but watching him was like watching myself be a pathetic cringelord IRL that was grappling with their own alone-ness. It made me confront parts of me back then.
Second time I saw it was 10+ years later and my focus was much more on Misato. I understood Shinji much better and saw him with less cringe, perhaps because I don't see myself in him as much.
The series end is so god damn cathartic. It's like coming down from a really good acid trip.
No.6132
>>6131You know, the more I think about it, I guess properly critiquing NGE requires lgbtq perspective. I was too dense to realize that Shinji could have been suffering not only sexual frustration but confusion too. He is cringelord if I only focus on his refusal to accept adulthood but to think he could have been bi or gay teen going through puberty make things bit darker.
Did you see evangelion 3.0? What are your thoughts on ending sequence?
No.6136
>>6132>I guess properly critiquing NGE requires lgbtq perspectiveNot that anon, but I think you are right. Although not as important as the main themes, I think gender stuff is explored in the series. Like, the main cast of characters don't accomodate to gender stereotypes, especially Shinji who isn't your typical manly protagonist you would normally find in other mecha anime (something that gets him mocked and criticized by people like Asuka and Misato). Besides, there's also the fact Shinji totally fell for a guy, the attraction he felt for Kaworu was stronger than the one he probably felt for the girls. I find it interesting that Evangelion has many aspects to explore and analyze. Even to this day people are still discussing and finding new things that had been overlooked all these years since the series first aired.
No.6137
>>6132I haven't watched it. I'll watch it soon and report back.
I think more than sexual confusion is the desire for some larger than life individual to "swoop" you up and validate your existence. Growing up gay, my biggest frustration wasn't sex, but the capacity to desire freely. Kaworu is someone who is able to desire and love freely, unhindered by internalized homophobia and confusion. It also plays into one of the overarching themes about validation and lacanian self-alienation (eg the characters projecting better versions of themselves and constantly failing to fulfill these projected ideations). Kaworu is the ideal self of Shinji and becomes the object of desire of Shinji. And Kaworu accepts and validates Shinji's existence as is. He's the realization of seeking validation outside oneself.
As a gay teenager, coming to terms with being gay is extremely self-alienating. You're basically forced to identify with the foreign concept of being gay unto yourself, which causes neurosis, but Kaworu represents the overcoming of that neurosis too.
No.6142
>>6137Yeah watch it you will love it
christian_communismChristian Communism No.6150
Anyone have a link to a good torrent of this series?
No.6153
>>6132>requires lgbtq perspectiveBruh I'm straight and that shit GAVE me perspective.
No.6166
Will you all are already here I'm gonna ask you another question
What is the right way to watch Evangelion?christian_communismChristian Communism
No.6175
>>6166what the fuck kind of question is that? just watch it
No.6185
>>6166I kind of feel bad for burgernons who may never be able to appreciate subway scenes. There's this distinct ambience that only ricecels can understand about riding subway back home from work or school
No.6186
>>6185There's a distinct ambience that only comes from the brain damage that comes from breathing poisonous subway air.
No.6187
>>6186Why should subway air be poisonous?
No.6190
>>6187Why should it or why is it?
No.6191
>>6190why is it
tankieTankie No.6200
>>6192thx intersting stuff
No.6210
>>6166To put it simply, there's no "right" way. Wanna binge? Binge. Wanna watch one episode a day? Do that.
I can't pass judgement on the quality of specific subs or dubs tho.
That said, some episode may be quite good in terms of pace and action, while there are at least a couple of filler episodes, even though in reality there's always some development either in terms of characters or the background of the whole story. If anything, the first half of the series tend to offer more fast paced action when it comes to fights, while the second half has literal trips. Also, don't freak out if a lot of elements in the story don't get to a solution: this franchise is notorious for red herrings.
Watch the entire series, twentysix episodes, including the last two episodes, which are the trip of trips, then turn to the films, Death/Rebirth and End of Evangelion. The first is a quick retelling of the whole story plus the first part of the finale, but this time in a real world, action perspective. The second is the whole action finale.
Then, if you liked it or at least you had not actively disliked it, you can move to the more recent Rebuild films.
sandinistaSandinista No.6218
I've only ever watched Evangelion and the related films. No other anime resonates with me like Evangelion did, it's just pointless to watch another one for me.allendeAllende
No.6219
>>6218There are alot of great anime out there but nothing gets close to NGE
I love gibli movies but even the best are only second place
No.6232
>>6219Paprika and Perfect Blue get close to EoE's style and are enjoyable, but I enjoyed the introspection and depressive mood of the series and film which I've never seen anything reproduce at all.
allendeAllende No.6240
>>6232Its kinda ironic NGE was made as a reaction to the great stagnation that started in Japan
Now after 40 years of stagnation it isnt even possible to produce smth like this again
No.6241
>>6218Have you seen GITS? the 90s movie and SAC series?
No.6246
>>6241I have only seen the movie and while I liked it, it wasn't Evangelion tier.
>>6240Very true. Anno's mental state declining as the series went on certainly contributed to the atmosphere of the show as well. It was lightning in a bottle, really. That just makes it all the more special.
allendeAllende No.6247
>>6246>it wasn't Evangelion tier.God Tier
Top Tier
Bottom Tier
Evangelion Tier
No.6248
>>6247Did you wait for 46 replies so you could say you don't like NGE?
No.6249
>>6247Eh. That's your opinion, it's not my problem. Also like
>>6248 said, why wait for 45 replies before saying this? This is an Evangelion thread lmao
allendeAllende No.6250
>>6249It's the obligatory "Evangelion is shit" post
No.6257
>>6251>it's tru thoOk, and?
allendeAllende No.6331
1. It's a tie between Rei and Misato.
2. Will Shinji ever be happy?
No.6346
>>6329>already DMCA'dbah, it's on nyaa; dl it there
No.6363
>>6346Is the entire thing there?
allendeAllende No.6383
>>6365Thanks anon
allendeAllende No.6433
Any news about the new movie?
Is it any good?
No.6434
>>6433Was that the last movie? I haven't watched any of them
No.6435
>>6434Its the last one yes
I watched the other ones and they were ok but not great
No.6472
>>6471I recently thought a bit about the movies and I think they werent necessary I kinda understand why they made End of Evangelion (even though I like the original ending more) but everything after that was just milking the franchise bc they are unable to create smth as great again
No.6477
>>6472>even though I like the original ending morewhy is that?
No.6482
>>6477Spoilers obv.
Shinji realizing his own flaws and commiting to overcoming them and then the hole cast coming together to gratulate hime for this just works for me it has some lightheatness to it like all of what happened was just part of his personal journey to overcoming his flaws and becoming a better man it also makes clear that between all the giant robots monsters and christian metaphors Evangelion was in its core about trauma
In comparison the ending of end of evangelion turns this around shinji isnt able to overcome himself Misato is dead he is choking Asuka who just pitys him
I cant prove that but for me this ending represents the personal failure Hideako who after all just couldnt do it you couldnt overcome himself
But I love the Asuka fight scene but the progress that is made there is also a bit lost when in the end she just lays there with shinji
No.6484
>>6482I loved both for the same reasons. The incapacity to ever fully be trauma-less. Shinji chooses to not be part of the human instrumentality project because existing is better than not. He's fine with having all that pain as long as we get to exist. Then he wakes up and the first thing he does is try to choke Asuka lol. Pain and trauma are nasty as fuck, but the alternative is to be One. The contrast with Asuka not even struggling because he understood Shinji and saw him as pathetic instead of trying to win his approval all the time. It's both sides of the coin, our trauma, and other's trauma as we experience it.
In general I liked the idea that we are separate, and alienated from each other, but to become One was untenable too. We will always try to become One, and our failure to do so will cause trauma. So, trauma is the contradiction of individuals and the One.
No.6488
>>6484I agrre there is some worth to the alternative ending
Creating a direct opposite ending is still a bit weird to me
No.6489
>>6482It could be my memory failing but wasn't final episode of NGE supposed to be happening inside Shinji's head as Third impact was happening in the movie? I thought they were intertwined not meant to be alternative. I thought Shinji's conclusion was that he'd rather live as a painful individual then sedated blob of mass while Asuka abhorred Shinji from her core.
No.6854
>>6848Based. Best girl from the start
No.6868
>>6848Im probably still to young to apprerciate her
No.8490
>>8483I have a lot more respect for Eva now
No.8493
>>8483Hmmm,
If Anno hates his fans what would Anno think of the people who think that Eva is overrated garbage, though?
No.8494
>>8493Maybe he just ignores them
No.8498
Why is there always at least one massive Evangelion thread on /a/ with the same debates and posts as always? I just remembered that.
>>8479Well, I find that ironic cat meme to be more incomprehensible than Eva, if I'm being honest.
I might be remembering things wrong, it's been years since I watched it.
At the end of the original series (in the finale movie), during the Third Impact, all of humanity turns into a liquid that's called "LCL", a state in which they're supposed to be happy because people's insecurities are eradicated since everyone complements each other as they have now become one. Because of how it played out, all the people that turned into LCL have the choice to regain their human/physical body at the cost of having flaws and potentially hurting each other as separate entities again. No.8500
>>8493He wants them to think that precisely. There is nothing more pleasing for him, than to see some weebs discussing and raging over this show
No.8504
>>8500Then what does he think about the people who enjoy seeing fans rage over it?
No.8512
>>8504I assume he is indifferent to it, as he essentially is that person too. He only wants to stick it to otakus
No.8513
>>6328???
Is this just some kind of IP cash grab like star wars
No.8514
>>8513tbh i dont quite understand what anno is doing with NGE there are like 20 different endings now
Does he need to money
Does he want to make everyone happy
No.8515
>>8513100% yes.
>>8514It's called greed.
No.8517
>>8498>that spoilerbruh who the fuck made this show
holy shit what the hell does it all mean
i kinda get it why people talk about it still now
No.8519
>>8517IIRC
AT fields are a metaphor for the divisions that people put between themselves and others for various reasons, for good or ill. They're what enable humans to maintain their individuality. The instrumentality project dissolves the human AT fields, in which all humanity merges into one collective consciousness. By eliminating the AT field and merging humanity, the pain created by division is supposedly eliminated as humanity achieves perfect understanding of its constituent parts.
Shinji balks at this in part because he's mortified by the ordeal of being known.
No.8538
>>8517If you want reasons, read this
>>8483 No.8543
>>8483That fucking shithead creep who jacks it to a unconcious girl is gay?
I have seen this show talked about everywhere but I never knew that happened in the show
Anyways I googled the show and can't really find much of the "hate" the creator has for the fans and otaku but that might becase western news sources might not cover it as much
Whatever. I'm not really into the otaku shit and I don't really understand the point of making something you hate or watching something that you know is made by somebody who hates you but whatever
This fucking anime is too good damn layered with metaphors and deep irl lore too it seems. Not my tempo.
>>8519I am a narcissist. I would love to be known over and over and over again.
I want everybody to read my mind and fully become me and I want to be inside everyone.
I don't know any other sexual innuendoes to make of this.
>he ordeal of being knownSeriously tho, What does this phrase mean exactly
Like does it mean that everybody will know your entire lifes actions, dreams, fears?
Is this shinji character not accepting of who he is and what he has done
No.8556
>>8543>That fucking shithead creep who jacks it to a unconcious girl is gay?It's very heavily implied, not explicitly stated but it's obvious that Shinji had feelings for Kaworu (at least in the original series), but still there are fans who completely deny it.
As for the masturbation scene, well, the cast is full of fucked up individuals.
No.8567
>>8543Shinji's fucked up and can't deal with rejection. For him every opportunity to connect with someone is a new opportunity for someone to find out how rotten he is, and subsequently abandon him once they've gotten their use out of him.
Shinji being gay is debatable, but his time with Kaworu is some of the only time that he's actually happy, in part because Kaworu accepts Shinji unconditionally. Which of course makes it all the more traumatic for Shinji when he has to murder him.
No.8571
>>8567HE FUCKING KILLS HIM?
i hate shinji
No.8573
>>8571do you know NGE only from the memes?
No.8574
>>8567The true crux here is that Shinji is not the rotten one. Everyone else is and they can't connect to each other because of it. The idea of Shinji being a porcupine was projection.
No.8575
>>8573I don't know NGE at all
Everything I have known about it so far has been against my will
I like gag anime like Dr.Slump and Dragon Ball
Not mecha stuff
No.8583
>>8571Bro, you're literally skipping the whole series and going straight to the ending spoilers. You lack all of the context.
Go and watch it, it's only 25 episodes. It starts slow and seems like any other mecha series until Asuka joins the cast (iirc). Then it becomes a wild ride.
No.8600
>>8592You just exposed yourself as a soyjak.party migrant.
No.8642
>>8574Generally I'd agree, yeah, but it's a projection that Shinji's internalized. That's one of the reasons I really like ReTake, because Shinji has his epiphany and comes around to the idea that, hey, maybe
he isn't the fucked up one here.
No.8644
>>8642>>8642>but it's a projection that Shinji's internalized.Exactly.
No.8669
>>8592Critical Support to ShroomChads to kill the soyjaks forever
No.8748
>>4786>It's a MariShin ending>Mari is a time traveler who knew his parents <It's DEEEEEEP <HOAD https://imgur.com/a/YlWfywmFuck Anno, his original work was great but the rebuilds were worse in almost every aspect, he unironically should have jacked off on camera and that still would have been a better ending.
No.8749
>>6123>>6124>Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants<a boyfriendExcept that's not what Kaworu is or is meant to represent originally, it arrived because of Japan's obsession with Yaoi. Even Anno himself mentioned in an interview that he approved the Mangaka's Fudaka shit because he didn't know how else to flesh out his plot-device of a character.
Shinji isn't supposed to be gay or bi or any sexuality, because that's not the point at all. He's looking for love while simultaneously believing that he is not loved, because he doesn't think himself worthy of love and therefore affection - this is worsened by Misato struggling with her own grief, Rei being mindwiped and placed in her new body, Asuka going off the rails and all his friends being sent the fuck away.
And so at his lowest point, Shinji meets Kaworu, who with a constant smile and persistence continues to interact with him, his Angelic nature meaning that he disrupts human social customs because he is unaware of them. Then it turns out he is Tabris and Shinji is forced to fight him, and Shinji states
<"You betrayed me, like my FATHER" Unless we're reading Adam Kadomon fanfiction, Shinji wasn't sexually involved or in any way attracted to Gendo and the relationship between father and son differs to that between lovers, which would imply that Kaworu had become a support for Shinji, with something as vulgar as sexual attraction being irrelevant.
The inclusion of "sex" into the manga cheapened this, as did Kaworu's wanton killing of a kitten with the typical nihilist "it'll die anyway" garbage. It's not the gayness that is annoying, but how it translates the desperation of Shinji into a discount homolust tease doujin. While the anime doesn't fuck this up, the manga goes full retard with it, and subsequently we've had a consistent rise in KawoShin shipping garbage and associated cancer. Not that unironic Asuka-Rei fags are much better, but given Kaworu's character being pivoted on Shinji (from the audience's point of view), it devalue's his character into "muh gay bishounen uwu" tosh rather than being the rather beautiful symbolism he was.
TL;DR: It ain't about yaoi-shit or romantic crap but about desperation and it's search for a supporting love.
No.8750
>>6185Anyone living in a burger city like Chicago or Boston that has to commute can understand this, as do Russians and Europe.
No.8751
>>6342About 4 months late but don't watch that shit, it's trash.
>>8729>soyjacks all aroundHow unoriginal
>>8575The hell are you doing here then? Also goddamn get some better taste.
No.8752
>>8501Come Sweet Death is the meaning. I think that's where the old 4chan meme came from.
No.8753
>>8483>this rookieshitThis is a decent post but it barely scrapes the surface of the complex embroilment of Anno's insanity.
No.8755
>>6848>Cold Clinical woman who has little moral or ethical qualms>hates her mother but emulates her anyway >projects her hatred for Gendo using her for sex onto Rei, further stunting the latter's social growth and making her subconsciously miserable <'best girl' I can understand and sympathize with her on a human level, but she's a few strings short of a war criminal, She'd probably kill you in your sleep with an undetectable poison she'd concoct out of sheer boredom.
No.8756
>>8748I haven't watched any of the Rebuilds so I don't have the patience to try to understand this chaotic collection of posts.
So Asuka
ends up with Kensuke and Shinji with Mari? What happened to
Kaworu and Rei and their fans?
No.8757
>>8751>About 4 months late but don't watch that shit, it's trash. If it's fun or helps me understand fan reactions better, I will watch them. Not like I'll take them as canon over the original series.
>The hell are you doing here then? Also goddamn get some better taste.stfu f/a/ggot
No.8759
>>8757If you absolutely have to watch it, then I suggest you drink while doing so. After 2.0 I couldn't get through the last 2 films sober, because every moment of stupidity and drama made me want to shake Anno by his lapels and ask him to stop.
No.8762
>>8759>because every moment of stupidity and drama made me want to shake Anno by his lapels and ask him to stop.I know absolutely nothing about the films except for a couple of details and the existence of Mari. What's so stupid about them? Please give me a quick rundown.
No.8767
>>8762Ok first two films were not as good as the original, but moslty followed the original series up until Zeruelstill tried to remain consistent with the themes, and did have their own good ideas, however now Angels are much easier to beat for no reason. There is also some hints about it being a continuation from EoE where everything starts over anew but with traces of the previous series (the Ocean is LCL for example). On top of that when facing Zeruel, Shinji is conscious and he causes 3rd impact by trying to pull Rei out, only to be stopped by Kaworu with yet another Spear and another Evangelion from the moon.
The scene where Shinji fights Zeruel for Rei is pretty good, btw.
However now we get to the real shit show of 3.0 and frankly I'd have an easier time listing what is not wrong with it, among which is the Kaworu and Shinji playing on the piano scene.
I suggest enjoying these video reviews, as they put things into words better than I can manage at 4AM.
DemolitionD series on Rebuilds
Part 1:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dwnvbPart 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEn6-vLYvFQPart 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sATCoI7Ozk4Pleeb and Weeb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtEVnhf0z8 As for 3.0+1.0, …I don't even know where to begin to describe the awfulness except to say that it's not even Evangelion at this point anymore. Oh I guess Mari - she's a time traveling 'friend' or sister of Yui Ikari and she basically becomes Shinji's girl at the end, because it was in fact her grand plan all along to bring Shinji happiness - yes the entire mess where she barely interacted with anyone and barely did anything outside of jobbing in her Eva, was part of a grand attempt to fix everything in some strange timeloop thing. It was essentially nonsense, and Anno tried to pretend that "The Curse of Evangelion" was an analogy for Evangelion plaguing everything he did or was, forcing him to repeatedly work on it to appease fans… and that 4.0 was him breaking away and being free… which was all nonsense of course.
Oh and the artstyle and animation is worse with it's reliance on CGI, pic 2 related.
No.8792
>>8748>he unironically should have jacked off on cameraIsn't that pretty much just what the script for Evangelion is anyways?
No.8802
>>8792Kek, no.
>>8756>Kaworu and ReiRei
wants to become a farmere and live in solitude and peace but without LCL her body just falls apart. Kaworu reveals himself as
a being that exists in all timelinees or something like that, and that this whole thing has been going on over and over and over again and that Shinji needs to end the loop. While there is no KawoShin content, the fujos went full retard and have been spamming /a/ evangelion General threads with their garbage for months since the movies release.
No.8827
>>8802>LCLdon't you mean AT field?
>no KawoShin contentI thought the movies were gayer than the series, or are you just talking about the latest ones?
Also what happened to the other couples?
No.8867
>>8827>don't you mean AT field?Nope, LCL
<"Rei requires constant exposure to LCL and cannot maintain herself, decomposing in Shinji's presence." >are you just talking about the latest ones? The gayest moment in the series outside of the manga fuckery is Rebuild 3.0 where he and Shinji are constantly together, in 1.0 and 2.0 it's straight as an arrow for relationships.
I was referring specifically about 4.0 in
>>8802 where Kaworu is barely in it.
>what happened to the other couplesMisato apparently had a kid with Kaji but abandoned him at a farm with other survivors. Touji and Hikari got together and are adults, Kensuke is still alone, Asuka is actually a clone or something and is also alone, Shinji ends up with Mari after Gendo and yui sacrifice themselves during 5th impact to reverse infinity or something and basically create a world without Evangelion, a la The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki, where he meets Mari as adults and they walk off into the future.
Oh and Mari is apparently some friend of Yui's from some alternate past.
No.8886
>>8867>mariIt would have been nice for them to set any of that up at any point in the previous decade
No.8901
>>8867>Kensuke is still alonethank fuck
Thanks for the summary anon
No.8917
>>8886>set up MariHah, yeah. But fuck the audience is Anno's motivation for Evangelion in the past decade. The creator of mari actually ahd to come out and claim the Mari timetravel bullshit was non-canon, because fans were so annoyed at how half-assed this trivia was, especially since the movie doesn't actually openly go into it and it's a manga extra that went along with the rebuild story.
>>8901 You're welcome.
No.9118
>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.
Nah OP, that's called having taste.
No.9126
>>8867Personally, I don't think Shinji and Mari are a couple like some people like to suggest, for me it seemed pretty ambiguous (not that I have anything against them being together). But I guess it's up to interpretation. Kaworu and Rei could definitely be a couple. The only romantic interaction so far is between Asuka and Shinji when he tells her that he also liked her, making her blush.
No.9130
>>9118>That's called having no tasteFTFY
No.9132
>>9117>Why hasn’t Anno been able to connect this theme with the Rebuilds and instead opt for more meta themes?Because the rebuilds are about trolling the fans and making money.
No.9472
>>9088This is one of the best videos Owen has made. I'd recommend anyone else in the thread to watch it
although it isn't really that related to Eva No.9654
>>592You should understand the show is basically a satire of the anime that was being made at the time, the tropes involved with mecha shit and harem shit. A lot of what the show is doing won't land or will come off weird without that context. A lot of what's stupid about it is what was stupid about these genres at the time and the stupidity and wrongness is heightened to explore that. It's your typical deconstruction. The reason people like it so much is that most of the characters have their emotional problems developed pretty fully and they all paint an interesting picture of social dysfunction. I won't pretend it's the greatest thing ever but if you appreciate it for what it is it's pretty good.
No.9656
>>8886Pretty sure the point of the rebuilds in general was to give the fans the finger for all their dumb bullshit. Mari is there to be the ideal fantasy girl and the fact that she ends up with Shinji without any build up and entirely of her volition is basically that idea taken to its logical conclusion. A lot of the rebuilds make more sense if you look at it through the lens of Anno giving the fans what they say they want but in a way that blue balls them because what they want is stupid and he resents them for it.
No.9658
>>9654Also watching TV series as new episodes are being released is a very different experience from binge-watching it.
Evangelion was designed to be released in episodes for TV with a specific schedule.
No.9662
>>9658This is a good point. The pacing works better with gaps, and especially later on it's better to have breathing room between episodes.
No.9828
Embedding error.
Michael Bay's Evangelion was an ADHD parody… I just love how everything is off. The angels are off, the look of the women are off, Gendo was bald. Ironically the Rebuilds weren't too far off from it.
No.10059
You thought Evangelion is finally over after 4.0?
You fools, the milk train is still going!!!
Train Anime Shinkalion Z Announces Evangelion Crossover Ya can't make this shit up!
https://archive.md/xgOcF No.10061
Should I watch the latest eva movie? I already have it on my HDD but I can't bring myself to watch it after the absolute dogshit the 3rd movie was.
I'm still mad about that one.
No.10066
>>10061It's not as incomprehensible as 3.0 but it is just as bad IMO. See posts
>>8748 >>8802>>8867>>9774TL;DR: it's inane and I Do (Not) Recommend 4.0 At All.
No.10085
>>10082>saging your shitpost Coward. The video is shit, it's not even sarcastically parodic so it's gaping inaccuracies just prove that this ECeleb approached the series determined at disliking it before they even saw it. The fact that their entire argument is centred on a generic "muh depression" line that literally says nothing is just boring. The whining bout lore is also typical weeb bullshit, they always want lore explained (especially when lore is not important) but don't seem to realize the explaining the lore past a certain point in a non-adventure quest type story is retarded, nd moreover whenever lore is given it is either done inanely, kills the story or is hated by the fans because it "(over)explains the magic" (see rebuilds as a good example of all 3 happening).
So yeah that fucking review is pretentious as fuck.
>overrated Not really unless you're a speedreader/watcher, the show's content is pretty clear and just about everyone knows the context of its creation, going into it blind is impossible even if you read the synopsis.
>garbage Shit taste. Evangelion's animation, art style, characters and plot is all benchmark quality. You can nitpick details or dislike things but the actual content is objectively well made.
No.10091
>>10085Eva is still hot Garbage, though. It's not really deep at all. Anno has always been a hack who can't write a interesting story at all. All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all.
Eva is basically babby's first exposure to elementary philosophy, and even then it really isn't that deep or even well done. All of the symbolism was simply done because the studio and Anno thought it was cool.
No.10094
>>10091>saging again Are you actually this much of a salty faggot?
>Its garbage<no argument >it's boring <No argument Just making claims doesn't make them true. If you didn't find it interesting =/= it being bad you dumb fuck. I have utter disinterest in FMA but it's still a well animated show that has a consistent and intriguing plot.
>All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all. 1) That's literal bullshit and implies either psychosocial issues of your own or a childish black/white understanding of people
2) Characters not being likeable doesn't make them bad you dumb fuck. I loathe a character like Admiral Akainu from One Piece, but he's not a bad character
>Muh Anno <hack hack hackGood job discovering America bro, you've done it, Evangelion's hype is no more, here's a cookie! …Are you actually this lacking in self-awareness? Everyone in the fandom knows he's a hypocrite and that's fine, it has literally no negative impact on the story being told, among the reasons being because people often ARE hypocritical, FFS; we're contradictive beings.
>babby's first exposure to elementary philosophy No it really isn't you dullard. If I had a dollar for every retard who took
>we chose christian symbolism because it was foreign and mysteriousto mean
>literally every visual in the show is nonsense and irrelevantI would have enough money to pay Anno to make another shitty Eva movie. The symbolism got picked for its aesthetic, but it's integration required forethought and actually reflected a lot of actual Abrahamic ideas and concepts.
>it really isn't that deep or even well done Given that it's fairly straightforward, you're either legit too stupid or a ponce. It's not supposed to be people spitting out textbook definitions of psyche bullshit.
No.10095
>Good basic summary of Evangelion The show is a massive exploration of the human psyche and more-over a realistic look at what it would be like to be a traumatized, motherless child who's forced to pilot a cyborg god-imitation to fight eldritch creatures ironically named angels, with the stakes being the end of humanity, while also being treated as a tool and dealing with their own personal issues.
A lot of great works are essentially 'fuck yous' due an artists frustration in the medium they work/live in.
Personally, I've never been a big fan of anime overall but I enjoy the series and a few others since what must have been just a few year after the turn of the century. I'm disgusted by the sexual objectification of the characters and I personally put little stock in the religious imagery, beyond that which progresses the story.
The thing to love about Neon Genesis Evangelion is the characters themselves. They are not role models, heroes, or even cool - far from it. They are flawed and at times intensely flawed. Look at protagonists in almost any great work, they are flawed to hell.
The study of these characters and their flaws is what makes the show interesting. Their actions can be great acts of kindness, humanity, and then suddenly do complete 180s, because they are changeable and human. There is nothing wrong with liking these characters. I personally don't associate with them in every way, I certainly don't heroize or sexualize them, hell I wouldn't want to be friends with some of them. But I am fascinated and drawn to them.
>Inb4 Serial Experiments Lain is betterThe show right from the first seven minutes establishes the subjectivity of the narrator, and the depersonalization of Lain between the wired, and the "real," and the shows finale ends off as a sublimation of the two into a greater understanding of the self, the perception of Lain in both worlds are no less real, and it does so through a cross-examination of the popular technology at the time, the internet. The show was largely based off post-structuralist thought from Deleuze.
This is all true and good, however Evangelion does its explorations well too. The difference here is that NGE is not there to make hard factual conclusions, but to trigger thought and consideration, and thus is abstract in many areas. The exploration of Asuka's trauma and her resulting behavior can be explained as a defensive mechanism in simple psychological terms, but this dry, scientific explanation bypasses the human element. Of the problem. Anno does not TELL us this or rather, as many anime, have Asua tell the audience by divulging this to some character, but rather we see it in her nightmares and her psychological episodes as she breaks down in the face of Shinji and Rei's growth, destabilizing her carefully built pedestal of superiority, created to hide her fears and sorrows created by her mentally ill mother.
The same goes for Rei and Shinji only from their own unique dillemas. The problem is that Anno was in the middle of depression and having his own deep thoughts, which, coupled with the enormous pressure on Gainax to make a hit, caused the entire staff to be on the edge of breaking down, and often going over the edge. This reflects on their work. But many of its viewers, were not under this pressure or did not relate to it and thus misinterpreted the results.
Rei and the Clone issue is well explored here:
https://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1998-January/009037.html https://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1998-January/009201.html No.10096
>>10094https://reelrundown.com/animation/An-understanding-of-why-Evangelion-is-so-heavily-despisedGive this a read as well. I'm sorry that you feel that way but Eva has always been shit, and you only think it's deep because you heard so many other people on the internet say it is.
No.10097
>>10085>>10094I have to admit, Evangelion is the worst I've ever seen. It feels like someones sick joke. Compared to it even High school DxD feels like pinnacle of story telling and character development. You can't even put it in "it's so bad it's good" category. Almost everything about Evangelion is repulsive. It's bleak, cringy, filled with pseudo-psychological nonsense and senseless symbolism. It is prime example of a superficial anime with little to no substance. Characters are boring and obnoxious. Seele looks like a boogieman placeholder. NERV isn't a research center (I don't even know what it was suppose to be), it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs, and is run by sociopath with a god complex. Nothing is explained and everything means nothing. Who, when, why, how? Who cares, but lookie here, we have a bunch of squealing, squirming and agonizing kids just for your entertainment. And a cherry on the top is the ending, with two episodes of mental and verbal diarrhea with no meaning whatsoever. Just a white noise.
I've watched enough anime to understand that modern ones for the most part are as shallow as they come. They're just entertainment, way to kill time. Some of them offer something to think about, most of them don't. Some have interesting stories, most of them don't, but they have other things going for them. From time to time I seek out some old anime because they usually have some value in them, and most times this was true. Most of them were great, some of them were just "meh", but I never thought I'd dig up something this disgusting that I have to reevaluate my opinion on older stuff.
So, this is how I feel about Neon Genesis Evangelon. I hate everything about it, and that would include its creator. And I do realize that by hating it I acknowledge its significance. And that is true, it is significant, because not a lot of things leaves such strong and lasting impression on me, even if it's entirely negative.
No.10098
>>10096>you only think it's deep because you heard so many other people on the internet say it is.I've been in the fandom since it began, piss off.
>link The link doesn't prove shit, it makes statements and then reaches a conclusion it already stated before the statements. Or rather the article makes correct statements and then concludes that these things making people dislike the show indicates that it's bad, and not that these dumbasses kept viewing a series clearly not aimed at being escapist fantasy.
>people generally indulge in fiction as a means to escape reality for 30 minutes to an hour This is the most pathetic reasoning I've seen, comparable to "cartoons for kids can be shit 'cause they're for kids". Just because capitalist reality drives people to escapism does not make escapism the end-all-be-all of fiction. Explain the escapism in a horror movie or a historical drama? Evangelion is, from the very beginning obviously not escapist in any form, it's literally a criticism of escapism, that's a central theme, demonstrated by Shinji's "I musn't run away" . You don't like it? GOOD, that's the point, that means it's getting under your skin and making you feel and think rather than take the animated equivalent of a morphine shot. Escapism makes the prole become a lumpen and so dulls their ability to work and self-improve, and to live life in reality.
>Summary of plot excessively focusing on the detail of DNA mixing, ignoring key aspects <it's confusing and dats bad That same logic means The Matrix is "confusing and bad"
Infantile take. Half the content listed in the summary are excessive details. Even then I read it and the plot is understandable: A boy having special ability is summoned to fight a looming kaiju threat in a near-apocalyptic world in a giant 'robot', he's unwilling to fight and a psychologically damaged person, but does so for the greater good, acquiring friends and other relationships as he goes along. But life is not easy the monsters are dangerous and the 'robot' is actually a cybernetic biological organism. But rather than defeating the monsters, the main point is the conspiracy to ascend to a higher plane of being using utterly alien biotechnology and Shinji struggles as he or rather his Evangelion Unit becomes the focal point of this conspirational plan that results in all life on earth being liquified and their souls merging together.
As a synposis of 26 episodes and a single film, it's strange, but fairly simplistic makes sense and the fact that people today lack the attention spans to follow the story is indicative of their inability to do so. The things that remain unclear or mysterious are purposeful, it's a vast crisscrossing network.
An example of this mystery and obfuscation being attempted to be cleared up is 1st Darling in the Franxx (a ripoff that adds in a little Gundam) and the Rebuilds. Both attempt to explain their lore and mysteries and it just comes off as inane because you only have a certain capacity of time to explain the intricacies of biology and socio-economics, and you're left having an overinflated story lacking space for plot to develop.
>is a wimp that matures naturally like any real teenager would. So essentially people (that complain about "muh Shonen protags" usually) also don't like characters that don't have plot armor and don't act like happy-go-lucky retards but like real people. Again that speaks not about Evangelion being shit, but about people having either shit-taste or just being too fucking lazy to look at a genre list and decide
"yeah I'm not into drama/tragedy/etc., I should look for something fun and exciting" TL;DR: The article states several key parts of the story and it's aim, these not being liked by escapist viewers does not make them objectively problematic. Not every piece of media must be tailor made for all audiences.
No.10099
>>10096>you only think NGE is good because you heard other people say it on the internet>anyway here's a random guy's blog explaining why Eva is objectively shitAlso, that article only explains why so many people hate NGE, it never claims that NGE is "objectively bad", and its conclusion is that people hate the show because it's not for everyone/not the type of show most people expected.
And the author's right. If you didn't like it, that's ok, but it does not mean that it's a bad anime. It's actually amazing how you could share that article without understanding it, and who knows if you even read it because it quite clearly spells out why it was well executed and why people who hate Eva missed the point of the whole show.
Evangelion does not try to be a typical anime. It doesn't even try to be a typical story. It goes a completely different way than most people would expect from an anime, so it's not surprising that so many viewers get mad at it for not being what they wanted it to be, and in fact being nothing like they wanted. But there are as many people (or more) who love Evangelion for what it is as there are people who hate it for what it isn't.
It's not even "2deep4u", I'm quite sure that you would be able to get it easily if only you didn't see it as a failed typical anime and instead saw it as the unconventional kind of story it is. Or perhaps you already understand what it's about and what it does, but still hate it because you know it's something that makes you uncomfortable.
>>10091>All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all. That's kind of the point and the characters being dislikeable (which isn't a universal opinion btw) does
not mean that they're bad characters in any objective way, especially for the kind of story that Evangelion is. They are perfect for the story they're in.
>All of the symbolism was simply done because the studio and Anno thought it was cool.The religious symbolism, which was done for style, is not the point and it's not meant to be deep or important. Neither that nor the lore are the point of the story.
>>10097>filled with pseudo-psychological nonsense Could you at least point out specific examples of that?
No.10100
>>10097>Compared to it even High school DxDThese stories literally have nothing in common. DxD is fun and silly and is basically combining a Shonen protagonist and a semi-Isekai harem ecchi, having some deeper themes tossed in for plot and character development.
Evangelion is a essentially a mecha anime that satirizes many tropes in the genre and acts as a medium to express existential thoughts of the people creating it (despite popular misconception Anno did not create all of it or all of its ideas).
>It's bleak Yes that's the point
>Cringey How? You mean Shinji or what? I'm fairly sure that Shnji being "cringe" is the point, that's a introverted teen for you, not a moeized "cutie" but a rather annoying wimp. Do you refer to Asuka? Again, a traumatized girl trying to be mature and ending up just being obvious about her insecurities.
>Senseless Symbolism Yeah I already said this once before, just because Anno said ONCE in an interview that he picked a design aesthetic because of the looks, doesn't mean the symbolism itself is meaningless and that's obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention, I'll cover an example in another post so I don't text-wall too much. Heck I literally talked about this in the post you reply to.
>Pseudo-psychology <Pseudo Yeah that's a hard no from me. It's not COMPLEX psychology, and its not meant to be, it is however correct and covers ideas of Id, Ego, Super-Ego and other psychological concepts accurately. It doesn't analyze them from a scientific aspect but from an psycho-emotional one; that's the point of it. Serial Experiments Lain is the series that defines psychology more scientifically, because that's the point of THAT series. See
>>10095 >Characters are boring and obnoxious. Boring is your opinion, obnoxiousness of many characters is again intentional, Misato isn't supposed to be a role model of a stable person nor is Asuka or Rei or Shinji, that's the POINT FFS, to demonstrate people as they are, fundamentally broken, not heroized fantasy versions of them. The main characters are sympathetic but also off-putting on purpose.
>Seele looks like a boogieman placeholder.The fuck are you on about? SEELE is a cabal of rich people that run society, just like porky today, it doesn't need to be detailed because it's not extremely important to the plot. You sound like you spent too much time on /pol/.
>NERV isn't a research center Yes indeed it isn't a research center, that'd be Gehirn. NERV is stated to be
a special organization that was put together to combat the Angels after the Second Impact and is the organization responsible for the creation of the Evangelions. >it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs, and is run by sociopath with a god complex. yet another claim that essentially tells me you skimmed the series and learned most of this from memes and /a/'s statements.
>Nothing is explained Covered in
>>10098>everything means nothing Congratulations you reached one of the ideas of NGE that sometimes, in spite of all effort things end up being meaningless… except y'know the part that has Shinji reject Instrumentality and the idyllic illusion it represents and continue to live as an individual, because you should fight to survive and try to achieve something even if nothing is guaranteed.
>we have a bunch of squealing, squirming and agonizing kids just for your entertainment Imagine being this fucking disingenuous about the depiction of suffering in the series. They don't get tortured for kicks, they get injured doing a job that they shouldn't be doing, but have to, against eldritch monsters, getting hurt and traumatized is par for the course, do you think combat and conflict is supposed to be like a Superhero cartoon or something? No consequences at all?
>two episodes of mental and verbal diarrhea with no meaning whatsoever You're just literally just repeating memes made specifically to be disingenuous and ignoring the material realities of those episodes.
Your entire impression of Evangelion doesn't sound genuine at all, I'd try to reverse search your text to check for Copy-Pasta, but I can't be arsed to waste time scouring the internet for something that petty. Long story short not only are you just objectively wrong but to be honest your subjective opinions are boring and generic too because you're taking things too fucking seriously "I hate everything about it" congrats buddy you're literally r/whoooosh-ing this series because rather than just saying"meh I didn't like it" and moving on you admit to dedicating the time and energy to hating the series and demonstrate that you didn't even bring yourself to try and at least pay attention - in essence you viewed it just to be mad about it.
No.10102
>>10097I'm
>>10099I forgot to add that none of the shit you mentioned about Eva (some of which is highly subjective and vague, like "cringy") means it's bad. Some of it is even intentional, like
>bleak>NERV isn't a research center (I don't even know what it was suppose to be), it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs>run by sociopath with a god complex>Nothing is explained and everything means nothing No.10104
>>10100>>10097Honestly rereading your rant, it sounds like you read an Adam Kadamon* fanfic, not NGE itself.
>Symbolism exampleHere are some I suppose:
Man's relation to the spiritual is discussed in the show, but this is an argument people have been having since before 4chan. Some Newfag shows up, says "EVA's imagery is literally pointless, here's a quote where Anno says crosses look cool," completely ignoring that the series is about alienation, the fetishization of child soldiers, and the behaviors man exhibits in an attempt to keep himself safe from harm. It's not a flat "hurr durr muh super robot deconstruction" or "*hits blunt* dude Jewish mysticism lmao"
The Angels design reflects biblical ideas of rather eldritch looking angels (literally floating eyes and rings or giant leviathanic creatures) and the concept of the Chamber of Guf and Geofront 'Egg' parallel Manichean Cosmological mythology quite closely, too closely to just be random aesthetic.
Also someone pointed out that angels are a world-known concept that even the Japanese would be fully aware of Anno's naming of the monsters in his show as Angels (with canonic biblical names no-less) as an obvious irony. Along with NERV's motto "God is in his heaven, all's right with the world" which contrasts to the underground nature (both literally and socially) of NERV.
The Eva Units are essentially bastardized copies of of Adam and Lilith just as devils are born of the flesh of Lilith, the estranged first wife of Adam and of Lucifer.
Rei is born of Lilith and Yui Ikari and in EoE Shinji and Unit 01 acquire a set of wings and after mulling things over after having connected to all humanity's souls, rejects Instrumentality, essentially playing the role of Lucifer by granting the idea of choice for people and also that of Jesus by essentially be crucified and reborn. This is done too coherently to just be random symbolism. Even DxD that you mention is not that haphazard.
This isn't to say all imagery is purposeful, the exploding crosses of their light weapons (that shaped the idea of modern anime Angel weapons) are definitely just for a cool factor and some of it is just half-baked ideas that Anno retained. But that doesn't discredit the rest of the show and Anno isn't the only guy making it, but merely the head of a large collective.
since linking articles is legit apparently:
https://archive.ph/OAzzL Religious imagery aside (as that is the least important of it) the imagery in symbols like hands position and gestures come up many times and indicate different meanings. Pic related is the most basic bitch and obvious examples. Before you say 'lotsa anime use hand motif' Evangelion specifically focuses on it repeatedly and often, almost all of them the Right Hand. 'Hand' most frequently represents the ownership, power, or control that its possessor (either an individual or a people) has. Shinji constantly forms and unforms a fist when he's nervous or angry because those are his hand actions when he's inside Unit 01. It's about the only place he ever feels comfortable and also no doubt provides an immense feeling of power (and also at some deep level is a connection to his mother). It seems to be something he does when he's particularly unsure or nervous. It even goes back to the religious ideas (though I doubt Anno knows this one)
>"The hand can represent the whole person, symbolizing the achievement of what is promised with the mouth ( 1 Kings 8:15 1 Kings 8:24 )." >"The hand of God, and especially the right hand, is also understood as a place of salvation, refuge, and protection (16:8)."And further more there is a scene in EoE where Rei's voice asks during Instrumentality, "Then what is your hand for?" during Shinji's internal debate and struggle.
*an example of his horrendous writing being taken part:
https://forum.evageeks.org/thread/9647/Fanfic-Firing-Squad-The-Second-Other/ No.10105
>>10103>Video is just a massive meme comp of <muh religion is just for cool<it's just stuff for no reason <they only explain at the end and don't really explain <EoE doesn't make you understand uts happening As if the chaos of EoE isn't fucking intentional. And also, aside from the actual Third Impact mental debate EoE is fairly fucking simple, posting ECeleb videos is not an argument.
Also
<Muh Lore(someone literally said "people know the lore for what it is because of like 20 video games" ignoring that those are completely AU.
This is honestly so tiresome, because none of these videos are saying ANYTHING concrete, they're just making claims and either don't back them up or cherrypick scenes out of context.
Also the video literally says
>"it gets too much praise undeservedly" Fucking kek, the one thing that NGE fans have joked about and mocked for over a decade and is known to be of lesser importance to the story than many other things, is apparently getting to much praise… from who?!
A good comment talks about that "
People paying more attention to the Religious imagery than the Characters internal conflict is like missing the forest for the trees, the entire cast is a reflection of Anno's fractured psyche and the tumultuous times Japan was living through. Conveying such personal chaotic abstract emotions while leaving yourself completely in the open it's not easy or simple, it's meant to make the audience reflect and come up with their own conclusions., the thesis of the show is to stop seeking external validation and instead find your own self-worth, Shinji rejecting the Human Instrumentality Proyect is a metaphor for that."
On top of this, "
Evangelion is not about Theology or Religion, all of the Religious imagery and simbolism is an Aesthetic choice that adds to the Atmosphere and gives the show it a sense of mystery. In order to build the Lore of the series it borrows freely from pre-existing Terminology and Iconography, DC/Marvel do the same with Greek/Roman myth for Thor/Odin/ Loki/Hades/Hercules/Zeus., etc. … I want to add that all of these choices also double as an homage of sorts to older media like Mazinger, Devilman, Ultraman and many more, which not only inspired Evangelion but also made frequent use of similar kind of imagery."
No.10107
>>10105>(someone literally said "people know the lore for what it is because of like 20 video games" ignoring that those are completely AU. kek this, IIRC most of the lore is already within the original TV series, the extra scenes in later releases and the movie; the manga and games aren't necessary to understand the plot/lore, at all
No.10976
>>10104>>10105Ignoring all religious imagery, or rather all imagery and symbolism in general, NGE is still a fantastic show.
No.11072
Aren't there already several threads just like this one?
>If it was made today people would be complaining endlessly about the plot making 0 coherent sense, about the lore being nonesensical and confusing,
Well, people already complain about that endlessly, and they're wrong anyway.
>about the amount of bad cgi shoehorned into every scene that was supposed to be epic or impactful
There was CGI in the TV series?
>about shjnji being another loner protagonists in a sea of loner stories designed to appeal to virgins in their 20s
If I recall correctly, the point of Eva wasn't to appeal to that audience and make them feel safe in their comfort zone. Quite the opposite.
>It's shit
You just mentioned things that people who misunderstand Eva complain about. Bait
No.11074
>>11070In this gay & pointless OP
>people'd complain so its bad People today complain about anything I don't give a damn.
>plot making 0 coherent sense it made sense in parts, but the story is told in portions that intentionally deny the viewer from knowing the story because you're not supposed to understand the grand conspiracy because, as in reality, most cannot fully comprehend such a scheme and the methods or end-goal.
>Muh lore It's lore is coherent for the plot, anything else is unnecessary.
>bad CGI Fucking where? The only CGI used in Evangelion is in the Rebuild movies, the original is completely hand-animated
>another loner protagonists in a sea of loner stories designed to appeal to virgins in their 20s. If that's your interpretation you missed the point entirely. Also as you pointed out, it got made in the 90s, and its story and tropes hadn't been done to death at the time.
Honestly this just sounds like you looked at memes about Evangelion, and saw some clips from the rebuilds and made an opinion based on that. Git Gud.
No.11075
The only thing even slightly confusing about Eva is the end movies and even then it's not like you have to be steven hawkwind to figure out, unless you're the kind of person that loves marvel movies
No.11082
>>11080>viewer has to do the writers work and imagine a coherently functioning plotline LMAO imagine making this shit up because you need to post your shitty gayjack. If writers put everything upfront there'd be no story. ach epsiode has coherent Beginning, Middle and End, and the plot of each episode has impact on later episodes, up until the end it's blatantly clear as to the plot - there is an eldritch threat and a limited method of combating it riding on the shouldrs of childrn that aren't cartoon heroes. Have you read a book or seen a film involving a conspiracy before? 'Cause the shit you're demanding exists only in garbage like Nolan's Tenet.
>humanity somehow developed mechs capable of sending nuclear scale attacks and capture Eldriche They didn't develop mechs they used cloning on biological organisms that they used cybernetics on.
>capture Eldritch GodsMore like their progenitors and using this alien technology they found. If you actually observe NERV operations you immediately see the complexity and infrastructure required to run the facilities, it's literally obvious as heck in the first goddamn episode.
>couldn’t build a rocket or base to get off earth when the third impact hit Are you retarded? The entire conspirational plan is specifically to induce 3rd impact but on humanity's - or rather SEELE's - terms and Gendo attempted to hijack the Human Instrumentality for his purposes of reacquiring Yui. It's outright stated, jackass.
Not to mention the fact that abandoning the earth to go where exactly? If the countless scenes of destruction didn't make it abundantly clear from the beginning, the 2nd Impact melted the polar ice caps and destabilized earth and society - wars, hunger, chaos and more - all as the preparation for the coming of the Angels, that are dictated by the predictions in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Sorry if your attention-span is too short for even the blatantly obvious.
No.11084
>>11082>If writers put everything upfront there'd be no story.I think he's just one of those fags that think worldbuilding is the same as plot. He wants to know everything about how the world in Evangelion works, so when the story only gives away the necessary details about this world, he considers the plot incomplete and incomprehensible.
No.11089
>>11084Yeah probably… kinda sad TBH
No.11094
>>11093nta but I always thought of the writer and animators more than I did the characters in the show specifically
Like, Jesus what was wrong with them? Their egos and minds must have been thoroughly shattered for it to devolve the way it did. There is a dialectical relationship here that I feel like you're missing out on.
No.11095
>>11094The problem is that those characters are unlikeable and with the bad worldbuilding in NGE it gets hard to feel anything for them every time the story builds up to a major arc or change because so many plot holes are apparent that it loses meaning especially at the end where the constant reminders of technologies as simple as fucking rockets or hell even storage for sperm and eggs easily blow away any emotional impact the viewer may have for the story
No.11097
The best way to enjoy Evangelion is to not watch any of the series or movies and only read the hentai doujins.
No.11098
>>11093>he story doesn’t have any sense But it does doyjakfag
>Muh marvuuuul Burger spotted,
>>>/hobby/ is the place for your capeshittery.
>ignore every time a major plot hole forms Name a specific plothole in the original series, no rebuilds.
No.11099
>>11095>hose characters are unlikeableSee
>>10100 >bad worldbuilding in NGE Fucking how? Explain yourself anon. And no bringing up the movies is not an argument.
>every time the story builds up to a major arc or change because so many plot holes are apparent Explain; what plotholes are you on about.
>at the end where the constant reminders of technologies as simple as fucking rockets or hell even storage for sperm and eggs easily blow away any emotional impact the viewer may have for the story Are you actually retarded or did you miss the entire "the planet suffered the equivalent of a meteor impact and rapid climate change flooding cities and creating an eternal summer? Did you miss the Rei clones and the reasons it's fucked up? How the fuck do rockets solve anything? It's not like they created the Evangelion for kicks.
If you're not going to bother making a coherent argument and just spam meme-tier shitposts that are outright incorrect, then I can only assume you're either a troll or just stupid. Unironically 2Deep4U.
>>11097 Cumbrain… but ironically less of a faggot than OP.
No.11101
>>11098Sure I can make a plot hole
Like wtf is the point in building easily destroyable mechs when you have the technology to build advanced ai integrated weapons system like the ones we literally see in the first fucking episodes
Or what’s the point in killing all of humanity when your not even gonna get rid of sperm and egg storages
Or why the fuck NERV is exclusively centred in Japan and the rest of the planet seemingly does nothing about the fact that there are Eldritch gods and aliens blowing up cities every fucking day
And I can just keep on and on with this obnoxious shit
No.11102
>>11095>The problem is that those characters are unlikeableAnd that's bad because…? Plenty of people enjoy this anime, both anime fans and normies (I know a couple who liked it). It doesn't matter if the characters are "unlikeable", maybe that's the intention and had the desired effect on the audience.
No.11104
>>11101>wtf is the point in building easily destroyable mechsDid you do LSD during the runtime? They're not built, they're cloned cyborgs using ALIEN technology. Moreover they're facing creatures that clearly are demonstrated to be immune to everything including nukes from the first 5 minutes of the first episode. The EVA regenerate and can neutralize AT fields. **not to mention their key role in the 3rd Impact.
>what’s the point in killing all of humanity when your not even gonna get rid of sperm and egg storages Are you autistic? You're one of those retards that gets an anal itch over Skynet not using mass chemical gassing and bio-weapons against humanity because you can't look past an artistic admission. Moreover they're not killing humanity, they're pulling a Grey Goo and merging humanity's consciousness into a single mass of LCL, so that people lose their ATF barriers - and so individuality - and never have to suffer or feel pain again, an ideal that essentially eliminates the very things that make us humans, and the key part of the last episodes is Shinji - a boy that has every reason to embrace Human Instrumentality - ruminating and thinking about his feelings and coming to the conclusion that it is better to suffer but also have the capacity to feel real joy and happiness and so live as an individual.
>why the fuck NERV is exclusively centered in Japan Yeah you really are retarded
1) NERV is stated repeatedly to have American, German and other branches that are also key.
2) Tokyo-3 is located in the giant cavern containing the body of Lilith and is a giant alien space 'seed' called the Black Moon. All of this is stated in the series, the alien origins of it are expanded upon outside the series because they have little impact on the story.
>I can just keep on and on with this obnoxious shitNone of these are plot holes and it's only obnoxious because you're a speedreading faggot.
No.11105
>>11102>maybe that's the intention Pretty much.
The study of these characters and their flaws is what makes the show interesting. Their actions can be great acts of kindness, humanity, and then suddenly do complete 180s, because they are changeable and human. There is nothing wrong with liking these characters. I personally don't associate with them in every way, I certainly don't heroize or sexualize them, hell I wouldn't want to be friends with some of them. But I am fascinated and drawn to them. >>10095>>11094 Anno and his collective had been depressed and the economic crisis that Japan plunged into is a partial influence - Anno's Godzilla displays the bureaucracy of Japan's ineffectual gobirment and Evangelion also reflects this.
No.11124
>>11122checked
>>11123 Nice stuff, thanks!
No.11206
>>11204Yes it is indeed a hope that many of us have… but please uygha use the catalog
>>590 No.11211
>>11206fuck the catalog and fuck you
No.11270
>>3699>unstable bitches I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot dick >but I do have a thing for fiery girlsKek
>>4733>reminds me of my momOedipus is that you? Jokes aside, I'm glad this thread didn't have the "muh BPD" shitposters. That are inevitable on current leftypol.
>>3700Best taste.
No.11286
>>592Watch the first movie, Death. Then The End of Evangelion. It's the fastest.
No.11400
>>11393He called it Adam and Lilith, what do you think?
No.11401
>>11393The Ultraman references MIGHT be in End of Evangelion after 3rd Impact (the Mass Production EVA on crosses) but not the initial series, as discussed already liking aesthetic and referencing other media does not exclude religious symbolism also existing on its own merit.
No.11449
>>11393People constantly point to the Crucified christ and muh cross images but miss the subtle ones like pic related,.
this thread has some discussion that goes over the subtle yet strong message carried across
https://archive.ph/8AF9e No.11659
Just watched the final Rebuild, what a bizarre film.
No.11707
>>11659it is brilliant
after all this time shinji becomes the God of the multiverse and creates this world that we physically live in - anno speaking against being an otaku yet shinji is literally the axis by which all existence revolves, yet he is also a God which negates his own condition, like Jesus sacrificing himself for the sake of humanity. We are the resurrection of the redemption of sin, in maturity, in love, in romance.
the visuals are perfect
the music is stellar as per usual
i even had a mini mental breakdown after
it is exactly what it could only be.
No.11708
I'd like to see what would happen if you took Shinji and Amuro and had them switch roles
No.11826
I’m amazed you didn’t also mention how she also set back shinjis personality back all the way to the first episode considering it’s likely 3rd impact wouldn’t have even happened if that bitch didn’t get shoehorned in the show when you realize that shinji was actually becoming more of a man each episode
No.11828
>>11825>deliberately dislikeable characters are supposed to be viewed as either antagonists or beaten down by the writers for comic relief and satisfaction for the viewer, not viewed as actual peopleI swear fags like you almost make me want to defend NGE
No.11830
she's cute though
No.11831
asuka is a good character because her role is responsible for causing the ending in EoE, which is objectively the best outcome for humanity
No.11832
>>11830She’s also annoying as shit and every second she’s on screen feels agonizing
>>11831Wtf
No.11833
>>11832Don’t feel confused anon, there’s a lot of stupid shit about NGE that fans won’t admit, like how NERV managed to develop a positron laser that could down an AT field from light years away but refused to use it again for the rest of the angels, from the fact that everyone that got blasted by third impact likely came back to life after a few days rendering the story worthless, to the fact that there were companies stating that they could overcome the AT field and build mechs that didn’t require pilots but then mideaki had to straight up retcon that episode by randomly causing the machine to collapse and start up again to avoid killing misato and ensuring Shinji and the other pilots could have an excuse to even use the damp things. NGE isn’t a masterpiece it’s a pretty generic mecha series with above average animation, the writer themselves admitted there wasn’t even a point to adding mechs or Christian imagery in the show beyond finding an excuse to say NGE was different
No.11834
>>11825>deliberately dislikeable characters are supposed to be viewed as either antagonists or beaten down by the writers for comic relief and satisfaction for the viewer, not viewed as actual people Is this how you think of unlikeable people in real life? lol
Also nice, trying to revive the board with bait.
No.11836
ASSuka is one of the very few 2D girls that actually deserves to be raped, what a massive cunt she is holy shit.
No.11839
>>11833
> NGE isn’t a masterpiece it’s a pretty generic mecha series with above average animationI enjoyed it tbh
Still, why does everyone keep saying it's a masterpiece?
No.11842
>>11839>Still, why does everyone keep saying it's a masterpiece?Hegel
No.11844
>>11839Because every anime post use Kai is shockingly even shittier and also something along the lines of “oh wow Shinji is LITERALLY me”
No.11874
>>11839>Still, why does everyone keep saying it's a masterpiece?Because it has "feels" and symbolism
No.11876
>>11836>pedophile >misogynist>blames asuka for shinji being a moping little bitch with no back bone that stumbles through to his eventual melodramatic temper tantrum purely due to plot armour and sperg rage rather than any kind of real character development>probably a manchild neet incel that lives with mom and relates painfully to gary sue shinjiMany such cases
No.11892
Why do so many of you fail to understand the point of this anime? holy shit
Even normies can understand it better than you
No.11893
>>11270>>unstable bitches I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot dick >>but I do have a thing for fiery girls>Kek There is no contradiction there, especially if you take it for granted that you'll never touch a real woman anyway
No.11951
>>11893>There is no contradiction there Nobody said there is
>you'll never touch a real woman anyway Guess again fag.
No.11952
>>11948>Shinjis character kept resetting every episode last episode 6No, realistic character progression isn't like a video game save, you can regress according to the situation; Not to mention that Shinji's character "regression" occurs after Episode 8 and mostly due to repeated traumas in each episode.
>Asuka was effectively useless the entire story Incorrect, she served as a representation of a different psychological issue than Shinji and also did plenty as an EVA unit, in terms of practical effectiveness, she remained superior to Shinji.
> extremely annoying making watching her die make me and a fuck ton of people who watched it apathetic No I think it's only you and a couple others, given the sheer number of Asuka-fags.
>the manga The manga changes and inserts things that did not occur in the original series, mostly to its detriment.
>3rd impact shouldn’t have even happened to begin with It'd happen regardless of Shinji, Shinji simply became the focal point due to the prior circumstances.
>shinji was allowed to actually develop as a character or instead of being constantly set artificially back Except he didn't get artificially set back, he got smacked down in his life again and again pushing him to give up and be apathetic.
>hideaki admits staying as orange juice for the characters is a personal decision That doesn't make it pointless
>should’ve been with Toji Why?
No.11954
>>11892Because they're filtered by the surface angst.
No.11956
>>11825>I don’t care how much the writers spent on making this annoying ass teenage kraut easy to feel empathy forThe entire point is that she's hard to empathize with because she's so abrasive and closed off that you'd never think about her past traumas and even if you did become aware of it, it'd still make interactions hard, as is noted by most of the thread.
No.11959
>>11951>>you'll never touch a real woman anyway >Guess again fag.lmao you took obvious self-depreciation out of context just to make it look like a personal insult, what the fuck is wrong with you?
No.11961
>>11959>you took obvious self-depreciation out of context>>especially if YOU take it for granted that YOU'll never touch a real woman anyway Usually YOU is in regards to someone else, not as self-deprecation, so it is not obvious, you should have worded yourself better.
No.12286
>>12284Exactly, anon, you finally get it.
Also thanks for reminding me of the existence of what's-his-name, he's a qt 3.1416.
No.12309
>>12304I agree. The ending might be confusing, but it definitely isn't sad or hopeless. And that's the point of the whole anime I guess.
No.12329
>>12284the original evangelion is GOAT in spite of its flaws, as visual storytelling and as a character study it's got the juice
the rebuilds are what happens when you write yourself into a corner during a project you stopped wanting to do halfway through
No.12332
>>12286>lowkey desperately wanting to get into the pants of your hot boss, but unbeknownst to you she's a psychologically crippled alcoholic who confuses sex with genuine attachment>she's already taken for a third of the show and then is in crippling grief over the death of her lover for the final third>get manipulated into doing some girl with the dragon tattoo shit by her during this>she gets blown up after being shot multiple times>spend the final moments of your life witnessing horrors beyond all comprehension as the world ends after you spent the last eight hours trying to fend off literal special forces with an SMG>last thing you see is that creepy kid you work with morphing into your crush causing you to explode into gooppoor dude never deserved this shit
No.12334
>>12330Takehito Koyasu is fucking everywhere (pic related) so it's not that surprising.
>>12332Maya too (the girl who was in love with Ritsuko)
No.12338
Teens are naturally sexualized by something called puberty.
No.12352
>>8767Thank you for this post, I did read it the day you posted it but forgot to reply.
From what I've seen so far on the internet it looks like the Rebuilds are basically Evangelion but as a shitty mecha anime played straight. Am I wrong?
No.12358
Shinji a fag for not fucking misato
No.12359
Puberty must be stopped
No.12370
>>12359Funny enough that's why puberty blockers were invented.
No.12383
>>12330Jut goes to demonstrate the VA's talent
No.12391
>>12383Should we have a seiyuu/voice acting thread?
No.12393
>>590>It seems like the entire show is only about Shinji's angst (and Rei increasingly I'm sure) and the characters various emotional issues, but like, okay, who cares? The situations they're thrown into are totally absurd and ridiculous so how can I take any of this drama stuff seriously?
>Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? Shinji was gonna live in a totally empty tenement and it's only his superior's minor moment of reasonable judgement that means he lives with her instead (and she is clearly no kind of parent figure), and Rei lives in a dark, dingy slum dwelling made of all concrete with nobody taking care of her either?You missed the point entirely. Shinji is the only one who has his shit together despite having to fight with angels and his dad being an asshole and a weirdo. Rei, devoid of everything is only able to be midly functional because she is devoid of everything.
The series is about everyone else.
Shinji's angst is a foil to everyone else's angst.
No.12396
>>12393>shinji is the only one who has his shit togetherehhhh
really depends on which take on shinji we're talking about, like
>TV Shinji: flawed but pretty much the most normal person in the cast>End of Eva shinji: has seen and been through so much shit that he has regressed into becoming basically a school shooter>manga shinji: sarcastic little shitgoblin>rebuild shinji: just sorta there No.12419
>>12393Pretty sure the show was about not running away from one’s problems
Anno himself even added about living up to expectations to the point where the joke get in the robot shinji references that idea of actually not running away when problems come up
No.12420
>>12391Might be a good idea actually, though if someone does make it it should be an effortpost of an OP, and not just someone dicking around. A la the Animator thread or other high effort OPs like ANIMETA and Anime Recc thread.
>>12396>rebuild shinji: just sorta thereNah Rebuild Shinji is essentially the shinji that "mans the fuck up" and "takes action" as the critics of his character want him to do and in doing so demonstrates how Gung-ho attitude fucks shit up most of the time (a.k.a the lesson the original TV series taught using Asuka).
No.12474
>>12453nothin wrong with that
maybe if shinji masturbated more the world wouldn't have ended
No.12476
>>12474>nothing wrong with thataverage cum gremlin
No.12482
>>12476nuttin wrong wit nuttin
No.12522
the one problem with anno's thesis
he doesnt explain how to get a gf
No.12523
Here’s my list of problems with rebuilds
- pointless and bad cgi. It’s shocking to me how overused cgi is in all the movies, ending of evangelion had cgi but it wasn’t constant only in instances where handrawing animation was literally impossible with the tech available. Rebuilds use cgi IN EXCESS. It’s to the point where ordinary backgrounds get flustered up with play dough looking 3D models fucking everywhere when it would unironically be easier to use cels or 2d sprites to make moving backgrounds that actually organic. And that’s just for backgrounds as for animation oh boy skip all the mecha fights because the entire animation department despite having a larger budget collectively gave up on actually planning how fights would be choreographed, how ideas of conflict and physics would be communicated and hand drawn in favour of just blasting generic anime music while having fucking maya models duke out on each other
- sound design is shit. Again the original evangelion although i didn’t like it had a level of believability in the sound of its elements that these movies just don’t. The Eva’s don’t sound like half organic half mechanical creatures whose sound travels at measurable scenes they sound like the shit you’d find in every generic anime fight in existence with endless screaming and the sounds of buildings being destroyed without buildings actually being destroyed.
- writing, I’ll ease off the creators for this one because rebuilds gave needed closure and development to characters that was needed in the original nge since anno kept resetting shinji as a character and forcing asuka on screen purely for fucking pedofanservice. Rebuilds still do this but to a lesser extent that’s tolerable.
> art design actually degraded. One thing I hated about NGE and I mean NGE specifically not EOE was the way things looked. Nothing about the Eva’s look conventional in combat, they’re too bright, they’re too easy to see from a distance, their structure isn’t conventional in real world or fictional combat, and the same could be said about the pilots. Nerv looks semi normal but shit like the blue haired bitch or missy or being purple haired and eyed for no reason or having asuka unfortunately be a fucking ginger all was unnecessary and makes the events in the series less believable and easy to take seriously especially when the classroom kids actually look like human beings. As for the angel designs they should’ve been drawn based off real world organisms because some of them look batshit ridiculous *ahem* diamond bitch. The rebuilds don’t fix the art design of this show they make it worse. Now in 3 + 1 you have random sci fi looking cargo out of batshit no where, pilots that are even more needlessly colourful and abstractly structured, ruins that are just covered in red since the background artists were too lazy to treat LCL as a fluid covering infrastructure and not literally being it, shittier uniforms that don’t fix the fact that they make teenagers look like their in spandex suits while the pointless vfx look like something out of one piece
That’s all I can say about rebuild bye
No.12525
>>12524>no argumentsAs expected also 98% of Eva fans are confirmed pedos. Nge isn’t perfect but rebuild is its own brand of shitty
No.12526
>>12525The best version rebuilds could’ve been would be a continuation of the original end of evangelion in the same art style with 0 cgi with an ending where humanity is starting to come back with shinji growing into a better person. That’s it, no new lore, no Mari, no characters having their ageing set back for shitty pedo fan service, no short haired ritsuko, now more anime fights. Just an ending that’s not violently saddening and makes sense is the best version of what rebuild could’ve been
No.12535
>>12522It wouldn't surprise me if there were dense retards who actually think this.
No.12536
>>12535There’s a lot of retards in the Eva fandom
Personally i feel like anno himself is responsible for why that fandoms shit, the endless and pointless teenage nudity, shinji never really being allowed to evolve as a character until the entire fucking world gets destroyed, character designs that don’t match in the conditions the characters are in(don’t even get me started on the nonhuman hair colors of the main cast) this list keeps going. Evangelion doesn’t have to have a shit fandom it’s just a symptom of the shows writing and art design that that fandom attracts and produces such a degenerated audience
No.12552
>>12536>pointless nudityIt's usually not in the original series IMO
>shinji never really being allowed to evolve as a characterHe does, his character progresses and regresses over the series in reaction to his interactions and traumas. He opens up but then gets shut down. He tries to be decisive and the results hurt him more often than not, making him regress into himself; this is one of the main themes of the series.
>the nonhuman hair colors of the main castLMAO
Rei is a fucking test-tube clone made from alien DNA and Shinji's mother's DNA, Ritsuko is a bottle-blonde and Misato's hair is a variant of raven-haired, having purplish coloration. Everyone else has standard brown hair and Kaworu (a literal alien) is obviously albino.
Asuka's red hair is not common, but can exist IRL and in the shade she has too
>character designs that don’t match in the conditions the characters are in???? They're fairly normal characters, they aren't starving (at least not in Tokyo-3) so their bodies are just fine.
>a symptom of the shows writing and art design that that fandom attracts and produces such a degenerated audienceYeah no, that's not really true, fandom cancer of this kind exists in every fucking fandom of popular anime and movies, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Harry Potter, Marvel films, DC etc. The audience is no more or less degenerate than any other icon pop-culture show.
No.12557
NGE is just a wish-fulfilment harem isekai. It makes no sense that a scrawny 14-yo boy with no muscle mass has 5-or-so girls and 3 guys lusting over his cock but if you take this absurdist premise at face value you might find some amusement out of it.
However, having unlikable characters, as in characters with clear obvious flaws that only seemingly exist to stir up drama doesn't neccesarily mean you have to hate it for doing that. You can say it's bad writing on that alone, but try not to be frustrated with the tension, but appreciate it if you will, something capable of frustrating you to this end is praise-worthy if you think about it.
>I hated these movies for they're pretentious
I unironically think we're actually the same person. I'm not much of a movie buff myself but I'd pick something short and to the point with movie production values over some movie with people talking on the phone and 5 minute long sweeping scenes. Movies should be entertainment. Scenes should be viewable out of order, you should be able to watch 5 minutes of a movie out of context and feel satisfied.
EVA isn't meant to be deep. It's meant to relate to your self-hating teenage self. I didn't watch it until I had seen 200-300 other shows. I still haven't finished bebop either but I have watched the first half of bebop twice. I think their reactions aren't dull just because the stakes are high; they're dull characters that only think about getting laid and couldn't care less about the end of the world. They likely can't even fathom it. Would you believe yourself responsible for the world if you were told so? Wouldn't you be unhappy? Though you say you've only seen 6 episodes, then assume the whole show is about Shinji's angst. That's a bit silly. Also I mostly just read books. NGE's legacy is pretty good. Watching the third movie for example I could feel the maturing of the author. Hayate no Gotoku is a great harem. You have seen and read HnG right OP?
No.12559
>>12557>NGE is just a wish-fulfilment harem isekai. It makes no sense that a scrawny 14-yo boy with no muscle mass has 5-or-so girls and 3 guys lusting over his cockHoly shit I don’t even like evangelion
I think it’s a terrible anime that tries to hard to be smart but even I’m gonna step in and say if thats what you got out of the show you either completely misinterpreted the media or your retarded
Asuka hates shinji, not in a baka shinji not masculine enough. I mean actually fucking despises him for justified reasons and for reasons expressed by the other characters of the show for being a pathetic faggot and entitled.
Rei straight up forgets his existence on multiple occasions because she only exists to follow gendos orders and has shown on repeated occasions to be discomforted by shinji and the rest of the characters in the show for honest reasons ranging from not being good at talking to people in general to literally not having a properly functioning nervous system since she’s a synthetic organism made out of cell tissue off a kid that was strangled to death by a roastie
No.12561
>>12557>NGE is just a wish-fulfilment harem isekai. It makes no sense that a scrawny 14-yo boy with no muscle mass has 5-or-so girls and 3 guys lusting over his cock This has to be bait.
It initially
appears to be a """harem""" because it deconstructs a bunch of anime tropes that were common back then (and even today). Asuka, Rei and Misato are deconstructions of character archetypes that already existed in the 90s, that's why it looks like a """harem""" to you and why you believe that makes it """wish fulfillment""". Not to mention there's nothing "isekai" about it. Evangelion is anything but wish-fulfillment anime, even though it is a more realistic and fucked up take on those kinds of stories.
>harem anime>greatlmao
>>12559Shut up and calm down, edgelord.
No.12564
>>12557>Movies should be entertainment. Scenes should be viewable out of order, you should be able to watch 5 minutes of a movie out of context and feel satisfied.You flat-out don't give a fuck about movies as an art form if that's how you think, holy hell just go to tik tok if that's what you want
No.12567
>>12559Instead of telling me I'm not understanding the puddle that is EVA. I'm simply stating facts when I mention the 8 or so people over the duration over the show that mention his cock in one form or the other. Saying Asuka hates Shinji does not disprove this. Stating some obvious fact and implying I didn't know of it because I didn't mention it? Really? Do I need to mention every single goddamn obvious thing? Tarzan is a cannibal, probably ate his own shit, too. Wow so deep man, you just HAD to tell me that because it wasn't quite literally stated out in the show itself… what's that? Asuka literally said she hated Shinji? To his face even? Wow. That is quite literal. Good thing you mentioned it then.
>>12309814>it appears to be a harem but it's so deep it's only pretending to be>bait!If you assume my comment is bait, then don't bother replying. You've already vilified me in your head and you have not taken anything I've said at face value. You didn't deny what I said. It only shows your extremist view on a word that can be used to describe both extremes of the spectrum and much of whatnot in between.
>>12564>art means you have to watch a scene and be bored out of your mind because that's what art isArt is appreciation of a craft no? If a movie is not a movie but a boring conversation happening on telephone between short 5second long takes. Then it is simply a bad movie. I indeed do not care about calling something art that does not deserve it. Most art is crap. Should I appreciate it for being art? I'm sorry but why should I?
>go backSee. You do not care to engage in conversation. Why are you here then? I can play this game too. You didn't bother trying to understand me, you just assumed, gave it exactly 10 seconds of thought and then assumed your impression was the right one. Your getting hung up over me having standards that differ from yours… I care about movies enough. Pretensions can be found in all areas including movies. If you think playing a 3 minute long mexican song in its full extent is anything but filler, an ad, poor movie making, then feel free to explain why this exact scene is doing something for you. But to me it's boring drivel and I'll be bored watching this performance for I've got standards and am not impressed by the average; specifically if it proclaims to be art. Art is not infallible.
No.12568
>>12567>art needs to spoonfeed me in order to be engagingnah, that's just you being lazy. Art is give and take
No.12569
>>12567also
>5 seconds is a long takeholy hell what is your attention span
No.12575
>>12567Eva isn't that fucking deep nor does it pretend to be. Read the thread.
Actually it seems like most "critics" of Eva think it's either "shallow as fuck" or "trying to be 2deep4u". It's neither.
No.12605
>>12352the og eva is mecha played straight too, anno is a huge toku nerd
No.12630
>>12624No, he does understand the cartoon and he doesn't like it.
No.12631
>>12630>he does understand it, he just doesn’t like itFucking
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No.12718
I mean. Doesn't this just prove the point? I call EVA part harem and the only argument you seemingly have against this is that one (read ONLY ONE) of the girls at one point in the story tells us (the audience) how much she hates the MC; Even ignoring the context in which this is done. Is not something I frankly see a counterpoint.
As for movies. I watch movies and know they're mediocre when I see them. Saw Golden Eye for the first time today. I must have seen some Bond as a child and I cannot imagine how this would not be boring as a book (as in movies should be movies, books should be books). My favorite scene was Bond being a dick to his drive instructress and the scene in which the guy 'exploded' in the phone booth. It was a very bad movie though. I had more fun reading some random crackers manifest. OP's post is great at bringing out NPC replies though. But just because any retard can reply does not mean they are writers. And that's just the worth I'd ascribe to their observations. Folks here are too hung up on words and getting their quick replies in. Some movies are boring. I prefer them not to be. This makes me less of a person for whatever reason. I also like my comedy to be comedic. You can only truly appreciate something for what it is if you don't pretend it needs be anything else. I've read the classics before I undertook anime and movies so I've got a much better grasp on what standards are. The entire world can't even properly feed themselves proper food, so isn't it safe to assume they also can't properly digest art, humor, conversation? Doesn't it make more sense to be contrarian if all you read are things you can't reason with?
No.12721
>>12718I agree that the show has harem elemets, which it tries and fails to subvert. However the rest of your post sounds like a massive brainlet cope. You are amerikkkan aren't you?
No.12722
>>12718NTA but… Have the knockers to reply to the actual post you reply to
>I call EVA part haremIt's a parody of typical harem situations but played realistically; there is no harem, there is no real harem gags, or rather the gags are depicted in a real manner; cringey or horrible.
The rest of your post is irrelevant rambling.
No.12723
>>12721I don't watch movies in order to flex my brain's muscles. Movies which are at best a highly condensed idea. A commercialized forme of an idea that would take at least 50 hours to properly explain and sustain through proper ironman methods. Saying something sounds like something is just spook mentality. Why should I value you knowing that the majority of people is incapable of being right? You certainly don't truly concern yourself with me. You've never written anything. Then why would you be ever truly capable of conversation? Continue making vague assertions. If I validate your critique I have to validate you as a person first. You have not convinced me you are. I rather understand how to fix my chair than getting to understand a movie that is not fun; at best a game of semantics.
No.12726
Ok Burger
No.12727
>>12723you're an idiot hth
No.12767
>>12761its been "selling out" since the 90s
but that is also another layer of it's postmodernity
ayanami and so on and so on
simulacrum
No.12769
>>12767You're 10 years late to the "joke".
No.12770
>>12769how do you know that i wasnt there 10 years ago? :^)
No.12771
>>12770That's even sadder.
No.12774
>>12772That's the kind of response I'd expect from someone regurgitating U/ACC memes that got stale after twitter got hold of them in fucking 2015.
No.12787
>>12761I noticed it too. Evangelion is officially hypebeast shit now.
No.13674
I think that one of the smartest things that ano done marketing wise for his own movie was the end the series with some random ass ship. That way if you don't like the new movies retards will say that you don't like a ship. As if I even care about that shit.
No.13680
>>12788I like some of the sneakers and jackets. Where do you even buy this shit
No.13811
Soooo did the last movie make the Rebuilds canon to the original series or not?
No.13817
>>13811I mean kind of? But since it's such a lazy attempt at "le meta looper" meme I don't think of it that way.
No.13880
just watched 2.0, i love evangelion so much bros
none of this shit makes sense
No.13924
>>13880Did you like 2.0 for being nonsensical or dislike it for being so because you like NGE?
No.13949
>>13924i love it, i think the jank is part of the fun when it comes to nge
No.13956
>>13949Ah. I liked the first 2 rebuilds decently enough, they didn't do too much stupid shit and pulled off some stuff, but it's the content after that pissed me off for being too inane to sit through.
No.14452
>>610I'd say 1-I dunno half way, before they ran out of budget and behind schedule were good. When it started being student film art school nonsense is when I started not feeling it.
Like literally they had to change the show half way through because they didn't have enough time or money to animate it anymore. Ok I looked it up. It was episode 16 where they ran out of time and money and started winging it.
No.16262
is this another butthurt "why shinji just doesn't fuck every girl" episode?
No.16263
>>16262He should have pounded at least Misato's mound
No.16340
>>16263That would make Misato a pedophile
No.18162
>>18140I choose to believe there is an alternate timeline where Gendo gets a good shave and chooses not to go forward with instrumentality.
This is cannon
No.18353
>>16340 It's the end of the world, I think that's the least of Misato's problems.
No.18354
There is a short 1980 soviet cartoon called "Returning" (rus. "Возвращение") A lot of the imagery is similar to that of Evangelion. Not really surprising since a lot of the old guard Japanese animators and cinematographers studied soviet cinema and animation.
More on it
https://daily.afisha.ru/news/67844-v-sovetskoy-rossii-eva-zalezaet-v-sindzi-na-reddit-nashli-proobraz-evangeliona-iz-sssr/ Link to the short
https://www.animatsiya.net/film.php?filmid=572 No.18370
Ever notice how they keep changing their minds on how redeemable Shinji is supposed to be every time they have to come up with an ending
>TV: look this kid just needs some therapy
>End of Evangelion: this sick little fuck barely learned everything and is a budding sex pest due to his trauma and emotional narcissism, look at that little fucker strangle his crush
>Rebuild: I'M GOING TO BECOME MY DAD'S THERAPIST BECAUSE I SPENT A WEEK IN A COOL COMMUNE
No.18375
>>16340is that better or worse than using psychically abused child soldiers as mechanisms to power giant warcrime machines in an interdimensional conflict against spacefaring gods
No.18418
>>18417It's probably only checked if some of the vitals look bad and they didnt seem very heavily staffed at that point.
No.18420
>>18418I prefer to think the long-haired dude saw it and just gave up right then and there
No.18460
>>590>This show was designed to be something different than what I wanted it to be, therefore it is badWhy are geeks like this
No.18485
>>18483The awkward moment i relate with nearly every fucking character in some way….damn my parents and acquaintances were and are shit
No.18497
absolute pleb thread
No.18504
>>18497no wonder you feel at home, eh?
No.18505
The last movie made me cry. Maybe it's because I've been waiting for 20 years to finally finish this shit.
No.18525
>the show gets better trust me
That’s not how this works
No.18526
>>18525It literally does. The last 2 episodes are basically a completely different show in which the catharsis and object of the episodes is dependent upon the traumatic events of the previous episodes. The show is not a giant robot anime. Not really. It’s a joke where the punchline is the last 2 episodes. It’s a joke only for mecha fans, but not funny to mecha fans. It was ‘touch grass’ 30 years ago. Its beautiful.
No.18527
>>18505The pacing and plotting almost completely fell apart after shinji leaves the cyber-ghibli commune but god damn somehow it managed stuck the landing in the last 30 minutes
If they had just unfucked that middle chunk it would have been perfect, but as it stands it's good, not perfect. It's a decent send-off for the characters and it was nice seeing the cast get a happy ending for once
No.18529
>>18526As I get older, the more and more I like the TV ending on its own merits divorced from the movie.
The lore was never all that important. It's all about these sad fuckers trying to find connection in a world that completely fucked them thanks to institutional and eldritch forces beyond their control. The ending yanks the rug out from under you and puts you in that frame of mind, and gives you, if not total closure, at least some kind of hope and light, which is what these characters really needed.
No.19223
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we_YVADIKRE What IS Evangelion, Technically (And How Did It Break Anime)?
The editing of the film & how NGE's is iconic.
No.19224
>>18417>not a single person notice Shinji jacking it?Are you sure they just didn't care?
No.19227
>>2223>One real cool thing is the contrast between the end of the world and angels blowing shit up, with sunny days and boring cicadas. Also maturity, contrasted with wanting to connect with others on a "real" level (which has been something that psychedelics have made me more aware of), and a whole host of psychological traumas we all have. Maturity seeming to include an effort to suppress traumas (rather than solve them and overcome them).
>As I'm more mature, I see this in adults all the time. Depends how empathic I'm being, there are times when other's traumas and insecurities are acutely apparent of whatever they're complaining or anxious about. I'm no exception, I'd say most of my adult life has been uncovering traumas and working through them. I have the suspicion a lot of people don't do this. Leftism has also made the trauma work easier. Are you saying that the popular impression of maturity is "stiff upper lip" which fucks with adults?
No.19228
>>591I take that as an insult.
Why do people look down on kiss having angst for kid charcters for having angst or trauma while sympathising adults for doing the same?
No.19348
>>19344Incel loses his mind, commits a sex crime, is caught in a war in a position of power he should not have, magical apocalypse girl decides to give him the power to decide what happens, he's already a broken shell of a human being so he decides to blow up the world but then changes his mind
No.19349
>>19228Settle down, newgene. It's just saying that as you get older, the adult cast's hangups become more relatable.
No.19350
>>19224I prefer to believe this now because it's the funnier option
No.19680
>>590>so maybe I'm just a contrarian.yea
No.19682
>>18417>How the fuck did not a single person notice Shinji jacking itIt's simple: you see, the writer wanted to put that scene into the movie…
No.19683
>>19682that owns actually
No.19686
>>19682Ehhh are you implying the scene came out of nowhere? Because it's a show about a teenager who wants to connect with others but can't after all
No.19689
>>19686No. I'm implying that the writer wanted to put that in the movie regardless of whether it creates plotholes or not just because.
No.19701
>>19689I hate the concept of plot holes because most of the time it's used by redditors nitpicking the most irrelevant bullshit like
>>18417.
No.19731
>>19701Media illiterate retards walk among us. Morons who were raised on Cinemasins to nitpick meaningless shit in ART, and thinking that prediction fagging is the best way to engage with a story.
No.19735
>>19731Or the retard just doesn't know that people don't watch CCTV cameras 24/7 all the time and that most of the time, that most of the footage is erased over, and that surveillance capitalism is about the appearance and simulacra of security and control as opposed to the actual possession of power.
No.19736
>>19701>redditors>nitpicking >irrelevant bullshitIt's just a shitpost lol, meant to intentionally provoke conversation. NTA BTW.
>>19735>people don't watch CCTV cameras 24/7True, but often CCTV in secure facilities have shifts to watch the screens.
No.19957
>>19735please dont user ableist language
No.20018
>>19747they should adapt that one manga about raising shinji. haven't read it yet but it would probably be better than the second half of the rebuilds
No.20021
>>19957 Ok redditor, back to reddit.
>>20018 Shinji Raising Project? I thought that was a hentai.
No.20032
>>20024I'm not the redditor guy. Sorry for calling u retarded.
No.20105
>>20021it's ecchi sol from what i've seen in the first chapter. i think it would be fun to see animated if only for the keks but i guess it's better to make gay melodrama with a nonsensical ending that doesn't have any charm and shits on the original message
No.20108
>>20024the real
r-word after all :3c
No.20126
>>20108is that political catgirls or something
No.20131
>>20127>We were on the frontpage of Newgrounds once in 2005Based.
No.20225
With friends :)
No.20226
The order is:
<original TV anime series
<End of Evangelion (movie sequel to the series / interquel to the very end of the series)
<Rebuild movies (remaking the whole story)
<<1.0
<<2.0
<<3.0
<<3.0 + 1.0
Whether it's worth watching the Rebuild movies is a whole other topic. They are meant to condense the events of the show (at first) before subtly and then extremely deviating from the original. If you watch the movies first they won't make as much sense because the contrast is part of what they were going for.
No.20227
>>20226Also, mistakenly watching Rebuild 1.0 first won't matter that much because it changes very little in the plot up to that point although you can already see pretty important differences in the characters that leads to the story deviating later.
No.20229
❤❤❤❤❤❤ i don't tr
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>>20225 ❤ i don't trust none of my friends, they're probably a
❤❤❤❤❤❤ ll feds in disguise, i'll never tell tem where i live!!!!!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
❤
>>20226 ❤ thank you f
❤
>>20227 ❤ or the respo
❤❤❤❤❤❤ nse that's rly
helpful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No.20230
op the type of guy to check the wikia article of a character before jacking off to them
No.20231
>>20229How do you know if someone is a fed? Asking for a friend
No.20233
>>20232Thank you for the help homie
No.20235
>>20234It's the American Psycho effect.
Eva is not exceptional when it comes to the awful fan service, it was ubiquitous at the time. The difference is it was originally meant to satirize the conventions of the genre. But many (most?) people missed the point that this was being portrayed as perverse and it found a large audience who liked that stuff for exactly the reasons the show was criticizing. And because it blew up with the international audience, a lot of the fans were not aware of the context it was meant to satirize and were unable to recognize it as that at all. So then it became a huge media phenomenon where the coomers drove most of the profit and the merchandising. And that's why the Rebuilds exist, because there was just too much money to be made not to do it.
Anno clearly is sick of it and intentionally made the Rebuilds in a way that would piss off the audience as much as possible (which kind of worked). The lesson is never try to satirize anything because people will get the opposite idea of what you intend and at worst you will become trapped pandering to the exact thing you hate indefinitely.
No.20241
hey look, it's an evangelion fred!!! sorry for having made another evangelion fred before noticing this one
>>590>I fucking hated it to be perfectly honest.stopped reading there
I'm on the first episode and this is already the best anime I've ever seen, and i've watched dora the explorer
No.20242
>>20241>sorry for having made another Is A-Ok comrade!
>this is already the best anime I've ever seen, and i've watched dora the explorer LMAO
No.20243
>>20235>um acshually Anno hates otaku culture and fanserviceDecades later and retards still spout this nonsense LMAO. Thinking Anno was trying to "criticize the sexualization of anime characters" is legit the most laughable opinion about Evangelion there is.
Do you believe Miyazaki said "anime was a mistake" too?
>I feel that otaku have already become common to all countries. Whether they are in Europe, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, or America, otaku really do not change. I think that's amazing. Even though I say critical things about otaku, I don't reject them. All I say is that we should take a step back and be self-conscious about these sorts of things. I think it's perfectly fine to be an otaku as long as you act with a certain self-awareness of what you're doing; self-conscious and cognizant of the current situation. I just don't think it's good to reach the point where you cut yourself off from society. I don't understand the greatness of society either, so I have no intention of going so far to call for people to give up otaku-like things and become more suited to society. All I think is that there are many other interesting things in the world, and we don't have to reject them.http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12024/2003-Kodansha-interviews-Hideaki-Anno/ No.20244
>>20243idk how much clearer you can get than having the main self-insert character have the "i'm so fucked up" moment tbh
No.20245
>>20235plssss tell me you dont think that scene was meant to be fanservice or even a critique of it and im reading this wrong
the whole narrative of the original evangelion is telling you that there isnt anything wrong with longing for affection and sexuality and the actual problem with shinji is his deep repression of his desires and feeling constantly ashamed about his insecurities
>coomersnvm youre one of those people
>>20244media literacy at an all time low holy shit
No.20246
>>20244>main self-insert characterYou're so fucking stupid.
No.20247
>>20245>the whole narrative of the original evangelion is telling you that there isnt anything wrong with longing for affection and sexuality and the actual problem with shinji is his deep repression of his desires and feeling constantly ashamed about his insecuritiesUh yeah and in the context of animu fighting robots that repression manifests as that fanservice for the male gaze. When you repress something it leaks out in inappropriate places and becomes fetishistic.
No.20250
>>20247uygha dont be a pseud over anime, stop pretending evangelion was making fun of the ewww things that piss you off. idk why you keep bringing up "fanservice" when sexuality fucking terrifies shinji and thats why he does stupid things like staring too much or trying to kiss asuka when shes sleeping
No.20251
>>20243>2003>ignoring allthe shit that came after>ignoring the message of the rebuildsLaughable
No.20252
❤❤❤❤❤❤
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>>20242 ❤
❤❤❤❤❤❤
omg someone laughed at my joke, this is the best day of my life!!!!!!!!!!!!
No.20254
>>20252That dog looks ugly
No.20255
>>20250>when sexuality fucking terrifies shinji and thats why he does stupid things like staring too much or trying to kiss asuka when shes sleepingyeah and that's also why certain people watch anime with the bouncing boobies and panty shots instead of talking to women lol. kinda like the show is supposed to be about something or some shit.
You are going "le media literacy is le dead" because somebody is finding nuance about "maybe don't be a fuckin creep" instead of mindlessly jerking off to cartoons.
No.20264
>>20255Who is exactly the target here? Normal people? Normal people aren't sex-obsessed. Otaku? The otaku don't care anyway, it goes over their head. Teenagers? Maybe, but it's certainly not adults.
So while it's certainly an aesop, it's not something that deep. It might be insightful to yougsters, but adults either already know that or don't care. That's the thing about critiquing otaku: if you're not otaku you don't really give a shit, it's like someone pointing at Trump and saying "ORANGE MAN BAD."
No.20267
>>20255youre stretching it too much to fit your worldview tbh
No.20268
>>20264>That's the thing about critiquing otakuthis is something else anno said from the link someone posted above
>However, I take offense when otaku are criticized by non-otaku. Stupid idiots, I think, [criticizing] though you don't understand anything (laughs). There are truly many people who don't seem to really understand. I know these things without being lectured to by these people. It's like, why now? But saying those things is still better. There are many who completely missed the mark. When people don't even try to understand speak about otaku as though they were far above them, I think: what stupid people. No.20273
>>20268Does that mean that he didn't intend to criticize otaku or that he hates both otaku and non-otaku?
No.20274
>>20255Those traits aren't unique to otaku, and because Shinji exhibits no actual otaku-defining characteristics, I think this is a bad reading. I think it's simply about depression, something Anno was struggling with at the time, and about being afraid and running from your problems. Shinji jacking off to Asuka isn't some critique of pornography or masturbation, he is just a coward who is only able to express his sexual desire when she's unconscious.
>>20273Neither. People still parrot the insane lie that anyone working on NGE had a "disdain for otaku", Anno was and still is a huge otaku himself. He had an Ultraman themed wedding, and Evangelion itself takes huge inspiration from Ultraman/Godzilla. These days he spends his days directing movies for otaku properties that he loves.
>>20248>that he was "making fun" of mecha like he wasnt a gundam and ideon stanThis is another big one. That Anno was ~deconstructing~ or ~subverting~ mecha or whatever the fuck. Ideon has a downer to metaphysical finale. I don't think anyone saying this watched any of the Gundam shows either.
No.20298
I've seen the same shit that happened to Eva happen to Danganronpa where the "fan"dom gets filled with le ironic weeb who hate themselves and project that onto the works spouting um acshually it's making fun of anime!!!!!! when anyone with half a brain and who has actually played the games would realize immediately Kodaka loves that shit, otherwise it wouldn't have references to other media.
No.20336
>>590the thing with old anime is that alot of the time explanations were bad or lacking or non existent so you just had to use your brain to fill out the blanks but you also go filtered hard but you will never read this post so who cares ? lol
No.20538
>>20536sounds like a you problem
No.20539
>>20538now it's your problem too because my throbbing, veiny opinion is penetrated so deep inside your voluptuous mind that you felt the need to insult me
No.20540
>>20539at least i dont get offended by "horny"
No.20541
>>20298>>20274You know you can like things and be critical of them at the same time right? And that people who really like something are going to be more aware of its issues than people who don't like it as much?
No.20545
>>20536The show isn't about vibes or giant robots. It's about awkward feels. You'll get it when you see the last 2 episodes.
No.20609
>>20607>i never understood what a "plotbrain" was or why people despised them so passionately Never heard of it until now.
I think you're juse engaging with terminally-online weirdos who're mad about weird things, and're trying to start a new term.
The term isn't on urban dictionary, nor know-your-meme.
It sounds more like a term to get angry at people who don't like shows with very little plots, like slice of lifes.
No.20610
>>20609Youre being intentionally dense. Its obviously about people who seriously use terms like "filler".
No.20618
>>20609It's the fundamental difference between entertainment and literature. To be obsessed with plot is to be obsessed with story, to love the feeling of the logic circuits in the brain turn off. Plot is a coping mechanism for those that want to avoid the human condition or any sort of theme that takes longer than "good thing is good". It's why science fiction and fantasy are generally regarded as 'genre fiction'.
No.20619
>>20607The thing is that it was, evangelion is about escapism, misato escapes her trauma from her interraction with the second impact through sex and alcohol. Just like shinji escapes his through being a shut in, or asuka with video games and being a bitch. People are so abjetively disgusted by depictions of sex they turn illiterate.
No.20640
>>20619I'm sick of all these fucking puritans ruining fiction.
No.20641
>>20640did you ever consider it might just be a joke?
No.20642
>>20610>Its obviously about people who seriously use terms like "filler".Are you unironically saying that filler is not a real thing?
No.20646
>>20641>I'm only pretending to be a puritan>>20642Filler is when the anime catches up to the manga so they have to stop the narrative in its tracks and make up some bullshit until there's enough manga to resume the main story again. This doesn't happen in Evangelion for obvious reason and you're still stuck in the idea that anything other than the protagonists dashing towards their goals isn't serving the show as a whole.
No.20647
>>590>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.Nah dude you're just media illiterate and have a shit attention span
No.20648
>>20646filler also happens when the showrunners have no good ideas but have to hit a certain number of episodes (preferably cheaply)
No.20741
>>20648Piccolo and Goku having to get their driver's licenses is a really fun idea.
No.20768
>>20646youtube essayists have done so much damage to media literacy, now everyone is some dumb utilitarian obsessed with plotholes and "advancing the plot"
No.20769
>>20646>This doesn't happen in Evangelion for obvious reasonWhere did I say it did? Evangelion has no filler. It just has proper pacing where sometimes things happen besides giant mecha fights. You gave a good definition of filler so idk why you were acting like using the word makes you a certain kind of person.
No.20773
>>20768Less youtube essayists and more youtube "critics". NTA btw.
>>20741 Agreed. Filler can be really fun or even be good worldbuilding, as long as you're not obsessed with "what next, next, next!" Although I suppose the hate for filler comes from the old days of TV-episodes where you'd be waiting for the continuation of the story that left off last week, only to get something else, which made people impatient.
No.21841
>>20607 >i never understood what a "plotbrain" was or why people despised them so passionately until i saw this image and it all clicked within a single second.What the fuck does this mean?
No.21849
>>20536It's been like 2 years since I've seen the show, so idk how bad it is– but those human moments is what allows the show to sell the dread.
It's also abit odd since what made me want to watch the show was the first fight's conclusion wasn't shown until part way of episode 2 – a massive declaration that the show was a mecha but was going a different route.
Having a issue with the fights taking a back seat – a fair problem – makes me wonder how you've gotten that far without being bored.
No.21956
>>20536>he's still on the first half of the showget ready anon, you're going to get what you asked for
and more No.21957
>>20536>A show that deliberately tackles loneliness, sexuality and relationships as its themes
<is hornyI agree that it could have been handled better but sex is a deliberate theme in evangelion. you signed up for this
No.21958
>>20298People forget that being in deliberate dialogue with your genre is not the same as making fun of it
No.21959
>>20274Evangelion is definitely in conversation with its forebears in the mecha genre, especially Mobile Suit Gundam, and Anno has openly stated that he's critical of certain aspects of otaku culture and that this is reflected in the final product.
That said, people do tend to take this too far and act like its pulling a Watchmen (it's not)
No.21960
>>20607People with plotbrain cannot process that a movie or TV show can be just as much about its vibes and themes as it is about the plot and that sometimes the best way to get across the emotions of a scene is for the camera and editing to just Descend Into The Vibes (TM)
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