NGE GENERAL
NEON GENESIS EVANGELION GENERAL
And wow, I fucking hated it to be perfectly honest. It seems like the entire show is only about Shinji's angst (and Rei increasingly I'm sure) and the characters various emotional issues, but like, okay, who cares? The situations they're thrown into are totally absurd and ridiculous so how can I take any of this drama stuff seriously?
Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? Shinji was gonna live in a totally empty tenement and it's only his superior's minor moment of reasonable judgement that means he lives with her instead (and she is clearly no kind of parent figure), and Rei lives in a dark, dingy slum dwelling made of all concrete with nobody taking care of her either?
Like, their emotional reactions seems somewhat understandable but also completely dull and uninteresting because the situation they're in is absurd (and even then they both come off as pathetic and unlikeable - and no you can't say 'but that's the point!!', that doesn't make it entertaining to watch).
The less said about the non-angst portions of the story the better, the 'fights' are 10 minutes of foreplay for like 60 seconds of action if that, and while that's a common problem with anime, that doesn't make it excusable.
Yes this series is old and I'm sure it has inspired so much but people still recommend to watch it and it just seemed like garbage. Almost nothing is explained which means I can't possibly feel invested in this absurd world in any way. Every part of the setting seems to have been created with 'style over substance' in mind, urgh, just overall I found it absurd. Try not to give too much spoilers because I guess I might still try watch it, but I really don't see it redeeming itself.
Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.
>>590> I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' Yeah that is just bout the summary of the "2Deep4U" problem
I'm not quite an EVA oldfag and I know the fandom can get caught up in the drama, but honestly all your complaints are just subjective dislikes rather than objective criticisms, which speaks more of your interests or lack thereof. You would like the Rebuilds more probably.
However, since you actually bothered watching the show before shit-talking it, I'll just suggest reading the posts in the waybackarchive of the old 8ch leftyweebpol Evangelion thread which explain they whys and hows pretty well.
Post 4005 in the thread is a good collection of the ideas of Evangelion.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190802125217/https://8ch.net/leftyweebpol/res/2054.htmlAlso if you don't mind, when /a/ becomes a real board, I (or perhaps another poster) will make an Evangelion thread.
>>592Every intrigue requires a setup. Six episodes out of twenty-six (plus a movie as a conclusion) isn't that much.
Not to mention the third central character (plus a central side-character) arrives only in the eight episode, only after which the greater plot starts to open up.
And boy, does it pick up its pace, reaching an astounding dash by the end of it all.
>>590>Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? It's not uncommon for Japanese students to be living by themselves since the principle of independence is pushed on to the people.
>their emotional reactions seems somewhat understandable but also completely dull and uninteresting because the situation they're in is absurdThe whole point of these type of reactions is to add realism to the show and make it more believable. It's a needed contrast for the mecha fights since they're inherently unreliable even considering how the viewer has to play along with the idea to start understanding the story.
>The 'fights' are 10 minutes of foreplay for like 60 seconds of action if that, and while that's a common problem with anime, that doesn't make it excusable.It's the beginning of the show, of course the fights will be short. The whole point is to demonstrate the dynamic of daily life and the fear of the angels. The fights do get to last longer, mostly towards the end and the movie.
>Almost nothing is explained which means I can't possibly feel invested in this absurd world in any wayLike what, the Angels and the Evas? Their believableness in the beginning is an irrelevance to why the viewer should be motivated to be invested into the show since the point of the show is to watch Shinji become a hero and his story on how that happened. They need to introduce the characters and their relationships first before getting into the main story.
>Though for context I also hated 'The Godfather' and 'No Country For Old Men' and thought they were pretentious overlong shit, so maybe I'm just a contrarian.Never saw Godfather so I can't say anything about it there but 'No Country For Old Man' I have seen and it seems to be the same thing with you. The enjoyment is the interaction the psychopath has with the world, a famous example being the shop scene and the first confrontation. It's a great film that's only long since the scenes are dragged on to add suspense, if you're not invested into the movie then the drag is annoying to watch.
I doubt you'll have any enjoyment if you do go back to Neon Genesis since the initial investment that show needs you don't have it so it won't get better. If you do, try to clear your mind of all the comments that have praised it and just go in with a blank mind since you seem to be overly worried of being a "contrarian".
>>608Its not about "teen angst" but a deconstruction of human emotion. Unlike Lain, which instead categorizes and explains psychological issues rather clinically, Evangelion instead poses questions and humanizes these depictions. The most famous of this is the "Hedgehog's Dilemma" where people want to interact but are afraid of getting hurt and do in fact get hurt by relationships.
Its not overhyped, though some of the fandom can be obnoxious, and it deserves its nostalgia because for the people of its time, it was a product that spoke to them. Today's audience is very different to those of the 1990s It was about to be the turn of the century, Existential crises were globally occurring from the former USSR, to the USA to Japan, whose economy crashed enormously. There is a lot to say but frankly I suggest reading the waybackd post referenced in
>>593 >>611not the anon of that post but
Eva 1-26 (EP21-24 Director's Cut)
Optional Death & Rebirth. Death is a recap of the series and rebirth is the first half of the EoE.
End of Evangelion movie is a must see. In my experience, people who didn't enjoy the anime generally enjoyed the movie more as it's tighter paced and action filled.
Optional Rebuild movies. These are the theater remakes of the original series, and there's three of them currently with a fourth coming soon. Personally, I consider the rebuild series to be inferior to the TV series.
The manga was released earlier than the debut episode of Eva back in 1994 in order to promote the anime. They were intended to be released together. However, the manga took over an additional twenty years to finish while roughly covering the same plot line as the anime. I think it's worth it for the Sadamoto's line work however.
>>611'That' anon here:
I suggest watching all the episodes and then EOE. The final 2 episodes are very trippy and thoughtful presenting a contrast to the starkn ending with EoE. I tend to headcanon that the endings mirror each other, with the latter being what goes on outside while the final 2 episodes being the inner thoughts of chrcters, mainly Shinji.
If you want more action you can watch the rebuilds, however only the first 2 films are good, the 3rd film made no fucking sense (which is hilarious for evangelion but true), and the 4th movie is still a trailer… a very insane and crazy trailer.
The manga inserts a lot of extra shit, for example the hinting of Shinji and Kaoru's kinship is turned into full-blown Yaoi-shit.
>>592Because most people don't find it to be a slog, or if they do they don't find it enough of a slog that the payoff doesn't justify it.
Honestly, I think the show overall kinda falls flat if you've never been a lonely 14 year old sad boy. I think that's the issue most people who don't vibe with the show are having, so that might be it.
But I have a friend who was in a similar situation to you. I tried for years to get this dude to watch the show but he couldn't get past the first several episodes. I was confident he would like it because I knew for a fact he had at one point been a sad 14 year old. Eventually he did watch it all the way through and has been obsessed with it for the least few months.
>>1726the mangaka is a dude and a major reifag and he still doubled down on kawarushinji, the entire point was for their relationship to have a heavy yaoi feeling from the beginning, it's why anno had a literal fag write the episode and told him to make it even gayer after the initial script
man I agree shinj wasnt full on lusting after a dude but to say they "just had kinship" is pure denialism and ur probably a closet fag
>>1936>the mangaka1) Reminder that manga came AFTER the anime.
2) A Fujo doesn't have to be a girl
>the entire point was for their relationship to have a heavy yaoi feeling from the beginning>Anno hired a literal fag and had him make it gayerSource?
>to say they "just had kinship" is pure denialism and ur probably a closet fagwrong.
>>1937Fujo is quite literally not the term for a male obsessed with bl pairings. The mangaka is also not one of these people. That is your insecure projection. The manga was also started before the anime but it is also it's own canon.
>Source?Why dont you do some basic research on a show your having hot takes about instead of living in a solipsistic bubble with pet theories not based in reality?
Excerpts from the first and one of the longest interviews after the airing of eva with the most popular yaoi magazine in japan:
https://evaresources.wordpress.com/staff/1997-june-anno/>wrongYour head canon is what is wrong. Pic related is the cover of the book the previously posted page comes from.
Face it. Your favorite sadboi anime has romantic gay shit in it.
>>1940>Why dont you do some basic research on a showConsidering that I've been an EVA-fag for roughly a decade I do plenty of research, however there is also so many interviews and media that it is quite easy to miss this stuff.
>your"You're"
>Fujo is quite literally not the term for a male obsessed with bl pairingsYes yes I know Fudan whatever.
>That is your insecure projectionYes, so insecure that I don't read Yaoi and actively avoid it in media
>The manga was also started before the anime but it is also it's own canon.Started being a keyword, the anime is far more important in many ways
>it's own canonWhich is my point.
>interviewDid you read this yourself? Anno contradicts himself
<I’d sort of stopped understanding Kaworu-kun, so I couldn’t discount the possibility that I’d made a mistake. He’s just an odd guy. *laughs* His image is a little different. Well, as a character, Ishida-kun’s voice was incredibly good, so I wondered whether the stuff that I’d simply thought up on my own wasn’t a little insufficient.
So h literally admits to not being the one with yaoi intent, and just having the thees thrown in because he didn't know how else to flesh out the character.
>face itYeah you've just proven that there IS gayshit in the manga which isn't what I denied. I denied that the dialogue and actual depiction in the anime were outright homosexual. The cover page you posted is for the MANGA, which has quite a few differences in interactions.
>>1943kek I recognize your smoothbrain posting style now
>anno contradicts himself so it's my special snowflake interpretation over established canonYeah I'm gonna go with word of god's literal description of kaworu as a homo love interest. Feel free to keep living in denial over your own and this anime's faggotry tho.
You could also try actually watching the show and paying attention this time :)>The cover page you posted is for the MANGA, which has quite a few differences in interactions.lmao
>>1954>anno contradicts himself so it's my special snowflake interpretation over established canonNice strawman faggot
>watch it and pay attentionI did fag
> word of god's literal description of kaworu as a homo love interest<Imma just ignore that word of god also states that he didn't know what to do with the characterization so he just had it thrown in for the lulz last minute
Yeah this is why word of god is considered unreliable, especially since Anno himself complained about budget cuts only to get debunked by the budget managers in other interviews.
TL;DR: no argument; read more smart alek and don't take things at face value.
>>593I was half-expecting my effortpost I made on leftypol to be there.
tl;dr, I got something very different when I saw it when I was young, than when I was older. And as another poster noted above, I understood more intimately the adult characters.
One real cool thing is the contrast between the end of the world and angels blowing shit up, with sunny days and boring cicadas. Also maturity, contrasted with wanting to connect with others on a "real" level (which has been something that psychedelics have made me more aware of), and a whole host of psychological traumas we all have. Maturity seeming to include an effort to suppress traumas (rather than solve them and overcome them).
As I'm more mature, I see this in adults all the time. Depends how empathic I'm being, there are times when other's traumas and insecurities are acutely apparent of whatever they're complaining or anxious about. I'm no exception, I'd say most of my adult life has been uncovering traumas and working through them. I have the suspicion a lot of people don't do this. Leftism has also made the trauma work easier.
Anyways, I'm rambling. The point is that EVA was an interesting series for me that touched on a lot of topics I care about. I think that at least makes it a good drama and a good sci fi series. It's not so much 2deep4you, many times it's just what you vibe with at the moment, sometimes EVA is not it.
>>2410It's not obvious, but his grief is symbolised the last moment in the film
when Shinji briefly chokes Asuka, but cannot bare to tighten his grip at all. He let's go, so to speak, all his baggage. And, all he is left to do is lay there. The ending is bittersweet.
I think Asuka's line at the end, "You're disgusting.," is two faced. She's a tsundere. Even though the content of her words are harsh, her tone is neutral. I think it would be read the line instead as "I need you."Watch at your accord, it's a spoiler.
https://youtu.be/pVeKyqV1jWU >>2501>>2565Thanks for your responses. I can only say there's many ways to interpret Evangelion. But I guess that's one of the things that makes the show attractive.
>>2565I don't think that one can describe Asuka as just being a tsundere. I think there's more to it.
>>1936>it's why anno had a literal fag write the episode and told him to make it even gayer after the initial scriptCan anno get more based?
Also, Eva is a hegelian series.
>>3696Rei. before she
dies her character progression and caring nature by the end show her to be a very good, if (like all of them) broken person. Asuka, is similar from a different end, but anyone who's actually had a girlfriend like her, knows that the amount of effort and problems caused is troublesome, unless you're a really chill person.
>>591>NGE gets betterlmao no
Don't waste your time OP. The characters only get more annoying, the plot only gets more absurd and the lore of everything is never explained properly. NGE is the pinnacle of psued bullshit and babbies first philosophy. If it were made today, people would be railing on it each week talking about how ridiculous the episode was or how annoying Asuka was. By all means stick it out to the end (by which I mean EoE, not just the end of the series) but you'll only get more annoyed
>>3722Oh look it's the unironic
"2Deep4Me so it's pseud-shit" poster. I wondered how long you'd take to post here.
>>2285Yes. The contrast of the end of the world with those moments of nothing happening.
I insist, this is the best series I have ever seen in my life. I think there is a lot of hegelian/freudean analysis to get out, which I haven't seen anybody write about.
>>2410The brilliant thing is that Shinji is the one that needs therapy the least.
>>2565I interpreted that as Asuka hating Shinji because he no longer hated Asuka enough. Asuka hates herself so much, that she hates Shinji for not hating her.
>>6111best girl definitely.
>>6114also this.
>>6121this is one of many placeholder symbolism I do not appreciate from NGE. Even after watching reboot I still don't appreciate how Kaworu is depicted. Like, why would you bioengineer a boytoy for confused teen having hard time with puberty? Shinji needed a dad not girl(boY) who is easier to talk to. If Kaworu slept with either Rei or Asuka it would have been
based AF
bonus point if shinji masturbates to the scene >>6123>Like, why would you bioengineer a boytoy for confused teen having hard time with puberty?Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants? A (boy)friend?
Shinji needed a dad, and never really had one, and wants the one that's basically right infront of him, that's exactly why getting him a new, different dad wouldn't have worked. You can look at Misato and Kaiji as examples of attempted replacement mother and father figures for Shinji and in both it doesn't work because there's a void there that can't quite be crossed, the mother-Mistato relation just gets diverted into sexual frustration with Asuka and the brief father-Kaiji relation falls short of Shinji's desire. In the end Kaworu was exactly what Shinji wanted, a christ-like father-brother figure who would love him unconditionally. Him sleeping with anyone else makes zero sense as well, that role is pretty much filled by Rei witnessing Gendo and Ritsuko, or Misato and Kaiji.
>>6127I feel you when I was younger I really liked Rei
But after a recent rewatch I felt more drawn to Misato I understand her much better now
christian_communismChristian Communism >>6128Yep. 100%.
My bf and I watched and discussed it a lot. It might sound cringe, but it felt like I understood more about adulthood, about myself, about others. It was a very profound experience.
I watched it when I was younger and it was a very profound experience as well, but for very different reasons. As
>>6124 says
>Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants?I cried watching it. It made me feel so so alone, and in many ways I was. Shinji was insufferable, but watching him was like watching myself be a pathetic cringelord IRL that was grappling with their own alone-ness. It made me confront parts of me back then.
Second time I saw it was 10+ years later and my focus was much more on Misato. I understood Shinji much better and saw him with less cringe, perhaps because I don't see myself in him as much.
The series end is so god damn cathartic. It's like coming down from a really good acid trip.
>>6131You know, the more I think about it, I guess properly critiquing NGE requires lgbtq perspective. I was too dense to realize that Shinji could have been suffering not only sexual frustration but confusion too. He is cringelord if I only focus on his refusal to accept adulthood but to think he could have been bi or gay teen going through puberty make things bit darker.
Did you see evangelion 3.0? What are your thoughts on ending sequence?
>>6132I haven't watched it. I'll watch it soon and report back.
I think more than sexual confusion is the desire for some larger than life individual to "swoop" you up and validate your existence. Growing up gay, my biggest frustration wasn't sex, but the capacity to desire freely. Kaworu is someone who is able to desire and love freely, unhindered by internalized homophobia and confusion. It also plays into one of the overarching themes about validation and lacanian self-alienation (eg the characters projecting better versions of themselves and constantly failing to fulfill these projected ideations). Kaworu is the ideal self of Shinji and becomes the object of desire of Shinji. And Kaworu accepts and validates Shinji's existence as is. He's the realization of seeking validation outside oneself.
As a gay teenager, coming to terms with being gay is extremely self-alienating. You're basically forced to identify with the foreign concept of being gay unto yourself, which causes neurosis, but Kaworu represents the overcoming of that neurosis too.
>>6166To put it simply, there's no "right" way. Wanna binge? Binge. Wanna watch one episode a day? Do that.
I can't pass judgement on the quality of specific subs or dubs tho.
That said, some episode may be quite good in terms of pace and action, while there are at least a couple of filler episodes, even though in reality there's always some development either in terms of characters or the background of the whole story. If anything, the first half of the series tend to offer more fast paced action when it comes to fights, while the second half has literal trips. Also, don't freak out if a lot of elements in the story don't get to a solution: this franchise is notorious for red herrings.
Watch the entire series, twentysix episodes, including the last two episodes, which are the trip of trips, then turn to the films, Death/Rebirth and End of Evangelion. The first is a quick retelling of the whole story plus the first part of the finale, but this time in a real world, action perspective. The second is the whole action finale.
Then, if you liked it or at least you had not actively disliked it, you can move to the more recent Rebuild films.
sandinistaSandinista >>6218There are alot of great anime out there but nothing gets close to NGE
I love gibli movies but even the best are only second place
>>6232Its kinda ironic NGE was made as a reaction to the great stagnation that started in Japan
Now after 40 years of stagnation it isnt even possible to produce smth like this again
>>6241I have only seen the movie and while I liked it, it wasn't Evangelion tier.
>>6240Very true. Anno's mental state declining as the series went on certainly contributed to the atmosphere of the show as well. It was lightning in a bottle, really. That just makes it all the more special.
allendeAllende >>6246>it wasn't Evangelion tier.God Tier
Top Tier
Bottom Tier
Evangelion Tier
>>6247Eh. That's your opinion, it's not my problem. Also like
>>6248 said, why wait for 45 replies before saying this? This is an Evangelion thread lmao
allendeAllende >>6434Its the last one yes
I watched the other ones and they were ok but not great
>>6477Spoilers obv.
Shinji realizing his own flaws and commiting to overcoming them and then the hole cast coming together to gratulate hime for this just works for me it has some lightheatness to it like all of what happened was just part of his personal journey to overcoming his flaws and becoming a better man it also makes clear that between all the giant robots monsters and christian metaphors Evangelion was in its core about trauma
In comparison the ending of end of evangelion turns this around shinji isnt able to overcome himself Misato is dead he is choking Asuka who just pitys him
I cant prove that but for me this ending represents the personal failure Hideako who after all just couldnt do it you couldnt overcome himself
But I love the Asuka fight scene but the progress that is made there is also a bit lost when in the end she just lays there with shinji
>>6482I loved both for the same reasons. The incapacity to ever fully be trauma-less. Shinji chooses to not be part of the human instrumentality project because existing is better than not. He's fine with having all that pain as long as we get to exist. Then he wakes up and the first thing he does is try to choke Asuka lol. Pain and trauma are nasty as fuck, but the alternative is to be One. The contrast with Asuka not even struggling because he understood Shinji and saw him as pathetic instead of trying to win his approval all the time. It's both sides of the coin, our trauma, and other's trauma as we experience it.
In general I liked the idea that we are separate, and alienated from each other, but to become One was untenable too. We will always try to become One, and our failure to do so will cause trauma. So, trauma is the contradiction of individuals and the One.
>>6484I agrre there is some worth to the alternative ending
Creating a direct opposite ending is still a bit weird to me
>>8483Hmmm,
If Anno hates his fans what would Anno think of the people who think that Eva is overrated garbage, though?
Why is there always at least one massive Evangelion thread on /a/ with the same debates and posts as always? I just remembered that.
>>8479Well, I find that ironic cat meme to be more incomprehensible than Eva, if I'm being honest.
I might be remembering things wrong, it's been years since I watched it.
At the end of the original series (in the finale movie), during the Third Impact, all of humanity turns into a liquid that's called "LCL", a state in which they're supposed to be happy because people's insecurities are eradicated since everyone complements each other as they have now become one. Because of how it played out, all the people that turned into LCL have the choice to regain their human/physical body at the cost of having flaws and potentially hurting each other as separate entities again.>>6328???
Is this just some kind of IP cash grab like star wars
>>8513tbh i dont quite understand what anno is doing with NGE there are like 20 different endings now
Does he need to money
Does he want to make everyone happy
>>8513100% yes.
>>8514It's called greed.
>>8498>that spoilerbruh who the fuck made this show
holy shit what the hell does it all mean
i kinda get it why people talk about it still now
>>8517IIRC
AT fields are a metaphor for the divisions that people put between themselves and others for various reasons, for good or ill. They're what enable humans to maintain their individuality. The instrumentality project dissolves the human AT fields, in which all humanity merges into one collective consciousness. By eliminating the AT field and merging humanity, the pain created by division is supposedly eliminated as humanity achieves perfect understanding of its constituent parts.
Shinji balks at this in part because he's mortified by the ordeal of being known.
>>8483That fucking shithead creep who jacks it to a unconcious girl is gay?
I have seen this show talked about everywhere but I never knew that happened in the show
Anyways I googled the show and can't really find much of the "hate" the creator has for the fans and otaku but that might becase western news sources might not cover it as much
Whatever. I'm not really into the otaku shit and I don't really understand the point of making something you hate or watching something that you know is made by somebody who hates you but whatever
This fucking anime is too good damn layered with metaphors and deep irl lore too it seems. Not my tempo.
>>8519I am a narcissist. I would love to be known over and over and over again.
I want everybody to read my mind and fully become me and I want to be inside everyone.
I don't know any other sexual innuendoes to make of this.
>he ordeal of being knownSeriously tho, What does this phrase mean exactly
Like does it mean that everybody will know your entire lifes actions, dreams, fears?
Is this shinji character not accepting of who he is and what he has done
>>8543>That fucking shithead creep who jacks it to a unconcious girl is gay?It's very heavily implied, not explicitly stated but it's obvious that Shinji had feelings for Kaworu (at least in the original series), but still there are fans who completely deny it.
As for the masturbation scene, well, the cast is full of fucked up individuals.
>>8543Shinji's fucked up and can't deal with rejection. For him every opportunity to connect with someone is a new opportunity for someone to find out how rotten he is, and subsequently abandon him once they've gotten their use out of him.
Shinji being gay is debatable, but his time with Kaworu is some of the only time that he's actually happy, in part because Kaworu accepts Shinji unconditionally. Which of course makes it all the more traumatic for Shinji when he has to murder him.
>>8567HE FUCKING KILLS HIM?
i hate shinji
>>8573I don't know NGE at all
Everything I have known about it so far has been against my will
I like gag anime like Dr.Slump and Dragon Ball
Not mecha stuff
>>8571Bro, you're literally skipping the whole series and going straight to the ending spoilers. You lack all of the context.
Go and watch it, it's only 25 episodes. It starts slow and seems like any other mecha series until Asuka joins the cast (iirc). Then it becomes a wild ride.
>>8574Generally I'd agree, yeah, but it's a projection that Shinji's internalized. That's one of the reasons I really like ReTake, because Shinji has his epiphany and comes around to the idea that, hey, maybe
he isn't the fucked up one here.
>>6123>>6124>Cus that's exactly what every confused gay teen going through puberty wants<a boyfriendExcept that's not what Kaworu is or is meant to represent originally, it arrived because of Japan's obsession with Yaoi. Even Anno himself mentioned in an interview that he approved the Mangaka's Fudaka shit because he didn't know how else to flesh out his plot-device of a character.
Shinji isn't supposed to be gay or bi or any sexuality, because that's not the point at all. He's looking for love while simultaneously believing that he is not loved, because he doesn't think himself worthy of love and therefore affection - this is worsened by Misato struggling with her own grief, Rei being mindwiped and placed in her new body, Asuka going off the rails and all his friends being sent the fuck away.
And so at his lowest point, Shinji meets Kaworu, who with a constant smile and persistence continues to interact with him, his Angelic nature meaning that he disrupts human social customs because he is unaware of them. Then it turns out he is Tabris and Shinji is forced to fight him, and Shinji states
<"You betrayed me, like my FATHER" Unless we're reading Adam Kadomon fanfiction, Shinji wasn't sexually involved or in any way attracted to Gendo and the relationship between father and son differs to that between lovers, which would imply that Kaworu had become a support for Shinji, with something as vulgar as sexual attraction being irrelevant.
The inclusion of "sex" into the manga cheapened this, as did Kaworu's wanton killing of a kitten with the typical nihilist "it'll die anyway" garbage. It's not the gayness that is annoying, but how it translates the desperation of Shinji into a discount homolust tease doujin. While the anime doesn't fuck this up, the manga goes full retard with it, and subsequently we've had a consistent rise in KawoShin shipping garbage and associated cancer. Not that unironic Asuka-Rei fags are much better, but given Kaworu's character being pivoted on Shinji (from the audience's point of view), it devalue's his character into "muh gay bishounen uwu" tosh rather than being the rather beautiful symbolism he was.
TL;DR: It ain't about yaoi-shit or romantic crap but about desperation and it's search for a supporting love.
>>6342About 4 months late but don't watch that shit, it's trash.
>>8729>soyjacks all aroundHow unoriginal
>>8575The hell are you doing here then? Also goddamn get some better taste.
>>8748I haven't watched any of the Rebuilds so I don't have the patience to try to understand this chaotic collection of posts.
So Asuka
ends up with Kensuke and Shinji with Mari? What happened to
Kaworu and Rei and their fans?
>>8751>About 4 months late but don't watch that shit, it's trash. If it's fun or helps me understand fan reactions better, I will watch them. Not like I'll take them as canon over the original series.
>The hell are you doing here then? Also goddamn get some better taste.stfu f/a/ggot
>>8762Ok first two films were not as good as the original, but moslty followed the original series up until Zeruelstill tried to remain consistent with the themes, and did have their own good ideas, however now Angels are much easier to beat for no reason. There is also some hints about it being a continuation from EoE where everything starts over anew but with traces of the previous series (the Ocean is LCL for example). On top of that when facing Zeruel, Shinji is conscious and he causes 3rd impact by trying to pull Rei out, only to be stopped by Kaworu with yet another Spear and another Evangelion from the moon.
The scene where Shinji fights Zeruel for Rei is pretty good, btw.
However now we get to the real shit show of 3.0 and frankly I'd have an easier time listing what is not wrong with it, among which is the Kaworu and Shinji playing on the piano scene.
I suggest enjoying these video reviews, as they put things into words better than I can manage at 4AM.
DemolitionD series on Rebuilds
Part 1:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dwnvbPart 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEn6-vLYvFQPart 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sATCoI7Ozk4Pleeb and Weeb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtEVnhf0z8 As for 3.0+1.0, …I don't even know where to begin to describe the awfulness except to say that it's not even Evangelion at this point anymore. Oh I guess Mari - she's a time traveling 'friend' or sister of Yui Ikari and she basically becomes Shinji's girl at the end, because it was in fact her grand plan all along to bring Shinji happiness - yes the entire mess where she barely interacted with anyone and barely did anything outside of jobbing in her Eva, was part of a grand attempt to fix everything in some strange timeloop thing. It was essentially nonsense, and Anno tried to pretend that "The Curse of Evangelion" was an analogy for Evangelion plaguing everything he did or was, forcing him to repeatedly work on it to appease fans… and that 4.0 was him breaking away and being free… which was all nonsense of course.
Oh and the artstyle and animation is worse with it's reliance on CGI, pic 2 related.
>>8792Kek, no.
>>8756>Kaworu and ReiRei
wants to become a farmere and live in solitude and peace but without LCL her body just falls apart. Kaworu reveals himself as
a being that exists in all timelinees or something like that, and that this whole thing has been going on over and over and over again and that Shinji needs to end the loop. While there is no KawoShin content, the fujos went full retard and have been spamming /a/ evangelion General threads with their garbage for months since the movies release.
>>8802>LCLdon't you mean AT field?
>no KawoShin contentI thought the movies were gayer than the series, or are you just talking about the latest ones?
Also what happened to the other couples?
>>8827>don't you mean AT field?Nope, LCL
<"Rei requires constant exposure to LCL and cannot maintain herself, decomposing in Shinji's presence." >are you just talking about the latest ones? The gayest moment in the series outside of the manga fuckery is Rebuild 3.0 where he and Shinji are constantly together, in 1.0 and 2.0 it's straight as an arrow for relationships.
I was referring specifically about 4.0 in
>>8802 where Kaworu is barely in it.
>what happened to the other couplesMisato apparently had a kid with Kaji but abandoned him at a farm with other survivors. Touji and Hikari got together and are adults, Kensuke is still alone, Asuka is actually a clone or something and is also alone, Shinji ends up with Mari after Gendo and yui sacrifice themselves during 5th impact to reverse infinity or something and basically create a world without Evangelion, a la The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki, where he meets Mari as adults and they walk off into the future.
Oh and Mari is apparently some friend of Yui's from some alternate past.
>>8867>Kensuke is still alonethank fuck
Thanks for the summary anon
>>8886>set up MariHah, yeah. But fuck the audience is Anno's motivation for Evangelion in the past decade. The creator of mari actually ahd to come out and claim the Mari timetravel bullshit was non-canon, because fans were so annoyed at how half-assed this trivia was, especially since the movie doesn't actually openly go into it and it's a manga extra that went along with the rebuild story.
>>8901 You're welcome.
>>9654Also watching TV series as new episodes are being released is a very different experience from binge-watching it.
Evangelion was designed to be released in episodes for TV with a specific schedule.
You thought Evangelion is finally over after 4.0?
You fools, the milk train is still going!!!
Train Anime Shinkalion Z Announces Evangelion Crossover Ya can't make this shit up!
https://archive.md/xgOcF>>10061It's not as incomprehensible as 3.0 but it is just as bad IMO. See posts
>>8748 >>8802>>8867>>9774TL;DR: it's inane and I Do (Not) Recommend 4.0 At All.
>>10082>saging your shitpost Coward. The video is shit, it's not even sarcastically parodic so it's gaping inaccuracies just prove that this ECeleb approached the series determined at disliking it before they even saw it. The fact that their entire argument is centred on a generic "muh depression" line that literally says nothing is just boring. The whining bout lore is also typical weeb bullshit, they always want lore explained (especially when lore is not important) but don't seem to realize the explaining the lore past a certain point in a non-adventure quest type story is retarded, nd moreover whenever lore is given it is either done inanely, kills the story or is hated by the fans because it "(over)explains the magic" (see rebuilds as a good example of all 3 happening).
So yeah that fucking review is pretentious as fuck.
>overrated Not really unless you're a speedreader/watcher, the show's content is pretty clear and just about everyone knows the context of its creation, going into it blind is impossible even if you read the synopsis.
>garbage Shit taste. Evangelion's animation, art style, characters and plot is all benchmark quality. You can nitpick details or dislike things but the actual content is objectively well made.
>>10085Eva is still hot Garbage, though. It's not really deep at all. Anno has always been a hack who can't write a interesting story at all. All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all.
Eva is basically babby's first exposure to elementary philosophy, and even then it really isn't that deep or even well done. All of the symbolism was simply done because the studio and Anno thought it was cool.
>>10091>saging again Are you actually this much of a salty faggot?
>Its garbage<no argument >it's boring <No argument Just making claims doesn't make them true. If you didn't find it interesting =/= it being bad you dumb fuck. I have utter disinterest in FMA but it's still a well animated show that has a consistent and intriguing plot.
>All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all. 1) That's literal bullshit and implies either psychosocial issues of your own or a childish black/white understanding of people
2) Characters not being likeable doesn't make them bad you dumb fuck. I loathe a character like Admiral Akainu from One Piece, but he's not a bad character
>Muh Anno <hack hack hackGood job discovering America bro, you've done it, Evangelion's hype is no more, here's a cookie! …Are you actually this lacking in self-awareness? Everyone in the fandom knows he's a hypocrite and that's fine, it has literally no negative impact on the story being told, among the reasons being because people often ARE hypocritical, FFS; we're contradictive beings.
>babby's first exposure to elementary philosophy No it really isn't you dullard. If I had a dollar for every retard who took
>we chose christian symbolism because it was foreign and mysteriousto mean
>literally every visual in the show is nonsense and irrelevantI would have enough money to pay Anno to make another shitty Eva movie. The symbolism got picked for its aesthetic, but it's integration required forethought and actually reflected a lot of actual Abrahamic ideas and concepts.
>it really isn't that deep or even well done Given that it's fairly straightforward, you're either legit too stupid or a ponce. It's not supposed to be people spitting out textbook definitions of psyche bullshit.
>Good basic summary of Evangelion The show is a massive exploration of the human psyche and more-over a realistic look at what it would be like to be a traumatized, motherless child who's forced to pilot a cyborg god-imitation to fight eldritch creatures ironically named angels, with the stakes being the end of humanity, while also being treated as a tool and dealing with their own personal issues.
A lot of great works are essentially 'fuck yous' due an artists frustration in the medium they work/live in.
Personally, I've never been a big fan of anime overall but I enjoy the series and a few others since what must have been just a few year after the turn of the century. I'm disgusted by the sexual objectification of the characters and I personally put little stock in the religious imagery, beyond that which progresses the story.
The thing to love about Neon Genesis Evangelion is the characters themselves. They are not role models, heroes, or even cool - far from it. They are flawed and at times intensely flawed. Look at protagonists in almost any great work, they are flawed to hell.
The study of these characters and their flaws is what makes the show interesting. Their actions can be great acts of kindness, humanity, and then suddenly do complete 180s, because they are changeable and human. There is nothing wrong with liking these characters. I personally don't associate with them in every way, I certainly don't heroize or sexualize them, hell I wouldn't want to be friends with some of them. But I am fascinated and drawn to them.
>Inb4 Serial Experiments Lain is betterThe show right from the first seven minutes establishes the subjectivity of the narrator, and the depersonalization of Lain between the wired, and the "real," and the shows finale ends off as a sublimation of the two into a greater understanding of the self, the perception of Lain in both worlds are no less real, and it does so through a cross-examination of the popular technology at the time, the internet. The show was largely based off post-structuralist thought from Deleuze.
This is all true and good, however Evangelion does its explorations well too. The difference here is that NGE is not there to make hard factual conclusions, but to trigger thought and consideration, and thus is abstract in many areas. The exploration of Asuka's trauma and her resulting behavior can be explained as a defensive mechanism in simple psychological terms, but this dry, scientific explanation bypasses the human element. Of the problem. Anno does not TELL us this or rather, as many anime, have Asua tell the audience by divulging this to some character, but rather we see it in her nightmares and her psychological episodes as she breaks down in the face of Shinji and Rei's growth, destabilizing her carefully built pedestal of superiority, created to hide her fears and sorrows created by her mentally ill mother.
The same goes for Rei and Shinji only from their own unique dillemas. The problem is that Anno was in the middle of depression and having his own deep thoughts, which, coupled with the enormous pressure on Gainax to make a hit, caused the entire staff to be on the edge of breaking down, and often going over the edge. This reflects on their work. But many of its viewers, were not under this pressure or did not relate to it and thus misinterpreted the results.
Rei and the Clone issue is well explored here:
https://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1998-January/009037.html https://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1998-January/009201.html >>10085>>10094I have to admit, Evangelion is the worst I've ever seen. It feels like someones sick joke. Compared to it even High school DxD feels like pinnacle of story telling and character development. You can't even put it in "it's so bad it's good" category. Almost everything about Evangelion is repulsive. It's bleak, cringy, filled with pseudo-psychological nonsense and senseless symbolism. It is prime example of a superficial anime with little to no substance. Characters are boring and obnoxious. Seele looks like a boogieman placeholder. NERV isn't a research center (I don't even know what it was suppose to be), it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs, and is run by sociopath with a god complex. Nothing is explained and everything means nothing. Who, when, why, how? Who cares, but lookie here, we have a bunch of squealing, squirming and agonizing kids just for your entertainment. And a cherry on the top is the ending, with two episodes of mental and verbal diarrhea with no meaning whatsoever. Just a white noise.
I've watched enough anime to understand that modern ones for the most part are as shallow as they come. They're just entertainment, way to kill time. Some of them offer something to think about, most of them don't. Some have interesting stories, most of them don't, but they have other things going for them. From time to time I seek out some old anime because they usually have some value in them, and most times this was true. Most of them were great, some of them were just "meh", but I never thought I'd dig up something this disgusting that I have to reevaluate my opinion on older stuff.
So, this is how I feel about Neon Genesis Evangelon. I hate everything about it, and that would include its creator. And I do realize that by hating it I acknowledge its significance. And that is true, it is significant, because not a lot of things leaves such strong and lasting impression on me, even if it's entirely negative.
>>10096>you only think it's deep because you heard so many other people on the internet say it is.I've been in the fandom since it began, piss off.
>link The link doesn't prove shit, it makes statements and then reaches a conclusion it already stated before the statements. Or rather the article makes correct statements and then concludes that these things making people dislike the show indicates that it's bad, and not that these dumbasses kept viewing a series clearly not aimed at being escapist fantasy.
>people generally indulge in fiction as a means to escape reality for 30 minutes to an hour This is the most pathetic reasoning I've seen, comparable to "cartoons for kids can be shit 'cause they're for kids". Just because capitalist reality drives people to escapism does not make escapism the end-all-be-all of fiction. Explain the escapism in a horror movie or a historical drama? Evangelion is, from the very beginning obviously not escapist in any form, it's literally a criticism of escapism, that's a central theme, demonstrated by Shinji's "I musn't run away" . You don't like it? GOOD, that's the point, that means it's getting under your skin and making you feel and think rather than take the animated equivalent of a morphine shot. Escapism makes the prole become a lumpen and so dulls their ability to work and self-improve, and to live life in reality.
>Summary of plot excessively focusing on the detail of DNA mixing, ignoring key aspects <it's confusing and dats bad That same logic means The Matrix is "confusing and bad"
Infantile take. Half the content listed in the summary are excessive details. Even then I read it and the plot is understandable: A boy having special ability is summoned to fight a looming kaiju threat in a near-apocalyptic world in a giant 'robot', he's unwilling to fight and a psychologically damaged person, but does so for the greater good, acquiring friends and other relationships as he goes along. But life is not easy the monsters are dangerous and the 'robot' is actually a cybernetic biological organism. But rather than defeating the monsters, the main point is the conspiracy to ascend to a higher plane of being using utterly alien biotechnology and Shinji struggles as he or rather his Evangelion Unit becomes the focal point of this conspirational plan that results in all life on earth being liquified and their souls merging together.
As a synposis of 26 episodes and a single film, it's strange, but fairly simplistic makes sense and the fact that people today lack the attention spans to follow the story is indicative of their inability to do so. The things that remain unclear or mysterious are purposeful, it's a vast crisscrossing network.
An example of this mystery and obfuscation being attempted to be cleared up is 1st Darling in the Franxx (a ripoff that adds in a little Gundam) and the Rebuilds. Both attempt to explain their lore and mysteries and it just comes off as inane because you only have a certain capacity of time to explain the intricacies of biology and socio-economics, and you're left having an overinflated story lacking space for plot to develop.
>is a wimp that matures naturally like any real teenager would. So essentially people (that complain about "muh Shonen protags" usually) also don't like characters that don't have plot armor and don't act like happy-go-lucky retards but like real people. Again that speaks not about Evangelion being shit, but about people having either shit-taste or just being too fucking lazy to look at a genre list and decide
"yeah I'm not into drama/tragedy/etc., I should look for something fun and exciting" TL;DR: The article states several key parts of the story and it's aim, these not being liked by escapist viewers does not make them objectively problematic. Not every piece of media must be tailor made for all audiences.
>>10096>you only think NGE is good because you heard other people say it on the internet>anyway here's a random guy's blog explaining why Eva is objectively shitAlso, that article only explains why so many people hate NGE, it never claims that NGE is "objectively bad", and its conclusion is that people hate the show because it's not for everyone/not the type of show most people expected.
And the author's right. If you didn't like it, that's ok, but it does not mean that it's a bad anime. It's actually amazing how you could share that article without understanding it, and who knows if you even read it because it quite clearly spells out why it was well executed and why people who hate Eva missed the point of the whole show.
Evangelion does not try to be a typical anime. It doesn't even try to be a typical story. It goes a completely different way than most people would expect from an anime, so it's not surprising that so many viewers get mad at it for not being what they wanted it to be, and in fact being nothing like they wanted. But there are as many people (or more) who love Evangelion for what it is as there are people who hate it for what it isn't.
It's not even "2deep4u", I'm quite sure that you would be able to get it easily if only you didn't see it as a failed typical anime and instead saw it as the unconventional kind of story it is. Or perhaps you already understand what it's about and what it does, but still hate it because you know it's something that makes you uncomfortable.
>>10091>All of the characters suck and have no redeeming qualities for any likable qualities at all. That's kind of the point and the characters being dislikeable (which isn't a universal opinion btw) does
not mean that they're bad characters in any objective way, especially for the kind of story that Evangelion is. They are perfect for the story they're in.
>All of the symbolism was simply done because the studio and Anno thought it was cool.The religious symbolism, which was done for style, is not the point and it's not meant to be deep or important. Neither that nor the lore are the point of the story.
>>10097>filled with pseudo-psychological nonsense Could you at least point out specific examples of that?
>>10097>Compared to it even High school DxDThese stories literally have nothing in common. DxD is fun and silly and is basically combining a Shonen protagonist and a semi-Isekai harem ecchi, having some deeper themes tossed in for plot and character development.
Evangelion is a essentially a mecha anime that satirizes many tropes in the genre and acts as a medium to express existential thoughts of the people creating it (despite popular misconception Anno did not create all of it or all of its ideas).
>It's bleak Yes that's the point
>Cringey How? You mean Shinji or what? I'm fairly sure that Shnji being "cringe" is the point, that's a introverted teen for you, not a moeized "cutie" but a rather annoying wimp. Do you refer to Asuka? Again, a traumatized girl trying to be mature and ending up just being obvious about her insecurities.
>Senseless Symbolism Yeah I already said this once before, just because Anno said ONCE in an interview that he picked a design aesthetic because of the looks, doesn't mean the symbolism itself is meaningless and that's obvious to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention, I'll cover an example in another post so I don't text-wall too much. Heck I literally talked about this in the post you reply to.
>Pseudo-psychology <Pseudo Yeah that's a hard no from me. It's not COMPLEX psychology, and its not meant to be, it is however correct and covers ideas of Id, Ego, Super-Ego and other psychological concepts accurately. It doesn't analyze them from a scientific aspect but from an psycho-emotional one; that's the point of it. Serial Experiments Lain is the series that defines psychology more scientifically, because that's the point of THAT series. See
>>10095 >Characters are boring and obnoxious. Boring is your opinion, obnoxiousness of many characters is again intentional, Misato isn't supposed to be a role model of a stable person nor is Asuka or Rei or Shinji, that's the POINT FFS, to demonstrate people as they are, fundamentally broken, not heroized fantasy versions of them. The main characters are sympathetic but also off-putting on purpose.
>Seele looks like a boogieman placeholder.The fuck are you on about? SEELE is a cabal of rich people that run society, just like porky today, it doesn't need to be detailed because it's not extremely important to the plot. You sound like you spent too much time on /pol/.
>NERV isn't a research center Yes indeed it isn't a research center, that'd be Gehirn. NERV is stated to be
a special organization that was put together to combat the Angels after the Second Impact and is the organization responsible for the creation of the Evangelions. >it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs, and is run by sociopath with a god complex. yet another claim that essentially tells me you skimmed the series and learned most of this from memes and /a/'s statements.
>Nothing is explained Covered in
>>10098>everything means nothing Congratulations you reached one of the ideas of NGE that sometimes, in spite of all effort things end up being meaningless… except y'know the part that has Shinji reject Instrumentality and the idyllic illusion it represents and continue to live as an individual, because you should fight to survive and try to achieve something even if nothing is guaranteed.
>we have a bunch of squealing, squirming and agonizing kids just for your entertainment Imagine being this fucking disingenuous about the depiction of suffering in the series. They don't get tortured for kicks, they get injured doing a job that they shouldn't be doing, but have to, against eldritch monsters, getting hurt and traumatized is par for the course, do you think combat and conflict is supposed to be like a Superhero cartoon or something? No consequences at all?
>two episodes of mental and verbal diarrhea with no meaning whatsoever You're just literally just repeating memes made specifically to be disingenuous and ignoring the material realities of those episodes.
Your entire impression of Evangelion doesn't sound genuine at all, I'd try to reverse search your text to check for Copy-Pasta, but I can't be arsed to waste time scouring the internet for something that petty. Long story short not only are you just objectively wrong but to be honest your subjective opinions are boring and generic too because you're taking things too fucking seriously "I hate everything about it" congrats buddy you're literally r/whoooosh-ing this series because rather than just saying"meh I didn't like it" and moving on you admit to dedicating the time and energy to hating the series and demonstrate that you didn't even bring yourself to try and at least pay attention - in essence you viewed it just to be mad about it.
>>10097I'm
>>10099I forgot to add that none of the shit you mentioned about Eva (some of which is highly subjective and vague, like "cringy") means it's bad. Some of it is even intentional, like
>bleak>NERV isn't a research center (I don't even know what it was suppose to be), it's a certified mental institution filled with, in equal parts, of mindless puppets and megalomaniacs>run by sociopath with a god complex>Nothing is explained and everything means nothing >>10100>>10097Honestly rereading your rant, it sounds like you read an Adam Kadamon* fanfic, not NGE itself.
>Symbolism exampleHere are some I suppose:
Man's relation to the spiritual is discussed in the show, but this is an argument people have been having since before 4chan. Some Newfag shows up, says "EVA's imagery is literally pointless, here's a quote where Anno says crosses look cool," completely ignoring that the series is about alienation, the fetishization of child soldiers, and the behaviors man exhibits in an attempt to keep himself safe from harm. It's not a flat "hurr durr muh super robot deconstruction" or "*hits blunt* dude Jewish mysticism lmao"
The Angels design reflects biblical ideas of rather eldritch looking angels (literally floating eyes and rings or giant leviathanic creatures) and the concept of the Chamber of Guf and Geofront 'Egg' parallel Manichean Cosmological mythology quite closely, too closely to just be random aesthetic.
Also someone pointed out that angels are a world-known concept that even the Japanese would be fully aware of Anno's naming of the monsters in his show as Angels (with canonic biblical names no-less) as an obvious irony. Along with NERV's motto "God is in his heaven, all's right with the world" which contrasts to the underground nature (both literally and socially) of NERV.
The Eva Units are essentially bastardized copies of of Adam and Lilith just as devils are born of the flesh of Lilith, the estranged first wife of Adam and of Lucifer.
Rei is born of Lilith and Yui Ikari and in EoE Shinji and Unit 01 acquire a set of wings and after mulling things over after having connected to all humanity's souls, rejects Instrumentality, essentially playing the role of Lucifer by granting the idea of choice for people and also that of Jesus by essentially be crucified and reborn. This is done too coherently to just be random symbolism. Even DxD that you mention is not that haphazard.
This isn't to say all imagery is purposeful, the exploding crosses of their light weapons (that shaped the idea of modern anime Angel weapons) are definitely just for a cool factor and some of it is just half-baked ideas that Anno retained. But that doesn't discredit the rest of the show and Anno isn't the only guy making it, but merely the head of a large collective.
since linking articles is legit apparently:
https://archive.ph/OAzzL Religious imagery aside (as that is the least important of it) the imagery in symbols like hands position and gestures come up many times and indicate different meanings. Pic related is the most basic bitch and obvious examples. Before you say 'lotsa anime use hand motif' Evangelion specifically focuses on it repeatedly and often, almost all of them the Right Hand. 'Hand' most frequently represents the ownership, power, or control that its possessor (either an individual or a people) has. Shinji constantly forms and unforms a fist when he's nervous or angry because those are his hand actions when he's inside Unit 01. It's about the only place he ever feels comfortable and also no doubt provides an immense feeling of power (and also at some deep level is a connection to his mother). It seems to be something he does when he's particularly unsure or nervous. It even goes back to the religious ideas (though I doubt Anno knows this one)
>"The hand can represent the whole person, symbolizing the achievement of what is promised with the mouth ( 1 Kings 8:15 1 Kings 8:24 )." >"The hand of God, and especially the right hand, is also understood as a place of salvation, refuge, and protection (16:8)."And further more there is a scene in EoE where Rei's voice asks during Instrumentality, "Then what is your hand for?" during Shinji's internal debate and struggle.
*an example of his horrendous writing being taken part:
https://forum.evageeks.org/thread/9647/Fanfic-Firing-Squad-The-Second-Other/ >>10103>Video is just a massive meme comp of <muh religion is just for cool<it's just stuff for no reason <they only explain at the end and don't really explain <EoE doesn't make you understand uts happening As if the chaos of EoE isn't fucking intentional. And also, aside from the actual Third Impact mental debate EoE is fairly fucking simple, posting ECeleb videos is not an argument.
Also
<Muh Lore(someone literally said "people know the lore for what it is because of like 20 video games" ignoring that those are completely AU.
This is honestly so tiresome, because none of these videos are saying ANYTHING concrete, they're just making claims and either don't back them up or cherrypick scenes out of context.
Also the video literally says
>"it gets too much praise undeservedly" Fucking kek, the one thing that NGE fans have joked about and mocked for over a decade and is known to be of lesser importance to the story than many other things, is apparently getting to much praise… from who?!
A good comment talks about that "
People paying more attention to the Religious imagery than the Characters internal conflict is like missing the forest for the trees, the entire cast is a reflection of Anno's fractured psyche and the tumultuous times Japan was living through. Conveying such personal chaotic abstract emotions while leaving yourself completely in the open it's not easy or simple, it's meant to make the audience reflect and come up with their own conclusions., the thesis of the show is to stop seeking external validation and instead find your own self-worth, Shinji rejecting the Human Instrumentality Proyect is a metaphor for that."
On top of this, "
Evangelion is not about Theology or Religion, all of the Religious imagery and simbolism is an Aesthetic choice that adds to the Atmosphere and gives the show it a sense of mystery. In order to build the Lore of the series it borrows freely from pre-existing Terminology and Iconography, DC/Marvel do the same with Greek/Roman myth for Thor/Odin/ Loki/Hades/Hercules/Zeus., etc. … I want to add that all of these choices also double as an homage of sorts to older media like Mazinger, Devilman, Ultraman and many more, which not only inspired Evangelion but also made frequent use of similar kind of imagery."
>>11070In this gay & pointless OP
>people'd complain so its bad People today complain about anything I don't give a damn.
>plot making 0 coherent sense it made sense in parts, but the story is told in portions that intentionally deny the viewer from knowing the story because you're not supposed to understand the grand conspiracy because, as in reality, most cannot fully comprehend such a scheme and the methods or end-goal.
>Muh lore It's lore is coherent for the plot, anything else is unnecessary.
>bad CGI Fucking where? The only CGI used in Evangelion is in the Rebuild movies, the original is completely hand-animated
>another loner protagonists in a sea of loner stories designed to appeal to virgins in their 20s. If that's your interpretation you missed the point entirely. Also as you pointed out, it got made in the 90s, and its story and tropes hadn't been done to death at the time.
Honestly this just sounds like you looked at memes about Evangelion, and saw some clips from the rebuilds and made an opinion based on that. Git Gud.
>>11080>viewer has to do the writers work and imagine a coherently functioning plotline LMAO imagine making this shit up because you need to post your shitty gayjack. If writers put everything upfront there'd be no story. ach epsiode has coherent Beginning, Middle and End, and the plot of each episode has impact on later episodes, up until the end it's blatantly clear as to the plot - there is an eldritch threat and a limited method of combating it riding on the shouldrs of childrn that aren't cartoon heroes. Have you read a book or seen a film involving a conspiracy before? 'Cause the shit you're demanding exists only in garbage like Nolan's Tenet.
>humanity somehow developed mechs capable of sending nuclear scale attacks and capture Eldriche They didn't develop mechs they used cloning on biological organisms that they used cybernetics on.
>capture Eldritch GodsMore like their progenitors and using this alien technology they found. If you actually observe NERV operations you immediately see the complexity and infrastructure required to run the facilities, it's literally obvious as heck in the first goddamn episode.
>couldn’t build a rocket or base to get off earth when the third impact hit Are you retarded? The entire conspirational plan is specifically to induce 3rd impact but on humanity's - or rather SEELE's - terms and Gendo attempted to hijack the Human Instrumentality for his purposes of reacquiring Yui. It's outright stated, jackass.
Not to mention the fact that abandoning the earth to go where exactly? If the countless scenes of destruction didn't make it abundantly clear from the beginning, the 2nd Impact melted the polar ice caps and destabilized earth and society - wars, hunger, chaos and more - all as the preparation for the coming of the Angels, that are dictated by the predictions in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Sorry if your attention-span is too short for even the blatantly obvious.
>>11093nta but I always thought of the writer and animators more than I did the characters in the show specifically
Like, Jesus what was wrong with them? Their egos and minds must have been thoroughly shattered for it to devolve the way it did. There is a dialectical relationship here that I feel like you're missing out on.
>>11093>he story doesn’t have any sense But it does doyjakfag
>Muh marvuuuul Burger spotted,
>>>/hobby/ is the place for your capeshittery.
>ignore every time a major plot hole forms Name a specific plothole in the original series, no rebuilds.
>>11095>hose characters are unlikeableSee
>>10100 >bad worldbuilding in NGE Fucking how? Explain yourself anon. And no bringing up the movies is not an argument.
>every time the story builds up to a major arc or change because so many plot holes are apparent Explain; what plotholes are you on about.
>at the end where the constant reminders of technologies as simple as fucking rockets or hell even storage for sperm and eggs easily blow away any emotional impact the viewer may have for the story Are you actually retarded or did you miss the entire "the planet suffered the equivalent of a meteor impact and rapid climate change flooding cities and creating an eternal summer? Did you miss the Rei clones and the reasons it's fucked up? How the fuck do rockets solve anything? It's not like they created the Evangelion for kicks.
If you're not going to bother making a coherent argument and just spam meme-tier shitposts that are outright incorrect, then I can only assume you're either a troll or just stupid. Unironically 2Deep4U.
>>11097 Cumbrain… but ironically less of a faggot than OP.
>>11098Sure I can make a plot hole
Like wtf is the point in building easily destroyable mechs when you have the technology to build advanced ai integrated weapons system like the ones we literally see in the first fucking episodes
Or what’s the point in killing all of humanity when your not even gonna get rid of sperm and egg storages
Or why the fuck NERV is exclusively centred in Japan and the rest of the planet seemingly does nothing about the fact that there are Eldritch gods and aliens blowing up cities every fucking day
And I can just keep on and on with this obnoxious shit
>>11101>wtf is the point in building easily destroyable mechsDid you do LSD during the runtime? They're not built, they're cloned cyborgs using ALIEN technology. Moreover they're facing creatures that clearly are demonstrated to be immune to everything including nukes from the first 5 minutes of the first episode. The EVA regenerate and can neutralize AT fields. **not to mention their key role in the 3rd Impact.
>what’s the point in killing all of humanity when your not even gonna get rid of sperm and egg storages Are you autistic? You're one of those retards that gets an anal itch over Skynet not using mass chemical gassing and bio-weapons against humanity because you can't look past an artistic admission. Moreover they're not killing humanity, they're pulling a Grey Goo and merging humanity's consciousness into a single mass of LCL, so that people lose their ATF barriers - and so individuality - and never have to suffer or feel pain again, an ideal that essentially eliminates the very things that make us humans, and the key part of the last episodes is Shinji - a boy that has every reason to embrace Human Instrumentality - ruminating and thinking about his feelings and coming to the conclusion that it is better to suffer but also have the capacity to feel real joy and happiness and so live as an individual.
>why the fuck NERV is exclusively centered in Japan Yeah you really are retarded
1) NERV is stated repeatedly to have American, German and other branches that are also key.
2) Tokyo-3 is located in the giant cavern containing the body of Lilith and is a giant alien space 'seed' called the Black Moon. All of this is stated in the series, the alien origins of it are expanded upon outside the series because they have little impact on the story.
>I can just keep on and on with this obnoxious shitNone of these are plot holes and it's only obnoxious because you're a speedreading faggot.
>>11102>maybe that's the intention Pretty much.
The study of these characters and their flaws is what makes the show interesting. Their actions can be great acts of kindness, humanity, and then suddenly do complete 180s, because they are changeable and human. There is nothing wrong with liking these characters. I personally don't associate with them in every way, I certainly don't heroize or sexualize them, hell I wouldn't want to be friends with some of them. But I am fascinated and drawn to them. >>10095>>11094 Anno and his collective had been depressed and the economic crisis that Japan plunged into is a partial influence - Anno's Godzilla displays the bureaucracy of Japan's ineffectual gobirment and Evangelion also reflects this.
>>11122checked
>>11123 Nice stuff, thanks!
>>3699>unstable bitches I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot dick >but I do have a thing for fiery girlsKek
>>4733>reminds me of my momOedipus is that you? Jokes aside, I'm glad this thread didn't have the "muh BPD" shitposters. That are inevitable on current leftypol.
>>3700Best taste.
>>11393People constantly point to the Crucified christ and muh cross images but miss the subtle ones like pic related,.
this thread has some discussion that goes over the subtle yet strong message carried across
https://archive.ph/8AF9e >>11659it is brilliant
after all this time shinji becomes the God of the multiverse and creates this world that we physically live in - anno speaking against being an otaku yet shinji is literally the axis by which all existence revolves, yet he is also a God which negates his own condition, like Jesus sacrificing himself for the sake of humanity. We are the resurrection of the redemption of sin, in maturity, in love, in romance.
the visuals are perfect
the music is stellar as per usual
i even had a mini mental breakdown after
it is exactly what it could only be.
>>11830She’s also annoying as shit and every second she’s on screen feels agonizing
>>11831Wtf
>>11825>deliberately dislikeable characters are supposed to be viewed as either antagonists or beaten down by the writers for comic relief and satisfaction for the viewer, not viewed as actual people Is this how you think of unlikeable people in real life? lol
Also nice, trying to revive the board with bait.
>>11833
> NGE isn’t a masterpiece it’s a pretty generic mecha series with above average animationI enjoyed it tbh
Still, why does everyone keep saying it's a masterpiece?
>>11893>There is no contradiction there Nobody said there is
>you'll never touch a real woman anyway Guess again fag.
>>11948>Shinjis character kept resetting every episode last episode 6No, realistic character progression isn't like a video game save, you can regress according to the situation; Not to mention that Shinji's character "regression" occurs after Episode 8 and mostly due to repeated traumas in each episode.
>Asuka was effectively useless the entire story Incorrect, she served as a representation of a different psychological issue than Shinji and also did plenty as an EVA unit, in terms of practical effectiveness, she remained superior to Shinji.
> extremely annoying making watching her die make me and a fuck ton of people who watched it apathetic No I think it's only you and a couple others, given the sheer number of Asuka-fags.
>the manga The manga changes and inserts things that did not occur in the original series, mostly to its detriment.
>3rd impact shouldn’t have even happened to begin with It'd happen regardless of Shinji, Shinji simply became the focal point due to the prior circumstances.
>shinji was allowed to actually develop as a character or instead of being constantly set artificially back Except he didn't get artificially set back, he got smacked down in his life again and again pushing him to give up and be apathetic.
>hideaki admits staying as orange juice for the characters is a personal decision That doesn't make it pointless
>should’ve been with Toji Why?
>>12284Exactly, anon, you finally get it.
Also thanks for reminding me of the existence of what's-his-name, he's a qt 3.1416.
>>12284the original evangelion is GOAT in spite of its flaws, as visual storytelling and as a character study it's got the juice
the rebuilds are what happens when you write yourself into a corner during a project you stopped wanting to do halfway through
>>12330Takehito Koyasu is fucking everywhere (pic related) so it's not that surprising.
>>12332Maya too (the girl who was in love with Ritsuko)
>>8767Thank you for this post, I did read it the day you posted it but forgot to reply.
From what I've seen so far on the internet it looks like the Rebuilds are basically Evangelion but as a shitty mecha anime played straight. Am I wrong?
>>590>It seems like the entire show is only about Shinji's angst (and Rei increasingly I'm sure) and the characters various emotional issues, but like, okay, who cares? The situations they're thrown into are totally absurd and ridiculous so how can I take any of this drama stuff seriously?
>Like these kids are the last best hope of mankind and they seem to be totally unsupported by anyone? Shinji was gonna live in a totally empty tenement and it's only his superior's minor moment of reasonable judgement that means he lives with her instead (and she is clearly no kind of parent figure), and Rei lives in a dark, dingy slum dwelling made of all concrete with nobody taking care of her either?You missed the point entirely. Shinji is the only one who has his shit together despite having to fight with angels and his dad being an asshole and a weirdo. Rei, devoid of everything is only able to be midly functional because she is devoid of everything.
The series is about everyone else.
Shinji's angst is a foil to everyone else's angst.
>>12393>shinji is the only one who has his shit togetherehhhh
really depends on which take on shinji we're talking about, like
>TV Shinji: flawed but pretty much the most normal person in the cast>End of Eva shinji: has seen and been through so much shit that he has regressed into becoming basically a school shooter>manga shinji: sarcastic little shitgoblin>rebuild shinji: just sorta there >>12393Pretty sure the show was about not running away from one’s problems
Anno himself even added about living up to expectations to the point where the joke get in the robot shinji references that idea of actually not running away when problems come up
>>12391Might be a good idea actually, though if someone does make it it should be an effortpost of an OP, and not just someone dicking around. A la the Animator thread or other high effort OPs like ANIMETA and Anime Recc thread.
>>12396>rebuild shinji: just sorta thereNah Rebuild Shinji is essentially the shinji that "mans the fuck up" and "takes action" as the critics of his character want him to do and in doing so demonstrates how Gung-ho attitude fucks shit up most of the time (a.k.a the lesson the original TV series taught using Asuka).
>>12453nothin wrong with that
maybe if shinji masturbated more the world wouldn't have ended
Here’s my list of problems with rebuilds
- pointless and bad cgi. It’s shocking to me how overused cgi is in all the movies, ending of evangelion had cgi but it wasn’t constant only in instances where handrawing animation was literally impossible with the tech available. Rebuilds use cgi IN EXCESS. It’s to the point where ordinary backgrounds get flustered up with play dough looking 3D models fucking everywhere when it would unironically be easier to use cels or 2d sprites to make moving backgrounds that actually organic. And that’s just for backgrounds as for animation oh boy skip all the mecha fights because the entire animation department despite having a larger budget collectively gave up on actually planning how fights would be choreographed, how ideas of conflict and physics would be communicated and hand drawn in favour of just blasting generic anime music while having fucking maya models duke out on each other
- sound design is shit. Again the original evangelion although i didn’t like it had a level of believability in the sound of its elements that these movies just don’t. The Eva’s don’t sound like half organic half mechanical creatures whose sound travels at measurable scenes they sound like the shit you’d find in every generic anime fight in existence with endless screaming and the sounds of buildings being destroyed without buildings actually being destroyed.
- writing, I’ll ease off the creators for this one because rebuilds gave needed closure and development to characters that was needed in the original nge since anno kept resetting shinji as a character and forcing asuka on screen purely for fucking pedofanservice. Rebuilds still do this but to a lesser extent that’s tolerable.
> art design actually degraded. One thing I hated about NGE and I mean NGE specifically not EOE was the way things looked. Nothing about the Eva’s look conventional in combat, they’re too bright, they’re too easy to see from a distance, their structure isn’t conventional in real world or fictional combat, and the same could be said about the pilots. Nerv looks semi normal but shit like the blue haired bitch or missy or being purple haired and eyed for no reason or having asuka unfortunately be a fucking ginger all was unnecessary and makes the events in the series less believable and easy to take seriously especially when the classroom kids actually look like human beings. As for the angel designs they should’ve been drawn based off real world organisms because some of them look batshit ridiculous *ahem* diamond bitch. The rebuilds don’t fix the art design of this show they make it worse. Now in 3 + 1 you have random sci fi looking cargo out of batshit no where, pilots that are even more needlessly colourful and abstractly structured, ruins that are just covered in red since the background artists were too lazy to treat LCL as a fluid covering infrastructure and not literally being it, shittier uniforms that don’t fix the fact that they make teenagers look like their in spandex suits while the pointless vfx look like something out of one piece
That’s all I can say about rebuild bye
>>12535There’s a lot of retards in the Eva fandom
Personally i feel like anno himself is responsible for why that fandoms shit, the endless and pointless teenage nudity, shinji never really being allowed to evolve as a character until the entire fucking world gets destroyed, character designs that don’t match in the conditions the characters are in(don’t even get me started on the nonhuman hair colors of the main cast) this list keeps going. Evangelion doesn’t have to have a shit fandom it’s just a symptom of the shows writing and art design that that fandom attracts and produces such a degenerated audience
>>12536>pointless nudityIt's usually not in the original series IMO
>shinji never really being allowed to evolve as a characterHe does, his character progresses and regresses over the series in reaction to his interactions and traumas. He opens up but then gets shut down. He tries to be decisive and the results hurt him more often than not, making him regress into himself; this is one of the main themes of the series.
>the nonhuman hair colors of the main castLMAO
Rei is a fucking test-tube clone made from alien DNA and Shinji's mother's DNA, Ritsuko is a bottle-blonde and Misato's hair is a variant of raven-haired, having purplish coloration. Everyone else has standard brown hair and Kaworu (a literal alien) is obviously albino.
Asuka's red hair is not common, but can exist IRL and in the shade she has too
>character designs that don’t match in the conditions the characters are in???? They're fairly normal characters, they aren't starving (at least not in Tokyo-3) so their bodies are just fine.
>a symptom of the shows writing and art design that that fandom attracts and produces such a degenerated audienceYeah no, that's not really true, fandom cancer of this kind exists in every fucking fandom of popular anime and movies, Attack on Titan, Naruto, One Piece, Harry Potter, Marvel films, DC etc. The audience is no more or less degenerate than any other icon pop-culture show.
>>12557>NGE is just a wish-fulfilment harem isekai. It makes no sense that a scrawny 14-yo boy with no muscle mass has 5-or-so girls and 3 guys lusting over his cockHoly shit I don’t even like evangelion
I think it’s a terrible anime that tries to hard to be smart but even I’m gonna step in and say if thats what you got out of the show you either completely misinterpreted the media or your retarded
Asuka hates shinji, not in a baka shinji not masculine enough. I mean actually fucking despises him for justified reasons and for reasons expressed by the other characters of the show for being a pathetic faggot and entitled.
Rei straight up forgets his existence on multiple occasions because she only exists to follow gendos orders and has shown on repeated occasions to be discomforted by shinji and the rest of the characters in the show for honest reasons ranging from not being good at talking to people in general to literally not having a properly functioning nervous system since she’s a synthetic organism made out of cell tissue off a kid that was strangled to death by a roastie
>>12557>NGE is just a wish-fulfilment harem isekai. It makes no sense that a scrawny 14-yo boy with no muscle mass has 5-or-so girls and 3 guys lusting over his cock This has to be bait.
It initially
appears to be a """harem""" because it deconstructs a bunch of anime tropes that were common back then (and even today). Asuka, Rei and Misato are deconstructions of character archetypes that already existed in the 90s, that's why it looks like a """harem""" to you and why you believe that makes it """wish fulfillment""". Not to mention there's nothing "isekai" about it. Evangelion is anything but wish-fulfillment anime, even though it is a more realistic and fucked up take on those kinds of stories.
>harem anime>greatlmao
>>12559Shut up and calm down, edgelord.
>>12559Instead of telling me I'm not understanding the puddle that is EVA. I'm simply stating facts when I mention the 8 or so people over the duration over the show that mention his cock in one form or the other. Saying Asuka hates Shinji does not disprove this. Stating some obvious fact and implying I didn't know of it because I didn't mention it? Really? Do I need to mention every single goddamn obvious thing? Tarzan is a cannibal, probably ate his own shit, too. Wow so deep man, you just HAD to tell me that because it wasn't quite literally stated out in the show itself… what's that? Asuka literally said she hated Shinji? To his face even? Wow. That is quite literal. Good thing you mentioned it then.
>>12309814>it appears to be a harem but it's so deep it's only pretending to be>bait!If you assume my comment is bait, then don't bother replying. You've already vilified me in your head and you have not taken anything I've said at face value. You didn't deny what I said. It only shows your extremist view on a word that can be used to describe both extremes of the spectrum and much of whatnot in between.
>>12564>art means you have to watch a scene and be bored out of your mind because that's what art isArt is appreciation of a craft no? If a movie is not a movie but a boring conversation happening on telephone between short 5second long takes. Then it is simply a bad movie. I indeed do not care about calling something art that does not deserve it. Most art is crap. Should I appreciate it for being art? I'm sorry but why should I?
>go backSee. You do not care to engage in conversation. Why are you here then? I can play this game too. You didn't bother trying to understand me, you just assumed, gave it exactly 10 seconds of thought and then assumed your impression was the right one. Your getting hung up over me having standards that differ from yours… I care about movies enough. Pretensions can be found in all areas including movies. If you think playing a 3 minute long mexican song in its full extent is anything but filler, an ad, poor movie making, then feel free to explain why this exact scene is doing something for you. But to me it's boring drivel and I'll be bored watching this performance for I've got standards and am not impressed by the average; specifically if it proclaims to be art. Art is not infallible.
>>12567also
>5 seconds is a long takeholy hell what is your attention span
>>12567Eva isn't that fucking deep nor does it pretend to be. Read the thread.
Actually it seems like most "critics" of Eva think it's either "shallow as fuck" or "trying to be 2deep4u". It's neither.
>>12630>he does understand it, he just doesn’t like itFucking
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>>12718NTA but… Have the knockers to reply to the actual post you reply to
>I call EVA part haremIt's a parody of typical harem situations but played realistically; there is no harem, there is no real harem gags, or rather the gags are depicted in a real manner; cringey or horrible.
The rest of your post is irrelevant rambling.
>>12761its been "selling out" since the 90s
but that is also another layer of it's postmodernity
ayanami and so on and so on
simulacrum
>>610I'd say 1-I dunno half way, before they ran out of budget and behind schedule were good. When it started being student film art school nonsense is when I started not feeling it.
Like literally they had to change the show half way through because they didn't have enough time or money to animate it anymore. Ok I looked it up. It was episode 16 where they ran out of time and money and started winging it.
>>18140I choose to believe there is an alternate timeline where Gendo gets a good shave and chooses not to go forward with instrumentality.
This is cannon
There is a short 1980 soviet cartoon called "Returning" (rus. "Возвращение") A lot of the imagery is similar to that of Evangelion. Not really surprising since a lot of the old guard Japanese animators and cinematographers studied soviet cinema and animation.
More on it
https://daily.afisha.ru/news/67844-v-sovetskoy-rossii-eva-zalezaet-v-sindzi-na-reddit-nashli-proobraz-evangeliona-iz-sssr/ Link to the short
https://www.animatsiya.net/film.php?filmid=572>>18505The pacing and plotting almost completely fell apart after shinji leaves the cyber-ghibli commune but god damn somehow it managed stuck the landing in the last 30 minutes
If they had just unfucked that middle chunk it would have been perfect, but as it stands it's good, not perfect. It's a decent send-off for the characters and it was nice seeing the cast get a happy ending for once
>>18526As I get older, the more and more I like the TV ending on its own merits divorced from the movie.
The lore was never all that important. It's all about these sad fuckers trying to find connection in a world that completely fucked them thanks to institutional and eldritch forces beyond their control. The ending yanks the rug out from under you and puts you in that frame of mind, and gives you, if not total closure, at least some kind of hope and light, which is what these characters really needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we_YVADIKRE What IS Evangelion, Technically (And How Did It Break Anime)?
The editing of the film & how NGE's is iconic.
>>591I take that as an insult.
Why do people look down on kiss having angst for kid charcters for having angst or trauma while sympathising adults for doing the same?
>>19689I hate the concept of plot holes because most of the time it's used by redditors nitpicking the most irrelevant bullshit like
>>18417.
>>19701>redditors>nitpicking >irrelevant bullshitIt's just a shitpost lol, meant to intentionally provoke conversation. NTA BTW.
>>19735>people don't watch CCTV cameras 24/7True, but often CCTV in secure facilities have shifts to watch the screens.
>>19957 Ok redditor, back to reddit.
>>20018 Shinji Raising Project? I thought that was a hentai.
>>20024the real
r-word after all :3c
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>>20225 ❤ i don't trust none of my friends, they're probably a
❤❤❤❤❤❤ ll feds in disguise, i'll never tell tem where i live!!!!!
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>>20226 ❤ thank you f
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>>20227 ❤ or the respo
❤❤❤❤❤❤ nse that's rly
helpful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>20234It's the American Psycho effect.
Eva is not exceptional when it comes to the awful fan service, it was ubiquitous at the time. The difference is it was originally meant to satirize the conventions of the genre. But many (most?) people missed the point that this was being portrayed as perverse and it found a large audience who liked that stuff for exactly the reasons the show was criticizing. And because it blew up with the international audience, a lot of the fans were not aware of the context it was meant to satirize and were unable to recognize it as that at all. So then it became a huge media phenomenon where the coomers drove most of the profit and the merchandising. And that's why the Rebuilds exist, because there was just too much money to be made not to do it.
Anno clearly is sick of it and intentionally made the Rebuilds in a way that would piss off the audience as much as possible (which kind of worked). The lesson is never try to satirize anything because people will get the opposite idea of what you intend and at worst you will become trapped pandering to the exact thing you hate indefinitely.
hey look, it's an evangelion fred!!! sorry for having made another evangelion fred before noticing this one
>>590>I fucking hated it to be perfectly honest.stopped reading there
I'm on the first episode and this is already the best anime I've ever seen, and i've watched dora the explorer
>>20241>sorry for having made another Is A-Ok comrade!
>this is already the best anime I've ever seen, and i've watched dora the explorer LMAO
>>20235>um acshually Anno hates otaku culture and fanserviceDecades later and retards still spout this nonsense LMAO. Thinking Anno was trying to "criticize the sexualization of anime characters" is legit the most laughable opinion about Evangelion there is.
Do you believe Miyazaki said "anime was a mistake" too?
>I feel that otaku have already become common to all countries. Whether they are in Europe, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, or America, otaku really do not change. I think that's amazing. Even though I say critical things about otaku, I don't reject them. All I say is that we should take a step back and be self-conscious about these sorts of things. I think it's perfectly fine to be an otaku as long as you act with a certain self-awareness of what you're doing; self-conscious and cognizant of the current situation. I just don't think it's good to reach the point where you cut yourself off from society. I don't understand the greatness of society either, so I have no intention of going so far to call for people to give up otaku-like things and become more suited to society. All I think is that there are many other interesting things in the world, and we don't have to reject them.http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12024/2003-Kodansha-interviews-Hideaki-Anno/ >>20235plssss tell me you dont think that scene was meant to be fanservice or even a critique of it and im reading this wrong
the whole narrative of the original evangelion is telling you that there isnt anything wrong with longing for affection and sexuality and the actual problem with shinji is his deep repression of his desires and feeling constantly ashamed about his insecurities
>coomersnvm youre one of those people
>>20244media literacy at an all time low holy shit
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omg someone laughed at my joke, this is the best day of my life!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>20250>when sexuality fucking terrifies shinji and thats why he does stupid things like staring too much or trying to kiss asuka when shes sleepingyeah and that's also why certain people watch anime with the bouncing boobies and panty shots instead of talking to women lol. kinda like the show is supposed to be about something or some shit.
You are going "le media literacy is le dead" because somebody is finding nuance about "maybe don't be a fuckin creep" instead of mindlessly jerking off to cartoons.
>>20255Who is exactly the target here? Normal people? Normal people aren't sex-obsessed. Otaku? The otaku don't care anyway, it goes over their head. Teenagers? Maybe, but it's certainly not adults.
So while it's certainly an aesop, it's not something that deep. It might be insightful to yougsters, but adults either already know that or don't care. That's the thing about critiquing otaku: if you're not otaku you don't really give a shit, it's like someone pointing at Trump and saying "ORANGE MAN BAD."
>>20255Those traits aren't unique to otaku, and because Shinji exhibits no actual otaku-defining characteristics, I think this is a bad reading. I think it's simply about depression, something Anno was struggling with at the time, and about being afraid and running from your problems. Shinji jacking off to Asuka isn't some critique of pornography or masturbation, he is just a coward who is only able to express his sexual desire when she's unconscious.
>>20273Neither. People still parrot the insane lie that anyone working on NGE had a "disdain for otaku", Anno was and still is a huge otaku himself. He had an Ultraman themed wedding, and Evangelion itself takes huge inspiration from Ultraman/Godzilla. These days he spends his days directing movies for otaku properties that he loves.
>>20248>that he was "making fun" of mecha like he wasnt a gundam and ideon stanThis is another big one. That Anno was ~deconstructing~ or ~subverting~ mecha or whatever the fuck. Ideon has a downer to metaphysical finale. I don't think anyone saying this watched any of the Gundam shows either.
>>20607>i never understood what a "plotbrain" was or why people despised them so passionately Never heard of it until now.
I think you're juse engaging with terminally-online weirdos who're mad about weird things, and're trying to start a new term.
The term isn't on urban dictionary, nor know-your-meme.
It sounds more like a term to get angry at people who don't like shows with very little plots, like slice of lifes.
>>20768Less youtube essayists and more youtube "critics". NTA btw.
>>20741 Agreed. Filler can be really fun or even be good worldbuilding, as long as you're not obsessed with "what next, next, next!" Although I suppose the hate for filler comes from the old days of TV-episodes where you'd be waiting for the continuation of the story that left off last week, only to get something else, which made people impatient.
>>20536It's been like 2 years since I've seen the show, so idk how bad it is– but those human moments is what allows the show to sell the dread.
It's also abit odd since what made me want to watch the show was the first fight's conclusion wasn't shown until part way of episode 2 – a massive declaration that the show was a mecha but was going a different route.
Having a issue with the fights taking a back seat – a fair problem – makes me wonder how you've gotten that far without being bored.
>>20274Evangelion is definitely in conversation with its forebears in the mecha genre, especially Mobile Suit Gundam, and Anno has openly stated that he's critical of certain aspects of otaku culture and that this is reflected in the final product.
That said, people do tend to take this too far and act like its pulling a Watchmen (it's not)
>>554415if its not self-evident to you then you get a bullet in your brain
>>25493yes that is why she is my pedo wife
>>554423>muh arguments>anarcho-nihilistyou could not matter less
>>25495i am kaji i am a pedophile too
Misato, obviously. Both a mature adult and at the same time a fun person. Breaking down her barriers and fears on committing to a serious relationship are the only problem, and a successful relationship can overcome such.
>>25477 LMAO no for Rits or Asuka. Rei's appeal is that she's subtle, yet genuine, idiot. She's not a wet blanket, she just doesn't know better, kinda comes with the territory of being a test-tube clone that is abused and socially isolated.
>>25486>and mentally ill, so shes still a groomerShe's a groomer in multiple ways, including her position of superiority too.
>and also ephebophilia is a meme distinction that doesn't matterIt doesn't change the fact that it's predatory, but the damage you get from a predator is different depending on what age you are to be fair. Conflating all those types of abuse doesn't serve to make people take ephebophila more seriously so much as it serves to downplay pedophilia proper as "taking advantage" of someone who's "too young" (i.e. statutory rape, traumatic enough in its own right) as opposed to hitting a child's early development with a wrecking ball. The entire discourse around the subject is way too focused on the psychology of the predators in general, often completely ignoring the impact on victims. Like these things aren't bad for some deolontological "wrongthink" reason; they're bad because they are devastating to the people affected by them. While there are apologists who try to downplay predatory behavior by using a less stigmatized word, the kneejerk response to conflate all these forms of abuse tends to go hand in hand with this broader paradigm of moralism that is only concerned with punishing "sin" and ends up downplaying the harm to victims, constituting its own form of pedo apologia.
>>25491>Being mentally ill just mean he needs a mentor-lover figure all the moreLeast rapey freudian
>>25501>Like these things aren't bad for some deolontological "wrongthink"To most people this absolutely is the reason though. There is no examination of morality, only blind internalisation of conventions.
>Least rapey freudianWhy would you assume I am freudian? You arent wrong, but I am curious of your reasoning.
>>25506Only in our modern society. Long ago he would be an adult.
Soon, people will be consodered children at 30.
>>25501>>25505>>25486I like how you guys like to talk about moraity being a spook but when it comes to youth sexuality, all of a sudden, its evil.
Ypu guys even advocae for infanticide.
>>25501tbh, most adolescent males would love to have a an older maternal figure for their first time.
Statutory rape would be if they were gaslit.
>>25502By having the female cast fit the visual and personality archetypes standard to anime, Anno was able to advance the theme shinji’s isolation to ALL women, while distracting the otaku fanbase with the broadest spectrum of their kinks. (Red/blue/purple/blonde or silent/abusive/cold/drunk or plugsuit/swimsuit/schoolgirl/scientist/rocker)
Thus the discussion of best girl is an ironic refusal of and disassociation from the intent of the show and its themes of isolation and the human condition in modernity.
>>25502>none of the female characters were into the mc.Misato tried to be a mother/older-sister but that clashed with her role as his commanding officer and the fact that she was seeking love (even as she fled commitment), hence her flirting with him and that Adult Kiss in EoE.
Rei II was attracted to Shinji as she began to discover her own humanity and actually want to have a relationship with Shinji.
Asuka also seemed to want a relationship with him because he was the only one who could truly understand the struggle of being a pilot, but her own insecurities got in the way.
And Shinji was attracted to all of them in some sense, but also feared being hurt.
All of this is various reflections of the Hedgehog's Dilemma and other interpersonal problems people have. See the Evangelion thread for more on this.
>>590 >>25594Kaworu isn't a girl and the "gay kaworu uwu" shit is actually terrible and one of the most unoriginal tropey fujo fantasies ever. I'm no AsuShin fan, but at least the idea that her and his relationship has romantic potential (abusive or not) makes sense given the themes of the story and her character. The same can be applies to Rei and Misato, they all make for believable, if imperfect possible romantic relationships because it fits the themes presented and the dynamics shown.
Kaworu doesn't fit this at all. Shinji compares his betrayal as being the same as the betrayal by his Father. If anything Kaworu's appearance in the anime (the real source material) lends itself to the idea of Kaworu being what Shinji needed in that moment, not romantic love, but the platonic love of a friend and comrade. This fits the themes in part because a major part of masculine insecurity is exposing your inner self to women. Rei is too out of touch to be of any help (and other factors), Asuka is abrasive and proud, and Misato is… complicated, but regarding all of them Shinji feels worthless due to his childhood trauma and abandonment, so even if they knew to speak the words to him, Shinji would be less accepting of hearing "you are worthy of affection" from them as opposed to a peer - Kaworu.
>>25603Bro the themes in Evangelion
are surface level. The characters literally discuss relationship dysfunction in the dialogue. You have to be asleep to miss it.
>>25603if the subtext is perceived as such, it has already failed, except for pseuds
but you have to make something up or else you watched 24 episodes of low quality nonsense made to launder money
>>25614Don't be a twit
>>25610 *Baddum Tsss*
>>25584Actually brain evelopment theory was found out to be misunderstood.
What happens is your brain slows down after 25.
But ok, if thats the case then people with metal disorders shouldnt have relationships with neurotypicals.
Alot of our society is centered around "safety" nowadays. The way we treat the youth like cripples because muh innocence, its no wonder why millennials think five years differemce in dating in the twenties is "pedophilia".
Soon, "brain development" may end at 35 instead of 25.
>>25633actually no I didnt, so you go fuck off.
oh wait. You cant fuck off because youre an imageboard user therefore you couldnt even get your fuck on.
So how could could you fuck off?
Maybe jack off?
>>256341) relative to
>>25624 I have almost verbatim seen
>brain evelopment theory was found out to be misunderstood Followed by talking of "societal coddling" as well as a false equivalency about mental disorders and "neurotypicals". Said post was deleted.
I will admit to the point that this idea of a 5 year difference being pedophilia between adult ages is asinine, but your take on innocence is inane. Also modern society's "safety" is all performative, because society has never been more open with perverse, violent and other content inappropriate for children.
>What happens is your brain slows down after 25 Brain development after 25 is due to the infantile nature of First World countries, and sub-sequentially, it takes people longer to "grow up" mentally than they should. The thing is that at 25 or so the body reaches full maturity and in an appropriately developing person, their brain should have reached maturity by that point as well with some lee-way on an individual basis. Obviously a person changes over their lifetime, that's inevitable, but it's not the same as formative development from child to adolescent to adult.
2) You are also an imageboard user by virtue of posting here, twat. Furthermore it's an anonymous forum, so if I'm getting my fuck on or not, is entirely beyond your knowledge.
Now if you're quite done being a whiny, pedantic pissant about obvious common terminology…
PS. It's notable that you utterly ignored the response in
>>25631 sincerely engaging your argument. I reckoned you wouldn't answer in good faith to begin with, which is why I didn't bother arguing with you initially and told you to fuck off. Thanks for proving the point.
>>25636society has had more perverse contemt for children back in the days of old compared to now.
Alot of our surreal GMOD videos like Skibidi Toilet which Millennials amd zoomers freak out about is very tame compared to horror movies and punk rock concert videos from yesteryear.
Also again, what happens after 25 is ypur bran slows down, it doesnt finish development.
Mental maturity isnt dependent on physiological maturity after prepubescence. Its the fault of parents, teachers, and other pedagogical figures for smothering the youth for the sake of vicariousness.
Look at the average age of initial autonomy im adulthood nowadays compared to seven decades ago.
People used to have jobs at 14 and could have a house and spouse with a baby on the way by 18-20.
Nowadays, at 22, youre "too young" for marriage, serious career, or any political/philosophical devotion.
Also, adolescence is now being extended in definition.
>>25636Also, I didnt need to respomd to
>>25631 because they described everything on point.
And you stop being a little petulant pissant.
>>25643>horror movies and punk rock concert videos from yesteryear.<comparing something for older teens and adults to a a "children's" cartoon made by youtuber "memers" eh? Are you retarded?
>People used to have jobs at 14 and could have a house and spouse with a baby on the way by 18-20. Nowadays, at 22, youre "too young" for marriage, serious career, or any political/philosophical devotion. LMAO where the fuck do you live? People in the USA that aren't richfags have at the very least, summer jobs starting at 15. I started working 11 hour shifts when I was 15.
I agree that there's immaturity, but not because of parents and teachers "smothering children" from harsh realities but precisely because children don't get discipline, letting them indulge in whatever they want without trying to be appropriate or educate. This is not the same thing as sanitizing everything as you seem to be implying.
> you stop being a little petulant pissant.<N-no U LOL
>>25652Again, everything youre saying is copium.
Society doesnt allow children as much "self indulgence" as you think.
They dont allow kids to have free range play, nor do they have vocational classes in school anymore.
Amd yes, parents do try to shut down worldly affairs from children.
Look at the amount of parenting articles online that go apeshit over kids watching any news or expressing cynical opinions.
Also, you think Skibidi Tpilet isnt child appropiate?
>>25652Also you wanna talk abput disvipline?
Kids had alot more "freedom" back in the old days.
You could literally bully someone half to death and it was shrugged off as "kids being kids."
You could go gallivant off to God knows where and expect to be back home for dinner.
>>25660It's not just that you could gallivant to God Knows Where, there was a place to gallivant TO.
There's basically nowhere for kids to exist that doesn't require money. Where are you going to hang out where you won't have the police called on you?
>>25664Exactly what I said.
>>25659>>25660 >Society doesnt allow children as much "self indulgence" as you think. Yes they do, I see it all the time and your examples are proving my point, rather than GIVING things for them to do, useful vocational skills, or encouraging them to spend time outside, they just have a complete hands off approach with anything good like such classes being prohibitively expensive.
>Look at the amount of parenting articles online that go apeshit over kids watching any news or expressing cynical opinions. <Look at this cherry picked example 1) parents today are constantly pulling their kids into political shit
2) those parents that do complain haven't actually done anything about it, such as restricting social media access for their teens. Honestly it would be an improvement.
>you wanna talk abput disvipline Talking like a /pol/faggot doesn't lend you credence
>Kids had alot more "freedom" back in the old days. Yes and no. Kids had freedom to LIVE, but were also required to be disciplined when necessary.
>You could literally bully someone half to death and it was shrugged off as "kids being kids." Again I don't know where you've been living but that hasn't changed. I know it because I've seen teachers literally brush off a kid being pegged in the back of the head with baseballs by their classmates during recess, until they were literally concussed. In Highschool I've seen kids do all sorts of horrid shit and you're more likely to see the victim suspended for retaliating against their bullies than seeing the bullies punished, because it's not about "ye olden days" it's about American society. Idiot
TL;DR:
>Y-you're coping! <starts repeating only semi-truthful twitter memes about kids today. Go back or just shut up and stop derailing.
>>25668And again, society bars kids from worldly affairs such as politics and work.
Kids are exposed to politics but theyre discouraged from participating as individuals.
social media in itself isnt the problem.
Again, the problem is that people are addicted to outrage.
Also, how are parents doing a hands off approach?
Parents are constantly putting tabs on ther kids.
Kids arent really allowed to have personal affairs independent of famiky or school anymore.
Academia is everything nowadays.
>>25662This. Childhood is just glorified slavery.
Ypure seen as aleech for not having a job yet adults will be indignant about a child working for their own bread.
Whats the point of children existing if they need money for fun yet theyre not allowed to work for it?
>>25675 (me)
Well, "should" is a relative term here because under socialism it is expected that the workers will have more leisure time but if you're an accelerationist and want to increase the contradictions of capitalism then I guess the road to more leisure time is paved with… child labor.
>>25675>>25676kids are exploited by the labor market indirectly.
Theyre treated as charity cases that need to be locled away from the real world.
Also capitalism doesmt wamt kids to work because it maintans the illusion of care free childhood to sell more knick knacks.
>>25679fair point.
But what Im saying is that kids should work, just not beyonf their abilities.
And Im glad you point out the absurdity of compulsory schooling.
Most of our education is centered around "social skills" and glorified brain games for 18-21 years of ones life.
>>25687See
>>25681 redditor scum.
>>25689>redditorWhats the differemce?
Imageboards are just as prudish/squeamish as Reddit. Only imageboards are even more obnoxious.
>>25691 >What's the difference<doesn't even deny itLMAO
>Imageboards are just as prudish/squeamish as Reddit Yeah-no. Go back to half-chan.
>>25690>Muh woman has to be a pure virgin! Incels like you need to touch grass. Also that's not what that even means, retard.
>>25693case in point.
Imageboards as usual have severe projection
>>25721 >This shoddy bait>using the Rebuild version OP is a faggot again.
>>25729No, you stupid incel. When shit hits the fan and Shinji is near catatonic, she wants to help him but the only way she knows to be close with someone in a way that is closer than simple friendship, is through sex because of her stunted experience in intimacy, which follows the overarching theme in Evangelion of the Hedgehog's Dilemma. Furthermore Shinji is in need of a different sort of connection, not that of romantic intimacy, but of family, but Misato doesn't know how to do that, having never truly experienced it herself.
Boiling it down to
>she goes out and gets sad that's she's only useful as a pussy provider. Is a disingenuously broad and vile smear.
>>25727 Possibly, but that's kinda the point, it never got to that point because originally Misato never intended it to, and only later fell back on it as a desperate measure, but at the wrong time. She was trying to appeal to something normal boys had - hormonal lust as a way of having fun and teasing. Funny part is that it could go that far. Shinji's reaction to her "Adult Kiss" was him finally coming out of catatonia, at least a little, and she's a central figure during his LCL mind-trip during Third Impact.
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