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 No.617[View All]

Discussion of the way that Animators are treated in the Anime industry. Firstly. why are animators treated like shit? Why don't they try forming unions? You're thoughts on this whole Animator Dormitory project? How can the West (I'm assuming that most of Bunkerchan is yankees and eurofags) help?
84 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.10235

File: 1632538522746.jpg (174.34 KB, 866x733, mangaka schedule.jpg)

>>619
I found some info on how much animators and artists working at Disney made, roughly $45-60 per hour, just for comparison. Although this isn't a huge amount for the West coast, it is many times more than their Japanese counterparts, and higher than even unionized roofers and constructors get. With the growing popularity of anime on the world stage and movies like Your Name grossing over $190M, we see animators, who are the backbone of this industry getting paid less than minimum wage. How do Japanese animation studios keep attracting young people to become animators and keep churning out great animations every year?
>Laura Price - Disney artist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6g3DJYdK9Y

Additionally Karoshi (pic related) is very prevalent in animation and manga. Even popular Mangaka like Eiichiro Oda nearly die from insane work schedules.
>Underpaid and Overworked: Being an Animator in Japan | ASIAN BOSS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvj-XnVKQI8
Another video on YT mentioned that animators made around $6 an hour while other sources also suggested that they made $1 per frame. While this seems a lot more than $500 per month mentioned in the first video, its still very little and having been to Japan I know its a very expensive country to live in.
>The Anime Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K_UfHnJ2jY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi
https://archive.ph/uvARN suicides of mangaka

According to this Vox article a big part of the problem stems from structural issues in the anime industry going back to the 1930s.
https://archive.is/OrcOH

 No.10269

File: 1632678918793-0.png (508.37 KB, 960x500, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1632678918793-1.png (1.6 MB, 1500x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

>>10170
The CG for Prince of Tennis looks good (the character kinda resembles a GenderBent Samsung-chan).
https://archive.ph/1jkcM

 No.10272

>>10235
not really surprising we end up with 4+ years of hiatus for certain series with those schedules,burn-out is a serious disability.
I think even monthly schedule are sometines stupid with ~40 pages by chapter,but weekly schedules are absolutely insane.

 No.10274

>>10272
>I think even monthly schedule are sometines stupid with ~40 pages by chapter,but weekly schedules are absolutely insane
Amen, Oda found a decent balance at 1 chapter per 2 weeks, but even then he takes month+ breaks after a certain time period to not fall ill.

 No.10299

>>10269
Wtf I had no idea there would be a Prince of Tennis CGI film. I gotta watch that anime already. Looks good.

 No.10387

File: 1632884854132.png (772.77 KB, 1440x660, ultraman-netflix.png)

>>10299
Yeah it does look good, and I've noticed that other than CBR almost nobody really does reporting on these upcoming anime movies and stuff.

Speaking of 3D projects that people are missing there is an Ultraman anime series going on a second season that basically nobody even seems to be aware of. >>10386

 No.10492

File: 1633317208238.jpg (105.85 KB, 413x356, 1605546865338.jpg)

The manga/anime industry is inherently anti-art because the creators are incentivised to milk the fuck out of their series untill no one cares about them anymore - even to a more extreme degree than the Hollywood franchises and TV shows. I'm sure you could find a good story in most mangas, the problem is that it's buried under the 95% unnecessary bullshit and it lacks the proper execution because it's created under a lack of time. The deadline driven nature of comics prevents them from entering a higher level of art.

>TL;DR:

Post is literally: Anime industry [read capitalism] leads to non-artistic products, as money > art for creators, just like any other mass media (movies, tv series, etc.) because pragmatism and greed over-rule artistic expression or actual effort in execution due to the time/budget constraints on artists.

 No.10561

>>10169
Speaking of 3D
Land of the Lustrous:
A somewhat unreal land inhabited by girl-coded humanoid crystals. We follow the misfortunes of the youngest and weakest of the bunch as she goes through a year of personal growth and transformation through interaction with her fellows and various invaders.

There's enough personality in the myriad crystal themed characters to keep you empathizing, and enough weirdness to the world to keep you trying to figure it all out. Comes together for a tight mix of high-concept far-out setting with low-concept focus on character development and interaction. It's 3D animation, but here it rather helps to give everything a more alien tinge.

 No.10655

>>10057
>Among the accusations is that the company owns 4chan
LMAO, that place really has gone from "anonymous hacker 4chan" to a mainstream part of capitalist social spheres.

 No.11243

File: 1635956876918.png (91.07 KB, 497x652, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3116
>>8885
On the topic of Crunchy Roll and exploitation of animators. It's a fairly uncontroversial opinion that High Guardian Spice is unoriginal trash >>11233
But more importantly it's a demonstration of Crunchy Roll clearly not using the money donated or paid by subscribers for their claimed purpose of giving animators direct sources of cash. As a reminder CR was a pirate anime site, that somehow managed to secure legal rights to stream anime officially. To do this they sold themselves as the site people could pay to support the actual producers of Anime. This resonated with the people and the new found customers gladly paid for the chance to support the producers of anime. CR straight up sucks as a streaming service. The flash player sucks, licensing issues if you're not in the US, and suberrors. Moreover people (normies mostly) subscribe to Crunchyroll to stream anime, so they have every right to complain if it diverts money that could be used for that goal in order to make a non-anime show that isn't even creative or properly made.

Shills for CR try to point at Netflix and fail: The reason people don't get too mad at Netflix is because at least at its core, Netflix is a good streaming service that offers and even FUNDS a lot of anime (LWA, Devilman Crybaby, etc). They use their subscription funds to make new series (not just anime) that can be hit or miss, but at least they're trying. Netflix isn't a niche stream service like Crunchyroll, it can make anything it wants because it streams anything it wants. Heck I don't even mind flash player but it's outdated and not supported by most browsers anymore. If you have to download a video to see it, might just torrent instead.

Hell it's not even an issue if they make a cartoon… as long as it's actually GOOD or creative like their first animated product Onyx Equinox. But when you market it in any way that isn't highlighting what you created and just congratulates it for having an all-female staff, it's just pandering and since the actual product sucks, it's exploitative virtue-signaling. It's elephants painting on a canvas. you market the elephant but the art is still crap, the elephant isn't to blame, it's the retards trying to make it into something it isn't. Women have written, drawn and worked on MASTERPIECES in every element of art and popular culture and have done so for centuries! so everytime you hold something up and say "see, see! look what women can do! women can do it too!" most people just roll their eyes and say "this probably sucks" because when something is damn good you dont NEED to try to use the artist to sell it. Frankenstein, Pride and Prejudice, Harry Potter, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Hurtlocker, American Psycho, Lost in Translation, Fullmetal Alchemist, Uncharted, , Inuyasha, and Magi. So some of the best or most popular movies, books, games and manga OF ALL TIME have been done by women featuring women! Agatha Christie is the the most prolifically sold writer to date.

 No.11268

>>11243
>High Guardian Spice is unoriginal trash
I disagree

 No.11420

>Why don't they try forming unions?
Animators are forming unions. Specifically Toei animators are unionized and so the company outsources lots of animation to the Philipines. Recently there was a debacle between Toei and its unionized workers to do with LGBT issues where the company was discriminating. In this instance it was a director but I think but animators have a union.
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/japan-union-alleges-power-harassment-lgbt-discrimination-against-toei-animation/
https://www.japan-press.co.jp/modules/news/index.php?id=9451

 No.13127

Is it just me or do mangaka and animators die of illnesses probably caused by overwork; Oda almost died, Miura and Yamaguchi got terminal diseases… honestly the fuck.

 No.13128

File: 1644558919668.jpg (759.57 KB, 720x1620, 1469021252668.jpg)

>>13127
its definitely not just you

 No.13138

>>13127
yes they do,most death are from stress related diseases,it should be pretty obvious to everyone.

 No.13881

File: 1648594012559.jpg (191.12 KB, 1080x987, jujutsu kaisen.jpg)

industry related so putting this here

 No.13882

>>13881
This is definitely related, thanks anon. And yeah Crunchyroll has totally sold old, corporation have monopolized another "independent venture" again. Also I can see people are STILL not getting paid shit huh? Jujutsu Kaisen is enormously popular (for good reason) and they can't pay their guys properly? That's some bullshit.

 No.13883

>>617
>Discussion of the way that Animators are treated in the Anime industry. Firstly. why are animators treated like shit?
Aren't you faggots always complaining about CG in anime and not enough frames?

 No.13884

>>13881
jesus these are starvation wages, given the tremendous amount of work that goes into dubbing an entire show

 No.13885

File: 1648602951698.jpg (146.6 KB, 1242x1456, Dub voice Naruto.jpg)

>>13883
Criticizing animation is not contradictory to support of animators, not to mention that animators have always had shit wages and hours, and lacked computer programs to do their animations on, and yet animations from the past tended to be much better and more heartfelt. Moreover criticism of poor animation is actually related to poor pay and hours, as animation studios are generally the ones being criticized as a whole - not just specific animators - in part due to their shitty payment and treatment of animators leading to poorer products.

>>13884
As a freelance VA that's trying to get into this area of work, yeah it's a ton of effort and depending on the order, very thankless. Ironically Seiyu's in Japan get a lot of money compared to anime dubbers.

 No.13887

>>13127
Japan seems to have a lot of promotion of overworks in general, but it might be more noticeable in a field like this that people pay attention to.

 No.13888

File: 1648605080936.png (142.23 KB, 1182x799, ClipboardImage.png)

>>13885
>Criticizing animation is not contradictory to support of animators, not to mention that animators have always had shit wages and hours, and lacked computer programs to do their animations on, and yet animations from the past tended to be much better and more heartfelt. Moreover criticism of poor animation is actually related to poor pay and hours, as animation studios are generally the ones being criticized as a whole - not just specific animators - in part due to their shitty payment and treatment of animators leading to poorer products.
Animation is exorbitantly time and labor intensive. You might as well start bitching about how the guys who assemble your iphones deserve a raise. You just have an emotional connection to your animu vs the chipboard in your iphone and so you can feel better for being emotionally attached to the products of exploitation.

 No.13889

File: 1648612940256.jpg (53.33 KB, 615x652, FC-oIZKWUAQN8n2.jpg)

>>13888
>pic
If you're implying that's (me) then I can safely tell you I don't have a single piece of anime "merch", unless old VHS tapes of Ghost in a Shell I got from a garage sale years ago count.
>Animation is exorbitantly time and labor intensive
No shit faggot. That doesn't mean you cannot analyze and criticize it, or that it shouldn't exist or whatever your insane rant is supposed to mean.
>ou might as well start bitching about how the guys who assemble your iphones deserve a raise.
Your analogy makes no sense you assmad moron.
>You just have an emotional connection to your animu
<feel better for being emotionally attached to the products of exploitation
The fuck are you on about.
1) There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, you cannot guarantee it unless you literally do every material step yourself.
2) It's not about attachment, I feel no attachment for a ton of anime, but I can still recognize if they have shit animation or not, because that's critique of an artform of culture. Advocating for fair wages is an economic and ethical question that is based on materialist analysis and is divorced in that sense of art except in regards to it materially 'pinching' culture, exploiting it and preventing it from developing and being maintained in quality.

Your nonsense is some kind of dogmatic gobbledygook.

 No.13891

>>13890
More to the point, what is the call to action of this thread? Are you all going to start boycotting studios that don't treat their animators well?

 No.13893

>>13890
NTA but we're on an anime board, so we discuss anime, the industry and its problems here. There's no need to talk about the exploited third worlders who make our phones because we already do that elsewhere and we're all aware of how capitalism fucks over all workers.
Also that poster probably hates the coomer pedoshit garbage that you're talking about.

 No.13899

>>13891
Isn't that pretty much all of them with the exception of maybe Kyoani? Like I'm pretty sure that even if any studio treats it's in-house animators decently, the fact they subcontract inbetween animation to Filipino slave work means that a part of the animation will always be "unethical", so to speak. I don't think anyone here lives in Japan in order to help agitating (which is also notoriously a terrible country to be a leftist, they just get the secret police on you for the tiniest shit).

I think the point of this thread is precisely to facilitate a discussion about the way animation is produced, in order to better understand it's problems, it's potential for change (if it has any), and just a general discussion about how anime gets to be made. When you think about it, animators should be profoundly radicalized by the experience of ungodly working conditions, and yet they don't. Why is that? A partial answer is, of course, that animation is a kind of work people are passionate about, so they are willing to put with a lot more bullshit than otherwise; it also means there is no shortage of shitty young animators willing to get paid sub-living wages just so that they can work in their beloved anime industry. So yeah, I don't have a call to action, but I do find the discussion interesting.

 No.13902

>>13893
I can't guarantee its a reply to me (13889) but yes I can confirm I loath any "coomer pedoshit garbage" that they're talking about

 No.13903

>>13891
never paid for anime,so I'm already on it.

 No.13904

>>13899
this is probably correct,but the key point is that those jobs are LESS alienating than the majority,they are payed like shit and work in terrible conditions,but they can tangibly feel their craft,making it self-exploitation on top of the peer pressure/regular exploitation.
this also applies to game devellopers/vfx artists etc,having unhealthy working habits is not unknown from the "artistic" type of people,so it's just exploiting that drive,and pressuring everybody who doesn't want to kill themselves working that all the work they're not doing is going to be put on someone else,so you feel responsible for the suffering of your "fellow workers" on top of it.

 No.13905

>>13904
Yeah, any industry that has "crunch" time is pretty much made up of people who are either extremely passionate about that they do or extremely precarious in their situation (or both, of course). This means that porkies can exploit the workers up to the very last drop of blood, which just creates awful meatgrinder work that leaves people broken or so burnt out it might as well be the same. Worst of all is that they generally are also very competitive jobs, as in workers tend to care a lot about their craft and thus "compete" with one another to see who can make the best stuff, which makes unionizing very hard.

 No.13918

>>3380
>all your games are belong to us
Perfect reference given the context

 No.13960

What I don't understand is they treat their animator like shit, but a metric fuck ton of anime somehow keep getting produced each year
It's really insane
>>13885
>Ironically Seiyu's in Japan get a lot of money compared to anime dubbers.
Word of advice stop being a weeb and hold off on doing anime dubs if you're an aspiring VA
Stick to western cartoons
They literally pay more for less amount of work and isn't filled with amateurs that are held back by trying to match the way japanese VAs act

 No.13964

>>13960
>stop being a weeb
I'm not, I didn't say I'm doing anime VA dubs, i'm in general trying to be a VA, lol.
>Stick to western cartoons
Got to get through the basics first, even being acquainted with veteran Voice Actors isn't going to pave an easy path.

 No.13965

>>13960
normalfaggots and shitty reading comprehension, my favorite duo

 No.13969

>>13965
Maybe try answering the question

 No.20749

File: 1692075022889.png (757.2 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)

Sort of on topic regarding animators, there's plenty of amateur animators on youtube like the following
https://www.youtube.com/@iBIJanime/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pC2-LvGDbY
https://www.youtube.com/@animatt_studio/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@AniVideoTV/videos
Who make efforts to create fan-scenarios and moments and the animation can be a bit choppy but its cool too. Unfortunately DMCA often cuts these people down because "muh copyright" bullshit over characters. Then there's assholes like Seth who nix an entire project because of disagreements instead of manning up and releasing a fight they promised and released teasers for.

 No.20942

File: 1692587937608.jpg (196.8 KB, 839x812, 1658891708768042.jpg)

>>4873
Animators are definitely abused in the industry as are mangaka but most VAs aren't exactly in great condition either and have to either play along with trends and political beliefs or be harassed. Japanese social media is just as cancerously toxic as Western liberals on twitter, it's just not as well known because they're separated spheres of interest. Pic rel is an example, as most of Japan has been supporting Ukraine as part of being a US lapdog, and anti-Russian sentiments have been on the rise ever since Abe tried to get Putin to give up the Kuril islands.

 No.20955

>>20942
>Don't Bully Me, Russia!

 No.20960

>>20942
As a big Sumipe fan, this made my blood boil. This news is clickbaity, but it's true that she basically had to stop using russian in her youtube show and other vids where she usually greeted fans with zdràstvujte.

 No.20976

>>20942
WHEN YOU OWN A RECORDING OF "THE RITE OF SPRING" YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY DRAFTED INTO Z GANG

IF YOU OWN THE GERGIEV ONE YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY PLACED IN DONBASS

 No.20977

>>11243
lol I remember some friends getting mad at me for pirating anime instead of using crunchyroll because "it supports the creators"

 No.21069

File: 1693705887153-0.png (209.62 KB, 800x1131, Fox 1.png)

File: 1693705887153-1.png (260.87 KB, 800x1131, fox 2.png)

File: 1693705887153-2.png (252.48 KB, 800x1131, fox 3.png)

File: 1693705887153-3.png (243.41 KB, 800x966, fox 4.png)

Not animator but mangaka
>all along, people thought the artist was a man
>turns out the author self-inserted as monsters because she had self-esteem issues
>publishers forced her to humanize her manga's heroines because they were "ugly"
>sales crashed as a result, and the manga was canceled
>author hasn't been heard of since
Fucking whitecollar 'suits. This could have been so good.
It reminds me of
A) the first 2 Grimm fics recced in the RWBY thread >>20710 (Where a Heart Once Was & My Abominable Monster Classmates Can't Be This Cute)
B) Rosario and Vampire
C) The one-shot manga made by Nagatoro's author A Tale of Being Eaten by a Man Eating Youkai >>10352

Honestly sounds like a cool premise and the idea that monster girls wouldn't sell well is fucking retarded given MGE, Monster Musume and other subsequent stories, not to mention Inuyasha.

 No.21073

File: 1693769580661.png (603.22 KB, 2042x1174, ClipboardImage.png)

>>20977
Everyone's favorite conglomerate Crunchyroll/Funimation is back at it again with not wanting to pay their VAs
>Do a bunch of advertising telling people "support the studios"
>Refuses to pay their employees
Animator fundraiser is a good place to start instead of paying CrunchyRoll when they don't even use their money correctly
https://gogetfunding.com/the-new-animator-dormitory-project-2021/

>A Message to the Fans of Mob Psycho 100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHYWLTrBVlk&ab_channel=KyleMcCarley

 No.21107

>>21069
what manga

 No.21119

>>21107
That's it, that's all of it. I think the creator is called Sanzo, the greentext is specifically about them and their short manga panels like those 4.

 No.21144

>>21119
>That's it, that's all of it.

Are you fucking kidding me

That's such a dope setup for a manga, and she's not making any more? I think her pixiv was last updated like 2019. That sucks. That's such fucking bullshit. Fuck this gay earth.

 No.21145

>>21144
Yeah, that's Japanese business-bullshit. She made a ton of other MONSTERgirl x boy manga shorts like this, some get really fucked up or are really wholesome, like Knight and Dragon.

 No.21784


 No.22227

>>20749
Forgot to list GMS animations They did a kick-ass Naruto and Sasuke vs Isshiki fight.
https://www.youtube.com/@GMSAnimations

 No.22228

File: 1699511463411.png (379.19 KB, 640x480, ClipboardImage.png)



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