>>2576362Personally, I don't want to die.
Like the one piece of leverage Ukraine actually had with NATO is not just access to the Black Sea but access right next door to Russian naval bases. However, they're proudly boasting about neutralising the Russian Black Sea fleet during this conflict, as though that didn't massively reduce their leverage with NATO in exchange for very little impact on the conflict itself.
>>2576351No declassified military plans for war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact envisions ending the world in a single day by firing all the nukes, they all start with the presumption of nuclear exchanges being limited (funnily enough to states that don't possess their own nukes) and the bulk of the fighting to still be conventional.
So the oh-fuck scenario is WW3 has potentially started, but it's cool because only Italy and Denmark got nuked and the Russians got bogged down fighting through an ocean of cannon fodder in Ukraine. The oh-fuck-YES! scenario is that happening but without Italy and Denmark getting nuked.
>>2576361>Ukraine gets its demographics and economy obliterated>this will not result in social upheavalPack it up, boys. Historical materialism has been cancelled.
>>2576365Strategic nukes sure. But whats stopping commanders from using tactical nukes?
>>2576366Have you heard of this country called Germany? Did you know that the half occupied by the western allies did not turn socialist?
>>2576367What do you mean? In Ukraine now?
>>2576357SBU has been neutered in this.
NABU is some joint CIA/MI6 outfit.
Their goals aren't clear, but they've been releasing Zaluzhny puff pieces in British state media for months.
>>2576370I'm still not really getting what your point is. If it's
>just nuke all the cannon fodderthen the issue is that all the cannon fodder will be stationed in places you'd ideally want to capture, again a bit like now when Ukraine refuses to retreat from its settlement-fortresses until they're reduced to rubble and then laughs at about
>nice ruins bro! Tactically worthless! >>2576371 (me)
Wait, did I get Lord Chudjak'd?
>>2576373You say nato is collecting manpower against russia. I am asking whats stopping russian commanders from using tactical nukes on invading attacking forces.
>>2576376..I've just told you.
Note to self: do not allow leftypol anons any position of military power. (We would all be charred skeletons)
>>2576375They've had months to murder the NABU squad since Zelensky found out what they were investigating, tho.
>>2576378But russia is on the defensive in this scenario? You are saying russia will not be the ones attacking. Whats stopping russia from using tactical nukes? What is the existential threat to russian state?
>>2576381Invasions can be defensive, like the one this thread covers, for example.
>>2576379You think one of the sides would begin MAD over russia using tactical nuke on frontline battlefield?
>>2576380"They haven't done it, yet" isn't proof they can't. Zelensky had personal guards with Nazi symbols for a reason. Literally the Praetorian Guard.
>>2576382Russia is not invading. It is restoring its own constifutional territorial integrity. According to their constitution.
>>2576344What are the poles going to do? They are going to sit and watch as Russia takes Ukraine, and along with it the military reputation of the West and the majority of the world’s wheat, and they are going to do nothing. Why?
Because though people like to say Ukraine is weak compared to EU states because they don’t have the most advanced western equipment, what they do have is the quantity of equipment and munitions to actually fight a prolonged war and experienced troops who can hold the line against Russian assaults. On the other hand, EU states lack artillery shells, they lack drone warfare capability, they lack troops experienced in modern warfare, all of their soldiers are green compared to the Russian and Ukrainian army rn. If they had to deal with 500 geran drones and dozens of missile strikes every night, thousands of infantry casualties a day from drones as they struggle to hold a wide frontline, and the expenditure of millions of drones and shells, they wouldn’t even last as long as Ukraine has.
>>2576382Okay. Still what is the point of nato collecting all the manpower of russian can use tactical nuke or threaten MAD?
>>2576386You see that you're trying to change the topic, right?
>>2576388I've already told you.
go play HOI4 for half an hour and calm down a little
>>2576389i am failing to see your logic of nato collecting manpower to attack russia when russia has nukes
>>2576392Well I'm sorry that you don't understand the logic, but it's not my logic, I haven't invented it.
>>2576373What russia is capturing that it doesnt see as its own territory constitutionally?
>>2576395Again, you're changing the topic from a military one to a political one.
>>2576384I'd consider the SBU-assassination concern legitimate if NABU were a bunch of renegade Ukro idealists dedicating their lives to muh law & order, but it's an Atlantic glowie entity that the Ukro nationalists have been whining about for years. If it weren't an Atlantic glowie entity, it would have bigger concerns than the SBU. The Brits and Americans would move to eliminate it too.
>>2576399That's the only thing keeping them alive
so far. If it becomes clear they're trying to force Ukraine into peace, it's over. You can't expect fanatics to act reasonably.
>>2576400The big tell for me is that when Zelensky tried to shut it down back in July (June?), calling it a Russian-aligned entity, the glowies in America and Europe and their media mouthpieces didn't play along. It would have been easy for them to Putinize the entity out of existence as they do with everything else. My read is that NABU does only what the Western glowies are happy with it doing.
This is merely an interimperialist brigandry. Even when kursk was invaded russian military response was measured. Because they knew they were under no existential threat. This is just a measured sporty duel with unspoken rules between imperialists. Because the cause of war is capitalism.
>>2576406It's inter-imperialist rivalry. The "healthy competition" has turned into devouring each other to keep strategic resources under a certain teams possession. Remember when Biden tried to divert natural gas supply from Russia to cargo ships crossing the Atlantic? Even the Europeans couldn't accept that level of extortion. They all hate each other now and are suspicious of each other.
Assuming this isn't some mop-up op to clean the reputations of Zelensky and Yermak, Zelensky made the high-risk gamble that if he "protected" all known corruption targets by solidifying their important roles, the Westoids would back off on the corruption probes and not want to disrupt the war effort. If the Westoids don't give two fucks and go ahead anyway, as it seems they could be doing, then Zelensky's position in doubling down on his associates becomes much more politically perilous.
these nafos and trots have convinced me. ukraine is doing great. they shouldn't concede anything and keep fighting until the end.
millions and billions and zillions and dillions must die (for lithium and western microchip production)
I think the most cringe thing to come out of this conflict is the fact that slacktivism is usually harmless (as harmless as inaction gets anyway) and people get to do the whole “raising a rebel fist” thing online while feeling like good people for raising awareness about Kony, but this time around they’re raising a rebellious fist while claiming on the behalf of Ukrainians that they’d rather be exterminated than submit and actively arguing with Ukrainians who disagree with that assertion.
Will the penny drop for them one day and understand that wasn’t a good thing to do, they’re not good people to have spent years convincing themselves and others that Ukraine will eat anything and ask for seconds? Handwaving every indication that the conflict is ruinous for Ukrainians because English-speaking-Ukrainian-military accounts online tell them Ukrainians are glad to fight they just need a bus ride to the recruitment centre?
I sometimes wonder if Russia was more like Venezuela, Syria or Palestine if the "both-sidists" and interimperialist-war types would support Russia. If it were actually weak and crumbling undedr sanctions and military pressure, officials and soldiers jumping ship, and bound to lose and to be balkanized by US and European militaries and oil and mining companies, like the brussels ghouls drooled in 2022. Then the radlib menace would see a another hopeless cause bound to martyrdom under boot of western imperialism, then they would support Russia. But it isn't doing that, because it has strength to fight back it makes things messy and therefore Russia is not pure or worth their support or impotent prayers and that makes it "interimperialist war".
Or maybe it's this "Russia shot first" fallacy. Where despite Ukraine being openly a nazi state and a death cult wrapped together. you can still say that the not just the people, but the political entity of Ukraine is somehow a victim in all of this by being attacked and therefore right in whatever it's cause is. You can't maybe openly support Ukraine, but you can still say that maybe they aren't that bad, and the people drumming up support for Ukraine in the west might be ok people.
>>2576427They 100% would. In fact, they
did, and why that Lithuanian piece of shit no longer posts here.
>>2576427ICP consider those interimperialist conflicts
>>2576427>I sometimes wonder if Russia was more like Venezuela, Syria or Palestine if the "both-sidists" and interimperialist-war types would support Russia.if Trump attacks Venezuela they'll be cheering because muh Russia/China ally, and muh not real communists. They want the US empire to reassert unipolarity, and for no one to meaningfully resist it unless they are a properly "communist" force, as defined by the both-sider communist purity test (which no force capable of meaningful resistance would ever pass).
If you're not le proper communist you could be supported but you have to not be an important ally of the improper not-communists (Russia/China) and also be weak and getting btfo (like Gaza). If you're strong and can fight the imperialists, you're an imperialist and should be opposed.
>>2576448No this is the general where we watch two imperialist powers kill each other because of the falling rate of profit.
>>2576449Those being the US and EU. Former cannibalising the latter.
>>2576449>kill each other Funny way of spelling workers
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