/US-Venezuela war/ #3>Third Heaven EditionPrevious Thread Archives#1
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>>2539692Thread in which we discuss the latest aggression-based-on-lies by the USA against a country which did not attack it.
Eyes on Honduras AND Venezuela now, boys. The election is coming and Trump is vocal that the Socialists are a threat.
TACO
>>2576793Thanks breader anon.
MASSIVE GUSANO VENEFACHO ANNIHILATION
>>2576857But do you think America has the balls to do it knowing a bad reaction from Europe or South Korea/Japan would absolutely rape their struggling economy?
>>2575915>nothing short of threatening nuclear war could meaningfully be done by these allies to directly prevent an invasion or airstrikes, so thats a weird ass comment.
>>We have given a sizeable amount of anti-ship (no nukes, rest assured) missiles to our allies business partners at Venezuela. You know the kind, those what have you worried about aircraft-carriers on the pacific. Anti air as well.>>There is also a few hundred of our personnel there for reasons other than to operate the equipment, as you well know with NATO missiles that fire from Ukraine. >>If you invade or if its otherwise made obvious that our investments or personnel are being threatened, we told *Venezuela* to launch those missiles at high value targets. As a deterrent, and a weapons test. Again, like Ukraine, all very legitimate and above board.>>Also, we are told that several opposition figures and the businessmen behind them, within Venezuela, have suffered very unfortunate accidents as of recent. It is a shame how dangerous this place is getting.>>Have fun on your second and last Vietnam>>Signed: China & Russia. >>2576891
Funny, because they seem to have cared about the black people on the other side of the world in Africa for a while during the invasion. Or have you not been paying attention?
>>2576883If there's any meaningful Russian and Chinese support (meaning anything more than UN votes and condemnation posts on Xitter) to Venezuela during the inevitable American invasion, I'll take back everything bad I've said about them and become BRICS strongest soldier.
>>2576913
Sure. You know when you come to a thread discussing these sorts of things its usually best to know what you're talking about before you say it.
>>2576851>but wouldn't Russia be more angry about a potential Venezuelan invasion or strikes by the USA?Putin won't do shit. He doesn't do shit even when the US strikes Russia.
>>2576859>a bad reaction from Europe or South Korea/Japan They're vassals. No such thing as a bad reaction. Japan apparently doesn't even care that it got nuked.
>>2576891
>Russia is too busy dropping ICBMs on themselves
Fake news. Plenty of genuine shit to ridicule Russia for.
>>2577010That "of course" gets me every time.
>>2577007>Japan apparently doesn't even care that it got nuked.That's random and irrelevant.
America is desperately attempting to keep these major industries on the side of the United States, but cracks are showing. South Korea for example had to be wooed back into American orbit because the desire to do more business with the Chinese is becoming overwhelming. These nations have the capacity to condemn Yankee action, like the Swedes did during the Vietnam War.
>>2576909Your pessimism is perfectly warranted, imo.
>>2577014>That's random and irrelevant.No it's not. A country that can forgive that can forgive anything.
>>2577023It is irrelevant. Many on the right would use a similar pointless argument for the German left forgiving the Soviet invasion.
>>2577027There'll be no condemnations from those countries. You'll see. It's not like they're watching the aggressive military build-up and just waiting for their chance to offer condemnations.
I don't think there's any evidence Maduro is a narco-trafficker. The CIA propped up narco trafficking mafias against left wing militias in latin america, so the idea of the chavistas in venezuela being a bunch of narco traffickers seems contrary to the history of the region. it reminds me of the fake claims made against saddam hussein before the 2003 iraq war. just because maduro isn't perfect doesn't mean he's pablo escobar
Trump Spoke by Phone Last Week With Maduro, Venezuela’s Leader
President Trump spoke by phone last week with Nicolás Maduro, the Venezuelan leader, and discussed a possible meeting between them, multiple people with knowledge of the matter said, even as the United States continues to threaten military action against Venezuela.
The conversation took place late in the week, two of the people said. It included a discussion about a possible meeting between the two men in the United States, according to the people with knowledge of the matter, who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly. There are no plans at the moment for such a meeting, one of the people said.
The phone call, which included Secretary of State Marco Rubio, came days before a State Department designation of Mr. Maduro as the leader of what the administration considers a foreign terrorist organization, the Cartel de los Soles, came into effect.
The United States has built up a substantial military presence in the Caribbean aimed at Venezuela. Administration officials have said their goal is to deter drug smuggling, but have also made clear that they want to see Mr. Maduro removed from power, possibly by force.
The New York Times reported in October that Mr. Maduro had offered the United States a significant stake in the country’s oil fields, along with a host of other opportunities for American companies, in an effort to defuse tensions. But Mr. Maduro sought to remain in power, and the U.S. officials cut off those discussions early last month.
A White House spokeswoman declined to comment on the call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Maduro. The Venezuelan government did not respond to a request for comment. Two people close to the Venezuelan government confirmed that a direct call between the two leaders had taken place. They did not want to be identified because they are not authorized to speak publicly.
What the call ultimately means for the administration’s approach to Mr. Maduro remains to be seen. Mr. Trump has a long history of engaging in dual tracks with adversaries, with discussions on one track and threats of force on the other. The Trump administration has been using missile strikes to bomb Venezuelan boats that U.S. officials say have been trafficking drugs.
Those strikes are part of a broader aggressive posture against Venezuela, where Mr. Maduro has remained in power after a 2024 election that the United States has called corrupt. The United States has sent an aircraft carrier group to the waters near Venezuela, sent Air Force bombers over the region, prepared covert action plans and made regular threats to use force.
On Thanksgiving evening, Mr. Trump, flanked by military leaders, said that the efforts to stop drug traffickers would move to land-based operations. “The land is easier, but that’s going to start very soon,” Mr. Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago.
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And on Friday, Mr. Trump posted on Truth Social about Saturday’s elections in Honduras, endorsing the National Party’s Nasry Asfura and describing two of his rivals as controlled by Mr. Maduro.
“Will Maduro and his Narcoterrorists take over another country like they have taken over Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela?” Mr. Trump wrote. “The man who is standing up for Democracy, and fighting against Maduro, is Tito Asfura, the Presidential Candidate of the National Party.”
The administration has examined a range of options for Venezuela, including seizing the country’s oil fields. Mr. Rubio, a leader of the efforts against Mr. Maduro inside the Trump administration, has described Mr. Maduro as an illegitimate president.
But the direct conversations between Mr. Trump and Mr. Maduro could be the beginning of an effort to create an off-ramp from an escalating use of force, though the administration appears intent on an outcome that requires Mr. Maduro to leave office.
>>2577187He's scaring him for concessions.
US indictments (2020-2023) accuse Maduro and several officials of participating in the so-called “Cartel de los Soles,” but these indictments rely heavily on defectors, informants, and DEA-linked witnesses, many of whom have political or criminal incentives to cooperate. No international court, UN body, or independent investigative consortium (like ICIJ or OCCRP) has produced hard evidence tying Maduro directly to the drug trade. Even US intelligence assessments (according to leaked reports and congressional testimony) acknowledge that most cocaine flows today pass through Colombia, Ecuador, Central America, and the Caribbean, not Venezuela. Cocaine production happens almost entirely in Colombia, and to a much lesser extent, Peru and Bolivia. Trafficking through Venezuela did increase between 2005-2015 but since 2016, DEA and UNODC reporting shows that other routes have grown much faster, showing evidence that the US government's claims are not motivated by anti-drug-trafficking sentiment, but by a desire for regime change against a rival rich with oil. Parallels to false accusations made against Saddam Hussein in Iraq make sense in this context..
A large body of documented history shows that US intelligence agencies have, at times, tolerated or indirectly abetted drug-linked actors when it aligned with US geopolitical goals. In the '80s, CIA-linked Nicaraguan counter-revolutionaries, or "contras," trafficked cocaine to the US; evidence eventually forced internal CIA investigations. In Bolivia, during operation condor, Anti-communist military leaders with drug ties received US support. In Bolivia, in the '90s and '00s, paramilitaries deeply involved in drug trafficking received tacit US assistance in the fight against leftist FARC militias. Given this history, Latin American analysts often view US narco-accusations as being both unproven and selectively-used against leftist governments but not right-wing allies.
The “narco-state” label becomes politically convenient because it is used to justify sanctions and asset seizures without requiring multilateral approval, because it creates a moral frame (“drug traffickers”) that makes regime-change narratives easier, because it weakens a government diplomatically by framing it as criminal rather than political, and because it generates pretexts for military deployments under the umbrella of “counter-narcotics.”
So when can we expect missiles to start flying. The people who dictate foreign policy are not going to waste fucking around with Venezuelan navy vessels and constantly talk non-stop about Venezuleans being a terror and narco threat without committing to something worse.
>>2577205never. maduro is going to serve venezuela up in a platter to trump.
the best we can hope for is that that bitch of machado gets humiliated and trump picks someone else to lead neo-venezuela.
>>2577217>maduro is going to serve venezuela up in a platter to trump.then why are they mass mobilizing
>>2577193can you fuck off to your containment thread or board to do your le ebin shitposts, please?
>>2577164I'll add it to the list of Westerner projection that
should be true. Next to the 100 million.
Name a country more deserving of the Qing China treatment than the US. UK, maybe?
>>2577318Nobody because revenge is bourgeois.
>>2577321>revenge is bourgeois???
Sounds like someone who's a massive target.
>>2577322it's reactionary
>>2577318>deserves>treatmentdon't care about that, i just want the proletariat to win and for the oppressed nations to no longer be oppressed (i am the anon). that is the most relevant thing. whether that is gotten in the short term by destroying the US or not is a matter of time I suppose. I don't really see the US getting destroyed without it taking some kind of "Samson Option". some people say it cannot happen without destroying the US. I see why they say that but I am not inclined to be as certain. I think the US is capable of destroying itself, in any case, without it needing the Qing treatment.
>>2577321>>2577322>>2577323let's not make this a philosophical argument about revenge.
>>2577329On the other hand, if a socialist state conducts foreign trade using US dollars obtained by flooding the West with narcota, that's a-okay with me.
So this is just going to happen right?
>>2576909You will probably see at least Geran-2 drones being launched. I have little doubt Russia has sold them to Venezuela, they're dirt cheap, produced in the hundreds every day, and require pretty much no training to launch, just rails and GLONASS access.
>>2577573I sure hope it does. It would be a massive blunder, like Afghanistan but much worse, mainly due to the advent of FPV drones. Both army and militia can easily press plastic explosive into a soda bottle and attach it to the underside of a drone.
https://militarnyi.com/en/news/venezuelan-army-begins-mastering-fpv-drones/ >>2577329>oppressed nationsLib lmao
The correct response on Maduro's part is to do nothing - or even give the US more than it wanted to take. We are called to suffer the slings and arrows of this broken world with solemnity and poise.
>>2577611>dude accept invasion lmao>dude let them loot youshut up
>>2577613"If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." – Luke 6:29
>>2577614Jesus also told his disciples to carry fucking swords in case of capture. So Maduro is more Christ-like you you LARPer.
>>2577615The statement couldn't be clearer, brother.
>>2577617Self defence is also enshrined in the catechism of the catholic church.
>>2577618I care about only the words of Christ.
Where they appear to contradict, I listen to the inner voice of the Holy Spirit.
>>2577615No he didn't you massive fucking retard. if you're going to be a disgusting fat burger federal faggot at least be right when you do it.
Interesting that as soon as a new thread is made and the closer war gets that faggots like you and the flag flags you are pretending is your interlocutor all turn up en mass to say absolutely nothing again and again. Why are you faggots like this? can't you just get a real job instead?
>>2577662why are you mumbling incoherently to yourself
>>2577665Came here to post this. When's the first commercial airliner to get shot down like those innocent fishermen? Also bloodthirsty libs on reddit are saying that he should have done this to Ukraine, LMAO.
>>2577672Liberals are very peace loving until their financial masters say we need more oil or natural gas. Then war crimes are okay.
>>2577581TIL Lenin was a lib.
>>2577540>So this is just going to happen right?Has been. Inevitable. Even the 'nothing ever happens' posters hearts are not in it.
Something may happen (and I hope it doesn't)
>>2576857Kinda wonder why Chile is always forgotten
Do Venezuelans even have enough will to fight?
Tomorrow Honduras may (but probably won't) elect a socialist. I think America wants to intervene quickly to keep any semblance of control over Central America.
>>2577688They have 4 million political militia members. I'm pretty sure they have a will.
Venezuela is gonna give the U.S military a black eye, trump will contrive some sort of reason that pulling out is actually winning and then pretend he didn’t try and start a continental war. Market will crash and unrest is gonna reach critical levels.
>>2577688>Do Venezuelans even have enough will to fight?i'd say more so than more or less any other country that could have been chosen. Only time will tell if that is enough though.
>>2577665What are the chances that this is just market manipulation?
>>2577707Manipulation for what? Venezuelan oil?
>>2577708Stock markets. It's the weekend. He has done this quite a bit.
>>2577707That would be funny if all this was just to rug pull MIC. Call the war off next week and and do puts on Raytheon and Boeing.
>>2577682>Even the 'nothing ever happens' posters hearts are not in it.Not true. See the last step:
<Maduro decap [still here, activity intensifying]<Russian/Chinese words of support<Cucktin using his new strategic-agreement line with Venezuela to counsel le epic restraint chess <harsh words at the UN from Global South countries, none of whom will actually cut ties with the US, despite the copium smoked by some Cucktin apologists on what the Global South values about his cuckoldry<Iran-style social media blitz and then retaliation against empty barracks, prioritizing fireworks displays over targets<fizzle I wonder what Cuba will do.
Reminder that when people say NOTHING EVER HAPPENS on leftypol, they mean against the hegemon (primarily the US but also its untethered maniac peers like Israel).
Obviously the Gaza genocide and US strikes against Iran are happenings in the very loosest sense, but how do they satisfy leftist cravings?
>>2577712>>2577707Trump is singlehandedly proving the efficient-market hypothesis to be a bunch of nonsense. You can set your watch to the dip after his Truth Social posts and the inevitable reversal three or four days later.
>>2577727>leftist cravingsFuck me you people are retarded.
>>2577737If you were confident that you were not retarded, you wouldn't have fallen into the habit a decade or two ago of making risk-free, unelaborated posts.
Yes Gaddafi, don't worry, we guarantee we will not accuse you of terrorist attacks without evidence and invade you shortly after.
>>2577744stop posting this ugly ass hoe
>>2577798
It is a mystery
>>2577707no, it's more related to scare off private investment.
as I said in the last thread:
-No marines build-up to invade. Navy officers are not tasked neither assigned to this.
-ships can't simply waltz-in. Venezuela has multiple anti-ship cruise missiles to case a havoc to that fleet.
-no proxy nation to use against Venezuela with a long-standing army. neither Brasil or Colombia are willing to be the US proxies, and that infuriates trump and their gusano circle.
tl;dr. it's merely theatrics to scare off investment and stop economic growth that has been happening since 2021 at great pace.
>>2577828>-no proxy nation to use against Venezuela with a long-standing army.El Salvador?
>>2577798
>They already have s400 specifications that turkey gave them so they have counters to those
that works backwards. Russians also have information on how nato planes work, too. since turkey has held air force drills and military exercise altogether with the US, they probably tested the AA system, and by extension prolly got the information, too.
>>2577831do you know how far it is? also El Salvador army is smol.
The United States have strategic bases across the Caribbean and Central America.
>>2577958>Honduras currently has a socialist presidentWhy haven't we heard of her then
she isn't a socdem in all but name, is she?
Venezuela condemns Trump statement on closing the country's airspace
Nov 29 - Venezuela condemned U.S. President Trump's assertion that the airspace around Venezuela should be considered closed, a government statement said on Saturday.
It called Trump's comments, made earlier, a "colonialist threat" against the country's sovereignty and incompatible with international law.
Trump said on Saturday the airspace above and surrounding Venezuela should be considered "closed in its entirety," but gave no further details.
"To all Airlines, Pilots, Drug Dealers, and Human Traffickers, please consider THE AIRSPACE ABOVE AND SURROUNDING VENEZUELA TO BE CLOSED IN ITS ENTIRETY," Trump said in a Truth Social post. REUTERS.
Maduro tells Venezuelan air force to ‘be ready’ amid Trump threats
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has urged the country’s air force to remain “ready and resolute” in defending the nation, after US President Donald Trump threatened land operations in the region.
The Pentagon has deployed warships to the Caribbean and carried out strikes on small Venezuelan boats it says are used for drug smuggling – actions Washington frames as counternarcotics but which Caracas calls illegal. US officials have long accused Maduro of overseeing a cartel-linked regime and have hinted that direct military action could follow. Maduro, who says Washington is trying to topple him, rejects the drug-trafficking allegations and has warned Washington against launching “a crazy war.”
Speaking on Thursday, Maduro said he was confident Venezuela would prevail if it were forced to declare itself a “republic in arms,” ordering members of the Bolivarian Military Aviation to stay “alert and ready.”
“I ask you to always remain serene, alert, ready and willing to defend our rights as a nation, as a free and sovereign homeland,” he told troops. Maduro said 82% of Venezuelans had declared they were ready to defend the country “with weapons in hand.”
His remarks came as Trump claimed the US would soon expand operations to halt Venezuelan drug shipments on land, offering no evidence for the timing or the scale of the threat. Addressing service members at Dyess Air Force Base in Texas, Trump praised the Air Force’s 7th Bomb Wing and asserted that US efforts had already cut maritime trafficking by about 85%. He said traffickers were “killing hundreds of thousands” of Americans with the drugs they send north and said land-based operations would begin imminently.
>>2577958AJ had an article on it yday:
>Incriminating audio. A military demanding oversight. And a powerful leader from abroad, trying to sway voters to the right.>Those are just three of the scandals that have made Sunday’s presidential election in Honduras one of the most closely watched votes in the country’s history.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/11/28/ahead-of-a-tight-presidential-election-honduras-braces-for-controversy >>2577613>>2577615>>2577618youre being taken for a ride by an obvious troll
>>2577828> economic growth that has been happening since 2021 at great pace.proof?
>>2577581https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm
<The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination
<1. Imperialism, Socialism, and the Liberation of Oppressed Nations
<Imperialism is the highest stage of development of capitalism. Capital in the advanced countries has outgrown the boundaries of national states. It has established monopoly in place of competition, thus creating all the objective prerequisites for the achievement of socialism. Hence, in Western Europe and in the United States of America, the revolutionary struggle of the proletariat for the overthrow of the capitalist governments, for the expropriation of the bourgeoisie, is on the order of the day. Imperialism is forcing the masses into this struggle by sharpening class antagonisms to an immense degree, by worsening the conditions of the masses both economically—trusts and high cost of living, and politically—growth of militarism, frequent wars, increase of reaction, strengthening and extension of national oppression and colonial plunder. Victorious socialism must achieve complete democracy and, consequently, not only bring about the complete equality of nations, but also give effect to the right of oppressed nations to self-determination, i.e., the right to free political secession. Socialist Parties which fail to prove by all their activities now, as well as during the revolution and after its victory, that they will free the enslaved nations and establish relations with them on the basis of a free union and a free union is a lying phrase without right to secession—such parties would be committing treachery to socialism. >>2577958why are arabs so prominent in these central american countries?
>>2577973It's an interesting but I like the theory of "middleman minorities." The Jewish historian Yuri Slezkine wrote a book about this in reference to Jews, but he talks about other groups playing a similar social role in other societies. Chinese in S.E. Asia. Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. Lebanese and other Arabs in Latin America and Africa. Many of them started as merchants and rose into prominence in business and politics.
The former vice president of Venezuela is Tareck El Aissami (he has been purged btw) whose great uncle (in the suit next to Saddam) was a high-ranking Ba'ath party official.
>>2577958This random article i don't really have context for said the liberal faction is basically completely dominant within the party.
https://contracorriente.red/2025/04/01/m28-la-representacion-del-tradicionalismo-politico-que-manda-en-libre/ the horrible narcoterrorist socialist failed state where people eat grass is actually a growing economy
quick, strike it with jet fighters before they become a genuine economic power
>>2577581>>2577969(Part 2/? because leftypol says "body too long")
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/x01.htm<The fact that imperialism is parasitic or decaying capitalism is manifested first of all in the tendency to decay, which is characteristic of every monopoly under the system of private ownership of the means of production. The difference between the democratic-republican and the reactionary-monarchist imperialist bourgeoisie is obliterated precisely because they are both rotting alive (which by no means precludes an extraordinarily rapid development of capitalism in individual branches of industry, in individual countries, and in individual periods). Secondly, the decay of capitalism is manifested in the creation of a huge stratum of rentiers, capitalists who live by “clipping coupons”. In each of the four leading imperialist countries—England, U.S.A., France and Germany—capital in securities amounts to 100,000 or 150,000 million francs, from which each country derives an annual income of no less than five to eight thousand million. Thirdly, export of capital is parasitism raised to a high pitch. Fourthly, “finance capital strives for domination, not freedom”. Political reaction all along the line is a characteristic feature of imperialism. Corruption, bribery on a huge scale and all kinds of fraud. Fifthly, the exploitation of oppressed nations—which is inseparably connected with annexations—and especially the exploitation of colonies by a handful of “Great” Powers, increasingly transforms the “civilised” world into a parasite on the body of hundreds of millions in the uncivilised nations. The Roman proletarian lived at the expense of society. Modern society lives at the expense of the modern proletarian. Marx specially stressed this profound observation of Sismondi.[7] Imperialism somewhat changes the situation. A privileged upper stratum of the proletariat in the imperialist countries lives partly at the expense of hundreds of millions in the uncivilised nations.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/aug/20.htm<The socialists, who seek to liberate labour from the yoke of capital and who defend the world-wide solidarity of the workers, are struggling against any kind of oppression and inequality of nations. When the bourgeoisie was a progressive class, and the overthrow of feudalism, absolutism and oppression by other nations stood on the historical order of the day, the socialists, as invariably the most consistent and most resolute of democrats, recognised “defence of the fatherland” in the meaning implied by those aims, and in that meaning alone. Today too, should a war of the oppressed nations against the oppressor Great Powers break out in the east of Europe or in the colonies, the socialists’ sympathy would be wholly with the oppressed.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/sep/00.htm<Is the position of the proletariat with regard to national oppression the same in oppressing and oppressed nations? No, it is not the same, not the same economically, politically, ideologically, spiritually, etc. […] The author has not proved and will not prove the difference between colonies and oppressed nations in Europe (as applied to the question under discussion).https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/ch08.htm<At first Marx thought that Ireland would not be liberated by the national movement of the oppressed nation, but by the working-class movement of the oppressor nation. Marx did not make an Absolute of the national movement, knowing, as he did, that only the victory of the working class can bring about the complete liberation of all nationalities. It is impossible to estimate beforehand all the possible relations between the bourgeois liberation movements of the oppressed nations and the proletarian emancipation movement of the oppressor nation (the very problem which today makes the national question in Russia so difficult).https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch09.htm<Here is an example. The German imperialists attempt, in the magazine Archives of World Economy, to follow the national emancipation movements in the colonies, particularly, of course, in colonies other than those belonging to Germany. They note the unrest and the protest movements in India, the movement in Natal (South Africa), in the Dutch East Indies, etc. One of them, commenting on an English report of a conference held on June 28-30, 1910, of representatives of various subject nations and races, of peoples of Asia, Africa and Europe who are under foreign rule, writes as follows in appraising the speeches delivered at this conference: “We are told that we must fight imperialism; that the ruling states should recognise the right of subject peoples to independence; that an international tribunal should supervise the fulfilment of treaties concluded between the great powers and weak peoples. Further than the expression of these pious wishes they do not go. We see no trace of understanding of the fact that imperialism is inseparably bound up with capitalism in its present form and that, therefore [!!], an open struggle against imperialism would be hopeless, unless, perhaps, the fight were to be confined to protests against certain of its especially abhorrent excesses.” [1] Since the reform of the basis of imperialism is a deception, a “pious wish”, since the bourgeois representatives of the oppressed nations go no “further” forward, the bourgeois representative of an oppressing nation goes “further” backward, to servility towards imperialism under cover of the claim to be “scientific.” That is also “logic”! >>2577581>>2577969>>2577998(Part 3 because leftypol says "body too long")
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/x02.htm<The slogan of self-determination of nations should also be advanced in connection with the imperialist era of capitalism. We do not stand for the status quo, or for the philistine Utopia of standing aside in great wars. We stand for a revolutionary struggle against imperialism, i.e., capitalism. Imperialism consists in a striving of nations that oppress a number of other nations to extend and increase that oppression and to repartition the colonies. That is why the question of self-determination of nations today hinges on the conduct of socialists of the oppressor nations. A socialist of any of the oppressor nations (Britain. France, Germany, Japan, Russia, the United States of America, etc.) who does not recognise and does not struggle for the right of oppressed nations to self-determination (i.e., the right to secession) is in reality a chauvinist, not a socialist.
<Only this point of view can lead to a sincere and consistent struggle against imperialism, to a proletarian, not a philistine approach (today) to the national question. Only this point of view can load to a consistent application of the principle of combating any form of the oppression of nations; it removes mistrust among the proletarians of the oppressor and oppressed nations, makes for a united international struggle for the socialist revolution (i.e., for the only accomplishable regime of complete national equality), as distinct from the philistine Utopia of freedom for all small states in general, under capitalism.
<This is the point of view adopted by our Party, i.e., by those Social-Democrats of Russia who have rallied around the Central Committee. This was the point of view adopted by Marx when he taught the proletariat that “no nation can he free if it oppresses other nations”. It was from this point of view that Marx demanded the separation of Ireland from Britain, this in the interests of the freedom movement, not only of the Irish, but especially of the British workers.
<If the socialists of Britain do not recognise and uphold Ireland’s right to secession, if the French do not do the same for Italian Nice, the Germans for Alsace-Lorraine, Danish Schleswig, and Poland, the Russians for Poland, Finland, the Ukraine, etc., and the Poles for the Ukraine-if all the socialists of the “Great” Powers, i.e., the great robber powers, do not uphold that right in respect of the colonies, it is solely because they are in fact imperialists, not socialists. It is ridiculous to cherish illusions that people who do not fight for “the right to self-determination” of the oppressed nations, while they themselves belong to the oppressor nations, are capable of practising socialist policies.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/7thconf2/10.htm<Comrade Lenin recalled that the Polish Social-Democrats were against the right to national self-determination in 1903, when the question was not raised in the prospect of a socialist revolution. The specific character of their stand on the national question is due to their peculiar position in Poland; the tsarist oppression fed the nationalistic passions of the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois sections of Poland. The Polish Social-Democrats had to go through a desperate struggle against the “socialists” (P.P.S) who were even prepared to have a European war for the sake of Poland’s liberation, and only they, the Polish Social-Democrats, spreading the feelings of international solidarity among the Polish workers, led them closer to the workers of Russia. However, their attempt to impose a rejection of the right to self-determination on the socialists of the oppressor nations is extremely erroneous and in the event of success could result in nothing more than the adoption of a chauvinistic stand by the Russian Social-Democrats. By rejecting the oppressed nations’ right to self-determination, the socialists of the oppressor nations become chauvinists, giving support to their own bourgeoisie. Russian socialists must work to secure freedom to secede for the oppressed nations, while the socialists of the oppressed nations must maintain freedom to integrate, both taking formally different (essentially the same) ways towards the same goal: the international organisation of the proletariat. Those who say that the national question has been solved within the bourgeois system tend to forget that it has been solved (but not in every case) only in the west of Europe, where the purity of the population is sometimes as high as 90 per cent, but not in the east, where the purity of the population is limited to only 43 per cent. Finland’s example shows that the national question is in practice on the order of the day and that the alternative is support for the imperialist bourgeoisie or the duty of international solidarity, which does not allow of any violation of the will of the oppressed nations. The Mensheviks, who invited the Finnish Social-Democrats to “wait” until the Constituent Assembly and settle the question of autonomy together with it, actually spoke out in the spirit of the Russian imperialists.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/jul/x01.htm<8. Parties in countries whose bourgeoisie possess colonies and oppress other nations must pursue a most well-defined and clear-cut policy in respect of colonies and oppressed nations. Any party wishing to join the Third International must ruthlessly expose the colonial machinations of the imperialists of its “own” country, must support—in deed, not merely in word—every colonial liberation movement, demand the expulsion of its compatriot imperialists from the colonies, inculcate in the hearts of the workers of its own country an attitude of true brotherhood with the working population of the colonies and the oppressed nations, and conduct systematic agitation among the armed forces against all oppression of the colonial peoples.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/miliprog/i.htm<We must not allow ourselves to be led astray by words. The term “defense of the fatherland”, for instance, is hateful to many because both avowed opportunists and Kautskyites use it to cover up and gloss over the bourgeois lie about the present predatory war. This is a fact. But it does not follow that we must no longer see through to the meaning of political slogans. To accept “defense of the fatherland” in the present war is no more nor less than to accept it as a “just” war, a war in the interests of the proletariat—no more nor less, we repeat, because invasions may occur in any war. It would be sheer folly to repudiate “defense of the fatherland” on the part of oppressed nations in their wars against the imperialist Great Powers, or on the part of a victorious proletariat in its war against some Galliffet of a bourgeois state.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/oct/01.htm<It is interesting, moreover, that the "non-Russian groups" revealed a considerable predominance of opponents of a coalition, namely, 40 votes against 15. The policy of annexation and open violence pursued by the Bonapartist Kerensky and Co. towards the non-sovereign nations of Russia has borne fruit. Wide sections of the people of the oppressed nations (i.e., including the mass of the petty bourgeoisie) trust the proletariat of Russia more than they do the bourgeoisie, for here history has brought to the fore the struggle for liberation of the oppressed nations against the oppressing nations. The bourgeoisie has despicably betrayed the cause of freedom of the oppressed nations; the proletariat is faithful to the cause of freedom.
<At the present time the national and agrarian questions are fundamental questions for the petty-bourgeois sections of the population of Russia. This is indisputable. And on both these questions the proletariat is "not isolated"—farther from it than ever. It has the majority of the people behind it. It alone is capable of pursuing such a determined, genuinely."revolutionary-democratic" policy on both questions which would immediately ensure the proletarian state power not only the support of the majority of the population, but also a real outburst of revolutionary enthusiasm among the people. This is because, for the first time, the people would not see the ruthless oppression of peasants by landowners and of Ukrainians by Great Russians on the part of the government, as was the case under tsarism, nor the effort to continue the same policy camouflaged in pompous phrases under the republic, nor nagging, insult, chicanery, procrastination, underhand dealing and evasions (all that with which Kerensky rewards the peasants and the oppressed nations), but would receive warm sympathy proved by deeds, immediate and revolutionary measures against the landowners, immediate restitution of full freedom for Finland, the Ukraine, Byelorussia, for the Moslems, and so on.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jun/x04.htm<What is international is not at all anti-national; we stand for the right of nations to self-assertion; we are against the browbeating of weak nations, David asserts, failing to understand (or rather pretending not to understand) that justifying participation in the imperialist war and advancing the “against defeat” slogan in this war means acting, not only as an anti-socialist, but also as an anti-national politician. For the present-day imperialist war is a war between Great Powers (i.e., powers that oppress a number of other nations), conducted for the purpose of oppressing new nations. One cannot he “national” in an imperialist war otherwise than by being a socialist politician, i.e., by recognising the right of oppressed nations to liberation, to secession from the Great Powers that oppress them. In the era of imperialism, there can be no other salvation for most of the world’s nations than through revolutionary action undertaken by the proletariat of the Great Powers, spreading beyond the boundaries of nationality, smashing those boundaries, and overthrowing the international bourgeoisie. Until the bourgeoisie is overthrown, there will remain nations known as “Great Powers”, i.e., the oppression will remain of nine-tenths of the nations of the whole world. The overthrow of the bourgeoisie will enormously accelerate the downfall of national partitions of every kind, this without decreasing but, on the contrary, increasing a millionfold the “differentiation” of humanity, in the meaning of the wealth and the variety in spiritual life, ideological trends, tendencies, and shades.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/oct/00.htm<If the Bundists wanted to think, and could do so, they would realise that on the question of annexations they are wandering in the dark. There is only one way out of their wanderings and confusion: accept the programme we expounded as early as 1913.[2] Namely, that a conscientious and forthright anti-annexation policy requires that socialists and democrats of the oppressed nations, in all their propaganda and agitation, denounce as scoundrels those socialists of the oppressor nations (whether Great Russians or Germans, Poles in relation to the Ukrainians, etc.) who do not consistently and unreservedly stand for free secession of nations oppressed by their own nation (or forcibly held by it).https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/dec/15.htm<This is the essence of Rosa Luxemburg’s amusing error for which she was ridiculed a long time ago by German and Russian (August 1903) Social-Democrats; in their fear of playing into the hands of the bourgeois nationalism of oppressed nations, people play into the hands not merely of the bourgeois but of the reactionary nationalism of the oppressor nation.THIS ONE IS CRUCIAL 👆
<In Russia only the liquidators consider the bourgeois-democratic revolution to be over, and the concomitant of such a revolution all over the world always has been and still is national movements. In Russia in particular there are oppressed nations in many of the border regions, which in neighbouring states enjoy greater liberty. Tsarism is more reactionary than the neighbouring states, constitutes the greatest barrier to free economic development, and does its utmost to foster Great-Russian nationalism. For a Marxist, of course, all other conditions being equal, big states are always preferable to small ones. But it would be ridiculous and reactionary even to suppose that conditions under the tsarist monarchy might be equal to those in any European country or any but a minority of Asian countries.So next time you call someone a lib for using the phrase "oppressed nations" maybe just admit you think Lenin was a lib so everyone can know exactly where your'e coming from
>>2577973>why are arabs so prominent in these central american countries?Why are Italians and Jews so prominent in New York?
>>2577707Zero.
Trump had beef with Venezuela during his first term, too.
>>2578002are you serious?
>>2577688>Do Venezuelans even have enough will to fight?<burger imperialismyes, absolutely
<for Maduroehhh
>>2578006the silvercorp mercenaries tried to coup venezuela during trump term 1. did you forget them pissing their pants and trump distancing himself from the event?
>>2578006>>2578002since 2002, really.
after all, Chavez was couped by the CIA.
So was Trumps no-fly order enforced? For America, I mean.
>>2578030a lot of the international airlines already stopped flights a few days earlier.
>>2578037Polish politicians have not been affected by Venezuela ever and they're posting this shit. Lapdogs.
Marco Rubio furiously masturbating to the idea of gentrifying another country.
Brutal
i hope china learns from this that going forward the USA will through military means forcibly revert any peaceful economic influence they might gain throughout the world. whether they like or not, whether they are economically and militarily ready or not, they are the second most powerful country in the world which in the eyes of the USA inherently makes them their enemy.
>>2578053But even if America throws its slowly degrading military might to try and keep on top they cannot realistically compete against China without radical change which the nature of capitalism will never accept. Even if America established full on fascism and slave labour it would never keep up.
The smell of a big juice nothing burger is growing stronger
Either nothing happens, and the whole world realises America can't swing its economic or military might around anymore. Or something happens and tensions between the westoid nations and the BRICS bloc deepens
>>2578012where is he now?
>the entire Venezuelan military high command is totally drug traffickers
>anyway, I'm pardoning a central american politician convicted of drug trafficking
this is something from the simpsons
>>2578067Graham celebrates Trump admin moves to end ‘madness in Venezuela’>Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Saturday praised President Trump’s mounting pressure on and military accumulation near Venezuela, as the president mulls over taking action against the South American country “very soon.”“I very much appreciate and respect the determination by President Trump to deal with the drug caliphate countries that inhabit our backyard — chief among them Venezuela,” Graham posted on the social media platform X. “For over a decade, [Venezuelan President Nicolás] Maduro has controlled a narcoterrorist state that is poisoning America and he has created alliances with international terrorist organizations like Hezbollah.”
>Graham echoed the administration by calling Maduro “an illegitimate leader” who “maintains control of Venezuela by a reign of terror.” The Venezuelan leader has denied such accusations.>“President Trump’s strong commitment to end this madness in Venezuela will save countless American lives and will give the beautiful people of Venezuela a new lease on life,” Graham continued. “I hear Turkey and Iran are lovely this time of year…” >>2578072Didn't this guy critique Trump for a while after he was released from his government role? Now all of a sudden he's on side. Once again these people have no real views. They just have objectives they have to follow to keep the ship steady as it were.
>>2578076no this guy does sincerely held values and positions, he's on the side of whoever is pro maximum murder at any time.
Fuck you U.S.A
You are big asshole
You are the oil looter
You are great satan
>>2578030no.
>>2578032the usual suspects. the 'no one will fly over Venezuela' is just a rehash of 2019 'no American airline will fly under 8km above Venezuelan space' that was followed by the majority of commercial flights.
this time only 4:
Iberia airlines.
Turkish airlines.
Portuguese airlines.
and one other from Chile, I don't remember.
the rest it's working.
>>2578097But are any American airlines allowed to land
>>2578073>>2578037meh, basically the internal right. they are very quick at shaking hands with whatever imperialist project there is.
>>2578099not since 2019. biden never lifted the ban.
>>2578100international* right
>>2578100Then what is Trump on about? Does he think nobody already knows they're banned?
>>2578102I presented a bit of a conjunction here:
>>2577828. but I am not 100% sure. with these people you can't never be sure.
>>2578102theatre man likes to do theatre on the world stage. unsurprising.
>>2578102also, apparently the US cancelled the re-patriation flights of Venezuelan nationals that are inside the US. Weird move, considering that they want to cut down the immigrant population. maybe they want now to send them to a third country first.
Bay of Pigs 2.0 or 2.5 if you count that ludicrously embarrassing merc one.
>>2578097Achushually, the venezuelan gov retired those airlines permit to fly over them. Accused them of harvoring traitors or glowies or soemthing
>>2577677that anon talked out of his ass and now he's nowhere to be seen
>>2578187>south americanorth american education
Just in case it goes down, anybody crying about American "soldiertariat" gets banned, right?
>>2578189Venezuela is in South America anon.
>>2578192To be fair even that idea wouldn't make sense because they'll use a very specialised task force. Unless they intend to invade the country.
>>2578197Venezuela has an air force and air defenses. Without a ground invasion, US isn't doing shit. Plus, they have
some anti-ship missiles. And I will coom, if a carrier gets sunk, with 4.5k personnel aboard.
Damn, all the libs in my circle are already making excuses for the invasion. "Venezuela kinda deserves it, it's a major drug trafficking hub". Real bleak shit man, what do you even say?
>>2578209tell them to kill themselves
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/elliott-abrams-venezuela/Elliott Abrams returns, promoting a Caracas cakewalk
<Former admin official who was present for many of the foreign policy failures in modern US history, has a military proposal for Venezuela
>It may not be a “cakewalk,” but it’ll still be pretty damn easy.
>Just a few air strikes at key targets in Venezuela and the “remov[al],” presumably by U.S. Special Forces, of “the regime’s top thug,” and the government of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro should collapse like souffle, paving the way to democracy, economic prosperity, and national reconciliation.
>That’s the scenario painted by a leading, if controversial, neoconservative in a new article entitled “How to Topple Maduro,” published Thursday by the highly influential “Foreign Affairs” journal.
>The author: Elliott Abrams, who served as Special Representative for Venezuela in President Trump’s first term. He also helped prosecute the contra war in Nicaragua as Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs under former President Ronald Reagan (and was convicted of misleading Congress about his role in the Iran-contra affair), and wait for it… he was former President George W. Bush’s senior Middle East adviser on the National Security Council (2002-2009) during which he promoted the disastrous U.S. invasion of Iraq and backed an equally disastrous coup attempt against Hamas in Gaza.
>Here's his plan for regime change in Venezuela:
<“First, Washington should expand its target list to include drug-trafficking speedboats in ports in addition to those on the high seas, because the threat must be brought home to the Venezuelan military. To protect U.S. planes that may strike targets in Venezuela (and to demonstrate that such strikes are planned), U.S. forces should destroy Venezuela’s air defense systems, F-16 fighter aircraft at the Palo Negro Air Base, and Sukhoi jets at the air base located on La Orchila, an island about 100 miles off the coast. Airstrikes should also target small airstrips in western Venezuela used for drug trafficking and bases in western Venezuela used by the National Liberation Army (known by its Spanish acronym, ELN), a Colombian terrorist group aligned with Maduro and also engaged in narcotics traffic.
<“No single step would have a greater effect on the Venezuelan military, intelligence services, and police than removing [Interior Minister] Diosdado Cabello, the regime’s chief thug… …Removing him from power would show everyone in the regime’s security organs that they were not safe, and that its power to protect itself and them was fast eroding.
<“It is not likely that [President Nicolas Maduro’s] regime could withstand such an assault,” according to Abrams, who stresses, that aside from the possible deployment of Special Forces to “apprehend indicted regime leaders,” “[i]t would be neither wise nor necessary to deploy U.S. ground forces to Venezuela.”
>Ironically, Abrams’ advice was published on the same day that the New York Times reported that war games carried out by participants from all relevant agencies in the U.S. government in early 2019 — of which Abrams as Special Representative for Venezuela must have been aware — concluded that Maduro’s ouster by military coup, popular uprising, or U.S. military action would, according to one unclassified report, produce “chaos for a sustained period of time with no possibility of ending it.”
>“You would have no command and control over the military and no police force. You’d have looting and chaos,” the author of the war games report, Douglas Farah, told the Times, adding that restoring order would likely require tens of thousands of U.S. troops.
>That assessment echoed the conclusions of a recent report by the International Crisis Group (ICG) that warned that, even if the U.S. succeeded in removing Maduro, it could a general breakdown in security, whether from senior military officers, parts of the security forces determined to “wage a guerrilla-type war against the new authorities,” other armed groups already active in the country, including the battle-hardened Colombian rebel group, the ELN, urban-based pro-Maduro gangs known as colectivos, or all of the above.
>“Any incoming post-Maduro government will have to deal with a dysfunctional politicised bureaucracy; a major economic and humanitarian crisis; and collapsed infrastructure. It would be hard-pressed to maintain stability if it is simultaneously subjected to a campaign of political violence,” according to the report.
>Unsurprisingly, Abrams apparently thinks such warnings are overly pessimistic.
<“Maduro’s departure from power [would be] followed by the installation of the legitimate government led by [Edmundo] González [the presidential opposition candidate widely believed to have defeated Maduro in the 2024 election], followed by economic recovery, free elections, and the kind of negotiated amnesty (for all but the top figures of the regime) and national reconciliation that has been possible in other Latin American countries after dictators have fallen. The loyalty of the army and police to the new government cannot be assumed, of course, but if it can pay them using frozen assets or loans, their fealty to the departed Maduro will rapidly disappear.”
>Hey, what could be easier? Everything should just fall into place, right? A cakewalk in Caracas.
>“The idea that you’re going to be able to slot in a government and everything else will just fall into place, I think is just fantasy,” the ICG report’s main author, Phil Gunson, told the Times.
<Abrams certainly doesn’t think so. “The escape hatch should be clear," he wrote, "Maduro’s departure from power, followed by the installation of the legitimate government led by González, followed by economic recovery, free elections, and the kind of negotiated amnesty (for all but the top figures of the regime) and national reconciliation that has been possible in other Latin American countries after dictators have fallen.” >>2578209Ask them if they, at least, get paid to spew CIA's bullshit.
>>2578209>Real bleak shit man, what do you even say?Say:
>Peace.Then you find new friends
Please shove a iranian drone or fire an anti ship missile at at least one american aircraft carrier. Please sink one. It would be so funny.
>>2578233
You haven't even done anything yet.
>>2578233
Fuck off porky, your kind ain't welcome here
>>2578209tell them that it's not true
>>2578209tell them that not only is that not true, but even if it were true it would be based because the drugs should be completely legal
>>2578233
>hammer and sickle
>fist and rose
Choose one.
>>2578159eh, well, the chronological order was that they decided to stop their flights, then the government decided to revoke their permits, but the government gave them 48 hours to go back.
>>2578209>Real bleak shit man, what do you even say?basically tell them that their own drug agencies reveal that Venezuela plays no role or whatsoever in the drug trafficking.
also, remate the stuff with this
>>2578216 >>2578363
post link or naughty step for half an hour
>>2578370
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?
There are reports that the Venezuelan Presidential plane has landed on the Brazilian border. What are the chances that Maduro seeks asylum in Brazil
>>2578453
the collapse of US hegemony is composed of the combined effects of a million "nothingburgers"
this is gonna suck so bad, Venezuela's gonna get sacralized in shitty leftist talking points once the regime change is over with
>>2578608Its going to be shit when drugs are still pouring in, Trump pardoning an actual Honduran drug lord and they "find" out that Venezuela has no drug operation while the migrant crisis still is occurring and these gusanos make an excuse for that as well.
>>2578614Trump needs the drugs to keep pouring in. How else will he justify sending troops into Mexico/Panama/Cuba after Venezuela is destabilised?
>>2576851>China would be pissed by Yankee imperialismLOL as pissed as they are at israel bombing palestine (i.e. not at all)
>>2578616>>2578608>>2578614Imagine all that, but Venezuela is still standing.
>>2578620you haven't done anything either so I guess that means you don't care
>>2578666no you don't understand, they're drug dealers because we said so
>>2578689>bait is when pointing out china hasnt done anything for gaza beyond lip serviceis everyone here a mentally challenged autist or what
>>2578726>bro why doesn't china heckin stop israelwhy doesn't america stop selling them weapons, american?
>>2578726without china gaza wouldn't have any capacity to resist at all
imagine a world where only westerners can own computers and phones and any kind of modern technology at all
imagine a world where NK doesn't have china to rely on, and therefore can't give palestine the assistance that they do now
>>2578209>what do you even say?see
>>2577200 >>2577164 >>2578802建国同志 must remain in power, he's far too useful to us
>>2577619This is why Christianity needs to go
>>2578741>bro why doesn't china heckin stop israel>>why doesn't america stop selling them weapons, american?tbf, that's not really a rational response. Everyone here knows America is evil and won't change in its ways, so that's why some people look toward the goodness of China and get upset when they see what they consider to be inaction.
>>2577969>>2577998>>2577999The product of this are Israel and Ukraine btw
>>2578899That US proxy needs to go
>>2578907is the US that needs to go tho
>>2578959
are you serious?
>>2579067>are you serious?obviously not you spaz.
Venezuela slams US threat to 'seize oil reserves through military force'
Venezuela has sought OPEC and member countries' support to work together against the US "aggression," denouncing the US threat to "seize" the country's vast oil reserves through "military force".
In a letter to OPEC Secretary General Haitham Al Ghais and member countries, which Venezuelan Foreign Minister Yvan Gil shared on Telegram, President Nicolas Maduro stated that his country will "remain firm" in defending its natural energy resources.
Maduro issued the letter after US President Donald Trump warned on Saturday that Venezuelan airspace would be "completely shut down", while Caracas demanded "unconditional respect".
The Venezuelan president said his country denounces the mechanism through which the US intends to take Venezuela's oil reserves by using "lethal military force" against its territory, people, and institutions.
Maduro warned that the US's intention violates provisions governing peaceful coexistence among nations and endangers the stability of Venezuelan oil production and the international market.
He said the world is "well aware" of harmful consequences generated in other oil-producing countries following "military interventions by the United States of America and its allies."
Venezuela will not "succumb to any type of blackmail or threat," Maduro emphasised.
He expressed hope that OPEC and member countries would work together to put an end to the "aggression", warning that it "seriously" threatens the balance of the international energy market for both producers and consumers.
The letter came amid months of expanding US military operations across Latin America, deploying Marines, warships, fighter and bomber jets, submarines, and drones amid speculation that Washington could launch an attack on Venezuela.
President Donald Trump announced Thursday the US will "very soon" take action against Venezuela on land, following 21 military attacks at sea that killed at least 83 people since September.
>>2578850More like Protestants
>>2579127this is good. no political dynasty to ruin things
>>2579127She was in her 50s and 60s by the time her and Maduro got married. Why are you expecting kids from that union lmao
>>2579127Anon, they played the Beatles from the Saigon radio tower during the battle. The Beatles is war music.
>>2578895>muh ecspectations>muh good vs evilSounds like a them problem.
tired of the constant defense of US imperialism into Venezula by these "socialists" the Democratic "socialists" (social democrats) of America. These people have usurped the term socialist far to long, they molest the aesthetics and titles of communists, for their own degenerate purposes. They acknowledge the contradictions of social democracy, and actively IGNORE AND DISMISS THESE CONTRADICTIONS.
>>2579127>they don't fuckthey might just be sterile tbh. i had an aunt/uncle who adopted for that reason.
>>2579152unironically quite based
>>2578895i'm american. it's a rational response because i have way more power to hold "my" "own" "country" and the people in it accountable than i have over chinese people. also stopping someone actively doing harm should always be a higher priority than stopping someone whose biggest crime is doing nothing. any american seething about china for not doing more to fight the american-led axis's war crimes is sus. maybe eventually burger reich war criminals will attempt operation barbarossa 2.0 on china and "we" will get "our" shit stomped in rightfully
may lenin awaken the people, and bring about proletarian revolution in the "united" "states"
>>2579395its all the same war
>>2579402Very different wars.
>>2579406check the map again
>>2579411America is looting Ukraine, this is established. So is Russia. Inter Imperialist conflict. Venezuela is not looting any other nation.
>>2579414wrong. america is looting europe. venezuela gaza and ukraine are integral to the international gas monopoly brought about by fracking. neither russia nor venezuela are imperialist
>>2579418Americas material looting is due to its post-industrial nature. It is a cornered animal losing its grip on economic and geopolitical dominance so its looting resources by force to try and contend with the power of China etc. Russias imperialism is more old fashioned. But they are still fighting over resources.
>>2579418>Russia are not imperialist They're just as bad as the US. Both will invade literally anyone for oil or minerals.
I just know you're an American because it's always fucking retarded brainwashed zigger Americans who have no experience living in Europe who pretend Russia is some fluffy friendly democratic progressive peace loving socialist utopia.
They're both capitalist imperialist powers that need to be raped into oblivion. Stop being a retard.
How nice to know glowies are already sitting here, preparing to smear Maduro.
>>2579425>They're both capitalist imperialist powers that need to be raped into oblivion.Ok. USA first, though.
>>2579420Nonsense. All capitalist states are imperialist. Russian capitalism is monopoly capitalism. Russias GDP and investment has stagnated since 2008. Of course it had a reason to invade strategically rich regions of Ukraine the same as the US.
This is an idealistic mindset you have. Though Ukraine puppet government is to be considered a far greater evil. To defend the Russian state and Putin uncritically is to defend imperialism.
>>2579427>Says being European makes you a Nazi >Unrelated quote image Boring American retard/troll poster
>>2579434Cool, show me the numbers.
>>2579437sorry stalin took your grandpas egg monopoly or whatever
>>2579438>10 largest russian companies account for over 41% of the nations GDP>continued use of "round tripping" accounting of upwards of 30% of the total assets of 5 of the nations 15 largest companies>russian investment abroad increased by 109 times between 1995 and 2007>this has stagnated since 2008 since which direct investment has increased by only 1.1 times, making it dependent on the export capital.>GDP has not been at 2008 levels since>Russian investment makes up 55.6% of all investment in Uzbekistan which has average wages at roughly a quarter of the average Russian wage (super exploitation)The war in Ukraine is a fight for the redivision of terrorist and markets among "hostile brothers" as Marx would term it.
>>2579440I'm talking about modern Russia which is a capitalist, imperialist oligarchy on par with the US.
At least Ukraine actually has real Nazi ideology issues and NATO keeps expanding eastwards, so Russia's copium for taking Donbass mineral deposits makes semi-logical sense as an arguement.
Meanwhile Trump has to invent some schizo fantasy about Maduro and every ordinary Latino fisherman being the capo of some drug cartel.
Not sure how Stalin figures into any of that. Why do you think anyone born in Europe is a Nazi? Are you drunk?
>>2579434TRVKE
Anyone who claims Russia is not imperialist is not a serious person
>>2579444>modern Russia which is a capitalistok
>imperialist oligarchy wrong
>on par with the US. double wrong
russia is a developing periphery nation that primarily exports raw commodities like oil and timber not capital
>>2579442Okay, now how does being a raw material export economy is in any way comparable to imperialist powers of the past?
<shitting the thred up every day with 'le russia!! le china!!' spamming
damn, war it is then i guess.
>>2579444russian "aggression" in europe is a nazi delusion. stop falling for propaganda
>>2579445It's almost vibe-based that these people defend the imperialist state. Simply because it competes (capitalistically) with the west does not negate the fact it is still monopoly capitalist. Putin is only against the west because the west goes against his national interests.
>>2579447>I accept it's capitalist but not imperialistYou are not a socialist.
>>2579449you think they are unrelated?
>>2579451no its just the fact that its not monopoly capitalist
>>2579450Easy to say from Missouri
>>2579454But it is monopoly capitalist.
Polymarket has become such a menace these days
>>2579457which russian monopolies lack market competition in global trade?
>>2579452Glowies shitting up the Venezuela thread with bullshit about Russia is indicative of a coming war with Venezuela, yes.
Anybody caught whining about dead Americans or against Maduro will obviously catch a ban, so another strategy is needed.
>>2579461i mean i am the one that brought it up but these retards cant seem to understand that it is wall street and the bank of london working on behalf of exxon and bp vs the rest of the world
not like the rest of the world acts like it either though
>>2579434>All capitalist states are imperialist.So venezuela
is imperialist???
>>2579460If the ten largest Russian companies account for over 41% of the nations GDP it is very obviously monopoly capitalist. The scale of their oil gas and fertiliser sectors which are integral to the global economy adds to its monopoly sector, which added to European imperialism through the energy crisis.
>>2579467>If the ten largest Russian companies account for over 41% of the nations GDP it is very obviously monopoly capitalist. are you sure that is what monopoly capitalist means?
>oil gas and fertiliser sectors can you point to me in the text where commodity export constitutes the merger of banking and industry into finance capital?
>seething about oil and gas exports
How far the definition of imperialism has fallen.
Trump confirms conversation with Venezuela's Maduro
WASHINGTON, Nov 30 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump confirmed on Sunday that he had spoken with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, but did not provide details on what the two leaders discussed.
"I don't want to comment on it. The answer is yes," Trump said when asked if he had spoken with Maduro. He was speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One.
US gave Venezuela’s Maduro chance to leave country – senator
The United States has offered Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro the chance to leave his country for Russia or elsewhere, a Republican senator said Sunday, amid heightened fears of imminent US military action.
President Donald Trump sharply escalated his threats against Venezuela by warning Saturday that the country’s airspace should be considered “closed,” while the US military maintains a significant presence in the region.
Though Trump has not publicly threatened to use force against Maduro, he said in recent days that efforts to halt Venezuelan drug trafficking “by land” would begin “very soon.”
Maduro has said he views the US military presence in the Caribbean as a precursor to regime change.
“By the way, we gave Maduro an opportunity to leave. We said he could leave and go to Russia or he could go to another country,” Markwayne Mullin, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told CNN’s “State of the Union” talk show.
>>2579473>The United States has offered Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro the chance to leave his country for Russia or elsewhere, a Republican senator said Sunday, amid heightened fears of imminent US military action.Well… thanks for confirming those fears.
How nice to see the start of a war… Again.
>>2579448Why would that change anything?
>>2579508You think German and British imperialism in the past was over markets to sell their
coal to, or actual finished products? Is raw resource export a sign of a developed or an exploited country?
>>2579434>To defend the Russian state and Putin uncritically is to defend imperialism.they'll ignore the part where you said uncritically and pretend you said "at all" instead
>>2579512Very much a developed one, if of course that resource is controlled by the bourgeoisie of that nation and not a foreign one.
>>2579446Yeah, Russia is very rich, currently the 11th nation by GDP on the planet
Also
>>2579442>>2579454> As for the financial sector, even the Central Bank of Russia in 2018 in its analytical report stated that the Russian banking sector is a “monopoly or oligopoly with a competitive environment” [8]. In particular, in the segment of lending and deposits of individuals, Sberbank is among the leading players in 83 out of 85 regions of the country, and VTB is in 68. In lending and raising funds of organizations, “Sber” occupies a leading position in 82 subjects, and VTB in 61. In addition, other banks — Gazprombank and Rosselkhozbank — also play a significant role in providing these services.https://web.archive.org/web/20220617161136/https://us.politsturm.com/is-russia-imperialist/#Monopolies >>2579514Name another developed country like that, then.
>>2579517The United States prior to the 1970s
god help the people of venezuela. the USAnians are coming.
>>2579512But why would that change anything?
Russia is also a very rich nation with lots of capital exports
>>2579515 >>2579442 >>2579524You're a dumb fucking tool or a disgusting snake, upset that Russia actually recovered from the "shock therapy". "Gas station with nukes" narrative ended right when they started fighting back against NATO encirclement.
>>2579425>who have no experience living in EuropeWhat does experience living in Europe change? What has Russia done to any European country? Send a sternly worded letter after the local nazis topple another WW2 monument?
>>2579530>Russia recovered from the shock therapyBut it's still monopoly capitalist lol. What don't you understand?
>>25795371. You don't understand what "monopoly capitalism" means or why it's bad.
2.You present a binary where the only way to not be imperialist is to be imperialized. Christcuckery at its finest.
>>2579515>politsturmfrom the people who brought you "israel and palestine is an inter-imperialist conflict"
>>2579543The only way to not be imperialist is to not be capitalist.
>>2579513that is pretty clearly what All capitalist states are imperialist means
>>2579559No it doesn't. An imperialist state can still create better outcomes for the revolutionary movement.
>>2579543>You present a binary where the only way to not be imperialist is to be imperialized. no their position is that being imperialized is "participating in the global capitalist system" and is therefore imperialist. comes from KKE bullshit cope about the "imperialist pyramid" to excuse their electoralist bullshit
>>2579561actually it cant and you would know that if you knew what imperialism means
>>2579563Imperialist rivalries creates revolutionary conditions. Or, in the case of this war, not only does a major imperialist bloc lose considerable global influence but a fraction of a repressive regime gets overtaken by a regime that at the very least tolerates the trade union and socialist movement.
>>2579564imperialism profits from monopoly rent where developing capitalism profits from developing productive forces. imperialist rivalries destroy productive forces and are regressive not progressive. the entire reason developing countries tolerate trade union and socialist movements is because they are not imperialist. socialism is a direct threat to imperialist profits and the whole reason for extraterritorial expansion under stagnating monopolies is because they are in direct open contradiction with the domestic working class. the only other opportunity for profit under overdeveloped conditions is to cut wages. thats the entire dynamic between imperialism and fascism being two sides of the same colonial coin directed outwards or inwards.
>>2579571You heard it here first boys. America is not imperialist.
>>2579564instead what creates the revolutionary conditions is exactly the lack of imperialism on the part of national liberation struggles against imperialism
>>2579572how is this level of illiteracy even possible
>>2579603>bloodgasm revisionist garbage
>>2579456>Easy to say from MissouriBold aren't you. Let's guess and say you are from the Butthurt Belt
>>2579635
revisionist here means tankies instead of baby boilers
the guy trump picked in honduras is likely to win
>El Consejo Nacional Electoral de Honduras dio a conocer los primeros resultados de las elecciones presidenciales de este domingo, que ubican en primer lugar al candidato Nasry Asfura con un 40,6 % de los votos, con el 34,25 % de las actas escrutadas.
>En segundo lugar se ubica Salvador Nasralla, del Partido Liberal, con el 38,7 % de los votos, seguido por la candidata del oficialismo Rixi Moncada, con un 19,6 %.
anyone have any explanation as to why the trump effect is causing conservative candidates to lose across the anglosphere and to a certain extent across europe yet it's the opposite in latin america?
>>2579792>anyone have any explanation as to why the trump effect is causing conservative candidates to lose across the anglosphere and to a certain extent across europe yetI would argue this is a false view, tbh.
>>2579792Imagine being MAGA, having to campaign twice now on Trump being a super genius chess player and then retreating into bad-advisor apologetics when he's in power.
>>2579473>We said he could leave and go to Russia or he could go to another countrylol, the US happy to add another overthrown leader to the Cuckler collection.
>>2579792because latin america generally likes trump. look at their approval ratings for the invasion of venezuela, south americans support it more than north americans do
oops tagged the wrong post, meant for
>>2579982>>2580021what a shit graph, would be nice if it broke it down per country - typical burger reich himmler tier source
>>2579792Lots of far right "trumpist" parties are gaining huge leads in polls in yurop, you just don't know what you are talking about
>>2579691as awesome as the webm is, it's a movie, and misrepresenting lenin position
>>2580040white people and propaganda spook
decades of dictatorial amerilard slop turned the average latam brain into pudding, thanks god all those boomers are soon dying
>>2580049>this time the american intervention will bring peace instead of 100,000's of dead proleshow cucked are latinams jesus christ
>>2580029the lost in the netherlands, uk, romania and norway
>>2580049smells like propaganda bs tbh
>>2580049imagine believing msm polls
>>2580426imagine being against this. reactionaries are not human.
🇻🇪Stand with Venezuela!🇻🇪
>>2580791Waria Glowrina Machudo
>>2580791this is from ben norton's youtube channel geopolitical economy report if you want the original with audio
>>2580791>>2580981this person looks like a demon from hell
>>2578900>ukrainethat's a product of the collapse of the USSR. there's nothing wrong with the ukrainian SSR, nor would there ever have been if the CPSU had not become revisionist.
>israelnot remotely what lenin means by an oppressed nation. russian jews, who genuinely were repressed under tsarism in lenin's time, got the autonomous oblast anyway. "Israel" is just a settler colony on top of the oppressed nation of Palestine.
>>2580791this creature got the nobel peace prize, btw
>>2581052
Does it matter? If there was ever proof that prize was pointless theres that.
>>2581051Mods, ban him for misogyny
>>2580426Is this his version of the Trump jig
>>2581529
yes
>>2581529
>Does venezuela has a chance?
To survive as a sovereign state? Yeah.
To retaliate proportionately? No chance whatsoever unless Xi and Putin are uncharacteristically cooking something.
>>2580426>right on the eve of being bombed the fuck out with untold civilian casualties at risk and at the cusp of something that can destabilize the entire region for a decade>acting like it's a fucking partyPlz tell me this isnt recent. He really is a fucking retarded bus driver if that's the case.
>>2581053it's not pointless at all, it's handed out by norway's reigning politicians and a good indicator of how norway (and by extension, europe) is oriented ideologically and geopolitically
apart from the grander imperialist context here, the fact that trump didn't get the price but that an outspoken ally of him did is quite interesting in itself
>>2581529
I think they’ll survive.
If the U.S. commits boots on the ground it will be another quagmire like Afghanistan. I don’t think they’re ready for that.
>>2581529
Depends on if they're going to keep being isolated by the US and if an actual internal coup is happening. I give it about a 60% chance they can make it
>>2581576gdp isn't the same as productive forces, you paying for your monthly muscle mommy only fans sub does not increase prouctive forces, sorry
>>2579792>honduras>39.9% to 39.9% lmao
>>2579792>to lose across the anglosphere and to a certain extent across europeAFD is Germany is stronger than ever despite Elmo and Trump endorsing them
so apparently the guy who got trump to back the rightist candidate in honduras was an argentinian named fernado cerimedo who has also worked with bolsonaro, milei and the new rightist president of bolivia, rodrigo paz:
https://contracorriente.red/2025/11/27/fernando-cerimedo-el-asesor-tras-el-post-de-trump-que-se-le-adelanto-a-nasralla/this makes me wonder why are rightist latin american lobbyists so prominent now? a coincidence of circumstances?
>>2581631>a coincidence of circumstances?CIA
>>2581614Iraq is not degenerate country like Japan or Russia, they watch no porn and are real workers in oil fields, and they even allow communist china to own them (thanks to the American invasion making dengist market reform!)
Here is another example of US internationalism building productive forces
>>2581639No disagreements with your implication, but can you stop shitting the thread?
>>2581529
if the psuv can survive the first 3 days then they win the war
it will come down to the question if they are honestly and earnestly willing to arm the working class. if they prove they are willing to resist then china and russia can supply them indefinitely though colombia and brazil
>>2581672>arm the working classwhat incentives does the working class have to defend the psuv?
why do you think military men don't have their weapons when they're physically close to maduro?
>>2581639resource extraction or selling cash crops can increase gdp but it's still not the same as productive forces. western financial outlets boast of how much guyana's GDP has grown but that has mostly been in extractive industries: mining is now 40.6% of GDP Oil/gas is 32.7% ExxonMobil is profiting. a small handful of guyanese elites benefit, but not average people; 48.4% live in poverty and life expectancy has stagnated. productive forces is not the act of extracting and selling but the improvement of tools, machinery, labor skills, scientific knowledge to increase innovation, organizational knowledge, etc. extracting oil mainly uses existing equipment, often concentrate capital in rent-seeking sectors, does not improve the technological base of the economy, can cause resource curse effects that hold back industrial development
now, resource extraction can contribute to productive forces if revenues are reinvested into education, manufacturing, infrastructure, R&D or the sector develops advanced extraction technologies, engineering capabilities, logistics systems, etc, and hopefully, it isn't the only sector that is developing.
gdp growth = how much you produced this year.
productive forces growth = how much better tools, knowledge, innovation, infrastracture, etc you could produce next year
>>2581698Aren't those mostly owned by china?
>>2579471>can you point to me in the text where commodity export constitutes the merger of banking and industry into finance capital?<Financial Capital<Speaking about the merger of banking capital with industrial capital and the emergence of financial capital and financial oligarchy as their basis, we must point out that in relation to Russian reality, this process is carried out in two ways.<Firstly, the traditional way that appeared in world practice in the late XIX – early XX centuries was the emergence of subsidiary banks on the basis of monopolistic industrial enterprises.<Examples of such financial capital in Russia are modern Gazprombank JSC, which is a “daughter” of Gazprom PJSC, All-Russian Regional Development Bank JSC, which is a “daughter” of Rosneft NC PJSC, Otkritie Bank, which is a “daughter” of Lukoil PC.<Secondly, by creating banking ecosystems. The emergence of banking ecosystems reflects a new round of development of ways to merge capital.<Examples of such a new form of financial capital in Russia are the banking ecosystems of the bank “Sber”, “Tinkoff-Bank”, PJSC “VTB”, which include not only banking services, but also services for housing and communal services, insurance, food delivery networks, consulting, logistics, air/and railway transportation, taxis and even the film industry.<However, financial capital does not change the qualitative content of this. There is a simple replacement of one part of the economy, i.e. industrial capital, with another, i.e. the service sector, which makes up the bulk of the modern economy (55.8%) [11].<Despite the fact that representatives of the financial oligarchy put forward the slogan “The client is at the center of the ecosystem”, the already overgrown monopolistic banking sector seeks to monopolize and commercialize all aspects of human life. It seeks to control it by imposing on a person a certain system of values, at the center of which is consumption, and not the creative development of the individual.<The influence of domestic financial capital extends to industry. The result of the merging of banking capital and industry is the emergence of financial and industrial groups, holdings and conglomerates (Alfa Group, Alisher Usmanov’s structures, etc.).<Russian banks are also taking control of industrial companies. This happens both indirectly, through lending, settlement, issuance of securities and the role of brokers, and directly: through direct ownership of companies.<For example, under the management (ownership) of the bank “Sber” are the automobile company “DerWeis” and “Southern Automobile Group”. “Uralmashzavod” and “United Machine-Building Plant” are under the management of Gazprombank JSC.https://web.archive.org/web/20220617161136/https://us.politsturm.com/is-russia-imperialist/#Financial_CapitalEven if their take on Palestine is shit, this article is just really good for putting together all this information
>>2581699
they wont do shit
>>2581710and you cant separate their analysis of palestine from their analysis of imperialism because they exact same bs they use to call russia imperialist is why they think palestine is also imperialist(and iran, cuba, dprk along with literally every society except uncontacted tribes)
Trump just mentioned land strikes.
Maduro: "They can't say I have weapons of mass destruction, nobody would believe it. So they invent Hollywood stories where I'm the villain and they're the heroes, sending tall, blond guys to hunt down the Latino villain.
But people know the truth: the real villain is the one who writes the script."
I wish Venezuela had a weapon of mass destruction.
>>2581631because the pink tide failed to address the problems of wealth inequality. they could ride the commodity boom wave to avoid the problems of the 2008 financial crises but when the boom ended they were left in a rut. The latam lumpenbourgeoise no longer benefited in helping conciliatory social democrats now that there was a profitablity crises.
>>2577798
>They already have all the SAM sites mapped out and even those in bunkers since they have been using starlink and palantir to track locations of vehicles around venezuela
what if their data is dogshit?
> I truly hate the way war is conducted in the west. No honor, no heroic fight,
why would the ruling class be "honorable" or "heroic" in its desperate scramble to maintain imperialism? The point is to be as ruthless and sociopathic as possible. Not to make things "fair" or "honorable." The entire purpose is to keep things as unfair as possible for as long as possible, so that they can die in their bunkers at the age of 150 in their medbeds with their sex slaves gathered around them after the surface has been made uninhabitable by climate change.
>No honor, no heroic fight, just turkey shoot police operations. Fucking shit show. I wish america fought wars like russia, with massive casulaties and manliness
I'll go to jail before I do a damn thing for uncle sam
Petro status?
>>2581699
No, everyone down here fucking hates Venezuela, thanks to the migrant/refugee crisis they cause (millions of people escaping + export of the VZ extremely violent bands)
>>2581576>>2581639Are you gonna switch off tor and then cry like a bitch like in your threads here:
>>2580376>>2580201Or are you gonna praise Unit 731 again?
Mexican President, Claudia Sheinbaum: "We support Venezuela in the face of US aggression"
The Mexican president, Claudia Sheinbaum, reaffirmed Mexico's support for Venezuela's sovereignty and rejected any military intervention, following the new actions ordered by Donald Trump, including the closure of Venezuelan airspace.
>>2581982>No, everyone down here fucking hates Venezuela, thanks to the migrant/refugee crisis they cause (millions of people escaping + export of the VZ extremely violent bands)Ah yes, the "making the economy scream" school of economics and sociology. So many Spaniards subscribe to this as well, we are a big recipient of Venezuelan refugees. And we are officially hosting the old guy, the Machado stand-in US glowie whose name I can't be bothered to google right now.
Between this and looking the other way while Israeli weapons use our ports freely (not to speak of NATO genocide accomplice ships) it's a wonder the government hasn't gone full NATOid nazi, in public, yet. We have like a few culture war wedge issues going on repeat for the last year and people are just fucking dumb to never question anything that the TV doesn't show. It's like a holding pattern in-between across the spectrum embezzling and NATO whoring.
Every cycle of wokescolding and culture-war in lieu of politics makes the local crop of atlanticist fascist so much stronger and normalized. Give it another election cycle and we may be begging for our own Machado.
I hope this is a nothingburger, because I don't want more Venezuelans to be murdered by the US ghouls.
>>2581055That's not misogyny. I think when anons call out actual misogyny (usually in siberia incel thread) you get butthurt so you pretend to be "concerned" about "misogyny" in other threads because you don't know or care what actual misogyny is.
>>2581051the glowbell piss prize is a reactionary imperialist circle jerk and always has been. Kissinger got that shit.
>>2580791May she suffer the same fate as Jeanine Anez, or worse.
>>2582137
>>2582130
Cool story, Langley.
>>2581639>gdp>productivitytop lel
>>2582191
cool story mossad
>>2582191
<le basket case economy
found the neolib.
>>2582137
>Lmao, the PSUV won't last more than a couple days.
They lasted for more than 20 years
>The reason they don't arm the population is because the population will turn on them immediately and overthrow the PSUV and lynch them in the streets. Like 85% of the population despise the PSUV and Maduro and especially collectivos and CLAP staff.
And you evidence is??? Wait why is maduro arming the local populace?? This will fall flat in my face and ruin my mossad propaganda
>Venezuela's economy has been nuked completely since 2008 due to a mix of lack of diversification and mass rampant corruption
I wonder why most of the shit that happened came after obama designed venezuela as a human rights abuser nation and implemented sanctions, which DESTROYED ITS ECONOMY in 2014, and not in 2008, by 2013, at best years of dilma government, venezuela was above it on IDH
>Venezuela is not a Social Democratic/Socialist state, it's a hyper-corrupt military dictatorship run by a military apparatchik bourgiousie who sit themselves in state positions to loot everything.
WOAH, SO THOSE MILITARY APPARATCHNIKS WERE LOWER RANK OFFICERS THAT WERE SOCIALIST? MIND BLOWING
tldr. KYS now
nice try cia guy
>Venezuelan economy is based on narcotics
Overplayed your hand there, agent.
Now shut the fuck up and start the invasion. You dumb fucking losers haven't even invaded Yemen, and Houthis still control the Red Sea, invaliding USN's entire reason for existence and wasting all the trillions spent on it.
>duh, let's start shit with Venezuela
>heavy sour crude is where it is at!
>>2582208
C'mon, gusano pussies. Do something.
>>2582208
>The nuke happened in 2008 bro, even Venezuelaanalysis agrees with this. Venezuelan diversification efforts all implode during the GFC and the country returns to oil dependency.
It didnt even happened, all stupid statements
in 2011, venezuela had a higher IDH than brazil, by 2025 the venezuelan economy lost half and most of its GDP. You cannot argue that the venezuelan crisis started in 2008 using a stupid assumptive analysis that tries to link the 2008 crisis with oil depedency
>>2582213
Everyone who says "hyper-corrupt military dictatorship that at best runs at most a dogshit social democracy" is a glowie, yes.
Consult with your station chief on how to reply to people that actually remember Guaido and conservatives boycotting the elections, because Maduro is actually popular, and they would lose, so they shid and fard to get their way.
>>2582217correction, 2015* not 2025
>>2582242
that achieves nothing
>>2582242
scamming american tourists is third worldist praxis
based street vendors are fighting the real battle
>>2582213
>it is not a good look for the left
lol who gives a fuck the US will bomb innocent people you fucking retard
take this "muh optics" bullshit to /USApol/ and then kill yourself
>>2582243How do you know?
>>2582260wow someone was really trying to glow it up in here and failing, huh. Hope they got fired for incompetence.
>>2582149NVKETRVKE (a truth nuke about nukes)
any updates?
So the USA is just gonna do a blockade and scare the money until the Venezuelan economy collapses for good?
IDK how the USA expects to implement all that Machado stuff. When the people they intend to put in charge are SO incompetent, that they couldn't even get a mandate with the full support of the USA waging economic war and and now military as well.
And then presumably they intend to do a "decommunization" plan for Chavismo as well. And deport "remigrate" that ~1M Venezuelans back, why not. And this is all going to happen without the military backing the gusano regime or without having to spill rivers of blood in lieu of the popular mandate the gusanos clearly don't have… and will have even less once the bombing starts.
>>2581906I like her large breasts and solidarity with gaza.
>>2583239The military supports whoever feeds them. They don't have anything guaranteed without Maduro.
>>2581576>GDP grew 5 times after a wholesale bombing of the country and tens of millions of refugeesClown graph and clown metric
>>2583333People who die or emigrate from a country during war no longer count in postwar GDP statistics. And if their abandoned wealth is inherited/seized by those who stay alive and inside the country, it can give the appearance of GDP per capita increasing after a war, even though the GDP increase was the result of devastation rather than increased production. So yeah. The metric can be misleading, especially if you don't adjust for purchasing power parity, and don't take into account the context.
>>2583337It's GDP, not per capita GDP.
Face it: GDP is a clown metric, because it shows growth during literal genocides and when whole cities get erased.
>>2583338> GDP is a clown metric, because it shows growth during literal genocides and when whole cities get erased.I was agreeing with you. just adding nuance. You're right that it's not per capita. I'm saying even if it were per capita, and even if it were adjusted for PPP, it would still give the same false appearance, because it would count the wealth transfer from the dead/emigrants to the living people inside the country as "economic activity." I'm elaborating on WHY it's a clown metric.
>>2583245Red in the Torygraph yesterday that Xi is doing purges of the Chinese armed forces because of 'childhood trauma'. Really crazy stuff.
trump has to TACO on this one right? he's despo to make his long term friendship with his friend, confidant, pimp, and occasional bull jeffery epstein go away and this is working for now, but his base hates it. as soon as this half-baked invasion hits a snag jeff's gonna be right there waiting for him. venezuela isn't going to be a pushover. everyone in the favela has a picture of chavez on his wall. the US has never failed to fail when confronted with an insurgency. the favela, the jungle, the mountains every corner of venezuela is perfect terrain to swallow a patrol without a trace.
he's unpopular now, bodybags aren't going to help. he's gotta know he's cooked.
>>2583351I don't understand how china prosecuting corrupt government officials and corrupt businessmen is perceived as a weakness. look at the west and how successive corruption scandals have completely eroded trust in our governments, prestige abroad, all of the infrastructure and services that feed growth and wellbeing.
fuck, look at israel. corruption got them into a soft civil war, then into a genocide, now both, and it's ultimately going to cost them their state.
the other day there were fires in hong kong. it's been nearly a decade since the grenfel tower fires and not a single person has been prosecuted. in hong kong the party started cuffing the developers the next day.
>>2583366I would say 60% chance he has to TACO for practical reasons, 30% chance of a single nothingburger strike followed by retaliatory nothingburger strike followed by ceasefire like in Iran, but there's a 10% chance that he and his cabinet go on an insane streak and genuinely believe they can score a quick and easy victory like in Iraq.
>Brazil Billionaire Flew to Venezuela to Urge Maduro to Step Downeven international porky want maduro gone
https://archive.ph/o55td >>2583571why are you surprised by that
>>2583571>Joesly Batista>Some Meat Packer In Brazilliterally who tf is this and why should maduro listen to him? gaddafi played nice with the burgers and got sodomized with the bayonets of reactionaries as his reward
>>2583571>even international porky want maduro goneShocking turn of events. Venezuelans are condemned to fascist dictatorship and death squads if they submit to USA imperialism.
>>2583577He's a Brazilian power broker that owns capital in the USA and pays homage to Trump
>JBS owns Colorado-based chicken producer Pilgrim’s Pride Corp., which gave $5 million to Trump’s inaugural committee, the largest single donation. JBS this year won Securities and Exchange Commission approval to list its shares in New York, overcoming fierce opposition from environmental groups and advocacy investors over concerns about past bribery scandals involving the Batista brothers and the company’s alleged role in cattle-driven deforestation of the Amazon. >>2583577>The Batista family’s ties to Venezuela go back at least a decade. JBS and Maduro years ago negotiated a $2.1 billion deal to supply Venezuela with meat and chicken at a time when the nation was experiencing acute food shortages and hyperinflation. The contract was facilitated by Venezuelan socialist hardline politician and current Interior Minister Diosdado Cabello.oh and he has a relationship with maduro and venezuela
>>2583584sounds like a porky who capitalized on US sanctions by taking advantage of venezuela during a time of desparation
UNCRITICAL SUPPORT FOR MADURO, VENEZUELA AND CHAVIZMO
The more you learn about the politics and especially the foreign policy of the United States, the more you see how extremely hypocritical it is. How the US government says something while doing the opposite. We saw one of the clearest examples of this hypocrisy this December when US President Donald Trump pardoned and released from prison one of the worst drug traffickers on earth, the former dictator of Honduras named Juan Orlando Hernandez. Now, when Juan Orlando was the dictator of Honduras from 2014 until 2022, he was a loyal right-wing US ally who obediently served US interests in Latin America and allowed the US military to operate large military bases inside Honduras. Yet throughout this time he was operating one of the largest drug trafficking operations on the planet. The US government admitted this because even though Hernandez was a loyal US ally, he was flooding the US with cocaine which was of course exacerbating the drug crisis in the US. So the US Department of Justice later convicted him and sentenced Hernandez to 45 years in prison for distributing more than 400 tons of cocaine and also trafficking machine guns. The US Department of Justice ruling noted that Hernandez was quote at the center of one of the largest and most violent drug trafficking conspiracies in the world. His conspirators were armed with machine guns and destructive devices, including AK-47s and grenade launchers, which they used to protect their massive cocaine loads as they transited across Honduras on their way to the United States. And Hernandez even worked with the notorious Mexican cartel leader, El Chapo Gusman. El Chapo gave a million dollar bribe to the brother of this Honduran dictator to get support from the Honduran regime. ==Today, Trump continues to support the worst drug traffickers in the region. He just released one of them from prison. Meanwhile, Trump is waging a war against Venezuela, which he claims is about stopping "drug trafficking networks" in scare quotes, because, at this point, you have to be a child to actually believe this nonsense.
Topics
0:00 Trump pardons notorious drug trafficker
2:16 US support for Juan Orlando Hernández (JOH)
2:59 Trump threatens war on Venezuela
5:45 Journalist addresses Trump's drug hypocrisy
7:04 (CLIP) Trump blames Biden for drug arrest
7:36 USA backed Honduran narco-regime
8:01 Coup in Honduras in 2009
9:04 Stolen elections of 2013 & 2017
10:33 Trump meddles in Honduras' 2025 election
14:13 Libre Party alleges fraud
14:59 Result transmission system changes votes
15:26 President Xiomara Castro warned of coup plot
17:03 No official winner declared in election
19:16 Very suspicious results
21:15 US-backed coups and fraud
21:54 US coups in Latin America
22:30 Honduras resists US imperialism
24:54 Outro
>>2583366>in hong kong the party started cuffing the developers the next day.yea, they're getting manslaughter. It's so similar it's been making me livid thinking of Grenfell.
>>2583245Torygraph today:
Maduro asked for $200m in deal with Trump to fleeVenezuela’s president asked to keep $200m of his private wealth, amnesty for his officials and safe harbour in a friendly country as part of a deal with Donald Trump to step down and flee, sources said.
Those familiar with a phone call between the two leaders told The Telegraph that the plan fell apart owing to Nicolas Maduro’s demands for a blanket amnesty for as many as 100 top officials.
During the 15-minute call, the two leaders also disagreed on how to set up a transitional government and on the location Mr Maduro would flee to from Venezuela.
Mr Trump suggested China or Russia, according to one source, while the Venezuelan president was intent on staying in the Western hemisphere, in a friendly country such as Cuba.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/12/03/maduro-trump-venezuela-president-surrender/ >Jacobin not on board with Venezuela invasion
>complete silence from every ""leftist"" org that got clapped by GrayZone for being NED funded
Damn… Trump cuts have been brutal, haven't they.
TACO
honestly this entire situation is just so blackpilling and completely exposes how mighty the bourgeois have gotten in the past years. their leader is a literal child rapist and theres nothing we can do. they have full power at this point
>>2584116idc what anyone says, I love this guy
>>2583713I love Karlbubu!
>>2585167
Dangerously based.
>>2585167
I know this. But this will potentially be a bit risky even for him because he'll essentially be reporting on people fighting back against US planes, ships and potentially even infantry.
>>2585181The JDPON will protect him.
You can tell Patrick is totally shot. His nerves are fucked.
>>2585181Real "John Ford at Midway" moment.
>>2585495can't coup-o the maduro
>>2585495Nothingburger chads we stay winning. The West stays a paper tiger
>>2585666After the release of national security guidelines im fairly certain its only about moving more military assets towards Venezuela. They put Latin America as first priority over threat of China.
>>2585697>>2585665>>2585537It may be too early to celebrate. They didn't just declare Latin America the #1 priority for nothing, right? They will probably move military hardware and personnel closer to Venezuela over the coming months.
>>2585703and tomorrow they will announce the additional bolivarian movilization and after that the supernumerary national defense plan and after that the …
when they could just arm the working class
>>2585705>They didn't just declare Latin America the #1 priority for nothing, right?Maybe, but the US is ruled by an irrationalistic cult that constantly does retarded shit for show, like liberation day.
>>2585717when you are the leader of your own AES country you can do that bro
<Ties
>>2585717>when they could just arm the working classThats what they're doing though?
>>2585717>when they could just arm the working classthey literally did retard
>>2585748>>2585752its a glowie talking point theyve been spamming in this thread
>>2586091>The regulation has generated official support and strong criticism from opposition sectors who consider it an instrument of internal control.Here's hoping. May the gusano fucks be subjected to revolutionary terror.
>>2586138Hopefully, seems like it could be a strong tool for pushing the revolution internally:
>This legal structure guarantees a comprehensive defense that transcends the exclusively military sphere, extending to the social, economic, and internal order spheres. Its main objective is to consolidate peace, strengthen democracy, and ensure the integrity of the nation.<Article 15 establishes functions such as supporting military operations as required by the competent authorities and ensuring the continuity of productive activities and public servicesEtc. Good pretexts for purging the capitalists and etc.
>>2585757especially funny when you watch the video in the OP
>>2586330PS
Alternatively, we may also get those "I love seeing workers being killed by capitalist states!" posts in regards to the US and collaborators getting killed.
>>2586330Already happened and banned.
>>2586332Spoiler alert for the future? Maybe? I swear, it's all just trying to bait me into posting cum tributes on the aircraft carrier sinking.
>>2586396I don't think they'll let their precious aircraft carrier get that close, because if it gets seriously damaged it's actually game over. From what I've seen they're just going to use unmanned boats, they've deployed a bunch of "Saildrones" around there recently no?
>>2586332>"I love seeing workers being killed by capitalist states!"Having Machado go around doing interviews and shit, saying the quiet part aloud with that ecstasy of hers she gets, describing the most ghoulish things cannot possibly have helped. Like, they were doing fine selling the "Venezuela is a police state and the people yearn for freedom" shtick. That way eventually the violence to regime change can be justified and they can escalate. They can take sides and claim to be righteous.
But now they have the "Nobel Peace Prize" lady, telling everybody it's about how prifitable stealing Venezuelan natural resources will be *for the USA* and her being a US plant and *loving* Israel. Then she starts yapping about Maduro being Hamas and Hezbollah controlling the Caribbean drug trade and Venezuela stealing the US elections and then some more off the cuff shit about Cuba as this shadowy puppeteer behind all the left in the continent… concentrated gusano stuff that loses the normies, even if they really really want to believe.
Baffling how the USA played this
>>2586416The got this guy "now":
Hugo Carvajal(This guy will literally say anything about anyone to save his neck)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Carvajal
>Hugo Armando Carvajal Barrios, nicknamed El Pollo ("The Chicken")[1] (born 1960), is a Venezuelan diplomat and retired general. He was the head of the military intelligence in Venezuela during Hugo Chávez's government, from July 2004 to December 2011.[2] Carvajal was arrested in Spain on 12 April 2019 based on an arrest warrant from the United States for 2011 drug trafficking charges.[3][4] >After the Spanish courts approved his extradition to the United States Carvajal went into hiding. On 26 March 2020, the U.S. Department of State offered $10 million for information to bring him to justice in relation to drug trafficking and narco-terrorism.[5] >In 2021 he was arrested in Madrid[6] and was extradited two years later to the United States.[7] In 2025, he pled guilty to all criminal charges.[8][9] https://dallasexpress.com/national/exclusive-former-maduro-spy-chiefs-letter-to-trump-seeks-to-expose-narco-terrorist-war-against-u-s/LETTER FROM HUGO CARVAJAL BARRIOS TO PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
United States of America
December 2, 2025
Dear Mr. President Trump and The People of the United States,
My name is Hugo Carvajal Barrios. For many years, I was a high-ranking member of the Venezuelan regime. I was a three-star general trusted by both Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro and served as Director of Military Intelligence and a Deputy in the National Assembly. Today, I sit in an American prison because I voluntarily plead guilty to the crimes charged against me: a narco-terrorism conspiracy. I write to atone by telling the full truth so that the United States can protect itself from the dangers I witnessed for so many years.
I publicly broke with the Maduro regime in 2017 and fled my country, knowing that I face criminal charges in the United States. In doing so, I became their enemy. Knowing the risks, I acted with the strongest conviction to dismantle Maduro’s criminal regime and bring freedom to my country. Today, I see the need to address the American people about the reality of what the Venezuelan regime truly is—and why President Trump’s policies are not only correct, but absolutely necessary to the United States’ national security.
1 Narco-Terrorism I personally witnessed how Hugo Chavez’s government became a criminal organization that is now run by Nicolás Maduro, Diosdado Cabello, and other senior regime officials.
The purpose of this organization, now known as the Cartel of the Suns is to weaponize drugs against the United States. The drugs that reached your cities through new routes were not accidents of corruption nor just the work of independent traffickers; they were deliberate policies coordinated by the Venezuelan regime against the United States.
This plan was suggested by the Cuban regime to Chávez in the mid-2000s and has been successfully executed with help from FARC, ELN, Cuban operatives, and Hezbollah. The regime has provided weapons, passports, and impunity for these terrorist organizations to operate freely from Venezuela against the United States.
2 Tren de Aragua I was present when decisions were made to organize and weaponize criminal gangs across Venezuela to protect the regime—among them the group known as Tren de Aragua. Chávez ordered the recruitment of criminal leaders inside and outside prisons to defend “the revolution” in exchange for impunity. After Chávez died, Maduro expanded this strategy by exporting criminality and chaos abroad to target Venezuelan political exiles and artificially reduce crime statistics within Venezuela. Gang leaders were instructed to send thousands of members out of the country. This was coordinated through the Ministry of Interior, the Ministry of Prisons, the National Guard, and national police forces. Tren de Aragua became the most effective and fastest growing.
When the Biden–Harris open-border policy became widely known, they seized the opportunity to send these operatives into the United States. They now have obedient, armed personnel on American soil. To finance their operations, they were explicitly instructed to continue kidnapping, extorting, and killing. Every crime they commit on your soil is an act ordered by the regime.
Counterintelligence and Espionage Against the United States
I was present when Russian intelligence came to Caracas to propose to Hugo Chávez the tapping of submarine internet cables that connect most of South America and the Caribbean islands with the United States for the purpose of penetrating United States Government communications.
In 2015, I warned Maduro that allowing Russian intelligence to build and run a secret listening post on La Orchila Island would one day invite American bombs. He ignored me.
For twenty years, the Venezuelan regime sent spies into your country—many are still there, some disguised as members of the Venezuelan opposition. Cuban intelligence showed me their networks inside your naval bases on the East Coast. They bragged about having sent thousands of spies over decades, some now career politicians.
U.S. diplomats and CIA officers were paid to assist Chávez and Maduro in remaining in power. These Americans acted as spies for Cuba and Venezuela, and some remain active to this day.
3 Smartmatic and Your Elections Smartmatic was born as an electoral tool of the Venezuelan regime but soon derived into a tool to help keep the regime stay in power forever. I know this because I placed the head of IT of the National Electoral Council (CNE) in his position, and he reported directly to me. The Smartmatic system can be altered—this is a fact. This technology was later exported abroad, including to the United States. Regime operatives maintain relationships with election officials and voting-machine companies inside your country. I do not claim that every election is stolen, but I state with certainty that elections can be rigged with the software – and has been used to do so.
People of the United States, make no mistake about the threat posed by allowing a narco-terrorist organization to roam freely in the Caribbean and throughout Latin America, doing everything possible to harm the American people—to finance anti-Americanism across the continent, and to facilitate the operations of other terrorist organizations and enemies of the United States within Venezuela and now within your borders.
The regime I served is not merely hostile—it is at war with you, using drugs, gangs, espionage, and even your own democratic processes as weapons. President Trump’s policies against the Maduro criminal regime are not just justified, but necessary and proportionate to the threat. He may even be underestimating what the regime is prepared to do to hold onto power. They have contingency plans for every extreme scenario to ensure they never relinquish control.
I absolutely support President Trump’s policy towards Venezuela, because it is in self-defense and he is acting based on the truth. I remain ready to provide additional details about these matters to the United States government.
Hugo Carvajal Barrios
United States of America
December 2, 2025
another day, another TACO
Nothing ever happens (thank you China)
>>2586432>For twenty years, the Venezuelan regime sent spies into your country—many are still there, some disguised as members of the Venezuelan opposition. Cuban intelligence showed me their networks inside your naval bases on the East Coast. They bragged about having sent thousands of spies over decades, some now career politicians.>U.S. diplomats and CIA officers were paid to assist Chávez and Maduro in remaining in power. These Americans acted as spies for Cuba and Venezuela, and some remain active to this day.I believe this, historically Cuba has been good at this, I personally think also Trump's people cutting out the diplomats and foreign office types is in part informed by paranoia wrt to Cuban and other spies/informers being utilised to diffuse the situation.
>>2587117sometimes the grift must go on.
akin to soviet historians making shit up for academic respectability while admitting this is not true
even for gusanos and liberals, the vote talley from the opposition party is dubious and probably made up
>>2586416They've fallen far since the glory days of Dulles and Kissinger, or even the heyday of colour revolutions during the Obama era.
So is the war happening or just another nothing burger?
>>2587325The US keep sending strategic assets to the Carribean and SAYING they're reeeeeeally gonna do it using fucking war on terror esque language.
>>2586416Nah, these people don't bother with such insignificant details. Otherwise they would have noticed that Zelensky ran on a peace and reconciliation platform or that western Ukraine is the part of the country that is consistently different politically. It's just that there is no war yet and their attention span ran out.
I want a Cucker Carlson Maduro interview but I know it wont happen.
>>2587325At this point it seems like the admin is having a hard time managing its priority targets and the burden of commitments across multiple theaters. They're trying to wind down involvement in Ukraine, but the problem there is if they just cut and run its a diplomatic disaster and threatens to cede a total victory to Russia as the Ukr gov refuses to negotiate even in the face of a progressive collapse of the front line.
Israel is also acting aggressively in Lebanon and Syria and they definitely want to resume fighting Iran, and so the US has to be ready to respond in case things go explosively sideways there. Syria itself is a seething cauldron where conflicting goals between Turkey and Israel are creating conditions which might lead to open conflict between them, and the encroachment of both is pissing of Syrians as they watch their country get carved up and colonized in real time. The real danger though is that Israel is a nuclear armed paper tiger, armed with the latest in weapons technology and headed by reckless psychopaths while being surrounded by much more populous neighbors and possessing no strategic depth. So the US
has to be Johnny-on-the-spot because of the very real possibility of Israel overcommitting to a conflict it can't win, things taking a catastrophic turn, and deciding to treat the region to a little nuclear hellfire.
More worrisome still is the growing influence of Russia and China in Africa. Isis is more or less a yanky proxy force and between Russian mercenary support, Chinese infrastructural development, and western militaries being shown the door by popular military governments, nato influence on the continent is becoming more and more tenuous while their need for access to cheap and plentiful resources on their terms grows by the day.
As for Washington itself, White House, Pentagon, et al, there seems to be real confusion about what problems to focus on and how exactly to deal with them. It seems like there are elements in the military that are at least uncomfortable about the notion of murdering civilians without at least the pretense of a legal military justification. They're in conflict with the meat heads like Hegseth that seem to have this vae victis "try and stop us" mentality, oblivious to the concerns from the people they want pulling the trigger that however shit shakes out that they might be prosecuted come the next administration. That's aside from all the jockeying and influence mongering among the admin from big brains at the think tanks arguing over this Venezuela adventure along with everything else, saying that it will be a disaster or a cakewalk, while the admin tries to figure out what it can do, what it wants to do, and needs to do, all with a potential economic disaster and severely negative opinion polls hanging over it.
In short, I guess you could say that, yes, it's happened, but in slow motion as all the necessary parts work against each other. But as other events within south America indicate, the US has definitely decided that the region has to be brought into line and recalcitrants like Venezuela and Cuba made examples of, but the current capacity and focus to make that happen by force just isn't there.
>>2586893>>2587117both those say maduro cheated, its just the first one has such a retarded obfuscating language its hard to decipher
why would you trust a usa professor part of their regime change campaign (which literally happen at every single one of their elections, and you can check who she thank : a bunch of gusanos actively involved in slandering venezuela and chavism) with no access to the actual material evidence and that couldnt be bothered to move her ass to the country is another question entirely
>>2587739Fair enough, I didn't finish the first one, I found it hard to care about voting machine and process mumbo-jumbo.
The line should be that Maduro staying in power undemocraticaly I'd currently better than the alternative either way.
>>2587561>Syria itself is a seething cauldron where conflicting goals between Turkey and Israel are creating conditions which might lead to open conflict between themNah. Israel won't go into the north, turkey won't go into the south. Their goals in Syria are not mutualy exclusive.
>>2589116>The line should be that Maduro staying in power undemocraticaly I'd currently better than the alternative either way.no the line should be thats all this noise about cheating is an obvious cia psyop like they do literally every time, why the fuck would you concede their falsehoods?
>>2589153>ciaNah, every reactionary does this by instinct. No prompting needed. What's the earliest I can think of? Spanish Civil War 1936?
I don't care if Mamdani cheated, the important thing is that he won
>>2589787This is how you prepare for war.
>>2589799Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.
– Confucius
I watched liberal eagle and immediately regretted it.
>maintains state dept lies that the boats getting blown up are anything but fishing boats
>never approaches legality of regime change
>likens maduro to fmr american stooge saddam
>attempts to draw a box around this invasion as uniquely bad rather than correctly diagnose american imperialism
<why are they doing all of this jannie work? why sweep for the state dept?
>invited mark kelly on
>unlike he iraq/kuwait wars that were 100% justified and had no war crimes whatsoever…
>>2589787>>2590205more dance kino NOW!
>>2590210maduro aint a fat ass and he would absolutely pummel trump, so even if we entertained your childish wish for a duel to solve the US aggression of the venezuelan people as something possible in international relations, trump would obviously refuse
>>2590253>Dialectical Vegan Egoistrip the old guard nibbas
>>2590210Maduro would brutally molest his diaper-shitting ass tbh so I agree
Trump and Maduro are fucking oligophrenic, all I've seen since the beggining of this thread is just them dancing all the time, wheres the war sons of whores???
>>2590397It's not like Maduro would start it. Trump may have trusted too much the idiot that claimed the military would coup Maduro if he put pressure on, and Trump is stuck in a lose-lose scenario… Again.
>>2589787he looks quite flexible for his age. i'm 29 and my back and legs hurt all the time nowadays
>>2590397>he thinks it's going to happenngmi,they're just prepping for the eventual coup
Maria Machado just got her peace prize. I heard the most cynical liberal "please invade my country speech" I've ever heard. You know, typical non-serious neoliberal drivvel about hope and the victory of democracy and togetherness whilst saying regime change is happening within our life times. Anger inducing.
>>2589889>I watched liberal eagle and immediately regretted it.Same. Don't know anything about him but was utterly repulsed when he brought the general psycho on and lent him legitimacy.
>>2590859<Bombs please, oh moloch let me see burning fleshFixed that for them.
>>2591033>most Venezuelan oil goes to chinathis is what its all about, yes its about America looting and privatising, but it's also a desperate attempt to stop Chinese influence in "their pond".
>>2591053China's not going to just take this shit lying down, right? I know that the whole "le do nothing le win" meme and all that but I feel like the US outright using piracy to stop your oil imports warrants a response
>>2591058>China's not going to just take this shit lying down, right? I think it honestly depends. If this becomes a full-scale regime change operation, China could do what the Saudis did during the Yom Kippur War and totally rape the US economy because the Chinese have a monopoly on so much of the stuff the US use regularly. China will be directly affected by a regime change so its in its interest to fight back.
>>2591070
those weren't venezulean tankers though, clearly says they're iranian
>>2591033Is Venezuelan Oil traded in the Brent? Trump fucking up the oil market will result in gas prices going up.
The oil tanker was seized. The US Government will release an official announcement of the operation at some point later today. Trump admitted the oil is "ours" now. And he said, although he probably was lying through is teeth, that it was the largest oil tanker "ever seized".
>>2591270>Trump admitted the oil is "ours" now.Realistically, how much longer is the rest of the world going to tolerate America's bullshit after this? Like there's the US won't start facing consequences once we lose our global hegemon status..
Or maybe I'm being too hopeful.
>>2591301If the US say in the announcement that the oil was on its way to China, prepare for the shit to hit the fan.
>>2591304POLITICO are reporting Cuba:
<But a person familiar with the matter, granted anonymity to discuss the sensitive seizure, said the ship was en route to Cuba, where the state firm Cubametales was planning to sell it to Asian energy brokers. >>2591315God what if they want to regime change Cuba too?
>>2591316Thry do. The thinking is if they can take down Venezuela then Cuba (and Nicaragua) falls.
It is true that Cuba and Venezuela work closely together.
>>2591315happening cancelled then
So US is via their actions admitting they want total regime change purely to get at the oil.
I want total American death so bad sisters, but what can I even do to help when I don't live there?
>>2591350I live there and i'd prefer not to get killed for stupid shit my country does. Speaking of if the US and wider world order is collapsing, where should i move to?
>>2591369No one wants treatlerites, stay there and overthrow your overlords.
>>2591350>So US is via their actions admitting they want total regime change purely to get at the oil<via their actions Thry outright say it with their words if you bother to listen.
>>2591073judge is claiming the tanker was seized because it was used to smuggle iranian oil in the past
>>2591315doesn't cuba have electricity shortages because of a fuel shortage?
I am a bit out of the loop here. Is there any truth to the claim that Maduro's government is involved in drug trafficking?
>>2591389Oh come on. We all know she wasn't in the country.
>>2591396Yes. Venezuela sends lots of humanitarian aid boats to cuba so I am wondering also if this was one of them.
>>2591397No. It's a CIA fabrication, possibly based on pre-Chavez Venezuela's military involvement.
>>2591401Why do you think that?
>>2591403https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel_of_the_Suns
>The term Cartel of the Suns was first used in 1993 as a journalistic label following a political scandal involving Venezuelan military officials who were implicated in a CIA plot to smuggle cocaine into the United States in order to infiltrate Colombian cartels.How it started.
>It was alleged that officers of Hugo Chávez's Revolutionary Bolivarian Movement-200 who planned the 1992 Venezuelan coup d'état attempts had created a group that participated in drug trafficking known as the Cartel Bolivariano or Bolivarian Cartel.Obvious smearing of Chavez.
>>2591397Short answer:
It's as real as the Iraqi WMDs.
Long answer:
US cocaine is overwhelmingly produced in Colombia and then travels via either sea / Mexico into the US.
US fentanyl is produced in China and then shipped to Mexico, from which it travels into the US.
There is a very small quantity of cocaine produced in Venezuela. It is entirely insignificant compared to the quantity from Colombia.
Some Venezuelan fishermen transport cocaine - mostly produced in Colombia - north to Central America and Mexico in order to make ends meet.
There is no publicly available evidence that any of the boats targeted by the US were involved in drug smuggling.
The Venezuelan coast guard and navy are surprisingly pretty good at catching legitimate smugglers compared to other states in the region and post videos of their results to this extent.
There is no reason not to believe those killed in US strikes have predominantly been innocent fishermen. It's probable some smugglers were killed too, just like how if you throw darts at a wall while blindfolded, eventually by the sheer number of attacks you're likely to hit something.
>>2591405check the sources lol, you're reading fanfiction from someone who expected people to come to the opposite conclusion as you. even the "allegations" are nowhere to be found
>>2591411No, the 1993 thing was real. It's the 1990's CIA program that ended up with, uh…
>Anti-Drug Unit of C.I.A. Sent Ton of Cocaine to U.S. in 1990shenanigans that they want you to forget about.
It's literally like the Iraq WMD crap - they sold chemical weapons to Saddam themselves, so the lie was rooted in
something.
>>2591397>Is there any truth to the claim that Maduro's government is involved in drug trafficking?Let's put it a different way. There is illegal drug trade pretty much everywhere and yuppies and liberals will make a market from it. Let's answer the question as the USA poses it, without doing half the work for their propaganda rephrasing the assumptions and implications:
Venezuela is a suicidal enemy of the US state because SHOSHULISM. Maduro is the unelected, unpopular leader of a police state with no popular mandate, now or ever, just the same as Chavez. This Venezuelan state is economically in ruins thanks to SHOSHULISM because SHOSHULISTS hate prosperity and worship death and intentionally impose privations on everyone at the point of a gun because their are pure evil and insane, not US sanctions.Also, Maduro is the head of a criminal organization comprising Tren de Aragua and Cartel de Los Soles among others. The first one isn't a street gang, it's a macro criminal enterprise comprising hundreds of thousands if not millions of lumpenproles specifically dedicated to migrating to the USA and becoming a burden and vandalizing the place, at the orders of Maduro. Or spying. Or becoming plants in the political system. Or just being lumpen and poor at the USA… at Maduro's orders.This is not a migration flow caused by the brutal economic war imposed upon Venezuela by the USA and it's allies. It is a state mandated effort to "invade" and undermine the USA of A. Or you can forget all of that and they can also be innocent victims fleeing a police state and for no particular material reasons, if the gusano vote is in need.And Cartel of the Suns isn't a (documented) CIA deal with the pre-Chavez government in the pattern of "War on Drugs" DEA/cartel collaboration:'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel_of_the_Suns>The term Cartel of the Suns was first used in 1993 as a journalistic label following a political scandal involving Venezuelan military officials who were implicated in a CIA plot to smuggle cocaine into the United States in order to infiltrate Colombian cartels.[9] The term was inspired by the "soles" (sun emblems) on Venezuelan generals' uniforms.[1]No, it is a current organization for which the state of Venezuela as a whole is merely a cover. They are also responsible for significant flows of Fentanyl into the USA, and not coke(which is what the data says, but you don't want to make a moral panic about a yuppie drug like coke, much less Colombian coke).Furthermore, this drug trade is not only lacking in foreign partners and comes from the state alone. But its also not done mainly for profit, but as some sort of deranged commie-envy motivated weapon to hurt USAnos in the name of SOSHULISMThis has nothing to do with the mineral riches of Venezuela, despite Machado selling regime change to literally everyone, on exactly the terms of mass privatization and turning Venezuela into an extractive colony. Further furthermore, this also has nothing to do with the cold war and is purely motivated by internationally recognized (heh) US world police status, which they use to spread democracy, virtue, prosperity and human rights to all corners of the earth. As one can see with the treatment of MENA (or literally anything else in US foreign policy, or gusano policy).Now, does the above make any sense? No it doesn't. >>2591404Guys, you don't understand. There was a metal gear onboard.
And oil.
>>2591394The go to for these things is to namedrop a bunch of people and financial crimes to imply some sort of corruption. Rather than the origin of those financial crimes being "Bypassing US sanctions.". unless it goes to Iran or somewhere else the USAnos automatically recognize as a source of evil that preventing trade with is automatically a good thing to do.
>>2591270organized crime enterprise masquerading as a government
>>2591301the US has done worse, on bigger scales, to apathy or sloth from the rest of the world.
updates?
>>2592027They haven't even released a full statement on the oil tanker.
>>2591270Can the U.S even process this oil? I though Venezuela crude needed to be refined a certain way and we don’t have that infrastructure in place.
>>2592139America still has a limited domestic oil industry even though neoliberal import-biased economic strategies has shrunk it down massively.
its starting
oh shut up and get to the point
They seized it because it's giving oil to Iran.
>>2592164Iranbros, your response?
>>2592170They'll do nothing obviously. But this """reason""" seems very shady.
Declare Infinity War and be done with it. Cease this charade
>>2592179Americas too fucking scared. This is fake sabre-rattling. Venezuela is not calling their bluff.
>>2592182But backing down will be an even bigger optics loss. Rightoids dont like people who admit defeat. They're going to do something if only to save face
>>2592186If they REALLY want to show off their decaying strength, they might strike Venezuelan army bases and seize a few more oil tankers. Then claim "victory". Or maybe they'll invade Ecuador which Trump threatened to do yesterday.
>>2592187Pirates were based anti-imperialists. This is privateering. Ultra gay.
>>2592190>Pirates were based anti imperialistsA good number of them literally worked inderectly for the english governement to loot spanish and portuguese ships
>>2592249yeah, privateers.
>>2592282
And what if that doesn't happen?
SOMEONE PLZ POST DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY LA LA LA LA
>>2592607idc what anyone says, I love this guy.
>>2592394For that to not happen someone needs to step up.
>>2593107she has the sudoku eyes
>>2591315>said the ship was en route to Cubanah, it wasn't the ship was going more to Africa.
>Venezuelan oil>God who knows owns the ship (allegedly Russian)possibly to India.
>>2593555Stunning and brave.
>>2593138>idc what anyone says, I love this guy.honestly best man.
To consider, that Venezuela does have organized crime, as everywhere.
The worse things get the more the line of what's legal blurs. As the state institutions themselves come to, out of necessity, regularly work with the criminal side of the law, to get the things done. Such as "smuggling" all the trade the US (or sometimes the UN) sanctions. There is always a balance of this , of course, but a siege threatens the criminals gaining too much influence and eventually selling out the state to the highest bidder. Or disintegrating undermined by corruption.
So in a way, although it may not be the case for Venezuela right now, putting any place under a brutal economic siege on the premise that they are wholly corrupt and criminal is a self fulfilling prophecy. Cuba wriggled out of this by being more useful to the USA as a miserable punching bag to be made and example of, than a disaster to manage.
>>2593555>run away>get blown up by the USthat would have been extremely funny. In fact, venezuelan government should have kidnapped her, put her in a fishing boat without radio with some other gusanos, and remote controlled it toward the US
>>2586432FWIW he has been making claims for years with nothing to back them up to the point where even people 100% against Maduro who think he actually did those things don't give a fuck about what El Pollo has to say, his contributions have led to nothing
For Rubio the Cuba Hawk, the Road to Havana Runs Through VenezuelaMr. Rubio, now Mr. Trump’s secretary of state and interim national security adviser, is a primary architect of an escalating military pressure campaign against Venezuela. And while pushing out Mr. Maduro appears to be one immediate goal of U.S. policy, doing so could help fulfill another decades-long dream of Mr. Rubio’s: dealing a critical blow to Cuba.
“Their theory of change involves cutting off all support to Cuba,” said Juan S. Gonzalez, who was President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s top White House aide for Western Hemisphere affairs. “Under this approach, once Venezuela goes, Cuba will follow.”
Mr. Rubio has hinted at the idea in public, telling NPR in early 2019 that a weakened Cuba would be a welcome “byproduct” of a change in Venezuela’s government, even if it were not “the central rationale” for pushing out Mr. Maduro. “Anything that’s bad for a communist dictatorship is something I support,” he said.
In private, he has been more direct. As a senator, Mr. Rubio routinely discussed Mr. Maduro’s support for Havana in detail with his colleagues, as well as with U.S. officials and foreign diplomats, according to a former Senate aide who was often present for the discussions. The former aide said Mr. Rubio had “articulated a vision” in which splitting Venezuela from Cuba would have disastrous consequences for the Cuban government.
In 2019, Mr. Rubio and aides to Mr. Trump took what they saw as an important lesson from the failed push against Mr. Maduro that April: Cuba had been the pivotal player in saving Mr. Maduro, not his people or his generals.
Cuban intelligence had tipped off Mr. Maduro to the plot, and Cuban operatives inside his country helped him crush it, Mr. Bolton and other former officials said. Cuba also had a plane waiting, ready to whisk Mr. Maduro away — to Havana, Trump officials said at the time.
The Trump administration sharply escalated its pressure campaign against Mr. Maduro when it seized a tanker with Venezuelan oil in the Caribbean Sea on Wednesday. The tanker had offloaded some oil to a smaller ship bound for Cuba before going toward China, The New York Times reported on Friday.
A Cuban opposition figure, José Daniel Ferrer, who fled to the United States in October after being released from prison and met with Mr. Rubio, said in an interview that deposing Mr. Maduro “would also favor the fall, or possible fall, of the regime in Havana, which is the matrix of evil.”
Mr. Ferrer said he and Mr. Rubio discussed the ties between Venezuela and Cuba in their State Department meeting last month.
In a social media post on Friday, Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina who has worked closely with Mr. Rubio, described the endgame: “Hopefully the end of Mr. Maduro’s reign of terror in Venezuela is near, and then we can focus on Cuba, one of his greatest allies and one of the most oppressive regimes in our backyard.”
>Exile PoliticsFor Mr. Rubio, seeing Cuba’s government crumble would be a lifelong dream come true.
Mr. Rubio’s parents, Mario and Oriales, immigrated to Florida from Cuba three years before the triumph of Fidel Castro’s communist revolution in 1959. Rising through Florida Republican politics, Mr. Rubio cast himself as a sworn enemy of Mr. Castro (“an evil, murderous dictator”) and his successors.
“Rubio emerges out of the anti-Cuban politics of Miami,” said Benjamin J. Rhodes, a former deputy national security adviser to President Barack Obama.
Mr. Rhodes managed Mr. Obama’s partial restoration of U.S. economic and diplomatic ties with Cuba and interacted with Mr. Rubio at the time. “He’s always been rooted in a regime change policy toward Havana — it’s core to his identity,” Mr. Rhodes said.
“There’s always been an article of faith in Miami that if the Venezuelan domino falls, the Cuban domino will follow,” he added.
Since joining the Trump administration, Mr. Rubio has pressed his cause directly, ordering new sanctions on Cuban government officials, activities and businesses.
>The CrucibleThe modern Cuba-Venezuela partnership emerged from Mr. Castro’s admiration for Mr. Maduro’s predecessor, Hugo Chávez, a champion of the poor who staged a failed revolution before winning an election to take power as president in 1999.
Cuba has a singular pull on Latin America hawks, and especially for those from diaspora families like Mr. Rubio’s, said Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative magazine, which opposes U.S. regime change efforts. Those hawks see leftist governments in the region, from Nicaragua to Venezuela, “as ultimately rather hapless appendages of Havana.”
“Cuba,” he said, “is the crucible.”
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>>2595789>>2595192I like her Bolivar shirt
WAR?
NO!
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