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>>2584380Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet 520 posts and 139 image replies omitted.>>2588895>B-but they own a car!That's personal property. Technically you can use a car for productive purposes but that's significantly more complicated than say how easy it is to rent a room on a property.
>>2588896Ok so are you going to respond to my point or not?
>>2588897No, I'm not that anon.
>>2588901Oh, apologies friend. I agree with you entirely, I'm just trying to counter his asinine assertion that "Except “gig-work” is by definition unproductive labor that requires personal ownership of private property as a means of production"
I have already mathematically proven than the petty bourgeoisie, the most reactionary class, is at least a plurality among American workers. You can all cope and seethe and shit your pants but this is still true. To quote the great warrior poet Scott Steiner, the numbers don't lie.
>>2588915You still haven't even said where you got those numbers from.
>>2588915You haven't. You just got up the statistics of the petty bourgeois at it exists currently.
You know if you think about it the homeless are the ultimate petite bourgeois because they take up space for free
>>2588937nah they are lumpen through and through
>>2588939Well anything not proletarian is evil, which is the point
>>2588915it doesn't even matter if the PB is the largest class in america. all classes here are materially opposed to revolution. every single class here benefits from imperialism.
shit workers here dont worry about the value of their labor fluctuating they worry about the price of goods that almost all come from overseas.
The changing of those values has more effect on workers in the US than the value of their labor, thus not making US workers proletariat and opposed to revolution
We're heading towards crisis and what are American socialists doing? They're…
>Falling for socdem lies….again
>Still stuck engaged in idpol nonsense
>Screeching about all Americans being Hitlerites deserving death
>Dismissing service workers as not real proles
Shit is looking bleak…
>>2588947
Why are you expecting American socialists to do anything? We need to stop coping that socialists in the US have any considerable influence or ability to help in crises like this.
>>2588944>moralistbums arent evil they just are reactionary.
i am done with mutual aid. every single bum here complains that the other bums abuse social services and that they are "one of the good ones" as they drink their Natty Daddy. They have a peasant mindset and would throw revolutionaries under the bus for a free beer.
>>2588948Every time I see one of you saying some shit like this I'm reminded no one here actually has a job or knows anyone in the real world.
>>2588662Acceptance of transgender people is actually the bleakest stat here. People think it's idpol but it's representative of burgers becoming more open to oppressing their neighbors so long as the state propaganda deems them an acceptable target, represents a regression to pre-enlightenment savagery (little respect for individuality regarding personal and bodily matters, employment security for minorities, etc.), and generally shows that americans are becoming lockstepped in man vs woman idpol. (historically the most effective way to break up unions or communist movements, which is why)
People who can't grasp this are typically uneducated (third worlders who lack the capital to do so), uneducatable (most first worlders), or are mentally deficients (COVID/microplastic brain damage) who lack the ability to read between the lines and understand what, exactly, "acceptance" means.
You will see america become india or south korea levels of gender war where any personal expression is banned and men and women live completely segregated lives, allowing capital a perpetual war to divide and conquer the people with.
China will probably be the future of actual LGB (and especially T) acceptance as it embraces transhumanism, automation, and socialism. While the west regresses into a religious shithole that makes a WH40k hive world look like paradise.
>>2588965>where any personal expression is bannedthis sounds based
indifference to "gender wars" is exactly what that statisitc shows right?
people are too focused on paying bills to worry about the gay agenda or china thats why those "issues" are low
>>2588968>this sounds basedEveryone thinks they won't be the one shot in the head for being the wrong shade of white (having the wrong hairstyle/dress code, which historically has been used to legally discriminate against blacks from obtaining stable employment)
You think too highly of americans. Americans love violence against the queers and steers. You can already see them utilizing the same strategy that was used against transgenders (sex pest, rapists, mentally ill) against Indians now. Soon this will expand to han chinese and any real opposition to nazism.
>>2588962what are you talking about?
i have a job, i dont worry about my paycheck going down i worry about the chicken i eat which probably was farmed in the third world going up in price
>>2588662This is a very bizarre way to frame a poll.
Without the actual data this lacks enough context to be relevant.
>>2588969thats a leap
and to be fair i know many trans people from organizing that are sex pests and have had to be removed, also gender dysphoria is a mental condition, being chinese isn't
you are just too much of an individualist, why do you want to tell everyone you are so different from them instead of focuses on what you have in common and uniting as a class.
western "leftists" like you just want treats for your in group
>>2588974Imagine hating transhumanists so much that you're willing to empower an empire who will nuke china the minute they lose the #1 spot, lmao
>>2588970>the chicken i eat which probably was farmed in the third world…you know you can look at the label to see where your food comes from right?
The US has a massive poultry industry, I'd be shocked if you're eating chicken "farmed in the third world"
>>2588975who says i hate them?
the western left just prioritizes individual liberties over collective gains.
you are proving my point
>>2588978China has more rights for transgenders than the west. You are one of those western leftists you claim to not be. Even the labour party turned its back against transgenders (and got wiped out by reform lmao)
Can the real western leftist please stand up
>>2588980my uigah you are again supporting what i am saying
china is already socialist it makes sense that they can now work towards trans liberation
china also is not an imperial juggernaut that strangles the world with its weapons
>>2588988>whitest guy we can findDude looks like his mother was a ghost and his father was a bag of flour.
>>2588988I wish we could extract Jasmine from Texas and install her somewhere in a more relevant state. Nuke Texas and nothing of value is lost.
>>2588998just make sure to get brisket and willie nelson out of there
>>2588949The sorry and disoriented state of the "left" is not to be ignored but you're painting an overly bleak picture. The most important thing to pay attention to is level of worker militancy and consciousness, which is increasing rapidly in America. Look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics for the number of work stoppages by year. They have dramatically increased in the past 7 or so years. Workers are of course still lagging FAR behind where they should be given the objective conditions, but in terms of class consciousness we are in a much much stronger position than we were even just 10 years ago.
>>2589002i think shit like COVID helped with that
>>2588949I think there is going to need to be a reckoning with how SocDem solutions are too patch-work and weak to meet the moment without losing momentum on the left. I don’t really know how that’s going to work because communism is still a bridge too far for most people. Maybe a ton of really effective agit-prop might shift perspective but it would need to happen quickly. The way things are accelerating I’m not sure how much time there is left until fascism throws the country into a death spiral. I’m trying to be optimistic but everything looks “too-little-too-late” right now.
>>2589018The reckoning is always happening and organically evolving day to day. And what you can do is help it by joining an org. I know it's "cringe" because we're all le epic radical trve communists but go to the DSA. All the active and willful communists are there, propagandizing and pushing things forward. Think organically, not digitally. As long as we're actually engaged with things as they are
right now we will be able to adapt to whatever may come.
The perfect is the enemy of the good. Just do your best. But do
something >>2588988>democrats running a guy who is studying to be a pastorThings you do when your goal is to lose
>>2589026NTA but I can't see joining the DSA as a useful step until they break with the Democrats (which will most likely never happen). The American working class, probably more than any other working class in the first world, desperately needs some measure of political independence.
>>2589033they have a better chance of breaking off if others support that.
the only thing that will suck is they will lose a huge chunk of members NYC DSA will never leave the dems theyre cooked
>>2589033>>2589040God damn it they don't need to "break" with the Dems. You don't understand how the party system actually works in America when you say shit like this.
And they act based on how they vote internally because they are a democratic centralist organization with a shit ton of people. Stop obsessing over how they endorse candidates that run on the democratic ticket. It's a legitimate strategy and it works. And it's not the only thing they do!
>>2589048>God damn it they don't need to "break" with the DemsYou’re right! They need to be utterly crushed with the Dems!
>>2589048>God damn it they don't need to "break" with the Dems. You're right, they only need to do so if they're actually serious about wanting socialism, which they probably aren't.
>You don't understand how the party system actually works in America when you say shit like this. Winning elections is pointless if it's done by allying with hostile class forces and pursuing a hostile class agenda. The point of an independent working class party is not to immediately start winning elections. That could theoretically happen under the right conditions, but the primary goal is for workers to gain a mass political understanding of themselves as a class with its own goals and needs, and that can't happen if they are shackled to bourgeois parties.
>Stop obsessing over how they endorse candidates that run on the democratic ticket.They can endorse whoever they please, but I'm correct to say that an organization that endorses bourgeois candidates is not socialist.
>It's a legitimate strategy and it works. It works to elect Democrats. It doesn't work to elect socialists. Do we need to go over AOC's many many legislative betrayals again?
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>>2589051>>2589048>because they are a democratic centralist organization kek
dem cent was BANNED in DSA till the last convention
i am aware of that ballot tickets are non binding, but when you start having succesful candidates like Mamdani being forced to run as Democrats the Democrats will inevitably siphon them off
thats why the clean break is necessary
>gig workers are petit bourgeois because semantics
AAAAAAAAGGH YAAAAAAAARRRGGHHH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGG
>>2587616You are still a goldbug, don't worry. Gold is an intermediary step that's acceptable for everybody
>>2588970I work at the chicken producer and my paycheck has measurably gone down this year, they're cutting hours to try to create a higher rate of profit from labor by reducing overtime costs.
By the way we're a strong net exporter of chicken. We import labor for the industry but it's mostly prison laborers and vaguely legal agricultural visas. I can tell you as someone doing the demeaning work you subconsciously think is being exported to third world untermensch that there's no "labor aristocracy" in the fucking chicken plant. But I guess we're not real. The online left will need to be dealt with at some point.
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