/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

actual previous thread sorry >>2650980
actual previous thread sorry >>2650980
actual previous thread sorry >>2650980

Lenin said so

burger thread archive

>>2652435
yes, it was in this work he said so

You will write for HOUDINI Magazine.

It was the father-in-law, not the father

>>2652443
Damn, idk why Lenin suggested we kill ourselves so many times. Just once would have sufficed.

>>2652451
when Laura Marx, Marx's daughter, committed suicide with her husband Paul LaFargue, Lenin commended it, saying that we should all kill ourselves when we are feeble and no longer useful to the class struggle.

>>2652444
It's a terribly framed question, really. The missleading dichotomy assumes a necessary zero sum "domination", implies a false equivalence in the "type" of domination between USA and China, and leaves no option for neither to dominate.

But regardless. The volk are fascist, irredeemable treatlerites must have their labubus, total burger death unironically.

reuters is literally directed by a cia handler:
https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en-us/posts/authors/dawn-scalici/
(404, archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20210127075833/https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en-us/posts/authors/dawn-scalici/)
Just a cordial reminder.

>>2652456
>It's a terribly framed question, really.
OF COURSE IT IS
POLLS ARE THAT WAY BY DESIGN
THE MEDIA ARE THE STENOGRAPHERS OF THE RULING CLASS

>>2652454
>Killed herself before turning 70 like she planned
>She just didn't want to be old and annoying
>Needle with cyanide
>Death note is literally "I die with the supreme joy of knowing that at some future time, the cause to which I have been devoted for forty-five years will triumph.

>Long live Communism! Long Live the international socialism!"

That's the most metal shit I have ever read in my life

>>2652456
>But regardless. The volk are fascist, irredeemable treatlerites must have their labubus, total burger death unironically.
If that were true they wouldn't need to frame the question in such a misleading way. They would just ask if Americans would rather maintain their empire in Asia or withdraw to the Americas in exchange for China keeping out. The way its framed is essentially asking Americans if they would prefer to carve up the world with China or not let any one country dominate east Asia.

>>2652459
i don't get what her job is supposed to be

>>2652463
>I die with the supreme joy of knowing that at some future time, the cause to which I have been devoted for forty-five years will triumph

May that day come

>>2652464
don't argue with an unfalsifiable dogma. the fact that you argue proves you're a fascist treatlerite. if you don't argue you concede that you're a fascist treatlerite. "irredeemable" was also used. Literally christian nonsense.

>>2652435
magnitude 12 earthquake

>>2652317
>>2652317
You are wrong for making mistake of clinging vulgar 19th century dogmatism. Engels lived in free market capitalism, not imperialism. Engels line against tariff is materially and historically superseded. Free trade is imperialist, walmart line.

Lenin destroyed free trade reactionaries and used tariffs to crush capitalism and build industry. Study Lenin tariff line
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/dec/13.htm

>>2652443
Superceded by historical praxis. The American worker must pursue the GDR road to socialism. The oppressor nations are actively at war with the oppressed nations and we must pursue a dedicated revolutionary defeatism. We must trust in the ability of our comrades in the periphery to organize revolution once we sabotage the empire enough.

>>2652359
>There's something about the removal of the foreskin that reactionaries associate with castration and makes them eternally frustrated
Cutting off skin and nerves from the penis make sex less enjoyable while castration destroys it all together so the only difference is in degree.
Seriously no leftist should defend the religious practice of genital mutilation especially on babies. Right wingers have realized many American men are resentful of literal hack doctors fucking up their genitalia at birth. Legitimate medical reasons for it are incredibly limited and basically only done to adults.

>>2652448
The guy is so obviously trying to make her former father-in-law talk shit about her and he wants to talk about Jesus lmao.

>>2652481
It kinda pisses me off when leftists take the liberal approach of just accepting the status quo as "normal" just because it makes conservatives mad or changing things might offend God's Chosen People.

Circumcision is disgusting and yet another reason we must eliminate religion from society.

boomers would LITERALLY sacrifice their kids for trump LMAO

Everything that happens in Minneapolis will be extended to the rest of the nation. Minneapolis is the state selected to be the test bed for ICE's war on the working class. We, as revolutionaries, should probably be in our communities preparing for these things: building our resources, reinforcing our networks, identifying bad faith actors, doing mutual aid, and knowing that the army of the regime is coming to take our neighbors. There are people in your community who are already actively against the status quo of armed terror in our streets.

These are things you cannot do if you are alienated from your community, yet we are tasked with standing up in this moment. This requires us to maintain an understanding of the contradictions we are navigating, to reduce egoism, and to use realpolitik (politics based on practical praxis rather than ideological purity) finesse to build and maintain dual power and cultural counter-hegemony within our local spheres.

If people who stand against this madness are loud and apply pressure, those who have no problems with it, or even support it, will have to be quieter about it. But the rightoids aren't the smartest people. They have this policy of "hiding their power level," wherein they know that their politics, beliefs, morals, and bigotry are morally unacceptable to others. In order to gain social power, they hide these beliefs and wear a mask. This is why they use dog whistles and wait until you're alone with them to show you their true colors.

The reality is, there are probably people within your community who are not allies but are hiding their power level. I've seen this in real time. Right-wingers are, for better or worse, actual understanders of how power moves: becoming indispensable, "irreplaceable," knowing people with social power, having monied connections, and doing things for people in order to ingratiate themselves to the community. Combine this with the dog whistles and 'back-alley' conversations, and those who discover that this person is indeed a bad faith actor will be met with, "He does such good work, there's no way!" or "He's too nice to be a racist," or "We need him because no one else is willing to do X." This logic allows the reactionary to test boundaries, recruit, and signal to allies while maintaining deniability within the larger, still-liberal hegemonic field.

Not to mention, rightoids will constantly use excuses like "hearing out both sides," "it's just dark humor," or "I just liked it ironically" to run fade for their beliefs and create more plausible deniability. They know that the majority of people are non-confrontational and do not want to create friction, because friction is bad for business. And then ICE shows up to abduct your food vendors at the show because the sound guy called them, and no one is going to know he called. No one is going to think that person was able to get that deep into a leftist circle.

And then, even if he's discovered, even if he's found out, retaliation becomes an issue. Especially if the person in question did have considerable social power within the community, they will feel wronged and perhaps "betrayed" for their beliefs. Will he call ICE and burn the whole spot? He loves guns and thinks the space is full of "black and brown savages" (the memes they engaged with said these exact things). Who's to say he's not a threat, especially given the racial biases of the justice system and how emboldened rightoids are with soldiers literally enacting their "day of the rope" dream on everyday people right now?

If the goal is to create a safe, or better yet, resilient community and community space, then this fear can very well have a chilling effect. The person who's worried about their safety due to their citizenship might feel even more threatened by the potential to be caught in the crosshairs of retaliation.

That's why, in theory, you have to have a zero tolerance policy for bigotry: for liking racist memes, for ironically posting shit about George Floyd, for making transphobic jokes, for engaging with right-wing content online. That's one of the easiest tells, because again, right-wing people are not that smart. Yeah, he follows five dozen white power accounts on IG, and people are seeing the memes he likes in their own feed because that's how IG works. They have poor opsec. When you start asking people in private, you learn, "He's showed me racist memes when we were alone," or "Yeah, we got into a debate about abortion and he got pretty heated about men's rights," or whatever the tell is.

Even still, the "he's just into dark humor" excuse has a lot of staying power; people do not want to believe people they place trust in are bigots. Furthermore, how does one distinguish between the necessary exclusion of a dangerous actor and the descent into sectarian purity spirals? How can community be built when there's limited room for growth and a purge-like logic is cast upon those who might engage in "wrongthink"?

Ironically, here, the 'business sense' created by the contradictions of a small business owner's position can be of use. The higher tolerance for ideological differences predicated by the need to maintain customers forces a longer-term sense of thinking, allowing those in that position to gauge the severity of risk with the person involved. There's a strong difference between someone who watches Fox News with their headphones on while sipping coffee in the cafe, and someone who is actively in a position to harm the community. Essentially, there's levels to this shit, and it would behoove you to understand this dialectically.

Most of our community in the US is based on small business locations: cafes, coffee shops, bars, venues, etc. This isn't a moral judgment; this is a material reality of our material conditions. There's a need to not create friction within these spaces due to the need to maintain customer base and profits. Ergo, there's a strong likelihood that these spaces will tolerate the right-winger who remains quiet about it longer than they will tolerate the revolutionary who is loud about having zero tolerance.

Just because you are trusted by members of the community doesn't mean you have power within that community to the degree where you can unilaterally make tactical decisions that create significant friction within the business that the community uses. Especially when you consider that the class position of the small business owner is often much closer to the position of the worker than it is to the banker/landlord class, often working shifts right alongside the workers. Even if they have the capacity to fire or exploit the workers, the levels of exploitation will vary.

Yes, there are small business tyrants that abuse their workers, use churn tactics, and pay minimum wage; these do deserve scorn. Yet there is a minority of business owners who, despite being beholden to the exploitation inherent within the capitalist superstructure, are using their position within said superstructure to provide infrastructure that is inherently praxis-oriented. Being a resilient space within a sea of reactionary oppression is praxis in its own right. Taking the same wage as your worker is a form of solidarity.

We exist within late-stage capitalist neoliberalism wherein the entire model has been individual business ownership as the primary source of strengthening your own material conditions. One way we can look at this is: one group seeks to become the multi-millionaire exploiter, to join the capitalist class; the other group seeks to, as Deng put it, "build our productive forces." We cannot build revolution if we have no place to organize, and our superstructural constraints—the material conditions within America—dictate that the bulk of these spaces will be small businesses. Perhaps a significant portion of the material resources will come from this same minority of principally aligned haute-bourgeoisie. This was true for the IRA, after all.

The revolutionary must engage these contradictions dialectically, not dismiss them dogmatically. It's the revolutionary who is tasked with threading the contradictions between the capitalist superstructure that requires the community to use a business space, the need for the business to maintain profits, and the ideological allyship of the small business owner in relation to the class conflict with the business owner. This means that even if the small business owner is operating on the same principled line of zero tolerance, community safety, mutual aid, and queer protection, they are still beholden to the contradictions created by the superstructure. They have to maintain some level of profit because the rent has to be paid; it's really that simple sometimes.

The revolutionary, the activist, the organizer, is not beholden to the same contradictions created by this class position, which enables a higher degree of personal risk. But this personal risk cannot translate to the rest of those who are ideologically aligned with the revolutionary. Someone who has two kids to feed is going to inherently move differently than someone who has no children. Someone who started a business to create infrastructure for the community has no choice but to navigate those class contradictions, but those contradictions do not inherently prevent their allyship based on principles.

Realpolitik means understanding these different positions within the class structure and forming alliances based on a clear-eyed assessment of these constraints, not on ideological purity. You must understand this.

As I've learned, maintaining an internet presence and being a known person creates its own set of superstructural contradictions. Protester logic and purity culture create an air of inability in terms of real network building. Are you confusing militancy for martyrdom?

For example: You, as a trusted member of your community, learn that another member of the community is living in moldy conditions with children. You tell this person you'll do whatever you can, and you mean it. Again, militancy or rashness? Because you quickly learn that the landlord also owns a small business downtown. Before the community member who's a lawyer can even walk the person through all of the legal options available to them, you're making Instagram posts, tagging the business, mobilizing people for a potential action. All of this doesn't come to pass because the mold gets fixed. Pyrrhic victory? Yes, the mold issue is resolved; a working-class woman and her kids are sleeping safer. But you've just burned bridges with people who have considerable 'social clout' within the larger local power structure.

Other comrades tell you exactly the truth: There are people in the community who could have fixed the moldy drywall without ever involving the landlord. There are people within the community who can speak to the landlord one-on-one without ever making a public call-out, and there are people who can provide legal support for the renter to help them get their rent back. One might immediately jump to the "fuck landlords" bit, or even claim that the class contradictions here are too great, and thus only the most complete "razing of the ground" is an acceptable tactic. That's the dogmatic thinking, and in a sense, egoism, that prevents long-term praxis from fermenting. Is your goal to build dual power, or to win a single victory? There is a fundamental difference between the revolutionary and the activist in this sense, even if so much of our political messaging confuses activism for revolutionary action; you cannot make the same mistake.

As I've learned, if you want to protect your community, you have to be able to manage the friction you're going to create within that community. For example: You know that at least one person in a position of power within the space is engaging in the type of content I mentioned above, and you have people who are coming to you, telling you that this makes them uncomfortable, or perhaps even unsafe due to their citizenship status. You're being told this because you're a trusted person within the community who knows the stakes in a real way. Another person in the community with no social power or clout is also found posting racist memes, maybe posted up online in a racist shirt. Again, someone else in the community brings this to you because you're trusted and treat the space like it's your own.

You decide to use your social capital within the community to call out this person loudly at an event, with the intent of using this person as an example to showcase the zero tolerance principles. A reasonable strategy? Maybe, maybe not. If you burn your social capital in an explosive move, you could find yourself alienated from the community you intended to protect. The mutual aid infrastructure is more important than winning a single confrontation. Every action must be weighed against its impact on that capacity.

The friction created by this call-out, especially at an event, alienates the customer base of the business that the community (and its pantry, and other mutual aid related projects) rely on. Think of it like a video game meter; the meter gets too high, you fail the mission. Even if the call-out works, perhaps damaging the reputation of the person in question or causing others to rally against their beliefs, there will be others who are alienated by the directness. Those people might also be people of considerably higher standing within the community, who might feel that this sort of escalation of tactics in the short term damages the long-term stability of the infrastructure that is, again, needed to maintain essential mutual aid work.

Ergo, the revolutionary needs to operate with more finesse. Realpolitik is the most challenging of politics. It is, as Gramsci put it, a war of position, not of maneuver.

How come leftypol has literally nothing like this shit? It's just nerds arguing and huge walls of text with no practical information on resisting the state. I wish I knew more about this stuff so I could contribute, but this place kinda sucks. Instead of memes making fun of the latest namefag does anyone have infographics on how to disrupt ICE or build cool anarchist tech?

tbh this probably deserves its own thread I'm just lazy.

>>2652501
Why do you bother writing this absolute fucking garbage

>>2652510
why do you bother responding

are upset that someone takes the things you claim to believe more seriously than you yourself do? are you going to write me an email telling me to kill myself? Here's our submission form:

https://houdinimagazine.com/submissions

>>2652486
>leftists take the liberal approach of just accepting the status quo as "normal"
Even worse is when they try to pretend problems are just psychological and insist going to therapy will fix everything.
In fact I didn't think it was that big a deal either until I looked at the circumcision threads thinking it would be le funny shitposting. Except the posts were full of clearly physically damaged penises with people being justifiably upset with the results.
Hell, it's now become very clear to me American doctors are money hungry butchers so it's toss of the dice if you end up sexually crippled for life or just ok. And those people who were hurt can't even sue because it's "normal" so their only cope is praying magic gene therapy will fix it one day.

>>2652502
Because anarchism sucks at building larger organizations that can compete with he state. Even criminal orgs resist the larger state more effectively than Anarchists ever could because they effectively built their own small states to control and discipline members.
However, nothing wrong with learning more about tech.

>>2652514
You have so severely misappropriated a hodge podge of barely understood Marxist ideas as well as bourgeois activist terminology that essentially everything in that post is sheer fucking drivel.

Oh my mistake, there's an ancom flag.

You're retarded.

>>2652499
>Remember when Anarchists shot at a car killing…
i don't. what are you talking about?

It makes me cum buckets how terminally online rightoids leave their internet bubbles to sperg out in real life, thinking that it is still 2015, not realizing that most people want to impale them nowadays, keeek

>>2652524
Chastizing the crying 12 year old, this is how the world needs to treat all right wingers.

>>2652523
CHAZ/CHOP in Seattle and it's more complicated than anon described it (and only one teen was killed, the passenger survived).

Lol

>>2652524
They should have roughed him up more. Too many libs in the crowd.

>>2652532
lel

I WAS MURDERED

I'm too dumb for 4chan's new captcha.

>>2652524
There's no angle with a better view of the punches?? I want to see the impact into his face goddamn it

I know it hardly matters but /pol/ really is genuinely reeling. Chuds are barely breathing for air and the only migger safe space is the MAGA general that that's occasionally deleted by mods and the thread is flooded by bitching about Isreal and calling trump a pedo.
And on top of that, all /pol/ posting gets deleted instantly on other boards. But if it's shit making fun of Kirk or bitching about Trump it stays up. If Rapeape is still a chud I actually doubt it. The atmosphere has changed very fast.
The rightoids hardly need 4chan anymore though. But it is actually very surprising to me. I honestly thought I would never see the day.

>>2652542
miga doesn't need /pol/ anymore, they have millions of boomer drones to carry it forward

You keep mocking rightoids for being terminally online and whatnot. That's fantasy football politics, culture war slop.The rightoids are in uniform, in office. It seems to me they are doing pretty well and positioned to do even better.

>>2652543
They'll all die soon.

>>2652544
Unless war kicks the shit out of the US.

>>2652547
"soon" being a decade or two, long enough to consolidate the dictatorship and construct A.I. God (probably)

>Some 1,500 active duty Army paratroopers have been put on alert for a potential deployment to Minnesota, according to two defense officials.

The soldiers are from the 11th Airborne Division, based at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in Alaska, one of the Army's premier infantry formations and a frontline force in the U.S. military presence in the Pacific, positioned to help deter China. The division is also the military's leading formation for Arctic warfare.

One official said the president had not made a final decision on whether to deploy two battalions. The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

"We are taking prudent steps to prepare active-duty Army forces," the official said. "This doesn't mean they will deploy; we are preparing options."

The 11th Airborne troops were recalled to base on Friday, amid the long holiday weekend, to stand by as a so-called quick reaction force, a rapid-deployment force, according to an internal notice to the unit's leadership, reviewed by ABC News.

-ABC NEWS

Daily reminder to stop dooming. This is one of the most exciting times in history to be a revolutionary. The richest and most powerful country in the world is sitting on a social powder keg that, if the current trajectory holds, can and will lead to massive general strikes that will rock the entire country and, by extension, the entire globe. The USA is on the cusp of profound and world-altering tidal shifts.

>>2652551
trump is a kid playing with green army soldier toys

>>2652553
On the bright side my neighborhood is almost completely free of any and all MAGA flags. So maybe we'll be able to come together when shit hits the fan. We have a lot of community resources out here, farms and trade groups.

>>2652553
I think the unfortunate reality we have to come to terms with is the average westoid lived a life of luxury and excess and are terrified of the thought of their treats being turned off no matter how much they deny it.

I'm not even a TW but it's pretty obvious the reason America has never had a revolution is because Americans are too scared of losing what they already have to take any risks, and the few that do are demonized and ridiculed for being "idealists". Even this place has very few actual revolutionaries, most people just wanna play armchair geopolitical analyst over "what will happen next" without actually getting involved.

>>2652555
you got any sources to back that up?

>>2652551
Porky's hubris will be his downfall. They are delusionally out of touch and don't realize just how pissed off they're making people with this shit. Minnesota is also a bad target. One of the most left-wing states and still has some semblance of a functioning labor movement and a very militant strike history. They will actually fight back if they keep getting backed into a corner like this.

>>2652542
There's a split among the American far right. There are the normie fascists, who cheer on everything the Trump admin does and generally skew Gen X and up, and then there are those who hate Trump from the right, and these are usually Gen Z and Millennials who are more online and often fancy themselves to be better than their fellow rightoids. This factions sees Trump as too incompetent, misguided, and undignified to properly carry out and represent the fascism they wish to impose.

>>2652557
my neighborhood was fucking full of trump posters when the election was happening. i should have written down the addresses for um, posterity's sake

>>2652559
Even well-fed people won't tolerate military and secret police occupying their city and disappearing their neighbors. Especially since the appropriate groundwork has not been laid for a move like this by the bourgeoisie. It was a sudden escalation and people are reacting accordingly.

>>2652524
Isn’t this the guy that go cold cocked in Dearborn too? Is this a fetish for him?

>>2652563
My next door neighbor was a migger for quite some time and knew we were against trump. She came out of hiding acting all apologetic and looking at me with sad eyes. I didn't comment on it and I just asked her how she is holding up. I don't forgive her but we can't survive if we can't depend on our neighbors. Eventually these people can we reconditioned to realize Trump was never some economic savior.

>>2652565
This is complete and utter horseshit, you have to be willfully ignorant to believe this.

>>2652570
I feel like everyone got a boost of confidence seeing that fucker in >>2652566 get his shit kicked in. A win is a win. It will get worse though. We'll see if Minnesota can keep fighting.

>>2652570
Can you point to specific historical examples of military forces and secret police occupying cities which did NOT result in major acts of mass resistance? It's not normal human behavior to see jackboot thugs with masks marching your hometown streets and just shrug and say "Oh, well." Even apolitical and socially unconcerned people have a limit to what they're willing to put up with.

>>2652565
Americans have been beaten down to believe any kind of "rocking the boat" will result in a worsening of their quality of life. I'm not sure why this differs from places like France or the UK or Italy where petit-bourgeois middle class people regularly destroy the government if they aren't having their needs met. America might just be a cargo cult where people believe Capitalism will bless them if they just say nothing and do nothing that might offend Capitalist Jesus. idk. Or the fact America doesn't have a true proletarian base as all our industry has been replaced with immigrants that are dependent on Capital for their visa. Burger King workers going on strike doesn't exactly scare the bourgeois. Not sure what the solution even is but things will continue to get worse until Americans grow some balls.

>>2652576
The only thing I can say is that usually this is when people start to get tired of fighting. This is usually when the signs start to appear. However, things appear to be ramping up even further on both sides. And I see people online constantly calling to keep fighting even harder. I guess we'll see in another week.

>>2652555
I'm lazy so I'm just gonna put this all in bullet points for you.
>in the days and weeks prior to this, some drivers in the area would use their vehicles to threaten and intimidate protesters
>there was an earlier incident where a man drove into the crowd, got out of his car, shot a protester in the arm, and then fled to police over the barricade where he was warmly received
>after the aforementioned incident, protesters attempted to protect themselves with handmade barricades and nail boards which were then confiscated by police
>the overall feeling among the protesters in the occupied zone was undoubtedly paranoid especially about vehicle attacks
>the night of the fatal shooting, the two teens (the older one, who was 16, was from California and ran away from home to go to Seattle) committed a carjacking by knifepoint a few blocks away, which was then reported over the police scanner and heard by protesters
>the driver then began an erratic joyride in/around the protest zone
>protestor leadership decided far too quickly to open fire on the car if it entered the protest zone where they were congregated, which it did
It's a tragedy and it shouldn't have happened and the protesters bear culpability for mishandling their response, such as:
>jumping the gun (literally)
>poor leadership, including a known sex trafficker called Raz Simone and his posse
>shooting the incapacitated driver point blank who may have otherwise survived his injuries

wait, the US constitution is BASED???

>>2652430
Damn and I thought my relationship with my dad was fucked up…

>>2652573
The entire purpose of their deployments will be to break the protests, in which any intensification will be met with a doubling down both at the state and the administrative level. Likewise it will push the remaining political opposition at the level of the Federal state to Trump into the same corner similar fears of a response on the level of disorder in Minnesota.

There is no organisation to the resistance, and any deepening of the crisis will push the situation into one defined by ever further violent and repressive measures.

It is not the beginning of some mythical revolution but the blind reaction in a series developments in which the only force to be countenaced will be that of the state's. This is precisely the reason the ICE raids have not and will not stop, and why the governor is helpless in attempting to appease either side.

Pull your head out of your fucking ass.

>>2652585
under similar fears*

>>2652585
What is your proof for a lack of organization?

>>2652585
I’m not buying it.
It’s anti-thetical to American identity to be occupied by armies

>>2652573
This is just a bit ahead of schedule BLM 2026 though. Because they actually want to build the brownshirts up.

You are gonna get worked up and riot.
The cops are gonna get their fascist recruitment drive.
The activists are gonna mobilize and get clobbered for clout.
And a new crop of politicos is gonna descend with promises of "better trained" fascists and wonk-ish oversight schemes
At the end of the day, the security state will whack anyone remotely radical or organized enough to matter.
And replace them with grifters and controlled opposition.

The Dems show mealy mouthed support for the protests/riots, win moderately both chambers , blame Trump(but support Trump's policies in congress), and begin making victory laps in a holding pattern until 2028 because they have to offer nothing. Since Trump is out of terms and that's all that matters to the PR cattle.

They'll probably try to impeach Trump again too, just for the show.

Then you will vote for Newsom/AOC or whatever and keep 99% of the, no longer on TV/social media, policies as they are. Then probably go to war with some minor opponent and continue massaging the reactivation of the draft.AS well as wagies eating ever more shit to keep the profit rate high enough to deter Porky from looking too amorously at China.

But with rainbow flags and epic, not-quite-as-geriatric clapbacks from a clintonite in office.

>>2652585
All I can say is you are going to look very foolish for your overwrought pessimism when this actually plays out. Already Minnesota's unions are overwhelmingly planning and endorsing a general strike. In a country like America where general strikes are practically unheard of, that's no small thing. The tides are shifting and genuine revolutionaries should avoid being caught off guard and left in the dust by underestimating the masses.

>>2652589
There is absolutely no party apparatus with which the protests are being driven, hence the coming pathetic attempt to shutdown for a day. These are simply sporadic clashes that are breaking out and if anything indicative of the actual condition of the failure in the collective political will of American workers to resist the demands of their ruling class, in a sense their last gasps for air.

What occurs in Minnesota will be seen as an example irrespecive of whether the citizens of other states follow suit in attempting to defy ICE.

>>2652593
lol you think ICE is a psyop?

>>2652593
>The Dems show mealy mouthed support for the protests/riots, win moderately both chambers , blame Trump(but support Trump's policies in congress), and begin making victory laps in a holding pattern until 2028 because they have to offer nothing. Since Trump is out of terms and that's all that matters to the PR cattle.
Except this time people are actively saying in mass that they know the Dems are not going to help and the government isn't going to help. The same people on the streets and screaming about pushing harder. It's a very different tone.

None of this matters if America goes to war over greenland though. All the rules change.

>>2652598
Europe will drop a nuke on Mar-a-Lago, inshallah.

I have never ever seen people on the left or even liberals demand police protection like this lol.

>>2652592
The response of the protestors or sympathizers becomes irrelevant once the army are deployed, as at that point the remaining state governors and members of congrss who pose a threat will fear identical outcomes and rally behind a Republican base in which Trump has consolidated complete control.

There is no positive outcome unless those protestors in Minnesota are able to build a class basis for their resistance, which given the present condition will not happen. Fundamentally because any opposition to the political hegemony of the bourgeoisie within America was broken a century ago.

>>2652595
>pathetic attempt to shutdown for a day
You do not understand what you're talking about. The 1934 general strike in Minneapolis started off as a very humble truckers' strike and it escalated extremely rapidly due to state repression and ended up being one of the most significant strikes in American history and was partly responsible for the formation of the CIO and industrial unionism. When you call things like this "pathetic" you just reveal that you are completely ignorant of and detached from any real understanding of (or appreciation for) the history of organized labor.

>>2652430
It's important to remember that Christian conservatives are conservatives first and Christians a very, very distant second.

That wasn't a normal guy whose religion told him to hate his daughter, bootlick cops and support Trump. That was a crypto-fascist reactionary fanatic who hated his daughter, loves cops and supports Trump who decided to decorate those beliefs with his religion. I know that MAGA has really ramped up playacting as big Christians recently, but it's an obvious red herring and you shouldn't fall for it.

>>2652608
>it wasnt real christianity
cope

>>2652607
There is no social body of labor organization in 2026; projecting one set of historical conditions onto present affairs by playing make believe with your whimsical fantasy over the 'natural' moral integrity the workers is, as mentioned, pathetic.

The shutdown will come, pass, and you will be left asking yourself the same deluded questions as to why you must accept defeat after defeat in ever worsening conditions.

Again, pull your head out of your ass.

>>2652604
Depends how much it escalates. I can’t name a time in U.S. history where the army fired upon citizen and it didn’t result in pouring oil on the fire. I guess we’ll see.

I hate people that think being negative is the same as being realistic. If you're so pessimistic and doomer about the whole thing then why don't you just join the reactoid hordes?. You can't be a socialist without hope. To yield hopelessly to the status quo and power is inherently reactionary.

>>2652607
Brother, this is all a result of imageboards and social media rewarding the most extreme possible opinions. The modern left, or at least those who use places like this, are not apt to make mistakes, they aren't actualizing material praxis, their only political concepts are one of puritan nihilism. Any compromise, any strategic nuance, any engagement with contradiction is a sinful betrayal or moral failure. To attempt to build revolution is to betray the modern left. Nothing can be done, there is no path to victory, attempting things will only result in failure, making mistakes is seen as tantamount of counter-revolution.

There is no room for pragmatic strategic thinkers within the space of the online left, and that's by design. The modern left, at least based on the people I interact with online, choose the pure posture of total opposition over the effective praxis of building from within the contradictory reality.

Since you can't win, all you can do is loudly disparage those attempting to win. The feds used to write letters to MLK, telling him to kill himself, calling him an adulterer, lambasting his moral choices, all in an effort to demoralize him from action. Today, the FBI doesn't have to do shit because the left does it to their own.

>>2652576
>>2652559
>and are terrified of the thought of their treats being turned off
Most "treats" Americans have are very mediocre. In reality they are terrified of being homeless with no heathcare at the mercy of the elements or forced into prison rape dungeon slave camps.

>>2652613
>didn’t result in pouring oil on the fire

Which is precisely the point, as any escalation puts Trump and the Republicans in a position of strength.

>>2652616
one of the best posts you've ever made on this website houdini, kudos

>>2652475
Engels was talking about how it is irrelevant whether capitalist countries use tariffs or free trade, because it can only buy them time, not save them from destruction. Your comparison of the US under Donald Trump with Lenin in Russia is irrelevant because early Soviet Russia was a poorly developed and half destroyed country that needed to build up productive forces and protect itself from capitalist penetration, America is not.

>>2652618
Does it? Assuming this escalates to the point of civil unrest in other cities, enacting the same crack down that riled them up in the first place doesn’t pacify the situation.
That’s also not to mention domestic unrest while trying to start wars abroad, especially with Europe, normally doesn’t bode well.

>>2652542
/ptg/ is nothing but avatarfags jerking each other off while the occasional baiter gets bites by calling Trump a zionist pedo (he is one). Otherwise, the majority of threads are very anti-Trump now

4chan's autistic hatred for jews does see past cult of personalities, eventually

>>2652623
Their hate for jews might be the only thing that saves us. I still think it probably had something to do with Kirk since he became very anti-Israel and then ended up dead not soon after. Who knows but it is extremely suspicious.

>>2652622
It isn't about pacification but the centralization of powers under the President using a divide and conquer strategy. The threat of civil unrest within a state will be used to authorise measures which pressure his political opponents by strangling their economic base, intervening in their administrative affairs, and systematically deposing them from office - all of which is occuring in Minnesota.

War itself would just lead to a consolidation of class rule, as state spending would be further redirected to an increased defence budget which includes law enforcement.

>>2652626
>>2652622
To add to this: the shutdown in Minnesota will achieve nothing as it will just add to the increasing cost the state will have to spend in cleaning up this mess. There is no class body by which the strike can be sustained through mass organisation, so rather than fanning the flames of the conflict it will end up starving the protestors of their support.

>>2652610
It isn't a case of what is or isn't "real Christianity," but rather that channeling anger at the right through a critique of Christianity is a waste of time and energy.

It's similar to going into some lengthy debate over the video of Renee Nicole Good. It's obvious what happened in the video. The people claiming that Good was trying to run the officer over are simply lying and they know that they're lying. It is a deliberate red herring. By even engaging with this stupid little debate, you are wasting time, energy and, worse, aiding the narrative that what happened in the video was even debatable and that the claims of the Trump administration have any merit whatsoever.

Similarly, when you engage with the idea that this all has something to do with Christianity, you allow them to give the impression that their beliefs and their movement is motivated by some kind of deep spiritual convictions, rather than the odious bigotry and hatred that it actually is. This dude doesn't hate is daughter, love cops and support Trump because of any kind of deeply held religious or spiritual conviction. He hates his daughter, is glad that she is dead, loves the cops and supports Trump because he's a spiteful little piece of shit. He is not misguided by a religion and would be a good person if he suddenly became an atheist. He and all of his ilk are just evil, spiteful little pissants who deserve to die.

>>2652628
>To add to this: the shutdown in Minnesota will achieve nothing as it will just add to the increasing cost the state will have to spend in cleaning up this mess. There is no class body by which the strike can be sustained through mass organisation, so rather than fanning the flames of the conflict it will end up starving the protestors of their support.
mods can we ban this guy for pulling the white moderate argument out of his ass

>>2652636
It is an honest shame that the moderators let you and other low quality posters shit up this general, as it kills all Marxist discussion and just encourages the Fascists who come here to deliberately derail discussions

>>2652637
You aren't a Marxist if you're unwilling to engage in revolutionary tactics because it might offend someone. You're a white moderate. Stop trying to push your "honest concern" about any kind of labor activity disrupting the economy on a site full of people who have no stake in the current economy and just want to see it burn.

Personally I'd rather save the doomer talk for when it literally is over.

>>2652638
Revolutionary tactics are undertaken by mass political movements organised on a class and party basis.

These are disorganized protestors who are individuals confronting themselves with the reality of their own political subjugation under bourgeois rule.

Dress the situation up however you like, you still end up denying reality either way.

>>2652639
same dude, I hate how people act like geopolitical analysts but all they can ever talk about is how this or that will fail without providing solutions or ideas that might succeed. If you knew how to achieve Marxism you'd be applying it yourself. Unless you're just a glowie trying to demoralize.

>>2652641
>le application of le marxism
Voluntarism

>>2652639
Its is over for individuals on leftypol.

No fucking zitti now

>>2652640
>These are disorganized protestors who are individuals confronting themselves with the reality of their own political subjugation under bourgeois rule.
Every revolutionary movement starts as unorganized protests where people meet and network and form smaller orgs that eventually merge into larger ones. To look at the beginnings of a revolution and say "this is doomed to fail because you don't have mass organization yet" is just a backwards reading of history. The October Revolution started with a bunch of angry peasants revolting, getting crushed, then using that experience to build off of and continuing to protest and revolt until the conditions were ripe to overthrow the Tsar 12 years later. Revolution is not a spontaneous event but a constant struggle.

>>2652641
If you try to apply theory to material praxis, you are creating a situation wherein you are bound to make mistakes, have set backs, and sustain real material risk. None of these are acceptable to the purity spiraling online activist. It is so much easier to debate geopolitical concepts that have almost no bearing on one's actual localist power structures online, then it is to engage with those local power structures. It is easier to attack those who do attempt to apply theory to material praxis for their lack of purity than it is to actually work towards praxis.

It is better to never be wrong and never achieve anything, than it is to be wrong and still make material gains of power while learning from your own mistakes. The former requires only study-level knowledge and quote memorization; the latter requires obtaining social capital and the willingness to get your hands dirty and potentially fail in front of your community. It means risking being embarrassed or being wrong. Online leftists represent a leftism of moral identity and symbolic protest. What we need to be building is a leftism of material strategy and power accumulation.

Not to mention that there's this assumption that everyone who uses this site is inherently "of the left", wherein there are people here who still use /pol/ and other right wing spaces. It would be a foolish thing to forget that those people from those spaces can use and by extension derail our own.

>>2652647
I've seen some people on reddit and other forums talk about how this new black panther group that's emerged over the last year must be an op because they are so open about their tactics and positions. Our magazine gets the same criticism. If we were serious we wouldn't be public or accessible. But if you actually read theory, especially black panther theory, then you'll know this:

>If these imposters would investigate the history of revolution, they would see that the vanguard group always starts out above ground and is later driven underground by the aggressor. The Cuban Revolution exemplifies this fact; when Fidel Castro started to resist the butcher Batista and the American running dogs, he started by speaking on the campus of the University of Havana in public. He was later driven to the hills. His impact upon the dispossessed people of Cuba was very great and received with much respect. When he went into secrecy, Cuban people searched him out. People went to the hills to find him and his band of twelve. Castro handled the revolutionary struggle correctly. If the Chinese Revolution is investigated, it will be seen that the Communist Party was quiet on the surface so that they would be able to muster support from the masses. There are many areas one can read about to learn the correct approach, such as the revolution in Kenya, the Algerian Revolution, Fanon’s THE WRETCHED OF THE EARTH, the Russian Revolution, the works of Chairman Mao Tse-tung, and a host of others.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/newton/1967/07/20.htm

>>2652629
>we should kill christians for believing retarded shit
>we should kill "christians" for lying about believing retarded shit
i don't see the problem, it's all the same in the end

>>2652479
The GDR sabotaged its own productive forces? When?

Productive forces means workers though. So you are saying we must sabotage the workers.

>>2652647
The bloody sunday protests were organised by workers beneath the backdrop of the 19th century industrial movements, moreover in a weakened tasrist state racked by historical contradictions that was overthrown by an intelligentsia that faced little to no opposition. A legacy of socialist trade unionism had existed within Europe for well over a century that had spread across the continent in conditions of severe deprivation.

These are protestors who have absolutely nothing in common other than moral outrage, who are facing off against an imperial war machine with absolutely no condition of class solidarity in a nation that has eventually crushed every worker's movement.

It's hilarious how in the desperate demand that your fantasies match reality you paint over the historical situation and present the most ephemeral breakdowns in the bourgeois social order as primed with revolutionary potential. You along with other retards such as >>2652652 are absolute retards with no coherent political education.

>>2652647
The Spartacists and CNT show such stumbling can just as well get your leftist movement completely crushed for decades at a time. The whole "trust the natural process" ideology is influenced by flawed anarchist though.
>>2652654
Didn't they have to pay reparations to the USSR for several decades?

>>2652663
>GDR pays reparations to USSR while NATO-backed Nazi West Germany doesn't

this is the essence of "muh reparations", the actual guilty party doesn't pay them, just guilty-feeling leftists

>>2652647
It is insane that you along with other morons in this thread will deny present circumstances in order to resolve your cognitive dissonance regarding the protests.

It is okay to accept these protests for what they are, mindless political reaction, whilst calling for actual organisation.

>>2652663
>The Spartacists and CNT show such stumbling can just as well get your leftist movement completely crushed for decades at a time. The whole "trust the natural process" ideology is influenced by flawed anarchist though.
Yeah but when you reach the point where a Left-wing revolution isn't just an "ideal" but an actual requirement for society to survive I kinda think we've gone past the point you should be afraid of failure. If we fail, we'll be massacred. If we don't try, we'll also be massacred. Either way, the killings will only last a few years before the government collapses on its own anyway because the God-King is an 80 year old diabetic.

>>2652666
>It is okay to accept these protests for what they are, mindless political reaction, whilst calling for actual organisation.
isn't that what anon said? Let's read:
>>2652647
>Every revolutionary movement starts as unorganized protests where people meet and network and form smaller orgs that eventually merge into larger ones.
Pretty much. You two agree. You just want to pretend you don't. You word things slightly differently but basically mean the same thing.

Lmao

>>2652680
everybodies the same height
besides

>>2652669
The bloody sunday protests weren't mindless political reaction; it was the eventual culmination in a long period of social decay in which a feudalist Russia was on the precipice of historical change in which its stagnation necessitated revolution. It was primarily due to the weakness of the Russian state that bloody sunday occurred.

These protests are the tantrums by the remnants of the social democratic movement in a political state that has consolidated power to the point that one faction has succeeded in shattering its opposition and is driving yet further in its centralisation of power.

If you believe these things to be the same, you are absolutely delusional.

>>2652653
Neither of those two things were the point I was making.

To make it more simple:
The situation is either one of two cases:
A) These are good people who only believe and support the things they do because they're being misguided by a religion. If it weren't for this religion, they wouldn't be bad. Therefore, if you could press a button to make them all atheists, the movement would disband tomorrow. So, the best course of action is to attack the religion.

B) These are evil pieces of shit whose beliefs are based mostly on their own hatred and spite. They attempt to cover up the odiousness of their beliefs by trying to make it seem like its all linked to deeper religious and spiritual convictions. If you could press a button to make them all atheists, exactly nothing would change because these aren't really religious beliefs at all. Therefore, attacking the religion is a waste of time and energy because you are going after a red herring, and could even be detrimental because it gives a appearance of merit to the red herring.

I am arguing that it is Case B.

>>2652686
you and anon are literally saying the same thing:

1. the current protests are disorganized
2. further organization is needed

>>2652692
Again, bloody sunday occured in a situation where the workers movement existed as an historical bloc.

This is not the case with these protests. They are driven by the sheer incredulity of moral offence at state sanctioned murder by that same entitled mentality which has driven them into an ideoloigcal gulf whereby they cannot reconcile their contradictory existence as workers and subjects of the bourgeois state.

There is no mass potential here other than that which gives rise to the basic conflict inherent in the confrontation between the classes and which principally gives rise to the capacity to agitate.

>>2652707
ok but you and the other anon agree that:

1. the current protests are disorganized
2. further organization is needed

>>2652626
>>2652628
I already accept that the centralization of powers is his end goal. My point is how is he going pacify the populace after doing so? If it’s by recreating the same conditions that started it and sharpening the class divide in the eyes of others I don’t see an end in sight. It’s not going to end with Minnesota because he hasn’t done anything to distract people from troops marching into their towns. He can strangle the liberal leadership until they cave but then you also have their heads now on the chopping block for the hoi polloi too. Ending the political theater of the liberals putting up a pseudoresistance only risks having the scales fall from their eyes. The sham keeps them inert.

>>2652686
>it was the eventual culmination in a long period of social decay in which a feudalist Russia was on the precipice of historical change in which its stagnation necessitated revolution. It was primarily due to the weakness of the Russian state that bloody sunday occurred.
bro literally describing the current US political situation for the last like 30 years and then follows it up with
>These protests are the tantrums by the remnants of the social democratic movement
but yeah I'm the one trolling for calling him out for being a concern troll.

>>2652690
I think if you just call rightoid pundits liars when they claim to be christian they will just peal clutch because they are the best in the world at lying about their own intentions. "well you can't REALLY prove my faith isn't authentic"

If you attack the religion directly as being retarded they get BTFO'd like the new atheists did to them
"haha you believe a boat held every animal on earth and a fish swallowed up a guy and a dude turned to salt"

>>2652667
>we've gone past the point you should be afraid of failure.
It's not about being afraid but having a better direction than a strike. Maybe after it fails we can really start convincing people to throw off the liberal and anarchist idiocy and become more militant.
>government collapses on its own anyway because the God-King is an 80 year old diabetic.
Don't count on it. When Trump dies if there is already a dictatorship in place they will use media to pump up the next leader as competent statesman who will clean up the country of terrorist antifa.
>>2652665
East Germans weren't really innocent and it's understandable why USSR demanded reparations at first. However, the capitalists started publicly pardoning Nazis by the 50s in order to fight communism while giving lots of financial support West Germany so the USSR should have dropped the reparations and focus on building the economy at that point.

>>2652733
The point isn't really to debate their religion, but to point out their real motivations and keep the conversation about that. As in, don't even take their claims of religious motivation seriously enough to even debate with them about it, except to maybe occasionally point out an inconsistency or hypocrisy to drive the point home that the religious talk is just smoke and mirrors.

>If you attack the religion directly as being retarded they get BTFO'd like the new atheists did to them
Except that the New Atheists failed. Badly. That's the whole point. They accomplished nothing. The United States is right now the most irreligious that it has ever been since people started tracking that sort of thing. It has stopped the right not a whit.

>>2652720
>My point is how is he going pacify the populace after doing so?
Sheer repression; there is no other answer except that to which the bureaucratic machinery has already been prepared for on the basis of its development as a police state, following the intergration of capital into its political organ of rule.

There is no end in sight because the measures that the state will take in enforcing the rule of law will be more brutal than those used by ICE, and will build upon every piece of legislature enacted following the war on terror for domestic pacification.

The instruments of class rule through its various media apparatus will simply be intensified to the point that any civil disorder will face surpression. Behind an increasingly militaristic agenda and a system of financial privileges afforded to the petite bourgeoisie for their continued support, the political landscape will be decimated by that same authoritarianism that Trump's supporters decry.

>>2652454
WTF, socially conservative comrade bros! Lenin is Malthusian eugenicist antinatalist pessimist anti-Christian values?!

>>2652756
i think the country becoming irreligious is the success of new atheism. the right is resorting to force because they no longer have cultural hegemony

>>2652757
I don't know if you're already aware of this but the more brutal the state's repression tactics get the more it affects the lives of everyday citizens. It's one thing when people just see ICE agents parked at schools and home depot to harass immigrants but it's another when the state has to crackdown not just on immigration but also any and all criticism of the regime, and then from there has to start eliminating aspects of "daily" life like elections or mass internet censorship or interstate travel/commerce just to maintain control. The more desperate they get to maintain power the more fragile their control becomes. There's no amount of citizens they can kill or imprison in a country with 300,000,000 people that will be enough to stop a revolution if the populace are radicalized. the hardest part is just getting the populace on your side, but Trump might just do that for us.

>>2652759
I would argue that the religious right had already mostly lost their cultural hegemony by the mid-2000s when New Atheism really started to take off.

>clavicular: "Yo Nick, I'm gonna bring some Girls over for you"

Nick fuentes - "Nah, I'm good"

>>2652763
It isn't about imprisoning the country but moderating the context of political thought such that the conditions may be created for the permanent use of its power based on a permanent state of exception.

>any and all criticism of the regime
It has quite literally already done this online; content feeds are moderated using military personnel and their intergration with the security state, and implicit content restrictions on social media companies that do not follow an acceptable political line are altered in such a way as to quite literally destroy opposing truths. This is to say nothing of the fact that said platforms are rife with Fascistic material which said companies actively sponsor.

>>2652773
>please don’t…
God, he’s so gay

>>2652775
The fact you can still access leftypol dot org without a vpn means the state hasn't gone far enough in censoring criticism of the regime tho. The more they push, the more frustrated the average citizen will become. They're aware of this which is why they only censor "mainstream" social media where large organizing can happen. But if people started mass organizing on decentralized platforms the government would have no choice but to crackdown on those communities as well.

The same principle applies irl. They are currently at the stage of low stakes, mostly performative displays of power to scare the vulnerable members of society into retreating. But as it escalates and starts to creep into the suburbs and disrupt the lives of the petit-bourgeois you'll start seeing more open resistance against the state. The crucial part is not letting the petit-boug hijack the movement into social democracy while still taking advantage of them to spread its message.

>>2652773
Nick want penis

>>2652759
The right does not depend on religion to produce sovereignity, at least not in the US. The right appeals to the base instincts of the atomized individual living in the imperial core who wants to keep their empire , and with it their welfare benefits. Once you remove morality and God(s) from the equation, as Nietzsche predicted the last man, the small man, маленький человек, to be a creature with flattened horizon and obsessed with validation from the system that coddled him

>>2652780
Gay Mexican Christian Nazi

>>2652713
real ACP footage (working 2025)

Are you doing fine in there, buddy? Do you need some help with that?

>>2652792
@grog put her in a bikini

>>2652528
if libs had any balls he would have actually been lynched

>>2652502
honeypot video, don't watch while logged in and using your normal IP.

>>2652773
saddest party i've ever fucking seen

>>2652713
Why do they all wear tight pants like that? In fact none of their suits fit

>>2652812
Probably some dumb trendy shit that's hip with the kids right now.

>>2652773
This year in the magazine we have plans to feature a variety of women as models. Of course the large majority of the internet left doesn't have any love for sex workers of any sort, and has a very puritan view of sexuality that I've always thought is alien to the reality of the masses, or atleast those engaged in alternative lifestyles. A lot of it is madonna/whore complex driven, and despite claims otherwise, many are restricted by their protestant christian views on these topics, even if they don't or never did identify as such, the superstructure still influences.

I want to create a strong juxaposition between the inceldom of the right wing, the redpill "men going their own way" misogyny that ultimately alienates young men from the very thing they seek with a sex positive narrative that says "look at the life style you could have if you had some fucking principles". I have never really liked the puritan outlook the online left has on social workers (read: you can get banned from the deprogram subreddit if you are one). Literally have been approached by numerous women about being in the magazine, all ideologically aligned women mind you, and I've consistently made the editorial choice to turn this down. I've always been afraid of allegations of "working for the male gaze" or "male chauvism" in regards to doing that, while also fearing the backlash from the online left for having that sort of content in the magazine.

But I know a few women who would love to do that sort of thing for the magazine, and my literal editorial partner is a lesbian woman telling me that its a good idea, so you know, fuck it, let's do it. Being a rightoid is so uncool.

average democrat

>>2652773
This uygha lookin' ZESTY, this uygha lookin' MOIST, he's got sugar in his tank, he's light on his feet, he's a Ill bit fruity, he plays for the other team, he dances at the other end of the ballroom, this uygha theatrical, this uygha good with colors, this uygha gonna coordinate yo curtains wit you cushions and that shit gonna look good! This uygha lifts shirts, this uygha on the down low, this uygha be a tollet trader, this uygha gardens uphill, this uygha packs fudge, he's a friend of Dorothy, he feels the love that dare not speak Its name, he loves to dance, he's of the Uranian brotherhood, he indulges in the French vice, he has an antipathic sexual Instinct, he's fluent in Polari, he's a refugee from Sodom, he's on the wrong bus, he bats for the other team, he's temperamental, he's 'one of them if you catch my drift.

>>2652628
>literally arguing AGAINST striking because it might provoke a police response
The fucking audacity you have to call yourself a Marxist and talk down to other socialists is astonishing. You are sincerely suggesting that workers should passively submit to the forces of reaction because otherwise the forces of reaction might get even meaner. You are a reactionary to your bone.

>>2652830
And it's not even in a tactical sense, not even in an "we should avoid X tactic because it is ultimately adventurist or in the long term negates our power building". It's purely doomerism and nihilism wrapped up in a blanket of "realism", as if having no hope is the most realistic option of them all.

Gramsci died in prison but was still an optimist of the fucking will.

>>2652640
The planned strike action has been endorsed by practically every Twin Cities union local. Any political party that even attempts to call itself Marxist is supportive of the move. Your completely unwarranted arrogance is nauseating. You clearly have little to no familiarity with what's actually happening in Minnesota and yet you suggest that anyone who doesn't endorse your proposed "tactic" of passively allowing themselves to be trampled under the boot of Trump's Gestapo is "denying reality".

>>2652835
My patience for doomers is running so fucking thin man. It was one thing to be a doomer in the 90s or the 2000s when militancy and class consciousness were all all-time lows, but we don't have time for that shit anymore. Conditions are quickly approaching revolutionary levels and so many of the "left" just want to plug their ears and pretend there's nothing any of us can do.

>>2652524
I'm pretty sure the white supremacist closing his eyes and searching for a safe space is a Jew. Not the Alex stein lolcow type of troll but an agitator all the same. Speaking of Jews, it looks like the people are getting wise to Michael Cohen's role in the epstein coverup. And for the last time, the male accuser of the cabal is a plant, the stories are phony, it's a rabbit hole to nowhere. There are plenty of victims on record with legal counsel 'in the files', the riley thing is a ridiculous distraction to discredit the survivors.
>>2652825
PAMELA, I am no longer attracted to you anymore… NOT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wPHxQMgdKs

>>2652839
I have always maintained a strong sense of revolutionary optimism and the only times it's challenged is when I effortpost about legitimate theory and legitimate lessons I've learned through my own experiences organizing, only to be met with AI-slop level responses telling me to kill myself.

It's as if those people have the ultimate goal of stopping any level of deeper discussion within these spaces, as if the zone is so flooded that the only thing you can count on when you try something is a "fuck you, I hope you fail".

All we can do is try, learn and try again. Praxis will not happen online, the best case use of the internet is in an Iskra sense, which is why I do what I do. Beyond that, this is more or less primarily a way to pass the time. There are people here who have donated to me/the magazine, and I was voted favorite namefag, so I can only assume this space has some level of real motherfuckers who are lurking and attempting praxis in the real world. Still, the constant doomerism/grillpilled nonsense is discouraging.

>>2652528
I was just literally LYNCHED
god i wish

hopefully they raise that $20,000 from rightoids and then get lynched.

How many people would you need to crisis-act a fake beating and grift booj rightoids?

>>2652847
At this point I am more interested in what needs to happen for liberals to be shaken out of their condition. Especially considering how naked the imperium has been acting in the Trumpian era.
By the leaked ICE documents the civil war is already on going and libs are still bitchposting about civility and restraint.

GREENLAND STATUS. IS THE HAPPENING GONNA HAPPEN

>>2652854
I doubt it. A new world order is emerging and the us won't be leading it. Also Donny's Achilles heel, the epstein case, isn't going away. A lot of the threats serve as distraction but I have a feeling the Senate will eventually have no other choice but to shut him down.

>>2652852


The most blood boiling thing has been all these liberals posting about how the police need to step up and side with the protestors against ICE. The police need to be out here protecting the people! Call the National Guard!

Are we a nation of goldfish? Does this shit not sound absolutely fucking ridiculous to anyone who was on the streets in the summer of 2020? To anyone who chanted "Abolish the police!"? And now, you have these same ratfink fucks talking about how we need to INCREASE, yes increase ICE funding so they can get proper police training! Sorry Chuck, but flashbanging newborns is PROPER POLICING IN THIS PRISON HOUSE OF NATIONS! Oh yes, I cannot wait to hear about how "abolish ICE" is an "unelectable cause" and so we should focus on "reform". Let's get them some body cameras so they can livestream the brutality Gaza style!

The goal is to normalize apartheid-style violence against one group, while hoping another group can be swayed by "normality" and consumerism. They want you to turn a blind eye to the struggles of Black and Brown people in this country so you can go get another matcha.

We cannot go back to brunch. We cannot stand by and let people be disappeared. People in America should look into what Pinochet did to dissenters under his rule. He would take them on helicopter rides and dump them, alive, into the ocean. He would publicly execute people to send a message. He would send death squads to places where dissenters, union organizers, and other leftists gathered, and kill them. There are active concentration camps in America right now. There are rumors that the regime is using ICE abductees to test things like Elon Musk's Neuralink. The average German did not know the horrors of the concentration camps until after they were liberated. Even in the age of information, it is safe to assume we do not have a full picture of the cruelty being inflicted in these death camps.

There are still people who think this is a "Trump" problem and blame those who didn't vote for Kamala for this, as if Kamala's number one campaign promise wasn't more ICE, more border patrol, and creating the "most lethal" military possible. Every single administration has supported increasing funding for ICE. The oppression of the worker and the fomentation of race-war politics is bipartisan, only masked by "decorum." America has been a fascist country long before Trump was elected—just ask anyone who lives on the rez, in the hood, or in the barrio.

I know damn well that a lot of these liberals do not care about the families being separated, or the inhumanity, or the cruelty, or the murdering of civilians, or the IDF training both ICE and our domestic police. They only care about the optics. Can’t you send people to camps a little quieter, a little nicer, with a little more decorum? So we can get back to brunch, please?

>>2652854
Funny market fluxes first.

>>2652860
>a new world order is emerging
the center cannot hold

>>2652867
Less words do better.

>>2652868
>the center cannot hold
I don't know what you mean. Since Donny is breaking treaties and in violation of the Constitution, the broken alliances has always meant new ones will be made between other nations who oppose the bully tactics of regime.
The courts and legislature in this country are ineffectual in their response, where one isn't lacking altogether. I don't understand what 'center' is supposed to be, but I acknowledge the void. Neither party has any leadership worth a damn.

>>2652883
The old world is refusing to die and the new one is struggling to be born.
It is not a done deal.

I was quoting a famous poem about the Irish struggle against British aggression.

>>2652868
William Butler Yeats?
I was always fond of this one by William Blake..

I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen:
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut,
And 'Thou shalt not' writ over the door;
So I turn'd to the Garden of Love,
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tomb-stones where flowers should be:
And Priests in black gowns, were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars, my joys & desires.

>>2652884
Yeah, I figured it out last minute.
Good point, btw.

>>2652860
>Donny's Achilles heel, the epstein case, isn't going away.
This isn't the 1970s anymore when the president could actually feel compelled to resign. Trump is also in charge of the Department of Justice and the FBI so any real evidence against him has long been destroyed or tampered with. The case is dead unfortunately.
>>2652883
Trump controls the executive and military so he can ignore the courts and legislature all he wants. Communists want to establish a new state to deal with these issues.

>>2652887
Oh rascal children of Gaza,

You who constantly disturbed me with your screams under my window,

You who filled every morning with rush and chaos,

You who broke my vase and stole the lonely flower on my balcony,

Come back –

And scream as you want,

And break all the vases,

Steal all the flowers,

Come back,

Just come back…

Khaled Juma

>>2652891
Pleasant exchange, Anon. Don't worry about it.

>>2652893
Yeah, it's not the '70s. I was thinking the Senate would be compelled to convict after a third impeachment. Of course Donny won't go willingly.
>>2652894
>Don't worry about it.
I never do. ;)
Have a good one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mwCmlaupkY

>>2652952
His kids go to school, his wife's name is publicly available. His parents probably have jobs, if not, they have addresses. Almost all needed information is publicly accessible.

>>2652961
>comparing a random cop to the romanovs
>or implying violence against his family would be of any value
genuinely fed tier. >>2652517 was correct about you

Erik Houdini, known radical, terrorist sympathizer and "anti-capitalist" was pronounced dead at the scene on February 17th 2026, after police raided his motel room. Purely in self defense, police fired 125 rounds from their handguns, striking and killing Erik Houdini as he lay asleep in his motel, along with another innocent civilian quartering the room next to them. We are still waiting for police reports at this time, but we will continue to follow up on this news as it develops.
-CBS

>>2652969
Violence is when you deny someone healthcare, and they die from a treatable illness because they couldn't afford the bill. Violence is evicting a family because rent costs are through the roof, leaving kids sleeping in cars. Violence is a knee surgery denied by insurance that leaves a worker crippled, their family homeless, their lives destroyed.

This violence is acceptable, but anyone advocating for a response? Immoral, unfit for leadership, uncouth, not- sanctified. When the state kills, it's policy. When the people fight back, it's a crime.

>>2652983
Generic slogans as if I were a pacifist and that you needed to convince me that revolutionary violence is useful?? A family massacre of a pig enjoying 15 minutes of fame is not a serious strategy.

Mods permaban houdini

Nothing ever happens

>>2652993
mods permaban this uyghur

>>2652995
No. Mods permaban this one also

Mods permaban the world.

>be me
>make a new reddit account
>post 1 thing that's anti-ice
>get permabanned

My IG is also currently shadowbanned, usually get 70+ views for my story, started posting actual ICE footage, shit's down to less than 20
the only engagement I got with the post I made, which I made a reddit account in order to post

It is very demoralizing I won't lie, it seems no matter which platform I engage with, the response to effort posting is the same. At best I will be ignored, at worst I'll be told to kill myself and to stop trying. The combination of capitalist platform repression with fellow leftist attacks makes it seem like approaching the vampire's castle is simply a waste of time.

>>2653003
>looks at image
houndini no offense….you lack people skills

>>2653003
EVEN FUCKING XITTER DOESNT WORKO NVPN

FUCK THIS FUCKING ZOGNET


Because of all of this motherfucking censrship irnically its mageboards and discuck all there is left!!!!!fuck

>>2653003
fuck this gay jewish interet in 2k26

rddit
4cuck
xitter
its all fuckingshit and not working!

Trump is off to an early start this morning

>>2653035
pls just do the insurrection act. Pls, I beg of you. Do the maximum funny

Houdini is an anti-communist pro-lumpen-hooligan wrecker. He encouraged the freeing of Tay-K, a dangerous enemy of the worker. He encouraged women to self abort by shoving bicycle spokes in their genitals. He encourages stealing from grocery stores (no that's not 'harming the petit bourgeoisie', that is resolutely anti-proletarian behaviour). His decentralised rhizomatic nonsense is just excuse for random chim outs and looting. He was in bed with a nazi and his 'comrades' excommunicated him for this. He manipulates and extorts his goth girl entourage.

He has a good sense of aesthetics, too bad he uses it against the proletariat, in favour of the lumpen animals. Repent, Houdini.

>>2653039
holy larp

Permaban houdini though

be honest with me back in 2016. Did you think trump would do the things he did. Or did you expect the status quo to continue

>>2653050
Status quo to continue

>>2652620
>Engels was talking about how it is irrelevant whether capitalist countries use tariffs or free trade, because it can only buy them time, not save them from destruction.
Lenin said the soviet tariff system needed to be expanded to develop the productive forces. This is what truth social users say. Mass line is always right
> irrelevant because early Soviet Russia was a poorly developed and half destroyed country that needed to build up productive forces and protect itself from capitalist penetration, America is not
Not for long. Ww3 is imminent.

>>2653050
>Did you think trump would do the things he did
10 years ago.
damn, I was a 27 yo naive person. I'd say, I believe only a small portion because I didn't know he was rich thanks to exploiting tax loopholes, which automatically makes you a fucking bitch capable of lying with everything else.

>>2653098
Tax evasion is praxis though

Dialectics status?

>>2653036
>>2653041
amen

>Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, Sneako, Tristan Tate, Clavicular, Myron, and Justin Waller arrive at the club playing Ye’s banned song
>andrew and tristan tate are both half black
>myron is black
>sneako is half black (i think) and have asian
only white dude here is clav kek

>>2652536
i wish libtards were as based as MAGAts make them out to be

>>2653128
Nikita Fuentes always manages to be the awkward little goblin in the corner. He's not a 'party-type' to say the least.

Also,
>non-white
>nazi
No contradiction, tbh. It was always about imperialism and (forever changing) scape-goat generation based on pseudo-scientific racism.

>>2653128
this is like the pov of some fever dream from that time you were so ill you thought you might die. I feel psychosomatically unwell just watching this.

>>2653128
I still think the song is funny and catchy ngl

>>2653132
nick is only 25% non-white so at least he has some reason to cope and say hes white as for the rest its laughable

>>2653142
its only funny cause kanye is a mentally unwell bipolar retard with no real friends. its sad if anthing tbh noone in his life really cares to help him and the who did used to help are dead or dont want anything to do with him

>>2653157
>palestine + ukraine
someone post the pic

>>2652837
Why do you morons seem to always insist that reconciling with the common reality as to the state of disorganization of these protestors means accepting what is happening. Likewise that you think the union bargainning tactics of endorsing the strikes are anything more than duplicitous attempts by a waning political faction are somehow revolutionary.

Cucked beyond belief

>Noooooooooo you aren't Marxist it's a shutdown endorsed by the unions
>It doesn't matter that they lack the political will to sustain the action
>Noooooooooo it's another bloody sunday

Wake the fuck up; the country is descending into Fascism under a bonapartist regime that has both the capacity and authority to invoke and deploy troops on state ground in order to quell dissent

>>2653167
hey buddy, you just blow in from stupid town?

>>2653101
they don't evade taxes. they exploit specific loopholes designed by the rich for the rich. you would, and will never enjoy those privileges on your entire life.

>>2653174
idz anuddah 4th of july :DDDDDDDDDD

Covil war status?
Eg status?
Steak status?
Honk status?
Status status?

Stinky rotten bait

>>2652712
Except “further organization” is a pipe dream because the American left fundamentally benefits from the rape and exploitation of the imperial periphery and would rather die than actually apply a materialist analysis and risk losing their treats. The other anon is right, this is just another in a series of embarrassing liberal temper tantrums where social rejects will wear expensive custom fursuits and dance as an act of “resistance” and their association with communism will only serve to set the real movement back

that guy really is an attention whore

>>2652528
bitch got smacked

>>2653213
I’ll be sure to laugh when you and your fellow frog costume radlibs get gunned down by the military. Absolute retards all of you

>>2653214
>the people who do nothing but bitch and troll online are calling others ineffectual in their political praxis

Your posting will cyberbully the bourgeoisie into suicide any year now!

>>2653219
I don’t need to do shit when the PRC is winning simply by virtue of focusing on themselves and building up their productive forces. Put simply, if a revolution were possible in Amerikkka it would have happened back in the 60’s at the latest. Instead you got hippies. Keep coping!

>>2653192
>Comrade Maduro
>Comrade
he is not a communist

>>2653232
fuck off

Oh hey look chagos is awake! Time for the thread to suck complete shit for the next 8 hours until he falls asleep again. Remember he definitely has a job and is a real prole who definitely lives on a third world island somewhere and speaks perfect english somehow!

>>2653226
he is Trotskyite. he's communist.

>>2653230
Why are you faggots so fucking committed to this childish and bleak mentality of performative action.

These protests are the political tantrums of workers who, like good slaves, having voted for a longer whip now find themselves on the other end of its lash.

>>2653242
>ives on a third world island somewhere and speaks perfect english somehow!
that's very racist and classist, you dumb bitch.

>>2653252
They can’t help it, they’re addicted to losing

>>2653258
inb4
>I do have a job, it's posting here

>>2653246
>valor-stealing
spooky

>>2653278
>playing semantics to dodge the point
Pathetique

>>2653260
It is childish; the political resistance by which the protests stand is on the remnants of the democrat activist base, composed of those members of the petite bourgeoisie who are simply enraged at having lost their personal fortunes under the hands of Trump.

Beyond the infantile lexicon of "community" and "resistance" there are no calls for class solidarity.

Those workers who have woken up to find that their cities are now swarming with the jackboots of the military state do so with tears in their eyes as they recognise they must place before themselves either the deicision to surrender every illusion of life under capitalism or engage in yet further performative action fueled by the political delusions of those narcissists who seek simply to restore the old order and with it the democrats back into power.

>>2653170
Not fascism shut up.

The comment sections on Fox News articles about this Greenland shit are all criticizing Trump over it. There’s major conservative politicians publicly stating they’re opposed to Trump annexing Greenland. There is a rare bipartisan consensus that Trump is acting like a retard here. Why is he still pursuing it? It’s not gonna happen and is just embarrassing him.

>>2653249
walking up to ICE with your birth certificate taped to your chest and 3 additional copies at home, and just doing the worst impression of an Indian accent they've ever heard.

>>2653291
let's fucking go

>>2653287
Trump I think is an example of a petty bourgeois movement similar to fascism which has yet to be fully disciplined and purged of its unruly elements by the ruling class. Like the Nazis before the Night of the Long Knives, but its taking an unusually long time for him to be reigned in. I don't subscribe to Great Man theories, but I think in this case it's at least in part an issue of he himself being a vulgar lout of the type that would normally be purged by such a movement. The real test will come if he actually orders an attack on Greenland. This will be a moment of truth that reveals the real balance of power between MAGA's petty bourgeois mass base and the American ruling class. The last such incident was January 6th, where American capital demonstrated that it was quite happy with its liberal republic and didn't want a bunch of hooting chud swine crowning Trump as king.

>>2653290
You, like these workers, are slaves precisely because you refuse to see your position for what it is; the bars of your cage are the limits of your world, and with it the end of the possibility in freedom.

>>2653290
How’s CHAZ doing?

>>2653283
Read "What is to be Done?" pls comrade.

>>2653252
> workers who, like good slaves, having voted for a longer whip
why is this the eternal cope from you annoying faggots? the systemic critique is that people are only given bad options so of course they either don't vote at all or they pick what they think is "less bad". If your ire was actually aimed at the system, you would be marxist, but your criticism is rather aimed at individuals, because "how dare they vote for a longer whip" even though a good number of them don't vote at all. You have no criticisms of the system itself, and infinite criticism for random people. It's obviously derailing at this point. I was able to time one of you the other day. posting nonstop without interruption for 10 hours straight, making the same circular talking points. I went to work and came back, scrolled up, and found 60+ posts from the "island prole" who shall not be named scattered over about 10 hours. He spent 10 hours on here while supposedly being employed and oppressed. We can all guess that his job is posting on here. Never have I seen someone more dedicated to a pointless task. It is the same with Iron Felix. Endless moral indignation that the people he is talking to are supposedly "Iredeemable" (Christian nonsense) fascists who don't share his class interests… if that's the case you shouldn't be talking to them at all? But apparently you just can't help yourself.

>>2653300
Completely irrelevant to the imperial core where revolution is impossible but you already knew that

Le workers must not join le popular fronts. Le workers must not join le bourgeoisie.
>trump le king
>waaah trump is retvrning to le previous reactionary stage waaaaah
>we must unite against le fascism waaaahh
You guys are stalinists

>>2653305
Permaban this guy

>>2653282
explain without appealing to spooks like "valor" and "morality" how "valor stealing" is "immoral. "

It is impossible.

>>2653305
Shut the fuck up popular fronts suck ass

>>2653307
Sorry I'm not a fed or a defeatist, so I don't "know" anything that would prompt me to abandon class struggle or capitulate to the ruling class. If you just want to give up then fine but why bother whining here?

>>2653305
They’re LARPers with posting brain.

When they get mad at radlibs for being ineffectual and start raging about “treats”, it’s projection.

Getting to spend your day online posting is the ultimate treat

>>2653258
>Doxx yourself to prove to anon how employed you are
gay and retarded bait

>>2653313
>>2653316
btfo

>>2653312
I agree, this current crop of liberal temper tantrums desperately pretending to be le epic communist revolution is fueled by empty rhetoric and nothing else

>muh minnesota
Le defence of le fatherland thesis?

>>2653320
So true, fellow comrade

>>2653314
>I got called out for being a passive hypocrite so now I have to change the subject and make it about esoteric philosophical hobbyhorses

Fucking kek

>>2653315
>shut the fuck up purple is blue
thanks for making an irrelevant point that anon wasn't even talking about

>>2653324
but i wasn't the anon who made the post about the PRC you massive retard

Why do you guys talk like you are party members? None of you will do shit.

>>2653326
>running interference for a LARPer by making it about a totally different topic
Pfffhaha that’s even worse

>>2653329
half of us are physically separated from real struggle by distance/disability/circumstance, the other half are the same person with different IPs paid by anti-communist intelligence to derail the conversation. Neither of us are allowed to acknowledge that without risking getting banned. Are you new here?

>>2653330
Yeah the kid who was permanently blinded a few days ago by the brown shirts is a larper.

>>2653305
It is aimed at the system, precisely because what capitalist society reproduces is a population of workers in its own image, i.e. the bourgeois subject.

What now stands before these protestors is the reality of that system of class rule from which they previously profited; this is not vengence, but the benchmark from which the situation must be judged. There are no calls for class solidarity, and the end to their organisation is a political resistance that simply seeks to serve a defeated bourgeois party base.

You shit and piss and scream when anyone dares to point out what these protests are because with it buckles the entire confederation in thought which has long propped up the delusions of the American left to power in doing nothing but conceding to the establishment parties nothing but a voter share.

By all means, cry as much as you like. In the end, these protests will end, you will be forced to reconcile with the abject failure of that political union of a left which has been commandered by the interests of a class that will never submit to the socialist demands, and you will watch as the Republicans and the party state move from strength to strength, all the while decrying the injustice of it.

All of you are communist!

That is the most important status symbol to you so let me say that right off the bat.

You will always be communist! YWABC

But!

none of you are active, coherent, scientific, patient, smart, employed, relevant, educated, organized, communicative, pleasant, friendly, attractive, joyful, alive, generous, brave, strong, sincere, empathetic, fun, affectionate, attentive, cooperative, forgiving, charismatic, diplomatic, hospitable, efficient, genuine, helpful, remorseful, tactful, warm, polite, or witty.

You are such annoying brats that it doesn't matter how communist you are, nobody will ever like you, take your advice, or work with you.

Where is that guy who was just posting news constantly? That was the most productive this thread ever was. Kept us relatively on topic

>>2653335
>>2653335
>pure crayon-eating, lead-drinking retardation
I was defending you…

>>2653339
go outside and say these things to them instead of feeling smug on an imageboard if your critique is so systemic

>>2653346
that's what you get for defending trolls

>>2653339
Now le real class struggle in america le begins huh? Now le workers will wake up huh?

>>2653350
you have no power over the amount of cabbage in soup, nor will you ever if you keep posting from your cursed island.

>>2653347
It is the reality that is unfolding before you; these are slaves who in being used to calling themselves free citizens find to their horror that someone has dared to pull their chains.

>>2653352
>>2653354
>i won't go outside
got it

>>2653336
you're talking to edgelords who will never risk themselves beyond smugposting

>>2653358
Good. Do you think that makes me mad?

>>2653357
Man say something substantial and explanatory will you?

>>2653361
see >>2653340

>>2653339
>There are no calls for class solidarity, and the end to their organisation is a political resistance that simply seeks to serve a defeated bourgeois party base.
Damn, if only somebody wrote an entire book about how workers never achieve class consciousness spontaneously, and that rather than waiting for this to happen communists should form a vanguard party and actively work to construct class consciousness among non-communists on the basis of whatever struggles and grievances currently exist between labour and capital.

>>2653348
I am sorry, but I don't think that saying that people in the third world can't learn proper English should be allowed.

>>2653363
But class consciousness only resides in party always and nowhere else, though

>>2653363
There is no vanguard in America you miserable little cretin. These protests are being orientated by the remains of the petite bourgeoisie who have been ousted from power and simply seek to enact vengance upon the political state with no real design for winning power other than through reelection.

You absolute toad.

>>2653363
Hmm, I dont know sweetie, sounds like voluntaristic LARP to me.

>>2653366
America is destined to be communist because it's a capitalist society. In this sense it isn't special, but is just like every other capitalist society.

>>2653368
Which means you as a communist should take this opportunity to try to build one, cretin.

>>2653363
There are probably commies out there showing le workers why this is le wrong way to do it.

>>2653368
>There is no vanguard in America you miserable little cretin.
So form one.

>>2653373
One does not build a party.

>>2653375
Isnt vanguard just a most advanced part of soyciety? How do you form that which already exists?

Why build a party? There is a party. It was formed in Marx's time.

I would like to remind mods of their ordinance no. 4:
>'Real Proletarian' rhetoric which implies a large percentage of wage workers are not proletarians is banned - per modocracy vote passed on 2024-12-25
Please clean this tread of saboteurs.

>>2653380
>the fact of the matter the “working class” in the west overwhelmingly benefits from imperialism and would quite literally die rather than give up their treats
Oh my mistake I didn't realize you had brain damage.
>This wave of liberal temper tantrums doesn’t have a bone of class struggle
You understand that class struggle continues even in the absence of class consciousness yes? Where ever labour and capital come into conflict due to opposed interests (such as the repressive agents of the bourgeois state terrorizing migrant workers and workers pushing back against this) there is class struggle. Wherever there is class struggle communists should be going out to build class consciousness. I get it, you just want us all to give up because you're either a coward or a glowie. But please, if all you're going to do is nay say and tell us how its all hopeless, just don't. At best you're doing the work of the feds for free.

>>2653387
>That only applies to actual civilizational states
Damn that's crazy. Where does Marx or any other communist theorist or revolutionary say this?

>>2653386
Communists dont build class consciousness. They are class conscious as a party. No individual is class conscious, only party is. Class consciousness cant be imparted

>>2653385
Wont happen. People argue about the meaning of "proletariat" all the time

>>2653391
The absolute fucking state of this place. Remember comrades, ignore this nonsense and follow the advice of people who have actually achieved something.
<As for people who are politically backward, Communists should not slight or despise them, but should befriend them, unite with them, convince them and encourage them to go forward.
t. Mao

>>2653393
Revisionists try to obfuscate but Marx and Engels are very clear. If you produce surplus value for a capitalist you are a productive worker. If you derive your living from wage labour you are a proletarian.

>>2653394
Communists form cells and fractions in trade unions. Trade unions are not party organizations. Communists guide the class struggle and do subversive work through agitation.

>>2653386
>class consciousness
This is precluded in the present situation principally because these protests are a vehicle by which the remaining democratic administrations are attempting to launch a hopeless retaliation against Trump with no real intent to advocate for any cause other than their own.

>>2653402
Thus the demands of these protestors are not for socialism, or healthcare, but again merely a blind reaction against an overwhelming application of force.

The very same use of force which for the past twenty years has secured their standards of living.

>>2653389
They get this from Dugin, not Marx

>>2653402
But the democratic party leadership has not been supportive of these protests, exact opposite.

>>2653402
Anon you keep saying the same thing over and over, and it amounts to "These demonstrators aren't class conscious so communists shouldn't bother engaging with them." That's literally the opposite of what we should be doing. They aren't class conscious, they're liberals, they're captured by the Democratic Party apparatus etc. These are all true, and it's precisely why communists should be participating! We need to go speak to these people, help them achieve their most immediate goals of driving ICE out of their communities. We need to be on hand to denouncd and expose the inevitable Democratic Party betrayals. We need to earn their respect and admiration so that they actually listen to us when we do this, or when we educate them on how their immediate problems are inextricably linked to capitalism and the bourgeois order. If we follow your logic then we will be sitting around doing nothing forever, because without this kind of basic party work then every outbreak of unrest will lack class consciousness, will be captured by the Dems, and will remain that way. The only way to change this is to get out there and do our jobs.

>>2653394
What is your objection to the theses that only the party is class conscious? Didnt lenin like went against the workers soviets/councils at some point?

>>2653192
I haven't forgotten about him. He is in a Maximum security prison in the USA. Some have limply protested his detainment. I don't think it is possible to bust him out without getting myself or him killed if that is what you are suggesting "we" do.

>>2653411
The leadership does not care one iota for its base; instead the major source of frustration appears in the city councils and locally devolved officials, as well as the those organs of political rule which have lost power to Trump.

>>2653407
>The very same use of force which for the past twenty years has secured their standards of living.
Damn it's almost like any privileges workers get as a result of imperialism are insecure and fleeting, and that the repressive measures of imperialism are always eventually turned back against the workers of the metropole.

>>2653232
i do the same thing you do. i yell at american chauvinists online

>>2653416
You are opportunist.

>>2653407
holy shit, westerners really can't win, whatever western left wingers do, the mtw retards (also westerners) will claim it's not good enough, even though they do nothing themselves

one liberal winemom that goes out and protests police violence is more useful to the movement than 1000 snide marxists who just sit online and try and find 'the perfect theory' before they do anything

>>2653413
The vanguard party is formed from those people who have achieved class consciousness, but its purpose is to construct class consciousness among the broad masses of workers. So I dont object to that thesis, but you're missing the other half.

>>2653423
Party has already emerged from Marx's time. Why do you want to create a new party?

>>2653426
idk bro, do protests, try to run socialist candidates, train with guns some of them. some guy set himself on fire to protest imperialism but MTW types just made fun of him.

what do MTWs (in the west) do?

>>2653423
Individual does not achieve class consciousness. You are not class conscious. I am not. None of us are. Only party is. And that makes party indespensable. If an individual could achieve consciousness thered be no need for party.

>>2653421
It isn't about not winning, it's the fact that the protests themselves are rallying in defence of their municipal governors out of a shared interest in protecting their state administration from the overwhelming use of federal authority and the intervention in its affairs.

The inciting cause for the protests are nothing more than the defence against a slowly prevailing order which its citizens and state legislature are helpless to turn back. The fact that one anon compared these protests to bloody sunday is absolutely hilarious, as never more were protests organised out of institutional spite.

>>2653418
>because they fundamentally benefit from the rape and exploitation of the imperial periphery and they’re aware of it
Anon, this is total nonsense. No communist revolutionary ever postulated such a notion. Not Marx, not Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, etc. Modern Marxist economists like Micheal Roberts who formulated the theory of unequal exchange and extensively study modern imperialism explicitly reject it. In order to believe it you would have to believe in the possibility of permanent social peace between workers and capitalists, and reject basic Marxist concepts like the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, the inevitability of economic crises, etc. It would require you to have a completely temporally backwards view that ignores the fact that the victory of imperialism in the 1990s coincided with the dismantling of social democracy. It requires you to ignore documented economic trends of declining living standards. It's vibes based nonsense that falls apart under the slightest scrutiny.

>>2653433
not saying it changed the world but to make fun of it is just despicable.

>>2653432
the people crying about 'the west' are almost always westerners themselves, or some pampered elites from the second/third world who are basically western

like say you think class struggle in the core is impossible, why would you even waste time thinking about it? why not just go about your life? no, instead they just crow at everyone else about how they should be demoralised terminally-online losers like them that don't do anything but criticise

>>2653432
>. Of course since Americans think they’re the only country that exists
LITERALLY NOBODY SAID THAT NOBODY SAID THAT NOBODY SAID THAT NOBODY SAID THAT YOU NEVER FUCKING RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY SAY YOU JUST DERAIL THE CONVERSATION AND BRING IT BACK TO YOUR SAME 5 PREPACKAGED TALKING POINTS THAT YOU USE TO BOX PEOPLE IN SO YOU CAN SAY

> class struggle in the imperial core is a nonstarter

AND THEREFORE ANYONE WHO DOES NOTHING IS GUILTY AND EVERYONE WHO DOES SOMETHING IS ALSO GUILTY

YOUR ENTIRE WORLDVIEW IS BUILT AROUND SOME ETERNAL GUILT FOR BEING BORN SOMEWHERE

YOU ARE RELIGIOUS

>sandposter shows up
>the post count immediately triples
every time

>>2653437
the one time chagos has actually been sincere and positive…

>>2653435
I don't even know what that post means. It's transparently good for ICE not to be allowed to terrorise the entire country, it doesn't matter if some Democrat reps also want that

Reminder that sabocat is not class conscious. Dont listen to him.

>>2653418
>Again, these demonstrators cannot be made communist any more than you can make a tiger vegan because they fundamentally benefit from the rape and exploitation of the imperial periphery and they’re aware of it.
ok then what's the point of repeating this over and over again if it can't be changed. who are you trying to educate? a handful of irredeemable fascist revisionist opportunist treatlerites who "benefit"? what's the point of opening your mouth? you are wasting your time just like they are

>>2653437
>yank animals need to sacrifice their pleasure
Dehumanization + moralism = retardation

you literally believe in animal sacrifice to get what you want

you are religious

>>2653437
>yank animals need to sacrifice their pleasure for it
Capitalism will take those pleasures away, and if sending masked Gestapo to trample all over people, murder them in the streets, and disappear their neighbours isn't an example of that then I don't know what is.

Sabocat go join a party and do party work instead of wasting your time here. Or do you intend to start your own party?

>>2653424
>oh no. Much more savage force is unleashed on the rest of the world.
yes. and? i never disputed that. you will even try to "reeducate" people who already agree with you. This is why it's a race to the bottom with TWisters. even when you agree with them you aren't suffering enough, you haven't done enough self flagellation. they will only be happy when you're a corpse. it's death worship

>>2653450
>Capitalism will take those pleasures away
it's not happening fast enough for his pleasure, which is what this is all about

>>2653451
I'm a member of the Communist Party of Canada.
https://communist-party.ca/

>>2653449
i have never once set foot inside a church

Are these protests like BLM ones?

As an anon requested I will now be enforcing ordinance 4 ("real proletariat rhetoric") on /USApol/ and /ICEpol/. So give it a rest with the MTW shit. I will start banning people so that people who actually want to talk about the stuff happening can do so.

t. mod

>>2653444
Because the protests are themselves are nothing but opportunism in support of the Democratic establishment who, when the time comes, will simply attempt to use them as a means to leverage power over their opposition.

It is the result of an institutional corruption which has flared into an open conflict in which both sides feel no sympathy towards the protestors themselves.

>>2653454
basado

>>2653454
you guys need a better flag or you are NGMI, trust me on this

>>2653449
>oh the benefactors are a lot more than a handful, confused yank
by handful i mean the people on this website you stupid fucking faggot

you could literally go to reddit or 4klan and "hit" a lot more chauvinist "dogs" to make them "holler" but you choose here for some reason that you never explain why that is. the reason is because you are a CIA LLM designed only to derail ostensibly communist places

>>2653454
Does your party also work in america? Why dont you go do your work in canada?

>>2653461
This place isnt communist.

>>2653458
Can you elaborate? Why is there a conflict of interest?

>>2653457
he is a CIA LLM designed to derail and he always magically finds another IP address instantly and posts for 10 hours a day. if you guys can't ban him maybe imageboards just don't work.

>>2653463
>This place isnt communist.
yet there are even more explicitly anti communist places that you refuse to take your trolling to. you know why this is. because you are an anti communist troll meant to derail even the possibility of international class soldiarity and replace it with international antagonism and chuvinism.

>>2653466
>You are overly sentimental.
rich coming from you. you post moralist screeds for 10 hours a day at your supposed class enemy, begging them for mercy

>>2653462
>Does your party also work in america?
No, but we have official ties with the CPUSA that date to the Comintern days. Though if I were American I'd probably join PSL.
>Why dont you go do your work in canada?
I do. We're currently getting a program off the ground that helps workers navigate the legal system in labour disputes with their bosses, claim injury and other benefits, etc. This is just out latest local initiative in my area. Previously we've participated in strikes, mutual aid, Palestine stuff, Cuba solidarity work, anti-NATO agitation, etc.

>>2653463
yeah. it's just a den of LLM trolls who try to prevent communist discussion at all costs

>>2653467
My trolling consist of badly understood le icp theses.

>>2653473
I will say in your defense that you seem pretty sincere in your statements that you don't hate the first world you just hate Americans lmao.

>>2653469
burgerphobia is just a joke from the mods. go to some actual website run by (MUCH MORE NUMEROUS) american chauvinsits so you can make (MUCH MORE NUMEROUS) "hit dogs holler"

you will never do it because you are an LLM designed to troll this place and only this place

you are a robot that lives in a bunker in tel aviv

>>2653473
stupid LLM that's not even what I accused you of. get a new script

Beach factory status?

>>2653470
Can you as a communist explain to me, a non communist, the nature the cause of these protests?

>>2653474
he's not sincere at all. he makes rigged conversations where he's always right no matter what tact you take with him. that is the essence of trolling

Are american commies doing anything with these protests?

>>2653480
hes' not a communist and neither are the protests. you are the only real communist. you are right about everything and everyone else is a liberal chauvinist revisionist opportunist irredeemable fascist. That's what you wanted to hear, right? Take it or leave it.

>>2653480
It's pretty simple to me. Trump represents a fascistic petty bourgeois mass movement that wants to ethnically cleans the US. They're sending their brownshirts to round up migrants and both undocumented people and citizens resent the militarized state presence in their communities, leading to conflict.

>>2653482
americans are bad and not doing enough. that's what you wanted to hear, right?

>>2653485
you are always right about everything, nothing you say is wrong, and you should continue to interrupt conversations so you can repeat yourself 100 times with shit everyone has already heard before.

>>2653484
This explains it.

>>2653491
You know when I read through Capital by Marx there was no moralization against the British proletariat for not fighting their government harder when it came to things the British government were doing in Africa, for example. He understood that class interests manifested narrowly at first and only became international once developed. Rather than moralizing about it he made the international and tried to develop class consciousness, rather than scold workers.

>just type voluntarist and mindbreak everyone
That easy

>>2653495
a "communist" who spends hours every day begging his class enemies for mercy. pathetic.

>>2653504
>my persona here is provocative agitation.
wow, nobody realized that before

>>2653504
Agitation? How?

>>2653506
the more agitated you are, the more agitating he is, the more it counts as "agitation" simple as

What if the real voluntarists were the comrades we made along the way

Reminder

These protest are what?

>>2653449
facts & cultural nukes

Whats a praxis?

>>2653504
>is that you, archive-anon?
of course it's me. I've already told you before, I include william blum and the US atrocities list in the OP for a reason. people should be redirected there if they need to hear how bad burger land is in a straightforward way. Or maybe they can watch Ben Norton or Breakthrough News.

What you do is a FAR FAR FAR INFERIOR version of that. you educate nobody annoy everyone, and call it "agitation"

>>2653450
Capitalism will never take away "enjoyment" because its very existence demand this.

>>2653454 (And also a fucking idiot.)

>>2653510
We are pathological exceptions and dont represent average prole

>>2653516
>Capitalism will never take away "enjoyment"
ok thank you ayn rand

>>2653515
Permaban chagos?

What actual education about US atrocities looks like:

https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md

What Chagos style "agitation" looks like

>hurr durr shityank animal hurr durr

>>2653522
>you are too naive to understand me, anyway.
because you are so deep and complex

>>2653510
>>2653499
these two points really destroy his whole shtick, im pro treatlerite now

>>2653522
I didnt ask you

>>2653518
Attacking people who act in accordance with your moral compass or principles while you fail to do so, in order to makes yourself feel better about your complacency, is actually quite a common tendency.
There is a good paper about it that I would recommend anyone involved in leftist politics to read.
https://sci-hub.st/10.1177/1948550611415695