🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<"Minneapograd" Edition
>Don't worry, US government. This thread is NOT for planning proletarian revolution in the USA, it is just a never ending struggle session for making a small group of Americans on this website apologize for what their government did to the world. If they disagree, that only proves that they are guilty and they want to feel like victims. 🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.mdhttps://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list📺 Glowie News 📺
(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))
• CNN:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html• MSNBC:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/msnbc.html• FOX:
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/fox-news-channel.html• Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us🏚️ Local News 🏚️
https://www.50states.com/ce/✊Live Protest Streams✊
https://woke.net/🏝️ Epstein's Client List🏝️
https://epsteinsblackbook.com/https://www.justice.gov/epstein/doj-disclosures🇮🇱 Track Zionazis (warning: ShareBlue)🇮🇱
https://www.trackaipac.com/📖Read, Burgga, Read! 📖
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2sntNn5jQO8vF7ai9x0fna3PVWeeks as Decades Reading List
https://erikhoudini.com/weeksasdecadesreadinglistPrevious thread:
>>2650150Remember, legal + illegal struggle
Remember, praxis + theory
Remember, it's not impossible
none of you's a communist
all of you's a democrat
actual previous thread
>>2652430actual previous thread
>>2652430actual previous thread
>>2652430actual previous thread
>>2652430actual previous thread
>>2652430actual previous thread
>>2652430obligatory "you are all democrats, you are all imperialists" blah blah blah
>tfw no qt Chagos gf that whips me,calls me names, threatens to kill me, and attempts to break my will
How come the Black Panthers are the only ones in the country who actually use guns the way gun nuts claim they're for (fighting tyranny)?
>>2654061Because groups like SRA are NGOs and afraid of losing their status
@grok please put this F-18 in a bikini
>>2654066
Why are psychologists so insistent on using the retarded American definition of liberalism?
This is why psychology isn't considered a real science.
>>2654069>the retarded American definition of liberalism?because contrary to what communists think, most people use the retarded definitions of words, and communists have their own very special definitions of words like liberalism and imperialism which, not just in America, but everywhere else, run up against colloquial usage.
>>265405390+% of american posters on leftypol have voted at least once for democrats
you faggots spent the last 10 years critically supporting democrat candidates (bernie, aoc, mamdango) and now that you are finally called out on your behavior you act offended?
get the fuck out, you eternal victim
>>2654064it was an immaculate conception
>>2654065>F-18that's legal
F-13 is where it gets spicy
>>2654071you live in a bourgeois world where colloquial usage of everything is just bourgeois
Supposedly ICE is planning on targeting Philadelphia next. Given that a full 11% of their task force is having trouble maintaining control of Minneapolis, a city five times smaller and with a statewide reputation of being nice, I somehow sincerely doubt this is going to be anything but a long humiliation ritual
>>2654084wish my dad was like this, bro
>>2654082wow i didn't know that you're telling me now for the first time
>>2654073>90+% of american posters on leftypol have voted at least once for democratsdid you take a poll or are you pulling numbers out of your ass.
>>2654084>all those tabs openew.
>>2654071>most people>not just in America, but everywhere elseI know we're in USApol but holy fuck stop being so American.
Liberalism in everywhere else but America means center or center-right. Liberalism is the support of liberal capitalism, in particular private property rights and the "free market". It's only in America where liberalism ranges from Hillary Clinton to Karl Marx.
>>2654091I've been reading your posts for 10 years now, I'm pretty sure my estimate is accurate.
>>2654093the UK has a very burgertarded political spectrum
>>2654098did you ever vote for democrats, anon? did you ride the bernie train?
>>2654100Labor aristocracy is just a code term meaning "proles who make more money than me or have socially liberal attitudes"
>>2654097Even in the UK the Liberal Democrats are a centrist party.
Albeit Labor has decayed to the point that there are no mainstream left-of-center parties in the UK anymore.
>>2654103In its present meaning it refers to the disparity between positions of waged labour which have low levels of entry and subsequently low pay and those which are credentialized based on a system of educational privilege and material wealth.
The only consistent imperial-core communist party (to my knowledge) was the French communist party whom'st when the Algeria secession movement started openly admitted that they can not support their independence because their exploitation is in the interest of the French workers.
They didn't victimize themselves, they didn't go on a narcissistic tirade, they didn't do shit, just admitted facts.
When American "communists" arrive at this point, when they'll finally have the balls to be honest, then something might actually happen in Murrica.
>>2654114>They didn't victimize themselves, they didn't go on a narcissistic tiradethey would have if you were present and screaming at every one of their meetings about how they weren't anti imperialist enough and disrupting them
>>2654114God you people are such whiny babies you know that? There's a zillion rightoid and anti-communist spaces and you choose to go on tirades about how all American workers are ontologically evil and the fact that we reject being labeled evil by default proves that we're evil on an ostensibly leftist website in one of the few corners of the internet where American communists are actually present in meaningful amounts
How to troll /usapol/ 2026 guide
Step 1: Say something about America that's true and obviously common sense among communists
Step 2: Wait for someone to agree with you
Step 3: Tell them they don't agree with you
Step 4: Call them a liar and keep pushing their buttons until they sarcastically acquiesce to your accusations
Step 5: Declare victory and assert that their sarcastic acquiescence was a "mask off" moment where they showed their "true colors."
>>2654092If you don't have at least 10 tabs open what are you even doing?
>>2654120because they are CIA bot LLMs deployed to make you quit this place and go to reddit/discord where your posts can be linked back to your phone number.
>>2654119I mean who among us hasn't been a soilmaxxing texturetrianglepilled loamcel
>>2654120If you vote for democrats you are an anti-communist. Bernie is anti-communist. Mamdani is anti-communist. Chapo Trap House is anti-communist. You are anti-communist.
All of these sentences have been 100% factual. Have a nice day.
Trump is actually managing to win his victories. It wasn't a loss on Venezuela. It doesn't seem like Europe will do anything to prevent the annexation of Greenland. Gaza is getting sold. Syria is now aligned to Euro-Amerikkkan imperialism. ICE troops face no consequences and are going to push further. Cuba is getting no oil from Venezuela or Mexico.
>>2654134All factual realities which will cause the children here to cry, wail, and shit their nappies
>>2654137So true, we shouldn't do anything because all American communists are imperialists
>>2654140>if you call out anti-communists you are terminally onlinet. anti-communist
>>2654141and by "doing anything" we ofc mean voting democrat
>>2654143People here talk about a lot more than just "voting democrat", it just always gets shouted down by retards like you who insist on declaring everything a failure or in service to imperialism before it even starts.
I am a proud imperialist
I am a proud american chauvinist
non americans aren't humans
we will take over the whole world
try and stop us
you are an animal
i am going to kill you
i am going to rape you
i benefit from treats
i will kill you for more treats
what are you going to do about it? cry?
"Muh praxis"
This expression indicates the American communists confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted with something they cannot understand or respond to (such as the present historical forces of the social relations within bourgeois society), the American communist shouts "muh praxis", or "mutual aid", "imperialist". This is usually followed by calling others treatlerites and cherry picking quotes from Lenin.
>>2654120Just stop coming here. Nothing good happens here, and there is nothing here that will benefit you, your progress, the revolution or any attempts at building real life, in person power networks that can be used for revolution.
Essentially, coming to this site is like reading one of these fed letters they wrote for MLK, but by choice, under this assumption that you are in a space that is meant for leftist discussion. This is a space that is meant for leftist demoralization.
People are being executed in the streets by a para-military group, right now, and essentially all you will be told is that nothing can be done, and perhaps even that the "workers deserve it".
>>2654145>declaring everything a failureOWS was a failure
Bernie was a failure
BLM was a failure
Mamdani is a failure
anti-ICE is already a failure
have a nice day
>>2654146I salute the honest American.
>>2654153You are a capitalist.
>>2654151Really interesting that this one didn’t get a response
>>2654146you forgot to finish backspacing over your name
Holy shit this guy is pretentious
>>2654146>chagosposter forgot to finish deleting his nameAaaaahahahaha oh wow
>>2654166
Americans can't even look into a mirror without three pounds of makeup and bogged plastic surgery alien face, let alone self-crit
>>2654169it's praxis
don't ask me why, it's just is >>2654169>>2654153>>2654167>>2654175The Americans have resulted to false flagging
>>2654174>all americans do this thing i see on TVstop consooming amerikkkan media treatler
>>2654156That's unfair to Rebecca Black
>>2654179I can't. Hollywood culturally imperialized the world and the Chinese culture industry isn't competitive enough yet.
>>2654181What was the actual casualty of 9/11 if you include all that asbestos poisoning?
>>2654080>>2654073can you people not shit on using bourgeoisie tools against the bourgeoisie for once?
>>2654187being a semi-closeted gay nazi must be so tiresome
like, at some points, maybe after finishing his nazi streams, he must think "why am i doing this, why am i denying my most basic instincts"
and then he goes "for the money, stupid"
and then he goes to sleep lonely and sad
>>2654193media
is reality
>>2654187He looks so distraught touching that woman lmao
>>2654196>if I double down that makes it trueLmao no media hides reality, it’s a bullshit factory
>>2654200>no media hides realityi agree
>it’s a bullshit factoryi agree
>>2654202Then stop believing it.
>>2654188we don't know yet because cancer from asbestos inhalation usually manifests as malignant mesothelioma 30-50 years after the event.
>>2654203Just some free floating thoughts riffing on your thoughts.
just because you think that burgers are subhuman animals you don't necessarily want to kill burgers ("burgercide").
like, how I htink that cows are fucking delicious doesn't make me wanna kill a cow
i let the professionals handle it (farmers, butchers, etc.)
that you posted an japanese manga while saying you've truly become burger actually proves it
yes, on all levels except physical, you are burger
>>2654212watch the video lol
>>2654205interesting. seems like an OK deal, a good deal, a masterful deal indeed
>i get to bonb WTC>you get to bonb the middle east>30 years later, i get to bonb burger lungsit's as if the taliban pre-planned the revenge for invading the middle east in advance
very interesting, and a very good deal
Sonix was lately felling very much sad. He had very thin bony legs and a big belly. Like a pork chop. A potato of lard covered in beat fur. His secret crush was Gandalf, because gandalf was gay. And Sonic though that he could have a change to touch his wizard rod if he had six packs of pleasure for the wold wizerf to mastubate to.
So, Sox decided to aplly membert ship to a fine place of muscle creation, it was a a place where Broce Lee was created and turned kung fu.
"Hello, sadi Sonic to the pearson that was at the counter of the fine estabelishment", I want to geat big muscles, so I can impress Galf.
The person on the counter was a chinese man with a big penis. He was exbiting his enourmous member so no one thought he had a small ock.
"Yes, honerable hedgehoge, I will make your registration and please, do not touch my ock".
Sonic got tempted by the yellow penis, but he doesn't like chinese food.
Sonic them entered the place, and there where lot's of dumbells and heavy weight machines.
"Wow, now I can sculpt my body for that sexy wizard!"
Sony imediatle picked a 100 lbs dumblel and lifted it, but it was to heavy. So the dumblel fall on the groung and break his arm.
"AH!" screamed the poor hogdegod. Son9ix is broken and everyone looks and laughs at his stoopd. But one person in not amuzed. It's Dr. House:
"You ediot, what are you doing. You fucked up my trainign and now I have to that care of this piece of shit fat animal covered in spines"
"Sorry! I don't know what haped with me. I'am so stuped."
Dotcor Hiuser is a medic personal. He work s at Plains Boro hospital and cure cancer. But now he decided to take his life in another direction. After have a mistake happen and his leg being destroid by the bitch Cuddy who he loves but destroy his leg, Doctor hous got self fired from the hospital and went to find ew life beyond those cure doors.
>>2654066
Who would've thought growing up within a neoliberal hellhole where backstabbing, fake friendships, lying, increasing poverty, recessions, harassment and gaslighting causes neuroticism.
Doctor House them hired a mechanic, Dr Tony Stark, to fix his leg. Tony made a bionc leg to put inside his body. To do that, he use a saw and chopped houses leg off. But he chopped the wrong one, so he chopped the other one, and now Hosue has two legs made of aluminium.
"Come here Hedgepoge" says Hosus to Soniv, and the little ball of spines went in proximity of the mecal doctor "It seems you arms is broke. Bu I cam fis this."
Doit Hores them put aluminium legs over Soci arms, and the legs had fist-aids kit. The legs them propulsioned a couple of tentacles made of calcium to cure Sonic. And if workd!
"Thnaks Doiter Hose!"
"No thanks bitch, you have to pay." and Dro House stapled a medical pill over Snoics fore hed.
Now that everythnig is okay, Hosue went away, and Soni need to rest. So he went to sauna. Butt, after he opened the dooor, he had a madly surpreise:
"Oh no! Doctr Robtonic!" and Sonic the Herdgog fainted.
After a few minutes, Sonies aweked up, nad he was inside a jacuzzi. All naked, and by his side…Robothink!
"Oh no! Please Dortor Robotkinick, don't rape me!" screms sonic, crying like a river of molasses and garlic.
"He…He…He…Socis Socis, I always admired your blue body you know. So sexy and full of dangerous little spines that penetrate the skin and cause orgasm. Sonic, The Hedgegoh, I want to deflower you!" uttered Dr Ivo Robitok with the most pleasure sensation.
As his arc emeny uttered so profound words, Sonic started to admire his body. Robotonik carcaressing himself with his lardy sausage fingers. As they were half imersed in the jacuzzi, Robitnick picked a bootle of mayonaise and started to spread it all over his giant belly. The belly was very giant and full of hair and macaroni. The water of the jacuzzi was full of floating lasagna and meat-balls. Dr Robertkic picked a piece of the lagsana and toke a bite:
"Kiss my moustache sexy Hedgehoiese" sayd very sexyly that man made of lard and lipids. His mouth wass masticating with intense pleasure all that pasta mixed with meat-balls and cheap soap.
Sonic couldn't contain the imense disgust he had sharing his first sauna+jacuzzi moment with his most hated enemy, so he vomited. A intense jet of bile fueled gastric juice emanated from his throat and tainted that pure water with an intense hot soup of fried chicken, diet cock and untreated worms.
The worms entered Sonics anus.
"Oh now Soixos, the Hjergogee, I need to safe you" and Ronobotick inserted his imense and gangrenous finger inside Sonic's butthole. The ass cracked and formed sacred hemorroids inside his anus. The water got red.
"Hummmmmm, I love red wine" uttered with pleasure sensation Robotdick, and he swallowed the water filled with anus' blood.
"No Dortor! Don't do that dat!1" screamed Sonics and he swinged his arms all over the sauna. He let a fart out.
Sonic's blood was tainted with a living bacteria full of alien cells, and those cels were toxic to fat men. If they ingested it, something bad woukd happen them.
As immediately as Robotiric gulped the red wine water, he started to convulse. His mouth started to slobber and his bowels got lose. The water got red-brown.
"Nooooooo! Robothnok!" Skonic screamed and them jumped out of water. His anus was still bleeading, and he run away from there. Robotokik's body them inflated until it exploded in a million smashed pieces…and the ssauna was no more.
Epilogue
Sonic never returned to that gym after all those facts happened. That day, after he excaped the exploding villain lard, his nude body was exposed to all the muscular men of the gym. They looked at his blue big bellyed body, covered in feces, macaroni and meat-ballls, and an anus bleeading like a satanic waterfall, and they laughed. So Sonic went always.
He will never return to a body building life, all because of these sad facts.
The End.
>>2654208When I was 8 or so, we used to go visit my grandma's farm which she bought for pennies in the last years of Eastern-yuropean AES, and I used to go fishing for (mostly) catfish with my elder cousin (he was like 13 or sg at the time)
long story short, he showed me a fucking epic anti-mosquito trick
basically, you let the fucking parasite bourgeois vampire mosquito suck on your blood, you watch closely as its belly becomes swollen and red with your blood, and at the very last moments, when that uygha is almost finished, you pinch the surrounding area of your skin very hard, causing an immediate increase in pressure, and you can make the fucking mosquito's belly explode with the excess blood from your body
thank you for your attention to this matrace
>>2654226i prefer to kill them before they succ because i don't want to catch something from them
>>2654066
Also reposting from last thread
<New research published in the International Social Science Journal suggests that the relationship between personality and political beliefs in the United States varies significantly by age. The findings indicate that higher levels of neuroticism are associated with liberal ideology among young Americans, but this association is absent in older generations. This generational divide implies that growing up in a highly competitive historical period may play a role in shaping both the mental health and political orientations of American youth.
This feels like such a weird assertion to make in the face of the Cold War. I suppose it makes enough sense that the current median of "the older generations", the average of which now being the youngest Boomers and oldest Xers, were the ones growing up through the 70s/80s to see the Cold War be in this weird limbo of heightened tension in proxy conflicts and media/rhetoric only to have it wind down during the latter half of the 80s. The thing is, until that point, during the whole duration of the Cold War, people were anxious of nuclear war, and that fear and paranoia was heavy, if not all-consuming for the many families of those that worked for the MIC, so it's very weird to say that younger people are more neurotic because they grew up "in a highly competitive historical period".
I'm not even trying to pull a Boomer-ism. If anything, the world we're seeing today is a return to pre-WW2 if not pre-WW1 norms (actually the scarier fact), but I feel like it's a tough argument to say the Cold War, even in the latter days, was less competitive. I suppose that the older people are "less neurotic" because, despite the anxiety and paranoia of the Cold War, they lived their 20s/30s in the 1990s, when the Cold War ended, Communism melted away, and the US enjoyed being hegemon of a truly unipolar world (for a fleeting 10 years); it's possible that, from their POV, the relief of the Cold War ending allowed them to forget the anxieties of the years prior and just remember that in the 70s/80s, they were having fun, struggling with jobs, getting married, and that all the threats of nuclear exchange was just bluster (which, ironically despite their neuroticism, younger people seemed to have internalized into the idea that nuclear war will never happen or is a trivial thing, which is dangerously bad)
<Social scientists have observed that political polarization in the United States is increasingly defined by a generational gap. Older cohorts have trended toward conservatism in recent decades. Simultaneously, younger cohorts have moved decisively toward liberal positions. While much research has focused on why older adults have shifted right, fewer studies have examined the psychological drivers behind the leftward shift of the youth.
I hate our smothering culture of mystifying socio-political phenomenon. Notice how they never delve into why older people "trended toward conservatism". The "generational gap" is only real insofar that you're simply just far more likely to live past 60 if you're rich, and if you're rich, you're far more likely to not support things like Socialism. Just think about all the Silent Gen and Boomer activists in the New Left that died before it was even 1990.
<Francesco Rigoli, a social scientist at City St Georges, University of London, sought to address this by examining the role of neuroticism. Neuroticism is a fundamental personality trait associated with a predisposition toward negative emotions, including anxiety, sadness, and irritability. Previous data has shown that rates of anxiety and depression have surged among young people in the United States. Rigoli proposed that this increase in mental distress might be a contributing factor to the adoption of liberal ideologies.
<“The study was motivated by the observation that, while in recent years old Americans have moved to the conservative camp, young Americans have become progressively more liberal. Why this has occurred remains poorly understood, and my article aimed at shedding light on this question,” Rigoli told PsyPost.
Is it me, or is it fucking weird how it seems like this part implies that Rigoli noticed that younger people were becoming more liberal and his first impulse was "let's see how mentally ill they are". Why are the British like this?
<The rationale for this investigation centers on what the author calls the “Generational Hypothesis.” This theory posits that the social environment in the United States has changed drastically since the 1970s. Older Americans spent their formative years during the post-war period, an era often characterized by greater economic stability, stronger labor unions, and a more collectivistic culture.
Again. More mystifying. The "collectivistic culture" he's describing is obfuscating the fact that the US (and the UK but it looks different) is going through a crisis in social reproduction and socialization in general. I don't even mean the whole "nobody's having sex" meme. I mean social reproduction as in the process of training and handing off a specialized role/function in work/bureaucracy from the older generation to the next. For jobs, it's because Capitalism incentivized older people to be deathly protective of their specialties in the workplace as a way to ensure companies absolutely need them, thus creating job security; to do otherwise risks making them expendable and lose their job to the younger worker. As long as this continues, it's setting us up for a sort of "micro dark age" where a recently retired (or dead) boomer in a factory turned out to be the only person that knew how to work a machine or knew what specific material was needed for maintenance, just for one example. These things can be figured out again, but it usually comes at the risk of workplace accidents which shouldn't have happened in the first place.
As for socialization, younger people are increasingly being raised asocially, and American society in general is doing its damnedest to make life simultaneously stiflingly protective and hostile for children to grow up in. There's fewer places young people can just spend time in between capitalism making the cheapest, most economical places of business gray boxes with nothing to do except buy and consume, and American authoritarianism just not wanting anyone having fun outside (it frankly doesn't want anybody, young or old, outside, because one of the worst crimes you could ever commit in Capitalism is to visibly be idle hands, but I digress)
>>2654209>>2654201>>2654185>>2654180>>2654172>>2654163>>2654157>>2654147>>2654132>>2654094>>2654085The "revolution is impossible in America not because our class position in relation to the rest of the world but because how our infrastructure was developed" is a very recent cope on leftypol. I am following closely the ideological development of this cope while watching none of your videos, btw.
In my eyes, if you are interested, saying that "rev is impos in burg because infra" makes as much sense as saying "we can't have rev in this country because mountains/rivers".
You are extremely burger, extremely pathetic and funny, and you are encouraged in continuing your demoralization/self-serving narcissistic propaganda.
>>2654227Fine and dandy, completely understandable, mate. But when you find one of these uyghas already pink and swollen with your blood, remember my words, and make that uygha explode for great revenge time enjoyment action time
>>2654226>pinching the surrounding where the mosquito bites makes them explodeout of the things that never happened, this happened'nt the most.
>>2654227exactly. the whole Idea of those programs is to cause a pandemic. they tried that in Cuba. Similar like the fascists Japanese with their fleas with bubonic plague in China.
>Vid in OP
Are these guys the real deal? Or just guys LARPing as Panthers?
>>2654240doing anything in real life is LARPing according to those who do nothing in real life so who cares
>>2654236
Whinging about suburbia has to be the most first world problem of all first world problems. Yes timmy i'm sorry that the most traumatic shit in your childhood is living in a conformist environment where you can't walk to the grocery store, instead of having an absentee and/or alcoholic father and growing up in an impoverished prole neighbourhood and everyone around you are either criminals or junkies
>>2654245
can you stop now?
please
we get it
you are the victim of infrastrucutre
>>2654244they do be like that
>>2654255don't you know that you're toxic?
>>2654254
Respect goes to the very few honest americans like yourself
>>2654256hit me baby one more time
>>2654257>>2654254glowoperation
>>2654259Explain, please.
Shitting on people whose only "praxis" is voting democrat (Bernie, Mamdani, AOC, DSA, CPUSA – all of them objectively anti-communist
FACT CHECK: 101% REAL) is "glow operation" HOW exactly?
If by "glow" you reference the classic meme about the CIA, and don't see how they would be opposed to you voting Democrat!
If anything, the CIA would be 101% in favour of you choosing one bourgeois party over another instead of doing anything… non-bourgeois.
So please explain to me how am >I< exactly the glow operative here, when my entire message is that you should stop supporting bourgeois candidates!
Thank you for your response to this matter.
>2654260
at what point do mods go "ok, this is spam"?
>>2654264making shit… DOWN!
>>2654066
I bet all you want that the studies conflates liberal with leftism, as always.
>but this association is absent in older generations
years of lead generation.
>>2654261Nobody in this thread or anywhere else has ever advocated "only voting democrat"
>>2654275move here and enjoy the treats
>>2654071>because contrary to what communists thinkno. it's a way to put liberals and leftism in the same bag. liberals don't threaten capital. as long you don't threat economic structures, forcing them to fight inequality, you can't be a leftist.
liberalism is a right wing ideology.
>2654270
>only
notice the bourgeois mind
>>2654279"Leftism" is the left-wing of capital, FYI.
Only communism is anti-capital.
You being a "leftist" is you being a pro-capital fag. Only by becoming communist can you oppose capital.
thank you for your attention into this matador
>>2654279"liberals" have MUCH MORE IN COMMON with "leftists" than either of them with communists, FYI
thank you for your agriculture for this manager
>>2654283>"Leftism" is the left-wing of capital, FYI.no it isn't, that's just some shit people on here say so they can claim it's communist to basically be a religious reactionary third world nationalist but it's anti communist to be a communist in the 1st world.
>2654287
(actual brain cancer)
I'd say: "sad," but I know better. Whatever cope the burgeroid brings up always ends up being pro-capital, pro-imperialism, pro-death, pro-barbarism.
>>2654283leftism has to do with historical meetings in congress, parliaments, after the French revolution, where the right-wing parties sat to the right side, to state their loyalty to the status quo, kings, and the rich, while the left-wing parties sat to the left to display their discontent with the system.
this was inherited later on when communism arrived, and since then, in every parliament or congress, the left side has been critical and attacks capital, while politicians sitting closer to the middle, then to the right, were always and are always defending capital.
the young generation is clearly lost mang clearly lost
>>2654296hmm I think
>>2654272 was correct
>>2654293>leftism has to do with historical meetings in congress, parliaments, after the French revolution, where the right-wing parties sat to the right side, to state their loyalty to the status quo, kings, and the rich, while the left-wing parties sat to the left to display their discontent with the system.This is factual but then the so called "left wing" took over the entire world (bourgeois revolutions) and instituted even worse wealth disparities based on wage labour and exploitation, so I honestly don't get why you fucking defend this shit or wish to die on this hill.
>this was inherited later on when communism arrivedMarx and Engels literally broke with the bourgeois tradition, in fact, that is the entirety of the genuine content of their work, you fucking subhuman animal.
>>2654295>2026<stuck in the fake dialectics between cultural right vs left bullshitI like Stalin, tbh
Only on leftypol have I ever seen this much nitpicking and autism over whether or not communism is leftism. In every other communist space, be it parties or websites or whatever, it's pretty much a given that communism/socialism/anarchism is synonymous with being "far left". This is the only place I've been where not only is a huge amount of effort put into differentiating between "leftism" and "communism", but also comes with a hostility towards "the left" that's indistinguishable from the far right except cloaked with some Marxist sounding lingo.
>>2654298Jfc enough with this retarded semantic bullshit. People have been using "the left" and "leftists" to refer broadly to communists, social democrats, anarchists, etc. since the birth of those movements. Insisting that communists aren't on the left is pure autism. When people say the term "leftist" it's a catch all for a number of political currents including communism. We already have a word to distinguish ourselves from other movements described as leftist and that word is communist. You're just obfuscating shit and being confusing.
>>2654303it's because these are ex-/pol/ reactionaries who are afraid of being seen as "soy" or "gay" so they under no circumstances want to be associated with the word "left" and came up with the "left wing of capital" cope and ignore the fact that
An Infantile Disorder by Lenin put "Left" in scare quotes on the cover.
>>2654303they are just hipsters
>>2654288
My favorite aspect about zoomers.
>>2654304yet every time i say this on here i get told i'm lying and that i secretly thirst for the blood of the global south
A case for acceleration in the context of ICE and federal military:
>ICE and deployable soldiers+NatGuard (under Insurrection Act) are a finite resource
>if struggle in Minneasota is crushed, those resources are freed up
>therefore it's within the interest of other cities and states to resist concurrently to minimize how many troops can be sent to each city (a variant of divide and conquer)
>this will probably require some catalysts
I say some of this out of naivety - not a burger or expert, so shout out if there's something off.
>>2654272>So your ideal version of this thread is just this "exchange" over and over right?yeah. basically. they won't admit it, but their ideal version is where everyone decent leaves and only them and the actual chauvinist reactionaries are in the thread having an endless circle jerk about how they're going to skull fuck each other on the day of the rope or whatever.
>>2654307>>2654306It's not even historically accurate to call the left exclusively "the left wing of capital" because even back during the days of the French Revolution, the guys sitting the furthest left in the parliament explicitly wanted the abolition of private property. One of the more infamous advocates of this was none other than the Marquis de Sade, who was considered a radical among the French Revolutionaries for essentially advocating for a classless moneyless stateless society
>>2654317>political compassholy cringe
>>2654319>the guys sitting the furthest left in the parliament explicitly wanted the abolition of private propertynot exactly. the people on the far left in the french revolution weren't in the parliament at all. they were in the streets. The people on the left that robespierre purged like the Herbertists were more like the proto-communists you're describing. Same with the diggers in the English revolution.
>>2654321China has a communist party governing but has state capitalist economy and is building lower stage socialism. This is what they actually say and your meme is retarded.
>>2654298>I honestly don't get why you fucking defend this shit or wish to die on this hill.because this deadlocked or gridlocked language set up by liberals and conservacucks in the US politics is beneficial for them to keep controlling the status quo with a bi-partisan system that in reality behaves like one party. people believe that they have alternatives, that when they vote they are making a change in the US, but they are not changing policies
(I am not advocating to abandon bourgeoisie tools) they are changing faces, that's all.
political education + political language matters.
>>2654317Your meme presupposes everyone in the USA is labor aristocrat, petty bourgeios, or haute bourgeois, even though there are plenty of lumpen, proletariat, prisoner-slaves, and even migrant workers who are basically indentured servants if they work in agriculture. You forgo class analysis and use the liberal reddit political compass to draw metaphysical conclusions about society as a whole. Powerful stuff. (not)
>>2654306>People have been using "the left"When will you learn that the category "people" doesn't exist? When will you learn that all categories are set by classes? When will you learn that the "left" and the "right" are defined by the bourgeoisie and their shills?
It's so fucking tiresome, man. You imperial-fags have no self-consciousness, for real.
>>2654328>You keep voting and shilling for democratsno matter how many times you repeat this lie it doesn't become true
>you fucking subhuman troglodytejust lol
> What is there to fucking discuss, you anti-communist reactionary """leftist?"""good job making more shit up dude
>>2654322That's probably true of most of them but de Sade was actually in government at that point, being appointed the commissar for health and charitable institutions for the section of Paris he represented. And while advocating for a sort of proto-communist society definitely alienated him from much of the Jacobins, it was his endorsement of state atheism that proved to be the last straw
>>2654329>When will you learn that the category "people" doesn't exist? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanwhen you do mental gymnastics and pretend to be confused
>>2654333
>made up more shit nobody said award
>accused people of being anti communist without proof award
>types "leftypol" into his address bar daily despite not being "left" award
>>2654303>communism/socialism/anarchism is synonymous with being "far left". This is the only place I've been where not only is a huge amount of effort put into differentiating between "leftism" and "communism"you can welcome ACP, Haz, and their trolls for that.
>>2654321The result is the same though:
Neither fighting nor allying with China will save you.
>>2654281
>most only go to church once a month
Abysmal.
They’re going to hell
Honestly who gives a shit what China is doing or whether or not it's true socialism when we have a revolution to spark over on our side of the pond? It just feels like a pointless thing to squabble over especially as we're getting gestapo agents in our cities actively kidnapping people
>>2654319>It's not even historically accurate to call the left exclusively "the left wing of capital" because even back during the days of the French Revolution, the guys sitting the furthest left in the parliament explicitly wanted the abolition of private property. It literally doesn't matter what they "said." It literally doesn't matter what they "wanted."
The only fucking thing that matters is what happened.
This is Marxism 101, kiddo, and you are an idealist little shit.
>>2654231>"revolution is impossible because how our infrastructure was developed"No one has said this. The infrastructure contributes to atomization making revolution more difficult to coordinate and build, but not impossible.
>>2654257Only third worldists use the word "treats" to describe consumer products, dumbass.
>>2654345It actually kinda does matter what they said and wanted especially because they were ostracized and purged for it before they could actually do it. And more importantly it undermines the argument that the left is "inherently" capitalistic or bourgeois when even back when the term originated it wasn't
>>2654325agreed, wholeheartedly
>>2654343we don't need a revolution on our side of the pond anyway because we are already doing dengist socialism
>>2654327I'm pretty sure Lenin tried to approximate the % of labor aristocrats in imperial countries back in the day. (I've last read Lenin 10 years ago, and that is shameful, tbh, but I think my memory serves correctly.)
I'd love nothing more than you and I going into percentages regarding the class makeup of the USA.
Let me start with picrel from wiki. Do you understand the difference between productive vs. unproductive labor and how this has been globalized?
Do you even fucking start to comprehend how non- or semi-productive labor in the US gets economic value?
Do you even into "Theories of Surplus Value?"
>>2654352Are baristas bourgeois?
>>2654238See what I'm saying?
Anyone who thinks shit like this isn't worth engaging with, period. Full stop.
Posters like this are worse than a worm, you are the dirt it shits into.
>>2654352house slaves are slaves. service workers are workers.
>>2654352This understates true number of proletarians central to production that is classified as services. But it is true that in int. division of labor, it is possible for a country to be mostly rentier and middle class living off of other countries proletariat.
>>2654353Servants.
i,e,, non proletarian acc. to k. marx.
Right wing: retvrn
Centrism: stay
Leftism: progress
Simple as. Wanna move history forward? Lefty. Wanna go back? Rightoid. Wanna protect the status quo? Centrist (lib)
>>2654238eh, the quote on MLK about zionism criticizing it is equal to anti-semitism is a fabricated letter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friendthough I prefer Malcolm X, MLK couldn't be a fed because he was killed by the feds. a civil tribunal declared that the feds conspired to kill him.
>>2654230I honestly don't know how the researchers(or the author of the news article for that matter) completely glazed over this part:
<The analysis of the international data produced different results than the American studies. Across the 20 countries examined, there was no consistent evidence of an interaction between age and neuroticism. In the United States, young neurotics tend to be liberal while old neurotics do not show a preference. In the international sample, this generational difference did not exist.
<This absence of a global effect supports the idea that the American findings are likely due to specific generational experiences rather than the aging process itself. The data suggests that the unique social and economic pressures of the contemporary United States may be driving the association between mental distress and political views among the youth. just dancing around the subject that living in a declining empire hit with crisis after crisis might make someone on the receiving end of the imperial boomerang more stressed out.
Catch me up on the last twoo hundred posts in this dumpster fire of a general please
>>2654330how many times did you vote dems, you stupid shit?
>>2654332very insightful, please enjoy this gem
(one of these ought to work:)
https://sharetext.io/gu57we8b>>2654334The bourgeoise are not human, they are not members of the species called homo-sapiens. I will uphold this position even if you do DNA analysis and claim otherwise. No, anon, the bourgeoisie is not human. They are vampires and I shit in your face.
>>2654336>>accused people of being anti communist without proof awardIf you are a "leftist" in the West you are an anti-communist.
>>2654338Canada was just saved by China, fyi.
>>2654344Everything I said is factual. The category "people" is in essence class-blind (at best), (class-collaborationist at worst.)
>muh peoplefuck you. fucking garlic'd up vampire hunter vs. vampire movies are more class conscious than this shit
>>2654346>>"revolution is impossible because how our infrastructure was developed">No one has said this.It was said in a different thread and then infrastructure video spam started here. I'm not trying to lie here, dude. This fucking happened on leftypol recently. An actual mother fucking idiotic subhuman burger claimed like a few days ago that revolution in the USA was not possible because of the alienating infrastructure, and now we are here: the (most likely same idiot) spamming infrastructure videos ITT.
>"treats"It's an ersatz, a useful meme, nothing more. If you want me to post Marxist econ books on treatlerism (which you would not read, lol) just ask me.
>>2654347>It actually kinda does matter what they said and wanted especially because they were ostracized and purged for it before they could actually do it. Again, you semi-sentient being, it literally doesn't matter what they wanted, nor does it matter "what would have happened (tm)" – all of this is fiction inside their minds and yours. What happened was that COULD happen.
(I'm actually thinking that "materialism" isn't enough of a term to shill as a communist for, determinist is way more encompassing.)
>the argument that the left is "inherently" capitalisticThe only "argument" you presented so far against this thesis has been a fiction: "if only" and "what would have happened if."
I, as opposed to you, don't live in "if only" land, which is to say DELULU land. I live in reality land, where "leftism" ended up being capitalist.
>It actually kinda does matterIt doesn't and you are a religious pseud cunt.
Potentiality not actualized does not actually exist. Do you understand this statement? >>2654374A house? Yeah uygha we all live in houses
>>2654374>>2654376A house
In the middle of a house
A house
In the middle of a house
A house
In the middle of a house
A house
In the
uncs in this thread gonna be sayin they dont live in houses next 😭😭😭
>>2654362
>ancient Chinese people purposely curated their style into twink and chad to delineate their societal roles.
Interesting.
>>2654357Productive vs. non-productive workers are a thing. Please consult Marx's Theories of Surplus Value.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
>>2654360>This understates true number of proletarians central to production that is classified as services. But it is true that in int. division of labor, it is possible for a country to be mostly rentier and middle class living off of other countries proletariat.We don't disagree. (That's like the most praise you can get from me, when I post in /ooSA/pol, so be proud.)
>>2654370When will you stop shitting on all AES countries and shit on your own imperial core position?
>>2654374yawn, already addressed:
>>2654119 >>2654360>i,e,, non proletarian acc. to k. marx.Surely you have quote somewhere, right?
>>2654373>It was said in a different thread and then infrastructure video spam started here.Alright I guess technically someone somewhere could have said this but I'm stating that the infrastructure objectively does makes it more difficult. But not impossible.
>It's an ersatz, a useful meme, nothing moreYou skipped over the context. No one except third worldists uses the meme meaning a third worldist was sockpuppeting.
>If you want me to post Marxist econ books on treatlerism I'm fully aware of the existence of consumer products, psued.
>>2654146>>2654254wow fucking MASK OFF
you burgers never fail to show your true colors
I'll just drop this screenshot any time one of you pretends to be communist from now on
>>2654380I live in a fucking single room with 2 other ppl that the company provided me, yet I'm getting spammed by fucking burger labor aristocrats telling me I live in a fucking mansion. Do you understand how frustrating this is? I literally get no privacy. I need to go to the fucking toilet if I have to fart to not be anti-social.
>>2654393So why don't you do something to change your material condition? Why are burgers so cucked?
>>2654393Wow that sucks
I live in a five bedroom mansion that I pay zero tax but I understand how you feel
You may as well be part of the bourgeoisie if you think you're being oppressed because you can't fart in your own room (ewwwwwwww)
>>2654388I've just watched the latest episode of Fukuyama's youtube shit channel. It was bad. Gave me the same vibes.
(/End of post.)
>>2654370>the genejakSMAC predicted retarded jakposters
>>2654373>If you are a "leftist" in the West you are an anti-communist.Lie.
>>2654121hmmmmm
>>2654146>>2654254hmmmmmmmmmmm
>>2654391HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>>2654390>I'm stating that the infrastructure objectively does makes it more difficult. I don't disagree with this statement, however it should also be noted that """people""" in the USA who live in gated communities / fucking cancer-cell-type of "mow the lawn" timber houses, are NOT typically working class.
Working class 'Murricans live in "commie blocks" and/or rents in the fucking periphery of major cities, typically using public transportation to get to work (NY), or just fucking suffer "auto hell" and commute 2 hours a day to a fucking burger flipping job….
>>2654391hhmmmmm
>>2654394I already did. I moved to fucking Germany as an ex-AES fag to get some $$. I'm like a fucking Mexican migrant in the burger context.
Jesus fucking Chroist.
>>2654397>>2654398Okay, dude, have a nice day, bye!
>>2654401fax
>>2654402passion: detected
communist status: positive
anti-imperialist status: positive
honk honk: honk
>>2654407Name a SINGLE "leftist" (non-explicitly-communist) party in the West that isn't outright anti-communist.
>>2654420>Name a SINGLE "leftist" (non-explicitly-communist) party in the West that isn't outright anti-communist.ACP
>>2654427i will donate to comrade trump because he is doing demgism
demgasm all over his face
>>2654423hahaha, well meme'd, my friend
>>2654425(vidrel)
>>2654397
Agreed. If your bed isn't a cold floor you share with a few hundred workers with only gruel to eat while working 20 hour days in the mines then you aren't a true prole.
>>2654425wtf suburbs are historically progressive???
>>2654427is funi because he knows that his approval is down (like, way, way down) because of the economics, and he starts shilling this idiocy of "economic boom" without giving evidence or any material basis for it
>>2654421
didn't happen. treatlerite myth. also they were all in the KKK when not at work.
>>2654434
can you stop, you fucking idiot?
>>2654441>>2654440>>2654439>any worthwhile posts ITT in the last 24 hours?many
>>2654439Yeah, this zinger
>>2653354 >>2654439just news posts
>>2654440it's on topic, sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled struggle session
>>2654420>timber housesin the Southeast the houses are made out of cinderblocks because of the hurricanes.
>>2654445>it's on topicposting random ass videos 20 times w 0 replies is not "on topic", you fucking idiot
it amounts to dumping your youtube algo-feed
boomer fucking faggot ass american, i swear to god
>>2654391That’s a Chagosposter copypasta, dumbass
this thread devolves into
>enjoying boomer burger anon's recommended youtube videos (with zero replies)
>>2654449>>2654450>>2654451you're just mad it interrupted your regularly scheduled "you will never be a communist" scolding. it's literally all USA-related
>>2654458The moderators refuse to come down on the derailers, so this general is a continual dumpster fire in which no actual discussion is had and where it is it is swamped by the few morons who respond to one another's bait.
>>2654460>The moderators refuse to come down on the derailers,they come down on the derailers all the time. they just change IP address because they all pay for VPNs to use for trolling
>>2654459you could post a 100 videos on termites which are technically USA related (since you build wooden houses in 2026) and get 0 replies or interactions and you could still post the same cope how your shit was relevant
get a fucking clue, you boomer idiot
>the rogues gallery of leftypol trolls all pay for vpns for the privilege of annoying 5 people
let's be real, they're feds, that's why they have so many ip addresses. there's like one or two guys who get paid to do this fulltime
>>2654466how many of these ips are ban evaders?
>>2654465what federal government would spend money on shitting our general? I think there just no lifers that genuinely think they're better than everyone else online and irl and perpetually butthurt us plebeians haven't recognized there greatness
>>2654470What compels you to write this utter fucking garbage
Fuck off to 4chan with this shit
Why do we bother keeping this site open?
>>2654471i'm just summarizing the args I see in this and the previous 200 or so iterations of this thread which I usually bake and archive
>>2654469the us govt is the most bloated one in the world with useless security theater natsec bullshit. they probably had a small team of people assigned to leftypol back when it was bigger and more influential and now it's been forgotten about and the agents stick around and treat it like a jobs program and keep collecting paychecks
>>2654471>replied in 25 secsbet you didn't even read it
>>2654471If you criticize me, you’re a treatlerite and a narcissist
>>2654434
longest guerilla war campaign against the US btw
>>2654475Man imagine getting paid to shitpost
>>2654482it's gotta be all LLMs now
>>2654484Have you seen the main news subreddits, every comment is systematically designed to moderate thought
>>2654485>Have you seen the main news subreddits, every comment is systematically designed to moderate thoughtoh please I haven't bothered with reddit since 2019 when I proved that comments which ilnked Telesur, RT, or other non-American news media got hidden automatically. I was trying to show people American meddling in Ukraine on r/dankleft and found that I couldn't see my own comment when logged out on a different computer. I asked the mods and they said it was top-down admin policy to shadowban non US media. Basically the r/politics accepted news sources secretly applies to the whole site.
>>2654453
noooooooooooo you can't post videos of american poverty it's …. ummm OFF TOPIC IN /USAPOL/ …. mods!!! this guy is interrupting my regularly scheduled treatlerite scolding!!!!
>>2654426That's a person not a party
Educating yourself only gives you more ways to do mental gymnastics to rationalize being useless
Ooga booga, return to monke and we will do the monkey revolution together
It is just one prolific shitposter
>>2654492there is no revolutionary practice without revolutionary theory. lenin denounced the disorganized flailing and adventurism of the narodniks.
>>2654467It doesn't matter, they are people. (5% maybe?)
>>2654470>americans are ontologically evil treatleritesThis is literally a cope rendition of what actual Marxists and Leninists have been saying in this thread, so you make this cope faux-version of what is actually being said (over and over again) just to make yourself feel better. Quite revealing of your culture and psyche, ngl.
>(everything is) american chauvinismLike, yes, dude, I know you can't experience how it's like living in fucking Uzbekistan or Thailand, but literally EVERYTHING is Hollywood, and everything that's Hollywood is fucking burger chauvinism.
<yankee soil has magical properties that turn you genetically anti communistBiggest cope of the Democrat voter "American communist."
>DSA, CPUSA, Chapo Trap House, Bernie, AOC, BLM, OWSall of this has been a Democrap shilling parade, you fucking subhuman troglodyte
all of your answers to these completely valid criticisms has been SHAMELESS GIGA COPE
>>2654487>61% femalemoneyed horndogs flocking to this city to "rescue"/marry the women LOL
dudes will also go hunting for brides on the mugshot websites lol
>>2654498>It doesn't matter, they are people. (5% maybe?)if it's a ban evader then they show up multiple times in the IP count
>>2654498> a post that doesn't mention democrats is somehow democrat shillinghow do you keep doing this? also the soil thing is literally what one guy was saying in the previous thread. keep up.
>This is literally a cope rendition of what actual Marxists and Leninists have been saying in this threadit's not a cope rendition and you aren't "actual marxist leninists" because if you wouldn't be trying your glow-damn hardest to put american workers back to sleep with each post. America will fall and communism will win. There will be revolution here, and you will cry when it happens, glowie.
>>2654502Don't care, mods ban communist posters all the fucking time. It is a miracle that fucking masochists keep coming back.
>>2654498thanks for proving his point.
>>2654506keep vooting bloo, """"communist""""
>>2654498How can communists be a part of the party and not a member of the government when it comes down on the other side to make them look bad and then they get the blame for it because it’s the government that is responsible for this country and the people are the ones who are doing the most to make them worse than the government?
>>2654465>>2654466>>2654467t. people who don't know how IP address allocation works
NI;NRTS
>>2654465For real, if you're going to start shit, at least explain
cui bono so it's not just boring trashposting.
>>2654453
useless crap commentary.
>>2654508I literally can not parse your run-on sentence, American. Care to include some punctuation marks, you subhuman ape?
Fuck it, anyone talking about voting at this time of year should be treated equivalent to a fed.
It doesn't matter. Vote or don't vote any way you want in the federal election. Might as well be screeching about genitals. It's counterrevolutionary noise.
>>2654507thanks for proving their point
>>2654514>Fuck it, anyone talking about voting at this time of year should be treated equivalent to a fed.You Americans say this NOW, but you'll 100% vote for democrats in the mid-terms.
You guys are a fucking joke.
>>2654504Except it is a cope rendition because it completely obfuscates the actual argument being made by Marxist Leninists time and time again, which is that the American "workers" have no material incentive to establish communism because that would negatively impact their ability to rape and exploit the third world for treats. And as has also been repeated countless times, the overwhelming majority of Americans would rather slaughter millions of innocents and be gunned down themselves than surrender their treats. You dont even deny it, you just try and cope and pretend to be communists all the while you uncritically support zionist ghouls like Mamdani. Even now with your pathetic little anti-ICE dance offs you are only opposing ICE because of lingering TDS and the loss of a migrant underclass that gives you cheaper treats.
>>2654517>but you'll 100% vote for democrats in the mid-termsPretty clear to everybody that you have to cling to this baseless accusation so you can keep arguing against strawmen. Absolutely nobody here things voting for the democrats is a solution to anything.
i'm going to ragebait so many people here with a pic of my ballot with all (D)s on it. it's gonna be sick
>>2654518What revolutionary sentiment? Where among Americans is there any revolutionary sentiment? And since when do revolutions happen by "sentiment"? It's almost adorable how utterly deficient you Americans are in understanding Marxism, at least until it manifests in the rape and exploitation of the third world
>>2654520Says the former SS officer who uncritically supported Ziohran, the most dangerous fascist of our era
>>2654519>the actual argument being made by Marxist Leninists time and time again, which is that the American "workers" have no material incentive to establish communismNeither Marx, Lenin, nor Stalin believed this. Nice "Marxism-Leninism" you have there that directly contradicts both Marx and Lenin. Your entire ideology was thought up by embittered literally who Western communists that nobody can even name. It has never been advocated by any successful revolutionary, and its entirely absent among third world communists.
>>2654510what killed forums was that so many of them were vulnerable to SQL injections. I remember like 5 or 6 forums I was on back in the 00s dying to SQL injections.
>>2654518i keep saying this and it's good to hear this from someone in the global south
>>2654524Show me where Marx or Lenin argued that the labor aristocracy could advance communism, I'll wait
>>2654518Revolution in the imperial core is impossible NOT because those dang meddling kids posting shit about "treatlerism", but because it is literally against the class interests of the majority of the American people.
Otherwise, you have my complete sympathy and support when it comes to your Chilean misery.
Realising the facts of global capitalism does NOT necessarily make one a "doomer," even though the logical conclusions are pessimistic when it comes to the revolutionary potential of the Imperial Core.
>glowiesHere's a brain exercise for you! Fucking press Ctrl + F and type in "treat" and see how many non-burgers or "anti-"burgers actually typed in that fucking term.
You'll find that 99% of "treat posting" has been from Americans who despise this meme, and they shit and piss their pant about it, but otherwise no serious non-american communist actually used this shit.Really makes you think, HUH
>>2654518Sanest person in the thread
>>2654529The destruction of the imperial core means the liberation of the imperial periphery and the 7 billion or so people within, but curiously Americans never seem to remember that
>>2654513How do I get a government asset to be used for the communist party of the United States in a country where the people have been living for decades in a country with the most corrupt people in the world for decades and still believe that they can do anything to make it happen and not have a chance of getting elected
>>2654537
Again, why do you bother writing this garbage
>>2654533I'm sorry, anon, but I don't speak American:
>How do I get a government asset to be used for the [non-existent] communist party of the United States in a country where the people have been living for decades in a country with the most corrupt people in the world for decades and still believe that they can do anything to make it happen and not have a chance of getting electedI'm sorry, anon. I only speak English. I don't speak ADHD-zoomer-American.
>>2654543
Why do you even bother, have read through this thread, its already shit spam.
Word
>>2654513> you subhuman ape?interesting turn of phrase for a so called communist
>>2654480Police didn't start in colonies. They started from soldiers enforcing a ruler's edicts. We have lots of written evidence of this from thousands of years ago.
>>2654529>it is literally against the class interests of the majority of the American people.Might have been true 50 years ago when capitalists were fighting the cold war and needed some propaganda. But America's and the EUs ruling class has been tightening the reigns on it's workers. First world workers are being put into the same position as literally everyone else in the world with all the niceties being taken away.
>>2654537>A "communist" America would be the Third Reich on steroids,They why is a capitalist America under the Billionaire Trump also becoming the third reich on steroids?
>>2654523>Says the former SS officer who uncritically supported Ziohran, the most dangerous fascist of our eraUnironically the funniest thing I've ever read on here.
>>2654528Lenin argued that the labour aristocracy was a small minority of trade union officials and social democratic politicians that worked against the interests of the majority of the proletariat, which included the workers in imperialist countries. He also argued that the privileges that pacified workers could only ever be enjoyed by a minority, and then only temporarily. You would know this if you had ever read him or even knew what the term "labour aristocracy" meant. From Lenin's "Imperialism and the Split in Socialism:
<The bourgeoisie of an imperialist “Great” Power can economically bribe the upper strata of “its” workers by spending on this a hundred million or so francs a year, for its superprofits most likely amount to about a thousand million. And how this little sop is divided among the labour ministers, “labour representatives” (remember Engels’s splendid analysis of the term), labour members of War Industries Committees,[5] labour officials, workers belonging to the narrow craft unions, office employees, etc., etc., is a secondary question.<The monopoly of modern finance capital is being frantically challenged; the era of imperialist wars has begun. It was possible in those days to bribe and corrupt the working class of one country for decades. This is now improbable, if not impossible. But on the other hand, every imperialist “Great” Power can and does bribe smaller strata (than in England in 1848–68) of the “labour aristocracy”. Formerly a “bourgeois labour party”, to use Engels’s remarkably profound expression, could arise only in one country, because it alone enjoyed a monopoly, but, on the other hand, it could exist for a long time. Now a “bourgeois labour party” is inevitable and typical in all imperialist countries; but in view of the desperate struggle they are waging for the division of spoils it is improbable that such a party can prevail for long in a number of countries. For the trusts, the financial oligarchy, high prices, etc., while enabling the bribery of a handful in the top layers, are increasingly oppressing, crushing, ruining and torturing the mass of the proletariat and the semi-proletariat.<But we know for certain that the “defenders of the fatherland” in the imperialist war represent only a minority. And it is therefore our duty, if we wish to remain socialists to go down lower and deeper, to the real masses; this is the whole meaning and the whole purport of the struggle against opportunism. By exposing the fact that the opportunists and social-chauvinists are in reality betraying and selling the interests of the masses, that they are defending the temporary privileges of a minority of the workers, that they are the vehicles of bourgeois ideas and influences, that they are really allies and agents of the bourgeoisie, we teach the masses to appreciate their true political interests, to fight for socialism and for the revolution through all the long and painful vicissitudes of imperialist wars and imperialist armistices. >>2654544Sorry? I don’t understand, I only speak American
>>2654555I'm like 10+ years done pretending that Americans are a part of the race called homo-sapiens, tbh.
>>2654556>Might have been true 50 years ago when capitalists were fighting the cold war and needed some propaganda. But America's and the EUs ruling class has been tightening the reigns on it's workers. First world workers are being put into the same position as literally everyone else in the world with all the niceties being taken away.That's a super cute head-canon you keep telling yourself, anon, but reality remains: without imperial domination your groceries would cost 100% more.
>>2654561I guess we will never be able to speak the same language. I'm… sorry? I guess?
>>2654465>No way random assholes would troll our useless hobby imageboard<Oh no the actual federal government is deploying resources and money on this op the conspiracy must definitely exist and must definitely involve actual state agenciesPOV: I cannot comprehend like three people breaking with the circlejerk
>>2654565>without imperial domination your groceries would cost 100% moreAnd with socialism they'd cost substantially less.
>>2654576>with this hypothetical [something completely magical] would happenI'm so tired of your shit, Sabo. We've been at each other for like 5 years +.
>>2654576could you PLEASE alert your fucking mod friends in the Matrix grooming server that we are being spammed/raided and ask your fucking """mod friends""" to fucking delete the spam?
thx
>>2654579Mfs really come on a communist image board and dismiss the notion that socialism can improve people's lives as "magic". Then they claim they're the "only real communists." Embarrassing. Honestly why do you bother? It's clear you don't actually believe in even the most basic communist concepts. Just stop posting and doing fed work for free.
>>2654576The only form of "socialism" Americans are capable of supporting is National Socialism, and the lower grocery prices for the imperial core would come at the expense of the rest of the world
>>2654585>Mfs really come on a communist image board and dismiss the notion that socialism can improve people's lives as "magic".1) that's literally not the topic
2) I've been here longer than you
3) you suck
4) please alert your groomie friend over at matrix to fucking ban this poltard.
thx
>>2654587>the lower grocery prices for the imperial core would come at the expense of the rest of the world<Brazil and America both become socialist <America imports bananas from Brazil<100% of profits go to Brazilian workers who grew the bananas<100% of profits go to American workers who operate the store<the lives of both improve without prices going upWhy is this so hard for you to understand?
>>2654565Whoa it’s almost like that would make abolishing the value-form in my interest
>>2654596>more fictionbruh
>>2654591The topic is whether socialism can lead to a better life for working people, but this is something you apparently don't believe.
>>2654598As a Marxist I can only tell you that that the only way of "abolishing the value form" can and will happen through complete automation.
You WILL seethe at this simple logical statement but you will never be able to deboonk it.
have a nice day
>>2654604Americans aren't "working people", the service industry is not proletarian. Deal with it
>>2654604>people, the category<people the class-collaborationist category<people, the obfuscator of imperialism category<people, the idiot's socialism categoryThis is like me educating you on Ukraine once again. And I'm tired of this shit, bro.
>>2654607>the service industry is not proletarianMarx says otherwise.
<If we may take an example from outside the sphere of production of material objects, a schoolmaster is a productive labourer when, in addition to belabouring the heads of his scholars, he works like a horse to enrich the school proprietor. That the latter has laid out his capital in a teaching factory, instead of in a sausage factory, does not alter the relation.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch16.htm >>2654606>you will seethe at getting what you wantThe horror
>>2654610Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
>>2654611If you seriously think an impoverished school teacher in 19th century Germany is the same as a 21st century liberal trust fund kiddie working a "job" at Starbucks then you might actually just be genuinely retarded
>>2654615Really? How are the relations of production different?
>>2654615You’re not, either.
>>2654565>but reality remains: without imperial domination your groceries would cost 100% more.Ok? Housing, healthcare, utilities and education would cost 100% less without it.
>>2654569>John 18:12 Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish officials arrested Jesus. They bound himRomans used soldiers for law enforcement aka police. Praetorian Guard would put down riots in Rome. Soldiers are the root of policing. Police are just domestic soldiers.
>>2654611>>2654607>two idiots fightingThe problem with the (bourgeois category of) "service sector" is that it is very vaguely defined, but it can be said from a Marxist perspective that very little
productive labour is being done there, compared to… you know… farms and factories and shit.
>>2654352It's
almost as if as a capitalist economy the USA had to sustain itself from
some kind of source of surplus value (which is to say productive work), which non-accidentally
DOES NOT COME FROM THE FUCKING HOMELAND!and I'll let you two morons figure out the rest
*yawn* >>2654621You keep citing TSV, but never Capital.
Interesting
>>2654621>but it can be said from a Marxist perspective that very little productive labour is being done there, compared to… you know… farms and factories and shitHow so? Marx explicitly says that productive labour refers to production of surplus value, not production of physical commodities. If a service worker cannot buy an hour of the service they provide with an hour's wages, then they are exploited. They are producing surplus value and thus a productive labourer.
>>2654621>from a Marxist perspective that very little productive labour is being done there, compared to… you know… farms and factories and shitThis is not a marxist perspective at all, because marxism recognises that what counts as "productive" or "unproductive" labout is purely relative, i.e. productive
for whom?
>>2654630No Anon you don't get it. This perspective is the REAL MARXIST outlook. Sure, no Marxist revolutionary of note ever endorsed it, and it's directly contradicted by the analysis of Marx and Lenin, and modern theorists who study the economics of imperialism explicitly reject it, and it totally aligns with pro-imperialist propaganda, but it's totally the only true and correct communist position.
fucking house of representatives just two days ago voted to give $3.3bn to the zionists, with 153 democrats voting along the republicans.
fucking bipartisan dictatorship shit.
>>2654615>trust fund kiddie working a "job" at StarbucksAre you retarded? Why would someone with a trust fund be working at all? If they wanted to work it would be in a office not a costumer facing food prep job.
>>2654623It's funny how liberals think an optional internal division of the state's policy enforcement means they are fundamentally different things. They really need to believe police are not soldiers, that they just look like them lol
>>2654639>the most obstruse and academic part of capital concerned with Smith, Ricardo etc.<this will justify my position on THE TREATLERITESfucking lol
>>2654627>How so?Actual shit being produced for a socialized market, you moron? Like, if a fuckton of fucking cheese is made, anyone can go to Wallmart and buy it, as opposed to the "personalized experience" of getting a massage. Don't even get me started on real estate agents (also "service sector").
I'm so entirely fucking tired of you, Sabo.
>Marx explicitly says that productive labour refers to production of surplus value, not production of physical commodities.This is true, yet you live in a house made from bricks, laid by brick layers, made by brick shitters, gathered by mud gatherers, you fucking moron. You literally live in a physical world where masseur/real estate agent doesn't produce jack-shit physically (in the socialized production sense, only offering "personal services") and you have to eat physical food, shit in a physical toilet with a physical connection to a sewer system, instead of a lawyer.
>If a service worker cannot buy an hour of the service they provide with an hour's wages, then they are exploited.If a service worker doesn't actually produce anything >>>tangible<<< (notice how I'm not saying "physical" here) his or her payment comes from value flows from actually productive sectors. Yes, I'm saying with like 99% of contemporary Marxist economists that your "real estate agent's" payment comes from exploiting the fucking
productive working class in India or Bangladesh, you fucking idiot. This is not considered to be controversial outside the imperial core, fyi. You literally live in a bourgeois information bubble, PLUS a fucking imperial-core pseudo-Marxist bubble.
>They are producing surplus valueTell me EXACTLY HOW a real estate agent produces surplus value, you disgusting subhuman piece of trash.
I am so tired of your shit, you wouldn't even believe it.
>>2654639Wait, when were we talking about real estate agents? Just a second ago you were talking about starbucks baristas.
Sounds to me like you're trying to shift shit around
>>2654648>Just a second ago you were talking about starbucks baristas.<ctrl + f "starbucks"<0 results<ctrl + f "barista"<results where YOU talk about baristas, not MEwhy do you need to lie to sustain your way of life and psychological integrity?
>>2654647You're not a migrant worker.
>>2654650Just saw a thread on 4/pol/ where they showed black ass Afro-Americans showing up to anti-ICE protests with semi-automatics, and the majority of MAGA-tards were like "NOOO, NOT LIKE THIS!!!!"
For these scumbags the "le constitution" fetishism means nothing when the "bad guys" are doing it.
>>2654647>Actual shit being produced for a socialized market, you moron? But massages are produced for socialised market, as anything else within developed capitalist economy? You might as well argue that brick layers are not productive because they havent made the bricks. This is pure nonsense, there is no analysis in the distinction you are trying to make, its purely vibes based.
>>2654649Is a stock broker engaging in financial speculation productive labour? And the answer is, yes for the people who are getting enriched on it.
>>2654647The truthnuke that completely destroys the western left anti-communist
>>2654652I literally am, dude. Like, I don't even have a motive to lie about this. I'm a mother fucking migrant worker from ex-AES in fucking Germany.
>>2654657So you're a gusano and you want to lecture other people about how they're not real communists?
>>2654657Then explain how you can afford to spend days shitposting on end.
>>2654654>But massages are produced for socialised marketNever bought this line.
Actual socialized product:
>30 units on a shelf, gets reloaded if half is missing, people buy it"SERVICES"
>come in sir, have a massagefuck off, lmao
>>2654654>Is a stock broker engaging in financial speculation productive labour? And the answer is, yesliterally "no", you fucking moron
>>2654647>Like, if a fuckton of fucking cheese is made, anyone can go to Wallmart and buy it, as opposed to the "personalized experience" of getting a massage.How does this make any difference? If a masseuse is paid $20 to massage somebody, but the massage cost $50, then they are producing surplus value for their employer. How is this any different than a factory worker who gets paid $20 an hour when they produce $50 worth of goods in that hour?
>You literally live in a physical world where masseur/real estate agent doesn't produce jack-shit physically (in the socialized production sense, only offering "personal services") and you have to eat physical food, shit in a physical toilet with a physical connection to a sewer system, instead of a lawyer.That's of zero relevance for a person's class interests or their class position. The antagonism between a service worker and their boss is identical to that of a factory worker. The interest of the boss in both cases is to maximize profits, i.e. exploitation of the worker. This puts them in an irreconcilable class antagonism which eventually leads to the overthrow of the capitalist by the worker.
>Yes, I'm saying with like 99% of contemporary Marxist economists that your "real estate agent's" payment comes from exploiting the fucking productive working class in India or Bangladesh, you fucking idiot.Anybody who doesn't produce a physical good for a living is always exploiting those that do, and this would still be the case even under socialism. Do you think teachers in the USSR exploited factory workers? Your concept of exploitation is woefully incorrect. Marx says clearly that exploitation is a question of surplus value extraction, not production of physical commodities.
>This is not considered to be controversial outside the imperial core, fyi. True, my position is virtually universal among third world communists. There are no third worldist communist parties in the third world.
>Tell me EXACTLY HOW a real estate agent produces surplus valueI never said they did, you brought up that example. The definition of a strawman argument.
>>2654666
Satanic trips of truth.
>>2654660So what is the difference? You have not elaborated anything.
>>2654661Why not? Man is hired, through his labour makes money, part goes to his wage, surplus goes to his boss.
WHETHER OR NOT A COMMODITY IS A GOOD OR A SERVICE PERTAINS TO ITS USE-VALUE AND NOT ITS EXCHANGE-VALUE
IT IS THEREFORE IRRELEVANT TO THE FACT OF BEING A COMMODITY BECAUSE THE VALUE-FORM IS WHAT MAKES IT A COMMODITY NOT ITS USE-VALUE
HOLY FUCK
>>2654666
You are forgetting most important aspect of materialist analysis: does the guy doing it wear a hardhat?
>>2654668If factory workers or farmers go on strike, the nation grinds to a halt. If stock brokers, baristas, real estate agents, etc go on strike…society will continue on as normal. That's the essential difference between productive and unproductive labor for those of you too stupid to get it
>>2654666
>yet somehow all actual, physical, concrete goods come from the third world to the imperial core, while le "services" are from inside the imperial core
Again, you eat physical food, you shit into physical toilets, you post on a physical laptop, and you use a physical phone.
<le lawyer on the other hand
>>2654666
why did he done this'n?
>>2654669>WHETHER OR NOT A COMMODITY IS A GOOD OR A SERVICE PERTAINS TO ITS USE-VALUE AND NOT ITS EXCHANGE-VALUEImagine for a second the imperial core cut off from the offshored production processes.
No phones, no toilets, no foodstuff, no glasses, no plastic, no chairs, no furniture, no NOTHING physical, yet you have all your "services."
Try living in that hypothetical economy for a week, you moron.
>>2654671So the measure of productivity is how disruptive absence of that labour would be? In which case wouldnt state bureaucrats and police be the most productive of all? Or stock brokers for that matter, if those went on strike that would have actually a massive impact on economy.
>>2654671You're moving goalposts. The question isn't which sectors are of the most critical importance to the economy. That's just a comparison of which use values are most important to sustaining life. Obviously grain is more important to the economic life of a country than most services. But the issue at hand is the position of service workers in the system of capitalist class relations. Specifically, do the same class antagonisms which exist between factory workers and their bosses also exist between service workers and their bosses. Marx says clearly and in no uncertain terms that they do, and you haven't yet explained why they don't.
>>2654672THAT IS IRRELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT AT HAND YOU PROJECTING NARCISSIST
>>2654675THAT IS A NON-SEQUITUR YOU ANGRY CHILD
THE GEOPOLITICAL MEANS BY WHICH A SERVICE IS SOLD IS IRRELEVANT TO THE FACT OF A SERVICE BEING A COMMODITY YOU PRETENTIOUS BOY-MAN.
>>2654675Does that mean workers in factories who produce unimportant, frivolous things aren't workers either? Are third world workers at the Funko Pop factory not proletarians either? Are they class enemies who exploit others?
>>2654653>>2654650It was always like this. You have to give rightoids the taste of their own medicine ten times over.
>>2654529>Revolution in the imperial core is impossible NOT because those dang meddling kids posting shit about "treatlerism", but because it is literally against the class interests of the majority of the American people.Two matters of confusion
1: Revolution does not have to be in the interests of the majority, nor even need the active support of the majority, in order to happen. Historcally revolutions, whether bourgeois, or proletarian, or military juntas, only need to be carried out by a highly dedicated vanguard that strikes against a vulnerable and despised regime at the right moment. The majority of Americans don't like the current regime under either party, so even if they don't like the revolutionaries, they might not fight back out of indfference. You can always count on the indifference of a majority of the population who are simply looking not to get killed and don't have the time to organize revolution or counter revolution, even when it's in their class interests.
2: Even if revolutions are in the interests of the majority, they only start to pay off after victory, which comes after a long and costly civil war, which is usually by itself not in anyone in the country's best interests.i
3: Even if it were some kind of unbreakable law of history that revolutions need to be in the best interests of the majority to happen (it isn't a law of history at all) that still would mean revolution is possible in America, you would just need further decay of the empire to lower the average standard of living, which is actively happening and probably only going to get worse. To organize now before those conditions take hold is good because it means you will have a net ready to catch the people who fall from their previous position of petty bourgeois or labor aristocrat comfort into the proletariat, where they can be organized along their new class interests
4: It is merely asserted as dogma that revolution is not in the interests of the majority of Americans. Putting aside the distinctions already made in points 1 and 2 about the
results of a revolution vs. the grueling process of revolutionary civil war, I don't think a majority of Americans are labor aristocrat or petty bourgeois. But even if they are, this will become untenable as the empire collapses (see point 3)
5: Class traitors exist. They are not common but they do exist
6: If America cannot be invaded by "JDPON" because "Nukes" then it follows that American civil war is your only hope so you should encourage it rather than crow about how it's not in America's "best interests" when you hate them and want them to die anyway. You're actually going against your own best interests by discouraging Americans from fighting each other in a civil war.
>>2654680they don't have a real theory. just vibes and feefees
Fucking moron asked mod to enforce Ordinance 4 and now retarded mod bans people who have never engaged in 'real proletarian' rhetoric ever
You faggots just assume everyone who diaagrees with you is a TWist and thinks baristas are not workers
>>2654680The consumers of Funko Pops are the enemies, not the producers.
If anything the workers are extra-revolutionary – they create a steady supply of dollars for China
and ensure the American animal remains a retard.
>>2654690>The consumers of Funko Pops are the enemies, not the producers. Why are the producers not the enemies? Your position is that class is determined not by relations of production, but of the importance of produced use-values to an economy and people's survival. If the funko pop factory went on strike the nation wouldn't grind to a halt, which means those workers must not be real proletarians.
>>2654653they understand power. the essence of power is hypocrisy. you must disallow your enemies to do things that you are allowed to do. power means successfully enforcing double standards.
>>2654692Because the producers are proletarians who are doing work by producing Funko Pops. You are breaking Ordinance 4. Zis is very dangerousse for you.
The consumers however are not all proletarians, hence enemies. The consumers who
are proletarians are engaging in behavour unfit for proletarians, and thus need to be re-educated at the very least.
>>2654690So baristas who process coffee beans into drinkable coffee are evil parasites but factory workers who process plastic into funko pops are not parasites? What the difference?
>>2654695>Because the producers are proletarians who are doing work by producing Funko PopsBut you're contradicting yourself. You argued that the fact that nobody would notice if baristas went on strike was proof that they weren't proletarians. Nobody would notice or care if the funko pop factory went on strike either, ergo according to your logic they are exploiters and class enemies.
>>2654685I said "two matters of confusion" but I ended up having more than two points, sorry
>>2654674he'll get it. the euroids will do nothing and say thank you daddy
>>2654694he's doing what they want. they're riding trump for as much as they can get. whatever doesn't work they'll say it wasn't us, just crazy trump who was never really one of us so let's forget it. he is a neo-con/deep-state wet dream and they'll let him go as long as they can.
>>2654470Pretty sure China and Russia together could take out the US.
>>2654701Doesn't look like it, if anything Denmark and the EU have been pretty clear this is some kind of line in the sand for them. Trump meanwhile is genuinely poised to start world war 3 over fucking Greenland and it's hilarious. What a poetic way for this godforsaken empire to end.
>>2654702>Pretty sure China and Russia together could take out the US.Russia and the USA both have 5000 nukes but a full nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia/China would just make most of the world a wasteland. The yield of some modern thermonuclear weapons is 15-20x stronger than the ones dropped on Japan, and if all of them launch, and most of them detonate, that is irreversible damage to the biosphere which we all share. The atmosphere and oceans are not nationalist like we are.
>>2654701>the euroids will do nothing and say thank you daddyI'm not so sure. The main leverage the US once exercised over Europe was the extent to which it was responsible for their defence. The fact that the Euros depended on the US military presence provided by NATO, combined with their aligned imperialist interests, meant that the Europeans were loathe to ever seriously challenge the Americans. However if the US is now willing to attack a NATO member and annex its territory, then this erases both of these incentives. The Europeans cannot outsource their defence to the US if the US becomes a threat to their own security. They cannot cooperate on the basis of aligned interests if their interests are in direct conflict. Why would Europe continue their alliance with the US if there is nothing compelling them to do so?
>>2654705>a full nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia/China would just make most of the world a wasteland.Isn't that just going to happen anyways due to climate change?
>>2654697You are confusing me with anothed person. I never mentioned baristas. I am chagosposter. I do not engage in real proletarian discourse (although the retarded crayon eating mod banned me for it. And they cannot even link to me the post that they excuse me of breaking Ord4)
>>2654708the effects are much more immediate in the case of full scale nuclear war, and also the nuclear war will make the effects of climate change worse.
>>2654705Which means full nuclear war would be the final option. No one wants to decimate the entire world. No one would be stupid enough to drop nukes because as soon as someone does the retaliation would end the world. It would be a war fought solely on the ground, sea, and air and on the sea. There would be plenty of smaller missile strikes though.
>>2654685Good post. Especially 3 and 4
>>2654671>That's the essential difference between productive and unproductive labor for those of you too stupid to get itthat's not marx's definition though?
Wait it just occurred to me, he's bitching about Denmark yet he sent this threat to the PM of Norway. Is the Kalmar Union back?
>>2654704>>2654706europe has no military capability to fight the US and have no capability to fight an economic war with the US. They sold themselves out to the US already to cut off Russian energy and send all their weapons to Ukraine under the "collective West" idea.
They can't fight Russia and the US at the same time. They will have to choose, and they will decide they have to keep the US on side, so they will try to appease the US by giving Trump Greenland. Trump has barely started turning the screws, but they will crack. mark words.
>>2654720>europe has no military capability to fight the USNot conventionally, but they do have a nuclear deterrent. Regardless, they obviously wouldn't fight a war with America over Greenland. But that doesn't mean they are just going to take it. They could reconstitute a NATO 2.0 that excludes the US, they could seize American bases in Europe and force them to withdraw their military assets. They could begin deviating from them on foreign policy vis a vis China and other issues.
>no capability to fight an economic war with the USThe EU is a larger economy than America, so the US couldn't wage any kind of economic warfare against them without also hurting themselves. This has been shown by how badly the tariffs have harmed the US itself. It's also worth noting that America seems determined to wage economic war on Europe regardless of Greenland.
>They can't fight Russia and the US at the same time. They will have to chooseI don't see why they would. They don't actually have to fight the Americans to break with them, and the Russians don't have much ambition beyond Ukraine. Even if they did Europe still retains its own nuclear deterrent like I mentioned.
>>2654671>If factory workers or farmers go on strike, the nation grinds to a halt. If stock brokers, baristas, real estate agents, etc go on strike…society will continue on as normal. That's the essential difference between productive and unproductive labor for those of you too stupid to get ithospital workers don't produce surplus value, but any nation will grind to a halt without health care workers. Courts don't produce surplus value, but nations will grind to a halt without courts to settle disputes. Government doesn't produce surplus value, but nations grind to a halt without governments. This is why Marx doesn't define productive vs . unproductive labor based on whether nations "grind to a halt" but based on whether surplus value is produced. It's about production of surplus value. Nothing else. "Unproductive" was never meant to be pejorative. Especially when you consider that most unproductive workers only got non-surplus-value producing jobs because it is the only job they could get. Would you rather someone scab against productive workers or get an unproductive job? Would you rather someone be unemployed or get an unproductive job. Have you forgotten about the reserve army of labor under capitalism?
And when the imperial core bourgeoisie outsource the jobs that produce surplus value to the periphery, it is foolish to blame the workers in the core for not not getting jobs that produce surplus value, since they don't chose what jobs they get. The bourgeoisie gatekeep the jobs and decides who gets them based on who will work for the least money. Imperialism dictates that the workers in the periphery get lower wages, so naturally the bourgeoisie in the core will outsource the surplus value producing jobs to the periphery. When this happens the workers in the periphery are exploited by the bourgeoisie in the core. In the core we have "job creator" propaganda. We are told that we should be thankful to porky for "Creating jobs." Obviously porky doesn't create jobs. Porky owns means of production, and gatekeeps jobs. He outsources to the periphery. The peripheral workers need not "thank" the "job creators" either, but neither should they blame the workers in the core for not getting these jobs. Rather than our wages being as low as yours, your wages should be as high as ours. But our CIA coups you if you try that. If only Osama had flown planes into the CIA headquarters.
>>2654724Europe will not do any of those things. Most of its leadership are Atlanticists who don't know anything besides US-Euro alliance. Most of them are desperate to keep America in and just wait for Trump to die or his term to expire so they can get another Biden and get back to normal. Kicking the US out of Europe is the last thing most of them want. They will be too divided to do any of that.
And they are more economically dependent on the US than vice versa. They depend on US oil and gas for one, and the US is not dependent on them for anything.
>>2654734
The mods should make a rule against posts like these, its not even related to what I wrote at all. I really feel like leftypol is a bit botted now.
>>2654730ritsuko has always been best girl
>>2654736In what universe does my post (
>>2654730 ) have anything to do with what you're saying? how am I not supposed to think I'm talking to a bot or a troll?
Someone fucked up the continuity of threads
>>2654742
Oe sapo gil conchetumare de que chucha tai hablando
>>2654688Well then stop trying to pretend that's not the argument you make.
>>2654729So how big a military does the EU have compared to the US? Only comparison that matters tbh
>>2654735Mass tagging people and then saying nothing specific to that post violates Rule 11
>Posts should, overall, be conductive to an informed and productive discussion. >>2654733>Most of its leadership are Atlanticists who don't know anything besides US-Euro alliance.Yeah because they actually used to get something out of that alliance. If the US has nothing to offer them and no way to force them to stay, then there is no reason to think they will.
>Most of them are desperate to keep America in and just wait for Trump to die or his term to expire so they can get another Biden and get back to normal. That's true, and if anything would prevent them from retaliating and dissolving the transatlantic alliance it would be that. However even the fact that this was able to happen in the first place means that the US is no longer a reliable ally. Even if a democrat comes to power next election, how long before another MAGA retard comes along and fucks things up again? The long term self interest of the European ruling class would no longer be served by an alliance with America.
>They depend on US oil and gas for one, and the US is not dependent on them for anything.The US has a trade deficit with the EU, they import more from Europe than they export to them.
https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/europe/european-union >>2654751What are you talking about?
>>2654745>Only comparison that matters tbhIt's moot in this case because both have nuclear weapons, and the geographical distance between the two means that neither could decisively defeat the other. The Europeans will obviously not fight over Greenland, and if they tried they would very quickly lose. However the question is the fallout of an annexation, i.e. would the Europeans actually dissolve their alliance with the US. I think it's at least a possibility.
>>2654729I'd like to see a map of the EU showing each country with their economic powers. I'd also like to know how big their military is.
>>2654758another anon gave a better counter argument here
>>2654725 Has anyone been keeping an eye on this besides me?
https://iceout.org/en/It seems like most reports outside of Minneapolis are light EXCEPT for Florida. There has been a massive uptick in sighting, arrests, and people trying to obstruct ICE. Everywhere else is light sightings, like seeing them roam around outside or sit in their cars or a traffic stop here or there. With the occasional unconfirmed arrest by people not wearing ICE uniforms so it could be or it could not.
Now here is where I find this curious.
>the rise in ICE in Florida is mainly around Disney Land (why?)>ICE isn't pushing hard into NYC at all despite threats to do so>it appears almost all their effort is focused on just Minneapolis In terms of trying to predict whether they can rise into some super secret police to keep us all in check, they have a long way to go. Trump would be better off using the National Guard but he's doing this stupid shit with ICE instead. All it's done is create the playbook for deterring them and making more people openly carry guns in response. Is it because he desperately wants to beat Obama's deportation score or what? It does not seem like he's playing 4D chess at all at this point. It seems he's being retarded and helping people coordinate a playbook for revolt.
>>2654758Based MEDDLEposter.
>>2654763One other thing to consider would be the fact that the EU is far less centralized than the US, and there's always the danger that some countries could be peeled away and undermine their collective ability to challenge America. This, alongside vain hope that things will go back to "normal" once a Dem gets elected, would be the greatest dangers to any European effort to break with Washington.
>>2654758>"socially necessary" side note, but the "socially necessary" in "socially necessary labor-time" doesn't mean "necessary for society." The "necessary" adjective is meant to modify "labor-time," not "socially" which marx is just using to mean "average" as in a statistic taken for the
whole society which ignores the skill of the particular worker, or the differences between poorly organized workplaces and unusually well organized workplaces..
>>2654758> Also you know the Soviet Union had statistical bureaus and planning ministries staffed by people who weren't doing productive labor either.this is why left critics of the soviet union were quick to identify the soviet bureaucrat or factory manager as bourgeois lol, and even orwell has his "inner party" in 1984 who enjoy a higher standard of living than the "outer party" and proles.
>>2654769It's also meant to discount the difference between different aspects of production so you don't end up with incoherent divisions not based on relations of production or the extraction of surplus value. For example, in a restaurant the hours worked by the wait staff and the hours worked by the kitchen staff would both be counted as SNLT even though the waiters didn't technically make the food. Their contributions were still necessary to create the final commodity, i.e. the meal on the customer's table. This is what makes their labour "socially necessary."
>>2654773the same distinction between waiters (transporting dishes) and chefs (producing dishes) can also be made between truckers (transporting commodities) and factory workers (producing commodities)
>>2654760France and UK has nuclear weapons not the EU.
>>2654782France is part of the EU, and they along with Britain have issued several statements backing Denmark.
>>2654766maybe he wants to provoke a reaction and use that as a pretext for some action he wants to take?
EU is removing troops from Greenland.
>>2654786But they won't launch nukes because of Denmark. The US only needs to give special bribes to them in particular to take away the nuclear option from the larger EU is my main point.
>>2654766>Trump would be better off using the National Guard but he's doing this stupid shit with ICE instead.National Guard aren't loyal to him, they're loyal to their specific states and he'd have a hard time getting his goons into leadership positions to "remove" Democrats or prevent anyone from undermining him. ICE is completely loyal to him, that's all he cares about.
>>2654791I doubt they'd launch nukes over Greenland, but my point was more that the presence of nukes on both sides makes conventional military confrontation beyond Greenland unlikely. Again the question isn't whether the US could take Greenland by force. They definitely could. It's a question of whether the Europeans would react forcefully vis a vis NATO and the presence of US troops in Europe.
An actual Europe vs USA war would be hilarious. The rights been whinging about muh western civ preservation forever now and the thought of hood nuykuh burger troops fondling Euro women on their own soil cracks me up.
>>2654795The Europeans literally have no means of "acting forcefully." Every major European power has a US military base on its soil, and every EU state gets most of its weapons from the US, most of its munitions from the US, most of its tech from the US, and is dependent on US logistics like satellites to even run their own military.
The US is strong-arming the EU into giving them Greenland because they have no other choice. The EU are cucks that gave away their national sovereignty after WW2 and are paying the price for it. Any kind of EU "response" would be like, 20 or 30 years away at the earliest.
I guess the alternative if France/Germany are REALLY desperate is getting closer with China to gradually replace their reliance on America, but even that'll take decades
>>2654796> The rights been whinging about muh western civ preservation forever now and the thought of hood nuykuh burger troops fondling Euro women on their own soil cracks me up.that caused a lot of seethe in WW2
>>2654795the answer is no they wouldn't
>>2654796EU right is a loyal lapdog of US, even neolibs have more spine than them.
If any greenland anons are reading this, please start thinking of a plan now.
>>2654797>Every major European power has a US military base on its soilThat actually works in favour of the Europeans in this case. Those troops wouldn't be able to operate without European cooperation, and even if the Europeans depend on US arms in the long term, they would have more than enough firepower to force those troops to go home. In other words, Europe could retaliate by forcing US troops to leave the continent and closing US bases. This would be well within their capabilities and a huge blow to American Imperial power.
>The EU are cucks that gave away their national sovereignty after WW2Yeah they outsourced their defense to America in exchange for security. But now America doesn't offer them security, so they have no reason to continue this alliance. The US isn't going to attack mainland Europe, there will be no general conflagration between the two. If there was there are two European states with nuclear weapons. The US would have no way to forge them to comply. If they can't be enticed or forced to stay, then why would they stay?
>nukes on both sides makes conventional military confrontation beyond Greenland unlikely.
France and UK are not the EU. They have their own interests and will sacrifice the rest when push comes to shove. It is not only two sides here.
>It's a question of whether the Europeans would react forcefully vis a vis NATO and the presence of US troops in Europe.
They wont. They are between Russia and the US and already made their choice. Nato just spent the last 4 years giving Ukraine everything they had. They are taped out and wont fight.
>>2654792But it's also lacking strength to strong arm the country if that's his end game. Because ICE isn't doing shit besides just terrorizing suburbs.
>>2654806>They have their own interests and will sacrifice the rest when push comes to shove.Possible but they've done nothing to indicate that their interests lie with America rather than Europe.
>They are between Russia and the US and already made their choiceThey made their choice under an entirely different paradigm, one that will disappear if the US attacks Greenland.
>They are taped out and wont fight.They don't have to fight, they just have to dissolve NATO and expel US troops.
Wait is it actually go time? Just because 15 German soldiers pulled out?
>>2654811There were only 15 germans there to begin with. What a waste of airplane fuel.
>>2654786You are so naive. It's incredible.
>>2654818That's all they fucking sent?
is it like actually fucking happening this time?
K
>>2654822I don't think the Trump administration is that stupid but then again maybe they are.
>>2654828I see no contradiction between those 2 statements.
I mean buying it requires a treaty so whether he uses carrot or stick to get denmark and greenland to the table he does not have the votes to ratify it in the senate or house.
so it's gotta be the military option? best case he just rolls tanks in and says he's running greenland now and nobody dies or anything. Then eurocucks roll over, or more likely wait for the midterms. I'm just wondering if there is euro pushback if he gets himself impeached
I wrote a 10 paragraph reply to Sabo and then our gracious mods (or at least one of them) decided to ban me…
.likd, I. C.ant post for shit, i cant reply for shit eitherand these wypeelpjg own .yla f
>>2654841>>2654842(Sorry, your crit is valid!)
I was shittink om the toilet and just boomp-boomped the entirity of .y post.
I',?m sorry
I just want tl say that dven fho yI,,,y
>>2654855There's no way this is real.
>>2654061Because all the white gun nuts joined ICE.
>>2654841Next time write in notepad and save your conversations then
Why does Trump write like Christine W. Chandler?
>>2654858We live in a clown world of course it's real!
>>2654855Do you guys read it on his voice?
>>2654855the president yanks deserve
>>2654241A mosquito net costs like 5$, fuck your landlord but it would take like 6 minutes if your day
>>2654810>Possible but they've done nothing to indicate that their interests lie with America rather than Europe.Brexit was the UK stepping away from EU and getting closer to the US. France's main interest is in Africa not the EU.
>one that will disappear if the US attacks Greenland.Greenland is not integral to the EU or even Denmark. No paradigm has changed.
>They don't have to fight, they just have to dissolve NATO and expel US troops.And how exactly will they expel US troops? They would ask with a little quaver in their voice and be told no.
>>2654115I fee like "labor aristocracy" tends to be used in nationalist and racialist terms. Essentially, it's used to try to say that the people of this nation or race are fundamentally reactionary because of superior wealth. In reality, the labor aristocracy are pretty straightforwardly the modern "professional-managerial class" of all nations. It is these people who cling the hardest to the modern ideology of the international bourgeoisie. They are the most likely to support things like the IMF, NATO, WTO, NATO, the EU, the UN, "urbanism," "stakeholder" economics, "global village" initiatives, uncritically support Western invention, call nations that won't play ball with the global capitalist order "authoritarian kleptocracies," and sabre-rattle against the influence of Russia and China. And it is a group that is actively dying and has less and less of an influence on any kind of politics. I think our era is one in which the politics of the broader international bourgeoisie is being rejected by the proletariat at large precisely because the labor aristocracy has shrunk down to almost nothing. People only supported this brand of liberalism while it was the ideology of growing prosperity.
Trump berated Norway for not getting the Nobel prize, which is awarded by Sweden, and will occupy Greenland in retaliation which is owned by Denmark.
DJT has undertaken the great historical task of uniting Denmark, Sweden and Norway in a Greater Scandiniviastan. Critical
>>2654796It is rightoid tradition to destroy Europe every 100 years lmao
>>2654154>>2654187>>2654190Do you think he fantasized about Clavicular taking his virginity?
>To achieve his muscle-bound, chiselled-jaw appearance, the online streamer swears by bone-smashing: hitting oneself in the face with either a fist or a hammer in an effort to increase jaw bone definition. He also allegedly takes crystal meth to stay skinny and has discussed the drug’s use for staying slim on his channel.Why are these people such freaks?
>>2654957its insane how much 1 retard can do
Archive anon = Misato = leftypol twitter account
>>2654976ive been on that side of the internet (looksmaxxing) and the reason why they are so wierd is they an obession with being perfect like a "i beat my face with hammers" type and they constantly compare themselves to other (often better looking) men which creates this insecurity that have to "mog" people
this is what clav used to look like btw
>>2654047<have a good day>you have a bad one!Lmao, honestly suprised he didn't put the 'Sir' on the end of that.
You yankees are so funny in the way you insult each other, so passive aggressive, it's much more amusing, we just call each other cunts and variations of knob end and etc until one of the two gets beaten up.
>>2654976>>2654980The whole looksmaxxing thing reminds me of 4chan's transgender community. They may not be transitioning but they want to kill themselves over a few millimeters of bone just like us transsisters
>>2654983Trump is unironically clinically retarded. Truly embodies the median amerikkkan
Donald Trump has invited Vladimir Putin to the Gaza "peace board," the Kremlin says.
Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman, says Russia is "studying all details of the offer" and "hopes for discussions with Washington to go over all the nuances," per RIA Novosti
>>2654671hey remember covid when baristas and cashiers were the only people other than doctors dubbed 'essential' and forced onto the frontlines of the pandemic
>>2655009i think that might be more about keeping labor disciplined and not getting any ideas about dropping out of the workforce
>>2655014taking this at face value doesn't it prove my point anyway? i.e., why would there be a specific concern for service/retail workers dropping out?
although even then, it's already automatically disciplined by being the most expendable workforce in the first world economy. lockdown was a brief period where this stopped being true and the ruling class had to make all kinds of exceptions for them that didn't apply to anyone else (besides again doctors/nurses)
>>2654855NATO is dead. Imperialist unity is dead. The conditions for socialist revolution get more favorable every day
>>2654047The troop who comes to my country and murders and rapes is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The cop who shoots other Americans and kneels on their necks is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The bourgeois American is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The zionist American is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The petty bourgeois American is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The racist American is an HONEST AMERICAN.
The murderous mafioso or gangbanger is an HONEST AMERICAN.
These "leftists"
These "Anarchists
These "Socialists"
These "Communists"
These "Black Panthers"
These "Anti Imperialists"
These "workers"
…These are dishonest Americans. Democrat voting liberals who slander communism with their very existence. I hate them far more than I hate honest Americans. They put out their bloodstained hands for a handshake, and when I refuse it they cry for their moderators to ban me for being "politically incorrect" on the "politically incorrect" website.
I regard all Americans as murderous subhuman cockroaches, but the murderous subhuman cockroaches who pretend to be my friend, those are the worst Americans of all. We will bury you. "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror." Time is running out, dishonest Americans. Soon you will no longer be able to perform "leftism" and you will have to answer to the world for your crimes.
>>2655020I think you're right. Those jobs are also indispensable for realizing profit
>>2655030Sadly this is cope
>>2655009and notice how all of the reactionaries wish to punish retail workers. its not a coincidence.
>>2655033You hide behind the honest Americans. They bleed first. You bleed last. That is why I hate you even more.
>>2655031>I regard all Americans as murderous subhuman cockroaches, but the murderous subhuman cockroaches who pretend to be my friend, those are the worst Americans of all.I wept reading this, anon. U R true prophet
>>2655035>Americans totally babe it worse than the rest of the world upon whom they feedEducate me, eternal victim!
>>2654980>>2655000they actually are transitioning. I call it "cisgender dysphoria."
It's when men want to transition to be MORE manly because they don't feel manly enough
it's when women want to transition to be MORE womanly because they don't feel womanly enough.
>>2655035Calm yourself i am not an american
>>2655031Kindly do not derail the klavikoola
discourse of the shityanks. They'll cry to the mods.
>>2655039Maybe if we taught everyone to accept their body as it is then no one would feel the need to transition at all.
>>2655044come here my love
>>2655045 >>2655047You're asking yanks not to be obsessed about looks and superficiality
Be reasonable
>>2655031Falsifier theory
>>2655032sadly you are braindead
Who is Ginjeet? Anything particular about him?
>>2655062Unfortunately, there's a real chance EU accepts it's fate as an American vassal and hands over Greenland with NATO fully intact.
>>2655062Sure. 2 more weeks until nato collapses and the imperialists shoot themselves in the foot for no reason at all
>>2655079NTA but it's not an unserious conjecture to assume that NATO will fall. The EU has been a waning superpower for a long time, and historically it is not only a place that conquers, it is also a place that
is conquered. America and Russia attempting to slice the EU into pieces for subjugation is well within the purview of imperialism.
>>2655085
naive little child
it/s all part of the spectacle
euros are vassals
>>2655075lol if the euros were vassals they would've handed the island over to trump the first time he asked in 2019
>>2655079>he thinks NATO beat Russia in ukrainexDDDDDDDDDD its already over, NATO lost both militarily and politically. It's time to let go bruh
>>2655087>war is spectacleimperial core suburbia ass take
>leftypol be like: its all spectacle!!1!! imperialists are more united than ever!!!1111 everything is kayfabe trickery masterminded by the (declining) americans who pull all the strings at once!!!
wake tf up
>>2655031>they’re still at thisOkay you’re totally Feds. You need to sleep eventually.
is the new black panthers yet maoist/MLM?
>>2655099I used to call them feds but now I'm coming over to the idea that they mean what they say.
Basically in america if you express disapproval of the horrible imperialist things the US government does, you get called "unAmerican" which you and I wear as a badge of honor. but if you try to reach out to these anons, as an American who disapproves of your government, they understandably don't believe you. They see you as a "dishonset American" instead of "unAmerican" and you're holding out your "bloodstained hand" and so on.
For these guys, and I get why they feel this way, if you're American, and you haven't died fighting for Communism, you aren't a real Communist, just a poser. That's the bar they hold you to. Because America already made so many people die for Communism it's only fair, in their eyes, that the "dishonest" Americans who claim to be Communist should be on the front lines, fighting the "honest" Americans, to prove themselves.
So I understand it. But they don't want us to simply "understand" it obviously. They want us to prove them wrong. If we succeed, great, if we fail, that's one less American they have to worry about.
So I get why they talk this way. It's basically recruitment.
>>2655091Who was talking about russia?
>>2655103Honestly, if that’s how they feel, then they’re hypocrites
>>2655091>the euros were vassals they would've handed the island over to trump the first time he asked in 2019Historically, vassalage was never as simple as king controls everyone no questions asked. There was always fights over what exactly vassals had to do, especially before monarchs centralized the state.
Anyway, EU being under America's thumb doesn't necessarily mean they will obey everything immediately. There will back and forth setting out what the terms are behind the scenes. The EU is fundamentally dependent on the US economically and militarily while Russia looms over them at the same time so there will be some concession.
>>2655105Yeah but I've basically accepted that hypocrisy is the essence of power. To wield power is to disallow others to do the things that you do, and to hold others to standards that you don't hold yourself. They want power over the people who have held power over them for so long, so that manifests as hypocrisy. Of course they have double standards. When two people struggle over a knife, one gets to hold the handle, and the other is forced to hold the blade.
>>2655100they're pro-cop, see
>>2655084 >>2655127>mass tor baitthat picture proves nothing, and neither does the video in the OP, which suggests the opposite. you cannot take individual moments and anecdotes and pretend they are the "average" scenario
>>2655127tbh i do not doubt that a watered down and revised form of black panthers would surge/emerge based on the american education system. and how the BPP program would be watered down to "black communitarism and intersectionalism" when the BPP at 60s not only held intersectional but anti-revisionist marxist stances.
>>2655136Well we already had the "New Black Panthers" who were accused of being revisionist, but idk if the guys in the OP video are the same as them. I really don't know about all the groups claiming lineage from the black panthers but there's several of them from what I understand.
I've often thought about the US prison system, how much more brutal it is than even the most absurd propaganda about the soviet gulags, and meanwhile even in Tsarist Russia, revolutionaries were often exiled to villages in Siberia where they easily escaped. Imagine if Fred Hampton were simply exiled to… idk… Alaska or something, instead of killed by the FBI. I don't want to say the Bolsheviks had it easy. They definitely didn't. But it's remarkable how many revolutionaries crucial to October 1917 were repeatedly exiled to Siberia instead of executed. Lenin's older brother was executed, but that's because he tried to partake in an actual assassination against the head of state, and even then, some of his co-conspirators were pardoned. Compare exile to a village in Siberia to the US prison system, which is full of rape, torture, gangs, racism, solitary confinement, and literal slavery.
>>2655104Russia was partly responsible for the death of NATO, as they're both crushing it on the battlefield and outproducing them in arms like artillery shell production. the DPRK produces and delivers to Russia twice what europe provides to ukraine, and the europeans consider UA and particularly Crimea essential to continental security so it's not like they're not trying
>>2655106see this is the problem with Appeasement, which the traumatized euros analyze everything through. Giving Greenland up without a fuss will just have the americans back next week demanding iceland and the falkland islands, and then the UK the week after that. At a certain point the current leaders of euro bourgeois society will be forced to say 'no' or bourgeois society will find leaders that can. America will get Greenland, this is seemingly inevitable, but the current euro leaders have no choice in trying to defend it (their careers depend on it) and it'll be the final nail in the coffin for NATO, the transatlantic relationship will never be the same.
yes the euros are dependent on american military intelligence but only for their unnecessary war in ukraine which could end at any time. economically they have a bit of wiggle room as China is the #1 place they import from
>>2655177>the people immune to the law broke the law!!!1!see
>>2655108 Unique IPs: 102