What do you think of communo-monarchism?
Can the holy proleterian spirit be passed down trough your seed? And as such only the inheritors of this great proleterian spirit are fit to rule?
When did Kim become anointed? Was it at birth or later in adulthood? Has any council pronounced an infallible declaration on this?
>says south korean spy agency
Lol
>>2689561North korea has been ruled by the kim family since its inception theres no reason to believe thats going to change as long as theres still a kim in charge.
>>2689548it's just like le monarchy!!
Boring. Get better material.
Picrel, KJU personally taking you on one last funride before you go in to the dump.
>>2689637>it's just like le monarchy!!I mean how is it not.
>>2689575One day you will be BTFOd by a non-kim head of party just like the same claims were btfo in Cuba after Raul.
Nice """"""AES""""" you got there, multipoltards.
Ya know she has to get elected right?
monarchy is better because it is more diverse
in democracy the outcome is always the same
>>2689720yes. build the pizza hut, kim.
I guess I’ll be the one to say it, nepo baby
>>2689706I eagerly await that day tho i sadly dont see that happening
>>2689720>DPRK has a popular leaderLMAO
>>2689575kims are mascots, figureheads, who cares. the real work of running the state is done by other people.
>>2689742The american people voted trump in power.
Cant say the same for north korea.
>>2689747>Stalin is le monarch because the libs didn't VOOT in an interclass bourgeois electionok lib
>>2689754Its funny how stalinoids are against elections because they always lose them lol.
>>2689756>if you let the bourgeoisie run in elections and vote vote, the communists lose because the elections become rigged in the favor of whoever has the most money to spend on campaigning and advertising and the prole don't vote because they're at work and don't want to wait in line for hours to choose between bourgeois candidates.wow, fascinating, tell us more. You look at america and see that the candidate with more funding wins 95% of the time. really interesting stuff.
>>2689747Does it matter?
The people running the show are not acting in the interests of those who elected them but the donor class.
I rather have no voting but whoever ends up on the top is obligated to work for the people's interests.
This is the difference between the form and content of "democracy".
>>2689759Whatever helps you cope with the fact nobody likes you guys irl.
>>2689751FUcking based.
Lasalle was right.
Marx was just a 19th century 4chud.
I always new a monarchy was the right governance for communism.
>Stalin was a Monarch. >Xi is a monarch and so is Kim. >Tito and Hoxha were both Monarchs. >Ulbricht and Honecker were Monarchs.When Tito died and they switched to a rotating presidency every month (lol) the country turned to shit and fell apart because there was no longer monarchy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MladorossyEven in Workers and Resources Soviet Republic you play as a communist God King.
Monarcho-Communism is the future.
If we switch to Monarcho-Communism, Jesus Christ will come down from heaven and lead the world towards immortality and cosmic domination.
<We need a MONBOL flag >>2689760>The people running the show are not acting in the interests And what guarantee the guys who are in power who arent even elected and dont even have to pretend to be beholden to populace will? The only thing unelected rulerdom is beholden to and guaranteed to act in the interests of (atleast if they're smart) is the military or whatever group has the most guns.
>>2689770the problem with monarchy is one generation you get a reluctant leader with common sense and empathy for Le People and the next generation you get an inbred freak who does Epstein shit
>>2689779>And what guarantee the guys who are in power who arent even electedThat Kim Jong Un was not in the Epstein files.
>>2689784Yeah but that's the same shit with all systems. Stalin's sons turned out to be ok (vasya was disgraced by corn lord because he was questioning his dad's death, he started drinking after the death). Kim Jong Un seems to be ok. Let's be real, democratic systems naturally select for who is the best opportunist and public manipulator. At least with communist monarchies you have some pressure put on your kids.
>>2689787If he was a person who hated his people he would be in the files. Why do you think absolute power is somehow bad? Like why would someone turn into a psycho with absolute power? I have played video games with absolute power and I felt bad for hurting video game characters, i just want to build things and help people. You hurt people out of powerlessness or when the system you are ruling becomes too complex. Fix the system and grant yourself absolute power then you will feel the pulse of the populace and you will naturally feel good about yourself. City builders exist for a reason.
>>2689789Notice how you are conditioned to fight and be afraid of being killed in like FPS games but when you are playing strategy games with overwhelming power you kinda feel bad for defeating a weakling. Even if he was a nuisance before.
>>2689789>If he was a person who hated his people he would be in the files. That doesnt even make any sense wtf does kim jong un hypotetically raping foreign children have to do with him hating his people.
>have played video games with absolute power and I felt bad for hurting video game characters, i just want to build things and help people.And how i am supposed to trust you? Trust you with the fate of and lives of everyone?
I think stalinoids are bigger cattle than even chuds are since they seem to be completely okay with the proles or even themselves having no choice in who lords over them. Out of some deluded belief that they may oneday get to achieve the position of leader and rule over everyone else.
Kinda similar to how right-wingers get tricked into defending billionaries in hopes they will one day be one of them.
>>2689763>Whatever helps you cope with the fact nobody likes you guys irl.Cool bro, tell us more about unpopular the party is in the DPRK.
>>2689803<Kim hates his le people thats why the party has enhanced socialist construction and people first socialism just because he fucking hates them, okay?! Jesus only know how you find this site, i'm surprised you can even operate a coputer.
>>2689805Yeah the north korean communist party is so popular they even allow bourgeuise candidates to run because they know they're so popular with the people that they're no threat.
Oh wait a minute they dont and all potential candidates for election are handpicked by them instead whoops.
>>2689808When did i ever say any of that?
Wrong. Communist Korea is not monarchy. Communist Korea is democratic dictatorship of proletariat which build consolidation of revolution by maintaining continuity of revolutionary leadership through mass-line, not birth right. The Party elect leader.
>>2689817Strange because so far the leadership of the party has been passed down due to birthright and it seems to be so for the foreseeable future.
>>2689837Look at all those unelected politicians.
>>2689812DPRK literally has a multi-party system with a socdem party and a religious socialist party
>>2689839>socdem party and a religious socialist partyYeah two puppet parties under the control of the communist party.
>>2689803Au contraire my fren.
I am under no illusion that I will ever become the top dictator whatever. All I want is to make sure the top dictator acts in my interests. If that is too hard for you to understand, what can I say?
>>2689844>All I want is to make sure the top dictator acts in my interestsUh-huh and how will you accomplish that?
>>2689843The democrat and republican parties are two puppets under control of the epstein class.
>>2689846By making his job of managing the coordination aspects of the economy easier? You do know it's hard to manage people and sometimes you just want everyone to do the right thing and help each other + self organize. Also make sure the dictator is one of us low-level people that way he will always feel like he is grounded. The only thing I cannot figure out is to prevent petty squabbles corruption where you use dictatorial powers to gain edge in local feud. I guess the only way to solve this is by hiding the dictators power levels so nobody knows who the dictator is.
>>2689848>and?Are you reddit brained? Where is this supposed "real democracy" that exists? There is no democracy in the west so you should stop using it as an argument for why DPRK is not democratic.
>>2689843Why should parties campaigning for the restoration of the bourgeoisie exist in a socialist society? Who does that benefit and how does that make the lives of proletarians better?
A popular front with a dominant communist party and minority interest groups is a good way to allow some pluralism without letting reactionaries have a say for no reason but "liberal democracy is good because it just is, okay?!"
>>2689855You could have multiple socialist parties competing against each other in elections
>>2689856Or you could just have internal debate in a vanguard party. Still not seeing how a multi-party system is essential beyond some liberal nonsense about a "marketplace of ideas" or how having a dozen variations of the same product under different labels makes for something meaningful.
>>2689858>Or you could just have internal debate in a vanguard party.What the fuck would be the point of that? What guarantee will there be that there will be debate what guarantee will there bee that the debate is over topics the proletariat care about what guarantee is their the conclusion they reach will be in proleteriats best interest what guarantee will there be that the conclusion will be what the proleteriat wants?
>multi-party systemI see no harm in it either.
>>2689865>What guarantee will there beProletarian participation in the system. Not circling a differently colored box every 4 years
>>2689838>Look at all those unelected politicians.Those are voting delegates you retard.
>>2689865>What the fuck would be the point of that?Successful socialist construction.
These things are a means to an ends. To liberals democracy is simply a show to no ends.
>>2689871>Proletarian participation in the systemHow?
>>2689876>Successful socialist construction.And why could that not be achieved with a multi-socialist party system?
>>26898728th Party Congress had 5,000 delegates BTW.
>>2689878>And why could that not be achieved with a multi-socialist party system?Why change what is working? What is the material reasons for doing so?
>>2689877You have workplace organizations that are politically active and have the power to elect and recall deputies. Despite your biased liberal view of Stalinist USSR, that actually functioned pretty well there and it had more deputies on all levels recalled annually by the demand of soviets than any liberal-democratic country.
>And why could that not be achieved with a multi-socialist party system?It could be. I'm personally not saying that a multi-party system (as long as reactionaries are excluded) is inherently bad, I just believe it's pretty immaterial and the organization of the parliament is way down in the list of priorities concerning socialist counstruction.
>>2689883Must be an easy job becayse the drpk only allows one candidate to be on the ballet.
>>2689858You'll still have major political disagreements in a socialist society. And if you don't let representatives sort out their differences legitimately and above ground they will kill each other as many socialist states proved. It's about conflict mediation and ensuring political representation
>>2689884>Why change what is working?Hows it working? What is the purpose of even having elections if you dont allow the voters to even have a choice.
>>2689888You can't negotiate out of fundamental political disagreements.
Liberal democracies kill people over irreconcilable political disagreements all the time.
There is no middleground compromise in a class war
>>2689770The point isn't the competence of the individual but to stop careerists Machiavellians trying to climb the political ladder
>>2689892Guess you dont mind if i kill you then.
>What do you think of communo-monarchism?
Theoretically possible in theory. Not politically desirable.
>>2689895It is what it is.
Millions of proletarians are being killed by capitalism already, why clutch pearls over political violence?
>>2689885>You have workplace organizations that are politically active and have the power to elect and recall deputies.Yeah they have to power to elect not the power to choose who they want to elect making the afromentioned power pointless.
> levels recalled annually by the demand of soviets than any liberal-democratic country.Like who? I'll guarantee all these recalled deputies were all had powerful political enemies.
And almost never because their voterbase.
>I just believe it's pretty immaterial and the organization of the parliament is way down in the list of priorities concerning socialist counstruction.Yeah true honestly why even organize a parliament in the first place? And why care if people to take a shit in the middle-of the street aswell given that its not important priority to building socialism.
>>2689906>Millions of proletarians are being killed by capitalism already,True and communist states should seek to replicate it by killing other communists over disagreements and then killing proleterians aswell if they disagree aswell.
>>2689850
and indeed, they were not in ukraine but in kursk
>>2689908Duplicitous or mistaken friends are more dangerous than honest enemies.
You have burgeois moralism.
>>2689889>Hows it working? How is it not?
>>2689923Beacause the whole point of democracy is to provide a legitimate mechanism for collective self-governance, ensuring that power remains accountable to the people.
If you're not trying to achieve that then what even is the point of your democracy?
>>2689922>burgeois moralismWell whatever it is im glad i'm not sociopath like you.
>>2689929Sorry, it's not really bourgeois moralism, it's what the bourgeoisie teach to their cattle, they themselves have no such reservations, they play to win
>>2689926>If you're not trying to achieve that then what even is the point of your democracy?Lmao. Idealist trash. You have not a single care for what is built.
>>2689947Dont worry I wont have any either when i kill you.
>>2689952Ofcourse its idealist. All ideologies are
But again explain what the point of your fake democracy if you dont even bother to try to make it actually democratic.
>>2689957Freedom is insight into necessity
>>2689957Communism isn't an ideology you absolute fucking retard
>>2689734Basically. Kind of like that one grandson of Mao who's a PLA general despite doing nothing, the family name alone gives him a massive advantage in prestige.
>>2689962Liberals and marxists have fundamentally different and incompatible concepts of freedom, explaining which would entail a marxism 101 lecture.
Basically, freedom is not about vooting or having your individual will represented, it's about the concrete freedom to understand and affect the world through reason (theory) and tools (owning the means of production). Someone who is free not to be bombed by the US because they have nukes has concrete freedom, someone who gets to voote and get "represented" is only free abstractly.
>>26897471. This doesn't change the fact that Trump has more unrestrained power than Kim does, which he is demonstrating to the fullest by swinging his dick around everywhere with nobody in the American government able to stop him despite the supposed "checks and balances".
2. 35% of America didn't even vote
3. The better-funded candidate almost always wins so it's pretty clear that "the American people" are stupid af and just vote for whoever can fund more ads and media campaigns.
>>2689975Okay i understand.
But that still doesnt answer the question as to what the point of the fake democracy even is.
>>2689977One party system does not mean no party autocracy. People cannot vote in a different party - the ideology and central directive towards socialism always remains the same. However, they still have influence over the system through electing local officials who form the lowest level of government(some of whom will climb to the top)
>>2689977The purpose of the process is not to generate democracy through some participatory mechanism, it's to administer the state.
The reason you don't need more than one party is because decisions can be made among party members through reason and scientific analysis to come to a correct decision, not by having a quasi darwinistic "marketplace of ideas" where parties with ossified, static political opinions compete for power.
Think about what a party even is. It's an organ for representing the interests of a certain class. The purpose of a socialist state is to rationally plan the economy for the benefit of the working class, not to be a political arena for which class "wins" its representation and gets to be at the wheel
>>2689980>However, they still have influence over the system through electing local They do technically elect them yes, but the officials they are allowed to elect are handpicked by the party and again theres only possible candidate on the ballot aswell
So really they dont have say in anything.
>>2689993Are you saying the party handpicks every little candidate for every little town or village?
>>2689997Yes that is literally how it works in all communist countries.
>>2689989Again how does this process help govern the state?
Having farce elections where the choice has already been made for the voters and the voters dont have a choice who to vote for.
>>2690004Damn that's a lot of micromanagement
>>2690004No, the central party does not in fact vet and screen and handpick every little candidate lol. Are you referring to how the people running must(obviously) be a party member?
>>2690012Could you name some examples of this? Cause in the electoral systems of the ussr china vietnam and north korea the candidates for even mayoral and provincial offices are all chosen by the communist party officials.
>>2690010Not really its not like xi jinping himslef is personally choosing the mayoral canidate of bumfuckgongzhinxong town.
>>2690034The local CCP party comitee for a city, town or province reccomends a candidate to the ccp organizational department who then approves or rejects them.
>>2690049How many mbers does this "ccp" have?
>>2690052I dont know? Google it
>>2690021revolutionary gay sex cults
>>2690060I already know the answer
>>2689548I'm glad someone is bringing this up because im working on a fantasy alt history world and a government like this comes about at the end of the story so i wanna know what would happen after
>>2690049What's the problem with such decisions being made by people who have had actual political training and been vetted?
>>2690078Nothing i guess though its not democratic at all and the elections are really nothing more than a farce
The proles also get no say but hey who the fuck cares about them lol.
>>2690081Can you explain why is voting democratic?
>>2690081I don't want my country to be run by unqualified retards, and most chinese agree, gherefore it's democratic.
And you can just join the party if you want such rexponsibilities, 6% of the entire chinese population is in the party.
Next you're going to say each individual not having a say about where manholes are installed in the streets is undemocratic. There's people whose job it is to make such decisions
>>2690081glow!! glow! I can see the glow radiating from you!
>>2689742Kim Jong Un is the head of state.
Let's just look at the DPRK State Constitution first:
Notable articles–
The Preamble: Kim Il Sung the Founding Father
Workers' Party Dictatorship of the ProletariatArticle 4: Sovereignty is in the workers (Worker's Party)
Article 5: Democratic Centralism
Article 11 & Article 12 (asserting worker's party leadership)
Ideological conformityArticle 81-82: Ideological / Political conformity.
The Supreme People's Assembly sovereignty assertedArticle 87: SPA (Supreme People's Assembly is the highest organ of State power.
Article 88: Legislative power is exercised by SPA; Standing Committee of SPA
may also exercise when not in session.
Article 90: SPA is elected for a term of 5 years;
Article 91 for Supreme People's Assembly:
- 1. Amend or supplement the Constitution
- 2. Adopt, amend, or supplement laws
- 3. Approve the major laws by Standing Committee when not in session.
- 4. Establish the basic principles of the State's domestic / foreign policies.
- 5. Elect or recall the President of the State Affairs Commission (The Leader)
- 6. Elect or recall the Chairman of the Standing Committee of the SPA.
- 7. Elect or recall the Vice President & members of the State Affairs Commission
On the recommendation of the President of the State Affairs Commission (The Leader)
- 8. Elect or recall the Vice-chairman, Secretary General, & members of the
Standing Committee of the SPA.
- 9. Elect or recall the Premier of the Cabinet.
- 10. Appoint Vice-Premiers, Chairmen, Ministers, & other members of Cabinet on
Recommendation of the Premier of the Cabinet
- 11. Appoint or remove the Prosecutor General of the Central Public Prosecutors Office.
12. Elect or recall the President of the Central Court
13. Eeect or recall the Chairmen, Vice-Chairmen, * members of the Committees of the Supreme People's Assembly
14. Deliberate & approve the State plan for the development of the national economy
15. deliberate & approve the State budget & the report on its implementing
16. Hear a report on the work of the Cabinet & the central bodies.
17. Decide on ratification & nullification of treaties suggested to the SPA.
Article 95: Items to be considered at the SPA are submitted by:
- The President of the State Affairs Commission (Leader)
- State Affairs Commission
- Standing Committee of the SPA
- The Cabinet & Committees of the SPA
- Also by the deputies
The Leader articlesArticle 100. The President of the State Affairs Commission is the Leader & represents the State. (Head of State)
Article 101: The Leader is elected at the SPA according to the unanimous will
of all Korean people.
Article 102: Supreme Leader's term of office is the same as SPA.
(The term of office of SPA & Supreme Leader are together; 5 years).
Article 103: The Leader is commander-in-chief & directs armed forces.
Article 104: The Leader has authority to–
- 1. Direct the overall affairs of the State
- 2. Personally guide the work of the State Affairs Commission
- 3. Make public the laws & ordinance of the SPA & the major decrees / decisions
of the State Affairs Commission
- 4. Appoint or remove key cadres of the State
5. Appoint or recall diplomatic representatives in other countries.
6. Ratify or rescind major treaties w/ other countries.
7. Exercise the right of granting special pardon.
8. Proclaim state of emergency, state of war & mobilization.
9. Organize & direct the National Defence Committee in war-time.
…
Article 105: (or sometimes Article 104?) Supreme Leader issues orders.
Article 106: The Supreme Leader is accountable to the SPA.
(Supreme People's Assembly).
State Affairs Commission (headed by the leader)Article 107: The State Affairs Commission is the Supreme Policy-oriented leadership body
Of State power.
Article 109: The term of the State Affairs is the same as that of the SPA.
(SPA / Supreme People's Assembly).
Article 110: State Affairs Commission has the duties & authority to:
- 1. Discuss & decide important policies of the State
- 2. Exercise supervision over the fulfilment of orders of the Supreme Leader
- 3. Abrogate decisions & directives of State organs which run counter to
the orders of the Supreme Leader & the State Affairs Commission.
- 4. Appoint or remove Vice-premiers, chairmen, ministers, & other members of the Cabinet
on the recommendation of the Preimer of the Cabinet WHEN the SPA is not in session.
Article 111. State Affairs Commission issues decrees, decisions, & directives.
Article 112. State Affairs Commission is accountable to the SPA (Supreme People's Assembly).
Notable powers in the Leader?- Make laws?:(SPA has that power as the supreme sovereign body, although Leader can submit items for discussion to SPA & discuss/decide important policies in the State Affairs Commission); "3. Make public the laws & ordinance of the SPA & the major decrees / decisions of the State Affairs Commission"
-Declare war/peace?: - Can ratify or rescind major treaties w/ other countries – / Proclaim state of emergency, state of war & mobilization. / Perhaps has control of nuclear weapons?
-Appoint magistates/state officials?: -4. Appoint or remove key cadres of the State / members of State Affairs Commission, etc
Give pardons: - 7. Exercise the right of granting special pardon.
Then there's democratic centralism: once party doctrine is decided, all party members are obliged to follow–and DPRK basically is a one-party state, the majority of the SPA are party members and obliged to follow party doctrine, so in a way there are mechanisms of the Party ideology itself behind the DPRK State Constitution as extra layers.
It is debatable how much influence Kim Jong Un really has or if he is just like the King of Britain in being a figurehead mostly.
>>2690100Marxism values correctness over sentiment, it's not called "scientific socialism" for nothing.
Alien concept to a liberal, I know.
>>2690106Then why does the correct assertation that china is undemocratic bother you?
Unlike the people here the CCP themselves are under no illusion that the reason they're in power is trough a popular mandate and not the fact they have an iron grip on and control all forms of political power, wealth and media in the country along with the military.
<picrelWaow, thanks evil AI machine (BasedBasedBasedBased).
>>2690094>he is just like the King of Britain in being a figurehead mostlyking is a large scale slum landlord so i'd say Big Kim has less power.
>>2690109It's dialectical.
Also, liberals don't have a monopoly on the concept of "democracy".
Socialism is a dictatorship of the proletariat with some democratic mechanisms for the ruling class (proles in this case)
Just like capitalism isa dictatorship of the bourgeoisie with some democratic mechanisms for the ruling class (capitalists & donors)
They serve different purposes thrrefore don't have to be the same.
It's not like in capitalist countries you can just elect a communist government by popular will, so why the hypocrisy?
>>2690110Juche is just by the book marxism-leninism with some bombastic stylistic flourishes, dunno why self professed marxists doubt this at all, they could just read it directly and see for themselves.
>>2689834Wrong. Proletarian dictatorship is comprised of descendants of Revolution elected by proletarian democracy, not birthright. There is no legal birthright in Communist Korea. Communist meritocracy is not monarchy
Article 76.
Revolutionary fighters, the families of revolutionary and patriotic martyrs, the families of soldiers of the People’s Army and soldiers disabled on duty enjoy the special protection of the State and society.
>>2690056That is actually retarded logic. Britain other "people" are capitalists who run the show
>>2690129
Working for them so far. They don't have to worry about getting bombed by the democratic west, pager-bombed by the west's genocidal colony, and having their country turned into a whorehouse managed by descendants of repressed fascists.
>>2690110>king is a large scale slum landlord so i'd say Big Kim has less power.By convention, King receives 'advice' (it isn't really advice, they sort of have to follow the advice).
The royalty haven't been so powerful much after 1688.
>>2690146what does that gotta do with slum landlording?
Also ignoring extensive political advocacy and so on, btw
Fundamentally disingenuous.
>>2690166Counting "unaccounted" assets for thee, but not for mee
>>2689706yeah nah yi ruled joseon for 500 years and would be ruling to this very day had japanese not make them abdicate
north korea is the same hermit kingdom so things will be the same
>>2690166This is like that youtube video that said Stalin was the richest man ever because he "owned" the entire soviet union
>>2690166The royals have teams of people who create shell companies nonstop and move money through accounts for them. There's no way we really know the full extent of their fortune.
>>2689747We share a board with people who actually unironically think such childish nonsense as "the american people voted trump into power" lmfao.
It's bleak out here man
>>2690333when the fuck did i bomb norks?
anyway:
>hereditary rule>isolationist>chinese client>position in life measured can be measures in distance to royal palace<not joseon 2.0, you evil imperialist Amerikkkan subhumans have no right to speak. They will bully, rape and murder with impunity and then dare to criticise their victims.
>>2690410Dumb motherfucker.
This is your brain on NK News.
Not even once, anons.
Alunya and Grace are somewhere drinking together in a big party
>>2690412You wont do shit.
>>2690410>>position in life measured can be measures in distance to royal palaceLegitimately retarded, show me one other geography with a communist party in control that has done more to bridge the gap between town and country than the DPRK?
>>2689763>Whatever helps you cope with the fact nobody likes you guys irl.nobody in the nation of pedophiles and imperialists, maybe
>>2689763>Whatever helps you cope with the fact nobody likes you guys irl.it's not a popularity contest. your ruling class says economic planning is impossible while wasting all the remaining natural resources on AI centers and turning most of your wheat into shit like cheezits and most of your potatoes into greasy potato chips and most of your corn into salty corn chips and most of your beef into oily hamburgers. They want you to be fat, horny, have a heart attack at 50, and ask no questions about the child slaves who mine the minerals in your computer. They have created a world order which is popular, but unsustainable. Smart people understand that what is sustainable isn't always what's popular. Under communism, everyone must work, but they live healthier and more fulfilling lives contributing to society. Remove parasitism from society and so much more becomes possible. But of course this is "unpopular" with the parasites and the people who aspire to be them.
>"The Leader is, indeed, the infinitely benevolent father of our people and our children. We must give schoolchildren a clear understanding that their happiness is entirely due to the Leader's love for them and his consideration for them. Only then will the children remember the Leader's benevolence, support him from the bottom of their hearts and become revolutionary fighters who are unfailingly faithful to him, when they are adults."
- Kim Jong Il
>"Our Leader is the supreme revolutionary genius, the Sun of the nation and the benevolent father of our People, who has built a socialist paradise on this land and brought the People the happiness and glory we see today, by leading the arduous Korean revolution along the path of trials to victory without the slightest vacillation. Because of the immortal feats he has performed for mankind, his extraordinary intelligence, outstanding leadership ability and lofty communist virtues, the Leader is supported and boundlessly revered by the People. Our People eagerly desire to meet their fatherly Leader who, by devoting his entire life to the freedom and liberation of the People and leading the vanguard of the revolution and socialist construction, has provide them with the greatest happiness and continues to provide the condition for their lives to flourish, and once they have met him, they brim over with the resolution to give their wholehearted loyalty to the Leader, and are engrossed in infinitely solemn feelings and emotions."
- Kim Jong Il
the DPRK is a consitutional social monarchy that about as democratic as the UK is, I honestly don't see why both liberals and communists have such strong feelings about a fairly normal and mundane country when you look past the nearly century long seige laid upon it. Pretty much any country would do the same in similar cicrumstances.
>>2692177>about a fairly normal and mundane country when you look past the nearly century long seige laid upon itAnon you don't have to like it but peoples Korea is a revolutionary project. Hardly mundane.
>>2689548This is unacceptable.
Princess Yo-Jong is and always will be the one true leader of the Korean Proletariat and also my heart.
>>2689548There's no real proof yet that "Ju Ae" (her real name is unknown and the only source is Dennis Rodman) is the new successor and it is too early for that. Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il were both old as fuck when they designated their successors. It's possible that the real successor hasn't even been born yet. "Ju Ae" 's public appearances alongside Kim Jong Un are for now just a way to promote Kim Jong Un's image as a "friendly father" of the people.
>>2689747>Can't say the same for north korea.Correct, North Koreans did not in fact vote for Donald Trump
>What do you think of communo-monarchism?
It's gonna be so funny when the ISS gets de-orbited, replaced with 30 different private run "space hotels" for billionaires to fuck in space and meanwhile, the DPRK joins China and Russia on the Thorium powered SotA moon base.
>>2692119I assume Kim Jong Il isn't speaking of himself, but of Kim Il Sung?
>>2690410>when the fuck did i bomb norks?Literally every city in the DPRK was destroyed in the 1950s, along with their electrical grid, sewage and sanitation infrastructure, hospitals, schools, libraries, etc. The US also used germ warfare on them. they had to rebuild EVERYTHING from scratch after the Korean war, while also being sanctioned by the US. Naturally they developed a very peculiar culture as a result of the collective PTSD of that era, and the forced isolation that they had to rebuild under. Now the very same people who killed 20% of their population lies through their teeth about them on the news every day, and their nuclear weapons, which Americans are taught to fear, are the only thing keeping them from having their nation violated in such a way again.
>>2690410>chinese clientthey are far closer to Russia these days
>>2692277Yeah i dont remember doing any of this.
>>2690410>isolationistNot by choice, it's just that the entire "free world" refuses to associate with them, and the neutral powers follow along because there's not much to be gained by trade with North Korea that's worth the risk of their own sanctions. However, the DPRK has open flow of goods and people with Russia and China, who both don't care to sanction it for ideological reasons and are large and powerful enough that nobody can do anything about their association with the DPRK.
>>2692376So? It happened in the recent past.
>>2690166Dude, this is like people who say Putin has a net worth of 30 gorillion because he owns all of Russia
>>2690166there's no way this 1.8 billion figure is the true wealth of the Crown.
this is just a rought estimate because their money is often in secret accounts we dont know about. but if we say:
Identifiable Private Wealth~£2.3 Billion
Sovereign Assets Under Control~£35 Billion
Intangible Brand/Monarchy Value~£60 Billion
Estimated "Invisible" Offshore Pool~£5 - £10 Billion
GRAND TOTAL ESTIMATE~£100 Billion+ ($125bn)
adding all this together gives a more plausible figure
>>2690109>undemocratic proletarian democracy is a million times more democratic than bourgeois democracy which is based only upon which political stooge of the capitalist class has the most campaign funding to brainwash the masses through an MSM advertising campaign in the months leading up to election day. Not to mention the "primaries" where you get to "choose" between 15 more or less equally reactionary ghouls who only vary slightly in terms of which particular industries funded their campaign.
>>2692376the point isn't whether YOU did it the point is "Norks" have a valid reason to be hostile to the "international rules based order" of liberalism. you're playing dumb and wasting our effort.
>>2692577>proletarian democracyChina doesnt have that.
The proleteriat have no say in who leads them.
>>2690142that's just called being smart and adapting marxism leninism to local conditions. something marxism leninism is supposed to do.
>>2693211the statement was about proletarian democracy in general, not necessarily intended as a conclusion about whether china or north korea or anyone else actually has proletarian democracy. but either way, bourgeois democracy is a sham, and a humbug. democracy for the owners.
>>2693225I just read it and nowhere does it day how the proleteriat has a say in chinese politics and how the representatives to represent the proleterians are chosen.
You know why?
Because the proles in china dont have say.
There is only ever one choice on the ballot for the proles to "choose" from and who that is prechosen by members of the ccp who again the proles had no say in choosing to put in power.
>>2693227>bourgeois democracy is a shamAnd chinese democracy isnt even a democracy
>>2693232>trusting wikipedia on anything political>trusting wikipedia on enemies of the westyou're retarded. also the simple fact chineses can recall the elected make them a lot more democratic than the westoid regimes
>>2693232It says they have more than one choice on the ballot
>>2693243lack of a formal alliance doesn't mean enmity
>>2693247truly the incredible depth of the stupidity of the antichina posters is the best propaganda for china
>>2693240Why is a communist country benefiting from and obtaining the spoils of imperialist exploitation?
>>2689548Meanwhile bourgeois corporations on /pol/ are fighting for the removal of the justice and legal protections of workers and protestors, but also on their own platforms.
Their division attempts to distract protestors and to bring the justice system down on protestors have succeeded in western countries.
They do indeed intend to keep immigrants working very hard but for a lower wage.
>>2693249complaining about nato partnership countries having military bases in their own countries is zigger-tier retardation, let's not denigrate ourselves to that level
>>2693243Trade does imply mutual interests at the very least. It binds countries together by common benefit, and depending on its nature, it can create long-term economic dependence due to a given country orienting its economic base towards continuing that trade in a stable way. (As evidenced by China creating a shit ton of industry to produce what the consumer economies demand) To me it doesn't seem very materialist to dismiss the actually existing economic relationship between China and the US in favor of what the states say about each other. Acknowledging this isn't pro or anti China.
Kim Jong Un is an example of why Grace is correct somewhat. As long as the monarch isn't an asshole about it and they focus on building the productive forces to achieve socialism, it's fair game.
Reason monarchs are usually bad is they tend to be reactionary, wanting a feudalist mode of production. Other than that it don't matter as long as they interact with and respond to feedback from their community regularly, which Kim seems to be doing.
>>2689637>>2693266>Kim Jong Un is an example of why Grace is correct somewhat. As long as the monarch isn't an asshole about it and they focus on building the productive forces to achieve socialism, it's fair game.see
>>2689784 >>2693262do you really think the expansionist anticommunist protection racket called NATO is consensual?
>ziggerOh, that gives the whole game away. anyone who says that shit is not only an anticommunist reactoinary, they imagine that opposing NATO expansion means uncritically supporting Russia.
>>2693982that's why her absolutism is retarded especially since she can't let go of blood inheritance,which would at least ensure you can properly groom your successor somewhat (but then at this point,why bother ?)
Finally, a female dictator
>>2689548Its a reactionary class society. Even feudalism is more progressive.
>>2694008those are shit analogies because prc is it's own country with it's own elites and it's own power dynamics
>>2694046a process for exiting nato has been in the charter from the very beginning, anyone that doesn't want to be a part of the alliance can leave at their leasure
once again you're changing subject and pretend to see issues where there are none
>>2694238>Even feudalism is more progressive.This is actually dumb if you believe the DPRK is a slave society.
>third worldists defending literal monarchy so long as the king claims he's communist
Every time. You're just anti-American contrarians, you don't believe in emancipating the proles or you could never defend the DPRK.
>>2694420>third worldists defending literal monarchyIt literally isn't and of course you blame it on anti-Americanism
>>2694420Why don't you ask the proles of the DPRK.
But let me guess they're "brainwashed" and can't be reasoned with, therefore they must be "freed" against their will through starvation and open violence, and when they inevitably defend the society they've miraculously built despite western genocidal aggression, youll6 bomb 20 million of them and turn the rest into slaves and prostitutes, thus finally "freeing" them (from the mortal coil)
>>2694549>The proles of the DPRK are being housed in the 10's of thousands BTW. :) But at what cost!?
North Korea doesn’t exist, it’s a bunch of actors pretending to be an alternative to the system to justify military budgets
>>2694535How do you know what the proles of the DPRK think?
>>2694630There are no proles there because the DPRK doesn’t exist
why does anyone even bother with this website, idk if it is all liberals parroting CIA talking points earnestly or if it is trolls posting the stupidest shit possible to create drama.
idc about north korea being 'real communism' or not. USA bombs will not improve their situation, embargoes will not make them into a trotskyist utopia.
no one is arguing we should adopt the ideology, tactics, or methods of organization of the DPRK. at most, some leftist tendencies will argue for more central organization (in the sense of concentric representative councils), while others advocate for less formal means of organizing. neither approach has achieved communism in the west in the modern technological and sociopolitical situation, surveillance and repression apparatuses of the bourgeois have proven adequate so far.
maybe instead of shitting on a victim of western imperialism, that is posing no threat to anyone except the even more corrupt and dystopic south korean government, you could try actually building your own leftist organization.
>>2694672>>2694666Or you can stop posting fictional characters
>>2694679Because fiction writers are talented creatives
>>2694672would you accept random interviews as proof of what western proles are thinking?
>>2694730Yes, they're quite clear about the fact that they 100% support their empire's genocidal child murder and rape activities as long as they get rent freezes
>>2694535Um, yes? Look at the masses in Trump's America. Many of them are either sheep who don't think at all, or support him because of propaganda they keep being fed and never question. You should not assume North Koreans are any different.
>>2694855So the answer is to kill all first worlders
>>2694855If propaganda didn't work, no one would bother with it.
So no, I'm not gonna listen to people currently living in North Korea who know nothing but the Kim Dynasty and their self-promoting propaganda ecosystem, who even if they are dissidents cannot dare speak against them on pain of death, on whether North Korea is good or actually socialist or not. Absolutely not. I will judge that myself.
>>2694875>westoid treatlerite kkkrakkka refuses to readStory as old as treatlerites themselves
>>2694878>>2694879>just listen to the Kim propaganda slop and believe it you fucking westoidEastoids gonna east
>>2694881Genuine nitwits these people, like they recognized western news is full of propaganda, but instead of not letting it dictate the narrative they just turn it on its head and decide that actually exact opposite is the truth.
>>2694898Name 1 example of western propaganda about socialism where the exact opposite isn't the truth
>>2694902One party states being inevitably despotic. Much as socialists may want to retain ideological purity, that purity test inevitably attracts megalomaniacs and psychopaths to your movement who then schmooze their way into positions of power and use it to enrich themselves rather than actually carrying out a transition to communism or whatever. Without direct electoral accountability to the public you will never have a well functioning socialist state because there is no incentive structure to force those in power to actually act as such.
>>2694902You know the old easter european joke "everything they told us about communism was a lie, everything they told us about capitalism was truth"?
Anyway, to answer your question, propaganda is almost always based on truth to various degrees, because only idiots fall for blatant falsehoods.
>>2694917What the fuck happened after 1985 you genius?
>>2694906>direct electoral accountability wouldn't those movements just get co-opted by part of the ruling class anyway ? just like mass media
>>2694923Sure, but simply due to the number of people involved its less likely, making it a much safer hedge against that than relying on the party elites to police themselves.
Delegates to the 9th Congress of the Workers' Party of Korea arrive in Pyongyang, the capital of the revolution.
The time is approaching for the 9th Congress of the Workers' Party of Korea, a major political event in the history of our Party and the nation, to be held amidst the great expectations and interest of all Party members and the people of the entire country .
The preparations for the 9th Congress of the Party, which will be an important milestone in the history of our Party's leadership, which has built a dignified and powerful people's country with self-respect and self-sufficiency by remaining faithful to the socialist ideology and cause for 80 years and wisely leads the revolution and construction of the new era for the all-round development of the country and the promotion of the people's welfare, have been completed, and all the Party representatives who will play an active role in the vanguard of the sacred new administration have departed for the Congress hall.
Delegates and observers attending the 9th Congress of the Workers' Party of Korea arrived in Pyongyang, the capital of the revolution, on February 16 , bearing the boundless respect of all Party members, people, and soldiers of the People's Army for our great Party, the organizer and guide of all victories of the Korean people, and the noble achievements made in implementing Party policies.
The participants in the conference were warmly welcomed by the secretaries of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea , Comrades Ri Hi-yong, Kim Tok-hun, and Choi Dong-myong, as well as other Party Central Committee officials.
The citizens of Pyongyang warmly welcomed on the streets the honorable representatives who played a leading role in the implementation of the line and policies of the 8th Central Committee of the Party, which aimed at achieving new victories and advancing to a higher level of the cause of socialism in our own style, and who embodied the trust of all Party members in the Central Committee of the Party and the passion of our people for their country.
The delegates are fully aware of the people's trust and expectations, and the sacred mission and important task entrusted to them by the Party organization, and are filled with enthusiasm to responsibly participate in the work of the Party's highest leadership organ. (End)
>>2694957>but simply due to the number of people involved its less likelyWhat are you talking about it is an even smaller elite involved in maintaining it for liberal democracies
>>2695049I mean that there's vastly more people available to police elite behaviour due to the electoral check, people from outside their class. Elites having to police other elites never fixes anything.
>>2695458>I mean that there's vastly more people available to police elite behaviour due to the electoral check, people from outside their class. You cannot possibly believe this?
>>2695651There is no alternative besides elites policing elites, which doesn't work.
>>2696581So you're saying if epstein was king of america he wouldn't have raped random poor children?
If trump as king he wouldnt6 have raped trafficked eastern european girls?
Isn't the whole saudi cort rapists? They're not raping each other that's for sure
Sons are more reliable than not–and if they aren't, then just choose a more loyal son.
Son upholds his father's legacy.
>>2696585No, I'm saying even bad monarchs usually aren't that bad.
>>2696581>>2696581>So when someone like Nero or Caligula is ruling, only certain people are in danger of suffering unjustly—namely, those he personally knows, such as courtiers or people holding high office. And even among them, only those who possess something he wants are at risk. Those who insult him or openly offend him are punished with reason. Therefore, in a monarchy, anyone who chooses to live quietly and stay out of ambition is safe, no matter who the ruler is. It is only the ambitious who suffer; everyone else is protected from the violence of the powerful.Hobbes is completely wrong here, and laughably so
Monarchs regularly prove to be sadistic and abusive freaks even to random lowborn people outside of court, and frequently common men are drafted to fight and die for their monarch without warning or chance to flee. Get real.
>>2696593Communist regimes have a bigger track record of fucking with random, lowborn people on democratic pretext which includes the masses.
Their incentive is to rock the boat.
Even a sadistic royal probably has a lower kill count.
>>2696605Kek, did you make that image because I never seen it on the Booru?
>>2696610yeah i made it like 2 or 3 OC threads ago
The defense of Juche in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea must proceed from a rigorous application of historical materialism, tempered by the recognition that Marxist theory itself is not an eternal, ahistorical dogma but a living science whose concrete manifestations are dialectically conditioned by the specific contradictions of time, place, and class struggle. Even amid the most unrelenting bourgeois propaganda, we must affirm that Juche represents not a departure from Marxism but its creative, anti-dogmatic adaptation to the semi-feudal, semicolonial realities inherited by the Korean revolution and war.
Historical materialism teaches us that the superstructure arises from and reacts upon the economic, yet the precise forms of ideological and political struggle are relative to the stage of development and the balance of class forces in said region or time. The universal laws of class struggle, as discovered by Marx and Engels and further developed by Lenin and Mao Zedong to name just a few, do not prescribe mechanical schemas to be imposed uniformly across all nations; rather, they demand the concrete analysis of concrete conditions. In the Korean context the protracted national liberation struggle against Japanese colonialism, followed by the genocidal imperialist aggression of 1950 and 1953 and the subsequent encirclement by U.S. imperialism and its South Korean puppet regime, produced a material reality in which the masses' mastery over their own destiny, Chajusong, emerged as the decisive subjective factor. Juche elevates the role of the popular masses as the makers of history, echoing Mao's insistence on the primacy of people over weapons and the mass line as the method of revolutionary leadership. Far from idealistic monarchy, this emphasis on conscious human agency is thoroughly materialist and socialist, and it arises from the objective necessity of breaking the chains of dependency imposed by centuries of foreign domination and the uneven development of the productive forces in a small, war-ravaged country.
From my perspective which synthesizes Mao's mass-line practice and critique of bureaucratic commandism with the anarchist aspiration toward stateless communism and the immediate abolition of hierarchical domination, Juche's insistence on independence in politics (jaju), self-sustenance in the economy (jarip), and self-reliance in national defense (jawi) constitutes a revolutionary negation of both revisionist capitulation to Soviet social-imperialism and capitalist restorationist tendencies. The Korean path rejected the technocratic model of "peaceful coexistence" peddled by Khrushchevite revisionism, which subordinated Third World revolutions to great-power diplomacy, and instead upheld the Maoist principle that the masses must rely on their own strength to transform material conditions. In this sense, Juche prefigures the withering away of the state…not through abstract utopian declarations, but through the concrete forging of a self-reliant socialist base capable of resisting imperialist subversion and internal bureaucratization. The monolithic ideological system is often caricatured as authoritarian but it must be understood dialectically; in a world besieged by hostile encirclement, the ideological mobilization of the entire people against class enemies and revisionist degeneration serves as a material force preventing the ossification of a new exploiting stratum developing.
Critics who dismiss Juche as nationalist monarchy divorced from class struggle fail to grasp the historical relativism inherent in materialist dialectics. What appears as "nationalism" in one conjuncture is the necessary form of proletarian international survival in another. Just as Mao Zedong Thought adapted Marxism-Leninism to China's semicolonial conditions by centering the peasant masses and protracted people's war, so Juche adapts it to Korea's unique position as a divided nation on the front line of U.S. imperialist puppetry in asia. The defense of sovereignty and self-determination is not bourgeois chauvinism but the precondition for the international liberation of the working class. Without it, the Korean proletariat would remain subordinated to foreign capital and revisionist patronage. In upholding Juche, the DPRK has preserved the revolutionary kernel of Marxism against both imperialist aggression and opportunist liquidation, demonstrating that true communism advances not through dogmatic imitation but through the creative initiative of the oppressed in their specific historical circumstances.
Thus, in the revolutionary tradition, Juche stands as a beacon of mass self-emancipation; an affirmation that the Korean people, by mastering their own fate, contribute to the global defeat of imperialism and the ultimate realization of a classless, stateless internationalist society.
>>2695680Again, how does liberal democracy "check" the elite?
>>2696788Obviously by subjecting them to popular approval to have political power. Again, I know what you're gonna argue but you can stuff it. There is no universe where relying on elites to police themselves leads to better outcomes.
>>2696690>the stories aren't true, DON'T believe them>capitalist, westoid propaganda!Tick tock, /leftypol/.Someday the Far Left will be another anachronism like with my Royal Colony threads, and /leftypol/ users will look fringe like me.
I hope the DPRK is the last regime standing and with a long lineage of heirs related to Kim Il Sung, so I can laugh at you.
>>2697026>>2696633come on dude
we can kiss but only if you behave
>>2697026Go hang out on /his/ if you love monarchy so much. Leftists are and always have been totally anti-monarchy. Off with their heads, and yours too.
>>2697248Complete monarchist cope. You can dress it up all you want, you want a king, and kings need to die, period.
>>2697251Pure idealism not willing or able to view material realities of situations. The DPRK achieved anti-colonial independence, the national existence that is prerequisite to any socialist construction; industrial development under conditions of siege that demonstrates the planning principle's viability; the persistence of state ownership and collective agriculture against constant foreign imperialist pressure. These are material facts, determinations by the base that moral dismissal cannot dissolve. The achievement and the failures of North Korean's juche are dialectically interconnected, products of specific contradictions between forces and relations of production under specific historical conditions. The Jacobin anarchist like you can hold neither; your position requires moral clarity before concrete analysis, superstructural judgment before base investigation.
I don't think America's material conditions fit the juche idealogy. One shoe does not fit all.
>>2697291I don't care what your excuse is, it's not socialist, it's despotism and it need to be destroyed. Period. I'm not arguing this.
>>2697307>>im not arguing thisI know, because idealists don't argue or analyze they repeat utopian slogans, and appeal to idealism and moralism rather than material reality.
>>2697307I dont care who you are, you're retarded and your destruction would be preferable. Period. Im not arguing this.
>>2697321>>2697334If despotism is the only realistic form of human governance then humanity should be destroyed
>>2697403this maymay only applies to shitholes like 4chan where it effectively functions like social media where you have a thread for practically everyone and everything. meanwhile you are on leftypol on a bait thread
I would only support this system if the philosopher-king were Chagosposter.
I look at North Korea with unrelenting envy.
North Koreans have a better harmony than Western Christian Monarchy.
No annoying catfights between Church and State, no stupid twofold Church/State loyalty between King Jesus and King King.
A cult of personality centered around the Leader and no Christian universalism, no dealing with Christian biblical baddie portrayals of Pharaoh always skulking over, no Greekoid classical tradition that snubs this sort of thing with excessive tirades about ebil tyrants and oriental Persians (which they attach to monarchy).
Everyone gets familialism with the Party and the Leader–no competition between Church familialism (Yes, even Communist internationalism is more nationalist and keen than the universalism/cosmopolitanism of Christianity). –The Western culturally don't comprehend it very well, always entertaining mixed constitutionalism/political pluralism (which Hobbes tried in vain to push away from, but failed, b/c the West can't stop being for multi-party democracy/aristocracy–and if they do comprehend it, it is sapped under Christianity).
They accept the need for the arbiter and no fruitless mental gymnastics about it.
Mt. Paektu bloodline (not Mt. Zion *cough*) and everyone recognizes the preeminence of the Leader and corporatist unity, Leader is central as soul of the Commonwealth and core to their identity… community of pleasures and pains that Plato lauded is secured under the cult of personality of the Leader… unlike Christianity where at best people get the Eucharist and icons to communicate with Christ and clergy–the Leaders bloodline secures the justification of arbiters with less factionalism (which has erupted with Christianity, because while the Leaders can communicate and be arbiters, Christians still wait for Jesus and rely on either the prime ministers (popes) or ministry (orthodox bishops/churches) which are never quite as secure as a direct blood descendent who is living among them (not an icon or eucharist, but a living person in the here & now).
…
…It is great the bond they have going… I hear Christians get detained for trying to sneak in and proselytize the North Koreans and hide Bibles… and that's a good thing–if North Koreans converted to Christianity, it would be paradise lost, and destroy the bond they established.
>>2702529North Korea will be converted to Christianity with the power of the Russian Orthodox Church. Zeethe harder satanist.
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