/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2766877
they are just being contrarian

>>2766878
Then why do they never stop seething, but never inside the threads they seethe about?

>>2766835
hah I knew it the USSR is always good fuck off capitalist shitters

>>2766841
meme revivid. Iran war made these things possible.

>>2766823
israel isn't in NATO

No fear for the door gunner. Straight up took the AK out of the trunk and started blasting
https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/2040145805802106941

>>2766900
Battlefield 7 looking great.

>>2766779
Kek

>>2766890
post it at him on xitter

One more birb down

01:14 GMT
Images posted on social media appear to show a CH-47 transport helicopter destroyed in an Iranian strike on a US base in Kuwait.

Where is baker?

Where is professor Sinbad?

chinletnook BTFO'd

>>2766972
>chinletnook
lol

>pilots rescued or crash landing out of iran
>the helos managed to land and all the crew is ok
why are things so unfair? I want to them go up in flame in a nice explosion and end up half burned alive in detention of the iranian and executed on TV for war crimes

>>2766972
The US has only built about 1200 of those since 1962. It can fit up to 55 infantry in a non-evacuation situation. Who knows how many were in it when it went down.

>>2766972
minor damage. possibly, toilet clogged, one soldier shat, and the whole thing went south.

>>2766719
>>2766793
Not only that, it also shows that "freedom fighters" were smuggling weapons and soldiers through Yugoslavian border with the help of "friendly organizations", probably the British because I don't think that Americans called Yugoslavs friendly

>>2766793
>>2766994
>the JFK declassified documents proved that the CIA helped to organize the hungarian 'freedom fighters'
The "Hungarian Freedom Fighters Federation" is a specific organization, not a catch all term for all insurgents in the 1956 counter revolution or the uprising more generally. It was established in 1957 by veterans of the uprising, and this was done with CIA sponsorship.
https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2naz97/hungarian-freedom-fighters-federation-inc
This is what the documents are referring to. Again, other documents explicitly and in no uncertain terms indicate that there was no CIA involvement in the uprising itself.

>>2767014
It mentioned the routes friendly organizations were smuggling weapons into Hungary. I don't care that it weren't specifically American glowies, they still admitted to helping friends and also mentioned those friends, while censoring out names and what those organizations were called.

You are not getting your "it was an organic grass roots movement" claim with Hungarian fascists, buddy

>>2767019
>You are not getting your "it was an organic grass roots movement" claim with Hungarian fascists, buddy
Even the Soviets considered this to be the case though, they admitted to it in Politburo meetings that the uprising had popular support. If you like you can check out "The Hungarian Revolution: A History in Documents." It has actual minutes from politburo meetings discussing the crisis where this is acknowledged. Interestingly iirc theres only one or two passing references to Western intelligence involvement, so the Soviet government didnt seem to internally be too concerned with it. It's also pretty much impossible to imagine how Rakosi's government could collapse literally overnight without the overwhelming majority of the population being sympathetic. Now don't get me wrong, this was definitely still a counterrevolution ultimately, and the Soviet handling of it was mostly correct. However if you actually dive into the available documentation, eyewitness accounts, etc. the clear picture that emerges is one of total chaos that took everybody involved by surprise. Even the Soviets themselves initially supported Nagy's government because they had no clear idea about what was going on and he was the only actor that appeared even somewhat organized. However I agree with Aptheker's assessment of him as "Kerensky in reverse" in that he continuously made concessions to the right which only emboldened them, leading them to become more dangerous and take more aggressive action. This is why the Soviet intervention was ultimately necessary to preserve socialism in Hungary, but its worth noting that Janos Kadar conceded to many of the demands being made by the insurgents onces he was installed by the Soviet army.

>>2767028
>they admitted to it in Politburo meetings that the uprising had popular support
Oh fuck again with the secret documents that nobody had the faintest clue about until 90s. Yawn.

>>2767028
>Aptheker's assessment of him as "Kerensky in reverse" in that he continuously made concessions to the right which only emboldened them

What the fuck are you implying? Kerensky did concessions to the right constantly, which emboldened them. Concessions to communists didn't exist, Kerensky fought them tooth and nail, but ultimately couldn't win without a straight up military-police operation against them - and that couldn't happen because of a threat of civil war.

>>2767029
Your initial argument was based on secret documents nobody had a clue about until a couple of years ago. Seriously though, I'd highly recommend that book, its loaded with stuff not only from the Soviet archives but declassified CIA and State Department stuff, minutes from Imre Nagy's own cabinet meetings, etc. It's a comprehensive collection so you can read the primary sources and draw your own conclusions.

>>2767030
>What the fuck are you implying?
I'm not implying anything, I'm just using Aptheker's assessment.

>>2767031
>Your initial argument was based on secret documents nobody had a clue about until a couple of years ago

It's not. Soviets said so since forever. "Socialist" Yugoslavia was an enemy, fascist-adjacent or fascist supporter, since it's inception. CIA documents do not contradict anything.

Funny Soviet documents accusing Soviets of hiding DA TRUTH!!1 and lying are always, without a fail, fakes from 90s.

>>2767014
>not a catch all term for all
>Hungarian Freedom Fighters Federation
who were the most violent and active of them, with most people active. name one insurgence group largest that them. name one larger than the 'ciafreedom fighters', do eet.

>>2767039
The Hungarian Freedom Fighters Federation wasn't an insurgent group that was present during the actual fighting. It was formed after the uprising was over by former participants who fled to the West. The uprising itself didn't really have much in the way of organized groups like you seem to be imagining, with names, formal command structures, political programs, etc. It was highly disorganized and fragmented.

>>2766796
They sent in weird al.

>>2767047
>The Hungarian Freedom Fighters Federation wasn't an insurgent group that was present during the actual fighting

see: >>2766797

>>2766796
there's one pilot that hasn't been recovered. I am waiting, but rumors are, the other was found by Iranians.

>>2767057
Yes, the HFFF was composed of veterans of the uprising, however the documents in question make specific reference to CIA sponsorship of the HFFF itself, an organization that wasn't formed until after the uprising was over. They don't make reference to the insurgents in general or any support received before or during the fighting. Ergo the documents do not support the claim that the CIA sponsored the uprising, especially when read in the context of other documents I posted which clearly contradict this claim.

>>2766980
Because this isn't a movie or video game, and they weren't transporting gasoline.

>>2767062
and we circle back: >>2766821

>>2766796
see?

>>2767067
We're not circling back to anything, since I'm not claiming that the Soviet intervention was bad. On the contrary it was 100% necessary and I wholeheartedly support it. However the fact remains that the documents simply don't say what you claim they do. I don't find it at all hard to believe that the CIA could be caught off guard by the uprising and then help organize former participants into a new group afterwards. This is what the available documents taken as a whole actually say, and there's nothing implausible about this.

>>2766987
>Who knows how many were in it when it went down.
Nobody was probably in it. It didn't go down, it had its face blown up by a drone when it was stationary. Nobody is landing that thing in that condition.

>>2767069
the problem is that you want to be a skeptic. I don't want to, and I am not. 1950 already happened, the Korean peninsula already happened. the lies that the US promoted for the invasion had already happened, and was already ready to kill and already killed hundreds of thousands of communists (genocide of the Jeju Island).
so, spare the skepticism to other people around you.

>>2767080
I'm not being a skeptic, I'm just looking at what the evidence actually shows. Normally I'd at least concede that what you're arguing is a reasonable inference from CIA backing of the HFFF. However it's directly contradicted by other declassified documents which show that the CIA had essentially given up on REDCAP/REDSOX operations against Hungary by 1956 and was not at all prepared when the uprising came. Frankly even if there was direct CIA involvement I don't think it makes much of a difference when you actually look closely at the sequence of events. A few thousand students hold a demonstration on October 23, and by the end of the next day Hungary effectively had no government. Such a rapid collapse would be impossible unless the vast majority of the population (including many of the people running key institutions) were opposed to the Rakosi/Gero government. So even if the CIA had a hand in this, we still need to grapple with the issue of how such a tiny push was able to completely overthrow the state so quickly. This leads us inevitably to the question of the severe mismanagement of the country by Rakosi, especially compared to the much more popular and stable rule of Kadar. The only real issue I take with the traditional pro-Soviet framing is not with the intervention (which was necessary), but that it completely papers over the endless list of mistakes and incompetence that made the crisis possible in the first place. Even accounting for Western involvement the central focus of a communist study of 1956 should be self-criticism.

>>2766587
>that's not third worldism, that's the CIA glow op that gets accused of being third worldism
no that is third worldism, -ism means "ideology of"
>>>2766605
>they are the revolutionary subject
its this, short for third world communism, that the third world is the revolutionary subject
>They believe that the peasantry of the world are the poorest of the poor, so therefore
its not this, its that the third world proles are the revolutionary subject and that first world proles are all labor aristocrats. and it is maoism because maoism has nothing to do with mao. mao zedong thought is ml applied to chinese conditions aka swcc. maoism is an ultra tendency, the idea that protracted peoples war is universal and that people should take over the country side and lay siege to new york and los angeles. thats how maoism and twism are related, but they arent necessarily the same.
>Agrarian Anarchism
yeah thats maoism
>It's the same shit as liberals and anarchists about feeling guilty for "non-ethical consumption" and whatever. The plan too is mostly about living "outside the system" so to say, but instead of crack-dens and squats
yeah which is why its funny that left-coms are accusing marxist leninists who support national liberation and the right to self determination as third worldists. because actual third worldists are much closer to their own position that no one is redeemable and real communism has never been tried.

they are the first ones to call china and the ussr imperialist way before leftcoms. which is why this new cia/zionist position is so fucking stupid and incoherent. they dont even know enough about what they are saying to make sense.

theres also varying levels and justifications. like some first worlders are labor aristos but not all, just the union leaders and party bosses, or that the masses of lumpen and gig workers are still revolutionary and are the majority and gainfully employed proles that are registered to the two major parties and vote have retirement stocks with 401k and mortgage are all petite bourgeois and may be a minority or may represent the western majority.

>>2766827
Newfag here can someone give me a QRD on how CIA broke USSR?

>>2766987
I think they blew it up in the hanger.

>>2766842
It's a special military operation.

Come to think of it, when will we have a special military people's operation?

>>2767089
>CIA broke USSR
buddy the CIA thought the dissolution of the USSR was a Soviet ruse

Bake mongoloids

>>2767068
This is so stupid lmao.

The missing pilot being meat paste since 2 days would explain why nobody is able to find him, the other pilot being crippled for life

>>2767218
>crisps
>emergency food
ngmi