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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™

<Schrödinger's ceasefire

OP Backup Site: https://usapol.neocities.org/

💀 ICE & Prison Resources

(Amerika is the most incarcerated country in the world!)

• ICE tracker using public info and user submissions // https://www.iceinmyarea.org/
• list of deaths at ICE concentration camps // https://www.aila.org/infonet/deaths-at-adult-detention-centers
• visualization of prison population in US // https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
• Organizing in Prison — for when the walls close in (RANT Collective) // https://www.organizingforpower.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Organizing-in-Jail.pdf
• database of U.S. facilities incl. ICE holding sites // https://alcpress.org/usjails/index.html
• list of prison related resources, mailing lists, etc // https://www.prisonactivist.org/resources
• ICE Agent List (incomplete) // https://wiki.icelist.is/index.php/Category:Agents
• US Political Prison Tracker (last updated 2025) // https://uspoliticalprisoners.com/

Jailhouse Reading:

• 📖 Angela Davis - Are Prisons Obsolete? // https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/the-anarchist-library-full-list-of-pdfs-nov-2020/angela-y-davis-are-prisons-obsolete.pdf
• 📖 How to Defend Yourself During Police Interrogation // https://www.notrace.how/resources/download/comment-la-police-interroge-et-comment-sen-defendre/how-to-defend-yourself-during-a-police-interrogation.pdf
• 📖 National Lawyers Guild guide to being a jailhouse lawyer // https://www.jailhouselaw.org/
• 📖 Critical Resistance - Surviving Solitary Confinement // https://criticalresistance.org/resources/surviving-solitary/
• 📖 An inside-outside publication for abolitionist struggle & strategy across prison walls // https://criticalresistance.org/abolitionist/
• 📖 Prisoners’ Self-Help Litigation Manual // https://api.pageplace.de/preview/DT0400.9780199705665_A35159258/preview-9780199705665_A35159258.pdf

⚒️ LABOR!

• Live strike tracker with deep stats on who, what and when // https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/
• AFL-CIO [imperialist]'s Strike Tracker // https://aflcio.org/strike-map
• Labor Bureau's Official 'work stoppage' tracker // https://www.bls.gov/wsp/
• IWW timeline for the 20th century (ends at 1999) // https://archive.iww.org/history/chronology/
• IWW Work Place Organizing Guide // https://usa.anarchistlibraries.net/library/industrial-workers-of-the-world-libcom-org-solidarity-federation-walthamstow-anarchist-group-wo
• ▶ Salting | Work Place Organizing 101 (50 minute webinar) // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SHlCLyM4FY

⚖️ Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸

• deep list of horrible shit we (royal we) have done // https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md
• Coups and regime changes – master list // https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list
• Wikipedia: United States War Crimes // https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
• /our boys/ (bring em home!) detail abusing Iraqi prisoners [2006] // https://www.hrw.org/report/2006/07/22/no-blood-no-foul/soldiers-accounts-detainee-abuse-iraq
• More than 250 military interventions in the last 30 years alone // https://blackagendareport.com/us-launched-251-military-interventions-1991-and-469-1798
• Visualization of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade // https://www.slavevoyages.org/
• UNESCO Sites relating to Slavery // https://slaveryandremembrance.org/
• First Hand Documents of the horrors of Slavery // https://www.loc.gov/collections/slave-narratives-from-the-federal-writers-project-1936-to-1938/

📺 Glowie News 📺

(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))

• CNN Live // https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html
• MSNBC Live // https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/msnbc.html
• FOX Live // https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/fox-news-channel.html
• Bloomberg Live // https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us
• Burger House Live // https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/
• Local News // https://www.50states.com/ce/
• Weather // https://www.noaa.gov/weather

📺 Gommie News 📺

• Jacobin // https://jacobin.com/
• Black Agenda Report // https://blackagendareport.com/
• The Grayzone // https://thegrayzone.com/
• Leftvoice // https://www.leftvoice.org/
• Newsanon Filter // https://leftypol.org/search.php?search=name%3A%22News+Anon+3.0%22&board=leftypol

🏝️ Epstein's Client List 🇮🇱

• Epstein's Black Book // https://epsteinsblackbook.com/
• DOJ Disclosures // https://www.justice.gov/epstein/doj-disclosures
• Track AIPAC // https://www.trackaipac.com/
• Al Jazeera visual guide (2026) // https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/2/10/struggling-to-navigate-the-epstein-files-here-is-a-visual-guide

Essential American Politik 📖

• 📖 WEB Du Bois - Black Reconstruction // https://cominsitu.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/w-e-b-du-bois-black-reconstruction-an-essay-toward-a-history-of-the-part-which-black-folk-played-in-the-attempt-to-reconstruct-democracy-2.pdf
• 📖 Eugene Debs - Fourth of July Speech // https://jacobin.com/2020/07/eugene-debs-independence-day-address-fourth-july
• 📖 Power Anywhere There's People! – Fred Hampton // https://www.hamptonthink.org/read/power-anywhere-where-thats-people-fred-hampton
• 📖 War is a Racket – Smedley Butler // https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
• 📖 Letters From an American Farmer – St. John de Crevoecoeur // https://americanliterature.com/author/j-hector-st-john-de-crevoecoeur/book/letters-from-an-american-farmer/summary
• 📖 Trail of Broken Treaties // American Indian Movement https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf
• 📖 The Declaration of Independence https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript
• https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript
• 📖 The Ballot or the Bullet – Malcolm X // https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdfs/ballot_or_bullet.pdf
• 📖 What to the Slave is the Fourth of July? – Frederick Douglass // https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdfs/douglass_july_4_speech.pdf
• 📖 A Trail of Broken Treaties – American Indian Movement // https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf
• 📖 Custer Died for Your Sins – Vine Deloria Jr. // http://www.riversimulator.org/Resources/Books/CusterDiedForYourSinsAnIndianManifesto1969Deloria.pdf
• 📖 Emancipation Proclamation – Lincoln // https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/emancipation-proclamation
• 📖 Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville // https://americanliterature.com/author/alexis-de-tocqueville/book/democracy-in-america/summary
• 📖 Common Sense – Thomas Paine // https://americainclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Common-Sense-Full-Text.pdf
• 📖 An Indigenous History of the United States – Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz // https://nycstandswithstandingrock.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dunbar-ortiz-2014.pdf
• 📖 Huey Long – Share Our Wealth // https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth/huey-longs-share-our-wealth-speech

Which side are you on? - Pete Seeger

▶ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XKMwWZVpPE

Previous Thread: >>2793650
589 posts and 95 image replies omitted.

>>2798920
When george washington cut down that tree

>>2798921
and you think there aren't modern marxist economists like anwar shaikh, paul cockshott, cheng enfu, etc.?

>>2798921
this uygha thinks hes a scientist

>>2798907
not since 19th century continuously tho, it goes up and down, it expanded profoundly from 1880-1920s (gilded age) then the great depression resets everything, then post war boom for america, then there's stagnation in the 70s followed by neoliberal recovery but since then yea there's been a steep steady decline since at least the 2010s. the only problem tho is that now they are running out of options for calm recovery, and that's why everyone's been resorting to crazy fucking tactics just to balance their profits

>>2798921
what marx started continues to evolve, demonstrably, because marxism is a method, not a dogma, and has to be applied contextually to the material conditions of each time and place, this is baked into its foundation

>>2798916
I can point to actually existing gravity and explain how it works without ever bringing up Newton or telling someone to "just read Newton" but if you can't do this about Socialism without namedropping Marx than you've failed as a socialist.
Here's a challenge for you: If you met an alien from another planet would you be able to teach them class struggle without throwing a bunch of 18th century books at them? Because that's the actual challenge of getting the proletariat to develop class consciousness when most of them do not want to or don't have the capacity/time to read Marx but still can "feel" the inherent injustice in the system.

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>>2798929
>>2798907
>>2798919

>>2798934
OK but I didn't say anything to the contrary on that point, I was just arguing against your assertion that Marxists "worship" a dead man's words.

>>2798927
i meant to say that in the context of books about physics
>>2798926
there are marxist economists but they still operate to a dogma, hence why they call themselves marxists, rather than communist or socialist economists first and foremost
>>2798930
marxism isn't a method, it's a dogma invented by people to apply a narrow method to explain every social element, marxism is a corruption of marx

>>2798935
I don't need to namedrop anyone to explain class struggle, this is just a lazy strawman.

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>>2798936
real hegelian hours

>>2798938
>there are marxist economists but they still operate to a dogma, hence why they call themselves marxists, rather than communist or socialist economists first and foremost
>>2798938
>marxism isn't a method, it's a dogma invented by people to apply a narrow method to explain every social element, marxism is a corruption of marx

You've created a stupid kafka trap. If I quote Kim Il Sung for example saying Marxism is a method and not a dogma, you will say I am "appealing to the authority" of the "Marxist dogmatists." But if I try to show you without namedropping anyone how Marxism has been applied contextually in each time and place it was adopted by the actually existing class struggle, you will just say that Marxist theory was completely irrelevant and not needed. Your assertion is untestable, it's just a rhetorical trap, and a lazy one at that. There is no "win" conditions for the other side.

>>2798940
is it not? there's no newtonists advocating the newtonian system, because while newton had made great observations in physics, he was surpassed and is only the founder of modern gravity, you don't need to bring up newton every time we think about gravity, because his work is so far surpassed that is only ever cited in the historical sense, there's no communist economics that doesn't rely on a system similar to that of any nomic philosophical trend or religion, citing marx, lenin, engels, et-fuckin'-cetera, is proof of this, how often does a modern physicist cite newton? how much does the average communist cite the same 3 or more guys?

>>2798943
hes a debate addict, many such cases!

>>2798919
It already has. WW3 is happening in Iran and Ukraine. But it hasn't recovered the profit rate to even 60s levels. Bourgeois wars have been reduced to pathetic scuffles reminiscent of gangs fighting each other over revenue. Instead of sending millions to trenches in Western Europe, they merely sell weapons to random warlords in Africa, suicidal Ukrainian lemmings, and blow up oil shipments. This is actually a hopepill because it means capitalism is in terminal decline

>>2798936
exactly. there are no more 'legislative agendas' left to discover which can make things better on a gradual reformist scale (like how there was neoliberalism as a solution that hadn't yet been tried as much in the 80s). they have no choice but to just go all out with their destruction and imperialism. something like 19th century colonialism again

>>2798941
Yeah but I entered the conversation specifically to counter the notion that Marxists in general "worship". See how conversations evolve based on the shifting goalposts of the people who try asserting things unnecessary to the original argument?

>>2798943
i am saying that the idea of marxism is pointless, because it had achieved something by innovation, not by the religious-like citing, it would be like if liberals forever cited the same 10 guys from the 18th and early-mid 19th century whenever they got into an argument, citing them as if they were right, simply because they like them, and that they wrote it themselves

>>2798952
>it would be like if liberals forever cited the same 10 guys from the 18th and early-mid 19th century
they literally do this with Kant and Adam Smith. Go to the neoliberal subreddit. They wear those guys as flair.

>>2798929
There are countertendencies, but in general from 1960 to about 2020 it has declined 0.5% on average

>>2798949
exactly why i think canadians and danes shouldn't be so dismissive of americas threats towards them. an existential problem and they DGAF

>>2798835
You accord the scaborous yank devil too much merit. This amerika thread, so When the revisionist yank devils assert Leninist axom "Communist participate in bourgeois election," always know the devils actually mean complete supplication to capitalist zionist imperialist fascist like zohran platner aoc bernie, not Communist Party taking over congress like Leninist actually did.

>>2798946
the ideas of marx had proven value, and created and/or popularized various methods of historical analysis is this not true? well we can say that the marxists who worshipped marx the most created nothing, whereas the ones who used it as a signifier to mean communist or socialist, did create more useful systems, and didn't feel the need to quote the Marxengelslenin bible whenever they disagreed with a historical idea and sought to propose a new one
>>2798955
i mean yeah they do to an extent, but nowhere as much as the median marxist

>>2798952
Surplus value is real, exploitation is real, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall is real, the class struggle is real, labor militancy is real. If Marx had never lived the laws of motion of capital would have been discovered by others. "Marxism" is just a word of historical coincidence. It is not meant to implied that Marx should be worshiped or that if Marx had not existed the science of class struggle would have been lost… But it's OK. The real movement will continue to exist whether you insist it is dogmatic or not.

>>2798969
Yep, it is. Read more.

>>2798963
all of them are real yes, they exist independently of marxism as a concept, as something that is most similar dogmatism, in fact i'm arguing precisely that we should be communists who take what marx started, and actually turn it into a tool with which to beat the world with, rather than a verse citing religion, like it mostly is now

>>2798960
I mean, is it really that bad if you just use elections as a stepping stone to just kind of advertise or at least put your message out there?? everyone here adheres to revolutionary ideals in one way or another. of course communism can never be established through bourgeois elections and must undertake a violent revolution, but in a country where everyone thinks all there is to politics is their electoral system, why shouldnt people at least enter that sphere to let people know that they're there and that other beliefs exist than just liberal gay fascist imperialism vs Christian conservative fascist imperialism? we should never expect success from it, but it can be a useful tool (as merely a means to an end)

>>2798971
not in the first world hell no. people here r scared to even ask for raises, let alone go on collective strikes. you think people are gonna arm themselves?

>>2798962
so what's the difference, in your opinion between someone who quotes Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. in instances where they are still correct correct and someone who is merely quoting them "dogmatically"? Even Stalin said in 1927 "Engels was right about so and so in 1840s but now material conditions have changed and he is no longer correct." Even the most "authoritarian" and "dogmatic" of "marxists" when you actually stop and read what they are saying always stress context sensitivity, materialism, and a scientific outlook as being central to their understanding. The only reason there is any daylight between Communism and the literal scientific method is because the institutional science under class society has to pretend to neutrality while having serious conflicts of interests by receiving its grants and funding from the ruling class and bourgeois governments.


https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1926/11/01.htm

<In [Lenin's] investigations he followed the precept repeatedly uttered by Marx that Marxism is not a dogma, but a guide to action. Lenin knew this and, drawing a strict distinction between the letter and the essence of Marxism, he never regarded Marxism as a dogma but endeavoured to apply Marxism, as a fundamental method, in the new circumstances of capitalist development.

[…]

< Was what is said here, in this quotation, correct in the conditions of pre-monopoly capitalism, in the period when Engels wrote it? Yes, it was correct.

[…]

< Is this opinion correct now, in the new conditions, the conditions of monopoly capitalism and proletarian revolution? No, it is no longer correct.

… So how is it "dogmatic" or "dead man worship" when there is so much context sensitivity and reassessment of material conditions?

>>2798973
ok so you're just mad people call communism marxism sometimes? it's just tiresome language policing?

>>2798977
St*lin was anything but dogmatic. However, your general point is correct. Many will accuse Marxists and Socialists of being dogmatic without bringing an accurate alternative with them

>>2798974
>in a country where everyone thinks all there is to politics is their electoral system, why shouldnt people at least enter that sphere to let people know that they're there
because we should be organizing 24/7 and not just during election season. if you need to rely on elections to get your name out there then you've already failed. if people only pay attention to you during elections then you've already failed. we have 2-4 years of basically uncontested "campaigning" for the stuff we believe in outside of election season meanwhile our opposition is spending that time making life worse for everyone in the country. we should be yelling from the rooftops to kill the epstein class now and liberate humanity from their evil, not in 4 years.

>>2798976
not capitalism itself. the inhumanity of capitalism itself has enraged the proletariat. there were more powerful labor movements in the early and middle industrial age than peasant movements in all feudal history. it has been the violent reactions from the bourgeoisie that have scared the proles into submission

>>2798977
the difference is that you shouldn't need to incessantlly quote the same 10 guys over and over again for it to work, should we keep quoting them because they were "right", rather than quoting things that are truly relevant to now? i say we should
>>2798979
the two are different concepts, as hard as you want it to be

>>2798973
if tomorrow every single communist called themselves "communist" only and never quoted Marx, Engels, Lenin, or Stalin again, and only used the most scientific ideas from the history of labor struggle, never built a statue or carried a portrait, never participated in any cult of personality… it would not matter one iota. The ruling classes would continue to slander Communists as dogmatists, dead man worshipers, etc. While still parading around their presidents, preachers, constitutional monarchs, philosophers, etc. People who work at places with names like the "Ludwig Von Mises Institute" have zero sense of hypocrisy on this matter.

>>2798980
I was giving an an example by anon's own logic. it's called immanent critique

>>2798984
it would not matter what they think, but what would be produced as a result of this lower dogmatism

>>2798921
>no because the idea of gravity evolved beyond newton, and whenever discussions of physics are brought up, they don't quote newton 10000 times, they quote modern scientists on the subject
on the contrary, newton is quoted all the time, we use "newtonian" to refer to models of physics which are less "true to real life" than others but which continue to be useful in certain contexts. Thomas S Khun has a good exposition on why this is in his Structure of Scientific Revolutions


>>2798981
of course I didnt mean focus solely or mainly on elections, but rather use it as an extra tool in addition to community organizing and and our own media campaigns or whatever it is Marx and Lenin would have wanted us to do

>>2798987
ok well you have made your point. by your logic it is time to go out in real life and actually practice what you preach until there is a "real (no for real this time) movement" that counters the fake real movement of evil dogmatist marxism which has done nothing in your estimation but slander real communism (the ideas in your head)

>>2798988
i don't mean they mention newton by name, they don't quote works by newton as necessary to understand the concept of gravity

>>2798991
personally I just don't think elections, especially national elections, are useful for marxist messaging to begin with. it's just begging the media to go full "campaign mode" on you and start trying to manufacture scandals to destroy your momentum.

I really believe the best thing we can do is just not get involved in elections and organize outside of the spectacle of electoralism. Once we hit critical mass it'll be impossible to ignore anyway, winning an election won't make a difference tbh.

Of course if someone wants to campaign as a longshot socialist candidate for city council or something just to improve their local community then go for it imo.

>>2798993
>they don't quote works by newton as necessary to understand the concept of gravity
you do realize that maybe that class society itself is the reason your average economics textbooks ignores surplus value entirely and Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. continue to be quoted on that matter? Even Adam Smith has a better exposition on surplus value than your average contemporary economics textbook. Newton's gravity was never offensive to the ruling class, so of course you don't need to quote Newton to explain gravity because class society has baked gravity into education because it is not threatened by gravity the way it is threatened by surplus value.

>>2798997
Anon I don't know if you know this but Marx is required reading in polisci intro courses across the country. His teachings are not being hidden from the public people just don't want to read. you have to be able to explain things with your own words using modern language and modern examples and not rely on Marx to do all the heavy lifting for you.

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>>2799000
It's less work to bring up a quote than explain it in your own words. I do agree that a lot of Marxists don't think for themselves much though
>>2798993
They do though. I don't know about your HS education but Newton was quoted in my textbook

>>2799000
>polisci
as opposed to economics, which is much more foundational and common of a major.
>Marx is required reading
in poisci you will at best get a (liberal slanted) political reading of marx, and not get much economic content at all
> His teachings are not being hidden from the public people just don't want to read
ok?
>you have to be able to explain things with your own words using modern language and modern examples and not rely on Marx to do all the heavy lifting for you.
I literally do this all the time, it's not that hard. And when I do it I get called a Marxist dogmatist by people like you because people like you accuse anyone who says the working class is being exploited of being a Marxist dogmatist, whether they actually are or not. That's why there's no winning this argument.

>>2799000
replied in the new thread

Platnerchads, we can't stop winning.


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