/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2840448
ethane is only one of many commodities that comes from the gas fields. if you want the other stuff, you have to get ethane as well. they burned ethane to keep the production process for everything else going. (you could think of it like a coal mine producing a lot of non-coal rock, if you like. a coal mine that throws such rubble away instead of selling it isn't "overproducing" rock, it's just getting semi-useful junk as part of the coal mining process)
before mossmorran they used to just flare it at sea!

>>2840449
there were other processors but no means of physically transporting the gas to them in the short-medium term. no pipeline or tanker-filling connects existed, the only output was directly into the nearby processing plant.
(something that makes more sense when you remember ethane is just a byproduct of getting at more valuable stuff)

In fall 1988 1/3 of soviet harvest wasn't delivered to the state and another 1/3 was wasted despite the sector sucking up huge state subsidies.
I say this not to denigrate socialism in general (this is of course late, dysfunctional USSR) but to illustrate that for all the apparent simplicity you'll find in individual cases, it is very very easy to blunder resource management and very hard to get it right at scale. throwing away a tiny fraction of a product here or there because of the price system is galling because it appears to be purposeless waste, but at the highest level it is much less wasteful than 95% of the alternatives. one must reject the idea this is the best we can do, but one must also recognise just how difficult it is to do better at a global scale.

>>2844622
the USSR should have done OGAS

>>2811601
Old bourgeoisie turn into fossils while new porkies replace the old guard. The class structure itself is more interesting than individual drama.

>>2811649
>the net result for society is that someone set up a useful service
You could maybe make this argument for Bezos and Amazon but Musk is absolutely the worst possible example you could pick.
Musk has not done shit except buy out other companies and eat up taxpayer dollars. All of his original ideas have been awful flops.

extremely stupid OP
stop creating low quality threads which by design cannot go beyond Crackold Cuckinson has 282673gazillions pedodollars in assets! the 1% of the 1% are too rich! no one deserves to be a gazillionaire! >.< uWu

bernie is dead, grow up millenial funko-pop animal

>>2845068
that's a lotta buzzwords to admit you suck billionaire cock

>>2845128


that means the nut i swallow is worth more than every drink youve sipped in your lifetime

>>2845068
>he said while posting using the Belarusian flag, unaware that Lukashenko rapes oligarchs to death and income inequality in Belarus is among the lowest in the entire world
lol

>>2844871
That's the point, he was a cretin who got rich being in the right place at the right time. His insufferable presence is a small tax paid on getting the desirable end result, and paying it is easy because so much value was produced.
(They're all cunts, of course)

>>2845131
>if a billionaire nuts in my throat that makes my life worth more
sad mindset homie

>>2845127
>>2845128
>>2845131
>>2845154
>>2845589
>>2845595
you fucking morons have serious reading comprehension problems.
where did I defend billionaires? I'm saying you burgers ""leftists""" need to evolve beyond bernie level libcuckery

>>2846119
Post >>2845589
Has nothing to do with you lol

>>2838064
i do and say all of this

>>2844622

1988 is perestroika era.

>>2811616
Vietnam and China worship him too

>>2848043
the post already points out that it exists to illustrate how wasteful an actually broken system can be, not to denigrate the USSR.

>>2812994
>capitalist innovations
what innovations are you talking about?

>>2848686
what? you have shown so far huge admiration for supposed "efficiency" (lol) and "incentive structure" (double lol) under capitalism and constantly pick the USSR as an example as how not to do it. This whole vulgar economic approach starting very late Stalin/ early Khrushchev period destroyed the USSR in the long run. There was talk about providing more "incentives", more "autonomy" etc.. which let to profit seeking and worsened material conditions objectively speaking.

>>2848758
hot cheetos and mcdonalds

>>2811601
>his genius brain innovates 455 dollars into his pocket.
jealous much?

>>2848903
it's 577 now. he's a trillionaire

>>2848763
The USSR collapsed precisely because it got incentives wrong under Gorbachev. Instead of setting up normal profit seeking enterprises, everyone just got rich looting the basically non-profit state economy of goods. China by contrast got it right and is now not just so flush with goods that it's become the workshop of the world, but rich too! The fact China remains a communist governed state and has arguably done capitalism (or at least the market economy) better than the capitalists should be cause for gloating, not coping because you really really really don't want to let individuals decide how many labubus we need this year.

The USSR is an example of how not to do it, with degrees of how not to do it at each stage. (e.g. the early state lead development+ literacy in particular were basically necessary and good, as in China, at some later point they hit the part where planning underperformed the market which would've been the optimal point to invent dengism, and then by Gorbachev they underperformed both past planning and the market and imploded while China got strong.)

It is not enough to vaguely talk about incentives and autonomy, you have to actually get them right. Britain's Blair government was obsessed with both points and also wound up creating a Gorbachev situation of doing worse than the previous system and worse than a real market. The UK used to be very slightly poorer than the US per head, now it is massively so (and, indeed, declining relative to Europe too. It'll soon be poorer than Poland!)

>>2811669
>gym
Confirmed office "worker" menace.

>>2849832
manual workers also hit the gym ya loon. manual labor isn't the same as exercise, in fact, if you don't exercise recreationally you get repetitive strain injuries while doing manual labor.

>>2849783
the USSR collapsed because the CPSU went revisionist and dissolved the Union against the will of the majority of people living in it. Even the CPC's reform and opening up didn't have the same effect because Deng was nowhere near as bad as Gorbachev even though many here pretend he was. Deng would never have dissolved the PRC and the CPC the way Gorbachev dissolved the USSR and CPSU.

>>2850014
Gorbachev just really believed in the self determination of nations,a true leninist

>>2849783
At no point was the market better than actual socialist economy. Almost every single issue in the Soviet economy can be traced back exactly to party officials failing in their duty to adapt to the new stages of socialist construction and choosing to fall back on market methods. Deficit especially only started with "decentralizing" reforms in the 60s.
China is a very different country with very different conditions. It was never an option for the Soviet Union to just accept western investment and grow productive forces in relative peace. Being in Europe just doesn't make for a peaceful neighborhood because hitlerites will always want to exterminate you for existing, as we can see with the proxy war on Russia today. Neither did China have as relatively easy of a time with collectivizing agriculture and moving past the primitive petty bourgeois order in general.

>>2850014
This referendum is basically cope, the wording is a Rorschach test that means whatever you want it to mean
>A renewed federation of equal sovereign republics
Is one which republics can freely leave, as they ultimately did.
For example: Ukraine voted 83% to remain in the USSR, but 81% (e.g. almost everyone) voted to do so on the basis of the "Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine" which "decreed that Ukrainian SSR laws took precedence over the laws of the USSR, and declared that the Ukrainian SSR would maintain its own army and its own national bank with the power to introduce its own currency", e.g. was utterly incompatible with any kind of functional federal governance. Russia had already issued its own union-destroying declaration that Russian laws trumped union laws, and so on.

I would highly recommend the book "Collapse", if you haven't read it. The underlying economic problems needed a solution, and while Gorbachev utterly bungled and made things worse, almost any scenario in which the USSR existed today would be one with a more market oriented economy. (Nevertheless, as you'll see in collapse, Gorbachev was one of the great bunglers of history. There's basically no moment at which he doesn't make the worst possible move.)

>>2850472
More true than you know. In his earlier days he really did read Lenin for inspiration and almost always came back with the worst ideas possible. (There's even a thread on this very topic in the catalog…)

>>2850493
>actually wanting to keep the union together means maintaining the right to secede from the union, which means actually the referendum means nothing and is basically the same as the people supporting the dissolution

You are very good at mental gymnastics. i hope you work for a think tank and don't do this for free

>>2850496
My point is that the wording "sovereign republics" is incompatible with maintaining the union in a context where member states are already spiralling towards secession. (In particular Russia, without which there could be no USSR, and where Yeltsin was very clear on wanting full sovereignty.)

How do you reconcile the behaviour of the Ukrainians? How do you envision a continued USSR with a "sovereign" Ukraine and Russia with their own central banks, airlines, and laws that trump Union laws? Even the EU, which accepts the first two, rejects that last part.

It is not that the referendum tells you people supported the end of the USSR, it is that the referendum tells you nothing at all. The people all probably wanted precisely what Ukraine and Russia asked for: a continued USSR, but one that deferred to their national interests and demands at all turns, without having to compromise or consider other nationalities or wider union priorities. It is not, after all, their problem to implement such a nonsensical request.
The referendum did not ask the actual practical question they faced: "what is more important, national sovereignty or the continued existence of the USSR?"

>>2850524
the USSR began with sovereign republics. the wording just implies a continuation of that.

REAL sovereignty is when your country becomes a colony of western capital but you get to vote on the compradors sending you to fight against your neighbors and cousins.

Capitalist-apologetics be like
>every minute he was borned he was thinken about thos ways of revolutionizing production
>even in his mother's womb he was thinken aboot them cyber loops and paypals and teslas

>>2850700
In short, he was thinken about thos beenz way early

>>2850623
And the 81% of voters endorsing the declaration of Ukrainian state sovereignty at the same time? (Which, as noted, contained provisions utterly incompatible with a functioning union)

Most of his wealth isn't even real. It's all retail bagholders inflating his companies' stock prices. It's fake even by porky standards.

>>2851295
you seem to be confusing sovereignty with secession over and over.

>>2811649
Is this austrian snekonomics?
Excellent bait btw.

>>2811789
>how apparently irrational (evolutionary) processes can have better outcomes than more rationally planned ones
Who says better outcomes? If this is about being forced into accepting the outcomes of a process, you never hear about those that didn't fit into the market unless disparagingly. And lest you forget your perception of the past is shaped by current propaganda. I can tell you honestly that the western media and academia lie 100% about how the USSR actually worked. So all that bullshit about muh grain didn't go where it needed is either trivial stuff blown out of proportion or outright lies. Case in point how China's planned outcomes are better than western "evolutionary" processes. DPRK is another example given their circumstances.

>>2851622
yeah sad that most people don't know that if he tries to cash in those shares, it will be a fire sale lol. The way these richfags get to use that money is by taking out loans on the collateral of that stock.

>>2851664
That is a fair accusation in my earlier posts (because I take as a given that actual sovereignty makes secession inevitable given the circumstances) but in that particular post you draw the wrong implications: the "declaration of Ukrainian state sovereignty" is a specific piece of legislation from 1990 that went far beyond that vagueposting word into declaring Ukrainian law superior to union law, that Ukraine would have a separate army and central bank capable of introducing it's own currency, which would not join any military blocs, etc. I am asking you how you reconcile the idea that Russian and Ukrainian law is superior to union law with the existence of a union. How does the USSR function as a federation in a way that is compatible with this declaration, which is what Ukrainians voted for?even a very loose NATO or EEC type alliance is precluded by the prohibition of military blocs or the primacy of Ukrainian law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine

>>2851679
> if he tries to cash in those shares, it will be a fire sale
the haute bourgeoisie always get richer in such a scenario because they turn the middle class retail investors into bag holders. before a stock market crash there is always a lot of IPOs and desperate attempts to get stocks on the nasdaq so it can end up in 401ks. Get the normies to hold the bag then plummet the price. after everyone bails buy it back up cheap.

>>2811929
the classcuck went mute at this question

>>2848903
it's more money than a human being could possibly use in several lifetimes. he himself will die having not used 99.99999999999% of it for anything, while paying accounts to manage it, and dolling out a small portion of it to his many ex-wives and spawn… what's the point? Legitimately what is the point?

>>2811929
Does it matter when the USSR subsequently collapsed in an embarrassing heap? If there were incentives to develop in the short term, they clearly weren't there for staying the course.

>>2854231
I should be less glib: "does it matter?" Was unduly dismissive. My actual point would be that capitalism can function with a dud leader so long as he doesn't meddle too much (and even then his meddling can be routed around) since the incentive structure is decentralised while soviet socialism was dependent on having a Stalin tier leader to keep things in check and progress progressively slowed and then stagnated under average tier leaders before finally appointing a substantially below average leader who brought the whole thing down. (And he was not uniquely bad in this respect, many of his ideas were clichés of his generation.)

A system dependant on always having a once in a generation talent in charge is a doomed system. Better a thousand average people, some lucky, some blundering.

https://xcancel.com/NickGriffinBTP/status/2070778754654208425

https://xcancel.com/zei_squirrel/status/2071283893336948830

https://xcancel.com/zei_squirrel/status/2071312887822319653

About that movie Elon has been gushing over, it’s basically just Islamophobic propaganda, and a hymn to racial violence. Also, some guy on Leftypol named captain Sindabad did a break down of it. Apparently more locals and cops get killed than non-whites LOL

As for use message: There are fans who are eagerly rooting for Sanders' killing sprees but Uwe Boll himself the film is not meant to endorse the killing of immigrants and that the film is designed to spark debate regarding the character's violent actions rather than serving as a standard, celebratory hero narrative: https://youtu.be/ySHByNp6pNk

But yh, I find it unconvincing considering how the MC’s actions are never questioned in-story nor is he pushed back against. Truly an Uwe Boll movie alright.

Going back to Elon: What bugs me about Musk is his sheer evilness. This is a trillionaire who isn't just a product of apartheid SA, but also has no regards for truth and knowledge that he is happy to push lies even as it leads to the deaths of millions, all the while whining about leftists saying mean things to him. Like, he'll boost nazi content but only to deny he is a nazi since he supports Israel and censors anti-zionism on his private platform. He is basically a villain of the kind shown in anime and cyberpunk fiction.

I tell my friend all the time
If you were writing like a cyberpunk novel or something
If the antagonist is a Nazi trillionaire
Then your editor would probably say its too on the nose – at least prior to recent years Thats just the reality of 2026 tho lol

Speaking of which, for some reason despite being a Nazi POS of a trillionaire, he sure gets rattled whenever he gets called a Nazi or that his cuts of USAID has led to multiple deaths across impoverished countries. Freudian slip on his part perhaps? You decide: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2026/06/23/after-musk-mentions-lawsuit-ro-khanna-suddenly-wants-a-debate-1647430/

Funniest thing is how he pivoted to the “Wuhan virus lab leak” conspiracy theory talking point in his RTs to imply that USAID contributed to covid. Oh, and now he also tried to do whataboutism on it. Keep in mind that we are talking about the world’s richest man who decided to spend on his birthday by LARPing as his mom as he posts AI-generated pics of his birthday cake.