>>2814597I don't think its controversial or contentious, but its still important to highlight the theoretical importance; racism is international, while nationalism is extremely ecclectic. S Poster for example, is a supporter of English Nationalism, yet is presumably an anti-racist. The only other real nationalist I've seen is Oswald Mosley, who was not in any sense a tory, yet toryism has subsumed nationalism.
>>2814646People liked the Queen, and lots of people celebrated the Coronation of the King, but no one really cares. The most traffic he gets is hate from the right, since he is tolerant of Islam.
>>2814609anything can be learned, but institutionalized education is dogshit and drives curious people away from the subjects that are imposed on them. children learn by playing around with things, by showing them the possibilities and the practical applications and generally by having fun with it and indulging their curiosity.
being forced to do art in school put back my abilities 15 years.
>>2814668>Aliens in Doncaster You don't say
>>2814832
>Sinn Fein
They are pathetic for selling out on the armed struggle, they run occupied Ireland for Westminster, they think that the prots are a seperate nation rather than settler colonists. They will never vote away British rule. However they are obviously the best of the three by far.
>SNP
An effective nationalist party. Also they are just liberals who want to join the EU, aren't effectively anti-imperialist and are really corrupt. I don't know much more about them tho so I will put as number 2.
>Plaid Cymru
Were nazi aligned in the 30s, then became really boring ultra-pacifists who were against any illegal activity and the party leadership squashed the young members of the party who wanted radicalism in the 60s. Basically extreme cucks. They are also a pro-EU party and not even a strongly pro-independence one, they will never deliver us freedom, they are a liberal party with a landlord as its leader. They also say they are a socialist party in the manifesto lol. But they will never get anything done and they have been a bad thing for Welsh radicalism so I put them at number 3. Still think its cool they won tho.
>>2815051they regard the UDA and other organizations as fundamentally good, even if they make the mistake of killing your own brother, as long as northern ireland isn't handed to those filthy cat-o-lics, it doesn't matter for them
>>2815027this is based, but i dont understand why you'd nationalize steel (a sector which is generally less monopolizing) before water??? or even finish nationalizing rail????
>>2815082it's meant to send a message
>>2815084yeah it's probably quantitatively easier to nationalize even if less efficient, not much left of british steel these days
>>2815082because steel is needed to make shells and water and passenger rail isn't.
(even though iirc our steel is so mediocre we'd probably import chinese steel to overpay BAE to make us shells that don't work. defense spending is a racket. )
Can anyone confirm the veracity of this report?:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/05/tommy-robinsons-unite-the-kingdom-march-goes-nowhere/Also, I think worries about surveillance and the justified concerns about two-tier policing when it comes to Zionism in Chud island might explain the low numbers behind the Nakba 76 protests. After all, it’s not like the subhuman British reactionaries have to worry about censorship as much since they’re massive Jew-poles with anti-immigrationist brainrot.
Get it? They have schlongs stuck on their mouths and bottoms, forming a pole/stick made of Jews and a shabbos goy. A Jew-pole!
>>2815051Tbh, you could say the same thing about the lumpen who support kosher right figures like Tommy Robinson, as well as feminazis like the zio-TERF Posie Parker as many of them often talk and behave with full hatred and resentment resembling that of the average kahanist or azovite, as if they’re devoid of any human emotion like empathy and compassion. You’ll only see them being angry and hateful all the time, and only find joy in doing evil shit, and sad only when one of their own gets hurt. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be white people as much as members of their own cult.
Ultimately, the question is: Are they like this because they’re broke, or because over the centuries they have adopted the same bigotry and nasty instincts of the British aristocracy when it comes to tyrannising people they deem as their lessers or enemies?
Because, in some sense, it reminds me of how Dalits of India, despite being discriminated against by the Brahmin and others of the upper castes, often adopt the same violent and nasty bigotry as that of the upper castes both to feel secure in their position as “superior to the lesser other” (whatever said “other” is. Could be blacks, Muslims, etc…) as well as due to cultural osmosis and normalisation of tribalistic and vindictive hatred, a hatred indistinguishable from that of ancient Jewish tribes fighting against each other for petty reasons.
Which goes back to the question: Is Zionism a class marker? I think yes because, if you notice who Zionists often happen to be, more often than not it’s the bourgeois (e.g., J K Rowling) or people who identify themselves with the upper class (e.g., Richard Hanania), whereas pro-Palestine people are either from the prole or identify themselves with it (e.g., much of the broader non-liberal left). Considering how the white British lumpen identify themselves more with the very British upper class that despises them, I think anyone can do the math here.
Ofc, this is simplistic, but this is a trend that I couldn’t help but notice online, especially as time goes on.
>>2815102I don't believe in comparing Ukrainians to zionists and terfs as they are actually being slaughtered for unjust reasons and arent being helped much by their "allies".
While zionists are being attacked for good reasons and terfs arent being attacked they are just psychotic.
>>2815102Id's say it's far beyond those kind of people, even you average Tommy Robinson fan cares about their families, like if Robinson killed their brother, I don't think they'd like him very much, lots of people are hatefull toward strangers for no good reason, but being hateful to the point that you're willing to be friend with those who killed the ones you loved for no reason is inhumane.
I think people underestimate how hateful unionists are, in 2001 there was a catholic elementary girl's school in a protestant neighborhood, unionists, alleging that the parents could be IRA members, decided to harass the little girls, including hurling insults at them, throwing bottle of piss, show pornography to them, some guy even threw a bomb at them.
This was celebrated by the unionist community at large. I think the only equivalent I can think of are Israeli Settlers. And honestly, I don't think there is such hatred from the British aristocracy, I'd say it stems more from the fact that these people have nothing in their lives, their cause is meaningless, the people in chose name they fight are giving them absolutly nothing, really it's a very sad movement in a way, thousands wasting their life for absolutly nothing.
>>2815125ironically enough if the entirety of ulster was given to ireland right now, they'd be treated better than the UK currently treats them
>>2815132
Most isms wind up positioning their subjects against their ideals.
e.g. feminists (especially TERFy ones) hate women ("handmaidens") for failing to live up to the ideal of feminism, workerists hate the shelf-stacking coffee-baristaing working class of the service economy for not being coal miners or f-35 manufacturers, many racists actually hate white liberals more than ethnic minorities, etc.
even in benign forms: i admit that as a scottish nationalist sympathizer i think scottish unionists craven and pathetic to the extent that i don't really consider most of them as scottish at all. i quite obviously position the existing population of scotland against scotland the ideal. a position made funnier by the fact i really do believe scottishness is residence+identity based, apparently with the rider that being born here actually means stricter standards are applied than if you immigrate…
>>2815158Jimmy Savile LITERALLY got away with it
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8257elr81o
>Henry Nowak, 18, from Chafford Hundred, Essex, was killed as he walked back from a night out in Southampton on 3 December.
>A trial at Southampton Crown Court heard that alleged attacker Vickrum Digwa, 23, was filmed by Nowak carrying a shastar – the Punjabi word for weapon or knife – which had a 21cm (8in) blade.
>Jurors heard the attack was not witnessed, but neighbours heard Nowak say he had been stabbed and was dying, before trying to escape by climbing over a fence.
>A blood trail indicated he had already been fatally wounded, the court heard.
>The prosecution alleged Digwa then "chose to aggressively pursue him".
>Footage played in court captured an exchange in which Nowak said: "Innit bad man, what bad man. You're a bad man, say you're a bad man, go on", to which Digwa replied: "I am a bad man".
>The video ended moments later.
>Lobbenberg said: "He didn't seek help for the man he had injured with his sizeable knife, instead he accused him of being a racist and being drunk."
>He added that police initially handcuffed Nowak and started giving him first aid when he then collapsed.https://news.sky.com/story/student-stabbed-to-death-with-extremely-large-knife-after-night-out-with-football-team-in-southampton-court-told-13543982
>Mr Lobbenberg said that Digwa denied stabbing Mr Nowak at the scene. He also claimed that "he had been racially abused and attacked by a drunken man".
>"Henry protested he hadn't attacked Vickrum Digwa, and he had been stabbed," the prosecutor added.Coppas may have put a guy bleeding to death in handcuffs because the guy that stabbed him called him racist
>>2815158if he was those things, he would be the ultimate boogeyman for the rest of time
>>2815160How can you even talk to people like this? They're so fucking stupid. Why not go after the police for doing nothing about it for so long (probably partly because there were police officers complicit) rather than 'da left'?
>>2815163>Coppas may have put a guy bleeding to death in handcuffs because the guy that stabbed him called him racistBro police put everyone in handcuffs, not an uncommon thing. Not saying it's right but yet again there's no proof that 'da left' is behind this
>>2815175I literally don't understand their point - are they claiming Saville was exposed for his crimes because he was an oppressed white man? Its schizophrenia.
Reform voters are on average low status people who invest their personal identity in stupid stuff like their nationality. They lash out because their relative social status is falling. Immigrants are a problem not because of any economic factor, but because it stings to know most of your netters would prefer sharing a bus with an illiterate Somalian to sharing one with you.
But this is basically their own fault. In the age of the internet you can invest your self worth in all sorts of good or at least harmful causes, like being right on leftypol.org, and you can divest yourself of stuff like national identity if it makes you cringe. if you choose to fight a rearguard action for tasteless causes you've got nobody to blame but yourself when your status falls. It will keep falling the more you lash out. All Brexit achieved was to knock all of Britain down a peg. Maybe for a moment that was fun for low status losers, but ten years on it hasn't moved the game inside Britain by a single inch.
TERFism is the same game but for middle aged women bitter that transsexuals are cooler than they are and for angry loser men who used to be regarded as progressive just because they weren't religious cranks.
Taste and morality are closer than they'd seem. Bad taste and sadism are almost synonymous.
>>2815175you need a man in a white coat to take them elsewhere
>>2815178It's just being incredibly stupid. If these people are so upset still by the grooming gangs thing, which yeah fair enough is awful but at the same time wasn't it over a decade ago now, why do they attack the left over it, and not the pigs who were actually responsible for doing anything about it? These people actually think the police told their local MP about the gangs and said we need to arrest them and he was like "no… This is all part of the white genocide plan…" so the police couldn't do anything about it.
>>2815182Not taking their side, but the authorities did say they didn't reveal anything because they were scared of being called racist, now of course thats just an excuse by them to justify not doing their jobs, but thats why Reform blames the left for it.
>>2815182>why do they attack the left over it?Because they're clueless. They don't know how to think, only how to feel. Thinking offends them and they will.try to rip out your tongue.
>wasn't it over a decade ago now
its allegedly still going
>why do they attack the left over it
are leftists pro-migrant? if the answers yes then it should be pretty obvious why they blame leftists, if the answers no then its because they've got leftists mixed up with social progressive multiculturalists.
>>2815183How much of a shit do you have to be to actually accept that excuse though? Like it would be reasonable to not do anything about dozens of girls getting raped just because "someone might call me racist"? If you're that much of a fucking pussy you certainly shouldn't be a police officer, they are seriously the most cowardly group on Earth.
When I worked at a hostel we had some pigs come to pick up someone's medication that they'd arrested, they took one look at his room and were like "well it's not on a table so we're not going looking in drawers for it" because of needle stick risk presumably, so I just said I'll do it myself and went and found it. Like ok you don't want to get stuck, maybe just be careful then like we have to? It's not that hard to avoid needles and I'm sure they've had the same training we did, probably a lot more. They're just fucking pussies.
>>2815185True. Some guy made some stupid racist comment on Facebook and I replied to it, he replied to me again with more wrong information, and I replied again to correct it and show how he's wrong, and he just deleted his comments and replied "don't have time to deal with a know it all, bet you're great at parties" or some shit like that, like what a bitch move, you're gonna go post racist filth but you're not even committed enough to defend it against scrutiny? Dickhead.
>>2815186If they have evidence of it ongoing they should go talk to the police.
>>2815187
Insane Neonazi screed. Of course some of the girls were at least partially consenting in a practical sense (legally they have no power to do so) but this this just about the worst take imaginable on this issue. For some people apparently "bash the paki groomers" is too moderate, and they think that we need to bash the young girls for fucking outside their race instead. Even if you're a Nazi that is such an insane uphill struggle to make, it's so much more sensible to portray the girls as the victims they in fact are.
>>2815188>How much of a shit do you have to be to actually accept that excuse though?people accept it as the truth because its probably true, the coppas want above all else to keep the peace so they can do a little work as possible, and are willing to do some perverse stuff like not investigate a pakistan rape gang because they know they'll have to deal with race riots if they look into it and a 1000 man rape gang running around
>>2815191i hope you've said this as a joke
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpvxr7wv74mo>>2815179<Reform voters are on average low status people who invest their personal identity in stupid stuff like their nationality. They lash out because their relative social status is falling. Immigrants are a problem not because of any economic factor, but because it stings to know most of your netters would prefer sharing a bus with an illiterate Somalian to sharing one with you.
<But this is basically their own fault. In the age of the internet you can invest your self worth in all sorts of good or at least harmful causes, like being right on leftypol.org, and you can divest yourself of stuff like national identity if it makes you cringe. if you choose to fight a rearguard action for tasteless causes you've got nobody to blame but yourself when your status falls. >>2815189<like what a bitch move, you're gonna go post racist filth but you're not even committed enough to defend it against scrutiny? Dickhead.If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed against
>>2815188It's less about the cops, the issue was larger then that, it's a systemic failure rather then a purely police one, the far right argues that wokeness has made it impossible to criticise muslims, the actual left wing perspective on it is to see that the girls were from the working class, and therefore were seen as inherently filthy by the authorities in place. But you have to keep in mind that this perspective isn't really shared in the media, who took part in the coverup of the issue, the main interpretation you'll see will be the far right one. Obviously the scandal also plays in xenophobic fears that prexisted it, the incompetance of the British state only added to it.
>>2815191Last time they did the police covered it up.
>>2815198>If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed againstAh yes, we need to return power to the working class (read: pigshit idiots)
>>2815202>Last time they did the police covered it up.Fine, but I'm the one these fucks have put their hands on, not police officers, I've nothing to do with it. They're fucking cowards.
>>2815204To clarify I'm saying right wingers like to pretend that only fat white rightoids that love footie (except there's too many blacks on the team) are the real working class and nobody else, not the working class are actually like that
>>2815189This is the essential point; facts cannot be racist, so how can facts cause someone to become racist? If you have facts, then, you cannot be racist, unless your knowledge is incomplete. When these people think they have a "gotcha" its always best to reply "yes, and" and they will melt by your reasonableness. You'll notice this with so much of the right, who are constantly degensive, and so if you allow them to vent, their defenses drop. If you simply add truth to truth, you get more of what is necessary to understanding. You cannot reach another person by trying to fight with them. Blessed are the peacemakers.
>>2815210
Oh fuck off. Even if we are gonna say that maybe it should be allowed to have sex with under 16s, this certainly was an abusive dynamic and yeah maybe some people will not tell the truth but when it's so many victims you can't just act like they're all lying
>>2815198>If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed againstthis is true but not because either of those posters are wrong. the working class are by and large not reform voters.
>>2815207
As far as I understand it, because the ones on the ground thought it was simple speeding as opposed to being le 100 gorillion car murders. Like, even if you think drunk driving is wrong for some reason, you’d have to admit that a lot of the stuff that passes as “common sense” in this topic is either based on hearsay, unverified testimonies from during addicts, apocryphal tales, or unfalsifiable yellow-press journo slop. An example is the “1 gorillion killed English children”, which is based on a dumb extrapolation from a case in one town.
Regarding claims of racism, I’m not so sure that’s completely explanatory. I mean, Britain in the 1960s and 1970s was much more tolerant of drunk driving sex relative to today to the extent that most policemen wouldn’t do shit when it comes to reports of some drivers speeding at 130 miles an hour on a school zone.
In fact, most interviews from the police involved indicate it was less about avoiding charges of racism than it has to do with the fact that they probably saw it as a more nuanced case of car accidents, especially as many of the “children” (underage teenagers really) were repeated jaywalkers.
Which ok, you might say running over jaywalkers is still wrong despite being largely a consequence of their actions. But that wouldn’t exactly the at the meat of the issue, which is the fact that most of those pubescent and underage teenagers came from dysfunctional households where single motherhood is prevalent. So the focus should be on alleviating youth poverty to the best of the state’s ability and either support struggling single moms financially or just discourage single motherhood altogether.
But ofc, can’t have nuance in it. Can we? It’s all “Irish man bad”, “the English working class would be an utopia without le darn P*ddys”, and so on.
But even taking the chuds’ claims for granted, it still wouldn’t excuse the outsized focus out of vibes. Every inquiry done by the government has indicated that the percentage of such cases are far lower than the public imagines, typically below the 5% mark. Even if we do with the “muh underreporting” cope, the same can be said for overall “Drunk Crashers” and thus wouldn’t justify presuming drunk driverz (wtf even is “drunk driving” anyway) cases to be 100 billion as British reactionaries like to believe.
People will call me I’m a drunk driver or whatever, but honestly you guys shouldn’t take mainstream claims at face value and instead use critical thinking on a case-by-case basis. Need I remind you that one of the most prominent accusers turned out to be a false accuser that led some drivers to suicide over her false accusations?:
As for the Emma Watson case, Spiked Online has it covered well enough, and I’d agree with their claims that the inquiry on her was a grift of epic proportions, especially considering how the claims of driving over corpses and engaging in satanic rituals turned out to be BS:
The reform voter is a pathetic working class loser jealous of migrants doing better than him, atleast until insulting them like this starts to look bad for a pro-worker image board, then he becomes a bougie trying to use migrants as a scape goat
which one he currently is seemingly depends on whats most convenient for the current poster
>>2815224We don't have to pretend that there's no reactionaries in the working class bro.
>>2815224doing tailorism in the big 26 brooooo
>>2815232
How do you know it was dangerous in all cases? How do you know that they didn’t change their perspective once ran over? How do you know that testimonies about them being ran over by a reckless driver weren’t just lies either done out of spite or because they were under the influence of spice and other drugs?
Most of all, how can you be sure regarding its prevalence?
Those young teenagers knew not to jaywalk in strange streets. Yet they did. So you’d just be excusing them if you didn’t held them accountable for their actions.
I know I’ll get a lot of flare for going against the grain, but still, the situation is a lot more nuanced than anyone in Britain is willing to give credit for, especially the prohibitionists who produced the theory for gammons to apply the praxis with. Not excusing the crashers, but based on the data, it’s clear that it’s more of a driving incompetance issue more than “industrial +1 gorillion deaths” chuds often shout in a hysterical manner. Regardless, we can’t let ourselves fall for idealism when it comes to this issue. Nor should we let ourselves ignore the main issue, which is one of poverty and socio-economic conditions, as trite as it sounds.
And once again, bracing for the mass triggering in 3… 2… 1…
>>2815237
Sounds like you're the triggerred one, puritan.
>>2815246
He clearly doesn't read replies. His "points" are proven bunk because you can just replace it by drunk driving showing how absurd they are.
>>2815232
You realise that you "triggering" people doesn't actually mean you're right, and it might just mean you're an obnoxious prick?
What are we all arguing about now?
I missed the deleted posts.
>>2815264
>>2815262
no, tailorism is when you produce your political opinions based on what the workers already think. so if the workers are homophobic you are homophobic, if the workers want apple juice you want apple juice, in a desperate attempt to become their representative.
>>2815258He was defending child rape, he's a regular troll on here.
>>2815261Replace the drunk driving posts with grooming gangs stuff, you'll get the gist of his argument.
>0 days since purple aki visited this thread
>>2815245
>Was the actual abuse typical or atypical, and is it a consequence of illegalization as it happens with most abuses in the sex industry mostly coming from countries with an unregulated sex industry due to its Prohibitionist policies, or inherent to it?
No. We can analyze countries that have decriminalized/legalized prostitution to see that it's not really a factor. A few things happen, those on the streets are not allowed to work in brothels for various reasons, pushing them even further underground, and due to the fact of the legalized prostitution being easily available it forces the illegal prostitutes into both lower pay and more dangerous conditions with men who for various reasons would prefer to use them than the regulated prostitutes.
inb4 you're retard samefagging as is finally banned.
>>2815265>tailorism is when you produce your political opinions based on what the workers already think.and we must never ever ever do this, we cannot make concessions to the working class.
>>2815278If you want to do focus group politics you'd be really into the labour party.
Wont someone stand up for the most oppressed demographic of our era, pedophiles?
Labour party wouldn't have spent 30 years trying to paint itself as the pro-migrant pro-multiculturalism party if they were into focus group politics lmao
>>2815282Unironically this
>>2815278Does it even exist anymore? I thought most of ‘em either became lumpenised, died off from overdoses and suicide, or evolved into pensioners.
>>2815280
Drunk drivers are sent to prisons, Pedophiles are given political office.
I can name you hundred of a pedos in powers, can you can even one drunk driver ?
>>2815051They are fomorians.
>>2815158Would have not would of
>>2815298the ruling class socialized by raping children, the working class socializes by drunk driving over bourgeois kids !
Resources:
https://archive.is/VzwkEhttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Commercial_and_online_sexual_exploitationhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/943955/Characteristics_of_group-based_child_sexual_exploitation_in_the_community__Literature_review.pdfThe “abuse” early on is consensual and largely unracialised. So we have to ask why it is that the mainstream press and even much of the left here has succumbed to racialised narratives about “gangs” that typically wouldn’t be used if the men in question were white?
https://www.crimejusticejournal.com/article/view/766https://socialistworker.co.uk/in-depth/background-check/rochdale-child-sexual-exploitation/https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/02/continuing-to-racialise-child-sexual-abuse/https://irr.org.uk/article/asian-grooming-gangs-media-state-and-the-far-right/One point…. let's look at the "grooming" if the far-right and mainstream are complaining about "political correctness". Because the process by which the girls were determined to be victims, or rape victims, was itself politically correct, and misappropriated.
And besides, how come so much noise is made about “brown man bad” alongside a constant barrage of race-essentialist rhetoric, but not a single inquiry is done about the dysfunctional households those underage women come from, especially where single motherhood predominates?
So little attention is paid to it. Perhaps because child poverty here is considered a non-issue despite being one of the main drivers for prostitution, juvenile or not. Really makes you think 🤔
>>2815145one could say they are not true scotsmen
>>2815299Sounds more like the kind of unserious gossip the lumpen tell among themselves, no different than early 20th century gossips among the Euro-lumpen about shadowy Jewish men tempting Aryan fraus into sexual vice or some other low-brow shit like that.
Like, what’s even the evidence for your claims beyond: “I made it the fuck up”?
>>2815311https://www.justice.gov/epsteinthousands of files, ready for you to read
>>2815302>Some gay politician who was just buddy with Epstein, with no proof he ever had sex with a prostieReally weak example if you ask me, especially since it’s just guilt-by-association.
>>2815316You still can find a single drunk driver politician despite them being much more common then child rapists.
Odd isn't it ? Prohibitionist.
>>2815319Dude, you’re just spazzing out now.
>>2815224the reform voter is sometimes working class, sometimes a pensioner, sometimes bougie, sometimes "middle class" (e.g. worker but comfortable) or "upper class", sometimes lumpen/underclass but always, everywhere, a fucking loser.
it is only because of britain's caste system that we "working classify" a group who have their loserness in common, and "middle classify" greens who are far more worker-centered (in terms of having less pensioners and bourgeoisie), simply because they aren't culturally graceless.
>>2815326Can't awnser the damn question, puritan.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/may/16/uk-and-france-extend-one-in-one-out-small-boats-pilot-scheme-until-octoberLooks like the UK will team up with France to fight traffickers with trafficking of their own. It’ll be like the corsairs all over again!
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-government-scrap-planned-rise-202158368.htmlOur dear comrade Starmer has scrapped plans to hike fuel taxes.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/uk-finishes-last-in-eurovision-2026-5HjdZHK_2/Not sure wgaf, but r island was placed last in the Eurovision contest, with Slavs winning once again.
>>28153321 Point lmfao, the boycott really hurt them now didn't it.
>>2815329>Can't awnser (sic) the damn question, puritanBruh, you can’t come up with any western, let alone English, politician who is in the SOR. Ofc I’m not gonna fall for your bait.
But hey, given how low the standards are here due to pedophobic brainrot, here’s my “evidence”:
https://www.ranker.com/list/politicians-with-duis/ranker-news >>2815337Americans !
Typical Yankee nonsense.
>>2815278we cannot and should not make concessions to stupidity, whether that's the past 100 years of the actual british working class being wedded to the world's shittiest labour party, or the more recent phenomenon of a small late-middle-aged chunk of it deciding that civilization should be burned to the ground because they've got a fetish for the abstract idea of dying in a war and watching authority figures beat up children for opposing that notion.
>>2815283they never actually did this, which is why they're fucked. Blair and his cronies always pandered to reactionary sentiment while trying to split the difference with neoliberal economic necessity, which was the dumbest of all possible moves. Labour candidates ran with leaflets like this and then wonder why cunts voted for the BNP.
if they'd painted themselves as a pro-immigrant pro-multiculturalism party, they'd currently be on 35% of the vote. it is precisely because they have pandered to reactionaries openly that they're dead. a smart party - and i'm meeting you half way here - a smart party would've advanced exactly labour's current immigration policies, for example, but would've really played up how much they love immigrants and refugees and simply denied that they were making the system more anti-immigration. boom, net emigration (satisfying those totally legitimate concerns from reform voters) and woke rhetroic (satisfying nice liberals). that, plus throwing the cass review in the bin and rail nationalization and keir starmer would be remembered as better than blair but worse than wilson. but no, stupid cunt mcsweeney thought that prick voice paraphrasing enoch powell was a vote winner and here we are.
>>2815357The Labour Party ever since Blair has been a disaster. Instead of going back to its roots as a socdem party attempting to do genuine socialism, it ended up being a neolib party trying to pander to everyone only to alienate everybody. At this point, leftists in Britain should accept the concept of continuous struggle like their Spanish and Italian counterparts do, recalibrate, and just assert their own identity platform and discuss ideas like immigration in their own terms instead of going at this futile quest to pander to the reactionaries.
Or in other words, play with the cards you’re dealt with, don’t try to chase after a deck you’ll never have anyway.
>>2814646most people believe the monarchy brings more revenue than they cost in taxes. (This is of course not true, because we could abolish the institution and tourists would still visit the buildings. Just look at Versailles.)
>>2815547So funny that people think this while the country with the most tourists in the world chopped their king's head off.
>>2815549England beheaded its king 144 years before France.
Is there anyone more pathetic than small boat iranians who went on the tommy robinson march? I get how they have radicalised but jesus christ the people in that crowd tried to kill you two years ago.
Also saw a funny explicitly zionist blairite saying "liberals need to work with iranians we want the same thing!" and all the iranians saying they want to murder liberals.
>>2815549>A British republic would still receive tourists<UHHHH NO ACKSHUALLY RETARD A BRITISH REPUBLIC WOULD STILL RECEIVE TOURISTSwhy are they like this?
Are the immigrants really that bad or is it just RW schizophrenia? What are some legit bad shit they did?
>>2815582No the UK is just in a process of social collapse but its easier to post about johnny foreigners doing degenerate shit than your own ethnos. White guy masturbates on a train doesn't end up all over twitter, a brown person does it and its proof why we must genocide the darkies NOW. Shit's bad, but its bad for everyone all over.
>>2815582The criminal migrants are mostly the unauthorised ones anyway, so its to be expected. I feel bad for the BAME people in our country who are brought down with their reputation.
>>2815577Every Iranian in the diaspora is a raging Zionist
I've never seen an Iranian loyalist in the west
reminder that shithole constituencies going reform is mostly a compositional effect.
e.g. the people voting reform in 2024 are not the people who voted labour in 1979. those who voted in 1979 voted tory.
>>2815593The largest group of illegals are iranians and they are the ones marching with Tommy Robinson…
>>2815603Nah this isn't true. Even most of the miners bought houses and are now "fuck you got mine" boomers who hate their woke grandchildren.
>>2815606it's true, no-one ever marches in the Durham Miners' Gala each year. Holographic crowds.
>>2815611>Union flag taken down and replaced with a soviet flagVgh….what could have been….
Ok, who wants to bet whether Starmer will pussy out and resign, or go down but not before gulag’ing & purging the entirety of the ChudIntern’s British branch?
>>2815581maybe he was just agreeing? chill
>>2815630And when you point out to them that Israel itself was founded upon terrorism (especially against British authorities) and how it largely lives off by engaging in terrorism, I bet said locals will either repeat the same talking points over and over like bots or make up some BS reason to still hate on Palestine because they associate it with their caricaturised image of the “left” that they have.
As one German comedian said, the UK is the Florida of Europe. Truer words have never been spoken. Although I’d go further and say the British isles is wigger Europe.
>>2815357>if they'd painted themselves as a pro-immigrant pro-multiculturalism party, they'd currently be on 35% of the vote.No they wouldn’t, they’d be even less electable than they currently are, multiculturalism and being pro-migrant is completely dead in the water, the pro-migrant green wave of hypothetical pro-migrant labour defectors never materialised
>a smart party would've advanced exactly labour's current immigration policies, for example, but would've really played up how much they love immigrants and refugees and simply denied that they were making the system more anti-immigration.No this would lead to an absolutely massive disaster as a increasingly anti migrant working class revolt against the labor party because they still think the party’s still pro-migrant
The Australian Labour Party already tried exactly this dumb idea under Paul Keating from 1993-1996 and it resulted in him and their Labour Party getting bum raped by the conservatives for a decade because their voter base saw them all as class traitors
The only thing pretending to be pro-migrant while actually being anti-migrant achieves is completely alienating your own voterbase
>>2815639they timesed their number of seats by 5 in this election bro
>>2815644Reform got 3x the total of the greens bro, lmao.
>>2815639Keating won the seemingly unwinnable 1993 election and lost in 1996 after Labor had been in power since 1983, you fucking dope. the UK equivalent of Keating is Brown, who said sorry for calling a bigoted woman a bigot and ran that cunt Phil Woolas with his stupid illegal racist leaflets and get this: he lost the eminently winnable 2010 election with just 28% of the vote.
it may have escaped your notice but 35% is a bad vote share. i am not saying that Labour have a path to 55% of the vote if they are (rhetorically) pro migrant, i am saying they have a path to survival. if the ALP alienated their traditional supporters, they picked up new "middle class" ones to compensate (they just won re-election, something Labour haven't done since 2005!!), UK Labour's vote base has also changed over time, and now Labour are alienating all their supporters in the hopes of winning over 2019 Tories and Reform voters. net result? more 2019 Tory voters died than voted Labour in 2024, and Labour's vote count and share were lower than in 2019. it has only sank since.
if you think being pretending to be pro migrant while actually being anti migrant is bad, you should see what pretending to be anti migrant and actually being anti migrant does to a party with a vote base consisting of educated people of all age groups and young progressives in particular. (Labour: 16%)
PS the recent SNP victory shows just how little you have to do to keep progressives on side as a socdem party. literally just don't be comically evil and you can be completely and utterly useless! doing anything else is a choice, a dumb choice! >>2815650>Keating won the seemingly unwinnable 1993 election and lost in 1996 after Labor had been in power since 1983He won 93 by cutting migration rates in half and keeping his mouth shut about how great migrants and multiculturalism are, it was after he won that election he started the pro-migrant secretly anti-migrant shit that cost him the 96 election and alienated the working class from the party.
You can be anti migrant and keep your mouth shut about the issue
You can be anti-migrant publicly and anti-migrant in policy
But being pro-migrant publicly but being anti-migrant in policy is a setup for disaster
>>2815645Ok, and? They've been getting promoted non stop by the media for years now. Next election Labour will do even worse and Greens will do even better, eventually there will be a tipping point where people abandon Labour en masse. Obviously Greens weren't going to beat reform this time when the somewhat left wing vote is split between Labour, Greens, and Lib Dems (I even saw people advocating tactical voting for the Tories against Reform which is just deranged)
>>2815655>Ok, and?The point being it’s easy to do a 5x when your going from dogshit to dogshit, the imagined green wave of hypothetical pro-migrant labor defectors never materialised, the Tories and lib dems both got more seats than the greens
>>2815660they obviously did materialise, Greens were the second biggest seat gainer. Tories and Libdems held more seats than Greens yeah but Tories lost tons and Libdems didn't gain nearly as much as Greens
>>2815653An overdetermined just-so story (no mention of the recession? Don't think that had an impact on numbers?) that skims over the bulk of my argument and does not engage at all with the British examples.
(And a lot of good "being anti migrant" did for the population figures: Australia's population in 1983 was 15.3 million, 1993 it was 17.7, 1996 it was 18.4, 2007 it was 21.1, and today it's 27.7. 10 million people up in 30 years!)
>>2815655>>2815653See
>>2815372But yh, I would agree keeping mum about muh immigraysion would be better than being vocal about it as far as we go, considering that it’s already polarising and doesn’t do any favor with the current leftist voter base in the UK, especially the FPTP system means people here are obsessed with winning back gammons to their side even tho the main reason immigration is such a big topic to begin with is because most people are broke.
Also, see this:
https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country?crossBreak=1824 >>2815666Yh, the Greens’ victory does make me wonder if them chudding out on immigration and the trans question would have gotten them more or less voters than now. Thing is, the Greens got strong support from London liberals, so that does compromise them since that means many of their economic populist policies most likely won’t make the light of the day. Tough spot, especially as most of the British working class is being lumpenised, with the middle class joining their ranks as well, whilst the upper class is turning into Britain’s version of the American middle class. The whole country is literally undergoing downward mobility.
>>2815666>(no mention of the recession? Don't think that had an impact on numbers?It no doubt had some impact but the time of the election the recession was basically over
>(And a lot of good "being anti migrant" did for the population figures: Australia's population in 1983 was 15.3 million, 1993 it was 17.7, 1996 it was 18.4, 2007 it was 21.1, and today it's 27.7. 10 million people up in 30 years!)It’s complicated
There’s a rather dishonest strategy I didn’t mention in the last post: you can also get away with being openly anti-immigrant while being pro-immigrant in policy if you’re willing to be be publically and vocally anti-immigrant enough (and anti-refugee). The problem is that eventually the voters start looking around and see more and more migrants pouring in despite this anti-migrant rhetoric and the whole thing collapses and your party completely falls apart
The Australian labor party’s pro-migrant rhetoric from 1994-1996 alienated the working class to the point it allowed Australia’s conservatives to essentially walk into power by pretending to be anti-immigrant while secretly being pro-immigrant and ramping up immigration rates, the conservatives used this strategy, leveraging the fact that a openly pro-immigrant labor party couldn’t do anything about it to get 2 seperate decade long runs in power but like what’s happened with the Tories in England, they simply ended up importing too many people for their voter base to ignore and the house of cards has collapsed in the face of albos labor party promising to cut migration rates in half(but not really which is now causing labor problems) at the last election
>>2815653it's more like they won because the labor party throughout most of the 90s was a party for the middle class intellectuals and the like, with a fair bit of workers support, whereas the liberal party was the white collar, petty bourgeois party
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRtrYkSJ/
>Be a chud>Believes UK is unfair>Denies poverty is widespread, says suffering should be part of life, aristocrats owning more wealth than the bottom half is le good>Call any suggestion to remedy wealth inequality “communism”At this pace, the UK will have a competency crisis more than a demographic one LOL
But honestly, given how the TFRs of migrants has converged with that of long-term British residents, I think human extinction is more likely than the great replacement (assuming it’s real)
>>2815660you do not understand how FPTP voting works.
let's say a seat is 40% reform, 55% labour, and 5% green.
now let's say labour are total shit in government. 25% of labour voters defect to the greens, 5% defect to reform.
result: 45% reform, 30% green, 25% labour. seat goes reform - oh no!
but if you think this proves that lab > reform switchers are a bigger problem than lab > green switchers, you're actually fucking mental. even if labour regains 100% of lab > reform defectors, it's tied with the greens as the main anti-reform party while being seen as basically reform anyway! that's a death-spiral situation! (see: scotland, where people suddenly realized you don't have to vote scottish labour to stop the Tories and indeed, that voting SNP is a safer bet. "red tories out", i believe they put it…)
see also picrel: 18% of 2024 labour voters dumped them for copying reform's rhetoric on immigration, against 16% who dumped them for being too soft on immigration. worse still, 22% of those who considered but rejected labour think they're copying reform while only 10% think they're too soft.
>>2815689i take the point about opportunistically deploying anti-migrant rhetoric, but i think you underprice how asymmetric concern about immigration policy is and overprice how important the working classes are to election victory. (labour won the working class in every election from the 1900s to 2019, but they didn't win the majority of elections by far.)
also: labor didn't do that badly in 1998 (it won the popular vote and the TPP vote!) which is pretty impressive for a party that had just spent a decade in power, even if they were up against that cunt howard.
anyway: whether a party has to be opportunistically anti-migrant to win an election is a very different question to whether a nominally socdem party in power polling 16% should tilt right in pursuit of people who mostly didn't even vote labour in 2024 (the first election at which better off people were more likely to vote labour than worse off people), or tilt left in a desperate attempt to remain the main center-left party after being wiped out at the next election.
i resist the working/middle class framing device, but granting it for devil's advocacy purposes: if labour have become a middle class luvvie party, trying to alienate the luvvies and win back the working class has proven an utterly moronic strategy. it has not won back the working class but it has alienated all but the most comfortable members of the middle class, and even they'll flip lib-dem when they realize they don't want to waste their votes.
i would analyze the relative success of the antipodean labo(u)r parties being that they've accepted that they are to some extent "middle class" parties and they just get on with it instead of trying to
shake off their own supporters. there's even an argument that making the middle classes natural labour voters was blair's whole project - but now that it's been delivered and it turns out the middle classes are socially progressive, they hate it!
>>2815879>the great replacement (assuming it’s real)fun fact, the concept's origin was literally a zionist projecting.
>>2815885while i'm at it
the best lab > reform defector score is in Scotland (14%), but Scotland is a little misleading because a chunk of voters vote on a nationalist/unionist axis. even then, more labour voters went
SNP than reform!
meanwhile in wales, only 5% of labour's obliteration was due to lab>reform switchers against a ludicrous
41% to plaid. (even the dead tory party didn't lose that big a chunk of its vote!)
>>2815879>At this pace, the UK will have a competency crisis more than a demographic one LOLIt already does lol. The government can't achieve ANYTHING and all the MPs/ministers are using LLM slop to come up with their ideas/execution
>>2815671>the Greens’ victory does make me wonder if them chudding out on immigration and the trans question would have gotten them more or less voters than now.Obviously less? That's like saying Reform should say they're going to rejoin the EU to get votes
>>2815912This, the people that want to vote exclusively for those ALREADY have a party, you're not stealing them by acting chuddy, they already think you're a "woke leftist" party so they're convinced you're lying to them whereas you may lose your own base.
>>2815879If the global birthrate collapse continue appace and automation still isnt widespread governments will compete with one another to get more people in, not less.
Unnatractive countries like LATAM, eastern europe and most of Asia will be economicaly devastated.
>>2815898looks like my previous take that the new non-voter who now votes reform only really holds significant truth in scotland.
>>2815921>>2815912To borrow an American phrase, people are often one-issue voters, and these issues are always partisan, marginal issues. The idea of ticking 99 check boxes but leaving 1 makes the whole difference, since people largely only care about the 1 unticked check box. This is also why you can be a raving tory, but so long as you are anti-immigrant, you get much of the working class vote, because you don't get votes in being logical, you get votes being rhetorical.
Would you betray Keir for a million dollars?
>>2815979i wouldn't even do it for 30 pieces of silver
>>2815979My love and belief in Keir Starmer is worth the wealth of the world entire.
>>2815979I'd do it for free who the fuck needs to be paid to kill Kid Starver?
>>2815997Do not use my flag when i am posting. Thank you.
>>2815997>>2815998What's going on here?
>>2816000>What's going on here?Nothing. Back to work!
>>2815954“Well, the issue with automation is that:
- Automation is only useful to capital if it increases profitability relative to human labor. Much like replacing workers with a water mill, a capitalist will only automate production if it lowers labor costs, increases productivity, or gives a competitive advantage. If profit margins remain effectively the same with or without automation, then its widespread adoption would make little sense economically.
- But widespread automation creates another contradiction. Under capitalism, value is rooted in socially necessary labor time, while wages also provide the purchasing power needed to realize profit through consumption. If entire sectors become fully automated, then less living labor is involved in production, meaning fewer workers are being paid wages. This creates a crisis tendency: the system increasingly eliminates the very source of both value and mass consumer demand. Goods may become cheaper to produce, but the question becomes who can actually buy them, and how value itself is measured when labor is progressively removed from production.
That’s why automation shouldn’t be treated as a panacea. Automation under capitalism would deepen it’s contradiction, which is probably why it won’t see widespread adoption beyond the arts and entertainment, which is why the biggest impact of AI on the economy has been in the entertainment and artistic sectors, as well as journalism.
>>2816015Here's your proletariat guys.
Qanon schizos, drunken football hooligans, AI slop fans, Iranian monarchists. Every shade of self radicalised council flat Hitlerite, all backed by billionaires and crypto donations.
There's 100,000s, if not millions of these people. What is to be done?
>>2816032Embrace the "middle class" who are for the most part normal people, particularly the "lower middle class" who are by any sane measure really the working class in a service economy
>>2816015>These are the people who are about to hand an investment banker a 500 seat majoritybongland is truly cursed
>>2816032>proletariatlumpenproletariat*
I refuse to believe 50<% of these people are in employment - and the pensioners speak for themselves.
>>2815957You can't be all things to all people. Look at Starmer and his island of strangers speech, he was more unpopular than ever afterwards. There's a reason why we have the camps we have in this country and why say conservative socialism never caught on, yes people might fucking hate immigrants as their primary issue but that doesn't mean they're going to accept the rest of the green party platform just for that one issue, when they have plenty of other options who are 100% right wing.
>>2816043This. If we can pick up a few votes from Gammon by offering more funding for their mum's care home then great but we can't base our politics around these people, trying to desperately chase them just puts off the actual left
>>2816048Just let bongland and Amerikkka collapse. After Reagan and Thatcher these parasite honkies don't deserve to have a civilization anymore. Burn it all down they're all retarded cucks for businessmen. It is impossible to get an Anglo-Saxon to stop sucking the cocks of millionaires.
>>2816048>conservative socialismIts never been suggested, but in any case, the working class prefer conservatism to socialism in general. Class politics is dead; everything is about culture war.
>>2816050Ok great, glad you got that out of your system, now do you have anything actually useful to say?
>>2816051I'm referring to say Galloway and the various reactionary communist parties in the UK
>>2816052The Angloid Communist seethes in outrage because he knows he cannot defend his people being mindless slaves to capitalism, but if he were to accept the simple truth that his people are brainless idiots incapable of accepting Communism, it would call into question his entire life's work "organizing" "agitating" etc.
politics as personality theory stays winning
>>2816053Gazzaway is mates with the muzzies though, and tozza robbo tells me that israel is the last stand for the west.
>>2816056Now here's the deeper question; does personality determine class, or does class determine personality?
>>2816015There's something wrong with that cursed Island.
>>2816043
>Embrace the "middle class" who are for the most part normal peopleA a lot of those "middle class" people have class anxiety, and are either depoliticized, indoctrinated Blairites, or political weaklings and wave riders.
>>2816055Angloid socialism is fine, people are just mad that in a service economy that means being popular with people who look like Sam Kriss and used to read Sam Kriss until he was cancelled instead of being popular with Welsh coal miners who haven't existed since 1989 and were really on the way out since the 1960s but given second wind by 2 oil crises.
Our conservatives similarly blew themselves up as the party of the respectable but thrifty bourgeois when they decided to indulge dad's army mongs.
>>2816055You're probably an Anglo anyways, pesh off
>>2816057Well I mean that's my point, you can't win, even if you're conservative on social issues you aren't racist enough against Muslims, and so on. You have to be totally hateful and think British 'culture' is an alley behind the chippy filled with empty beer cans and cigarette butts
>>2816059>A a lot of those "middle class" people have class anxiety, and are either depoliticized, indoctrinated Blairites, or political weaklings and wave riders.Yeah sure but on the whole they're a lot more reasonable than the average rightoid who wants to set hotels on fire
>>2816059Nobody is a Blairite anymore and no ideology is worse understood. And so far as it's used to mean socially liberal economically neoliberal, it has never existed. Blairism was never that.
>>2816062I remember when the brexiteers were citing the fact that we dont use real newspapers in chippies anymore as a reason why we have to leave the EU and deregulate society - what are these spurious and uninteresting exclamations except the strained longing for something immaterial and ungraspable? Fact is, people dont know what the fuck they want; they havent got a clue - but the problem is that we give political responsibility to the plebs when they dont deserve it. Lets face it; universal suffrage is a mistake, and we need to qualify who is able to hold representational power in this country. What I see at these marches is a mob; a riotous cesspit of drunk ogres itching to paki bash. The country cannot be put in their hands, like how it was put in the hands of Hitler.
>>2816064>Yeah sure but on the whole they're a lot more reasonable than the average rightoid who wants to set hotels on fire100%. I don't disagree. Right wingers are always worse. Most of them seem to be animated by evil desires, I can't fathom.
>>2816064An increasingly dwindling middle-class in the centres of the big cities are not going to save anyone. If this is who you're going to rely on you may as well just give up.
I HOPE we petition to join back into the EU and they bugger us off. They see the writing on the wall.
>>2816078Join and then leave again in 20 years.
Scotland, Wales, and NI to the EU, England will be the 51st state of the US. The City of London, like in the Roman Walls, will be shittier Monaco or Luxembourg.
>>2816085With or without the gambling ?
>>2816087You’ll incur a fee of 2 quid for every step you take in the city if your Paddy Play balance is below 30 quid
>>2816073Literally how? It's the left leaning 'middle class' that is growing, the feral gammon are the ones dying out from alcoholism, smoking, diet too rich in fat, etc etc.
>>2816078They'd less us back in but not with the pound, we won't get the sweetheart deals we had before
>>2816073They're growing, we consider everyone with a degree "middle class" and higher education has only expanded. Meanwhile reactionaries are literally dying off.
Would like to remind /leftybritpol/ that the EU is neoliberal at heart and would limit our ability to nationalise industry
>>2816108they also ban communists from running, death to the EU
>>2816149AKEL literally elected a president to try and unify Cyprus and it was Turkey who fucked that whole process, not the EU
>>2816103>>2816107They probably mean the proportion of people whose income puts them in the income bracket informally considered to be “middle class”, which is obviously shrinking as Britain is getting poorer and poorer due to the 2008 crisis, Brexit, the pandemic and the lockdowns, and now both the Ukrainian and the gulf energy shocks, the latter of which is the biggest energy crisis in all history exceeding even those of the 1970s.
If Britain was rich, emigration wouldn’t be at an all-time high.
>>2816108True, EU-communism is retarded since the current EU constitution on private property would make it nigh-impossible to have an actual communist society within the EU:
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/human-rights/your-fundamental-rights-eu/know-your-rights/freedoms/right-property_en >>2816181bros i hate living in the butthurt belt
>>2816248right wing of capital detected
>>2816255I have no idea who either of those people are
>>2816391First one speaks for itself.
Second caller:
>I prefer Rupert Lowe to Nigel Farage; we need to go back 300 years; Only Fools and Horses didn't have this woke nonsense; black and brown people aren't English; vaccines are bad for you.It was just a sewer of slop emptied out at intervals. The guy admits that he has fallen down rabbitholes and fell out of touch with people since covid, but doesn't realise that his isolation has made him schizophrenic.
>>2816175>They probably mean the proportion of people whose income puts them in the income bracket informally considered to be “middle class”, which is obviously shrinking as Britain is getting poorer and poorer due to the 2008 crisis, Brexit, the pandemic and the lockdowns, and now both the Ukrainian and the gulf energy shocks, the latter of which is the biggest energy crisis in all history exceeding even those of the 1970s. they're clearly not actually talking about that though, they're talking about 'the mythical white working class'
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