>>2814597I don't think its controversial or contentious, but its still important to highlight the theoretical importance; racism is international, while nationalism is extremely ecclectic. S Poster for example, is a supporter of English Nationalism, yet is presumably an anti-racist. The only other real nationalist I've seen is Oswald Mosley, who was not in any sense a tory, yet toryism has subsumed nationalism.
>>2814646People liked the Queen, and lots of people celebrated the Coronation of the King, but no one really cares. The most traffic he gets is hate from the right, since he is tolerant of Islam.
>>2814609anything can be learned, but institutionalized education is dogshit and drives curious people away from the subjects that are imposed on them. children learn by playing around with things, by showing them the possibilities and the practical applications and generally by having fun with it and indulging their curiosity.
being forced to do art in school put back my abilities 15 years.
>>2814668>Aliens in Doncaster You don't say
>>2814832
>Sinn Fein
They are pathetic for selling out on the armed struggle, they run occupied Ireland for Westminster, they think that the prots are a seperate nation rather than settler colonists. They will never vote away British rule. However they are obviously the best of the three by far.
>SNP
An effective nationalist party. Also they are just liberals who want to join the EU, aren't effectively anti-imperialist and are really corrupt. I don't know much more about them tho so I will put as number 2.
>Plaid Cymru
Were nazi aligned in the 30s, then became really boring ultra-pacifists who were against any illegal activity and the party leadership squashed the young members of the party who wanted radicalism in the 60s. Basically extreme cucks. They are also a pro-EU party and not even a strongly pro-independence one, they will never deliver us freedom, they are a liberal party with a landlord as its leader. They also say they are a socialist party in the manifesto lol. But they will never get anything done and they have been a bad thing for Welsh radicalism so I put them at number 3. Still think its cool they won tho.
>>2815051they regard the UDA and other organizations as fundamentally good, even if they make the mistake of killing your own brother, as long as northern ireland isn't handed to those filthy cat-o-lics, it doesn't matter for them
>>2815027this is based, but i dont understand why you'd nationalize steel (a sector which is generally less monopolizing) before water??? or even finish nationalizing rail????
>>2815082it's meant to send a message
>>2815084yeah it's probably quantitatively easier to nationalize even if less efficient, not much left of british steel these days
>>2815082because steel is needed to make shells and water and passenger rail isn't.
(even though iirc our steel is so mediocre we'd probably import chinese steel to overpay BAE to make us shells that don't work. defense spending is a racket. )
Can anyone confirm the veracity of this report?:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/05/tommy-robinsons-unite-the-kingdom-march-goes-nowhere/Also, I think worries about surveillance and the justified concerns about two-tier policing when it comes to Zionism in Chud island might explain the low numbers behind the Nakba 76 protests. After all, it’s not like the subhuman British reactionaries have to worry about censorship as much since they’re massive Jew-poles with anti-immigrationist brainrot.
Get it? They have schlongs stuck on their mouths and bottoms, forming a pole/stick made of Jews and a shabbos goy. A Jew-pole!
>>2815051Tbh, you could say the same thing about the lumpen who support kosher right figures like Tommy Robinson, as well as feminazis like the zio-TERF Posie Parker as many of them often talk and behave with full hatred and resentment resembling that of the average kahanist or azovite, as if they’re devoid of any human emotion like empathy and compassion. You’ll only see them being angry and hateful all the time, and only find joy in doing evil shit, and sad only when one of their own gets hurt. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be white people as much as members of their own cult.
Ultimately, the question is: Are they like this because they’re broke, or because over the centuries they have adopted the same bigotry and nasty instincts of the British aristocracy when it comes to tyrannising people they deem as their lessers or enemies?
Because, in some sense, it reminds me of how Dalits of India, despite being discriminated against by the Brahmin and others of the upper castes, often adopt the same violent and nasty bigotry as that of the upper castes both to feel secure in their position as “superior to the lesser other” (whatever said “other” is. Could be blacks, Muslims, etc…) as well as due to cultural osmosis and normalisation of tribalistic and vindictive hatred, a hatred indistinguishable from that of ancient Jewish tribes fighting against each other for petty reasons.
Which goes back to the question: Is Zionism a class marker? I think yes because, if you notice who Zionists often happen to be, more often than not it’s the bourgeois (e.g., J K Rowling) or people who identify themselves with the upper class (e.g., Richard Hanania), whereas pro-Palestine people are either from the prole or identify themselves with it (e.g., much of the broader non-liberal left). Considering how the white British lumpen identify themselves more with the very British upper class that despises them, I think anyone can do the math here.
Ofc, this is simplistic, but this is a trend that I couldn’t help but notice online, especially as time goes on.
>>2815102I don't believe in comparing Ukrainians to zionists and terfs as they are actually being slaughtered for unjust reasons and arent being helped much by their "allies".
While zionists are being attacked for good reasons and terfs arent being attacked they are just psychotic.
>>2815102Id's say it's far beyond those kind of people, even you average Tommy Robinson fan cares about their families, like if Robinson killed their brother, I don't think they'd like him very much, lots of people are hatefull toward strangers for no good reason, but being hateful to the point that you're willing to be friend with those who killed the ones you loved for no reason is inhumane.
I think people underestimate how hateful unionists are, in 2001 there was a catholic elementary girl's school in a protestant neighborhood, unionists, alleging that the parents could be IRA members, decided to harass the little girls, including hurling insults at them, throwing bottle of piss, show pornography to them, some guy even threw a bomb at them.
This was celebrated by the unionist community at large. I think the only equivalent I can think of are Israeli Settlers. And honestly, I don't think there is such hatred from the British aristocracy, I'd say it stems more from the fact that these people have nothing in their lives, their cause is meaningless, the people in chose name they fight are giving them absolutly nothing, really it's a very sad movement in a way, thousands wasting their life for absolutly nothing.
>>2815125ironically enough if the entirety of ulster was given to ireland right now, they'd be treated better than the UK currently treats them
>>2815132
Most isms wind up positioning their subjects against their ideals.
e.g. feminists (especially TERFy ones) hate women ("handmaidens") for failing to live up to the ideal of feminism, workerists hate the shelf-stacking coffee-baristaing working class of the service economy for not being coal miners or f-35 manufacturers, many racists actually hate white liberals more than ethnic minorities, etc.
even in benign forms: i admit that as a scottish nationalist sympathizer i think scottish unionists craven and pathetic to the extent that i don't really consider most of them as scottish at all. i quite obviously position the existing population of scotland against scotland the ideal. a position made funnier by the fact i really do believe scottishness is residence+identity based, apparently with the rider that being born here actually means stricter standards are applied than if you immigrate…
>>2815158Jimmy Savile LITERALLY got away with it
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8257elr81o
>Henry Nowak, 18, from Chafford Hundred, Essex, was killed as he walked back from a night out in Southampton on 3 December.
>A trial at Southampton Crown Court heard that alleged attacker Vickrum Digwa, 23, was filmed by Nowak carrying a shastar – the Punjabi word for weapon or knife – which had a 21cm (8in) blade.
>Jurors heard the attack was not witnessed, but neighbours heard Nowak say he had been stabbed and was dying, before trying to escape by climbing over a fence.
>A blood trail indicated he had already been fatally wounded, the court heard.
>The prosecution alleged Digwa then "chose to aggressively pursue him".
>Footage played in court captured an exchange in which Nowak said: "Innit bad man, what bad man. You're a bad man, say you're a bad man, go on", to which Digwa replied: "I am a bad man".
>The video ended moments later.
>Lobbenberg said: "He didn't seek help for the man he had injured with his sizeable knife, instead he accused him of being a racist and being drunk."
>He added that police initially handcuffed Nowak and started giving him first aid when he then collapsed.https://news.sky.com/story/student-stabbed-to-death-with-extremely-large-knife-after-night-out-with-football-team-in-southampton-court-told-13543982
>Mr Lobbenberg said that Digwa denied stabbing Mr Nowak at the scene. He also claimed that "he had been racially abused and attacked by a drunken man".
>"Henry protested he hadn't attacked Vickrum Digwa, and he had been stabbed," the prosecutor added.Coppas may have put a guy bleeding to death in handcuffs because the guy that stabbed him called him racist
>>2815158if he was those things, he would be the ultimate boogeyman for the rest of time
>>2815160How can you even talk to people like this? They're so fucking stupid. Why not go after the police for doing nothing about it for so long (probably partly because there were police officers complicit) rather than 'da left'?
>>2815163>Coppas may have put a guy bleeding to death in handcuffs because the guy that stabbed him called him racistBro police put everyone in handcuffs, not an uncommon thing. Not saying it's right but yet again there's no proof that 'da left' is behind this
>>2815175I literally don't understand their point - are they claiming Saville was exposed for his crimes because he was an oppressed white man? Its schizophrenia.
Reform voters are on average low status people who invest their personal identity in stupid stuff like their nationality. They lash out because their relative social status is falling. Immigrants are a problem not because of any economic factor, but because it stings to know most of your netters would prefer sharing a bus with an illiterate Somalian to sharing one with you.
But this is basically their own fault. In the age of the internet you can invest your self worth in all sorts of good or at least harmful causes, like being right on leftypol.org, and you can divest yourself of stuff like national identity if it makes you cringe. if you choose to fight a rearguard action for tasteless causes you've got nobody to blame but yourself when your status falls. It will keep falling the more you lash out. All Brexit achieved was to knock all of Britain down a peg. Maybe for a moment that was fun for low status losers, but ten years on it hasn't moved the game inside Britain by a single inch.
TERFism is the same game but for middle aged women bitter that transsexuals are cooler than they are and for angry loser men who used to be regarded as progressive just because they weren't religious cranks.
Taste and morality are closer than they'd seem. Bad taste and sadism are almost synonymous.
>>2815175you need a man in a white coat to take them elsewhere
>>2815178It's just being incredibly stupid. If these people are so upset still by the grooming gangs thing, which yeah fair enough is awful but at the same time wasn't it over a decade ago now, why do they attack the left over it, and not the pigs who were actually responsible for doing anything about it? These people actually think the police told their local MP about the gangs and said we need to arrest them and he was like "no… This is all part of the white genocide plan…" so the police couldn't do anything about it.
>>2815182Not taking their side, but the authorities did say they didn't reveal anything because they were scared of being called racist, now of course thats just an excuse by them to justify not doing their jobs, but thats why Reform blames the left for it.
>>2815182>why do they attack the left over it?Because they're clueless. They don't know how to think, only how to feel. Thinking offends them and they will.try to rip out your tongue.
>wasn't it over a decade ago now
its allegedly still going
>why do they attack the left over it
are leftists pro-migrant? if the answers yes then it should be pretty obvious why they blame leftists, if the answers no then its because they've got leftists mixed up with social progressive multiculturalists.
>>2815183How much of a shit do you have to be to actually accept that excuse though? Like it would be reasonable to not do anything about dozens of girls getting raped just because "someone might call me racist"? If you're that much of a fucking pussy you certainly shouldn't be a police officer, they are seriously the most cowardly group on Earth.
When I worked at a hostel we had some pigs come to pick up someone's medication that they'd arrested, they took one look at his room and were like "well it's not on a table so we're not going looking in drawers for it" because of needle stick risk presumably, so I just said I'll do it myself and went and found it. Like ok you don't want to get stuck, maybe just be careful then like we have to? It's not that hard to avoid needles and I'm sure they've had the same training we did, probably a lot more. They're just fucking pussies.
>>2815185True. Some guy made some stupid racist comment on Facebook and I replied to it, he replied to me again with more wrong information, and I replied again to correct it and show how he's wrong, and he just deleted his comments and replied "don't have time to deal with a know it all, bet you're great at parties" or some shit like that, like what a bitch move, you're gonna go post racist filth but you're not even committed enough to defend it against scrutiny? Dickhead.
>>2815186If they have evidence of it ongoing they should go talk to the police.
>>2815187
Insane Neonazi screed. Of course some of the girls were at least partially consenting in a practical sense (legally they have no power to do so) but this this just about the worst take imaginable on this issue. For some people apparently "bash the paki groomers" is too moderate, and they think that we need to bash the young girls for fucking outside their race instead. Even if you're a Nazi that is such an insane uphill struggle to make, it's so much more sensible to portray the girls as the victims they in fact are.
>>2815188>How much of a shit do you have to be to actually accept that excuse though?people accept it as the truth because its probably true, the coppas want above all else to keep the peace so they can do a little work as possible, and are willing to do some perverse stuff like not investigate a pakistan rape gang because they know they'll have to deal with race riots if they look into it and a 1000 man rape gang running around
>>2815191i hope you've said this as a joke
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpvxr7wv74mo>>2815179<Reform voters are on average low status people who invest their personal identity in stupid stuff like their nationality. They lash out because their relative social status is falling. Immigrants are a problem not because of any economic factor, but because it stings to know most of your netters would prefer sharing a bus with an illiterate Somalian to sharing one with you.
<But this is basically their own fault. In the age of the internet you can invest your self worth in all sorts of good or at least harmful causes, like being right on leftypol.org, and you can divest yourself of stuff like national identity if it makes you cringe. if you choose to fight a rearguard action for tasteless causes you've got nobody to blame but yourself when your status falls. >>2815189<like what a bitch move, you're gonna go post racist filth but you're not even committed enough to defend it against scrutiny? Dickhead.If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed against
>>2815188It's less about the cops, the issue was larger then that, it's a systemic failure rather then a purely police one, the far right argues that wokeness has made it impossible to criticise muslims, the actual left wing perspective on it is to see that the girls were from the working class, and therefore were seen as inherently filthy by the authorities in place. But you have to keep in mind that this perspective isn't really shared in the media, who took part in the coverup of the issue, the main interpretation you'll see will be the far right one. Obviously the scandal also plays in xenophobic fears that prexisted it, the incompetance of the British state only added to it.
>>2815191Last time they did the police covered it up.
>>2815198>If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed againstAh yes, we need to return power to the working class (read: pigshit idiots)
>>2815202>Last time they did the police covered it up.Fine, but I'm the one these fucks have put their hands on, not police officers, I've nothing to do with it. They're fucking cowards.
>>2815204To clarify I'm saying right wingers like to pretend that only fat white rightoids that love footie (except there's too many blacks on the team) are the real working class and nobody else, not the working class are actually like that
>>2815189This is the essential point; facts cannot be racist, so how can facts cause someone to become racist? If you have facts, then, you cannot be racist, unless your knowledge is incomplete. When these people think they have a "gotcha" its always best to reply "yes, and" and they will melt by your reasonableness. You'll notice this with so much of the right, who are constantly degensive, and so if you allow them to vent, their defenses drop. If you simply add truth to truth, you get more of what is necessary to understanding. You cannot reach another person by trying to fight with them. Blessed are the peacemakers.
>>2815210
Oh fuck off. Even if we are gonna say that maybe it should be allowed to have sex with under 16s, this certainly was an abusive dynamic and yeah maybe some people will not tell the truth but when it's so many victims you can't just act like they're all lying
>>2815198>If theres ever a workers revolution in britain, the posters here are going to get shot by the same wall the rich are getting executed againstthis is true but not because either of those posters are wrong. the working class are by and large not reform voters.
>>2815207
As far as I understand it, because the ones on the ground thought it was simple speeding as opposed to being le 100 gorillion car murders. Like, even if you think drunk driving is wrong for some reason, you’d have to admit that a lot of the stuff that passes as “common sense” in this topic is either based on hearsay, unverified testimonies from during addicts, apocryphal tales, or unfalsifiable yellow-press journo slop. An example is the “1 gorillion killed English children”, which is based on a dumb extrapolation from a case in one town.
Regarding claims of racism, I’m not so sure that’s completely explanatory. I mean, Britain in the 1960s and 1970s was much more tolerant of drunk driving sex relative to today to the extent that most policemen wouldn’t do shit when it comes to reports of some drivers speeding at 130 miles an hour on a school zone.
In fact, most interviews from the police involved indicate it was less about avoiding charges of racism than it has to do with the fact that they probably saw it as a more nuanced case of car accidents, especially as many of the “children” (underage teenagers really) were repeated jaywalkers.
Which ok, you might say running over jaywalkers is still wrong despite being largely a consequence of their actions. But that wouldn’t exactly the at the meat of the issue, which is the fact that most of those pubescent and underage teenagers came from dysfunctional households where single motherhood is prevalent. So the focus should be on alleviating youth poverty to the best of the state’s ability and either support struggling single moms financially or just discourage single motherhood altogether.
But ofc, can’t have nuance in it. Can we? It’s all “Irish man bad”, “the English working class would be an utopia without le darn P*ddys”, and so on.
But even taking the chuds’ claims for granted, it still wouldn’t excuse the outsized focus out of vibes. Every inquiry done by the government has indicated that the percentage of such cases are far lower than the public imagines, typically below the 5% mark. Even if we do with the “muh underreporting” cope, the same can be said for overall “Drunk Crashers” and thus wouldn’t justify presuming drunk driverz (wtf even is “drunk driving” anyway) cases to be 100 billion as British reactionaries like to believe.
People will call me I’m a drunk driver or whatever, but honestly you guys shouldn’t take mainstream claims at face value and instead use critical thinking on a case-by-case basis. Need I remind you that one of the most prominent accusers turned out to be a false accuser that led some drivers to suicide over her false accusations?:
As for the Emma Watson case, Spiked Online has it covered well enough, and I’d agree with their claims that the inquiry on her was a grift of epic proportions, especially considering how the claims of driving over corpses and engaging in satanic rituals turned out to be BS:
The reform voter is a pathetic working class loser jealous of migrants doing better than him, atleast until insulting them like this starts to look bad for a pro-worker image board, then he becomes a bougie trying to use migrants as a scape goat
which one he currently is seemingly depends on whats most convenient for the current poster
>>2815224We don't have to pretend that there's no reactionaries in the working class bro.
>>2815224doing tailorism in the big 26 brooooo
>>2815232
How do you know it was dangerous in all cases? How do you know that they didn’t change their perspective once ran over? How do you know that testimonies about them being ran over by a reckless driver weren’t just lies either done out of spite or because they were under the influence of spice and other drugs?
Most of all, how can you be sure regarding its prevalence?
Those young teenagers knew not to jaywalk in strange streets. Yet they did. So you’d just be excusing them if you didn’t held them accountable for their actions.
I know I’ll get a lot of flare for going against the grain, but still, the situation is a lot more nuanced than anyone in Britain is willing to give credit for, especially the prohibitionists who produced the theory for gammons to apply the praxis with. Not excusing the crashers, but based on the data, it’s clear that it’s more of a driving incompetance issue more than “industrial +1 gorillion deaths” chuds often shout in a hysterical manner. Regardless, we can’t let ourselves fall for idealism when it comes to this issue. Nor should we let ourselves ignore the main issue, which is one of poverty and socio-economic conditions, as trite as it sounds.
And once again, bracing for the mass triggering in 3… 2… 1…
>>2815237
Sounds like you're the triggerred one, puritan.
>>2815246
He clearly doesn't read replies. His "points" are proven bunk because you can just replace it by drunk driving showing how absurd they are.
>>2815232
You realise that you "triggering" people doesn't actually mean you're right, and it might just mean you're an obnoxious prick?
What are we all arguing about now?
I missed the deleted posts.
>>2815264
>>2815262
no, tailorism is when you produce your political opinions based on what the workers already think. so if the workers are homophobic you are homophobic, if the workers want apple juice you want apple juice, in a desperate attempt to become their representative.
>>2815258He was defending child rape, he's a regular troll on here.
>>2815261Replace the drunk driving posts with grooming gangs stuff, you'll get the gist of his argument.
>0 days since purple aki visited this thread
>>2815245
>Was the actual abuse typical or atypical, and is it a consequence of illegalization as it happens with most abuses in the sex industry mostly coming from countries with an unregulated sex industry due to its Prohibitionist policies, or inherent to it?
No. We can analyze countries that have decriminalized/legalized prostitution to see that it's not really a factor. A few things happen, those on the streets are not allowed to work in brothels for various reasons, pushing them even further underground, and due to the fact of the legalized prostitution being easily available it forces the illegal prostitutes into both lower pay and more dangerous conditions with men who for various reasons would prefer to use them than the regulated prostitutes.
inb4 you're retard samefagging as is finally banned.
>>2815265>tailorism is when you produce your political opinions based on what the workers already think.and we must never ever ever do this, we cannot make concessions to the working class.
>>2815278If you want to do focus group politics you'd be really into the labour party.
Wont someone stand up for the most oppressed demographic of our era, pedophiles?
Labour party wouldn't have spent 30 years trying to paint itself as the pro-migrant pro-multiculturalism party if they were into focus group politics lmao
>>2815282Unironically this
>>2815278Does it even exist anymore? I thought most of ‘em either became lumpenised, died off from overdoses and suicide, or evolved into pensioners.
>>2815280
Drunk drivers are sent to prisons, Pedophiles are given political office.
I can name you hundred of a pedos in powers, can you can even one drunk driver ?
>>2815051They are fomorians.
>>2815158Would have not would of
>>2815298the ruling class socialized by raping children, the working class socializes by drunk driving over bourgeois kids !
Resources:
https://archive.is/VzwkEhttps://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Commercial_and_online_sexual_exploitationhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/943955/Characteristics_of_group-based_child_sexual_exploitation_in_the_community__Literature_review.pdfThe “abuse” early on is consensual and largely unracialised. So we have to ask why it is that the mainstream press and even much of the left here has succumbed to racialised narratives about “gangs” that typically wouldn’t be used if the men in question were white?
https://www.crimejusticejournal.com/article/view/766https://socialistworker.co.uk/in-depth/background-check/rochdale-child-sexual-exploitation/https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/02/continuing-to-racialise-child-sexual-abuse/https://irr.org.uk/article/asian-grooming-gangs-media-state-and-the-far-right/One point…. let's look at the "grooming" if the far-right and mainstream are complaining about "political correctness". Because the process by which the girls were determined to be victims, or rape victims, was itself politically correct, and misappropriated.
And besides, how come so much noise is made about “brown man bad” alongside a constant barrage of race-essentialist rhetoric, but not a single inquiry is done about the dysfunctional households those underage women come from, especially where single motherhood predominates?
So little attention is paid to it. Perhaps because child poverty here is considered a non-issue despite being one of the main drivers for prostitution, juvenile or not. Really makes you think 🤔
>>2815145one could say they are not true scotsmen
>>2815299Sounds more like the kind of unserious gossip the lumpen tell among themselves, no different than early 20th century gossips among the Euro-lumpen about shadowy Jewish men tempting Aryan fraus into sexual vice or some other low-brow shit like that.
Like, what’s even the evidence for your claims beyond: “I made it the fuck up”?
>>2815311https://www.justice.gov/epsteinthousands of files, ready for you to read
>>2815302>Some gay politician who was just buddy with Epstein, with no proof he ever had sex with a prostieReally weak example if you ask me, especially since it’s just guilt-by-association.
>>2815316You still can find a single drunk driver politician despite them being much more common then child rapists.
Odd isn't it ? Prohibitionist.
>>2815319Dude, you’re just spazzing out now.
>>2815224the reform voter is sometimes working class, sometimes a pensioner, sometimes bougie, sometimes "middle class" (e.g. worker but comfortable) or "upper class", sometimes lumpen/underclass but always, everywhere, a fucking loser.
it is only because of britain's caste system that we "working classify" a group who have their loserness in common, and "middle classify" greens who are far more worker-centered (in terms of having less pensioners and bourgeoisie), simply because they aren't culturally graceless.
>>2815326Can't awnser the damn question, puritan.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/may/16/uk-and-france-extend-one-in-one-out-small-boats-pilot-scheme-until-octoberLooks like the UK will team up with France to fight traffickers with trafficking of their own. It’ll be like the corsairs all over again!
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-government-scrap-planned-rise-202158368.htmlOur dear comrade Starmer has scrapped plans to hike fuel taxes.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/uk-finishes-last-in-eurovision-2026-5HjdZHK_2/Not sure wgaf, but r island was placed last in the Eurovision contest, with Slavs winning once again.
>>28153321 Point lmfao, the boycott really hurt them now didn't it.
>>2815329>Can't awnser (sic) the damn question, puritanBruh, you can’t come up with any western, let alone English, politician who is in the SOR. Ofc I’m not gonna fall for your bait.
But hey, given how low the standards are here due to pedophobic brainrot, here’s my “evidence”:
https://www.ranker.com/list/politicians-with-duis/ranker-news >>2815337Americans !
Typical Yankee nonsense.
>>2815278we cannot and should not make concessions to stupidity, whether that's the past 100 years of the actual british working class being wedded to the world's shittiest labour party, or the more recent phenomenon of a small late-middle-aged chunk of it deciding that civilization should be burned to the ground because they've got a fetish for the abstract idea of dying in a war and watching authority figures beat up children for opposing that notion.
>>2815283they never actually did this, which is why they're fucked. Blair and his cronies always pandered to reactionary sentiment while trying to split the difference with neoliberal economic necessity, which was the dumbest of all possible moves. Labour candidates ran with leaflets like this and then wonder why cunts voted for the BNP.
if they'd painted themselves as a pro-immigrant pro-multiculturalism party, they'd currently be on 35% of the vote. it is precisely because they have pandered to reactionaries openly that they're dead. a smart party - and i'm meeting you half way here - a smart party would've advanced exactly labour's current immigration policies, for example, but would've really played up how much they love immigrants and refugees and simply denied that they were making the system more anti-immigration. boom, net emigration (satisfying those totally legitimate concerns from reform voters) and woke rhetroic (satisfying nice liberals). that, plus throwing the cass review in the bin and rail nationalization and keir starmer would be remembered as better than blair but worse than wilson. but no, stupid cunt mcsweeney thought that prick voice paraphrasing enoch powell was a vote winner and here we are.
>>2815357The Labour Party ever since Blair has been a disaster. Instead of going back to its roots as a socdem party attempting to do genuine socialism, it ended up being a neolib party trying to pander to everyone only to alienate everybody. At this point, leftists in Britain should accept the concept of continuous struggle like their Spanish and Italian counterparts do, recalibrate, and just assert their own identity platform and discuss ideas like immigration in their own terms instead of going at this futile quest to pander to the reactionaries.
Or in other words, play with the cards you’re dealt with, don’t try to chase after a deck you’ll never have anyway.
>>2814646most people believe the monarchy brings more revenue than they cost in taxes. (This is of course not true, because we could abolish the institution and tourists would still visit the buildings. Just look at Versailles.)
>>2815547So funny that people think this while the country with the most tourists in the world chopped their king's head off.
>>2815549England beheaded its king 144 years before France.
Is there anyone more pathetic than small boat iranians who went on the tommy robinson march? I get how they have radicalised but jesus christ the people in that crowd tried to kill you two years ago.
Also saw a funny explicitly zionist blairite saying "liberals need to work with iranians we want the same thing!" and all the iranians saying they want to murder liberals.
>>2815549>A British republic would still receive tourists<UHHHH NO ACKSHUALLY RETARD A BRITISH REPUBLIC WOULD STILL RECEIVE TOURISTSwhy are they like this?
Are the immigrants really that bad or is it just RW schizophrenia? What are some legit bad shit they did?
>>2815582No the UK is just in a process of social collapse but its easier to post about johnny foreigners doing degenerate shit than your own ethnos. White guy masturbates on a train doesn't end up all over twitter, a brown person does it and its proof why we must genocide the darkies NOW. Shit's bad, but its bad for everyone all over.
>>2815582The criminal migrants are mostly the unauthorised ones anyway, so its to be expected. I feel bad for the BAME people in our country who are brought down with their reputation.
>>2815577Every Iranian in the diaspora is a raging Zionist
I've never seen an Iranian loyalist in the west
reminder that shithole constituencies going reform is mostly a compositional effect.
e.g. the people voting reform in 2024 are not the people who voted labour in 1979. those who voted in 1979 voted tory.
>>2815593The largest group of illegals are iranians and they are the ones marching with Tommy Robinson…
>>2815603Nah this isn't true. Even most of the miners bought houses and are now "fuck you got mine" boomers who hate their woke grandchildren.
>>2815606it's true, no-one ever marches in the Durham Miners' Gala each year. Holographic crowds.
>>2815611>Union flag taken down and replaced with a soviet flagVgh….what could have been….
Ok, who wants to bet whether Starmer will pussy out and resign, or go down but not before gulag’ing & purging the entirety of the ChudIntern’s British branch?
>>2815581maybe he was just agreeing? chill
>>2815630And when you point out to them that Israel itself was founded upon terrorism (especially against British authorities) and how it largely lives off by engaging in terrorism, I bet said locals will either repeat the same talking points over and over like bots or make up some BS reason to still hate on Palestine because they associate it with their caricaturised image of the “left” that they have.
As one German comedian said, the UK is the Florida of Europe. Truer words have never been spoken. Although I’d go further and say the British isles is wigger Europe.
>>2815357>if they'd painted themselves as a pro-immigrant pro-multiculturalism party, they'd currently be on 35% of the vote.No they wouldn’t, they’d be even less electable than they currently are, multiculturalism and being pro-migrant is completely dead in the water, the pro-migrant green wave of hypothetical pro-migrant labour defectors never materialised
>a smart party would've advanced exactly labour's current immigration policies, for example, but would've really played up how much they love immigrants and refugees and simply denied that they were making the system more anti-immigration.No this would lead to an absolutely massive disaster as a increasingly anti migrant working class revolt against the labor party because they still think the party’s still pro-migrant
The Australian Labour Party already tried exactly this dumb idea under Paul Keating from 1993-1996 and it resulted in him and their Labour Party getting bum raped by the conservatives for a decade because their voter base saw them all as class traitors
The only thing pretending to be pro-migrant while actually being anti-migrant achieves is completely alienating your own voterbase
>>2815639they timesed their number of seats by 5 in this election bro
>>2815644Reform got 3x the total of the greens bro, lmao.
>>2815639Keating won the seemingly unwinnable 1993 election and lost in 1996 after Labor had been in power since 1983, you fucking dope. the UK equivalent of Keating is Brown, who said sorry for calling a bigoted woman a bigot and ran that cunt Phil Woolas with his stupid illegal racist leaflets and get this: he lost the eminently winnable 2010 election with just 28% of the vote.
it may have escaped your notice but 35% is a bad vote share. i am not saying that Labour have a path to 55% of the vote if they are (rhetorically) pro migrant, i am saying they have a path to survival. if the ALP alienated their traditional supporters, they picked up new "middle class" ones to compensate (they just won re-election, something Labour haven't done since 2005!!), UK Labour's vote base has also changed over time, and now Labour are alienating all their supporters in the hopes of winning over 2019 Tories and Reform voters. net result? more 2019 Tory voters died than voted Labour in 2024, and Labour's vote count and share were lower than in 2019. it has only sank since.
if you think being pretending to be pro migrant while actually being anti migrant is bad, you should see what pretending to be anti migrant and actually being anti migrant does to a party with a vote base consisting of educated people of all age groups and young progressives in particular. (Labour: 16%)
PS the recent SNP victory shows just how little you have to do to keep progressives on side as a socdem party. literally just don't be comically evil and you can be completely and utterly useless! doing anything else is a choice, a dumb choice! >>2815650>Keating won the seemingly unwinnable 1993 election and lost in 1996 after Labor had been in power since 1983He won 93 by cutting migration rates in half and keeping his mouth shut about how great migrants and multiculturalism are, it was after he won that election he started the pro-migrant secretly anti-migrant shit that cost him the 96 election and alienated the working class from the party.
You can be anti migrant and keep your mouth shut about the issue
You can be anti-migrant publicly and anti-migrant in policy
But being pro-migrant publicly but being anti-migrant in policy is a setup for disaster
>>2815645Ok, and? They've been getting promoted non stop by the media for years now. Next election Labour will do even worse and Greens will do even better, eventually there will be a tipping point where people abandon Labour en masse. Obviously Greens weren't going to beat reform this time when the somewhat left wing vote is split between Labour, Greens, and Lib Dems (I even saw people advocating tactical voting for the Tories against Reform which is just deranged)
>>2815655>Ok, and?The point being it’s easy to do a 5x when your going from dogshit to dogshit, the imagined green wave of hypothetical pro-migrant labor defectors never materialised, the Tories and lib dems both got more seats than the greens
>>2815660they obviously did materialise, Greens were the second biggest seat gainer. Tories and Libdems held more seats than Greens yeah but Tories lost tons and Libdems didn't gain nearly as much as Greens
>>2815653An overdetermined just-so story (no mention of the recession? Don't think that had an impact on numbers?) that skims over the bulk of my argument and does not engage at all with the British examples.
(And a lot of good "being anti migrant" did for the population figures: Australia's population in 1983 was 15.3 million, 1993 it was 17.7, 1996 it was 18.4, 2007 it was 21.1, and today it's 27.7. 10 million people up in 30 years!)
>>2815655>>2815653See
>>2815372But yh, I would agree keeping mum about muh immigraysion would be better than being vocal about it as far as we go, considering that it’s already polarising and doesn’t do any favor with the current leftist voter base in the UK, especially the FPTP system means people here are obsessed with winning back gammons to their side even tho the main reason immigration is such a big topic to begin with is because most people are broke.
Also, see this:
https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country?crossBreak=1824 >>2815666Yh, the Greens’ victory does make me wonder if them chudding out on immigration and the trans question would have gotten them more or less voters than now. Thing is, the Greens got strong support from London liberals, so that does compromise them since that means many of their economic populist policies most likely won’t make the light of the day. Tough spot, especially as most of the British working class is being lumpenised, with the middle class joining their ranks as well, whilst the upper class is turning into Britain’s version of the American middle class. The whole country is literally undergoing downward mobility.
>>2815666>(no mention of the recession? Don't think that had an impact on numbers?It no doubt had some impact but the time of the election the recession was basically over
>(And a lot of good "being anti migrant" did for the population figures: Australia's population in 1983 was 15.3 million, 1993 it was 17.7, 1996 it was 18.4, 2007 it was 21.1, and today it's 27.7. 10 million people up in 30 years!)It’s complicated
There’s a rather dishonest strategy I didn’t mention in the last post: you can also get away with being openly anti-immigrant while being pro-immigrant in policy if you’re willing to be be publically and vocally anti-immigrant enough (and anti-refugee). The problem is that eventually the voters start looking around and see more and more migrants pouring in despite this anti-migrant rhetoric and the whole thing collapses and your party completely falls apart
The Australian labor party’s pro-migrant rhetoric from 1994-1996 alienated the working class to the point it allowed Australia’s conservatives to essentially walk into power by pretending to be anti-immigrant while secretly being pro-immigrant and ramping up immigration rates, the conservatives used this strategy, leveraging the fact that a openly pro-immigrant labor party couldn’t do anything about it to get 2 seperate decade long runs in power but like what’s happened with the Tories in England, they simply ended up importing too many people for their voter base to ignore and the house of cards has collapsed in the face of albos labor party promising to cut migration rates in half(but not really which is now causing labor problems) at the last election
>>2815653it's more like they won because the labor party throughout most of the 90s was a party for the middle class intellectuals and the like, with a fair bit of workers support, whereas the liberal party was the white collar, petty bourgeois party
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRtrYkSJ/
>Be a chud>Believes UK is unfair>Denies poverty is widespread, says suffering should be part of life, aristocrats owning more wealth than the bottom half is le good>Call any suggestion to remedy wealth inequality “communism”At this pace, the UK will have a competency crisis more than a demographic one LOL
But honestly, given how the TFRs of migrants has converged with that of long-term British residents, I think human extinction is more likely than the great replacement (assuming it’s real)
>>2815660you do not understand how FPTP voting works.
let's say a seat is 40% reform, 55% labour, and 5% green.
now let's say labour are total shit in government. 25% of labour voters defect to the greens, 5% defect to reform.
result: 45% reform, 30% green, 25% labour. seat goes reform - oh no!
but if you think this proves that lab > reform switchers are a bigger problem than lab > green switchers, you're actually fucking mental. even if labour regains 100% of lab > reform defectors, it's tied with the greens as the main anti-reform party while being seen as basically reform anyway! that's a death-spiral situation! (see: scotland, where people suddenly realized you don't have to vote scottish labour to stop the Tories and indeed, that voting SNP is a safer bet. "red tories out", i believe they put it…)
see also picrel: 18% of 2024 labour voters dumped them for copying reform's rhetoric on immigration, against 16% who dumped them for being too soft on immigration. worse still, 22% of those who considered but rejected labour think they're copying reform while only 10% think they're too soft.
>>2815689i take the point about opportunistically deploying anti-migrant rhetoric, but i think you underprice how asymmetric concern about immigration policy is and overprice how important the working classes are to election victory. (labour won the working class in every election from the 1900s to 2019, but they didn't win the majority of elections by far.)
also: labor didn't do that badly in 1998 (it won the popular vote and the TPP vote!) which is pretty impressive for a party that had just spent a decade in power, even if they were up against that cunt howard.
anyway: whether a party has to be opportunistically anti-migrant to win an election is a very different question to whether a nominally socdem party in power polling 16% should tilt right in pursuit of people who mostly didn't even vote labour in 2024 (the first election at which better off people were more likely to vote labour than worse off people), or tilt left in a desperate attempt to remain the main center-left party after being wiped out at the next election.
i resist the working/middle class framing device, but granting it for devil's advocacy purposes: if labour have become a middle class luvvie party, trying to alienate the luvvies and win back the working class has proven an utterly moronic strategy. it has not won back the working class but it has alienated all but the most comfortable members of the middle class, and even they'll flip lib-dem when they realize they don't want to waste their votes.
i would analyze the relative success of the antipodean labo(u)r parties being that they've accepted that they are to some extent "middle class" parties and they just get on with it instead of trying to
shake off their own supporters. there's even an argument that making the middle classes natural labour voters was blair's whole project - but now that it's been delivered and it turns out the middle classes are socially progressive, they hate it!
>>2815879>the great replacement (assuming it’s real)fun fact, the concept's origin was literally a zionist projecting.
>>2815885while i'm at it
the best lab > reform defector score is in Scotland (14%), but Scotland is a little misleading because a chunk of voters vote on a nationalist/unionist axis. even then, more labour voters went
SNP than reform!
meanwhile in wales, only 5% of labour's obliteration was due to lab>reform switchers against a ludicrous
41% to plaid. (even the dead tory party didn't lose that big a chunk of its vote!)
>>2815879>At this pace, the UK will have a competency crisis more than a demographic one LOLIt already does lol. The government can't achieve ANYTHING and all the MPs/ministers are using LLM slop to come up with their ideas/execution
>>2815671>the Greens’ victory does make me wonder if them chudding out on immigration and the trans question would have gotten them more or less voters than now.Obviously less? That's like saying Reform should say they're going to rejoin the EU to get votes
>>2815912This, the people that want to vote exclusively for those ALREADY have a party, you're not stealing them by acting chuddy, they already think you're a "woke leftist" party so they're convinced you're lying to them whereas you may lose your own base.
>>2815879If the global birthrate collapse continue appace and automation still isnt widespread governments will compete with one another to get more people in, not less.
Unnatractive countries like LATAM, eastern europe and most of Asia will be economicaly devastated.
>>2815898looks like my previous take that the new non-voter who now votes reform only really holds significant truth in scotland.
>>2815921>>2815912To borrow an American phrase, people are often one-issue voters, and these issues are always partisan, marginal issues. The idea of ticking 99 check boxes but leaving 1 makes the whole difference, since people largely only care about the 1 unticked check box. This is also why you can be a raving tory, but so long as you are anti-immigrant, you get much of the working class vote, because you don't get votes in being logical, you get votes being rhetorical.
Would you betray Keir for a million dollars?
>>2815979i wouldn't even do it for 30 pieces of silver
>>2815979My love and belief in Keir Starmer is worth the wealth of the world entire.
>>2815979I'd do it for free who the fuck needs to be paid to kill Kid Starver?
>>2815997Do not use my flag when i am posting. Thank you.
>>2815997>>2815998What's going on here?
>>2816000>What's going on here?Nothing. Back to work!
>>2815954“Well, the issue with automation is that:
- Automation is only useful to capital if it increases profitability relative to human labor. Much like replacing workers with a water mill, a capitalist will only automate production if it lowers labor costs, increases productivity, or gives a competitive advantage. If profit margins remain effectively the same with or without automation, then its widespread adoption would make little sense economically.
- But widespread automation creates another contradiction. Under capitalism, value is rooted in socially necessary labor time, while wages also provide the purchasing power needed to realize profit through consumption. If entire sectors become fully automated, then less living labor is involved in production, meaning fewer workers are being paid wages. This creates a crisis tendency: the system increasingly eliminates the very source of both value and mass consumer demand. Goods may become cheaper to produce, but the question becomes who can actually buy them, and how value itself is measured when labor is progressively removed from production.
That’s why automation shouldn’t be treated as a panacea. Automation under capitalism would deepen it’s contradiction, which is probably why it won’t see widespread adoption beyond the arts and entertainment, which is why the biggest impact of AI on the economy has been in the entertainment and artistic sectors, as well as journalism.
>>2816015Here's your proletariat guys.
Qanon schizos, drunken football hooligans, AI slop fans, Iranian monarchists. Every shade of self radicalised council flat Hitlerite, all backed by billionaires and crypto donations.
There's 100,000s, if not millions of these people. What is to be done?
>>2816032Embrace the "middle class" who are for the most part normal people, particularly the "lower middle class" who are by any sane measure really the working class in a service economy
>>2816015>These are the people who are about to hand an investment banker a 500 seat majoritybongland is truly cursed
>>2816032>proletariatlumpenproletariat*
I refuse to believe 50<% of these people are in employment - and the pensioners speak for themselves.
>>2815957You can't be all things to all people. Look at Starmer and his island of strangers speech, he was more unpopular than ever afterwards. There's a reason why we have the camps we have in this country and why say conservative socialism never caught on, yes people might fucking hate immigrants as their primary issue but that doesn't mean they're going to accept the rest of the green party platform just for that one issue, when they have plenty of other options who are 100% right wing.
>>2816043This. If we can pick up a few votes from Gammon by offering more funding for their mum's care home then great but we can't base our politics around these people, trying to desperately chase them just puts off the actual left
>>2816048Just let bongland and Amerikkka collapse. After Reagan and Thatcher these parasite honkies don't deserve to have a civilization anymore. Burn it all down they're all retarded cucks for businessmen. It is impossible to get an Anglo-Saxon to stop sucking the cocks of millionaires.
>>2816048>conservative socialismIts never been suggested, but in any case, the working class prefer conservatism to socialism in general. Class politics is dead; everything is about culture war.
>>2816050Ok great, glad you got that out of your system, now do you have anything actually useful to say?
>>2816051I'm referring to say Galloway and the various reactionary communist parties in the UK
>>2816052The Angloid Communist seethes in outrage because he knows he cannot defend his people being mindless slaves to capitalism, but if he were to accept the simple truth that his people are brainless idiots incapable of accepting Communism, it would call into question his entire life's work "organizing" "agitating" etc.
politics as personality theory stays winning
>>2816053Gazzaway is mates with the muzzies though, and tozza robbo tells me that israel is the last stand for the west.
>>2816056Now here's the deeper question; does personality determine class, or does class determine personality?
>>2816015There's something wrong with that cursed Island.
>>2816043
>Embrace the "middle class" who are for the most part normal peopleA a lot of those "middle class" people have class anxiety, and are either depoliticized, indoctrinated Blairites, or political weaklings and wave riders.
>>2816055Angloid socialism is fine, people are just mad that in a service economy that means being popular with people who look like Sam Kriss and used to read Sam Kriss until he was cancelled instead of being popular with Welsh coal miners who haven't existed since 1989 and were really on the way out since the 1960s but given second wind by 2 oil crises.
Our conservatives similarly blew themselves up as the party of the respectable but thrifty bourgeois when they decided to indulge dad's army mongs.
>>2816055You're probably an Anglo anyways, pesh off
>>2816057Well I mean that's my point, you can't win, even if you're conservative on social issues you aren't racist enough against Muslims, and so on. You have to be totally hateful and think British 'culture' is an alley behind the chippy filled with empty beer cans and cigarette butts
>>2816059>A a lot of those "middle class" people have class anxiety, and are either depoliticized, indoctrinated Blairites, or political weaklings and wave riders.Yeah sure but on the whole they're a lot more reasonable than the average rightoid who wants to set hotels on fire
>>2816059Nobody is a Blairite anymore and no ideology is worse understood. And so far as it's used to mean socially liberal economically neoliberal, it has never existed. Blairism was never that.
>>2816062I remember when the brexiteers were citing the fact that we dont use real newspapers in chippies anymore as a reason why we have to leave the EU and deregulate society - what are these spurious and uninteresting exclamations except the strained longing for something immaterial and ungraspable? Fact is, people dont know what the fuck they want; they havent got a clue - but the problem is that we give political responsibility to the plebs when they dont deserve it. Lets face it; universal suffrage is a mistake, and we need to qualify who is able to hold representational power in this country. What I see at these marches is a mob; a riotous cesspit of drunk ogres itching to paki bash. The country cannot be put in their hands, like how it was put in the hands of Hitler.
>>2816064>Yeah sure but on the whole they're a lot more reasonable than the average rightoid who wants to set hotels on fire100%. I don't disagree. Right wingers are always worse. Most of them seem to be animated by evil desires, I can't fathom.
>>2816064An increasingly dwindling middle-class in the centres of the big cities are not going to save anyone. If this is who you're going to rely on you may as well just give up.
I HOPE we petition to join back into the EU and they bugger us off. They see the writing on the wall.
>>2816078Join and then leave again in 20 years.
>>2816085
With or without the gambling ?
>>2816073Literally how? It's the left leaning 'middle class' that is growing, the feral gammon are the ones dying out from alcoholism, smoking, diet too rich in fat, etc etc.
>>2816078They'd less us back in but not with the pound, we won't get the sweetheart deals we had before
>>2816073They're growing, we consider everyone with a degree "middle class" and higher education has only expanded. Meanwhile reactionaries are literally dying off.
Would like to remind /leftybritpol/ that the EU is neoliberal at heart and would limit our ability to nationalise industry
>>2816108they also ban communists from running, death to the EU
>>2816103>>2816107They probably mean the proportion of people whose income puts them in the income bracket informally considered to be “middle class”, which is obviously shrinking as Britain is getting poorer and poorer due to the 2008 crisis, Brexit, the pandemic and the lockdowns, and now both the Ukrainian and the gulf energy shocks, the latter of which is the biggest energy crisis in all history exceeding even those of the 1970s.
If Britain was rich, emigration wouldn’t be at an all-time high.
>>2816108True, EU-communism is retarded since the current EU constitution on private property would make it nigh-impossible to have an actual communist society within the EU:
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/human-rights/your-fundamental-rights-eu/know-your-rights/freedoms/right-property_en >>2816181bros i hate living in the butthurt belt
>>2816248right wing of capital detected
>>2816255I have no idea who either of those people are
>>2816391First one speaks for itself.
Second caller:
>I prefer Rupert Lowe to Nigel Farage; we need to go back 300 years; Only Fools and Horses didn't have this woke nonsense; black and brown people aren't English; vaccines are bad for you.It was just a sewer of slop emptied out at intervals. The guy admits that he has fallen down rabbitholes and fell out of touch with people since covid, but doesn't realise that his isolation has made him schizophrenic.
>>2816175>They probably mean the proportion of people whose income puts them in the income bracket informally considered to be “middle class”, which is obviously shrinking as Britain is getting poorer and poorer due to the 2008 crisis, Brexit, the pandemic and the lockdowns, and now both the Ukrainian and the gulf energy shocks, the latter of which is the biggest energy crisis in all history exceeding even those of the 1970s. they're clearly not actually talking about that though, they're talking about 'the mythical white working class'
- muh precious working class reform voters (more likely to not vote than to vote labour at any election since 2005 - and while 2005 was a shit result, 2017 wasn't! you had your chance!)
[old data]
- fun chart, current data.
tl;dr: poor libs > green, poor cunts > reform, rich libs > labour/ld/green split, rich cunts > reform.)
>>2816703Who the fuck are the 5% financially insecure and liberal socially voting for the conservatives ?
>>2816717the "temporary embarassed billionaire" type?
>>2816720Wouldn't they be voting for the Libdems ?
>>2816717dont underestimate how schizo peoples politics can be. i used to work with this self descibed incel and he used to post anti-religion new atheism memes with george carlin mocking christianity then the next day fawning over how based and trad christianity is
>>2816781I mean that one is a classic, it's a bit like fascists glorifying pagans as being cool and trads without actually practicising the pagan rites.
>>2816783The only honest fascists are the fedora tippers
>>2816781political incoherence and right wingers go hand in hand, it doesnt make sense because they've never tried to make it make sense - if they did they would be a leftist.
>>2816791
>college
No wonder you hate reason 🇺🇲
>>2816799YANKEE GO HOME
>>2816797we do have colleges here as well tbf
https://benansell.substack.com/p/labour-at-the-marginmore fun/interesting statistics about who votes for who. a little dated but illustrates the point well.
(tl;dr a labour voter in central london has more in common
politically with a labour voter in makerfield than a reform voter in makerfield has in common with a labour voter in makerfield. it turns out that
people vote, not constituencies!)
i mean sometimes it's easy to miss the wood for the trees and forget that you are pitching politics to people rather than to abstract measurements. this is a very important advertising lesson even for the revolutionary left: if there's a customer base out there for revolutionary leftism, you're mental to go "no, i'm going to pitch my product to people who want to watch policemen beat up brown people on TV"
and it really is just reform who are weird:
https://benansell.substack.com/p/odd-ones-out to explain this chart: the top left believe that most minorities are discriminated against, but not straight white men. the bottom right believe that straight white men are victims and everyone else is positively discriminated in favour of. (the sum of various other little tests in the article itself, basically.)
you can see that even tories cluster basically towards the center except for small business hitlerites (who're over with reform) and that greens are woke regardless of employment source, while reform voters are way off on another planet on their own, circlejerking about how these days if you say you're english you'll be locked up and thrown in jail.
>>2816717I saw on Facebook liberal leaning people posting 'tactical voting guides' that included voting Tory in seats held by them currently to keep out Reform lol.
If you betray Keir, are a foreigner or a gammon, we're deporting you to the chagos or possibly the falklands mate.
>>2816994Oasis are absolute melts.
Restore really think they are going to win in Wigan.
>>2817073Did they win a single council seat
>>2817078Only in Greater Yarmouth (where they ran as a localist party).
I love how people here managed to form an ironic fan base for comrade Keir that has done more to promote him than the entirety of the Labour Party’s PR team.
Anyway, is this a nothingburger or a tectonic shift in British culture?:
https://inews.co.uk/news/media/new-bbc-plan-axe-channels-overhaul-licence-fee-4423926I know the BBC here is hated for being the government’s mouthpiece, but I don’t foresee anything good with privatising it either. An example is how the previous Tory administration wanted more “local productions” and gutted the BBC’s budget and prohibited it from making the kind of local collabs with indie studios that could have given it a more localised flair, with the end result being that the remaining space was gobbled up by tabloids and the right-wing news journalistic complex.
I guess it’s to be expected in the coming austerity Britain.
By the way who tf are Heritage?
>>2816857
(you)
>>2816857
there isn't one but posters here haven't fully internalized that yet. they don't realize that brexit threw away our last trump card over the yanks (a smug sense of superiority and genuinely superior mid/highbrow cultural output even as we fell further and further behind economically)
>>2817152David Kurten, black UKIP and then Brexit MEP. Literally got into a fist fight with another guy in the Brexit Party and quit like straight after the EU election. Founded Heritage and has been trying to meme Christian politics into a thing but has failed and been overcome. Somehow is able to stand loads of candidates that get 0.5% of the vote.
>>2817172That's really funny and also their manifesto is ridiculously schizo, using weird acronyms like "LGBTQQIAAPPP+"
>>2817186>their manifesto is ridiculously schizoStandard for most rightoids.
>>2817186at this point why have a +
I wish there was a liberal out there who could see what an existential civilizational threat idiot rightoids are.
I'd back them, I'd back a 20% cut in public spending (and targeted tax hike equivalents) if it could be made to land entirely on rightoids. An unpopular front, you don't have to offer me anything but the possibility of forestalling barbarism. In Britain Labour have blown it (pandering to them? What were you thinking!?) unless they desperately ram through PR (and even then) but in the US or elsewhere, libs have maybe one last chance to lance the boil. If libs don't pre-emptively defend civilization by technocratic means, rightoids will spend no time sadistically destroying it by violent ones.
>>2817915One good thing about the current itteration of rightoids is they brainwashed themselves with randian fanfiction that cast hitler as libertarian hero instead of a right-wing socialist so they can't help imploding their country's institutions and national infrastructures to loot the copper wires. It makes them unable to carry any lasting transformative plans like the nazis did.
>>2816248> Meme: no plausible party currently proposes to nationalise industries in a systematic way. That's a failure of the left. Which is ultimately a simple policy change that could be implemented if we had legitimate left-wing politicians.
Doesn't change the fact it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; after being in the EU for 4 decades.
Perhaps it is just a coincidence of timing rather than the cause, but society and the vibe of politics feels like it completely shifted in the run-up to the referendum and never recovered. Boggles my mind why anyone would want to go through that again
>>2818621ACP bit a 6:06, those guys are gonna go to jail at some point.
>>2818749This is once again just saying "well Brexit could have been good, in theory". In the actual practical situation we were in, it was a terrible idea.
>>2818768>In the actual practical situation we were in, it was a terrible idea.This isn't disputed though. The point is that
- It didn't need to be terrible (though better that the Tory's took the flak for the initial transition of leaving, which was always going to be difficult just by the nature of how ingrained we were in the EU)
- The opportunity for the left to take advantage of the benefits from leaving the EU still remains
Brexit Could Have Been Good In Theory And Other Scary Chthonic Tales From The Tory Masonic Lodge
Absolutely staggering statistics:
>Net migration to the UK fell to 171,000 in 2025, new figures show - the lowest level since 2012, excluding the Covid pandemic>The figure reached a peak of 944,000 in the year to March 2023, but has been falling - a brief look at the numbershttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvgzjpd1jjgtHail Starmer and his closure of British borders!
>>2818615Isn't this guy a mega zionist, neoliberal, sex offender who has gay porn of himself leaked online, and has a son who is a neo-nazi groyper?
>>2818854That's quite a CV.
>>2818861and just like with trupm once the honey moon phase is over we'll have to hear over and over again
>we were tricked! >we trusted nige! >he promised this! >>2818864It already happened with Brexit!
Farage "tricked us" with that, and now he's back for more.
>>2818861total "politics as personality" theory + "anti-immigration voters are mostly just cunts rather than people responding to a legitimate problem" theory vindication.
>>2815163Was Henry a legit retard or harmless and innocent?
>>2818922The two are mutually inclusive
>>2818916You're mostly right, but Lab > Reform movement isn't as much of a thing as you'd think. ( See up here:
>>2816703 + picrel.)
It's a slightly messy chart, but basically: the better Labour did in a ward back in 2022, the better the Greens do now as Labour collapses, while Reform are +~20% everywhere.
e.g. safe Labour wards collapse to the Greens as the left-wing voters that made it a safe Labour ward defect, while Reform gets ~20% of the votes in wards with almost no Labour presence and ~15-20% of the vote in wards that were safe Labour, because what's really driving their gains is the local Tories switching, and that won't show up in
Labour's 2026 vote share.)
Which is all to be expected because the educational realignment of British politics goes back at least to 2016.
>>2818944>the better Labour did in a ward back in 2022, the better the Greens do now as Labour collapses, while Reform are +~20% everywhere. Yes; centrism is dead - the left and right of all parties are coalescing, which is also a problem, since it means that everything is now polarised, and there will be no common ground; no fair play.
>>2818955It’s actually good for all contradictions to be laid bare
>>2819009No it isnt; a fully contradictory society is a society in civil war.
You need a medium between opposites to offer peace.
Suggesting the laying bare of contradictions also leads to race war; "us and them" - even if we are a racist society, its best left unsaid, out of sheer politeness.
>>2815188>I'm sure they've had the same training we did, probably a lot more. They're just fucking pussies.Respectfully though, you probably do spend way more time in training than them.
IDK, i never worked as a police officer, but i do think the trainings that they make you do when you work in the services in a scam, some kickback scheme to the bosses of whatever service you work in and whoever runs the training.
>>2819112Not segregation, want to segregation go to Northern Ireland.
>>2819122Its the exclusion of trans and non-femme women from public life, its segregation.
Bridget Phillipson is a worthless vile cunt among the shower of cunts that make the labour party
>>2819123They're not banned from public spaces, if this is segregation then is any space dedicated to men or women segregation ?
Not the same as little girls having bottles of piss thrown at them for going to a school in the wrong neighborhood.
>>2819132Having an insane boomer harpie rentier getting you fired from your job or being stabbed by a hobgoblin on your way to school as your country's politicians criminalize your daily routine with the benediction of the journo class is worse than segregation, which was much more humane and reasoned.
>>2819136Call me the day we see a trans person be lynched on a burning cross by a state sponsored terrorist organisation
>>2819147A 16 year old transgender girl was stabbed to death 28 times by a gender critical hobgoblin schoolmate with the explicit intent of murdering her for being transgender while the journo and NGO class cheered for it, Keir Starmer made a weepy apology before enabling more disfranchisement procedures directed at said transgenders, young ones in particular.
Now you can say it was a freak case, something highly unusual, but young Eddie RATcliffe pictured here did exactly what the UK defacto rulling class told him to do, loudly and explicitely, for years.
It's only real segregation if you have a crown of angry white male waving ugly confederate or possibly orange flags.
Actually i could find some pictures of geriatrics waving that ugly green purple white flag somewhere shouting TRANS WONT REPLACE US.
>>2819160a disgusting case for sure, hatred of trans people is an issue. But it's a one off, trans people aren't being systematically murdered and their murderers are condemned legally when it happens.
But I don't think you understand the level of hatred Irish catholics had to face in the North, people were regularly murdered nearly every week for being catholics, you have (still have) paramillitaries marching down the street to scare the people there, you had the British state actively supporting the murder to this day (David Cleary got cleared after all) Finally you have two communities that never see, never talk, never want to marry each other. Thats segregation.
The EHRC guidance is incoherent and has nothing to do with "the law" (e.g. legislation or precedent)
There are no laws about sex segregating public bathrooms (employment law requires it for employee facilities only) and the EHRC guidance says that organisations can remain trans inclusive by being for both women and trans people for example. (e.g. they recognise the actual position that in the EA2010 one MAY discriminate to have a group for a certain trait, not that one MUST discriminate)
A man's or woman's public toilet is enforced entirely by social convention with the law at best offering a defense if someone says it's discriminatory to ask them to leave. There is no duty to exclude anyone if you don't want to, except in EHRC guidance where they've made it up.
Even if you hate transgender people this madlibs approach to the rules in the interest of excluding them should have you concerned about what will happen when they decide they'd like to fuck you over next.
>>2819168Chattel slavery was different from indentured servitude, segregation also takes different forms. Id hope you'd understand that this incrementalism towards trans segregation is another notch towards an Irish situation.
The state hates trans people and is actively trying to make life as hard as it can without active violence.
Absolutely a total shithole. Trans people are now de facto banned from all the services needed to conduct daily life.
Not sure why they're doing this either other than to appeal to Reform. I guess there's also TERFs in high places, with lots of money and lobbying power.
If I had the capability to leave the country I would.
Reminder the Windsors are literally immigrants from a small boat from the Netherlands, keeping the monarchy is pro immigration, if you’re actually anti immigrant they have to go
Notice again how basically zero cis people give the slightest fuck about sticking up for trans people when they're being stripped of rights
Most people do not give the slightest fuck what happens until it directly impacts them. They don't care about genocide in Palestine so why would they care about trans people being effectively banned from social life in their own country either.
>>2819203Truly wonder what Reform will do if they form the next government. The party must be packed to the rafters with all sorts of fanatics who will just drown the issue further when in power.
>Women and Equalities Minister Bridget Phillipson said the aim was to allow people to live free from discrimination and harassment.
Love how they put some pathetic libtarded copium about how it's actually a good thing and progressive to institute apartheid against trans people.
Have to coat their campaign of oppression and exclusion in a varnish of the language of caring and sensibility.
>>2819214They’re going to last even less than Lizz Truss, it’ll just be her government all over again
>>2819219>>2819214It will be more or less Trussite in policy but arguably less competent since half their MPs will be random pub drunks and boomer facebook racists.
That said I don't think it will collapse no matter how bad it gets. Who is going to ouste them from power? There's no-one to replace them, there's no alternative.
I expect when it does full apart they'll just privatise everything and peddle culture war shit as hard as they can.
>>2819221It's just a complete political and cultural retrogression; if they inherit a recession whilst attempting to slash state welfare it'll leave those already struggling destitute with no recourse due to what is essentially a monoparty state.
I can easily see them introducing clauses within their proposed bill of rights to enshrine gender acts which ties it to biological sex
There is absolutely no reprieve in sight, and this all has to happen post the Iranian oil crisis, when fertiliser costs have sunk in price rises on basic foodstuffs. There just literally is no future in this country
>>2819203They're not even doing this to appeal to Reform. Farrage is less anti-trans that that, as he have voiced many times.
It's because everything left-of-center in the UK, that includes parasitic moneysink NGOs and journos, is at the hand of second wave feminists or their husband the latter of which have more of a simp relationship with them than anything.
They are also broadly anti-youth and anti-young (white) male in particular, sometimes quite explicitely. To the second waver the young white guy is maybe the next Hitler to be culled or else shed be forced into the kitchen and to her husband he is male intrasexual competition in the making or he might have SEX with his daughter. By that worldview a transgender, especially young white and male-to-female is like a an deserter trying to dodge enlistment in the bataillon.
It would actually be remarkably easy to shut down and disfranchise these people, they are old, uncharismatic, and their influence is dwindling but since the established left and liberals are knee-deep in radical gynoworship ever since metoo happenned they would never dare doing this because it would give ammunition to "the manosphere" or whoever.
Truly, there is nothing worse to any movement than a simp.
>>2819234I was in some your party related whatsapp today I hadn't been kicked out of yet, and pushed back a bit against the 'listen and believe and minority voices' stuff by point out terfs also claim to represent the minority, and some woman was like 'they're just hateful and can't understand transwomen are WOMEN, not some potential/likely male looking for victims'. I pointed out this is a fucked up thing to say and everyone got big mad and the chat got locked, I just left, fuck that
my point is even the pro trans people are fucking deranged misandrist freaks
>>2819242sorry, I dunno why I wrote 'that I hadn't been kicked out of yet', I've never been kicked out of one of these chats lol, I meant that I hadn't left yet
>>2819242Just ridiculous that this debate is taking so much space, IMO, why is this the first thing people talk about in leftists space (on either side of the debate really)
>>2819242they are hatefull and its a pretty reasonable thing to say, TERFs are a tiny minority of people who are given backing and funding by the upper class.
>>2819253I mean I was bringing it up myself this time TBH because it's the best proof I could think of that the position 'we need to listen to all minority voices and not argue about it' is incoherent and self contradictory
>>2819256TERFs are subhuman slime, what I mean is saying 'we should support trans rights because transgirls aren't all likely rapists like men are'
>>2819262Should have called them racist for thinking every minority thinks the same way
>>2819267I feel like that would have gone over even worse, but it was pretty clear by 'minority' what they actually meant was 'women' anyway.
>>2819242>Your Party WhatsAppIs the rest of it just dooming about their complete electoral irrelevance
>>2819276Ok so, I actually did leave this group already a month ago, and the admin messaged me like 'are you okay' and i'm like yeah I just think YP is completely dead and I'm tired of it, and he said 'well it's not only about YP we are just a national group of activists, it's good to stay in touch', so fine I rejoined the public chat, so in theory it's a 'post-YP' chat but I've yet to see them do anything actually productive, it's just arguments are idpol shit seemingly
>>2819253It is an issue that cleanly separates people into two clean groups: good + annoying but harmless and irrelevant, and bad + incredibly tedious and guaranteed to betray you.
The reason it gets attention is as a shibboleth, and a very helpful one at that.
>>2819300I would even go further and hypothesise that the root of all modern culture wars is whether you think people should be differentiated by individual taste or by their innate characteristics
Contrary to what you'd expect, "woke idpol liberals" want people differentiated by taste (that discourse is one big game of Calvin all reveals this), while reactionaries of all types want more fixed places in a stable status hierarchy. (E.g. TERFs will accept a subordinate position to cis men to maintain a superior position over trans women, because the alternative is a contest of fast changing tastes and fashions which they're unable to keep up with.)
>>2819308Calvin all > calvinball
>Concerning intercourse: Thus, having supposedly done away with the masculine and having rendered all feminine, one reads Stirner's arguments in favor of association or intercourse: i.e. opposed to all impersonal and essentialized socialization (My Intercourse (xi) 6:1), thus "intercourse is mutuality" (My Intercourse (ii) 1:6) whereby "[m]y intercourse with the world consists in this, that I enjoy it, and so consume it for my self-enjoyment" (My Intercourse (xi) 35:1).
>And now in sum, with all rendered as feminine and egoist praxis as the act of mutual, non-essentialized voluntary association or intercourse, one (mis)understands egoist praxis to mean lesbian intercourse. In the end, however, queer intercourse might be more accurate since "only when you are unique can you have intercourse with each other as what you are"
>>2819343>When later, against Stirner’s statement, “I am more than a human being,” Feuerbach raises the question: “Are you also more than male?,” one must indeed write off the entire masculine position.
>(…)
>If Stirner had said: You are more than a living essence or animal, this would mean, you are still an animal, but animality does not exhaust what you are. In the same way, he says: “You are more than a human being, therefore you are also a human being; you are more than a male, but you are also a male; but humanity and masculinity do not express you exhaustively, and you can therefore be indifferent to everything that is held up to you as ‘true humanity’ or ‘true masculinity.’
>He is a unique male, a unique human being, etc.; indeed, he is an incomparable male, an incomparable human being. >>2819344>Are you also more than male?<You are more than a living essence or animalHilarious that they retreat from a historical consideration of the relation underpinning male existentiality and instead resort to some crude dynamism between man and animal
What's this from?
>>2819385Damn its a shame he deleted it, cancel culture much
>>2819242True. I have pointed this out on a previous thread that transgender activists trapped themselves by tying their brand/political project to feminism and general leftist causes. It was particularly foolish of them considering the most efficient pro-trans policies are always enacted best by timid center-left and center-right parties.
Gay rights also took on when they dropped the pathological leftism from their brand and told the histrionic activist types which are more or less the same thing to tone it down or just fuck off.
>>2819253I used to think the same as you not so long ago but since then that culture war has shown to be about bigger thing than the thing itself.
The anti-trans, no matter their political identity, are insane people who want to enslave the youth with the help "parent rights" and other subversive legal concepts, they are using the trans debate to enact top-down control on the young and the healthy at the behest of the old and the dying, with a sadistic twist directed young white or white coded males in particular, which they see young trans women as a subtype.
Trans isnt just about Trans.
>>2819575Is your sick and disgistung paraphilia the only thing you think of ? Do you have nothing else in your life seriously ?
>>2819574this is a slightly mistaken model of social change
remember that backing gay rights is one of the "Loony left" causes of the 1980s. it's now mostly airbrushed out of history, but at the time one of the labour right's pet causes was making the party drop socially progressive causes to look more normal, which was a total blunder in the context of (a) how society was actually developing, and (b) their own economic project (because many of the middle class voters they were keen to court were socially liberal!)
if histrionic activist types hadn't won over Ken Livingston in the 1980s, timid center-rightists would not have passed gay marriage 20 years hence.
actually they would have because these social changes are in large part due to underlying material changes, which is why the reactionary cause is generally doomed. at the risk of being glib: once you have a pension system and the ability to skip town, you cannot keep homosexuality in the closet forever. once you have a global communication network that allows people to have friends who don't share their physical location, you cannot use in-person or legal social pressure to mandate gender conformity forever.>>2819582on this topic they're 90% right and not the only person to have said similar things. i reject their premise that TERFism is a strand of feminism as opposed to a facile attempt to wokewash reactionary behavior, but the point about age is well taken and the point that the whole thing isn't just about transgenderism is particularly important.
i will not retread in detail for the thousandth time that the SNP were an unbreakable monolith until their crank wing decided they hated transgender people more than they loved scotland, culminating in the spectacle of
scottish nationalists cheering a supreme court declaration that scotland ceased to exist 300 years ago and will do what an english court and an english parliament tells it to do.
but suffice to say: when you're talking about an idea that can induce such behavior you are not talking about an abstract position on a pointless side issue, you are talking about a terrifying parasitic slug that has bitten into its host at the nape of the neck and is progressively
reactionarily? lol taking total control of the host and sacrificing everything they once held dear at the altar of banning salt.
even if you also don't like salt, you should be on your guard. you do not want to wake up one morning with a stinging nape and a pathological obsession with extirpating the menace of sodium.
>>2819603His argument about age is solely an attempt at normalising pedophilia, arguing that if trans children was medically transition, then he should be able to rape children, it's not a good faith argument.
Even ignoring that, and taking his argument to face value, as a society we prevent certain things to minors, such as working, driving, drinking, and plenty of other things. I don't think most of those things are done to control children as much as to keep them safe, it's not necessarly about parents controlling them, and I don't think these restrictions are necessarly wrong, and It's fair to say that children are sometime too immature to know what they actually want.
Now, for trans kids, the debate is mostly centered around medical operations, notable puberty blockers and hormonal treatement. Proponents argue that if we don't let them transition then they'll be mentally unhealthy, opponents argue that they're far too young to know what they want. Neither side (even if they might claim that) genuinly believe its up for the parents to choose, and both side argue that its what is good of the child ultimatly its more of a debate about how to treat gender dysphoria then about wheather we should remove the restrictions we place on children (neither side want that)
I can understand the argument that trans stuff affect other stuff, feminism is an obvious exemple (I somewhat disagree on you about TERFs, while some antifeminist women use the title and their arguments, the ideology in itself comes from feminist circles, Janice Raymond is good exemple) but what bothers me more is the preeminence of this issue over class issues, many leftists would be more welcoming to a pro-trans liberal party rather then a socialist transphobic one (people voting for the Libdems, typically), and it's obviously used as a wedge issue to divide the left (Your Party is a good exemple of that)
It's less that I have an issue with leftists talking about it, it's more the dogmatic and preeminence of it that bothers me. If I had to wager, I'd argue this is because neoliberalism was integrated itself to hard in society that cultural change is seen as more realistic then concrete material ones.
Obviously, this is the same on the anti-trans side, as you've shown by your SNP exemple.
>>2819574I'm not sure if I agree with the characterization of centrist parties as having done well on transgender rights, they've mostly used it as the sort of issue for various NGOs and thinktanks to bring into public debate and create an environment where they duke it out in the public space over symbolic victories like putting trans flags on company logos on one hand or declaring trans apartheid for massage parlors. Whereas the most important aspect of it to my mind, the healthcare part, remained byzantine and marred with bureaucratic compromise (like RLE or puberty blockers being required for several years) in the European public health systems, meaning it was functionally left up to the private healthcare providers or NGOs.
No other medical condition and subsequent treatment for it is this polarizing precisely because transition violates the anglo box definition mongering around gender. It’s fucking wild to cling onto bio and traditional genders when every step since industrialization has made your sex and physical strength far less important in how you live and get by. It makes sense for agrarian societies to be patriarchal, you need those strict roles and to pump out as many children as possible so you have labor on the farm. If everyone’s in an office hunched over a laptop or a deliveroo driver what the fuck is the practical quality of strict gender rules?
>>2819676It seems to me like the main reason trans people are so hated in this country is that feminists feel that it undermines the special victim status we have let them ascribe to the entire female gender. We should have never let them push misandry so far in the first place and elevate their own feminine divine bullshit.
Andy Burnham has just flipped to being anti-trans too now, stating he agrees with the Supreme Court and EHRC that yes all trans people should be banned from all single sex spaces.
All it took was a single Daily Mail headline complaining about him seemingly having trans inclusive views in the past for him to do a total 180 on this issue.
Hope that shuts up any morons who seriously thought he'd be remotely different to Starmer or Streeting.
>>2819642a pro-trans liberal party can be trusted to be a liberal party, an anti-trans socialist party is very likely to be an anti-trans party with red leaflets.
YP was doomed either way because its head boy doesn't really want to lead a party and his team are mostly duds, but insofar as it was split it wasn't really over trans issues in any major way. an independent MP held views at odds with the majority of people who wanted to join the party and, when pressured on it because they couldn't keep their mouth shut, quickly let spill that they weren't socialists and brought to wider attention that they were a landord and welcomed solidarity from zionists of similarly reactionary social views. as soon as the membership got to vote on policy, a commitment to trans liberation passed overwhelmingly. (and even then, not every no-vote was a TERF vote. a chunk of it was a "try to be a small target and fudge it" vote.)
>>2819716the problem with this thesis is that mumsnet is the hive of TERFism, not /r/radicalfeminism. there is a victim complex but it's much more the victim complex of the "silent minority" who resent everyone else for having it easier than they do and getting more respect than they do.
>>2819718hope he loses his seat tbh, even to reform. labour must go the way of the old liberal party.
Is anyone gonna write a sequel to “The Strange Death of Liberal England” about Labour and the Tories?
>>2819720I never said it's radical feminism, it's thoroughly mainstream and even reactionary. It's basically the unifying ideology of most women in the UK.
>>2819718Shitloads of melts will still say the greens should stand aside for him, and they probably fucking will.
>>2819720You're right that I simplified the Your party issues But I disagree with you that anti-trans left wing parties will necessarly betray their cause, since those kind of parties are fairly common outside the UK and especially outside Europe. But even in the UK, Galloway, of whom I am not a fan, would probably be more left wing economically then anyone in labour (and maybe even the Greens) as the working class are the ones backing it.
Beyond that, liberal parties can be disastrous, the Libdems after all, governed in coalition with the conservatives in 2010, leading the UK to the path its on now, anyone voting for the libdems nowadays is either anti-socialist or extremly naive.
>>2819753Doesn't WPGB have a whole bit about supporting small business? Not exactly proletarian stuff
>>2819755doubt so, from what I see they support a planned economy, but even then, Is there any party that doesn't claim to support small businesses? even the Greens do
https://greenparty.org.uk/2024/06/29/greens-launch-charter-for-small-business/ I'm not arguing they're great revolutionnaries or anything, but they have grassroot working class backing. If they magically came into power, I see them as more likely to do left wing economics then Labour.
>>2819753I would draw a distinction between conservative and reactionary anti-trans attitudes and policy. Generally, foreign leftists have such views in the "normal" way that all parties c. 1960 had those views but are not obsessed with them, while domestic types are reactionary and align themselves with a sort of obsessive hatedom for transgender people.
(metaphorically, think of how 20 years ago most men were very casually homophobic, but even by the morality of the time obsessive anti-gay preachers were clearly deranged freaks who thought about men fucking more than most homosexuals did. by contemporary morality both were wrong to act as they did, but the former was clearly an ordinary human foible while the latter was pathological.)
context counts for a lot.
(As for where Galloway sits, I would position him as an opportunist. That's the best explainer of his regular re-brands and pivots - latterly to Scottish nationalism of all things.)
>>2819760I mean maybe you're right, I did vote for WPGB once, but overall I agree with the point that you can't trust social conservatives, if someone is fundamentally spooked then you don't know what they will do, like a rattlesnake. You could never let your guard down with them.
Obviously, being socially liberal and capitalist isn't great either, but if they're socdem it might be a decent option
some fun information
>Four UK newspapers published 17,000 articles on ‘trans issues’ in five years, averaging 9 articles a day
>An average of 264 articles per month, around 9 per day
>Universally hostile coverage
>there are only like ~200,000 trans people in the entire country (e.g. one hostile article per 10 trans people.)
>>2819826There’s literally no hope for Britain until the Murdoch media is pulled out like a bot fly larvae from a hole in your skin
>>2819847Amnesty published it a few days ago
>>2819826Fucking brain parasite tier
>>2819642You are confusing me with that MAP guy that always makes threads about it. I also told him his pedosexuality was a doomed path anyway.
I was pointing out to him that that the right for an adolescent to choose taking HRT and an adult shagging an adolescent was pretty different.
I just agreed with him that moral panics around hebephilia was idiotic and homosexual/transgenders participating in out of sadism or revenge on the hetero male would bite them in the back (it did lmao).
>>2819948I get what you're saying but the recent nonsense has nothing to do with children and everything to do with adult trans people being segregated.
>Breaking: Row over Footy Scran escalates as Andy Burnham has reportedly been again barred from running for Labour leadership over "culinary crimes". PM Kier Starmer stated: "Times come in which ancient nations like Britain must change for the better. Footy Scran is like home, but eventually the children must grow up and leave home behind. Otherwise, things would rot." Financial Analysts have noted "This is good for the defence industry."
>Conservative shadow leader Kemi Badenoch has commented on the row, saying, "Sir Kier Starmer has once again proven that he does not truly care about our amazing British Values that led to us becoming the greatest Empire the world has ever known. It is food such as… mushy peas, and… soggy pies… that fueled our great British workforce." A photoshoot was taken where she ate a polystyrene tray full of mushy peas and a microwaved fray bentos pie. However, critics on X have noted her disgust at having to eat the food, and how she in fact did not eat it at all, speculating that she only mimed eating and threw the food down under the table from an angle the cameras weren't showing.
>Cllr Jake Blonde, influencer and youngest councillor for Reform in history at 14, posted on X: "Mushy Peas REform and Gravy Coin ($MPREG) pre-release now! Delve into a new dimension of economic growth based around traditional British values. This new cryptocurrency uses blockchain technology to enhance financial asset growth and has been marked as a number 1 growth sector by AI from beyond the Red Wall. It's not just a memecoin - it's the new economic paradigm. Buy now to show you're a true Brexit Geezer - and not a transhumanist."
Got an in-person job interview after five months of applying, jobcentre refusing to help me buy clothes for the interview. Don't have anything appropriate. Can't afford them. Going to have to shoplift them, love it here
>>2819990if you live in a city goto a non-local shopping retail unit, bring a carrier bag, stuff what you want into it, walk out and ignore the alarms and never return
easy shit
>>2819990I thought that was one of the things they do, since they said to me they would. But I guess they fucked you. Fuck the job centre.
I have no politics anymore except post-ironic Starmerism
>During his 2015 campaign for the Labour Party leadership, Andy Burnham pledged that his very first foreign state visit as leader would be to Israellol
>>2820014him winning a leadership election or not even facing a leadership challenge is the funniest outcome at this point
>>2820016Laughing at 22:12 when he begins explaining audience marketing and video production back to him
What the fuck is this video even about
>>2820120Bro lost everything and gained nothing
lol
All 140 million white Americans should be dropped in Britain
>>2820123There are only around 47 million English-Americans; the rest are from the continent.
>>2820122a fitting end to the toilet seat
>>2820154Their primary language is English, therefore they’re your problem now, good luck with NHS waiting lists
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54811-labours-voter-coalition-broke-more-to-left-than-right-at-2026-local-electionsVery funny to run Burnham in a seat where the conventional wisdom would be to pivot right to win the seat and evidentially that is his strategy when,
if it works, it will make the whole enterprise pointless because the only way he could save Labour at the national level is with a pivot to the left, and the first impressions he'll make during this campaign is that he's a U-turning Blairite wanker who literally voted for the Iraq war and who people only tolerated because Mayors have a piss easy job of doing photo opportunities with bus stations.
If he wins the byelection he'll be just as unpopular as Starmer by this time next year, perhaps less so. That is, assuming he can actually win a leadership contest. The funniest outcome of all is for him to scrape the byelection by the skin of his teeth and then lose a leadership contest to Starmer when the membership realize that he's morphed into the Thunderbirds version of Sir Keir before their very eyes.
>>2820235unfortunately the greens have chucked their candidate for 'antisemitism', so they probably will just concede the seat to Burnham, it's a stitchup as always
>>2820243horseshoe theory in action
>>2819990Go to a few charity shops they will have a suit for a tenner.
Why trying to oust Keir if it's to do the same thing as Keir?
>>2820335Narcissism of small differences
>>2820335so they can be the ones to get the brown envelopes instead of course.
>>2820335Slimy self obsessed sociopaths who have a constant urge to climb the ladder at any cost. They care mostly about power, money, and being a footnote in history.
And I suppose some of them like the other anon said have fallen so far down the "sensible moderate centrist" rabbit hole that they genuinely believe there would be a difference between them enough to change things.
>>2820335As well as the obvious ladder-climbing self interest, a lot of these people have blinders. They did exactly what they were told to do, what everyone in the press publicly said was what everyone wanted
privately of course they all said "fuck i hope these cretins have a secret plan to fix everything that they're not telling us about", what Morgan McSweeney the election genius told them would be massively popular and which won them a Blair tier landslide just 2 years ago, and the result is that they're the least popular government in British history and are staring down the biggest collapse of a party in British history.
It can't be that the left were right and that you have to at least offer Corbynism or, christ, Sturgeonism (e.g. do nothing but lots of nice left-liberal soundbytes), so it has to be that Sir Keir's stupid ham face and weirdo voice aren't conveying how great they are to the public. Swap him out for someone popular and their popularity will drag the party up with it. Burnham might be that man: People like him as Mayor when he's talking about buses, after all.
Or, for the Streeting fans, the problem is that they haven't been right wing enough, they've appointed an amoral lawyer to do a sociopathic serial killer's job.
Ironically because of the dynamics of the leadership contest (Burnham running in a Reform-friendly seat, Streeting needing members to vote for him) they're each triangulaing the other way. Streeting is trying to sound less like a man who pokes dogs in the eyes for kicks and Burnham has decided that actually, Sir Keir was right about everything after all.
>>2820335Careerism.
Burnham keeps saying that Starmer's doing a great job, yet he is also a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to take his position.
>>2820335Why did Judas give away Jesus to the Romans, only to then kill himself ?
Some people are willing to kill the greatest people in the world for mere scraps of glory.
>>2820684exactly, whoever is willing to betray starmer the christ may first see "victory" but will get destroyed in the process
>>2820684At least Judas repaid back the 30 pieces of silver and felt remorse. We see many others who are lesser men than he.
>>2820335maybe its about personality, andy burnham seems like a slightly more animated guy than keir who seems like a gray lawyer man robot.
anyways, lets see how long the next guys honymoon lasts until people start hating him too
TIL "You have just created a million Charlie Kirk" was coined by Graham Linehan
>>2820783How did he know ?
>>2820734It'll come, Andy's biggest fault that is relatively unknown to most is that he is a Zionist, once this is understood by the wider public hes going to face the same issue as Starmer in that no one sensible of left wing position will vote for a genocider who sucks IOF cock.
He voted for the Iraq war also.
Your choices for PM are:
Keir Starmer
>Careerist, centrist melt, transphobe, zionist, and member of Labour friends of Israel
>Purged the Socialists from Labour
>Says "meep meep" when startled
>Son of a tool maker
>Led the government that banned trans people from social spaces
>Supports Israel's genocide of the Palestinians
Wes Streeting
>Careerist, centrist melt, transphobe, zionist, and member of Labour friends of Israel
>Sold all of your NHS data (unencrypted and without any anonymity) to neo-reactionary, neo-fascist and dark enlightenment aligned genocidal AI weapons tech firm Palantir
>Is friendly with the anti-trans LGB Alliance and outlawed puberty blockers (but only for trans people)
Andy Burnham
>Careerist, centrist melt, transphobe, zionist, and member of Labour friends of Israel.
>Self-proclaimed "King of the North"
>Is friendly with the anti-trans LGB Alliance and dropped all his support for trans rights at the launch of his leadership bid
>Has stated there's an "unjustified spitefulness" towards Israel and that if elected Israel would be the first place he visits
What a riveting choice! I simply can't wait to see who'll win!
People don't dwell on how insane the supreme court ruling was because they focus on using it as a proxy for the trans issue instead of focusing on the legal detail: you are seriously being asked to believe that parliament passed a law which nobody understood for nearly 15 years, which cut directly against the intention of the law until that point, which the government did not understand (issuing a travel warning to the first US state to pass a bathroom ban even though - if the courts and current EHRC were right - the UK had the same laws!) which the courts themselves did not understand as late as 2021 (AEA v. EHRC)
This is a manifestly untenable position, but the alternative (i.e. reality) is a constitutional travesty: the court overrode the explicit legislative intentions and wording of the law of our sovereign parliament and effectively legislated in it's own right, something it has no right or standing to do.
Now obviously our constitution is a meme, but this has passed basically without comment because everyone cares more about the culture war than about boring little details like the entire constitutional structure of the country being upended overnight.
>>2820922And remember, one of the major reasons cited for leaving the EU is concern that EU law and the contrivances necessary to comply with it infringed on the principle of parliamentary sovereignty!
Odd how quiet such sovereign parliament enjoyers have become in the face of an outright assault on that principle.
Guys, you’ll never achieve liberation if you don’t think radically, and you’ll never think radically so long as you’re tethered to bourgeois moralisms that upholds the current power structure and leaves no one untouched (e.g., Huw Edwards, just for holding onto harmless pixels on his device). Are mass censorship, state surveillance, mass brainrot and getting bullied by the ChudIntern via CPT (source:
https://www.highly-respected.com/p/critical-pedo-theory) really worth it just to virtual signal how much of a Good Human Being (TM) you are?
Be free from moralisms, and then you’ll be able to be unchained from the current dialectics imposed by the gammons and their opportunistic leaders.
(USER ALREADY BANNED)>>2821485what I say when my wife asks me why I sold off our house for online gambling
>>2820905Rule number 1 of every Anglo country: It’s easier to count the number of sitting representatives that are anti-Zionist than the reverse.
>>2821540On your fingers, naturally.
>>2821485It wouldnt be /leftybritpol/ without nonce posting, welcome back Mr Saville
>>2820905an authentic communist who agrees with me on everything could be next in line and I would still support Keir Starmer.
Why ? Because I know that I know nothing, I am a vulgar idiot who doesn't know anything about the world. All humans are.
But Keir is beyond humanity, he has achieved greatness and reached the Ouroborus, therefore, I stand with Keir Until the end of times, no matter what he will do.
Andy Arnold, a former tattooist and newly elected Reform councillor for Wombwell in Barnsley is in trouble - for having a swastika tattoo on his forearm.
His wife, Theresa Arnold, also a newly elected Reform councillor for Wombwell - has defended it saying that actually the swastika tattoo is "misunderstood" and that it's actually a "Buddhist symbol".
For record neither Andy nor Theresa appear to be practicing Buddhists. I'm also fairly certain most Buddhists do not have swastika tattoos.
Also of note is that Lee Anderson visited his tattoo studio for a Reform photo shoot, where said swastika tattoo was clearly visible and he also seemingly took no issue with it.
I know calling Anderson thick as pig shit is an understatement but I doubt even he could miss a fucking swastika on his mate's arm.
>>2821622It is actually a QOS tattoo
>>2821622This is the difference between a party that doesn't give a fuck and just wants to win, and the Greens, who suspend people long before the media is upset about anything. Obviously Nazis should be lynched but I would prefer our parties to act more like this and tell the media to fuck off
>>2821631True. I don't why leftist and liberals in the UK turned out like this. On the continent leftists arent gigacuck like this. Even german leftists who worship israel and jewish feelings do it because they truly believe in it not to avoid confrontation.
>>2821634The primary reason is because the Greens leadership are controlled opposition that are probably under pressure from Mossad, but in addition, the left has no way to effectively counter what I would call 'professional victims' who make their political career out of complaining in bad faith about things in order to wreck any actual forward movement, if someone from a minority group (or claiming they are) says they're offended by something, then generally everyone else feels like they have to fold like a pack of cards (or at the very least put in 10x more effort to appease this person than it deserves) or else they'll be cancelled or whatever, even if the criticism is totally idiotic.
The Greens MP candidate in the Andy Burnham election was forced to step down over social media posts he made suggesting that the Ambulance arson attack was a false flag, which is probably was. Of course it was silly to say that publicly but the Greens could have absolutely stonewalled the media and said the quotes were taken out of context, the screenshots are fake, or come out with the evidence that it is a false flag (this is in my dream world of course), until after the election like Reform have done about all their Nazi councillors.
Instead they stab their own people in the back to let an arch Zionist like Burnham contest the PMship. What a joke.
>>2821636your argument is not particularly strong because it relies on some "they're controlled opposition!" nonsense, which while possible just leads to brainworms, likewise if you get caught on shit like this, there's no gain in keeping them as a candidate because it simply allows them to make more nonsensical attacks. and will just cause your party to lose connections to reality
>>2821647I mean how else do you explain Zack Polanski's (I will remind you he changed his name to sound more Jewish for political reasons and used that as weaponised idpol) actions other than that he's controlled opposition to channel anti Zionist feeling into a kept party? He just represents an anti-Likud liberal Zionist faction.
>if you get caught on shit like this, there's no gain in keeping them as a candidate because it simply allows them to make more nonsensical attacksThere is a gain because it allows you to actually contest elections and potentially keep Burnham out of power - a supposedly 'left wing' figurehead taking over Labour is the worst thing that could happen to the Greens. You can let him resign from the Greens after the election if he really is such an embarassment and managed to get elected, it would still be one more friendly MP.
>>2821651>I mean how else do you explain Zack Polanski's (I will remind you he changed his name to sound more Jewish for political reasons and used that as weaponised idpol) actions other than that he's controlled opposition to channel anti Zionist feeling into a kept party? He just represents an anti-Likud liberal Zionist faction.again, what does that even mean? and yeah if a party doesn't want to give complete support to a collapsing state, it'd be prudent to have a man who is obviously jewish to lead it, to make the criticism far harder to stick
>There is a gain because it allows you to actually contest elections and potentially keep Burnham out of power - a supposedly 'left wing' figurehead taking over Labour is the worst thing that could happen to the Greens. You can let him resign from the Greens after the election if he really is such an embarassment and managed to get elected, it would still be one more friendly MP.would it be that bad? it'd just kick the can for labour's inveitable collapse down the road, rather than having it now, it also almost certainly wouldn't have made a difference either way
>>2821660>again, what does that even mean? and yeah if a party doesn't want to give complete support to a collapsing state, it'd be prudent to have a man who is obviously jewish to lead it, to make the criticism far harder to stickI would maybe agree with this argument if Polanski was actually trustworthy as a left winger and not very recently a Zionist shill who said Corbyn must go.
>would it be that bad? it'd just kick the can for labour's inveitable collapse down the road, rather than having it now, it also almost certainly wouldn't have made a difference either wayYes obviously it's bad? You don't get momentum like the Greens have right now just for free, it is a historic moment for the party they should be trying to take advantage of, if a supposed left winger gets in charge of the Greens then many people who are voting green now will be tempted back and people who might have switched from Labour at the next election to greens after seeing how terribly they did at this election now won't.
>>2821677*gets in charge of labour, rather.
>>2821677>I would maybe agree with this argument if Polanski was actually trustworthy as a left winger and not very recently a Zionist shill who said Corbyn must go.well you can change your beliefs upon seeing new evidence, it'd be hard for anyone who wasn't married to the state of israel to watch the gaza genocide and still support its current path
>Yes obviously it's bad? You don't get momentum like the Greens have right now just for free, it is a historic moment for the party they should be trying to take advantage of, if a supposed left winger gets in charge of the Greens then many people who are voting green now will be tempted back and people who might have switched from Labour at the next election to greens after seeing how terribly they did at this election now won't.burnham winning at best would just delay the issue of labour collapsing as i already said, likewise it's not as if the greens will have the life sucked out of them, it takes more than just a "left winger" winning in the labour party for things to change, as you can't just instantly get back all that faith they lost by being centrists, obviously yes it'd be better if a greens member won the seat, but it'd also be better if burnham wins, but then reveals himself to be simply another centrist
>>2821696Why would we want to delay Labour collapsing? It should collapse ASAP so we can get on with better politics. Yes it will suck the life out of the Greens absolutely, it will be presented as 'we hear you. we listened' bullshit.
>obviously yes it'd be better if a greens member won the seatok so why are they not running anyone then?
>>2821696Also, if you believe Zach is anything other than a craven opportunity, then GG I guess, I can't stop you. The only reason he left the Libdems is that they wouldn't let him advance up the ranks fast enough.
>>2821705>Why would we want to delay Labour collapsing? It should collapse ASAP so we can get on with better politics. Yes it will suck the life out of the Greens absolutely, it will be presented as 'we hear you. we listened' bullshit.the labour party collapsing now or in 2 years doesn't really change anything because they're already moribund, also the whole "it'll suck the life out of the green party!" is nothing but a presumption on the fact that people will just go back to a shitty party, because it has a more tolerable face, rather than stick for something they know is highly unlikely to become a centrist, highly opportunist party
>>2821707it doesn't matter what zack is really, but that he is a shield is what actually matters
Zack personally is entirely irrelevant. I don't understand why people are hung up on him, either in support or opposition.
What matters is he and/or the Greens can be used to push politics leftwards.
If they can't even do that then hurry up and create a new vehicle for leftist politics to succeed on this island.
>>2821737well it does look like it's working to do that, even if it isn't as much as others want them to, the honest question is what's gonna happen to the reform party in 2-3 years?
>>2821713>the labour party collapsing now or in 2 years doesn't really change anythingit will change this country hugely for the worse, with that logic why do anything? eventually the people we hate will just die anyways. we need change now, not in 2 years or 5 years, obviously we can't always decide when things will happen but we should do everything we can to push labour into destroying itself ASAP.
how on earth could it not matter who Zach is, he's the leader? If you're saying he's just a puppet then ok, it matters who stands behind him and makes the decisions.
>>2821743what's gonna happen? what do you mean? they're gonna be in charge of the country at this rate.
>>2821754>it will change this country hugely for the worse, with that logic why do anything? eventually the people we hate will just die anyways. we need change now, not in 2 years or 5 years, obviously we can't always decide when things will happen but we should do everything we can to push labour into destroying itself ASAP.it's an open question to see whether it'll even be enough for burnham to win, or whether it's gonna be such a big sweep that it saves the labour party, and i still highly doubt it'd matter, i think honestly you just want to complain
>how on earth could it not matter who Zach is, he's the leader? If you're saying he's just a puppet then ok, it matters who stands behind him and makes the decisions.it doesn't really matter because he took up the position to be a figurehead, it's everyone else in the party you'd worry about, who seem to be competent enough and wary of even more media slander as it is
>what's gonna happen? what do you mean? they're gonna be in charge of the country at this rate.they don't enough represent more than a handful of districts, and in the councils they're already facing major problems, if the party gains enough power to form a government, then i doubt they'll survive given it's a highly personalist and more importantly, a power who wants the power of governance, but not its responsibility, so yeah it's important to ask what they'll be in a few years
>>2821634Leftists and Liberals are more apologetic because they are high in agreeableness and politics is fundamentally downstream of personality.
For basically any problem, the attitude of a leftist/liberal will be "how can I help?" while the attitude of a rightoid will be a cuntish smirk and "tough tits"
>>2821636This explanation cannot account for why the left have generally come to accept that Labour's antisemitism crisis was a wrecking operation, that Israeli feelings don't matter, and that TERFs never have "legitimate concerns" but are always acting in bad faith.
Not to mention a general eyerolling whenever someone like Badenoch, Braverman, or Mahmood tries to play the race card to offset the fact they've clearly been appointed to the position of chief racists because of the brain genius strategy that says nobody will think they're racists doing racist policy if they're not white.
>>2821651>>2821705The Greens didn't withdraw from contesting the election, they withdrew a specific candidate and will select another.
>“As a party, we are reopening nominations now because we believe people in Makerfield deserve a real choice at this byelection, and the Green party will be standing to offer exactly that.>>2821677If Polanski was controlled opposition they wouldn't be going through his council tax records to accuse him of being a tax dodger for living on a houseboat, getting a guy on prime-time BBC news to go "ohh, he must explain himself, there are questions to answer :^)" when that same guy was told hours earlier - and replied to and accepted the argument - that most people in the same circumstances at those moorings didn't pay their council tax because the council never informed them that they were supposed to and standard practice is for the owner of the mooring, not the boat, to pay the tax as part of the mooring fees.
(In the last 35 years, just one person has paid it.)
>>2821707Frankly there's nothing wrong with a competent opportunist. The opportunist options in this country if you want to be a long-lasting PM primarily involve a move to the left and pandering to the left.
Thoughts on King Brân?
>>2822019liz truss is the theory
nige is the praxis
he'll loot all the old biddies pensions this time round.
>>2822359
>Furthermore, almost two-thirds of respondents reported household earnings under £30,000 a year, and a quarter had experienced homelessness.
but /leftybritpol/ told me that trans people were all middle class wankers :(
also: taped on at the end is the note that "Last month, Nigel Farage's Reform UK party was accused of “pitching for the votes of misogynists, homophobes, racists and antisemites” after Suella Braverman, the party's new equalities chief, announced plans to scrap the Equality Act." which fits oddly with the rest of the article given the butchering of the EA2010 by the judiciary and successive governments stacking the EHRC with anti-equality cranks have had the cumulative effect of making the EA2010 an instrument of inequality in this country.
"We'll abolish the EA2010" is a right-wing slop pitch, but in terms of it's actual impact it'd be a hell of a lot better than the status quo. one of the weaknesses of the Greens is that they'd never surprise everyone by adopting the same stance because it sounds bad and because they're naive to the scale of the problem. the Supreme Court should be abolished and the EA2010 repealed.
>>2822571how are labour going to compete? everyone fucking hates them. greens at least have a chance
>>2822575Keir will lose, he will be kicked out by the Labour party and many would wrongly believe he'd be gone.
Farage will believe he'll win, the greens will sense their opportuniry, but do Monophysites understand the physical nature of the world ?
For sure, is that few will understand the result of the election, a miracle will happen, the ballots will, somehow give that Keir Starmer has won every vote in the country, and it is only then that we will understand the weight of our crimes, Starmer has offered forgiveness and we have rejected him, then what else is there ? He will purge the idols and the idôlatres in the realm, and his great eyes will set beyond the Pale.
>>2822575Polls seem to show Labour ahead of the Greens, even recently. Maybe Burnham can boost Labour more, I don't know. Alternatively they could just implement better policies. Taking a more pro-Europe stance might help them.
I don't think the Greens could keep Reform out of number 10. One Green policy is to get rid of Britain's nukes unilaterally. I think a lot of voters would be wary of that kind of thing.
>>2822571>>2822575>>2822577>>2822584If there's any sense in Labour and the Greens, they will form a co-alition, but it seems that nobody wants to build anything, but rather just knock things down. In any case, I have populist fatigue and just want competent managers to keep the trains running on time.
>>2822267Nigel will never do this lmao
>>2822571How are Labour gonna make it without a coalition with the Greens and possibly LibDem?
>>2822584>Taking a more pro-Europe stance might help them.I would even say it's capital and inevitable. They better not let the right get on that train before them.
>>2822586>I have populist fatigue and just want competent managers to keep the trains running on time.The problem is the based technocratic managers arent much brighter than the slopulists in 2026.
>>2822571No. The most credible alternative to a Reform lead government is some kind of Frankenstein coalition of Greens, Labour, Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid, and in such circumstances it's very unlikely that Labour remain the largest center-left party.
But such circumstances are unlikely because Labour have no clear route to passing proportional representation since Burnham has declared he'll only put it in their 2028 manifesto, and absent electoral Reform before 2028 a Reform government is guaranteed and the need to punish Labour is ever more pressing.
>>2822584If Burnham becomes PM he will be as unpopular as Starmer within a year. Getting rid of "Britain's" nukes unilaterally is a good policy and the death-fetishing mongs who oppose it are dying off year by year. Even if you're a warmonger, why the fuck are we spending billions of pounds on missiles that haven't been successfully test-fired in nearly 20 years since we're only really leasing them from America and America always gives us the duds they know don't work and keeps the working ones for themselves?
(The answer involves old men with erectile dysfunction)
>>2822586I also have a certain populist fatigue, but this only increases my loathing for Labour. They could've spent 2019-2024 drawing up actual plans to fix things, even with a substantial move to the right, but they didn't do this. They spent the entirety of their time plotting to destroy their own party's support base. This is just about the only thing more stupid than populism.
If Labour were smart they would've come in with a big pile of reforms that would hurt some groups but advantage others. As an example: imagine they were to slash pensions and give half the money away in tax cuts and use half to balance the books. Now, I'm not endorsing that in particular, but if they'd done that it would've gone down
better than their more mild attempts at cutting winter fuel payments because the tax cuts would create winners who would defend the policy because they want their money to offset the people infuriated by the change. Nobody wants cuts for the sake of cuts, but Paul will generally support robbing Peter to pay Paul.
More generally, if you ram through a huge pile of changes very quickly, people will only be able to rally opposition to some of them. The piecemeal approach of this government has made it trivial for opposition to mount to every little change, and every little change has also been shit in isolation.
Even technocratically: I would have them all jailed for not having a plan to abolish national insurance or to convert it into a real social insurance scheme. As it stands it is the dumbest thing imaginable, a second income tax that you don't pay if you're a retiree or pensioner, which is capped above £150k or so meaning it's also deeply regressive. Lunacy and incompetence.
>>2822605An anti-Reform coalition is an interesting idea. But yeah, Labour probably won't sign up to that, which is pretty dumb.
>Getting rid of "Britain's" nukes unilaterally is a good policy and the death-fetishing mongs who oppose it are dying off year by year. Even if you're a warmonger, why the fuck are we spending billions of pounds on missiles that haven't been successfully test-fired in nearly 20 years since we're only really leasing them from America and America always gives us the duds they know don't work and keeps the working ones for themselves?Nukes deter foreign powers (Russia and China for example) from messing with the UK more than they already do. I agree that the UK's reliance on American missiles is not great. France is in a better position because they built their own missiles. Perhaps the UK could explore joint development of nuclear missiles with the French.
>>2822584I hope that a few more disastrous election results for Labour might push more people to Greens idk. But maybe you're right.
>>2822586Starmer was supposed to be a 'competent manager', those people are even more evil than the populists. At least populists have some kind of ideology.
>>2822605PR could save us from Reform, and make the country much better, but they won't do it for their own careerist reasons. Even though 75% of Labour MPs will lose their jobs at the next election anyway.
>>2822606Nukes might be one thing for a proud socialist nation fighting to have independence but who is going to invade us? What do we even have to take that's worth anything? We shouldn't be worried about 'deterrence' when nobody cares about attacking us anyway and that money could be much better used on basic social services.
>>2822607>Nukes might be one thing for a proud socialist nation fighting to have independence but who is going to invade us? What do we even have to take that's worth anything? We shouldn't be worried about 'deterrence' when nobody cares about attacking us anywaySome leading figures in Russia seem to fantasise about attacking the UK:
>Russian TV Hosts Discuss Nuclear Strikes on U.K, France, Germanyhttps://www.newsweek.com/russia-sarmat-moscow-ukraine-britain-1702086
>and that money could be much better used on basic social services.Social services are important, yes. Maybe we can tax wealth a bit more to fund public services.
>>2822607>Nukes might be one thing for a proud socialist nation fighting to have independence but who is going to invade us? What do we even have to take that's worth anything? We shouldn't be worried about 'deterrence' when nobody cares about attacking us anyway and that money could be much better used on basic social services.Except they're not going to be used for social spending unless the bond market allows it, but the nukes are going to be very handy if TERF island undergoes a revolution
>>2822606There's no actual evidence that nukes deter foreign powers from messing with Britain. China bullied us into giving back Hong Kong and buys up our MPs partners as spies, Russian planes regularly intrude on British airspace and submarines enter its water, and they have posioned multiple people on British soil, and are (depending on who you listen to) probably bankrolling the next government of the country. We're buying rocks that supposedly deter tigers and then getting bitten anyway.
If the press know our nukes are all duds, the Russians surely do too. A functioning conventional army (look at what Japan gets for basically the same level of spending!) would be a much greater deterrent than missiles that don't work and which America wouldn't let us use independently anyway.
Alternatively we could go for the French option and make our own (but that would cost more money and still rest on the generally flawed theory that Britain should be a world power instead of being a nice place to live), or even buy into the French program as part of a wider European project. Those would still be more intellectually coherent than the status quo.
>>2822611Exactly.
>>2822608>Social services are important, yes. Maybe we can tax wealth a bit more to fund public services.I don't disagree with that obviously but unless we have the best quality of life in the world, spending money on nukes would still be a waste.
>>2822611>buy into the French program as part of a wider European projectYeah that could be sensible.
>Russian planes regularly intrude on British airspace and submarines enter its water, and they have posioned multiple people on British soilYes, but if the UK was even more defenceless then Russia might go further.
>the generally flawed theory that Britain should be a world power instead of being a nice place to liveI'm not saying the UK should go and interfere around the world. I just think that in order for ordinary people to have good lives, there needs to be a way to protect such people. To me it seems that America/Russia/China all have imperialist ambitions (for example regarding Greenland, Ukraine, and Taiwan respectively). Those imperial ambitions could expand and threaten the UK. Putin would probably love to take more of Europe if it were easy for him to do so.
>>2822611>China bullied us into giving back Hong Kongaka 'China ensured that the white person actually follows the contract they signed'
>>2822638Why would Putin want to invade the UK exactly? Please stop letting mainstream media rot your brain. Like he's already having enough trouble with Ukraine and at least that's on his border and a relatively compatible culture where many people are russian speakers
>>2822638Also, our nuclear program could never defend us from the USA, the world's biggest imperialist, because they control the maintenance of it. They almost certainly have some kind of killswitch or backdoor built in so we wouldn't even be able to use them if we started trending away from USA.
>>2822649
you WILL lose your colony whitoid
>>2822656
50 rubles have been deposited in your account, Ivan
>>2822649
They literally didn't. One of the conditions for the handover was HK remaining capitalist. HK is still capitalist to this very day.
>>2822638It doesn't follow that those countries ambitions pose any major threat to life in Britain. Russia wants Ukraine because it regards it as being rightfully Russian and it was historically controlled by Russia, the same is true for China and Taiwan (and on the inverse, half of Taiwan think they own mainland China.). There is no sensible reason that Britain would stake a claim to them. At the height of the British empire, we didn't randomly go mad and decide that we were the rightful rulers of Portugal, Spain, Hungary or Italy. We bullied China, sure, but we never tried to conquer any of the East Asian countries outright.
Why would China or Russia be any different? They're scary if you live in Asia or Eastern Europe respectively, but the worst thing that would happen to us in a Russian/Chinese dominated world is that we'd be irrelevant, or at a push that they'd demand to build their own trading port on the Isle of Wight or Shetland or something.
America is a different case, with their claim to Greenland coming from map-game brained idiots and there being no bounds on that kind of stupidity. But if America decided it wanted to conquer Britain, it's impossible to imagine us actually fighting it. The entire thrust of our policy since Suez has to be a bit player in the American empire. Plus we speak the same language give or take a few "u"s, so it's not like integrating would be burdensome.
This would tie into a wider point that defense spending is almost always a meme. Unless you're up against something like Nazi Germany, the economics of fighting a great power war are basically always terrible. There are basically no demands that a foreign power could make that would be so onerous as to justify fighting.
(That isn't to say a conventional military is worth it, because a conventional military ups the costs of making such demands. It lets you go "or else what?" and without any of the taboo around nuclear weapons which makes them basically useless. Nobody is nuking anybody over preferential trade access or far-flung colonial ports.)
>>2822641Technically Britain had the rights to Hong Kong island permanently, it was just the new territories that were leased. China did, however, point out that Britain could do nothing if they just decided to take Hong Kong island, something Thatcher meekly accepted instead of going "um actually we've got nuclear weapons you can't talk to me like that."
But more to the point: if Britain is to be held to the standards of a normal country and not those of an imperial power, does that not further make the point that Trident isn't doing its job?
>>2822661>>2822662Having been to Hong Kong let me tell you of an acronym everyone in it is aware of;
'FILTH'
Failed in London, Try Hong Kong.
>>2822660
How's USSR doing?
>>2822660
Putin's bunker status?
>>2822668
you realize this is actually a more embarrassing explanation for the collapse of the USSR than normal, right?
"the only reason my emotional support failed state collapsed was because its system of choosing leaders was so bad, it chose people who followed the advice of people i consider obviously dumb"
have some self respect, even ancaps think more highly of the USSR than this.
>>2822668
Outed yourself as a pseud with no historical knowledge. Also if the USSR is not western then I'm not a western leftist either. Sorry to disappoint but most "AES" failed or dropped socialism completely.
>>2822673>mfw AES countries not under direct siege of capitalists vastly outpace the development and house ownership % of all other western countriesGermany looks like an utter shithole stuck in the excesses of liberal drug war, nanny state + mass unemployment terminal decline relative to the shit going on in China or NK.
>>2822678I'm not G*rman and I don't intend on denying their achievements in these metrics and industrialization etc. But it's a fact that most of them either failed or adopted slightly less retarded and predatory versions of neoliberal economic reform
>>2822680>didnt read marx award>doesnt understand basic marxist economic development theoryread the book
>>2822681>u-uh actually AES becoming surveillance states and either collapsing or regressing into social democracy without the democracy is le true socialism, marx says so!retard
>>2822683most sensible people dont act like authority figures about books they havent read, people who do that usually get humbled.
>>2822681What suggests that I haven't read Marx? I've read vol. 1, gotha kritik, etc.
>>2822686so you do understand the development of economies?
you understand state capitalism is a thing separate from liberal service capitalism???
>>2822684
e.g. it was an incompetent state incapable of protecting itself against infiltration and as such was doomed from the start.
>>2822684
zionist kruschevites you say? just say DA JOOOOOZ RUINED MY WHOLESOME USSR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>2822687It's distinctive for sure, but ultimately still a capitalist model of development with an expiration date like post-war social democracy
>>2822704>expiration dateYes, it will expire into something better, China is clearly progressing while our economic models are regressing, this is obvious to anyone with functioning eyes.
>>2822709Whether it expires into something better or gets cannibalized by finance porky doesn't necessarily depend on China itself. If there's no revolution in the imperial core (or in China tbh), they'll be forced to sell the country for pennies when they experience an accumulation crisis
>>2822712China had its revolution already, what more do you want?
Expecting the Chinese proles to burn down a government they overwhelmingly support and of whom they are composed of is some peak arrogant westerner shit. (and yes its a democracy, they vote more on things that actually matter than we can even dream of in whatever facade we have)
>>2822714I'm talking about a revolution in the relations of production, not necessarily the government unless revisionist influence in the CPC will make the party oppose such a development. Don't forget that there's a big chunk of the party that believes in market socialism (social democracy) and thinks it's always going to be pragmatic.
>>2822716China's supreme court just ruled that gender identity and expression are categories protected by anti-discrimination law. Minors can transition there too btw. Anti-trans apartheid laws are signs of a declining, barbarizing society, which China isn't unlike the UK.
>>2822656
Didn't say they're gonna lose but it doesn't exactly give confidence in their ability to easily conquer the rest of Europe. That won't change whether we have nukes or not.
If i could, I would hack that bourgeois imperialist monster Xi Xingping's head off with a machete. Death to the Chinese Imperialists. Let their cries of fear fill the night air as red guards storm their evil mansions and liquidate all bourgeois.
>>2822898why don't you start with donnie or bibi
>>2822899Them first. But all Imperialists will be beheaded.
China is the most capitalist nation today.
>>2822720It will never cease to amaze me how “conservative” countries like China, Iran, India, Pakistan and Russia have transgender rights than the bastion of liberalism that is the UK. The reverse is true when it comes to homophobia.
Even before the rise of TERFism, you had certain Christian fundies being softer on trans people than gay people.
I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that modern transphobia in the west is basically a liberal project at its core since it was started off by liberals from the New Atheist movement as well as TERFs who are bourgeois radlibs.
So why is it that said liberals are fervently for gay rights but are also massive transphobes (e.g., JK Rowling)? Is it because trans identities somehow violate liberal core tenets or what?
>>2823123it will sound schizo but: because they aren't liberals in any meaningful sense, they're (for want of a better term) imperialists. empire demands that citizens be made legible and you piss all over that if you go "actually, the categories on the form are really just vibes"
changing your legal name is a bit of a faff for a reason, changing your legal gender is a nightmare for a reason, changing your nationality is a nightmare for a reason: because you are a resource to be administered by an empire and keeping track of these details is annoying.
their (it must be remembered: very belated) sympathy for gay rights can be explained because it was really an expansion of this framework: the main gay rights cause they cared for was marriage, and allowing gay and lesbian people to marry one another increases their legibility to the empire by entering their relationships into formal legal recognition. combined with recording sex as an immutable category, you can still work out (for example) your country's reproductive capacity with some accuracy.
of course, most of them only dimly understand this. they are angry that there is a violation of a category, but they obviously wouldn't articulate that the reason is because they're in a mental world created by 19th century imperial bureaucrats and they object to the idea that an imperial subject can self-define like a human being and that (gasp) a servant of her majesty might have to refer to them by their preferred title.
no, it's always because transgender people must pose a threat to homosexuals (what would they be without their category?), to women (they are the second sex, and now you want to rob them even of that?!), to the comfort of all normal and right-thinking people…
i would consider liberals something more like the SNP. they have been completely useless and incompetent in the last decade, but their baseline assumption is that transgender rights are a good thing rather than a threat to sacred imperial taxonomies because the world they inhabit is one of individuals and tiny little irrelevant countries with no grandiose imperial or foreign policy visions.
there's also a personality factor. there's a lot of crossover between low agreeableness, the reactionary half of new atheism, and the imperial mindset which i would surmise as "how dare you tell ME what to do?", which can be a liberal instinct when universalized but which from these people always comes with the implicit understanding that they can tell you what to do. When you do it, it's a threat to liberty, when they do it, it's just common sense… >>2823123>I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that modern transphobia in the west is basically a liberal project at its coreDegenrate Leftism more than "liberal" but yes for the most part.
I don't know why leftist have to attack liberals for this, they have been consistently pro-trans rights in a very straightfoward manner, the center-right in europe was polite too.
Even during Peak Woke leftists posting mein kampf tier stuff but about transgenders was very common. That fatass brown lolcow from the astroturfed webzine Reduxx for example was a common sight in every leftoids twitter TL until recently. The entire ACPsphere, duginists, Xiposter PLA cosplayers etc. Rowling is a socdem Labourite too not a liberal. Radical feminism is very leftist tradition that bastardise marxism with female identitarism.
To say Hillary Clinton, Ed Davey or Joe Biden did this is straight up nutcase behavior. It's not John Rawls disciples that have pushed for TTD but leftistly for decades.
When Trump did a transgender military ban (2 times now) it was liberals who protested and tried to overtun it (they did it once so far) while leftists were posting threads to explain why it's actually cool he did this because transgenders shouldnt participate in da scary blacked wojak imperial machine or wathever.
Very bad to lie like this.
>Even before the rise of TERFism, you had certain Christian fundies being softer on trans people than gay people.Overstated. The average visible transgender back then was a low i q protitute ODing on the pavement. Active transphobia became a thing when trans people became belligerent upwardly mobile and/or accepted by their middle class and upper class families, that's when normies and other sacred cow minorities felt their status was being threatened by the high I Q upcoming demographic in the job market.
Trans becoming economically viable and succesful is what did this. This is also why the subdemographic facing the most vitriol are young white MtF followed by young white FtM, the non-asiatic racial transgenders being mostly mentally ill deplorable poor and seen as a nonfactor by anti-trans advocates.
>>2823141Uncorrect theory because integrating transgenders also increased their legibility to wathever empire they belong to. And homosexuals don't have higher TFR than transgenders, both being minuscule.
Gays were also just as pushy and not respectful of people's boundaries: "bake the cake", let me adopt, let me enlist, let me marry, give me acces to X space that normally don't etc.
Trans as more subversive than Gay is observably false narrative and a very recent retcon. It used to eb classified as a mental illness like 25 years ago lol.
>>2822720>Anti-trans apartheid laws are signs of a declining, barbarizing societyVery well said. And we can see the long steady decline of the Roman civilization during and after it's subvertion by Christianity to examplify this. Everything just got worse despite increasingly banning all acts of "degeneracy" from same-sex activity to gender deviances and body modifications.
The western empire got plunged into hysterical invasive moralistic culture wars as their economy, war capacity, infrastructures, artistic capabilities and racial demographic collapsed and we all know how that ended up.
>>2823606>Gays were also just as pushy and not respectful of people's boundaries.I think its less about people's boundaries and the activism but more so about the demands of the trans activists being very different then from the gay ones. There are reasons why support for trans stuff is decling while gay right is stagnant, people are genuinly more favorable to gay people then trans people.
The gay's main argument, was essentially that they were normal people in love with someone of the same sex. Ultimatly it didn't really affect most people if they weren't themselves gay, so why oppose it ? People can still be mildly homophobic and be fine with gay marriage.
Trans activists want to be seen as the gender they view themselves as, but that expects other people to agree with them, most don't really.
More generally the "not a choice" argument works a lot less for trans people then for gay people, everyone has experience falling in love, most don't have experience feeling like you're another gender.
Finally, there is also the worry for children, if a child thinks he's gay but then backtracks, no one is harmed, worst case scenario he has a crap relationship with some boyfriend.
If a child is transgender and starts doing the medical operations, he could fuck over his life if he later regrets it. I also think the argument of "letting trans kids transition or they'll kill themselves" is shitty optic and just make trans activists sounds neurotic.
More generally, we live in a society with large difference between men and women, for both social and biological reasons, and people can feel as odds when they feel like those difference are threatened.
>The western empire got plunged into hysterical invasive moralistic culture wars as their economy, war capacity, infrastructures, artistic capabilities and racial demographic collapsed and we all know how that ended up.If there were trans people in ancien Rome, they wouldn't be well regarded properly, feminine men were viewed as being disgusting weak and foreign.
The pagans also actively practiced culture war type stuff, there were two religious persecutions in pagan rome, Christians and the cult of Bacchus during the republic, they were seen as being degenerate and promoting equality between men and women.
As for the fall of Rome, hard to say much about the role of christianity, but the divisions it caused were less about the persecution of certain activities but more so about the religous conflict, both with the pagans and with itself.
But there are also obvious political causes for the fall of Rome, the empire was large and when Sassan took over Persia, the empire had a strong rival to defend itself against, then the movement of the Germanic tribes overstreched the empire, leading to a series of events that caused the fall of the empire.
But there is the reasons the emperors of the empire that killed christ took his religion. Christianity offered the empire a way to unite the country around a single religion. I would say that the empire survived in the east because it was christians, or else the different local identities would try to take independance (Egypt being the most obvious case)
In the west, it also allowed for the integration of the germanic people into a roman society, the kingdoms of the Franks and Visigoths were more so a declaration of independance by local rulers then an invasion. They were romans in nearly all but name (both the name of their state and of their kings) their gods and mythology were abandonned. Could this have been done without Christianity ?
>>2823606>That fatass brown lolcow from the astroturfed webzine ReduxxYou mean Anna Slatz, that fatass Scientologist who got into hot waters for interviewing (more like giving free publicity) some pro-Ukraine Neo-Nazi at a university newspaper that she worked in, and who got more racist (and anti-Semitic) as time went on whilst lying in ways the average man could never get away with without social media clout?
She honestly pisses me off for getting away with outrageous lies and disregard for journalistic ethics, be it that time she lied about an Indian student getting food stamps (see:
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/an-international-student-posted-a-video-on-how-to-get-free-food-in-canada-what-came-next-was-an-angry-mob-and-death-threats) or when she gave personal info of one of the plaintiffs against Jessica Yaniv to a random anon who then showed the receipts of Slatz’s misdeeds online (see:
https://justpaste.it/2qk1q).
Those are the ones that come off on the top of my head. I’m sure she ruined other people’s lives with her lies. Unsurprisingly, she is a kiwifarm member and also a favourite among gamergaters because chuds will overlook misandry in favour of “based” TTD advocates. Scoundrels of a feather flock together, as the saying goes.
As for trans rights, Idk about you but personally I think there wouldn’t be as much of a culture war thing around it if transmed folx won out and made the trans rights movement more of a disability rights group working under a liberal idpol framework. Sure it would suck, but hey at least you could get benefits and no one could argue against you getting gender affirming care if it was all about mental health, innit?
Or am I wrong?
>>2823606I must be pedantic and say that calling Rowling a socdem is libel against socdems. Pidcock would be a better example for a Labour-y TERF in your scheme.
Rowling is a Blairite, which should best be understood as a form of Tory. (Blair fought all the way to the ECHR to avoid having to recognize transgender people in law at all and lost, which is why the GRA2004 happened.)
>>2823622We have never lived in a society with smaller differences between men and women for either social or biological reasons. The single biggest thing that would be lost by moving to a system where you adapt to individuals rather than to categories is the categories themselves.
I forget if I've posted it ITT before, but a major axis in contemporary politics comes down to how you want people to be differentiated. Counter-intuitively, woke liberals do not want people differentiated by their identity categories. That is the face, but the reality is that they want us ranked by our coolness, our taste, our morality, our hobbies, and so on. These are all very changeable things - you can be king today and a leper tomorrow if you say something stupid and nasty enough. For all that straight white male anglo bashing is cool, plenty of the coolest people in the world today are straight white male anglos!
Conservatives and reactionaries, on the other hand, want us to be differentiated first by our innate characteristics because those can't be taken away from you. Race, nationality, sex, and so on. It doesn't matter if you're a total loser with bad taste, no hobbies, lumpen morality, etc, because you're an ENGLISHMAN, because you're a REAL woman unlike those AGP freaks, and so on. They resent that day by day economic and technological development strip away our innate differences.
Peter Thiel and his obsession with Girard is the skeleton key to all this. The argument would be that all these old structures helped to keep us differentiated, to limit how many other people we were competing with for status and the things we desire. A woman might have a lower place in the hierarchy than a man, but this has the advantage of making sure she's only competing with other women, not with men. As liberals and technology wash away these differences, some people are left quite naked indeed. It's one thing to have to keep up with the Joneses, it's another to have to keep up with the whole world. Little wonder that the biggest losers on earth repeatedly declare: stop the world, I want to get off!
ironically in a very globalized way, as they all have some sympathy and tolerance for Donald Trump, because he's a natural at this kind of game. The losers love him in large part because he is so clearly their superior in a way they can accept, because he isn't a competitor to them - just as you and I compete for status against one another, not against King Charles. Meanwhile they hate libs because they reject the lib's belief that just because they're smarter, kinder, have better tastes and hobbies, and so on, they're a higher class of person. If that were true it would mean a personal failing on the part of a loser, rather than an innate hierarchy. They would be competitors, and the loser would have lost. >>2823636there would still be bitching because hatred of them is not based on logic, but on the desire of the capitalists to divide and conquer
>>2823642i've meant to get back to it and try to give a fuller definition but i would still pump for the SNP as basically being the closest thing to being liberals in britain. fairly useless and incompetent, with their own little warmonger wring that they've failed to keep in check, but not
evil in the way the major UK parties are, and not tainted by leaning too grassroots, too young, or too progressive like the greens.
there's also a case for calling them socdems, though how worthwhile differentiating liberals and socdems in context is questionable and i'd say there's some overlap between the two. i would grant they're not a perfect example: they don't have any real innate interest in economic liberalism, which is a worthwhile part of the ideology, they're half socdem and half the weird public/quango sector ideology of "civic scotland", but i still think pointing at them and going "sort of like that" is helpful as a way of contrasting them with the willful cruelty of the major parties or the shapeshifting form of the greens.
it's also funny to avoid a no true scotsman situation by pointing to actual scotsmen.
>>2823639>We have never lived in a society with smaller differences between men and women for either social or biological reasons. The single biggest thing that would be lost by moving to a system where you adapt to individuals rather than to categories is the categories themselves.I disagree since there are biological differences between men and women that can't be removed, despite technological and social advancement (typically giving birth) You're always going to need a "male" and "female" category due to this, nonetheless, I agree with putting less pressure on people to conform to arbitrary gender roles.
>Woke liberals do not want people differentiated by their identity categories. That is the face, but the reality is that they want us ranked by our coolness, our taste, our morality, our hobbies, and so on. I think most of them don't juge based on hobbies or tastes, they'll often say stuff like "let people enjoy things" I think the woke liberal's main objective is complete social liberation with no discrimination, the idea being that the current world is bad because of the a specific set of unfairness, that some people are discriminated, with the idea being that unfairness prevents certain group from winning in capitalism, typically they'll complain about a lack of political or economic representation of minorities.
As for their hierarchy, they'll argue it's simply a moral one, with immoral people being inferior to moral ones, but it's also often a class one, poor and uneducated people being seen as backwards, it's the reason for all the purity spirals they regularly do. You'll often notice that a lot of the ideological positions aren't exacly coherent (same with conservatives) politics also tend to be a cultural movement rather then solely a political one. I don't think woke liberals have a concrete end to their goals, but rather a sort of perpetual war against their evil.
>>2823661Only when it is to prvtect wvmen (he will do nothing)
This weather is hellish.
>>2823636Yeah right. Just look at how much the media complains about people having autism/ADHD/tourettes and a few more.
>>2823654Giving birth is always emphasized as a biological difference, but how much does it matter socially when our TFR is below 2 and where fairly little emphasis is put on having children in general? The average age of a mother is now 30, but by 30 more than half of women haven't had children. TFR is predicted to hit 1 or lower for the cohort of women who hit 18 in 2025. As a basic societal expectation of what you're going to do with your life, "have kids" has fallen off sharply for both men and women.
(also for accuracy purposes: this biological inequality has been partially tamed technologically through birth control, which is part of how we got here.)I'm painting with a broad brush here but you should look at some complaints about representation as being more cultural signalling than "real politics". Picking up on the SNP example, there was a bit where Humza Yousaf played to the liberal crowd by complaining that the Scottish parliament was full of white faces, which would be a valid complaint in the US and probably in Westminster, but Scotland's parliament is actually representative of Scotland's demography in that respect. This isn't because he's an idiot or an anti-white racist or anything reactionary like that, it's just that he's playing to the liberal script which says it looks refined to care about these issues - and that's more important than a little thing like pedantic demography. Liberals around the world would recognize him as one of their own for saying that.
My most contentious thought would be this: most of the time uneducated people really are backwards. Poor people aren't, although richer people may stereotype them as such. You can casually pull this apart from polling data if you're willing to be a little blasé about it: at household income <20k, you get 41% left bloc, 51% right bloc. at >70k it's 59% left bloc, 35% right bloc. The important thing is not to get bogged down in which side has the bigger ratio, but to look at the actual numbers: 4/10 poor people are fine, 5/10 poor people are backwards. That's not a slam dunk for poverty causing backwardness.
Meanwhile on education it's 31 left - 63 right for poorly educated people, 64 left - 29 right for highly educated people. e.g. almost perfectly mirroring one another.
This argument gets stronger when you actually look at the blocs: if you decompose the right bloc, you'll find Reform does much worse with educated people than with uneducated people, while the Tories have a much weaker dropoff. (Con 21 / Ref 42 at the bottom, Con 16 / Ref 13 at the top.) Since the Tories are a serious institution (albeit one on the brink of collapse) while Reform are a bunch of hucksters, this isn't surprising. To vote Tory is selfish, to vote Reform is actively backwards.
How to deal with the problem of backwards uneducated people without saying any of it in these completely socially unacceptable terms remains a question to be answered. If we're lucky rising post-secondary education levels will make the problem self-resolve in the coming decades, but when have we ever been lucky? And what if Reform cut down post-secondary enrollment? Where, then, will the left-bloc come from? It's not like it's breeding en-masse… >>2823699Summer is for normoids with no internal monologue, aphantasia, and are functionally illiterate.
>>2823622>The gay's main argument, was essentially that they were normal people in love with someone of the same sex. Ultimatly it didn't really affect most people if they weren't themselves gay, so why oppose it?Letting homosexuals marry and adopt children or get them via IVF is much more subversive and historically disordered than gender transition, even pediatric, which was overseered by specialists post-WW2 before gay marriage became a thing. I'm using disordered in the morally neutral sense here, it litteraly never happenned before in the history of humanity.
I do not buy the normative people with normal demands VS freak with strange visions narrative in that context. You wouldnt even need so much money to run an international anti-gay deffamation campaign over recurring cases of child abuse and have their support among low-info normies take a dive.
>Trans activists want to be seen as the gender they view themselves as, but that expects other people to agree with them, most don't really. That's a more sound critique that i can agree with in some cases. But even then, most anti-trans rulings focuses on their ability to get HRT or hold a job/rent housing, it's a medical and economic attack waged against them primarly more than a purely identitarian one like access to a womans chess club which transphobes also want but find less pressing. You could be hypotetical closet transsexual that underwent a transition but still presenting as a normal male guy and they would still want them gone.
>If there were trans people in ancien Rome, they wouldn't be well regarded properly, feminine men were viewed as being disgusting weak and foreign.Closest equivalent to a modern transsexual was the gallus who would undergo castration to lower their T and DHT and adopt a female appearance. They spread as far as northern england enjoyed more or less good status depending on the era and their talents and had many visualy pleasant piece of arts made in their image or directly inspired by them, which would be unlikely were they seen as subhumans transhistorically, they wouldnt even have been welcomed into Rome during the Punic wars otherwise.
Christian Romans like St Augustine hated them vividly however.
>>2823636That's idiotic because it is not a disability and implying it is would make it an even harder sell since it would amount to:
>"Some people WANT to be disabled bro!"It would also make them able to milk disability buxx endlessly so even reactionaries would hate it for that reason anyway.
>>2823699I don't really get it, like what is there to do when it's this hot? It's too hot to go outside and walk around, even on the beach surely you're just going to get roasted, you can't go swimming cause your sunscreen will come off either. Like do you just sit there under an umbrella and read a book? Might as well just be inside then.
>>2823747>it litteraly never happenned before in the history of humanity. I'm pretty doubtful of this, obviously IVF is a new thing but there's plenty of gay people that gave adopted kids in history, take plenty of Romans for example
There really are just vast swathes, millions of people in this country that have never had a single introspective thought, never questioned why things are as they are, and have never considered philosophical or political issues in any real sense at all.
They're more than happy just to work 5 days a week, enjoy their pints and footy, listen to whatever shite is on the radio, follow the mainstream consensus on every issue.
In as much as they care, they care only about themselves, feigning sympathy as necessary, disregarding emotion when it suits them.
It's not that they're philosophic zombies or mere robots. They live and breathe and feel, but without the depth which for a long time I presumed was the essence of being human rather than, say an insect or lizard.
In fact I'd even wager than a certain number of our politicians could well fall within this category.
Given that we can therefore classify humans into the groups of those who think and those who run on such aforementioned instinct, and given the way in which the latter outnumbers the former, I can only conclude that it is impossible to "fix" the nation or planet.
This post probably reads like edgelord drivel I'll give you that, but all the same I don't think I you can prove me wrong.
Prove to me that these masses who never contemplate anything beyond the week's football scores and doing karaoke with the lads and missus are capable of being reformed or at least whipped into action. I don't believe it's doable. I very much feel it's just worth giving up on the effort of trying to change things.
>>2823750Any discomfort is ostensibly overpowered by sunlight-induced euphoria and cultural perceptions of "good weather". I mainly just feel bad every time the weather changes.
I remember my parents often wanting to drive to the beach in a scorching heat and constantly complaining about the temperature on the hour long drive, only to then happily partake in the social ritual of lying at the beach. Maybe beach tourism is a mass-cultural simulacrum of nobles owning a summer estate, where only the exoticism of the location and some associated prestige remain.
>>2823777I won't say you're completely wrong but I don't think it cuts at a major divide. As you recognize yourself, many of our MPs are such thoughtless and basically apolitical people, just following a path cut out for them by others. A thoughtless person can be a dogmatic reactionary, a smug but empty-brained centrist (remember those journos who belatedly discovered that "neoliberalism" was an actual thing with self-identified advocates, having ignored it for years because they assumed that it was just a left-wing slur?), or even quite an empty-headed lefty type.
Something else underpins the more pressing divide between people who want a better future - even if they've never put any thought into it, even if they think you deliver it by putting a slightly more sensible suited wanker into office and rejoining the EU - and people who actually want to see policeman cracking skulls on TV and sobbing refugees being bundled into planes to Rwanda, people who's first instinct when a transgender person is murdered is to go "*HE was murdered, and there's no evidence that it's because HE was a transhumanist", people who manage to dig below having nothing going on and put themselves in a place where they actively revel in cruelty. Whether they do so introspectively or not is secondary to whatever the hell has gone wrong there.
Mankind and civilization can make do with most people lacking introspection, we can even make do with base selfishness (where I will steal from you if I want what you have, hurt you if I don't like you, but for the most part
ignore you.), but we're absolutely doomed if we let this other wound fester. If the people pushing the cause of barbarism can organize as well as they have, the people pushing the cause of civilization can do likewise.
Getting off my hobby horse: I think a good chunk of introspection comes from not having something else going on. If you've got the pub to look forward to, you don't need to sit in your room and wonder which combination of dead politicians, failed ideologies, and subclinical mental illnesses explain one's current ennui. I really hope we wont get that weather all summer long
>>2823851Me too, but it's entirely possible, the climate is fucked
Not gonna lie sisters, I was NOT built for this Vietnam war movie style, darkest recesses the Louisiana bayou ass, Uncontacted Amazonian tribal village type weather vibe we're having today
If global class war breaks out send me to the Polar front if you want, put me in Siberia or Antarctica, because I refuse to handle this shit…
To cuddle and hold hands with Greta Thunberg would be a dream
Based on the amount of complaints about the temperatures I think most of /leftybritpol/ must live in Wales, the North West, Midlands, and/or South.
(Temperatures in Scotland and the North East are comfy today.)
>>2823881Personally speaking, I'm located in a povvo village in the post-industrial rust belt of the East Midlands :)
>>2823804The wider public always on an unconscious level mirror the superstructure culturally - social beings make social reality, and the shapers hands are in Westminister.
It is truly 'Cruelty Squad' - the cruelty is the point, they hate us and that hate is reflected back at us in the faces of every philosophical zombie.
You want nice? Seize power.
I think the average person is creative and kind and I am a communist because I support the average person not hate them.
I hate this weather though it is so fucking boiling
>>2823963I've seen 3 dead birds today and I assume its because of the weather
>>2823963I agree with you here but also that the cruelty displayed by the average person is the indifference to the political system they participate it, there is still room for good actors and general politeness within this - you just have to square it with them voting for a genocide.
>>2823965Thanks anon, reminded me to put a tray of water out on the balcony for the birds.
If you want a little laugh: TERFs who were smug about the new trans guidance "vindicating" them are now mad about it and want it withdrawn for not going far enough. (Basically: because it still doesn't want you asking everyone their sex before they piss.)
One of the small mercies of living in a country like Britain is that as miserable as the worst people on earth can make it, they never get to be happy either.
If TERFs got their way the state would implement mandatory chromosome markers on an ID that you are forced to carry at all times, and/or a genital print scanner device at the entry to every building and toilet
>>2824096more points for "the key dividing line in politics is how differentiated different social groups should be" theory
been reading through the EHRC document. some of it is genuinely batshit.
for example paragraph 4.100 plainly states that it's an unfair, harmful negative stereotype to assume that someone who believes being gay is a sin must therefore be anti-gay, or to assume that a "gender critical" nutter would be ant-trans.
only explenation for this kind of crap and the 1000s of other examples in the documentation is if the EHRC has been wholesale institutionally captured by money or even employees who are hard right reactionary activists and evangelical / salafist campaigners.
what can we even realistically do when the law is now that it's okay to have segregation against trans people and deny them service? I imagine if this had happened to the gays in the 80s there would've been riots, windows smashed in, turds or mail bombs sent to those responsible - of course I would never advocate for such actions, haha that would be crazy.
>>2824185I think a lot of trans women just don't want to be visibily rioting since they think it will make them look bad. But obviously the transphobes will hate us either way and I think a lot of people would be supportive of such rioting. It's mostly trans men who riot at least in my city. Trans women who do it openly are exposing themselves to a lot. We should do it btw just explaining why it sucks.
>>2824191I don't think rioting can do much in 2026. They'll do a better job just making money and ditching the performative leftism like how gays did in the 1980s and 1990s, moving upward served them well. Then use all the cultural and financial caché to advocate for themselves only aka not some omnicause feminist-palestine-stop-misogynoir-free-healthcare-transrights-type shit.
Because it is very clear leftists and the "intersectional community" see you people as privileged white guys indulging in luxury and won't really move much to help you from these attacks, even if they do not hates you. This isnt true of the American Democrats or Canadian Libs who are still trans right hardliners however, but that is due to LGBT interest groups being intelligent and deeply intertwined with the DNC administration since Obama.
>>2824466>Because it is very clear leftists and the "intersectional community" see you people as privileged white guys indulging in luxury and won't really move much to help you from these attacks, even if they do not hates you.Me when I'm lying on the internet
>>2824470That's what it look like from an outsiders perspective.
>>2824470it's not entirely true but there is obviously an element of it. if the Green party came out swinging against the EHRC's utterly insane unworkable guidance and refused to drop it until the government backed down, it would look like an overreaction and most of the left would prefer they focused on a more appealing message, which wouldn't be true if such rules were applied to basically any other minority.
if you make, say, a racial comparison by way of illustration, a lot of people will chide you by going "but people can't
choose to be an ethnic minority", with the logical antecedent that a transgender person can and should just stay in the closet if they don't want to be excluded from society.
and a racial comparison does seem appropriate when illustrating the insanity of an underlying principle like "you can exclude transgender people from single sex services for
both sexes to protect the comfort of cisgender people" - because it
is the same principle that underpins something like "we should exclude ethnic minorities from white services to protect the comfort of the ethnic majority", it is the idea that the discomfort of the prejudiced majority trumps the rights of the individual.
and this is true
even if you accept that sex is immutable, the supreme court ruling was correct, and so on. the principle in that case should be that transgender men use women's services and vice-versa. this creates moderately bad optics (an obvious man who is "biologically female" can use women's services), but is entirely workable and consistent with the "gender critical" worldview as self-described. even awkward edge cases like sports are already covered (a cis woman who uses testosterone isn't going to be allowed to compete, and the principle would just be to treat a trans man as such a cis woman.)
just like the nazis (ooh, isn't that a bit hyperbolic? isn't that a bit of an overreaction? it's only transhumanists, settle on…) they overstep even their own crooked laws in pursuit of making the outgroup suffer because the aim was never simply cleanly ensuring the sex-segregation of services due to "legitimate concerns", it was making sure that services were allowed to be completely trans-exclusionary, it was establishing this principle that the rights of a certain minority are worth less than the rights of everyone else.
but even king woke Zack Polanski is clearly more passionate about a nationwide program of home insulation than he is about drawing attention to the fact that we are governed by absolutely insane, evil people making insane, evil rules based on insane, evil, outright unconstitutional legal rulings to punish a tiny minority for having the cheek to exist. even the people who agree with me will
not entirely wrongly roll their eyes and wish i'd posted about HS2 cost overruns or some other "real" issue instead of getting bogged down in this "culture war" where
both sides are annoying so can't we just ignore it.
hell, the main reason i care is a sort of legalistic autism that is caught up on the logical inconsistency of basically every step of this process. I hope Burnham loses the by-election. Multiple reasons why.
Firstly. It means the Labour leadership contest will be Streeting Vs anyone willing to challenge him.
The Streeting premiership will be extremely weak, incompetent, more of the same but worse, widely hated.
The end result will be the total annihilation of zioliberal entity that is modern Labour.
This is now a necessary step to allow space for a real left wing party / parties to fill the vacuum.
Secondly, the success of Reform will only further fears and panic about a potential fascist government after the next general election.
It gives Reform a greater opportunity to show how incompetent and deranged they are.
This will push sections of the public leftward in response, and help to organise antifascism.
Thirdly, Burnham has long supported and defended Israel, said there is unjustified vitriol against Israel, has said his first foreign visit would be to Israel, and is (like Starmer and Streeting) a member of Labour friends of Israel.
He has also turned to TERFism too now that he believes it can serve his personal goals.
One can hope his failure will lead Labour to question if Zionism and transphobia are the right path to be on, and cause anyone with even a grain of morality to leave the sinking ship of Labour.
But really, I would just get personal satisfaction from seeing a liberal zionist TERF lose.
>>2824503How do you believe they should have handled the court case ? I don't think the current situation is good, but there are obviously situations where sex matters a lot more then personal identifications (sports, prisons, rape centers in certain cases) Scotland's way was fairly ripe for abuses, as seen in the Isla Bryon case. I think they should have done two categories for "women at birth" and "legally women" (allows them to avoid having to enter the poltical debate and stay purely legal) to allow for both cases?
>>2824466Leftists and the intersectual community are strongly pro-trans, as long as they are under 60 years old. I don't know what you're getting at because it's the liberal parties that are the most transphobic.
>>2824628Transexuality is not about personal identification, it is about changing sex (this includes non-binary transexuals). The idea of transgenderism was a psyop tbh, nobody is just transgender. Now people like you think that is a respectable middle ground when it still puts us into the third sex category, unable to resolve the contradiction of sex. Anyway from a practical standpoint if I was sent to a male prison I would have to go in solitary confinement for the entire duration or I would get raped (and that's assuming prison guards wouldn't do it too).
>>2824628the Isla Bryson case had nothing to do with the supreme court case or with Scotland's gender recognition reform bill (except timing.) Isla Bryson did not hold a gender recognition certificate and the Scottish bill never entered into force because it was vetoed. (the justification for the veto was also spurious in light of what the court
actually ruled, but that's another story…)
the supreme court should have found that all transgender people are covered by the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, and that transgender people with a gender recognition certificate are also considered to be of the opposite sex for all legal purposes. that is the actual legal position that existed from 2010-2025. the GRA2004 is very explicit about making a person with a GRC their acquired sex for all legal purposes, and the EA2010 does not contain a clause repealing the GRA2004 or saying "the GRA2004 does not apply for the purposes of this law".
the court didn't like this interpretation because it creates two distinct groups of trans people (and adds pressure to reform the arcane process for actually getting a GRC, as every party was committed to doing c. 2017) but it is not the place of the court to re-write legislation to change the law to what they think parliament
should have legislated by cobbling together a bonkers interpretation of the EA2010 based on repealed legislation*, personal prejudices, and judicial whims.
EHRC guidance flowing from this ruling should've been much as it was before the whole thing was packed with nutters: in broad strokes that the EA2010
allows you to discriminate on the basis of sex, it does not
require it, that public bathrooms, changing rooms, birdwatching clubs, etc, are governed entirely by social convention and are not a matter for the courts or the EHRC, and so on. if the government believed there was a real practical problem in any particular area, it should have legislated to change the law to deal with that problem instead of sitting back and allowing an unhinged judicial power grab.
*if you want to see the level of sophistry the court operated on: in their judgement they cite the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, which (unlike the GRA2004) the EA2010
explicitly repealed, to show that sex in law has "always" been biological.
They argue that because the EA2010 didn't explicitly say it was moving to a non-biological definition different to that of the SDA1975, the biological definition from this old (and repealed!!!) piece of legislation must still be in force, and supersede the "usually biological but sometimes certificated" definition that the GRA2004 created.
…the GRA2004's explanatory notes explicitly say that a woman with a GRC is entitled to protection as a woman under the SDA1975 because that's what "all legal purposes"
means!!
this is fuckery on a level with claiming that the European Communities Act 1972 somehow supersedes the EU (Withdrawal Agreement) act 2020, and therefore Britain is still in the EU. it is actual madness and they got away with it.
shithole country
>>2824873What do you mean?? We have quiz shows/talent shows to satiate the lumpenproles on TV every hour and Reform party representatives on every news bulletin
>>2824185>what can we even realistically do when the law is now that it's okay to have segregation against trans people and deny them service? I imagine if this had happened to the gays in the 80s there would've been riots, windows smashed in, turds or mail bombs sent to those responsible - of course I would never advocate for such actions, haha that would be crazy.Anon ngl things were far worse for Gays in the 80s the government literally was fine with them dying of a disease and the pres actively encouraged violence against any present gay man outside.
>>2825036Without downplaying how anti-gay the Thatcher government (and press, establishment, etc) were, the US example isn't instructive to what happened in Britain. The UK's public health messaging was fairly solid and accurately emphasized that it wasn't a gay disease, that you couldn't get it from regular social contact, and so on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS:_Don%27t_Die_of_Ignorance And it worked!
>By 1990 infection rates in the UK were below those of peer nations, including France and the USA.[12]More oddly/administratively: it was the Thatcher government that decriminalized male homosexuality in Scotland in 1981 and Northern Ireland in 1982. Not because they really wanted to, but because Scotland's judges had basically decided not to prosecute these cases and wanted that practical reality reflected in the actual law, and the ECHR made them do it in NI. Bureaucracy like that tells you a lot more about where a country is going than frontline politics, which is why the current moves towards institutionalized discrimination are so alarming. If you look at it in a certain high politics sense, Section 28 would slot as much into the Thatcher government's agenda of centralization and attack on local council autonomy (which endured) as it did to their homophobic agenda. (which did not)
>>2824892interspersed with gambling and fast food adverts of course
one nice cultural development would have been the fact that people dont really smoke ciggies anymore, but theyre all addicted to vapes instead now.
>>2825344Never really got the switch to vaping. Why on earth would you want to extend your life in this place?
Question Time is doing an AI special this week. All 5 panelists are all pro-AI.
They have:
>Darren Jones - Labour's "champion for AI development"
>Julia Lopez - Tory's shadow technology secretary
>Mo Gawdat - Former Google executive
>Laura Gilbert - Tony Blair Institute's AI director
>Victor Riparbelli - An AI company executive
Basically the AI lobby have just bought a pro-AI propaganda episode from the BBC. So much for avoiding political bias.
>>2825436Will be interesting to see what horseshit narratives they feed the audience to prop up their own interests
>>2825436Nobody who is an executive can survive without AI, and they're the ones who make all the decisions, so yeah.
Question Time, more like time to question why we still have to pay the fucking license fee for this shit
>>2825689Did they think of creating more fucking jobs?
>>2825689I think this change is just going to be welfare cuts but cloaked in the language of "getting people back to work" though. Unless they're going to re-open the pits or something there will not be jobs available. They will claim that it's a big success and that welfare spending is down loads but they will hide that it's because they aren't paying loads of young people who can't get a job. The job centre does not help you get work right now. They say they will and then they cancel everything last second.
Lumpenmaxxing is the only way.
>>2825941>I think this change is just going to be welfare cuts but cloaked in the language of "getting people back to work" though.You mean like every "benefit reform" ever? You don't say?
>>2825941Sorry I shouldn't have quipped at you, I'm just tired of this same pattern repeating. They recently halved the amount of UC LCWRA people can get which a lot of disabled people rely on, especially since it can take years on end to get PIP now
>>2825689The report explicitly says that the major issue is the fact the entire process; online applications requiring major amounts of time for zero result, is a huge part of it. This has only pentupled due to the advent of AI.
>>2826010As technology improves the socially necessary labour time drastically decreases, a lot of people stop needing to work (of course the work that is needed should be shared by everyone in a socialist system). But this means that the bourgeois's profits on non-ficticious and non-imperial capital are massively falling. Welfare cuts and "reform" aren't anything to do with balancing the budget (the budget does not matter), they are so disabled young people can be exploited as proletarians again. Young welfare recipients and disabled workers forced to work far beyong their capacity are the most revolutionary sections of society.
>>2826065How the fuck are disabled people going to overthrow anything? If you need multiple pills to keep you from killing yourself you’re not gonna be in the people’s army, you wouldn’t last
>>2826070Shhhh don't let reality get in the way of S-poster's dream of the NEET uprising (since he is NEET himself).
>>2826065More like the private sector is using workfare and the disabled as scabs and to scab, no shade to the disabled
>>2826070Peasants were superhumans? lmao
>ib4 muh strong past >>2826076If you were born weak as a peasant you were either worshipped as the local God or had your head bashed in by your father and fed to the sows
>>2826076Peasants didn’t need SSRIs, they had beautiful, functional 3% alcohol ale and wine
>>2826070Maybe they wouldn't need pills if there actually was a people's army
Reform will win Makerfield and Labour will die a hilarious death
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/may/29/labour-inquiry-nigel-farage-russia-phone-hack-donation-reform-uk
>Farage initially claimed Harborne had given him the money to cover his security costs, before later saying it was a “reward” for his years of campaigning for Brexit.
<Since entering parliament, Farage has advocated positions that would benefit the commercial interests of the cryptocurrency industry, including allowing people to pay taxes with digital currency.lmao
>>2826111You think China doesn’t have neurotics and head cases?
>>2826070Discipline. Also antidepressants and antipsychiatrics are forms of chemical lobotomy so of course I do not support them.
>>2826071I just aknowledge Mao Zedong's and the Maoist movement's discovery that the lumpen-proletariat are as revolutionary as the proletariat and peasantry.
>>2826267Take a schizo off their lithium for the purpose of militancy and see what happens
unspeakable truth: most talk of revolution is LARP and the eventual socialist and communist revolutions that occur will be revolutions in the sense of the industrial revolution rather than violent uprisings. at best, you will see color revolution tier "revolutions" where some existing structures are displaced and replaced with broadly similar ones governed by a group more agreeable to economic and social realities.
but this is an unpalatable truth because it means there will be no violent catharsis, there will be no re-enactment of your favorite historical greatest hits, and (for the depressive amongst us) you will not become a martyr for an ultimately-successful revolution as a white army bullet pierces your throat.
civilization-scale progress is always first and foremost boring.
>>2825351The appeal of vaping isn’t in extending your life, it doesn’t, it’s that you’re getting 5x-10x the dosage of nicotine in a vape hit than you are in a cigarette. It’s the difference between sniffing heroin and shooting up.
been pissing blood for a week but i'm still unable to get a doctor's appointment.
how do we fix the healthcare system?
>>2826629Privatize it and adopt the American private insurance model, it’s what you deserve
>>2826629The time for reform has passed. Things will only get worse in the West. Pissing blood is probably a sign of kidney failure. Use what little time you have left to buy a gun, write a manifesto attacking NHS privatization and austerity, and then go out with a bang shooting Wes "I love outsourcing the NHS" Streeting in the head at a rally.
>>2826632>buy a gunI think you need a lot of paperwork to do that here
>>2826632That’ll just make them say funding the NHS is supporting terrorism which will make them privatize it faster
>>2826640A black market purchase was implied.
>>2826642They're welcome to but in all likelihood Labour having their healthcare secretary and supposed next leader shot for insufficient healthcare funding would probably make an inept coward like Starmer cough up a few million more pounds in funding solely to improve electoral odds for the next round of elections.
>>2826629Go into A&E they will have to see you
>>2826654They’ll just say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” and arrest as many old people with plackards as they need to, it’s not a democracy, your opinion doesn’t matter
>>2826705The only good advice here.
>>2826283Is this meant to be a bad thing?
I'd be surprised this isn't the outcome most users here would want, despite the LARP.
Issue is that there is no indication we are heading in the direction of a revolution of any kind
>>2826705>>2826985Going to A&E for non-emergency things is a significant contribution to why emergency departments, leading to hospitals in general, are collapsing.
OP, if for some reason you can't get an appointment with your GP then at least speak to 111 for advice (unless you actually do feel it is an emergency).
>>2827329Do they still do Kill all Taigs stuff or has the anti muslim stuff completely replaced the anti catholic sentiment?
>>2827334Nah, they still do it, you'll see it again on July Twelth, they'll do their usual march in catholic neighborhood burning irish flags and threatening the people there, while the UK refuses to aknowledge actual segregation right under their nose. There is not even 10 000 muslims in Northern Ireland, even during the recent riots people targetted romanians of all people.
>>2827342Oh yeah, during the riots last year some poor Filipina nurse had to put a sign on her door in 42 print font (doesn’t help, they can’t read) that said “Please don’t burn my flat, I work in a care home”
>>2827345Beyond being lunatics Loyalists are retarded, Immigration was the only way they could counter the demographic advantage of catholics, as immigrants were more likely to support the status quo as they had no part in Northern Irish politics, but they'd rather terrorise the immigrants and hand them over to the republicans.
>>2827348I still can’t get over how they call themselves British when literally no one else in the UK does, it really drives home how fake and artificial the whole thing is
>>2827353It's even more ironic then that, the only people in the UK outside NI that calls themselves British are Liberal Londoners, who'd probably hate any loyalist they'd meet.
>>2827355It’s all the personality disorders you see in Boers, Israelis, Pied Noirs, the US, hmm like they all have something in common
>>2827329Loyalists always had a weak culture (their marching songs are 300 years old and their cultural output since around 1940 has been non-existent) but this feels like colony collapse to a degree. The young people with any level of education reject this shit and get the fuck out. There is no such thing as a loyalist intellectual or artist: the moment you become one of those you stop being a loyalist.
It’s especially crazy when it’s like, how many anti protestant hate crimes happen in the Republic of Ireland?
>>2827384It's a movement that is based on pure spite, they created northern Ireland solely because they were scared of equality with the catholics, they started murdering civilians in the streets because the catholics were protesting for civil rights, they bombed killed pregnent women in Dublin because the republic tried to make peace in the North, they threw bottle of piss at little girls because they went to a catholic school in a protestant neighborhood. They supported Brexit because it'd annoy the Irish, they supported Israel because the Irish support Palestine. They hate immigrants because they're not them.
All of that for what ? Ireland will even be perfectly willing to give their autonomy if they could have unity. They just want to make random people suffer for the simple crime of existing next to them. I worry that when unity happens they'll start some shit.
>>2827386Litterally none since the Troubles, and even it was directly a consequence of the Unionists's actions.
They'll argue that Ireland is officially a catholic state, when the power of the chuch has all but collapsed since the 90s. They genuinly live in a different world, propagandised since birth to see the Irish as a threat. They're fairly unique in that regard in the west, even Reform voters in Great Britain aren't so obsessed and bitter, I think the cloest equivalent you'll get are the EDL types.
>>2827394>I think the cloest equivalent you'll get are the EDL typesTbh from what y'all are saying about Ulster Loyalists I think even that is too generous. They remind me more of the Anglo-Saxon Foundation and its obsession with the idea that "ethnic englisc" have been oppressed for a millenia by the "Norman Yolk"
>>2827448These aren't hotel people you retards, these are wealthy diasparoids who left Iran decades ago
>>2827476Well that's weird, didn't know that, but still no excuse for killing them all with arson is it?
>>2827471Cyrus the Great is also the only non jew to be considered a Messiah by jews.
>>2827502Champagne Supernova is their best song anyway, and Gorillaz is better at their worst than Blur or Oasis at their height anyway
>>2826116Jewish Holocaust be like:
>6 million of us got killed by the NazisAngloid “genocide” be like:
>6 gorillion of r wimminz got raeped by brown menSuch is Anglo privilege.
In all seriousness tho, this is just brainrot at this point. Speaking of which, the council at Kent couldn’t solve a water crisis in the city all thanks to Reform goons insisting on every council meeting beginning and ending with a Christian(TM) prayer and singing the national anthem:
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/S4XUIGj2kSkIdk about you, but we seriously need a plan to stop more of our folks from being terminally online, and possibly built our own indigenous social media networks instead of relying on American oligarchs who are currently payrolling the British part of the ChudIntern alongside the Dubai rentier financebro class.
>>2827480Not saying that but people put their lives on the line to protect these cunts and now they are forming paramilitaries against us.
>>2827348Since you know more about the situation in Ireland, can you confirm whether what British chuds say is true regarding how immigration is leading to Ulster-Scot loyalists and Irish republicans allying with each other against BAME and immigrants in general?
I don't think Burnham should replace Starmer. I absolutely hate Starmer but there's a good chance that if Burnham gets in he will have to call a general election, and Reform is likely to win.
The worst possible outcome is that we get Reform AND MAGA at the same. If the Republicans get trounced and then Reform win in two years, its likely the Democrats will give them the cold shoulder and not interfere with UK politics. Whereas Reform and MAGA are active at the same time, its going to be chaos.
>>2827520It’s better if Wes Streeting completely destroys the labour party altogether tbh
>>2827513>can you confirm whether what British chuds say is true regarding how immigration is leading to Ulster-Scot loyalists and Irish republicans allying with each other against BAME and immigrants in general?In the North is complete bollocks. Sectarian tensions are their highest since Drumcree. There is a growing core of reactionary republicans within the catholic community but 1) they aren't new (the Continuity IRA has been known to extort specifically immigrant/Muslim businesses for years) 2) they still hate the huns as much if not more. What is interesting about this new core is that they are so anti-muslim they have started to attack Palestine Solidarity ("Paddystinian" is an insult imported from the South). Was a recent story about disso group (not 100% sure which, think it might have be Saoradh?) heckling and harassing a mural painter on the The Falls "Peace Wall". Subtext is that apparently he "painted over" said disso group's graffiti (as in not a proper mural) but still: guy himself said that was unheard of.
Now what you DO have in the South is a core of West Brit/East Yank reactionaries who are allying with Loyalists from the North; who are making increasing tours to Dublin. They aren't exactly doing Orange Marches down The Liberties but a lot of EDL-esque sorts are making that political alliance. The Irish Far Right is a fucking mess though: it has loads of contradictions over yankeefied zionists and literal neonazis, tradcaths and "gaelic supremacists". It doesn't help that they are operating in a country that is whiter than Britain was in the 1950s but is talking about Dublin like its Tower Hamlets. Also the Irish Far Right is too ethnonationalist for its own good (they go around assaulting Ukrainians which is never how you get anywhere).
Fundamentally though, there can never be a real political alliance between these two groups because 1) the actual number of non christian and/or non white minorities in Ireland as an island is fucking tiny 2) these people still do literally kill eachother 3) state institutions in the North are still under protestant rule (PSNI is 66% Protestant, and their catholic figures include Poles with no skin in the game. Arrest rates for Catholics are 2:1 despite only being 40-45% of the population. PSNI regularly collaborates with loyalist gangs etc.) no matter how much the TUV claim there is a secret catholic irish middle class lanyard elite. Also the institutions of republicanism are very much still alive unlike every other kind of left-wing institution in britain. NI Chuds tend to overwhelmingly be middle class yankeefiles and are much like suit-wearing reformers in GB.
Worth saying the Polish Catholics are in a weird spot: many of them are very reactionary and would agree with loyalists/the irish far right apart from the fact that they are seen as immigrant invaders so end up denouncing "Irish communism" and then getting the shit kicked out of them by their ideological comrades. Saw another case where Belarusian Azov supporters put up an Israel flag in Free State Ulster and local youths came and beat the shit out of them. Hardly blue-haired wokeoids but that shit just does not fly.
>>2827513During the various anti-immigration riots in the republic and in the North, there has been collaboration between loyalists and catholic protestors, but those catholic protestors have no link to actual republicans groups, political (Sinn Fein, Saorise, Republican Sinn Fein) or paramillitary (New IRA, Continuity IRA) However, the political parties supporting the catholic protestors do call themselves republicans and support reunification, but at this point, you'll struggle to find any party that don't, bar Fine Gael.
However, it is true that loyalists have increasingly accepted catholics in their anti-immigration protests and that catholics from the republic have come to the north to support them. This move has also decrediblised them in eyes of most of the Irish population, as inviting former UVF members to the city they onced bombed didn't exacly appeal to the Irish people, despite increasing anti-immigration sentiment amongst them.
And while there is undoubtedly anti-muslim and racist sentiments, most of the immigration riots have actually been against Ukrainians in the Republic and Romanians in the North and then later spread to encompass immigrants as a whole.
Rupert Lowe's economic philosophy:
<The age-old battle between individualism and collectivism will always continue. I am unashamedly in favour of the individual and implacably opposed to statism, which history tells us always fails. This philosophy underpins everything that Restore Britain is founded upon. We will be unapologetic. The parasitic British state will be crushed under a Restore Britain government – cuts that would make Javier Milei blush.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/04/im-not-a-monster-im-proud-to-lead-the-only-party-britons/Restore is the worst of both worlds; racist police state and free market madness.
Fe godwn ni eto
The worst thing the Provisional IRA did is destroying the guns. They made it so much harder for their daughters and sons to continue the fight.
>>2827781Sinn Fein would have suffered the same fate as the Tamil Tigers had they continued the armed campaign past 9/11, do you
WANT US troops in Belfast protecting orange marches?
>>2827782Tamil Tigers were destroyed by China though not the USA.
>>2827783Also it was a different situation, Tamil Eelam went into mobile warfare too early rather than staying in Guerrila warfare. Should have read more Mao.
>>2827784The world is a better place and the Republican cause healthier with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness alive instead of murdered during GWOT
>>2827782TBH no, what happened to the Tamils would never be accepted if it happened to western people.
It was a widespread ethnic cleansing campaign which looked even worse than Gaza does to us today.
Stuff like systemic gangrapes as a strategy and the complete media blackout, just for two things, could never fly or be practical in a western, english speaking country with large diasporas at that.
The Labour MP for Hemel Hempstead, David Taylor, has called on the Home Office to revoke Hasan Piker's visa and ban him from entering the UK.
He was due to come to the country to speak at some event next week.
Not even a Hasan fan I think he's a Soc Dem nepo baby who champions dumb Democrats with Nazi tattoos, but still it's absolutely insane, wild how right wing and authoritarian Labour is that they'd demand he's banned from the country.
>>2828080I'd guess that JLM and Labour Friends of Israel are pushing for it as an anti-semitism thing off the success of getting Kanye banned. Seeing how far they can push it.
Wont say i'd be surprised if it happens, but i don't expect it.
>>2827781Immaculate Larp. So Ireland was like Palestine in terms of hitlerite nationalism dressed as "communism". Damn.
The Republic of Ireland was the only nation on the entire planet to send a message of commiserations to Germany with regards to Hitler's death.
>>2828080As a result of his views on Israel?
The Irish Free state is still a British colony but many are not ready to hear this.
Hey guys, I think at this point it’s no secret that Elon Musk and Israel really want to oust Starmer and have no qualms in trying to kickstart an actual civil war for that aim.
Now, will they actually be successful in terms of starting a civil war in the British isles?
A problem with answering this question is that nobody agrees on what constitutes a civil war, especially since very few such wars reached the levels of violence seen in either the Spanish or American civil wars.
>>2828473No one in Britain has a gun, you would need the military to split up, what would even do that? Trying to kick BAMEs out of the military?
>>2828473>Hey guys, I think at this point it’s no secret that Elon Musk and Israel really want to oust Starmer and have no qualms in trying to kickstart an actual civil war forthat aim.Literally why though? The Starmer government is clearly not long for this world. Even if it limps along to the next election it isn't going to win it.
If a civil war happens in Britain then who is gonna have the money, time, or electricity to consume the Murdoch press?
>>2828475>No one in Britain has a gun,NTA, I dont agree that a civil war is ever going to happen, but having said that the royal armories would absolutely be opened up for reactionary freaks the moment a civil-war or worker rule is in sight, in whatever crazy alt-history situation.
>>2828086 (me)
Welp. B&.
Time to do the soyfacearena, everyone.
>>2828480Oh no, drunk Geezers with muskets and the occasional STEN they won’t know how to operate, the horror
>>2828488>muskets and the occasional STENAre you actually retarded? Is this is what you think is in british armories?
>>2828543None of your guns can fire without American authorization, they’re permissionlocked
>>2827781Nelson Mandela of all people agreed with you
>>2828119>palestine>hitlerite nationalismare you german or israeli? either way tie a knot and hang yourself now. do palestinians want a state for one ethnoreligious group only? no, not even hamas does. do israelis want that? look at their actions the last 75 years or so.
>>2828534It's pretty funny that it happenned to Cenk after now years of trying to appeal to MAGA and other right wing freaks.
maybe i've just been reading too many insane libertarian cranks, but i can't help but roll my eyes when reading socdems these days. "why doesn't the government simply implement an industrial strategy, throw loads of money at industry, generally slap together a good economy single-handedly instead of relying on the market" motherfucker the government can't build a single railway line, have you looked at the government, if the government ran the supermarkets you'd starve to death. it doesn't matter that this isn't a fundamental law of economic reality and that governments in some places and some times can be competent: your actually-existing government is a joke!
forget industrial strategy and big LARPing photos with re-opened shipyards and coal mines, forget "reversing" neoliberalism that never mostly didn't happen in the first place, if you were given absolute power tomorrow you would spend the next 15 years constructing the fundamental infrastructure for implementing policy and you'd likely still fail. but you won't even do that because you can't even organize a party or a takeover of an existing party, or a fucking think tank. as above: so below!
socialists have the same problem times a thousand. less frustrating than socdems because it's easier to see it's in the realm of pure fantasy, but still eye-rolling: what if instead of the state doing a few things, it did everything? what if we tried new planning mechanisms that have never been tried anywhere, or old ones that failed elsewhere, or this really cool one that totally works in china where the state builds a billion miles of railway a day and beats you up if you put your hand in the till, what if we overthrew the entire existing order of things when so far we haven't even been able to get 15 people to show up to a meeting on wednesday without getting into big arguments about who we'll take our our petty psychosexual frustrations on first once we take absolute power, which will happen any day now.
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