Listen up, I'm only going to say this once:
Sir noncey noncey nonce nonce nonce nonce
What's the latest on Zarah Sultana and Grassroots Left? Have they disbanded completely
>>2829198Is Kier donezo after these new releases? Or is he still managing to hold on?
Don’t worry about a civil war or a right wing revolution in the UK, if that happened the Murdoch media would lose all its money
>>2829280He’s going to insist on being leader for 10 years
Apparently Reform may now lose Makerfield because too many of their supporters are swapping to Restore
What the fuck is happening to this shithole island
>>2829198To all the idiots claiming that NI politcs don't affect the mainland, and that anti-catholic hatred is solely located amongst loyalists in Northern Ireland.
Explain why the English police, in the UK, left Henry Nowak, a Polish catholic to be left to die after being stabbed, not only did they leave him to die, they actively cuffed him while leaving the murderer in peace.
Briths society is rotten to the core by radical protestantism, 90% of Britain's protestants worship the king as their gods, and we're supposed to think this is a modern secular country ? We laught when that american prayed to Trump on the Hoover damn, but the British do that everyday.
You are a backwards barbarian people, and it's a bloody shame Napoleon lost at Trafalgar.
Does the British right bring up privatizing healthcare? Do you use us as a counterargument?
>>2829470>Explain why the English police, in the UK, left Henry Nowak, a Polish catholic to be left to die after being stabbed, not only did they leave him to die, they actively cuffed him while leaving the murderer in peace.you think if he was a prot that would have gone differently? dumbass lol.
>>2829470I don't think there is the same religious dynamic in Britain as there id in Ireland. It only exists in Ireland because it is an expression of settler colonialism.
>>2829526I disagree, it's not that while ago that they had "No blacks, no Irish, no dogs" sign in shops in England. Even Brexit was justified by hatred of the polish catholics.
The British governement spent years telling people to hate the Irish, to hate the catholic poors, and to hate the catholic immigrants, they legalised the murder of catholic civilians protesting for their rights, it has to reflect on British society as a whole.
you know what, i'm gonna let him have saying the stabbing thing was anti-catholic prejudice. it beats rightoids bleating that it's anti-white. (change the fucking record)
>>2829530idk about the stabbing in itself, It's more the cops reactions, cuffing the guy, mocking him and denying him the help he needed while he was bleeding to death, this goes far beyond incompetance and is active malice.
>>2829210All quiet on the Zarah front, afaik she's largely gone awol since the yorp election, not actively involved in the attempts to salvage anything from moribund yorp.
Grassroots left has been disbanded for all intents and purposes as half the groups involved quietly withdrew, while the remaining ones split into roughly two camps, one affiliated with the 'members charter' (these ones are trying create a split from yorp by loudly demanding karie murphy let them create branches and give them membership data and then announcing their own party when they get ignored, they had an online meeting the other day that managed to get 100 boomers and have renamed themselves 'socialist federation') and one with the 'connections' network (these ones are trying host a series of 'conferences of the left' to discuss the prospects for a new left party following the failure of yorp and start from the ground up, they're having their first in-person conference in sheffield this weekend iirc).
Overall things are dissipating into nothing, what links and groups briefly flared up from Grassroots left are dying off, most are disillusioned and tired and returning to whatever they were doing before yorp in their local areas. At most it'll latently serve as a foundation for a future party but the energy isn't there for it just now.
The left needs a Dominic Cummings type. Someone who recognises
A) the total rot of every institution meaning that simply electing a left-wing government would achieve nothing. hell, winning a revolution would mean nothing because the revolutionaries would almost certainly just try to use the same machinery.
B) the total lack of talent by basically all the major players
C) the fact it doesn't have to be like this and that certain groups, institutions, and even people have had outside effects by deploying certain replicable principles and approaches. These are "high performance institutions" and should be learned from. A future communist party has more to learn from the Apollo Program than from the CPSU.
It's a shame he's gone completely fucking mental and had his brain poisoned by Twitter because his basic vision c. 2019 wasn't even that bad.
Some free ideas:
>Radical Error-Correction: High-performance systems are built on rapid feedback loops. Organizations must constantly test policies, accept when things fail, and adapt—a process he argues is stifled by traditional political "u-turn" taboos
>Speed over cost: In project management, moving slowly is often far more expensive than being wrong. Fast implementation allows for rapid course correction.
>Resilience via redundancy: Modern institutions obsess over "efficiency" by cutting slack, which destroys resilience. High-performance architectures explicitly build in redundant systems to withstand massive, unexpected shocks
>Systems Engineering & Complexity: Leaders must apply proven systems management techniques. Government and institutions must balance a central strategic vision with extreme operational decentralization, allowing fast, unbureaucratic decisions.
>"Viciously" small teams: Complex projects fail when too many people are involved. Organizations should rely on a very small number of highly capable people with extreme focus.
>The "Skunk Works" model: Modeled after Lockheed Martin's famous radical engineering division, Cummings advocates for isolating elite, cross-functional teams away from corporate or civil service bureaucracies to let them build and test freely
>Character over competence: When selecting leaders, look for intelligence, will, and character. He warns that if someone has intelligence and will but lacks character, "the first two will kill you".
>Extreme horizontal communication: Traditional hierarchies stifle information in vertical silos. Teams must communicate freely across departments without being constrained by traditional "boss/employee" protocols to catch and fix errors instantly
>Progress requires attacking the ‘system of systems’ problem at the right ‘level’. Attacking the problems directly — let’s improve policy X and Y, let’s swap ‘incompetent’ A for ‘competent’ B — cannot touch the core problems, particularly the hardest meta-problem that government systems bitterly fight improvement
>Quantitative Literacy: Political decision-makers often suffer from a lack of numeracy. Cummings advocates for training leaders in basic statistics, probability, and modeling (e.g., a "Maths for Presidents" curriculum) rather than relying on classical humanities backgrounds.
>True Expertise vs. Charisma: He urges distinguishing between genuine experts (who understand the predictability of their domain) and "bluffers" (confident insiders whose noisy judgments often lack empirical accuracy).
Yes, i did use google's AI summary. Low status, i know, but Cummings has a tendency to prattle on and I'm more interested in throwing out some ideas.
20 points to the first person who compares the "viciously small teams" thing to vanguardism….
>>2829565Imma be real with you, I read bits of your post and I'm too hungover to decipher whatever bullshit it is you're selling
>>2829572 - For anything from an actual lib-dem party to a communist party that isn't shit, we should plagarize the structure of Vote Leave, the Apollo program, or Steve Jobs' Apple instead of launching yet another trot sect, boomer reactionary cult, or whatever the fuck YORP thought they were doing.
- When fantasising about being British Stalin/Mao/Attlee (as all leftists secretly do), remember to allude to massive civil service/administrative state reform on a similar model or I'll insult you for shoddy worldbuilding.
- Move fast and break things > move slow and what the fuck do you mean you missed the deadline to register for the local elections in Scotland and Wales jesus christ
>>2829577
Settle down Dominic.
>>2829577
Settle down, Sir Starmer. It's just a bit of banter.
>>2829577
Lol, unionist crying because we pointed the truth out
>>2829584You love diversity so much don't you, so deeply in your heart, the worse diverse people behave the more you love them, I'd love to be there when they stab you to death while calling you a filthy kuffar,
>>2829578>>2829565Whoever do what you are advocating for will be made PM for life. The crown is litteraly in the gutter that basic technocrat developementalist stuff will sweep all players.
>>2829470NGL i thought the Irish Catholic VS Irish Protestant beef was over by now. Do you still have militias patroling the streets at night and gang warfare shit?
>>2829589still have the militias, but don't have the attacks anymore, there are regular riots on the loyalist side but they attack romanians of all people.
>>2829587No muslim ever called me a "taig" !
>>2829591The UK is an odd place by European racism standards in 2026 for being still very racist toward slavs. Even Swizz, Italians and Germans stopped this to redirect the hate on general brown people.
It's like how workers from northern france did pogroms on belgian immigrants in the late XIX century.
Your Party was always a stupid name these people couldn't even organise a bumming at a gay sex dungeon party
>>2829598The real pill is Corbyn is a very nice guy but a genuinely terrible politician.
Peper grinder broke over my curry while I was cooking and like half the peppercorns went in and I've been fishing them out for ages….
>>2829606it's over,it's gonna overpower the taste regardless
>>2829606Will Keir Starmer make an announcement ?
>>2829470>Explain why the English police, in the UK, left Henry Nowak, a Polish catholic to be left to die after being stabbed, not only did they leave him to die, they actively cuffed him while leaving the murderer in peace.Polish.
The catholicism would have been ancillary. They probably wouldn't have even clocked.
>>2829629Obviously, but this shit wouldn't happen to a Swede you know.
>>2829577Have you actually watched the bodycam?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4g81y540y1tVickrum claimed assault and Henry was collapsed on the floor; he was arrested for assault, not "racism", you Daily Mail reading plonker. How were the police supposed to know what happened immediately after arriving on the scene, with one side of the story? Vickrum was eventually arrested, so how exactly is the state on his side? It was an accidental death; tragic, but not an act of racial prejudice, and not a pretext to vigilante justice against minorities, either.
>>2829587Another sign of ignorance is you confusing Sikhism for Islam.
>>2829668Have you ? He was very clearly harmed and he didn't recieve the help he needed, he litterally said "I cant breath" and "I got stabbed" and the cops laughted at him. It doesn't justify racism, but there was very clear malice on the hands of the cops there.
>>2829593It's only Ireland that is like that Poles are now a part of the british herrenvolk.
>>2829678>said "I cant breath"Cops hear this and think "oh god its one of those wokies" I wouldn't be surprised if the arresting officer is a huge reactionary.
>>2829687showing that catholics are more hated then indians in the UK.
>>2829704
This is britpol you fucking tard, go back to your containment thread.
>>2829717
He never said anything about that, are you stupid ?
>>2829725
We just don't want to hear shit about american politics here. I doubt your country is independant from its influence either.
>>2829678>the cops laughed at himNo they didn't. They were impersonal, but never mocked him.
The malice you are implying is in the procedure of dealing with what they perceived to be a typical drunkard assaulting a random man. You are free to timestamp your insights and prove me wrong however.
>>2829743
>or how unorganised and divided the British ChudIntern is.
It's this. It is suffering from success: so large it is starting to splinter.
>>2829527Most Brits don't even really understand the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism.
>>2829532Yeah it's malice because they're cops and he pissed them off through some petty slight, they weren't like "why don't you transubstantiate that blood back inside you mate? Fucking catlick"
>>2829752
Malice is not exclusive to cops of course but can you really deny that it's a profession that attracts dickheads who want to ego trip and tell others what to do
>>2829546Grassroots Left was shit anyway, it was a bunch of young people getting exploited by an unelected cabal of "professional revolutionaries" who made all the decisions in meetings at like 9.30am every weekday so nobody who works for a living can be involved. Plus groups like SWP added next to nothing to the effort while making all sorts of demands.
>>2829593>Germany is no longer racist against slavsLol, proof?
>>2829599No, that's the cope pill that he likes to present, he's actually not that nice of a person and knew full well what his underlings were doing in his name.
>>2829769
We will probably need some kind of law enforcement body after the revolution yes, but I've yet to see how a police force can be set up that doesn't lead to them being alienated from the people they're supposed to protect and end up seeing them as the enemy, or at best as naive idiots who can't understand what it really takes to keep the scum down.
>>2829735When he said that he was stabbed they said "yeah sure mate" they were laughting at him, they absolutly had malice.
>>2829748I obviously meant culturally catholics, like in northern Ireland. There is a hatred for catholic cultures, being seen as backwards, it's not a hatred for transsubstantiation.
Again, cops are asshole, but why were they asshole toward the catholic and not the sikh ? Because the UK despises catholics.
>>2829777He said "I don't think you are, mate" in a dismissive tone, not a mocking tone. And they then proceed to ask him where he has been stabbed.
>>2829790Jesus Christ how horrifying. Also is that saying you need management approval to use your own sex facilities? Basically just go die in other words?
>>2829790Why not just repeal GRA2004 if it is overruled by EA2010?
>>2829833Cause then they have to admit they're repealing it
>>2829830Yep you can't use facilities that match your gender identity at all and need the bosses permission to use facilities that match your birth sex.
Literally have to ask "sir, may I use the bathroom?" even to use the ones you don't want to.
Boss man can say "no" and as long as he promises to stick a portaloo in the car park that's all he needs to do for you.
It's a humiliation ritual.
>>2829833Because that would be bad optics and an admission of the reality of the situation, which is essentially segregation of trans workers.
They have managed to de facto repeal it while (in their demented, crazed, minds) get to avoid official backlash.
Family of the murdered man explicitly said they don't want politicians using his death as a political pawn, yet here we are again.
Absolutely horrific what happened and the police were useless scum as always. Also absolutely no reason a massive sharp blade should be legal to carry when a kirpan can be blunt and like 2 inches.
And none of that justifies people exploiting his death to stoke interracial hatred.
>>2829790If our unions weren't all worthless scabs in hock to the Labour party they'd strike over this on point of principle.
But they won't and then they'll pretend to be surprised when, having proven the principle, the supreme court decides that the Combination Act 1799 supersedes the Employment Rights Act 2025
>>2829944Same thing happened with Lee Rigby and his family. The far right are opportunistic vermin that have no morale compass.
>>2829948It also happened with Lucy Connolly, that as soon as she got out of jail, she apologised for the tweet and said that she is a loving carer for immigrant children. The far right have since abandoned her because she is not a bitter, deranged psychopath.
>>2829668>I've been stabbed>I don't think you have, mateI though that British police were like, actually trained unlike the American ones.
>>2829988They are all nasty cynical fucks who treat anything said to them as lies. This is a huge cultural issue and lead to the rape gangs, their regular ignorance of rape allegations, and general failure to actually take the public seriously.
>>2829995These are the same nonces who complain about the non-whites causing civil disorder. Reminder that 20% of convicted rioters in Southport had previous arrests for domestic violence. When are we going to deport these criminals? Millions must go, as they say.
Where does the country even go from here
Lowe was demanding the reinstatement of the death sentence on twitter whilst Suella simply wrote the line "white lives matter"
The likes of Abbott, Corbyn, not to mention the establishment have utterly failed
>>2830023Looking at the crowd and its interestingly mixed race. "Aryan Vanguard" are in among them which must be quite funny.
But yeah I think this is it. This will be the summer of discontent. How it ends I don't know but there will be much blood spilt in the mean time.
What do we reckon, will this die down before the start of the world cup (the 11th)?
>>2830023>>2830025 (me)
Having thought on this more, this will likely be big and impactful like BLM but like BLM it will fizzle into nothing. There are way too many moving parts. I may be wrong though and this may be "It". The state doesn't know how to react to it and the support is pretty broad (and tbh for good reason). Street left are utterly irrelevant. Except a SUTRnik to get killed in all of this for showing up with a placard that says something stupid. People are still somehow blaming muslims for this btw.
>>2829995Imagine if the left were just allowed to batter police like that without all getting arrested. No wonder the right gets their way.
>>2830065The mad part is hat the right are claiming hat the left can get away with this.
>>2830072The best political strategy is just to lie and play the victim all the time, what have we ever got from taking the high road? Not that it's a fair fight when the right gets plenty of shill money and institutional backing but still.
>>2829606WAs it one of the ones from lidl? That happened to me recently too, took the piss.
The way rightists are so desperate to be left-liberals is yet more proof that left-liberals are their social superiors. "Waah, where's my MLK, where's my George Floyd? Waah, why don't I get one?"
If anything can put you in the mindset of a real nasty neoliberal, a Milton Friedman type, it's realising these losers are too thick, too prejudiced and too arrogant to latch on to these universal liberal symbols, but still think they're entitled to something. You're entitled to nothing, you don't get an affirmative action white loser MLK martyr to boost your self esteem just because you failed to make anything of yourself! Go out there and get a hobby instead of expecting the rest of the world to drop residual social status at your feet.
And just like that you've got it: flip from social status to economics and realize you're just telling these losers to get a job instead of asking for a handout. Neat acting trick! But don't mistake this for a call for sympathy: one can be unemployed by accident and cruel fate without it reflecting any deep personal flaws. To be a cunt loser, and an insecure one no less? In the age of the internet where people derive status from shit like playing games really fast? That's a fundamental personal flaw, luck nothing, daddy didn't love me nothing. As girlboss feminists used to say: do better.
Obviously as a good socialist I think society should be structured in such a way as to help such people improve and give everyone a status hierarchy that leaves them content, but there's a particular contempt that comes from noticing how rightism is fundamentally a movement for nasty losers who manage to wallow in self pity without an ounce of actual empathy.
>>2829470Did the cops know his name before he died? If they didn’t they likely didn’t even know he was catholic
>>2829530The stabber claimed that the man he killed was being racist against him but it turned out to be a lie
>>2830017>Reminder that 20% of convicted rioters in Southport had previous arrests for domestic violence.
>people who get violent at riots are…. violent peopleincredible, i cannot believe this.
>>2830125>If anything can put you in the mindset of a real nasty neoliberal, a Milton Friedman type, it's realising these losers are too thick, too prejudiced and too arrogant to latch on to these universal liberal symbols, but still think they're entitled to something. You're entitled to nothing, you don't get an affirmative action white loser MLK martyr to boost your self esteemTheir big point with this stuff is asking, why are the social progressives types who were going out of their minds over the george floyd stuff a continent away not out marching now?
a minority unironically weaponized his minority status to get the coppas to handcuff a guy bleeding to death on the ground and read him his rights as he died, while the guy that stabbed him wasn't put in handcuffs, even after novak died they still didn't cuff him
Its just such an extreme example of unequal treatment its like shit out of the american south during the 1950s.
>>2830125Are you from a working class background? Do you know how thankless it is to work hard if you have no connections or familial support? You say "get a hobby" but do you realise how having money in the first place is a necessity to monetise your work? Particularly with the social media landscape today
>>2829801One cop asked if they should check him, the other one says no, why on earth they wouldn't check a clearly hurt guy who is dying in front of their eyes. They also put him in handcuffs and dragged him, when he was very clearly unresponsive
>>2830148I don't know, but he very clearly looked polish
>>2830168The reaction to Goerge Floyd's murder should have been opposition to police violence rather then opposition to racism, you're likely to be a victim of police violence if you're a poor white person
>>2830168>>2830226What are you even talking about? At least with the Novak case the perp got arrested at the trial for a minimum of 21 years. What more are they even asking?
They just want an excuse to chimpout. Btw, I also aopposed the BLM riots, so don’t come here with your manipulative shit.
Plus let’s be honest here, much like with the gang wars against the bloods and crips, as well as the BLM riots and wars with martyrs, no one gives an actual shit about the actual Novak, they just:
- Want to riot for the sake of it
- Are merely using him as a martyr for their own ethnic grievances, and honestly poor whites are too coddled for their own good. Europe’s poorest are the world’s richest ffs. Do you even know what is it like to live in some slum in Siberia?
As for the racism charge, well perhaps Novak shouldn’t have gotten into a pub (Digwa did say he was drunk, so the police probably thought it was a drunken fight, although it still wouldn’t justify the cuffing of Novak as they should’ve just carried him to the hospital or call 111) much like George Floyd shouldn’t have been a drug user and resist arrest.
The UK at this point is just wigger Europe.
As for the whining about the lack of money: Brih you literally live in the fucking UK. If you can’t get cash then you’re a failed normie. No, Starmer doesn’t excuse your own failures as a man, men worse off than you rose to the challenge and ended up better than you (like Martin Luther). You literally have zero excuse mate. Now stop being a sore loser and get a job, this is a first world country LOL
>>2830285Digwa very obviously lied about him being drunk and racist. He wasn't drunk and was under the drunk driving pub, I also don't think going to a pub warrants the death penalty.
Beyond that your point about poor europeans is just dumb, just shows you're a privileged american, you have no idea what life is like for the poor europeans.
>>2829994>rape gangsActually, they were right on the money with that one. Well, at least before the mass hysteria (over barely 3% of le CSA no less) got to them. Read:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-19741304
>"Janet Foulds, former chair of the British Association of Social Workers, was responding to a report on the Rochdale grooming case which found that some social workers thought the victims were mature enough to make their own decisions about sex. […] "But the way that the children and young people are groomed may give people the impression that it is consensual, but it absolutely isn't.""Another banger:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjd9xnjyy8po
>"I didn't feel like I was groomed or exploited. I didn't think I was a victim. It's taken me a while to realise I was used and manipulated. "It gave my life purpose for a bit and I felt needed," she added. "I didn't feel that at home. I was looking for something because I [was] lonely and bored.""[…]"'They didn't want anything but sex' Another London survivor, whom we are calling Ruth, said she was also exploited for sex. "They didn't want anything but sex. I was low and they gave me expensive things so I felt wanted and then slept with them. It felt like I had multiple boyfriends giving me attention. They were South Asian men - they took advantage of my situation." It's happening in London," she added. "And those who don't believe it need to look again." The women we spoke to say their stories prove that not all grooming-gang cases in the city involve drug dealing and other criminality."Truly, we live in an ‘idolatry of victimhood’:
https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/10/29/the-idolatry-of-victimhood >>2830294
"European"
Coward. Drop your actual country, so we'll have a laugh.
>>2830281Ok, so the question is: Is this standard practice among police, and could the Polish university student been saved if the police took proper procedures?
Because, regardless of whether the cops and Dogwa are arrested, I don’t think it’ll quell the whitelash. For once, the British government is already distrusted regardless of what it does. Second, anything the government can’t swiftly solve will be fertile grounds for culture wars.
As for the British left? I think it’s time to become more militant and organise self defense forces because as the months go by the reactionaries will become more violent. They’ll first start off with acceptable targets like trans people, pedophilic people, and immigrants, before eventually moving onto leftist orgs.
I know it’s a hard pill to take on, but the age of electoralism at least for the British left is over. Your best bet is to either leave the country or just saddle on and be prepared for the worst.
>>2830299Isle of Man. Now say yours loser.
>>2830310Brexit meant Brexit, you will never be a real european.
(France,BTW)
Leftybros, our response?
While it’s easy to condemn the police’s unprofessional conduct as well as Digwa for lying and said police for taking his lies at face value, how do we tackle the racial angle?
By ignoring it? Affirming reactionaries’ opinions? Contextualise Novak’s case in the broader context of police brutality and call for changes within the police force? Or stay silent?
Any better idea?
Also, do you guys think the killings of George Floyd and Anthony Walker were justified, or not? If so, why?
>>2830327Just understand that the family gave a formal statement not to make Henry's death divisive, and so the rioters are serving their own antisocial, opportunistic interests, with blatant disrespect to Henry himself.
>George FloydGeorge Floyd was only a martyr to the same sort of antisocial opportunists on the left. Riots are the direct opposite of revolutionary activity, so should be forbidden by all principled leftists.
>>2830327There is nothing "the left" can meaningfully say or do at this point. It is irrelevant. We have fully Hungarianised our politics. This anon is right though
>>2830303 we have been facing right wing proto-paramilitaries for a bit in Manchester that is where we are headed.
>>2830342My bet is that said paramilitaries are inspired by Ulster loyalists, given how that’s where some of ‘em relocated when escaping from blood feuds in Northern Ireland:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/shankill-suburbs-how-loyalist-hardman-27215408Which begs the question: Do the MI5 and MI6 still work with Ulster loyalist paramilitaries and are the ones behind organising the British far-right? Because, as conspiratorial as it sounds, it’s just a fact that liberal democracies often foster fascists to be used as attack dogs against any proletarian revolt, or as cheerleaders for the next big military adventure that will only benefit the oligarchs.
As for the “Hungarianisation” thingy, I think Kahanisation is a better term since it perfectly captures how Israeli the British far right has become, whether it’s their petty tribalism, the thirst for blood and violence on par with demons portrayed in Christian eschatology, and general stupidity that is only kept on the leash by the more high verbal autism score elites.
As for the future, I don’t think the country will head to a brutal civil war like the Spanish one in the immediate future, but it’ll more likely be similar to Italy’s years of lead where you had a liberal centre barely struggling to contain both far left and far right street violence, or Weimar Germany in general where EVERY party had its own paramilitary proficient in street gang warfare.
Not sure what the closest analogue to the UK is beyond the Troubles.
>>2830350>My bet is that said paramilitaries are inspired by Ulster loyalistsThey are explicitly so since they are predominately Britain First-aligned (itself heavily tied to Loyalist groups).
>Not sure what the closest analogue to the UK is beyond the Troubles.There isn't one. We are in uncharted territory for British history. The times when there has been mass social unrest it was proletarian organisations. We have never had a mass reactionary movement.
>>2830168I wrote a more in depth reply but I'll cut it and just go for this
>Its just such an extreme example of unequal treatment its like shit out of the american south during the 1950s.You're doing it again! You can't just go "this is a sui-generis injustice faced by my in-group that you should care about", you have to go "Look, look liberals, we're just like American black people too! you have to love us like you love them!"
>>2830226You don't have to monetise your hobbies
and in-fact I'd council against it, since you might feel bad when you realise nobody wants to give you money.
I am "from a working class background"
I prefer to think of myself as one of a small number of "normal people", e.g. not a middle class wanker but also not someone with a chip on their shoulder about how working class they are. more importantly, I do not have a good job
now either. That doesn't get me ranting about how hard done by I am
as a white-boy, however, because I can still derive a sense of self-worth and status from being smart and correct about politics and sociology and arguing about it on leftypol.org. That's a hobby! Not a profitable one, but a hobby!
This is one of the things I judge rightists for: there are infinite optional status hierarchies and in-groups and they insist on sticking to ones where they're a fucking loser
while arrogantly maintaining the presumption it should be otherwise. Well, I'm not a loser, I'm just poor.
>>2830287>Truly, we live in an ‘idolatry of victimhood’As the great liberal, Murray Rothbard (1979) once said, the victim gains a privilege in their status, because when "society" is blamed, every individual besides them becomes responsible for their problems (this is later repeated by Thatcher's infamous quote). We see this sentiment as early as the socialist Robert Owen, who attributed all crime to external causes, and so literally found no error in the criminal, but only in the structure of society itself (a bit similar to how when catholics would execute people, their soul would be forgiven, yet their mortal body punished by death - the process of "rehabilitation" obviously has its religious content, in redeeming the corrupted soul). Marx gives attribution of this to the emanation of French Materialism (1845):
<If man is unfree in the materialistic sense, i.e., is free not through the negative power to avoid this or that, but through the positive power to assert his true individuality, crime must not be punished in the individual, but the anti-social sources of crime must be destroyed, and each man must be given social scope for the vital manifestation of his being.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/holy-family/ch06_3_d.htmYet we see this already in Aristotle's writings (350 BCE):
<poverty is the parent of revolution and crime.https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.2.two.htmlDisplaying causation to the phenomenon of crime, and thus, a mechanics of civil disorder. Here, the ends of policy is given by the formal structure of society itself. The consequence is the status of being a victim of society in general. Being a victim then, has currency, because it substitutes agency from oneself to another.
As a person who has the pathology of often victimising myself, I understand its toxicity, to oneself and to others.
>>2830354There is something contemptible in victimhood, and something contemptible in visibly lacking empathy for victims. Hence we generally politely ignore professional victims on the left, like other leftists, and loathe rightoids who play victim undeservedly but have no empathy for other victims and indeed decry their game.
Maybe the ideal society is one where everyone tells you you're a victim and that one should sympathise with victims, but you have to insist you're not, "it was nothing" style, or else being socially awkward.
>>2830352>You're doing it again! did you have a stroke or did it take you 7 hours to figure that out
>>2830380or maybe i'm having a stroke
>doing it again>againit was 1(one) post, you replied to it 2(two) times
>>2830377Well, what is best is to devalue the status of being a victim by giving people available options to gain independence. If there is truly no excuse for self-inflicted misery, then the victim has no more recourse to blame others. We need more than "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" (which itself is a rhetorical paradox), yet we need to foster a culture of responsibility nonetheless. For example, in a socialist society, the possibility of failure should still exist, to teach people how to succeed, without the unnecessary cruelty or inequality of capitalism. If you are given money, you should be allowed to waste it, and for which case, inequality is justified. The project of racial reparations in the US has this sort of ethos, that once the historical debt is paid, there are no more excuses, and thus a natural equality of opportunity. This is also what Rothbard suggests.
Victims are le held up in our le society, i can't believe this :chudface:
>>2829790What's preventing someone from just refusing to disclose whether they are trans or lying about being cis? If you have female on your id then for legal purposes you are a woman no? You can't really find the trans Juden unless you mandate a legally binding penis inspection day
>>2830389Conservatism is an eternal politics of victimhood:
>mandatory seatbelts? you are oppressing me!Even being a chud (e.g. incel) is literally claiming to be a victim of existence, akin to exclaiming "I didn't choose to be born" in all its infantilism.
>>2830388The problem with just having responsibility (even in conditions of general socialist abundance) is that you lose the valuable cultivation of empathy that having victims around stimulates, unless we move to caring deeply about ameliorating the suffering of wild animals or something instead. Being a victim is bad for you, but every new soviet man really ought to be a bit of a saviour.
Maybe we could have everyone responsible for something, but a victim (usually "of nature") in some other sense. Everyone responsible for both themselves and for others, everyone high status to themselves and lower status to others. From each… something something.
>>2830397>>2830354thank you for this decade late schizobabble on victim hood
A theory: rightoids struggle with and thus hate self-authorship, which is why transgenderism is the major culture war flashpoint it is. (It sets societal expectations directly against self actualisation) They want someone else to script their lives for them and don't want to be told they're responsible for choosing a derivative script and then performing it badly.
This is also why they can't come up with their own victim narratives and always find themselves plagiarising the left. It takes some imagination to decide you're oppressed by pomegranates but none whatsoever to swap whites and blacks in the Yankee script or blame the Jews like it's 400AD.
>>2830431Nothing they've said is schizobabble and they're basically correct about the right being addicted to feeling victimised
>>2830444So, I other words they’re just failed normies? That explains a lot, like how many of them idolise Japan even tho it’s basically NPC topia where dissent is socially stigmatised and being an edgelord is looked down upon. Like, even being a loudmouthed chud is met with scorn by the public as anti-social behaviour despite Japanese society being chuddish thanks to a weak left and the public being passive towards their reactionaries.
As to why chuds are prone to victimhood, methinks it has to do with both how they’re such losers they would still be losers even if they lived in a white ethnostate, and the fact that the modern wignat has no experience actually ruling over anything since 1945, so their only experience as a political bloc is when they’re the underdog, which is why MAGA and Reform act like victims being persecuted despite the former being the literal US government at time of this writing, while Reform is being funded by dark money interest on the top of the media class giving it lip service and promos (unlike Zack who gets hounded as an anti-Semite for wanting Britain to do BDS on Israel even tho both Reform and Restore have literal Nazis in their ranks). Not to mention that Rupert Lowe pretends to be a victim too despite he himself being an oligarch on the top of being payrolled by the world richest man who is also a cyberpunk-style nazi billionaire who is a product of apartheid SA.
Just a thought there.
>>2830444>Nothing they've said is schizobabble and they're basically correct about the right being addicted to feeling victimisedIts a grasp for straws to flip the old victim narrative stuff that was in vogue a decade ago onto rightoids who aren't going to care whatsoever, brought on by an event where a migrant successfully victimized himself to the police after stabbing someone to get the guy he stabbed put in cuffs instead of himself, with schizo babble bought on by people drawing obvious comparisons to jorge floyd
Literally no one's going to take this seriously
>>2830403There will always be victims, but the question is whether people must always be treated as victims of others, or of themselves. So long as you have external victimisation, you cannot have personal responsibility. So my plea for socialism is a plea for maturity, in precisely the Kantian sense of "enlightenment" (1784):
<Enlightenment is the human being’s emergence from his self-incurred [immaturity]. [Immaturity] is inability to make use of one’s own understanding without direction from another.https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/ethics/kant/enlightenment.htmIn civil society, this maturity is taken for granted, which then permits one's subjection to law, but political criticism as a legal discourse must intervene at this level to reform current conditions so as to make people free by better laws. Engels relates this to Marx (1886):
<England is the only country where the inevitable social revolution might be effected entirely by peaceful and legal means. [Marx] certainly never forgot to add that he hardly expected the English ruling classes to submit, without a “pro-slavery rebellion,” to this peaceful and legal revolution.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/p6.htmAristotle in diagnosing the causes of crime, also suggests the redistribution of property to allow for a general entrance into the middle class, and in other places, directly criticises existing laws, such that murder was treated less harshly than theft. Plato wrote his Laws, as did Moses, and Jesus established the essence of the law in the spirit, not the letter. The act of jurisprudence is then significant to world-historical revolution, as a means to make us more free; e.g. all revolution is a legal re-constitution, such as we see in this country with the Magna Carta (1215), Petition of Right (1628), Instrument of Government (1653) and the Bill of Rights (1688). We see in France, the Declaration of the Rights of Man (1789); in the US, the Declaration of Independence (1776), Constitution (1787), Bill of Rights (1789), Emancipation Proclamation (1865), etc. Robert Owen also wrote codes of law in his work, such as in "Revolution in the Mind" (1849). An issue with much of Marx's own criticism is that it is too negative, and so fails to build a positive project, codefied in law.
rightoids unironically saying "I can't breathe", i'm sorry but that's hilarious
>>2830516Yh, especially given all those years of muh law an ordah, back the blues, etc…
So it made me think: For as much as the average rightoid chants about “high trust society” this and dat, many of their characteristics such as low trust in institutions, penchant towards conspiratorialism, lack of inhibition towards violence compared to the average leftist, and hyper-individualism would obviously clash with the needs of a high-trust society such as conformity and high trust on institutions.
Because if that case happened in Japan, SK or China, there wouldn’t be riots and protests over it since:
- The state would do its best to cover it up and minimise the case
- Most normies would be too trustful towards institutions to do shit. Case in point, the many times US army soldiers raped Japanese women and girls. Apart from localised protests, none actually rioted over it in Tokyo. Same happens in SK as well. Why? Both because the normies there trust the state to a high degree due to societally-enforced conformism, and because the concept of harmony is upheld by the state so much so that any attempt to break said harmony is is countered with partial media blackouts and minimisations.
Also, isn’t it ironic how chuds claim America is a low-trust society, when the fact that Americans give tips to services despite nothing legally forcing them to is a great counterpoint?
Now, I’m not sure what would be the equivalent of that in the UK or Ireland for that matter…
>>2830473>Literally no one's going to take this seriouslyNo one takes anything seriously in chud/TERF island because the collapse of civics has meant that almost every group, political or otherwise, lives in its own echo chamber. Guess what? We are now at a point where politics is just pure spiteful tribal cold warfare led by a series of opportunists.
And honestly, both the capitalist left and capitalist right bear the blame for it, whether it’s Nigel Farage, Margaret Thatcher or Keir Starmer or any other capitalist shill.
Also, isn’t it me or does anyone find it weird that a case from months ago is being brought up just now? Like, where was the energy for the riots back in December 2025, the month and year in which the murder occurred, and why now just as Digwa got arrested?
>>2829272Is it that bad tho? I think there could be improvements like flying the Union Jack alongside the Palestine one. Now, that would be rad.
>>2830527>the capitalist left and the capitalist rightthere is no "capitalist left", they're neolibs
>>2830542People who are anti-racist, feminist, and support LGBTQ+ rights but are also capitalist in the sense that they favor the pure free market-ism or that but with a welfare state (i.e., Rhine capitalism) are technically on the left of the political spectrum if we use the quadrant model of the political mapping.
>>2830527the energy is manufactured through right-wing networks. get "ARRRRR TOMMEHHH" on it to amplify it for the orcs and trolls.
>>2830545like I said, neolibs who want a socially left-wing message to market so they control the superstructure for the capitalist base
>>2830516or writing it on their masks to show their opposition to disease control
>>2830527>isn’t it me or does anyone find it weird that a case from months ago is being brought up just now?bodycam footage came out 2 days ago
>where was the energy for the riots back in December 2025, the month and year in which the murder occurred, and why now just as Digwa got arrested?details were still fuzzy
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y2lklgpl9o Keir Starmer called me a "fooking donkey" and told me to "fack off" on my way to the poob
>>2830546Speaking of orcs, I think it would be a good idea for the lib left to reappropriate the LOTR franchise from the right. Like, it has all the signs:
>Author was a WW1 veteran who opposed Nazism in WW2>Said author was an anti-apartheid Catholic in a deeply Protestant country that supported apartheid South Africa all the way until the 1980s>His book is about a multiracial coalition fighting against an evil empire made of monsters who pose a threat to the world>Silmarrion features an interracial relationshipBefore the objections come in, the only point that I’ll concede is that it’s indeed childish idealistic slop that isn’t particularly feminist. On that I’ll agree. But for the rest, not so much. I’ll address them point by point:
- On classism: While it is true that most of the hero’s party is made up of nobles and aristocrats, it is also true that the books show that good character in itself isn’t innate to the nobility, as shown by how Sam, Frodo’s servant, often acts as the one who has to rectify Frodo’s character and often shows virtues typically associated with nobles
- On the Shire: It’s not supposed to be some Arcadia, as shown by how the Hobbits’ own provincialism has led them into being easy pawns for Sauron. And you know who saves the place? Not the locals, but the Hobbits who are displayed as worldly and travelled far and wide.
- On racism: The orcs aren’t even human, but that didn’t stop Sam from pondering on their humanity in an empathetic way, nor for Tolkien to give his own in-universe explanation which sadly he couldn’t complete, leaving us with different origin stories for the orcs with each having different and contradictory implications from one another. As for the Haradrim and Easterlings? Well, both are forgiven after the war. As for their physical appearance, “swarthy” can mean any number of things and “slant eyed” just as easily describes Slavs and Scandinavians. I should also mention that Mordor is on the north, which complicates the notion of a good west/north vs evil east/south moral geography applied to LOTR’s fictional geography.
In fact, if it wasn’t for the introduction of the paperback format for mass publishing and hippies adopting LOTR en masse for its supposed agrarian and anti-industrial message (Tolkien opposed allegories in general, btw) then LOTR would be left into the dustbins of history considering how back when it was published it was considered as juvenile idealistic slop by the literary press.
Good or bad idea?
Because if WW2 and the British empire can’t be adopted thanks to BLM despite it being the only national mythos in the UK that was capable of uniting both the four countries plus the BAMEs of yore (such as the Windrush generation), then LOTR might be the only viable story that is pertinent to British culture.
Otherwise, the left would be amiss to try to unite Britain under a socialist cause.
And yes, I’m aware of that Russian take on the LOTR where the canon is portrayed as victors’ propaganda against the proletarian orcs and Soviet leader Sauron, but that isn’t the point for now.
>>2830575>>2830593Is the joke about Starmer allegedly using a trust to buy a donkey sanctuary for his parents and then selling it to dodge inheritance tax?
>>2830553>>2830571That looks genuinely bad then for Starmer. Now, whether the left can cajole some of these rioting lumpen into being antifa by using the anti-cop energy is another question altogether because, frankly, I’ve never seen any gammon turning into a leftist with just talks.
But yes, I do think the focus on race, even if pertinent in this particular, is ultimately a distraction over the broader issue of the unspoken police brutality in Europe that affects poor people regardless of race. You’d be surprised at how militarised the police forces in France, Spain, Italy and Germany are. I have Italian friends who showed me some of the latest news from Naples, concerning a police task force brutally evicting a poor working class Italian family after they failed to pay rent.
Granted, I’m not sure if the narrative that police is really afraid of racism as gammons say is truthful considering the general trend of cops being chudded out as well as the fact that for years the British left has claimed that the slow trial over the murder of Anthony Walker was due to the Met’s racist bias and the fact that the white perp was the son of some upper class Briton.
Up
>>2830607
In that case Burnham’s best bet would be to have Restore actively compete against Reform in Makerfield to split the right wing vote.
>>2830636Yes, Restore is a party of the terminally online. They will get "Only Ran" status outside of Greater Yarmouth.
Considering how Digwa is an Indian and Henry was a Pole, here are some good baits for you to use on gammons. They should be something like:
- “Who cares? It’s just migrant-on-migrant violence. Send them all back to where they came from.”
- “Both are invaders to our native land. Remigrate all of them, Slavic uyghurs included. No exception. This is BRITAIN, not WHITETAIN”
- “Why u so mad? It’s just untermensch-on-untermensch murder, or did the Polacks turn into Aryans the moment Tatar leader of the Soviet Golden Horde Putler decided to attack the Aryan empire of Polonia?”
- “uygha-uygha intraviolence is no concern for me, whether it’s curry uygha or sausage uygha. Now STFU and let me watch my F.C. sports show.”
I used a variation of the third point back when Iryna’s murder was still en vogue on X’itter, and the amount of chuds that I baited with was enormous. Hell, they even thought I was pro-Ukraine despite me LARPing as a Zigger.
>>2830660>This is BRITAIN, not WHITETAINThat's what you'd like to think, but no contemporary nationalist actually has a concept of what Britain is or ought to be except somewhere that was once more "white" and should return to that condition. People are entirely consumed by philistine presentism.
>>2830673
>English nationalists
But what do they know of England, as Enoch Powell once exclaimed? They imagine that history began in 1945, after the great primordial chaos we call WW2. As an amateur researcher of English history, it is isolating to collect facts about this island from before the 20th century, because people find no continuity in it. They are wholly absorbed in the post-war myth, even without giving credit to Attlee in founding the social democratic welfare state, and which these same "nationalists" seem hell-bent on dismantling since the 70s onwards.
>>2830677I can't tell you how much I loathe those rightoid droneflies who echo everything the ultra-rich tell them to say.
Our boy Sir Keir Starmer has proudly announced he is straight up giving £1.3 billion in British taxpayer's money to Comcast/Universal Studios to help them pay for their new theme park in Bedfordshire.
What the fuck is he thinking???
Why can't the US megacorp worth almost £100 billion pay for it themselves??
>>2830740Someone tell Keir Universal is pushing transgenrism NOW
>>2830740Because the English will never accomplish anything useful, that’s why.
t. Karl Marx
>>2830327>do you guys think the killings of George Floyd and Anthony Walker were justified, or not? If so, why?Why the fuck would you even say that? Are you retarded?
>>2830285>What more are they even asking?For the police to be put on trial for manslaughter.
>>2830941That is hoping against hope
Spindly Hitler supporter and avid Neo Nazi Steve Laws wants you to know that he is really, really concerned about the life of the Polish Henry Nawak, even doe if Henry was sent to 1940 Germany he would most likely be in a concentration camp, just as the very Fuhrer Steve fawns over wanted to.
In all seriousness tho, I find it sickening how avowed Neo-Nazis Pearl clutch about the death of Slavs as if they themselves aren’t opportunists who merely see dead Europeans as martyrs that solely exist to justify their ethnic grievances not unlike how the crops use their dead as martyrs to rally around for their next gang wars.
Remember all that AI slop of Hitler hugging Iryna Zarutska posted by chuds, as if Hitler wasn’t a virulent Slav-hater?
As much as I think the cops were dumb and should be arrested, the opportunism behind the UK riots makes me cynical of any rightoid on X’itter lecturing us over this. Like c’mon, man.
Anyway, whatever man, I don’t think there’s anything the British left can do about it besides trolling chuds on X’itter for some cheap laughs, or doing something more useful like developing its own paramilitary wing.
>>2831044Will Starmer finally ban AI after this?
Because if he does, that might be a boon for society given how much people are led into believing in lies thanks to AI.
Inb4 “banning doesn’t work”: Fine, then explain how the hell does the state successfully manage to ban AI ‘p in the first place?
>>2831110i have long advocated for deporting these wastes of flesh instead of the immigrants because it would be immensely funnier and karmic
>>2831117Considering that the government made Shamima Begum stateless despite being born in the UK, there's precedent that we can just deport and strip citizenship from any natural born citizen that we want.
>>2831137I have always the left cucked itself by not using deportations and stripping of citizenship more as part of it's political project.
>>2831145Err I mean of who? You mean foreign nationals or just British citizens? The Begun case was highly unusual.
>>2831147Having an leftist ICE (but actually efficient) that silence/deport reactionary diasporoids back to where they comes from regardless of their social status. While it goes without saying we indigenous right-wingers are our ennemies, we should show absolutely no mercy to brown diasporic ones or even non-indigenous white ones.
Basically if your ancestors are not-of-the-place and you start professing anti-progressive ideas despite running away from the reactionary mess your ancestors made in your home country: you're going to gitmo uygha.
>>2831151Hmm, dark woke.
But still, question is how do you deal with white British reactionaries who have taken money from foreign governments or offshore tax-dodging British oligarchs who barely step foot in Britain (e.g., Tommy 10 names) or shill for them (e.g., Rupert Lowe)? Are the current laws even sufficient to deal with them? How about Neo-Nazis like Steve Laws? Or “dark money” orgs like the obscene number of think tanks registered at Tufton Street?
Because in-between gulags and deportations, deporting British reactionaries to Australia or in some desolate island devoid of wildlife owned by Britain would probably be more cost-effective than maintaining a complex system of gulags and re-education camps.
Also, what to make of Irish tradCaths, militant Ulster loyalists, and reactionaries like Keith Woods and Uberboyo who live in the Irish isle but have connections in the UK? Should they be forced into re-education camps or be deported to Ireland or somewhere in the commonwealth of nations?
Because those are the kinds of question you’d have to ask once in power, and questions of censorship and dark woke are only pertinent if you’re in power. If you’re an underdog with little to no sway in mainstream politics, then it just becomes navel gazing for the sake of it.
>>2831151>While it goes without saying we indigenous right-wingers are our ennemies (sic)Wait, are you saying that you’re part of leftybritpol’s enemies?
>>2831154Continuing from here, I would like to know if the same standards of deportation would also apply to citizens of anglosphere countries like the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
Like, would people such as Drew Pavlou, Valentina Gomez, Anna Slatz, Tyler Oliveira et al. be subject for deportations too?
Deportations are too right-coded and raise questions around international law when it comes to deporting your own citizens. That's not good, don't scare the hoes.
No, far-right creeps should simply be sent to labour and rehabilitation centres in nice pleasant British territories like Ascension island, the Falklands, or in the lovely city of Plymouth, Montserrat.
>>2831164Welp, guess gulags will have to do it then, with deportations being limited to illegal immigrants who lied on their Visa application (such as Elon Musk when he illegally entered America).
>>2831164do deportations, but not exact deportations, either stay here in prison, or go to the USA, where you belong, in exchange for your citizenship
>>2831027Laws is a "deport the white ethnics too" guy no idea why he suddenly cares about a Pole.
I live in a povvo nazi shithole in the most irrelevant and deprived part of the country
>>2831358Move to London.
If you are young in 2026 i don't know why you would waste your time trapped in B to Z-tier cities when even the shittiest part of London are better if you take into account the proximity with the relevant people/jobs/network.
Don't get me wrong there's lots of pleasant small to medium sized town but it's not 1960s anymore if you don't inherit property from your family it's pointless to stay there youll never make any money, you can come back when you're retired.
>>2831360No offense but I don't think I could adjust to life in a city, I like living out in the sticks I just wish it wasn't so hitlerite and pot holed
doing myself in if i don't get this job i interviewed for today
>>2831385If they tell you no, call them back and thank them for the job and ask when you start and shit, if they're overwhelmed it might work (depends on the job of course, but if it's a mass type job, it could work)
>>2831931Critical support for Reform in their fight again Burnhamites antistarmerites.
Starmer Forever.
>>2831995Doxxed yourself lad I know which twitter account you got this from.
I wish radlibs were more organised and coherent, easier to separate from the broader left.
Not, as is traditional, because I want a real left absent radlibs, but because the "real left" are a gaggle of proven losers with the gall to be arrogant about it and, worst of all, an inability to say anything that's not been said a thousand times before. I can see nothing of value in them: bores who've wasted their lives, will continue to waste their lives.
Radlibs on the other hand I can see potential in. Their hearts are in the right place even if their heads haven't always caught up yet. Such a shame that they're stuck between the Scylla of doomed electoral ventures and the Charybdis of actually joining a boomer party-cult.
>>2832207There is no left in the UK, there is only identity politics.
>>2832232I know it's probably controversial here but I really love watching the pigs batter the white working class. It's just so funny to me.
Rumour mill is that Sir Starmer will announce a social media ban for under 16s in the next 2 weeks
Note you'll still need ID (or more realistically a VPN) to access anything 18+
>>2832290why. is this a 5d chess move ?
>>2832298Not to be a quack, but I genuinely think that Starmer is either a plant put by the MI5 to sabotage the Labour Party to screw over the left in preparations for a fascist takeover of the UK as part of broader preparations for WW3, hence the surveillance state being implemented across the west and this sudden massive surge in AI data centre constructions despite AI startups losing net profits yearly ever since their introduction, and I don’t think whoever will succeed Starmer will change that.
Or, to be more religious, Starmer is a divine punishment on the British left for failing to stand up for Corbyn for being a run-of-the-mill eurolefty who was only edgy in the context of Anglo politics wrt Israel, as well as for not taking a definite stance on Brexit.
Because if you remember, among commoners their real issue with Corbyn had less to do with the bogus anti-semitism charges, and more with how he didn’t provide a concrete stance on Brexit, instead flip-flopping on it.
Why are they gating literal factory work behind years of experience btw?
>>2832031Didn't see it on twitter my friend just sent them to me lol
>>2832375>I genuinely think that Starmer is either a plant put by the MI5TBH i think it's fair to have this assumption since one learns the stuff about him working on the Northern Ireland Policing Board and all that.
>>2832375>I genuinely think that Starmer is either a plant put by the MI5 to sabotage the Labour Party to screw over the leftI would say that's pretty obviously true, I don't know whether the plan was always to have Reform take over, I think the deep state would have been happy with an eternal Starmerreich where centrist tyranny reigns, because they are already getting everything they want, but definitely the plan was to murder the left.
>>2832375The left stuck to Corbyn pretty well, it's only idiots who abandoned him. Remember: if only degree holders could vote then Corbyn did Blair '97 numbers in 2019.
>>2832446Well, idiots and (possibly) MI5 agents like Owen Jones.
>>2832375The more familiar you are with politicians personally the more these omnipotent fed/shadow businessman cabal agents theory falls flat.
Keir is just decent manager with zero transformative ambitions or defined worldview that can be groomed into doing anything based on the selected internal polls his count eunuch hand him, it's zombie left-liberalism. There is no "deep state" and there is no Q insider behind the scenes pulling all the strings otherwise the country would be ran much better like the CCP or Singapore is doing. Trump litteray shows there's no masonic gatekeepers in their evangelion agartha base being the secret rulers, things are actually what they seems to be and our elites are just degenerated.
>>2832390This is 75% of the reason so many young people are enemployed and on disability/welfare btw.
>>2832617>This is 75% of the reason so many young people are enemployed and on disability/welfare btw.We can read from Indeed's own website:
<Aiming for somewhere between 10 to 15 applications per week gives you a good opportunity to find new positions […] Broken down, this is around two to three applications per day […] The average length of time it takes for someone to find a job is around 27 dayshttps://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/how-many-applications-to-get-jobConservative estimates then range from 50 to 80 applications per job over the span of a month. You can also see on Indeed how many other people have applied for the same position, and every single job has hundreds of people asking for it.
>>2832619Do not forget a very significant numbers of job offers you find online are either fake datamining bullshit or duplicated which inflate the numbers of "available" jobs. I know that's certainly the case in France
>>2832620Absolutely, rarely do you ever get any response from an Indeed posting
Indeed and Linkdin need to be smashed
>>2832733
Fuck off back to your containment general
We Will Kill For Keir.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3prqrdd2poShe deleted her X'itter account. I guess Musk didn't bother to pay her the XitterBuxx. But yh, the lengths at which Britain goes to cater to the whims of hate-mongering middle-to-upper class harpies like Eacock and Rowling is another proof of the classism that is omnipresent in British society.
>>2833378>Eacock also praised former MP Enoch Powell for his infamous Rivers of Blood speech, saying "55 years later his words have come true".It havent though? He was predicting an imminent total race war lmao not petty crimes and kebab shops
I'm starting to think that the "Kier Starmer is the Great Leader" posting is a covert Labour Mi6 psyop to get socialists to make propaganda for their party.
>>2833382That, or irony posting turning into unironic posting. Y'know, like how Youtuber jjjacksfilms managed to create an ironic fandom around the Emoji movie with less effort than the entirety of Sony's promotional team.
>>2833378https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrIkNd4WEcY1:43
>American emoji>But somehow the European right isn't a foreign intel opAny explanation as to why the average gammon loves to suck America's star-spangled cock with as much delight as every Jewish cock they find on the street, on the top of being very servile to the USA and the zionist entity?
Because, apart from the disgust factor, it just further confirms my hypothesis that the average fascist is just as rootless and cosmopolitan as the immigrants and the elites they claim to hate, on the top of global chuddism being a vehicle for noahdism.
i'm beginners to really hate this america fellow
>>2833447she was a material(ist) girl
Thought this was quite cool
The Scottish Kurdish Community held its 10th Congress: A new commune system was declared.The Scottish Kurdish Community held its 10th Ordinary Congress with high participation to shape its structure for the new period. The congress, attended by delegates from different regions of Kurdistan and various social groups, adopted new resolutions based on the "commune system," aiming for democratic and participatory self-organization.
The congress, which began with a moment of silence in memory of the Kurdistan Freedom Martyrs, featured an opening presentation by a member of the Diplomacy Commune. The commune member addressed the necessities of the new process, highlighting the importance of the commune system in social organization. Following the presentation, a four-person presidium consisting of two women and two men was elected to preside over the congress.
The congress agenda began with the sharing of solidarity messages sent by PİR-DER, MLKP, and the Women's Movement. Following this, the new manifesto of the Scottish Kurdish Community was read to the participants and voted on.
In the section on political assessments, speakers emphasized the focus of Önder Apo's paradigm on women, youth, and social freedom. Stating that the Kurdish people are going through a critical period, the speakers stressed the need to expand the organized struggle against political developments in the region. Referring to the assessments of Kasım Engin, the speakers called for the protection of the region's resources and social values.
<MORE THAN 10 COMMUNES WERE ESTABLISHED.After the activity reports were read, discussed, and approved, the congress moved on to its main agenda item: the restructuring.
Following the voting, the establishment of more than 10 new communes operating across Scotland was officially announced. Representatives for the new term were chosen through democratic elections. The common goal for the new term was to increase community participation and improve the effectiveness of community services.
The congress concluded with the chanting of slogans expressing commitment to the goals of the new period of struggle.
https://anfenglishmobile.com/avrupa/Iskocya-kurt-toplumu-10-kongresini-gerceklestirdi-yeni-komun-sistemi-Ilan-edildi-229620>>2833502They did the same thing with the Ukrainian woman that got stabbed in a bus in the US. She had a BLM sticker or something.
>>2833502Bro is literally crying about racism as he's being racist 😛
>>2833496I am vaguely involved in this. There has been a massive regroupment in the Kurdish Community since the attacks on Rojava starting last year. The Kurds in Scotland are quite well organised and coordinated in part because they have strong links not just with trade unionists (who themselves are more present north of the border) but also with the Scotnat movement.
Worth saying the British State is trying to criminalise the kurdish socialists (funny that, fine letting Persian monarchists form paramilitaries tho) and 3/6 of the accused have been acquitted and they are launching a spurious retrial of the other 3.
Do you ever get the sense we are far more parochial than the americans?
Like, for me i really like living in my city where i have a lot of friends but also have some connections to my local community at even a passing level, like, i can go into any of the shops near me and have a first-name basis conversation with who works there, or people in the local high street.
Americans, in my experience through friends and general observation, by contrast like to be very International or at least if not international then they'd rather their lives be less interpersonal, for example they like to live in depersonalized suburbs that intentionally lack characters (regulations about painting, gardens etc), when you look online they tend to express a distaste for having to talk to people when going about errands or at work.
Not sure if this thought is fully formed, but i feel we are fundamentally different in this way.
>>2833535>I am vaguely involved in this. There has been a massive regroupment in the Kurdish Community since the attacks on Rojava starting last year. The Kurds in Scotland are quite well organised and coordinated in part because they have strong links not just with trade unionists (who themselves are more present north of the border) but also with the Scotnat movement. That's good to hear, keep us updated, anon.
Have noticed in general both big push from the usual freedom movement suspects for (re)formation of Communes and more broadly Kurdish Unity is big on the agenda for many, but i'm still not sure how that works out in practice with wildly different interests wrt the various Kurdish parties internationally.
>>2833535>Worth saying the British State is trying to criminalise the kurdish socialists (funny that, fine letting Persian monarchists form paramilitaries tho) and 3/6 of the accused have been acquitted and they are launching a spurious retrial of the other 3.Is this the Community Centre trial in london, or another?
Kind of criminal that no UK media was touching it.
>>2833719>That's good to hear, keep us updated, anon. I am trying to hear from scottish comrades about any further info, I am based in the North of England so work with a different community centre (KCC NW).
> Have noticed in general both big push from the usual freedom movement suspects for (re)formation of Communes and more broadly Kurdish Unity is big on the agenda for many, but i'm still not sure how that works out in practice with wildly different interests wrt the various Kurdish parties internationally.Things are all over the place. The unity shown in the face of the attacks on Rojava is unprecedented for the kurdish movement, havalan I spoke to said they didn't even see it with Kobane in 2014 (KDP sorts marching with PJAK flags for example). Things have kinda derailed a bit as the Iran war has caused a fissure between anti-zionist, marxist, apoist, and general left types against KDP types with the militant Iranian Kurds from Rojhelat in a weird third position. Nobody is openly like "critical support to the Islamic Republic" but the KDP types' zionism and americanism is coming back to the fore. Funnily enough, the insanity of the Pahalvists has meant the diffusion of unity has not been as bad because those psychos see a kurdish flag and do a hatecrime. Also worth saying that sectarian attacks against the kurdish community by Arab Jolani supporters (usually 1st migrant arab youth) have done damage to community relations and promote zionism. There is a weird position where every political faction is stronger than it was before. The KDP types have come out of the woodwork, the Apoists have been able to organise demos under apolitical headlines that have got people to the fore, and the kurdish-turkish marxists are on manures (a lot of them have joined the Green Party and got elected in London, I did not say this you did not read this).
>Is this the Community Centre trial in london, or another? Kind of criminal that no UK media was touching it.Yeah the NADEK case. I saw some BBC reporting on it initially but its such a bullshit prosecution its very obvious the turks just directly asked for it. The Apoists dance on a thin line around legality (but 90% of the time stay on the right side of the letter of the law: you never see a PKK flag on a demo organised by Apoists, they usually front PJAK instead), and like imagine if you had an org in the 80s that said it did not support the IRA but had massive flags of Gerry Adams' and Martin McGuiness' face on it. But yeah, it was a bullshit prosecution and I read some of the testimony the Crown Brought, and you basically have to be a turkish nationalist to understand and believe it. Still the UK gov is bought off by Erdogan and Jolani (as long as they dont harm Israel) so we can expect more of this going forward.
>>2833737Sultana has been effectively out of YP since the CEC elections a few months ago. The leadership rigged it to get the result they wanted. It's a dead party anyway, nothing lost.
I'm skeptical that this socialist federation will achieve anything, I was invited to the 'founding cabal' of it but decided to leave because I was so fed up of everything YP related, and I didn't really like how the people in charge were behaving.
>>2833717Yes. I would say it's in part because of selection effects: everyone willing to abandon their existing community and generally dismal standard of life to gamble on something better left to America, Canada, Australia or New Zealand. (The latter 3 are less nuts than yanks, but still live in sprawling suburbs.) That means the people left in Britain are mostly those who're more rooted in one place, more conservative (personally, not politically, i.e. less risk taking), and more depressive/resigned to their lot if it's a bad one. Yanks on the other hand are both more free-moving (internal migration in the US is a big thing!), more risk taking (sometimes to the point of insanity), and more optimistic/aspirational. Commonwealth migrants are somewhere in the middle. (And in Australia's case, with the randomisation factor of not all of them being shipped there willingly.)
I'd even be controversial and say that it's rare a way in which our lib-left are more yankified than the right and which partially explains why political alignment is so polarised by education: going to uni generally means leaving your rural/semi-rural/non-major town and going to one of the cities, which in turn has you cultivating a social circle based more on shared interests and personal choice compared to being rooted in a specific area where you know everyone, even the dickheads, because they're from the area. (Some selection effects apply even at this low level: if you don't want to leave your town, you're not going to leave for uni!) Moreover, it has you thinking of your in-group based on those shared interests/hobbies/whatever, which makes other factors like race, nationality, even gender to some extent, much less important. An outsider is someone with different tastes and preferences rather than someone from a different place or with different traits.
Personally I'm sympathetic to this element of yankification. Most of my friends are either foreigners, or from other nations of the UK
Which I really do consider half-foreign, certainly about as foreign as Ireland and I never really fit in to my home town or cared for everyone knowing everyone's business. I'm glad it works for some, but even the Amish give people a choice on which way they'd like to live.
(If we're fair to my hometown: I'm the type to post on imageboards about "selection effects" at 10 in the morning, so they weren't exactly wrong to think I'm some kind of boring gay weirdo.)
>>2833737Socialist Federation is a much better name but they're probably doomed. The Greens really ate their lunch.
>>2833717>Do you ever get the sense we are far more parochial than the americans?America is socially made up of the people who were anti-social, anti-collective, or generally just hated where they were from so much they pissed off around half the world. That does engender a culture of fucking hating everyone around you.
>>2833964 (me)
So the guy pictured I saw on a Stacey Dooley doc and he is a gay guy who is a millionaire off the back of surrogacy for gay men and he owns an Essex football club and shit. I just remember his house being really fucking ugly. Anyways turns out he and his partner were arrested for trafficking gay men.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g09pdx82go >>2833965I thought surrogacy was illegal?
>>2834061Im confused. Why are they running into the sea?
>>2834103During DDay, the British army just walked under water to get to normandy !
>>2833741>thee Apoists dance on a thin line around legality (but 90% of the time stay on the right side of the letter of the law: you never see a PKK flag on a demo organised by Apoists, they usually front PJAK instead), and like imagine if you had an org in the 80s that said it did not support the IRA but had massive flags of Gerry Adams' and Martin McGuiness' face on it.It still makes me laugh, back around the seige of Kobane and everything the dance of YPG flags and so on but also performing this 'PKK? never met her. You must be confused, this is something else entirely.' kind of thing with Apo flags in tow.
Totally transparent yet feels so sincere by its exponents whilst also fully enraging a certain type of politics obsessive.
Really great stuff.
>>2834236I cant bring myself to watch a full 9 seconds of these freaks nor read whatever you have written about them, sorry. Try /ISG/, I hear those guys have a stronger constitutions.
The right constantly attacking Blairism is the biggest pseudointellectual cope to never frame Tories as the political enemy. All the woke stuff concerning protected characteristics in EA2010 was passed under Cameron. The Public Order Act 1986 was passed under Thatcher. The Online Safety Act 2023 was passed under Sunak. The Sentencing Act 2020 was passed under Johnson. These are all the woke laws which put you away for hate speech, yet it is apparently Blair to blame, who in the HRA1998 secures our right of free speech.
>>2834061>couldn't even aigen a british beach landingthe absolute state
>>2834236I’ll never understand burgers’ fascination with British/Eton-accented British intelligentsia when this is the best the British right can produce: A bunch of Anglo middle class podcasters LARPing as the Norman nobility when they can’t even define what is a “British” in the first place beyond slogans, vibes and memes.
Methinks that Musk’s X’itter algorithm twitching and other top-down measures combined with the Pole in question having an English name is why we have to go through moral grandstanding by the gammon orcs.
In fact, I bet my ass that Nowak’s case would have never caught on had his name been a less English-sounding one like “Zbigniew” or “Przemysław”. Because I remember when the reaction of Irish chuds to that case where an Algerian immigrant stopped a stabbing spree of a Romanian immigrant boiled down to:
>Eh, they’re all immigrants. Send them backSo yh, I don’t think that the possibility of this culture war crap being a psyop can be dismissed.
Also, to point at gammons’ hypocrisy, let us not forget how for all their talk about white lives mattering they’ll never riot in the names of white British boys being killed by their peers of the same race, like in the case of this poor lad:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx21dk1vy12oInb4 “Nowak’s case was different because of the cops”:
The average chud is incapable of making a distinction between state and interpersonal violence, as seen by how many of them on X’itter used the murder of Iryna Zarutska by a civilian black excon as a gotcha against leftists who rallied against ICE’s murder of Renee Good back when the latter’s case received media attention.
ITV news airing a big anti-Cuba hit piece rn, preparing the way for the public accepting a US invasion I suppose
https://www.declassifieduk.org/no-convictions-in-kurdish-terror-trial-at-old-bailey/>Notably, prosecutors argued that even if defendants did not know or believe themselves to be part of the PKK, and were not seen as PKK members by the organisation itself, these actions in support of the PKK showed “shared aims” with the Kurdish political movement and thus constituted de facto membership of the banned organisation. Mate. That isn't cricket at all.
>>2834213The apoists have a level of revolutionary discipline that we could learn a lot from.
It's even funnier when you consider a lot of them use PJAK flags instead for the same purpose as a PKK flag, but in other countries PJAK is banned so they just use something else.
Obviously if you work for CPS there are no kurds in britain that support the PKK especially not the ones who carry Apo and PJAK flags also kill yourself.
Yank here, Britbros what the fuck is happening to your country. It looks like you guys are having real race riots and gearing up for civil war compared to the states where it is just talk as of now. What are the conditions like and what is the future? Remigration,Revolution out of this?
>>2835350Could this kind of one-sided rioting happen for long in the US? I feel like the UK is going through this because it has a much more underdefined view of race and racism and people en masse aren't willing to stick their necks out to stop it (yet). There's no prompt or organized countermovement aside from migrants barricading themselves in their homes whenever a stabbing happens.
saw a pro-trans scottish unionist (rare!) complaining about independence supporters undermining support for the rule of law by pushing for a second referendum and it's been bothering me ever since. like i get as a unionist you'll ignore 99% of the problems with this country, but surely when half your posts are banging on about the supreme court ruling you'd realise that britain doesn't have "rule of law" in any meaningful sense. rule of Lawyers, maybe.
>>2835350There will not be a civil war in Britain, not now, not ever. If they do, no one will have the money, electricity, or time to consume Murdoch media
>>2835753
Not gonna happen mate. Easier just to leave or an hero.
>>2835753>>2835759>>2835766These things are happening you just don't know about them. They aren't active in like Skegness but there are sorts. I just worry there isn't a broad base for it.
>"communist" party calling for a vote for Burnham
hahaha oh my days
>>2835800
No this is just oikophobic british exceptionalism. "Raiiny fascist island" et al. People like this have never been to a European country where fascism is actually popular.
>>2835802The fact is there is no communist party in the UK.
The CPB is a small group of sad social reactionary boomers obsessed with being anti-trans, promoting the Labour party, with a social democratic economic program.
The CPGB-ML are a cult with party mandated haircuts and dress codes that is borderline NazBolite / Duginite and once locked a member in an interrogation room for a day for posting "it's okay to be gay" on Twitter.
There's 1000 Trotskyite factions, most notably the RCP, all of which are just student groups that sell about 10 newspapers a week and put up stickers on major city centres.
Not to add the only "communist" group to stand in the last local elections were a ultra-Zionist Trotskyite group that ran primarily on a platform of "standing up for Israel" and for a lot of people a leaflet from them to that effect will be their sole interaction with any "communists".
And Marx forbid you aren't a ML or a Trot because then you have affectively zero organisations even claiming to represent you.
Something needs to happen but nothing will. Look at the disaster that was YP. We're fucked.
>>2835850
>Anti immigration slop that has been building since WW2 (and in its modern form since Blair at the latest) could've been stopped by the left not being pro trans decades later
Absolute brainworms. Kill yourself.
Nazis on the streets, in parliament, psychotic individuals obsessed with fantasies about child sex abuse and protecting it onto LGBT people even in this fucking thread on a leftist website
It's all too tiring, I think I might just fuck off to some distant land where nothing matters and I can forget the world exists
>>2835863You don't even have to go that far, just run off to one of the first world commonwealth countries. Do it on a work visa and marry if you have to, but flee.
>>2835862Leftists occupyfags that really really REALLY love brown folx but HATES transgenders will never self reflect on anything sadly i tried to reason them many times even on this site and it fail. Not only do they just have an axe to grind but they can't actually realise what made the whole millenial socialism project fail and it wasnt trans idpol.
>its the beautiful lady😍🥰 fault we burnt all our political capital on manspreading, metoo and anti young white male agitprop bro…They completely seriously believes this. These uyghas were shilling Brown Radical Feminist Woman With White Boyfriend Ranting About Shit Nophono Care Abak #149 from 2011 to 2021 and think it's trans activists that made them unpopular even though they were always associated with corporate liberals and not the far-left anyway, lunatics.
lmfao that wordfilter
>>2835960
>Dude we get it, you're trans
I am pro trans but i am not trans.
>No need for this idpol infighting over who is the biggest victim, especially when neither beautiful lady😍🥰s nor uyghas will survive the coming fascist takeover.
They're not actually gonna do TND (because they never do), brown people are safe long term for obvious demographic/economic reasons. The far-right will move on into Mileism to loot the copper wires and create a pseudo-racial cast system à la LATAM where being wealthy correlates with whiteness and being poor correlates to browness. Playing victim olympics isnt at all what my posts are about, i am just re-establishing the truth.
>"protect trans kids" or "Kill all TERFs" anime memes, as if that would ever win over the public.
The first one just true as transphobes actually wants to murder them for commitiing heresy and are encouraged by the mainstream english medias into doing so if that is bad optic it doesnt matter. The other one is equivalent to any gender critical basket case posting except they don't actually kill terfs because they are pussies at the exception of Tyler Robinson (sws).
>Not sure where do you get the "transphobe anti-racist" stuff since TERFs like Posie Parker and Anna Slatz are all liberal garden variety of racist
I don't know who Posie Parker is but the other one was being shilled by every other class first leftists under the sun until very recently, she is also brown as she is some kind of turkish sepharadi abstraction and was a self identified communist up until 2024. I don't keep a list of those people but they were too many to count, even the ACPsphere correspond to the super anti-trans super anti-racist thought. Nothing in common with Joe Biden or establishment liberals which have been quite solid on the issue.
You sound like an hysteric and as always with people trying to deflect from what actually lead to 2010 leftism failures you avoid the elephant in the room to deflect to "trans activism" (transgenders posting on twitter).
The Anti-Trans Leftist live in a reality where corporate liberals Gavin Newsom and Joseph Robinette Biden saying "Protect Trans Kids, no malarkey" was more damaging to the left than 10 years of cluster-B brown people being given the stage in every university and streaming services to say "fuck white people and fuck males!" slam poetry while living in a 85% white 50% male country.
Even if i were transphobic i would laugh at how insane the reasoning is.
we're doomed
certain people would rather bash trans people or loud brown women than do literally anything about the fact fascists are burning down black people's houses and on course to win the next election
>>2836004I know some of my posts can seem provocative or crude but i am not even a brownbasher or pro-remigration, i am not even an enti-feminist. I think Mamdani is a great politician for example and am pleasantly surprised seeing a brown diasporic guy bein an ACTUAL LEFTIST and not some insane ethnic grievance machine.
I just can't let people do their "harsh truth" cope routine to defame an unrelated group (here transgenders) as the reason for things being bad for the left while ignoring the elephant in the room.
>>2836028Do we know if there's any dead?
they are water cannoning them in belfast now
>>2836074Keir doesnt hold back.
>>2836077
>mainstream media create a fake culture war
>this proves it's not marginal nonsense pushed by cranks
Up next: why didn't Jeremy Corbyn just stop being antisemitic?
watch it live. the chuds are beginning to storm the land rovers while chucking volleys of rocks at the cops
>>2836091
>and there were ensuing legal battles over it.
Legal battles that treated us to sophistry like judges citing the definition of sex in the Sex Discrimination Act 1972 (which the EA2010 repealed and the GRA2004 explicitly identified as legislation the GRA2004 overrode to include trans women as women for its purposes.) to argue that trans women weren't women under the EA2010 and the GRA2004 just magically didn't apply. (In the process, trampling all over parliamentary sovereignty.)
Or are supreme court judges grassroots too?
loyalists need to be culled more than any immigrant does
>>2836177
>>2836160
That you?
>>2836176
Nope, but I’m sure Faceberg, 4cuck and X’itter would be better fits for you considering how botted up those places are, and the average gammon sure loves AI and bots like a good goyslave.
>>2836189
Ok 4cuck
>>2836196
Eh, don’t sing victory too quick. The war isn’t over yet.
>>2836196
Cope. You’ll just end up burning Britain to the ground and be left with nothing but ashes and starve to death. You’ll still lose no matter what.
>>2836206
Who the fuck are you? Which echo chamber do you come from?
>>2836204
No such thing as a Brit. “British identity” is only a thing in London, the rest are either Ulster Scot wignats or deracinated bland white nationalists buggered by globalism.
chantards should be dragged away from their computers screaming in agony so the world can laugh at them
Why does any UKnik deserve socialism after you spent the last 800 years raping the earth?
A modest proposal: The left should try to break off the smarter part of the right by promising that under socialism they can be Beria and, crucially, we will morally valorise them for it, so long as they use their innate sadism exclusively on stupid reactionary lumpen instead of on ethnic and sexual minorities. Then they can have their cake and eat it. No more cancel culture, no more woke mob, "no bad tactics, only bad targets"…
>>2836738I mean when Things Happen there wont be much time for moralfagging anyway
Who would win between Burhnam and Keir in a MMA fight?
>>2836845Honestly who are these "christian nationalist" fascist types even appealing to? Just 20 year old online fascists? Nobody goes to fucking church.
>>2836889you'd be surprised how effective they are at galvanizing the lumpen and how shit leftists are in justifying themselves to normal people
i seriously think it's going to take a world war level event to get things towards a leftist keel at this point, but i'm desperately hoping i'm wrong
Hot take: Relying on unscrupulous and two-faced American big tech cartels for the world’s telecommunications was a mistake, considering how all of big tech is united behind Trump.
>>2836912Tbh, the left nowadays doesn’t have the support of the world’s oligarchs nor all social media platforms, who will twitch their algorithm to boost chuds even if you’re a leftist that consumes leftist political content.
It doesn’t excuse inaction, but it certainly explains the lack of leftist response. That, and the fact that the British left seems to be too scared to arm itself or form street crawling clubs, or for that matter to properly organise a broad base of support whether it’s by helping liberals to Bolshevise or cajoling the lumpen into supporting labor movements.
They don’t make Antifa like they used to. Sadly no.
>>2836972you are right that a lot of it is out of the left's control, but i feel some of the right's success in the 10's comes from being the cool bad boys that transgressed from liberal norms. i think the left needs to capture that in a way with a full-out offence on the worst of the right and capitalism by telling a good story, rather than droning on and on about "marx said this, lenin said that". you can use marx and lenin to help inform decisions, but there needs to be a willing to do something new, even appropriate some of the techniques the right has used to success against them.
>>2836889>Honestly who are these "christian nationalist" fascist types even appealing to? Just 20 year old online fascists? Nobody goes to fucking church.My Guess is Narcotics/Alcoholics Anonymous types.
>>2836993Legitimate TRVKE there is a huge overlap of these in Manchester.
>>2837014
>this left will be the X'itter brand as pushed by MAGAcommunists
They completely cratterred ever since Trump got elected and they lost their use. Leftists that do number are standard socially progressive people like juniper and most accounts the leftypol xitter rt.
ACP's main interest point of interest was it's radical anti-moralfag line and their ability to say ZOG, which have now been universalized among the non-bluesky left so they lost their appeal. Pikerism is more serious but it still sabotage itself with idiotic "death to amerikkka"-tier bullshit despite living in amerikkka.
>>2837029Nah, 99% of non-ACP adjacent left is still pro-immigration and that fact alone will continue to make the left irrelevant forever.
>>2837770The problem with "immigration" is that it's purely vibe based, it's like "crime". Current labour regime have reduced immigration more than anyone for half a century and they still get derided as the party that want to great replace your hometown and your fish n chips.
But once again the left stopped being moralfag rapidly so there is no point for infrared anymore.
>>2837782Bold of you to say it's because of labour and not because of the shit economy and no jobs
>>2837786Labour is literally reversing immigration to 2012 levels
Have you not been keeping up?
>>2837789Yeah because nobody wants to come here anymore, is what I meant
>>2837794100,000 illegal small boats show up every year to come into Britain
the demand is constant
>>2837817
You also have to stop importing literally everything else too, autarky doesn’t work
If the Labour were actually #lions they would #TradeGammonsForMigrants which would solve every single political and economic problems.
It would also make english people below 45 more white because most of those immigrants will be eastern european just like before brexit.
Someone pitch this to Keir i've got an idea.
>>2837817
you don't have to be "anti-immigrant" anyways
>>2837817imbecile post by a dumb retard.
- a chunk of liberals attack immigration! and much nastier people than liberals!
- "the capitalist class" also bankroll those opposed to immigration. dumb-dumb boy looks at a punch and judy show and goes "haha, you're backing judy? don't you know they're a puppet?"
- immigrants bring themselves in. is it really capitalism that drives britons to flee this shithole to canada/australia/nz/america whenever they have the chance?
- immigrants are part of the working class. "workers of the world unite - but stay the fuck away"?
- working class voters are fairly evenly split between pro and anti immigration parties unless you go by meme measurements of british social class.
- your daily reminder that external border controls did not exist in this country until 1905, but that we once had internal border controls. by what principle do we say that a man may move from newcastle to edinburgh and "take the jobs" of the people there, but that the moment someone moves from paris to london it's a travesty?
politics is in fact a personality test. if someone is strongly anti-immigration it is almost invariably because they are some kind of cunt. "the left needs to appeal more to cunts who want other people to suffer"? nah mate i'm alright.
>>2837770While it is "vibes" based in the current numbers sense, it's not "vibes" based in how people have seen what a fucking clusterfuck disaster mass immigration from thirdie countries has been. Hostile ingroup cultures, collapse of civicism, skyrocketing antisocial behaviour, mass organized rape gangs, stores being looted to the point stores now have items behind plastic locked shelves, UKpolitics being dominated by conflicts and crybully idpol between various ingroups, the litter situation alone. Like I've pointed out here numerous times, live near park, if that park is mostly just white natives, perfectly clean, certain demographics turn up, literally becomes a garbage tip within half an hour, same with every are of the city where certain minority groups hang out.
The problem is that multiculturalism's failure has been an ongoing slow moving trainwreck since the mid 2000s, and the left spends the entire time still whitewashing it. I mean, the Green's literally have open borders policies while at the same time policies to limit house building to 140k lmao.
>>2837844Marx and Engels were against Immigration lmao. it's Inter-NATIONALISM, not Cosmopolitanism. Mass Migration has, and always will be a capitalist plot to drive down wages, and create a strategy of tension between poles.
It's just objective fact, that most thirdie ingroups. We know as fact the more "diverse" a workforce, the less they will Unionize or show solidarity, because various cultural ingroups simply aren't interested.
>>2837844Only alienated workers believe the discourse about immigration is important, that shit gets thrown of the window when they stop listening to billionaire media, joining any bourgeois social narrative is loosing because they own the terrain. People obsessed with immigrations are not only cunts but fools being set up. Not to mention bad faith hyprocrites who pretend the priority is to organize and unite the working class while spending most of their time throwing oil on a "divide and conquer" idpol fire
>>2837853>that shit gets thrown of the window when they stop listening to billionaire mediaIt's worse than that: it get thrown out the window when their right-wing party/candidate win then they stop pretending the issue even exist a year after when immigration havent stopped or increased.
We are litteraly seeing this happen with Trump and we have seen it happen with Orban, Meloni and the Polish right.
Uk was captured by nazis
>>2837849Marx and Engels also thought we'd have a revolution in England before we'd have one in Russia. If you're not willing to say Marx and Engels got something wrong, you're more of a theologian than a Marxist.
Ethnic diversity has almost nothing to do with collapsing union density in the UK, where unions were kneecapped before modern mass immigration. It is a factor in America, but if that's your bogeyman then we really must ask again: should we stop southern blacks moving around, since their presence will upset union drives elsewhere? why have national immigration controls but not internal ones? you might well say "ah, because muh nationalism" - but the US is a gaggle of mutts, not a nation. Their states are also very powerful relative to the federal government, so why should California or Texas not be able to say it is
full?
No industry anywhere in the world survives without importing either raw material or other finished inputs, not even the DPRK, protecrionism and autarky are A MYTH, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR SKULL
Noticed Novara Media are now selling football shirts, with the three arrows symbol where the brand logo would normally sit.
The Three Arrows being a symbol created by the Social Democratic party of Germany - the people who paid the proto-Nazi Freikorps to kill Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht.
It represents the defence of liberal democracy against monarchy, fascism, and… communism!
Imagine LARPing as a leftist and then selling a symbol that says "I am a social democrat and I hate communism!"
>>2837888
Sorry but I don't follow this, why suddenly for the past couple months does it seem all MLs have been triggered by the terms "leftism" or "leftist"?
This is explicitly labelled as a leftist website on the homepage.
As someone who apparently adheres to this position can you explain it?
Is it something about being anti-Anarchist or anti-DemSoc?
Also Social Democracy and Liberalism aren't leftist, which is what the symbol represents.
>>2837880glowvara can do one, but it's the logo of the company that makes the shirts. they also do Clapton CFC's away shirt.
tbh i've also always found anti-three-arrows whining tedious. "oh, originally it was an anti-communist symbol too! anyone using it as an anti-fascist one is secretly endorsing the SPD!" stupid, stupid, stupid.
if we follow this idea that symbols have inherent vs contextual meanings then we wind up in the absurd place where the three arrows are tainted from birth even if clearly used in an anti-fascist context, but half the nazi swastikas get a pass because the Buddhist origins of the symbol are pure and fascists are usually too thick to remember which way around they put theirs.
novara could've put a hammer and sickle on their shirt and it'd still be a dumb LARP from a dumb group. that they're novara tells you far more than any little symbol.
>>2837899Lenin's life's work collapsed in 1991 and desperate appeals to his authority should always be read in that light.
Guys, I think I found the solution to Starmer’s problems: He cucked to the TERFs.
Think about it: Spain’s leader and his PSOE didn’t cuck on trans rights nor LGBTQ+ rights, in face they’re the ones who have advanced said rights more than anybody else, to the point of allowing 16 yo to self-ID by their preferred gender without needing medical and parental approval.
And guess what? Despite still being unpopular, the PSOE remains the most popular party in Spain on the top of Pedro being able to potentially winning the next elections if they were held tomorrow. Although there were proposals to ban transwomen from women’s sports and eliminating the Q+ from the LGBTQ+ government legislatures, as of today none came of it, not even a bill to that effect has been drafted. Oh, and the PSOE didn’t cuck to racists either, so there’s that.
Pedro is also one of the few PMs to have seen a rise in popularity:
https://www.eunews.it/en/2026/04/13/polling-europe-euroscope-approval-ratings-for-eu-leaders-plummet-with-the-exception-of-sanchez/The only other I can think of is the present Danish PM, and even then that is because of her riding off from the opposition to Trump’s proposals to annex Greenland.
What’s the lesson? If you don’t bless trans people, you me country won’t be blessed.
>>2837912Meant “cause” as opposed to “solution”. My bad, tee hee
>>2837896because leninists have a medical prerequisite that they must all be raging autists, no exceptions.
>>2837912I agree and made the same point in earlier threads but this part of larger isuue with Keir: That he have no well rounded worldview and he is incredibly easy to influence.
Guy was shooting trans rights at pride a few years ago and Labour still made some phony HAPPY PRIDE MONTH post with the new uglier gay flag on June 1st. He constantly flip flops from "cool multicultural brittania" to "island of stranger".
>>2837817
I don't even care that much if we were a bit anti immigration in a sensible way but should we just do nothing while neonazis are trying to lynch non white people? Sure we should do better at getting our point across but it's far more incoherent to be a socialist nativist than a socialist that defends workers just looking for a better chance for them and their family.
>>2837912For every year that we don't have a functional trans healthcare system, God will sink one of our battleships
>>2837922Yep. Starmer is a cowardly fox with no balls. Basically, a eunuch for the same bourgeoisie that bankrolls his (controlled) opposition like Reform.
Andy Burnham has some potential in reviving the Labour Party if hypothetical polls are to be believed:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/bombshell-new-poll-shows-dramatic-labour-shift-if-andy-burnham-replaces-starmer-406354/But the thing is…
- That popularity is due to him riding off from his positive reputation as mayor of Manchester, a position he held since 2017
- He still isn’t doesn’t have approval ratings above 50% outside of his party
- He is basically Keir Starmer but in champagne socialist dressing given that he reneged on his previous stances on immigration and trans rights, being more on the right. And I doubt his economics plans will do much for Britain which is already in horrible conditions. Also, I doubt he’ll do much about the growing threat of right-wing paramilitaries and potential weapons trafficking considering how many fascist and right-wing paramilitaries in the UK trace back to militant loyalists from NI and American reactionary paramilitaries that are likely led by glowies to some extent.
Whether or not Andy can become more popular by exiting Labour is another question tho, but I don’t think he has the time and resources necessary to create a new party out of thin air.
But I do agree with others who say that politics is vibes-based and a personality battle since Starmer is so unpopular that whatever he does won’t save him from being Britain’s most unpopular leader to date, worse than Lizz Truss.
>>2837899
Okay, so MLs are just retarded and conflate leftism - as a general term for the broad scope of the radical left - with Left Communism specifically.
>>2837936It amazes me how many libs/centrists are like "nooooo! It's not fair to dislike Starmer just because he's horribly uncharismatic and off-putting, he has all these great policy successes!". Number one, the country is still going to shit, and number two, why the fuck is he prime minister then if he's uncharismatic and bad at appearing in public? That's literally the main part of his job
>>2837912this might surprise you, but not everything is about transgenderism
>>2837937you will get nowhere arguing with a leninist, they are always right and you are always wrong. they've mastered the art of screaming at people whilst everyone else looks on bemused
they can actually make good points sometimes, but good lord, are they the most insufferable cluster b's to be around
>>2837928You’re right. I mean, we aren’t talking about peaceful protesters here, here are talking about straight up hooligans and rioters trying to lynch working class people for the colour of their skin. That’s simply unjustifiable no matter how you look at it, especially as many of said rioters are themselves excons:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/06/southampton-riot-longest-sentence-for-man-exposed-by-right-wing-auditor/And mind you, said excons have criminal charges ranging from drug dealing to aggravated assault and robbery. Whatever we’re dealing with, they’re certainly not normies.
In this sense, it isn’t the left being pro-“open borders” as much as being against said acts of senseless vandalism and racist violence, which leads to said leftists being unwilling to touch on immigration since anti-immigrationism is then associated with said thugs.
With that said, although I do commend JimmyTheGiant and Gary Stevenson for engaging with right wing arguments by using economics and citing global wealth inequality as the driving force behind the rise in living costs as seen by how the same phenomenon is observed in capitalist countries with low immigration like Romania’s Bucharest and Japan’s Tokyo.
There’s also the problem with nativist socialists besides having a “noble savage”-type lens of the white British lumpen, namely their ignorance of reactionary trends within the bourgeoisie. A key example would be this narrative of Brexit being a populist battle between the “common people” and “Eurocrat elites”, when in reality the bourgeoisie was also behind Brexit. Read “The Great Brexit Swindle”, which documents how the financial elites have engineered Brexit with the goal of getting rid of the restrictions imposed by EU law on the financial sector such as those on taxes.
Not saying that rejoining the EU will be a panacea since obviously the European Commission will likely impose more pressure on-requisites for EU membership should the UK return involving giving up some concessions previously given to Britain, for example adopting the Euro which will mean giving control of the British economy to Brussels, effectively giving up financial sovereignty.
With that said, the left should have a clearer stance on immigration, otherwise it’ll be a repeat of the Brexit referendum but worst. Remember, Corbyn’s loss wasn’t due to the anti-semitism media spectacle, but due to his indecisive stance on Brexit.
And that comes from someone who voted Remain because I knew Brexit would be a disaster for Britain. Any talk of “not applying full Brexit” by the gammon orcs are just cope based on goalpost-shifting and no-true-Scotsman fallacy.
>>2837940Just saying, Starmer sucks, duh. But not all of Britain’s problems are caused by Starmer. I know you’ll say that Brexit is a cope, but it can’t be denied that it would have inevitably led to a disaster regardless of how many trade deals the PM did with commonwealth countries, on the top of Britain being colonised by the USA.
With that said, ironically, having an unpopular leader is a hallmark of all liberal democratic countries. In fact, that’s the case outside of irrelevant statelets like Iceland or more dictatorial regimes like Singapore’s and India’s.
>>2837949You’d be surprised at how much of British politics in the backdoor revolves around transgenderism. Case in point, the TERF’s stranglehold on the British left, a consequence of seniority more than anything else tho.
>>2837955Funnily enough the fact that these vermin are still on the streets is the ultimate proof of the country being soft on crime, dysfunctional, and whatever they go on about.
>>2837959terf strangehold on the british centre, maybe. they're mainly being propped up by the right in an alliance of convenience sort of thing. the right have deep pockets and excellent networking to simplify arguments, whilst the left gets stuck on walls of texts about what a true marxist is. it feels like paralysis by analysis at times, and whilst analysis is good, it shouldn't come at the expense of a united front where we could and should really push against the ugliness of the right in the current moment.
>>2837955im in two minds about it, on the one hand, yes, anyone who wants completely unfiltered immigration is a fucking moron. on the other, there's a clear derangement syndrome from the right about how bad the problem really is, and it absolutely feels like the beeb lately (since the new director took over) is really leaning into that. immigration should be like issue 4 or 5, not the #1 thing and requiring the most primal of babyrage to it that the right never fails to deliver on.
i'd say make it clear we don't want unlmited migration (political suicide at this point and stupid to begin with), but also play down and strip away the baby rage of the right on the issue. every migrant crime they focus on, bring up the brutal crimes committed by native brits, to which they have no clapback about. ridicule their idea of abstract, childlike, romanticised national identitarians. when you listen to the arguments of substance people like the lotuseaters make, you realise how paper-thin they really are.
>>2837971these rightoids are nothing more than pathetic rorschachs with delusions of power that when they show their true colours will be despised by even normies. expose them as much as possible and make people mad about them, instead of mad about random immigrants who want to settle down for a new, peaceful life
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/11/skht-j11.htmlhttps://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/10/ijay-j10.htmlWSWS takes a deep dive in the recent riots in Belfast. Apparently the PSNI is potentially implicated. Not that it matters as Westminster loves the loyalists as a way to keep Irish republicans at bay and to keep its British fascists alive, since the government needs them to both mobilise for jingoistic and imperialistic war campaigns and to suppress labor strikes. First it’s groups whose oppression doesn’t lead to mass protests, such as MAPs and immigrants. But much like the Italian blackshirts, it won’t be long before said rioters begin to attack anybody deemed “leftie”, ranging from labour unions to Irish republicans.
Also, a black man in Ireland has been killed by security guards in Dublin in a manner reminiscent of what occurred to George Floyd:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/09/vjhj-j09.htmlOh, and 5 days from now a sham “debate” featuring Tommy 10 names will be held by an opportunistic Palestinian female Oxford student. The “debate” in question will involve that slovenly Israeli agent, Zionist Jew Jonathan Sacerdoti, and failed-actor-turned-RW-grifter Laurence Fox. The opposition? Two random Muslims with no history of being debaters and Jacob fucking Rees Mogg. The topic will be: “Is Islam a threat to western civilization(TM)?”
This is obviously a sham and a publicity stunt for both Yaxley and the organiser in question. Hopefully it gets sabotaged.
>>2837964Yep. The left is good with theory, but bad at praxis. Couple that with a lack of a patronage network, and the hurdle is bigger than what many would like to admit.
OTOH, if we are to be serious about winning back the remaining non-lumpenised white British working-class, I think we should probably be building a left-wing deradicalisation guide aimed at those trying to deradicalise their family members and acquaintances (particularly young people) who have fallen into the reactionary black hole of agitprop.
Otherwise, just accept that these lumpens will be a permanent fixture in British society and just focus on organising a broader left-wing coalition that may or may not include London liberals and antifa. Speaking of the latter, what happened to them lately? Ever since that face off with Britain First thugs in Manchester last year, I barely hear a word about them. Even in their official website, the last post is from two years ago.
>>2837949Not everything is about transgenderism but transgenderism correlates with everything because people mostly get their politics from their dispositions
There is literally no reason not to have open borders with aus/NZ/Canada, unilaterally (e.g. they can come here but we need visas to go there) if necessary.
It's basically risk free (culturally, linguistically and ethnically similar) while removing barriers to desirable people moving here.
>>2838069CANZUK not being a thing is symbolic of British politics lack of will or vision.
>>2837982> fucking Rees MoggScreaming
>>2837982>Is Islam a threat to western civilizationAstonishing that such a debate is being hosted let alone with this premise
>>2838069>desirable peoplekill yourself as soon as possible please
>>2838093Reese Mog sometimes takes the right position, it's weird. I still remember him taking the position on, i think, Question Time that Shamima Begum should be repatriated, something that not only the right but the entire establishment was screaming for citizenship revocation.
A quick google said he called it a 'discriminatory policy'.
So the 4 PA members who tried to destroy Israel weapons of war that would be used to in genocide and killing children have now been sentenced as terrorists
Always remember the British state is evil and your enemy
>>2838120 (me)
Fuck me, how times have changed. Listening to him sounds like listening to the news but in the 90's.
>>2838096there is nothing wrong with recognising that some people are more desirable than others, so long as your criteria are correct. all else equal, a communist is more desirable than a fascist.
>>2838120the begum situation was retarded and was a fight the left shouldn't have picked.
>>2838334Why should we not object to the British state stripping even more rights from people? Natural born citizenship is supposed to be inviolable but the government took it away from her anyway.
>>2838337because why, in this political climate, would you try and let someone who willingly went out to support isis to come back into the country. it was a case sensationalised and artificially inflated by the media as bait for both sides as another dumb culture war argument. just a case where the right could shoot fish in a barrel and a few leftists walked right into the trap.
>>2838344If rights don't apply to people who "deserve" it, then they don't apply to anyone. Also, she was 15 when she left, by any reasonable definition she was groomed. If the government wanted to put her in prison then fine but it making her stateless is totally wrong.
>>2838344More dangerous having a lot of these people out in the world than it is in a prison or under watch in their home countries.
We obstructed all the way with this stuff and now look how it ended, with Al-Hol and Roj both emptied, let back into the world and now a large unknown, and that applies to both those interned in the camps for ISIS affiliation and the children, who have only known the camps and thus isis ideology.
And this is only the most immediate thing, the degradation of citizenship here is severely dangerous for all of us.
>>2838413>He said Corner had shown no remorse and had used “extreme and gratuitous force against a vulnerable police officer who was acting in the course of her duties”.
>Reading her witness statement, Evans, occasionally crying, said: “The overall impact of this incident has been profound and long-lasting,” she told the court. “It has affected my physical health, mental wellbeing, confidence, career and family life. I am not the same person I was before this happened, I feel my personality has changed.”
>During the trial, Corner said he panicked after being pepper sprayed and acted to protect a co-defendant he believed was being seriously hurt.Fucking filth, how the fuck can you be a 'vulnerable police officer' anyway, utter woke nonsense
>>2838417wow this is just like 1984 (famous novel about how britain sucks and is evil)
>>2837853>that shit gets thrown of the window when they stop listening to billionaire mediaNope, in fact, it was billionaire controlled media that has kept social peace for so long by suppressing bad news about troublesome minorities.
It's just that the pressure cooker is about to burst, so the billionaires are now *finally* letting out some steam, like allowing people on Xitter or reddit to speak more openly.
It's the ebil billionaires who are making everyone far right. People become far right from their organic interactions with troublesome minorities. It is in fact, liberalism and the haute bourgeosie who have for decades suppressed any kind of hatred and open discussion about these minorities. You only had some fake ass controlled opposition cuckservatives pushing against this in a feeble and dishonest manner like.
Ironically, the death of liberalism leads to the "right wing" becoming popular, because right wing ideas are organically popular.
Just THINK for a second. For 99% of human history, all human societies were "far right" by modern standards. Modern liberalsim is a very recent, historically contingent phenomenon that arose out of the need to maintain social peace by appeasing troublesome minorities and deliberately preventing the majority from fighting back.
There are no shadowy right wing billionaires orchestrating this shift to the far right. It's just human beings reverting to behavior that they had for tens of thousands of years.
>>2838515Correction >It's NOT the ebil billionaires who are making everyone far right.
The Left is beyond retarded at this point. Immigration is a complete own-goal, a totally avoidable situation. All that was needed was having some balls and being able to reject liberal framing of anti-immigration as "racism or Nazism". The Left failed at even such a simple task.
And to be perfectly honest, I don't think white Leftists even truly give a shit about this. Nobody's gonna harm them. They'll smugly watch from the sidelines and send their thoughts and prayers to the immigrants who get harmed.
>>2838069No one from those countries wants to live in a Fucking Britain, dude.
>>2838344Why, in this political climate, would you try and defend a group who just travelled to Paris to murder the German ambassador Mr. vom Rath? Surely the rule of law can take a little break while the German people express their understandable frustrations?
>>2838515>>2837853You're both half right.
It's not that billionaire media suppresses troubling stories, but it's also not that minorities are actually troublesome on the whole. It is however true that a lot of human instincts are "far right", and this is where the press used to control things: Some people are instinctively drawn to far-right slop. In the past, the worst slop fiction they could get was on Fox News in the US, the Sun and the Express here. (The Sun and the Express already regularly tipping into actual fake news by US standards tbh). If you want the sloppiest far-right slop nonsense imaginable, you were tethered to reality by the fact that Sun journalists didn't want to be too ashamed of themselves as the Spectator garden party amongst their colleagues.
Then the internet came along and now you can read the news you want to read without any real tethering to the truth. Want to imagine that all of the world's major figures were part of a transgender cabal (Thatcher was a man, FDR was a woman in men's pants)? There's an app for that. Want to imagine Trump actually won the 2020 election? A nice man in India will tell you that all day long for the right price. He's not going to be red faced at the Spectator garden party just for making it up, is he?
Twitter is billionaire media and clearly has a slant ("cis" gets you censored for posting a "slur", but you can sit using google translate to post far-right ragebait to the japanese as an English LARPer and get away with it until you comically blunder the kanji…) because even billionaires have allowed themselves to get brainwormed like this. You chase the stories your disposition is interested in: there is an unlimited supply of stories about migrant crime both real and imagined (because nowadays I can read about every migrant crime in the country, while before you'd be unlikely to read about some dickhead in Dundee if you lived in Durham unless he'd committed an
interesting crime.) but the average /leftypol/ user doesn't read them because they'd much rather read some essay about how they were right about lenin or how the Militant councils were actually some great left-wing success we should return to. Since billionaires usually have a cunty disposition, it's no surprise that cunt brainworms draw them in.
Nearly all minorities who are noticed are inherently regarded as troublesome by the right-wing mindset. Transgender people make no actual trouble (their crime rates are actually
below what you'd predict from a population share when you can measure it), yet are given no actual peace. Their crime is nothing more than to be visibly weird. The open loathing of them now goes beyond the sort of joke-status some-kind-of-faggot view of the 2000s and before, being a new phenomenon that arose from the death of liberalism as opposed to the reawakening of the old one.
I see this going two ways: either liberalism gets its act together and finds a new way to protect civilization from man's stupidest impulses, or we get barbarism. Given that most liberals aren't actually committed to liberalism (personality again, they like to feel
sensible more than anything), I'm not optimistic…
>>2838522You miss the empirical problem that the people who are strongly anti-immigrant are racists and nazis. Despite a high level of anti-immigration "background radiation" (e.g. press noise etc that would lead an uninterested observer to believe it's a big problem) it's incredibly rare for it to poll as the most important issue facing the country. It is, however, an obsession of the most reactionary voters. (And this is not a tautological definition of reactionary where we say "anti-immigration = reactionary", the most anti-LGBT voters, most pro-cops-beating-up-innocents voters, and so on, are all generally anti-immigrant.)
You also ignore all the people who currently support the left, wich is concentrated in a pretty good area (young educated people in a country where education levels are rising over time and where the "you get more conservative as you get older" trend has stopped.) There is no world in which you keep people who want a better future for everybody on a vocal platform of "throw the darkies under the bus"
important point if you ignore the whole post read this bitStrip away the actual policy and look at politics as a branded good: people who buy "fuck immigrants" brand t-shirts are clearly signalling that they're abrasive and don't like outsiders, people who buy "be nice to everyone" brand t-shirts are clearly signalling that they're nice and consider themselves tolerant. Labour t-shirts used to say "be nice" and now say "fuck immigrants" but in a red colour that all the anti-immigration people still associate with "be nice" softieism, which is why so many former "be nice" wearers have started buying "be nice to everyone". Scotland and the SNP illustrate this principle well: abrasive cunt who hates outsiders? well, you're an insider to Scotland, so a yellow "Scotland" shirt. nice and tolerant type? well, Scotland is a nice tolerant little country, so "Scotland". Just want a shirt? "Scotland".
(If you're thinking "that's silly", this is why Irn Bru is as popular as it is! It'd crash and burn tomorrow if it rebranded as an English drink.)
>>2838534There are 124,813 Australians, 81,484 Canadians, and 53,688 NZ'ers plus 231,853 yanks.
That's not a huge number, but that surely only reinforces the case for letting them come and go as they please: there isn't even a numbers problem.
>>2838515Are you seriously gonna deny that for decades 80% of the media outlets in this country have been fanatically right wing and anti immigration?
Human instinct is socialist it's just the bourgeois consciousness has distracted people, and the reason behind this is bourgeois democracy.
>>2838634Human instinct is both. It's socialist for the ingroup and murderous for the outgroup. This is why so many Reform voters are of the BNP type and like it when the government nationalises steel even though their party is full of Thatcher fetishists and she wrecked steel in the first place.
Unfortunately a fundamental part of any socialist project, indeed of any civilising project whatsoever is in part to go to war with the worse parts of "human nature" to defend the better parts, to expand the ingroup and contract the outgroup by peaceful means instead of by trying to kill everyone who isn't like us, to channel that underlying nastiness into harmless or at least relatively harmless channels.
In every squishy Green liberal you can see hope that this is possible, and in every Reform voting troglodyte you can see the possibility that WW3 will start over some damn foolish thing in the Balkans.
>>2838640Yeah if we completely remove any meaning from the word socialism then we can say this.
>>2838643If you want to get pissy about people using the word to refer to general nice pro-social communal vibes, go back in time and yell at Tony Benn for his story about how we're all socialists when the train we're on breaks down.
>>2837988>London liberals and antifa. Speaking of the latter, what happened to them lately? Ever since that face off with Britain First thugs in Manchester last year, I barely hear a word about them. Even in their official website, the last post is from two years agoNot sure about the various local Antifa chapters, but the OG one was crushed by the pigs in 2018:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-british-police-shut-down-the-original-uk-antifa/ >>2838579If I had a theory, it would be that it’s not necessarily a left vs right thing as much as war-mode selects for fascism and conservatism, while peace-mode selects for liberalism and socdem.
Britain isn’t at war, but it’s still reeling from the 2008 crisis, Brexit crisis, Ukraine war crisis, Covid pandemic crisis, and now the Hormuz Strait crisis.
So this poverty pressure creates conditions that leads the majority to adopt a war-like mode.
Now, I don’t think it would have boiled over. I mean, Yugoslavia used to be a functional state despite having no ethnic majority and said ethnic groups killing each other less than a century ago. And yet, it wasn’t diversity that killed the country, but the collapse of the Yugoslav economy.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/12/ahuj-j12.htmlLooks like the military cabal is agitating for austerity to fund the imperialist war machine of NATO once again.
Now, on the one hand you have Reform and Restore supporting this unpopular move so it’s hard to tell if they’ll be successful to pitch it to the public. OTOH, the ChudIntern has successfully developed demagoguery to a fine science, so no doubt they’ll be able to sell austerity and forced poverty to its constituents.
Like, I already hear the chuds proposing to replace the NHS with American-style healthcare. You know, the same one that would make even disabled immigrants from the commonwealth and the USA liable to pay exorbitant insurance schemes, where around a half of Americans are in medical debt because they can’t pay off their insurance, and where a patent has led to inhalers for asthmatics in the USA to cost over $200 without Medicare or a proper private insurance scheme.
Now, emigration may be tempting for leftists, but keep in mind that at the end of the day there’s no right choice in this matter. I doubt what happened in Belfast will be the worst to come given how Westminster and the MSM has emboldened the fascists and the forces of reaction amplified by oligarchs like Musk into committing greater acts of terror against minorities and leftists. While many predictions can be wrong, many more have come to fruition, so there’s no reason to dismiss a potential fascist takeover in the future. The killings won’t happen immediately, as conditioning and normalisation to the system will happen before the mass murders by the fascists and their government. So better plan for a contingency plan beforehand. I mean, X’itter and other capitalist-owned social media was full of chuds and nazis salivating over what was happening in Belfast and hoping the same to happen across the UK. And yes, they also want to see YOU dead for opposing their agenda.
This isn’t agitprop as the first thing I’d like you to do is to remain calm and then plan for a contingency in case things get worst. Whether it’s the poverty, the rise in bigotry, and government repression which is unlikely to stop regardless of who gets in charge, things aren’t getting better in the UK which at this point is the northwest Euro country with the lowest GDP per capita in the region.
As Sartre once said to a student asking him whether to fight the Nazi occupation of France, or flee to Britain to reunite with his mother, there is no right choice and whatever you chose between the two would be deemed reasonable for the time.
>>2838678They've been doing this for a while, my local "advertiser's monthly" free paper you get through the door had a month or two ago the back page be an article from one of the local MPs saying how we need more defense spending to create jobs and that we need to cut disability benefits because they're not productive etc, fucking bastards. Then constant stories from generals in the tabloids about how we need more war spending, what a fucking shock! Why not ask the leech whether we need to go walking around a swamp barefoot next.
Dominic Cummings has been warning about the risk of serious violence on the streets of Britain for a while. He's a bit coy about from who, but iirc he's said that the government is already monitoring more potential threats than the army could reasonably control.
(I suspect his coyness is because they're far right weirdos but he'd like his own right wing audience to imagine it'll be Muslims and communists and Muslim communists. An optimist of sorts, he thinks that if you actually "solve" immigration these people will deradicalise and go home…)
Of course if you're optimistic, maybe the government is just watching every 2017-19 Labour member and there's nothing to worry about…
>>2838634I take the Hobbesian view that humans are inherently selfish and anti-social, so seek to compromise their vices in constitutions. You are more likely to experience violence and abuse from your own family than strangers, so what does that tell you about the nature of human societies, which have the family as their basic unit?
>>2838678>Now, on the one hand you have Reform and Restore supporting this unpopular move so it’s hard to tell if they’ll be successful to pitch it to the public. OTOH, the ChudIntern has successfully developed demagoguery to a fine science, so no doubt they’ll be able to sell austerity and forced poverty to its constituents.they could sell it with theatrical deportations and brutalising migrants. this was how trump was able to get MAGA to forgive him even though he ran as a peace president. he ramped up ICE. had high profile spectacles. when he started bombing iran all the chud influencers said, well yes he did backtrack but he did deport brown people so its worth it even if he lied.
Whoopsy daisy, looks like those 12 year old girls in Dundee the middle class redditors were calling names really were getting sexually harassed, makes the threads about the event when it happened look pretty putrid.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/1n2719l/should_be_the_final_word_about_the_whole_dundee/https://old.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/1n1i4ol/new_information_on_the_dundee_axe_girl_the_man/https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2d83w1yvyo<A man has been found guilty of making sexual remarks to a group of girls aged between 12 and 14 in Dundee before grabbing and pushing one of them to the ground.<The court heard that Belov had said "hello sexy, I'll show you a good time" to the girls while walking past them in the Lochee area of the city.
<After one of the girls called him a creep, he had returned to confront the group and called his sister, who arrived shortly afterwards and assaulted one of the girls.Whoopsy daisy, police have now admitted they fucked up.
https://news.stv.tv/north/information-given-about-dundee-incident-did-not-fully-reflect-situation-police?
Total Elon victory
Total foreign agitator victory
Glory to wee lassies and their struggle against sex pests
>>2838704Who cares, the last thing of any importance out of Dundee was GTA 2.
>>2838579youu're comparing shamina begum to the start of kristallnacht. im going to let you sit with the absurdity of that claim for a while.
>>2838704bait used to be stronger back in my day
>>2838768Who is this hack
>>2838753So you have no answer for how it's justifiable to take someone's birthright citizenship away because they're a (groomed) criminal? Great, let's move on then.
>>2838769Tedious Neonazi psued.
>>2838769White nationalist who took the autism score meme seriously and realized some of the lowest specimens of the species are other white nationalists, at which point he became an edgy neoliberal. A bit of a twat but interesting to read because he's willing to be honest about the "human capital" problem on the right in a way that leftists aren't. Sometimes makes an arse of himself (endorsed Trump 2024) but usually fesses up.
Being a former wignat also gives him credibility when he says something like "anti-indian sentiment in the US is just racism, Indians are model immigrants for conservatives in every regard except brown skin", which you tune out when a woke person says it.
>>2838780>>2838775He's not tedious, he's got a good gimmick. Tedious is our resident TERF playing the same record over and over.
Or sitting around pretending that there's no idiot problem in politics.
>>2838793Sorry I don't actually give a fuck about the intricacies of the dark entitlement blogsphere, as far as I'm concerned an aristocratic oligarchy enjoyer who thinks everyone that doesn't agree with him is cattle can lay in the same hole as his """formerly""" Neonazi buddies
Need I remind you that Tommy Robinson also did this "former extremist" bullshit
>>2838793He was more of "tasteful" scientific racist a la Steve Sailer than a wignat however.
I've kinda liked him since his rebrand but i don't really get what his deal is.
Palestinian Christian eugenicist father of 3 ranting about transgender being EHC and fapping to giant latina ass on instagram. Odd fellow.
>>2838693Because the family unit is not a 'natural' thing. Bourgeois families are predisposed to abuse because it is a property relation. We need to move forward to socialist that don't have the property element. Read Engels.
>>2838806
They are even more prone to abuse. That's not what I'm advocating for. Again read Engels on Marxists.org.
>>2838769A self-hating Palestinian-American Zionist who shills for whatever he thinks the elites supports at the moment. An example is how he flip-flopped on trans rights, from opposition to support to opposition once more, and keep in mind that his guy supported the Taliban during the Afghanistan war.
Apart from peddling Hasbara propaganda like a good shabbos goy and “race realism” pseudoscience to justify inequality, his positions change constantly depending on (what he thinks) the establishment (what he terms “elite human capital”) supports.
With that said, he does make some good points, like pointing out how the “YWNBAW” crowd never talk crap to adoptive parents or non-biologically related legal guardians with shit like “YWNBAP”, despite the fact that the law largely treats biological, step-, and adoptive parents the same way, making transphobes who apply biological essentialism on trans people hypocrites as they never apply the same standards onto adoptive parents to the point of trying to change laws to reflect that.
>>2838797Yh, wignat would be somebody like Tobias Langdon, a rabid English “cultural Anglican” racist with a “muh blacks” mentality that extends into hatred for brown people too. There was this funny article from him about October 7th where he lamented about Jews for being “white liberals” and then he went into a nasty tirade against Palestinians over the 6 gorillion mass rapes (which are a hoax, btw). The fun part is that he wrote it in the anti-Semitic commentary site “Occidental Observer”, where most of the comments section were like:
“Dawg, stop believing in Jewish hoaxes. We didn’t come here to read this shit”
>>2838833
Anon we are ruled by the americans in all but name.
>>2838833
>Oligarchy is preferable to rule by the actually mentally retarded
Ironically, those are the same thing, anyone that is that detached from normal working class society is effectively mentally retarded
>>2838860Yep, all the while Tory tethers like Elon Musk and Milo Yannapolous run MAGA and the mockingbird influencer network of the American chapter of the ChudIntern.
It’s all rootless cosmopolitans, except the cosmopolitans are all generic bland white nationalists who are deep down reactionary radlibs who still believe in the notion that human societies are markets, but with the addendum that the trade should be based on whatever definition of “white” the elites give out as a metric, with said metric now including East Asians, Jews (even Mizrahi and beta Israel), and Latinx.
>>2838902
It’s not just Musk whose brain got melted by Twitter. Plenty of intellectuals got mindfucked by it, like Alexander Dugin and Curtis Yarvin. If all you knew about both was from their tweet history and TL, you’d think they were just dumb boomercons whose understanding of American politics comes from memes, as opposed to being (pseudo)intellectuals who are notorious for their long essays.
>>2838815
Uygga really refuses to read because shit's written by white people, ok dude real reasoning here not made up 100%
>>2838768>My politics are anti-populist, which kind of sounds like I’m against the average citizen. But that is not necessarily true. I see the vast majority of the public as relatively passive and uninterested in politics. This makes them mostly harmless, and this is why democracy is fine, since, depending on what elites are doing, they can be led in a positive or negative direction.This is the healthiest attitude one can have towards politics - asking the common man to participate in the acquisition of power is like the Christian street preacher asking you to convert. Nobody likes a Bible beater. Aquinas in the 13th century similarly makes exception between the laws of God and civil society (with elites often being the greatest subject of their own discipline). Now, the quadrants which Hanania sets up are quite ridiculous, because politics has little to do with intelligence or truth - politics is about power, and power is given by loyalty. This is why as Socrates says, he is too honest to be a politician. Elitism by the same standard has little to do with test results - we read in the Gospels (Matt 6:5, 15:1-3) that power is granted by dominant codes, often displayed by virtue signalling. Symbols like the Pride and Ukraine flag are symbols of loyalty to power, like how the Nazi flag is a vice signal against ruling powers (power being defined by "current thing" hegemony). Does being more loyal to power make you more intelligent? There is no necessary causation. Now, on the other hand, while there is no causation, there is correlation, since virtue and vice signalling maps onto social intelligence, in the same sense that Ted Kaczynski calls leftists "oversocialised", which produces political correctness, or procedural self-censorship, identical to "medieval" clauses of blasphemy (e.g. only priests are the true believers). The fact that some words are seen as inherently forbidden, such that they have to be censored mirrors the superstition of Rabbis, who censor the name of God. God, or the sacred, in this case, is the category of Race (which Hanania has expertly demystified, previously). Everything melts into air, except Race - this is the great idol of our age (e.g. you can non-controversially be transgender, yet transracial identity is seen as absurd - as Richard Spencer once said, Race is more real to a liberal than a conservative). So, power is not about the intellect - which is why priests make bad leaders, as true believers in the orthodoxy. I am a brahmin type myself, which is why I struggle with the hypocrisies of power.
>Stupid people will explicitly tell you what they’re angry about: vaccines, having to see brown people, women not knowing their place, gender non-conformity, pedophile conspiracies, etc. […] Anger at the rich seems to be more of a phenomenon of the relatively poor intellectual and artistic class, rather than the most disadvantaged. Of course, Hanania forgets to tie all this up in the bow of an antisemitic metanarrative - these dispersed phenomena all have a cause in the mind of the populist, which is the subversive Jew - a more abstract category like "capitalism" is dismissed before it is considered. The theory of causes then must concern us - Christians imagine that all evil comes from The Devil, and all populists imagine that Jews are Satanic. The Greeks are refreshingly honest about the source of evil being Zeus, who in crafting Pandora's Box, unleashed all horrors. The primary reason people leave Christianity is the "problem of evil", yet those who most believe also justify evil as righteous judgement. Here, power rules once more by loyalty (e.g. "the fear of God"). Plato consequently concerns himself with this question; 'are things good because God does them, or does God do things because they are good'? I believe that evil is wrong no matter who does it. I am not a Schmittian.
>I’d like to see the dumb people themselves either be demoralized and leave politicsBut conspiracy theory isn't political, it's anti-politcal. This is also why calling conspiracy theorists "far right" is a nonsense, since that would imply an orientation. Hitler himself was political and intellectual, and his antisemitism was much more reserved than those around him. In Mein Kampf, Hitler's biggest grievance with Jews is that they fail to integrate and so conspire for their particular power, and of course, originally, Hitler simply wanted to deport them, whether to Madagascar or Palestine. Since the time of Miguel Serrano, Jews have become literally demonised as a cosmic force of degeneration. Conspiracy Theory is religious, not political, and so the desire for Hanania is to secularise discourse, and this next quote proves it:
>Someone who writes books preaching Critical Race Theory may be bad at thinking, but it would be wrong to say that they lack intelligence or are in a true sense intellectually lazy. Nonetheless, I still want to see these people defeated.CRA as a catch-all term is referring to a Church. The doctrines are not "thought", they are presupposed and then justified, like any dogma. The desire to eradicate cultism from elitism is easier said than done however, since elites create cults of their own. I sympathise with Hanania, but as I say, Truth is not political.
>I don’t think that, in the long run, rule by podcasts and algorithms is the best way to achieve prosperity and advance the interests of humanity.Despite the new media landscape, official institutions like CNN and the BBC (e.g. ministries of propaganda) still have legitimacy, which is why the right is constantly attacking them. The failure of the right is its negativity, when what is in their best interest is a right-wing BBC. Being oppressed by our leftist hegemony, they become terrorists who deconstruct, so forget how to build. But as it was once said, masses riot, elites revolt. What we saw in Belfast is the opposite of revolutionary activity.
>>2838800>the family unit is not a 'natural' thing.No? Can you give me an example of a society without families and tribes? How do we determine "human instinct" but disregard human society?
>>2838640>It's socialist for the ingroup and murderous for the outgroup. There can be some nuance, such as we see in the Ancient Greek theme of Xenia (t. Odyssey, 700 BCE) and the Roman "Hospitalitas". In the Burgundian Law Code (500 CE) for example, hospitality to "visitors" is compelled by citizens at the threat of legal penalties. The extent of hospitality is allowing travellers to stay in your home - at the same time however, there is the designation of "foreigners" who are assumed to be exiled slaves, and so subdued. This differs again from the account in Homer's Odyssey, where the naked Odysseus is taken in by the father of Nausica and treated extremely lavishly, reminiscent of the account in the Arthurian poem "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" (1390 CE), where Gawain is given a suite in a castle and offered maidens. In the East, we see an exceptional case of a "Black Samurai" (1580 CE), Yasuke, who ascends the ranks of Samurai in Japan - we could compare this to the exceptional immigrant of today, who comes to over-identify themselves with natives as a means of fostering loyalty and respect - which is good.
The earliest explicit anti-racist literature I have read is Daniel Defoe's "True-Born Englishman" (1701):
<These sort of people, who call themselves true-born, and tell long stories of their families, and like a nobleman of Venice, think a foreigner ought not to walk on the same side of the street with them, are own'd to be meant in this Satire. […] From hence I only infer, that an Englishman, of all men, ought not to despise foreigners as such, and I think the inference is just, since what they are to-day, we were yesterday, and to-morrow they will be like us. If foreigners misbehave in their several stations and employments, I have nothing to do with that; the laws are open to punish them equally with natives, and let them have no favour.https://www.gutenberg.org/files/30159/30159-h/30159-h.htm(This has particular relevance today, for the sake of "two tier" policing being a violation of civic equality, given from the McPherson Report of 1999). Daniel Defoe also constructed the first English novel, "Robsinson Crusoe" (1719), which while ambivalent to the institution of slavery, is not in any way bigoted, but extremely paternalistic to the Christian redemption of the negro. Abolitionism arose from 18th century enlightenment, particularly from English Quakers. The Puritans (like Defoe) were the radical protestants of the 17th century, while the Quakers were the radicals of the 18th. Anti-racism then can at least be traced to the beginnings of 18th century English liberalism (England has never had segregation laws like in the US, and as previously reported, when the US visited the UK during WWII, they caused disorder by attempting to impose racial policies, such as in the Battle of Bamber Bridge, 1943). This is also why the architecture of the Civil Rights Act 1964 imported as the Race Relations Act 1965 was a mistake, because we are not part of the American myth of race.
>>2838943Saw someone say its a generational defeat for the loyalists that people outside of britain hear "Belfast" and assume Irish.
>>2839055I cross my fingers for it would be hillarious.
>>2839060I never do antifa work outside of where I live (kinda larpy and I think fundamentally damaging) but I would rock up to the Strand for this one.
>>2839055i hope and pray he's retarded enough to try. maybe some muslim brotherhood lads could turn up
>>2838774rescinding your citizenship to join isis is a major decision. it's not something you can exactly easily come back from, even if coerced
>>2839133
It's okay, I work for Mi5
I'll file this under 'banter'
>>2839100
>>2839168
They aren't going to do anything mate. You're not a cool internet vigilante, you're a nobody.
>>2838833
>Anyone who'll point out Robinson's followers are worthless cattle is at least worth a second glance
no they are not, any sensible left wing person would say that (but in a less edgy way probably), you dont need this pseud piece of shit.
>Oligarchy is preferable to rule by the actually mentally retarded, even if it's still shit.
oh yeah and somehow you're gonna only get hyper competent oligarchs. fuck off.
>>2838909>dugin>yarvin>intellectualsbro they were always dumb as fuck, writing a lot of garbage doesn't make you smart or even 'intellectual' in the cultural sense
>>2839150lmfao what did I miss? oh wow.
>>2839265Very few left wing people would say that openly. The correct thing for a left wing person to believe is that if you just sat them down and educated them, they'd come out as good left wing comrades who know who Rosa Luxemburg was. To go "no, these people are actually nasty idiots and a problem to be managed (by politically disengaging them and hoping that post-revolution the forces that create this disposition disappear leaving behind
harmless idiots) rather than a proletariat to be liberated (by politically
engaging them)" is not the sort of thing a leftist thinks because it is a very nasty thing to think and requires quite a pessimistic view of "human nature."
You don't need a hyper-competent oligarchy, you just need a half-competent one that accepts elections and handles their looting in an organised way. That gets you peaceful transition of power, basically stable governance, and a predictable environment in which to live, which makes peaceful economic and social activity easy. Obviously we're all familiar with all the Marxist critiques of this state of affairs as currently-existing, but as a baseline those two things alone make this the best that life has ever been in a structural sense. (Someone will naturally cite the USSR as an alternative, but they fucked transition of power and wound up with Gorbachev!) Most places, most times, have had little better than a band of armed things who'll beat you up and take your shit on a whim because their great-great grandfather beat up someone and took his shit. Remember that "oligarchy" is the current state of affairs, more or less. No British election has ever been anything but oligarchic.
Keir Starmer could be a B- prime minister instead of an F- prime minister in different circumstances. He would at the very least be a D- prime minister if he never felt the need to pander to Reform voters, which has achieved nothing except destroying his own party.
>>2839271You can be dumb and still be an intellectual.
>>2839574>The correct thing for a left wing person to believe is that if you just sat them down and educated them, they'd come out as good left wing comradesMost people on this website have never read a book - what you are citing as "education" is pure intuition. To be actually educated in the literature of leftism is academic, not political, which is why academics are often immobile, but spunky students are radicalised.
>a proletariat to be liberated (by politically engaging them)Liberated by what? Reading the news every day and posting on Leftypol? Politics is a prison, which is why the utopian object is an abolition of politics.
>requires quite a pessimistic view of "human nature."Pessimistic or realistic? You can't disagree with Truth.
>>2839580I assume you're a different guy to the one I replied to. As such, I have to open by clarifying that naturally everything I said must be read in the context of being a reply to previous statements rather than a set of fundamental axioms.
e.g. where I say "educated" it is as a purposefully floating signifier, because that is what leftists generally believe and it isn't necessary for my purposes to interrogate any closer than that. They don't really read books (as you recognise) but they know that "education" and "organising" are fundamental parts of the belief structure, they know the sort of books they're supposed to pretend to have read, and so on. What education "is" doesn't really matter so long as applying it to Robinson's followers is insufficient to turn them into Lenin's followers.
Where I say "liberated" it is similarly wooly, although I was gesturing at a post-revolution context than in the here-and-now. The two are slightly mixed up: liberated by being part of the revolution, I suppose. I wouldn't include "posting on leftypol" as such a thing, though others might imagine that's what they're doing (instead of consuming left-themed entertainment.) As with "educated", a strong definition isn't necessary to go "when the revolution comes, there are some people you really want to be at home watching TV because they're nasty enough to go reactionary and stupid enough to be a liability to your side"
Disagreeing with the truth is a human universal, we just differ in what truths we disagree with and why. Some people live in nice and kindly fantasies where they're not forced to passively take part in the cruelty that's all around them, others conjure up nightmare worlds to justify being a bastard. That's the real thrust of my post again: Your political alignment is a function of your personality, like most other things people consume. That's why when it comes to saying nasty but perhaps true things about Robinson's supporters, most leftists would avoid doing so.
>>2838944>Despite the new media landscape, official institutions like CNN and the BBC (e.g. ministries of propaganda) still have legitimacyDo they matter in spite of their legitimacy though? Bari Weiss' nu-CBS is seen as a zionist joke and liberals owning all the big legacy media institutions still got them with Donald Trump two times.
>>2839055Does anyone know why there arent actual killings happening anymore at these chud vs antifa rallies? Have people lost their balls? Even the Belfast chud out did not kill anyone. During the summer of floyd and the alt-right peak before it there would be constant reporting of antifa or atomwaffen killing one another.
Where have that energy went?
>>2839614Brits can't carry guns around, a lot harder to kill each other
>>2838697Sorry just wanted to say, "ChudIntern" is amazing lmao.
>>2839613>What education "is" doesn't really matter so long as applying it to Robinson's followers is insufficient to turn them into Lenin's followers.It's not about Logos though, but Pathos. "Starmer is a wanker" until you make a cool edit of him; now suddenly you are his supporter. The left pretends that it doesn't have aesthetics, but that is where the sublime - with politics as an extension of it - comes from. Even as it has been argued, ethics can be primarily aesthetic, such that we speak of internal "beauty" or "ugly" activity ("wealth" is framed in a similar way according to political economy). Aristotle in De Anima says that man's rational organ is his tongue, since with subtlety, it distinguishes between flavours, textures and temperatures - and accordingly, there are assortments of "taste" measured by "high" and "low" culture. To be "educated" is to have "good taste" as you infer, but notice that this is a sensuous, not an intellectual category. The issue of the right is that they are "ugly" with a low culture born from bad taste (e.g. "slop"). Now, the fundamental question is, can you make everybody sufficiently bourgeois or metropolitan? It seems to me that as soon as fashion loses its marginal status, it migrates to the dark corners of innovation once again, so elitism presupposes the exclusivity of class, taste and culture.
>Disagreeing with the truth is a human universal, we just differ in what truths we disagree with and why. I take the absolutist position that Truth is independent of us, and so where we are not aligned with it, we are living in self-deception. I say we cannot disagree because there is no conversation; no dialectic - and so "disagreement" is just stubbornness, or idolatry. But believe me, I am not enlightened either and I love the lies I create. That's why I'm here on this website.
>Your political alignment is a function of your personalityIf you incorporated "personality" into the holistic feature of "class" I would agree. What is "ugly" is largely a classist concept, like how race is largely a mystification of class relations by divisions of labour.
>>2838949Yeah the British were really anti racist what with the deliberate social murder of millions of Indians and other colonial subjects all over the world. You faggots will be remembered as poorly as the Nazis once this deranged mode of production is overthrown.
>>2839677I'm assuming you're American - let's not compare notes.
>>2839668I may give a fuller reply but I'm curious if you have views on the odd ways in which the high/low culture distinction has developed. Neither high nor low status people really go for "real" high culture in great numbers nowadays, but there's still some kind of distinction between low-brow pleasures. Your horny furry and your nazi weeb are both chronic masturbators who need a real hobby, but somehow the furry finds themselves on the tasteful side of the scale despite getting an erection when anubis weighs his heart against a feather.
(You also get lefty weebs and nazi furries, naturally, and you'll find lefty weebs are little elites and nazi furries are a kind of joke caste.)
Perhaps it's like the old medieval reading on Jesus being born in a manger: not that the sun of god was a #relatable commoner like you or I, but that a king remains a king no matter the circumstances of his birth.
>>2839681yanks don't get to complain about any other country until they sort their shit out first. should be the general rule.
>>2839681The Suez Crisis alone showed the US to be more moral than the European Empires. The body count of the US has nothing on the Europeans, especially the British.
>>2839775>Neither high nor low status people really go for "real" high culture in great numbers nowadaysAdorno was a theorist who justified high culture against the torrents of mass (popular) culture, in an explicitly elitist way (1944);
<Films, radio and magazines make up a system which is uniform as a whole and in every part. Even the aesthetic activities of political opposites are one in their enthusiastic obedience to the rhythm of the iron system. […] Not only are the hit songs, stars, and soap operas cyclically recurrent and rigidly invariable types, but the specific content of the entertainment itself is derived from them and only appears to change. The details are interchangeable. […] As soon as the film begins, it is quite clear how it will end, and who will be rewarded, punished, or forgotten. In light music, once the trained ear has heard the first notes of the hit song, it can guess what is coming and feel flattered when it does come.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htmHere, Adorno resents the universality of mass production, and reminisces of a previous artisanship; the archetypal "genius" which motivated progress in art. This appears close to reactionary criticisms of modernism, such as we see with the Third Reich, but there is a secret embedded in this - such as we see in Hitler's reverence for Wagner. We may read Wagner's comments on the ideal future of Art in its means to unify its constituent elements in "The Artwork of the Future" (1849) which sees practical reason in the extension of man with Nature by aesthetic continuity (which is also related to science). The difference between Wagner and Hitler on this point is that by this time, Wagner was anarchic in his vision, until the later split with Nietzsche, where Wagner became more nationalistic. There is continuity in Wagner's view and Adorno's, where Wagner views Nature as the subject (creating Man in her image) while Adorno criticises this crystalised unity in appearing as the completion of Kantian aesthetics (where the pure intuitions of space and time are united in sound and colour, by the film):
<Kant said that there was a secret mechanism in the soul which prepared direct intuitions in such a way that they could be fitted into the system of pure reason. But today that secret has been deciphered. While the mechanism is to all appearances planned by those who serve up the data of experience, that is, by the culture industry, it is in fact forced upon the latter by the power of society, which remains irrational, however we may try to rationalise it; and this inescapable force is processed by commercial agencies so that they give an artificial impression of being in command. […] The old experience of the movie-goer, who sees the world outside as an extension of the film he has just left (because the latter is intent upon reproducing the world of everyday perceptions), is now the producer’s guideline. […] Real life is becoming indistinguishable from the movies.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htmAdorno thus sees that the spectre of reason in the art is built upon a more primary irrationality, in the culture industry itself - the extension of man with culture is his objectification. Is Adorno here just cynical though? We see him criticise talkies:
<The sound film, far surpassing the theatre of illusion, leaves no room for imagination or reflection on the part of the audience, who is unable to respond within the structure of the filmhttps://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/adorno/1944/culture-industry.htmSo Adorno prefers silent films for the sake that it allows for subjectivity in the audience. As an admirer of silent films myself, I think the idea of an either/or is rather ridiculous, and is really quite superstitious, in the same way that the first silent films also hypnotised audiences into the empirical simulation. So, the defense of culture from itself has these various internal contradictions - in any case, Adorno marks himself as a man who hated the movies and music of his own time, valorising classical music over jazz, for example - the same as Hitler, of course. So elitism is unconditional of political orientation. A hatred for the masses occurs both on the left and the right.
>Your horny furry and your nazi weeb are both chronic masturbators who need a real hobbyThey are both the same thing; and you are here qualifying a "real" hobby, but the descent of culture is like the Libertinism of the fascists in "Salo" (1975). Eating shit is the highest form of sophistication, like how the enlightened give adoration to abstract expressionism (a subsidised art movement meant to counter realism). Ugliness is beautified, like the Saintly ascetics.
>a king remains a king no matter the circumstances of his birth.Well, right is always self-evident. When a king must exclaim his kingship, he has already lost it.
Reminder that the royals deserve the Jacobin/Bolshevik treatment.
If they weren't nonces maybe the Mao route could work. But they are nonces.
Maybe the Mao strategy would work if we didn't have a serf culture that would idolise and worship them even if they were stripped of titles, re-educated and sent to a council flat. But we do.
>>2839844I feel like most royal 'worship' in the uk is incredibly skin-deep, these people would mostly move on to the next spectacle if the royals were deposed.
>>2839850My grandma used to keep newspaper cut outs of the queen sellotaped to her wall, including opposite her bed so it'd be the first thing she saw on waking up.
This was a disabled elderly woman who'd lived her entire life in poverty and council housing in a town destroyed by Thatcher, worshipping a multimillionaire tax dodging landlord with a nonce son who didn't know she existed.
Went to the park earlier today and they played the national anthem and immediately everyone stood up, and not just that, they were looking around for any dissenters. I feel ashamed that I complied, even though it's a petty thing, because I hate this shithole. But I did because I expect there's a very good chance id've been harassed otherwise.
>>2839859>My grandma used to keep newspaper cut outs of the queen sellotaped to her wall, including opposite her bed so it'd be the first thing she saw on waking up.okay but i seriously doubt that more than 1/100 people that are under 50 would have that kind of relation to the royals. in fact you'd be looked at as mental by most people if you did. they are too insignificant to daily life.
>Went to the park earlier today and they played the national anthem and immediately everyone stood up, and not just that, they were looking around for any dissenters. I feel ashamed that I complied, even though it's a petty thing, because I hate this shithole. But I did because I expect there's a very good chance id've been harassed otherwise.that sounds sort of mental, they just randomly played the anthem? I don't even know what the national anthem is lol honestly. god saves the king i guess? but could be wrong. britannia rules the waves is better.
obviously there are outliers but I would call it totally wrong to pretend that the british public generally have some imperial japan style relation to the royals where they would die to remove the emperor's portrait from a sinking ship
>>2839863Well I reckon it's a totally different society in Bristol/Brighton/Islington versus in small northern and East Midlands mining towns, but you're right it's definitely much reduced compared to how it was once I suppose
Belfast Telegraph is doing exposés on the loyalist riots: this being the main mouthpiece of respectable unionism in Norn. Real vibe shift.
>>2839930seems like he's just mad that they roughed him up lol, but good anyway i guess
>>2839869Bristol has one of the largest wealth disparities in the country. it really is two or three cities.
As an aside.
Oh no baby! What's happening in this cunt?
If they’re just figureheads why not replace the human monarchs with all the cocker spaniels they keep around?
A cocker spaniel couldn’t be bribed, blackmailed, or participate in an Epsteinite crime, so why not?
>>2839614>During the summer of floyd and the alt-right peak before it there would be constant reporting of antifa or atomwaffen killing one another.>In a different country things were differentWhat insightful commentary comrade.
>>2840011You can bribe them with yummy treats though
The SEP has created a new Supporter tier for those who want to learn more about socialism without committing to membership:
https://www.wsws.org/en/special/pages/sep/uk/support.html>>2840258You and outright member? I was back in 2020 but can't make it to their London meets
>>2840277I'm a member of the US section. My branch meets virtually. Not sure if the UK branches do now, but it's worth getting in touch, given the depth of the crisis of capitalism.
>>2839614>Does anyone know why there arent actual killings happening anymore at these chud vs antifa rallies? Have people lost their balls?Britain is a low violence society. Even during the height of the National Front only one person died at a rally as far as I recall.
As I correctly predicted here a couple weeks ago, they're rolling out age verification for 16+ now. Should come fully into effect Spring 2027.
Which will mean you won't even be able to access youtube, discord, reddit, or any social media without handing over your ID to some third party company in the USA or India that's just waiting for a massive data leak.
Blocking porn sites was one thing, but when nobody in the country can get their tiktok or netflix without ending their passport photo, driving licence, address, and mugshot to some data collection company in the Philippines I think we could see genuine violence and chaos.
As it stands even now you can't buy "mature" games on steam (anything with gore, sex, nudity, etc) without access to a credit card. No Fear and Hunger for Brits.
And according to the already introduced ID check rules, Wikipedia shouldn't be able to operate in the UK because it's over the threshold for the number of users and has NSFW articles.
The only reason we can still access Wikipedia in the UK at all is because they're currently trying to fight it out in court to be found exempt from the rules.
VPN usage is gonna sky rocket even further, yet another expense for us all to pay, and kids will just go to sites that don't follow the law to begin with…
>>2840848You can download VPN apps on your phone for free…
>>2840861That misses the point entirely
>court of appeal holds up PA's proscription
Screaming, the fucking state of this country. Separation of powers is now a thing of the past due to terror precedents; the chickens of the Blair era have come home to roost.
And the opposition, you ask? The Stop The War Coalition? Dead in the fucking water.
The Left has to stand against these fashcel malformoids sharting everwhere, of course, but if it attaches anti-racist politics to the cause of "yay we love refugees 'sex with refugees is jasmine scented', open borders now bigot there are no limits" then it will lose and it is deluded.
We have to attach opposition to this shit to a more realistic basis - "look, you may not like current levels of immigrants, you may have voted for Brexit, whatever, but at the end of the day, do you *really* want vigilantes rampaging through your neighbourhood randomly targeting people and maybe you if you aren't enthusiastic enough? do you want our country torn apart?" - most people when push comes to shove really don't and when they see fash doing fash things (as in actual fash, Leftoids) don't *actually* want it.
>>2840946Labour is leading the charge to reduce net migration, on trends toward negative figures. The issue is a distance between rhetoric and reality. On the far left open border stuff, they will suffer perennial unpopularity until they adjust to common sense, which is that "new arrivals" by the asylum seeker system (e.g. since the Boriswave) have a higher per capita rate of violent crime, because they are obviously incapable of being integrated or naturalised within such a small time. If it takes at least 12 years of British schooling to make a British citizen, the unemployed immigrant who showed up yesterday has no comparative belonging to the land or people. He is a stranger - and in many cases, cannot even speak the language.
>>2840991True to an extent, and the Left needs to make that argument in a way that doesn't encourage racism, concede to it and argue for muh 'send 'em all back' ethnonationalism. And people can't just say "oh but its just erm ILLEGAL immigrants isn't it" - it obviously trickles through, because if the argument is that we can't have refugees because they come from these muh backwards barbaric Muslim nations or whatever than that has implications for how they see their own fellow citizens who are Muslims.
The first most obvious thing that needs to be addressed by the Left is to say that yes, refugees with no documentation need to be cleared and kept away from the public for a reasonable safety measure. It is just silly that people who have criminal records somewhere else can be at liberty if they pose a danger to the public.
But we need to do that in a way that doesn't legitimate 'muh legitimate concerns' that at this point are just racialised - "oh that person is a danger because look he's an ooga booga swarthoid who eats women and children", nope.
>>2841006Well, there is such a thing as unauthorised entry, such as the "small boats" which should not be permitted to be a vehicle for asylum (especially since the vast majority of these cases are young men). Some blame a "lack of safe and legal routes" into the UK for this, yet since 2015 we are in leading figures for extra-national efforts to support asylum seekers (500,000):
<Since 2015, we have offered a safe and legal route to the UK to almost half a million men, women and children seeking safety, as well as family members of refugees. In fact, the UK is one of the largest recipients of UNHCR referred refugees globally, second only to Sweden in Europe since 2015.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/illegal-migration-bill-factsheets/safe-and-legal-routesSo the UK is not an isolated, iron fortress. Further, most small boats arrive from fesignated safe countries in the EU, such as France, and so trying to claim asylum from existing safety is an abuse of the system. Asylum seeking is for people in dangerous countries…
On immigration generally, the public misunderstand the figures; the vast majority of immigrants are legal (students, workers and visitors), and so all the new faces we see in our cities are mostly due to this. These levels can be regulated by stricter visa requirements. We can see the breakdown of figures here (picrel):
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2025/summary-of-latest-statistics
>the Left needs to make that argument in a way that doesn't encourage racismTo me, it is purely a matter of law and order. If you have illegally entered the country (or overstayed your visit), you get sent back. No valid excuse can really obscure this fundamental claim. The idea that deportations are in themselves "racist" is a terrible idea. If you get caught committing a crime, there are consequences - or do many people on the far left believe that we shouldn't have laws?
>>2840946>>2841006the left is doomed regardless of what line it takes. the problem is infrastructural, financial, and logistical rather than based on what line you take. you can take a very pro-immigration line and get away with it if you've got half-functioning infrastructure (see: the SNP, a party at death's door but with decades of experience at the basics and a solid brand to fall back on)
>>2840991labour have delivered on both rhetoric and reality and the result has been to kill their party stone dead. the problem lies elsewhere.
>>2841006all the left has to do is square the circle with a straightedge and compass, then they'll come crawling back.
dumb dumb dumb. you lose the minute you decide to fight on immigration. immigration is not a winning issue for the left. the left wins when you raise the salience of other issues: if an election is decided on the basis of immigration, there are zero scenarios in which the left wins. if an election is decided on the basis of 'are NHS, there are zero scenarios in which the right wins. it follows that only an idiot leftist talks about immigration when they can be talking about nurses.
>but people will notice!most people aren't paying attention most of the time. the last thing you want is for them to hear you, the weak on immigration guy, going "the big issue is immigration" when they could here "we need MORE nurses NOW"
>>2841035the anti-visa thing is one of the dumbest things there is. the country's on the verge of bankruptcy, infinite foreign students want to come here to give us boatloads of money (both directly and via having to pay to actually live here) for pieces of paper so they can show off back home in 5 years, and we're going to prohibit them from doing so because we don't like non-white faces.
a law and order framing isn't as bad as the usual approach, but it still has two key flaws: 1. the right are generally more trusted on law and order issues, and 2. the left are usually alienated by such an approach because it's another kind of reactionary pandering. many of the smarter lefties will also notice that there are very few legal routes for non ukranian refugees to come here, so "they came here illegally!" is cope unless some legal routes are opened up. (there's always a matter of degree in these things: open up the same number of legal spaces as Japan every year, then just go "we're doing as well as Japan", nobody can object to nice little
unspeakably comically racist Japan, can they?)
>>2841043Why does nobody realise the precedent this sets?
This is the formal gearing towards political exclusion using legalistic means, and completely undoes the principle of the separation of powers of the state. The argument will be extended in future towards outlawing all radical parties at the whim of the government and will be the nail in the coffin for this period of democratic rights.
>>2841043We are officially entering the era of the thousand year Kier Sturmer Reich
>>2841046>infinite foreign students want to come here to give us boatloads of moneyNot always; sometimes Romanian students just want to scam the UK out of their money and not pay debts:
<Earlier this month, I was made aware that there is a disproportionately large number of Romanian students settled in the UK who receive student funding from the Student Loans Company. Investigative work undertaken by the Student Loans Company suggests organised exploitation both of Romanian students and of the UK taxpayer.https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2025-03-25/hcws547Or non-EU students, figures go up to £4 billion in loans, 40 percent of which can be unpaid:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/revealed-4bn-annual-cost-of-loans-to-foreign-students/There is apparently a new scandal concerning EU students not paying debts back to the Student Loans Company for £900 million:
https://www.gbnews.com/money/migrant-crisis-university-students-vanish-900-million-loansSo, there's a risk/reward. If there would be unconditional benefits to international student visas, it would mean them paying out of their own pocket - which many do, but many also don't.
>the left are usually alienated by such an approach because it's another kind of reactionary pandering. I don't see how it's reactionary to say that we should have rules in society.
>unless some legal routes are opened up.They are open - to dangerous countries. And a person who has travelled from Africa to France should have already seeked asylum. Many also get airplanes into Heathrow and claim asylum.
>>2841124that's so cool. When i was very young i used to spend so much time playing with that shit lol.
>>2841086>we should have rules in society.For who?
>>2841006>It is just silly that people who have criminal records somewhere else can be at liberty if they pose a danger to the public. >But we need to do that in a way that doesn't legitimate 'muh legitimate concerns' that at this point are just racialisedThere is simply no way to do that. The nanosecond you argue against immigration people, especially migrants, WILL call you racist far-right nazi, at which point you are either forced to stfu or say "immigration control isn't literal nazism i'm not racist i'm whatever blablabla." But by then you are already legitimizing actual nazis + you will be declared an enemy of the people all the same.
>>2841134The commodore era was something special.
I know a younger me didn't have the attention spam for it but i'm glad other people did.
Also,
VOTE BIN! >>2841086High concern for rules following correlates with a reactionary personality. It's one reason trans people get such people so worked up: they're not following the rules!
It is one of their more admirable traits when they stick to it (the old Tory resigning as a matter of honour etc etc, a society does need such people unlike low openness types which are pretty much always bad once you've got beyond subsistence agriculture) and one of their most contemptible hypocrisies nowadays (where a bent wanker can break every rule in the book in the public realm if he's promising to crack lefty/brown skulls once in office)
>>2841148For everybody…
>>2841203>High concern for rules following correlates with a reactionary personality.You are disregarding a distinction between the explicit and implicit.
>where a bent wanker can break every rule in the bookCorruption is the rule of exceptions, which is why the "rule of law" is supposed to persist.
>>2841065I think a fair number of people do realise the precedent, but they can't do anything about it. The only people who are actually allowed into mass media are 95% rabid Zionist authoritarians and 5% stooges that are there to make handwringing articles about how of course it's terrible but resistance is hopeless and unrealistic
>>2841283Nothing better than reality telly.
>>2841288as long as you don't mistake it for actual reality
>>2841289You are free to point out all of the factual errors in the video, if you like.
>>2841292i'm not even gonna watch it lol
>>2841293'course not, you're just gonna whinge.
The programme is quite insightful so far though; after the mines closed in 2002, there was mass unemployment, and the area has been deprived ever since. A common tale.
>>2841315Not the same without Frankie
>>2841317He used to have that show "New World Order" which I found a bit heavy-handed tbh - never as bad as "The Last Leg" with Adam Mills though.
>>2841354I would just refer to this post:
>>2841035- The majority of immigrants are students or high-skilled workers
- Illegal immigrants should be deported (because they're illegal)
There should be no controversy beyond this.
>>2829586>>2829307>What the fuck is happening to this shithole islandGoyim are going insane
>>2840759SUTR is unironically one of the worst things for socialism in Britain and something that must be overcome if we want to go any further.
>>2841354
Mass immigration to socialist countries is good because immigration = increased workforce and economy. Also for example if you are a small socialist country like Wales you desperately need population to put into the military in order to stand a better chance against the reactionary saes.
>>2841354
I will be brief because the novelty of the point has worn off for me: A world in which I am paid £40k to do a job, and a world in which I'm paid 20k and an immigrant is paid £20k, are both worlds where net wage expenses and income are £40k. I lose out, yes, but the immigrant gains, so the net effect is zero. (or positive if you account for the fact that the immigrant going from say, 5k > 20k is a bigger leap than me going £20k > £40k.) The same basic principle applies to taxes and transfers. (An immigrant that actually doesn't work is of course not a contributor and that's negative, but if we're playing that game we should start by deporting all the Reform voting codgers…)
a party that proposes to deport the immigrant and give me £20k a year more from his pocket is a nativist party, not a worker's party.
This is a fallacy that the left is prone to as well (though the pro migration ones might fudge it and pretend labour markets aren't competitive or that unions will magically come back and fix everything), but the fact that it is so universal and so badly engaged with is one of the little things that has pushed me further and further towards an actual, completely unironic open borders position. Say what you will about neoliberalism, at least it's an ethos…
I can't wait for the 2027 Burnhamreich where teenagers get arrested for watching Youtube after 8.30 PM, but not for burning their neighbour's houses down in race riots :)
This thread is funny, really shows how much of a busted flush the British left is
>those grooming gang victims were willing child prostitutes>who cares about those dundee girls>also shamima begun was groomed at 15, let her back in! :( <heh have you considered my genius strategy of pointing out that white people commit crime too? there's even a gang feud that resulted in a beheading 7 years ago, jackpot!>ummm sweetie the victims family have once again asked for everyone to respect diversity and called for calm [gets immediately counternarratived by viral articles of the RICU grooming victims' families]'<near silence on belfast riots/pogrom, at least compared to the oxygen given to the bin throwing in the weeks before itAnd yes goomba fallacy for some of these but obviously none of you care enough about your positions to argue with your total opposite in the very same thread. It's just opportunistically grabbing at narratives to do what you want, for reasons presumably long since forgotten.
Will drop this good article from tandfonline of all places that I think sums up why you're all spinning your wheels so much nowadays, so at least I'm doing something more than laughing at your predicament. It's by an Indian humanist and expert on communal violence.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2025.2555562There's also a funny text jump scare in the article if you stick with it>>2841634i'm offended that you ignored my strategy of talking about nurses.
i have of course only skimmed the article (might come back to it, it's 9am) but i'm sceptical of its conclusion that one should engage with "traumatic events" and "confront disinformation", the net effect of which is usually just to amplify and normalise the right while shrinking the amount of attention given to the issues that you're strong on.
i am instinctively drawn more to the hanania theory and strategy: dumb people got interested in politics and the fundamental task ahead is to disinterest them again. of course, liberals would balk at the measures needed to achieve this if they could even understand the parameters of the problem… (despite all of the precedent having already been set one way or another.)
>>2841634>groomign gangsHysteria
>Support for Reform is not simply an expression of ‘protest’. Although those who back the party are more likely than voters in general to be struling with the cost of living, to be concerned about the health service, and to be unhappy about how the country is being governed, they are distinguished above all by having a socially conservative outlook that is reflected, inter alia, in their attitudes towards immigration, equalities policies, and welfare spending, and is underpinned by a demographic profile that is dominated by older voters and those who have not been to university. That suests that, on their own at least, meeting successfully some of the policy challenges that currently face the government, such as reviving economic growth, increasing living standards, and improving the performance of the NHS, will not necessarily engender a significant reversal of the rise in support that has been enjoyed by Reform since the 2024 election.
>In truth, the rise of the party is best seen as the latest instalment in the transformation of the ideological basis of electoral choice in Britain in the wake of Brexit. People’s attitudes towards Britain’s relationship with the EU are aligned with where people stand on the libertarian/authoritarian dimension rather than whether they are on the ‘left’ or the ‘right’.
t. john curtice.
>>2841634>Far-right actors have also diversified over the past decade, and this has led to unpredictable alliances between ideologically incommensurable groups, as well as hybrid ideologies that do not map into easily recognizable forms – “MAGA communism” led by an ethnic minority figurehead being one example (Al Din Citationn.d.).shoutout to the ACP and a certain Mr. Al Din
>>2841281How do obese people even pay for their food? Even by eating only garbage you would loose tons of money unluess eating gruel.
Wassup?
>>2841503£40k/y is a high-paying position in the UK.
The main concern is about lowering the standards of low-paying positions even further, although we see with junior doctors, the same middle class struggle to protect their labour from competition. In any case, it seems more rational to allow immigration only after an acceptable rate of employment for national citizens; but as yet, 25% of young people in the UK are out of work.
>>2841826Pro-Israel but also pro anti-jewish neo-nazis? Literal chameleon.
>>2841828The absolute state of 21st century neo-nazis
>>2841828He probably did some zio aligned 'dna test'. they say everyone is 'jewish'.
>>2841829the 40k/20k thing is just to illustrate the underlying maths, since the real situation is much more marginal than that.
if you ban immigration employers aren't going to stop being picky, they're just going to have unfilled positions. this is a deeper institutional problem with british firms and with firm management in general.
it is irrational to allow immigration conditional on a certain employment rate for citizens. that's just the old lump of labour fallacy. if an employer will only employ an immigrant for one reason or another, the way you maximise native employment is to hire that immigrant (because they'll require goods and services from other, less picky employers.)
fixing youth unemployment is basically a separate issue entirely, tying back in to firm management and the generally dismal structure of every part of our economy.
>>2841840>if you ban immigration No one suggested 'banning' immigration.
>it is irrational to allow immigration conditional on a certain employment rate for citizens. If there are limited amounts of positions in the NHS, you are either preferring immigrant labour or national labour - what you are saying is that you prefer hiring immigrants to hiring nationals for the same positions, which is irrational, unless you imagine that national citizens have less of a right to things in their own country. Being part of a nation gives you priority to foreigners; that is part of the deal.
>fixing youth unemployment is basically a separate issue entirelyHow? Youth unemployment is caused by a restricted labour market, along with alternative incentives like state benefits. What is wrong with hiring youths up to at least a 90% rate and then allowing immigrants to work in the country?
>>2841065>will be the nail in the coffin for this period of democratic rightBro, it's over. You will get the digital ID and you will be happy.
>>2841840>lump of labour fallacyThis "fallacy" assumes an always growing economy and no planning. After all there is a set amount of needs every human has and only a certain amount of food, clothes, shelter, healthcare, etc are needed. To fulfill basic human needs you can have a set "lump of labour."
>>2841868>Benefits cause youth unemploymentWelcome back Wes Streeting
>>2841898Would you say that benefits increase or decrease unemployment?
>>2841903Decrease, since the economy would instantly collapse without them. Look at countries in the middle east or Africa where there's either an extremely weak state or no state whatsoever, unemployment in those places can be up to like 70% or more.
>>2841913Right, so benefits increase unemployment.
No controversy so far.
>>2841868if you only allow immigrants when youth employment meets an arbitrary level which the policy will not in fact achieve, you are banning immigration.
if there are limited positions in the NHS and the NHS does not have the funds to train the relevant person, you do not have the choice of using national labour. you either hire a foreigner or go without. (you may say "ah, but this doesn't apply to unskilled jobs!" but you're the one who picked the NHS as your example.)
i believe citizens have no more or less right to a position than any other person. that is a decision for the employer.
there is perhaps a case for allowing some meddling or incentives at the local council level, but at the "national" level it is meaningless. an englishman can come and "take" scottish jobs and that's fine, an
irishman can come and "take" english jobs and that's fine, but the moment a dutchman does the same it's a crying shame? fuck off.
>>2841879given that we do not live in a planned economy and that our current stated policy aim is an always growing economy, your objections don't hold in practice even if they're true in theory. i don't really accept that they're true in theory either, however. human wants and needs grow over time as our capacity and imagination grows. in 1950 it would be non-trivial to predict the demand for an 8 hour morrowind video essay and it is a good thing that those who want this can now have it.
>>2841903decrease unemployment via countercyclical spending, also decrease crime and death by starvation.
youth unemployment is a function of a badly structured economy with a lot of capital tied up in the wrong sectors + low effort-reward ratio in applying for jobs encouraging NEEThood.
Benefits are a non-issue, in comparison to what an issue is still made of them. You can tell this because of how many bands and musicians in the late 20th century practiced and wrote music while on the dole, in the 21st century they’re all middle class and did the practice and writing on a laptop while living in their parent’s holiday homes.
As soon as music stops being shit therefore, then we can reignite the debate over benefits but clearly they’re not enough to save music.
>>2841914I used the wrong word, fugg :^DDD
>>2841915oh yes, one more factor: parents can now actually afford to support their kids even if they grumble about it, so kids naturally wait for good jobs etc. it may not look like it, but we
are richer than in the distant past.
>>2841916benefits should be increased and it should be funded by taxing private pensions.
>>2841915There's still an absurdly low cap on the number of doctor training places in the UK, we might not need to import doctors from abroad if we just doubled/tripled the number of doctor training places
>>2841915>if you only allow immigrants when youth employment meets an arbitrary level which the policy will not in fact achieve, you are banning immigration. Are you saying that it's impossible for more than 3/4 young people to ever be employed?
>if there are limited positions in the NHS and the NHS does not have the funds to train the relevant person, you do not have the choice of using national labour. You don't seem to understand - we have trained medical students in the country who cannot find stable employment:
<Half of resident doctors finishing foundation training say they have no job secured for next month, according to a major survey from the BMA – leading the doctors’ union to seek a deal on training places as part of its ongoing dispute with the Government. […] this year there were more than 30,000 doctors applying for around 10,000 specialty training places.https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-seeks-deal-on-doctor-unemployment-as-survey-reveals-half-of-resident-doctors-finishing-foundation-training-have-no-job-to-go-to-next-month>i believe citizens have no more or less right to a position than any other person. that is a decision for the employer. Right, so you are pro-capital and anti-labour, while I am in support of policies which protect labour from capital.
>decrease unemploymentSo if more people were on benefits, we would have more employment? How about if 100% of people were on benefits?
>youth unemployment is a function of a badly structured economy Yes, one which you support, since you think rectifying unemployment figures is impossible, yet hiring immigrants is necessary.
>>2841916The point isnt benefits being an "issue", it is to empirically verify the causes of unemployment. Those musicians were unemployed.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2026/jun/15/one-in-six-britons-growth-muslim-population-threat-uk-culture-studyIt should be noted that the study found that 17% strongly agree that growth in Muslim population is a threat, compared to 19% that somewhat agree, reaching a total of 36%, in contrast to 33% that overall disagree and the rest being neutral on the subject.
It should also be noted that political leanings, amount of time spent interacting daily with Muslims and age strongly determine opinion shares per the study the Guardian cites.
But I found more surprising how the libs of Reddit were turning into neocohens when it was posted, spouting white genocide-type nonsense and neocohens agitprop slop, which surprised me as a Yankee since:
- What’s the point of talking about “Muslims” when everyone in Europe knows it’s a euphemism for brown people? It’s not like the busherite gammons will be accepting of Indian Anglicans, so what’s the point of talking about Islam? Plus the British right has already moved onto hating on black Prots too and even biracial Brits, so there’s no point in it.
- I’ve heard the same agitprop for years but it’s yet to see come to fruition all the doomsday prophecies about Muslim immigration to Europe. Every single future demographic statistic is subject to revision and that’s already the case for global population statistics which are now being constantly revised due to the global fertility crash. And even in the UK, we are seeing immigrant TFRs converging with that of the natives, and the same occurs in their home countries for the most part. That, combined with how over 80% of all temporary residents in the UK makes it so that it’s unlikely Muslims will ever achieve a majority in Britain unless you think TFRs will be constant and that the economy will remain the same. Already we are seeing drops even in the number of applicants from non-European countries due the UK’s economic downturn and increasingly restrictive laws (the same also occurring in Trumpian America, btw).
- Much like the myth of Muslim “no-go zones” based on shoddy tabloid reporting from more than a decade ago based on a real (now defunct) Islamist patrol watch group headed by a ginger Muslim convert, much of it is agitprop imo. So that’s why I also tend to be sceptical about so-called “Muslim power”. In fact, if you asked these neocohens to cite an example of a law that came to pass because of Muslim lobbying that isn’t symbolic, they’d fail because let’s face it: TERFs and Jews have more sway on British policy making than Muslims, as shown by how Zionist censorship, Starmer enforcing transphobia, and the prosecution of PA activists over Jew feelz happened even with Muslim resistance
- One of the most common complaints I hear about from libs is that British Muslims care “too much” about Gaza. Well, ofc they’d do just like most Brits do as the Gaza genocide not only is one of the worst tragedies of the 21st century, but it’s all being done whilst Israel gets shit ton of aid by the same west that has sanctioned Russia for invading Ukraine and committing war crimes less atrocious than that of Israel. It should also be noted that Gaza isn’t inconsequential as Israeli lobbying has successfully shaped public and foreign policy of western countries (the UK included) to suppress criticisms of Israel, especially on social media, with a few of them being global and almost all of them being American which, as you know, it’s bad since America is literally a ZOG.
- I’m not sure if any one of them has ever talked to any young Muslim, but as far as my experience go many of them are basically shitlibs who adhere to a more liberal interpretation of Islam and, whilst unwilling to criticise their religion much like liberation theology-type Christians, are a far cry from what islamophobes think. And honestly, is it that surprising? A common point that I made to chuds is that the rate at which non-white immigrants are assimilating is faster than that of white ethnics in the 19th century, so there’s no point of latching onto whining about POCs being more conservative when it’s unlikely that many of them will hold onto their conservatism for long, especially as many of their enclaves are rundown.
Maybe the situation is different in North England which is where most of these libs are making their complaints from, but it’s hard to say.
But with all said, I to not sound like a lib, but it’s true that Islamophobia (because remember, we are dealing with bigotry against Muslims, not just simple criticisms of Islam) is based more on vibes if anything. Sure, you can complain about lack of integration, that’s fine. But you’ve gotta ask: Without relying on racial essentialism and determinism, what could be the reason behind it? I think they are structural but I don’t think grievance politics helps here because structural problems aren’t caused by a single entity that can be sued in court so obviously you can’t really pin down anybody to blame for.
That’s why I’m not an islamophobe tbh: Many of them are low-autism score in thinking Islam is this uniquely nasty thing when as far as theology is concerned it’s not any worst than Christianity and Judaism. But there’s also the fact that many of their arguments concerning Muslim as a people are paper thin at closer examination, rely heavily on essentialist metaphysics, and aren’t exceptional to them. Like, many of the complaints British chuds make about Muslims today can be applied to non-white people in general + were echoed by their predecessors when it came to white ethnics like the Irish and Eastern Europeans in America and, while we Americans have a different POV thanks to the benefit of hindsight, back then European immigration in 19th century America was seen as being so destabilising as to possibly cause a second American civil war, with rural vs urban, woke vs non-woke divides being present. And that existed to a certain extent in the UK as well, well Britain would have most certainly ended up in a civil war over Ireland if WW1 didn’t start.
As an American seeing European discourses I couldn’t help but notice how, apart from how Europeans seem to be 20 years behind every happenings in America, the Muslim basically exists in the European egregore as a racialised other who is a subject of both hate and perverse “love” (e.g., Renaud Camus who, before turning into a partisan hack, had as his master works a bunch of erotic gay novellas featuring Algerian doms).
Basically, much like American chuds are stuck in a “muh blacks” mentality, Eurochuds are stuck in both that plus the “Muh Muslims” mentality, and this obsession leads to some funny stuff (like right wing cuckposting) but also dumb historical revisionism such as the copium that post-Roman Europe would be Agartha if it wasn’t for the early Arab expansions and later Barbary piracy (e.g.,: O’Neill’s “Holy Warriors: Islam and the Demise of Classical Civilization”). For an American case I’m familiar with, there’s the common talking point that Detroit’s decline is due to black people when it much of its decline is concurrent with the general decline of the American automobilistic industry. As an example, Henry Ford (yes that Ford) relied on cheap white ethnic immigrant labor for his car factories and, after immigration declined due to the 1924 immigration act, he began to rely on cheap black American labor.
Now, with all that being said, there are legitimate criticisms towards Muslim people like lack of integration but then again we’d have to ask what if the issue is on an individual level or due to systemic barriers.
Also, I do think that many of these libs are stuck in the 2000s considering that much more pressing would be kahanism among British Jews and white grievance extremism in Britain’s poorer areas considering how those are less scrutinised, particularly Zionist lobbies in general.
But as a leftist, I would generally treat it as a culture war issue that should be addressed in materialist terms rather than engaging in within the parameters of the right. Because if there’s one thing the right has successfully accomplished, is changing the way we speak of these issue. Case in point, “Boriswave” which was OG a far-right term before being so normalized that even Keir Starmer used it. And ofc, the purpose of the term is to pretend it’s all Boris’ fault when it actually arose due to the shortage of workers due to the very Brexit the same far-right supported (with complicit help of the elites).
So to fight it, either avoid the terms, or re-invent them. In this case, it would be good if instead of using “boriswave” we used Brexitwave, since the whole purpose of the former is to distance it from Brexit.
>>2841922It is not "anti labour" to think a proletarian doctor from Australia and a proletarian doctor from Essex are equally entitled to work in Glasgow. Workers of the
world unite. Your position is a nativist one.
>>2841915>we do not live in a planned economySure, it's not centrally planned. But laws and economic policy can force changes to markets which impact things like employment.
>our current stated policy aim is an always growing economyIt is? I for one don't think humanity should be forced to make more plastic shit so that line goes up.
>human wants and needs grow over time as our capacity and imagination grows.Until humans become a different species needs won't grow.
>an 8 hour morrowind video essayPeople can do that for fun after they produce enough to fulfill basic needs.
>>2841933>What’s the point of talking about “Muslims” when everyone in Europe knows it’s a euphemism for brown people? There are some Christian conservative types who want a multi-racial crusade against Islam - the most evangelical parts of the UK are going to be non-white people.
>Plus the British right has already moved onto hating on black Prots too and even biracial Brits, so there’s no point in it.Do you have a source for that claim? I understand the vibes, but I don't see the rhetoric.
>I’ve heard the same agitprop for years but it’s yet to see come to fruition all the doomsday prophecies about Muslim immigration to Europe.Well the question is, are Muslims are secular people? As far as I see, they have a theocratic strategy. The "doomsday" is losing liberal democracy, which could be a possibility if fundamentalism persists.
>TERFs and Jews have more sway on British policy making than MuslimsRight, and Jews are also theocrats.
>many of them are basically shitlibs who adhere to a more liberal interpretation of Islam I wonder when there will be female imams? That will be the day.
>That’s why I’m not an islamophobe tbh: Many of them are low-autism score in thinking Islam is this uniquely nasty thing when as far as theology is concerned it’s not any worst than Christianity and Judaism.Coming out of New Atheism and watching theological debates on religion helps you become more familiar with the similarities of Christianity and Islam; they are both using the same philosophical arguments, appeals to authority, etc. (you can find Muslims in modern videos "debunking" evolution with all the same apologetics). I think the cloud of ignorance is just in a lack of common language. Also, I have tried to read the Quran 3 times before and I get bored a quarter of the way through, and growing up in a Christian society, I have a greater cultural investment in the Bible and its myths.
>Eurochuds are stuck in both that plus the “Muh Muslims” mentalityI take a liberal scepticism towards Muslims, personally. 95% of them are lovely people, I'm sure, but shame about their religion.
>>2841942It is anti-labour if it doesn’t benefit British prole or if it only ends up breaking worker’s solidarity.
I do think that, while materialism is good, ultimately the existence of a consciousness means that people are more influenced by baseless vibes more than we’d like to give credit for.
Does that mean that a multi-ethnic and multi-racial proletarian solidarity is impossible? No. I mean, look at Cuba, communist Yugoslavia, the USSR, etc… Those countries were/are flawed and, while it would be wrong to say that racism in those places doesn’t exist, they were at least egalitarian and implemented it far more consistently than the USA did.
But what did they have in common that today’s Britain lacks?
Simple: A national tale of common struggle based on shared experience. The closest thing we had to that was WW1 and WW2, but we ended up discarding it since:
- It mostly served to valorise the British empire
- its becoming less relevant as anything other than the first chapter of gammons’ fairy tales of British history
- It’s not exactly leftist
So that’s out of the question. I guess we’ll have to make it ourselves then or forget about it, but I’ll remind you that German national consciousness didn’t arise in the Middle Ages, as much as in the aftermath of the 13 years war which the HRE bore the brunt of it to the point that there was little to no German polity that wasn’t touched by the war. And prior to that, most Germans back then defined themselves less by their ethnicity and more by their place of origin, familial kin, clan, religion, and the polity they were born in.
>>2841942If you think workers of a nation have no rights to protect their labour from competition, but that public and private employers have a superior right to outsource, then you support capital over labour - but I will ask you, if workers are striking, and an employer hires scabs, is there any wrongdoing here? A lack of solidarity, perhaps?
>Your position is a nativist one.My position is that citizens of a nation have priority over foreigners, otherwise there is no meaning to being a citizen. But if not, why shouldn't the entire continent of Africa be able to claim benefits in the UK, say? It would be more utilitarian, surely.
There's so many small Marxist groups in the UK today (almost all of them irrelevant).
I'm not an Anarchist myself, but why are there are so many fewer Anarchist, AnCom, groups in the UK by comparison?
>>2841942The Berlin wall existed for a reason. Migration is a tool systematically used by imperialists to drain and subordinate immigration origin countries. It hurts workers both in the imperialist and imperialized worlds. Ukraine is being destroyed right now in large part due to the visa agreements being the carrot for gusano fucks who played a role in the CIA regime change op.
>>2841961Who or what did the mum fuck as an “act of rebellion” to suspect this?
>>2841961I think its cos of the recent case of the men adopting a child and then killing it.
>>2841948>Do you have a source for that claim? I understand the vibes, but I don't see the rhetoric.Besides Steve Laws and other Neo-Nazis joining Restore Britain (bankrolled by Elon Musk, whose leader is a Thatcherite with Enoch Powell characteristics), there’s also flag-shagger and professional race hustler Ryan Ferguson who claims to have a biracial half-sister after his dad left the family for a black woman (which Ryan resents). Ryan claims his associates want to deport his half-sister alongside all non-whites:
https://uknip.co.uk/news/uk/uk-news/ryan-fergusons-far-right-views-linked-to-family-background-and-racism/And ofc, there’s Lotuseasters.
>The "doomsday" is losing liberal democracy, which could be a possibility if fundamentalism persists.Sure, but no one knows for how long it will persist because time changes. If you told anyone in 2016 that “cuck island” (as the alt-right used to call the UK) would have Farage ousting the Tories, one of the oldest political parties in history still in existence, in opinion polls and by-elections then everybody would look at you incredulous. So it’s hard to make predictions about the future, especially as things are currently getting unstable. Whether or not the rise in busherite Islamophobia will result in BAME Muslim compensating either via assimilationism and white-maximalism (like German Americans and Japanese Americans after WW2) or by becoming even more self-segregated (like the Roma people) remains to be seen. But like I said, the fact that few of the doomsday-sayers can cite any concrete policy that got enacted thanks to Muslim lobbying is jarring. Like, the best example I can think of would be Turkish lobbying to force the EU to sanction Kurdish militias in the Fertile Crescent, but even then it isn’t strictly Islamic as both Turks and Kurds are nominally Muslim and anti-Kurdish sentiment isn’t exclusive to Turkish islamists, and Turks in Europe (especially Germany) are basically the Latinos of Europe due to genetic proximity plus assimilation rates. Just like Kurds in western Anatolia assimilate in 1-2 generations, so do Turks in Germany. You can ask any Turks for that.
Not saying that there aren’t legitimate criticisms, just that the ones that smacked to my face on social media aren’t particularly good, especially from contards and chud-coded shitlibs as a lot of it is derived from agitprop, sensationalism of a few cases, recycling of neocohen “clash of civilisation”-type ideological gibberish, or just pure bigotry.
The only smart criticisms come from here, which says a lot given how much the establishment pushes for criticisms (both legit and non) of Christianity and Islam whilst being avoidant of Judaism despite the fact that it’s probably the only Abrahamic religion that has a binding divine command for genocide. You might remember it considering how Ben Gvir and Bibi Netanyahu invoke the Amalek to justify their atrocities against Palestinians, and since you’re invested in the Bible then you probably should know who the Amalek are, right?
So yh, while I do share your sentiments, I’m likely more sceptical if only because the sloppy takes get pushed onto the mainstream. You know, like how anti-Indian sentiment bordering on genocidal rhetoric rarely gets a pushback even from nominal libs back during the Biden years. Granted, I can see the points, but a lot of them are as bad-faith as run-of-the-mill Islamophobia in that ultimately they rely on essentialisms and sensationalism.
With that said, how much do you interact with British Muslims on a daily basis? Because daily proximity is more likely to affect your attitudes on them more than anything else. But that goes for any group tbh.
>>2841961It was predictable that the trans panic was a Trojan horse for homophobia. In fact, the panic over “trans kids” was a Trojan horse for transphobia, and that was something that the alt-right played on with great success.
Now, it makes you wonder how will gay chuds react to the increase in homophobia as many of said homophobes are lumpen. Will they continue to cuck for the lumpen much like how they constantly cuck to TERFs, or finally break from their psychological housebreaking?
Because I see an uptick in homophobia among TERFs too:
https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/GenderCynical/comments/1u575jr/terf_uses_pride_month_to_whine_about_trans_people/ Already the most prominent TERFs in the UK such as Kathleen Stock have opposed further liberalisation of Britain’s abortion law which are currently stricter than even Ireland which used to have one of northwest Europe’s strictest abortion laws by virtue of being the most conservative country in that region.
I think my prediction that TERFs will cease to exist as a distinct group and turn into the white middle-class female caucus of the ChudIntern is coming to fruition.
Not sure about y’all, but immigration has basically turned into brainrot to the point that it has overtaken state surveillance, corruption, healthcare, the environment, energy policy, housing, the economy, and climate change as the top issue, when it should be among the top 10 at best. It’s not inconsequential, but not as pressing when think about it. Like, the UK’s energy sector is in an abysmal and dependent state, corruption in the form of “dark money” and campaign donations is widespread, the climate change is leading to a greater frequency of floods and heat waves, and every year thousands of people die because of the high cost of utility bills on winter.
We’ve gotta break free from the matrix before it consumes as all.
Anyway, any left-wing white pill as of late?
>>2841984>The only smart criticisms come from here, which says a lot given how much the establishment pushes for criticisms (both legit and non) of Christianity and Islam whilst being avoidant of Judaism despite the fact that it’s probably the only Abrahamic religion that has a binding divine command for genocide. I think they are such a civic minority that it is irrelevant to most people. Most people on the street probably don't even know the difference between the old and new testament.
>With that said, how much do you interact with British Muslims on a daily basis? I hardly interact with anyone in general, but the times I do interact with Muslims is always pleasant. Like I say, they make up about 2 billion people on the earth, so most of them are going to be nice - and I understand too that just like most Christians, they haven't read their holy books and all the rest, so impress a genuineness from their own heart.
>>2841967It's crazy when you realize this is only happenning because:
1) Traditional medias lost control over Palestine (the main reason)
2) Isolating transgender teenagers
The real ruler of Britain is a retired NGOblob second-wave feminist, not Keir Starmer, not Farrage, not Theresa May, not anyone cold and technocratic either. The last 12 years of politics makes much more sense when seeing things that way.
>>2841993It wasnt a trojan horse for anything besides maybe slashing young people's right and autonomy altogether in an aging gerontocratic civilization. It slips back into homophobia because that's the telos of transphobia when done correctly.
not gonna lie sisters but communization theory has been appealing a lot lately recently.
>but it's too extreme and niche and autistic for 2020s Britain!
social democracy and everything to the left of it, opposing genocide even, is beyond the pale for our current government and population.
democratic socialism has become a niche and outlandish radical left position to hold in our modern society with 0% chance of being achieved, so you may as well go full tilt, no compromises
>>2842089Partisan BS, since among its most cited sources include such brilliant minds as Taj Harley, Tommy Robinson, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. A good chunk of the report includes a diatribe on how Islam is why rape happens (because sexual violence is never sanctioned in other religions), alongside a loaded narrative that immigration increased rape rates during the 2010s as unlike Poland (because apparently lower stigma to report rape among women could have never been a factor).
The most suspect thing, as you’ll note from the chapter list alone, is that it never talks about its methodology so we are left to question regarding the validity of said inquiry. The “hundreds of thousands white British girls” mantra is often repeated throughout despite the report itself admitting that they’ve got no evidence for it. The source for the “250,000” figure, the only hard estimate they give, is sourced from a politico during a debate.
All in all, it’s not really an “inquiry” report as much as a race-baiting advocacy piece made by Elon’s puppet in Britain. Decent propaganda hit piece since his fanboys will accept as gospel whilst his haters will dismiss it out of hand because no one will bother to read +290 pages. But factually? There’s no data breakdown, plus it’s Lowe that we are talking about and I don’t expect him to be impartial or above making shit up, especially when it comes to “whistleblowers” which might as well be a weasel word atp.
>>2842089Is there a reason the link isn't working?
Has he deleted the tweet? (i dont have an account)
>>2842089No comment but I do wish Rupert Lowe was forced at gunpoint to renounce his citizenship and cross the Atlantic on a dingy to seek asylum in America as a small boat immigrant (of course, he wouldn't make it).
>>2842180Works for me tho.
Around the age of 13, Chloe disclosed to social services that she was being sexually abused by gangs of Muslim men. In response, social services did not intervene, but rather talked to Chloe about contraception and sexual health. One social worker started regularly taking Chloe to a sexual health clinic, where she was diagnosed with chlamydia in her throat and vagina, gonorrhea, genital warts, and pelvic inflammatory disease. Neither the social workers nor the clinic staff questioned or reported this. The police were aware of Chloe’s activities, but instead of targeting those responsible for her abuse, they routinely failed to question them – let alone pursue further action – when Chloe was found in cars and houses with them
https://www.therapeganginquiry.org/>>2842353Religgers rape kids, pigs bury, a story as old as time. People still go to church and even the epsteinite prince is free. Sick world
>>2842353The lack of transparency regarding methodology, combined with how little we know regarding the veracity of the claims, the lack of nuance, as well as constant citation of culture war figures already makes the report suspect IMO, especially since the report requires us to take its claims at face value.
But the biggest red flag has to be its anonymous testimonies. Prior to the release of the report, the testimonies were sourced from anonymous tips which could be submitted on the public website you linked by just writing down the email address and your name. We also have to ask on which criteria did Lowe and his gang select the testimonies and whether his political bias played a role in it.
I’m a materialist and sceptic, so I can’t take claims just at face value, I need actual empirical evidence and hard proof together with transparency.
My biggest scepticism concerns the methodology, how much the partisan bias of the people behind the committee influence their decisions, the way the anonymous testimonies were collected and parsed and the extent to which the bias is involved, the veracity of the testimonies, how much influence did the funding have on the findings, but most of all…
How do we know drug use and iatrogenic harm by the authorities isn’t a factor in the testimonies, even assuming that they’re real?
Because the report doesn’t really provide empirical evidence that it was some sort of organised mass crime as opposed to the typical convention that it was a series of localised crimes.
It should also be noted that it’s unknown whether it was juvenile prostitution, one-off gangbangs, one-off gang-rapes, or repeated ones. If a report aggregates different forms of offending into a single category, it can create the impression of a coherent national phenomenon when the underlying reality may be much more heterogeneous.
Likewise, we don’t know if much of the testimonies in general were retrospective ones made after heavy drug use.
Honestly, the worst part of this debate is that Britain has been so obsessed over it that investigations over familial rape and child poverty have been neglected in the national discourse, despite the fact that most CSA occurs in family settings and by authorities like church figures and policemen, with the poverty and family background being risk factors and more likely to affect self-perception than even the sexual act:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370523396_Perceived_Parental_Attachment_and_Psychological_Distress_Among_Child_Sexual_Abuse_Survivors_The_Mediating_Role_of_Coping_Strategies
>”We found that parental attachment significantly predicted CSA survivors’ psychological distress. Additionally, both approach coping and avoidance coping mediated the effect of perceived parental attachment on psychological distress. CSA severity was found to be a nonsignificant predictor of psychological distress.”
>"[W]e did not find that either approach coping or avoidance coping mediated the effect of CSA severity on the psychological distress; CSA severity was not significantly associated with coping or psychological distress."I would be less reserved towards the issue if they showed me exactly how they arrived at this conclusion and how I can independently evaluate whether they’re right.
>>2842381The mental gymnastics you guys will do is interesting
>>2842389Not really, given the lack of nuance in the debate, considering how it’s basically MeToo but for non-white proles. Made worse by how it has turned into right wing brainrot. Like, it’s all hysteria over what is essentially less than 5% of all reported CSA.
Why focus on this instead of abuses done by authority figures like cops and the ultra rich, or family members as most rapes in general are done by the relatives of the victim? Or do they count less in the eyes of the culture war sloptubers?
>>2842381Wait so this "inquiry" I've heard so much about is just some random blog post?
>>2842399
>The 12 year olds wanted to get raped!
You are pathetic man
Random blogpost, but seeing pornography online and sexualised images of women just feels like staring into some fucking existential abyss
Social media, 4chan, Reddit, they're just garbage pits for videos and images of predominantly women reducing their bodily autonomy, perception, and material self to a sexualised aesthetic in return for profit
Likewise Berger's explication of the male gaze in Ways of Seeing possesses with this a social scientific basis in its reproduction of class society under capitalism.
>>2842511While capitalism is clearly taking advantage and pushing things into extremes the truth is straight women want the "male gaze" because they are attracted to men. So women showing off will still exist after capitalism is gone.
>>2842511Thanks Starmer, now fuck off.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BT4OnXc_nqUAfter auditoid and Lowe fanboy “Young Bob” accidentally exposed the ID of rioters at Southampton, his detractors seized upon a video where he got assaulted. Details are currently murky, but based on the crowd’s reactions it seems Bob might have started it. But I might be wrong here. We’ll have to wait and see for the full details.
>>2842494Pretty much it.
>>2842508>It was raep cuz they were below the magic age line, even doe they willingly took drugs and had sex with stranger men for cash and spice, m’kayLOL you’re the pathetic one dawg. Like, hello, “grooming” is just a woke buzzword for seduction, and those women for the most part partook in it largely on a voluntary basis. This is a sexual vice issue if we’re going to be conservatives, but then again according to UK law all sex below the magic age line is tantamount to raep, so there’s that.
Plus you’ve yet to answer my points concerning transparency and methodology. The burden of proof rests on whoever made that blog post masqueraded as an “inquiry”, not me who is supposed to take whatever it claims at face value.
Still, it’s strange how no one talks about the poverty and single mom households that would have influenced these women’s decisions, and how this has turned into culture war slop by the same reactionaries that want to dismantle the very welfare state that Thatcher gutted and she is the gutter of the steel industry too. So in this case, it’s largely the capitalist policies which contributed to the poverty levels seen in north and south England.
Read:
https://xcancel.com/docrussjackson/status/1643674616014020615https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Commercial_and_online_sexual_exploitation#%22Grooming_Gang%22_ScandalsWith that said, still a pretty non-issue with unwarranted moral panic to it compared to the fate of the global economy and misandristic western family law.
>>2842648Auditoids BTFO. Honestly, I’m surprised by how little pushback these sacks of shit get given how many lives they ruined for clicks and cash. Hopefully we get to see a stink bomb thrown at them so that they won’t be able to hide themselves.
>>2842647Tbh, that’s actually the feminist argument there. After all, if “sexually exploiting” women is le bad, then clearly no measure is insufficient for feminists no matter the implications. Same goes with “sexualisation of children”, which is somewhat humorous since the only the issue is ever brought up is when it concerns girls as opposed to boys, whom can be sexualised more than girls. Almost like it’s just a Trojan horse for purity culture, hmm.
>>2842516That’s the thing tho. I think many westerners, especially Anglos, have no frame when it comes to youth and female sexualities, so when a 18 yo tries to be seductive Anglos get spooked since for them 18 is just teen so they get agitated as you’re not supposed to mix “teen” and “sex” anymore.
It’s basically Neo-Victorian purity culture, but woke.
>>2842511Ok feminazi
>>2841936As they say: “They aren’t sending their best shills anymore”
>>2842654The only thing is that it sucks since that will be used against the left. Then again, I don’t think it would get any worse considering how the anti-left sentiment among Bongchuds is already maxxed out + he is already being hated over Southampton, so maybe the fallout won’t be as bad as commonly thought. Guess there might be more details to come, although I think it would’ve been funnier if someone stole his camera or threw a stink bomb on his head.
>>2842661Someone did steal his phone from the tripod in the first video.
>>2842669I guess I should’ve worded it better. I meant to say that it would’ve been better if the perps limited themselves to just stealing the camera as opposed to beating Bob and then steal the camera from the tripod once it fell to the ground.
Strachan Travel Ltd. enters into liquidation:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/travel-agency-plunged-liquidation-cancelled-37306288I’m surprised that it took this long, since I predicted (and got wrong) that COVID lockdowns would have driven travel agencies to the ground. I guess the current energy crisis will be the thing that breaks the camel’s back.
>>2842669Local sources say that was a member of the SWP who did that.
>>2842676Rare SWP W
I'm sure he got told off by his cell leader for launching the revolution early
>>2842675brummies say 'mom'
>>2842671I disagree completely. The left should look militant. Of course some people will clutch pearls over it but a group beating of some dickhead who is harassing women is 100% proletarian and based, and will get much more sympathy from the public than a twatty phone nicking and running off
>>2842681In that sense I agree. If there’s one thing the modern chud is afraid of, is a competent militant leftist capable of using guns and violence to Great effects.
I mean just look at how the alt-right reacted to Kirk’s murder. The same alt-right that meme’d and glorified terrorists and mass shooters like Brenton Tarrant, Anders Breivik, Timothy McVeigh, Elliot Rodger, Anton Lundin Pettersson, David James Copeland, Thomas Alexander Mair, and many others, on the top of mocking people they hate…
Suddenly piss on their collective panties over Kirk’s death, with vulgar edgelords like Nick Fuentes and Matt Forney calling for a police state over this, and being literal Karens over anyone who didn’t abide with the hagiography of st Kirk, the patron saint of grifters.
Even if you don’t think Tyler Robinson murdered Charlie Kirk, the fact that many chuds did and what their pants is proof that at the end of the day, for all of their bravado, chuds are cowards and would definitely submit if they were confronted with a militant left.
>>2842089The new SJWs lmao. Basic right-wing flashpoint.
>>2842511>in return for profitMost barely make a dime. They do it for attention and as a fetish mainly.
>>2842648>>2842654Couldn't of happened to a more deserving person. We need more of this tbqh.
>>2842720The social system itself is just orientated towards the extraction of profit even if they barely turn revenue
>>2842720>>2842761It's the reproduction of society through fetishism and technical engineering designed to solicit views for the purposes of advertising and marketing of what are essentially brands (influencers)
It's a surprise nobody has written about this from a materialist perspective yet
>>2842763It will obviously fail due to contradictory interests + the fact that it’s held together solely by hatred, and coalitions based on emotions are often the least stable.
>>2842763I knew they hated trans but how many people on mumsnet are going “AH CAN’T BELIEVE ME SON IS A POOFTA”
>>2842763Labour don't want to prevent fascism, they want to implement it. This is why Labour voters have abandoned them.
>>2842056You obviously can't compromise with the bourgeois, who wants to endlessly extract more and more surplus-value no matter the costs on others. If policies which harm that extraction are enacted, even if such policies and their defenders don't want to abolish the current mode of production, than the bourgeois will use the the State (which is a tool to protect its interests) to stamp out those policies or limit their effect. It will use the media to slander those who wish to limit the exploitation of workers under wage labor (emphasis on the word limit).
Also, any reform or policy which is put in place can easily be snuffed away from you when seen fit (e.g. Roe v Wade, secondary action being made illegal in the UK in 1980/1990 despite being legalized in 1946). Read "Party and Class" by Bordiga or, more importantly, "State and Revolution" by Lenin, if you haven't. The revolution cannot be attained with bourgeois parliamentary politics.
>>2842994You can compromise with them when the alternative is worse. If we imagine for example that one side wants WW3, a reasonable compromise can be reached with the elements of the bourgeoisie that face being wiped out. It entails further exploitation but avoids outright death for proles and losses for that part of the bourg.
The real problem is that the left is in no place to offer such compromises, having already been crushed and proven useless at rebuilding.
>>2843047>Abolish the monarchy Too scared to say the rest
>>2842686>Suddenly piss on their collective panties over Kirk’s death … for all of their bravado, chuds are cowards and would definitely submit if they were confronted with a militant left.Eh, never underestimate your enemy. Thing with Kirk getting got is that it was by a completely random person who seemingly came out of "nowhere." There's something about that which produces a weird mixture of rage but also a feeling of helplessness, because what are they going to do. Some people started using the word "stochastic terrorism" to refer to right-wing violence that is produced more or less statistically from an ambience of extreme rhetoric. But don't assume your specific group on the street can't get beaten up by chuds.
>>2843011
This is why Restore will win
>>2843189Why, because a child was sexually exploited and had their arse branded?
What about the millions living in poverty?
>>2843206When the deportations happen even less will be in poverty
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2843236Yeah they'll be in extreme poverty
>>2843206Oi, you got a loicense for that pepper spray, mate?
>>2843245fyi all that money from India was funneled into fighting the Nazis after which they lost their empire. Britain is nothing but a giant money laundering scam for multinational companies now, not some promised land of opportunity.
>>2843011>>2843189Ofc it will when bongland has reactionaries obsessed with Qanon-type pedophobic slop, on the top of Restore being backed by a literal nazi trillionaire, not to mention the world’s richest man and owner of X’itter. That is, unless Starmer or Bunrham do something to ensure Britain’s sovereignty from being trampled over by oligarchs. Because let’s face it, Musk has been trying to incite civil war in the UK for a long while, the reasons for which are currently unknown.
With that being said, this vulgar obsession with specific lurid but infrequent sex crimes among chuds reminds me of how most of the European upper-class during Hitler’s childhood rejected anti-semitism less out of principle and more out of disdain for actual anti-semites, many of whom were lumpen spouting low-brow smut about Jewish men pimping out shiksas to NYC and elsewhere.
>>2843236>>2843242If that’s the goal, might as well push for voluntary human extinction. After all, zero humans = zero poverty :)
>>2843251Well, the British empire does live on. But less as an actual empire and more as an underground network of financial trade. It’s often forgotten how the concentration of oligarchs and wealth inequality in London leads it to having higher living costs compared to other British cities.
>>2843029A compromise would only delay the social revolution and confuse the workers on which side they should support, bourgeois democracy or the abolition of their chains. What the communist movement must do is focus on rebuilding itself and, this may seem flimsy because it is, enact communist social relations when any sort of mass struggle erupts, preferably class struggle.
Of course, I do not want to be like "wait until the final day of judgement comes" but compromise won't work. Its a band-aid put on an open wound by a sadistic doctor. Like I said before, such compromises are temporary. We should not be wasting our time and energy on trying to find an agreement between us and our class enemies, the ones who got us in this mess in the first place. We should instead, like I said before, be focused on finding ways to subvert the power of capital.
Just because the other slave owner doesn't hate gays (which I know isn't your whole argument for compromise) doesn't mean that he won't whip you and whip those more impoverished than you, such as the workers in South America or Africa to name a few.
>>2843255>an underground network of financial trade.Almost none of which is trickling down to the greater UK economy. Yet immigrants seem to think that the stolen wealth from an empire that died decades ago is just sitting there for them to take back. But that wealth is no longer there which is why immigrants are lured in and squeezed.
>>2843272Almost like America!
Reminds me of someone who said to me that America nowadays isn’t even a nation, let alone a country. It’s just one massive free economic zone ruled by a plutocracy where newer immigrants get fleeced by older ones, and the cycle repeating in what can only be described as the biggest and most successful Ponzi scheme in history. So much for American Dream LOL
Anyway, has anyone noticed how there’s been a cargo cult concerning emigration on British social media? I think that might explain the huge number of Bongs in the UAE prior to the outbreak of Trump’s current war against Iran.
You know I think a force armed with longbows could probably reasonably fight the security forces to a stand-still as long as urban guerrilla tactics are employed.
What happened to the Phrygian cap and Technocracy dudes? Did they take a vacation or what?
They used to be constant posters on leftybritpol
>>2843451
I do not care because there is nothing intellectual in it. When you look at (say) child poverty, there's a big tangled web of causal factors and possible solutions. Maybe they need communism, maybe they need microfinance loans for women owned businesses, maybe they need sweatshops. You can get a lot of interesting ideas, debate, and discussion out of that. You can't get anything of any interest whatsoever out of rape gangs. "That's bad", or, if you're sick of people bringing it up, "I don't care", or if you're on the wind up, "that's good". You see people having more intellectual conversations with their dogs.
Because I do not care, it does not engage my mind enough to feel any kind of disgust reaction. We already know that communists have a lower innate disgust reaction than conservatives, but it would stand to reason that as a result they're also less likely to seek out feelings of disgust. (Contrarily, higher feelings of empathy and a higher enjoyment of intellectualising things. That's why the left has great big structural theories about able bodied privilege and the right has conspiracy theories about Jews, pedophiles, and Jewish pedophiles.)
At the end of the day politics is all about personalities: I like interesting ideas rather than getting furious, sitting at home pondering whether the USSR could've been saved or whether the minimum wage is the optimal way to achieve this or that, so I'm a leftist. Others like lurid descriptions of foreigners raping people that justify fantasies of extreme violence meted out by either the state or lynch mobs, so they are rightists.
Anyway, 14 garment workers were killed in road accidents while illegally transporting garments in Cambodia. If only they had communism, microfinance, an affordable multimodal public transport network linking walkable neighbourhoods, free movement to become Fish Amok sellers in Basingstoke… That's a tragedy I can really get my teeth into.
>>2843530>mass child rape>"i don't care"t. communist
>>2843532Solution to these crimes was always to increase: social services, monitoring of children, regular medical checks of minors, police training and resources for dealing with rape cases. But those common measures aren't sensational enough and raises taxes so people don't support them until it's too late.
>>2843548Do you even know who to mass kill? And I don't mean random browns but the specific criminals who committed these crimes.
Also I care about stopping these types of crimes just like all violent crimes. The obvious solution was to prevent them from happening in the first place but literally every single step I outlined was stopped by rightoids because it would raise billionaire taxes.
>>2843552Leftists deliberatetly import and safeguard foreign rapists, leftists judges let them off the hook for rape, leftists politicians pretend this isn't happening, but some guy voting for less taxes to social services is the problem
>>2843557>Leftists Generic vague term where you include capitalist liberals.
Communists in the west don't have the power to import or deport anyone, they are have no judges and have no political power. China does have communist party in charge and they would not let this shit slide.
As for handling crimes you either devote enough resources to preventing crimes and then dealing with criminals. So under in a capitalist society you either use taxes to hire the officials to deal with these situations or the you cut taxes and then crimes increase. The math isn't difficult.
>>2843532>>2843548>>2843557LOL nice try Karenoid, but your big titty bitch histrionics won’t move anybody here at all. The fate of the global economy and the issue of child poverty, proliferation of single mother households, living costs and oligarchic influence in politics is far more pressing than your culture war BS.
And honestly? The casting of Warner Bros. Supergirl affects me emotionally far more than the <5% of CSA cases which you chuds have been moralfagging as le new 6 gorillion.
In all seriousness though, read this to get a better understanding of the issue you’re moralfagging over:
https://xcancel.com/docrussjackson/status/1643674616014020615If that isn’t convincing, read this article from your own ilk:
https://archive.is/VzwkEP.S.: Nazis don’t get to claim the moral high ground on chald raep (something they can’t even define) when they largely went silent or even defended Epstein by aurafarming the heck out of him, as well as glorifying serial child rapists like Oskar Dirlewanger.
Still, it’s hilarious how much under every Nazi lies a shitlib, considering how back in the “based” past rape was essentially treated as a violation of private property contingent on citizenship, as opposed to the feminist notion of “consent violation” which is quite modern.
>>2843562There’s no point with engaging in glownonymous. They’re just a bad faith troll trying to derail the discussion with emotionally-charged waffling.
And the whole “kill all criminals” thing is an extension of retributive justice and the support for the death penalty which I usually find distasteful since more often than not its advocates rely heavily on idealism and appeals to emotions.
Beyond treason and for recidivist criminals, I don’t see any appeal for the death penalty, especially since any government can use it to execute dissenters. And with a GOP-leaning unprincipled SCOTUS, I doubt previous precedents will stop republicans from increasingly expanding capital punishments onto non-fatal offences beyond treason.
Now, there are cases where preventative justice and rehabilitative justice can be justified, but it’s just a fact that child poverty and dysfunctional families lead to a greater likelihood for CSE. Various studies have been conducted showing that family background contributes to more harm than the sexual act itself:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/370523396_Perceived_Parental_Attachment_and_Psychological_Distress_Among_Child_Sexual_Abuse_Survivors_The_Mediating_Role_of_Coping_StrategiesSo I do think the reason behind the right wing’s attempt to push this moral panic down everyone’s throat is to both shield the families from scrutiny and to push stranger danger which would redirect public focus onto hysteria for the other as opposed to inwards towards the very institution of the family that contards love to pedestalise.
Besides trying to galvanise the public towards bigotry via cheap shots at lurid sensationalised sex crimes, there’s the fact that many young male chuds DGAF about child safety as much as being more easily prone to outrage and disgust (as one user ITT pointed out) on the top of pushing a sexual hierarchy that favours them by demonising other male sexualities whilst favoring theirs. Hence why many of them don’t care about Epstein whilst constantly moralfagging over the occasional brown or white gay pedophile.
That’s why I refer to it as a moral panic: Not because it never happened, but because the scale and extent has been greatly exaggerated to the point of distortion by chuds who politicised the subject for their own gains and to distance it from broader issues of family dysfunction and child poverty.
I think this also shows why chuds are basically liberal: Much of their discourse on the matter is based less around treating systemic issues but moreso over recognised victimhood.
Though it becomes a bit of a boring debate over whether all problems can be attributed to individual agency or to society. The individual is very obviously a product of society, innate drives and impulses not withstanding. What I think is notable is that the term victim has special legal status and typically involves not systemic neglect and oppression but mistreatment by an individual or singular corporate/state agency.
One of the reasons that victimhood is very popular is it assigns unique individual worth and experience to suffering and provides a concrete legal claim. Fired from your job for extremely arbitrary reasons or a bad economy? You have no special victim status. Fired because you were a woman or gay/trans, or black? You do have special victim status. Its important not to stay too much mentally in the 2010s though, some conservatives have been successful arguing about reverse discrimination in the legal system.
It explains a lot about identity politics on both sides that the reaction to woke was to try to create a specific form white young male conservative grievance, even if it doesn’t collectively affect them such as the moral panic over “gruming gangz” (the extent of which has been exaggerated to the point of mythology, such as the “1 million rapes” which in itself is based purely on political extrapolation as opposed to hard data).
The current backwards movement means that special legal allocations/considerations for minority groups are less enforceable. They already weren't particularly binding but often were felt to be so bc of high profile cases and corporate HR rhetoric.
Victimhood tried to address social ills through individualistic narrative and legalistic litigation which still broadly focuses on the individual even if social groups are considered. The point of Civil Rights law wasn't to undo liberalism but to provide special consideration to those prior liberal states had systemically discriminated against Mission creep was obviously a factor as it often is but its notable that the justices felt that once systemically created injustices were addressed such forms of "positive discrimination" would no longer be needed.
>>2843562>Generic vague term where you include capitalist liberals.You're all the same thing. Supporting replacement migration and the crimes committed by foreigners is the only hardline common policies leftists refuse to buldge on and that's been the MO of every state in the West for the past century. For example Keir Starmer was a Trotskyist and oversaw over 10k cases with rapefugees that he all let go. You're all one big cancer to everything that's decent.
>China does have communist party in charge and they would not let this shit slide.That's cuz they're actually fascists.
>>2843563>calling >>2843567This is all just dancing around the elpehant in the room which is that there is a state sanctioned mass rape of populace by foreigners deliberatetly imported for that very purpose and leftists (as well as most conservatives) are complicit in this.
>>2843568Still shitbait you dumb shitlib. Also, I love how you ignored my points and went straight to screeching about “mass raeps” like the typical radfem LOL
Guess my arguments were too strong for you chudboi to handle. Not that it’s a you-problem, since contards in general are shit at debating anyone other than low-info morons.
Also:
>This is all just dancing around the elpehant (sic) in the room which is that there is a state sanctioned mass rape of populace by foreignersCare to provide empirical evidence for that beyond muh feelz?
Also, can you tell me why we should focus on stranger rape as opposed to the statistically bigger issue of familial rape and child-to-child CSA which is overwhelmingly done among siblings?
>>2843570You aren't worth responding to besides being spat on.
>>2843572>You aren't worth responding toThat’s just a cope for the fact that you’ve literally got zero argument besides emotional manipulation.
Jeez, you glowies need to get better at derailment. This is the shittiest bait I’ve ever encountered, you wouldn’t even be able to convince a PTSD-ridden basement-dwelling dork to commit a school shooting with bait this bad LMAO!
As they say: “Glowies aren’t sending their best”
The competency crisis must have hit MI5 really hard in recent years if they can’t even derail the thread of some minute board.
>>2843567>but it’s just a fact that child poverty and dysfunctional families lead to a greater likelihood for CSERight and state intervention and monitoring would counteract this.
>shield the families from scrutiny and to push stranger danger which would redirect public focus onto hysteria100%
>>2843568>You're all the same thing.No.
>that's been the MO of every state in the West for the past century.The same west that fought tooth and nail to destroy the USSR. Well rightoids won and are now facing the consequences. Of course they are so brainwashed they blame the commies who have no power in the west.
>Starmer was a TrotskyistWho was behind the the death of Trotsky again?
>That's cuz they're actually fascists.The ML communist party is actually fascist? Anarkiddie nonsense.
>>2843578>The same west that fought tooth and nail to destroy the USSR. Well rightoids won and are now facing the consequences.Literally what the fuck are you talking about??? US and Allies sided WITH the USSR AGAINST Fascism and then we (rightoids) lost. 13 year olds know this.
>commies who have no power in the westThere are communists judges, politicians & professors in charge of their respective fields as we speak. The entire upper echelon of accademia has been staffed with leftoids who feel perfectly comfortable flirting with your rotten ideas. Every fucking political party, from green shitlibs to christians conservatives, explicitly keep banding with each other just to prevent the nationalists from gaining 51%. Every fucking media outlet is staffed by leftists who bat on behalf of this rotten status quo non-stop. Every fucking NGO get's state grants payed with taxes to keep their degenerate client list employed. You won and now life is hell, congrats.
>The ML communist party is actually fascist? Anarkiddie nonsense.Capistalists economy with strong single party state control which all upper-level industrialists must adhere to, unions illegal, trading allowed with oversight, secular & nationalistic. Idk man, sounds fascistic to me.
>>2843530>When you look at (say) child poverty, there's a big tangled web of causal factors and possible solutions. No, there isn't. We eradicated childhood poverty in several white before mass immigration, and it was re-introduced via mass immigration. This took the shape in two forms, the migrants wasting the welfare they received and their children living in poverty anyway, and the fraud and crime by migrants making places poor.
>That's why the left has great big structural theories about able bodied privilege Those are grifts, they have no explanatory power, they are only useful for NGOs and political activist to get power and funding, they are not used by anyone doing anything real. You're a narcissist who thinks you understand everything because of you subscribe to some youtube essayist and read world salad articles.
>>2843582>Literally what the fuck are you talking about??? The Cold War. In reality it was several hot wars between the capitalist west lead by the USA and the communist east lead by the USSR with both using proxies around the world.
>There are communists judges, politicians & professors in charge of their respective fields as we speak. And yet capitalist billionaires and markets still exist. Maybe theses communists are not as powerful or pervasive as you think if they can't even take care of communism's class enemies.
>You won and now life is hellThe west won the cold war with the USSR…
>Capistalists economy with strong single party state control which all upper-level industrialists must adhere to, unions illegal, trading allowed with oversight, secular & nationalistic. Idk man, sounds fascistic to me.This is just successful authoritarianism applied to modern society. Several governments, including some centralized states in the middle ages, have done this. Not all of them are fascist. Main difference is CPC's stated intent is to overcome capitalism and institute communism. Fascism's stated intent is about racial supremacy and the eventual extermination of all other races. Economic control of markets is besides the point.
>>2843589>You're a narcissist who thinks you understand everything because of you subscribe to some youtube essayist and read world salad articles.The irony of you chuds saying that when your entire worldview is created by Epstein, AI slop, southeast Asian bot farms, sloptubers like Asmongold and the broader oligarchic media, including the ChudIntern mockingbird influencer network, and still have the gall to pretend that consooming billionaire-funded media is “critical thinking”.
Goddammit, y’all are the biggest argument against universal suffrage liberal democracy.
>>2843582Given that Trump and Musk are in charge of the Globalist American Empire, you’re just being delusional due to years of having your brain melted by /pol/
Touch some grass boi.
Also, what do you think should be the ideal AoC? Just asking.
Guys, stop cluttering this thread, go to
>>2843569 to continue your bickering.
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