Piece in our times edition
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>>2827380
>Pakistan’s Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif says US-Iran “peace deal” has been reached and is “now in place” with the signing ceremony scheduled for June 19 in Switzerland.>Trump confirms the ceasefire agreement with Iran “is now complete”, announcing the end to the US naval blockade in the Strait of Hormuz.award status?
"all i am saying is give piss a chance"- drumbf
Is it officially over or is this ceasefire another smokeshow for more bombings
iran should airstrike the white house
>>2840368It sounds like trump gave up last second concessions to get the deal, because he has a very important event tonight that would be embarrassing to miss. I doubt he will actually control israel in the required way tomorrow, Iran is probably in a weaker position
>>2840386Withdrawing from Lebanon is part of the deal though.
>>2840386Based
Fuck proles, this is my geopol chess larp (I live in a two story house in LA)
Is Israel allowing it this time?
Iran and Hezbollah must not demobolize. They must remain active and vigilant. Ready to resume fighting at a moments notice. USA-Israel cannot be trusted.
>>2840402>USA-Israel cannot be trustedCuckmeni thinks otherwise. If only he'd listen to Timmy over here
>>2840402Gonna need to see the text, first.
>>2840395>haha, you're a privileged firstie!What an odd thing for a "leftcom" to post.
>>2840405>leftcomYou mean like all the communists active in Iran today? Or the resident Mexican and Iraqi leftcoms?
>>2840410No, the resident glowies pretending to be leftcoms.
>>2840412Thank you, "a group of communist activists in Iran".
>UWFPALESTINE.COM>Domains By Proxy, LLCAs if I expected anything else.
Can't wait for Iran to post the text of the agreement and it's just American humiliation ritual. What will glowies do next? Livestream their suicide? I fucking wish.
Keep spamming the one thing over and over, as if that worked so well in the Ukraine thread.
>>2840437iran released it. first pic is the terms, second pic is hebrew media malding about it
> Why is this agreement a strategic disaster? The Americans are giving the Iranians quite a bit - and getting nothing in return. The most bizarre thing is that this war is ending with the easing of sanctions on oil sales. Something that wasn't there before the war. What are the Americans getting? Nothing. No nuclear, no ballistic, no proxy https://t.co/eN2AB7DZiK(shortened URL since links in farsi look fucked up)
>>2840437Time to let go of campism and Multipolarism bro.
>>2840441>talks on nuclear issueshaving nuclear weapons is more important than ever for Iran (and every country on earth). they should not enter a new nuclear deal.
— 🇺🇸/🇮🇷 The Iran-U.S. Memorandum of Understanding: Full Details
Phase 1 | Upon announcement of the MoU (effective immediately):
– Upon announcement of the MoU, both sides declare an immediate, complete and permanent end to all hostilities in the region, including Lebanon.
– Upon announcement of the MoU, the United States declares the immediate and complete lifting of the U.S. naval blockade against Iran.
Phase 2 | After Signing of the MoU (30-day period):
– Upon signing the MoU, the United States confirms its commitment to non-interference in Iran’s domestic affairs and respect for the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
– Upon signing the MoU, the United States affirms that it will not increase the amount of troops or military assets present in the region, nor impose any new sanctions during the negotiations.
– Upon signing the MoU, Iran reaffirms its commitment to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and confirms that it will never produce, develop, or acquire a nuclear weapon.
– Upon signing the MoU, the United States declares that it will provide Iran with half of its frozen funds, amounting to a value of $12 Billion, to be made available in a non-reversible manner within 30 days, with a commitment to make the remaining half available during the subsequent 60 days.
– Upon signing the MoU, the United States will issue sanctions waivers for Iranian oil, gas, and petrochemical exports, effective immediately, with a commitment to extend these waivers permanently once a final agreement is reached.
– Upon signing the MoU, the U.S. will begin immediate consultations with Israel to present a short term timeframe for a full Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, including points occupied following the 2024 Israel-Hezbollah agreement.
– Upon signing the MoU, Iran confirms it will reopen the Strait of Hormuz to commercial maritime traffic, according to certain specified arrangements determined by Iran, within 30 days.
Phase 3 | Negotiations on a Final Deal (60-day period + possible extension):
– The 60-day negotiating period will begin once all the terms of the MoU have been met in the previous 30 days.
– The 60-day negotiating period can be extended by mutual agreement of both parties.
– During these 60 days, the U.S. will make the remaining $12 Billion of Iran’s frozen assets available.
– During these 60 days, the U.S. will present plans for a reconstruction fund for Iran, amounting to a value of at least $300 Billion, funded partially by Gulf states.
– The U.S. and Iran will begin detailed discussions on a permanent solution to nuclear-related matters, including enrichment, the existing uranium stockpile, and the fate of the nuclear sites.
– The U.S. and Iran will begin detailed discussions regarding the lifting of all economic sanctions on Iran, including primary, secondary, U.S. and UN sanctions, as well as the withdrawal of all UN Security Council and IAEA Board of Governors resolutions against Iran.
– A monitoring mechanism will be established to supervise the implementation of a final agreement.
– The final agreement will be approved by a UN Security Council Resolution.
>>2840450Undeniable Iranian victory. They literally didn't have to give up anything.
>>2840450total imperialist humiliation
>– During these 60 days, the U.S. will present plans for a reconstruction fund for Iran, amounting to a value of at least $300 Billion, funded partially by Gulf states.
>funded partially by Gulf states.
How cucked can gulfcels be
>>2840450Only based thing here is Pissrahell fucking off from Lebanon, the rest is only good if you're an Iranian/AmeriKKKan oil porky because your stonks are going to increase their value.
>Iran reaffirms its commitment to the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and confirms that it will never produce, develop, or acquire a nuclear weapon.Extremely CUCKed if true.
>>2840460It will be pretty good for ordinary Iranians who no longer have to suffer under sanctions.
>>2840459Rebuilding shit that Iran and Israel blow up is great for gulf real state porkies.
>>2840460iranians were never getting nukes anyway because of religious bullshit (the fatwa)
>>2840460>Extremely CUCKed if true.they already agreed to do that in obamas JCPOA. clearly that commitment wasn't good enough for israel or we wouldn't be in this mess
>>2840462>damage that will take 10 years to repair in an industry already being eclipsed by chinas subsidized solar exports is actually good for oil porkyretard
>>2840464They also already signed the NPT so they're just agreeing to do something they were already doing.
>>2840466>damage that will take 10 years to repair The longer it takes to build the more money they get. It's construction business 101.
>>2840468get this stinky bait outta here
>>2840450This is a tremendous historic opportunity to assert their right to nuclear development. To re-commit to the NPT is a colossal mistake.
>>2840460Well, clearly Trump/Israel in the past thought it wasn't good enough, cause this is roughly what the JCPOA was before it was torn up.
>>2840450>complete and permanent end to all hostilities in the region, including Lebanon.It's cooked lol
Israel ain't following that shit
>>2840480Israel literally said it wouldn't stop its invasion
>>2840483Ya Israel has always been the biggest obstacle to peace in the region, they refuse to follow any ceasefire agreements or treaties.
They want Greater Israel badly and won't let anyone get in the way. And they get away with it because Murikuh bails them out every time.
>>2840490>10 hours agolol
>>2840490No one was ever on Iran's side. Same with Cuba. China props up the US.
So did Iran win?
>>2840493Depends on Israel's actions.
>>2840493so long as they still have the uranium
>>2840495Basically. At the very, very least the US isn't gonna overtly fuck with them for a while.
>>2840490Pretty much nobody was materially on their side to begin with, and those that were sympathetic (Russia, China) aren't going to switch sides just because Iran closed the strait. The fact that the US would even agree to all this shows that the Americans are pretty desperate to avoid a resumption of fighting. The imperialists lost, simple as.
>>2840483They will if the Americans force them to, just like what Reagan did in the 80s.
>>2840493its the same deal as obama but iran gets more money.
art of the deal baby
>>2840441>Memorandum of Understanding>I don't understandIs he actually giving Iran almost everything they want?
>>2840442Time to neck yourself or it will be done for you.
>>2840502
I'm skeptical of that. Their main influence is in Congress, but this is an executive matter, and the foreign policy and security apparatus has always been far less sympathetic to them. Israeli influence is undeniably strong but I don't think they're capable of overriding the interests of US imperialism as a whole. Certainly Trump is the kind of person to tell them off if he feels they've bruised his ego.
>>2840509People were calling it America's Suez Crisis, and I was skeptical before but I think they may have been right.
>>2840442>muh campism>muh multipolarismwill create the conditions for proletarian revolution in the imperial core
>>2840510US can always just say PSYCH!, and nuke Iran. Seems much more likely than this utter humiliation going through. I don't even want to imagine the midterms savaging Republicans are going to get. Nobody wants to be seen next to a loser.
in any case, what are the chances israel fucks it up?
>>2840518100%
The actual question is - what is the US going to do?
I'm not gonna believe a deal is final until it's signed before the UN
>>2840517A nuke would still be a humiliation though since it would be an admission that they couldn't accomplish their goals without it.
>>2840519If Trump cucks out for israel again it might actually be over
>>2840450Can you please post a fucking source
>>2840528United States Navy. Safeguarding free navigation of trade is its actual job. This whole thing is literally the nail that the hammer was meant for.
>>2840517>US can always just say PSYCH!, and nuke Iran.it doesn't matter for the purposes of policing international trade, that's the real reason why they haven't nuked anything. they just can't bomb enough to ensure safe transit and they risk setting back the oil market, potentially forever.
>>2840529idk what that anon's source is but:
>According to the Iranian news agency Mehr, the draft agreement contains 14 points.
>It includes: a permanent and immediate cessation of hostilities on all fronts, including Lebanon; the complete lifting of the naval blockade within 30 days; a US commitment to withdraw its forces from around Iran; and the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz.
>The draft also mentions the suspension of sanctions on oil sales, reaching a final agreement on nuclear issues within 60 days of signing the deal, and the release of $24bn in frozen Iranian assets during the 60-day negotiation period.
>Mehr also reported that final negotiations would not begin until half of Iran’s frozen assets had been released and restrictions affecting the Strait of Hormuz had been lifted.
>Discussions concerning Iran’s missile programme and its support for resistance groups have been removed from the negotiating agenda, it added.seems to match up.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/6/15/us-iran-to-sign-a-peace-deal-on-friday-what-we-know-so-far >>2840519>>2840527>The actual question is - what is the US going to do?He agreed to sign on fucking Friday so Trump is absolutely going to 100% let Israel spoil the deal. Remember, each time oil futures go down, Trump takes it as signal that he can kick the can towards the next week.
>>2840517if any country gets nuked in the coming super saiyan el niño or in the seasons around that then we're gonna have an ecological collapse of the likes that nobody has ever fucking seen
Gaza will erupt in celebration now that Iranian boog got their Swiss assets unfrozen.
>>2840532I don't doubt that it's true, I just don't want to have to say I got this from an imageboard
6 million Jews didn't die in the Holocaust just for Trump to surrender to Iran
Inter-imperialist conflict?
Why doesn't the US just launche a ground invasion already, take out tehran, and claim victory.
Like seriouly doe, if the entire point is to destablize iran and stop them as a threat why dont they just send some mutts in through turkey and capture iran and cause a civil war and just ignore it. They don't have nukes so theres nothing to worry about either
>>2840566Are there anybody who are surprised by this. Israel boots on the ground in Lebanon is their veto in a peace deal that they fear.
Like the point is really about this other shit. We've got to bomb this shitty country so we can feel great about ourselves. Foreign policy is a projection of domestic contradictions. This is true everywhere BTW.
>>2840684my favorite part is where OP started praising hitler
>>2840684The average Israeli just can't help praising Hitler can they?
>>2840684All nationalists deserve the fell for it again award but Israeli nationalists especially geg. Nearly every action of the Israeli government in the last decade has blown up in its face
>>2840514NTA but mutipolarity may well have positive effects on socialist organizing. The issue is that campists feel like they're part of the same political movement as random reactionary governments whose interests at a particular moment align against the US, and therefore critically support them. But they're objectively not on the team and socialist organizing necessarily has to originate with their work in their own countries, so feigning dependence on Iran or Russia as if that's going to help is pointless and counterproductive intellectually, because you end up defending shit like the protest crackdowns in Iran because the Mossad xeeted that the Shah is coming back
>victim of imperialist aggression gets war reparations from aggressor
<this is exactly the same as imperialist cooperation
literal children in this thread
>>2840717not a euphemism, qualitatively different
>>2840386Remember when the Hamas-approved Trump's Gaza ceasefire terms came out and all of which focused on facilitating multinational investments (le leftcoms were le right!?) and leftists all hailed it asvictory when it is codified enslavement of genocide victims?
Getting deja vu here
>>2840422>heh… filthy browns won't even give their address to the AES frikcorpsI like how you can't even muster the courage to call them LE MOSSAD when the website is anti-zionist united front that includes Palestinians unions L M A O
Why organized workers in Palestine support Iranian communists over the islamist bourgeoisie?? Few bombs on their unions should enlighten them to the glory of western leftism
>>2840773the iranian government literally says death toll was in the thousands lol. the state dept claimed it was tens of thousands
>>2840773>Khamenei is the US state department>>2840775I'm sure most are busy starving or getting raided to care about your inter-imperialist dealings
Islamic fetishism is so funny when in Iran religion is crumbling down lmao.
>>2840783>only 3000 dead from a supposed country-wide protest in a country of 92 million under siege and sanction, while food is scarce and under military threat, not including the cause of death in the reportsyeah dude le evul and both sides are actually the same and I'm very smart
>>2840783an atrocity is an atrocity
even if 1000 were soldiers and 1000 were mossad agents (lol), that's still a 1000 people killed for protesting. leftypolacks cry civil war when one woman is shot by an ice agent but when iranians rebel against a neoliberal hybrid regime it's fine to kill them?
>>2840783cuckmenei explicitly said the 'thousands' were 'protesters' but he shifted the blame to 'unknown gunmen' (ie undercover IRGC death squads)
The regime is so cucked the official narrative is the protest massacres took place and were bad but the Mossad actually killed the anti-regime protesters… for reasons
Somebody should've gave you the memo retard
>>2840792I just don't see how this is related to the war against the USA. Are you implying that wishing for the USA to be defeated by the Iranian regime is a statement of full throated support of everything they do?
Do you think that if the USA would have won the war, then the dozen or so Iranian communists would have been able to overthrow the government AND defend against US and Israel aggression?
Because I don't see anyone in this thread saying that the Iranian regime is communist.
>>2840790>Palestinians owe their lives to Iran for selling oil to Israel for 2 decades then doing nothing as they get genocided, then get cucked by their former western allies and get cuckmenei bombed anywaychimp-brained
literally iranian monarchist talking point about how ungrateful palis are the regime that exploits their genocide for PR points xd
>>2840793that was not implied lol
Even the most Islamist brained Gazan petite bourgeoise have better opinion of ErDOGan than they do of cuckmenei
Gazans gave away the few sweets they have as Assad regime collapsed and cucktollah died
>>2840798Iran has helped the palestinians ever since the revolution what the fuck are you talking about lmao
resident mossad glowie pretending to be an ultra in the Iran thread part 30/9999999
>>2840803He is a mossad glowie anon ignore him
>>2840809You're just listing off random things Iran did that you didn't like lol. And putting the US-Iran deal in there is fucking stupid like… are you dense? What does that have to do with the Palestinians?
Throughout their ENTIRE HISTORY, SINCE THE REVOLUTION, Iran has supported Palestinian statehood, and sent aid nonstop. You have not disproven that point. What you have instead done, is point to events for which you ASSUME negatively impacted Palestinian national liberation on the whole.
You are completely incoherent
So who won?
As a Mossad agent I'm always bringing up the fact that I collaborated with my geopolitical enemies to receive oil and kill brown commies. This is in fact printed in the first page of the Tanakh.
>>2840814Vile Shlomo got me again smh
>>2840815>Iran has supported Palestinian statehood, and sent aid nonstopGlad we both agree that Iran 'did' as much for Palestinians as Qatar or Turkey (token nothing burger for PR)
Good stuff. Glad other smart people post here
>>2840817*to sell oil and get more money to buy guns for prole hunting
ultra glowie posting is probably the worst thing abt the site rn.Not even /8/leftypol was this bad with shitposters
>>2840822>>2840817Exactly. You are doing that. As a mossad agent. Good job.
>>2840824if mossad paid me for annoying campoids i'd do it
>>2840825I know you would lmao
>>2840412>the so-called "anti-imperialist struggle" claimed by the Islamic Republic is nothing but a false mask that conceals its betrayal and exploitation of Palestinian suffering. How can a regime that suppresses protests, executes dissidents, oppresses women, and impoverishes its own people be a genuine defender of Palestine? This regime, like Israel, exploits regional conflicts to entrench its own power, while secretly cooperating with the same enemies it pretends to fight. Iranian Communists >>>>>>>>>>>>> Timmy's noble savage fetish
>LE MOSSAD hates it when you privatize national resources and help the imf o algo
>>2840815>You're just listing off random things Iran did that you didn't like lolThat's all they ever do. There's never any kind of systemic analysis of the conflict, it's causes, or the implications of its outcome. It would be like just listing off every mistake, bad policy or agreement with West the USSR ever made without any context or analysis to "prove" that they were actually on the same side.
Why do leftcucks love western imperialism so much? They're always so giddy about it
>campsisters have started posting fanfics and their goon folder to own the ultras
Oh allah we are mindbroken…
>>2840838That's not the premise retard. The premise is that the decline of Western unipolar dominance will create conditions more conducive to socialism. You also haven't materially disproven anything, just pointed out that Iran and the West have cooperated in the past, as if this isnt a basic reality of geopolitics that even the USSR engaged in. Again, no analysis of the conflict, its causes, or the implications of its outcome.
Honest question: will the peace deal hold given Israeli bombing of Lebanon
>>2840850between iran and the usa? it would seem so
between iran and israel? i'd bet 3.50 it doesn't
Am I wrong for thinking this peace deal will either end with Israel and America finally severing ties, or ending with ground invasion of Iran?
>>2840847Retarded non sequitur. States have varying interests that can still line up 10% of the time even when they are opposed 90% of the time. What you are expecting us to do is ignore the 90% and not consider it in our analysis.
>>2840849>characterizing defending the iranian state as anti-imperialist actionIt is.
>accusing iranian socialists of being mossad, all in response to an image where an iranian socialist org denounces the government and the us of aI won't presume to tell Iranian socialists how to relate to class struggle in their own country. Frankly I think their situation is pretty impossible and there's no path forward for them. But I will say that Iran's victory is objectively preferable for socialism than their defeat.
>>2840857>characterizing defending the iranian state as anti-imperialist action<It is.Give me a QRD on how posting Hezbollah FPV on socialist realist embroidery forum is a form of praxis which could yield socialism in Canada and beyond
Lindsey Graham's response will be key. If he approves of it, expect a last-minute sneak attack like before.
>>2840858Its not praxis, this is a discussion forum, we're discussing the war and its implications. The defeat of Western imperialism will allow the Global South to develop on its own term, creating social conditions for socialism (proletarianization, industrialization). It will also reduce the ability of the Western ruling class to placate their own populations and undermine their legitimacy. Finally it will lead to a more divided international bourgeoisie that creates space for progressive and socialist forces to maneuver.
>>2840860If it's not praxis then what's the point of rhetorical support for the Iranian state or glowie accusations?
>>2840558You are fucking dumber than Hegseth.
>>2840864What's the point of talking about anything ever?
>>2840866I'm not talking about materialist analysis of the war. I'm talking about >muh mossad protesters/iranian socialists/ultras and support for Iran as it currently exists
Holy shit you cunts have a magical ability to shit up every thread you're in with the most irrelevant discussions and arguments known to man
>>2840882This should unironically be a bankable offense
>>2840882Conflict? iran just accepted US peace, in exchange for a few oil wells they can get back to slaughtering striking workers and foids who don't like headscarves
>>2840891>iran just accepted US peaceUS accepted Iranian terms*
>>2840865Nu uh, the war could be done in 2 weeks if Trump forced a quick capture of tehran then pulled out.
>>2840895Don't siege Leningrad
>>2840891The US accepted Iranian peace. The terms of the agreement grant massive concessions to Iran without them having to give up anything.
>>2840901not binding; will be violated in <2 weeks
>>2840904btw this was written by Parsi
Parsi who wrote extensively on the secret Iran-Israel collaboration, who today faces the threat of deportation due to his perceived pro Iran bias, leftists used to call me Mossad for citing him, now they're the ones defending him
Pure vibes
>>2840919Same place they got the trillions for Gaza and Iraq reconstruction funds (multinational fraud)
>>2840922The thousands of proles didn't die in vain… international capital is worth the sacrifice
>>2840923obama was about to give them 6 billion. oh how the turn tables
>>2840885I'd rather have a worldfilter to "anti imperialist struggle"
>>2840904>investment badimpressive level of glowie ultra discourse
>>2840932Please consult the graph
>>2840715>>2840938>things that never happened Yes
The dialectical center between the tankoid and leftkkkomoid delusion is the following. Before the American-Israeli imperialist aggression against Iran, was Iran a semi-periphery economy. But during the war, it was shown that it was actually capable to stand its own against imperialists, making Iran equal or stronger to imperialists. Thus towards the end of the war, this transformed form an imperialist aggression to an inter-imperialist conflict. The peace is the US accepting Iran's place in the sun. This is a possible 1905 for US, let's see what happens at home.
what ever happened to destroying israel?
i wanted to watch the inbreds get marched into the sea… (╥﹏╥)
If the imperialist camp has taken an L, then what camp has taken a W? food for thought (leftcom seethe I summon ye)
>>2840984Both iran and usa vvon. Proles lost.
>>2840534funnily a nuclear attack would off set some of the damage of global warming
>>2840906Then the strait will be closed again. It's the Iranians who have the leverage here. The fighting itself already proved that the Americans can neither sustain a long term campaign nor meaningfully degrade Iranian capabilities. However the simple facts of geography mean Iran can always close both the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea.
>>2841095>is essentially a half-dead "corpse king" who could still remain alive for decades. During that time, the military will likely be running the country on behalf of their God-emperor.Truly Iran is the real life Imperium of Man.
>>2841126well this peace deal was good for refilling my tank at least. heres to the foreverwar
>With Trump’s Iran deal, the October 7 wars are over. Israel really has no idea what to do next
>Netanyahu promised a new Middle East and total victory over enemies. Having failed to stop Trump’s hugely problematic Iran deal, Jerusalem is being left behind, vulnerable, in a changed region
>The post-October 7 wars, which came with expectations and promises of “total victory,” are over, as are their illusions. Palestinians are not going to leave Gaza. Hamas won’t disarm, nor will Hezbollah. Trump is not going to return to war in Iran, which can now threaten to withdraw from a deal to get Trump to stop any major Israeli operation against Hamas or Hezbollah.
>“Without meaningful progress on the Palestinian issue, Gulf leaders have little political incentive to deepen ties with Israel,” British military analyst Andrew Fox wrote on Monday. “More importantly, they have reached a sober assessment of Iran itself. Whatever damage has been inflicted on the regime, it remains the dominant power on the northern shore of the Gulf and will continue to be a permanent feature of the regional landscape. Attempts to isolate Tehran completely or force its collapse no longer seem realistic.”https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-trumps-iran-deal-the-october-7-wars-are-over-israel-really-has-no-idea-what-to-do-next/ >>2841095>The war seems to have strengthened the position of the military to such an extent that Iran is now a military-dominated state more than the clericalSo it's on its way out lmao
>>2840823All 8 had was a huge split over Rojava, and a rogue mod just wiping the entire board.
<An Iranian diplomatic mission in India cites Gharibabadi in announcing that “The immediate and permanent end of the war and all military operations on various fronts, including #Lebanon, will be announced starting tonight.”https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/irans-deputy-fm-confirms-announcement-of-immediate-and-permanent-end-of-the-war/More pumping
More dumping
>>2841160what does this mean
>>2840825Real mask-off moment. There is no real movement. No understanding of history. No desire for communism. Their politics begin and end with shitposting on an imageboard.
it seems to me if you were actually invested in a left wing movement building in Iran, the lifting of sanctions, defeat of israel, and minimization of america in the region would only be helpful in pursuing those goals
>>2841175
Do you write them in this janky semi-literate way on purpose as part of the joke or are you really just retarded?
>>2841182? I copied it from another site
>>2841185What site was that then?
>>2841161probably trying to encourage the deal to pick up momentum, make it harder for iran to walk away when israel/US starts pushing boundaries
>>2841290This will really be a moment of truth regarding the real nature of the US-Israel relationship. We'll find out if the US has the will and ability to discipline the Israelis, and whether the Israelis have the chutzpah to try this shit on their own.
>>2841335Every single "agreement" in this conflict gets broken by Israel immediately. It won't happen.
>>2841335This is literal imperialism against Oman. We must support Oman, Ukraine, Taiwan and South Korea against BRICS.
>>2840368It's obviously bullshit. This whole smoke show is just so trump can say he tried very hard for peace. Boots on the ground shortly
>>2841376Well they're still mogging hezbollians in lebanon so unless Iran gives up on them it's not over yet
>>2841151still not as annoying as the mutant leftcom sharty synthesis we have now
>>2840678Nationalism is so fucking cringe I hate it
>>2841335Please stop posting this shitty obvious clickbait source…
>>2841462When's the ground invasion, Pentachump?
>>2840728It wasn't Hamas approved Qatar said Israel and America did the old switcheroo
>>2841538Holy cope
Qatar (Hamas primary funder) is also one of the biggest contributors to the multinational fund
doenst this mean cuba will be invaded
>>2841539It's a fact there was a 20 point plan and a 10 point plan or something and they agreed to different terms.
>>2841445I want to eat a bullet just knowing what this means
Can't wait to be paying $100 to fill my 2010 Honda Fit
>>2841578What does it mean?
Inter scaryblackedwojak conflict
What are the chances this agreement goes south?
>>2840514Multipolarism killed the Paris Commune and the european revolutions of the 1910s.
>>2841821They don't because they know it and are trying to work around that right now
i just hope irakkki leftcom and other middle east comrades are having a nice day and cucklamist porky is defeated, thats all :)
>>2841878The US has demonstrated they are willing and able to fail to forcibly cut China off from oil, and that China didn't even have to fight
>>2841931>The US has demonstrated they are willing and able to fail to forcibly cut China off from oilNo they didn't. They demonstrated that they have an extremely low tolerance for the disruption of oil flows through Hormuz, such that after a few months of this they gave in and surrendered.
>>2841946>the lion don't need no amerikkka yankee go home!Lmao. Do you take everything politicians say literally?
>>2841946How does the western left cope with the fact that Trump is objectively the most anti-Zionist president in history?
>>2841878dumbest possible take
>>2841931yeah I'm sure China is quaking in their boots
>>2841952Completely by accident. He gave jews everything they asked for, the problem is jews always get greedy and overplay their hand.
>>2841952How does the western left cope with the fact that I cut my dick when the plastic in my pocket pussy broke down
>>2841964That's not something I said. It's entirely possible that Israel will stay in the war while the US officially pulls out. What I meant is their structural dependence on a foreign patron. They'd get blown up by Iran in 2 weeks were it not for American arms.
>>2841971congress has 0 power. its long since been concentrated in the executive.
>>2841975>A lot of countries lobby the USAnd yet none of them have the pull of Israel.
>>2841976Lets see how Iran's sanctions get lifted without congressional approval. And they have Trump by the balls too either way.
>>2841971who made this ai-slop fucking graph? why is there a random blue and red division drawn so that it cuts some of the circles in half?? why is there one random circle in the middle that is 60% smaller for no reason???
>>2841985>Lets see how Iran's sanctions get lifted without congressional approval. nothing has required congressional approval since clinton retard
>>2841952there is some divine comedy shit here where the most antisemetic thing you could do is give Israel everything they asked for
>>2841971Won't matter if Iran closes the strait again. They've already demonstrated they're willing to strike Israel directly in response to attacks on Lebanon.
>>2841975president aoc will mend relations
What the fuck is going to happen on the 19th? Israel is refusing to leave Lebanon so that voids the agreement. Trump is just going to show up and pretend Iran signed it too?
>>2842023There are three main questions to be answered.
- Will the Americans try to coerce the Israelis into compliance (e.g. by withholding aid)?
- Will the Isralies comply with such coercion?
- If they don't, will Iran stand by Lebanon and refuse to sign the deal?
>>2842026I think Iran just want the money first and will figure the rest out later.
>>2842030I think their first goal is self-preservation, but that requires maintaining their network of allies, of which Hezbollah is the most important. It would be very shortsighted of them to allow that network to be destroyed in exchange for promises.
>>2842017I can see it. Bibi's age will be over soon one way or another and we need to look ahead to the attempted forced PR reset for Israel that will likely be pushed by liberals. They will say all the bad stuff is Netanyahu's fault and now he's gone so Israel is good now, despite his opposition also being Zionist and criticizing him primarily on not being competent at executing the agenda.
>>2842038I would think Iran and hezbollah are perfectly content to replay the 2006 conflict if it looks like it's going that way. But I don't know if that can happen with the current political situation.
>>2842077surely they aren't gonna actually stick to this deal though right?
>>2842078I'm hearing reports that Donald Hussein Al-Floridia has received the light of Islam and unhesitatingly recited the Shahada in perfect Arabic
you guys don't actually think le deal is real, do you?
first time following some middle east shitshow?
>>2842078>>2842080I think the difference is that Iran actually has leverage. They can close the strait at any time, and the mere fact that the US would agree to such a deal means that they were obviously pretty desperate to open it. No doubt they were under enormous pressure from the GCC states and also worried about domestic political considerations. This makes it different from something like the aftermath of Vietnam, where the US reneged on war reparations and the Vietnamese had no way to enforce payment.
>>2842075you forgot
>8 years of intelligence sharing with Israel>15 years of training US proxies in Afghanistan>25 of protecting US puppets in Iraq>experienced in ethnically cleansing Palis from two (2) countries >>2842094why are yoy guys so desperate to flip this as an iranian defeat lmao.
>>2842085>They can close the strait at any timeChina will be pissed
>>2842087Remember when Trump said he could go hide in Israel because they love him there? Lmao.
>>2842085Israel and AmeriKKKa are the main belligerents and they don't give a single fuck about the oil that goes through the strait. In a saner world it'd be the yuro countries the ones putting the pressure of g-d on the great satan and the slightly less great satan to stop this shit or negotiating with the pisslamic republic by themselves but we all know 21st century yurop rolls down the gigacucked lane whenever possible, and modi too but he's taking the gigafamine genocide route as is tradition for indian rulers.
>>2842116>If Iran becomes Iraq #2 and the IRGC survives it would be short term retreat for the Iranian proletariatThe implication being that becoming a US colony would be a victory?
>on other hand, integrating Iran further into the world market will intensify class contradictions It would do the exact opposite. All the unrest that immediately preceded the war was linked to economic hardships directly resulting from sanctions. Between the sanction relief and huge reparations, Iran is poised to experience rapid economic improvement if this deal goes through. That would reduce class contradictions, not increase them.
>>2842118>Israel and AmeriKKKa are the main belligerents and they don't give a single fuck about the oil that goes through the strait. Then why sign a deal at all?
Trump eyes firing Pete Hegseth and CIA chief John Ratcliffe over Iran deal clash
https://www.themirror.com/news/breaking-trump-eyes-firing-pete-1889778The article says trump is considering firing Hegseth and CIA Director Ratcliffe for opposing his deal with Iran. A source told Israel Hayom "the debate has been settled. Anyone who opposed it could pay a personal price." Rubio appears safe because he avoided publicly criticizing the deal.
The internal split: Vance, Witkoff, and Kushner supported the deal, arguing the Iranian regime won't fall within a reasonable timeframe and Gulf states are pushing for resolution. Hegseth, Rubio, and defense/state officials argued Iran was already in decline and more pressure would force surrender or collapse. Treasury Secretary Bessent pushed back on lifting sanctions, warning they'd be hard to reinstate.
A memorandum of understanding has been reached to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, but sanctions will need to be at least partly lifted as part of it.
Lindsey Graham said that under law, any nuclear deal must go to Congress for review.
The White House aggressively denied the story, with a spokesperson calling the reporter "a clown" whose sources are "probably the voices in his head."
>>2842120>The implication being that becoming a US colony would be a victory?I'm trying to find a silver lining to the prospect of billion dollar investment fund and renewed US-Iran alliance against the Iranian proletariat. But you know it's like colonialism, it creates its own negation.
>It would do the exact oppositeSomeone should've informed the sr and jr cucktollahs who were pursuing it for decades
>>2842120>Then why sign a deal at all?It's only words on paper.
Israel and the US will try to pull a fast one once the strait is functioning again or close to and blame it on Iran when the latter retaliates or tries to close the strait again.
For me this shit is all fake and gay until several months have passed of actual normalization, until then this is just porky trying to lie and steal their way to victory in actual war once again.
TRUMP SAYS HE DID REGIME CHANGE IN SYRIA!!!
JOLANI WAS HIS CHOICE!!
HE HAD TO REMOVE THE ANTI-SEMITIC MONSTER ASSAD AND PUT IN PRO DEMOCRACY ACTIVIST JOLANI!!
https://xcancel.com/koshercockney/status/2066834347945087445#m>>2842128He also said he isn't pursuing regime change in Iran during the 12 days war and this one
much to ponder
>>2842110Trump's got a remarkable knack of alienating everyone. People like Massie and Tucker should be praising him rn, but they aren't because he told them to go fuck themselves at the start of the war. Obvious snakes like Mark Levin and Laura Loomer are crashing out and those were the people he alienated all his day ones for. It's hard to comprehend what a gift for pissing everyone off he has.
>>2842135I follow Mark Levin and loomer. They simply critique the ideas but they don't care critique trump. They always worm their way around it that trump was just tricked by advisors, since to be redirected and that it is someone else's idea.
They know how to stay off his bad side
>>2842140Retards like Tucker also say Trump was "tricked" by the people surrounding him. It's always some kind of cope with these shills.
>>2842144Tucker still direclty insults frequently. Loomer and Levin never do
They both shower him with praise constantly and target people in his cabinet non stop.
>>2842135trump alienates everyone but always get them crawling back. musk said he was in the epstein files on twitter and now they're bros again
>>2842140There's an implied threat, complete lack of loyalty, and massive entitlement in what they say, and this is after demanding everyone else be loyal to Trump.
>>2842146Bros? Nah, Musk doesn't want his contracts revoked. Trump might think Musk likes him, but Trump is a needy bitch.
>>2842126>It's only words on paper.Yeah words that effectively admit defeat. Again, if the closure of the straight wasn't harming them, then why sign any deal, let alone one so humiliating? Why not just let the conflict remain frozen indefinitely? The most likely explanation is that the closure of the strait was hurting the Americans a lot more than their bombing was hurting Iran.
>>2842124>I'm trying to find a silver lining The silver lining here is that Iran will not be made a colony of the US, it will be free to develop on its own terms (including develop its own proletarian movement without Western meddling), Western imperialism will continue to decline, the international bourgeoisie will continue to fracture, and the legitimacy of the American ruling class will be further eroded. You don't need to look for a "silver lining" here because this was objectively the best possible outcome. It was the only outcome that would improve the conditions for socialism both in Iran and the rest of the world.
>to the prospect of billion dollar investment fund It's not an investment fund. Western companies aren't carrying out the reconstruction. They are war reparations paid directly to the Iranian government to do with as they please.
>US-Iran alliance against the Iranian proletariat.Not a thing. The Iranian proletariat have a direct interest in not being subjects of neo-colonialism. If a pro-Western government came to power it would increase the obstacles to Iranian socialism rather than reduce them. They would still have a bourgeois regime to overthrow, but would now be saddled with throwing out the imperialists once again.
>Someone should've informed the sr and jr cucktollahs who were pursuing it for decadesThey were pursuing it precisely because it would reduce class conflict and make their population easier to keep happy.
Iraq's WCPI chairman (the only leftist party to oppose the 2003 invasion) in a recent interview:
>Regime change in Iran has never been on the U.S. agenda, whether publicly or privately. The war has brought to the surface the underlying mutual interests shared by the ruling classes of both states.
>>2842150>this thing isn't the thing that it is because my headcanonogey
>>2842162typical braindead leftist
>>2842162rare materialistbrained leftist
>>2842163Leftcoms are the ones who never do systemic analysis or place this conflict in a global or historical context. The only ones with headcanons are you people.
>>2842185>>2842205>>2842207Honestly the WCPI are retarded utopians but a cosmic fluke happens and they drop a truke evey once in a while. It helps that they aren't MLibs
>>2842098can anyone fact check this
>>2842218no shot that is happening.
>>2842226Allah revealed it to me
Irgh
>>2842218That aint happening.
>>2842226>>2842229most of the money is coming from the Gulf states in the form of loans, lines of credit, and investment, per the article
>>2842218Iran could destroy western economies by keeping the straight closed for a month or two more. Taking the baksheesh, which is a poisonned gift of foreign investments with string attached I might add, is tantamount to cucking out. Happily Israel will not let this go.
>>2842231as in the gulf states are toaking loans from USA-Israel and giving the money to Iran? because that's the only way that'd be good
>>2842239is the UAE suddenly not imperialist now?
>>2840815>You're just listing off random things Iran did that you didn't like lolwhat a braindead ape
>>2842128Uh-oh. Nobody tell watermelon seller about this.
>>2842422He literally just has to walk forward a few steps, is he dumb
>>2842457Haha you're so silly 'non
>>2842517>syrian NAFO >Jolani & zelensky do they have the same british PR firm
>>2842425pesci's character dies in that movie and deniro's doesn't
>>2842221>historical contextRetard, Lib AND Nationalist.
>>2842533nicky is betrayed and killed by his fellow gang members because he kept making dumb decisions which impacted their bottom line
possible foreshadowing?
>>2842221>systemic analysisFalling rate of profits
>historical context The crisis of overproduction
>globalBourgeoisie against the international proletariat
>>2842751what? no clash of civllizations? no geopol teamsports? fuck off with this made up glowie bs
>>2842747Is Kushner his Frankie Marino?
>>2842787Cheney-Bush speech bubble
On one hand the defeat of America is a good thing and will push them out of the middle east, or at least less influence. On the other hand, it means they will focus more on the western hemisphere. Trial by fire for LATAM.
>>2842828>push them out of middle eastIran approved US takeover of Iraqi oil fields two months ago doebeit
>>2842751>Falling rate of profits>Crisis of overproductionAnd that is related to the conflict how? Lenin argues that the need for constant expansion (a countervailing tendency to the falling rate of profit and a means of dealing with overproduction) is the driving force behind imperialism and imperialist wars. So what connections can we draw between this and the present war?
>Bourgeoisie against the international proletariatAnd the bourgeoisie have never fought amongst themselves? The divisions between them have never had consequences for class struggle?
>>2842876powerful, thank you for correcting the record, I guess class struggle is a mossad psyop now so I will start reporting middle east workers that complain about their exploiters and their freikorps here
>>2842828>Trial by fire for LATAM.we already lost bro lol
>>2842828brazil needs nukes more than iran does at this point
>>2842919We're entering the AU where Iran is the greatest ally of the US in the middle east and Israel the rogue state.
>>2842925Tankies will get back to being zionist in no time
>Tankies will get back to being zionist in no time
I'll take "Shit that will not happen" for 500.
>>2842927back to tankies are we? no more ultras or TWs?
>>2842876>ITS DAAAAA JUUUUUUUUICCCCCCEEEEEEE THAT'S WHY US BIBI JUST HAD HIS CHAIN PULLED LIKE A DOG AND RUINED HIS LEGACY FOREVER>>2842870Lobotomite
>>2842903>class struggle is a mossad psyopObviously not, but it can and is exploited by the US and Israel to advance their own interests which are obviously contrary to those of the Iranian proletariat.
>I will start reporting middle east workers that complain about their exploiters and their freikorps hereNothing wrong with complaining about them, nothing wrong with organizing against them. There is something wrong however with placing all the focus on them at the exact moment the country is under attack by imperialists aiming to place double chains on the very people you claim to support. If you lack the strength to offer a viable alternative to both the imperialists and the local bourgeoisie then all you're doing is strengthening the former. This is hardly an unprecedented dilemma for communists to face, being locked both in a struggle against their own bourgeoisie and a foreign aggressor simultaneously. The Chinese communists are the most obvious example of revolutionaries that handled this situation successfully. I'm sure you won't study what they did though because you won't like the answer.
>>2842087anuddah shoah and sho on
>>2842925multipolarity means every state is a 'rogue' state now, in the sense that international bourgeois harmony has been disrupted. taiwan and poland and south korea have now realizes america can't save them anymore so nukes must be acquired at all costs
>>2842876vote blue chads… are we vindicated
>>2842944>point out the struggle of workers as they get shot<heh nice color revolution mossad>point out the struggle of workers as they get bombed<heh nice psyop CIAAll war but class war
>>2842954>There is little chance the United States can produce enough missiles fast enough or reboot its shipbuilding capacity sufficiently to sustain even a fraction of its current portfolio of global commitments. Moreover, after expending so much military power on the war in the Middle East, it is not clear that there is much left for the United States to consolidate and redirect to the theaters that Mitchell defines as higher priorities, including Asia and the Western Hemisphere. amazing. Immediately thinking of when they'll be able to bomb asia and latin america.
>>2842981>agitate against a government under attack by imperialism<get called out for supporting imperialismShocking! If you were alive during Operation Barbarossa you'd spend all day talking about how hecking problematic the Soviet ban on abortion was.
>>2842944>The Chinese communists are the most obvious example of revolutionaries that handled this situation successfully.their strategy culminated in the creation of the people's stock market so I'm not sure if I consider that a success since I'm not a surplus-value extraction and financial speculation enjoyer
>>2842987>NOOOOOOO DON'T EXPRESS SOLIDARITY WITH THE PRIMARY AND INTENDED VICTIMS OF WAR METAPHYSICALLY SUPPORT ONE OF THE TWO CONSERVATIVE POWERS THAT JUST SIGNED A DEAL OVER THE BODIES OF THOUSANDS WORKERS INSTEADnah
>>2842983I mean we’re already at war with Cuba after the Venezuela coup, having a botched, Iraq style occupation of Cuba probably would be the last straw on the camel’s back before climate change and pent up rage erupts and you have an American years of lead/troubles, you can argue that’s been the case since Colombine.
>>2842991>>2842995reminder that mods refuse to ban this obviously bad faith poster but will ban you for a random communist take btw
>>2840895You are really stupid dude
>>2843003Mods ban you for random communist takes like
>>2843016 >>2843018come on goys support another war for Israel, these brown proles are being oppressed don't be racist
https://nitter.poast.org/cbonneauimages/status/2067169739223290313#mIsrael has already broken the ceasefire and Iran is doing nothing about it. I predicted Israel would wait for the deal to move past being simply an MOU but no, they started immediately.
The only rational conclusion to reach from the fact that Iran is not immediately retaliating is that the war has severely depleted Iran and their domestic situation is far worse than we previously thought. They are desperate for the sanctions and blockade to be lifted. Sorry to be a doomer but yknow w/e
>>2842991Tell me how exactly you think China's market reforms are a direct result of the strategy the CPC used to navigate the contradictions between the KMT and Japan in the 1930s and 40s.
>>2842995The only way to express solidarity with people under assault from imperialism is by affirming their right to resist it.
>>2843038>theirThere is no 'their' no more than there is 'us' as in you and the trump admin, orientalist retard.
>>2843044Except there is, since the proletariat and the national bourgeoisie have a common interest in not falling under imperialist dominance.
>>2843045Yes, the bourgeoisie that facilitated their CIA backed annihilation and will fight to the last of them for its survival
>>2843048Is being colonized good for the workers of Iran? Simple yes or no question.
>>2842991Economic categories peculiar to capitalism, such as surplus-value, do not exist in Communist China. Communist stock exchange transforms the passive recipient of wages into an associated producer who consciously reinvests a portion of the social surplus for the benefit of present and future generations. In a Communist economy, the surplus created by labor belongs not to private shareholders but to society as a whole. The problem to be solved is therefore not who shall appropriate the surplus, but how the social surplus shall be distributed between accumulation and consumption. Capitalist stock exchange enable capitalists to speculate, buying and sell claims on enterprises in order to appropriate profits derived from wage labor, whereas Communist stock exchange enables workers collectively to plan production, direct and reinvest socially owned surplus into State and independent Communist enterprises according to the objectives of the socialist plan.
>>2843049No, being 'colonized" by capital isn't good for them, that's why they must overthrow the regime that facilitates and plans to expand these social relations, so whenever they're being brutalized throughout their struggle you don't see me cheer for it
>>2840904 >>2843056What's the socially necessary amount of labubus?
>>2843057>that's why they must overthrow the regime that facilitates and plans to expand these social relationsIf the Iranian government is facilitating the country's colonization by the US, then why did the Americans attack them?
>>2843059It isn't because the US rejected Iranian bourgeoisie pleas for sanction relief and investments repeatedly as it is more interesting in keeping Iran as a pariah state, an alibi for its forever wars.
>>2843062But if investments automatically mean colonialism and deeper imperialist control, why put sanctions on them in the first place?
>>2843036>The only rational conclusionJumping to conclusions isn't rational.
>>2843063>But if investments automatically mean colonialism and deeper imperialist control, why put sanctions on them in the first place?the rebuttal that vanquished a million ultras
>>2843064What is the alternative more rational conclusion? They simply don't know what is going on?
>>2843066In order for the leftcom view to make sense, we have to disbelieve our eyes and assume that every international conflict between capitalist states is actually some tightly choreographed ruse rather than a genuine conflict of competing interests. They're genuinely incapable of conceiving the notion that different factions of the bourgeoisie could come to blows over anything.
>>2843063nuclear proliferation, same reason why china and russia sanctionned iran and dprk
>>2843063The necessity of periodically destroying productive forces beats Chevron's desire to expand into two more oil wells that are already rented out to multinationals and within the global production chain
It's like how China puts off one billionaire for the benfit of the whole class
>>2843075I know he was hated by american right wingers, but when will they admit that Obama was the far better American imperialist?
>>2843071>The necessity of periodically destroying productive forcesCapitalists have zero understanding of this necessity because they aren't Marxists. If they wanted to destroy productive forces they could have just done so without a war. Close factories, melt machinery and sell it for scrap, dump excess products into landfills and burn it. What makes zero sense is for them to engage in an absurdly risky and unpredictable venture like warfare which has the potential to cripple their geopolitical interests and no guarantee to even produce the result they want. When agriporkies need to raise the price of their produce they destroy orchards. They don't lobby the government to attack China in the hopes that the PLAAF will drop napalm on their farms.
>beats Chevron's desire to expand into two more oil wells that are already rented out to multinationals Iran's oil industry is worth around $10 trillion in terms of its reserves. Way more than the $300 billion in reparations being paid. Meanwhile the only capital that was destroyed was in Iran, where there's no reason to think that Western companies will get any contracts to rebuild it. If foreigners are involved at all it they will most certainly be from BRICS countries, especially China. Iran could just as easily invest their reparations in domestic industry exclusively. What benefits do the American porkies get then?
>>2843069Iran was not building a nuclear weapon. In negotiations immediately before the war they offered to surrender their entire stockpile of nuclear materials and cease all enrichment.
>>2843075MAGA is now costing Israel and AIPAC more politically than they're providing in exchange. Time for Netanyahu to pull the plug and pivot. President Newsom and the Woke 2.0 era incoming in 2028.
>>2842162lmao what a fucking clown, impossible to take him seriously
>>2842163poor glowies pretending to be ultra, they have a hard time convincing people with a functioning brain US empire and global capital are winning, because the reality is in direct contradiction with their cia approved narratives
>>2843067The more rational process would be not to draw any singular conclusion at all based on such a dirth of hard data.
<It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. Personally, I don't think it's very logical to conclude that Iran is in such a weak position when it's the US that is finally being made to come to the negotiating table, cap in hand, just because Iran isn't wasting missiles on Israel at this point. And yes, they would be wasted because those missiles aren't going to force Israel to do what they want. The primary point of leverage is the strait of hormuz, and the economic damage that is resulting from its closure is what is bringing Washington to the table right now.
Striking Israel in Lebanon isn't going to stop Israel. At this point, only the US has the power to actually physically stop Israel's aggression. The heart of that conflict has been shifted by the MOU to Washington, where the various factions of the bourgeoisie are currently fighting among themselves. The economic cliff created by depleting petroleum reserves is the impetus of maximum pressure. Bombing Israelis, while cathartic, wouldn't increase that pressure.
>>2842183Since when have presidents been held accountable for murder
>>2843038>Tell me how exactly you think China's market reforms are a direct result of the strategy the CPC used to navigate the contradictions between the KMT and Japan in the 1930s and 40s. class collaboration, Mao tried to compensate for it with the cultural revolution to give the PRC a more proletarian character but it failed, then this failure was used to justify the market reforms
>>2843117So glowies are anti juche schizos, or pro juche schizos? make up your mind. its one or the other. its not like theyd suddenly switch up to pretending to be Maoists because they got mocked for being pro AM or whatever.
>>2843068>In order for the leftcom view to make sense, we have to disbelieve our eyes and assume that every international conflict between capitalist states is actually some tightly choreographed ruse rather than a genuine conflict of competing interestsno, you just have to realize that despite their conflict of interests they still have a common ground against the proletariat
>They're genuinely incapable of conceiving the notion that different factions of the bourgeoisie could come to blows over anything.no, is just that after they have their struggle session (where the main victims are workers) they will always preffer to reach a compromise between their class and throw workers under the bus
i'm just saying there's a new sub l thanks Reddit called r/newiran and it glows like the sun and I just feel like we're outflanked on the web because you can just fabricate and astroturf everything. Fuck, lads, I have not been political for about a decade and I'm just ready for it to all be over at this point. I had no idea until the other day what ACP was or that MAGA communism wasn't just some meme but I know the normal discourse and consciousness is at a very unfavorable spot. Stay strong and take care of each other.
>>2843144And what compromise was reached with Russian porkies?
>>2843089>>2843158maybe /pol/ was right and zion dion was aipac's demise all along but for the most retarded of reasons
>>2843163They live while russian workers die
>>2843181i'm sorry to have even put that part in my post if anything it will go in some other thread or some other board where it's more appropriate because I do want to talk about it. I think if you are honest and really intellectually committed about any of this, then you will never really fully go apolitical.
i'm really just thinking out loud how do we influence the narrative/discourse? It feels like the facts vindicate our position but ultimately people have the luxury of just believing whatever they want
>>2843180That's it? That's your argument? They get to
live while watching the stuff they think belongs to them gets taken?
>>2843144>no, you just have to realize that despite their conflict of interests they still have a common ground against the proletariatThat's just simply not true. Both world wars had numerous instances of bourgeois factions siding with socialists against a rival bourgeoisie. In WW2 the American and British bourgeoisie decided that Germany was a larger threat to their interests than the USSR, and they formed an alliance. The Kuomintang did the same thing with regard to the CPC vs the Japanese. The OSS trained and armed the Viet Minh for the same reason. Prior to that, in WW1 the Germans provided logistical assistance to the Bolsheviks and material assistance to the Irish Republicans (who were predominantly socialist). During the Suez Crisis the US and USSR took the same side together against Britain and France. Its simply objectively, demonstrably, historically false to say that the bourgeoisie always band together against socialists. Inter-bourgeois antagonisms have overcome their anti-communism on multiple occasions.
>they will always preffer to reach a compromise between their class and throw workers under the busThe laws of capitalist imperialism make this ultimately impossible. The national bourgeoisie by definition resist the subordination of their country to a neo-colonial status, whereas the imperialist system by definition requires such subordination. Its true that the national bourgeoisie can morph into a comprador bourgeoisie, but it doesn't follow from this that a national bourgeois country can reach a modus vivendi with imperialism (if they did then they would cease to be a national bourgeoisie). It also doesn't follow that workers never have a stake in the outcome of inter-bourgeois conflicts, because the outcome can lead to better or worse conditions for socialist revolution. To take another WW2 example, the defeat of Japan created a power vacuum that allowed the communists in both China and Vietnam to rapidly expand their influence, and they gained legitimacy from their participation in the national liberation struggle. Neither revolution would have succeeded if the communists simply threw up their hands and sat out the struggle because both sides were bourgeois.
>>2843192Russian capitalists have been making bank even though russia is in a recession
>>2843158this guy is in Netanyahus inner circle. im laffin
>>2843196Uh-huh. What about the compromise with the western bourgeoisie? What does that look like?
>>2843200It looks like not killing each other but sending the proles instead
>>2843195>That's just simply not true.ok, go ahead and try to establish socialism by collaborating with canadian porky then
>Its simply objectively, demonstrably, historically false to say that the bourgeoisie always band together against socialists.good thing I never said that, I said porky even when they fight still have common ground against the proletariat
but still, socialists always get thrown under the bus in united fronts with liberals too, thats what happened after WW2
>Neither revolution would have succeededthose two countries are capitalist now
>>2843202Damn. Instead, they just take their stuff. Something booj has literal nightmares about, and probably considers being killed a better option.
It's not like solidarity among the upper class is fake, a system based on competition unsustainable, their co-existence a zero-sum, and offloading the violence and cost of accumulation of capital onto proles merely a temporary agreement to delay going after each other. A logical conclusion where is nothing more to take from the bottom.
If only your ""understanding"" of Marxism wasn't childlike and a century out of date. And, like the dumb fuck (you) are, you didn't scream "liberal" at someone who has better and more advancement knowledge than you. Maybe you could learn something. For once.
>>2843226>ok, go ahead and try to establish socialism by collaborating with canadian porky thenNot applicable because Canada is an imperialist country.
>good thing I never said thatGood, then you should be able to understand that genuine conflicts exist among the bourgeoisie, and that understanding and navigating these is critical to the success of socialism.
>but still, socialists always get thrown under the bus in united fronts with liberals tooExcept in China, Vietnam, Cuba and Yugoslavia where the opposite happened.
>those two countries are capitalist nowFor reasons having nothing to do with the tactics they used during their national liberation struggles.
>>2843240none of the countries you listed were in any way like iran right now, every one of these natlib struggles were possessed by a socialist and democratic revolutionary element and demolished the old ruling classes. by comparison the iranian government is desperately trying to avert any social change in the country and its proxies
>>2843262>none of the countries you listed were in any way like iran right now, every one of these natlib struggles were possessed by a socialist and democratic revolutionary elementMy point is that they illustrate the correct way for communists to handle a national liberation struggle where they are forced to ally with national bourgeois forces. If anything, the lack of a revolutionary element in Iran increases the importance of the national bourgeoisie simply because there is no proletarian alternative. As things stand right now, it's the Islamic Republic or imperialism. Obviously if a socialist alternative can be organized (and it should) then that would be preferable. The difficult part is finding a way to do that without splitting the anti-imperialist camp, until such time as the socialists are strong enough to take leadership of the struggle.
>>2843269Funny that you call me an orientalist. If I cited Mao's defence of the Chinese United Front and New Democracy I'm sure you'd come up with some reason why the Chinese revolution doesn't count and how we shouldn't learn anything from their experience, despite the obvious parallels between their situation and Iran's. To say nothing of what Lenin and Stalin said on these questions.
>another peanut thrown from the gallery from landed on me
Damn. What will I do? It's not like they will amount to anything in their fucking worthless lives.
Do the… "people"… that repudiate every single communist movement that actually amounted to something realize what worthless uighurs they are? Are they capable of having such higher thoughts?
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5928204-pentagon-musk-grok-chatbot-iran-strikes/
> The Pentagon artificial intelligence chief on Monday said Elon Musk’s Grok chatbot is tantamount to national security in a sworn statement that noted xAI’s technology has been used throughout the Iran war.
> Cameron Stanley, the chief digital and artificial intelligence officer for the Department of Defense, wrote that the chatbot “enabled U.S. forces to deploy over 2,000 munitions to 2,000 distinct targets within 96 hours during Operation Epic Fury, a testament to the greatly increased operational efficiency made possible by the Grok Gov Model.”
> “Furthermore, it has tailored functionality to support military planning workflows, report synthesis and generation, predictive analytics for logistics and sustainment, red-teaming analysis of adversary positioning, personnel management, and medical supply lines,” Stanley wrote. “The Grok Gov Model offers features unique to XAI that are found in no other frontier AI model,” he added.
> The Grok Gov Model
> THE GROK GOVERNMENT MODELHooolly shiit what the fuck is going on
>>2843309Material reality, aka geopol, is bourgeois pseudoscience.
You must focus on having the most ideological pure opinions, and, as a reward for your faith, Marx himself will descend upon the Earth to deliver you to a communist not-a-state.
>>2843297yeah its about over for them. theyre sick twisted, delusional people, theyll be out for revenge on the world, and should be locked up and placed into supervised holding areas, until we know we can trust israelis.
>>2843288And yet it was defeated by digging some really deep holes to shoot missiles out of.
>>2843288As with any claims of what an LLM did successfully one must always ask: how did they verify it? Very often, almost always, they apply the circular logic of "the LLM is very accurate so we know that it got it right". And then they use the fact that "it got it right" the last time to justify how accurate it is, and on and on. What LLMs in war provide is an excuse to fire upon dubious targets. The USA doesn't have boots on the ground to investigate if the strikes hit legitimate military targets and they certainly won't believe reports from the IRI that say otherwise. I
guarantee that if we could verify the targets that Grok supposedly identified as legitimate and were struck we would find that a shocking amount were at best useless and at worst, and most likely, civilian targets.
Of course I have similar doubts about the claims of more efficient military planning workflows, report synthesis, analytics for logistics and all the other shit they claim.
>>2843359>CEO of Anthropic Dario Amodei awkwardly smiles through his answer to a question about why Claude AI directly contributed to the US Military bombing of the elementary school in Minab.https://x.com/karaokecomputer/status/2065371022837305572Imo there's currently a lot of jockeying for position right now to be the government's murderbot supplier of choice. Allegedly there's human oversight in what targets are being chosen for surprise remodeling, but personally I quite doubt it. I think as far as the creatures that find this kind of thing desirable are concerned, it's just sufficient to pick targets with humans in them within reasonable bounds of the zone of conflict. As long as it's blowing up something or someone within Iran, mission accomplished.
Ideally, the whole system would be automated, from production to identification to deployment. The effectiveness isn't so much an issue, because the resulting consumption and the profit derived from it is desirable in itself.
>>2843309yeah but all we do is cheerlead. thats it. no hate to cheerleaders they are prole. yes thats it exactly we're just proling out and nothing else
>>2843078Porkies sell weapons though
>>2843275even by their logic the situation bares little similarity to even the kuomintang, the iranian state has no tolerance whatsoever for even social democracy, let alone communism, it's either a hardline, autocratic islamism, or a more moderate islamic liberalism, the kuomintang even if they hated the communists, understood them as a strong, organized force against foreign invasion, this isn't even remotely the case here, this would be more or less the franco-prussian war, would we support the french empire against the prussians, simply because they're being "invaded" and all that? hardly, same goes for the prussians, the iranian communists and socialists do not have any reason to simply bow down to their bourgeois state, because an iranian win doesn't change anything for the proletarians other than a moderate increase in the standards of living
>>2843403Iran is not France. Prussia and France were both imperialist, Iran is not, but USA is. How hard is this for you to grasp?
>>2843407i didn't use it because it was an imperialist war, that it was is actually irrelevant to the point, i used it because it was two reactionary forces in a battle against each other for reasons alien towards proletarian interest, you have either the reactionary, emerging power, or the established, sinking, reactionary power, and them winning doesn't really change much, hence such a situation should be used as a vehicle to gain proletarian power
>>2843411It is in Iranian proletariat's interests to not get bombed daily like Palestine or Lebanon, fucktard
>>2843407Iran is imperialist
>>2843415Yeah its interest is getting shot by its own guberment
>>2843417>getting bombed, industries, water purification plants destroyed, is the same as pro-West protesters getting shotIf anything, shooting protesters is a defence against destruction by bombs, as people who supply bombers with targets stop being able to spy for the enemy
>>2843332Geopolitics are bourgeois politics - Great Soviet Encyclopedia.
>>2843418It is. Its a war of porkies against wagecucks.
>>2843423Iranians who protested, after seeing what kind of evil they invited to their homes, changed their opinions on protesting. This is all the proof you need to understand what is in working class interests and what is not
>>2843425That doesnt proove anything. I am of the opinion that this is an interimperialist conflict. This is the proof that it is
there is no proof that iranian protests stopped at a significant rate <because> of newfound support of the public for the islamic republic rather than the fear of getting murdered by a drone or bomb of the great satan or a bullet from the national satan, nor is there any guarantee that protests won't resume in full force once (if) the great satans withdraw their weapons from the iranian theatre to rapekill someone else
>>2843429>we protested for democracy, not for America to invade under this pretext and bomb us!A tale as old as US imperialist policy
>>2843454What the fuck, actual Top Gun?
>>2843464where did you get it from? who posted it originally and where?
>>2843464If that's AI, it'd be very concerning where it found enough footage to correctly depict explosions with shockwaves and with minimal fireball.
>>2843464this is 100% ai because this shit would've been all over the news!!!
every neocon would be using this as a justification to intensify the war effort
>>2843465Someone posted it on hasan's discord an hour ago.
>>2843332>Material reality, aka geopolnot the same thing retard
>>2843288Wow so this explains why they're trying to crush Anthropic now. No serious user uses Grok for anything.
>>2843474Not according left"coms".
>>2843476to anyone with a brain. geopol is a a myth used to justify the use of game "theory" and biological/geographical determinism
it's called historical
and dialectical materialism, you're missing the dialectical part, geopol is at best a historic description
>>2843473well, if they didn't provide a source just assume it's fake until proven otherwise
>>2843480They got it from somewhere though, right?
>>2843479Blah, blah, blah. Feel free to stop using terms you barely understand and talk about fighting over the flow of global trade.
>>2843482yeah, probably from one of those ai generator sites
whatever happened to the old adage "not everything on the internet is true"
>>2843464not an expert but i would expect someone to try to take cover from massive explosions moving towards him
>>2843484you are a right-deviation it seems, oh well, pearls before swine etc
>>2843490You're gonna have to amount to something first, before you can talk like you're in a position to purge anyone except yourself.
>>2843493>You're gonna have to amount to something firstwe are on an image board get a grip
>>2843493>You're gonna have to amount to something firstImmaculate larp
>>2843496>>2843503Still waiting on that "real communist" not-a-state that abolished commodity production.
>>2843509So was Stalin
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/01/18.htm>Leninism teaches that "the final victory of Socialism, in the sense of full guarantee against the restoration of bourgeois relations, is possible only on an international scale" (c.f. resolution of the Fourteenth Conference of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union).>This means that the serious assistance of the international proletariat is a force without which the problem of the final victory of Socialism in one country cannot be solved. >On the contrary, this assistance of the international proletariat must be combined with our work to strengthen the defence of our country, to strengthen the Red Army and the Red Navy, to mobilise the whole country for the purpose of resisting military attack and attempts to restore bourgeois relations. >Can the victory of Socialism in one country be regarded as final if this country is encircled by capitalism, and if it is not fully guaranteed against the danger of intervention and restoration?>Clearly, it cannot, This is the position in regard to the question of the victory of Socialism in one country. Unique IPs: 147