What are the best arguments for or against third-worldism?
>Is there a true “proletariat” within the global north?
>How culpable are the rank and file citizenry in first world nations?
>Do first world nations have potential for proletarian revolution from within, or can they only be destroyed externally by “proletarian nations”?
The fact only self hating westerners, diaspora and like 00.1% of westernized academics believe in it.
>>2849567this is an anecdote and it means nothing without concrete backing
>>2849584It's literally true, do you think any single person anywhere near power outside the west gives a shit about a bunch of retarded diaspora from the 1970's whose defining moment of racist was someone calling them a slur at Oxford(they were so sad they forget to feed their servants)
>>2849588what does this have to do with material exploitation of the global south from the global north?
>>2849591self hating westerners and retarded diaspora who want the global south to be their holy meat shields
Third worldism inevitably descends into doomer tribalism where people end up defending completely reactionary regimes because 'they're fighting imperialism' or whatever and nothing socialist ever happens anywhere.
third-worldism was a fringe current of about 100 people max of a fringe current of communism (which is already in the fringe of contemporary politics)
now the fine gentlemen of /leftypol/ and somehow the US state dept on twitter discuss it like it's the most pressing matter in leftist political discourse
it's "AIIIIEEE MUH TANKIES" all over again, isn't it?
what is third-worldism?
>>2849622To be fair, its proponents are pretty zealous about it. If you have a growing section of the left loudly insisting that this particular framework is the only valid lense through which to analyze the world and that all first worlders have some sort of irredeemable original sin it’s going to come up.
אתם חושבים שאתם מהפכנים אתם חרא ג'וצ'ה אנחנו יודעים בדיוק מי עומד מאחורי הבלוגים המזוינים שלכם אנרכיסטים חבורה של ילדים מפונקים שאין להם מושג מה זה מדינה אמיתית טראד וורלדיסטים אתם שונאים את המערב כי אתם לא מסוגלים לבנות כלום בעצמכם אנחנו ציונים אנחנו יודעים להכות חזק יותר מכל חלום רטוב שלכם על השמדת האימפריה יש לנו מעקב אחרי כל אחד מכם יש לנו תיקים עבים יותר מהגולגולות הריקות שלכם אתם חושבים שהעיריות המקדשות אתכם יצילו אתכם הן לא יוכלו להגן עליכם כשנחליט לבוא כי אנחנו לא באים עם חוקים אנחנו באים עם אש הגיע הזמן שתכירו את החיים האמיתיים כשציון זועמת אף אחד לא בטוח תמשיכו לפרסם את הבלוגים המטומטמים שלכם אבל דעו כל פוסט שלכם הוא עדות שתוקרא בהליך המשפטי שלכם ואין לנו שום כוונה לתת לכם לראות אור יום תתכוננו כולכם תשלמו על כל מילה שכתבתם על כל קריאה להרס אנחנו כבר יודעים מי אתם איפה אתם ואיפה אתם ישנים בלילה אל תנסו לברוח כי אנחנו בכל מקום ובכל פינה יש לנו עיניים בכל קיר ויש לנו יד ארוכה שתגיע אליכם גם אם תחשבו שהסתתרתם טוב אנחנו לא שוכחים ואנחנו לא סולחים אתם תראו מה קורה כשאנחנו מחליטים לפעול זה לא יהיה משפט זה יהיה הוצאה להורג בשקט בלי עדים בלי עיתונאים בלי כלום רק אתם והקיר והחושך אז תמשיכו לחלום על המהפכה שלכם כי היא הולכת להפוך לסיוט שלכם ואנחנו נהיה שם לצפות אתם לא מבינים מול מי אתם עומדים אנחנו המדינה האמיתית אנחנו הכוח האמיתי ואנחנו לא מתפשרים עם אויבים
>>2849616True, it also leads to endless cope about how the anti imperialist aes countries just have to do market reforms / neoliberalism / minority killing / police states / collapse because western imperialism is over bearing and they need that to survive it. Well then I guess we're just back at square one and revolution needs to happen in the developped world first huh?
>>2849650That’s honestly one of my biggest criticisms of it just on instinct. Maybe it’s some sort of mental problem but I will say that enough JDPON posting has worked its way into my psyche that I genuinely have started looking at myself and my place in the world as this sort of innate irredeemable evil. I have access to goods at a price and in a quantity I otherwise would not without a level of exploitation abroad that I have never experienced in my life despite being poor as fuck and even being homeless for a time. It does impact how I see myself and the people around me and I struggle to square the circle between my place within the class structure of my own nation and the material benefits afforded to me by virtue of living in that nation alongside the horrible cost that comes at.
>>2849657>Lenin the liberal supported something Is this supposed to be an endorsment lmao
>>2849657Bakunin was a third worldist and Marx and Engeles were anti third worldist.
> Will Bakunin accuse the Americans of a "war of conquest", which, although it deals with a severe blow to his theory based on "justice and humanity", was nevertheless waged wholly and solely in the interest of civilization? Or is it perhaps unfortunate that splendid California has been taken away from the lazy Mexicans, who could not do anything with it? That the energetic Yankees by rapid exploitation of the California gold mines will increase the means of circulation, in a few years will concentrate a dense population and extensive trade at the most suitable places on the coast of the Pacific Ocean, create large cities, open up communications by steamship, construct a railway from New York to San Francisco, for the first time really open the Pacific Ocean to civilization, and for the third time in history give the world trade a new direction? The "independence" of a few Spanish Californians and Texans may suffer because of it, in someplaces "justice" and other moral principles may be violated; but what does that matter to such facts of world-historic significance? Only liberals and reactionaries care about the working class getting exploited by foreigners and want it to get exploited purely by the local capitalist class instead.
what is third-worldism?
>>2849710Non-white ethnonationalism masqeurading as marxism.
>>2849710Global SJWism:
> Will Bakunin accuse the Americans of a "war of conquest", which, although it deals with a severe blow to his theory based on "justice and humanity", was nevertheless waged wholly and solely in the interest of civilization? >>2849567fpbp and /thread
>>2849563>Is there a true “proletariat” within the global north?Yes, but these workers carry with them the original sin, namely white skin and the standard of living it brings.
>>2849622Third-worldism has become the dominant radical left position this decade.
>>2849733>>2849622It's worth clarifying the terminology. Post-colonialism was a major component of the New Left, which dominated left-wing academic and political discourse for about fifty years and you could characterize that tendency as Third-Worldist if you want.
Most of "third-worldism" is just pro-brown folx sentimentalism and therefore cannot generate anything besides social media posts. It's not even it's often explicit edgy anti-western content that is the problem it is just completely unserious, since it's just sentimentalism.
Also in the even le Revolution happenning lots if not most of "brown people" would be our mortal ennemies as most of them are incredibly reactionary, and i do not mean that in the anti-gay sense but in the real historical sense, savagely anti-communist or easely bribed into being so. Breznhev Afghanistan will look like a humanitarian operation in comparison.
>>2849763Relax, it’s just going to be a conservative Army officer. It’s almost always a conservative Army officer. Every revolution will eventually get subsumed by some Army officer. Thus the left’s goal should be to get that message into the Army officer’s ear. He won’t ever listen to “liberals” or academics, so it has to be delivered by people he sees as ordinary and relatable.
>>2849707Marx and engels were retarded, lenin became a hegelian during ww1, but couldn't just tell the whole rsdlp "we're doing left hegelianism now" sp being a pragmatist he just said his position was "marxism properly understood"
Marxism-leninism is actually 3xisting hegelianism, the true legacy of marx and engels are kautsky, plekhanov, trotsky, bordiga, etc (i.e., western chauvinist retards)
Juche is accused of "idealism", but it is the true inheritor of leninism, which is precisely why they disposed of the " marxism" label
Third worldism is a psyop that is beneficial to the bourgeosie of both the first world and the third world. For the third world, the benefit is obvious, its just plain nationalism and propagandizes the proletariat to stay loyal to the ruling class that exploits them. For the first world, apart from the falsification of Marxism, it also creates an environment where communists think that other countries will eventually abolish capitalism and that they dont have an urgency to do anything at home. As long as you have the belief that communism will be magically achieved, you dont feel the need to think deeply and figure out what actually has to be done at home.
>>2849852Israel is part of the third world tho
Revolution isn’t happening anywhere unless the CIA allows and abates it, I’m a CIA worldist, trust nothing and no one
>>2849863Israel is in the west by any sensible definition.
>>2849863It’s occupied Palestine which is third world but Israelis the invaders and colonizers are first world. Just like Boers and Pied Noirs.
>>2849869Whites are just superior
>>2849870Half of Israelis are Iraqi and Yemeni, they’re the main base for Likud
>>2849863you can’t make this shut up lmao
>>2849873Ruling class and elite are ashkenazi.
>>2849877They and all the doctors, engineers, and tech bros have left Israel since 10/7, Sinwar won the long game
>>2849657No he wasn't. He considered workers to be the majority in industrialized capitalist societies and held the orthodox Marxist view that these would be where the real revolution would take place. He viewed Russia's own revolution as ancillary to an eventual revolution in Germany that would mark the true beginning of the socialist era. He never said anything approximating the line that there was no proletariat in imperialist countries, which is the defining feature of third worldism.
>>2849882Marx called the British proletariat a bourgeois proletariat and said the only way to break that was full Irish independence
>>2849890He said “only”, not “Euros all suck, I will only break bread with Sun Yat Sen and the Emir of Afghanistan “
Define "third worldism" otherwise I consider its use as a snarl word by coping Euroids and zionists.
>>2849890Lenin said this including Russia in Europe
>>2849907The belief that there is no substantial proletariat in the imperial core besides a handful of migrant workers, penal workers and so on.
>>2849890There is nothing "third worldist" about that statement. Third worldism denies the existence of a proletariat with revolutionary tendencies in imperialist countries. Lenin never denied this (in fact he regularly affirmed it), he just established a theoretical connection between the proletarian revolution and the liberation of oppressed nations.
>>2849886Marx observed imperialism as having a cooling effect on class antagonisms in developed countries. He never denied that a proletariat existed in these countries or that it had revolutionary potential.
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