[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Check out our new store at shop.leftypol.org!


File: 1782428174454-5.jpg (19.26 KB, 930x744, 5484.jpg)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/25/robert-jenrick-questions-about-5m-donation-nigel-farage-legitimate

Robert Jenrick says questions about £5m donation to Farage are legitimate

<Robert Jenrick has said it is “legitimate” for the media to ask questions about Nigel Farage’s £5m personal donation from a cryptocurrency billionaire, just days after the Reform UK leader told an interviewer it was “none of your business”.
170 posts and 18 image replies omitted.

>>2852969
So you cannot say that Marxism is true or not, yet you merely have faith that it may be true?

>>2852971
Hilariously this contravenes your own position and poses truth itself as an inherently subjective criterion

Read First Premises you fucking dunce, stop arguing with your poor understanding of the philosophy of science

>>2852976
So it appears confirmed then, you cannot say that Marxism is true, and so you live by mere faith, and not knowledge.

File: 1782651679802-6.jpg (28.37 KB, 250x371, All_Is_True.jpg)

<So called Marxists when you ask them for the basis of their scientific foundation

>>2852977
Read the fucking text you moron

>>2852979
Is Marxism true?
Or do you merely 'believe' that it may be true?

>>2852980
Read the fucking text

>>2852981
You call yourself a "Marxist" like someone calls themself a "Christian", it seems. An irrelevant declaration of identity which gives comfort in the sense of being "the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions". Your beliefs confer nothing about the reality of the world, so why insist upon it?

>>2852983
>No, I insist. I will not read it, I simply will not read it!

>>2852984
Why should I read something which is apparently untrue?

>>2852985
So you'll shut up

>>2852986
But this is again irrational. Reading something apparently untrue would not keep me from further replies, so you have a false sense of causation in this statement. Now that I have stated the fact of the matter, you should no longer insist upon my reading of the text since it will not 'shut me up'. Any further attempt will display what is often referred to as "the definition of insanity", and so you will not simply be irrational, but also insane.

>>2852987
>But this is again irrational
You shutting up? I bet it is

>>2852988
If me 'shutting up' is "irrational" and you demand it, then you are plainly admitting to your irrationality in this statement. Do you accept that you are irrational, or did you perhaps mis-type?


>>2852990
Now, see how your persistence has moved from basic irrationality toward insanity. This is an unfortunate state of affairs, but by this public diagnosis, I hope that in a healthy manner of lucidity, you are finally freed from this captive condition of incorrect thinking.

>>2852993
I accept your concession

Shit, maybe there is something to this reading business

>>2852995
I hope you get better, anon.

>>2852997
And I hope you read that fucking text

BAME workers and their kids are not why your life is shit and nothing works

>>2853016
Is that a fact?

>>2853017
Yes because race doesn’t exist, that’s a scientific fact

>>2853018
But facts are true

>>2853020
Any BAME that’s been a cunt to you wasn’t being a cunt to you because they’re BAME but because they’re a cunt. It’s that simple.

>>2853020
Any BAME that’s been a cunt to you wasn’t being a cunt to you because they’re BAME but because they’re a cunt. It’s that simple.

>>2853023
That's a truth-claim. Care to prove that?

>>2853016
Racism is often devoid of material analysis. There is a very useful BBC article here about the decline of wealth after the 2008 crisis:
<The Resolution Foundation calculated that had wages continued to grow as they were before the financial crash of 2008, the average worker would make £11,000 more per year than they do now, taking rising prices into account […] what are known as "real wages" haven't seen sustained growth for 15 years […] Since the financial crash of 2008, many countries have struggled to increase productivity. But the UK has struggled more than most. It averages growth of 0.4% a year, well below the average of developed nations. One reason for that is the make-up of the UK economy. Services, like finance, retail, hospitality and leisure, make up 80% of our economy. It is traditionally harder to increase productivity in these areas.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64970708
So the reason why things have gotten worse is that we are less productive than other nations. The UK is particularly affected.

>>2853023
Exactly. This is why you know the right doesn't care about rape itself, because there are never any riots when whites rape each other.

>>2853024
Maybe BAME was a cunt to OP because OP is a cunt?

>>2853032
Cunts exist in all shapes and sizes. Be anti-cunt generally.

>>2853026
good post, though i would quibble with the BBC's explanation as-such: most first world economies are high-70 low-80% services, so while it's true that increasing productivity in services is traditionally harder, it cannot serve as an explanation for britain's relative decline.

this is important because "dude just make steel again lmao" fantasies are now a universal fetish, all sides of british politics want to turn back the clock on deindustrialisation instead of embracing the stuff we're actually good at. even dominic cummings, who had a smart little plan for making us the university of the world, has shelved that to whine about net zero making it too expensive to manufacture stuff here. (not even true, our energy prices are high because of our fake-privatized electricity sector uses an asinine pricing system that encouraged excessive dependency on gas power in a world where every 15 minutes some dickhead starts a war that shuts down the global gas supply.)

>>2853035
>most first world economies are high-70 low-80% services, so while it's true that increasing productivity in services is traditionally harder, it cannot serve as an explanation for britain's relative decline.
Well, looking at data, the most capital-intensive (e.g. industrialised) countries in the EU receive the highest wages, so there is correlation.
>this is important because "dude just make steel again lmao" fantasies are now a universal fetish
Sure, but we still need to balance trade, not simply exist in deficit to China forever, since this drains away our national accounts. If anything, we should at least make a lot of our own stuff like we used to.

>>2853040
Capital intensiveness and industrialisation are not so simple. McDonalds is a service business, but the reason it's cheaper and more productive than its competitors is that it's more capital intensive. Britain does have a problem with underinvestment and with a poor trade balance, but the most rational scenario for "status quo" management (e.g. assuming we don't go communist and don't face a succession of catastrophic wars and climate disasters that change the game entirely) would be to prioritise increasing productivity and exports in our service sector, rather than throwing money and labour after the idea that we'd be a rich country if only we manufactured flat pack tables domestically instead of getting them on a boat. The solution to our deficit with China is to find something we're good at that China wants - which is more likely to be university degrees, english language media, etc, than cars and laptops.

>>2853035
The idea that certain nations are better at making steel than others is idiotic, we should strive to produce as much of our own needs as possible. If we fill our own needs then we should fill those of other countries. It's either that or the whole economy is build on selling bombs to Israel.

>>2853061
Sure, but again, if we build some of our own industry, there is less of a deficit to make up the difference with, and so it becomes a competitive advantage over all. For example, if exports remain constant but imports decrease, our trade balance improves.

>>2853082
This quite clearly isn't going to happen due to capital investment costs in proportion to say China

>>2853085
Well, the price for independence can be costly.
We can be like Gordon Brown and simply sell off our public assets or we can have some type of self-sufficiency.

>>2853088
Pray tell, how will you accomplish this all without nationalisation

How big are those north sea reserves? If the UK used north sea oil exclusively how quickly would it deplete?

>>2853091
I never suggested anything besides nationalisation.
Before Thatcher, most of our public utilities were nationalised, and before Major, our railways were nationalised. Britain had some small spike in economic activity from Blair to Brown, but has been stagnating ever since. I am not optimistic about neoliberalism.

>>2853085
Not everything is about cost cutting. I get your point that maybe steel doesn't make a huge amount of sense but surely there has to be some manufactured goods we can make a profit on in this country besides arms. Why can't we build cars, planes, etc? Or at the very least we could launch a huge public works program to improve our collapsing infrastructure and build enough homes for everyone.

>>2853026
Business owners started using immigration to suppress wages.
Business owners pay employees less, but these employees can then claim benefits, so the taxpayer pays the rich person. Either that, or the employees have to live in shared accommodation and in worse conditions.

We need to end this lie already that British people "don't want to do the jobs" and that we should just be paying them a living wage.

>>2853065
It's not idiotic at all, even before you introduce comparative advantage or any other economic principles Nauru obviously has far less land to give over to a gigantic polluting steel mill than China does, landlocked Uganda has far less capacity to export steel than coastal Korea does, and so on.
We sell bombs to Israel because we've got an asinine policy of being totally slavish to the US (for which the logical step is to buy all our weapons from them for interoperability advantages + low unit costs) while also producing our own bespoke weapons as a subsidy to the arms industry even though that results in overpriced weapons that don't work and don't interoperate with our allies very well. It is, in fact, downstream of this stupid idea that there's something morally upstanding about "self sufficiency" and something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel.

>>2853082
This is true as it goes, but it's a question of where capital is best invested. If both exports and imports increase but exports increase by twice as much as imports, our trade balance also improves. There is a world where we throw vast sums of money at a reindustrialisation scheme (which will no doubt require imports in the short run) only for it to totally flop as consumers reject overpriced low-quality domestic goods, where the same money thrown at tourism or education would've generated export revenue.

>>2853088
There is no such thing as independence in the manner you envision. Is Germany really more independent than Britain just because it runs a massive trade surplus?

>>2853091
Nationalisation just makes things worse by lowering failure standards. Fundamentally the problem with Britain is a lack of institutional talent and experience, particularly since we destroyed a lot of it. This is true in both our public and private sectors. If you really insist that Britain must have domestic industry, the best way to start would be to bring in a bunch of Chinese or Korean managers and have them set it up. (Though this has the problem that they've got very strong incentives to do a Malaysia on us and have us just make intermediate goods for Chinese or Korean firms without capturing much value ourselves.)

>>2853098
Britain never seriously tried neoliberalism. Other than airlines basically every privatisation was fake, into a state-regulated market with stupid state-regulated incentives to be a stupid state-regulated cunt. Not in a "they won't even let you put arsenic in foods these day" whining sense either, in the sense of: we privatised electricity but left pricing decisions in the hands of the state. We privatised railways but left basically every detail of the contract for each franchise's routes, frequencies, ticket prices, etc, in the hands of the state. Idiotic! Half of these things shouldn't have been privatised even if corporatised and the other half should've been privatised for real.

>>2853102
We do actually build engines and wings for planes, it's one of the things we're good at and the kind of high-value-added (but low employment) industries we'd do well to focus on as a small but important aside to a services-focused economic strategy. (I've left it out so far because it'd distract from the wider point that our primary advantages lie in services), and we should also start massive public works programs (although in UK classifications, construction is a service industry.)

>>2853111
Since nobody'll like what I'm selling anyway, I'll advance a fun contentious theory: one problem with Britain's labour market is that the minimum wage is too high for an optimal distribution of British labour. It's not that it's actually enough to live on, but that the pay differences between low-end occupations are squeezed. Why would you be a social care worker for 25p an hour more than you get in a supermarket? So people wait for supermarket jobs to open up rather than taking social care positions, in some cases, people who would take a social care position if it was £5 an hour more than working in a supermarket.
If you just pay everyone a living wage you wind up at the same place you started, because the differential between wages hasn't changed. Unfortunately the only pragmatic solution to this would be to fix the economy in general and then throw some revenue at subsidising social care, since the alternative (squeezing or abolishing the minimum wage) would be ugly and miserable. unless minimum wage abolition was paired with UBI, which isn't a bad idea…

Personally, no amount of money would get me working in social care, short of some pretty draconian reforms that make it the only alternative to starvation. But that's just me, everyone has their own preferences.

>>2853146
We used to have the young adults working those sorts of jobs, then you can pay off university and not be in lifelong debt. I just don't get what the issue is, it seems like we're hyper-focused on educating our people for 25 to 30 years and then letting them flee our country at our expense. They can say the education drives GDP but it also causes horrendously low birth rates and now we're getting less people actually being employed.
As for subsidising social care … The conservatives already gave the boomers everything they could ever need. Triple lock pensions and every one of them that owns a house is a millionaire now, how can they not afford to pay someone to take care of them? Assuming we're talking about old people for social care.

We have people who can work, it's just clear that capitalism doesn't work with an immigration-heavy structure, where more than ever people are hopping from job to job because employers don't want to train employees in the long term and can easily abuse a cheap labour market.

>>2853146
Omg you're the 'it wasn't real neoliberalism' guy, what is even the point in arguing when your position is so fundamentally inane.

Why are you bringing up Nauru, so ridiculous.

>>2853146
ok let me give a real rebuttal.

>We sell bombs to Israel because we've got an asinine policy of being totally slavish to the US (for which the logical step is to buy all our weapons from them for interoperability advantages + low unit costs) while also producing our own bespoke weapons as a subsidy to the arms industry even though that results in overpriced weapons that don't work and don't interoperate with our allies very well. It is, in fact, downstream of this stupid idea that there's something morally upstanding about "self sufficiency" and something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel.


in terms of arms contracts, you may be right that there's some element of irrational protectionism going on there, though I do think that they probably do bring money into the UK economy to some extent.

>something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel.


this is such a cock-eyed view of the world. as if China et al will be content to forever be 'a nation of steelmakers' and content to not develop any culture industries of their own. we are already seeing chinese media products sweep the west and china beginning to turn their noses up at western cultural imports, so this argument doesn't even make sense, the 'IP nation' niche is quickly becoming non-viable. not to mention that the culture industry can only provide employment to a tiny number of people in the first place compared to steelmaking etc.

>We do actually build engines and wings for planes, it's one of the things we're good at and the kind of high-value-added (but low employment) industries we'd do well to focus on as a small but important aside to a services-focused economic strategy.


Yes we do a small amount of this kind of work but not enough to make a difference. There's no reason we should have let our car industry die, that was not economically rational in any way. deindustrialisation absolutely ravaged the economy as well as the average worker's standard of living.

>Since nobody'll like what I'm selling anyway, I'll advance a fun contentious theory: one problem with Britain's labour market is that the minimum wage is too high for an optimal distribution of British labour. It's not that it's actually enough to live on, but that the pay differences between low-end occupations are squeezed. Why would you be a social care worker for 25p an hour more than you get in a supermarket? So people wait for supermarket jobs to open up rather than taking social care positions, in some cases, people who would take a social care position if it was £5 an hour more than working in a supermarket.


I feel this is not a problem of the minimum wage being too high, people on minimum wage are already struggling to survive atrocious rent prices etc, but of there being little to no income upward mobility in the UK besides a very small number of elite jobs. the entire economy is fucked (largely because of deindustrialisation)

>>2853160
I would abolish tuition fees personally, that handles student debt quickly and easily. For most other stuff you can cross compare internationally to see what's a general flaw of the status quo and what's a Britain specific malaise. (e.g. most countries have underemployed graduates to some extent but only Britain has wage stagnation)

>>2853168
Nauru obviously demonstrates the principle that some nations are better equipped to make steel than others, since Nauru is clearly a bad site for a steel mill.

You could not articulate my position in any detail, so you are in no position to call it inane. You don't even know what you're disagreeing with or what premises I'm working from.

>>2853170
I will reply in detail when I have more time but fundamentally I will underscore once again that the majority of a developed economy is services. Even China, the manufacturing center of the world is a majority service economy! (61% of GDP)

Though I will reintroduce a hobby horse before I forget: devolve power to regions. Stop thinking nationally. If part of this country is well suited to manufacturing then let it specialise in that, rather than trying to draw up a one size doesn't fit most strategy for the nation as a whole.
(The only risk is that this boosts the chance of getting Malaysia'd even more)

>>2853171
>Nauru obviously demonstrates the principle that some nations are better equipped to make steel than others, since Nauru is clearly a bad site for a steel mill.

yeah but it's such a ridiculous argument because it doesn't apply to the UK in any way. you might as well be like 'it's wrong to say that any country will benefit from a strong transport infrastructure, because vatican city is so small, you can just walk everywhere, high speed rail would be a waste'. it's a ridiculous nitpicking of the main point

>I will reply in detail when I have more time but fundamentally I will underscore once again that the majority of a developed economy is services. Even China, the manufacturing center of the world is a majority service economy! (61% of GDP)


and did I say we should have no services? obviously no, but manufacturing/resource extraction/etc should be the bedrock of any economy in order for it to be stable

>Though I will reintroduce a hobby horse before I forget: devolve power to regions. Stop thinking nationally. If part of this country is well suited to manufacturing then let it specialise in that, rather than trying to draw up a one size doesn't fit most strategy for the nation as a whole.


I mean ok, I guess, obviously I don't think we should build steel mills in canary wharf

File: 1782674176459-4.jpeg (422.06 KB, 1200x1200, 5364.jpeg)

>>2853171
I'm trying to reason why the UK would have wage issues whereas other European countries supposedly aren't, but all I can think of is the UK devolving to the same level as previously less wealthy countries. Poland and Sweden for example used to be very poor. If other countries are apparently not having the same wages problem then I can't pin it on immigration since other countries have it just as bad.

Yeah, I dunno, shit's fucked in the UK specifically and I don't get it. But apparently people still want to come here. I sure don't, I want out, but we're not in the EU so I have very few choices of where I can go.


Unique IPs: 14

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]