Jury refuses to convict Palestine activists over arms firm raidHung jury in case of four protesters who raided Wolverhampton arms factory said to produce “military aircraft parts for Israel”
https://www.declassifieduk.org/jury-fails-to-convict-four-palestine-activists-accused-of-arms-firm-raid/>>2850517First.
>>2850545Cackling, perhaps reality has hit home
Are any brits here actually productive proletarians?
>>2850676>>2850711There isn’t a single productive proletarian anywhere in Israel, Europe, Japan, the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, or Taiwan, get that through your thick skull
>>2850711Services are productive but that requires re-thinking Marx slightly which is heresy so it's unacceptable to say yes. Well, maybe our petit bourgeois plumbers and massively subsidized steel industry that mostly churns out garbage grade steel useful only for railway tracks.
Oh, and of course all the F-35 makers and massively subsidized warship builders at BAE.
>>2850540
WTF is Bordiga doing there? Making by preparations to shit out a massive turd?
Also, how did an anti-fascist partisan that got jailed under fascism ultimately became the meme theory guy known solely for making theories?
Bro, what happened to the last thread? It seems the sharties invaded that space much like how Cromwell invaded Ireland.
>>2850813>bordiga>anti fascistLol, lmao even
>give up on the left in this country because it's useless
>discover that libs are even more useless and rightists are both useless and evil
haha :(
We need a British Deng.
>>2850658Sick honestly, they could at least try to stand an actual left wing candidate, even if they wouldn't win, so that we could have some actual scrutiny of Burnham rather than just a coronation.
Shame on the Greens for torpedoing their own campaign to let him become an MP too, they're fucked now.
>>2850952Truly dystopian. I imagine that this system being used on BAMEs first is for the government to both normalise this and trial-marshalling it considering how repressive policies are first tested out on targets less likely to cause public outrage if done to.
I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually even white British people got subjected to this for something as banal as political dissent.
Many people think this is exclusive to the UK, but across Europe it has been the norm that someone’s human rights can be taken away from via simple judicial fiat for the “public good” (which, ofc, it’s determined by the capitalist bureaucracy) despite Eurocrats lauding human rights as inalienable.
And this is all downstream from the bourgeois European spring of post-Napoleonic Europe and both world wars leading to an imperfect situation where more democracy has often meant more censorship.
>>2850813Can you retards really not let a single piece of spam, etc go without getting in a reply? Just report and go about your day for christ sake.
>>2850964>Post-Napoleonic Europe.Well, if we go by the theories of Hobson (1902) and Lenin (1917), the phenomenon of "Imperialism" arises around 1870:
<Though, for convenience, the year 1870 has been taken as indicative of the beginning of a conscious policy of Imperialism, it will be evident that the movement did not attain its full impetus until the middle of the eighties.https://www.marxists.org/archive/hobson/1902/imperialism/pt1ch1.htmAfter WW2 (1945), but even before it, there was a new attempt to consolidate imperial interests into a united Europe (e.g. As far as my knowledge goes, Nietzsche is one of the earliest advocates for the EU back in 1886, as an active opponent of German nationalism):
<I hear with pleasure that our sun is moving rapidly towards the constellation Hercules: and I hope that the men on this earth will do like the sun. And we foremost, we good Europeans!https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/nietzsche/1886/beyond-good-evil/ch08.htmOf course, the quelling of rivalries today is not merely in a quest for peace and safety, but a response to American "Super-Imperialism" (first described by Michael Hudson in 1971, as the ascendancy of the American Empire after WW2, along with Bretton-Woods, and the debt slavery of Europe - the UK only fully paying its debts in 2006). The EU was originally a right-wing idea, then, with such Eurosceptics as Clement Attlee being Britain's first 'socialist' Prime Minister. We see that with Brexit, the UK has not gained independence, but has become an effective vassal of the US, with Palantir even being allowed to be used in data collection for the NHS. In the light of both Brexit (2016) and Trump (2024), a certain European "nationalism" has ensued, as the historical cradle of a Fourth Reich. There are no socialist alternatives, since China is itself now a capitalist empire.
Reminder that the "Boriswave" was almost entirely state lead (visas for nurses, doctors, care workers, students, and dependents) which doesn't accord with the standard workerist leftslop explanations of immigration as a neoliberal conspiracy to drive down market wages. (In that case you'd expect the main sources to be McDonalds, Tesco, Greggs, etc.)
Petty reactionaries spouting shite that has no connection to real conditions because it panders to their dumb aesthetic and psychological prejudices, blaming a neoliberal experiment that never happened? Christ, it must be a day ending in 'y'…
> NO, YOU HAVE TO LEAVE BECAUSE YOU’RE FILIPINA, I’M NOT GOING TO CARE FOR MY GRANDMOTHER BUT I ALSO WON’T ALLOW HER TO RELY ON A NONWHITE
>>2851416That'll be £1500 a week plus tip
>>2851419Correct. Their wages are set by the state in monopoly conditions absent any competitive market. There's basically zero private medical sector in the UK and almost all of those working in the sliver that does exist are also NHS staff.
Turns out my emotional support rightoid Richard hanania has been annoying the rape gang bores on twitter by highlighting how idiotic their estimates are:
https://xcancel.com/RichardHanania/status/2068476652447777145fundamentally, we need a vehicle that can stop similar people in Britain (non retarded rightist neoliberals) going over to Reform or the Tories. A Reform Government of idiots is much more survivable than one with a handful of smart people who know how to get things done.
>>2851451It doesn't take a genius to figure out that NHS has to pay doctors more than cleaners because there's a shit load of people qualified to be cleaners.
More people immigrating to work in the NHS obviously leads to more depressed wages in those jobs.
>>2851603Can work in the chief central planners office obviously
>>2851579I hate Hanania but he's right for calling out the current thing rightoid goyim are going hysterical over.
I hope this will lead to some very well deserved conflict between westoid brits and immigrant gusanos, but it might just die down completely once some rightoid politician inevitably gets exposed for being involved, just like the Epstein files.
>>2851637>>2851579Like, rightoid fags actually claiming it's worse than the rape of Nanjing. Absolute fucking retards lmao. They deserve to be exploited by porky for this.
>>2851614Worst part is that this could have been avoidable if the state didn’t cut funds to local nurse and doctor training programs.
Then again, the remainers did predict this:
Brexit would have led to a drastic reduction in immigration leading to the government increasing immigration from non-EU countries to prevent the collapse of the welfare and healthcare states and hospitality industries, made worse by how the EU at that point was the UK’s largest trading partner so the non-deal Brexit screwed over Britain.
Sure, regional inequality did decrease, but only because even the big cities are languishing too alongside the countryside now. Combined that with how the UK is still reeling from the 2008 crisis, and you’ve got a bummer.
To see what I mean, watch this debate between Femi and Lowe’s representative:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iBGkssIm8XUI know he is just a lib whose biggest accomplishment is running a large pro-remain campaign, but he does make good points wrt the unmitigated disaster that is Brexit, as well as how much the British right is led by the same people that brought Brexit in the first place.
>>2851547Old leftypol would have loved that shit
>>2851614There is a surplus of medical graduates (which unis control) relative to training places (which the NHS controls), if the NHS wanted to increase the supply of qualified doctors just to lower wages it already has the mechanism with which to do so. (It could even abuse this in advance by introducing selectivity between universities when appointing training places and then allowing a trade off against final salary, e.g. those from worse unis have to undercut Oxbridge twats to get a place at all)
Your cleaner example is not as clear cut as it seems: being able to fly an airplane is a rare skill but it wasn't too long ago that US regional pilots were paid worse than McDonalds workers because supply greatly exceeded demand, and prices are set with reference to both. One can imagine a world where Britain pays doctors minimum wage but people would still become doctors because after a few years in the NHS they can emigrate…
But that's not what the NHS actually wants because it's not some 4D chess playing capitalist conspiracy, it's just a slightly shit bureaucracy.
>>2851811>There is a surplus of medical graduates (which unis control) relative to training places (which the NHS controls), if the NHS wanted to increase the supply of qualified doctors just to lower wages it already has the mechanism with which to do so.they already are driving down doctors wages though with physicians's assistants and advanced nurse practitioners, apparently they're now advertising similar jobs to the ones a doctor can do but for physician's assistants, but they get paid £20k a year more.
>>2851956This undermines rather than supporting the idea they need immigration to drive down wages. They're a monopoly buyer! They set prices!
>>2851954That article is fucking hideous
>>2851547Burnham looks more natural holding a pint than Farage, at least.
>>2851579As the prototypical neoliberal Karl Popper once wrote concerning the "Paradox of Tolerance", those who are publicly irrational have no right to freedom of expression. When you are anti-reality, you forfeit legitimacy. People hate "redditors" for asking for sources and data, but if you can't provide primary sources and evidence, you are willingly living in delusion.
>>2852015>People hate "redditors" for asking for sources and dataNo i hate Redditors because while being incredibly smug about their supposed education and oh so scientific methods they are either too dense to understand provided data and will just keep repeating their talking points and narratives incessantly or they dismiss data and evidence they don't like by applying double standards or they do not care about evidence and data at all, make up the most ridiculous claims and back them by employing all sorts of the worst sophistry. In short: Liberals are idiots, bigots, hypocrits and worse.
>>2852015I used to think of him as an anti-communist pseud but as regards the treatment of idiot rightists he was entirely correct.
>>2852051All people are like this to some extent, but if you think liberals underplaying the cost effectiveness of cubas healthcare system or the historical necessity of the DOTP for China's development are just as bad as those who genuinely think Trump won in 2020 as part of a conspiracy to push coronavirus on all of us so we'd stay locked down long enough for transgenders to replace all the real women to complete Keir Starmer's islammocommunist plan to white genocide Israel you're on another planet.
>>2851992They set prices yes, but not as they choose. They have to deal with the problem of strike action, people fucking off abroad, and so on. It's not like they could just choose to pay minimum wage to everyone that works for the NHS.
Sure, it is not purely as simple as more people to do a job = less money for the people that do the job, but all else being equal that is the case.
The move to try to sideline doctors has met with a lot of resistance and is a long and difficult process, labour supply from abroad is part of that.
>>2852117It's an aside but tbh I think Starmer fucked up by not crushing the BMA and squeezing real terms NHS funding. If he really did go for the NHS he could fund all the bribes in the world while staying within fiscal rules and Labour would probably still retain broad trust on caring about the NHS. (It could always argue they got a nominal increase, which is what Scottish governments have done)
I thought the strikes proved his hypothesis wrong, but subsequent events (accepting Cass etc) have showed the BMA are weak and willing to fold to government bullshit so Starmer and Streeting fucked up by not pressing their advantage.
>>2852330I wonder if Robert knows that white people are godless and that if he really wants a Christian Britain, he needs to be a bit more friendly to those of African descent?
>>2852338
Hey Nazi troll, why are you so scared to speak plainly? Are you that shamed of your own views?
Speak up you cuckolded little chud bitch. What is the other option?
>>2852345
But you do at least admit to being racist?
>>2852345
You said ethnic cleansing is moderate, then won't reveal your beliefs and cry about being called a nazi?
Where the fuck do you think you are retard? Your bullshit word games don't work here. Hang yourself.
>>2852348
Is naziism not defined by ethnic cleansing? What’s the threshold?
>>2852349Just ask him if he's racist.
If he can't admit to it, his shame is self-evident.
>>2852348
This isn't a libtard website you don't seem to be smart enough to understand your games of playing pretend and attempting trollish plausible deniability don't work
>>2852338
I agree, everyone who votes Reform should be sent back to their ancestral home of Africa.
>>2852356
How are BAMEs at all equivalent to the Japanese in China?
Funny how leftists are open about their beliefs while the extreme right have this deep sense of shame about their own opinions and act coy, trying to hide what they stand for.
Almost as if deep down they know they're all fucking muppets and psychos.
>>2852357
So are your rape gang fantasy numbers, but that's okay, you can take both of our lies to Kinshasa with you.
>>2852357
huh? since when
>>2852359
Little Simz and Stormzy are not why your life sucks
>>2852370
ok, how about, non white people are workers too dipshit.
>>2852370
Don't even have to be a Marxist even to understand racism and ethnic cleansing is bad.
Why can't you explain what you stand for? Can you put a label to your ideological views? Will you admit you're a racist?
>>2852384
Racism is a descriptive word.
>>2852384
You can't even say what you believe in you're so ashamed of yourself
>>2852386
How does ethnicity play into that? Is rape better or worse because a BAME does it?
>>2852389My guess is that he doesn't believe that "racism" actually exists (e.g. it was "invented" by Judeo-Bolsheviks like Trotsky to silence heroic truth tellers). This is the typical compromise: "yes, I fit the description of being a racist, but racism doesn't exist, so you need to find a new word, liberal!" It's pure semantics and pedantry to shift the goalposts.
>>2852393
>>2852393
How are migrants from Britain’s colonies equivalent to the colonial occupation forces Mao deported?
>>2852395
You are a racist. Why is this so bad to you? Own it.
>>2852402
Would they be less traumatic if the rapist was white?
>>2852403
Why do you hate being called racist? Why are you so upset?
All those posts he we was never once brave enough to state what his actual ideological beliefs were even when anonymous, how embarrassing.
>>2852417He doesn't have an ideology, he has a phobia of non-white people.
It is an aesthetic reflex, not a reasoned argument.
>>2852421
You are allowed to be a racist marxist-leninist.
>>2852424
>fair enough
Okay, so you are a racist communist
Most people here are anti-racist communists
So there is going to be obvious controversy
>>2852421
>for the record I'm a Marxist Leninist
Can you explain what's MList about racism and ethnic cleansing?
>>2852438
yeah true, you're not a communist
>>2852425
My materialist critique is that the terms are not set. Steve Laws says anyone after 1945 who isn't at least 50% Anglo-Saxon gets deported, including the Irish. Rupert Lowe says "millions must go" but doesn't specify who. Farage simply says that "illegal immigrants" will be deported. Others claim that both legal and illegal immigrants must go. So there is no content to critique as such. In terms of the mechanisms of immigration, you can simply deny asylum claims from unauthorised entries (the idea of the ECHR overriding British law is false, in actual fact). You can raise skilled worker visa salaries (Boris Johnson lowered them). You can limit application terms for foreign students (who make up the overwhelming majority of net migrants). That would be very basic. Other policies concern the deportation of foreign criminals, the deportation of naturalised citizens (e.g. immigrants who apply for citizenship after a period of 5 years either working, studying, or are related to those on a family visa) and the scrapping of indefinite leave to remain. The really controversial idea though is deporting second and third generation immigrants, since you would be revoking their place in the world. Further complications arise; if you are sending back descendants of the Windrush generation, how do you inform their nation of origin that they must now become citizens of that country? The logistics of this idea seem impossible without bankrupting the country, but of course Charlie Downes tells us that he would rather Britain be poorer than less white, so those are the terms.
A strict "materialist" analysis ultimately concerns "net contribution" to the economy (e.g. either a surplus or deficit in the balance of public funds). In the US at least, I believe that its only (self-described) white people who pay taxes more than they take them (in total). So, group factors are accounted for, but its also an individual issue. If you have a net contributor who is black and a net drain who is white, which person has greater legitimacy to citizenship, in materialist terms? We see in the Old Testament that groups are judged collectively; genocide, while in the New Testament, salvation is individual. Thus, as history advances, the individual becomes more essential. To put it another way (hypothetically), would you rather have tax-paying black people who spoke the King's english or a council estate full of white crackheads who can hardly jarble out a coherent sentence?
>>2852420
Then give us the practical, material reasons ethnic cleansing of the victims of the late victorian Holocausts from the country that stole their resources is either good or necessary. People love saying “import the third world, become the third world” while using sugar and oil and a million other things.
>>2852448
You haven't defined "remigration" so first state the premises.
What are you gonna do with all the mixed race families? Break them up? Send the white parents in those relationships away with their partners?
>>2852459Steve Laws says that as long as they are at least 50% white they can stay
>>2852460And be deprived of one of their parents, I’m sure that leads to good outcomes
>>2852362Reminds me of chuds trying to put up the act of le reasonable centrist dad when it comes to Epstein when they have spent the entirety of the 2010s all the way to today putting up histrionics to fan the flames of the moral panics on le gruming gangz and LGBTQ+ teachers supposedly grooming their students into being queer.
Likewise the same chuds that used to cry about free speech did a 180 degrees turn over Kirk and the left supporting Palestine over Israel. Like, even edgelords like Nick Fuentes were calling for a police state, a talking point that British reactionaries were echoing for self-serving reasons. And keep in mind that Trump has done more censorship than Biden and Obama, all ostensibly at Israel’s behest.
At this point, both the left and right wings of capital (neolibs and chuds respectively) have shown to be spineless and duplicitous controlled opposition. May both be buried under the rubble.
>>2852465Steve Laws says that you cannot have human emotions about the issue but that it is only iron necessity which must rule. Even race scientist Edward Dutton thought Steve was too heartless on the issue, but he is also a good point of extremity, to show the conflict.
>>2852469I was groomed into a heterosexual lifestyle
>>2852470How is it objectively good in any way for a child to lose a parent when they otherwise wouldn’t m? Have you seen the stats on life prospects of children of single parents?
>>2852475To Steve Laws, more white (e.g. less non-white) means more gooder. There is no other rationale except base racial tribalism. Everything else is secondary.
>>2852478Then maybe Steve Laws shouldn’t be taken seriously or have his policy proposals adopted
Remigration is a policy that speaks to the psychological cruelty of its advocates and enthusiasts (and their no longer getting a sufficient high from their previous demands being enacted now that even labour hate immigrants) rather than any serious analysis or desire. It is a positional policy, one you advocate to distinguish yourself from others as the edgiest little boy on the block. If it was granted, you'd see its advocates demanding that remigration wasn't enough, that we need colonialism or genocide to put the outsider in his place.
"Politics as personality" theory never fails
>>2852480Well, the proof is in the pudding. Steve Laws cannot justify it to himself within the horizon of basic human empathy, but rather sees remigration as a "necessary evil". If you have to deny yourself for anything, you are living in falsehood.
(incidentally, Hanania's conversion from white nationalist to autism score type shows how some parts of edgelordism can be reclaimed. "Forbidden knowledge" types who've got at least average intelligence can get into autism score pseudery and turn against their former comrades while filling q niche virtue signalling liberals wouldn't touch with a barge pole)
>>2852481Well as we have uncovered in the thread, "remigration" is the sloganeering of a Lacanian "signifier" (e.g. a term which only refers to itself, and nothing significant of it). I have tried to be forthcoming to our racist friend, but he seems to have encountered the limits of his own vice signalling in discovering its inner emptiness.
>>2852470For someone that wants cold steel rationality on immigration, he sure gets into histrionics over even petty migrant crimes, on the top of having to do damage control for his Nazi sympathies considering how he tries to ingrain himself in mainstream politics. There’s also the question on whether he’ll compromise his position since he doesn’t view Jews as any more legitimate than an Ugandan Anglican, but how will he sell his plan to the overwhelmingly Zionist British oligarchy that bankrolls the British section of the ChudIntern is another question.
Nonetheless, I think for all of his rhetoric that he will cave in, considering how Richard Spencer in the USA took entryism seriously only to be assimilated into the mainstream (in Spencer’s case, becoming part of the white nationalist sector of the US Democrats).
I won’t be surprised if Laws eventually turns into a washed out Tory or falls into irrelevancy given his penchant to try and take control of orgs like an entitled narcissist.
>>2852483Knowledge only remains "forbidden" where it is encoded in taboo. I habe read Mein Kampf - it was boring. The biggest foe to these cults of contrarians is to cast a light on the darkness.
The fastest growing demographic isn’t migrants or BAMEs themselves it’s those of mixed ethnicity, if you’re gonna continue to try snd have a racist culture it’s gonna have to be an English twist on La Raza Cosmica
>>2852491Latin America and Brazil proved this wrong, race mixing doesn’t even end racism, you can be any color and racist as hell
>>2852489Nazism is genuinely a BAME movement in the USA
Racism knows no boundaries, as per the old joke:
"a racist can have friends of other races… so long as they're racist too"
Thus, racism precedes its object of derision (e.g. it is unconscious).
>>2852494richard spender understoof this a d joined the democrats. if you want to be a serious racist you might as well join dems or labour
>>2852502Maybe dems but Labour are going to be smaller than the Lib Dems by next election because Andy is just another Kier and nothing will get fixed
>>2852492In Brazil’s case, it isn’t clear cut as while actual racism co-exists with performative rhetorical anti-racism, you have to remember that open white nationalism isn’t viable in the country, especially since Brazil’s hate speech laws are just as harsh if not moreso than British ones, especially as racism is a crime per the current Brazilian constitution for which there are no statute of limitations, and the same applies for sexism and anti-LGBTQ+ discrimination too.
I mean, Bolsanaro’s government was the furthest right post-junta right has ever gotten to, and even then he had to put up the act of civic nationalism, going as far as reneging on his anti-atheist comments made during his first campaign trail.
>>2852503The LibDems did enter into a coalition agreement with David Cameron’s Tories that last for 5 years from 2010 to 2015.
So maybe you’re right.
>>2852508It’s going to be a reform, lib dem, and the two tory mps left to form a Cordone Sanitaire against restore, labour, and greens, fuck I need to get into gambling
>>2852482basic human empathy is a spook
>>2852513It’s actually one of our main evolutionary advantages. That’s why you see it in other apex predator species like orcas, leopard seals, lions.
>>2852485It isn't an empty signifier, this is ridiculous
It's a term that is the product of a discourse resulting from the ethno nationalist movements in Britain
If groups like the CPB and RCP can manage to organise and do pointless shit, why can't we organise and do something useful?
>>2852544Because doing anything 'useful' (that is being able to contest political power) requires being a mass party with real popular support, and that is functionally impossible as long as the CPB, RCP, SWP, SPEW, etc. are all crowding the field. A mass communist party cannot emerge as long as the left is stuck in bureaucratic centralist confessional sects, leading to duplicated efforts by the few thousand organised british communists in a dozen isolated groups. Until there's a consensus achieved on unity and pluralism among communists and there's a single party for people to rally around and for open factions to discuss and argue programmatic questions in full view of the masses, there's no possibility of an organisation that can even reach the masses and organise for anything useful, only founding the nth sect that inevitably degenerates into desperate bureaucratic self-perpetuation due to isolation.
>>2852519anon its as illusionary as concepts like love and morality please understand the Stirnerite concept of spooks before commenting again
>>2852531>>2852330>While that wasn't caught on camera, the aftermath was as local south asian youths stepped in and beat the shit out of him and forced him to flee.Lmao. Link? I could do with a laff.
>>2852563A party is the wrong form for any current left vehicle with aspirations beyond running bin collections at the local council. Communist unity would be much less necessary if people built practical organisations that work regardless of the ideological perspective of their members.
Unfortunately when you follow this line of thinking to its conclusion you quickly realise the only types of people who can run such a thing set up businesses instead. One awkwardness of the minimum wage is that you can't set up an org that pays below minimum wage for useful work by appealing on ideological grounds, since otherwise firms would all claim to be doing so to skirt the law. (Why's that awkward? Be honest: you wouldn't doorknock for communists for free, fuck that, but imagine you could doorknock for communists to supplement your income at £5/hr with the remaining payment coming in the form of knowing you're fighting the good fight and that even if this isn't the one true micro party cult, money is money…)
YP is dead, Commies are splintered into 1000 micro-factions, Anarchism is non-existent, I don't trust the Greens not to lib out if they got near power.
Might as well just doss about and play video games all day at this point.
>>2852623The party is the only form capable of articulating an alternative political order and developing the level of organisation necessary for the working class to be able to contest political power and not merely managing capitalism, whether on the local council level or the state level.
The call for 'practical organisation' is invariably a call for functionally apolitical organisations that seek activity for activity's sake and which have no strategy or road to power whatsoever, just busying yourself 'making a difference' by being a charity.
>>2852646How about doss about 6 days a week and go to a commie meeting or march one day a week, seems a fair compromise and you're still doing more than 95% of people to make the world better
>>2852661Any idiot with a keyboard can articulate an alternative political order. Practical work is not an end in itself (activity for activity's sake) so much as a training mechanism for dealing with the real world (which parties have less than zero incentive to do)
If Your Party was a business it would be bankrupt, if it was a charity it'd be dead, but because it's a party it'll piddle on for at least a few more years wasting time and money. Mercifully, at least, it doesn't also waste a name.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gypnyk788oThe campaign to force parties to select candidates whose politics they don't like continues. Here you have Christian Groups and "Gender Critical" suing the Lib Dems because a guy was obviously saying homophobic shit in the Gay Middle Class Londoner Party.
>>2852869So fucking deranged, I hate this evil government so much
>>2852489I've been reading up on South Africa and the Black/White divide gets real confusing once you realise there's other categories, "Coloured" and "Indian" which are further sub divided.
It's a real bloody mess trying to make race-based laws, no wonder it collapsed at a nation scale.
>>2852330Oh yeah, I remember seeing some of his videos. Seems a bit young to be doing political commentary, and he was purposefully going into very left-wing areas with no bodyguards. All the comments were very concerned for his life and in at least one video, university students started stealing his stuff to shut him down until the campus police arrived. Otherwise, off-camera, he claims to have altercations with the Islamic pop-ups in the areas he usually goes to.
Between this and the Kirk and Trump assassinations it's fuelling the idea that the left wing is extremely violent. Feels like he's putting himself in these situations on purpose, really, he's very smug when he says "Reform aren't right wing enough". A bit of a thrill seeker, eh?
>>2852872>sex is real, immutable and importantCackling
>>2852536The term "remigration" both means everything and nothing, that's the point. Who are the "millions" who must go? Everything is implicit, but nothing is actually said. I ask our racist friend to define "remigration", and suddenly he stops posting. This is what I mean.
>>2852895>The term "remigration" both means everything and nothingAgain another ridiculous reduction of the term through abstraction from objective social processes that are involved in its reproduction and designation. He stopped posting not because of some absurd logical fallacy but because he was a racist who realised the game was up if he actually began to argue his views here and would be banned
Likewise with this idiotic aesthetized personal use of "BAME" which serves as an appellation for their own miserable racist pathology. The moment they use these terms they realise it is an ever shifting game of hiding non so subtle racialist positions behind seemingly neutral arguments (the arguments are never neutral, they are just idiots) in the perpetuation of this fantasy in which communists cannot be spoken to and must simply be propagandised or bludgeoned with a version of the truth much as they have been
>>2852898>>2852895Laughibly these idiots can't even be bothered to critically engage with their own position and the moment they are asked to do so they realise that they are incapable of actually providing to themselves any complex comprehension that doesn't involve reference to their libraries of great replacement statistics and simply devolve into trolling, the inevitable justification here being that communists are simply too stupid to understand that a) white people in fact do exist and therefore b) everybody who isn't white must be slaughtered in their sleep, this being hilarious because it causes moral offence and hence an obscene negation of pleasure
>>2852895>>2852900>>2852898Literally all this going to say that this endless repetition in which they return to this space in ever more tacit gradiations speaks to how unconditionally dependent they are on the implicit existence of media which simply propounds their views by forcing them into submission and hence their social alienation as individuals, namely that personally they depend on their inability to both think critically and communicate and must simply justify interaction through offence
They are the perfect consumer
>>2852900But even where it regards statistics, they are still subject to interpretation. Statistics cannot be 'racist' but racists can interpret statistics. So, the more facts we have, the more truth. This is also why the right-wing eroticism of "forbidden knowledge" needs to be smashed by a thorough openness and transparency. Thus, Hitler only remains a theological figure where Mein Kampf is not lauded as a boring piece of criticism. Where Hitler is banned, his mystique grows. De-mystify, always. Do not reduce anything to spectrality:
<A spectre is haunting Europe […] It is high time that Communists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the Spectre of Communism with a manifesto of the party itself.https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm Remigrate gammons to Doggerland
>>2852904But this is all Marxist gobbledegook isn't it, used to cover up the fact that we serve the Jews (and are cucks because we are not aware of it - Soros still hasn't paid me) and that one day the glorious volk of England will rise from the ashes in a utopia of white racial harmony and read Kipling in the fine summer sun
>>2852905You're beginning from an abstract position devoid of any real reason and arguing the fact that the production of social knowledge is unbiased, essentially a positivist position
Were any of these idiots here they would just rightly make reference of their growing collection of papers that justify autism score differentials based on racial disparity and cowe you into the absurdity of claiming that you refuse to accept science
Please read First Premises On Materialist Method
>>2852905>So, the more facts we have, the more truthThis is such as absurd position it is either sheer miracle or chance that you are not a racist
>>2852895The problem with a lot of policies is it's not very specific.
Let's say you want to give everyone free healthcare. Okay, does that include cosmetics? Does that include drugs? Does that include GP visits? Does that include mental health? Does that include massages? Gym? Ergonomics? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so should we include all preventative healthcare too?
The difference with remigration however is that it's much more heated if you cross a line. So, it could include those on welfare, it could include criminals (of which as seen in the US that might include even the pettiest of crimes), it may or may not include second generation immigrants.
If you, for example, step over the line of "second generation immigrants" then suddenly you're saying to the face of people who have lived in Britain their entire life "we're going to deport you". Of all the red lines, that's the biggest red line with remigration and a lot of people want it, but don't want to admit it because they'll be called out for it. So what happens it it usually becomes a combination of "remigration for second generation immigrants, but only those on welfare" or "only those who are repeat offenders".
On the other hand, if you say "we're not going to deport second generation immigrants" you'll drive the racists crazy. The issue is, the right wing is so popular right now because even more centrist-aligned people are pissed off about the establishment's failure to do anything more than stop the Boris wave (which has led to a decrease in immigration after Labour took office but means there is still a trend of increasing migration), that's what I'm observing.
Again, I don't think this is unique to this topic, having hard set guidelines just leads to disappointment and none of our governments have been doing that. What gets thrown around is the general idea of policies that make sense and the promise to shift the overton window.
>>2852869I really need leftists and liberals to start campaigning for the abolition of the EA2010. If both they and the Tories bang on about it the government might actually do it.
Then we campaign for the abolition of the supreme courtIt is intuitively "not a good look" but day by day examples pile up of how it's the most easily abused piece of legislation in the world. (I have an equality act protected philosophical belief worthy of protection in a democratic society that you are subhuman, your belief that you're a person would change in the face of evidence and impose an undue burden on the majority…)
>>2852869Deport gammons to doggerland and this stops happenning
>>2852916Actually I should add onto that, because sometimes healthcare policies could be very specific. "We should ensure medicine for diabetes is free or almost free". The problem is that's a very small step forward and if you are trying to make a huge step forward, like making US healthcare completely free, nobody will be campaigning for free diabetes medicine. It will be lumped under a grouped term and people won't be split on the smaller piecemeal issues. In the case of remigration specifically it's such a dramatic shift in policy that it's turned into a disorganised cacophony of different ideas flying under the same banner.
>>2852919It's a workable idea too, we need to do something with all those old oil rigs, and humane accomodation for gammon in a safe refuge from normal society would be just the ticket.
>>2852913Racists rely on limited facts for their arguments, so how is the expansion of facts itself limiting of truth? Truth cannot be racist, as I have explained, since racism is an unconscious disposition, not a rational argumentation.
>>2852911>I.Q.Why should I.Q. differentials be denied? What's so great about having a higher I.Q. on average than not? You are already inhabiting the racist frame by applying judgement upon the positive facts of the situation. I have with an accumulation of positive facts come to an anti-racist acceptance of group I.Q. differences, so there is nothing to fear for in your soteriology. Stop mystifying.
>>2852916>The problem with a lot of policies is it's not very specific.All policies are specific in matter of fact; laws apply clauses (what in logical procedures are "conditions").
>Let's say you want to give everyone free healthcare. I wouldn't begin with such a formulation, since nothing is "free". The NHS is classified as "free" at point of entry, meaning no additional charges, but costs themselves are implied within the service by taxpayer funds.
>The difference with remigration however is that it's much more heated if you cross a line. But "remigration" is not even clearly defined. It ranges from common sense deportation policies to racial pogroms. The pushing of the overton window works rhetorically, but politically, you need comprehension. This is why it's better to ask people what they would do in power rather than ask what ideas they think are good. Slogans dissolve at the threshold of legal codefication. This is also why I think political "manifestos" should publish proposed legal codes (e.g. constitutions) rather than policies and slogans. The utopian socialist Robert Owen would do this, as well as Marx and Engels.
>>2852931> cannot be racistThis is is a ridiculous contention in which you have fetishized a notion of truth and abstracted from the conditions of its material production
Hilariously you then accuse me of being racist by simply pointing out the contradiction contained in your premise through an extremely moronic contention of a valence between the existence of autism score differentials and their abstraction from social conditions, producing the ridiculous determinate situation that social relations are structured by biological realities
Again, your insistence upon this denial leads to the very issue that drives "racial science", chiefly a bias in methodology.
Likewise that you're asserting the primacy of "positive fact" on a Marxist board is absurd. Just admit you're a positivist and then fuck off and read and First Premises Of Materialist Method
"Ah but you are denying science, which is counter to Marx!"
Amazing
>>2852934>you have fetishized a notion of truth Facts are true.
>you then accuse me of being racistYou accept the racist frame by limiting the validity of facts.
>you're asserting the primacy of "positive fact" on a Marxist boardDid facts exist before fact checkers? Tell me.
>>2852936>Facts are true. This is about as ridiculous a statement as the statement "sex is real"
The fact that you earlier quoted Lacan and then produce horseshit like this speaks to your own inept misunderstanding of Marx's world
Again, read First Premises Of Materialist Method. It is at most a twenty minute read
>>2852936Truly, it makes us wonder. Did facts exist in tribal societies? Or under feudalism? What did they do before they could say whether things were true or not!
>>2852939So facts (self-defined as "true" things) are not true?
Tell me, O Christ, "what is truth"?
>Facts are true
The fact that you've said this is laughable and has already made the day worth it
>>2852941Facts are unconditional of belief.
If I am the only man in the world and make a truth-claim, I can still be wrong. The fact of subjective incorrectness shows objective truth in facts.
>>2852942Please read First Premises of Materialist Method for the Marxist response
>>2852945You are literally saying that [truth] is false
You exist in contradiction, which is why you can't actually answer.
>>2852944Truth-claim
Fucking screaming. The fact that you're a Marxist is just sheer fucking chance
>>2852947Fuck off and read First Premises you autistic moron
>Uhhhhh so you can't tell me what's true and what's not. You're as bad as the racists!
>>2852948>>2852949Again, you are saying [truth] is false.
>>2852951But you have no definition of truth. You are irrational.
>>2852952>You are irrationalTruly, the highest of sins
Fuck off and read First Premises you absolute moron. You're as bad as that idiot who produced a hundred thousand word screed on the merits of Popper and the scientific irrelevance of Marx's dialectic
>>2852953Humour me:
Is "First Premises" true?
>>2852955Read it and find out
"fact" is a floating signifier. Plenty of untrue things are memorised as "facts", so "fact" drifts very quickly from "that which is true" to "that which is believed to be true"
what are you nonces going on about now
I think we can all agree that recording more data on impartial and unbiased grounds is good, anything else is just hogwashing
>>2852958But that's a truth-claim!
>>2852957How do I find out what is true or not?
>>2852958>Plenty of untrue things are memorised as "facts"If something is untrue, it is not a "fact". It is self-defined in the term.
>drifts very quickly from "that which is true" to "that which is believed to be true"Right, and as I say, a subjective truth-claim can be incorrect, and so truth is unconditional of belief. To thus call a belief a "fact" is wrong.
>>2852962>How do I find out what is true or not?In your case by using your brain
>>2852963>In your case by using your brainUsing my brain for what? Right now my nervous system is activated, but you must mean something specific. So what is it? How do I judge between what is true or not? How do you do it?
>>2852965God knows, I'm a Marxist
>>2852966>I'm a MarxistSo is Marxism true?
>>2852968Read First Premises and find out
>>2852969So you cannot say that Marxism is true or not, yet you merely have faith that it may be true?
>>2852971Hilariously this contravenes your own position and poses truth itself as an inherently subjective criterion
Read First Premises you fucking dunce, stop arguing with your poor understanding of the philosophy of science
>>2852976So it appears confirmed then, you cannot say that Marxism is true, and so you live by mere faith, and not knowledge.
>>2852977Read the fucking text you moron
>>2852979Is Marxism true?
Or do you merely 'believe' that it may be true?
>>2852980Read the fucking text
>>2852981You call yourself a "Marxist" like someone calls themself a "Christian", it seems. An irrelevant declaration of identity which gives comfort in the sense of being "the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions". Your beliefs confer nothing about the reality of the world, so why insist upon it?
>>2852984Why should I read something which is apparently untrue?
>>2852985So you'll shut up
>>2852986But this is again irrational. Reading something apparently untrue would not keep me from further replies, so you have a false sense of causation in this statement. Now that I have stated the fact of the matter, you should no longer insist upon my reading of the text since it will not 'shut me up'. Any further attempt will display what is often referred to as "the definition of insanity", and so you will not simply be irrational, but also insane.
>>2852987>But this is again irrationalYou shutting up? I bet it is
>>2852988If me 'shutting up' is "irrational" and you demand it, then you are plainly admitting to your irrationality in this statement. Do you accept that you are irrational, or did you perhaps mis-type?
>>2852990Now, see how your persistence has moved from basic irrationality toward insanity. This is an unfortunate state of affairs, but by this public diagnosis, I hope that in a healthy manner of lucidity, you are finally freed from this captive condition of incorrect thinking.
>>2852993I accept your concession
Shit, maybe there is something to this reading business
>>2852995I hope you get better, anon.
>>2852997And I hope you read that fucking text
BAME workers and their kids are not why your life is shit and nothing works
>>2853017Yes because race doesn’t exist, that’s a scientific fact
>>2853018But facts are true
>>2853020Any BAME that’s been a cunt to you wasn’t being a cunt to you because they’re BAME but because they’re a cunt. It’s that simple.
>>2853020Any BAME that’s been a cunt to you wasn’t being a cunt to you because they’re BAME but because they’re a cunt. It’s that simple.
>>2853023That's a truth-claim. Care to prove that?
>>2853016Racism is often devoid of material analysis. There is a very useful BBC article here about the decline of wealth after the 2008 crisis:
<The Resolution Foundation calculated that had wages continued to grow as they were before the financial crash of 2008, the average worker would make £11,000 more per year than they do now, taking rising prices into account […] what are known as "real wages" haven't seen sustained growth for 15 years […] Since the financial crash of 2008, many countries have struggled to increase productivity. But the UK has struggled more than most. It averages growth of 0.4% a year, well below the average of developed nations. One reason for that is the make-up of the UK economy. Services, like finance, retail, hospitality and leisure, make up 80% of our economy. It is traditionally harder to increase productivity in these areas.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64970708So the reason why things have gotten worse is that we are less productive than other nations. The UK is particularly affected.
>>2853023Exactly. This is why you know the right doesn't care about rape itself, because there are never any riots when whites rape each other.
>>2853024Maybe BAME was a cunt to OP because OP is a cunt?
>>2853032Cunts exist in all shapes and sizes. Be anti-cunt generally.
>>2853026good post, though i would quibble with the BBC's explanation as-such: most first world economies are high-70 low-80% services, so while it's true that increasing productivity in services is traditionally harder, it cannot serve as an explanation for britain's relative decline.
this is important because "dude just make steel again lmao" fantasies are now a universal fetish, all sides of british politics want to turn back the clock on deindustrialisation instead of embracing the stuff we're actually good at. even dominic cummings, who had a smart little plan for making us the university of the world, has shelved that to whine about net zero making it too expensive to manufacture stuff here. (not even true, our energy prices are high because of our fake-privatized electricity sector uses an asinine pricing system that encouraged excessive dependency on gas power in a world where every 15 minutes some dickhead starts a war that shuts down the global gas supply.)
>>2853035>most first world economies are high-70 low-80% services, so while it's true that increasing productivity in services is traditionally harder, it cannot serve as an explanation for britain's relative decline.Well, looking at data, the most capital-intensive (e.g. industrialised) countries in the EU receive the highest wages, so there is correlation.
>this is important because "dude just make steel again lmao" fantasies are now a universal fetishSure, but we still need to balance trade, not simply exist in deficit to China forever, since this drains away our national accounts. If anything, we should at least make a lot of our own stuff like we used to.
>>2853040Capital intensiveness and industrialisation are not so simple. McDonalds is a service business, but the reason it's cheaper and more productive than its competitors is that it's more capital intensive. Britain does have a problem with underinvestment and with a poor trade balance, but the most rational scenario for "status quo" management (e.g. assuming we don't go communist and don't face a succession of catastrophic wars and climate disasters that change the game entirely) would be to prioritise increasing productivity and exports in our service sector, rather than throwing money and labour after the idea that we'd be a rich country if only we manufactured flat pack tables domestically instead of getting them on a boat. The solution to our deficit with China is to find something we're good at that China wants - which is more likely to be university degrees, english language media, etc, than cars and laptops.
>>2853035The idea that certain nations are better at making steel than others is idiotic, we should strive to produce as much of our own needs as possible. If we fill our own needs then we should fill those of other countries. It's either that or the whole economy is build on selling bombs to Israel.
>>2853061Sure, but again, if we build some of our own industry, there is less of a deficit to make up the difference with, and so it becomes a competitive advantage over all. For example, if exports remain constant but imports decrease, our trade balance improves.
>>2853082This quite clearly isn't going to happen due to capital investment costs in proportion to say China
>>2853085Well, the price for independence can be costly.
We can be like Gordon Brown and simply sell off our public assets or we can have some type of self-sufficiency.
>>2853088Pray tell, how will you accomplish this all without nationalisation
How big are those north sea reserves? If the UK used north sea oil exclusively how quickly would it deplete?
>>2853091I never suggested anything besides nationalisation.
Before Thatcher, most of our public utilities were nationalised, and before Major, our railways were nationalised. Britain had some small spike in economic activity from Blair to Brown, but has been stagnating ever since. I am not optimistic about neoliberalism.
>>2853085Not everything is about cost cutting. I get your point that maybe steel doesn't make a huge amount of sense but surely there has to be some manufactured goods we can make a profit on in this country besides arms. Why can't we build cars, planes, etc? Or at the very least we could launch a huge public works program to improve our collapsing infrastructure and build enough homes for everyone.
>>2853026Business owners started using immigration to suppress wages.
Business owners pay employees less, but these employees can then claim benefits, so the taxpayer pays the rich person. Either that, or the employees have to live in shared accommodation and in worse conditions.
We need to end this lie already that British people "don't want to do the jobs" and that we should just be paying them a living wage.
>>2853065It's not idiotic at all, even before you introduce comparative advantage or any other economic principles Nauru obviously has far less land to give over to a gigantic polluting steel mill than China does, landlocked Uganda has far less capacity to export steel than coastal Korea does, and so on.
We sell bombs to Israel because we've got an asinine policy of being totally slavish to the US (for which the logical step is to buy all our weapons from them for interoperability advantages + low unit costs) while also producing our own bespoke weapons as a subsidy to the arms industry even though that results in overpriced weapons that don't work and don't interoperate with our allies very well. It is, in fact, downstream of this stupid idea that there's something morally upstanding about "self sufficiency" and something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel.
>>2853082This is true as it goes, but it's a question of where capital is best invested. If both exports and imports increase but exports increase by twice as much as imports, our trade balance also improves. There is a world where we throw vast sums of money at a reindustrialisation scheme (which will no doubt require imports in the short run) only for it to totally flop as consumers reject overpriced low-quality domestic goods, where the same money thrown at tourism or education would've generated export revenue.
>>2853088There is no such thing as independence in the manner you envision. Is Germany really more independent than Britain just because it runs a massive trade surplus?
>>2853091Nationalisation just makes things worse by lowering failure standards. Fundamentally the problem with Britain is a lack of institutional talent and experience, particularly since we destroyed a lot of it. This is true in both our public and private sectors. If you really insist that Britain must have domestic industry, the best way to start would be to bring in a bunch of Chinese or Korean managers and have them set it up. (Though this has the problem that they've got very strong incentives to do a Malaysia on us and have us just make intermediate goods for Chinese or Korean firms without capturing much value ourselves.)
>>2853098Britain never seriously tried neoliberalism. Other than airlines basically every privatisation was fake, into a state-regulated market with stupid state-regulated incentives to be a stupid state-regulated cunt. Not in a "they won't even let you put arsenic in foods these day" whining sense either, in the sense of: we privatised electricity but left pricing decisions in the hands of the state. We privatised railways but left basically every detail of the contract for each franchise's routes, frequencies, ticket prices, etc, in the hands of the state. Idiotic! Half of these things shouldn't have been privatised even if corporatised and the other half should've been privatised for real.
>>2853102We do actually build engines and wings for planes, it's one of the things we're good at and the kind of high-value-added (but low employment) industries we'd do well to focus on as a small but important aside to a services-focused economic strategy. (I've left it out so far because it'd distract from the wider point that our primary advantages lie in services), and we should also start massive public works programs (although in UK classifications, construction
is a service industry.)
>>2853111Since nobody'll like what I'm selling anyway, I'll advance a fun contentious theory: one problem with Britain's labour market is that the minimum wage is too high for an optimal distribution of British labour. It's not that it's actually enough to live on, but that the pay differences between low-end occupations are squeezed. Why would you be a social care worker for 25p an hour more than you get in a supermarket? So people wait for supermarket jobs to open up rather than taking social care positions, in some cases, people who
would take a social care position if it was £5 an hour more than working in a supermarket.
If you just pay everyone a living wage you wind up at the same place you started, because the differential between wages hasn't changed. Unfortunately the only pragmatic solution to this would be to fix the economy in general and then throw some revenue at subsidising social care, since the alternative (squeezing or abolishing the minimum wage) would be ugly and miserable.
unless minimum wage abolition was paired with UBI, which isn't a bad idea…Personally, no amount of money would get me working in social care, short of some pretty draconian reforms that make it the only alternative to starvation. But that's just me, everyone has their own preferences.
>>2853146We used to have the young adults working those sorts of jobs, then you can pay off university and not be in lifelong debt. I just don't get what the issue is, it seems like we're hyper-focused on educating our people for 25 to 30 years and then letting them flee our country at our expense. They can say the education drives GDP but it also causes horrendously low birth rates and now we're getting less people actually being employed.
As for subsidising social care … The conservatives already gave the boomers everything they could ever need. Triple lock pensions and every one of them that owns a house is a millionaire now, how can they not afford to pay someone to take care of them? Assuming we're talking about old people for social care.
We have people who can work, it's just clear that capitalism doesn't work with an immigration-heavy structure, where more than ever people are hopping from job to job because employers don't want to train employees in the long term and can easily abuse a cheap labour market.
>>2853146Omg you're the 'it wasn't real neoliberalism' guy, what is even the point in arguing when your position is so fundamentally inane.
Why are you bringing up Nauru, so ridiculous.
>>2853146ok let me give a real rebuttal.
>We sell bombs to Israel because we've got an asinine policy of being totally slavish to the US (for which the logical step is to buy all our weapons from them for interoperability advantages + low unit costs) while also producing our own bespoke weapons as a subsidy to the arms industry even though that results in overpriced weapons that don't work and don't interoperate with our allies very well. It is, in fact, downstream of this stupid idea that there's something morally upstanding about "self sufficiency" and something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel. in terms of arms contracts, you may be right that there's some element of irrational protectionism going on there, though I do think that they probably do bring money into the UK economy to some extent.
>something morally wrong about selling music and comedy to a nation of steelmakers in exchange for some steel.this is such a cock-eyed view of the world. as if China et al will be content to forever be 'a nation of steelmakers' and content to not develop any culture industries of their own. we are already seeing chinese media products sweep the west and china beginning to turn their noses up at western cultural imports, so this argument doesn't even make sense, the 'IP nation' niche is quickly becoming non-viable. not to mention that the culture industry can only provide employment to a tiny number of people in the first place compared to steelmaking etc.
>We do actually build engines and wings for planes, it's one of the things we're good at and the kind of high-value-added (but low employment) industries we'd do well to focus on as a small but important aside to a services-focused economic strategy. Yes we do a small amount of this kind of work but not enough to make a difference. There's no reason we should have let our car industry die, that was not economically rational in any way. deindustrialisation absolutely ravaged the economy as well as the average worker's standard of living.
>Since nobody'll like what I'm selling anyway, I'll advance a fun contentious theory: one problem with Britain's labour market is that the minimum wage is too high for an optimal distribution of British labour. It's not that it's actually enough to live on, but that the pay differences between low-end occupations are squeezed. Why would you be a social care worker for 25p an hour more than you get in a supermarket? So people wait for supermarket jobs to open up rather than taking social care positions, in some cases, people who would take a social care position if it was £5 an hour more than working in a supermarket.I feel this is not a problem of the minimum wage being too high, people on minimum wage are already struggling to survive atrocious rent prices etc, but of there being little to no income upward mobility in the UK besides a very small number of elite jobs. the entire economy is fucked (largely because of deindustrialisation)
>>2853160I would abolish tuition fees personally, that handles student debt quickly and easily. For most other stuff you can cross compare internationally to see what's a general flaw of the status quo and what's a Britain specific malaise. (e.g. most countries have underemployed graduates to some extent but only Britain has wage stagnation)
>>2853168Nauru obviously demonstrates the principle that some nations are better equipped to make steel than others, since Nauru is clearly a bad site for a steel mill.
You could not articulate my position in any detail, so you are in no position to call it inane. You don't even know what you're disagreeing with or what premises I'm working from.
>>2853170I will reply in detail when I have more time but fundamentally I will underscore once again that the majority of a developed economy is services. Even China, the manufacturing center of the world is a majority service economy! (61% of GDP)
Though I will reintroduce a hobby horse before I forget: devolve power to regions. Stop thinking nationally. If part of this country is well suited to manufacturing then let it specialise in that, rather than trying to draw up a one size doesn't fit most strategy for the nation as a whole.
(The only risk is that this boosts the chance of getting Malaysia'd even more)
>>2853171>Nauru obviously demonstrates the principle that some nations are better equipped to make steel than others, since Nauru is clearly a bad site for a steel mill.yeah but it's such a ridiculous argument because it doesn't apply to the UK in any way. you might as well be like 'it's wrong to say that any country will benefit from a strong transport infrastructure, because vatican city is so small, you can just walk everywhere, high speed rail would be a waste'. it's a ridiculous nitpicking of the main point
>I will reply in detail when I have more time but fundamentally I will underscore once again that the majority of a developed economy is services. Even China, the manufacturing center of the world is a majority service economy! (61% of GDP) and did I say we should have no services? obviously no, but manufacturing/resource extraction/etc should be the bedrock of any economy in order for it to be stable
>Though I will reintroduce a hobby horse before I forget: devolve power to regions. Stop thinking nationally. If part of this country is well suited to manufacturing then let it specialise in that, rather than trying to draw up a one size doesn't fit most strategy for the nation as a whole. I mean ok, I guess, obviously I don't think we should build steel mills in canary wharf
>>2853171I'm trying to reason why the UK would have wage issues whereas other European countries supposedly aren't, but all I can think of is the UK devolving to the same level as previously less wealthy countries. Poland and Sweden for example used to be very poor. If other countries are apparently not having the same wages problem then I can't pin it on immigration since other countries have it just as bad.
Yeah, I dunno, shit's fucked in the UK specifically and I don't get it. But apparently people still want to come here. I sure don't, I want out, but we're not in the EU so I have very few choices of where I can go.
>>2853170You are mistaken to think that the culture industry's employment prospects are limited. 2.4 million people work in UK "creative industries" (a small part of the overall service sector) despite us half-arsing supporting and promoting it and allowing it to totally centralise on London, versus 2.6 million for the entire manufacturing sector and 36,000ish in steel specifically. You might go "ah, but that's because we've only got a vestigial steel industry" but you'd be wrong: South Korea and Japan are the 4th and 6th largest steel producers in the world respectively and they both only employ about ~100,000 people.
The very reason that it's so much easier to increase productivity in industry is also the reason it's not that useful for increasing employment: because capital substitutes for labour. Manufacturing's share of employment has fallen much faster than it's share of GDP. Indeed, despite "deindustrialisation" our manufacturing output is actually higher in absolute terms than it was the 1980s. (e.g. we make more stuff in value-terms, though as a share of everything we make it's fallen. 2.6 million people today produce more than 6 million did in 1980, and this is a universal phenomenon. Even now, China's manufacturing employment is below peak while its value only climbs…)
You don't have to presume that China will forever be content to make steel. Perhaps China will entirely give up on it (unlikely), but even if they do it's entirely likely someone else will take their place. The wonderful thing about an open global economy (something we should seek to retain) is that you can move this sort of thing around. Maybe one day international investors will be begging to open steel mills in Britain, but until that day comes around you'd want to be pretty certain of success before throwing large sums of money at getting Britain into an industry where almost everyone is having their lunch eaten by the leading player.
Our car industry only died from a prestige perspective: we still make cars, we just don't design them anymore.
About 180,000 people work in car manufacturing. In France, who still have their own car brands and designs, it's 215,000, while the Czechs have 172,000 and the Poles have 209,000. Germany, the car factory of the continent, has 870,000, but they're the outliers and throwing large sums of money at trying to knock them off the top spot is hardly likely to pay dividends.
The average worker's standard of living increased until 2008, which is where Britain really diverged from the rest of the developed world thanks to a succession of terrible policy decisions + old bad ideas catching up with us.
That said, the way deindustrialization was handled under Thatcher was asinine and politically motivated. (e.g. the mining industry was a dud, but it could've and should've been wound down slowly, it was shuttered quickly for entirely political reasons with negative economic effects. north sea oil was pissed up the wall on dole and tax cuts, and ravenscraig steel mill was shut down by the then-nationalised british steel instead of being privatised as the scottish secretary wanted.)
High rents come in large part from failure to build. This is partially political again (right to buy was in itself a half-defensible policy, but banning councils from using the money to build more council houses was power-centralising bullshit.), partially regulatory (planning applications are a nightmare and it's not because of fucking newts), and to a slight degree an unfairness in the tax system (landlords don't have to pay NI but you do).
Our general economic malaise has very little to do with deindustrialisation, which is a phenomenon that has hit the entire first world. Our single biggest problem is being addicted to central control from London, plus a bunch of micromanagement and regulation of a tedious and usually wrongheaded sort. (All controlled from London, naturally.)
>>2853176It establishes the principle that obviously some countries are better at manufacturing steel than others. Britain clearly has to think more carefully than China, but less carefully than Nauru, about whether it would like to surrender large swathes of land to the steel industry. It's also a microcosm of all the other little details: our population is big enough to support a steel industry (unlike Nauru) but small enough that we should think a bit about how to most efficiently utilise labour (unlike China).
Manufacturing and resource extraction are no more stable than services and indeed are arguably less so. (See the travails of north sea oil, the current Iran war basically underscoring that fossil fuels are a giant liability, the constant struggles of everyone's steel industry, or basically all car companies suddenly getting china shock'd… Then there's farming, perhaps the single most unambiguously necessary sector and one that it's desirable to maintain some capacity in, but it is
also constantly whining about being broke despite subsidy, and only makes up a tiny percentage of GDP.)
A point of trivia: France is in the odd position of having manufacturing contribute more to employment than to GVA (~GDP) with about 9% of GDP and 11% of employment in manufacturing. In South Korea, for example, it's more like 15% of employment (still lower than 1980s Britain! Technology!) and 26% of GVA, and in Britain it's 8% of employment and 9.5% of GVA. (The US, for reference, is 8% of employment!)
If we are honest, the main appeal of manufacturing is aesthetic and nostalgic. We have a nice neat model for how you build social(ism/democracy) by getting all the miners together, while figuring out what to do with a bunch of nurses and artists and teachers is a new one. Modern manufacturing is not, itself, particularly aesthetically pleasing. (Our biggest manufacturing sub-sector is actually food and drink, e.g. all those meal-deal sandwich factories in Northern Ireland. Not exactly the shop floor at British Leyland.)
>>2853220We haven't seen productivity growth while they (mostly) have. I think the root of the rot is that we love centralisation in both our public and private sectors, so control is always far away and arbitrary, and when someone makes a wrong decision at the centre it's forced on everyone else rather than lessons being learned from different areas trying different things and feeding back to one another.
(Then there are the other more standard explanations: Britain has dismally low capital investment in both the public and private sector, the public sector cuts being easy to explain politically but the private sector ones less so. It likes to keep workers unskilled and work labour-intensive rather than investing in capital equipment and training, probably for dubious class reasons. It kneecapped itself by leaving the EU to no real benefit. It's overly centralised on London, with every other city a distant second place. It has had something like 11 industrial strategies since 2010.)
Finally: we don't really like to let unproductive firms die, which is important for getting productivity up. We love to let them limp on in one way or another, which means they tie up workers who could better be deployed elsewhere. This was also part of why Japan stagnated. Firms that didn't have any money to invest in improving, but did have enough to keep limping on doing little more than paying their debts clogged up the labour market and various sectors. Covid put some of them out of their misery, but they've not really been replaced by new firms because we've also got quite high barriers to entry for new businesses.
Are you feeling devolved, anons?
Idk guys, lately I’ve been thinking about emigrating from the UK now that this place is becoming a bigger and bigger dump, especially as the white lumpen growing in size as a result of the British middle class becoming increasingly downwardly mobile in terms of social class. Combine that with even the leftist mainstream parties being unwilling to stop the ruling class and its propaganda outlets from priming the Brits to fascism, and shit just makes me anxious.
I’m thinking of leaving, but disability aside I also want to take with me my senior parents, but that would be hard. I don’t even have a STEM master’s.
I’m not even in a position to fight back, plus the UK government is made up of idiots who seem more interested in making the life of us serfs miserable.
Given how many Britons want to leave their country, I’m not sure what’s to be done, but what can I do?
It feels like being in Germany just before the eve of Hitler’s takeover.
>>2854148I'm retiring early to the Falklands
>>2854148What country will allow you to stay there as an immigrant?
>>2854152I’ve been thinking about some commonwealth country, but even that is stretching it. I’m not particularly optimistic about it.
>>2854148You can live in Ireland freely thanks to the common travel area. Live there long enough and you've got a right to claim citizenship or permanent residence, which gets you an EU passport. That's the best option for all of us who got fucked by aus/NZ/Canada killing their "free citizenship for British passport holders" gimmick in the 70s and replacing it with wanky immigration systems that require you to have skills in a shortage area (the worthless non-racist bastards)
Escape is eminently possible. Not easy, but possible.
You will live in a suburban shithole, you will be precariously employed, and you WILL enjoy it
>>2854192Basically this or a wander off the top of a parking garage.
>>2853576Yeah, I agree with most if not all of that. The UK keeps its taxes low and lets its public services suffer. If you go to other countries like Sweden you'll see the roads are 10x better than our own in every way. Obviously we have a space issue with building roads but it's clear we're always working on a tight budget.
Problem is, the UK is now looking at raising its taxes and the more it doest that, the more we'll get emigration to Australia and other places with favorable conditions.
The only possibility to fix this I can see is to cut back on a ton of wasteful government spending but that's a very obvious thing for me to say. It sucks we're so economically dependent on London but if we're only doing online service sorts of businesses anyway it's going to be hard to move people out of there. Especially because travelling around this country sucks ass.
>>2854148Same as everyone else, white flight. It's happening in London and it's spread outwards until it's reached me as well. Both the left and right wings of the country want to leave, it's impressively bad. You can't get a home without being a millionaire now.
I'm considering a few places, one of which is Spain. Spain is quite liberal, taxes are worse but for your first few years you can get 'David Beckham' taxes which are similar to the UK. Quite easy to get a visa for remote working, along with Portugal. Portugal also lets you buy a house to get residency if you have enough money, I believe. Other places I'm looking at are low tax.
I've got a Mexican friend who wants to get a Spanish passport though so I'm gonna try it out.
Unfortunately, between leaving the EU and the immigration crisis, every country surrounding us (besides Ireland) has made it impossible for us to gain residency there even though UK emigrants ranked as the highest contributors in Denmark's data.
I tried getting a visa in an EU country the other year and I found out that you have to wait years to get a response and if you open any other request they automatically cancel it, you get fucked and they have never responded to my refund request.
You can have a clean record, prestigious degree, top bracket earnings and it'll feel as if nobody wants you. If you earn enough you can get the EU blue card but you need a business to be contracting you for that.
>>2854199Statistically, in a universe, you will simply float upwards to heaven after doing so
Perhaps with any luck it is this one
>>2854254Ok, but imagine you were talking to BAME leftists. What then doe?
Because given the internationalisation of the ChudIntern things will get worse for our racial minorities if they move out of the UK to somewhere in Europe, even for mixed-race people that can’t pass as white British.
I guess race is redundant here as ALL British citizens face the same problems when it comes to emigrating elsewhere.
Although the main issue as I see it is how emigration has turned into a cargo cult. Like, have you seen the abundance of British nationals trying to flee Dubai during the first days of the Iran war? But that’s not all as the biggest problem isn’t the cargo cult aspect of it, as much as that emigration only serves as a relief valve for revolutionary pressure against the capitalist state, and I’d argue that in places like London wealth inequality and concentration of oligarchs contributes to the affordability crisis more than anything else.
>>2854264>doeCan you not communicate like a five year old
>>2854264In theory any of us could use less legal migration paths. In fact, I'm well aware that you can abuse some systems by entering legally and then making last minute claims and appeals.
But it's very stressful. I understand the people who are here pseudo-legally and illegally are under that same stress, never sure of what will happen tomorrow and their ability to move restricted.
On the other hand, there are things that are different. If I get banned from the EU, that's a nightmare, because my home base is Britain and every country around it is the EU and I can't simply walk over a land border into the EU. If you're British-born then you probably won't have another country that'll easily accept you either though, and that also means your parents are probably in Britain which is another thing anchoring you onto this island.
If you don't have that then you have to look at what benefits you're getting by being here and right now, for me, I'm not getting anything that benefits me. The local GP shut down and it's even harder to get an appointment now, there's not even a pharmacy here. The roads are shit, if I even used them, but it's not great for bikes either. Feels like any tax I pay is just chucking it into a black hole.
If you're getting disability then you at least have a reason to stay, I guess.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/29/burnham-sets-out-vision-to-transform-britain-and-fix-broken-systemThe article is fluff save for this partial bit of reporting:
>Long-term ambition of greater public control of essential services such as water, housing, energy and transport to help curb the cost of living.
>A No 10 North hub to oversee the distribution of power and resources from Whitehall across the country, which the Guardian revealed would be run by his former chief executive in Manchester.
>The biggest council housing building programme since the postwar period, and a high street “renaissance” through reform of business rates.
>Rebalancing an education system that he said had been too focused on the university route and putting academic and technical courses on an equal footing. >>2854318As if by a miracle Burnham intends to stick to Reeves "fiscal rules" whilst accomplishing the largest building of council housing since the post war period
>>2854318His Devolution just feels like Osborne-Cameron nonsense all over again.
Manchester United announced it had secured the majority of the land needed to build a new 100,000-seat stadium. The 25-acre site, located 350 metres north-west of Old Trafford, between Wharfside Way, Europa Way and John Gilbert Way, was purchased from Indurent, a UK warehouse landlord owned by the American private equity giant Blackstone Inc. The price was undisclosed. The deal was described as a “significant milestone.”
On the same day, Andy Burnham left office, sworn in as an MP for Makerfield and standing down as Mayor of Greater Manchester. The BBC, reporting the land deal in a sports dispatch, noted the two events in the same breath without drawing the connection.
Multiple sources told the BBC that only the government can now alter the multi-billion pound masterplan, regardless of which party Burnham’s successor as mayor comes from. That detail was reported and then left to stand without analysis.
What he did not say, and what the mainstream commentary largely missed, was that this was a Labour mayor co-signing a Tory deregulation framework, embedding Greater Manchester into a national architecture of investment zones and freeports that Labour had officially opposed.
what a Burnham government would mean nationally. Because the logic of the Greater Manchester Investment Zone, public money de-risks, private capital profits, workers wait for the jobs that may or may not materialise at the displacement rates the promoters never mention, is exactly the logic that Starmer has scaled up across the entire country.
If Burnham’s answer is that he would do it differently at a national level, he owes the public an explanation of why he did it this way in Manchester.
https://open.substack.com/pub/europeanpowell/p/the-zone-builder-how-andy-burnham?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=webJust read a story about a potential homeowner buying leasehold but promised freehold after 2 years of living there. After 18 months, the freehold was passed to another firm and now the prices of everything have increased. Protestors described it as "feudal".
>>2854308>>2854264>>2854254>>2854148You can go to france, lots of UK people there
>>2854877Thrice they tried to crown Caesar, and thrice he refused
The reactionaries are calling to abolish the monarchy because the king is a liberal or something - should we let them do the work for us?
>>2854886You’d think after Franco and the Nepali royal massacre all the right would have learned you can’t trust royals
https://xcancel.com/kangminlee/status/2068533771222106462“No no it’s not the number m’kay, but about muh feelz”
t. Wannabe white Sork Christcuck
Pure idealist brainrot. Honestly, I thought Hanania would go along with this, but kudos to him for actually showing how full of crap chuds are. I guess the chuds were too prole-coded on this for him to tag along. Honestly, the British left would do a better job laughing to their faces with the same vigour as Mao and Stalin when they faced their enemies, much like this Jewish woman did:
https://xcancel.com/Donna_Rachel_/status/2066919466949063158Inb4
>Yikes, that Jewish ethnonarcissistic shitlibYh yh, she’s a hysteriac too and never thought that the UK has counties, but honestly I think her laughing should be everyone’s reaction to right wing concern trolls, especially since they’re no different than the woketards they used to complain about back in the 2010s atp.
But yh, my broader point are these:
- The British left should stop acting like it’s the 2010s and act like they’re already in revolutionary times of the kind Russians faced in the aftermath of WW1, or Weimar Germany in the early 1930s. Fact is, the fascists and blackshirts of our times don’t have just the backing of the world’s richest man who is also a Nazi big tech overlord, but also much of the UK’s rootless cosmopolitan oligarchic class as exemplified by the 55 Tufton street think tanks funded by “dark money” shady deals, and they support the hooligan and lumpen riots, and there are many of them who are barely sentient and whose response to ragebait is Pavlovian. Right now the only advantage we have is that they are still unorganised and divided. But time is running out.
- Whether it’s via the various links between fascist paramilitaries, the aid of the MI5, or state incompetence, In sure these fascists will have some way to arm themselves to the teeth. If the British left actually cares about winning, then at the very least they shouldn’t be averse to using guns or actually train street brawlers, especially as the state is cracking down on us anyway. It’s a call for revolutionary preparedness, not for individualist adventurism of the kind Lenin opposed in his days.
I’m saying this because I have a friend, an Asian British leftist, and he couldn’t decide as to whether he stay and tend to his ailing mother and fight for his country or emigrate in fear of a fascist takeover of the UK, especially after seeing the carnage of Northern Ireland. And, much like Sartre told a Frenchman who had a similar dilemma during WW2, I told him that no matter what he did that none of his decisions would be morally wrong and that he couldn’t be faulted for it anyway.
But is it just my friend? No, as I see the same level of anxiety among my white British comrades who are torn between staying and fighting or retreat elsewhere, as many feel hopeless and apathetic about the land they call home, especially trans comrades who don’t see any hope here, especially as the greens have backed Burnham who, much like Starmer, will flip-flop his positions based on clout and political expediency.
I too feel down, but I do think we can pull this through. I just don’t think liberal democracy as it existed in the 2010s or even today will survive, instead turning to fascism to protect capital considering how little pushback there is against eurochuds in general unless they go up against some powerful figure or step into the wrong shoe. That, or it’ll collapse pacing way for sectarianism and civil war. Many here thought it was unlikely, until the 2026 Belfast riots occurred. Whenever rioting dies down, it just ends up coming back again. Rinse and repeat. This is a clear sign of society starting to disintegrate.
That’s why I don’t think electoralism is a viable strategy for the British left anymore. Besides lacking strong social media control combined with a Labour government too cowardly to take on the MUSkrat, American big tech and the USA as a whole, best you can do is try to recruit anons to your side in the DMs one by one if you’re going to do slacktivism, besides trying to troll chuds and radlibs whilst dropping facts just enough for the neutral lurkers. Now, I won’t discourage anyone from electoralism as I have no control over others’ actions, but unless the British left as a whole is willing to put up an effective counter-measure against the blackshirts, then you might as well train up for the possible fascist takeover of the country or just retreat. I’m not sure what to say at this point, especially to the disabled who are too dependent on the current system to risk their lives for a greater cause.
End of rant.
Does anybody in Britain actually think Dialectics is a real or valuable thing? I understand Continentals and American Professors like it, but lets be real, this shit is just Christian mysticism. Its never actually done anything and is not useful for anything.
>>2855095Is dialects real or not? Is it useful or not?
Dialectally speaking, we should apply dialects to this - metadialectics if you will - and of course thereby synthesise new dialectical solutions to the very question of dialectics
>>2855111I'm not going to be arrogant and say dialectics has never made any contribution to human thought, and I know it goes again Lenin's notebooks or whatever, but if you want something that resembles the real world you cannot sit on your arse and "think up" new "systems". That flies in the face of materialism. You have to gether facts - new facts - and use those to come to a conclusion. This is exactly what Marx did in Das Kapital Chapter 1, despite insisting it was due to dialectics. No it wasn't, he went the Lond Library and read the blue books and looked at prices and shit.
britain should spend less than 1% of GDP on "defence". scrap trident for a start, merge all the different branches into a defence force, flog our aircraft carriers and other blue water ships to some jumped up little country like south korea, and tell BAE systems to find yank investors or start making non-stick frying pans if they want to stay in business. this is the one area of public spending where cutting it and giving it all away in tax cuts would still be an obvious net social good.
japan does 1.4% of GDP on war, new zealand does 1.2%, ireland does a wonderful 0.27%, even taiwan only does 2.1%. the 2% NATO target is already a farcical overspend and the current hike is even sillier. sadly because they are all sociopaths our would be economic liberals still go along with this pathetic farce of spending vast sums of public money so keir starmer can have his hard-man photo ops.
>>2854902The irony being is that the military is disproportionately non-white because many of them have a desire to "prove" their britishness. Also you have the old imperial mentality of the Sikhs/Gurkhas/Fijians "making fine warriors".
>>2855270>so keir starmer can have his hard-man photo opsHow else will he fluff up his CV for the NATO secretary general post
https://xcancel.com/LetsStopC9/status/2071843677891395951Will we be getting a point at which the gammons and other fascists will let their masks slip and actually admit that they think only white men should be allowed to rape white women?
As deranged as it sounds, it would be more honest compared to their current pearl clutching over “women’s safety”.
https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2026/06/29/reform-manchester/Reform’s candidate for Manchester mayor is a landlord. Because of course!
https://xcancel.com/lil_doza/status/2071922489110720618Terrorist who committed arson on a Dublin mosque turns out to be an Iranian goyslave. Not surprising when most Iranian diasporoids in the west are crazy-ass Pahlavists
https://xcancel.com/I_amMukhtar/status/2072272930709364924Flagshagger Ben Cullen to be tried for making PIM. The old saying “the one that barks the most has the most to hide” rings true once again.
>>2855482*dons serious hat*
Hello everybody, here's my apocalyptic rape fantasy
>>2855482Holy lmao.
Is it me or has Radio 4 taken a serious dump in the last decade or so?
I remember a few years ago some batty old woman was on there, presenting herself as some war or ukraine expert, going off about how the plucky entrepreneurial Ukrainians were using this app called Telegram to communicate in the field, which was a huge advantage to them, whilst the dumb simian ruskies were stuck with radios, strings and tin cans.
>>2855547What a half-assed measure. If Labour is going to do proper crackdown on informal work, it should implement a national ID system instead. After all, if a national ID is required to work and those who don’t have it can’t work, then the incentive to use surplus labor will go.
I mean, these kind of ideas used to be discussed in socdem and liberal circles up until Covid hit.
But yh, seems like more desperate attempts by the Blairite New Labour to appease the lumpen who never liked Labour to begin with.
Basically, Labour has become so toxic almost everybody in Britain hates them, and I don’t think Burnham can turn that around considering how he aspires to be a carbon-copy of Keir Starmer. Idk man, maybe letting Labour be destroyed would be good as the vacuum could be filled by a more militant left. Which faction might be is the problem as it seems that the UK in general is a lost cause for us.
>>2855551Hasn’t all non-indie British media taken a serious dump? I mean, nepotism and dependence on hedge fund manager handouts has led to the degradation of the British intelligentsia in general. It doesn’t help that the world’s richest man and owner of a global social media platform has decided to astroturf sloptubers into stardom.
I mean, the British intellectual scene leaves to be desired if its biggest intellectuals are shitlib peeps like slopmongerering neocons like Douglas Murray, man-hating lib like JK Rowling, frauds like Richard Dawkins, and skeletons like Tony Blair.
>>2855581
They also used to do Shakespeare audio plays
What's your leftypol take on the footy then?
>>2855567The BBC used to put Brecht on the radio. We used to have socialist theatre groups who interfaced with the mainstream.
We used to be a real country. How far we have fallen.
>>2855585I have written before how capitalism, and especially the industrial revolution basically destroyed European culture, but in the late 19th century, different attempts to revive recreation were devised, with Association Football (1863-) being one of these. All of the major sportsball ceremonies we have today have their origin in the 19th century, which is interesting, since they seem so timeless.
>>2855586Worst part is that it didn’t have to be this way. We could have had the BBC collab with local regional studios to produce truly varied media that appealed to local tastes. But no, Tories whined about “monopoly” and so decided to push for cuts on that initiative, leading to media monopoly by private media like Murdoch’s empire of lies et al., and so the abysmal quality of media will continue to this day.
>>2851547I'm not sure if Burnham really is the messiah, but surely he is the best chance of stopping Reform from winning the next election.
The Greens are quite popular these days but I really don't think they would be able to win a general election. I don't think Mondeo Man will vote for the Greens, but he might vote for Labour.
If the anti-Reform vote is split in the next election then we're fucked. Farage will become the prime minister.
>>2855811What good does stopping reform do? Especially when it means propping up Labour indefinitely?
Let it die lest you end up like the French left, lending unrequited support to Macron time after time while he only becomes more right-wing and Le Pen grows more popular off the anti-establishment sentiment with every electoral cycle.
Popular frontism is the death of the left and will in the long term lead to actual fascism, not the current bogeyman 'right populism'. The sooner you break from it and organise an independent pole of attraction for anti-establishment communist politics the sooner we can break out of this cycle. As long as 'stopping Reform' is your primary political goal the bourgeoisie has you by the balls. Kill the anti-fascist in your head.
>>2855811Mondeo man votes Reform, he's a low-education middle-aged male with a history of voting Tory. There is basically a 0% chance of him voting Labour in our current environment where politics is polarised by age and education.
Get your head out of the stupid centrist cliches from the 2020s. There is exactly one route to power for Labour or the Greens in 2028-9 and it is to consolidate the young and the educated around their party while the right-wing vote splits evenly between Tory and Reform. The age of elections trending on leadership competence and "the centre ground" is long over. You maximize the turnout of the smart and the young and you depress/split the turnout of the stupid and the old, or you're cooked. There are no nice gay soft tories who think david cameron is hot but could be convinced to vote Labour if you promise not to raise taxes, they all went lib-dem as soon as Brexit happened.
>>2855964I disagree with most of your second paragraph (in particular understating the risk of "right-populism", which is the political wing of lead poisoning) but in practice in Britain you reach the right conclusion. There is a case for popular frontism with the US democrats, Australian or NZ labour, perhaps even the Canadian liberals (weird freak regime that they are) and even Macron, but UK labour has repeatedly shown itself in power to be a party of the right and as a party of the right it is a worthless addition to any anti-right coalition. Their open contempt for their actual supporters and desperate pandering to those who hate them is a cardinal sin, both stupid and evil, the evil all the worse for the self-defeating stupidity, the self-defeating stupidity all the worse for beign evil.
Burnham won't do much better than starmer, he cannot fix the rot in labour's soul.
>>2855811There's no way Burnham is going to win back the masses, he's fundamentally the same as Starmer, a Greens led national anti-Reform alliance could maybe have kept them out of office
>>2855992It's not that right populism isn't dangerous, but rather that its too late to stop it in any way that counts, their policies are already being implemented by Labour, or by the Tories if they were in charge, and trying to stop it will come at the cost of never doing anything that will break us out of this cycle. Even had Starmer held on, Labour gone into total collapse and the Greens had the balls to take the lead in a popular frontist formation rather than prop up Labour, this would be a death knell of the left. It would be better to take the L and accept the Reform government in our future that to spend another day tailing liberal authoritarianism in Britain or anywhere else for the sake of 'stopping the far right' because that road leads to oblivion. If the left is unable to say no to liberal guiltmongering, assert its independence and oppositional character we might as well as kill ourselves right now.
>>2856008How would greens leading an anti reform coalition be worse than now? That would clearly put the left in a stronger position than being crushed underfoot by Reform goons
Reform is going to suck because it’s just the Tory rebrand and everyone would figure that out in about two months of reform governance. It’s already unraveling for them in this exact way for councils they do control, they can’t stop raising taxes. It’s not gonna be V for Vendetta, the British state and people simply aren’t capable of that.
Curious, how do you deal with chuds and hitlerites in your daily life - family members, at work, etc?
>>2856108>they can’t stop raising taxesWhy do they always do this lmao
>>2856196Square up
>>2856260Not an excuse but how else does a local government raise revenue? Does Britain have pubs or other businesses owned by local councils?
>>2856262Stop wasting huge amounts of money on vanity projects that are just an excuse for corruption, the city I live in has completely replaced the city centre like 3 times in 15 years, at a cost of tens of millions each time
>>2856001Why does Labour always want its new leader to be like Starmer, and why would Burnham even do that? Is there some sort of rule in the Labour Party stating “Thou must imitate Starmer” or something?
You’d think that Labour becoming the most unpopular party ever after Starmer took office would actually straighten them up, but it seems they are too committed to just run Labour through the mud.
Either the people with the same personality type as Starmer are attracted to joining Labour, or the seniors at the helm of the party stuck their heads in the sand to avoid criticism, or it might be due to MI5 interference for nefarious purposes. After all, why would Starmer allow racist lumpen riots and hooliganism protests to happen whilst heavily cracking down on any supporter of Palestine?
I think part of the reason Labour doesn’t want to change course and neither does Burnham has to do with a lack of a strong leftist movement in Britain capable of pressuring the Labour Party into taking a more hardline stance against capitalism and reactionaries.
>>2856290Nobody who is still in Labour actually believes in anything other than keeping the 'trots' down. Someone who doesn't actually believe in anything can't be a charismatic and popular political leader, just a boring technocrat who tails whatever the broadsheets are saying.
It's like how after Stalin, everyone in the CPSU was completely relentless and insipid, because the conditions of Stalinism purged anyone with passion or ideas. The careerist suits just want an easy life and a nice car and the security services are all too happy to oblige them. The boring technocrat attracts the hate while the government strips away our rights and freedoms, and when they're all used up, they get thrown away and replaced with an identical empty suit and the process begins again.
>>2856304*completely talentless
>>2856304>just a boring technocratBut they're not actually that though. Boring technocrat is people like Mark Carney and that would be a net improvement.
>>2856307Not this shit again. You somehow think technocrat means good, it doesn't, it's an elitist who thinks he knows better than everyone else and hides behind "efficiency" "pragmatism" etc etc to enforce the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. 99% of people who think they're special experts that are smarter than everyone else are fucking idiots, and corrupt ones at that.
>>2856310mark carney is all of those things. they are not ideal, but it is better to live under a competently run dictatorship of the bourgeoisie than an incompetently run one in the british fashion (where everything is dysfunctional except the mechanisms of repression.)
that parties cannot pick boring technocrats (starmer merely LARPed as one) speaks to their dysfunction, that one in office would sink like a stone because of the dysfunction of the state is the next problem, that the state in part can't function because the whole of society is dysfunctional… it's all very late soviet.
>>2856311It seems like the competency crisis hit Britain the hardest out of all countries in northwest Europe. Is it because the Norman aristocracy that has ruled over the Anglos for centuries been declining into mediocrity?
It seems like everything in Britain sans the castles and theatres are just downgraded of everything in America. Hell, even what passes off as le British upper class is basically middle class compared to that of America.
Britain as an empire has been decline, no one wants to acknowledge that, so the imperial delusions in the British establishment and its inability to reckon with that right be what led to this situation tbh.
>>2856196cut out and/or batter the cunt.
>>2856319>Britain as an empire has been decline, no one wants to acknowledge that,Nah. I think everyone knows that the empire is 'in decline', or a little bit more than that, in the year of our lord 2026.
Tommy Robinson’s organiser begs Farage to unite with ‘treasonous wretch’ Rupert Lowe:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/07/tommy-robinsons-organiser-begs-farage-to-unite-with-treasonous-wretch-rupert-lowe/The Bolton wanderer: disgraced ex-UKIP leader returns as Restore’s national security expert:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/07/the-bolton-wanderer-disgraced-ex-ukip-leader-returns-as-restores-national-security-expert/Shirts off, masks off, gloves off : neo-nazis spark war on the far right:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/06/shirts-off-masks-off-gloves-off-neo-nazis-spark-war-on-the-far-right/Rupert Lowe’s ‘I detest neo-nazis’ goes down badly with Restore’s neo-nazis:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/06/rupert-lowes-i-detest-neo-nazis-goes-down-badly-with-restores-neo-nazis/Round two in Manchester: ‘Young Bob’ stays on his feet but loses on points:
https://searchlightmagazine.com/2026/06/round-two-in-manchester-young-bob-stays-on-his-feet-but-loses-on-points/Lloyds de-banks Canary in fundamental attack on independent media:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/07/01/qyni-j01.htmlBurnham’s “Manchesterism” and “Productive State” agenda: Austerity, privatisation and war by another name:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/07/01/wvnt-j01.htmlBMA narrowly pushes through sellout of resident doctors on behalf of Starmer government:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/30/ixbj-j30.htmlLabour’s “politics of home” and the brutal reality of Britain’s housing crisis:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/29/vxds-j29.htmlUK Labour “left” prostrate before Burnham as he assembles cabinet for austerity and war:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/06/25/qbwi-j25.htmlAlso, England won against DRC in FIFA 2026. And a good-hearted lad gets a wave of hate messages after filming himself telling off a lumpen at the stadium for making racist remarks against Ghana during the England v Ghana match, and reported it to the manager who dismissed it.
Granted, I don’t think there’s any point in trying to police what football fans say since it’s full of lumpens, but he did have good intentions nonetheless. It’s insane the level of hate online that he is getting:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNZdkQRE7UBeing a leftist in the British online sphere is like being a trabswoman or MAP on Mumsnet.
>>2856324Sure, British elites are probably more realistic compared to their counterparts on the continent who seem to be stuck in the 1960s. But that doesn’t negate the fact that they still see the UK as a great power as opposed to being a vassal of the USA even though that’s how it is, whether it’s the richest American on Earth bankrolling the British right and far-right, or Palantir having access to NHS records with its British branch being headed by a descendant of Oswald Mosley.
>>2856319Part of the problem is that we started seeing ourselves as an empire after the Falklands, rather than accepting that we're a damp island off the coast of Europe and like many has-been countries the only task now facing us is to be a nice place to live, not a protagonist of history. As a result we throw a lot of resources at LARPing (Trident, which isn't even useful to NATO despite all the posturing) and misdiagnose our problems (e.g. everyone thinks the problem is how to get britain back to the cutting edge of economic growth, science and technology, etc, when actually the problem is mostly how to secure the easy wins that other countries have already cut out for us.)
We could be a great little middle-power but we blow it all trying to pretend to be a middling little great power.
>>2856319>the Norman aristocracy that has ruled over the Anglos for centuriesI that actually true?
>>2856335>But that doesn’t negate the fact that they still see the UK as a great power as opposed to being a vassal of the USAThe French are very well aware of that lol, i don't if that's the case in other countries though. Not that Germany and Benelux are any better on that front, however.
It is kind of odd the massive soft power the UK had until 2016 or so. And how it basically disapeared overnight.
Doctor Who, Harry Potter, Sherlock, Dany Boyle, Britpop/post-britpop, BBC being a public broadcast television news channel and not a type of porn in any normies head, grime music, jungle, every millenial girls wanting to be english and dating a Harry Style lookalike etc. It all still exist but it's basically gone from peoples consciousness.
Despite the empire and all hard power being dead and gone the UK still felt like the off-center of the world, along Japan.
>>2856357Still has some soft power left, but mostly for being the epicentre of the TERF wave and for being in the crosshairs of the plan to take over Europe by Musk and the rest of the American big tech, who are going along with Trump’s and Palantir’s mass surveillance rollout which will have ramifications for the globe since almost the entire world relies on American social media and tech. So far, the zio-wignat lumpen leader prototype as exemplified by Tommy Robinson has been exported to America in the form of (((Jake Lang))), so you can count as a British cultural export.
Not good obviously, but that’s all I can think of in terms of British soft power, even if it’s mediated by transnational cosmopolitans who barely identify with the UK as it exists anymore than Iranian Pahlavist Zionists do with modern Iran.
Britain needs, but will not get, a neo-neoliberal devolutionist government.
A 5 minute sketch:
Abolish: National Insurance, Supreme Court, EA2010, EHRC (not ECHR), TCPA1947, Online Safety Act, DWP, council tax, TULRA1992, BBC current affairs coverage, zero-VAT on newspapers (literally a £1.4bn subsidy to evil)
Actually open to free competition (and allow local authority control of): Telecoms, Gas, Electricity, Water, Railways*
Totally devolve to local authorities: NHS, Education, most of transport, most of policing, housing, social care, post offices, and the ability to create taxes and generally do whatever they like absent taking the piss like setting up their own army. (I am obviously being sketchy, but think the level of devolution given to Scotland and Wales, but with more revenue raising powers and a higher presumption towards experimentation and with more scope for setting up regional collaborations.)
Retain centrally: defence, foreign policy, income tax, some corporation tax, capital gains, currency and central bank, immigration**, national grid
Cuts or cut-like: scrap trident, stop subsidising BAE, abolish the baroque welfare and pensions system and fold it into a recurring cash payment you get when you've got no money, possibly via negative income tax. Local authorities can create their own welfare and welfare-to-work systems where this is felt to be insufficient.
*GBR probably remains in state hands but setting up an open access operator like Lumo should be easier and we should get rid of the asinine system of paying other operators for "stealing" their passengers, particularly since uneconomic routes will now be subsidised mainly by local authorities.
**while immigration should be controlled centrally, it should be possible for local authorities to set preferential terms. e.g. you get extra points on your visa application if a council will sponsor you or whatever. (already done elsewhere.)
The advantage of this over your preferred socialist scheme is that it requires the state to do less, not more. Scrap existing failed institutions and start again closer to the people they're relevant to, allowing each area to choose what it wishes to have more of and less of, and letting people move between good areas and bad ones. (Much easier when welfare is a cash payment than when it's a big faff getting housing benefit.)
>>2856374That story is 3 years old, after that time why even bother posting it
>>2856377>abolish the baroque welfare and pensions system and fold it into a recurring cash payment you get when you've got no money, possibly via negative income tax. Local authorities can create their own welfare and welfare-to-work systems where this is felt to be insufficient.How is that going to be more efficient? Local councils are much worse at administering benefits than the government based on my experience
>>2856378>That story is 3 years old, after that time why even bother posting itBecause i was trying to listen to picrel and it makes me want to blow my brains out.
This fucker should not be allowed near society let alone a radio show about football. honestly. Wants fucking shooting.
>>2856382Co-Produced BTW by a guy literally called 'Rich Power'.
Couldn't make it up. Fuck i despise the BBC.
>>2856377>Abolish: National Insurance, Supreme Court, EA2010, EHRC (not ECHR), TCPA1947, Online Safety Act, DWP, council tax, TULRA1992, BBC current affairs coverage, zero-VAT on newspapers (literally a £1.4bn subsidy to evil)Now, some of these acts are ammendments of prior acts, so would you get rid of say, the race relations act (1976), which is codefied in the EA2010, or are you suggesting a repealment of EA2010 so as to establish the prior acts contained within? This is also why I think we need a Jacobin-style year-zero to set things straight.
>Actually open to free competition (and allow local authority control of): Telecoms, Gas, Electricity, Water, Railways*This is contradictory. "Competition" means privatisation, which grants international (e.g. capitalist) control over national resources and public utilities. All public utilities should be nationalised - what better service are you actually getting by having for-profit leccy and gas?
>Totally devolve to local authorities: NHS, Education, most of transport, most of policing, housing, social care, post offices, and the ability to create taxes and generally do whatever they like absent taking the piss like setting up their own armyIf the NHS is "local" then its not an NHS, is it? If we are also scrapping national insurance, where's the money coming from? And if council tax is being scrapped, how do these supposed local authorities sustain themelves.
>Local authorities can create their own welfare and welfare-to-work systems where this is felt to be insufficient.It's not the local council's job to provide this.
>>2856382He also did a documentary about antisemitism lol
>>2856393>He also did a documentary about antisemitism lolYes, he wrote a whole book about it during the peak of the anti-corbyn hate-campaigns.
The guy most known for doing blackface with a pineapple on his head on the bbc.
Hate this countries media ecosystem.
>>2856414They can’t even do woke right, since they just ape American trends, as does every faction in British politics. So Starmer is Joe Biden, Burnham is Kamala Harris, Corbyn is Bernie Sanders, Farage is Donald Trump, Zack Polanski is AOC, etc…
>>2856382>>2856374Guy fucking hate gypsies. Has called them slurs on live TV and has downplayed the romani holocaust.
>>2856425That's just mainstream, Jimmy Carr made a "joke" that nobody would care if the Holocaust happened to Romani
>>2856380It's more efficient because you get rid of the big central inefficiencies of the DWP and plough that (combined with the money saved from a more efficient approach to pensions) into a higher overall benefit level, meaning local benefits are less necessary. (e.g. some very rushed calculations: divide the total DWP spending less child benefit (which we'll keep at current rates for argument's sake) by the number of working age people not in work, plus retirees on low incomes, the government could give the unemployed + poor pensioners £21.2k a year. that's a huge raise for low income pensioners and a huge raise for most unemployed adults. obviously you've got to lower that a little to account for administration costs, but it doesn't take the current 90,000 staff the DWP has to administer a simple "do you have a job y/n, do you have a pension y/n" test.
Even if each local scheme is less efficient, it's only dealing with little top-ups, like the Scottish Child Payment, rather than the entire system being big and inefficient and having all sorts of stupid rules and cutouts designed to save money but actually being a pain in the arse (like not giving anyone under 30 the full single person rate of housing benefit, arbitrary standards for disability payments, handouts to wealthy pensioners alongside one of the worst state pensions in the OECD)
>>2856390I would as a baseline assume just revert to the situation prior to the EA2010, which is fundamentally flawed, but there is also appeal to a year zero approach. The problem with year zero is simply that I doubt it could be implemented competently at the central level.
Competition does not necessarily mean privatisation. A prominent example would be Edinburgh and Nottingham bus services, which are mostly publicly owned despite the purpose of Thatcher's privatisation policy being to kill off public bus companies as part of a general scheme of destroying local autonomy. It requires the local authority be somewhat competent (or willing to subsidise a loss-maker for the public good, which would be much easier if they had any real fiscal autonomy) but that's not a bad thing. At the moment we have the worst of both worlds: fake, state protected markets and profits for firms under no pressure whatsoever to be competent.
I start from a position of sympathy to nationalisation but I think that in practice, given the current state of Britain's administrative establishment, you'd just transfer the same useless clowns from private to public sector while doing nothing to get rid of our national aversion to investment. To get accountability it's better to push things to the local level.
The NHS is already localised: NHS Scotland has been a completely separate organisation since foundation, NHS Wales since 1969, Health and Social Care NI is its own thing, and all of those plus NHS England have regional/local health boards. All I propose is to integrate those local control mechanisms with local government. As it stands, if you can't get an appointment the entire country can point to London or Edinburgh or Cardiff or Belfast, who don't give a fuck. It shouldn't be like that: if you can't get an appointment in your city, your local councillor should be wondering how he's going to live on a mere £21k/year dole.
Scrapping NI is revenue neutral if you just merge it into income tax, since NI is in practice just a dumb form of income tax that excludes landlords and pensioners and people who make too much money. Local authorities should sustain themselves with a mixture of grants from central government (most income tax, VAT, corporation tax, etc revenue will go to them because they're now handling a huge amount of day-to-day expenditure) and local taxes (which they can create and manage as they please. even income tax could be handled as with Scotland, where HMRC collects the money according to the rates set in Holyrood. In theory, local authorities could accept having less money and lower income tax rates.)
I hope you see from the thrust of my other arguments why it should be the local council's job to provide everything. Your MP is one anonymous weirdo of 650 hiding behind the other 650, the supreme court, "the market", and all sorts of other excuses to explain why he can't get you a job or a house or a doctor's appointment, he should be one councillor of 30 knowing your name and your face and all the things he's got to do to keep you happy.
Now, obviously, some local authorities are going to fuck it up. That's okay: we live in a country where the central authority is currently fucking up horribly. It's better to run 381 experiments on the best way to do things (and 381 variations of what's best for the people of each area. What London needs and what Orkney needs are two very different things!) to find the right answers and learn from one another than to repeatedly smash the entire country up against a wall doing the wrong thing, failing to do anything that anybody wants anywhere.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/national-news/news/teenager-who-threatened-kill-classmates-jailed>White teen>From SA>Wanted to blow up his school to be like the Columbine HS shootersBro, is Britain getting so Americanised that we’re getting “school bombings”? Or is this another psyop made by MI5 glowies entrapping mentally ill people in order to further create a climate of fear that justifies the coming surveillance state?
I should also note that I’ve got a theory that gammons and reactionary lumpen and their demagogues are being set loose with passive government resistance to:
- Effectively deny freedom of assembly to the workers by having them disrupted by fascist thugs
- Acclimate normies to jingoism in preparation for WW3
- Prepare a cadre of blackshirts that will suppress any opposition to the coming “V for Vendetta”-style fascist government.
>>2856482>It's more efficient because you get rid of the big central inefficiencies of the DWP
bro, have you ever heard of 'economies of scale'? like yeah im not denying the DWP is retarded but at least I can pick up a phone, wait 20 minutes, and talk to someone, with one of the councils i unfortunately have to work with, if you ring them, it puts you on hold for 5 minutes and then just hangs up on you, I've written them emails 4.5 weeks ago about clients they're trying to take to court and gotten no response. I prefer dealing with DWP infinitely.
also your back of the envelope calculation doesn't account for children. you can't raise a kid on child benefit. it also doesn't account for people that work but still get benefits.
there's obviously many problems with the benefits system but your half baked solution would just make it even worse.
plus on just a general point of fairness, is it really fair for someone with disabilities who can never work, and someone who just doesn't want to work and can't be bothered to get the same money?
>>2856487gotta be honest this sort of seems like a fair cop, not exactly an entrapment case
"Strang was arrested after it was reported he had videos of himself torturing cats and he had told people at his college that he was carrying knives and that he had a plan to blow up the college.
He had shown a classmate photos of homemade weapons and discussed an attack on their college, alongside sharing homemade videos of him lighting substances in his garden and kitchen.
The next day they reported Strang to the college, who made the decision to end early to safeguard pupils and contact the police. He was arrested later that day."
>>2856488I think you're confused: in my illustration the big cash payment comes from central government, it benefits from even bigger economies of scale than the current system which subdivides it based on a bunch of arbitrary criteria that tries to sort you by how deserving you are and how real your needs look on a form.
In my vision, your council doesn't give you £21k, your council offers top ups if 21k per person + child benefit still isn't enough. (The 21k figure is purely illustrative: if you want to be miserly or designate deserving or undeserving poor or cut out a few thousand a year for kids, that's all fine so long as we don't get into the weeds of means testing) This is already how Scotland only benefits work. Some areas might not offer these, but you can always move.
Given that the average disabled person gets less than £21k and the current system is full of perverse incentives, the question of fairness doesn't really enter into it.
Your practical problems with local councils today mostly arise because they're all broke and dysfunctional and nobody gives a fuck about council elections. All that would change at a stroke if they suddenly had real power, real money to dole out.
>>2856571based, shame it didnt work
>>2856425>Guy fucking hate gypsies. Has called them slurs on live TV and has downplayed the romani holocaust.Link?
>>2856571Now this is a protest I can get behind
Hey, I’ve been thinking: How do we foster unity across society that cuts through religious and racial and gender lines?
Because, as idealist as it is, a narrative of shared national struggle would be good for us, and I don’t necessarily think it’s fascist as both China and the USSR have it in their revolutionary wars + WW2.
In the UK’s case, I can only think of WW2 but that only helps validating British imperialism. So hard to say, considering how the UK’s main issue is that it fumbled its way from massive empire to irrelevant islet that directly owns only a select few rocky islands of little importance besides ecology and military strength (like Gibraltar and the bases in Cyprus).
>>2857104We need to unify in a war economy against climate change and poverty. And against war as well to be honest. A national industrialisation drive for full employment. Obviously difficult to achieve but that's what is needed
>>2857104I've suggested this before.
BAME people need to be self-described as English, not simply British.
Fully 45% of corporation tax owed by small businesses goes unpaid and uncollected. This wasn't the case a decade ago.
https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/07/01/andy-burnham-tax-gap-15bn/>>2857104Decentralise so people only have to care about their local area. Admit that Britishness is a mistake and nobody's going to fix Englishness so for the next best thing, break even that up. Channel it all into inter-county rivalries.
>>2857133Yes, it's called the "tax gap" (commonly seen as a result of HMRC understaffing). Government statistics show that around 60 billion from 2024-25 was uncollected, especially from small businesses, as you note:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tax-gap-2024-25-estimated-at-64 https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/07/02/ykdu-j02.htmlFail or Win? I think it will get nowhere as usual for leftist orgs in the UK, but I hope it actually succeeds, especially since it’s affiliated with the WSWS which isn’t transphobic despite being a leftist party, so hey maybe it’ll work. Well, hopefully, although its Trotskyist leaning makes me sceptical.
Although I don’t think electoralism will work, considering how no Marxist party ever won a landslide at the popular ballot in any bourgeois democracy. I can only think of a few states in India, but those are more socdem parties in all but name, so there’s that.
>>2857138Self proclaimed MLs get elected in Cyprus for some reason, though they haven't won since 2008. A point that gets all the stranger when you remember there's a British military base on the island.
>>2857118Why. "England" is a concept that appeals to nobody but racists and football hooligans (but I repeat myself)
>>2857138What's the point even posting this? "Socialist party has a membership drive instead of doing anything useful", what a shocking headline.
>>2857180Britain has a similar problem, having totally failed to define itself in any coherent way since the 1970s. If/When Scotland and Wales leave there's a good chance England+NI still LARP as "Britain", """FR Yugoslavia""" (e.g. Serbia and Montenegro) style.
but given the dismal state of Scottish nationalism, it might be England who break up the union, Russia leaving the USSR style… >>2857186Obviously British identity is not exactly amazingly strong but it's 100x more mainstream than 'English identity'.
>>2857180Why? Because there are English black and brown people.
Both the far left and far right unify in denying this fact.
>>2857216Who on the left is denying this… But I can tell you from my own experience, my Muslim friend says he doesn't feel comfortable supporting the England team (even though he likes football and was born in England) because he associates Englishness with the nativist far right.
Getting really tired of pundits carping about the "benefit" bill when more than half of it goes to pensioners. They always want to punish the poor and the disabled, never rich old people.
At best you get whining about the triple lock, but poor old people should get more money too. You can do all of it and cut the deficit just by hitting the least productive, least sympathetic, most Hitlerite group in the country in the pocket.
which is how £21k doleanon gets his sums to add up
>>2857330quite obvious how they tell on themselves. this is why Restore will win
>>2857473Ikr? The whole triple-pension thing solely exists to give older people and pensioners the ability to compete in the housing market. It’s basically the affirmative action of the housing sector, but for octogenarians.
But tbf, given how shabby the care industry is, Britain would see more elderly homeless or old people being stuck in their old homes if the triple pension lock didn’t exist.
>>2857554the big scam (and biggest easy win in all of british politics) is national insurance. there isn't actually a separate pot of money that NI pays into, it's just income tax with the serial number filed off, except that you don't pay it if you're a pensioner or landlord and the amount you pay is capped above a certain income. e.g. it's a giant subsidy to the old, the rich, and the old, rich and workshy.
scrapping NI and folding it into income tax is the most obvious policy imaginable except that no government is brave enough to admit how high income tax on labour (e.g. income tax + NI) actually is, even though you could actually cut taxes on labour with the extra revenue from fairly taxing landlords, wealthy pensioners, and rich people. (you could even make the tax system fairer for rich people, because we've done some really fucking stupid stuff around the £100k band that means you
can become worse off by being paid more, because they randomly withdraw benefits and fuck with your personal allowance in a desperate attempt to paper over the cracks.)
>>2857474By “they”, are you referring to British leftists and liberals, or the Muslim friend of the guy you’re replying to?
Either way, I don’t necessarily think it proves your point, considering how for decades “English” identity was co-opted by the far-right for years, in contrast to “British identity” which was seen as “multicultural-friendly”, at least up until recently. In fact in the 2010s it wasn’t particularly uncommon for the British alt-right to argue that English flags should be used in place of the Union Jack because the latter was too globohomo for them.
But yh, I’m not really sure if this trend can be reversed in the short term at all.
Anyway, if the UK were to ever be communist, I think these alternative flags might be good inspiration:
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb!alt2.htmlEither that, or any number of alternative British communist flags one can easily search online.
Thousands Join Pro-Restore Britain Facebook Groups Run From Pakistan And Bangladesh:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/thousands-join-pro-restore-britain-facebook-groups-run-pakistan-bangladeshShould even be surprised?
It's an easy way of making money for the less scrupulous.
Look at the "Raise the Colours" lot, they've been taking thousands in donations, yet the group is led by a guy awaiting trial for murder-
https://metro.co.uk/2026/05/28/raise-colours-founder-billy-allison-charged-murder-bar-owner-28555599/A convicted murderer-
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2025/08/22/operation-raise-the-colours-organised-by-well-known-far-right-extremists/A guy awaiting trial for making indecent images of children-
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raise-colours-leader-ben-cullen-court-over-ai-child-abuse-images-claim-1806694& a guy wanted in Spain for fraud-
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/flag-campaign-chief-praised-tommy-36289840These criminals are making bank from the more gullible among us. How many posts were there on here last year supporting this lot?
Ofc grifters from around the world are going to catch on for this source of easy money.
And who can forget this gem?:
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2025-11-16/king-of-slop-how-anti-migrant-ai-content-made-one-sri-lankan-influencer-richIt's not just Facebook. When X started labelling accounts with their locations, there were tens of thousands thousands of "patriots" who were found to be posting from India and Pakistan. It's not even about the politics really, that's just what is going happen when you allow users to monetise engagement. People will find a way maximise it, and it turns out that a really, really good way of doing that is by baiting flag shaggers.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/07/03/wcof-j03.htmlBurnham told to make welfare and pension cuts to pay for UK rearmament and prepare war with Russia
>UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer published his long-delayed Defence Investment Plan (DIP) on June 30, committing an additional £15 billion to the armed forces over four years.
<It leaves Starmer’s successor-in-waiting, Andy Burnham, having to find tens of billions of pounds in cuts to social spending to pay for a hike in military funding.
>The DIP was meant to fund the Labour government’s 10-year Strategic Defence Review (SDR), published in June last year, but its funding commitments extend only to the four-year spending review period ending in 2029/30.
<The plan takes total military spending to £298 billion in the period to 2029/30—almost £80 billion a year by the end of the decade. Speaking at a drone factory in Berkshire flanked by Chancellor Rachel Reeves, Starmer hailed “the biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the 1980s”, raising spending from 2.3 percent of GDP in 2024 to 2.7 percent. However, he added, this would only put “us on a trajectory to reach 3 percent in the next Parliament [after a scheduled 2029 general election]”.
>Every line of the 80-page DIP is directed at preparing for war with Russia, declaring that “President Putin’s aggression is growing around our shores, in the High North, across Europe, and in Ukraine.” Ramping up military spending is required as “NATO is now warning that Russia could be ready to use military force against the Alliance by the end of this decade.”
<More than £63 billion over four years goes to the nuclear weapons programme—Dreadnought submarines, a new warhead and 12 nuclear-capable F-35A jets—alongside £11 billion for munitions and six new weapons factories, more than £5 billion for drones and autonomous systems, and £8.6 billion for the Tempest fighter programme.
>To secure massive future profits for UK arms manufacturers such as BAE Systems, Babcock and MBDA, the government announced a taxpayer-backed £50 billion export finance facility—the largest allocation in UK Export Finance’s history—to underwrite foreign purchases of British weapons.
<The £15 billion includes £1.5 billion prised from the Treasury in the three weeks since Defence Secretary John Healey and Armed Forces Minister Al Carns resigned over the earlier £13.5 billion settlement proposal. However, only £11.6 billion of the £15 billion is new money.
>For the military cabal and their backers in the media, who determine the policies of governments, the DIP confirms their verdict that the Starmer government had to go for refusing to stump up far more than £15 billion and pay for this by slashing welfare.
<Military chiefs had demanded at least £28 billion to fund a “black hole” in the Ministry of Defence’s budget—without which all 62 recommendations of last year’s Strategic Defence Review could not be met. >>2857799>Starmer’s critics wasted no time in denouncing the final settlement as inadequate. Healey told Parliament, “Britain will still be spending just 2.7 percent of GDP in 2030, the date when NATO has warned we could face a Russian attack”, demanding a “clear, credible funding plan” to reach 3 percent and NATO’s 3.5 percent target by 2035.
<The head of the UK’s armed forces, Chief of the Defence Staff Sir Richard Knighton, told the Times that the SDR was only deliverable if the 3.5 percent target is met.
>It was leaked to journalist Andrew Marr that “[Defence Secretary] Dan Jarvis had [a] sentence saying that the chief of staff [Knighton] backed the plan but, because it’s not properly funded, they told him he had to take the sentence out”.
<Reeves confirmed that only £10.3 billion of the £15 billion has been identified, “primarily by reallocating budget from across government departments”, with “a further £4.7 billion over four years” to be “confirmed at Budget 2026”—£1.8 billion of it in the current financial year.
>Every department was instructed by Reeves to hand over 1 percent of its capital budget. Health and Social Care must cut £570 million against current plans, and education £314 million. Up to 18 hospital building projects could be delayed or scrapped, with the National Health Service maintenance backlog at nearly £16 billion and a £13.8 billion shortfall for schools repair. The Department of Transport will cut around £1.5 billion, including foregoing £700 million in road schemes. Ed Miliband’s Energy Security and Net Zero department will lose £2.3 billion.
<Fuelling the ire of the military, the MoD itself must deliver £10.7 billion in “efficiencies” by 2030, including a 10 percent cut in civil service workforce costs.
>Such sums only scratch the surface of what is required.
<Following Starmer’s resignation, Burnham is expected to be formally declared Labour leader on July 17 and to enter Downing Street on July 20. >>2857801>The Times reported that Burnham had to find “almost £7 billion of cuts to schools, hospitals, road and energy projects to pay for increased defence spending in one of his first acts as prime minister.” This was “on top of the £4.7 billion of savings or tax rises that Burnham’s chancellor will have to find at the next budget to pay for the unfunded element of the defence investment plan.”
<According to the Financial Times, Burnham was “blindsided” by the initial DIP funding gap of £4.7 billion, including the £1.8 billion in savings that must be allocated in the coming financial year.
>The Times’ editorial Wednesday put Burnham on his marching orders. Headlined, “Defence plan is Andy Burnham’s call to arms on public finances”, it described the £4.7 billion shortfall as a “poison pill” administered by the outgoing premier while denouncing the £15 billion uplift as “half of what they need”.
<The need to vastly increase the arms budget and the funding deficit “should spur him to take radical action on pensions and welfare.”
>Referring to Burnham’s comment last year that the UK economy should not be “in hock” to the bond markets, the editorial warned “what the bond markets will care about (sorry Mr Burnham but Britain is indeed in hock to them) is welfare.”
<The paper denounced the £320 billion spent on social security in 2025-26, including £145 billion on working-age and child welfare and £146 billion on the state pension, protected by a “triple lock”—on course to double its cost by 2070. The lock “must be picked”, it demanded, with Burnham as “the locksmith”.
>“Pensions, welfare and the higher debt interest that stems from them… destroyed the room for manoeuvre of the Starmer government and its predecessors”. For Burnham, therefore, “That means going after the really big money, soon,” meaning the welfare budget.
<The Financial Times editorialised that the DIP funding gap risked Britain becoming “a mid-tier country behind Poland, Germany, and the Baltic and Nordic nations”. Burnham’s job was to raid “the soaring welfare budget.” Succeeding where Starmer failed “will be a defining test of the Burnham premiership”.
>In his speech Monday outlining his agenda, Burnham spoke of a 10-year plan to raise living standards. But such boilerplate was blown apart within a matter of 48 hours, as the military had their say.
<Last year, under pressure from US President Trump, NATO members pledged to devote 5 percent of GDP to the military by 2035. On publication of the DIP, the Resolution Foundation calculated the cost of this at an additional £25 billion every year.
>In a Telegraph article accompanying the DIP’s release, Chancellor Reeves warned Burnham against borrowing to pay for further military spending as “A Britain spending beyond its means is a weak Britain”.
<Burnham has got the message. Asked about the DIP by Marr on LBC Radio, Burnham said of hiking military spending: “I regard it as something that the country has to face up to very seriously. We’re in a changing world. The nature of the threat is changing… I will take my responsibilities fully to fund the defence investment plan…” >>2858174Maybe he can actually talk about how he's gonna fix this shitty country instead
>>2858179I think The Queen Is Dead is better album
>>2858179That’s so not happening these people haven’t even reckoned with the situation we are in, let alone fixing it.
>>2858319Nigel led to Rupert Lowe, Rupert Lowe will inedibly lead to someone better
>>2858320Tommy "Israel First" Robinson?
All these fellas are grifters. Being racist is marketing.
>>2858334I thought it would be Carl “Sargon of Akkad” Benjamin, but then I realise that he is just one step above Douglas “you can’t be an expert on China if you haven’t been there” Murray which, combined with Carl’s previous fuckups in UKIP and that video game he never got done, doesn’t exactly paint a good picture. Now, if it wasn’t for Elonbuxx and support from a great section of the British financial elite, I doubt the British right would be anything other than the indirect weaponry used to suppress freedom of assembly.
Then again, this is an underestimate considering how Carl is admittedly a trailblazer since he used to be a classical liberal anti-SJW sloptuber before turning into a politician.
Unfortunately, I don’t think a Democrat victory in America will change anything, if Biden’s rule is anything to go by.
>>2858389stephen molyneux called himself a 'public' philosopher not just a mere philsopher.
>>2858389>BA in philosophy Read The Republic award
>>2859137Maybe he'll write a song about it
I don't know who Andy Burnham is.
>>2859138his music is shit nowadays
just listen to the dark side of the moon redux
>>2859137if you listen to the full interview, its interesting
waters seems utterly loyal to global institutions like the united nations and its human rights charter, but just thinks we need some sort of public "truth" to break free from the lies of governments. he is a pure political idealist.
>>2859143>nowadaysName one (1) good solo Roger Waters song after Final Cut
>>2859147I didn't even like Final Cut.
>>2859146boomer brain. just like speilbergs film about aliums. if the truth is broadcast across the wide media people will wake up!
>>2859099Keir Starmer aura power is going to bring the football 'ome
>>2859839Nah mate the Squad is singing Wonderwall: full Manchesterification is in action.
>>2859912U wot M8?
Also Corbyn is a wrecker, who gives a fuck what he thinks
https://xcancel.com/RealIrishNews/status/2073191344927805580The above tweet has only 34 likes and 15896 views.
Had it been a certain different demographic committing this crime, you would have every judeogolem right-winger screeching about it endlessly.
Yet, nothing.
>>2859954The Eastern Europeans are on the backburner at the mo
Once the "millions" have gone, Polish plumbers will be scapegoated again
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/former-uk-minister-demands-reparations-britains-ex-coloniesThat fiendish ziorat of Suella is, once more, bullshitting on the next culture war topic.
I don’t think there’s any point in paying reparations for slavery considering how it would amount to another aid for feel-goods and it still wouldn’t solve the issue of structural global inequality as that would require a revolution to solve it. That, and it just creates resentment unnecessarily.
With that said, Suella is clearly lying about Britain “spreading democracy and developing countries” because it’s just not true. The British empire only built infrastructure based on convenience and nothing more, with the actually progressive parts being accidental and having little to do with the empire being lil gud bois.
Literacy in Africa? Mostly native-driven as it was mainly African Prot converts who did the heavy lifting, as opposed to British colonial administration which tried to implement its own laws into colonies to standardise bureaucracy. In fact, the British empire was far less ideological than the French one due to the French economy financialising way earlier than the UK.
Although I do detest Suella BraverRAT, I’m more tired with the pretense of enlightenment in a country where its intelligentsia still spouts Whig history slop as if it was truth.
Take British abolitionism. You’d think that Eric Williams’ “Capitalism and Slavery” would have put the matter to rest, and yet to this day you still have the British “intellectual” class spouting Whig slop about the British empire abolishing slavery out of the kindness of their heart. It’s just too much, especially since no sitting MP is willing to challenge this litany of lies.
Which brings me to my ultimate point: The inability of the average Brit to understand that Britain is no longer an empire, let alone a great power, combined with the cognitive dissonance of having to see poverty all around, will lead to the white British turning into Middle East-style sectarians as dumb as the Indian ones, and it doesn’t help how even the British middle class is joining the ranks of lumpen.
>>2860665Why has she bothered to wade into this rhetoric?
Nobody in this country has embraced the truth that this is a poor country and that changing that will require painful fiscal decisions.
A lot of people say this, of course, but they are LARPers. They mean punishing the unemployed and the disabled and nonsense like that to save a few billion here and there (on paper) and to satisfy their own perverted psychological need to be pricks (in reality).
More than half of welfare expenditure goes on the old and NHS spending is also primarily geared towards the old, but demands for austerity always fall on the young, even-and-especially from young sociopaths who want a tax cut. (More austerity for other young people, please!)
>Anon, fiscal constraints aren't real
They aren't real for first-tier rich countries, and Britain is no longer a first-tier rich country.
>Anon, we don't need austerity, we need to borrow to invest!
It's true that austerity would be suicide, but spending needs to be transferred from consumption to investment, e.g. some areas have to be cut to fund it. Unfortunately the only area we'll actually do this for is "defence" which isn't an investment, it's pissing money down the drain.
>Why don't we just raise taxes? People won't actually leave!
Another idea that only works in a first-tier rich country. A mark of Britain's incompetence is that it is actually possible to earn more and get poorer because of a bunch of gimmicks used to avoid being honest about the top rate of income tax (cutting the personal allowance, child benefit, etc, for the rich.)
Anyway, nobody's going to fix this, nobody's anywhere near prepared to fix this (a Labour-right government would be the ideal vehicle and they've totally fumbled it.) and everyone should move to Ireland. That's my conclusion.
>>2860665>reparations, but reverseI hate third-worlists AND first-worldists
>Farage says he will 'make statement on my future in public life at 2pm'
Taking bets on whether he stays or goes.
I'm saying stays because nothing good ever happens.
>>2859964>He was at least twice as angry as her lol. AndWrong. You failed to consider female.
Farage is staying as head as Reform, but he's quitting as an MP to hold a by-election, which he will be standing in.
He's saying if he's voted in again he'll accept that as the equivalent to being cleared of any and all past wrong doing.
Of course, winning an election doesn't actually prove he's done nothing wrong at all. It doesn't mean legal matters will go away.
It's spectacle, but his supporters will eat it up and treat it as absolution.
Note that a typical election costs the constituency £100,000 - and the Makerfield by-election cost £226,000.
Not sure he'll be telling his Clacton constituents how much his latest stunt has cost them.
insha'Allah the Conservatives take Clacton
>>2861214What happens if he loses though? Does that kill reform?
White Vanguard got seen off by the fucking RCP in Cardiff apparently. Nothing more aura destroying than that.
>>2861527Kek. Link?
Did the assorted anarchos and antifascists make an appearance? Wales can usually hold its own in this regard.
>>2861532Here is their own report:
https://communist.red/cardiff-communists-send-fascist-provocateurs-packing/Attached is their own video, then one from "Eagle News 88". Kinda funny that the fash agitprop confirms everything the RCP said: White Vanguard rocked up, stood there for a few minutes, then binned the flag they brought with them and left. National Front would have run rings around these fannies.
>>2857104Actual develop standard secular civic identity and secular civic norms that literally everyone adheres too.
Drop bullshit special "protections" for nonsense like religion and ethnicity, Everyone has to follow the same rules and norms. It should be perfectly fine to tell religionoids and ethno-centrists to go fuck themselves if their bullshit gobdlygook nonsense butts up in opposition to civic norms.
Incentivize massive social shaming and some level of criminal punishment for antisocial behaviour, even light antisocial behaviour like littering.
UK state mythological pride should be around how the UK working class literally built the modern world.
>>2861072Big issue is that even the left cries foul and suddenly demands a reversal to any economic sanity after they hear one sob story of some granny not being able to run her central heating at 35C 24/7.
UK needs something like a 5 year plan and have the country fully mobilized to reorganize everything and make the North and Midlands viable major economic hubs. With the rise of India and Brexit damaging UK finance, the UK won't be able to rely entirely on a service economy and City of London for much longer.
>>2861072How or why would the labour right fix it? They're the ones that made Thatcherism into permanent government doctrine. You seem to have some delusion that neoliberalism was ever anything more than an excuse to rob the commons blind.
>>2861336Mostly, but he wouldn't have done this unless there was 0% chance of him losing
>>2861977Don't think RCP are larping as Welsh tbh
>>2861979Yeah. They are entirely students but yeah.
>>2861225>Farage is staying as head as Reform, but he's quitting as an MP to hold a by-election, which he will be standing in.Real shot here for Count Binface
>>2861990Genuinely though does count binface actually have a chance at winning?
>>2861969Such a program would require a level of confidence far beyond the current UK. You're pining for LKY in a country incapable of producing one.
ironic given it produced him.>>2861971The left can't be blamed for this, the government's approach was stupid. When you rob Peter you've got to give Paul a cut, or Paul is obviously going to do the civic minded thing and come to Peter's aid. Better to do much more aggressive cuts and then spend some of the money bribing the people they don't impact than to do small cuts that nobody wants.
A 5 year plan is a fantasy: I do not believe anyone in the entire country is capable of creating one, let alone assembling a team to implement it, let alone that team succeeding when it collides with every other institution.
>>2861972How: Do the old "the books are worse than we thought" gimmick (but properly this time) and announce major unpopular spending cuts that hurt wealthy retirees (who don't vote labour) to give money to working age people (who do) and to put towards infrastructure investment, partially obscured by superficial departmental reforms
all in the first budget. People will piss and whine and then they'll realise that the upshot of the plan is that
they're getting more money, so if the plan fails they're
not getting more money, and they won't organise against it and may even organise in favour of it. They'll be mad but in 2028 they'll ask: "do I feel better off? does the country look better off?" and the answer will be yes from enough of them to win re-election.
Why: because this would lock Labour in power for a generation while pissing off the Labour left (without actually making them leave) and giving all their parasitic associates lots of opportunities to steal money on the side. Even if Labour lost the subsequent election, the changes would be very difficult for a future government to reverse. Even if it destroyed the Labour party, that's already the timeline we're in.
While it is true I think that neoliberal ideas can be useful (neoliberals themselves are
all awful) this is incidental to my reasoning. I could be an MMTer or even full blown "create a central plan"-er for the US and still accept that Britain is in no position to follow the same strategy as a mid-sized mid-income little country with no establishment talent whatsoever. Even the PR elements of my suggestion are really hitting the upper bounds of establishment competence.
This is not my ideal scenario, just my assessment of where we realistically stand.
>>2862217>Rupert Lowe on JREWonder how much that cost him. No way in hell Rogan invited him on of his own volition to come talk about the evils of Quangos and the Bar Standards Board.
>>2862224Joe Rogan is a servant of Zionist tech billionaies, so its likely they gave him the call to put Rupert on, although I'm shocked that he was on before Farage.
>>2861569She is very cute…
why do we think the press has, only now, decided it's time to Notice that Farage is a bent prick
>>2862291they got their marching orders. maybe it's been decided that labour is doing such a good job at everything the security services want that there's no need to replace them
>>2862301He's not really resigned though this time has he, he's just forced a by-election he was basically guaranteed to win even if the other candidates didn't drop out
>>2862291The French press does the same thing with MLP every single time. Hyping her when the elections are far then rugpulling her by trashing her and her party 6 month before the elections.
There are goys out there who actually find count binface funny. Scary.
>>2862860He would be actually funny if he win though
>>2862863That's not going to happen. The constituency is over 95% white.
>>2862860He's not exactly hilarious but it's the closest thing we have to someone actually questioning the terribleness and comedy of the whole process
>>2862860Genocidal imperialism but with le funny mask
>>2862911He's an imperialist?
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-get-filthy-rich-with-gary-stevenson/on-demand/78427-001Thoughts?
I think it's good agitprop, because the hairbrained scheme doesn't work it will in people's minds sharpen the contradictions and tensions, leaving people more likely to be radicalized.
>>2862929Maybe this is a Mandela effect but I swear to god it was called Teletext??
> EXCL: Andy Burnham has apologised for Labour’s initial response to Israel’s military action in Gaza, saying that the party “didn’t get it right” and needs to “do better” under his leadership, as he signals a significant shift in the UK’s approach to the Middle East.
<The PM-in-waiting told me he would put more pressure on the Israeli government, including through further sanctions on individuals and entities, but also potentially by banning trade in goods with illegal settlements.
>As well as pushing for substantive change on the ground, Burnham’s intervention starts to address concerns among voters on Labour’s progressive flank, many of whom have abandoned the party over its position on Israel and Palestine.
<“I know many people feel that at the start of Israel’s military action in Gaza my party didn’t get it right and I am sorry about that. The response has too often not been good enough. We need to do better,” he said.
>“We’ve got to do more to put pressure on the Israeli government… Yes, we have taken some important steps… But let’s be honest, the UK was too slow to call for a ceasefire. And we must now do more to strengthen our approach.”
>>2863375teletext = generic name for all teletext systems, also used as the name of ITV's teletext service from 1993-2009.
ceefax = bbc teletext system
ORACLE = ITV teletext system before 1993
>>2863383Ah maybe we were using the ITV one then? Because 93-09 is the time of my childhood.
>>2863390We colloquially called it all teletext, at least where i was at that time.
>>2863523>Bottom line:>this isn't waffle waffle x [line break] it's ycan't decide what's worse, this post being partially written by AI or someone adopting the mannerisms of AI naturally.
>>2862860Third-worldist or nazi
>>2863535What's the difference?
>>2863568
The left won. A trash can winning election wont change this.
>>2863573
Least of my worries. All of them turn into secular faggots when given a chance.
>>2863550>>2863568>>2863571>>2863573Binface cope is immaculte
under neoliberalism this cretin would've already starved to death, just saying.
>>2863596
>>2863598
Binface owns you
>>2863598
they don't do that in malaysia.
>>2863614
Racist
>>2863612
anon, be honest, what has your life come to that you're posting this here at 16:46 on a friday afternoon.
>>2863614
>>2863612
It's always funny how you people always try to be the most abrasive insufferable assholes at the same time you're crying and asking for our sympathy. I really wouldn't mind if you got replaced.
>>2863622
> and now you're saying you want whites to be replaced?
No just you.
>>2863621- drip, w2c?
- seems like a helpful productive guy delivering a service people want and pay for, a much more ideal citizen than a little freak spewing boring cliches on an anonymous imageboard during the working day.
>>2863622
what is the use case for low autism score white people
>>2863624Low I.Q. people can be even more productive than high I.Q. people
>>2863626
>aren't capable of sympathy
<with your suicidal empathy
>>2863628Yh, gammons are the epitome of low-trust. Fact is, high-trust societies are NPC-coded, which would not tolerate the kind of confrontational violent anti-social behavior and conspiracism the gammons are prone to.
But yh, gammons don’t operate under any sort of logic and fact, as shown by their ilk here whose only retorts are either violent fantasies or appeals to emotions. No wonder they love AI slop made in South Asia so much, all astroturfed courtesy of their beloved oligarchs:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/thousands-join-pro-restore-britain-facebook-groups-run-pakistan-bangladeshhttps://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2025-11-16/king-of-slop-how-anti-migrant-ai-content-made-one-sri-lankan-influencer-rich >>2863621
>eleventy
Not a number
>>2863626
>Western high trust society
I will remind you that WW2 was started by Germans who denied the appeals of the British and so forced us into war. At least 50 million Europeans died as a result, and this wasn't even a century ago. It is whites who love to kill each other most (which tracts with our out-group preferences). But if you were going to put a date on it, when was the West most trusting and when was the trust broken? Of course, the post-war social democracy saw much prosperity, and was also dismantled by Thatcher and Major through the 80s and 90s, concluding in neoliberal Blairism, which is where most immigration concerns are centred. This was only 30 years ago, and most immigrants were from the EU. Non-EU mass immigration only began after Brexit was officiated by Johnson in 2020, which saw unprecedented numbers of non-EU immigrants enter the UK (mostly students, as is the case today). Mass immigration has increased under Tory rule, and Labour has lowered immigration to pre-2012 figures. Your complaints about political orientation perhaps misses the pragmatism at hand - if Farage and Johnson promise to "get Brexit done", then allow infinity migrants into the UK, then is it the "left" which is really at fault? Just something to consider. 🙂👍
>>2863641while your argument is internally coherent i think it's important to repeatedly underscore two things:
- most of what thatcher did wasn't neoliberalism
- blair was a dribbling moron who did more than anyone else to pander to the "legitimate concerns" of anti-immigration and anti-EU freaks while still bringing people in, the single worst policy combination imaginable.
- it's also worth noting that starmer has cratered immigration numbers.
>>2863644
leftists and liberals don't have outgroup preference, they just conceive of ingroup and outgroup differently to you. to be blunt: you are more foreign than any african. there are a handful of immigrants in this country but something like 45% of it has the same variety of brain-worms as you. ideally, britain would have a benevolent elite inteligensia that kept your lot under control but unfortunately all we've got is inbred losers and cringing class traitors who do their damndest to pander to your schizo whims.
now me, i say let the market sort it out. sell the whole country to toshiba.
>>2863644
Do you not see that there is truth in the anon's post, though? Your accusation is essentially that leftists are "too" trusting of people, and that this is what causes problems - like leaving your door unlocked. The conservative on the other hand, has a lack of trust and so is not open to strangers - such are concerns about national defense and the like. So, I think the issue is more nuanced than you take for granted. Further, you do make an interesting argument, that the left is essentially undermining itself by empowering illiberal forces in society through an internally contradictory liberalism. This is true of course, in the same way that anti-racism has transformed into racial particularism (such that "anti-racist" can codefy anti-white discrimination). The "coincience of opposites" is present, I don't disagree. In terms of plans, I would again point at Labour - it is Labour which has reduced net migration and is seeking partnership with the EU (e.g. the white people), while the Tories want us to partner with the US and Israel so that we become a servant of their regime. I think between two evils, one is better than the other. Now, in terms of positive solutions, I don't see anyone supporting illegal immigrants, they are simply protesting against racists. It is a negative movement, and for the "refugees welcome" crowd, notice that the refugee status is a necessary condition. I have never seen an "economic migrants welcome" sign, so here there is agreement, no?
>>2863655Not-so-subtle classism.
>>2863654
Would you compromise and say that the immigrant question is an extension of the lumpen question in general? Picking a deliveroo driver is silly, since that is a guy who has a job. As far as I know, the majority of rapists and murderers (in general) are jobless parasites living on benefits, just like our native smackheads and beggars. It is a common spirit of degeneracy, not a racial caste. A cause as far as material conditions would also be to suspend all benefits for immigrants, and im certain less would arrive. In the end, its about money, not a caliphate. I think this is part of reactionary mystification.
>>2863673
So I presume you are an LGBT ally and want to kick out the Muslim chuds for bullying the gays? You like white people because they are more liberal, yes?
>>2863686Wow. He surely couldn't have waited for her to drop dead, herself?
>>2863673
> building Mosques in the Lake District
The swans WILL convert and you WILL feed them halal bread
>>2863664i am prejudiced against every segment of the british class system. we are all the descendants of all the people too cowardly, too stupid, or too inbred to emigrate for the hope of a better life. people who looked (or could have looked! wilful blindness is worse!) at the offer of
literally being paid to move to countries that were better in every way and said no.
>>2863673it's almost impossible
not to trade up on birmingham, like half of the poorest areas in england are in that city and the government has been purposefully strangling it to death since 1945, long before mass immigration. i mean be bleak and realistic, you could throw a dart at basically any grim northern town and still stand a chance of it being a relative improvement both in terms of real problems and in terms of your weird obsession with muslims (birmingham has the highest % of muslims in the UK.)
>>2863698I suppose you are one of these "cowards" yourself.
If you have an issue, deal with it.
>deal with it
Like whinging on a dead Marxist imageboard about Muslims
Waaaaaaah they're converting the ducks to Islam in the lake district won't somebody thinks of us white people
>>2863703I'm not that anon, lol.
If you are a coward, gain some courage and honour.
>>2863705>gain some courage and honourWe aren't fucking Klingons
>>2863701i have a medium term plan to do so and i would recommend everyone else make one and then act on it.
i cannot emphasise enough to everyone ITT: as a british citizen you are entitled to live in the republic of ireland. you do not need a visa. if you live in the republic of ireland for long enough, you can naturalise as an irish citizen. as an irish citizen, you are still entitled to live anywhere in the EU. every single british citizen has the option to escape this sinking ship by taking this route.
there are other options obviously: marry someone, get a degree or apprenticeship in a skills shortage area and then get a visa somewhere nice and warm that speaks english, join the french foreign legion, but those are all circumstantial and it's very unhelpful when someone gives you advice you can't use. hence my emphasis on the irish point: all non-yanks in this thread can take that route.
>>2863709What do you think makes Ireland or the EU better than Britain?
>>2863717britain has a uniquely incompetent ruling class + uniquely broken economy + dismal futureless culture and (deserved) low international status once everyone realised that we're not actually clever refined wits, we're self-sabotaging racist drunks.
the first has always been a problem to some extent, the second is a post-thatcher problem, and the last is the most recent of all.
ireland's ruling class may be just as incompetent for all i know, but their economy is much better (just off the cuff:
irish average salary is 15% higher than in britain, median household disposable income is higher, and despite this ireland is also
more equal than britain), i won't pretend to analyse their culture but i can safely say that at the very least everyone likes the irish.
other EU countries are more about picking and mixing as you please. some areas of underpeformance, other areas of overperformance. in a five years or so it'll make economic sense to go to poland and do the jobs they don't want to do so you can send the money back to your family in the uk.
>>2863568
>>2863571
Straits still closed lil uygha + we're deporting your back to the Bvllah when we get back in power
It's far too hot.
I wish I had S poster to spit on me to cool me down right now.
>>2863848First Farage, now dear old Ann
This has all the signs of a deep state hit, make no mistake
>>2863800https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRE7NV75/>>2863793Would be great if one of us made a bonfire topped with the figures of Hitler, Musk, Mosley, Farage, Lowe and Tommy all draped in an Israeli flag with the post reading:
“Death to the IDF! Stop the American tyranny over Britain!” or something like that.
>>2863754Wanna bet that uygha is some Poorsian diasporoid who thinks he’ll get to Agartha if he blesses Israel enough?
>>2863730Isn’t Ireland’s GDP inflated by its status as a tax haven tho?
>>2863679No point in replying to that nazi. Dude is too far off into the alternate reality of AI slop curated by the MUSKrat and his big tech plutocrat buddies. Have you seen how whenever presented with factual arguments he shifts into another point entirely?
Really scummy mofo. Possibly a troll screenshotting this convo to show off his butt buddies on Facebook to rile them up into more hatred. I mean, consooming agitprop and hate-scrolling is what they love the most after all.
>>2863859>No point in replying to that nazi.Well, I suppose I have the Christian hope that all men are capable of repentance
>>2863860>capable of repentanceEven for being retards like you?
Ann Widdecombe was an evil bitch and world now has one less cunt.
>>2863888Yes, I must always consider my own personal ignorance, lest I be hubristic.
>>2863612
>>2863596
Bro, drop the act. We know you don’t care about any of that.
>>2863859>Wanna bet that uygha is some Poorsian diasporoid who thinks he’ll get to Agartha if he blesses Israel enough?He's been making bad faith obsessedfaggot threads about islamist BBC califate takeovor on the main board for years now. And yes he is iranian diaspora.
>>2863916The first step to curing your racism
>>2863905https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kPIdRJlzERoWould be great to make this the number one hit for British music charts this summer
>>2863859Ireland's GDP is inflated but all their other stats are real. E.g. GDP per capita is ridiculously higher but wages are actually higher.
>>2863793I live here and loyalist symbolism has been going off the deep end with AI posters and international right tendencies poorly bolted on. I've been considering recently how they've evolved over the years into a sort of esoteric loyalism, entirely divorced from any sort of coherence. If Paisley was the OG, we in the Evola era.
Frankly be glad you don't have to live with these people and their "culture"
>>2864097is there a single ideology / identity on the planet less sympathetic than loyalism? it's like the perfect cut-out obvious bad-guy loser-of-history ideology.
(it's a close run thing with zionism, but israel is a much less ridiculous project with some underlying competence… and i mean, loyalists are zionists out of sheer contrarianism which is one of the worse reasons to be a zionist.)
>>2861990>>2862096>>2863523>Genuinely though does count binface actually have a chance at winning?No cule but we can only hope dog
>78% of council spending goes on social care statutory duties (e.g. they can't choose to spend the money on anything else or make different trade offs, central government has decided for them and it would be illegal to do anything else.)
obscene
I just got groomed again lads.
Is Count Binface the proletarian candidate?
>>2864403The proletariat has no party in Britain.
>>2864407binface doesn't have a party either (although the MRLP are considering him apparently)
>>2864403>Counthe's bourgeois swine
>>2864431Not even - pure aristocracy
>>2864431>>2864433Kropotkin also came from aristocracy
>>2864403he wants to being back ceefax
so yes
>>2850860aint happening dawg, there aint a single british politician interested in saving that sad island. Inshallah britain will be swallowed by the sea and bongs get put outta their misery
>>2864477>KropotkinAnd he ended up a social chauvinist supporting the entente
>>2864663Also what the fuck its such a tiny bonfire. What a gimp.
>>2864761>It's dying like our world is dying Oh, the horror!
Watching the World Cup has got me into sports a bit ngl, are there any actual leftist sports teams on this island or globally you'd recommend considering supporting?
St Pauli seem to be filthy ziodogs, i've heard some Celtic fans will give you serious shit and abuse just for being English even if you are clearly fully pro-Republican, pro-Palestine, pro-Indy etc.
>>2864868>Thoughts on burqa-baby seagull gate?Take it to /ISG/, twitteroid.
>>2863848They gonna krikifed Widdecombe or what?
Shout out to the CPGB-ML who were out in full force at the Durham Miners' Gala yesterday and fucking attendence-mogged the CPB. Was kinda mad they were everywhere I didn't even realise there were that many of them.
>>2865006Always wondered why that one dirty uncle has Crystal Palace of all teams. Thanks.
>>2865006>american style cheerleaders>half are butter-facesNever change, England. Never change
Our city's newspaper didn't even do a story about pride this year, while posting interviews with like 4 people watching tennis in the city centre on the big screen, and our MP didn't come either despite making hay for years out of being our "first gay MP" etc. Bleak.
Has anyone got the British left wojak political compass meme?
>>2864996I dunno, they had a stall in with all the ultras next to the burger stand. Even the Yorpers got a stall in the main bit. Anyone else here go to the Gala?
>>2865129Good. You should boycott pride anyway unless all corporations and the police are banned.
>>2865382that's a cool opinion but I actually do think we need to stand up against the outright assault on LGBT by popular society. maybe if it was 10 years ago I would have agreed with you. there wasn't even any corporations there anyways, all local organisations like CAB, drug program, charities, etc etc.
>>2861569Gal reminds me of Muke
I think it's her way of speaking.
>>2865399Yeah I do understand what you were saying I was just being needlessly hostile. Though I personally will never go to a pride march.
>>2865006My dad chose this random London team to support called Charlton and Crystal Palace were their biggest rivals, though nowadays Charlton fell off very hard so they don't even get to play Crystal Palace. He never lived in the Charlton area btw he just chose them because they were underdogs or something. Anyway so I grew up being told Crystal Palace and Chelsea fans are all upper class tories and I thought they were basically comic book villains for a long time.
>>2865399Open queerphobia where I live has got as bad as the overt racism, it’s mental
>>2865421I never would have expected things could backslide this far, I always figured LGBT acceptance was a kind of inevitable historic trajectory, society has been so mindraped by Elon Musk et al. I can't even blame the tabloids alone because even under the Murdochreich of the 2000s things improved a lot.
>>2865420>Anyway so I grew up being told Crystal Palace and Chelsea fans are all upper class tories and I thought they were basically comic book villains for a long time.Crystal Palace doesn't really
look posh to me in the way that Chelsea does. Like it's this south London team while upper-class Tories are more of a West London thing (?), but I don't know the U.K. landscape very well. It's funny it's named after the actual Crystal Palace which Karl Marx visited during the height of a particular period of 19th century bourgeois megalomania. I might relate to that though because I root for the Cowboys. An English fan here for the World Cup took the piss out of the billionaire owner of team on the local news in a way that only the English really know how to do.
>>2865144They were giving out The Spark everywhere reckon 20-30 of them.
>>2865451We should just have a British football team, hardly as if Wales are ever going to qualify for anything
>>2865424>>2865399Yh, and what’s baffling is that so many of the rich oligarchs bankrolling the British section of the ChudIntern as well as part of its mockingbird influencer network are themselves gay, like Oli London, Dan Wootton, Peter Whittle, Douglas Murray, Julie Bindel, Peter Thiel, etc… are openly gay and yet won’t say a thing against homophobic gammons that they support.
But maybe not, considering that it’s not like they’ll be targets of homophobia any time soon.
Then again, bourgeois gays coexisting with homophobia isn’t exactly unknown in Britain whether it’s Enoch Powell supporting the repeal of anti-sodomy laws, the infamous student-student and student-teacher buggering in British boarding schools, etc…
So yh, it’s a very cynical ploy. And I’ve got no sympathy for the bourgeois gays tbh.
>>2865399Homophobia and now transphobia have always been much more demented, antisocial and obsessive than racism ever was but vague brown people feelings will always trump top-down anti-lgbt practice for virtually any progressives so that is the logical result.
>>2865694>But maybe not, considering that it’s not like they’ll be targets of homophobia any time soon.It wouldnt be very hard for any regime to send CPS after their kids and jail them for pedophilia, real or invented. The majority of nihilists among them won't suffer because they built nothing and "après moi, le déluge" is their slogan but people like Thiel could greatly suffer from what he advocates becoming the unchallenged norm. Idiosyncratic San Francisco liberalism have it's limits.
>>2865701>Homophobia and now transphobia have always been much more demented, antisocial and obsessive than racism ever was but vague brown people feelings will always trump top-down anti-lgbt practice for virtually any progressives so that is the logical result.As far as idpol goes, I think it’s not really because British society is somehow more homophobic than racist, as much as the fact that race is more polarising than LGBT+ rights so society will naturally discuss more about race than gender/sexual diversity, especially trans rights. Granted, it can’t be denied that the white British lumpen are increasingly openly homophobic, but I would be lying if I said that homophilia is too entrenched in British politics for homophobia to be ever viable. Could be wrong though.
It reminds me of how in the USA, during the controversial overturning of Roe v Wade by the SCOTUS under Biden, both the GOP and the Dems prioritised the defence of gay and interracial marriages over abortion rights.
What does it say about American society? Two things:
- At least in America, race and queerness are far more polarising than gender relations are so American society cares more about race and queerness than feminism which goes both ways since the deep entrenchment of feminism combined with gender being less polarising as discourse generates societal apathy on feminist issues
- Feminists are paper tigers, contrary to what MRAs always say. If they were as powerful as MRAs say, Roe v Wade wouldn’t have been overturned. And I would say the same goes in the UK, where feminists are heavily reliant on the ChudIntern, oligarchs, establishment and boomer support for their power. If that is gone, what then?
Leftypol quick who was the Black ML in labour in the 2010s? Was a Corbyn supporter but kept on getting heat for being an actual ML.
>>2865451I clocked that wild shit. Apparently there is a growing "Loyal" firm tendency in Welsh football. Seen Swansea Loyalists too.
>>2865723That is the most early 2010s video possible how the fuck is it only 3 months old???
>>2865723It's the Hufflepuff, fam!
>>2865723Amazing, this is almost on Connor O'Malley's level, I'd figured the British would never achieve that grade of cultural development.
>>2865723My ex sent me this video after two years of not talking
>>2865873that was me. hey babe. it's been too long since I felt your insides with my magic rod
>>2865794we were making stuff like this in the 00s.
>>2866644>communist terroristDoes such a thing actually have precedence in history?
Lenin spoke directly against it - only anarchists and fascists think vigilante justice is praxis.
>>2866675Yeah, the student movements of the 1950s-1990s urban guerillas did a lot of stuff like this, look at the german movement (Red Army Faction)
>>2866675Is an assassination really terrorism? I'm pretty sure communists have assassinated a bunch of people.
>>2866690terrorism is typically defined as politically motivated murder
>>2866688are maoists really communists, though?
>>2866694>terrorism is typically defined as politically motivated murderSo killing Trotsky was terrorism?
>>2866694>terrorism is typically defined as politically motivated murder<Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.[1] The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants.[2] There are various different definitions of terrorism, with no universal agreement about it.[3][4][5] Different definitions of terrorism emphasize its randomness, its aim to instill fear, and its broader impact beyond its immediate victims.[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerrorismMost people define terrorism as when you kill random people for political ends, you know, to like sew terror in the general populace?
>>2866699also yeah most communists would likely disavow this action even as the guy likely was a sole operator doing this without the backing of the wider public or an organization, if they are a communist they have just agitated the state against communists for no good reason without an org to follow through with it.
>>2866694>terrorism is typically defined as politically motivated murderLet's be real here, terrorism is whatever the state says it is, there is no "real" definition that is actually applied coherently by anyone
>>2866700Anne Widdecome isn't a 'random person' though. She was a rightoid politician.
>>2866735Yeah that's what I'm saying. I wouldn't count a targeted assassination as terrorism.
>>2866740They'll count anything as terrorism. They'll count throwing milk shakes at politicians as terrorism.
It is our woman-hating genderwoo-loving society that killed Ann Widdecombe.
>>2866747Its true and the reason why I dont think this is really terrorism is because it doesnt have the backing of any communist party, period. Its just a lone actor who has a copy of the manifesto who the state is likely going to use as a casius bell to make being a communist proscribed.
>>2866736Define "terrorism", then.
Someone had to do it.
>>2866755I just said. I would say it is killing random members of the public in number so as to instill general terror among a population that it could happen to them too.
>The police investigation into the death of Ann Widdecombe is examining whether a leftwing or single-issue cause may lie behind her killing, the Guardian has learned.
Oh no.
>>2866818Farage sacrificed her to Moloch to avoid the embarrassment of losing his seat to Count Binface
We need a new thread
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