>Bye, bye, Microsoft! – editionhttps://www.zdnet.com/article/china-drops-windows-for-linux/The Chinese question is: how does a comfy non-imperialist nation transform itself into a global socialist model that can be reproduced and adopted by the rest of the world, without either reproducing the aggressive and counter-productive policies of the USSR or appearing toothless, while resolving the contradictions of the so-called first world FOR THEM and liberating them from capitalist domination, therefore using the empire's collapse to accelerate material conditions to enable the global revolution?
<A thread for the harmonious discussion related to the saviour of socialism, the uplifter of nations, the king of cooperation, the soviet of SOVL, the enjoyer of empathy, the ally of Africa, the demigod of development, the bureaucracy for banter, the prince of ping pong, the lobotomizer of labour aristocracy, the protector against proxy wars, the sponsor of sophisticated sciences and culture, the guarantor of gommunism, the Proletarian Dictatorship of Chynah™.Original threads:
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>>2832385 Deng lost.
>>2901158Deng literally made possible communism.
>>2901155this feels overkill
>>2901157gimmicks, tbh
show me infrastructure like solar panels, hospital automation and reforestation. I'm sick of booj treats and marching footage.
>>2901166Surprised to find a fellow Mexican Chiapanecan online.
>>2901155Wow, china uses light fans to display images just like my western office does!!!!1
This is cool tech, but you're being a nationalist faggot right now. This is showing off a cool kid doing cool things, not some chinese innovation.
Why some bourgeois states have dedicated generals on lefty/pol/? Can I make a general for my own bourgeois shithole?
>>2901166so you are not a
fan? >>2901167<the total automation of physical labour is mere>gimmicks, just because it is Deesplayed (tm)Marx would spit on you
>>2901170>Wow, china uses light fans to display imagesin reality:
<China did a cool fucking thing>just like my western officeLol, uygha, your "Westrn Office" didn't innovate for 30 yrs, LMAO
Has anyone followed the 14th five year plan? Hows the progress? Did they meet their goals for crushing the "3 mountains"?
Actually come to think of it, the robots and the more extreme streamer / influencer culture might be related. Like it's a more dynamic capitalist economy really for good and for ill, contradictory as it were.
is this, traditionally, the anti-leftcom/anti-ultra thread?
>>2901170>My western officei've never seen anything like this in my life so maybe you are high up on the food chain
>>2901179Not much. trying to find a decent price in central mexico for appartments
China is nice!
(Controversial statement in the deteriorating Western world.)
>>2901165> for completely eliminating physical labourMaybe I'll live just long enough to see most of humanity mulched by the rich after we become worthless eaters. Like the old quote goes, the only thing worse than being exploited by capital is NOT being exploited by capital.
So apparently there was this flood catastrophe in Choynah, and my lib news outlet is already telling me thqt the Choynese state figures of 7 confirmed dead is false, the "reality" is like 600 dead, which number the communist party of Choynah is covering up….
Democratic China will be better world leader than USA, and potential Russia great allies. Communism cucks it’s full potential tbh.
>>2902653"democratic" cope, by democratic you mean liberalism where the rich can buy the state from the outside and the population can play with the stress ball that is elections, but as shown today where every "democratic" nation is marching to be a failed state, russia included and china is rising in every metric shows your claim of it being cucked to be completely wrong.
The KMT will come back and all of the CPC’s little “accomplishments” will be for nil
>>2902653i wanna kill you
>>2902653I agree if they were more imperialist the PRC would be more based (historically progressive)
>>2902653Does anyone know what language this is? My AI language to English translator only works if you know what the input language is.
I still wouldn't call China socialist, but it's undeniable that state capitalism (or, to be more precise for their case, state-directed capitalism) is superior to westoid finance capitalism for national development. It's still not what I want, but there's no denying it's better.
>>2902854Yeah, even if you don't believe that China is socialist, there's no way you can claim that China is equal or worse than USA for the world. Lesser evil at the very least, or a straight up communist country - zero reasons not to support China
Deng won.
>>2901184>replacing human labor like… uhh athletic sportsgimmicks.
Marx would smile and shake your hand and then write a letter to Engels calling you a Jewish nigger.
Den Wong
>>2901191Yes, it has.
You are hilarious, and I like you, but I hope you stay online and far, far away from the socialist movement.
>>2901150I don't doubt your experience. Development is very uneven. My country doesn't have high-speed rail and some countries have had lines running for over 60 years.
Hologram fans were commercially available (in less advanced form) for around 10 years now:
https://hd-focus.com/news/when-were-hologram-fans-invented-85182389.htmlhttps://www.dseeholofan.com/about-usI only know this by chance, it's not common knowledge.
>>2903461This won't end well since main lander males are bunch of incel.
What did he get right and what did he get wrong?
https://mrkrudd.substack.com/p/the-evolution-of-chinese-economic>Xi Jinping—for those of you who have read his stuff, and I made it my business to read all of his stuff when I, at the tender age of 59, decided to do a DPhil at Oxford and produced a book called On Xi Jinping, having studied for four years his ideological framework—takes ideology seriously, in a country which takes ideology seriously.
>If you read Xi Jinping’s ideological framework carefully, my three-line summary of the ideological changes he’s brought about in the Chinese system is as follows.>Number one, Xi Jinping deliberately set about moving the centre of gravity of Chinese politics towards the Leninist left: more power for the Party.>Two, he also took a deliberate decision, probably from the 19th Party Congress in 2017, to move the centre of gravity of Chinese economic policy towards the Marxist left.>And three, throughout this period, we see a parallel shift in China’s approach to its foreign policy and national security policy by moving its centre of gravity towards the nationalist right.>If we are to make sense of the Xi Jinping ideological project, it is reflected in these three dimensions.
>[…]>>2902597i have found that people in general have retarded ahistorical beliefs. the reason for some younger people "liking hitler" is probably because they think hitler was opposed to zionism or something schizophrenic like that.
if you think
zionism = jews
and hitler = against jews
you conclude
hitler = against zionism
meaning
hitler = anti racist freedom fighter
>>2904718Marx and Engels were cretins in their personal lives and in the first international, they would be victims of purges in any communist party that ever actually took power
>>2904724Engels and marx were gigachads who fugged to tier gorilla grip pussies while having devoted loyal wives, the fuck you be talking about uninformed uygha?
>>2904730You mean besides the multiple times Marx was caught cheating on Jenny? Mao would have forced Marx to face Willich in the duel when challenged
>>2904732Marx cheated and still didnt get dumped? Ultragigachad, pinnacle of male succes and domination.
>>2904735Jenny didn’t have the legal or practical opportunity to leave hin
What are some key reading about China? I want to learn more about the socialist experiment in China.
>>2904783milton friedman's collected works should get you started
>>2904744Suck my fucking dick
>>2904724True, but not for the reasons you're describing
>>2904999Politics is class conflict and personality is a big factor because people are in positions to influence things directly
>>2904597I think it’s just due to communism is rising and when communism the elites push fascism so both extremes rise or whatever
>>2902597Fascists don't like to say that they bootlick finance capitalists, really the only reason a fascist would claim to dislike the PRC is the Gaokao policy favoring national minorities, or wanting more emphasis of Confucianism (even though Confucian ideology is already steadily growing even under PRC).
Famously ᴉuᴉlossnW claimed Stalin as the fascist leader of the USSR, Yukio Mishima famously said that his only disagreement with the Communists was on the question of the Emperor.
>>2908309
how old is your civilization?
>>2907762yeah of course the bourgeoisie push fascism but when they meet with success among alienated youths who develop ahistorical retarded beliefs, and some of those youths are not even petty bourgeois, there is a superstructural aspect of their reasoning which supports their shaky and contradictory beliefs. One can follow the train of ill-logic to approximate what it is many of them think.
>>2909554in America we have empty suburbs. the real estate companies just keep building mcmansions and sitting on them as speculative assets. but god forbid a country plan for future growth.
>>2910599I live in an "older" neighborhood and there's a new neighborhood down the street that is kind of stately where I walk my doggo through to get to the park and I swear half the houses are unoccupied and are just being sat on for speculation.
Anyways here's a song. It's actually quite catchy.
>>2910921…a ghost town, dare I say?
America has the AI bubble and China has the humanoid robot bubble.
>>2910921i'm so sorry but it sounds like she's saying
>injuns in my faggotry >>2910795Why not show the chinese state media stating this
>>2910945because it never happened
>>2910944u r forgiben, my son
>>2912248>socialism is when povertyThis is why nobody takes you seriously
>>2912248We fight for bread but we fight for roses too
>>2903941that looks terrifying
they handle them as if they were objects
>>2912251he is referring to capitalist owned luxury apartments in the video, not government owned rent free apartments
>>2912253socialism is when hedgehodges are in control
>>2912257>capitalist owned??? Do you think that specialists-stakhanovites shouldn't be rewarded for their hard labor?
I want to love China but there's two non-negotiables they fail:
- I can't run my mouth. I can sit here and call the leader of my country a lying sack of shit in public and nothing will happen to me; not in China. I simply cannot trust any leader who bans criticism of himself.
- Porn is banned. I'm too much of a gooner, this is simply a non-starter.
>>2912405You get around those with a VPN, just don’t be too harsh or deliberately draw attention to yourself
>>2912405> I can't run my mouth. I can sit here and call the leader of my country a lying sack of shit in public and nothing will happen to me; not in China. I simply cannot trust any leader who bans criticism of himself.There are things you cannot criticize in the West. If you say them you will be punished harsher then anything you can say in China.
> Porn is banned. I'm too much of a gooner, this is simply a non-starter.Stop gooning so much. Don't do it so much it rots your brain like this.
>>2912405>Porn is banned. I'm too much of a gooner, this is simply a non-starter.Dawg chinese people are giga-gooners. Don't treat the literal text on the legal papers as what's actually the content of the society.
>>2912413You can goon in china, just do it inside of someone’s holes in private consensually, the party doesn’t give a fuck
>>2912405Why do you want to bad mouth Xi? You can bad mouth Trump in China just as well as in USA, be happy with that
>>2912416Of course, but that other anon has rotted his brain with so much pornography he didn't realise this. The anti-porn legislation in China is for the good of the people including both the women exploited by this industry and men who suffer porn addiction.
You don't need a capitalist porn industry or anyone else to get off. You can create a picture yourself with pencil and paper, fantasize about it, and get off. So you could even get excited in a prison with nothing and the situation in China isn't even that bad. There is still plenty of ways to get porn. The only reason this would even be a fucking issue is if you have serious brain rot from a porn addiction.
>>2912413That's not really true. The West is designed to give people the illusion of having political agency. You can scream into the void as much as you want, nothing changes anyway. It nevertheless is a red flag if you don't even offer people that illusion but shut down dissent completely and force people to act like they approve.
>>2912405Whats bad about banning porn unironically? Porn industry as a whole should be banned.
>>2912419It's not even about whether I want to or not, it's the fact that I can't even if I change my mind. If he decides to do something I think is catastrophically stupid, it doesn't matter - I still can't criticise him. The law presumes he is infallible - or, rather, prioritises making him appear infallible.
>>2912421There’s a billion people in China, by law of large numbers you’re gonna find someone up for casual sex and I’m sure WeChat has an okcupid/tinder style dating function for this
The development of industrial capitalism simplified class antagonisms. Where before there were many classes, afterwards there were only two: the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. However, the development of information technology has complicated the class system. From the development of information technnology has emerged a new social class: the giga-gooners.
With the emergence of giga-gooners capitalism has created an entire class in the developed countries with no revolutionary potential. Ask a giga-gooner to give up everything and set up a base camp in the mountains and they will cry: "where is my smut?"
>>29124592 is debatable but 1 is not. 1 is the opposite, it's the leader going me me me.
I just don’t like Chinese aesthetics
>>2912428China has tiered council system ala Soviets, you air your grievances to your representative, if there are enough people like you, who also air their grievances to their representatives, all the representatives air your and their grievances up and up and up. Xi can be dismissed from his position by national congress, there is a law about this, and national congress consists of representatives of lower level councils.
>>2912428There's mechanisms for internal criticism
You, a bourgeois brained liberal, just think that democracy consists in spreading counterrevolutionary propaganda thru the media in a "marketplace of ideas"
That's not criticism, that's rabble rousing
Xi status?
>>2912488then don't live in China.
>>2912421There is no such thing as "porn addiction"
It is simply incel guys only way of coping
Give all these "porn addicts" a chance to be with any real woman and they will drop porn in a heartbeat
>>2913382I knew a guy who was tall, hung, married to a hot chick, had kids with her, and still watched a lot of porn and even paid for it. I think he qualified as addicted to it.
>>2913384>HungHow do you know this lmao
>>2913382Women do not replace porn. Do you stop watching cooking channels after cooking and eating?
>>2912253never saw a pig farm award
>>29133822 rights 1 wrong
>>2913385his wife told everyone whether they wanted to hear it or not
>>2912253watch dominion lol
>>2912253Animals are objects and should be treated as such
>>2913575People are animals
Animal should be treated as objects
Therefore people should be treated as objects
>>2913575>>2913621jackie treehorn treats objects like women, man
>>2912253Chinese people are notoriously inconsiderate of animal welfare
>>2913645People in Asia in general aren't know for welfare of animals, the idea of welfare of animal is a western thing, being more frank I considered people who mistreat animals as barbarian and inferiors.
>>2913652I think its also relative.
For example, Indians venerate cows, while we eat them.
Arabs like cats, but hate dogs, and so on.
From the time of Aesop's Fables, to Francis of Assissi, to Grimm's Fairy Tales, Walt Disney and the Furry movement, I do see a particular veneration of animals in general by Westerners. White women are especially fond of treating animals better than fellow human beings, which can also be rather exclusive. For example, Hitler was a fan of animals, and a vegetarian, while also valuing animals over fellow men.
>>2913658almost everyone who "treats animals better than humans" only does it with some select animals, like domestic dogs. I also find it very tiresome when people go "you know who else was a vegetarian? that's right. Hitler." yes and I'm sure Hitler also understood that 1+1=2, but I'm not going to reject the equation on that basis alone.
The real thing is to treat both animals and humans without cruelty, which is needless. It is entirely possible to defend yourself and acquire food without needless cruelty.
>>2912703Only in theory. They would never dare actually try to do it - even suggesting the idea to try to gather support would get you locked up on sedition charges or something. He is a dictator, there is no fudging around it.
>>2912704I can already tell you use the ML definition democracy, which isn't democracy (don't even bother - no, I will not accept it). It's just a rhetorical cover for absolute power by whoever is in charge, that's it. You can dress it up however you want, it's not democracy.
>>2913670not the anon, but if all societies are objectively class dictatorships, then there is no real ideal "democracy" in the bourgeois sense of the word where you have this multiparty pluralistic society where all classes have an equal say, that's absurd. some classes always have more power than others, that's what makes them classes in the first place. so the conventional definition of democracy where the bourgeoisie and proletariat have an equal say is silly. if you have reservations about the "ML definition" of things then say what the alternative is. how do you create a society where the working class, the majority, all have a say in governance without creating the "too many cooks in one kitchen" problem?
>>2913712If we're going to be more particular, the only *actual* way is direct democracy, but that becomes exponentially difficult to handle as the number of people involved grows. Otherwise, the task has to be outsourced to a political class, so it matters what the character of that political class is. In China, the political class - the Communist Party - is a self-selecting entity that gatekeeps who gets to be part of the class so the status quo - where they hold ultimate power - is not disrupted. The public holds no mechanism of accountability or authority of any kind over them short of violence. Anyone who claims China is "democratic" is simply axiomatically asserting the Party represents the will of the population, but without any mechanism to hold them accountable *to* the population, there is no way to actually make that happen.
>>2913764what if political will of the majority is stupid? what if "the people" (interclass construct) always vote to give their direct democracy away and replace it with management by a political class? Or even worse, what if they vote to preserve their short term interests as a particular generation of people over the long term stability of the society (as boomers have done in the USA)
>>2913670>They would never dare actually try to do it - even suggesting the idea to try to gather support would get you locked up on sedition charges or something. He is a dictator, there is no fudging around it.Wrong, Chinese do vote people out of elected offices all the time.
https://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0919/c90000-9116649.htmlThere was also Zhou Sufen (???) in Hunan, but I can't find a good link, google fights me all the way declaring that Soviet-style law for recalling elected officials by lower level Soviets doesn't exist in China or doesn't work or is never used, lol, despite the fact that google does find evidence that it works and is used often.
>>2913987
uygha everyday there is a mass shooting, school shooting, gang shooting in the fucking america and you decided to pick a random video of a violence in a country with near two billion people.
why burgers are so retarded?
>>2913987
Patriarchy still exists in Capitalist and Dengoid China. Same with every other nation of earth. It's that simple.
>>2914045xi is like in his 70s, he is not immune to strokes, especially at this age. its pretty weird realizing that kim is probably gonna outlive both xi, cucktin and trump, atleast if his weight doesnt kill him first
>>2914045Cringed at having to sit with reactionaries
>>2913952Disingenuous. Politicians above the local level are all appointed, not elected, meaning you can't achieve higher office without the approval of the existing party hierarchy. The people cannot put you there, they have no say in the matter.
>>2913866The political will of the majority *is* stupid, I agree. I'm far more interested in electoral mechanisms as a way to mitigate abuse of power than actually allowing majoritarian politics, especially since in the vast majority countries, that would lead to some flavour of rightist drivel. Only in a country socialised over the long term within a socialist economy might have an egalitarian majority, as socialism being perceived as the norm would cause the sheep (ie conservatives) to settle into and reflexively defend it simply out of familiarity and fear of change. But you have to get to that point first, and no socialist experiment has lasted for even a century.
What I want, really, is the socialist inverse of the capitalist west: you can vote for whoever you want, as long as they don't threaten the economic system. Presently, that's capitalism; I want to make it socialism instead. The resource disparity between the two sides might make more authoritarian measures needed to make that safe of course, like outright banning capitalists from politics is almost a given I think since even a small capitalist presence will be disproportionately resourced and influential. Whether we need a vanguard party or multiple parties is up for debate; the important thing is not going the Leninist route and banning factionalism, whether that's between parties or within one. Otherwise, that is an easy excuse for exercising absolute, unquestionable authority, which then hinges the country's fate entirely on one man's whims.
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