DAJ MI PIENIĄDZE (GIVAS MONEY) Edition (See second post)
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>>2903067Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740https://azovlobby.substack.com/https://banderalobby.substack.com/—————————————————–
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>Video Essays / Historical Background📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q📺 • The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8d6Vzi7zYghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODWTfMwFGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zuygh9Mzuo
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>>2911598Russia is getting desperate!
>>2911392No disagreement from me there, because you're correct that they are pro-attacking Russia but they're not pro-dying for Ukraine.
I'd say therefore that doesn't add up to being pro-War
really, as said in
>>2911404 it's a common mindset in Eastern Europe which has now finally demanded that Ukraine put their money where their mouth is… and…. yeah.. it is just fronting as suicidal demonjaks after all and always has been. Death is not in fact a "small price to pay" for butthurt belters to see "Russia burn".
>>2911198>No Marxists in these threads t argue this. Don't care if this isn't "orthodox marxism".
>Who financed AzovBourg, petite bourg, lumpen? We see rightoids funded without the bourg too (organized crime in particular).
>it wasn't the soviet state. It included members of the soviet state. Because this didn't prevent people from being reactionaries. Because not all reactionary impulses are down to class.
>How many high ranking officials of the azov, kraken, right sektor, etc. have been arrested and sentenced to jail?Tornado is a good example of a militia being sentenced. But both cases you can find examples of reactionaries being imprisoned and reactionaries being turned a blind eye to.
>you just simply hate Russia, for whatever reactionary position you have.Deludu. You think I don't criticize other states for the same reasons?
But to me it's getting obvious what you're trying to convince me of; something something Russia is (slightly?) less reactionary therefore we need to supp000rt the war. But that isn't my position. It's about reactionary bullshit in general.
>Your idea of the Kremlin.Yeah man I'm imagining all this anti-LGBT/traditionalist stuff and migrant crackdowns and deals with the Taliban and inviting western rightoids.
>So you agree that fascists and nazism aren't reactionaries?Not gonna bother with this. There's more to nazism than bourg control of the state.
>>2911290<It wasn't REAL nationalismNationalist porkies and non-nat liberation oriented nationalist movement have a track record of screwing over the working class. They did no different in Germany and Italy.
>The EU project is in principle neoliberal project.Interesting. But I'm still not excusing reactionary nationalism-traditionalism in Russia. And I still don't care if they'll feel humiliated and big sad if they
somehow end up losing the war.
>>2911598The only problem is that i know for sure it's the polish far right that does it.
We can laugh how polish fascists shit on ukrainian fascists but in the end it's the same shit.
>>2911770I think that the ultimate goal is to pass anti-migrant laws but not because they really care about national purity - all they want to do is to send the ukrainians back so that they get instantly mobilized and sent to the trenches.
I am 100% sure the syrians and indians and whatnot will stay and these laws will be used selectively.
>>2911770Poland may be the only place where Ukrainian refugees are getting propaganda like muslims in western europe damn.
>>2911770>I doubt any of you can read PolishWrong. Powsjz dzisjize piszswe jsxzw xiscj.
>>2911776I don't think anyone's actually going to deport Ukrainians, from the govt's perspective they are a boon to the labor market. The media and the rightwing parties like to stew resentment against them because they're an easy target to redirect the blame for how fucked the housing market and the healthcare system is.
>>2911782This is so fucking stupid then, they generate hate to gain votes and then do fuck all because they actually like that status quo. Playing with fire and all that.
>>2911785>they generate hate to gain votes and then do fuck allNot fuck all, agitating resentment creates a threat hanging on Ukrainians refugees and make them more complacent.
NATO and Russia both deserve to lose, death to all of Europe and yes, Russia is European. “Eurasian” is a lie and sanitization of Tsarist manifest destiny nonsense from the 18th-19th century.
>>2911782>I don't think anyone's actually going to deport UkrainiansThe EU already amended the EURlex
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L_202601912First step, this step: New individuals need proof of served in the military (or UA official waiver, i.e. some rich kid or politician's kid).
Evidence in:
>To this end, without prejudice to Union law and fundamental rights, temporary protection should only be granted to individuals who can provide proof to Member State authorities that they are, where applicable, in compliance with their military obligations. Considering the need to take into account the current defence needs as determined by Ukraine, and without affecting the situation of persons who already benefit from temporary protection in a given Member State before or on the date of the entry into force of this Decision and who retain such status in that Member State continuously after that date, the requirement that individuals provide proof that they are in compliance with their military obligations should apply from the entry into force of this Decision, which should be the day after its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.Next: No more renewals after 2028.
>>2911597Wir schaffen das.
The war has cost the Kremlin €110 billion in six months
<Despite President Vladimir Putin's recent claims of economic stability, Russia's public finances are rapidly deteriorating due to surging war costs and domestic disruptions, such as fuel and supply chain issues caused by Ukrainian strikes.
<According to German economist Janis Kluge's analysis of Russian finance ministry data:
>Record Spending: In the first half of 2026, Russia spent 10.7 trillion rubles (approx. €110 billion) on the military. This is a 30% increase from the same period in 2025, contradicting the Kremlin's initial goal to reduce defense spending this year.
>Budget Impact: Factoring in both public and secret expenditures, over half of all state revenue is now going toward the war. If this rate continues, military spending will exceed 9% of GDP by December, a new post-Soviet record.
>Deficit and Debt: Concurrently, oil and gas revenues have fallen. By the end of July, the budget deficit reached 2.8% of GDP, almost double the target for the entire year. To cover this, Russia is being forced to rely on new, exceptionally expensive domestic borrowing. inter
>>2911802Inter-anti-imperialist conflict.
>>2911800For a country with ~150 million, and a GDP of ~2.7 trillion, 110bn is closer to a rounding error by comparison to what ukraine is facing.
>>2911800For a full-scale war between two modern armies, 110 billion is like nothing. It only shows that Russia is far from being at the point where it starts to really hurt and where daily life within the country starts to become different.
What did Russia spend during Covid?
On the flipside, the only thing that keeps Ukraine running is Western support, and that can not go on forever.
>>2911851People say it's not a class conflict but it actually is.
The EU has shown they don't give a flying fuck about about the citizens of the EU, they care more about some democracy spreading or whatever business interests they might have in Ukraine and Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe.
They are willingly throwing everyone under the bus cause they have fixated on this idea of punishing Putin for not being compliant or respecting them or whatever dumb reason they have.
Putin personally insulted them a few times, (with Crimea for instance) so now eurozone should pay cause the eurorichfags are ultra mad and demand blood.
>>2911857That's a really liberal thing to say anon. Have you considered bringing material analysis into your life?
>>2911876well the eu leaders themselves are liberals so that anon is proposing that's how they think
>>2911851>What did Russia spend during Covid? 55 billion euros on economic stimulus packages.
>>2911898The USSR did spend 20%, in peacetime no less.
>>2911800>German economistkek, look whos talking
>>2912012also, why is he mad that they arent reducing military spending, why should they reduce it in the current situation? yuroids are literally doing the same thing
>>2911809What about for EU being 4 times the population and 5 times the GDP? For them is bad but for Russia is fine?
>>2911967and look how that turned out
All the media in the West are now claiming that Ukraine had a massive breakthrough at Lyman.
I saw the mappers (also pro-Russian ones) actually adjustig the map around Lyman, but was it really that much of a breakthrough? How many Russian were in Lyman in the first place, did they ever fully capture it? How is this gonna affect their progress towards Kramatorsk/Slaviansk, is it just gonna delay the inevitable?
>>2911898The word
closer is missing.
>>2912149>I saw the mappers (also pro-Russian ones) actually adjustig the map around Lyman, but was it really that much of a breakthrough?It's a success but I don't think "breakthrough" is accurate. If that is right it's a successful, localized counter-offensive to throw the Russians back but that's not the same thing as a breakthrough which typically means a penetration into the rear that causes a whole sector to collapse.
>How is this gonna affect their progress towards Kramatorsk/Slaviansk, is it just gonna delay the inevitable?¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2912149There's zero photo or video evidence from either side of any Ukrainian advance there. Mappers are pulling map chnages out of secret tg channels and authoritative private sources aka out of their asses
There’s not much unusual about Lyman, the Ukrainians always make some kind of counteroffensyiv when Trump is pushing for negotiations to imply le tide is turning, but it’s always achieved by pulling troops from other parts of the front where Russia then makes advances and often Russia regains whatever was lost anyway.
>>2912149>Ukraine had a massive breakthrough at LymanBig if true.
But honestly these local tactical victories of suicidal conscript waves are worth shit.
Russians can afford to withdraw anywhere anytime, crater Lyman with bombs for a few days or weeks and then come back and finish off the survivors. It's literally Russian doctrine since like medieval ages, it's all about mobility.
Remember than Russia has already withdrawn from Lyman once in 2022 and here they are back at it again lol.
Unless you care about propaganda in mass media, these minor ukrainian victories are worthless.
>>2912233The Military Summary channel (and its other language channels) abide by the principle that an area is gonna change color when a) the Ukrainian/Russian MoD official confirm that it is taken or b) there have been video evidence/geolocating of an Ukrainian or Russian troop presence there. It's turned gray when one of the more serious mappers (Suryak, amk, DeepState, Anatoly Radov, etc.) reports changes.
>>2912149It's not a breakthrough, the Russian salient became untenable and they retreated.
>>2912301>serious mappers<Suryak, amk, DeepState, Anatoly RadovLol, lmao. This is just like wikipedo collegial circlejerk already
>>2912315>implying a collegial circlejerk isn't still closer to the truth than official NATO circlejerks like the ISW None of them uses Wikipedia and maps in mainstream media are pure trash, because they are just copy-posting Ukrainian agitprop - they didn't even mark Pokrovsk as Russian until one month ago.
Seems like you are unnecessarily bitter about people sacrificing hours of their day to distill vast amounts of information and disinformation to arrive at a conclusion much closer to the truth than those official sources tell you (which also rely on these bloggers more and more).
>>2912306People who have been following this war understand a tactic is to take ground that isnt prepped for defense, retreat and then let the position be 'counter-attacked' into an empty field so the artillery can churn the bussed reinforcements into meat paste.
Rinse and repeat.
It only counts if they push past it or hold it for longer than a few days.
>>2912022>why is he mad that they arent reducing military spending, why should they reduce it in the current situation? yuroids are literally doing the same thingBecause the EU is increasing military spending with a collapsing economy while Russia is mostly keeping level on the spending with a stable economy. He knows this, he can't say this, hence
>Pootin will fall in 5 seconds>4 seconds>3 >>2912339So much GDP, yet Russia outproduces all of them put together AND USA on top of that in weaponry
>>2912342does it really? russians have been claiming that for years but i've yet to see modern russian weaponry in action
>>2912348Dude, USA and Europe ran out of interceptors already. Ukraine is absolutely defenseless right now. Iran + Russia exhausted garden's defences, lmao
>>2912348They can jam Starlink now and the efficacy of their air defense is impressive, including against drone swarms. It's probably the best in the world right now. That's something.
>>2912349>Ukraine is absolutely defenseless right nowDon't be a reverse NAFO delulu. At this point Russia's weekly advances are miniscule.
>>2912342>Ziggers coping so hard they have to resort to American disinfo to try to claim victory.If China ever fights America every American think tank and paper is also going to be churning out nonstop slop about how they're running out of ammo to try to trick the Chinese, retard.
Remember this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002US Iran war simulations predicted Iran would rape the US navy to death and kill 20,000 US soldiers.
What actually has happened in the current Iran war?
Have 20,000 US soldiers died?
Has their entire navy been destroyed?
No. And yet retarded Ziggers really will try to claim that the West ran out of ammo based off fake reports floated by Western glowies.
Well if they really ran out of ammo what are they shooting you with dumbass?
>>2912339>we gots more billionaires buying yachts and ferraros, which makes line go upok, and?
>>2912357>Remember this?>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002simulation for a completely different scenario. No relevance.
>>2912357>West ran out of ammo based off based of the fact that Ukrainian cities are getting hammered 24/7 rn
>>2912366Ziggers will post shit like this unironically and then insist I should ever believe anything they say. Not to mention, the only reason Scott Ritter is even in Russia is to escape being locked up for being a pedophile.
>>2912361
the way they fight in ukraine is caused by both sides being undermanned, underequiped, undersupplied and dug in.
notice how drone warfare was almost inconsequential back in late '22 early '23
>>2912366It was real situation, though? Russian professional army mopped the floor with Ukrainians. Thing is, though, professional armies like that don't have deep reserves
>>2912357>churning out nonstop slop about how they're running out of ammo to try to trick the ChineseDo you really think that's the purpose behind Ukraine's constant demand for givas?
>>2912387Murricans live in a constant humiliation ritual, therefore they cope with their military secretly having super amazing technological edge over all the adversaries.
>>2912386No one who isn't a propagandist believes this. The Russian invasion force was led by people who were getting orders based on complete fantasy, fantasy no one was willing to suffer the consequences of challenging. Thus they were forced into tactically untenable positions from day 1, which is why the entire northern effort collapsed within a month. The way it was conducted only made sense if you had no idea what you were walking into.
>>2912394I don't disagree that Russia ended up in a very different situation than the one they expected, but it's equally propagandistic when it's suggested that's just due to incompetence and Ukraine surprised them with their military prowess.
The surprising factor is that they were
SO opposed to diplomacy, they opted for the presented alternative of immediate war. Given how predictably the situation has progressed for Ukraine, the reason for surprise is surely obvious.
Sure Ukraine was able to muster more forces than Russia had thought necessary to commit in getting Zelensky to sit the fuck down and just agree to abide by Minsk, but realistically what was the plan for Ukraine after that? I can only imagine based on the repeated attempts to defeat Russia via embarrassment since, the regrouping in Donbass was supposed to be enough of a shock that Russia leaves and abandons Minsk themselves… which… yeah, not a gamble I'd have made.
>>2912394Dude, Russia roflstomped through Ukrainian defences everywhere. There just weren't any significant reserves, as is the bane of battalion based military. I don't know what fantasy copium nonsense you are reading, fact was that Ukraine lost all of it's border regions, and Russians only stopped due to logistics and dwindling reserves.
>entire northern effort collapsed within a monthRussians were digging in in the north, then they left because of diplomatic overtures. Ukrainians at the time were screaming about getting genocided by hunger and were giving out weapons to civilians. Then they committed Bucha against people who distributed Russian humanitarian aid to population and pretended that it was Russia who did it
>>2912424>Ukraine lost all of it's border regionsThey lost the main roads and whatever settlements the Russians had the manpower to actually occupy. The countryside and most of the small villages in Sumy, Chernahiv and Kyiv were never occupied, or were simply moved through, which meant Ukrainian units could hit them from behind or ambush supply convoys because no one was watching the flanks, since they didn't have enough troops to actually do that.
The idea they left for diplomatic purposes is propaganda, I'm not debating this crap 4 years later. Their exposed supply lines left them in an untenable position as Ukrainian units began massing on their flanks. While the enemy was smaller in number, the Russian advantage in vehicles and firepower meant they could drive off Ukrainian infantry wherever they went, but once their numbers increased it was no longer possible to swat the flies, which meant their options were to either leave or let the spearheads get properly surrounded and destroyed. The only intelligent decision made in that entire debacle was to choose the former rather than digging in their heels and losing the entire force.
>>2912424>Then they committed Bucha against people who distributed Russian humanitarian aid to population and pretended that it was Russia who did ityou're embarrassing yourself, scott
>>2912437Why does it all matter what happened in 2022 if in 2026 Russia spams Ukraine with jet powered drones and Kiev literally burns every single day?
Who cares man?
>>2912491>facts don't matterYeah I know, lot of that going around these days. But as you should also know, those who do not know the past will repeat it. It's why we have fascists coming back.
If Russia hadn't fucked up so colossally in 2022, the war wouldn't even still be going in 2026.
>>2912500>the war wouldn't even still be going in 2026.What do you mean? The ongoing war hurts EU a lot more than it hurts Russia.
Sure if Ukraine was destroyed in 2022 it would've been shocking for everyone but everyone would've adapted quickly but what we can see now is that even after massive support Ukraine is not winning.
Also remember that we also had shit like Palestinian genocide and Iran-Israel-US war.
All of that combined makes NATO/US/EU look bad, people start asking questions alright.
In the end it never was about Ukraine alone but more like changing the global balance of power and so on.
>>2912508That simply not true and peddling this crap only makes me suspicious you work for the SVR or something. This "nothing went wrong this is all according to plan infinite timeline 4d chess" crap is just that, crap. The plan was to blitz the place and get replace Zelensky with an ally, when that went wrong Putin had to make up a new, less ambitious goal so he could still portray himself as having won. However, even the goal of taking the remainder of the Donbass was too much of an ask as, despite the small area in question, they still haven't taken it 4 years later, and he refuses to budge on the need to take everything within the admin borders to say mission accomplished. Sure, he probably will take it eventually, but the only way you can say it was worth it given how many years it will take is if human life has no value and throwing as much of it away to take a couple subdivisions of Ukraine as you need to is completely justified, which is just ghoulish.
>>2912510you honestly think Russia couldnt win this war in 5 minutes by just completely glassing Kyiv with conventional missiles?
the attrition is the point
>>2912511it would've if it could've
>>2912511Conventional? Absolutely not, what are you smoking. Would have to be nuclear. Against an opponent that either adapts to or has prepared against it, strategic bombing will never end a war. And attrition was never the point, it's merely being resorted to. No one on the offence ever goes into a war intending on an attritional strategy as offensive attrition is extremely costly and a last resort. Only the defender will prepare for attrition beforehand, if they realise decisive action isn't in the cards (see Iran, Afghanistan, etc).
>>2912511Firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and didn't make Japan surrender. By the end of WWII allies had more air superiority over Germany than Russia has over Ukraine right now and Berlin still had to be taken by a huge land assault.
Even a nuke on Kiev would not win the war, Russia would immediately lose all her allies including China, they'd be kicked out of the UNSC and there would be a UN-sanctioned military intervention by the world against Russia.
>>2912512>>2912516duh nukes would be dumb everyone knows that
>>2912512it currently is doing so
>>2912517and by '5 minutes' I mean by concentrating forces into a Kyiv invasion, I do think they only have interest in liberating the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine otherwise that would have happened.
>>2912510>However, even the goal of taking the remainder of the Donbass was too much of an ask as, despite the small area in question, they still haven't taken it 4 years laterThe flip side to this is the question of how is a country with conscription and NATO support failing to remove a volunteer-military from a small (relative to the total size of Ukraine) region? Because Ukraine ramming their entire force amassed via conscription into the remaining 20%-30% of the contested territories rather explains why Russia hasn't yet completed their task.
>>2912520What? Ukraine cannot ram their entire military into the Donbass, they have to man the northern border as well. Russia isn't a volunteer military anyway, most of their soldiers just don't have to be conscripted as they are economically desperate enough to sign up in case they actually survive and get the huge payouts they're promised in exchange (which actually incentivises them to be treated as disposable so they don't have to be paid). Ukraine doesn't have the money to do that, hence the van squads.
>>2912512>it would've if it could'veBruh check the fucking news for once. Kyiv IS getting fucked. They literally have empty shelves man and something is burning every single day.
>>2912523Also what a weird take.
>Russia isn't a volunteer military>soldiers just don't have to be conscripted>get the huge payouts they're promised in exchangeThat's literally the definition of a volunteer army dude.
>>2912513>No one on the offence ever goes into a war intending on an attritional strategy as offensive attrition is extremely costly and a last resort.>no oneWhat lol. Why would someone NOT attempt using a war of attrition against a weaker opponent that obviously cannot sustain a prolonged assault?
>>2912525No, a volunteer military doesn't conscript. At all. Russia does. It just doesn't make up a majority of their forces, they're still basically operating on the same conscription schedule as pre-war. They expanded the force by using convicts and offering bonuses several times what most Russians make in a year to drive volunteers. They won't need to expand conscription until that pool dries up, which given how desperately poor many areas of Russia are, probably won't be any time soon.
>>2912530Because if you can win decisively, there's no reason not to, and if attrition is the only option, you're leaving a lot to chance, as it's always possible conditions could change and put you on the backfoot, since you can't be sure how long the war will take. Indeed, if you determine attrition is the only way you can win on the offence, you have to start asking how sure you are that your opponent is, in fact, actually weaker than you. By even pursuing such a strategy, you're admitting your margin for error is much smaller since you're not powerful enough to just overpower them.
>>2912525the question was whether russia was at any point able to end the war in proverbial five minutes by deploying nuclear strikes
>>2912533Russia with east-ukraine is more in the role of playing a defensive war though, a stalemate suits them fine when they have the land they want + more manpower and can outproduce.
>>2912536That…what? They're not on the defensive, they're trying to seize territory. What are you talking about.
>>2912533>Because if you can win decisively, there's no reason not to,What makes you think that?
Okay let's say you've decisively won and replaced the government with a puppet, now what, you think there won't be any sort of partisan shit going on? Nah.
What about a situation where you bombed someone tae fuck for YEARS. I think after YEARS of living under constant alarms and bomb attacks people will welcome any government that makes sure there aren't any.
Makes sense?
Again you speak from the perspective of a someone who has limited resources to begin with. I think it's safe to assume that Russia has unlimited resources compared to Ukraine.
>>2912369The U.S. military likes to cover up its wounded but doesn't for KIA, and the next of kin are notified in person by uniformed "casualty notification officers" to deliver the bad news, and if there were hundreds of dead U.S. troops that are being covered up then we'd probably have heard about it from the parents of these people who haven't heard from their kids for months, or from their friends and boyfriends and girlfriends.
https://theintercept.com/2026/07/21/iran-war-pentagon-casualties-injuries/>>2912378He already served time for that. Also I think he's still in the U.S.? He just stopped working for RT because of sanctions. They used to pay him.
>>2912531Russia has conscription but my understanding is they don't send the conscripts into Ukraine, they have them do other stuff in Russia.
>>2912523>they have to man the northern border as well.The attempt to invade Kursk suggests this wasn’t really the case and something to exploit. I don’t think people are getting kidnapped off the streets just to stare down either Belarusian or KPA troops.
>Russia isn't a volunteer military anyway, most of their soldiers just don't have to be conscripted as they are economically desperate enough to sign upThat describes all jobs.
>>2912538most of the war has been frozen for the last few years with the line basically not moving save for a slow grind in Russia's favor, the Donbas is no longer in Ukraines hand and Russia doesnt seem that bothered about seizing anything within Ukraine's west yet.
Its 'defensive' because Ukraine is only losing ground at worst and having to attack static positions of Russia for short term gains at best.
>>2912542Yes but even within the current US casualty rate we're talking 800+
Also did you see how Trump is jewing people out of the money for this war by saying its not a war so they dont get the wartime benefits for death in service lol
>>2912555That's….not what defensive means. Like it's literally not what the word means. The Russians not only have the initiative, as in they're the ones attacking at an operational level, but their strategic goals (and thus their overall war effort) are offensive.
See arguing here is pointless because certain users not only argue in bad faith but they also just ignore the arguments or entire posts when it suits them and bail just to come back later in a few hours and do another hot take as if nothing happened.
It's always the same arguments over and over again as well, feels like certain users act like brick wall on purpose and refuse to acknowledge certain arguments.
Ridiculous.
>>2912437>Ukrainians were smaller in numberNo, they weren't. Russia had less troops than Ukraine.
>>2912542Remember soldiers getting nuked experiments in USA and how it was covered up? Every family got shush money
>>2912566Yeah, pro-Ukrainian arguments be like this. They get shown walls of text, but they still come back with their original takes a couple of hours later
>>2912566I don't know what you expect exactly. I've been arguing about this with people for 4 years, my stance is not suddenly going to change because of any particular post on an imageboard. Debate facts, sure, debate strategy, sure, debate future predictions, sure, debate whatifs, sure, but my basic stance - the invasion is not justified - isn't changing. It's a morally-based stance, so you can't logically debate me into giving it up, that's not where it comes from.
>>2912460That meme hits so hard. We are being ruled by acolytes of the Serpentigena so no surprise there.
Also, at that level you sense the raw power of angry mobs and that screws with your perception of people.
Absolutely creasing at @WarMonitor3 who is currently chimping out at the prospect of the UK’s dissolution, apparently he’s not as keen on Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish independence as he is for Ukraine’s.
Serious question. If Ukraine is winning as the pro-ukraine crowd claims it is, what is ukraines plan on retaking the donbass and crimea?
>>2912713>sure, but my basic stance - the invasion is not justified - isn't changing. It's a morally-based stance, so you can't logically debate me into giving it up, that's not where it comes from.kek, imagine outing yourself like this
>>2912822AFAIK the official (though not often stated) stance is that 1991 borders will now be restored after the conflict is over, presumably in the belief that sanctions will collapse Russia
eventually.
Of course that begs the question of why do they bother kidnapping people to send to the front and measure their current success on whether Zelensky remains alive and in power, if ackshually they’re going to get the last laugh in the end anyway?
>>2912826>The “Jewish face”>It’s a smiling face>While footage of women crying on the floor begging for their husbands not to be taken to the front circulateOh yes, I’m sure this will only bolster Ukraine’s famously world class commitment to opposing antisemitism.
>>2912566Dunno who this is targeted at, but not everything is up to debate. Personally I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to anti-LGBT shit (which does affect me and people I know), mass surveillance, inviting western rightoids, censorship, or cozying up to the Taliban because the EU is neoliberal or w/e. And I don't care if people here call me a shitlib over it.
>>2912823Outed as what? Having principles?
>>2912829>Invasions bad! Millions of Ukrainians must needlessly die therefore>I am very moralWhat other circumstances can you think of where a refusal to consider nuance (or even logic apparently) is actually principled and not just self-serving in some way?
>>2912829>I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to anti-LGBT shit (which does affect me and people I know)Also wtf are you talking about? This is precisely your gimmick ITT.
>>2912833I dunno man maybe the rampant anti-gay/trans stuff on the other side? Why am I obliged to "supp0000rt" the side who think people like me are "degenerates ruining the west"? (As per many z bloggers)
>>2912832>Invasions bad!I wonder what event lead to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dying.
>>2912836>I wonder what event lead to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dying.Liar.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgn2dzwd1do55,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed in war with Russia, Zelensky says >>2912836>I wonder what event lead to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dying.Quite a few over the 30+ years since the end of the Cold War.
>Why am I obliged to "supp0000rt" the side who think people like me are "degenerates ruining the west"?Your gimmick is claiming that Neo-Nazism in Ukraine is Russian propaganda, because you were able to have gay sex in a private apartment in Lvov without triggering anyone’s telepathic Bandera-senses, kicking the door down and lynching you.
Violent Anti-LGBT sentiment was widely documented in Ukraine when freedom of press was still allowed, but for some reason you want to provide anecdotal evidence where you and your non-Ukrainian partner had a whale of a time as tourists.
>>2912837Champ was claiming millions died. Took it at face value.
>>2912839No, I'm saying not everyone in Ukraine is a neo-nazi who thinks Russians should be genocided. I'm not claiming Azov doesn't exist, or there are no Nazis in Ukraine and so on.
I also make a distinction between overall sentiment, laws, and whether (those) laws are being enforced.
>>2912713> It's a morally-based stance, so you can't logically debate me>you can't logically debate meSo it's based ON FAITH? What the fuck are you doing on a left wing imageboard? Do you even know what dialectic materialism is or not?
>>2912840You aren’t embedded into Ukrainian society enough to make that judgement, by your own account you’re there for “work” or “curiosity” or whatever but you’ve said explicitly that you’re not invested in Ukrainian society at all.
Moreover, you’ve never even attempted to explain why there needs to be an exception for yourself by which anecdotal evidence (especially when unverifiable) ought to outweigh documented evidence. You just keep presenting anecdotes, often ones later embellished with details as required, as though that’s an counter-argument to the undeniable fact that Bandera/OUN is both able to be charged with genocide/collaboration with the Nazis as well as enjoying a heroic status within Ukrainian society and government.
>>2912840>>2912842ehm grillpill admitted thats his stance, ergo the same things that are happening in Russia are also happening in Ukraine, making him and the other moralfag hypocrites
>>2912837>everything my jewish boi says is true because ehhh… it just is, ok?fucking pathetic and critical thinking skills of a toddler
>>2912837>trusting the BBCI have a bridge to sell you
>>2912840>Champ was claiming millions died.Not exactly, millions of Ukrainians dying is the logical conclusion of never surrendering because Invasions Bad and therefore morality demands that no nuance or logic be considered.
However as discussed previously, you’ve pointed out that Ukraine already has an Operation Gladio-like capability to prevent the conflict from ending, but then pussed out of confronting the fact that’s locked Ukraine into this conflict until it’s complete destruction by claiming something like “sometimes wars just end”.
>>2912840>No, I'm saying not everyone in Ukraine is a neo-nazi who thinks Russians should be genocided. I'm not claiming Azov doesn't exist, or there are no Nazis in Ukraine and so ondude has used this tactic for the last few months
>you can't blame me, a gay dude thats in Ukraine for sex tourism, after all there are *some* nazis in Ukraine but I cant tell youHey faggot, say that to your friends in Ukraine and then post the video here, lets see how that goes
>>2912850Alright we don’t need to use that word to dunk on Thrillpill, of all the ways he has humiliated himself ITT his sexuality isn’t one of them
>>2912837>bbcBruh this is state propaganda of a country that also denied genocide in Gaza committed by Israel
Thrillpill has scarpered,
>>2912566 is right on the money.
https://archive.li/mNE8eperemoga! :D
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/84459zrada… :(
Another psychological breakthrough! Putin is reeling and spinning.
>>>2912850Tactic
Making it seems like I'm trying to "win" some stupid internet "debate". These were my personal observations. You're free to have a different point of view but afaik there aren't a lot of anon here who have visited or live in Ukraine. You think I'm full of shit? I'll say the same thing I've told Champ and others; go to Ukraine and see for yourself.
>sex touristsNever hooked up on a holiday? I still have friends too in Ukraine. Have heard them complain about Zelensky, haven't heard them complain about the country being a full on "nazi dictatorship".
>>2912845>State sponsored homo- and transphobia, abortion restrictions, courting the Taliban<Not doing thatI wonder what the difference is
>>2912843>Moreover, you’ve never even attempted to explain why there needs to be an exception for yourself by which anecdotal evidence (especially when unverifiable) ought to outweigh documented evidenceI'll continue trust my own direct observations and those of who I know personally over online grand ideological narratives thanks. Nothing more real than day to day life and all that.
>>2912875Might surprise you, but I have an offline life and obligations.
flood >>2912840Ukraine has 2.7 million "casualties", KIA, MIA, wounded, deserted. Out of that, between 700.000 and 1 million are KIA. At the beginning of the war they bragged about a million strong army. Then after that army was desteoyed, they said they built another million man army. And now, they're running out of people again and are pressganging anyone who can't bribe their way out. Now they're saying they're aiming to fill 50% of assault squads with foreigners.
Do you think Ukrainian men would be resisting recruitment if they didn't know it is a one-way ticket?
I can't wait for the inevitable "I never supported Ukraine!" once the dust settles and the truth starts coming out.
>>2912842If you believe your political stances aren't based on, ultimately, emotional reactions (positive/negative evaluation), you are simply delusional; that or you are too dumb to be capable of the self-analysis needed to understand where your own thoughts originate. If it makes you feel any better, these apply to most people. They believe their stances are objective facts backed by the universe itself. Probably ingrained ego defence or something; either way, it's not correct.
>>2912879>Might surprise you, but I have an offline life and obligations.It does actually because
>I'll continue trust my own direct observations and those of who I know personally over online grand ideological narratives thanks.means you posting here is a complete waste of everyone’s time and yet here you are.
“Grand ideological narratives” like documented evidence not being countered by unverifiable anecdotes, smh, very anarchokiddy.
>>2912886Yeah of course you don’t support Hoholistan, perish the thought! It’s just a coincidence you constantly spew NAFO talking points to downplay the 21st century’s equivalent of Generalplan Ost…NOT
>>2912887>the 21st century’s equivalent of Generalplan OstNo one sane, or unpaid, genuinely thinks this
>>2912887>It’s just a coincidence you constantly spew NAFO talking points to downplay the 21st century’s equivalent of Generalplan Ost…NOTKek. GEEEEEG even.
<we're saving donetsk people's aes… by drafting all the men there into the army to rush Bumfuckovka >>2912890You don’t have to play dumb, Hohols and their puppet masters in the Temple have been pretty open about their desire to exterminate Russian “orks” and celebrating Nazi collaborators. The post-coup government in Kiev has been rallying its people since 2014 with promises to finish what Hitler started and western leftists unironically consider that a good thing because Russia doesn’t let NGOs under the guise of LGBTBBQABC activists influence their elections.
Ukraine needs to solve the same problem the Nazis had, enforcing their sovereignty over territory that primarily has natives of the “wrong” nationality on it.
>>2912895Pure, unfiltered, schizobabble. Do you genuinely believe this war is a farcical WW2 LARP?
>>2912895>promises to finish what Hitler startedThere's no way you're not an SVR agent, no one but their actual Nazis, who are still a fringe (way less numerous than the "crypto" Nazis the Russians back in Germany), even contemplate such a thing.
>>2912899Why don’t you ask your sieg heiling buddies in Kiev? They’re eagerly playing into what you dismiss as “schizo LARP”
Again, you need to keep in mind: all schizobabble about Ukrainian Nazis is inherently disingenuous because Russia supports Nazis *outside* Ukraine. This narrative exists to make Russians believe Ukrainians are an existential threat to them and therefore it is your patriotic duty to get in the next wave.
>>2912900>no one but their actual NazisGood thing they don’t make up an overwhelming majority of Hoholistan’s population and government…NOT! How could a pseudo-nation founded by Austrian and Polish imperialists built on the genocide of the native Russian inhabitants be Nazis??? Truly a mystery!
>>2912903>anti-immigrant neo-liberals are morally equivalent to sonnenrad wielding neo-Nazis who explicitly want to exterminate RussiansThe absolute state of Hohol apologists
>>2912901They're LARPing, because when you're shipped onto a frontline you must LARP or kill yourself as you realize you're killing your fellow man for Ukraine's resource company management board. Russian soldiers are also fond of the LARP, they have Soviet LARP, Nazi LARP, Great Russia LARP, etc. The real question is why (You) are LARPing, because you're not fighting this supposed Ukrainian Hitlerite horde.
>>2912905>poland and austria conspired to make ukraineIt was actually Lenin
>>2912911It means they're not why Russia opposes Ukraine and it's just an excuse. They don't care about Nazis, they're fine with Nazis as long as they're pro-Russian.
>>2912909Nope, Poland and Austria-Hungary. There are many books on the subject but Andrei Dikiy has the most accessible analysis of “Ukrainian” history, provided you can read Russian
>>2912914Well two things there, A. “schizobabble about Ukrainian Nazis” implies you don’t believe they exist. B. it’s lib brained to think you can equate a political party that gets
labelled as Nazis with a political movement
that calls themselves Nazis
>>2912917A. No it doesn't, you're just asserting it and B. It's illegal for them to call themselves Nazis in Germany, the fact you keep ignoring that tells me it's deliberate so you can keep insisting they're not actually Nazis and therefore it's ok for Russia to support them.
We've seen the behind-the-scenes shit, the AfD are cryptoNazis. And because openly supporting them being Nazis is banned, it's impossible to tell how many of their voters are genuine Nazis and how many are simply stupid and have been fooled, not that it matters as regards the outcome.
>>2912921Funny how these supposed “cryptonazis” are the only major political force in Germany opposed to the actual existing Nazi bandit regime in Kiev…
>>2912923>the actual existing Nazi bandit regime in KievAgain, posting nonsense like that just outs you as an obvious psyops agent. It's so divorced from reality I'm not even going to argue about it, there's no arguing with anyone who actually thinks that's true.
>>2912921>It's illegal for them to call themselves Nazis in GermanyWhat does that prove?
>it's ok for Russia to support them.Feel free to substantiate that claim any time.
Your post is, in fact, schizobabble.
>>2912923Can't wait for them to get elected, re-militarize Germany, cut social programs, and buy 67 trillion eurobux worth of American weapons.
>>2912928Yeah exactly, they’ll Meloni that shit.
>>2912928Social programs are already being cut and Germany is getting re-militarized as we speak
>>2912921>No it doesn't, you're just asserting it>>2912925<the actual existing Nazi bandit regime in Kiev>Again, posting nonsense like thatSo what the fuck is it? Lmao
>>2912923>AfD>not NATO & ZOG botsdelulu
>>2912918Supporting the KONR was a major misstep on his part, but it doesn’t invalidate any of his writings on “Ukraine” and Dikiy was sincerely acting in what he thought was the best interests of the Russian people and never supported their genocide, unlike what that hit piece on Fedipedia implies
It's become very clear to me this place is simply a more verbose clone of /chug/ on /pol/
>>2912936>/pol/A place you should return to
>>2912937There's no point, there's no leftists on /pol/. I can do nothing there but tell Nazis to die over and over again.
>>2912938>I can do nothing there but tell Nazis to die over and overSo what’s your beef with this thread?
>>2912941Full of Russian agents trying to convince me Ukrainians need to die and the AfD aren't Nazis
>>2912943I’d gladly support the circumstances by which Ukrainians stop dying. Unfortunately most pro-Ukrainians do not.
>>2912945>just surrender and I won't kill youRapist mentality
>>2912947tell it to the nazis bombing the donbas before russia invaded
>>2912947They should stop trying to commit genocide on the native Russian population then
But I suppose in a sense it’s healthy that we’ve reached a point where anons admit that debate isn’t what they’re here for, it’s just
>I think invasions are immoral and that means I don’t have to consider logic or nuance
>I believe my own anecdotes over documented evidence
>Nazis are in every country, I should know, because I’m the one labelling them
*AHEM*
no war but class war
thank you for your attention to this matter
>>2912953Any war but class war.
Kiev regime is far right because it passes language laws and because communist parties are banned.
Now there’s a excuse that Ukrainian government uses which is
>we’re victims of the communism
But that’s that. Just an excuse
>>2912953Coca-Cola, sometimes War
~Rammstein
>>2912959and when you pull apart the lies about being victims of communism you realize what they mean is they where gleeful participants in the nazi genocide and then post-WW2 bullshit around holodomor and such.
>>2912962It’s a wild timeline where everything is “problematic” and “bad-thing-coded”, except for corrupt, fratricidal, Nazi-saluting, genocide honouring, goreposting, totalitarian, political party banning, Blackrock simping, language policing Ukraine.
That actually, thinking any of that is problematic is a Russian psyop.
>>2912945same, sadly russians just don't want to return to where they belong.
>>2912948i've yet to find out how come donbas still stands despite having been bombed for 8 years while mariupol got turned into dust in a week
>>2912990>no uSpicy come back.
>>2912995>mariupolSoldiers vs Soldiers, all the civvies for the most part had evacuated so gloves where off so to speak.
>donbasWas more of isolated terror bombings against civilians from ukronazis, the point wasn't to defeat a peer military army but to enact violence in revenge for voting to separate and for fascist blood libel against the USSR.
>>2912939See this song, they where singing about 'driving eas and killing the bolsheviks' in 2012
>>2912999it wasn't directed at you personally but i guess it could
>>2913003the question was: how come the town didn't get leveled not how do you justify destroying the other town
>>2913007probably due to where ever the soldiers decided to hold out got bombed, if they left it empty why bother
>>2913009so was bombas donbed or not?
before you post: do you need me to look for girkin interview where he admits he hid his invaders in urbanized areas because they got defeated everytime they went out in the open
>>2913016id like to read it, sure
https://www.facebook.com/den.kazansky2016/videos/1960680607371525/original video apparently got deleted
no english subs but i'm sure both of you understand this clip perfectly
>>2913026I dont speak eastern-europe only gods english
>>2913031it's the former donbabuean defense minister admitting he used locals as meat shields for his invader forces
>>2913033>>2913026honestly I find the tactic of firing from civilian positions less egregious in asymmetric wars, it sort of becomes required when facing a larger conventional military (hamas do this as well)
They wouldnt need to do this if they didnt decide to start massacring random proles in the Donbas though, in my mind thats what should be the focus.
>>2913040i think you got the timeline wrong: first civilian casualties were the results of russian/gru led provocations and subsequent war
unless of course you want to count clashes between oligarch-tied militias but those go as far back as late 90s
>>2913049Do communists support the balkanization of Nafoids?
>>2913052No, first casualties were the result of Ukraine using military units against Donbass separatists
>>2913052You could do this all the way back to WW2, Im aware the tensions have existed since then and have been unresolved but not to the scale that it happened in 2014.
Id like to hear about the clashes between Miltias though thats something idk much about tell me more
>>2913058military did absolutely nothing against party of regions holding their gay little rallies
>>2913061didnt ukronazis like barricade a bunch of people in a building and set it on fire
>>2913061They absolutely did send AFVs to tyrannize Donbass protesters. There are videos with AFVs destroying barricades, and then there were videos of Ukrainians dragged out of AFVs and POWed
>>2913059power in ukraine was divided between four groups of oligarchs, three of them created militias mascaraing as football hooligans and used them to clash with one another for over a decade
original azov members were recruited from one of them
and since hooligans love right wing imagery both were (at least initially) tatooed with swastikas head to toes so at some point each side of the conflict called the other side nazis
>>2913064hard to say, a bunch of people barricaded themselves in a building and started throwing molotovs
it's one of those gru provocations that turned grim
>>2913074oh I see, the protestors set themselves on fire
>>2912885>>2912950Do you think everyone here is a debate bro trying to win imaginary internet points? I treat this place like a bar.
>I believe my own anecdotes over documented evidenceChuds also tell me to "look at the graph" and discount my own eyes in favor of their race war fantasies.
>he did it first!
>no he did it first!
The biggest casualty of this conflict is the notion of “two wrongs don’t make a right”.
Moving beyond literal child logic, the distinction between the actual Ukrainian military setting up barracks in schools and placing missiles next to apartment blocks and a rebel secessionist militia is the latter are armed in *their* homes.
The Ukrainian military aren’t storing a box of guns in their personal abodes or turning their hometowns into makeshift garrisons, they’re commandeering other people’s spaces for storing and deploying weapons.
>>2913076good luck figuring out whose molotov set the building on flame
most likely both sides are equally to blame for it
the thing that started the whole clash was one of the russians on the buildingtop shot an ukr on the street
but since both sides came armed it was all inevitable so once again good luck casting blame
>>2912990> russians just don't want to returnDude fuck off this literally a far right talking point. Zionists say the same thing about Palestinians and even Christians. European far right says EXACTLY the same thing about migrants.
>>2913079No I think this is general for discussing the Ukrainian conflict, both its origins and how it progresses.
You being professing to have briefly been a sex tourist in Lvov and claiming that gives you some kind of unique insight that allows you to declare that there is in fact no discussion to be had isn’t on topic.
The other two are the same
>no discussion to be had, invasions are immoral>no discussion to be had, AfD are Russian-Backed Nazis >>2913090>Zionists say the same thing about Palestiniansand anti-zionist say the same about jews
ultimately there'd be fewer conflicts if everyone kept to where they belong, no?
Like it’s a bad case of protagonist syndrome when open discussion gets framed as
>oh everyone is trying so hard to convince ME to abandon my moralist values! But they’re never gonna get it and it makes them so mad hahahaha
>>2913093> anti-zionist say the same about jewsThey don’t
>>2913097perhaps it depends on the ones you talk to
>>2913098Anti-Zionism is not synonymous with antisemitism.
>>2913101antisemitism's got nothing to do with it
interimp
erialist
special
Anti-terroist
dengist
>>2913070Lmao of course they’re taking the angle of
>Everyone can be an FPV drone operator!That claim was responsible for more than a few dead foreign fighters.
>>2913074You should kill yourself
>>2913091Never argued there is no discussion to be had.
>sex tourist The fact some here think hooking up in a foreign country is "sex tourism" shows the level of wordliness ITT
> invasions are immoralYou're confusing me with someone else
>>2913096>Having morals is main character syndromeEspecially rich considering it was FARCanon asking me what would change my mind on Russia which prompted that discussion
I hate Russia and Putin.
>>2913141Why does Russia and her people deserve to be destroyed?
>>2913142Never said that, bro, I should be more clear , I hate the russian oligacrch and Putin, not the avarage russian person or the country itself.
>>2913149Holy projection, lmao, literally projectin word unto people.
>>2913144Suuuuuure, it’s just a coincidence you’re going to bat for the side whose explicit goal is the genocide of Russians. And throwing around Russophobic slurs on top of that
>>2913152Ok, FSB, keep it spinning my word to fit your narrative.
>>2913151Projecting what? Its a common trope most people have heard 100 times by shit libs, usually about North Korea or Cuba.
>>2913154What are you on about? I said Russian's elite should be removed, clearly they don't care to send young men to die in a stupid war.
>>2913156clean up your own house first
>>2913156No you specifically said Russia’s “oligarchs”, a NAFO buzzword meaning “any Russian who isn’t an impoverished alcoholic”
As always this thread is astrosurfed by FSB paid shills, pathethic.
>>2913164>FSB>anyone who disagrees with me is a state actorcloud land
>>2913152which side is that and where was this goal explicitly stated?
>>2913171>which side is thatNATO, the golden billion, the walled garden, the herrenvolk…many names, same enemy
>where was this goal explicitly stated?Mein Kampf
>>2913160an oligarch in context of post-soviet space is a person that was allowed to participate in foreign currency trade (forbidden for the general population) and/or privatization during the transformation of the republics
>>2913176you'll have to refresh my memory because i do not remember reading anything about russians in mein kampf. not a single word
>>2913134I’ve backpacked around Europe, I know what is possible on holiday. But the point is
>boasting about getting laid in a warzone is fucking weird, okay?
>invasions are immoral (directed at >>2912713)>You're confusing me with someone else>Having morals is main character syndromeI don’t even know what to do with that, so let’s move on.
>it was FARCanon asking me what would change my mind on Russia which prompted that discussionAnd you’ve given him the answer he no doubt wanted, which is “nothing”.
>>2913178Yes we’re all well aware of your definition that you use in polite company (and somehow never applies to westerners, who are just “entrepreneurs” or “philanthropists”)
I’m just referring to what the slur means in practice
>Never argued there is no discussion to be had
If you refute all documented evidence out of hand with your own unverifiable anecdotes, then you’re saying that from your perspective there is no discussion. You just know better than literally everyone else.
>>2913184defending oligarchy is pretty wild. you took the 'politically incorrect' part to heart a bit too literally
>>2913180Therefore we National Socialists have purposely drawn a line through the line of conduct followed by pre-War Germany in foreign policy. We put an end to the perpetual Germanic march towards the South and West of Europe and turn our eyes towards the lands of the East. We finally put a stop to the colonial and trade policy of pre-War times and pass over to the territorial policy of the future.
But when we speak of new territory in Europe to-day we must principally think of Russia and the border States subject to her.
Destiny itself seems to wish to point out the way for us here. In delivering Russia over to Bolshevism, Fate robbed the Russian people of that intellectual class which had once created the Russian State and were the guarantee of its existence. For the Russian State was not organized by the constructive political talent of the Slav element in Russia, but was much more a marvellous exemplification of the capacity for State-building possessed by the Germanic element in a race of inferior worth. Thus were many powerful Empires created all over the earth. More often than once inferior races with Germanic organizers and rulers as their leaders became formidable States and continued to exist as long as the racial nucleus remained which had originally created each respective State. For centuries Russia owed the source of its livelihood as a State to the Germanic nucleus of its governing class. But this nucleus is now almost wholly broken up and abolished. The Jew has taken its place. Just as it is impossible for the Russian to shake off the Jewish yoke by exerting his own powers, so, too, it is impossible for the Jew to keep this formidable State in existence for any long period of time. He himself is by no means an organizing element, but rather a ferment of decomposition. This colossal Empire in the East is ripe for dissolution. And the end of the Jewish domination in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a State. We are chosen by Destiny to be the witnesses of a catastrophe which will afford the strongest confirmation of the nationalist theory of race.
Source: Mein Kampf, Chapter 14
https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601h.html#ch2-14 >>2913197That's some manifest destiny tier shit here. Is there
anything Adolf didn't steal from Uncle Sam?
>>2913197fun fact, in Hitlers second book he considered America more of a long term threat than the USSR
>In contrast to Mein Kampf, in Zweites Buch Hitler added a fourth stage to the Stufenplan. He insinuated that in the far future a struggle for world domination might take place between the United States and a European alliance comprising a new association of nations, consisting of individual states with high national value. Zweites Buch also offers a different perspective on the U.S. than that outlined in Mein Kampf. In Mein Kampf Hitler declared that Germany's most dangerous opponent on the international scene was the Soviet Union; in Zweites Buch, Hitler declared that, for immediate purposes, the Soviet Union was still the most dangerous opponent, but that, in the long term, the most dangerous potential opponent was the United States >>2913199He stole using Zyklon B to gas untermench from them as well
'Bath Riots'
>>2913197not a single mention of genocide btw. hitler's theorizing that communism will lead russia to selfdestruction and then germans swoop in.
>>2913197Almost word for word the same kind of rhetoric coming from the Hoholistan defenders in this thread, yet they are repeatedly protected by the mods…
>>2913207>not a single mention of genocide btw. hitler's theorizing that communism will lead russia to selfdestruction and then germans swoop in.Its implicit. You don't colonize a nation for your own race without genociding the natives. Its also what actually happened when the Nazis killed 30 million people on the Eastern front.
Remember same people that support Ukraine also deny warcrimes and genocide committed by Israel in Gaza, support US bombing Iran or at least say something along the lines of
> both sides you know Iran bad cause THEOCRACY therefore killing children is fine
And complains about Islam and migrants in Europe.
Literally if you want to know whether the person is a crypto rightoid ask him about his stance on Israel or migrants in the EU or the UK.
I’m not saying that there are no people that support both Ukraine and Palestine/Iran and are fine with migrants but such people are misguided for the most part and probably don’t pay attention to politics much.
>>2913221>Literally if you want to know whether the person is a crypto rightoid ask him about his stance on Israel or migrants in the EU or the UK.and then they tell yuo they both need to go back, what next?
or - god forbid - mention that hamas isn't palestine but an islamist organization that benefits from the suffering of plaestinan people and was created and curated by idf for the very same purpose russians curate islamism in chechnya
and in the end is served for the scapegoat for jewish warcrimes in gaza strip which very creation is by definition a crime against humanity
it's all too nuanced for a yes/no test
unless of course you subscribe to some sort of campism
>>2913262Gramps off his meds once again…
>>2913156>What are you on about? I said Russian's elite should be removed, clearly they don't care to send young men to die in a stupid war.I agree with you. I think Putin and others in his administration might have some laudable qualities, but they're anti communist and anti prole and any anti imperialist actions they take are because of the positions they've been forced to take, rather than motivated by any kind of humanist or altruist virtues.
But that does bring up who is to do the removing and the replacing. Nato wants to remove Putin et al also, but where I want Putin gone to allow for the reemergence of the Soviet people, Nato wants them gone to repeat the 90s. And we've seen what happens when Nato succeeds. The Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc.
And we know already what is in store for Russia if they were to get their way, because we've seen it in Ukraine. The intent for Russia is Ukraine writ large. It would be transformed into a state that's compliant to western looting and hostile to its own population, to facilitate that looting, but also the federation's dissolution as a coherent political entity, and ultimately to isolate China from essential resources and possibly even weaponize the resulting mess against them.
So we have the same desire resulting in two different outcomes. I want the Russian people to overthrow their bourgeoisie in order to seize control of their country for themselves. Nato wants to overthrow the Russian bourgeoisie also in order to subjugate and slaughter the Russian people.
I think any honest appraisal of the situation results in the bottom line that while Putin and the Russian state aren't good or desirable per se, they are currently in the position where their resistance to Nato is currently aligned with the best interests of the Russian people. This doesn't require liking Putin etc or "supporting" Russia, whatever that means, but it does require acknowledging that between Nato on the one side and Putin on the other, if you do care about the Russian people then a Nato defeat is the preferable outcome, even if that means that the Russian bourgeoisie remain in control because of it.
Yeah, I do wish the Russian people would overthrow Putin and reinstate communism, but in the absence of the conditions for that or efforts to build it just wishing for it to happen somehow is just magical thinking.
>>2913262Trump is literally spewing fake news and misinfo. The goal is to wait till Russia hits something (and it will) and then say shit like
>LOOOK ITS NOT MY PROBLEM I THOUGHT WE HAD AN AGREEMENT OR SMTHIt's basically to shift the blame from himself (he fucked up in the middle east) and blame russia instead or ukraine or whatever lol
Nobody believes it tho
>>2913262special cuck operation going according to plan I see
>>2913277Good post.
>>2913279Don't you ever get full from constantly eating bullshit?
>>2913277>they're anti communist and anti prole and any anti imperialist actions they take are because of the positions they've been forced to take, rather than motivated by any kind of humanist or altruist virtues. Almost every national leadership in the world is anti-communist to one extent or another. It's the way it is in the post-1991 world. A lot will have to change before that changes. Palestinian leadership is anti-communist and so is Iran, but as you say, that doesn't amount to a reason to support their defeat in the current circumstances, where another (or even more) anti-communist regime will just take their place.
Also, Marxism interprets the movement of history toward socialism as being a result of "the positions [people are] forced to take" by the material conditions they find themselves in, not as a result of individuals having pure motives or embracing "humanist and altruist values".
If people are doing something anti-imperialist because the conditions around them forced them to do it, rather than because they're internally pure, that's just the way it's supposed to work, so just take the W.
>>2913294>Good post.Thanks
>>2913303>If people are doing something anti-imperialist because the conditions around them forced them to do it, rather than because they're internally pure, that's just the way it's supposed to work, so just take the W.I agree, sure.
Good morning, Ukraine collapse status?
>>2913277>I think any honest appraisal of the situation results in the bottom line that while Putin and the Russian state aren't good or desirable per se, they are currently in the position where their resistance to Nato is currently aligned with the best interests of the Russian people. Can't take this argument seriously when they're pissing away 100s of billions of $ on a war and hundreds of billions of additional losses from blown up treats and infrastructure.
To put things into perspective; the worst year for Russian capital flows was a negative of ~$150 billion in 2014. And at this rate the cost of the war is gonna exceed capital outflows during the preceding two decades within a few years.
https://ru.themoscowtimes.com/2026/09/14/ottok-kapitala-iz-rossii-za-chetvert-veka-pravleniya-putina-previsil-100-vvp-a206060>>2913181>boasting about getting laid in a warzone is fucking weird, okay? Never did. Go back to the archived threads, and you'll see the only reason it was brought up because some argued I couldn't possibly know what Ukrainians were thinking. But obviously mentioning SÉXO on an IB brings out very reasonable responses.
>2913186Documented evidence against reactionary bullshit in Russia? Or documented evidence for "everyone or most people in Ukraine are nazis" which doesn't correspond with what I saw in person?
>>2913221>Remember same people that support Ukraine also deny warcrimes and genocide committed by Israel in GazaGo outside
>>2913421Fuck off sex tourist
>>2913421>Documented evidence against reactionary bullshit in Russia? Or documented evidence for "everyone or most people in Ukraine are nazis" which doesn't correspond with what I saw in person?>nazism is when there is a nazi flag around every cornerbro would have been oblivious during nazi germany
>>2913421>it was brought up because some argued I couldn't possibly know what Ukrainians were thinking. But obviously mentioning SÉXOThat really doesn’t follow at all. Unless you’re not just a sex tourist but also a pick up artist where to gain sex you have to get into your target’s mind.
Like you make a big deal of how “worldly” you are, but you really do sound like a dork. Frankly, I think you’re making it all up and you lack the social skills to know how to lie properly.
>Or documented evidence for "everyone or most people in Ukraine are nazis" which doesn't correspond with what I saw in person? It's not like they've been hiding it
https://mronline.org/2022/08/31/from-nurseries-to-nazis/ >>2913422>>2913427>You're a liar, nafoid, sex tourist, pedophile!Or maybe someone here's upset somebody's having sex and traveling places and you're not? Can't explain it otherwise considering you keep bringing it up.
>That really doesn't follow at allIt's in the archived threads. You can look it up.
>>2913428And yet except for one azovite, I didn't find any Nazis in Lviv. Reminds me of how some nafoids argue Russians are genocidal imperialist orcs, but all the Russians I've personally met are ordinary people and not hellbent on wiping out Ukraine.
>>2913426Okay so where is the equivalent of the Hitler Youth (which every kid was forced to join) here, the Nuremberg Laws, concentration camps, and so on? We're not talking about the (occasional) state backed russophobia here. But outright neonazism.
It's difficult to take seriously because it's so damn hyperbolic and hysterical. Yes there are nazis in Ukraine, no Ukraine is not a nazi state.
>>2913429It keeps getting brought up because your position is that your unverifiable anecdotes overrule real evidence, and that’s a position you present most days. That your anecdotes revolve around buggering someone in Lvov, is what makes that position go from stupid to just weird.
>It's in the archived threads. You can look it up.Again, as usual, you’re avoiding the point
>You don’t know what Ukrainians actually thinkis not countered by
>but I fucked a handful of them on my brief holiday to Lvovthat’s why you’ve humiliated yourself ITT and are called a sex tourist, it’s just a really bizarre non-sequitur to present, actually Chris-Chan tier.
>And yet except for one azovite
That was your hookup, right?
>>2913262He's trying to make it look like this price hike of fuel is not in any way Amerikkka's fault
>>2913429Ukronazis are anti-statist, anarcho-nationalist kind of nonsense. They've degenerated into corrupt cliques of military bandit men who extort and press gang civilians. As for direct nazism, Ukrainian Nazis are well-known for deanonimizing people through state apparatus to have talks with them, that's how they disappear opposition and make anti-TCK people "apologize" on video. They had a press prison in Mariupol where they tortured separatists. They literally ban their majority home language in schools. They painted gypsies' faces green and tied them to lampposts.
>>2913429For details, "Videos from Mariupol" on youtube.
>>2913440Why do they keep dying?
>>2913441tbf this was from 2 years ago
>>2913442Oh yeah, just saw the 1h ago timestamp and assumed it was today.
>>2913421uygha nobody’s saying everyone in Ukraine is a nazi. However their government is far right, people don’t do anything about said far right government for over a decade.
If someone says he’s tolerant or whatever the fuck but then proceeds to vote for literal fascists or support language laws or say shit like
>they gotta go back where they belong it’s total bullshit my man.
I don’t see Ukrainians protesting against the war. I don't see a single left wing party in Ukraine’s parliament.
So either it’s a totalitarian far right state where people are being suppressed hard by the government or it’s a totalitarian far right state where people are complicit.
>>2913449>where champagne retard looks like the most reasonable person in this threadTo be fair the bar has gotten pretty low ITT. I suspect most cucktin posters simply got bored of the NAFO hype never paying off and causing Putin to commit suicide live on TV, so we’re down to a couple of anons who are genuinely pro-Ukraine at a point where essentially none of the “moral” aspects of supporting Ukraine still applies.
>>2913431Might surprise you but I did things other than fuck people in Ukraine. If my experiences (visting Ukraine) do not line up with the narrative (Ukraine is full of Nazis), I discard the narrative.
>you've been humiliated! Sex tourist! You're like Chris-Chan!The fuck is this? Kiwifarms? Xitter? YT debatebro's comment section? Eceleb reddit?
>>2913444And give this board up to chuds who think getting laid means you're a sexpat? Nah
>>2913449Nuremberg laws were published openly, this also isn't the 1930s where literal death camps can be hidden easily. You wanna condemn the Ukrainian for being reactionary? Fine. But you don't have to be a hysteric pretending Ukraine today is the same as the Nazi regime.
>inb4 language lawsVery common in much of the world (and no I don't like that stuff either), so unless you wanna claim places like Iran, China, Russia, much of Europe in general and parts of America are also nazi regimes genociding minorities then no; mandating use of a particular language is not "nazist".
>>2913457See
>>2912887 >>2913421>Or documented evidence for "everyone or most people in Ukraine are nazis" which doesn't correspond with what I saw in person? The issue has never been that most Ukrainians are Nazis, but that Ukrainian Nazis hold disproportionate power due to their massive overrepresentation in the army and security apparatus.
>>2913495>unless you wanna claim places like Iran, China, Russia, much of Europe in general and parts of America are also nazi regimes genociding minorities then no; mandating use of a particular language is not "nazist"you disingenuous piece of shit. nowhere else are you fined for speaking a foreign language which also happens to be your native language
https://english.nv.ua/nation/kyiv-teachers-fined-for-using-russian-in-class-50620592.htmlhttps://www.kyivpost.com/post/78078https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c33kzvgn8pyo >>2913441because NAFOids are either glowies or unhealthy boomers
>>2913498I'll give some examples; Guangdong broadcast language laws which were passed over 10 years ago restricting the use of Cantonese. Mandarin only education is also increasingly common in many regions.
In Turkey, the constitution specifies Turkish as the sole legal language of instruction. And use of Kurdish for this purpose is illegal.
In Iran Persian is the only legal language of instruction. France has similar laws. In Russia since 2018 ethnic republics can no longer mandate that learn minority languages.
Are these nazi states? No.
>>2913429>Reminds me of how some nafoids argue Russians are genocidal imperialist orcs, but all the Russians I've personally met are ordinary people and not hellbent on wiping out Ukraine.silence is complience
>>2913457>>they gotta go back where they belong >it’s total bullshit my man. what's wrong about that? why don't you want to go back to where you belong?
why don't you want others to go back to where they belong?
>>2913514>>2913512>>2913515moralfaggot remembered he could shit up this thread again
>>2913495>Might surprise you but I did things other than fuck people in Ukraine.No I recall you also were on the Lvov nightclub circuit. But I believe that was an anecdote intended to prove Ukraine is not losing because people can still dance in the dark.
>think getting laid means you're a sexpat?You’ve still not explained how buss’ing in some banderite bussy proves you know what Ukrainians actually think. It’s just been put out there like you somehow downloaded the collective consciousness of millions by casually shagging a handful of them.
>>2913518i genuinely need an explanation how come everyone all of the sudden has a right to live in europe
>There are people in this thread who are seriously trying to argue that Ukraine is carrying out Generalplan Ost against Russians
lmfao this is why no one takes ziggers seriously
>>2913497And this is the reason why Spurdo is just Thrillpill’s concern trolling fursona, it’s the same guy both making the case that no one is in Ukraine is ackshually Nazi, because if everyone in Ukraine was ackshually Nazi then why aren’t they getting nuked?
>>2913522>Drive the Moskal orcs out of “our” borders drawn by a political entity we hate and do not recognise the authority ofIt’s even farcical the second time around.
>>2913525generalplan ost just isn't the same as freeing your country from invaders
>>2913529Both involve the arbitrary drawing of lines on a map and then cleansing the population contained within as they will very obviously get in the way of claiming sovereignty over your new territories.
You have to ask what is even the practical difference between Nazi Germany drawing up their new borders and Ukraine inheriting their borders from the USSR’s internal borders, but disavowing the USSR’s legitimacy to define Ukraine’s borders thereby making their current borders no less arbitrary than those of the projected Ostland.
>>2913536ironically we're talking about a people that invaded a foreign country, drew new imaginary lines and started their own cleansing campaign
the hoops you're ready to jump to justify anything and everything russian is truly amazing
>>2913543By all means explain why the Ukrainian borders are theirs if they don’t recognise the authority of the USSR to have defined their borders and their sovereignty over the territory within those borders depended on the erasure of the Russian nationality?
>>2913544could they by any chance have border treaties with neighbouting countries just like everyone else does?
>>2913547Apparently not with the one that counts, coincidentally the successor state to the USSR.
>>2913550but they do it's just in orcs are on their unending (800 years already and still counting) jihad trying to conquer eastern europe
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) Also, lib please
>Why are you entitled to possess ownership over another human being?
<Why this Bill of Sale of course!
>>2913511What is the point? Did I claim this doesn't happen? I'm saying this is common in other places, isn't unique to Ukraine and doesn't make Ukraine a nazi state.
>nowhere else are you fined for speaking a foreign language which also happens to be your native languageI gave examples of other places where this
does happen.
>>2913544>By all means explain why the Ukrainian borders are theirs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum>Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders >Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.Russia didn't even make it 30 years before violating both provisions.
>>2913559>Russia didn't even make it 30 years before violating both provisions.who could have seen that coming?
>>2913559The difference is that “Ukraine’s” “borders” were always Russian territory whereas Hoholistan was conjured into existence from administrative divisions in the USSR made by Lenin and only codified with Khrushchev’s coup, himself a proud Banderite
>>2913561>always Russian territoryit wasn't
russians first officially laid claim to ukraine in 1547 and captured it as a result of khmelnytsky's uprising 1648-1657
one has to be intellectually russian to even believe any of that >since always russian nonsense
>>2913566Russians famously just spawned into existence in the 16th century, unlike the Aryan Ukrainians who were created a million years ago by Woden right?
>>291356813th in volga basin, some 800 odd kms northeast from dniepr
>>2913568They spawned out of Mongol rape and took on the violent characteristics of their genetic predecessors
(No cap kinda racist) >>2913559>The Budapest Memorandum is not a treaty, and it does not confer any new legal obligations for signatory states. It was written in a way to avoid an impression of legal obligation.Why do people keep raising this as though it’s both a legally enforceable treaty, and one that ought to stand when the US and Britain’s role in the memorandum to provide security “assurances” is superseded by NATO in 2008 declaring that Ukraine will be a member of that treaty.
It’s not a treaty and even if it was, it’s voided by virtue of Ukraine pursuing NATO membership which, as Brussels loves to remind the world, doesn’t require Russia’s input as a signatory.
And Russia’s actions against Ukraine are in self-defence, it’s undeniable that Nuland showing up in Kiev with cookies and being caught on a call selecting Ukraine’s leadership positions breaches
>Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders
and even if Nuland didn’t show up, if a coup installs leadership that is hostile towards Russia, then Russia doesn’t have to recognise them as the legitimate government that succeeds the one for whom the Budapest Memorandum was signed with.
It’s basically the same point I believe UkSSRanon once made in claiming that any promises made to the Soviet leadership about not expanding NATO were nullified by the replacement of said leadership. They “committed suicide” which means NATO didn’t need to honour squat with their replacements.
>>2913557>I gave examples of other places where this does happen.show us
>>2913594>And Russia’s actions against Ukraine are in self-defenceyeah, russia's actions against anyone are always in self defense
russia, the (second) most moral state in the world
>>2913572rope yourself you excuse of an creature
>>2913609hey jarvis, what does zelenskkky think of Israel?
>>2913613hey siri how many israelis speak russian at home?
FSB paid shill are too numerous in this thread, Jesus Christ.
>>2913617>>2913619also inb4 the moralfags post their favorite cucktin article thats more than 20 years or his opinion of the october attacks as if that would make Zelenskkky seem less hypocritical. Btw, ukrops cant even deny it so they say "well but my boi zelenskkky needs weapons" aka not even zelenskkky himself believes the propaganda about "war crimes" or "human rights violation", its more out of moral convenience than anything else
>>2913620>FSB paid shillnope, just someone who lives in yurops garden and noticed some funny patterns emerge when I looked towards the past, its called critical thinking
>>2913609Why do Russia and her people deserve to be eradicated?
>>2913676they don't, they deserve to be pushed back to volga basin where they belong while all the subjected nations deserve to be free to pursue their own policy
as an alternative please explain why do people of eastern europe deserve to be eradicated and mongrelized into russian ethnos
preferably without appealing to the original sin of >muh nazis
>>2913687>they don't, they deserve to be pushed back to volga basin where they belong while all the subjected nations deserve to be free to pursue their own policyThe main thing preventing countries from following their own policies is Western imperialism. If Ukraine wins this war it will be an American slave state forever. It won't be "free to decide its own policy."
>as an alternative please explain why do people of eastern europe deserve to be eradicated and mongrelized into russian ethnos Better Russia than NATO
>>2913685When the USSR fell italy had the 4th largest global GDP lmao. Both are a shadow of their former selves
>>2913720>Better Russia than NATOfor whom?
>>2913725Everyone. The difference between Russia and NATO is that Russia isn't a superpower. Its economy is less than Italy. It doesn't actually have the means to project power and make it so people aren't "free to decide their own policy." It can barely take the Ukraine (only going for parts like the Donbass). On the other hand, NATO suppresses the sovereignty of countless nations with its superpower imperialism.
>>2913726pick an indicator, any indicator. we'll compare russia-alligned east european state of your chosing to nato-alligned east euro state of your chosing. let's see how much better russia is.
>>2913672Not allowed, had to be said in the thread
>>2913730I don't like Russia but I don't support NATO either and I like NATO even less (because its bigger). What is so hard to understand?
>>2913733>What is so hard to understand?i just don't get how's your personal dislike of nato justify russian invasions on europe
>>2913732last thread another champion of russia claimed chechnya wars were in selfdefence, good enough?
>>2913733“Neither Washington nor Moscow” wasn’t clever 100 years ago when Trotskyites deployed it to defend collaborating with Nazi Germany for the genocide of Russians, it’s even lamer when you attempt it now
>>2913738>russia's actions against anyone are always in self defenseYou know the rules, everything must be literal direct quotes.
Nato nations control the global economy that Russia isn't allowed to participate in and nafoids cant help but whine about putler being a big bully.. lol
>>2913744that's terrible! how did that come to happen?
>>2913748Western imperialism. The Western imperialist countries (Britain, France, Spain, etc) colonised the entire world (the Americas, Australia, Africa, etc) in a global drive for global domination. They moved across the Atlantic to establish colonies on the other side of it which became the imperialist terrorist fascist oppressor organization NATO
>>2913748>how did that come to happen?It all began in 1917 you see…
>>2913748Oh I see your angle, Russians deserve their genocide because Groby and his cronies illegally dissolved the USSR, therefor NATO good
>>2913519>You’ve still not explained how buss’ing in some banderite bussy proves you know what Ukrainians actually think. Enough gay sex allows one to perform the Hind Meld. By creating a strong enough connection to the prostate, shitposting sex tourists are able to perform hind quarters to mind quarters communication.
>>2913521Everyone whose home country has a cultural artifact in the British museum has a right to live in Europe.
>>2913749Ruzzia was also doing that before getting cock blocked by the japs and put down by the bolcheviks thoughbeit. Just malding they can't joint the garden club after all their efforts to destroy socialism and ressucitate their stupid ass settler colonial empire, cuckiest shit tbh
>>2913757you're going to have to clue me in on what's gorby got to do with sanctions on russia
>>2913737Every NATO country deserves to be invaded. In the same manner NATO conducts its own invasions. Every NATO aspirant country is to be treated like a NATO country.
>>2913897>Or is El Nino going to fuck that up too?You bet!
>>2913722Italian GDP is as fake as Japanese or American one. PPP is just a modifier on GDP, it doesn't represent the real situation either.
>>2913950As they say in Russia, can you put GDP on your bread?
>>2913554>Napoleon invades Russia>Nazi Germany invades Russia>Western countries arm Ukraine to invade Russia<retards on the internet: "Russia has been trying to conquer Europe for the last 800 years!!!"kys
>>2913730Compare:
>state ownership of industry>amount of machinery produced per yearCountries:
>Belarus>Estonia >>2913554>orcs>800 yearsHang yourself you wilfuly ignorant lout
>>2913955Why is Russia so retarded? Instead of letting them overextend like previous times, instead of having the moral and strategic advantage of being on the defensive, they decided to fuck it all up. Is Putin fucked up in the heda?
>Cucktin refuses to Kessler Syndrome spaceMeanwhile the Americans:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ck790xg41ygro<The US has confirmed it deployed a space weapon in Earth's orbit, the first time it has acknowledged such offensive capabilities.<US Secretary of the Air Force Troy Meink said the "on orbit" weapon was necessary to safeguard US forces against hostile enemy action.I FUCKING TOLD YOU ALL SPACE IS NATO'S ADVANTAGE YOU HAVE TO BLIND, DESTROY, AND DISABLE ALL THEIR ORBITAL PLATFORMS YOU RETARDED FUCKING CUCKS.
Of course this news also released immediately after Kushner and friends dropped by the Kremlin for a quick blowjob from Cucktin and Kirill. Absolutely pure cuckholdry I want to vomit. Russians are fucking retarded I would have started shooting down Musk's Starlink network from day 1 if I had been in charge of this war.
>>2913804friendly reminder
>>2913804Fully agree. Mass Katyn on NATO-EU-CANZUCK-Japan-SouthKorea.
>>2914025My anarchist cousin, who devoted all his time to attack communists, is now full mask off.
He even denounces people who oppose the Russian invasion but recognise that 2014 was a western coup as "pro-russian propaganda".
Every passing day, I understand more and more Lenin's and (even moreso) Stalin's intransigeance vis à vis Anarchists and other left-deviationists.
>>2914005yup, also notice how the official kremlin sources never shit on trump while gasping that they might have been *again* deceived by *some* americans in anchorage, god i hate those fucking self serving cucks. btw some ground in lyman has been lost but commanders lied to cucktin anyway, its on pro zigger telegram but they wont even focus on it that much anyway because any critical analysis has been replaced by "hoooope" and feel good points while at the same time basically admitting that this conflict has become a stalemate. i wish mustache man would just resurrect himself and rape everyone involved
>>2914026>Fully agree. Mass Katyn on NATO-EU-CANZUCK-Japan-SouthKoreabased
>>2914024how does it feel knowing cucktin would release this dude back to the west as a gesture of goodwill if they ever caught him fighting in Ukraine?
>>2914032Feels like shit tbh. How the Georgian is missed…
>>2914032>caught him fighting in UkraineMy dude, the smolbean-uwu variant of NAFOids never fight. They are busy living their Authentic E-Self(tm) while the sons of ukroproles (among the poorest in evropo) die in thousands.
>>2914030>i wish mustache man would just resurrect himself and rape everyone involvedNow when you say “moustache man”…
>>2914025Inside you there are two reactionaries : one think Algeria is France, the other thinks France is Algeria
>>2912460Holy shit that made me laugh. Please take theis you.
>>2914068There is so many funny posters in this thread. Thank you.
>>2914074That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, it's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not Putin's fault.
And if it was, he'll fix it.
And if he doesn't, it doesn't matter anyways.
>>2914074Imagine how bad the real situation is if Russian propaganda maps look like this.
>>2914076live laugh lyman
Tactical victories amount to nothing when one loses strategically
our methodical march forward and their tactical victories that amount to nothing
Imagine caring about this nophono war
>Apparently advancing big time
>Asking for energy ceasefire
What did he mean by this?
>>2914152if i were a betting man i'd say ukrainians snuck through holes in defense, posted a couple flags and announced advances to shake up turboziggers before election
>>2914160Nah I suspect that Liman is genuine, simply because it’s the last town before Slavyansk which is the northern end of the Kramatorsk agglomeration. Since the Russians are already in the southern end, I’ve no doubt Ukraine will have pulled all the stops out to slow or prevent Russia’s advance into Slavyansk, which is bigger than Liman and Konstantinovka and therefore would need more troops than Liman to keep up a concentrated defence.
And Slavyansk is a lot closer to Kramatorsk than Konstantinovka is, so it’s important to avoid its potential capture for as long as possible.
>>2914120So Russia already lost then.
>>2914152I suspect there is no such thing, it's just Trump lying to try to keep oil prices from going up without having to admit the war he caused has anything to do with it.
>>2914170Trump is indeed blaming his failure to secure diesel prices on Zelensky, but Z-dog is asking for an energy ceasefire with the finesse expected; threats of plunging Russia into darkness if they don’t agree as though that wasn’t already the plan.
>>2914120Last time I pointed out that Ukraine took back Lyman someone said this is a tactically victory but it doesn't matter if they don't manage to push further
Now Ukraine did actually push further
>>2914195Don't worry about it trust the plan. Kiev in two more weeks. Holhols are dying by the millions just look at the dead soldier exchange rates. Russia is winning by like 103988499993 kills per death.
>>2914169>So Russia already lost then.And why is that?
>>2914197>just look at the dead soldier exchange ratesAre you implying this is irrelevent info? Why?
>>2914262Because if Russia really had a 20-1 kill ratio this war would have already ended 4 years ago dumbass. No one with a functioning brain believes that crap only retarded ziggers.
>>2914270Well AFU admits that these exchanges are legit bro, are you implying that AFU collects fake bodies?
>>2914262It’s called Aryan statistics you Moskal ORK!!!!
>>2914280Nah my point is that he's shitting out a strawman about 300 gorrillion dead AFU soldiers and attempts do attack the fact that the body exchange rates are definetely not in favor of the AFU.
Like, this is a fact that cannot be ignored at all because it does show us what really is going on.
Cause if you think about it. If the exchange rates show that AFU loses more troops it means that either there is no stalemate cause AFU can't collect the bodies and are forced to retreat or that they pay a lot in terms of lost soldiers to keep this a stalemate.
Either way it doesn't look good for ukraine.
And you can't say that these stats are fake cause AFU admits that the bodies are real.
>>2914294i don't get the logic of that one
>>2914302And it will remain a mystery because I sure as hell won't be giving my mail to that site.
>>2914294>Almost getting hit by a drone in Ukraine>made me think Ukraine is going to winSo 'Ukraine is going to win' is not a likely prognostication of things to come, but more like a slogan, creed or a warcry?
>>2914270Actually I’d say it’s something like 20-1
because the conflict has gone on for nearly 5 years at this point. Ukraine has general mobilisation and clearly the will to expend their men in counteroffensyivs, yet they’ve failed to expel Russian volunteers from Donbass as well as Zaporozhye and Kherson oblasts.
On the contrary, it’s NAFOids who have to believe in fantasies like mass conscription in Russia that has mobilised millions but somehow kept it entirely secret from Russian society, to explain why Ukrainian attacks aren’t outnumbering Russian defenders 20-1.
>>2914341>Ukraine must be losing 20:1 because otherwise they'd outnumber Russia 20:1>Russia, which had more than 4x Ukraine's population in 2022I have yet to find a single sentient Zigger shill
>>2914347Still wainting on you to explain the exchange rates.
>>2914074What the fuck is a "neuro-soldier"
>>2914195The progress they've made made in and around lyman has come at the expense of 6+ months of constant fighting there while losing ground virtually across the entire rest of the front. Unless the droid control ship they need to destroy to shut down the rest of the Russian army is hidden somewhere just outside Lyman it makes very little difference to the overall trajectory of the war.
>>2914386They think that conservatives are gonna lose in the US and after that they will get Patriot missiles so their goal is to hold on to Lyman as much as possible.
I mean in the long run nothing is going to help Ukraine win at this point but really it’s the only option left tbh because zelensky can’t lose he’ll get murdered if he does.
>>2914270>Because if Russia really had a 20-1 kill ratiowhat lol? body exchange ratios do favor russia but the high kd ratios claims come from ukrops, most pro ziggers on telegram say its roughly 1-1
>>2914392I almost hope they get their wish, for all the good it'll do them. I don't see how wasting a few more patriots is going to help at all. It seems like the sort of middle management "we're doing something about the problem" type of thing.
>>2914398lavrov can talk all he wants about how they dont want to "return to the 90s" in terms of the relationship with yurop but besides drinking the kool-aid on the nationalist rhetoric in the rightwing parties their positions seems a little hypocritical considering how they interact with Trump and the US
>>2914294>>2914302without reading it I bet the logic is something along the lines of "russia is so hecking desperate that they have to resort to drone striking civilians. if putler is this desperate it means ukraine is winning. slava ukraine"
>>2914469it cuts just before he jumps on a landmine isn't it?
Possible happening?
EXCLUSIVE: Russia builds vast new missile shield, drawing comparisons to Reagan's “Star Wars”
>MOSCOW — September 16, 2026 — Russia is assembling an ambitious strategic missile-defense network that combines its existing A-235 Nudol, S-500 Prometey, early-warning radars and military satellites into a new nationwide architecture, according to Russian defense documents and people familiar with the program.
>The project, internally referred to as “Zashchita”, is not officially described by Moscow as a Russian equivalent of the U.S. Strategic Defense Initiative. But its reported scope has prompted comparisons with Ronald Reagan's 1983 “Star Wars” program.
>At its center is the A-235 system, designed to succeed the Soviet-era A-135 missile-defense network protecting Moscow. Russia has also been developing the S-500, intended to provide another layer against ballistic and aerodynamic targets. Analysts have previously described the combination as potentially significant for Russia's strategic defenses.
>The most controversial component is the system's space architecture. Russia already operates a ballistic-missile early-warning network incorporating satellites and ground-based radars, while the Nudol system has demonstrated an anti-satellite capability.
>That announcement has intensified fears that Washington and Moscow are entering a new phase of the space arms race.
>>2914529Pretty sure that's propaganda made by Ukrainian for domestic Ukrainian audiences and NAFOids, not something NCD did. US WW2 era propaganda posters depict the Japanese in a similar manner.
>>2914639The guy that made it posted it in ncd.
>>2914417im not clicking that lmao. i feel like if i go there i will loose autism score points
>>2914417Lmao second “best” post is still about that Bradley suicide rushing a T-90, the conflict has gotten grim enough for Ukraine that NAFOids already experience nostalgia for better times.
>>2914709the big arrows period has come back…
>>2914709>within a few days right now.I believe the claim is that this has been taking place over months but unreported because of le OPSEC concerns. In fact they claim it’s called Operation Vivaldi as a reference to how it’s taken place over multiple seasons.
Although let’s face it, it’s unreported for those months because retards will jump to conclusions exactly like this and assume it all happened the same day they’ve heard about it.
>>2914709Still zero evidence from either side.
>>2914731That's pretty perplexing. You'd think if Ukraine was rolling back two years worth of Russian gains they'd be crowing about it relentlessly, especially on the eve of their parliamentary elections.
>>2914709two more weeks!!!!!
>>2915030Remember Krynki? That was the same level of Ukraine reconquering territory over months, undoing years of Russian conquests, lmao. Then the narrative evaporated, and mappers stopped painting Ukrainian copium coumteroffensyivs there
I've found myself liking Vladimir Pastukhov's writings. He's in Russian dissident circles. He's also got an old-fashioned Soviet look which is cool. He's an admirer of Bukharin. Here's his big picture view. If you give a fuck or are triggered in some kind of way (and I hope you are) begin arguing in replies.
>A post in three parts. Part 1.
>Some slow, non-emotional conclusions, this time without "psychologisms," based on the visit of American negotiators to Moscow and Kyiv:
>1. Without a change in the strategic position of one of the parties, either at the front or in the rear, an end to the war (fire) before the spring-summer of 2027 seems unlikely.
>2. In both societies, there is a clear public demand for "peace on one's own terms," that is, for the continuation of the war until the other side partially capitulates on issues that are symbolic for the other side: for Russia, this is a voluntary concession of the unconquered part of Donbas, for Ukraine, a ceasefire along the line of confrontation, unencumbered by any obligations on its part.
>3. This public demand is, to a large extent, a projection of the state's influence on society; that is, in essence, both the Kremlin and Bankova receive a feedback signal from society—an echo of the impulse they themselves direct to society using the propaganda tools at their disposal. Under these conditions, public opinion in its purest form simply does not exist, and therefore it is impossible to measure.
>4. However, power in both Russia and Ukraine does not exist in a vacuum. It relies on the support of a highly active and mobile pro-war minority, which supports the war effort to a victorious end. This minority, known as the "military class," essentially imposes its will on society as a whole through power. Thus, a change in society's position is ultimately possible only if this "military class" suffers defeat on the battlefield or if it experiences an internal schism under the immediate threat of such defeat.
>5. For reasons that are impossible to list in such a short article, the Ukrainian "military class" is much more cohesive, organized, and goal-oriented, and therefore less prone to dissent. However, its connection to the government and its ability to effectively interact with it leaves much to be desired.
>6. The Russian "military class" is loose, heterogeneous, and generally not very motivated. It is constantly on the verge of a split, but its weakness is easily compensated for by its complete integration into the system of totalitarian power, which compensates for all its internal doubts with fear of repression.
>7. In such a situation, the positions of external forces, on which both Russia and Ukraine are equally dependent, acquire decisive significance, since they are not states capable of continuing the war for a long time using their own resources.
>8. China is the main sponsor of the war on the Russian side. Although it formally advocates a peaceful settlement, it is in fact voting with its feet for a low-intensity continuation of the conflict by purchasing Russian raw materials and, in exchange, supplying everything necessary for weapons production. China is interested in maintaining moderate, uncontrollable tensions in Europe, since this weakens its competitor. However, it will carefully monitor that these tensions do not develop into a global crisis that would ricochet back onto China itself.
>9. Europe is symmetrically interested in a conflict that is controlled and limited to the Ukrainian theater of operations, since this weakens Russia's ability to directly intervene in European affairs and threaten it with a more serious invasion. Europe, however, has no real interest in the conflict escalating into a nuclear phase or in a direct clash with NATO, since the latter has not yet had time to prepare for such a clash. Europe is acting as a force actively encouraging the Ukrainian "military class" to continue the war at any cost.
>10. Deep disagreements have emerged between Europe and the United States on the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, which are not simply economic, political, or geopolitical, but purely ideological in nature. The United States is not simply interested in ending the war between Russia and Ukraine, based on its own geopolitical considerations (weakening Russia automatically strengthens China, which is the main strategic adversary of the United States at this historical juncture), but wants to end this conflict on completely different, new principles that are absolutely unacceptable to Europe for ideological reasons.
>11. In the years since the collapse of the USSR, Europe has emerged not only as a subject of economic and political relations, but also as a unified ideological space dominated by left-liberal values and principles. These values and principles include, among other things, the absolute primacy of non-violence over violence (discrimination against violence as a political method), recognition of the right of nations to self-determination, including their right to decide on membership in a particular union or bloc, including military ones, recognition of the inviolability of established borders in Europe, and the rejection of attempts to resolve territorial and other disputes by military force. This does not mean that Europe itself adheres to these principles in every specific case, but it demands their strict observance by others.
>12. In Ukraine, Europe is fighting not for Ukraine, but for itself and for a world order that maximally ensures its unity and, at a minimum, its subregional dominance. This order is based on very specific ideological principles, and any partial deviation from these principles, especially under the influence of foreign external forces, is viewed as a defeat for Europe and a risk factor.
>13. The United States, having survived the Trump revolution, has diverged ideologically from Europe and found itself at the other end of the political spectrum. They came to Europe not to defend the old order, which made Europe stronger and transformed it into a subject, but to destroy it and impose a new order that returns Europe to the position of a junior partner politically, economically, and ideologically dependent on the United States.
>14. The new American order, unlike the old European one, recognizes violence as a legitimate method of reorganizing the world, views international relations as an integrated result of the interaction of world powers, and considers it possible to disregard the interests of all those who are not world powers and cannot confirm their right to vote with the necessary number of military actions.
>15. Remarkably, the philosophy of Trumpism coincides in its basic principles with the philosophy of Putinism, and the mutual attraction of these two ideological currents is not accidental.
>16. With regard to one specific Russian-Ukrainian conflict, the United States, which is solving the problem of a secondary abduction of Europe, is generally ready to understand and accept the arguments of Putin, who is trying to solve the same problem with regard to a tiny piece of Europe that the American administration is not at all interested in. At the same time, obtaining exclusivity or at least preferences in trade and political relations with Russia compensates the American administration for all the problems arising from disagreements with their European allies.
>17. Relations between the United States and Russia are turning out to be as contradictory and unstable as relations between the USSR and Germany in the years before World War II. On the one hand, they wouldn't mind dividing up Europe, with Russia quite content to be the junior partner, receiving a modest but important share. On the other hand, their cooperation is at risk of collapsing at any moment in the midst of a profound confrontation due to the parties' almost complete lack of trust in each other.
>18. One way or another, relations within the Russia-US-Europe triangle, with China lurking in the background, are in fact the framework within which a long-term resolution of the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will take place (and which Kushner spoke about in his speech in Kyiv). This is precisely why all parties involved in the conflict have an additional interest in not rushing to resolve it, but rather in waiting for the balance of power within the triangle to shift in their favor.
>19. Such a shift is theoretically possible only in 2028, when the "big election" season ends in both Europe and the US. Strategically, it's advantageous for Putin to prolong the war until this point, hoping that Europe will experience a right-wing radical revolution similar to the one in America, and that the left-liberal wave will be replaced by a right-wing conservative one (Weidel, Le Pen, and Farage instead of Merz, Macron, and Burnham). But Europe also benefits from the same thing – hoping that by 2028, Trump will fade away like a bad dream in the US, and America will return from a right-wing radical agenda to a left-conservative one.
>20. And only Trump, in his personal capacity, needs a sufficiently rapid resolution of the conflict to chalk it up to his own account and increase his clan's chances of survival. This is precisely why the Americans are essentially playing against everyone today, forcing the parties to compromise, even though their ideological sympathies are undoubtedly with Russia and Putin. This was barely concealed during both the Moscow and Kyiv meetings.
>21. Based on all of the above, the prospect of ending the war in six months looks as dim as the prospect of ending it in three months. This is only possible if Trump breaks everyone.https://t.me/v_pastukhov/1996>>2915235Read Balayev instead. He predicted Trump's war on Iran to a t, also explaining how imperialism doesn't benefit imperial citizens even a little bit. It's quite funny how people say that higher gas prices in the US is a negative for Trump, when he is quite literally a puppet of oil lobby
>>2915135>BoomersLooks like nazoids to me
>>2915235>Russia<totalitarian power>Ukraine<it's military class is motivated but unintegrated into the stateYeah, you are reading a patented clown
>China is le attacking Europe via Russia as it's proxy state
Pffft hahahaha OH WOW
>American is le violent one
>European order is le recognition of state borders
<Trumpism is le the same as le Putinism
Yeah, a certified, patented clown, living on European grants, like Kagarlitsky and Komolov and Syomin
How is putinism the same as trumpism when they're exactly nothing alike
>>2915267Both are Chicago boys who support the international right wingers and Israel and do special military operations to take control of countries in muh sphere
>>2915347I will note that all of those seized companies get sold to Russian companies, they don't get nationalized
>>2915397Would it really matter if they were?
>>2915762I buy it, it’s a smaller world for the Russian Federation compared to the world for the USSR, hence the proxy war being on Russia’s European border rather than on a different continent as in the Cold War.
At the same time, Britain still trying to win The Great Game in a time where neither the Russian nor British Empires still exist, is policy that’s no doubt supported and encouraged by the US rather than dismissed by them as an anachronism in the End Of History à la The Troubles.
>>2915762No matter how bad it realistically gets in the future US is going keep being some sort of world power, that Russia has to keep try to get along at least on some level. If not for any other cause than to wrangle the europeans. EU and Europe however are keep going to be irrelevant and can never be a negotiating party in this war. The EU leaders are obsessed with "countering Russia" and keeping the war going and US engaged in Europe post-Trump, even to their own detriment. EU leaders are only going to obey the rod and need to be managed with that in mind.
>>2915762>Russians start a war against a neighboring country>Other countries support that neighboring country against Russia because they don't want to be next>WTF THIS IS SO MEAN AND EVIL AND THEY HATE RUSSIA The average Zigger's thought process is retarded. Yeah, sure, the EU Is using Ukraine to degrade Russia. But none of this would have occurred if Russian elites had a high enough l.Q. to not invade in the first place. All the EU militarization and anti-Russian sentiment would have never been able to spread if Russia had simply minded its own business and not attempted to launch an invasion of a European country, especially when EVERY EUROPEAN COUNTRY has as part of its education system a reminder of how appeasement failed against Hitler. Every European child has been taught from birth to reject any attempt at peace with any country attempting to annex another European country.
Every single European politician, even the so-called "pro-Russian" politicians, are not interested in allowing Russia to simply annex Ukraine. People like Meloni (Italy), Fico (Slovakia), Orban (Hungary), have all been caught taking actions to aid Ukraine to varying degrees despite occasionally praising Russia, and the same thing will happen if the AFD takes over in Germany and the National Front takes over in France. The only relief Russia might feel is in terms of economic trade deals that all these parties may be interested in, but all of these countries will still contribute military supplies and aid to Ukraine to varying degrees.
Putin's attempt to gamble on the "right-populists" of Europe is retarded for this exact reason. All the people he supports will praise Russia in public and in private continue to send arms and aid to Ukraine, because they are all smart enough to understand that if Russia's territorial ambitions are not rebuked, the Russian elites will be emboldened and they will try to take other countries.
>>2915830Getting the strawman out there early in the greentext, very conscientious of you.
>>2914262The US in Vietnam had a spectacular K/D ratio and they still lost
>>2915762what blind nationalism does to a motherfucker, that dimitri cuck has already praises the afd win in germany, its over.
>>2915860also funny how its the yurops who are the bad guys (which is true) but they were still a mere proxy of the US during the cold war. fucking trump cocksucking fags on both sides
>>2915235>economic and political relations, but also as a unified ideological space dominated by left-liberal values and principles. These values and principles include, among other things, the absolute primacy of non-violence over violence (discrimination against violence as a political method), recognition of the right of nations to self-determination, including their right to decide on membership in a particular union or bloc, including military ones, recognition of the inviolability of established borders in Europe, and the rejection of attempts to resolve territorial and other disputes by military force. This does not mean that Europe itself adheres to these principles in every specific case, but it demands their strict observance by othersnever been to yurop award, idealist hogwash that has nothing to do whats happening in yurop currently
>>2915844wasnt a border war
Cucktin keeps losing in the free market place of ideas. How are zizters coping with this
>>2916096Will he be going for the oil strat as well?
>>2916096When you try to learn a new game after 30
Two civilians killed in Moscow suburbs as Ukraine launches ‘unprecedented’ attack during elections – officials>The Russian military has neutralized more than 1,600 drones since Saturday, Mayor Sergey Sobyanin saidhttps://swentr.site/russia/646001-two-russian-civilians-killed-ukrainian-drone-strike/See? How can anyone have elections under such circumstances, like okay okay it was Ukraine trying to attack cities during elections but just imagine if that was Russia doing it to people who just want to vote for Zelensky which is everyone btw.
>Anarkiddie-Fascoid horseshoe theory
I thought he was using Bakunin's quote as an argument for why Bakunin was wrong, but instead they were SERIOUS with the quote, lmao
>>2916536I guarantee you it’s jucheschizo
>Just 40 more days
>Just another €3 billion
>Just a few more luxurious state visits
>Just sanction your energy source for a bit longer
>Please bro just spot me this time and I’ll pay you back I swear
<Steals the money, commits false flag attacks and accuses you of supporting Russia if you don’t cough up more
Honestly this must be what having a crack addict in your family is like.
>>291653440 more days bro, 40 more days and we got that war wrapped up just 40 more day and this time it's gonna work, come on just 40 more days bro.
>>2916541Zaluzhny should just coup the fucker already. He had like a 30% approval rating before the war anyway, no one will genuinely miss him.
>>2915030A competent military is also one capable of launching a coup. If your primary concern is remaining in power forever, it's a sacrifice you always make (see: most armies on earth).
Ukraine collapse status?
>>2916602Grandpa has entered the Alzheimer's fog stage, now reliving 2021 or something, when Russians circlejerked themselved about kiev in 3 days. Give him a break.
>>2916593That’s what he was sent to London for, the fear that he’d do exactly that and his popularity means killing or imprisoning him would make a martyr out of him.
He’s a carrot on a stick for the Ukrainian population, while he is in London they can huff hopium and dream of his return.
>>2916595Ackshually that’s down to “soft power” that everyone now pretends Russia had/has by the truckload. The US has perfected their soft power game by which people in a target country are screaming and begging for regime change regardless of what it’s likely to be. Russia simply doesn’t have the glitz and glam to sell people on thinking their leadership would intrinsically improve life immeasurably, unlike the US where a show like Friends is clearly bollocks and would never happen IRL but it’s a global phenomenon even 30 years after it first aired anyway because the US allows itself to be an
idea first and foremost, before getting down to the simple realities of its governance, economics, politics, etc which is what all other countries are limited to.
>>2916602Trump claimed he’d resolve this conflict in 24 hours with barely veiled threats against Russia, now his government are reduced to flexing on Russia that capturing Donbass has been delayed.
You wouldn’t know a naked emperor if he donkey slapped you.
>>2916602Zisters on suicide watch
>>2916618Trump did not start out threatening Russia at all lmao have you already forgotten that he hauled in Zelensky so that JD Vance could scream at him, or that his minions reposted clips of Ukrainians being forcibly "recruited" and dragged off the streets onto Twitter, therey amplifying the Russian narrative with the backing of the American government? He clearly believed that he could pressure Ukraine into a quick peace deal. What changed his mind is when he saw Russia continue to stalemate and he realized that Putin was incapable of meeting his self-assigned military objectives and now he's slowly switching to support Ukraine because he thinks Russia is now weaker than Ukraine. He flat out asked Putin if he was a "paper tiger". Trump only respects strength and he instinctively senses Putin is weak and Russia is not as strong as he would like to project.
>>2916833>Trump did not start out threatening Russia at all lmaohttps://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/25/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-war/Multiple mentions of “peace through strength” and this tidbit
>But this whole Russia thing: nobody was tougher on Russia, in history, than Trump. And the person that knows that better than anyone is President Vladimir Putin. He knows it better than anyonesuggests the claim (while ridiculous in any case) wasn’t about just cucking Zelensky to appease Putin.
>have you already forgotten that he hauled in Zelensky so that JD Vance could scream at himWell he needed to crash out at someone for looking like a tit, but can’t be the paper tiger with the 5000 nukes right?
>>29165345.7 MORE WEEKS!!!
I think the cure for Russia is growing so dependent on Xibucks that China can take charge of the national bourgoisie and install some kind of Dengist CPRF sockpuppet to LARP as the USSR. If nothing else, the threat of competent rivals may cause NATO to escalate as if a real communist revolution was happening, and maybe manifest deeper changes in the RF.
>>2916942why would china or nato do any of that other than to make you wet?
>>2916942RF will learn the productive ways of Market Socialism from the Chinese but add Russian characteristics. It will provide full employment with good wages, rising living standards, cheap homes, necessities and entertainment, while allowing the bourgoisie to continue making profits under strict limits and regulated so that they serve the interests of the masses and will get spanked (or wall'd) when they don't. After the NATO puppet regime collapses, Ukraine will join RF and Belarus, and later so will Georgia, Kazakhstan and others, and together they will be called the Save-A-Lot Union.
>>2916942>>2916987>>2917051plot twist, ukraine becomes market socialist and uses its new found wealth to defeat russia (and then poland)
Interpolish war
>>2917126>relentless ballot stuffing, banning Communist observers from the polls, disqualifying dozens of candidates, and implementing electronic voting so that vote tallies can be changed remotely means United Russia wonkek
>>2917158>implementing electronic votingTucker Carlson absolutely raging after praising Russia
>>2911703Nonsensical answer. I'll call you cherrypillpicking, the radlib. You cherry pick Marxism when is convenient for you (and still wrong), when you describe Moscow and when you describe Kiev, trying to put them in the same bag, ignoring a larger theory that already advanced almost 100 years after Marx started to work on his theories.
Then Dimitrov's descriptor of fascism has no meaning for you, the different degrees of layers of fascism has no meaning for you.
Also, your evasive with
>So you agree that fascists and nazism aren't reactionaries?Tells me you think nazism and fascism aren't reactionaries, which, is in part, different stages of the capitalism mode of production, as Dimitrov put it.
>But I'm still not excusing reactionary nationalism-traditionalism in RussiaYou are excusing neoliberalism 🫱🏻🫲🏻 fascism, when you put a state that erased neoliberalism in the same bag.
To other anons, the exchange was fruitful:
I could unmask what's beneath a person that has dedicated 4 years of his life to what I would call the endeavor of not learning anything about communism, and just learn some small passages of Marxist theory, just to piss a thread that causes him insane amounts of butthurt, lmao.
He indeed loves to be a moron, and stay a moron.
Flood detected; Post discarded.
To nafo, of course nazism, neoliberalism and fascism aren't reactionaries elements of a state, after all, "'basic Marxism' that states are not class neutral, and therefore it cannot be determined whether 'private' or 'state' ownership makes a state 'more reactionary'".
A non-connecting phrase:
"The state is not class-neutral."
(does not connect to)
"therefore you cannot determine whether private or state ownership makes a state more reactionary"
is somehow the key element of their pseudo-Marxian analyses. As if Marxism, and more broadly Marxim-Leninism, can't analyze whether a particular political-economic formation is reactionary by looking at class relations, political form, whose interests are being served, and the historical function of the policies, and categorize by different degrees by association.
They are not willing to admit that, because they would have to work with the conceptualizations of how Ukraine and Russia diverge in the questions of different bourgeoisies with different roles, formulating questions like:
>Who controls the state?
>Whose property relations does it protect?
>What happens to independent labour organization?
>What happens to democratic participation?
>What class interests are being enforced through coercion?
and when they do, they will realize (they know, but they willingly want to obscure this) that Russia answers for their people, whereas the Ukrainan state answers for the eu neoliberal project, nazism and fascism.
Marxism's rejection of state neutrality does not eliminate differences between property forms. Engels explicitly regarded some nationalizations as economically progressive while simultaneously insisting that state ownership under capitalism remained capitalist. Therefore, the political character of ownership has to be assessed through the class relations and political form surrounding it, rather than treating private and state ownership as politically interchangeable (which is what this: "'basic Marxism' that states are not class neutral, and therefore it cannot be determined whether 'private' or 'state' ownership makes a state 'more reactionary'". leads to).
But hey, each one can pick a hill to die on.
Sad that they prefer to die on a hill proudly championing the banner of ignorance.
>all that yap just to write >euro nazis
>>2917158is anyone going to contest it?
didn't think so.
>>2917376Oh, one has to carefully dissect things… that was the purpose of the last thread question:
>What do you want to hear to change your position about the war?nafo has in their heads a more reactionary state in Russia, than the state living in Ukraine.
>>2917341>dismiss everything including what my issues are with Russia (including in where it's different from Ukraine)>cherrypicking is when you use a very specific argument that Marx outlined as well for the same reasons>pretend I think fascism and nazism aren't reactionary >ignore the part where I point out capital flight continued under Putin (so much for "a state that erased neoliberalism")>pretend you know how long I've been posting hereAnd to top it all off the typical debatebro "I've defeated you" smugposting (lol)
>They are not willing to admit that, because they would have to work with the conceptualizations of how Ukraine and Russia diverge in the questions of different bourgeoisies with different roles, formulating questions like:What part about "I'm not interested in critically supp000rting states which are openly (socially) reactionary" don't you understand? How am I supposed to take the claim Russia is
less reactionary seriously when the ruling class feels the needs to dabble in reactionary social policies and "traditionalism"? And how can you argue I'm a shitlib for arguing there's more to life and people's beliefs than class and modes of production, when the USSR self-destructed giving birth to places like modern Ukraine?
>>2917385>You have to choose!I won't. It's a reactionary vs reactionary war. Picrel. (Which doesn't necessitate either side being a full blown nazi regime)
>>2917381Contest what? Who cares about bourgeois elections or expects them to be fair anywhere?
I love that video, it was great, all the evidence needed to prove that Kiev (correctly) thinks its supporters are mugs. It’s like the only thing we apparently see eye to eye on.
>>2917443Doesn’t matter because they’re in a coalition with the natural party of governance so for all intents and purposes they are in power. Meanwhile the results of Hoholistan’s elections were…uh oh! The Kiev regime doesn’t have any!
>>2917381I've argued that it will be hard for Russians to re-take communism after what happened in the ex Soviet Republics' communist parties. Look for instance kaja kallas, she was from a communist father. Where is she? look at iryna farion, ex communist in ukraine. Where is she? (rhetorical question, she was killed by reactionary elements of the ukrainian fascists). Russians simply don't trust their communists.
>>2917397Shush. I am not interested in engaging with someone who refuses to condemn publicly nazism, and facism, and smugly weasel out of the answer with sarcasm.
Be this the evidence of someone who engages in this bad faith: encloseted nazis, encloseted fasicsts.
>>2917448Will they think also their supporters are blockheads when the retaliatory strikes start?
Ukraine lost all exports capabilities, the steel industry and with a deficit budget nearing 35% of their total GDP (August revision), with Europe very reluctant to give more money.
>>2917493could the fact that cprf is united russia light have something to do with it instead?
>>2917520Only time will tell if the population moves UR towards a more democratized and less bourgeoisie-d party. But things won't come from the KPFR, at least for now. I think Zyuganov hasn't been able to read the population's main concerns.
>>2917517Absolutely, because Ukraine gets to have it both ways by which it’s a professional, high tech, well trained military worthy of NATO membership, as well as an underground people’s militia whose guerrillas make up for Ukraine’s lack of professional troops and cutting edge technology with their spirit and ingenuity to beat the Russians.
Ukrainian supporters will turn on a dime between the two mutually exclusive images of Ukraine according to either personal preference or simply in support of however Kiev wishes to present itself on a given day.
We’ve already had multi-day length attacks against Kiev, so of course landing a handful of drones on the outskirts of Moscow is very bandana-in-the-bushes guerrilla shit, supporters gotta pump a fist in the air and exclaim viva la bandera!
>>2917514So where did I refuse to condemn nazism/fascism?
>>2917126>the Ukraine puppet dictatorship's terrorism failed to disrupt Russia's elections Democracy wins over autocracy again
>>2917611Too busy sex touring to condemn fascists and nazis
>>2917544And add that that tusk made the freudian slip, revealing that the ukrainian military casualties "have reached" a "sad record" of 27,000 per month. look at the wording "have reached", so under his own admission, this number was over the thousands a month for years. perhaps in the 10 to 20k a month. This is revealing.
Now I wonder, what will Russia de-communize in the borderlands.
Why the mod didn't ban the FSB shills?
Remember, every accusation is a confession.
>>2917717
It's the same issue with India. Anglo-hate made them believe nazi-germany was about liberation, and such. Total nonsense, as it was shown by the complete tacit support gave by the US and the UK until the USSR changed the tide.
What is fun is the baltic states, rumania, hungary, bulgary; germany ukraine, finland, sweden, nowrway (first map);. The eu project as a whole is a nazi project.
>>2917725india lost near 200 million people and iran lost 2-5 million people starved to death. and both were nutural.
that's enough for anyone to hate them.
fuck allies.
Nazis were the good guys. yeah i said it.
if they won a two angloland piece of shits would be less.
(You do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to the Nazis") >>2917708lets make the two constrating colors red and orange.
>>2917725Challenges the Ukronazi thing though. Like yeah there are 1488 skinhead nazis (including from Russia, once quite common there but who were basically destroyed by 2010s anti-extremism laws) but it's much more complicated.
>>2917735For some reason I don't know, I can't access to that map. I am guessing here, but
>>2917738 this anon seems to have met with the same issue. So I took the data and asked chatgpt to make the map, but also add a gradient, redder for countries with more affinity to the USSR winning the cold war, 'oranger' for countries with more affinity to nazi germany winning ww2. For some reason the prompt, whatever I use, it's interpreted that the gradient must be also on 'some' countries? I don't know.
I'll try later on with claude.
>>2917741
Is this the dark woke I've heard so much about?
Putin's slipping. He's gonna have to stuff the ballots twice as hard next time or he'll outright lose. If their elections weren't rigged the CPRF 100% would have won this time. Granted, the Duma has no power anyway so it wouldn't actually matter. Until Zyuganov grows the balls necessary to kill Putin he's controlled opposition unless he proves himself otherwise.
I'm not an expert on the internal situation. Are there any *real* leftists remaining in Russia or has it been killed off?
>>2917847>stuff the ballots twice as hard next timeThat's not how it works. State-dependent companies simply force their employees to either vote for United Russia, or show at the polls at all. I've seen both. Ballot stuffing doesn't happen
Oh, and by the way, CPRF is on this too. and LDPR too. All the parliamentary parties are corrupt like that.
>Okay the elections aren’t a complete sham but United Russia uses trickery to win
Next we’re going to hear words like “gerrymandering” to explain why Russian elections are rigged.
I have to repeat my question; who cares about bourgeois elections or believes them to be fair anywhere?
Interimperialist conflict guys
>>2917945Russians for sure don't. Nobody wants to go to the polls, from my circle of friends and family.
>>2917947Yeah and neither does any of my friends and family vote in UK, on the basis that regardless of outcome you’ve got the same political class in power anyway.
The only reason why anyone cares about elections in Russia is simply the unchanging political class common to all “democracies” is recognised by Putin being President (and on one occasion Prime Minister) since 1999, people who are delulu about democracy therefore presume wonderful things would happen if Russia had “fair elections”.
Wonderful things being defined as the Russian population destroying their nuclear weapons, giving up their seat on the UNSC, publicly apologising for not accepting they lost the Cold War and handing all of their energy supply to BP in exchange for help from western liberal advisors on how to make Russian society more inclusive via exclusivity for its many ethnicities.
>>2917708Sigh, the Republic of Ireland really was wasted potential.
>>2917764
If I could understand what does that mean, I would feel very offended.
>>2917971Hmmm the rules are we have to listen to whatever AI says, if they claim Ireland is now Balt then we’ve just gotta accept that.
Lmao joking of course, in my line of work I we constantly get pushed to use AI as much as possible
The CPRF will have to break with Cucktin to gain legitimacy. Cucktin would try to ban it but it would still gain popularity similarly how the SPD got more popular even though they enacted the Sozialistengesetze. If they dont, they will be seen simply as Cucktin enablers and vanish once the EU funded sockpuppet party is in power. And that will happen, either after Cucktin is gone or during his term. The problem is, that the fake glowie sockpuppet glowie party is gonna gain support as long its banned and the war is going, its another recipe for polish style counterrevolution. The corrupt leadership in the cprf has to go.
>>2917994https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/communist-party-leader-calls-war-and-current-political-course-road-to-failure-in-russia-22743Banderite media seem to be able to recognise the KPRF’s opposition to Putin/United Russia (although Putin is an independent), albeit by apparently misrepresenting Zyganov’s position as surrendering rather than finishing the Banderites off already.
A rather alarming amount of talk in British media about what will need to be done and how people ought to be “if” Russia attacks, stiff upper lips, conscription and imprisoning pro-Russian voices and all that.
I’ve got the suspicion therefore that the UK intends to keep escalating its participation in Ukraine, fully aware of the fact that will eventually demand a direct response from Russia.
>>2917998>Even the Russian Communists understand Cucktin is leading Russia to ruinI think the only bright side of this complete cuckfest of a war is that the CPRF might take power after Cucktin gets lynched for losing against Ukraine. No one likes United Cuckssia. After the Communists take over Russia will finally recover and become a great nation again.
>>2918141>for losing against Ukraine.You’ve gotta let it go eventually Spurdo. Kiev is never going to satisfy your cuckoldry fetish, Zelensky isn’t able to let you buss.
>>2918141again?
when have russians been a great nation?
>>2917479>coalitionWhat ministries do they control?
>>2917443KPRF supporting this imperialist war was really a death sentence for communism in Russia. Well played by liberals in Kremlin.
>>2918485>KPRF>SupportingReal OGs will recall the KPRF was pushing for intervention in Donbass well before 2022.
>>2918485>KPRF supporting this imperialist warKPRF wanted the Banderites destroyed way before
I have inside info. Russia launching invasion of Baltics in mid October. Screencap this.
If you're in Europe..you have three weeks to escape
>>2918539Source for this?
>>2918617- Dude trust me
- It was revealed to me in a dream
- It is known
- The truth do not require sources for it it is self-evident
pick any
>>2918485>just 2 more weeks until communism and then the smo happened and ruined it all (sad face)KPRF has wanted the SMO since 2014. Putin was finally dragged to their position eight years later. They knew Minsk was a lie to buy time and Ukraine would never stop until they took back all 1991 territory or provoked Russia to intervene, whichever came first. KPRF knew a war was inevitable and waiting just gave the west time to build up Ukraine. Putin fans would say Russia also needed the time to prepare its military and economy for the blowback.
Eight years later Putin finally accepted the inevitability, but he blew it by being a softy and thinking Russia could just make a big show of force and the West would finally agree to follow a settlement and he could be a statesman and do diplomacy again (Minsk 3, but for reals this time).
Communists knew what was up from the beginning. And they don't condemn taking action against Nazis or define resisting NATO expansion as imperialism. That's for trots and libs.
Or maybe the KPRF's role is to say shit that Putin was already going to do anyways, only for Putin to go "damn you on some shit fr" to feed into the illusion that they are a multi-party democracy.
>>2918884That’s a real stretch, even for you, just to keep believing what you already wanted to believe in the KPRF being le FSB psyop in le dicktatorship to trick le dumb orc electorate.
If Putin actually wanted to intervene in Donbass then he wouldn’t have wasted time with multiple diplomatic projects like the Minsks. I don’t buy it that Russia was likewise just buying time to “sanction-proof” their economy because sanctions would be a wholly expected outcome of annexing Crimea anyway.
>>2918884>Or maybe the KPRF's role is to say shit that Putin was already going to do anyways,They are completely controlled opposition and provide no alternative for current liberal paradigm.
>>2918897He didn't say anything about the FSB. It could be tacit support necessitated by the maintenance of the legitimacy of their coalition by portraying the KPRF as having a position (any position) of present relevance different from JR.
>>2918915The implication is that the KPRF is controlled opposition and apparently I’m not the only one to pick up on that
>>2918911As for the rest of your post, it’s just retardation because you could easily have it both ways
>KPRF agrees with UR policy<See!? Controlled opposition!>KPRF does not agree with UR policy <Very sneaky! Pretending to disagree with their handlers like that! If one wants to read an unwholesome partisan message into the KPRF’s push for intervention against Nazi saluters, a far less embarrassing one is suggesting they’ve a vested interest in bringing two regions full of Soviet Nostalgists into the Russian electorate.
Probably loads of reasons for the Russian state’s reluctance to intervene despite support for that within both Donbass and Russia, one of them no doubt is because Russia was already in the process of modernising their military and Euromaidan (perhaps intentionally) coincided with Russia having spent its budget on R&D for Armata, Kurganets, Ratnik, Su-57, Koalitsiya, AK-12, etc basically all of which got delayed or essentially shelved in favour of doing the standard thing of just modernising what Russia already has in stock, given the civil war could have boiled over at any time prior to 2022.
The Russian military wasn’t particularly prepared by 2022, so in 2014 when everything is due to be replaced by more modern, high-tech, lower production rate (aka more Western) machines and scrapped, I can’t imagine it would have been any more successful than 2022.
i have to admit, seeing a LGBT Russia but everything else is the same would be so funny.
>>2918950The Ukrainian civil war.
>>2918951So like most Eastern and Southern European states that joined the EU/NATO?
>"oh Putin, its me, your secret gay lover"
<"zelensky, i told you we cant meet up anymore, where going to get caught"
>"well, if im going to be caught with a gay lover im glad its going to be you"
<"sstaaap :4) "
>"come on, lets do this, lets get wild"
<"ok"
>>2918952so basically >russia couldn't modernize it's army because it could invade ukraine at any time
eye-opening wisdom, buddy
>>2918952>So like most Eastern and Southern European states that joined the EU/NATO?not european but from what i believed arent most of them homophobic like poland etc.
>>2918520>The West is after all fake and gay but neo-Russia will be real and gay. Let's not forget that it was Russia after all that send the first LGBT team to Eurovision and it was Russians who were outraged by archaic European prudes who considered underaged lesbians to be inappropriate.russians stuff broom handles up each other asses and sit one another on beer bottles, not to even mention the wild gangbangs in their armed forces. if anything russia is aggressively gay in it's very core.
>>2918956Yeah because the vast majority of countries like Poland are unchanged (exceptions being in major cities), but have EU-compatible laws that would make Poland be considered “LGBT-friendly”.
>>2918955Your sarcasm depends entirely on the NAFO assertion that Russia invaded Ukraine on a whim, right?
>>2918961your obfuscation relies on that very assertion, i rephrased it for you so you can see how absurd it sounds
>>2918964No it doesn’t, the early 2010s represent the first time since 1991 that Russia was secure and financially flush enough to reform their military and they went all out producing prototypes to replace practically everything. Coincidentally around that time, events in its biggest European neighbour result in an extremely militaristic and hostile government who is willing to open fire on its Russian population, for which any response was going to result in economic sanctions by the West who are apparently thrilled by the events in Kiev.
Now that financial and military security situation for Russia has been completely flipped and they’re now having to rethink if the downtime for retooling all their factories to serially produce these prototypes and retraining their existing forces to use them is a wise idea given such a suddenly hostile environment.
Perhaps your ignorance isn’t around the circumstances but rather what an undertaking adopting a new military asset is, let alone an entire complement of them.
>>2918967oh nyo russia neighbour decided it wants to follow a different path than russians see fit for them. how fucking could they do that to russia's finance and security, the nazis!
fuckers basically tricked us to invade so we;d get sanctioned
>>2918970>>2918972Wow you really had nothing, did you?
please explain why ziggers are completely incapable of accountability, preferably without using the slogan >purely socioeconomic reasons
>>2918970When taking a different path involves killing hundreds of children in the east of Ukraine via bombs xD
>>2918975It’s fine that you’re absolutely fucking clueless about very basic military considerations, it’s just trying to be sarcastic about stuff you’re entirely ignorant on is a mug’s game.
>>2918972I mean to be fair, Trump’s not a hard man to trick
If an anti-campist wants to for some reason praise this masterstroke by NATO in essentially halting Russia’s military modernisation and putting them back in the position of relying primarily on Soviet-era designs (albeit with some upgrades), then I suppose they could.
>>2918981early 2000s trump was some guy that cameoed in home alone 2
>6 milion dead dombabuean kids
>which you used as meatshields
>ukrs do that as well
love this loop
>>2918997You didn’t read the post
>>2918999i did the first time you posted was as trivial back then as it is now
>>2919001>I refuse to understand the differenceThe foundation of anti-campism
>>2919008i understand your false dichotomies perfectly well i just refuse to accept them, especially in a post which you ironically started complaining about false dichotomies
kindergarten eristic
>>2919016You’re a retard if you genuinely think
>Being targeted in your own homeVs
>Commandeering someone else’s homeis a false dichotomy
2 more weeks of the anti-terrorist zone Ukrisisters we're close!!
>>2918997>>2919016Also that’s not what a false dichotomy is. I’m not sure what the correct term would describe a lib trying to reduce the context for a question down to binary yes/no answer, so that the answer can be yes or no for both sides.
Like what I assume you want is to reduce the question down to
>Did Donbass rebels use civilian structures for cover?and any more context, like said structures being their homes which a national military was advancing on, is supposedly a triviality you’ll refuse to account for. The Ukrainian military are now no worse for turning schools and hospitals into military installations because the “Donbabwean” rebels didn’t have the decency to accept their towns being shelled unarmed.
>>2919018gru-funded separatists used civilians in donbabue as meatshields, hence the civilian caualties - girkin admits to that and he'd know he personally ordered it
after 2022 russians did that as well, it got captured by patric lancaster who's literal shill for donbabue but too stupid to know when he's showing something he's not supposed to show
it's the exact same thing you accuse ukrs of doing except you claim ukrainians target civilians at their homes which adds another layer of irony since the only people targeting anyone at home were the donbabuean separatist between 2010 and 2022 while fighting their little mafia wars
and russians indiscriminately droning ukrainian commieblocks day in day out of course.
a binary choice/claim >urks bomb civilians, >orks don't bomb civilians is a false dichotomy (regardless of whether the statement is true of false)
>>2919025>gru-funded separatists<Iranian-backed PalestiniansNot interested in a take based on conspiracy theories that are convenient for those presenting it, I.e Kiev and Tel Aviv
>>2919026That’s not the point being made. The point is you trying to equate the Ukrainian military installing AA missiles next to apartment blocks, turning schools into barracks and parking military vehicles in shopping centres all over Ukraine, with Donbass militiamen being amongst their homes they’re defending from Ukrainian attacks.
If you really can’t see the difference, then you have to consider that Ukraine simply chooses not to evacuate the civilians they’re installing military equipment on top of, while evacuating everyone out of Donbass is entirely Ukraine’s goal so they can exert sovereignty over it.
According to what Girkin apparently said, you’re suggesting that the militiamen should have stepped out into a field, let the Ukrainian military shell them and once they’re all dead freely roll into Donetsk?
>>2919056>Donbass militiamen being amongst their homesword except those that were russian, georgian, azeri, turncoats from other parts of ukraine etc whose homes were they hiding in?
>>2919074>word, except I have more conspiracy theoriesSo GRU funded and with volunteers from all four corners of the globe… they’re putting Ukraine to shame with all this international support.
The Ukrainians are infinitely more based than the rest of Europe because at least they believe in their own country enough to violently resist the nuclear power trying to control them for 12 years. Meanwhile, Trump yells at a European country and (except for Spain) they capitulate while cope-posting about how sucking Trump's cock is a good thing. They don't even believe in defending themselves. It's why they insist on keeping Ukraine fighting Russia for as long as possible, because they KNOW, even though they'll never admit it, that unlike Ukraine, if Putin defeats Ukraine and then came knocking on their door they'd capitulate without a fight just like they do to Trump.
The history of the T-90M tank, call sign “Krepyish,” which withstood more than 40 drone strikes and several magnetic mines during a 12 km march in the Dobropillya direction.
The vehicle’s observation devices and gun were completely disabled, but they were unable to destroy it. Eventually, a “Baba Yaga” drone dropped tear gas on the tank, forcing the crew to evacuate. The tank crew managed to escape to an old trench, from which they walked for several days to reach their own lines. The crew was awarded the Order of Courage.
Such incidents are no longer isolated – modern combined anti-drone systems significantly increase the survivability of combat vehicles against kamikaze drones with small payloads. For example, the Polish publication Defence24.pl, citing the words of the commander of the 1st Corps of the National Guard, Denis Prokopenko, reports that it took approximately 125 drones to stop 2-3 Russian tanks.
>>2919334>they believe in their own countryHalf of Ukrainians escaped Ukraine at the first opportunity
>>2919638Russia about to advance to kiev any minute now for almost real this time
>>2912895i actually think you're NAFO. you say a few correct things and then mix it in with extreme exaggeration and reactionary bullshit to make it look bad.
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