General duscussion thread Inspired by the sucess of the Esoteric Hitlerism threads we used to have a while ago - talk about the O9A,Atomwaffen, and their modern knockoffs that are so often in the news these days. Thread to materially analyze and generally discuss anything you want about these groups from a leftist perspective.
I wonder what David Myatt is up to these days
Are these the guys constantly spamming the north korean spy and exposed getchan loli chit chat room stuff?
>low I.Q. nazis being schizos
Not interested.
>>2936398No, but this could be a good topic of discussion as the left also has a problem with cults. They were shilling some leftist-satanist group on the bordy and here we had the "juchefags" who might very well not even exist and be a figment of one anons schizophrenic delusions and also the current "World Maoist Front" that posts incomprehensibpe babble in /USApol/. But now that I think about it, given how much the O9A loves its "insight roles" its very possible that this is their attempt to recruit from leftist spaces using front organizations given that they have already done this many times before. Remember the Rural People's Party?
>>2936393>>2936395He abdicated his role in the o9a after 2012, when o9a.org was taken over by Chloe Ortega – it is now dormant after she left around 2020, where it was taken over by sone other guy who stopped posting on it.
Myatt has since published biographies and apologies for his time in the o9a, saying that he disavows all extremism, and has returned to scholarly work on ancient texts such as the Corpus Hermeticum. This is part of the transition from the sinister to the "numinous way". You can read his post-o9a blogs on his own website:
https://davidmyatt.wordpress.com/ >>2936400LLMs have allowed the bourgeoisie to spam everything with contrarianism and schizophrenia and narcissism and infighting to create a general atmosphere of paranoia and bad vibes. I call this "mass online MKULTRA"
>>2936524They dont even need to do that. LLMs have made it possible for any degenerate iwith moderate IT knowledge to shill any flavour of personal schizophrenia to the entire world, and there are always people in a bad enough mental state or place in life that they always inevitably attract followers and that point they have npcs they can manipulate into doing all kinds of vile shit in their name without having to get their own hands dirty. Its a great equalizer of the worst kind.
>>2936395Why are le esoteric nazism larpers so obsessed with looking like gimps.
If I see someone on the street dressed like that I'm gonna presume their a homosexual.
>>2936750Not to go full Gorky but a lot of them are openly gay, and a lot more are closeted
James Porrazzo died this year. He was leader of American Front and a "Fourth Positionist"
>>2936524not enough people know this
very real chance most of the internet is a psyop now, like a majority of it.
I'm trying to find a funny ass clip from some documentary featuring interviews with former Atomwaffen members. A FTM trans man talks about having a one to one with some waffenite and that dude admits to dating some latina, and so said trans man admits to being trans. Shit lives rent free in my mind
>The 'radical left'
<Bunch of white dudes seething about the Jews "Zionism" and complaining that immigration is undermining the Real Working Class
>The 'fascist right'
<Racemixers, browns and trans men dressing up in gimp suits and worshiping Mao and Satan
Hmmm
is any of these groups not run by glowuyghurs?
>>2936391Why do you always want to be talking about these freaks?
They're nobodies and yet we have had countless threads about them over the years.
Get healthier hyperobsesions.
>>2936414>Myatt has since published biographies and apologies for his time in the o9a, saying that he disavows all extremismwell, no
Myatt never admitted involvement with the O9A. When he talks about "extremism", he talks about neonazism and islamism
Read this 2023 interview with him
https://kianlayer0.com/david-myatt-interview-2023/ >>2937204Hard to tell, these groups are intentionally murky so the only things that are for sure are their documented crimes and the official records publihed regarding the more modern edgelord offshoots like 764 and MMC. The OG 09A intentionally makes their philosophy complex and confusing to weed out uncommited initiates and their members are instructed to impersonate groups and ideologies to co-opt them, but generally I believe they are pretty good deep dives.
>>2937218>The OG 09A intentionally makes their philosophy complex and confusing to weed out uncommited initiates It's debunked in this video.
I can't remember if it's in this one, or another.But did the OG ONA recruit from elite thinkers in university philosophy departments? Among volunteers at Greek archaeological digs? Or from successful master criminals in the yakuza or Russian mafia, even?
Did they fuck. They got established by spamming the David Icke forums.
So I don't belive this claim to want to weed out the raff raff.
is o9a even real?
>>2937278Yes, but maybe like the Animal Liberation Front in the '80s and 90's, In method of organisation only, obviously.
There was a central group who put out information.
But the idea was people would form their own groups and act independently. In the case of the ALF, members were often members of hunt saboteur groups.
Maybe ONA is a punk and more evil version of the old secret societies such as the Golden Dawn. In a biography of Aleister Crowley I read the author suggested that these orders were basically alternative gentleman's clubs.
With the ONA, there might also be a link to neo Nazi ideas about "leaderless resistance", or even the WWII Nazi "Mission Command" tactics.
>>2937296To be fair, in post 9/11 west, anything other than leaderless resistance would be suicide regardless of the political motivation. Gone are the days of centralized organizations with commanders and lieutenants. Not that they were that sucessful in the 60s either (see Symbionese Liberstion Army and RAF)
>>2936991>Myatt never admitted involvement with the O9AYou're right. I overstated this point.
What's funny of course is that even in that interview, he admits to creating the Star Game in 1975 – I wonder how that got back to old Anton, eh? The best case of Myatt's humiliating deception is in the Satanic Letters of Stephen Brown, where Michael Aquino rejects him for promoting human sacrifice (what Aquino properly identifies as a Christian veneration), and directly alleges that Myatt/Brown/Long are the same person. It was known all the way back then – so much for "honour".
>>2937218>complex and confusingIf you read the text, its all quite simple.
Life is an intersection of causal and acausal energy. The goal of the initiate is to increase his acausality until he becomes "immortal". This energy is not just in individuals, but in peoples. History moves by the aeonic sorcery of chosen adepts (e.g. cliology). The new era will be a galactic imperium, etc. Its a revised Spenglerian view of historical process, with added occult jargon. The West is Faustian, and so on. In Myatt's 1984 text "Vindex" he interestingly discounts Marxism as a Faustian worldview, since it is Magian (e.g. Jewish), but Spengler saw it as authentically Western – Lenin's 'components' make that clear.
>>2937278No – its literally the ramblings of like, 4 guys. Myatt, Moult, Ford and Sutter. All secondary characters are LARPers or schizos. It has no real existence as a 'group' or movement – its just edgy aesthetics.
>>2937296The Golden Dawn actually had cultural elites in it.
>>2937218>>2937657The added lore, first exposited in the Satanic Letters, is that the o9a is apparently part of a Sinister Tradition, stretching back milennia (with Merlin Ambrosius being the last public initiate). Anton Long was also initiated by a mistress in 1969, in Shropshire, so he is the final disciple. The construction of this myth is to locate Hyperborea in Britain itself, so as to give meaning to the land. The hyperborean symbol in Naos is Stone Henge for that reason – interestingly, in Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain (1136 CE), the "Giant's Dance" is transported from Ireland, with the stones themselves originally coming from Africa. So, this ancient symbol is apparently African, not British, based in its myth. Hermeticism, by the seven-fold way (7fw) is also the Western current, as opposed to the "Magian", and so this is the Sinister Tradition, as opposed to the Nazarene. I have previously shown how Plato is really the originator of kabbalah – and further, Gmirckin sees Judaism itself as derivative of Plato. Jews are a 'Western' construct, which is probably why Europeans worship a Jew as their God. Even the Corpus Hermeticum seems to plagiarise The Book of John, so the distinction of 'traditions' is meaningless. By the same terms, alchemy was founded by a Jewish woman; Hermetic philosophy only followed through with what was antecedent to it. Similarly, the revival of alchemy in the West comes through the Arabs. Renaissance is the cosmopolitan landscape brought about from urban, medieval trade.
<Despite all the resistance, the screech of prison gates loomed ahead. In 1995, the punitive system found Mason guilty of a felony — making a death threat involving a firearm — and sentenced him to three years in a "rehabilitation" center. Mason, who had committed a thought crime, was imprisoned in a maximum-security prison in the state of Colorado. From the very beginning, Mason incited rebellious sentiments among the crazy uyghurs and criminal mestizos: "I asked, 'What are you in for?' They replied, 'Oh, just for a shootout with the Westside.' A shootout with the Westside!? You and the Westside should unite and go shoot at the police, enter the city hall — kill them all — those are your enemies!"
<The Black Muslims thanked him for telling them about the Jewish question, exclaiming, "Now we know where to direct our anger!" During his transfer from the Pueblo County jail to the state prison, the mestizos even lined up to shake his hands in a sign of solidarity!
…
>Mason stated that the election of Donald Trump gave him hope, commenting that "in order to make America great again, you have to make it white again."
>>2942819 (me)
I completely forgot
<Mason's young mistress, with whom he was closely involved, betrayed him in 1993. Mason retaliated, evening the score with the whore, and threatened her with a firearm. This vindictiveness led to his arrest. Released on bail and with a trial on the horizon, Mason packed his bags and headed to Denver. During this hiatus, Mason made the acquaintance of high-ranking representatives of the Church of Satan. Mason had long held an unrequited respect for Anton LaVey and was the proud owner of a vintage 1968 LP recording of The Satanic Mass. LaVey had also personally gifted Mason an inscribed copy of his Satanic Bible. Lex Talionis (the law of retaliation) was a clear concept that Mason adhered to and found compelling:>“LaVey had a lot in common with George Lincoln Rockwell. They were both showmen. Rockwell’s father was a vaudeville character. LaVey was a carnival man. LaVey concluded that if God is depicted by the Christian church [as it exists] as weak and even as a symbol of suicide, then it stands to reason that his opposite [Satan] deserves a re-evaluation. Satan must represent strength, including life force in the Promethean sense. So, based on that, LaVey created his Church of Satan. I found it very witty.”P.S. Anton LaVey was Jewish, and A. Wyatt Mann was also a member of his church.
>>2937269there's nothing complex about their philosophy if you even wanna call it that. the elites (white) are gonna get together, do some raping and build some spaceships and colonize the galaxy. easiest to understand retardation imaginable
>>2942856>picrelholy mkultra
I'll skim some of the youtube videos above later (unless the 'essayist' has an annoying voice, as they often do) but the gist is that these guys are basically edgy pedophiles who sometimes spur a teenager to kill themselves o algo, is that right? It seems pretty obnoxious and soyjackparty adjacent
>>2943108Im willing to put forth the hot take that they might have had more than a hand in the rise of the 'arty
>>2943214i have a theory that O9A is a CIA front group and also that the O9A invented black metal
>>2943267>O9A is a CIA front groupMore than likely
>O9A invented black metalEhhh what makes you think that
>>2943291the brand of edgelordery is exactly the same as what o9a peddles. even if not directly affiliated one of those norwegian tards probably read their books or something
>>2943291>>2943293Black metal is a current 218\TBL\SMO thing (anti-cosmic satanism, Quayanite Gnosis, etc)
o9a does NSBM
>>2943402> NSBMNew Super Bros. Mario?
>>2937218>The OG 09A intentionally makes their philosophy complex and confusingwe live within a hyperperspectival (n-dimensionality of the acausal manifold) integrally unfolding (~wyrd) cosmos which discloses itself through various ways of being in the world. these various ways further disclose the originary integral hyperspectival nature to various degrees of comprehensiveness/sensitivity (~acausal charge). separation-of-otherness pertains to a particular trait of some modes of existence which tends to reify the separation of objects into self-standing entities which have no need for any form of relationality. the cancelling of separation-of-otherness is the return to collective primordiality. an aeon is a particular way in which the physis of the cosmos discloses itself at the level of a planetary world soul. it is our duty to the cosmos itself to disclose more of its originary integral hyper-perspectival nature, ergo to progress the aeons
from 'The Perspective From Space', Myatt:
<One of the most important things to have happened in the last several hundred years is the publication of the photographic images of our planet taken in Space.<One of these - among the first and still impressive - was the image taken on the Apollo 8 lunar mission. This showed Earthrise as seen from the vicinity of our natural satellite, the Moon. Another impressive, beautiful, photograph was taken on the Apollo 11 mission.<Subsequent images from Earth-orbiting man-made satellites have mapped our planet in considerable detail.<What is important about these images is that they place us where we truely belong: on one planet, orbiting a star which is but one star of millions upon millions of stars in a galaxy which is but one galaxy among millions upon millions of galaxies in the cosmos.<That is, these images of our Earth give us a new cosmic perspective on our own lives, on our own problems, just as they show how small we are, and how small our own planet is. In particular, they can and should cause us to consider how we fit-in with the other human beings, and the other life, with which we share this planet.<These images can and should reveal to us our humanity, as they can and should inform us of how petty, how childish, we are being when we are arrogant toward and indifferent to other human beings, and other life, on this planet which is our home.<These images can and should reveal to us how we should change our own behaviour, our own attitudes, our own thoughts, by growing up: by taking the next leap forward in our evolution, as human beings. For thousands upon thousands of years we human beings have concerned ourselves with our own feelings, our own personal desires, our own personal needs, our own personal feelings and feuds. At best, we have put the interests of our own family, our own tribe, our own clan - and latterly - our own "nations" before ourselves, but only to squabble among ourselves.https://lapisphilosophicus.wordpress.com/the-aeonic-perspective/<In addition, the nexion that is the individual is part of the matrix of all living beings, human, of Nature, of the Cosmos. That is, the individual is a connexion to all other Life, terran and otherwise, although this connexion is dormant and undeveloped in most human beings. That is, a latent faculty. One of the aims of many Occult ways – be they termed of the Left Hand Path or of the Right Hand Path – is to make the individual aware of this connexion that they are, open it, and develop it, and certain esoteric techniques have been developed in order to try and accomplish this, with Initiation often being regarded as the beginning of this process.<[…] In esoteric terms this means that we, the O9A, are concerned with:<(1) Both Wyrd and destiny. That is, with the development of our Initiates and Adepts (their destiny) and with the development of Aeons, and thus with how the individual relates to those energies/forces which are beyond the individual and which effect them until they have completed a successful Passing of The Abyss when they emerge with wisdom: that is, with a knowing, skills, understanding, and experience sufficient to enable them to synchronize with, and then later on manifest, Wyrd.<(2) Both the sinister and the numinous – the sinisterly-numinous. That is, with the knowing, the experience, the understanding, of both and then a moving toward and a living involving the Reality beyond such apparent opposites.<[…] Other esoteric groups, especially of the LHP, do not present them with this understanding and thus cannot offer them the opportunity of such a wyrdful participation, concerned as such LHP groups are with guff such as the ‘deification of the self’ and the perpetuation of primitive human beings by means of a belief such as ‘might is right’ [3].<[…] Or, expressed differently, the changes wrought by causal forms – by wars, revolutions, empires, nations, and through means such as politics or social reform, or by governments – are transient, and do not, over centuries, affect human beings en masse. For humans remain and have remained basically the same; rather primitive beings, dependant on and in thrall to abstractions, to their emotions, to archetypal forces, and never developing their latent faculties, never fulfilling their Cosmic potential, with only a rare few human beings achieving wisdom.<This is why initiatory Occult groups and orders of our kind exist – to manifest and maintain such understanding over centuries; to produce and encourage, over centuries, Aeonic changes, and to develop, evolve, human beings by means of Occult Arts and thus in the only effective way: from within; esoterically; by changing their character, their nature.https://cosmicreich.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ethical-ns.pdf (see 'The Theology of National-Socialism')
<For National-Socialism, the meaning, the purpose, of our lives is to further evolution: both our own, and that of our folk. This is so because according to National-Socialism we are not isolated individuals, but rather a nexion - a connexion between the past and the future. We can, by our life and deeds, make a difference: aiding evolution, or not aiding evolution. That is, the perspective of National-Socialism is the perspective of Nature, and the Cosmos beyond, for we are regarded as part of our folk, our folk is part of Nature, and Nature part of the Cosmos. There is thus in NationalSocialism a Cosmic perspective as distinct from the individualistic perspective of both Islam and Christianity. For both Islam and Christianity see our lives as a means for us, as individuals, to attain Jannah (Paradise) or Heaven. The main motivation of Muslims and Christians is to do what their Ways of Life inform they should do because then they, as individuals, will be rewarded with Paradise, and Heaven<[…] the Cosmic Being of National-Socialism is regarded as the Cosmos in evolution, with Nature representing one manifestation, one incarnation, of the Cosmic Being on our planet, Earth. Thus, the Cosmos Being is not complete, not perfect - but an evolving, changing, being - just as we ourselves are the Cosmic Being in evolution, and just as Nature is this being in evolution. That is, there is a symbiotic relationship between us, as individuals, as members of our folk, between us and Nature, between us and the Cosmic Being, and between Nature and the Cosmic Being. Nature is also a being: that is, some-thing which is alive, which changes. Nature is thus that innate creative force in the natural world of our planet which causes, or is the genesis of, and controls, living organisms in certain ways. All life - on this Earth and elsewhere in the Cosmos - is regarded as connected. That is, the Cosmos is a Unity, a matrix of connexions, which affect each other. This Unity can be understood by the concept of Acausalhttps://web.archive.org/web/20170910083143/http://www.fgu.edu.tw/~cbs/pdf/2013論文集/q16.pdf (has one of the closest ontologies to the longusian formulation of the acausal, but notice it lacks a notion of aeonics due to its latent idealism)
<What we think are the essences of objects are really therefore nothing but mere names, mere functional designations, and none of these contextual definitions need necessarily interfere with any of the others. The significance of an object, and in fact it’s very reality, at any given moment is a function of the contextual perspective from which it is approached. At rest, all of these potential contextual perspectives interpenetrate, in that each context is at that point still merely a possible approach to functional significance. Functional designations are actualized when the moment of their use for some practical purpose is at hand. And a particular perspective is adopted.<The second type of perspective is represented by the word “li” (理) which translates as “rule” or “underlying or abstract principle.” In that general sense, li is what all shi have in common. To shift perspective to li is to resolve all distinctions into some commonality. For example, we can either see coffee and tea as separate things, which would be the perspective of shi, or we can see them as all being water, which is the perspective of li. However, in the case of Huayan metaphysics, the li is sunyata or emptiness. What all things have in common is that they all lack self-causation or causal autonomy (svabhava, 自性 zixing). Everything depends on everything else. The Buddhist texts warn us, however, not to reify or ontologize emptiness and thus make it into another kind of a “thing.” It is a way of describing things, not a thing in itself. So whereas in the first dharmadhatu things are seen as distinct things, in the second they are all seen as similarly empty of self-being.https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/ext/sinnbildundsein.pdf<Man as a disclosure of being, is primordially a participation in Being: for this disclosure of Being there is no logos in Plato’s sense, only an identification. There is possession by symbols and their possibilities (the ‘unconscious’) and not yet possession of them as occurs when logos transforms through ιδεα into ‘reason’. Before this transformation there is no individuality because individuality [emphasis added] (as a condition of Being) is the process of abstraction that transforms θύσις into λόγος as reason. Collectivity is primordial [emphasis added]: through Being’s change, grounded as man’s dichotomy because of such unfolding, this becomes individuality, the consciousness of identity, as idea, has replaced it. In speaking about individuality one is already speaking about the change of λόγος – from participation to the Word. Θάσις through πόλεμος has become νοΰς (mind), and there is διαλεκτική (19)https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/blog/posts/2025-08-27-How-to-Think-Organically.htmlbecause of sensationalism and cultural perversion, the "sinister" aspects of the o9a have been overemphasized. this leads to a one-sided understanding. the praxis of the o9a is actually sinister-numinous. the former pertains to the transgression of causal abstractions while the latter involves the intuition of the collective primordiality underlying causal separation. the problem with the overemphasis of the sinister is that without the intuition of the numinous, it is easy for things to reify into new causal abstractions. the figure of satan for instance and the notion of an absolutely separate individual are ultimately abstractions which must be moved beyond. actually, if you look at the eastern left hand path (e.g. vamachara), this much is taken for granted. the western lhp is poisoned by liberalism and ultimately satanism remains an incomplete iconoclasm because of it. this is why it is important to go beyond it
>to weed out uncommited initiatesthe most important parts are clear enough if you read carefully. labyrinthos mythologicus more weeds out edgy satanists who are ontologically incapable of thinking aeonically. quoting from otonen:
<The most usual magickal task involved the novice assuming the 'role' of a dark sorcerer/ sorceress for example, dressing in black and cultivating a satanic appearance - and in this guise attending various Occult functions and generally trying to provoke argument and dissent. The novice in this is advised to cultivate an attitude of arrogance and pride and must be prepared to defend forcefully their Satanic views. Following this, the novice is expected to infiltrate another magickal group/Order with the intent of attending a ritual and during that ritual either redirecting the magickal power (if any) or invoking by their own effort during the ritual a powerful force of their own choosing to disrupt or otherwise alter the original ritual. In some cases, the novice may organize their own group (recruiting people for it) for just this purpose.<This magickal task develops not only the use of magickal forces in an interesting way but also provides the novice with a goal the attainment of which is invigorating. It also provides an opportunity for the novice to develop various skills pertaining to the manipulation of other individuals chiefly through the deliberate development of a 'charismatic' personality or role. Its the fundamental task of the novice to learn from those experiences - that is, not to allow the role to become dominant. [emphasis added]<This is achieved by the novice remembering that they are involved in a seven-fold quest and accepting the advice given by the Master or Mistress who assigned the task. Both of these things some novices find difficult to do. The behaviour of the novice during this task is governed by specific guidelines - failure to observe the guidelines by an individual means the end of their noviciate as far as the Order is concerned.>>2943214>>2943267top minds of leftypol
>>2937657anton long is not a person but rather a pen name used by multiple people including david myatt. from kian tveitan's investigative journalism, there is an underground networks of kollektivs who practice this stuff, it is not just those guys
>what Aquino properly identifies as a Christian venerationthe theme of ritualistic sacrifice as a substitute/enactment for the death of a god is also in the dionysian mysteries, and sacrifice figures into the apophis moment of the IAO formula (which connects to kenneth grant's work on the typhonian tradition, austin osman spare's death posture, and the cultus sabbati's extensive ritual systems) - outside of western contexts we have kali (~o9a's baphomet) and shiva (~satan) who adorn themselves with garlands of severed heads. the setian tradition has failed to properly acknowledge the crossing of the abyss because of their idealist phenomenology unable to grasp the hyletic dimension of experience or even just the mode of being that is readiness-to-hand
>>2946865wait i forgor to include the rest of the symbol and being quotation which explicates the relevant part for o9a's "soteriology"
https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/ext/sinnbildundsein.pdf<This change is already foreshadowed in Heraclitus, as the genesis of the Aristotlean opposites (20). With Anaximander, this transforming is not yet evident: participation in the One, although subject to change, returns – άρχή is still the limit-less, τό ‘άπειρον. There is no separation, no opposition between Being and existents. For Anaximander, therefore, there is no geographer, or meteorologist, or historian – only knowledge (participation) of all as it is. And it is because of change that abstraction must be returned, through mathematics, to this participation: change has caused the separation and change will represence the separated.<Such a return is authentic existence. This participation to the Word takes the form of the change of Being through intuition, sensation, feeling and finally thought, all of which are conditions of man’s being in the world, or how Being first shows itself through its unfolding. Intuition is unconscious (acausal) perception, sensation the conscious perception which arises when participation becomes transformed to identity. Feeling already implies idea – as value, judgement and finally ‘truth’ θύσις has become λόγος, the Word.let me attached a pdf which includes myatt's 'The Perspective From Space' writing too
>>2946865>>2946881Is it worth reading?
>>2946865>anton long is not a person but rather a pen name used by multiple people including david myatt>multiple peopleBollocks. It was always a one-man operation.
>underground networks of kollektivs who practice this stuffThe o9a ended in 2012. I don't take real notice of anything afterwards.
It was even formally disbanded on 21 December, 2021 by 'officials'.
There is Myatt (1974–2012), Moult (1984–2012), Ford (2000–2008) and Sutter (2004–2008) as the only relevant players. Chloe Ortega (2014–2022) only managed the website after the Dreccan had cannibalised everything for the service of Choronzon, Ford's obvious importation into the ToB. This demon also destroyed Crowley's magic.
>the theme of ritualistic sacrifice Human sacrifice in particular is a Christian motif.
The symbol of the crucifix is a corpse. This is nihilism. Death-worship.
Christians simply accuse Satanists of doing what they do, so Myatt's emphsasis on opfers shows his Christianised view of spirituality. It is Christians who are cannibals (e.g. Eucharist), etc. Basic projection.
>>2946865literally phenomenology for larpers
>>2947292How would a "non-christianized" Satanism look, or is satanism naturally christcucked?
>>2947359>is satanism naturally christcucked?Yes.
Satanism is adversarial to Christianity, so will always reflect it.
The desire to transgress displays a primary adherence to a master.
A positive Satanism would be antinomian, but de Sade, or Sabbatai Zevi show us, whether evil is taken as an end in itself, or a means to an end, it assumes an ethical character, and so reverts into being pronomian again. If evil becomes compulsory to violate the good, the compulsion itself is an ethical command. Evil simply becomes good, so the deeper theological mystery is realising that evil doesn't actually exist. If we read the Bible, the Devil is a loyal servant of God who only tests faith, but never intervenes. He asks God permission.
So then, once we discover that evil is a pure illusion, we can now mature as being driven toward the good itself. The prodigal son is wayward, but eventually returns to the narrow path of salvation. To sum up, where one transgresses, he presupposes the authority of another, and where one transgresses against transgression, there ceases to be rebellion. There is no absolutely evil act, except suicide.
the 'arty is a 09A front btw
>>2947231worth it for…? i have a very particular perspective on ontology, metaphysics, and the occult and it is only by virtue of this that i take the ideas seriously at all. so for me i was able to extract wealth from the ideas but if you listen to
>>2937269 despite everything he read it doesnt seem like he was able to get much from it. ive met some people who have made similar observations and are attracted to this stuff for similar reasons but i cant say how representative of the experience of the average person reading this stuff. if u want to get an idea of the themes i find interesting personally i recommend first reading:
https://sevenoxonians.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/acausalscience-dwmyatt.pdfhttps://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/ext/sinnbildundsein.pdfhttps://perceiverations.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/numinous-way-pathei-mathos-v7.pdfhttps://substack.com/@sinisterstudies/postshttps://sinisterstudies.substack.com/p/veiled-strengthhttps://rounwytha.wordpress.com/>>2947326my understanding of the occult is very much coloured by continental philosophy so i see ritual practice as an embodied poetics. as such, the heighted phenomenological self-consciousness in myatt is appreciated. another occultist i plan on reading more of who is not related to this whole niner thing would be peter hamilton-giles who draws on merleau-ponty, levinas, etc to articulate a phenomenology of witchcraft which can be found here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/385485403_Meta-Reflecting_the_Otherwith that said i think the core philosophy of the o9a goes beyond phenomenology and moves into process philosophy and transcendental empiricism as the acausal is also understood as a formative principle not only animating living beings but also structuring our practical activity. this observation encouraged the development of the notion of 'aeonic materialism' which i took from a philofiction project called liber909
https://mental-labour.neocities.org/liber909/strangeaeonshttps://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/phil/terseaeonmat.html>>2947359the actual problem with satanism is that it is difficult to think negation in a way which is not dialectical. the issue with such a dialectical framing is that it admits a reconciliatory negation of the negation. this was something that fascinated me the most about the concept of satanism some years ago - from a hegelian perspective, satanism is simply impossible. so is satanism thinkable in some other framework? perhaps. one first needs to rethink difference so that it is possible to affirm difference in-itself. here deleuze is quite instrumental. id say then the closest formulation of a true 'satanism' would be pic rel as they proceed from such a reformulated premise. they are careful to no longer think in terms of a negation upon an ultimately symmetric structure that would ultimately just reaffirm a magian cultural morphology. it is a satanism which ultimately embraces the inevitability cosmic extinction. tbh the o9a also affirms difference-in-itself as creative evolution at times, while at other times it gets turned into a simply moralistic affair (likely a consequence of the fact that they were never interested in reifying the sinister as an end-in-itself to begin with)
personally though i dont see christianity as something that should be entirely opposed or avoided to begin with. the whole thing just seems silly and i dont feel like everything needs to be 'sinister' either
>>2947292>It was even formally disbanded on 21 December, 2021 by 'officials'.those were the seven oxonians disassociating themselves from the brand. kian has personal contacts with a lot of these people and was the one who confirmed that anton long indeed is not a singular individual. the o9a is not even a centralized organization to begin with so the notion that the whole thing could have 'ended' because one guy stopped writing stuff or some idealized lineage of 'the relevant ones' stopped doing so doesnt make much sense
>Human sacrifice in particular is a Christian motif.ok just ignore everything i wrote whatever
>>2947390>There is no absolutely evil act, except suicide.?
>>2947390>>2947636Suicide isn't even evil. SMH
>>2942856Just gonna make a few assumptions about this person
>American>Under 25 years old>No higher education>No job prospects>Very unlealthy>Has many addictions and compulsions >>2947636>>2947719No agreed upon definition of evil, pointless to discuss here
>>2947950Not her, but as a former(?) trans fascist, all points except America
>>2948097>(?)why question mark
I think even talking about these people is a bad idea. Just let them rot in obscurity forever.
can someone please tell me what the difference between "esoteric" and "exoteric" fascism is. Because it seems to me esotericism is just nonsense.
reminder that glowies can be schizos too. feds and cops are known to put their most insane personality types into the covert side of ops. schizos are drawn to occultism.
>>2947462>the notion that the whole thing could have 'ended' because one guy stopped writing stuff or some idealized lineage of 'the relevant ones' stopped doing so doesnt make much senseHere is the paradox. O9A is supposedly open-source, yet it also has an orthodoxy based on the writings of one guy. Both cannot be true. As Crowley worried about Thelema, it became Crowley-anity. Similarly, hebdomadry is really just Longusian Thought. All else even shows its revisionist character, like introducing qabalah into the ToB. Aquino revised LaVey's Satanism, and so made something complely different.
>just ignore everything I saidMyatt is a Western man. Satanism is a Western inversion of Western Christianity. Christ is already a Dionysian figure.
>>2947636>>2947719From the view of evil as end in-itself (e.g. diabolical evil), suicide is the only ethical act (e.g. an act of pure Will), since it is unconditional. It is actually found in the writings of Schopenhauer, that the will-to-death is the only ethical act. Schopenhauer, de Sade and Zevi are the only three thinkers of evil in history, since they conceive of it, necessarily. If you understand evil as negation, you misunderstand, but positive evil is comprehensive evil, with its compulsion towards suicide; i.e. and so is the only absolutely evil act, since even murder fails to be absolute. Nietzsche thus intervenes by rightly seeing morality as nihilistic, since it can only reject life. The Will-to-power is thus beyond good and evil.
To express it another way, if murder is evil, the murder of oneself is not just evil, but absolutely evil, and so becomes good again. If we also look at moralists in history like Jesus, he says to hate life and become a martyr. A type of ascetic suicide which curses existence. So, good and evil as they are conceived of as categorical imperatives, are identical. This is why the rebel always becomes a contrarian, and the contrarian becomes a conformist. One cannot negate negation except by becoming positively-oriented toward his conceptual object. The psychoanalysis of rebellion thus shows that it really serves a master. No one is more invested in Christianity than the Satanist, etc. and contrarily, the Christian obsesses himself with Satanic fantasies, symbolised from his own repressions. The Christian eats the body and drinks the blood of a man, then accuses others of ritual cannibalism. As I say, it is a projection. If the Satanist internalises this idea of evil, by killing people, they serve the fantasies of Christians.
>O9A, Atomwaffen, and their modern knockoffs that are so often in the news these days.
no they aren't, this is a bubble of terminally online discord larpers
>hread to materially analyze and generally discuss anything you want about these groups from a leftist perspective.
14 year olds who eat their lunches in the stalls and pedophiles, t. karl marx, please stop giving these people time and attention
>>2948368She can still be saved but it requires serious effort on her behalf and a functional healthare system and neither of those are happening so im gonna consider her a lost cause. Many such cases unfortunately.
What a pure schizoprenic thread, I always remember the guy that believed in Goetia spirits only to discover that he was having halluicinations and went to be hospitalized after becoming a danger to himself and others, my point: don't waste time with schizo things, go learn stuff that matter, not fantasy from mentally ill people.
>>2948368I sincerely hope this person gets off the screens and finds contentness in the real world.
>>2948338>no they aren't, this is a bubble of terminally online discord larpersYes, they most certainly increasingly are. Might be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but in my country in 2023 there had been three widely reported incidents where the authorities had thwarted O9A-inspired terror strikes and ritual sacrifice plans. In the UK they found in the harddrive of that guy who had killed the three girls O9A-adjacent materials (from one of those spin-off O9A groups, but can't think of their names rn; 617 and Kill All Humans or something?). And then there are those Terrorgram channels which do terrorism challenges where they reward people for video proof of their deeds, and which also facilitate various jobs like urging kids to set apartments on fire and do targeted killings of people.
It has gone way past a larp at this point, and it's only gonna get a whole lot worse.
>>2948530That's just society being anomic, if it wasn't with a satanic cosplay it'd be with another.
>>2948559Certain ideological movements occur or become appeal under specific material conditions, and as a response to said conditions. In a nihilist age some start drifting towards old ideas like "traditional values", while others embrace the nihilism. All of these people may have end up lashing out the system pointlessly whether or not they had been exposed to O9A thinking, but since they were, they could use it as a justification for their actions. That's how ideology works: we use it to build a nomos or a story of the world around us, which then gives us a role, a function or situates us within a context that then guides and orients our actions, or gives us goals which to pursue.
>>2948582As they say, guns don't kill people, people kill people – with guns.
This is also why ideology is also ultimately hollow.
A good and bad person will be good or bad no matter the ideology.
>>2948588>A good and bad person will be good or bad no matter the ideology.Don't you think that's a bit too fatalistic of an outlook? Taken to its logical conclusion, it supposes that we can't affect our moral character at all (which, as an extension, is to say we can't affect our behaviour by simply changing our beliefs regarding the goals of our actions), and that evil and good are some essentially ingrained aspects of people, not much different from the Christian doctrine of original sin.
>>2948606>Taken to its logical conclusion, it supposes that we can't affect our moral character at allIn some respect, yes, and in another, it only proves that immorality is not a result of bad choices, but bad options. The division of labour is proof that almost any useless thing can become useful it is invested in. Look at slap boxing. Who would think you could get paid to slap others and get slapped yourself? In a non-commercial society, this behaviour would be immoral and idiotic, but in ours, it is useful. In the same way, a murderer has a use, as a soldier, or a butcher, and so on. It seems to be a genetic fact that at least 1% of the population will be psychopathic. These types also make up most violent crime. Put them to good use, rather than bad use. So then, one's options determine one's choices. This is also why Fourier imagined work may become play in a utopian society; all sin and vice has a redeeming quality to it. Even as Bakunin said, destruction is really a type of creative impulse.
>original sinBut the idea of Christian salvation is ideological. It's about belief.
I am saying that belief is bullshit. All that's real is human activity.
I do not think we are "saved" by having the right ideology, but only in choosing the best life based on our personal, idiosyncratic talents. Look at autistic savants; Rain Man type people – they are useless in every way, but some particular thing unlocks a trapped potential.
>>2948530> Might be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but in my country in 2023 there had been three widely reported incidents where the authorities had thwarted O9A-inspired terror strikes and ritual sacrifice plans.… so they have the relevance of a small, particularly larpy black guerilla family chapter? i knew guys who were o9a when i was like, 16, all urban legend to draw stupid teenagers in for pedophiles to pray on. it's a sharty offshoot with satanic panic characteristics and, like any other, it thrives off fighting over the scraps of 2016 greentext videos
every time you say their name, they win, that applies to all chud groups
One thing (among many others) I will personally never forgive the media is calling these people "nihillists" and permanently attaching that word to pedorapist edgelords whereas nihilism is an actual anarchist tendency with actual real life history and a coherent idea. There is literally nothing fun in life that doesnt get ruined by chuds. Literal cultural pestilence.
>>2948958>nihil-ism<the belief in nothing>uhm actually it is a belief system!Why as an egoist, are you so spooked?
>>2949227>the belief in nothingNot at all. Its an Anarchist current of pure negation, it has nothing to do with philosophical hopelsesness popularized by insufferable neckbeards.
>>2948324>it also has an orthodoxythe sinister tradition is more about orthopraxy as opposed to orthodoxy. this is like pagan faiths and unlike christianity (which is part of why the authority of individual judgement was eve a thing to begin with). furthermore if hebdomadry is just longustian thought then there is even less reason to declare that the "o9a" is "dead" (and besides, there are plenty of kollektivs who do not have much of a public presence who nevertheless continue the practices of the sinister tradition). i would say there are ways in which hebdomadry strays from longusian thought qua the rejection of "occultism" and the "sinister" elements but i think we could agree that the 7fw was the most important and unique element of the o9a. hence i do think those other groups like the tob are revisionists, the seven oxonians could be classified as ultras, and while we are at it i would say that my relation to the sinister tradition is much like my relation to marxism
>Christ is already a Dionysian figuremyatt's satanism was specifically against magian cultural morphology. dionysus does not necessarily belong to such a morphology. you are also assuming that christo-satanism is impossible, which is simply not true. there is, for instance, the process church as well as the gnostic church of christ lucifer (
https://web.archive.org/web/20210803234413/https://abglodge.org/blog/post-15/) - if anything christo-satanism makes more sense than what the majority of satanists do which is to simply inadvertently replicate magian morphology in one way or another without being conscious of this process
>>2948606>Don't you think that's a bit too fatalistic of an outlook?to truly change one's ethical character necessitates changing one's practical relation to the world. most people adopt various ideologies, but do very little in the way of practice. the ultimate materialist consequence of this is modern evangelical christianity where nominally they worship "god" but materially they really worship mammon
>>2949233honestly my problems with the tob is much like my problems with many anarchists (especially nihilistic and illegalist kinds) so the association is very much apt
>>2949233>Its an Anarchist current of pure negationSo exactly as I said, a belief in nothing.
If one believes in nothing, threy are a nihilist.
Trying to add conditions to the unconditional is a fallacy.
Anarch-ism is a condition, so nihilism isnt especially "anarchist".
>>2949244>authority of individual judgementAgain, a paradox. If individual judgement begins in the judgement of another, it is neither individual, nor a judgement, but is understanding. As I am discussing with the fellow above, nihilism cannot have its own belief system, so is in effect, not actually a belief, so is self-negating. One cannot "believe" in one's own individual judgement, if you get me. If I call myself an "individualist", I cease to be an individualist, etc.
>there is even less reason to declare that the "o9a" is "dead"Question: can something in the name of the o9a be qualified as not pertaining to the o9a, in actuality? Is there heresy? Yes, if you believe the apologia which comes out about it; "they weren't real followers", etc. It's an orthodoxy, like Satanism. What do Satanists say? The o9a isn't real Satanism, etc. It's pathetic. Just go to Church, already.
>hence i do think those other groups like the tob are revisionistsYou mean heretics. Those who betray the dogma. The orthodoxy.
Thus, one's "individual judgement" is not so individual, is it?
Eithrer a thing has conditions, or it does not.
>myatt's satanism was specifically against magian cultural morphology. Myatt is ignorant of reality if he doesn't see Dionysus in Christ.
>christo-satanismJesus (Revelation 22:16):
< I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star.”https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2022%3A16To me, Satan is not even evil, but is a tester of faith.
>>2949273>Again, a paradox.>The orthodoxy.i already made a distinction between orthodoxy and orthopraxy. there was the apparent permissibility of "individual judgement" because doxa was not the main point. tob does not only veer from doxa but also praxis
https://www.o9a.org/wp-content/uploads/o9a-individual-judgement-v5.pdf<[One of the] practical guidelines of the Order of the Nine Angles is that there is no morality – no judgement about what is right and what is wrong – but our own individual one, with that judgement born not from feelings nor from some reaction to some particular event, but from a detached, reasoned, reflexion arising from practical experience [emphasis added]. In short, from our own individual pathei-mathos, and the personal unique sinister weltanschauung that we develope from such practical experience, such reflexion, and such pathei-mathos.<The one exception regarding individual interpretation, and changing everything O9A, is the O9A Code of Kindred Honour. It is exempted because it is the Logos of the O9A - the unique perceiveration that distinguishes the O9A - and thus defines who is, and who is not, O9A. For to be O9A is to live by the O9A code and thus to manifest that logos by one's manner of livinghttps://lapisphilosophicus.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/code-of-kindred-honour/<We know our own kind by their deeds and their way of life [emphasis added]; that is through a personal knowing.as can be seen here what was emphasized here was more so a practical relation to the world, the ethos which was manifested. putting on the hat of a materialist anthropologist of religion, i would characterize the o9a by the practices which set it apart from other spiritualities. in religions that focus more on orthopraxy than orthodoxy, there is often no creed or canonical text and there is even variation in ritual and way of life within a reasonable limit which allows for organic evolution whilst maintaining cultural consistency. this is the feature of orthopraxy religions that "individual judgement" was meant to express. trying to see it through individualism or whatnot is just a poor reading. of course, many people took "individual judgement" in an individualistic or highly relativistic manner (leading to all sorts of problems which later niners point out, and some even end up critiquing the very idea), so i think their expression of the point was flawed
here is the hidweh project parallel to the "authority of individual judgement":
https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/<There has been a tendency with regards to religion and spirituality to overly epistemologize things in discussions (especially online). People place a lot of emphasis on "faith" and "knowledge" with regards to to the existence of various deities and the like. Religions then become a matter of believing a particular set of propositions. Of course, just from an anthropological approach, such a perspective limited. For instance, many Yazidi teachings are passed down aurally and there are a lot of variations in tellings. Despite a lack of standardized unitary doctrine, the Yazidi are still a unified religious group. What is more important for the individuation of their religion is the performance of various practices and the prohibitons placed on marrying outsiders. The latter is what lends it ethno-religious status. Something else that we find missing in an approach to religion which relies on the Understanding is the sense of religio. This pertains to sentiment and immersed participation in a certain way of life and engagement with various forms. Much of Shintoism, for instance, pertains to religio, and the concept of "kami" is illegible when taken out of this focus on engaged participation and respect.<From a phenomenological/hermeneutic perspective, we also must recognize that truth is not a uniform concept. There is a distinction to be made (following Heidegger) between truth qua veritas versus truth qua aletheia. The former merely concerns present-to-hand facts and propositions about the state of the world. The latter meanwhile concerns a revealing of different ways of relating to Being. The gods as mentioned elsewhere, are not only forces, but particular relatings to Being (and Hidweh is the particular relating involved when biokinesis is infused with religio, or the numinosity of creative evolution is contemplated). The existence of the gods is affirmed by theophanous practices which evinces them to the practitioner. This is something much subtler than a naive empirical or logical proof.https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/zine/lithp.html<The exact metaphysics (whether Hidweh is an actual entity, archetype, or symbol) is up in the air. One can hypothetically join us whilst being an “atheist” or “agnostic” metaphysically speaking. The commitments, to the culture and the transformation of the body, are more important.<Generally, we are open to a variety of different cosmological interpretations though certain tendencies such as vitalism are very influential. <What is important is dedication to the transformation of the flesh and contribution to the magickal current. The latter is done either through working with Hidweh, or through contributing art, practices, and concepts.https://hidwehproject.nekoweb.org/pages/phil/anacoord.html<what is foundational to my religious views does not consist in any particular metaphysical schema or dogma. rather what is essential to my thought is spiritual practice and a particular ontological suspicion. the suspicion in question is that the body itself is either an expression of mind or functions in a ‘mind-like’ (psychoid) way. michael levin talks about a ‘platonic space’ of morphological patterns which i identify with tiamat. there is also the understanding that the world is much more immanently interconnected than it might initially seem, and indeed there is some level of reality wherein there are no firm distinctions between things in the first place
>Myatt is ignorant of reality if he doesn't see Dionysus in Christ.christ is not just dionysus. he is a figure that is explicated within a magian ontology. it is the magian in christianity he is against, not the dionysian
>>2949334also quoting otonen:
<As is stated in other Order MSS, it is by practical experience that the Sinister Initiate discerns the status of the Dark Gods themselves and this can never really be passed on in writings. For it is often believed that the writings of others can bring wisdom and enlightenment by themselves, yet this also is an illusion of the Abyss. It is quite correct to assume that the writings of others may help to guide, but, as has been stated many times before, they are only a guide, not a substitute. It is only through direct personal Invokation that the Dark Gods can be understood.also this is a quote from here that can be brought up again too
<This is achieved by the novice remembering that they are involved in a seven-fold quest and accepting the advice given by the Master or Mistress who assigned the task. Both of these things some novices find difficult to do. The behaviour of the novice during this task is governed by specific guidelines - failure to observe the guidelines by an individual means the end of their noviciate as far as the Order is concernedhere it says "the Order" but one must remember masters and mistresses are meant to start their own kollektivs and pass down their knowledge so the transmissions of these guidelines is meant to be rather situated
concluding i think there was a miscommunication somewhere between what was likely desired in the idea of "individual judgement" and the actual result of things. ethos and general weltanschauung was meant to be more important than a rigid doctrine of beliefs and such one was supposed to have
>>2949334>trying to see it through individualism or whatnot is just a poor reading.From the text:
<[One of the] practical guidelines of the Order of the Nine Angles is that there is no morality – no judgement about what is right and what is wrong – but our own individual one […] our own individual pathei-mathoshttps://www.o9a.org/wp-content/uploads/o9a-individual-judgement-v5.pdfThis is the paradox. To first consider that morality is a matter of an individual judgement, is itself, an individual judgement. So, if one takes this judgement about judgement seriously, they deny their own individual judgement. It is not a Logos therefore, but an Illogos.
>many people took "individual judgement" in an individualistic or highly relativistic manner (leading to all sorts of problemsProblems for who? You are acting as a priest, not a practitioner.
If one's individual judgement is that individual judgement is bullshit, that is the sublime affirmation of a principle, by its self-negation. This is why all cliques and clans are degenerate. Even if you entered upon a Discordian circle, saying the "wrong" thing gets you excommunicated. My "reality tunnel" might be too problematic. So much for Chaos. As I say, Satanism, like all rebellion, is an orthodoxy. It is a rule-book. Like the egoist above us, even "nihilism" isn't allowed to actually be nihilistic. My critique in all this is to show you cannot escape duality. The only winning move is not to play. I don't support draining yourself into an idol either. God doesn't require our prayers. Before one postrates toward an object, one should really ask "why?"
>ontological suspicionRight, but are you also suspicious of ontological suspicion? What would it mean to negate the negation in this case? Is it possible? Both idealism and materialism are contradicted, propositionally; logically. The same way both rationalism and empiricism are false doctrines. We know, but how do we know? We are, but how are we? Can we say?
>it is the magian in christianity he is against, not the dionysianYou have to take symbols as they come.
Attempting to purify symbols leads to problems.
It leads to ahistorical, occult, syncretic nonsense.
>the writings of others may help to guideMy feeling is that the purpose of writing is to put an end to writing.
One day there will be a final book. A final word. That is its telos.
>ethos and general weltanschauung was meant to be more important than a rigid doctrine of beliefs and such one was supposed to haveBut the purpose of a thing is in what it does. If something "fails", is it not actually fulfilling its greater purpose? As we read in the Bible:
<ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto goodhttps://biblehub.com/genesis/50-20.htm<For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.https://biblehub.com/nkjv/isaiah/55.htmThis is Wyrd. As Nietzsche says, amor fati; we must love fate.
Or as Myatt says, pathei-mathos; learning through strife.
>>2948145no answers i guess
>>2949419>To first consider that morality is a matter of an individual judgement, is itself, an individual judgement.again it is not related to individualism or relativism. it is about the practice of not making judgements about others beyond one's personal knowing of them as opposed to a statement concerning metaethical doxa
>Problems for who?for anyone that now has to be associated with child rapists who clearly dont care about any numinous way of life maybe. carelessly attracting the attention of law enforcement agencies immediately breaks the code of kindred honour
>are you also suspicious of ontological suspicion?what i wrote had nothing to do with skepticism
>>2947462>i have a very particular perspective on ontology, metaphysics, and the occult and it is only by virtue of this that i take the ideas seriously at all. so for me i was able to extract wealth from the ideas but if you listen to >>2937269 (You) despite everything he read it doesnt seem like he was able to get much from itI haven't read much ona material.
In Britain the police can get shirty if the repair shop comes across such material on your computer, pedo fiction and such But when there were previous threads I looked at some of the websites that were mentioned. It seems to me that whatever particular bit of the ona that appeals to the curious, they could get it better elsewhere:
>theories about the acausal realm<Aristotle on the "unmoved mover" at the rim of the cosmos<maybe some medieval theology as well >Lovecraft-inspired philosophy <Graham Harman… speculative realism…>fiction exploring themes of cosmic evil <Bellknap- Long, The Hounds of Tindalos >trapezoidal sigil<Sisters of Mercy used a similar logo? form a goth band, kid's>freedom from the influence of Abrahamic religion <it's not so difficult, there are youtube lessons on learning Akkadian and Sumerian cuneiform, learning that really will rewire your mindI still don't buy this make it difficult to read to weed out the undesirables schtick. It seems to be very like some of the neo-reaction Catholics on twitter/X. They post deliberately difficult to understand stuff. But you read someone like Ed Feser, he sweats blood to make the difficult understandable. Why? he wants to stop readers going to hell. Will they otherwise? No. In early chapters of his books he gives good rundowns of proofs of divinity from antiquity. He says in later chapters he will prove how Catholicism in particular meets the proofs. But this, he doesn't do. He just describes the problems. Anyway the twitter tradcaths aren't about bumping up the numbers of the community of dead monks, saints, and living belivers . It's more of a political thing. To signal elitism. A bit like a Johnathan Bowden talk I saw on YouTube. He said not everyone has to be a nationalist. You just have to get enough in positions of power, and most people will go along with it.
But what do the really powerful need occultism for? If we end up in the Elon Musk's Martian salt mines it won't be because he's been playing the star game.
>>2949612>pedo fiction and suchthere was like one story like this on the fenrir zine. if you are not reading some tempel ov blood stuff you would have to try hard to come across any of that stuff. the main content is not to be found in the fiction stuff anyways
><Aristotle on the "unmoved mover" at the rim of the cosmos><maybe some medieval theology as well no.
>make it difficult to read to weed out the undesirables schtickthe important stuff is not particularly difficult to read. it is only the stupid sensationalist stuff that gets played up and is the most interesting to das Man
https://lapisphilosophicus.wordpress.com/about-2/ona-faq/labyrinthos-mythologicus/<Remember therefore that the ONA is a shapeshifting nexion, in the world of the mundanes, and presents as a confusing, dark, labyrinthine, satanic/non-satanic entity, and therefore does/does-not exist, never has existed, and is/is-not defunct; which is/is-not nazi; which was/is/never-was a honeytrap; whose written texts sometimes contradict each other; and is/was merely an urban legend. >>2949703if thats all you took from the quote you've been filtered
>>2950049(and not because of any obfuscation but that simply you cant read)
>>2949610>for anyone that now has to be associated with child rapistsYe shall know them by their fruits.
You can know the cause from the effect.
>clearly dont care about any numinous way of lifeThe numinous way is Myatt's own revision of the o9a after 1998.
He got what he wanted: David Copeland, then retreated into Islam.
Now we have many David Copelands. James Mason is the new Myatt.
>the code of kindred honourMyatt is a pathological liar. He has no honour.
>>2949612>They post deliberately difficult to understand stuffYes. It's a tragedy of style over substance.
>what do the really powerful need occultism for?To be fair, o9a isn't "occult".
The occult is Magian – literally, the Persian Magi are attributed as the bearers of magic, since it was the opinion of the Romans that magic was invented by Zoroaster. Interestingly, of course, the "three wise men" in the Nativity were Magi, astrologers, who found Christ by following the stars (esoterically, this refers to the Age of Pisces). The Magi are then initiating us to the Nazarene. From the time of Anton LaVey, Satanism has rejected all occultism because they see it as White Magic, including blood magic. Black Magic, as LaVey explains, is about manipulating pain. Further, the magician is counterposed to the sorcerer. The o9a promote practical sorcery, not magic, per se. In terms of traditions, the Sinister Tradition is also called the seven-fold way (7fw), which is essentially Hermeticism and Alchemy, per Jung. The task of the initiate is to presence acausal energy for the sake of cliology (aeonic sorcery) to influence history to the ends of Imperium. Like Marxism, it becomes a theory of history, which to the o9a, orients around great men, like artists, who sufficiently presence acausal power. The history of men is then the history of their culture. It takes the superstructure as being primary to things and not the base. This is because Myatt primarily draws from the writings of Oswald Spengler.
>>2950049>if thats all you took from the quote you've been filtered<filtered out, as a minnow-like mundane, unable to appreciate the value of the ona corpus There was a sales technique in California, in the 70s I think, a bit obscure but based on making things a bit difficult for the potential customer. The theory being that if you maybe a bit rude, or brusque, it will immediately get rid ,filter out, the waverers, the potential buyers who aren't really that keen. Since salesmen get paid on commission, and time spent talking to people who don't buy in the end is time wasted, it's more efficient. In itself, it's not that bad or manipulative an idea. You're less likely to get your own time wasted yourself listening to a saleman trying to get you to sign up to something you're not really that interested in. Anyway Miles Tomkin aka iggy semmelweis, Andrew Tate's associate, was trained in this, and he adapted it to form the basis of Tate's operation. So Tate would for example famously ask prospective cam models to bring chocolates to the initial meeting. Most women are going to tell him to fuck off, right? But the few who don't, if they are willing to bring him chocolates may well be willing to waggle their arse in front of the web cam for measly pay as well.
So I guess, yea, in a sense you're right, anyone looking at the ona stuff thinking a lot of it serms deliberately obscure, and what isn't you can get better elsewhere, so no I'm not going to bring the chocolates, is getting "filtered".
>>2950123>In terms of traditions, the Sinister Tradition is also called the seven-fold way (7fw), which is essentially Hermeticism and Alchemy, per Jung.So not laboratory alchemy, right?
The task of the initiate is to presence acausal energy for the sake of cliology (aeonic sorcery) to influence history to the ends of Imperium.
>because this seems not as testable. At least with the old alchemists, hired for example by Elizabeth I, low on gold to fund war with Spain and build her own Empire, they're either going to be able to pull it off, or they aren't. The Galactic Imperium does seem more of a dubious proposition.
>>2950139>laboratory alchemyNo. It's Jungian alchemy.
The "9 angles" refer to 9 stages of individuation:
(salt): 🜔(🜔) -> ☿(🜔) -> 🜍(🜔)
(mercury): 🜔(☿) -> ☿(☿) -> 🜍(☿)
(sulfur): 🜔(🜍) -> ☿(🜍) -> 🜍(🜍)
This is written of in the first o9a text, in 1974.
This is later symbolised by the passing into planetary realms.
These 9 realms are the 9 classic cosmic spheres of antiquity.
>The Galactic Imperium does seem more of a dubious proposition.To Myatt, it has already begun its development and will be finished by around the year 2,400 CE, so there's a long-term strategy in all this. The galactic imperium signifies the closure of the Western Aeon, or the Faustian aeon, with National Socialism as its supposed ethos.
>>2948145Nobody knows man, none of this shit makes any sense
Poland just had a mass shootout, some larper with a totenkopf on his helmet and a fully auto machine gun,
>>2950332Happened in France last week or week before too. These freaks are never happy, even when their guys are on an upward trend.
This shit loses all interests when you realize it's just a bunch of losers trying to be as edgy as possible
Like you genuinely think Attomwaffen believes in National Socialism? The Nazis were bad but they didn't LARP as nihilist satanist pedophiles, they genuinely thought they were the good guys
>>2950640Some nazis like Himmler were into some weird esoteric shit, and I'm not sure a lot would have considered themselves "good", more like "strong" and therefore deserving to cull the weak, purify the genepool etc. They didn't hide their genocidal enterprise for nothing, they knew it was messed up
>>2950652It's the same thing with NSBM. I saw some retard on /mu/ argue that NSBM is the peak of black metal because it's "supremely evil"
The Nazis didn't think they were evil though, that's kind of the whole point
>>2950653Exactly.
Today's Nazis would have been gassed by yesterday's Nazis. Lol.
>>2950640>they genuinely thought they were the good guysAnd yet they commited mass suicide when they were done. Curious.
>>2936391I don't wanna be that guy but this isn't an explicitly fascist movement, it was, but there are now left-leaning currents of o9a/764 - the point is explicitly nihilism now, I've come across groups that are "left-accelerationist" and wish to "bring about marxism through misanthropy"
>>2950772>Marxism through misanthropyMarx defines Communism as practical humanism.
Don't listen to juvenile idiots.
>>2950772>left-accelerationistThat's called right-wing misanthrope in common language
>>2950773He's a retard who just says stuff.
>>2950640>they genuinely thought they were the good guysthe nazis were fully aware what they were doing would be rightly seen as unforgivable by most people, they had no illusions they weren't the bad guys in every story other than porky's
>>2950780"Don't listen to juvenile idiots."
I'm not, its a mental illness collective, just saying that these movements depend ENTIRELY on aesthetic and some have co-opted leftist aesthetic
>>2950801>mental illnessmedicalisation reifies capitalist categories
just call them what they are; juvenile idiots
it's interesting how much o9a and tob influenced modern online edgelordism (soysphere, foodists, tcc, nlm)
>>2950631>These freaks are never happyOf course they're not, they're deeply sick and miserable and the more they get what they want the more that will get reinforced.
<armchair psychologist out Unique IPs: 76