Is Steven Universe liberal? I think it is because it propagates the notion that you can solve issues in society by talk no jutsu.
>>2537I really can't see a way for the show doing it right. Either you get the Crystal Gems applying their Protect Earth at All Costs policy fairly and are running about executing oil execs and destroying factory farms and stopping the colonization of the new world by European empires and generally being a super edgy, super OP version of Captain Planet and the Planeteers, or you get them teaching humans how to use fusion and bypassing the industrial era straight into Star Trek style utopia.
Either way, it can't fit with the show as it was. Which is the main reason I'd say the show was liberal.
>>2539I'd say the core liberalism is its inability to imagine another world and to become offended if such a possibility is suggested. The only alternative to modern day Earth that Steven Universe has is when they go to the moon palace and see the hologram of what the Empire would have done, where the Earth is turned into a productive center for the Empire.
Every other character is shocked because to the show this is horribly bad and in the show's logic Peridot is justifiably reprimanded and snubbed for supporting it.
That actually existing human civilization is on path to destroying itself and won't even have a starport as a legacy is totally verboten as subject matter. Nope! The way things are, which includes Greg driving a guzzler that belches out "whimsical" clouds of smoke and fast food restaurants and Stephen cheering about "animal byproducts" from animal agriculture, is literally perfect because it is just so quirky and fun!
>>2542More likely that Bismuth is wrecked because the bitch diamond realize that her cover would be blown if she stay along.
>>2533The show is fucking trash because of this. It holds the incredibly liberal ideals that oppressed people have no means to fight back against their oppressors and it will only take a ruling class member to save the savages.
Also did I mention that Rebecca Sugar specifically designed to the world so that both communism and fascism never exist so that the main system is just a woke liberal world?
>>2529>Is Steven Cringeverse liberalYes
>talk no jutsu1) No, that's not why its liberal
2) Leave Naruto out of this, at least there they tried to have a legitimate reason for talk no jutsu to work.
I'm going to repost my edited rant from /leftyweebpol/, so hold on to your butts.
It's id-pol trash with terrible sweat-shop animation, tuneless 'songs', infantile characters, and a nonsensical plot. It's just another cal-arts shit-fest:
Steven Universe is irredeemable garbage with shitty, lazy animation, inconsistent designs, a toxic fanbase of id-polers who make bronies look sane, tuneless 'songs', no story-boards, bad animation made in some Far-East sweatshop, ridiculous 'plot', anti-revolutionary liberalism, gender fluid rubbish etc. The list of everything wrong with Steven Universe could fill a book if one analyzed the whole show, except that you don't even need to examine the whole show because half the episodes are just the same thing rehashed repeatedly;
Steven or one of the gems has a first world problem, they whine about it, then something happens so the gems gather up to do some shit, then Steven tags along or otherwise gets shoe-horned into the episode's event then the gems fuse and do whatever and the problem is magically averted. No lessons are learned, Steven is special for no reason and gets OP powers for no reason (except muh half-breed) and remains the annoying infantile brat that he was at the beginning. The show is everything wrong with burger-land upped to 100 with the cast of characters that are thin-skinned, offended by everything but too lazy to change anything, and masochistically proud about it.
2 reviews on this show that deserve viewing regardless of your political differences with their makers.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlzl0gUdb3I-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RCL3ERdhhA>>2539>talk no jutsuYou literally don't understand the point of what talk no jutsu was if you're correlating it to this. You never saw this sort of blatant faggotry in Naruto. Naruto had its own dumb moments but never at this level of idiocy.
>Harry PotterHP has alotta problems that have been haggled over by the fandom for years, but this isn't one of them. Hell it's a specific plot-point of Harry Potter that talk and respect can't beat everything because it must be mutual and that requires a reformation of society. After Voldemort's defeat Wizarding society remained the same, the only difference being that an open magic fascist was dead, not that this solved the WW's problems. Harry Potter hate has become a dumb /leftypol/ band-wagon where newfags feel like they have to shove a jab at it in, even if they don't know Harry Potter at all.
>>2542Shattering the gems isn't murder. It's eternal torture (i-have-no-mouth) because the gems are still sentient and conscientious even though they're a pile of dust. Shattering a gem is sentencing it to an infinity of torture. It's a convenient way to make killing them into a truly horrible thing. All these people comparing this type of behavior to Che Geuvara are ignorant of who he was because he stated reluctance to use cruelty and death against his enemies except when necessary. The stupidest part of Bismuth's plan is that it's just shattering the diamonds' grunts and doing absolutely fuck-all against the diamonds themselves. What good would shattering the foot soldiers do? We know the diamonds don't care about them and most of them would have just been made to fight out of fear. You're essentially trying to fight the exploitative ruling class by killing the exploited.
>>2554>Avatar ends with them forming the equivalent to the United States after killing the dictatorAll of that is Korra stuff that wasn't part of ATLA until later comic retcons. That said Avatar didn't have a concrete political theme and was more about human interactions and natural balance than anything really political, though it dabbled in that with things like Fire-Nation Imperialism and the Dai Li. Korra was what was specifically politicized but I won't expand on that here.
>>2558They’ll just meme themselves into believing they’re descendants of gems.
>>2554On the subject of American fetishization. Code Geass might be the most egregious example where every single country became the United States [insert country name here] (even when it makes no fucking sense like Japan) under the system of an even worse UN. Somehow weebtards still try to paint the story as anti-imperialism when the villain main scheme is the anti-communist dog whistle of “making everyone apart of a hivemind/the same”.
https://codegeass.fandom.com/wiki/United_Federation_of_Nations >>2573It happened during the Crystal Gems' rebellion (so it wasn't Russia at the time).
Gems also blew up most of Australia and India then cut off part of Africa and super glued it to South America. I quit watching the show, so I have no idea why other than demonstrating that Gems can fuck things up when they feel like it.
>>2561avatar cucked out of killing tojo by introducing a fucking giant turtle ,gay and bluepilled , also muhh killing colonist(tbh jack was a jerk i am ok with how they handle it)
Korra was weird but semi-accurate to 1920s (amon was hitler btw ,he was literaly funded by a car bouj)
>>2579>avatar cucked out of killing tojo by introducing a fucking giant turtleThat was the very last 2 episodes, I think its tremendously unfair to judge the morals of the story by that alone given the entire story prior.
Also learn to write coherently MFW
>>2554Avatar is thoroughly steeped in an eastern mystic worldview. Korra is completely different and burgerfies everything.
>>2579The whole point of that arc was that Aang was being pressured to choose his avatar duties over his nearly wiped out culture, but he was determined to find a third option that would allow both. That's a much more radical lesson than "kill the bad guys because you gotta." The rest of the series has moments like that too where the characters find an inventive third option to an apparent dilemma. The show is anti Trolley Problem.
>>2584>reposted rant<calm down
Read carefully mate
>>2599> plow through people who in real life the argument could legitimately be made that they are "Just doing their job"See Nuremburg, "Just following orders" is not a legitimate defense. Star wars and the Gems are quite different seeing how the underlings of Diamonds almost physically cannot refuse their commands… as opposed to Storm Troopers.
>talk no jutsuYou keep using that phrase but I don't think you know what it means
>>2697>Storm troopers are poor prolesThe original storm troopers were clones of Jango Fett bred and made for war to the point where they were programmed with directives to kill the Jedi and subdue the populace. All storm troopers afterwards were either conscripts or taken from a young age. They were the elite.
>purposely miss targetssee pic
>>2703>conscripted as canon foddert.someonewhoknowsnothingaboutStarWarslore
This stupid shit started from the Disney Star Wars with Finn and the academy in Rebels. Storm Troopers aren't fucking ordinary conscripts, they are, canonically fanatics, the elites equivalent to their literal namesakes, the STORM TROOPERS of the German military. The tier higher than them is the dark troopers and other specialized units equivalent to the Waffen SS.
As pointed out
>>2705>>2707These aren't ordinary conscripts. The closest modern equivalent would be the USMC.
>the elite Russian and British armies of 1916<storm troopers are just like WW-1 conscripts!
Stop talking about this as if you know Star Wars. For a site that loves to talk shit about
muh liberalism you sure don't know much about the shit you're try talking about.
>>2718/sug/ thread on /co/ is cancer as shit. Nothing but coomers wanking on gems and retards screaming about liberal fake progressives without understanding the root cause.
It’s good to see somewhere you can discuss shit without being dog pile by /pol/tatoes.
>>2720>/sug/ thread on /co/ Not anymore, /sug/ is banned from /co/ onto /trash/ because they're so cancerous.
>>2724>The rest are complete utter trash<getaloadofthisguy.png
Actually read EU materials instead of taking your info from shitty youtuber opinions and forum wanks. There are myriads of great ideas and concepts in the EU other than "muh Thrawn"
>>2723>they were frequently portrayed as just fucked over conscripts as wellDepends on which part of the EU you're talking about. But you're not completely wrong, I'll give you that.
>Cade SkywalkerEyy my nigga
>>2732The Vong were an interesting concept and made the empire more than just "hurr le megalomaniac emperor!" They were fairly unique aliens too.
>>2731>makes the War out to be awful and pointless rather than fun like the TV showI would say the TV show was actually pretty damn gritty and have that same theme for a large portion of it.
>>2733didnt most of the super weapons were stolen by the CIS?
Also dark troopers are new canon shit
Anyway the only redpiled star wars groups were the CIS and CIS supporting rebels..
>>2734>most of the super weapons were stolen by the CIS?Not that I remember. If anything the CIS essentially acted as a weapon testing group, which were later assimilated into the Empire's forces… y'know, shit like the giant Ion-cannons and the first death star
>dark Troopers <nu canon
Dark Troopers have been a thing long before the Disney nuWars, that's part of why they were so hyped up during the teaser trailers of Rogue One and why they were so disappointing.
Honestly one of the best parts of EU IMO, is how they expanded on Luke's power and abilities as "the chosen one"
>>2736Newfag located
>>2734Made a Star Wars thread, lets move there
>>2737 https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/a897wt/bad_media_criticism_criticism_or_how_sarah_z_lied/ Fuck, this right here is a great example of why I fucking despise Breadtube and their shitty liberal grift, legit shitting on Lily Orchard’s epic takedown of SU because “Muh twaaaaans”.
I hate liberals more than I hate my fucking boss.
>>3000>Minerals are not rocks<A rock is any naturally occurring solid mass or aggregate of minerals or mineraloid matter. It is categorized by the minerals included, its chemical composition and the way in which it is formed.
Minerals are a kind of rock in rough terms and considering that toph was bending crystals and minerals within METAL… its not a stretch to say she can bend the gems easily, especially given her feats.
>>2998Saw a video doing the same thing and it's literally all irrelevant whataboutisms angry virtue-signaling and other mental gymnastics for the damage control. At least on 4chan /sug/-fags are honest in that they just want to fugg.
>>3002I honestly don’t even get why any adult would be into Steven Universe at this point unless they’re mentally stunted (so, Breadtube) or in it for Rule 34.
Fuck, honestly what pissed me off so much was that Orchard’s video was honestly pretty on point and literally the only defense these people have is “muh LGBT representation”
These were the same people saying you need to like the Disney Trilogy because it’s
supposedly diverse.
>>2529FUGGG :DDD
That shit is probably worse than furry culture
>>2561>You literally don't understand the point of what talk no jutsu was if you're correlating it to this. You never saw this sort of blatant faggotry in Naruto. Naruto had its own dumb moments but never at this level of idiocyJust wanna take this further and say Talk no Jutsu was actually great, a way for Naruto to confront his opponents as actual people and pit his philosophy against their own, a way for the protagonist to change others, himself, and proactively change the world around him.
It ain’t got shit on Steven crying bullshit where you stop space Nazis because you share some rock chromosomes with them. At least Naruto actually had to beat his opponents philosophically instead of this cry pity bullshit.
Video defending Talk no Jutsu to show what I mean, it was a decent storytelling mechanic:
https://youtu.be/gH3Sh3hRV-c >>3689>infinity genocideWut?
Why are all late 2010s cartoons shitshows?
The 2000s had great shows
And Gravity Falls was good
>>3691>Wut?The finale of Star vs. The Forces of Evil has the "heroine"
destroy magic, killing infinite numbers of sapient magical creatures in the process, and then merging an infinite number of parallel universes with earth, resulting in massive destruction and conflict. This is presented as a happy ending.
>Gravity Falls was goodAmen, which is of course why it's the shortest running of any of these shows, in spite of there being plenty more material in the sequel comics.
>>3692>The finale of Star vs. The Forces of EvilReminds me of what DC and Marvel have done before TBH
>>3691>Gravity FallsI found large portions of it to be annoying or mediocre, but the underlying story was interesting. I just can't get over the shitty art-style.
>>3692>>3694Tbh I just like the villain of Gravity Falls and the finale mostly
Will there ever be another Avatar you think? Originally I wanted to make a story kinda like that, but by now it’s just a brutal war is hell story that’s never gonna be a cartoon if it’s ever even made and it’s just about capitalism and the world wars anyway, so…
>>3695>Will there ever be another Avatar you think?Probably not before we have communism. Nickelodeon definitely won't do it. They've turned too hard into being greedy capitalists and now all they have is Spongebob. Cartoon Network might fund something bold but they tend to stick with low budget Calarts stuff. Netflix is more open to experiment, but they cancel shit all the time for lack of views.
>>3687Didn't Adventure Time do this sort of thing too?
>>3698Yes
Why have cartoons become ideologically fucked, why would you ever tell kids this shit?
At least Regular Show had an okay ending
>>3694>I just can't get over the shitty art-styleIt's such a shame the otherwise outstanding show was saddled with Calarts style considering that, style aside, the visual design had such tremendous care poured into it.
I had the same problem with later DCAU stuff. Even as early as the later seasons of BTAS, the once-beautiful art deco artstyle was getting annoyingly simplistic due to budget cuts, by the time of JLU it was practically abstract cubism.
>>3698>Netflix is more open to experimentThey are the ones doing another show by a different group of A:tLA alumni, The Dragon Prince. I haven't seen it out of weariness from Korra, but the vague secondhand impression I've gotten is that it's bland and lacking passion.
>>3695>Will there ever be another Avatar Probably, but not anytime soon. Or if soon, then not wildly wellknown.
> I wanted to make a story kinda like that, but by now it’s just a brutal war is hell storyYou write this out yet? What's it called?
>it’s just about capitalism and the world warsHonestly if you're having trouble then you might want to scrap it. The great thing about Avatar was that ideology was never on the forefront and the main story was simple
Aang is the [child of prophecy] who must save the world by defeating the Demon King… I mean the Fire Lord and restore balance with the help of his friends as he learns to master his powers. Everything else, such as ideological clashes, branch off of that or builds across it. Korra puts ideological differences on the forefront, and while that can be done and has potential, the biased liberalism of Brike means that it loses focus for the sake of bias.
>>3699>why would you ever tell kids this shitBrainwashing kids is easier than adults. A kid watching shit like The Loud House will think it and its messages are great, when its garbage compared to ATLA.
>>3700> it's bland and lacking passionDragon Prince isn't terrible, it just has a lot of wasted potential, and early animation was poor. It's like RWBY in that regard.
>the visual design had such tremendous care poured into it.For Gravity Falls, yeah, the backgrounds were honestly well detailed and had an earthy feel. Not the best, but definitely good for a cartoon TV show.
>>3698>artoon Network might fund something boldNot since Disney took their asses. CN's days of being creative were over since things like TCW and Transformers: Prime stopped airing.
>>3712Don’t have a title yet, but my story isn’t a kid’s story, it’s pretty graphic and the main through-line is political intrigue and revolution. One of the inspirations is the comic book Über.
Really the only similarity to Avatar is elemental magic
>>3715There are plenty of non-kids story that don't use graphic description. Moreover too much political intrigue gets dry and boring. If you want an example of a good adult fiction with such a plot I suggest Заговор Аквитаний.
Seriously, try not to go too far with graphic description because it becomes over-packed.
>>3724>le beanface isn't REEL!!!fuck off tumblrite.
Cal Arts is what Toonboom is called because thats where it originates from, because the taught "style" changes, starting from disney-princessesque style, to a more big-eyes animu style and denigrating into beanhead style with noodle arms.
>>3728Gumball's main charactrs are toonboom, however their unique mix of art styles and meta plots make it better.
GFalls has good animation even if the style itself is of a poor type, and its story makes it intrigueing for children without resorting to shitty eye-candy.
>>3727> just wanted to do a world akin to the Interwar PeriodThere is something akin to that on deviantart somewhere. This guy made a bunch of elfs and other fantasy humanoids as Bolshevik revolutionaries with steam/diesel-punk equipment. I can't find it anymore, but sounds similar.
>>3699Regular show was actually about breaking up the monotony of manual labor alienation. Way better than the other shows.
Most cartoons being ideologically fucked is just like everything in capitalism: cultural hegemony. Animation schools today are about training people to be the best wage slave ever with no creativity. The plot and art style are all controlled within focus groups and profit driven executives. A disease that now also infecting the eastern animation industry and to a lesser extent the comics. It’s different from the subsidized animations of the Soviet Union where there were no deadlines and the grants are given by community culture centers.
It’s a huge point where /co/fags ACTUALLY agree with us and a facet that we never use to agitate them. That and their discussion about
monopoly in comic distribution.
>>3715>ÜberMan that book went to shit after Gillen killed based Stalin and sucked off Churchill.
>>3730The book has Churchill die before any other world leader and later on they say he’s a monster and directly reference the Bengal famine. Stalin is the very last world leader to die, he dies even after Truman does.
It was pretty cringe how they killed him off tho, ngl, they tried to make it seem like he was bad for ordering a hit on Maria but she’s crazy bitch and most of what he does seems reasonable.
>>2998I don't get who's supposed to be "in the wrong" here. Everyone involved sounds like a fucking retard, from the bitch making a 2 hour rant on a kids show, the breadtube bitch complaining about said review to the redditors in your link.
Kiwi farms tier levels of autism
>>3731Seriously Stalin did the least wrong in that book. He actually foresaw Katyusha’s superhuman feudalistic plans from the start and tried everything to stop it.
But now since publisher went bankrupt at least we will never have to see the shitty future Gilles envisioned for the world.
>>3743I’m truly baffled to think that these people used to be considered based here. Christ on a bike.
>>3744>trans>native american<edgiest on derptube
Not that surprising really.
I'll take a minute to return on topic and explain why Steven Universe is liberal garbage because I think there is more things people aren't touching on. I will do this by comparing to a similar but better show, and one that directly inspired Rebecca Sugar: Revolutionary Girl Utena.
Revolutionary Girl Utena is a story about a girl named Utena Tenjou (the girl in pink) whom parents died from when they were young, receives a ring from a prince who promises to reunite with her one day. This inspires her to become a "prince" herself. One day, she gets dragged into a duel due to the ring she has over a girl named Anthy Himemiya (the girl with purple hair). She is the "rose bride" who has the power to "revolutionize the world". She wins and the rest of the show is Utena fighting the student council who wants to use Anthy for their own means while Utena wants to free Anthy from being the rose bride.
Anyone familiar with Steven Universe already see the similarities in both art and themes. Utena is a soaked in metaphor, like Steven Universe, on the contradictions on growing into an adult and reconciling them. The student council desires to escape the restrictions and embarrassment of childhood but, at the same time, the trauma of childhood prevents them from ever truly becoming adults. Utena believes she's fighting for everyone's freedom but we have an entire arc dedicated to explaining why Utena means of achieving freedom traps her in the system she seeks to end. Anthy is someone who is valued because she can "revolutionize the world" but her power comes from what she represents, not who she is, which is why she is treated like trash. This entire show is about Utena reconciling these contradictions, producing something greater from them, and rejecting the regressive, idealist notion of adulthood/society, giving herself the power to change the world. Some of you already realize that this sounds like the product of Hegelian dialectical thought, and I kinda think it is. Too bad Rebecca didn't carry this aspect to Steven Universe, only duels and gay girls.
Now let us talk about Steven Universe. Rebecca is doing the opposite of what Utena writers' did. Rebecca created a platonic circle of what is good and bad but constantly creates content that forces her to violate that morality.
For example, Bismuth talks about how the diamonds destroyed their friends and they should rightfully kill those fuckers for doing that. Steven uses "just as bad as the diamonds", bubbled her, and learns later on that Rose did shatter Pink Diamond. For a second, the audience realize that our pure and perfect Rose violated her own creed, something she imprisoned a gem for doing. We think for a second that maybe something happened that forced Rose to change, a contradiction that she had to reconcile in order to protect what is important to her. I also note in the same episode, this exact same thing happens to Steven and he is forced to reconsider what is good or bad.
"Lol, nope. Rose was pink diamond the whole time. She faked her shattering. See kids, she didn't kill anybody. Now, Steven, run along and make friends with the space tyran- I mean your family". Here, Rebecca stays within the confines of her perfect morality but, in process, creates a dangerous implication about Rose. She had the power the entire time to stop the war, tell her sisters what she really thinks, and stop thousands of gems from being corrupted. Instead on taking this fight to other colonies to avenge her comrades, she spent thousands of years having sex of humans and Pearl, met a dude she liked and had a kid that has to fix all of her problems. Rebecca is saying it's okay to torture thousands of gems, produce an unspeakable amount of problems for your son to solve because killing the three who are responsible for all this makes you "just as bad as them". Jesus, this is horrible lesson to teach kids.
Two things happened here. One, Rose who was given a chance for beliefs to grow and change dynamically is rewritten back into perfect person as to not contradict what Rebecca believes. Two, in the process, Rebecca created more contradictions that she just ignores or has to rewrite the morality of the show into a more idealistic, infantile nature to justify. This happens ad infinitum until world-destroying diamonds can be defeated by saying the equivalent of "no u".
This is why Steven Universe is the liberal abomination that it is and why it's celebrated as such. It reinforces every idea breadtubers have about their political beliefs. Their political beliefs are already perfect as they already are, and any attempt to change them is to challenge their 400+ IQ intelligence. You can have long speeches condemning people for being bad but never challenge the system that makes people bad (because they most likely benefit from it). If you do try to challenge the system, you're a crazy radical that deserves to be imprisoned forever or die. The real heroes are the ones who complain a lot and ultimately change nothing, basically every liberal out there.
>>3758For anyone that hasn't seen Utena, it should also be noted that the worldbuilding is extremely vague, silly to the point it's almost dreamlike, and the philosophical elements are conveyed directly by exposition for lack of anything concrete the audience can contrast them against.
This oddly threadbare style is IMHO
aside from low animation budget due in no small part to its reference toward live stageplays of the Takarazuka Revue theater company
Needless to say, this was also slavishly mimed by SU, to its detriment as a coherent story.
>>3760Sugar's idea of world building was to put rearrange some continents and say WW2 never happened with no real elaboration.
I don't think it was deliberately bad in that respect, I think it was just bad because the world of Steven Universe can't have conflicts, only misunderstandings. There can be no possibility of perspectives which are totally irreconcilable.
>>3758Yeah I've noticed this too. Modern animators are weebs that want to make "western anime" but without any of the actual things that make anime good.
Kinda like how StarVs tried to ape Magical Girls and Sailor Moon but only with superficial level shit like dresses and transformations. Same shit with OK KO and shonen anime.
>>3762> say WW2 never happened with no real elaborationYet somehow Russia has a massive hole in it.
>>3764That's been the consensus since tumblr became a popular place for radlibs
>>3739>2 hour rantBecause that's what their youtube channel is about. And at the very least it acts as a decent dissection of why a show is shit and shouldn't be watched by impressionable children.
>>3725I never said that the beanface or "Cal Arts style" doesn't exist, nor did I say that CalArts and other such art schools aren't making useless tumblrite drones that only know how to follow a certain standard that makes things easier to animate so that they can work at the big TV cartoon studios immediately, instead of making true artists that can animate anything.
It's just another animation trend and the trendy style changes every decade or two,
not all cartoons on TV follow the trend, and better 2D animation is certainly [b]not[/b] dying because there's a new cheap industry standard and a few shitty mainstream cartoons. But even then not all shows that use said style execute it in the same way; some do it better than others, and the style is by no objective means indicative of the series' quality (basically what
>>3728 said). It's the knee-jerk reaction to the "beanface" that I'm tired of.
>>4003>It's just another animation trendIt's a trend that has been sticking for 10 years at least and is abhorrent and indicative of the further loss of quality in cartoons of the following decades… in the USA, where most popular cartoons are made.
>not all cartoons on TV follow the trendAnd they usually suffer for it. Gumball while experimental and interesting in parts, still had its MAIN characters use the same toonboom format.
>better 2D animation is certainly not dyingIt is because its not being passed down in easily accessible public circles, see pic 2
> style is by no objective means indicative of the series' qualityIt is important however, its like fanfiction. the idea and phrases may be good, but terrible grammar and line-spacing make it hard to read.
>the knee-jerk reaction to the "beanface" that I'm tired of.It isn't kneejerk at all, at least not for me, not to mention people in the thread just shat on the art-style in passing. If anything
>>3724 feels like a kneejerk reaction to the mention of shitty artstyle.
So Rebecca Sugar has finally addressed the Diamond Hitler shitshow saying that Steven let them live because He's found his identity (after changing into a penis monster and other things).
>BUT THEY ARE FIXING IT. They only thought they were doing the right thing!<Hitler only thought he was doing what's best for Germany, but now that we've captured him there's no need to punish him. He's reformed now and will do better
Yeah, try to fix the countless planets destroyed by the mining of resources and with them countless organic species Not to mention Diamonds can still do whatever they want since Earth's revolution didn't change in any way the existent hierarchy
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurnWhere is it though? The Diamonds shouldn't even be able to relate to ANY of what Steven is saying, the gems clearly have a much different understanding of emotion and society and thus the emotional appeal of a half-breed child ought to be worth jack-shit to a people who have spent millenia conquering and strip-mining the galaxy.
>But they're undoing the damageWith asspulled powers that make no action have any consequences because "haha everything can be fix'd!"
>"B-but it's out of Steven's character for him to punish the Diamond Authority!"Who says that Steven should be the sole judge of what's right and wrong? I'm pretty sure that they're are plenty of vengeful individuals who would love to put the space hitlers on the chopping block.
Honestly look at their shit:
>Killed many planets worth of people>Yellow Diamond combined a bunch of Gems and stuck them in the middle of a planet>all the Diamonds ruled with iron fists like fascist dictatorsActions speak louder than words; nothing Rebecca says changes their actions
Honestly you'd think it was a joke until you see what "fans" say about it.
Steven Universe fans didn't want a joke about Hitler being the good guy, they actually wanted Hitler to be the good guy for real, but also they wanted Hitler to be a pretty (((girl))) who is also genderfluid pan demi gray cock-kin.
I feel like they were also trying to pull a "Naruto v Nagato" moment… except the whole reason Nagato has his god complex is his childhood trauma and inability to save his friend's death and failure at keeping on the path to peace making him a fallen hero and a mirror to Naruto. His ability to fix his latest mistakes comes at a cost and is part of his literal god powers and are not all-powerful (people still injured, Konoha still destroyed, Akatsuki still exists).
>>4035http://io9.com/steven-universe-is-a-show-about-fantasys-love-affair-1458060916But we won't necessarily see that many iconic villains on Steven Universe, says Sugar — the Gems aren't dealing with a particular person, but something "bigger than that." There's not "really a singular enemy." Instead, the conflict will be within the group, and it'll be about Steven figuring out what's right.More here:
https://www.vulture.com/2020/03/steven-universe-future-finale-rebecca-sugar.html>>4034>some mistakesThe entire thing was a mistake. For all the pretty, nice words Rebecca says in her interviews, it doesn't really show in SU at all, or is a shallow attempt at being deep.
>>4045I can't speak for everyone but I've always acknowledged that it's not super deep and that it's flawed in many ways. For me it's always been about shallow escapism. It's a colorful and charming distraction from the horrors of my everyday life. I've seen many SU threads on /co/ and most of the fans I meet there are candid about the show's flaws too, so at least there people don't make it out to be something it's not.
Peridot is the best gem.
>>3687>>3688>>3689>>3691Decent video on why Star is shite for reasons other than its horrendous finale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRa3C9F_EY>>3348>nobody noticed because the fascist main character was a bisexual brown woman.People noticed, they just got called racists or butthurt.
>>4392>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRa3C9F_EYgoddamn this SUCKS
he makes some joke about obama being a "diversity hire" and its so unironic conservative boomer humor it makes me want to put a gun in my mouth.
You know its fine to be a racist, fascist, whatever. As long as you're consequent in your thinking, that's all I ask. Someone needs to tell this guy that he has to choose between being an epic sjw troll OR a 20 year old that watches and discourses gay baby cartoons about a fairy princess. YOU CANT DO BOTH. They contradict one another. Either be trad and stop watching gay baby shows or stop pretending to have political opinions. Fuck, that sincere obama boomer joke is going to haunt me for week now. Fuck this guy.
>>2551Yeah, I always found the Hitler comparisons kind of vague and tenuous. The only basis for it is that the Diamonds are also authoritarian rulers but they're not that comparable outside of that. For one thing, the Diamonds would be right-wing traditionalists/reactionaries rather than right-wing radicals (like what fascists are, as they want to "reform" society rather than regress back in time or restore their country's monarchy). The gem empire is a weird theocratic monarchy ruled over by a triumvirate of God-like beings. They're definitely evil but they're aloof and detached in a solipsistic way in that the pain of their tiny, insect-like subjects is lost on them, whereas Hitler was malicious from the get-go. The NSDAP's goal was always genocide.
I have a lot of issues with the show's writing but I don't think convincing the Diamonds to stop being evil was a bad story angle to pursue. Realistically speaking, what else could Steven do under the circumstances? How feasible is it to try killing them? The Diamonds are literal Gods and they'd probably be even more unstoppable if they fused into some Shiva-esque cosmic destroyer. Even if he successfully iced them without accidentally getting the human race destroyed, the millions of fanatical and brainwashed gems would be mortified by this and view the Diamonds as martyrs. If they were hesitant about hearing the CG's out before then this would torpedo any chances of reconciliation. The subsequent civil war between the resurgent CG's and the loyalists would be even more brutal than the Earth uprising, only this time it would span across hundreds of systems and would drag on for centuries (if not millennia).
People making the Hitler comparison fail to realize that this isn't like the Nuremberg trials. You can't try Nyarlethotep and hang him for his crimes. Steven using his personal connection with the Diamonds to talk them down was not just the most pragmatic option but the only option that wouldn't result in ultra-WW2 in space.
>>4395>unironic conservative boomer humor<muh boomers
good god the meme is dead. We get it you're edgy hipsters who hate dad-jokes and are alienated from prior generations because of how toxic this society is. Great for you, get over it.
>YOU CANT DO BOTHNigga who cares, that wasn't the point of the video.
>that sincere obama boomer joke is going to haunt me for week nowIf you're that pathetic, then you deserve the cringe you felt.
>>4394>point is violence doesn't solve long term problemsThat's what Rebecca claims and what they sometimes say, yet the show does not demonstrate this idea.
>>4398>Diamonds has shown to be consistently unawareThey are aware, they just see non-diamonds as sub-beings who are unconcerning. Hitler was unconcerned for jews on a human level and as likely unaware of the personal details of the suffering caused by the Holocaust, and thus was not conscious of the inhumanity of it. That's why he did such a horrendous thing so casually. White diamond calling Steven 'Pink' is just the same as Hitler labelling all his enemies as Jew Bolsheviks indiscriminately.
>they're childrenNo, no they aren't. This is like calling Cthulthu a child.
>Little Homeworld is what communism will look like No, blow off
>>4412>they just see non-diamonds as sub-beings who are unconcerning.If that were true, they wouldn't have been so mean to Pink and each other.
>Hitler was unconcerned for jews on a human level and as likely unaware of the personal details of the suffering caused by the Holocaust, and thus was not conscious of the inhumanity of itYou are missing the point. Hilter knew that the jews will suffer, he just couldn't care less. The Diamonds were practically unable to care or know that the things they were doing was causing suffering until Steven talked to.
>White diamond calling Steven 'Pink' is just the same as Hitler labelling all his enemies as Jew Bolsheviks indiscriminately. FFS This is becoming ridiculous. Pink/Starlight was a name of affection for Steven. White didn't know Pink was really dead until the very end.
>This is like calling Cthulthu a child. Sure why not?
>No, blow offProve me wrong.
>>4006>It's a trend that has been sticking for 10 years at leastI'd say that's pretty normal.
>and is abhorrentsubjective
>and indicative of the further loss of quality in cartoons of the following decades…>see pic 2"quality" according to what standards? And if that's true then cartoons will get better as people both in the audience and the industry notice and put in effort to bring back good quality. There's already been, for example, increasing interest in receiving frame-by-frame hand drawn animation (of which an example is Steven Universe along with other "Toonboom" cartoons), so while this generation has had its downsides (some more subjective than others), there have been some improvements (or attempts at it). People and creators
are acknowledging that tradition and knowledge are being lost.
>in the USA, where most popular cartoons are made. If that was really important your first pic wouldn't look like that.
By the way, what a way to cherry-pick and generalize at the same time: the American side has only the current most popular cartoons by the biggest networks CN and Disney. Other than the fact that visually they only vaguely share some characteristics (most notably colorful bright palettes and lack of shading), they're not all the same genre and for the same demographic, not to mention that plot-wise they all vary in quality. Again, in this pic they only included CN and Disney's "current" stuff (they also include Adventure Time but suspiciously leave Regular Show out; basically shows that animation snobs enjoy shitting on).
On the "foreign" side, some of those animations are movies. Some are not aimed at children like most American cartoons are. There's a CGI series in there, for fuck's sake, why is there no equivalent on the American side when there are some recent or current CGI shows and an infinite supply of movies from the US? Whoever made this picture and those who use it to prove some point are completely ignoring the fact that each country has its generic ass style. Some are more cancerous than others, but there's always some standard that persists for years. La leyenda de las momias (one of the latest in a series of animated films that began in 2007)? It's also clear to me that they didn't actually see the goddamn thing, as that's just the poster. The actual movie's animation looks just like a Disney show or worse (they use tweening; I think the studio abandoned frame-by-frame a long time ago, and most of what they've been producing since then looks as shitty if not worse). A peek at other cartoons at least in the case of Mexico should reveal to you that they're not much better than Americans. In fact, it only shows the level of cherry-picking they did as there's virtually no Mexican animated series right now. Except probably just Villainous, what little animation there is, is just Flash and CGI, and half of it looks like utter shit, but of course they didn't use those as examples. In Japan, animation that is truly aimed at kids (which would be equivalent to the US presented here) is extremely formulaic and shallow (plot-wise, and you can include Miraculous Ladybug in this), and even though the drawings are "good" (and full of animation errors), the style is also incredibly generic. Better anime is actually aimed at older audiences and the more mature and artsy it is, the less profitable it is (wow, just like in the US!) Your Name, and to a lesser extent A Silent Voice, were exceptional cases in which a non-Ghibli Japanese animated movie got popular outside of the anime fanbase (of course, the image completely ignores American animated movies including obscure and better ones). Malo Korrigan is from the early 2000s… I'm getting the feeling that you've just been trolling this whole time. Nobody that knows what they're talking about would use that pic or the point it sloppily tries to make as an argument.
All in all it's evident and natural that these "Toon Boom" cartoons are just experimenting. Many of them trying to revive frame-by-frame hand-drawn animation and trying to provide more complex and mature stories with a message (though not all of them) while staying funny and kid-friendly. They don't always succeed because they try to do everything at the same time, when traditionally you can only have one or the other in American cartoons, and stories that aren't full-on drama/action or aimed at adults with serious themes were typically comedy and very episodic. Cartoons won't get worse just because there was a period where some Tumblrites tried to do something new in terms of writing and the drawings got rounder and brighter.
>>4463> they wouldn't have been so mean to Pink and each other. Nope. Pink DIAMOND and the others were still one of them, even if estranged. A cat doesn't stop being a biological cat if it starts defending mice does it?
>>4463> Hilter knew that the jews will suffer, he just couldn't care lessNo, he did not. He saw their suffering as something comparable to the struggles of an animal. Read The Untermensch, it outright describes subhumans (such as jews and slavs) as soul-less imitations of humans who go through the same motions as people, emulating pain or emotion, but not really feeling it. This is exactly how the Diamongs view other organisms, except more detatched because of the galactic scale of things annd utter detachment from getting their own hands dirty.
>Pink/Starlight was a name of affection for Steven.Good god are yo really this deluded?
>why not<t.neverreadLovecraft
>prove me wrongProve what wrong? Your entire circular apologetics?
>unable to care or know that the things they were doing was causing suffering<until Steven
Therein lies the problem. If they are so detached due to being so out of touch and NON-HUMAN they cannot emulate or understand that emotional spectrum from the talk of what amounts to a Human with OP Hax. This is a point of discussion used numerous times in Star Trek when meeting beings that were non-human entities and thus could not understand the motivations and emotions of humans, just as the human(oids) of Star Trek could not understand their motivations and emotions. This is the reason why I dismissed the "talk no jutsu" equivalency, the reason Naruto could do that was because, in the end, his opponents were human too and felt the same emotions and pain, and that on a base level that connects every human of past, present and future. Steven (if assumed more human than gem given his halfbreed status and human upbringing) literally has no way to connect to the Diamonds at all, or their motivations because from the human standpoint they are utter sociopaths, because they and their reasoning are outside of the realm of humanity, thus making their actions comparable to an unaware child. HOWEVER this is not the case because
A) Steven DOES connect to them, meaning that they DO have a level of understanding comparable to humans
B) Pink's actions and opposition to the other Diamonds on grounds of their actions being wrong, means that they can feel things and are somewhat aware
This means that they were aware of the consequences, and knew what such actions would invoke were it used against them and simply chose to view the life-forms they affected as sub-intelligences whose petty struggles and emotions were mere emulation.
>>4471>subjective<being lazy and promoting low-quality story-writing and political messages en masse is only "subjectively" wrong
Ok fag
>according to what standardsOh and here comes the "art is subjective" faggotry.
>if that's true then cartoons will get better as people both in the audience and the industry noticeAh yes because capitalism and monopolies won't just force through shit products. As explained.
A) The people who will notice the difference cannot make impact because against corporate monopoly not boycott will do anything, as numerous examples have shown for numerous products of the past decades
B) The Children who see this will see this level of crappy quality as standard and disregard actual quality as being necessary, because children below the age of 12 cannot view things like this objectively.
>an example is Steven Universe along with other "Toonboom" cartoons<handdrawn
You really don't know anything do you?
Steven universe is not actually hand animated, if it were, it wouldn't look in the rubbery fashion it is. Sending poorly done ideas to be made in some Thai-sweatshop studio is not legitimate.
>People and creators are acknowledgingThey have been acknowledging it for a decade and nothing is changing
>there have been some improvementsAll improvements made are due to technological advancement, something that in no way excuses the shitstyle
>If that was really important your first pic wouldn't look like thatYou're kidding right? All of the shows from the USA DOMINATE the market and push out any of the others out as unprofitable in comparison.
> they only vaguely share some characteristicsHaving slightly different curvatures for the beanface or other rounded "designs" is not vague at all. They're all the same shapeless rubbish with only 3 layers of animation most of which is on loop. Its like shitty flash-animation from the early days of newgrounds.
>they're not all the same genreOutside of Gravity falls they are almost all exclusively goofy color-noise comedy focused with dumb liberal idpol inserted for plot. Its like jangling plastic toys on a keychain in front of a baby while reciting a liberal-feminist gender-essay.
>Leave Regular ShowBecause Regular show, while not my cup of tea clearly uses a drastically different art-style. There is no beanface and the 'style' has plenty of detail and some shading that gives it more dimension. Similar to Gumball actually.
>when there are some recent or current CGI showsClone Wars was revived recently and is, like many other actually decent CGI in the USA, a relic of late 2000s animation along the lines of Transformers Prime. Moreover they are the exception not the rule. Pixar is also unique as it is a nearly independent part of Disney (even then a decline in quality is starting to show). Disney movies are not the topic of discussion, as the budget of 1 film is larger than the collective budget of all the pictured animations.
>LadybugWhile there are animation errors, Ladybug has a lot of good quality in it and in both plot and style blows away a lot of competition. Its not great, but certainly better than SU, StarVFE, Loud House or any other downright indefensible garbage.
>I'm getting the feeling that you've just been trolling this whole timeThe only feeling I'm getting is that you don't pay attention
>some of those animations are moviesSo are several of the USA side that's irrellevant given the point of contention and comparison. You're nitpicking t this point.
>just experimentingNo, they aren't and that is the entire problem. They are being used as the go-to for animation studios in the USA to mass produce shit that is atrocious in every way from the forced liberal politics, to the lazy art-style to the rubbery animation. It's lazy crap. Experimenting is what we get with Gumball.
>provide more complex and mature stories with a messageInserting politics =/= automatically mature and complex, nor is complexity always a good thing.
Mighty Max, a cheap toy-based 80s show with cheesy dialogues and good animation was more complex and mature than anything from Steven Universe.
>while staying funny and kid-friendly.You can't do that, otherwise the tonal shift becomes downright bipolar to the point where the show's message is trashed. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
A show like Clone Wars or Avatar the Last Airbender had humor and jokes, but it put them in appropriate scenes. How retarded would it have been to have Aang see the corpse of Monk Giatzo and then Sokka makes a comment about no meat again. Except becuse they all look like rubber caricatures, the impact of a skeletal corpse surrounded by death firebenders would lack the impact and thus make the "joke" less horrendous unless you think about it for more than a second. But because these kinds of toonboom shows hop around from scene to scene like a monkey on Crack, you don't have time to think, just absorb this eye-candy kid, turn your brain off!
>Cartoons won't get worse just because there was a period where some Tumblrites tried to do somethingYou are very naive and I envy that… the near future is dim my friend, because LSC is a bitch. Honstly toons are going through the same shit as anime - a million garbage shows with some good ones - for the past several years.
>>4532>Nope. Pink DIAMOND and the others were still one of them, even if estranged. A cat doesn't stop being a biological cat if it starts defending mice does it? That is not an argument. All four diamonds were mean or insensitive to each other in their own ways, Pink included with temper tanturm and fake assassination. You haven't disprove anything, just insisting things to be true coz you said so.
>This is exactly how the Diamongs view other organisms, except more detatched because of the galactic scale of things annd utter detachment from getting their own hands dirty. No they did not, they literally could not even conceive of human as a fellow organisms. Pink didn't know humans could grow even spending thousands of year on Earth. That is the biggest difference between Hilter and Diamonds. The former constantly degrade other races as subhuman, but the latter did not perceive humans as beings like gems. Or even their fellow like themselves
>Good god are yo really this deluded?Are you seriously implying that White didn't treat Steven as Pink and like a mother dealing with a rowdy child that she still loves?
>t.neverreadLovecraftClearly you haven't if you think Cthulhu is some malevolent being.
>Prove what wrong? Your entire circular apologetics?Rich coming from the one whose counterarguments are nothing but "nuh uh"
>This means that they were aware of the consequences, and knew what such actions would invoke were it used against them and simply chose to view the life-forms they affected as sub-intelligences whose petty struggles and emotions were mere emulation.Are you like autistic? They weren't aware of the consequences until Steven made them aware. That is the whole point of the ending. Steven is the bridge to help them understands that humans are like gems and gems are like them. Just because beings or aliens do not understand humans doesn't mean they cannot do so.
>>4532Who is that woman pointing that gun?
She's got great axilla
>>4533>That is not an argumentYes it is. You keep stating that they're different yet can't seem to make up your mind as to whom they can understand or not. If Pink Diamond was like them and reached a level of empathy for the suffering they caused, it stands to reason that the other Diamonds - adults of their race and 'leaders/rulers' would be aware as well and simply be uncaring.
> All four diamonds were mean or insensitive to each other in their own waysA child can bully its sibling, that does not mean they do not care for them. This applies to adults as well.
>You haven't disprove anythinYou haven't PROVEN anything to begin with, just made an asinine apologism for a race of imperial space faggots.
>just insistingI used a logical argument because Rebecca and the show have nothing concrete (no data-books or actual explanation) and cannot put most of its ideas into a story to save her life, outside of a contradictive "violence bad"
>No they did not<could not even conceive of human as a fellow organisms
That's literally what I'm saying you dolt
>The former constantly degrade other races as subhumanAgain, have you READ Der Untermensch? Do you understand what is meant by sub-human? To the Nazis and Hitler, they are facismiles of humanity, human-shaped beings with no soul or actual life in them, like a programmed robot in West World.
>seriously implying that White didn't treat Steven as PinkNo, it just screams about your misunderstnding of the entire issue.
>like a mother dealing with a rowdy child that she still lovesLOL and with this you confirm my point from before
>if you think Cthulhu is some malevolent beingAs the rest of your response demonstrates you lack reading comprehension. I stated that stating the Diamonds are like children is to call Cthulhu a child. Malevolence does not enter the equation here.
>nothing but "nuh uh"<t.noreadingcomprehension
If you can't follow an argument tht doesn't eual "nuh uh" you blooming baby
>They weren't aware of the consequences until Steven made them awareExcept that makes no fucking sense, as I pointed out. Either they aren't aware and thus cannot connect or even begin to understand. Or they can be helped, but then have to be aware on some level.
>Steven is the bridgeWhich makes no sense considering his character as I explained
>Just because beings or aliens do not understand humans doesn't mean they cannot do sofucking hell, I have to ask if YOU are autistic m8. My point was that if Gems are such alien life-forms that they do not register humans as real feeling beings, then they would scarce be able to understand or have the same range of emotions and empathy towards them, which means, human raised and thinking Steven cannot relate to them and they cannot relate to him. However since this is demonstrated as untrue, that means that they CAN comprehend suffering the the concept of humans being living beings, and so chose to ignore this in their destructive campaign(s).
>>4542Do you even understand how "becoming" works and how that it is not the same as "being"? Just because Diamonds became aware of consequences doesn't mean they were aware of it in the first place. Having the potential to do something doesn't they can do it. Children are born with the potential of morality, but they started out being amoral until they learn about consequences. Diamonds are no different.
>Again, have you READ Der Untermensch? Do you understand what is meant by sub-human? To the Nazis and Hitler, they are facismiles of humanity, human-shaped beings with no soul or actual life in them, like a programmed robot in West World.Are you actually incapable of reading what I said? Hilter made an effort to dehumanize others but Diamonds didn't "humanize" anything around them to begin with until Steven came along.
>>2561>Steven Universe is irredeemable garbage with shitty, lazy animation, inconsistent designs, a toxic fanbase of id-polers who make bronies look sane, tuneless 'songs', no story-boards, bad animation made in some Far-East sweatshop, ridiculous 'plot', anti-revolutionary liberalism, gender fluid rubbish etc. Aaaaaannnndddd SOLD to the NEET for one dollar! You really made me want to see this.
>The list of everything wrong with Steven Universe could fill a book if one analyzed the whole show, Write it! Just do it, faggot! :D
>>2529Not mine post, but check this one out:
https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:49280Can we even talk about how the entire show revolved around a little kid who gets in the way of awesome fighting superheroes who try to save the Earth? Steven is a fatto who eats 10 meals a day and ruins everything. The show shouldn't revolve around him. I think this show needs to make the change that Gravity Falls made: less on personal crud that won't even matter in the long run, and more on the KA-BOOMO and plot solving.
Also, every single character on this show is OVERPOWERED!!! Let's talk about Pearl. SHE DEFEATED ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL GEMS IN THE UNIVERSE COMBINED WITH A POWERHOUSE!!! The only two times that she was truely beaten were by clones of herself. Garnet has freaking FUTURE VISION and super strength, and Amythest can pretty much shape-shift into anything she wants. I would like to see some limitations.
This series is also running out of ideas. The quality of the shows are obviously going down. One of the first episodes was about the team rushing to the top of an important gem landmark in an attempt to save it and keep some gem culture in the Earth. One of the most recent episodes was about Steven getting scared by monster movies (another reason why is is the worst main character ever) and Ronaldo's friendship issues with Lars. Plus, now these episodes are so predictable it makes me want to cry.
The show had so much potential, but then Rebacca Sugar had to stretch her luck with 52 episodes in one season, and then screwing it all up. Clarence is making another season, hopefully with more action. Adventure Time is at least trying to change their episodes so they are plot heavy. Regular Show and Teen Titans Go made the plot-heavy decision a long time ago. Even Uncle Grandpa is trying to improve, with the introduction of Aunt Grandma. But what is Steven Universe doing? Using the same cliche plot twists. Seriously, this cartoon needs to be cancelled.
>>4543>Just because Diamonds became aware of consequences doesn't mean they were aware of it in the first placeTo become aware they must be unable to be aware of the obvious. This is clearly not the case as demonstrated with Pinks opposition
>Are you actually incapable of reading what I saidI have you dolt, you seem to be unsure of what You actually want to say besides "muh unaware Diamonds" which is a shitty excuse.
>Hitler made effort to dehumanizehe made the effort to dehumanize them in the eyes of OTHERS, but in his own eyes already believed his lie
>Children are born with the potential of morality, but they started out being amoral until they learn about consequencesThe Diamonds are far from children in terms of age and development. Lacking maturity or behaving like a brat does not equal actually having the comprehension of a child.
Moreover Children are born with certain senses of right and wrong, which are influenced by their surroundings but still exist. Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequences. Mature decisions based on this understanding depends on upbringing, but the basal concept is inherent. Empathy is not born out of social interaction, as it is an inherent part of being a human and without it, no manner of learning will truly bring them understanding - those people are called sociopaths as they do not understand nor care for how to empathize.
>>4559>really made me want to see thisIf you WANT to see that you're lost my friend
>do itWhy waste my time? Each episode is the same set garage.
>>4566>To become aware they must be unable to be aware of the obvious.No that's not how English/concepts works.
>I have you dolt, you seem to be unsure of what You actually want to say besides "muh unaware Diamonds" which is a shitty excuse. All you do to is make assertion and dismiss anytime I referenced things from reality as a counterpoint. You are browbeating everyone ITT with your very rigid and imperfect worldview
>Moreover Children are born with certain senses of right and wrong, which are influenced by their surroundings but still exist. Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequencesBut that's not true at all. Sociopaths, psychopaths and Feral childs exist very varying degrees of understanding of pain and consequences. You are taking the status quo from granted.
>Empathy is not born out of social interaction, as it is an inherent part of being a human and without it, no manner of learning will truly bring them understanding - those people are called sociopaths as they do not understand nor care for how to empathize. Being empathetic doesn't mean being nice/moral just your capacity to understand it. Thats what sympathy is for. You are right that empathy isn't born out of social interaction, but you need social interactions with empathy to understand morality/consequences and sympathy to let it affect yours.
If anything Hitler was extremely empathetic to know what and how the German people think and want in order to manipulate them. What he lacked was sympathy, unable to take the suffering of others as his own. The Diamonds are the exact inverse, unable to understand others' feelings but willing to be considerate to others once they are. Again the dynamic between Pink's treatment Pearl/Volleyball shows how Pink was able to correct her behaviour once she was aware of consequences but still doing it poorly coz she didn't know what Pearl wanted/felt
>>4570Go back to reddit
>>4569>not how English/concepts worksYes it does. To become aware of something you have to be unaware of it in the first place
- Unaware: having no knowledge of a situation or fact
- Awareness: knowledge or perception of a situation or fact.
>make assertion and dismiss anytime I referenced things from realityI make a logical argument based on definitional consistency and the show itself
As for reality, where? You keep misinterpreting both Hitler AND the Gems. No-one is saying they're 1 for 1 identical but their actions have nazi ideals within them. No-one said their entire social structure was exactly as nazi Germany, but that they as "leaders" were like Hitler.
>browbeating everyoneI ignore the posts that I agree with unless I have something to add to them.
>that's not true at allYes it is. Empathy is a learned trait but has inherent roots in most people that grow with stimulation and will exist in rudimentary form.
> very varying degrees of understanding of pain and consequencesThat's literally what I said. You're just trying to gainsay me because you're assblasted
>Being empathetic doesn't mean being nice/moral just your capacity to understand itEmpathy is in laymans terms the ability to feel what another person is feeling. So if you've broken your leg or suffered the loss of a person you care for, you can empathize with someone else who suffers the same pain and emotions. With a Sociopath you lack the actual understanding of the emotions because they are at best muted and at worst non-existent, making the person indifferent. Pain and suffering evoke nothing from them, however even the most basic non-sociopathic person with rudimentary empathy will feel something. Pink did, despite her ignorance and acted upon this. This implies that Diamonds are both able to empathize with humans and other similar life-forms and are aware of this to some extent. The Diamonds may not know the details of their campaign on earth but they are aware of it occurring and of the environment/life there.
>you need social interactions with empathy to understand morality/consequences and sympathy to let it affect yoursCorrect. However the Diamonds have precisely that. They are quite long-lived and Pink demonstrated an awareness of some level and clearly tried to carry this across.
> Hitler was extremely empathetic to know what and how the German people think and wantHe was empathetic to Germans because he saw them as people, his people, the great people, and saw "untermensch" as being a cancer to his people who weren't really alive in the first place and thus deserved no empathy. This is what I've been getting at.
>Pink was able to correct her behaviourThat is a detail. How to deal with consequences still speaks of awareness and the attempt to amend errors. The other diamonds, despite being of equal rank to Pink in the regard to such understanding, chose otherwise.
>>4578>To become aware of something you have to be unaware of it in the first placeBut that's not the same as saying "must be unable to be aware of the obvious". You do realize the difference right? The difference being unable to be aware vs being unaware? So why are you arguing that the Diamonds were always aware therefore guilty and using Pink gaining awareness as an example?
>make a logical argument based on definitional consistency and the show itselfYou have made zero examples of the show's events to make your shows, even mock me for doing so. FFS You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's Untermensch.
>but their actions have nazi ideals within themOh fuck off, reproduction for its own sake is hardly "nazi ideals"
>Empathy is a learned trait but has inherent roots in most people that grow with stimulation and will exist in rudimentary form. You are saying nothing, either empathy is innate or learned. You can't have your cake and eat it.
>That's literally what I said. You're just trying to gainsay me because you're assblastedBruh, you claimed that "Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequences" how then can you explain the fact that feral children, sociopaths and psychopaths don't experience this (although it is with varying effects for feral children and not statistically recorded) without dehumanizing them? Oh but go ahead, dismiss everything I said and call me mad like you always do.
>Empathy is in laymans terms the ability to feel what another person is feeling. So if you've broken your leg or suffered the loss of a person you care for, you can empathize with someone else who suffers the same pain and emotions.No genius, empathy is about guessing/understanding what another person is feeling. What you are describing is sympathy. If I have good empathy, I don't need to break my leg or suffer the loss of a person to understand what you are going through. If I have sympathy, I would feel as though I got my leg broken or family lost
>This implies that Diamonds are both able to empathize with humans and other similar life-forms and are aware of this to some extent. The Diamonds may not know the details of their campaign on earth but they are aware of it occurring and of the environment/life there. Again being able to do something, doesn't mean they can do it. The Diamonds did not know about the suffering they are going to cause until Pink spent time on earth. Having the capacity for Empathy (and sympathy) is nothing without the social interaction to use both of them to understanding others. The Diamonds did not get an opportunity to do while Hilter clearly did.
>This is what I've been getting at. Yes and the Diamonds didn't see anyone as 'their' people even each other, hurting each other just as they hurt Gems and Earth, with varying effects due to varying levels of power.
>The other diamonds, despite being of equal rank to Pink in the regard to such understanding, chose otherwise.The Diamonds didn't had a choice, they weren't born the last and small, they didn't break their Pearl, they didn't colonized/visit Earth, they didn't meet Greg etc etc. Only until Steven arrived to enlighten them about what they are doing to others and each other did they had a choice.
>>4581>must be unable to be aware of the obviousTrue, however, if Pink can understand that means that it was obvious enough that the other diamonds would have been able to be aware if they bothered to care, but they did not.
>the Diamonds were always aware therefore guiltyBecause they were choosing to dismiss what Pink learned because it was problematic to their worldview.
>made zero examples of the show's eventsScroll up. Unless you mean specific examples down to scene and dialogue, which you didn't do either for that matter. The general parts of the story I referenced repeatedly. (Steven bitching at the Diamonds for example).
>You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's UntermenschFucking when?
>Jew BolsheviksFucking when?! I said that about Diamonds indiscriminate behavior towards Pink and Steven, ignoring their differences, the same way Hitler lumped, say German-blooded dissidents with ethnic Jews under "le bolshevik threat". Again I did not say its a 1:1 match, but a similarity, demonstrated in my simile "LIKE [X]"
>reproduction for its own sake is hardly "nazi ideals"No, but imperialist colonization and not acknowledging the the humanity of foreign "races" as being real is definitely Nazi. Don't be obtuse.
>either empathy is innate or learnedEmpathic ABILITY is innate. However actual adult empathy where we can discern right from wrong to the individual level (such as different types of crime being punished with different levels of severity) is learned. Without learned/taught empathy emotions are not as clear and reactions are more instinctual, so pain inflicted would result in a direct response, or lack of one if the pain is sufficient enough to cause fear. Empathy is not something that is precise because it is an emotional concept that can be both minutely precise and very vague.
>how then can you explain the fact that feral children, sociopaths and psychopaths don't experience thisSociopaths are people who are born with a DEFECT. Psychopaths are also DEFECTS, they are not common, and also have tiers. Some sociopaths merely have stunted emotions while others lack them utterly. Some psychopaths are maniacs while others are just overly aggressive. Feral Children are usually normal, their empathy just lacks the finesse and precision gained by social interaction.
I don't see what is so hard to understand.
>without dehumanizing themI never dehumanized them to begin with, but ok, ass.
>dismiss everything I said and call me madI dismiss what you say because you wholly misinterpret what I am saying and thus end up arguing against a strawman of my argument… or an out of context part of it. This is why I stated your reading comprehension is poor.
>empathy is about guessing/understanding what another person is feeling<you're describing sympathy
No idiot. This entire "no u" is exactly what I'm talking about. You have everything tipsy-turvy i your head. Sympathy is best exemplified with, say Pity for someone's loss, while empathy would be to actually RELATE and FEEL that loss. Sympathy is essentially from a bystanders point of view. You can have sympathy for someone when you have never experienced their feelings, but to empathize with them requires a relateable experience of similar sort.
>being able to do something, doesn't mean they will do itFTFY
>The Diamonds did not know about the suffering they are going to cause until Pink spent time on earthBut afterwards what changed? It took Steven nearly destroying them to have them throw their hands up and cry surrender despite there being no reason for them to actually understand why.
>The Diamonds did not get an opportunity to do while Hilter clearly didThe difference is in scale. Hitler did not interact or travel far internationally for most his life. Expand Hitler into a galactic conqueror and you get the same thing. His conclusions were made by essentially taking the views of the upperclass and embracing them. The Diamonds were the upper-class to begin with. That is their principle difference. Action and belief-wise however, they are largely similar.
> even each other, hurting each other just as they hurt Gems and EarthWhich would imply a lack of a human type of emotional sympathy and empathy and closer to that of some eldritch being. Something contradicted by Pink's display of empathy. This goes back to my original point. They can't be so violent and indiscriminate of others humanity and subsequent treatment of them yet simultaneously have the potential for awareness. They aren't animals who have basal instincts and rudimentary intelligence, thus their basic moralities are either different or completely rejected. It can't be both (realistically) however this is SU, inconsistency is its white bread and butter substitute.
>Only until Steven arrived to enlighten them about what they are doing to others and each other did they had a choice.Which is retarded and inconsistent as I said. (Not to mention is sounds like the "Missionary priest comes to educate the heathens" cliche)
Honestly this argument is pointless. SU is written and made so inconsistently that both sides can be argued ad nauseum. The point is that if we follow the idea of the ending, The Diamonds were acting like a bunch of entitled cunts purposely staying ignorant of their own crimes OR they are just so inhuman that the concept of ethics and morality is totally foreign (in which case Steven really shouldn't be able to change their views except by forcing them to stop - which he did - and verbally surrender to his ideology while not actually understanding or caring about it and only listening because the alternative is annihilation.
TL;DR: Either they were assholes who pretended they were doing no wrong because ignorance is convenient OR they are so inhuman as to have no concept of morality and thus had to be subjugated by Steven's OP Hax.
>>4640You're making want to hit a brick wall… You're as bad as one.
1) They can quite literally fuse and Pink can carry across her experiences in that way
2) Pink has a mouth and words she can explain, or at the least try to convince the others to experience what she did
3) Pink had to be somewhat aware to begin to comprehend the ideas she realized. If she was able to be aware, so COULD the other Diamonds.
>>4954>Korra is absolute lib shit, see belowNice links (seriously, finally we get a genuine communist review of LoK), however you could just link to the Avatar Thread, which deconstructs Korra faggotry far better.
Also its not entirely inaccurate to the 1920s aesthetic (until you hit giant mecha territory in Season 2), however it fails to earn up to it because - as Lily Orchard put it - the development of the Elemental Nations are not parallel to that of our world and thus technology would clearly evolve differently.
>>5275>EXPZ is Oddguy from Encyclopedia DramaticaSource?
>>5106Because people sometimes don't know whats actual quality if they don't have the education and availability of it. People are crazy for The Loud House and SU, both shallow series that mascarade as having "deep messages" which is utter horseshit and even if it were true, the format and actual visual media presented undercuts this. You can't have something that works both for babies and more mature children because their needs are contradictory. Ben 10 (OS) is a show aimed at 10 yer olds, its not super-deep but it carries some basic good messages and conveys a coherent, fun story with a kid being an alien superhero, and in the process of being one, learning his weaknesses and developing as a character.
Steven Universe has a similar concept Stevens dad being someone connected to the whole Gems/aliens like Grandpa Max, and Connie (supposed to) be the smarter mature foil to Steven, like Gwen is to Ben, or the Gems are Stevens main 'power' like the Omnitrix is for Ben. However the difference is execution. The animations is worse, the art-design is lazy. The characters are unsympathetic; Connie comes off as too meek, like a flat imitation of Katara from ATLA rather than Gwen's haughty yet usually correct assertiveness, Steven is an infantile whiner who sounds like someone took the Naruto dub and put it through a wringer 3 or 5 times and acts like a child 1/2 his age, the Gems, being independent 'persons' have their own characters unlike the Omnitrix alien forms, however they act like a band of ideologues and might as well be NPCs controlled by Steven, something pointed out by Peridot when analyzing the cluster. Steven's Dad is a mix between a hippie, and a yuppie who lost his property in alimony payments and generally is useless. Neither assertive enough to tell Steven off for shitty behavior, nor does he have specific powers or knowledge, It would have been easier to just have him be gone.
The themes are contradictory and in the attempt to be "DEEEEP" ends up being shallow and boring.
TL;DR: people used to shit content are going to like and want shit content and part of being leftist is to analyze and assess the validity and quality of what we consume, preventing us from degrading to where any shite blob on the screen is "entertainment" (like the Emoji movie or other rubbish), this is why we cannot withhold criticism of quality.
>>5276>You can't have something that works both for babies and more mature children because their needs are contradictoryI dunno, stuff like Rocky & Bullwinkle or The Muppet Show seemed to simultaneously nail material suitable for everyone from small children through tweens to adults pretty admirably.
Obviously that sort of multi-demographic appeal can't work for every story, but it can certainly be done.
>>6977Yeah, that's just a question of writing ability. A good writer, even given a restrictive mandate like "make a 30-minute toy commercial", can still churn out excellent, deeply nuanced television suited to many audiences and repeat viewing. A hack writer, even given amazing grants like "write a mature boundary-pushing story", will still produce shallow garbage that looks down at its audience.
I did consider naming edutainment stuff like old Sesame Street or Beakman's World as examples too, but thought maybe they were a bit too directly targeted at young children for other audiences (especially the infamously insecure teenage audience) to both stumble on and admit to watching, compared to the two shows I mentioned.
>>6985I think there's an additional wrinkle in the case of shows such as SU, which (so far as I can tell from the marketing) aren't targeted any lower than middleschoolers at minimum. Since sex (or at least romance) is on the menu, this raises the question of writing such material without choking the show to death.
As the discussion of AtLA vs. AtLoK upthread demonstrates, this can either be something that develops naturally from well rounded characterization, or something that feels shoehorned and boring regardless of if it was part of the earliest conceptions of the story.
>>7066>marketing upSU was being watched by a literal elementary school neighbor's kid. She was so obsessed with the show she decided to imitate them and became obsessed with gender politics when she got into highschool last I saw her (after all the show has been since 2013). That shit was airing on CN and that content was always for kids of 12 and under. Besides, you think most parents who work all the time have any time to moderate what their kid sees? They just put up youtube kids or netflix or CN and let everything play. Even if you claim its not aimed at kids, the style is so simplistically cartoonish that it lends itself to that exact demographic, sort of how Rick and Morty does before parents hear the swearing.
>sex (or at least romance) is on the menu, this raises the question of writing such material without choking the show to death. Indeed, that is appropriate and possible IN a show, but it has to progress naturally (as in ATLA). Steven Universe just comes off as "hey lets just jump your bones cause funsies!" which
A) makes sex utterly casual (which is a bad thing to teach children considering that sex is an adult decision often with consequences)
B) makes the idea of growing a relationship meaningless
They try to fix this with the whole Garnet situation but it just comes off as cringe.
>can either be something that develops naturally from well rounded characterization, or something that feels shoehorned and boring regardless of if it was part of the earliest conceptions of the story.That is certainly true.
>>7075Gravity Falls still has a lot of inane dumbassery but its decent… its also a massive outlier in terms of shows, the only other of similar type is Gumball, and with both shows what benefits them is that they expand on the animation so that not everything is toonboom.
Also Gravity Falls was years ago, every other toonboom cartoon is full of liberal shit or just plain dumbassery.
Adventure Time is just over-rated shite that people can't get over because it was still new enough that people accepted it.
>>7077>Gravity Falls still has a lot of inane dumbassery but its decent…Hmph! I'm willing to defend it as a truly exceptional 8/10 show, genuinely brilliant.
>what benefits them is that they expand on the animation so that not everything is toonboomI think what helped GF the most, in terms of visuals, was its extremely robust design phase. Like I said upthread, the amount of symbolism and thematic cohesion squeezed into the design of every character, item, and background, was phenomenal. It's such a shame all that had to be squeezed through the samey and inexpressive lens of Calarts toddlerscribbles by the actual animators.
>Also Gravity Falls was years agoTrudat, though there have been (excellent) sequel comics after it failed to get more seasons.
>>7081>the amount of symbolism and thematic cohesion squeezed into the design of every character, item, and background, was phenomenal. It's such a shame all that had to be squeezed through the samey and inexpressive lens of Calarts toddlerscribbles by the actual animators.Yep
>there have been (excellent) sequel comics after it failed to get more seasons.Yep, /co/ saw to that.
>>2531>the white savior meme where native earthlings was saved by a noble alien and would have died otherwise.It's not a white saviour meme it is a generic colonial saviour meme. the former implies that only whites were colonial… which is wrong.
Also I mean they would of died otherwise… because of a problem the gems created in the first place.
>>7077>Adventure Time is just over-rated shite that people can't get over because it was still new enough that people accepted it.Have you even watched it after the first season? I like it. It has a distinct style which changes practically every episode in the later seasons. I love the "James Baxter the Horse" because it's just so simple while also being distinct.
>every other toonboom cartoon is full of liberal shit or just plain dumbassery.all capitalist media is liberal shit you faggot. That isn't a distinctive characteristic of these shows, it's just your conception of "the good old days" of liberal cartoons where the style looked like someone shat on a piece of paper and modeled it. I would take shitty little glitter shows over that
>>7632>That isn't a distinctive characteristic of these shows, it's just your conception of "the good old days" of liberal cartoons Overt liberalism and general liberal themes are very fucking different you fucking newfag and that's not even true. Not being explicitly communist is not necessarily liberal ignoramus. But when your entire show is projecting gender-fluid bullshit constantly and with intention of "educating children about le sexuality" then your show is shitlib rubbish.
>the style looked like someone shat on a piece of paper and modeled itYeah no. Fucking Ren and Stimpy, a literal shitpost of a series was better than this lazy noodly garbage, which despite modern computer technology negating the issues of early animation, can't be bothered to fucking do proper layering or have consistent design. If you think Steven Retardverse or Teen Titans Go, or Thundercats Roar or Cadance is better than fucking Animaniacs or Darkwing Duck or Gargoyles or Real Ghostbusters, then you have no taste or understanding of animation and artstyle whatsoever.
Nobody says you can't have goofy fucking designs or mature plot in your kids cartoons, but the past decade of media is made up of 90% garbage that has lax animation, trash story lines and shitty mass-produced artstyle. This compares poorly to the large amounts of good shows from the past which - even despite many being toy commercial cartoons - told good stories. In 10 years no-one is going to remember Adventure Time except with a "hey that weird show existed" but everyone remembers cartoons of the 90s, 80s and 2000s, they are iconic and people talk about them today on and on.
>>7665>Yeah no. Fucking Ren and Stimpy, a literal shitpost of a series was better than this lazy noodly garbage, which despite modern computer technology negating the issues of early animation, can't be bothered to fucking do proper layering or have consistent design. If you think Steven Retardverse or Teen Titans Go, or Thundercats Roar or Cadance is better than fucking Animaniacs or Darkwing Duck or Gargoyles or Real Ghostbusters, then you have no taste or understanding of animation and artstyle whatsoever. both are equally as shit. One is grotesque and uninteresting, the other is too simple and too flashy.
>Nobody says you can't have goofy fucking designs or mature plot in your kids cartoons, but the past decade of media is made up of 90% garbage that has lax animation, trash story lines and shitty mass-produced artstyle. This compares poorly to the large amounts of good shows from the past which - even despite many being toy commercial cartoons - told good stories. In 10 years no-one is going to remember Adventure Time except with a "hey that weird show existed" but everyone remembers cartoons of the 90s, 80s and 2000s, they are iconic and people talk about them today on and on.Most shows of that era were made to sell toys/merchandise or other apparel. The 90s had good shows, don't get me wrong, but they still had simple art styles, examples being: Cat-dog, Rugrats, powerpuff girls, etc.
Also it's funny that most prolific shows with a 'CalArts' style weren't even made by CalArts graduates. Ben Bocquelet, Rebecca Sugar, Chris Savino and Ian Jones Quarterly for example.
Plus the "muh calarts" style shit is still fucking wrong in most cases. The main gripe is the character design, which although a good criticism, isn't a good basis for saying that modern shows are bad. Shows like OK KO, Regular Show and especially Gumball have vastly different art styles and animation styles, with Gumball using various different styles and mediums of animation.
>But when your entire show is projecting gender-fluid bullshit constantly and with intention of "educating children about le sexuality" then your show is shitlib rubbish. I'd take that shit over art which looks like monkeys flinging shit over the screen such as in Ren and Stimpy you niggerfaggot.
>>7668>One is grotesque and uninterestingGrotesque? Yes, Uninteresting is a matter of opinion since some people find it funny or horrifying and thus entertaining. It is a kids cartoon after-all. Being harmlessly offensive is far better than harmfully PC.
>Most shows of that era were made to sell toys/merchandise or other apparel1) I mentioned that from the start
2) That's only true of the 80s. Federal legislature in the late 80s concerning advertising in kids content forced 90s and 2000s cartoons to stop using Pester Power as a selling method.
3) Doesn't fucking matter, Mighty Max was BASED on a toyline yet it was fucking awesome.
>Cat-dog, Rugrats, powerpuff girlsAnd then we had better animated and non-simplistic stuff like Gargoyles and Godzilla the Animated series and Extreme Ghostbusters.
> it's funny that most prolific shows with a 'CalArts' style weren't even made by CalArts graduatesTO use the phrase of another ex-cal Arts student, popular artists influence other artists. With things like Fairly Odd Parents, the designs were weird but detailed and with a unique style, but those shows died out and in came deviant-art caricatures of low-end cartoons of the 2000s like Teenage Robot and Mighty B.
>OK KOOK KO and Gumball use the fluidity of their shows being random as fuck to fully let loose. However things like Cadance and Steven Uni don't do. They're stuck in their rut of PC-shit or brainless randomness, where loud noise and motion = 'humor'.
Regular Show actually is more of a Rick and Morty type show and also revels in randomness and a cheap young adult-humor genre. This works as a lowbrow tv show for casul viewing (not kids), apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek) and it becomes shit.
> art which looks like monkeys flinging shit over the screen such as in Ren and StimpyThe niggerfaggot is you if you're saying that. Ren and Stimpy, as I said, were literal shitposts of their time. They still outdo Steven Universe despite being grotesque, because they're unique and insane and not plain and stupid.
>>7670>Uninteresting is a matter of opinion since some people find it funny or horrifying and thus entertaining.In the same way that "some people" find fart jokes funny.
>3) Doesn't fucking matter, Mighty Max was BASED on a toyline yet it was fucking awesome. outliers exist, most shows were still awful. Kind of like these days, no?
>And then we had better animated and non-simplistic stuff like Gargoyles and Godzilla the Animated series and Extreme Ghostbusters. And we also had shows like Chowder and Avatar LA. Outliers exist, trend is still maintained.
>OK KO and Gumball use the fluidity of their shows being random as fuck to fully let loose. However things like Cadance and Steven Uni don't do. They're stuck in their rut of PC-shit or brainless randomness, where loud noise and motion = 'humor'. I don't like Steven Uni either, trust me. But to say that its animation couldn't be beautiful at times is wrong (this was when actual good animators were brought on the shows, don't remember the episode when). The problems with steven universe was that the animation process was disorganized and messy. OK KO wasn't random, especially in the last season. It still had good animation still.
>Regular Show actually is more of a Rick and Morty type show and also revels in randomness and a cheap young adult-humor genre. This works as a lowbrow tv show for casul viewing (not kids), apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek) and it becomes shit. Regular show didn't work as a show because of the demographic in mind, true. But other than i don't find any problems with it.
>apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek)in the same way that you can't "apply" the humor of powerpuff girls to some random show made for marketing. This is a non-argument.
>The niggerfaggot is you if you're saying that. Ren and Stimpy, as I said, were literal shitposts of their time. They still outdo Steven Universe despite being grotesque, because they're unique and insane and not plain and stupid.Shitposts which were viewed by kids. It was a grotesque shitshow which used pretty apparent sex & bodily humor while also being "random". It is practically the same thing as the shows you hate. At least steven universe tried to make a compelling story despite falling flat on its head, ren & stimpy was just cheap adult humor in the same vain as modern family guy.
>>7673 (me)
Also, I just want to say this. Although I understand your point that most shows these days are shit or have a similar style, for the most part i prefer it over styles such as that of Ren & stimpy and Rocko's modern life. Even then I believe there should be variety. But this isn't a problem with these cartoonists or even these shows, it's a facet of the animation industry. It was economical before to make shows of the same ilk as your favorite nostalgia-driven liberalism, now it isn't.
>>7673>find fart jokes funny.And? It's a kid show, SNL which is supposed to be for adults hasn't been any better for years. Again, like I said, it's a shitpost of a cartoon.
>outliers exist, most shows were still awfulWrong. Most shows were awesome. Sometimes stupid, sometimes smart, but awesome nontheless.
> we also had shows like Chowder and Avatar LABoth are late 2000s cartoons, not 2010s. Shows like Clone Wars and Transformers Prime existed after and THEY are outliers.
>OK KO wasn't random, especially in the last seasonI meant it style of story. It embraced the absurdism of the designs and essentially pulled a new looney toons in that regard. They used the animation to their advantage.
>other than i don't find any problems with itNeither do I.
>the humor of powerpuff girls to some random show made for marketingThat is an utter nonsequitur. My point is that you can't combine such a cartoon style and then aim it at a demographic it shouldn't be aimed for.
>It is practically the same thing as the shows you hateNope, pic related. The background, details and animation were detailed and complex, not flat same-face with a "stretch mouth circle into wider circle" like today. The devil is in the details.
>At least steven universe tried to make a compelling story Nope, it didn't try at all. It went through the motions of it (vaguely) but there was no real over-arching story, and instead focus episodically on one or another numbnut asshole to defeat who has wrong-think. This has already been addressed in multiple posts (and youtube reviews) prior so I won't go on this.
>same vain as modern family guyAgain no. Modern Family Guy is superficially no different to its original version, but the details show otherwise.
>>7704>didn't the Ren and Stimpy guy whip the animators because he was autistic about never recycling faces and got canned for it?<genius=/=sanity
Yes, and?
>>7717>has been incredibly economical.Yep, which means they pocket the money. It's a money-laundering scheme essentially.
>>7725No, it was long after he was fired. 2 women acused him of essentially coming on to them when there were 15-14. He apologized and blamed his mental issues.
>>7824See
>>4033 and the following arguments
>>8799I don't think there's dissonance, with the correct level of insanity.
Feelz>reelz is the lens they view everything through
>>8824Who spent more effort?
The metric for successful vs. unsuccessful trolling is shitposts in vs. saltposts out ratio.
So funny story, the sjw fanbase of this show actually decided she was """coded""" as hipsanic/latina, not just because of their typical muh diversity shit, but due to this clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd8KG5FtJ-0so these faggots did the kind of stereotyping they claim to hate.
>>13247>Ben 10<Zoomer
LOL
>>13195Of course
>>13449Am 22 year old zoomer
Remember watching Avatar and Ben 10 when they first aired
Good times
I remember I thought the first episode of Ben 10 was the absolute shit
>>18767It's capitalism using a very thin allegory for gay sex and related shit to make a biiiig profit off of liberal kiddies.
>>18770 Good for you I guess?
>>19821underage is still pedo to be fair
>>19820nou
>>19824>nouYou are very obvious
NTA but
>underage is still pedoI mean it's a teenage ROBOT drawn in stylized 2D, people having the for that unironically are more porn addicted rather than pedos.
>>19826>you're mother>you'reKek
NTA means Not That Anon, silly.
>>19829>it's okI didn't say that, I just said it's a different kind of mental illness. Quit projecting your fantasies.
>>19828 >2008 "Ur Mama" humorKek
>>19830>Quit projecting your fantasies. No, it's even canon that she is 15
>a different kind of mental illnessFrom my time in /co/, it seems to be same illness or at least both at the same time there
>>19832> it's even canon that she is 15I mean the "sexualization" of her, most people didn't see the show for porn, and it isn't blatantly sexual either.
>it seems to be same illness or at least both at the same time there possibly.
>>19835>most people didn't see the show for pornJust like how most people don't see ben 10 or any other show with underage characters and go jerk off to them, that doesn't really changed the age. It's still jailbait
>and it isn't blatantly sexual either. Unless you're talking about the show. then that's dumb
>>19836A character from a CHILDRENS CARTOON being A KID isn't jailbait. Jailbait'd be if she had a sexual body design, and not literal geometric shapes.
>Unless you're talking about the show. then that's dumb Yeah I'm talking about the show?
>>19839Yeah no shit, but that isn't the argument I made!?
>>19840Because it's fucked up?
>>19837>and not literal geometric shapes. >but it's 2d/co/fags and pornfags still would jerk to the geometric shapes
and it became something different when put them together or them as a reference ie some times a part of drawing
>>19840>outside the context of the showit isn't, i never even said it was, if drawing of someone who is a kid then it's a draw of a kid
>>19842>Yeah no shit, but that isn't the argument I made!? Nether was, "A character from a CHILDRENS CARTOON being A KID isn't jailbait."
I was about porn, but it cam be debated if
x show was had
x fetish by the writes or animators
>>19844>/co/fags and pornfags still would jerk to the geometric shapes ok and?
>was about porn, but it cam be debated if x show was had x fetish by the writes or animators the animators could and have done this in cartoons of the present and past, but XJ-9 doesn't have this much.
>>19846>ok and? That's the point
>>19849You had a completely different opinion and attitude from before baiter
>>19851You're bloody schizophrenic, how am I a baiter? The original point of contention is "muh gem > xj-9" and that had 0 to do with porn.
>>19852 It is a good edit
>>19845>That pic and all of this sudden Jenny talkLast post i am making as not to further derail the original topic of this thread in this communist bamboo sharpening forum but oh man do i have a soft spot for this character and the threads about that show that used to exist in /co/. Good times.
>>19853Sometimes a person just really wants to argue about something
>>19855NTA
xj9 is a LQ waifu and has nothing on gem clown pussy or even xj-9's milf shortstack mom is hotter despite being 2nd worse girl
>Sometimes a person just really wants to argue about somethingWhich is why you have to go back
>>19853>The original point of contention is "muh gem > xj-9" Yes, spinel >/clang/ overrated jailbait waifu, which then you went off topic, strawman and now admitted you baited like the /co/fag you are, for your shit waifu because you got butthurt and didn't want to admit you been jerking off to jailbait porn in /co/.
>picYou're proof that "XJ-9 doesn't have this much." isn't the case.
This is why anon have bad faith on here
>>19857>Yes, spinel >/clang/ overrated jailbait waifuCope more gemcel
>you went off topic LOL how?
>straw man no u unironically
>admitted you baited ???????
>/co/fag Said by me never
>shit waifu I stated otherwise, but okay hon
>butthurt LOL sure
>"XJ-9 doesn't have this much." isn't the case Ok schizo, nice boogieman
>muh pedos Wrong board bud, that'd be /GET/
>>19871 Anon, shitstorms keep chans alive, so thanks, and good point about it.
>>19855Based, I didn't lurk /co/ much but I did enjoy the show way back when it fist aired and the character is kinda memorable.
>>19856 NTA
>LQ waifu<making this about 'le sex' and 'vaifu' cringe
>muh gms is betterThey're 1 step off from being literal shit, cope more.
>you have to go back You go back, schizo.
>>19869>and even if its jailbait so what>even if it's pedo porn so whatpls go /co/fag
>>19873>Anon, shitstorms keep chans alive, so thanks, and good point about it. No it really doesn't and that's not what even anon said.
>cringe >schizotry harder
>>19871>Ooops sorry I just said it's "pedo" as a jokeif true, it all stated because post saying
"nah anon was ok, to be fair" when it came to the post and then the xj9fag made bad faith bait for the rest of the time
>Jenny as their waifu or whatever"
It wouldn't be that", if anon didn't made bait all day or night for anon's shit waifu and make the same points that's already been said by all lolifags
>>19878>No it really doesn't<yes they do, chans thrive on conflict and arguments, that's the point of the forums. >cringe schizo You are, cope more.
NTA
>xj9fag<everyone posting the character is the same person kek
>bait still have yet to demonstrate any bait at all.
>ssame pointsThe entire thread in the past 2 days have been pointing out that there is no specific in-show fetishization of the character and nobody brought it up until you started blasting ass about 'jailbait'. YOU are bad faith.
>>19884>YOU are bad faith.nou
>you started blasting ass about 'jailbaitnah and nou
>>19888Yes. :^)
>>19889>if its pedo to fap to cubes but its' not, like at all anon
>morphological 15 teen in porn then i dont caregay
>>19887very rude owo
i just want to say
>>19824 then anon went off-topic about shapes and into the
it only 2d augment out of nowhere
>>19913nah, spinel is older
>androids don’t even age eitherBut xj9 does.
>>19920>she changes parts, upgrades her mind and body and learnsnah. she just gets older In the show
>Robots' society is not every robot movie.pls stop going off topic into something unrelated again
>>19926>s*geing ptoo
>older She literally does not change in age at all.
>off topic It's on topic whiner
>>2529why steven universe is lib trash
>main character goes to the big bad genocidal evil>redeems them through muh talking and muh feelings>system mostly remains the fucking same but everything gets better because one right person just needed to go up and talk to those leaders>nothing is changed but things somehow get betterand note the diamonds were genocidal monsters that made hilter look like a saint which is lol
>>19962>redeems them through muh talking and muh feelingsThis is the part people compare to Talk no Jutsu and are wrong. Naruto failed to talk down the biggest bads,
the real Maadara and Kaguya and the people he would change with his words always were those that lost fights, and did not listen until then. Additionally Naruto connected to those people by appealing to something every non-noble experienced living the life of an ordinary person or as shinobi - pain, loss, helplessness and most of all hatred - things that plagued society on a structural and political level and not just feels. More importantly he'd beat them while defending or fighting for the things he cared for and loved rather than those that abandoned all attachment
Steven… doesn't have any of that and the Diamonds can not relate at all because they experienced nothing that could be relatable to the average joe-gem. Moreover they are alien as fuck, they are literally the Ootsutsuki of SU and ought to be just as sociopathic about inferior beings. I doubt that Hitler, Keitel, Goebbels and Himmler would be moved by the words of a Half-German Jew and do heel-faced turns.
So yeah, 2 different executions of the concept of talking to your enemy - one done good and the other bad
>>19964i think a basic thing to take from this as well is that your bad guys need skin in the game or their redemption will be frivolous. if they are far removed from the common man, it's basically asking them to be less selfish because… it's bad okay? your good guys also need skin in the game as well, otherwise it's just facile cruel optimism garbage
i think zizek has rambled somewhere about whether its possible for the bourgeois may redeem themselves. i don't quite remember where
>>19975>ThisYes
>Zizek hmmm, I'd like to listen to him discussing that, let us know if you find it.
I’m gonna do a review of this trash series made by Jews and foot fetishists.
Here’s a list of the main problems:
- Way to much filler and pointless filler arcs.
- Nonexistent to inconsistent character development.
- God awful pacing.
- Plot holes LOTS of plot holes.
- Basic principles of animation and art design consistently ignored and not on purpose
Okay let’s begin this review
Filler is a major problem affecting the enjoyability of Steven universe as a show. For example the reveal of the cluster, a major point in the shows progression takes 72 episodes simply to be mentioned, within those 71 episodes prior to it most of the screentime is spent on random stories and monster of the week episodes that never develop Steven or the other gems as characters as Rebecca sugar didn’t actually write the show but merely got the story board artists to randomly draw what they wanted like what Ward did but with none of the self awareness or editing for smart writing along with the fact that Stevens personality keeps resetting itself. This fact is not an isolated incident in the show as nearly all seasons except for the last one repeatedly have this problem of having major plot point be isolated with massive gaps between them of endless filler episodes and arcs that have almost 0 impact on the story overall with exceptions like Lars.
As mentioned prior much of Steven universe is filled with filler episodes whom fail consistently to actually develop the characters of the show due to constant resets and a plot that wasn’t written professionally, unfortunately I cannot just excuse those episodes simply for being filler as even the main episodes fail to actually develop the characters with stories like pearls forced fusion with garnet being forgotten about or Steven’s empathy for mass murderers the diamonds after it was established repeatedly that Steven was emotionally immature and needed to develop as a person to understand that not everyone can or should be forgived for their actions lest more would face suffering. Steven universe fails to consistently develop its characters and its ideas on that development routinely become ignored.
Plot holes are abundant in Steven universe as a victim of terrible world building, lack of symbolism as a relief for said poor world building and a poor understanding of the hard sciences from the main writers. The show never bothers establishing why the gems and diamonds are the only other life forms outside earth much less why humans can mix with them, the show never bothers clarifying why the gem wars happened or needed to happen in a way that makes any sense as the rise of the diamonds were based off the rise of nazi Germany but without the complex series of events that led to such an atrocity as Rebecca’s communication of the rise of the diamonds was due to geological ethnonationalism and no other ideas on civilization like technological advancements on home world, gem origins, gem societies, why gems even speak English, why they even use their bodies as weapons and can’t just build tools we see like the cluster or spacecraft in mass etc, this makes events in the story like why gems are even bothering to attack earth after so many years that are major defining points that even allow the show to have a beginning middle and end completely up to personal speculation.
Animation quality in this show is bad, this speaks for itself just by watching this show. 2d animation allows for the visual communication of ideas over a set amount of time but this show fails massively on that, none of the characters move in a manner that expresses them as characters unless they hire contract animators due to the fact that the storyboard of Steven universe is made unprofessionally forcing animators abroad to work with bad planning and likewise bad animation that can’t convey things like mass, speed, emotion, sense of scale, etc because the show wasn’t made by people that understand such concepts, and this is all excluding concepts like anatomy as there’s a lot of errors including body structure of characters like garnet. The backgrounds are decent but are poorly detailed and expressive when compared to shows like avatar or most animes made before isekai became popular.
In conclusion Steven universe is a poorly written and animated show that tries to convey on meaningful ideas of growth politics and adulthood but fails to communicate on most to all of the ideas it presents even if one assumes the ideology it promotes has any merit. I would not recommend this show to anyone. Good day to you reader.
PS: As shitty as it is
It’s not star vs the forces of evil which is actually shockingly worse
>>2544> Rebecca Sugar specifically designed to the world so that both communism and fascism never exist That’s so incredibly stupid that I need to hear her say it so I can laugh.
Is there an interview somewhere?
>>11222>222checked lol
>>8742 Ironically these race-swap edits are pretty common on /trash/ for the Bleached and Blacked threads, which acciidentally kinda created an entire guide for race-changing illustrations in edits, which porn-fags have used to extreme effect, changing entire comics.
>>40230>>40218Yes i was a children when i liked the show and no, reading is very important to build political views. Steven universe. Got home rn because rain. Like, it was a cool show about armed and revolutionary resistance against the imperial forces of homeworld, about ecology and other little political themes. It didn't cover capitalism because the imperialists did not had a consumerist society based on power being owned by the rich, since gems have superpowers that make almost all needs in life, like idk maybe harrypotter. Gems don't eat, or sleep, or even need to produce clothes and etc, since their society is based on pure utiilitarism to serve their overlords and reproduce by extracting and destroying other planets. Maybe it is how rebeca believes the world will look like in the future, so it doesn't despict our world in particular. But it still presents to small children the basic concepts of what the "left" fights for, wich is liberation against oppression, the end of all forms of discrimination based on class and a fight for a future without war, fear and the need of the system of exploration, so that all can be really free and live the happy yay gigachad utopia. I mean, if someone agrees with those comcepts they are ok to begin viewing theory. Everyone needs to begin somewhere, and tbh i believe everybody that is less than 18 is basically an idiot who has bad taste and should not be taken seriously. (this is like, the first time i am arguing and stuff i am br bad writing )
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