It also propagate the white savior meme where native earthlings was saved by a noble alien and would have died otherwise.
It sucks. Cartoons are not a proper medium for the kind of le nuanced mature story the show was convinced it was telling
The Crystal Gems were ecoterrorists, and the show writers never addressed or even realized that.
they should have embraced it
I really can't see a way for the show doing it right. Either you get the Crystal Gems applying their Protect Earth at All Costs policy fairly and are running about executing oil execs and destroying factory farms and stopping the colonization of the new world by European empires and generally being a super edgy, super OP version of Captain Planet and the Planeteers, or you get them teaching humans how to use fusion and bypassing the industrial era straight into Star Trek style utopia.
Either way, it can't fit with the show as it was. Which is the main reason I'd say the show was liberal.
Its liberal because of the talk no jutsu. Core liberalism is this stupid notion that world problems can be solved by being nice and respectful. Thats what Harry Potter was and why JK Rowling is so insufferable
One of the original team (Bismuth) is obviously meant to be a communist. She talks about class struggle and killing the "upper crusts." But she's deemed not civil enough so she's put in time out for 99% of the series. Even though Steve realized him mom made a mistake by locking her up, he does the same thing anyway.
I'd say the core liberalism is its inability to imagine another world and to become offended if such a possibility is suggested. The only alternative to modern day Earth that Steven Universe has is when they go to the moon palace and see the hologram of what the Empire would have done, where the Earth is turned into a productive center for the Empire.
Every other character is shocked because to the show this is horribly bad and in the show's logic Peridot is justifiably reprimanded and snubbed for supporting it.
That actually existing human civilization is on path to destroying itself and won't even have a starport as a legacy is totally verboten as subject matter. Nope! The way things are, which includes Greg driving a guzzler that belches out "whimsical" clouds of smoke and fast food restaurants and Stephen cheering about "animal byproducts" from animal agriculture, is literally perfect because it is just so quirky and fun!
Man Bismuth had the right idea in shattering the diamonds. Fucking faggot Steven had to poof them.
More likely that Bismuth is wrecked because the bitch diamond realize that her cover would be blown if she stay along.>>2533
The show is fucking trash because of this. It holds the incredibly liberal ideals that oppressed people have no means to fight back against their oppressors and it will only take a ruling class member to save the savages.
Also did I mention that Rebecca Sugar specifically designed to the world so that both communism and fascism never exist so that the main system is just a woke liberal world?
Lmao I honestly wanted to make a thread shitting on this garbage show. I used to like it, then it got to the ending and they more or less redeemed Hitler (by having him say sorry) via the Diamonds (which was apparently great because trans acceptance or something), at which point I realized it was something only a liberal white woman could make
And so it remains, if you want a good (somewhat) left-leaning action cartoon you watch Avatar: The Last Airbender
>>2544>A world that hasn’t yet experienced communism or fascism isn’t a world on the edge of either
Lmao is this what liberals actually believe?
the bombs didnt even hit Moscow,doesn't make any sense,also we can still see the crater in mexico which killed the dinosaurs,but mexico still exists,a nuke attack this big would not only destroy the world,it would be total overkill,didn't they think anythin….oh yeah their libs makes sense now
also whats supposed to even have happened,if fascism never existed why would america develop the tech to make bombs of that size in the first place?
>>2547>avatar >left leaning
Avatar ends with them forming the equivalent to the United States after killing the dictator. Its a liberal series to the core and Korra takes that liberalism and adds SJW idpol to the mix.
It's funny how the country that did communism has been dragged out of existence along with all 100+ million of its citizens, while the country that did the Holocaust is still there>The creator is jewish
Avatar doesn't end that way, Korra begins that way, Korra is shit
If SU took place in a world where WWII and other wars did happen would it end up like in Jojo with the pillar men where the nazis actually were terrified that there were beings superior to the aryans?
>>2529>talk no jutsu
Don't fucking use that epic power with SU, they don't have 'talk no jutsu' they had shitty "we're right and you're not, notw admit it" powers given to mary sue faggots.
>/sug/ fags have discovered /hobby/
>>2529>Is Steven Cringeverse liberal
Yes>talk no jutsu
1) No, that's not why its liberal
2) Leave Naruto out of this, at least there they tried to have a legitimate reason for talk no jutsu to work.
I'm going to repost my edited rant from /leftyweebpol/, so hold on to your butts.
It's id-pol trash with terrible sweat-shop animation, tuneless 'songs', infantile characters, and a nonsensical plot. It's just another cal-arts shit-fest:
Steven Universe is irredeemable garbage with shitty, lazy animation, inconsistent designs, a toxic fanbase of id-polers who make bronies look sane, tuneless 'songs', no story-boards, bad animation made in some Far-East sweatshop, ridiculous 'plot', anti-revolutionary liberalism, gender fluid rubbish etc. The list of everything wrong with Steven Universe could fill a book if one analyzed the whole show, except that you don't even need to examine the whole show because half the episodes are just the same thing rehashed repeatedly; Steven or one of the gems has a first world problem, they whine about it, then something happens so the gems gather up to do some shit, then Steven tags along or otherwise gets shoe-horned into the episode's event then the gems fuse and do whatever and the problem is magically averted.
No lessons are learned, Steven is special for no reason and gets OP powers for no reason (except muh half-breed) and remains the annoying infantile brat that he was at the beginning. The show is everything wrong with burger-land upped to 100 with the cast of characters that are thin-skinned, offended by everything but too lazy to change anything, and masochistically proud about it.
2 reviews on this show that deserve viewing regardless of your political differences with their makers.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RCL3ERdhhA>>2539>talk no jutsu
You literally don't understand the point of what talk no jutsu was if you're correlating it to this. You never saw this sort of blatant faggotry in Naruto. Naruto had its own dumb moments but never at this level of idiocy. >Harry Potter
HP has alotta problems that have been haggled over by the fandom for years, but this isn't one of them. Hell it's a specific plot-point of Harry Potter that talk and respect can't beat everything because it must be mutual and that requires a reformation of society. After Voldemort's defeat Wizarding society remained the same, the only difference being that an open magic fascist was dead, not that this solved the WW's problems. Harry Potter hate has become a dumb /leftypol/ band-wagon where newfags feel like they have to shove a jab at it in, even if they don't know Harry Potter at all. >>2542
Shattering the gems isn't murder. It's eternal torture (i-have-no-mouth) because the gems are still sentient and conscientious even though they're a pile of dust. Shattering a gem is sentencing it to an infinity of torture. It's a convenient way to make killing them into a truly horrible thing. All these people comparing this type of behavior to Che Geuvara are ignorant of who he was because he stated reluctance to use cruelty and death against his enemies except when necessary. The stupidest part of Bismuth's plan is that it's just shattering the diamonds' grunts and doing absolutely fuck-all against the diamonds themselves. What good would shattering the foot soldiers do? We know the diamonds don't care about them and most of them would have just been made to fight out of fear. You're essentially trying to fight the exploitative ruling class by killing the exploited.>>2554>Avatar ends with them forming the equivalent to the United States after killing the dictator
All of that is Korra stuff that wasn't part of ATLA until later comic retcons. That said Avatar didn't have a concrete political theme and was more about human interactions and natural balance than anything really political, though it dabbled in that with things like Fire-Nation Imperialism and the Dai Li. Korra was what was specifically politicized but I won't expand on that here.
They’ll just meme themselves into believing they’re descendants of gems.>>2554
On the subject of American fetishization. Code Geass might be the most egregious example where every single country became the United States [insert country name here] (even when it makes no fucking sense like Japan) under the system of an even worse UN. Somehow weebtards still try to paint the story as anti-imperialism when the villain main scheme is the anti-communist dog whistle of “making everyone apart of a hivemind/the same”.https://codegeass.fandom.com/wiki/United_Federation_of_Nations
can someone explain who bombed half of fucking russia and why and how
It happened during the Crystal Gems' rebellion (so it wasn't Russia at the time).
Gems also blew up most of Australia and India then cut off part of Africa and super glued it to South America. I quit watching the show, so I have no idea why other than demonstrating that Gems can fuck things up when they feel like it.
avatar cucked out of killing tojo by introducing a fucking giant turtle ,gay and bluepilled , also muhh killing colonist(tbh jack was a jerk i am ok with how they handle it)
Korra was weird but semi-accurate to 1920s (amon was hitler btw ,he was literaly funded by a car bouj)
>>2579>avatar cucked out of killing tojo by introducing a fucking giant turtle
wrong. it was the best moment a kids show could have. blue pilled would have been the typical edgy cynicism of compromise. aang joins the pantheon of communist heroes like Rorschach and Geralt of Rivia
also listen to the giant turtles words. while dressed up in fortune cookie language, they're asserting dialectics as a path to universal truth. the giant turtle is Hegel. The show accurately depicted the limits of eastern philosophy(even his past life fellow buddhist succumbs to postmodern relativism) and had the hero adopt western rationalism to literally disarm indigenous power. if anyone was paying attention, the show would have been canceled for eurocentrism.
Dude calm the fuck down jesus
>>2579>avatar cucked out of killing tojo by introducing a fucking giant turtle
That was the very last 2 episodes, I think its tremendously unfair to judge the morals of the story by that alone given the entire story prior.
Also learn to write coherently MFW
Avatar is thoroughly steeped in an eastern mystic worldview. Korra is completely different and burgerfies everything.>>2579
The whole point of that arc was that Aang was being pressured to choose his avatar duties over his nearly wiped out culture, but he was determined to find a third option that would allow both. That's a much more radical lesson than "kill the bad guys because you gotta." The rest of the series has moments like that too where the characters find an inventive third option to an apparent dilemma. The show is anti Trolley Problem.
>>2542>>2544>More likely that Bismuth is wrecked because the bitch diamond realize that her cover would be blown if she stay along.
Steven Universe is literally about a libtard LARPing as a revolutionary, and when her charade is threatened by an actual revolutionary that has to be stopped. That's not even interpretation. It's the text of the show. Rose wasn't against shattering gems for any reason except she was actually Pink Diamond and (A) didn't want to get shattered and (B) Bismuth was going to spoil the illusion. It's retarded.
Read carefully mate
Retarded? Or devious in messaging? Now radlibs can’t critique an explicitly ounterrevolutionary shit show that literally wipes the Russian people off the face of the Earth because “Muh twans”.
As devious in messaging as anything. Liberal and counterrevolutionist ideology are the natural products of any private company in a capitalist market, and that's what CN is.
Obviously the Diamonds deserve to die and literally the worst that happen to them is being forced to say sorry
>Steven doesn’t give a solitary fuck about the worlds the Diamonds destroyed
>>2599> plow through people who in real life the argument could legitimately be made that they are "Just doing their job"
See Nuremburg, "Just following orders" is not a legitimate defense. Star wars and the Gems are quite different seeing how the underlings of Diamonds almost physically cannot refuse their commands… as opposed to Storm Troopers. >talk no jutsu
You keep using that phrase but I don't think you know what it means
White Diamond is a violent psychopath whose existence is a danger to the universe. Its the same as not doing anything while a known child rapist is casing playgrounds across your city, Sugar is sending a dangerous message that people like white diamond can be reasoned with when in reality they cannot.
>>2606>as opposed to Storm Troopers
Storm troopers are poor proles who would have died of poverty if they didn't join the empire, I mean they even purposefully miss their targets so they wont kill anyone
>>2697>Storm troopers are poor proles
The original storm troopers were clones of Jango Fett bred and made for war to the point where they were programmed with directives to kill the Jedi and subdue the populace. All storm troopers afterwards were either conscripts or taken from a young age. They were the elite. >purposely miss targets
>>2701>Being conscripted as canon fodder to die on some backwater planet millions of lightyears from home = elite
Ah yes, I remember the elite Russian and British armies of 1916
Didn't many stormtrooper and Imperial supporter's in general come from the Human ruling class of the centrist and mid rim world's
Also as we saw in solo stormtroopers were a different force than the recruit's
>>2703>conscripted as canon fodder
This stupid shit started from the Disney Star Wars with Finn and the academy in Rebels. Storm Troopers aren't fucking ordinary conscripts, they are, canonically fanatics, the elites equivalent to their literal namesakes, the STORM TROOPERS of the German military. The tier higher than them is the dark troopers and other specialized units equivalent to the Waffen SS.
As pointed out>>2705>>2707
These aren't ordinary conscripts. The closest modern equivalent would be the USMC.>the elite Russian and British armies of 1916
<storm troopers are just like WW-1 conscripts!
Stop talking about this as if you know Star Wars. For a site that loves to talk shit about muh liberalism
you sure don't know much about the shit you're try talking about.
if storm troopers are elite then who are the normal soldiers?
Watch the Disney Solo film. It's quite literally just ordinary soldier conscripts who do the shit-work. Storm Troopers are voluntary or are raised from childhood to be soldiers.
Oh yeah I agree, but its just an easy example of a mainstream depiction that doesn't delve into obscure EU lore books.
>/sug/ thread becomes a discount star wars thread
/sug/ thread on /co/ is cancer as shit. Nothing but coomers wanking on gems and retards screaming about liberal fake progressives without understanding the root cause.
It’s good to see somewhere you can discuss shit without being dog pile by /pol/tatoes.
don't you fucking insult potatoes
>>2710>Getting mad that a fellow spaceshitter has a different opinion on the fictional series that contradicted itself constantly even before the Mouse bought them off
Anon, in the Old EU they were frequently portrayed as just fucked over conscripts as well as the imperial marine force. And if you want autistic credentials, my favorite EU story was Legacy; mostly because the story of Cade Skywalker would be a far better sequel trilogy than the story of Ma-Rey Sue
The only good shit that came out of the old expanded universe was the Thawn books and the games. The rest are complete utter trash, which Disney somehow made even worse with the recent “canon” books.
>>2720>/sug/ thread on /co/
Not anymore, /sug/ is banned from /co/ onto /trash/ because they're so cancerous.>>2724>The rest are complete utter trash
Actually read EU materials instead of taking your info from shitty youtuber opinions and forum wanks. There are myriads of great ideas and concepts in the EU other than "muh Thrawn" >>2723>they were frequently portrayed as just fucked over conscripts as well
Depends on which part of the EU you're talking about. But you're not completely wrong, I'll give you that. >Cade Skywalker
Eyy my nigga
Fuck off, Star Wars Legacy and the Yuzzhan Vong War were Unironically fucking great, and the old Clone Wars comics work as a genuine war is hell storyline that actually makes the War out to be awful and pointless rather than fun like the TV show. And a lot of the history of Jedi and Sith was genuinely very interesting.
How do you feel about the Vong? I like how the old EU portrayed war as hell and not a fun adventure (at least the stories I read).
The Vong were an interesting concept and made the empire more than just "hurr le megalomaniac emperor!" They were fairly unique aliens too. >>2731>makes the War out to be awful and pointless rather than fun like the TV show
I would say the TV show was actually pretty damn gritty and have that same theme for a large portion of it.
didnt most of the super weapons were stolen by the CIS?
Also dark troopers are new canon shit
Anyway the only redpiled star wars groups were the CIS and CIS supporting rebels..
>>2734>most of the super weapons were stolen by the CIS?
Not that I remember. If anything the CIS essentially acted as a weapon testing group, which were later assimilated into the Empire's forces… y'know, shit like the giant Ion-cannons and the first death star>dark Troopers
Dark Troopers have been a thing long before the Disney nuWars, that's part of why they were so hyped up during the teaser trailers of Rogue One and why they were so disappointing.
Honestly one of the best parts of EU IMO, is how they expanded on Luke's power and abilities as "the chosen one"
Made a Star Wars thread, lets move there >>2737
I can't think of people more liberaland slacktivist than Rebecca Sugar and the rest of the modern animation industry
It’s funny how a single season could take me from loving this show to realizing it was always shit.
The tv show was really gritty for a CN show that’s for sure, not shitting on it at all I loved TCW; however one of the most famous arcs of the old Clone Wars comics is literally WWI in space, look up the Battle of Jabiim; it’s basically a miserable rain filled slog where the war is explicitly pointless (Civil War on some planet that was more or less collapsing their society, Palps got the Republic and CIS involved to make everything worse), the Clones are ruthless, the enemy even moreso. The conclusion of the arc is Anakin crying as he reads off the names of all his fellow padawan friends who died for nothing in the battle (Anakin is the only survivor). Honestly yea, the old comics did a pretty good job showing how the constant death and chaos fucked Anakin’s head up, a lot of stories with him begin with him cradling another dying friend.
Fuck, this right here is a great example of why I fucking despise Breadtube and their shitty liberal grift, legit shitting on Lily Orchard’s epic takedown of SU because “Muh twaaaaans”.
I hate liberals more than I hate my fucking boss.
whoever made this is wrong. Minerals are not rocks, stop with this revisionist bullshit
minerals easily fall under the category of Earth element and as such are just as easy to bend. Toph did use the "wrong word" but then again she is a rough kid who doesn't give a fuck soo
>>3000>Minerals are not rocks
<A rock is any naturally occurring solid mass or aggregate of minerals or mineraloid matter. It is categorized by the minerals included, its chemical composition and the way in which it is formed.
Minerals are a kind of rock in rough terms and considering that toph was bending crystals and minerals within METAL… its not a stretch to say she can bend the gems easily, especially given her feats.>>2998
Saw a video doing the same thing and it's literally all irrelevant whataboutisms angry virtue-signaling and other mental gymnastics for the damage control. At least on 4chan /sug/-fags are honest in that they just want to fugg.
I honestly don’t even get why any adult would be into Steven Universe at this point unless they’re mentally stunted (so, Breadtube) or in it for Rule 34.
Fuck, honestly what pissed me off so much was that Orchard’s video was honestly pretty on point and literally the only defense these people have is “muh LGBT representation”
These were the same people saying you need to like the Disney Trilogy because it’s supposedly
I was laughing about funny shit about this show but I accidentally clicked a link to a feminist subreddit (I won't say which for your own good) and the stupidity is simply staggering. From "Batwoman" to "supergirl" these idiots are terrifying levels of ignorant who strawman criticisms of their favorite media as "men shitting themselves over a female main character"
I just kept flashing back to Aliens and Terminator 2 and thinking "how can people say this crap seriously"
And the entire thread was just "haha men sexist stupid" jokes and strawmen, clling them stupid and ignorant… yet not reason why… This is why Steven Universe is so successful… because there are thousands upon thousands of dumbasses who eat and breath this rad-lib ideology.
Oh no, its a berserk thread.
I like Steven Universe
wasn't their 100th episode "guns are bad mmkay?"
That shit is probably worse than furry culture
>>2554>Korra takes that liberalism and adds SJW idpol to the mix.
No it's even worse. Aang was a liberal. Korra is a plain fascist who supports monarchy, and is in love with a war profiteer. Aang fought a feudalism regime trying to take over the world. Korra dunked on anarchists and republicans. The legend of Korra was incredibly reactionary and nobody noticed because the fascist main character was a bisexual brown woman.
yes it is
guns are bad AND communist revolution is bad. ep100 greatly alienated leftist fans of the show and whittled the base down to pacifist liberals.
>>2561>You literally don't understand the point of what talk no jutsu was if you're correlating it to this. You never saw this sort of blatant faggotry in Naruto. Naruto had its own dumb moments but never at this level of idiocy
Just wanna take this further and say Talk no Jutsu was actually great, a way for Naruto to confront his opponents as actual people and pit his philosophy against their own, a way for the protagonist to change others, himself, and proactively change the world around him.
It ain’t got shit on Steven crying bullshit where you stop space Nazis because you share some rock chromosomes with them. At least Naruto actually had to beat his opponents philosophically instead of this cry pity bullshit.
Video defending Talk no Jutsu to show what I mean, it was a decent storytelling mechanic:https://youtu.be/gH3Sh3hRV-c
Oh god I still remembered the shit show this show caused on /co/ once everyone realized that Season 3 shat the bed. Hilarious.
Yeah, it was just nonstop failure:>weird burgerized history that implies medieval europe analog was colonized by le ebil wypipo from their homeland of ???>star is sooper progressive for making her first policy mandate fighting waycism but is also the absolute monarch of a poverty-stricken and wildly mismanaged feudal kangdom of peasants>poor maneating monsters that dindunuffin but race essentialism goes completely completely unchallenged in spite of numerous allied kangdoms populated by things that look exactly as weird as "monsters">protag fucks up everything and loses her powers over and over, but gets them back better than ever each time>cool lovecraftian incomprehensible villain eclipsa watered down into mary sue>shoehorned romance boiled down to incessant bouts of back-and-forth cuckqueaning and completely unjustified breakups>infinity genocide ending
Why are all late 2010s cartoons shitshows?
The 2000s had great shows
And Gravity Falls was good
The finale of Star vs. The Forces of Evil has the "heroine" destroy magic, killing infinite numbers of sapient magical creatures in the process, and then merging an infinite number of parallel universes with earth, resulting in massive destruction and conflict
. This is presented as a happy ending.>Gravity Falls was good
Amen, which is of course why it's the shortest running of any of these shows, in spite of there being plenty more material in the sequel comics.
>>3692>The finale of Star vs. The Forces of Evil
Reminds me of what DC and Marvel have done before TBH>>3691>Gravity Falls
I found large portions of it to be annoying or mediocre, but the underlying story was interesting. I just can't get over the shitty art-style.
Tbh I just like the villain of Gravity Falls and the finale mostly
Will there ever be another Avatar you think? Originally I wanted to make a story kinda like that, but by now it’s just a brutal war is hell story that’s never gonna be a cartoon if it’s ever even made and it’s just about capitalism and the world wars anyway, so…
>>3695>Will there ever be another Avatar you think?
Probably not before we have communism. Nickelodeon definitely won't do it. They've turned too hard into being greedy capitalists and now all they have is Spongebob. Cartoon Network might fund something bold but they tend to stick with low budget Calarts stuff. Netflix is more open to experiment, but they cancel shit all the time for lack of views.>>3687
Didn't Adventure Time do this sort of thing too?
Why have cartoons become ideologically fucked, why would you ever tell kids this shit?
At least Regular Show had an okay ending
>>3694>I just can't get over the shitty art-style
It's such a shame the otherwise outstanding show was saddled with Calarts style considering that, style aside, the visual design had such tremendous care poured into it.
I had the same problem with later DCAU stuff. Even as early as the later seasons of BTAS, the once-beautiful art deco artstyle was getting annoyingly simplistic due to budget cuts, by the time of JLU it was practically abstract cubism.>>3698>Netflix is more open to experiment
They are the ones doing another show by a different group of A:tLA alumni, The Dragon Prince. I haven't seen it out of weariness from Korra, but the vague secondhand impression I've gotten is that it's bland and lacking passion.
>>3695>Will there ever be another Avatar
Probably, but not anytime soon. Or if soon, then not wildly wellknown.> I wanted to make a story kinda like that, but by now it’s just a brutal war is hell story
You write this out yet? What's it called?>it’s just about capitalism and the world wars
Honestly if you're having trouble then you might want to scrap it. The great thing about Avatar was that ideology was never on the forefront and the main story was simple
Aang is the [child of prophecy] who must save the world by defeating the Demon King… I mean the Fire Lord and restore balance with the help of his friends as he learns to master his powers. Everything else, such as ideological clashes, branch off of that or builds across it. Korra puts ideological differences on the forefront, and while that can be done and has potential, the biased liberalism of Brike means that it loses focus for the sake of bias. >>3699>why would you ever tell kids this shit
Brainwashing kids is easier than adults. A kid watching shit like The Loud House will think it and its messages are great, when its garbage compared to ATLA. >>3700> it's bland and lacking passion
Dragon Prince isn't terrible, it just has a lot of wasted potential, and early animation was poor. It's like RWBY in that regard.>the visual design had such tremendous care poured into it.
For Gravity Falls, yeah, the backgrounds were honestly well detailed and had an earthy feel. Not the best, but definitely good for a cartoon TV show. >>3698>artoon Network might fund something bold
Not since Disney took their asses. CN's days of being creative were over since things like TCW and Transformers: Prime stopped airing.
Don’t have a title yet, but my story isn’t a kid’s story, it’s pretty graphic and the main through-line is political intrigue and revolution. One of the inspirations is the comic book Über.
Really the only similarity to Avatar is elemental magic
There are plenty of non-kids story that don't use graphic description. Moreover too much political intrigue gets dry and boring. If you want an example of a good adult fiction with such a plot I suggest Заговор Аквитаний.
Seriously, try not to go too far with graphic description because it becomes over-packed.
It’s a comic I wanted to write, I do a lot of artwork, so it wouldn’t be graphic description
>>3698>>3694> Le Calarts meme
Not this shit again
>>3724>le beanface isn't REEL!!!
fuck off tumblrite.
Cal Arts is what Toonboom is called because thats where it originates from, because the taught "style" changes, starting from disney-princessesque style, to a more big-eyes animu style and denigrating into beanhead style with noodle arms.
Ah, I see. Well then might I suggest you look to Berserk and The Witcher then, as those work quite well with similar concepts.
Berserk is actually one of my inspirations lol, I just wanted to do a world akin to the Interwar Period because it’s one of the most interesting time periods to me
I'd say Gumball and GFalls have pretty good character design and art, so the meme is hardly accurate even if it's got a kernel of truth.
Gumball's main charactrs are toonboom, however their unique mix of art styles and meta plots make it better.
GFalls has good animation even if the style itself is of a poor type, and its story makes it intrigueing for children without resorting to shitty eye-candy.>>3727> just wanted to do a world akin to the Interwar Period
There is something akin to that on deviantart somewhere. This guy made a bunch of elfs and other fantasy humanoids as Bolshevik revolutionaries with steam/diesel-punk equipment. I can't find it anymore, but sounds similar.
Regular show was actually about breaking up the monotony of manual labor alienation. Way better than the other shows.
Most cartoons being ideologically fucked is just like everything in capitalism: cultural hegemony. Animation schools today are about training people to be the best wage slave ever with no creativity. The plot and art style are all controlled within focus groups and profit driven executives. A disease that now also infecting the eastern animation industry and to a lesser extent the comics. It’s different from the subsidized animations of the Soviet Union where there were no deadlines and the grants are given by community culture centers.
It’s a huge point where /co/fags ACTUALLY agree with us and a facet that we never use to agitate them. That and their discussion about
monopoly in comic distribution.>>3715>Über
Man that book went to shit after Gillen killed based Stalin and sucked off Churchill.
The book has Churchill die before any other world leader and later on they say he’s a monster and directly reference the Bengal famine. Stalin is the very last world leader to die, he dies even after Truman does.
It was pretty cringe how they killed him off tho, ngl, they tried to make it seem like he was bad for ordering a hit on Maria but she’s crazy bitch and most of what he does seems reasonable.
I don't get who's supposed to be "in the wrong" here. Everyone involved sounds like a fucking retard, from the bitch making a 2 hour rant on a kids show, the breadtube bitch complaining about said review to the redditors in your link.
Kiwi farms tier levels of autism
Exactly my point, they should all be shot
The funny thing is that the trans native american girl has succed in being the edgyest person on utube compared to breadttubers and teen neonazis
Seriously Stalin did the least wrong in that book. He actually foresaw Katyusha’s superhuman feudalistic plans from the start and tried everything to stop it.
But now since publisher went bankrupt at least we will never have to see the shitty future Gilles envisioned for the world.>>3743
I’m truly baffled to think that these people used to be considered based here. Christ on a bike.
<edgiest on derptube
Not that surprising really.
I'll take a minute to return on topic and explain why Steven Universe is liberal garbage because I think there is more things people aren't touching on. I will do this by comparing to a similar but better show, and one that directly inspired Rebecca Sugar: Revolutionary Girl Utena.
Revolutionary Girl Utena is a story about a girl named Utena Tenjou (the girl in pink) whom parents died from when they were young, receives a ring from a prince who promises to reunite with her one day. This inspires her to become a "prince" herself. One day, she gets dragged into a duel due to the ring she has over a girl named Anthy Himemiya (the girl with purple hair). She is the "rose bride" who has the power to "revolutionize the world". She wins and the rest of the show is Utena fighting the student council who wants to use Anthy for their own means while Utena wants to free Anthy from being the rose bride.
Anyone familiar with Steven Universe already see the similarities in both art and themes. Utena is a soaked in metaphor, like Steven Universe, on the contradictions on growing into an adult and reconciling them. The student council desires to escape the restrictions and embarrassment of childhood but, at the same time, the trauma of childhood prevents them from ever truly becoming adults. Utena believes she's fighting for everyone's freedom but we have an entire arc dedicated to explaining why Utena means of achieving freedom traps her in the system she seeks to end. Anthy is someone who is valued because she can "revolutionize the world" but her power comes from what she represents, not who she is, which is why she is treated like trash. This entire show is about Utena reconciling these contradictions, producing something greater from them, and rejecting the regressive, idealist notion of adulthood/society, giving herself the power to change the world. Some of you already realize that this sounds like the product of Hegelian dialectical thought, and I kinda think it is. Too bad Rebecca didn't carry this aspect to Steven Universe, only duels and gay girls.
Now let us talk about Steven Universe. Rebecca is doing the opposite of what Utena writers' did. Rebecca created a platonic circle of what is good and bad but constantly creates content that forces her to violate that morality.
For example, Bismuth talks about how the diamonds destroyed their friends and they should rightfully kill those fuckers for doing that. Steven uses "just as bad as the diamonds", bubbled her, and learns later on that Rose did shatter Pink Diamond. For a second, the audience realize that our pure and perfect Rose violated her own creed, something she imprisoned a gem for doing. We think for a second that maybe something happened that forced Rose to change, a contradiction that she had to reconcile in order to protect what is important to her. I also note in the same episode, this exact same thing happens to Steven and he is forced to reconsider what is good or bad.
"Lol, nope. Rose was pink diamond the whole time. She faked her shattering. See kids, she didn't kill anybody. Now, Steven, run along and make friends with the space tyran- I mean your family". Here, Rebecca stays within the confines of her perfect morality but, in process, creates a dangerous implication about Rose. She had the power the entire time to stop the war, tell her sisters what she really thinks, and stop thousands of gems from being corrupted. Instead on taking this fight to other colonies to avenge her comrades, she spent thousands of years having sex of humans and Pearl, met a dude she liked and had a kid that has to fix all of her problems. Rebecca is saying it's okay to torture thousands of gems, produce an unspeakable amount of problems for your son to solve because killing the three who are responsible for all this makes you "just as bad as them". Jesus, this is horrible lesson to teach kids.
Two things happened here. One, Rose who was given a chance for beliefs to grow and change dynamically is rewritten back into perfect person as to not contradict what Rebecca believes. Two, in the process, Rebecca created more contradictions that she just ignores or has to rewrite the morality of the show into a more idealistic, infantile nature to justify. This happens ad infinitum until world-destroying diamonds can be defeated by saying the equivalent of "no u".
This is why Steven Universe is the liberal abomination that it is and why it's celebrated as such. It reinforces every idea breadtubers have about their political beliefs. Their political beliefs are already perfect as they already are, and any attempt to change them is to challenge their 400+ IQ intelligence. You can have long speeches condemning people for being bad but never challenge the system that makes people bad (because they most likely benefit from it). If you do try to challenge the system, you're a crazy radical that deserves to be imprisoned forever or die. The real heroes are the ones who complain a lot and ultimately change nothing, basically every liberal out there.
For anyone that hasn't seen Utena, it should also be noted that the worldbuilding is extremely vague, silly to the point it's almost dreamlike, and the philosophical elements are conveyed directly by exposition for lack of anything concrete the audience can contrast them against.
This oddly threadbare style is IMHO aside from low animation budget
due in no small part to its reference toward live stageplays of the Takarazuka Revue theater company
Needless to say, this was also slavishly mimed by SU, to its detriment as a coherent story.
The fact that she is trans makes her more edgy
Sugar's idea of world building was to put rearrange some continents and say WW2 never happened with no real elaboration.
I don't think it was deliberately bad in that respect, I think it was just bad because the world of Steven Universe can't have conflicts, only misunderstandings. There can be no possibility of perspectives which are totally irreconcilable.
Did slavery and colonialism not happen in SU? If not, how are there white people and black people in America and why was Beach City once a colony?
Yeah I've noticed this too. Modern animators are weebs that want to make "western anime" but without any of the actual things that make anime good.
Kinda like how StarVs tried to ape Magical Girls and Sailor Moon but only with superficial level shit like dresses and transformations. Same shit with OK KO and shonen anime.
>>3762> say WW2 never happened with no real elaboration
Yet somehow Russia has a massive hole in it.>>3764
That's been the consensus since tumblr became a popular place for radlibs >>3739>2 hour rant
Because that's what their youtube channel is about. And at the very least it acts as a decent dissection of why a show is shit and shouldn't be watched by impressionable children.
ngl when i was young i really like my life as a tenage robot and the character really reminds me of the android girl ,with the retro style and all
The first thing I thought when I saw her was Sonic the Hedgehog.
I never said that the beanface or "Cal Arts style" doesn't exist, nor did I say that CalArts and other such art schools aren't making useless tumblrite drones that only know how to follow a certain standard that makes things easier to animate so that they can work at the big TV cartoon studios immediately, instead of making true artists that can animate anything.
It's just another animation trend and the trendy style changes every decade or two, not all cartoons on TV follow the trend
, and better 2D animation is certainly [b]not[/b] dying because there's a new cheap industry standard and a few shitty mainstream cartoons. But even then not all shows that use said style execute it in the same way; some do it better than others, and the style is by no objective means indicative of the series' quality (basically what >>3728
said). It's the knee-jerk reaction to the "beanface" that I'm tired of.
>>4003>It's just another animation trend
It's a trend that has been sticking for 10 years at least and is abhorrent and indicative of the further loss of quality in cartoons of the following decades… in the USA, where most popular cartoons are made. >not all cartoons on TV follow the trend
And they usually suffer for it. Gumball while experimental and interesting in parts, still had its MAIN characters use the same toonboom format. >better 2D animation is certainly not dying
It is because its not being passed down in easily accessible public circles, see pic 2> style is by no objective means indicative of the series' quality
It is important however, its like fanfiction. the idea and phrases may be good, but terrible grammar and line-spacing make it hard to read. >the knee-jerk reaction to the "beanface" that I'm tired of.
It isn't kneejerk at all, at least not for me, not to mention people in the thread just shat on the art-style in passing. If anything >>3724
feels like a kneejerk reaction to the mention of shitty artstyle.
>>4006>1st pic>Look over the non-burger side>Wonder if I see anything familiar>Hey look, Russian Melnitsa cartoons, those are pretty good>Let's look furth…>No… it can't be… after all those years…>Did I finally find it?>FUCK YEAH I DID! MALO KORRIGAN AND THE SPACE TRACKERS!!!
I can't thank you enough anon. I was passively searching for this cartoon for a good year or two. Even though it was so long ago, I remember what an amazing show it was. Also as far as I recall it was based and redpilled as fuck, the main villain literally was a Rupert Murdoch stand in if I recall correctly, and the show seemed extremely anti-capitalist. I unironically wonder if it was what made me to always be (even in my lib days) to be highly predisposed to leftist ideas. Will have to re-watch it some time.
>>2735>Dark Troopers have been a thing long before the Disney nuWars, that's part of why they were so hyped up during the teaser trailers of Rogue One and why they were so disappointing.
dark troopers =/= canon death troopers =/= EU death troopers (which was the result of a zombie plague)
the "running mascara" thing is insufferably edgy
all the lesbian fans wanted Spinel to be their abusive wife when the film came out, so the character design choice was at least effective, if cheesy and stupid as well.
Running Mascara can be done well (see All Eyes on Me) but with toonboom it looks like garbage.
So Rebecca Sugar has finally addressed the Diamond Hitler shitshow saying that Steven let them live because He's found his identity (after changing into a penis monster and other things).
>BUT THEY ARE FIXING IT. They only thought they were doing the right thing!
<Hitler only thought he was doing what's best for Germany, but now that we've captured him there's no need to punish him. He's reformed now and will do better
Yeah, try to fix the countless planets destroyed by the mining of resources and with them countless organic species Not to mention Diamonds can still do whatever they want since Earth's revolution didn't change in any way the existent hierarchy >https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn
Where is it though? The Diamonds shouldn't even be able to relate to ANY of what Steven is saying, the gems clearly have a much different understanding of emotion and society and thus the emotional appeal of a half-breed child ought to be worth jack-shit to a people who have spent millenia conquering and strip-mining the galaxy. >But they're undoing the damage
With asspulled powers that make no action have any consequences because "haha everything can be fix'd!">"B-but it's out of Steven's character for him to punish the Diamond Authority!"
Who says that Steven should be the sole judge of what's right and wrong? I'm pretty sure that they're are plenty of vengeful individuals who would love to put the space hitlers on the chopping block.
Honestly look at their shit:>Killed many planets worth of people>Yellow Diamond combined a bunch of Gems and stuck them in the middle of a planet>all the Diamonds ruled with iron fists like fascist dictators
Actions speak louder than words; nothing Rebecca says changes their actions
Honestly you'd think it was a joke until you see what "fans" say about it.
Steven Universe fans didn't want a joke about Hitler being the good guy, they actually wanted Hitler to be the good guy for real, but also they wanted Hitler to be a pretty (((girl))) who is also genderfluid pan demi gray cock-kin.
I feel like they were also trying to pull a "Naruto v Nagato" moment… except the whole reason Nagato has his god complex is his childhood trauma and inability to save his friend's death and failure at keeping on the path to peace making him a fallen hero and a mirror to Naruto. His ability to fix his latest mistakes comes at a cost and is part of his literal god powers and are not all-powerful (people still injured, Konoha still destroyed, Akatsuki still exists).
Why cant steven universe fags just accept they did some mistakes?
>>4033>So Rebecca Sugar has finally addressed the Diamond Hitler shitshow
that would require two things: maturity, and not being filthy liberals. SU fans and creators lack in both.
>>4035http://io9.com/steven-universe-is-a-show-about-fantasys-love-affair-1458060916But we won't necessarily see that many iconic villains on Steven Universe, says Sugar — the Gems aren't dealing with a particular person, but something "bigger than that." There's not "really a singular enemy." Instead, the conflict will be within the group, and it'll be about Steven figuring out what's right.
More here: https://www.vulture.com/2020/03/steven-universe-future-finale-rebecca-sugar.html>>4034>some mistakes
The entire thing was a mistake. For all the pretty, nice words Rebecca says in her interviews, it doesn't really show in SU at all, or is a shallow attempt at being deep.
I like the show and admit it doesn't make sense. I'm pretty sure /sug/ at /trash/ is the same. Pretending SU is some masterpiece or a "powerful" and revolutionary show is idiotic, something you would only find on Twitter/Tumblr/Reddit. It's just a fucking show, a failed project that tried to make sense with its message but wanted to be everything at the same time. Maybe if it abandoned all attempts at being deep and accepted itself as a simple fantasy cartoon it would've been better or people wouldn't hate it.
Most of the land that's missing is in rural Siberia, which is sparsely populated on top of not being the part of Russia that was the actual homeland of the Rus tribes that eventually became the Russians. Moscow, Novgorod, Smolensk, Kiev, and Kazan are all clearly still there in that picture so all you're really missing out on is Novosibirsk. So in other words Russia would still exist even though it would have as big a geographic landmass.
I can't speak for everyone but I've always acknowledged that it's not super deep and that it's flawed in many ways. For me it's always been about shallow escapism. It's a colorful and charming distraction from the horrors of my everyday life. I've seen many SU threads on /co/ and most of the fans I meet there are candid about the show's flaws too, so at least there people don't make it out to be something it's not.
Peridot is the best gem.
Decent video on why Star is shite for reasons other than its horrendous finalehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRa3C9F_EY>>3348>nobody noticed because the fascist main character was a bisexual brown woman.
People noticed, they just got called racists or butthurt.
>>2539> problems can be solved by being nice and respectful.
Thats not how Steven deals with problem. There is still a lot of violence. The point is violence doesn't solve long term problems
goddamn this SUCKS
he makes some joke about obama being a "diversity hire" and its so unironic conservative boomer humor it makes me want to put a gun in my mouth.
You know its fine to be a racist, fascist, whatever. As long as you're consequent in your thinking, that's all I ask. Someone needs to tell this guy that he has to choose between being an epic sjw troll OR a 20 year old that watches and discourses gay baby cartoons about a fairy princess. YOU CANT DO BOTH. They contradict one another. Either be trad and stop watching gay baby shows or stop pretending to have political opinions. Fuck, that sincere obama boomer joke is going to haunt me for week now. Fuck this guy.
I never really understood the comparisons between Diamonds and Hitler. Hitler more or less knew he was going to cause a lot of suffering onto Jews and people and in general and went with it, repackaging the impending suffering into lofty concepts.
But time and time again Diamonds has shown to be consistently unaware of the consequences of the actions they are making. Pink left Spinel alone on a whim without realizing the implications. Blue and Yellow didn't know they were hurting Pink until Steven lashed out and tried to escape. White still called Steven Pink till her defeat. It is like sleeping with a giant elephant, even if it doesn't want to hurt, it can always turn over and crush you.
Out of 4 of them, only Pink realized what they were doing was fucked coz she empathized with things around her and grew from her experience. Pink literally didn't know Earth's life was going to die until she actually explored it. The Pearl/Volleyball dynamic is also a good example of Pink trying (and failing) to not hurt things around her.
I am not saying Diamonds didn't fuck shit up and doesn't deserve to be punished, but painting them as malicious as Hitler misses the point. These diamonds were literal children oblivious to the suffering they caused. Sugar is trying to portray a world of good vs bad, not good vs evil.
And yea the show is very disgustingly liberal but I like the show for the parts that doesn't really have to do with the other three Diamonds. Also Little Homeworld is what communism will look like
Yeah, I always found the Hitler comparisons kind of vague and tenuous. The only basis for it is that the Diamonds are also authoritarian rulers but they're not that comparable outside of that. For one thing, the Diamonds would be right-wing traditionalists/reactionaries rather than right-wing radicals (like what fascists are, as they want to "reform" society rather than regress back in time or restore their country's monarchy). The gem empire is a weird theocratic monarchy ruled over by a triumvirate of God-like beings. They're definitely evil but they're aloof and detached in a solipsistic way in that the pain of their tiny, insect-like subjects is lost on them, whereas Hitler was malicious from the get-go. The NSDAP's goal was always genocide.
I have a lot of issues with the show's writing but I don't think convincing the Diamonds to stop being evil was a bad story angle to pursue. Realistically speaking, what else could Steven do under the circumstances? How feasible is it to try killing them? The Diamonds are literal Gods and they'd probably be even more unstoppable if they fused into some Shiva-esque cosmic destroyer. Even if he successfully iced them without accidentally getting the human race destroyed, the millions of fanatical and brainwashed gems would be mortified by this and view the Diamonds as martyrs. If they were hesitant about hearing the CG's out before then this would torpedo any chances of reconciliation. The subsequent civil war between the resurgent CG's and the loyalists would be even more brutal than the Earth uprising, only this time it would span across hundreds of systems and would drag on for centuries (if not millennia).
People making the Hitler comparison fail to realize that this isn't like the Nuremberg trials. You can't try Nyarlethotep and hang him for his crimes. Steven using his personal connection with the Diamonds to talk them down was not just the most pragmatic option but the only option that wouldn't result in ultra-WW2 in space.
>>4395>unironic conservative boomer humor
good god the meme is dead. We get it you're edgy hipsters who hate dad-jokes and are alienated from prior generations because of how toxic this society is. Great for you, get over it. >YOU CANT DO BOTH
Nigga who cares, that wasn't the point of the video. >that sincere obama boomer joke is going to haunt me for week now
If you're that pathetic, then you deserve the cringe you felt.>>4394>point is violence doesn't solve long term problems
That's what Rebecca claims and what they sometimes say, yet the show does not demonstrate this idea. >>4398>Diamonds has shown to be consistently unaware
They are aware, they just see non-diamonds as sub-beings who are unconcerning. Hitler was unconcerned for jews on a human level and as likely unaware of the personal details of the suffering caused by the Holocaust, and thus was not conscious of the inhumanity of it. That's why he did such a horrendous thing so casually. White diamond calling Steven 'Pink' is just the same as Hitler labelling all his enemies as Jew Bolsheviks indiscriminately. >they're children
No, no they aren't. This is like calling Cthulthu a child. >Little Homeworld is what communism will look like
No, blow off
Why are people comparing the diamonds to Hitler?
They are monarchs.
>>4412>they just see non-diamonds as sub-beings who are unconcerning.
If that were true, they wouldn't have been so mean to Pink and each other.
>Hitler was unconcerned for jews on a human level and as likely unaware of the personal details of the suffering caused by the Holocaust, and thus was not conscious of the inhumanity of it
You are missing the point. Hilter knew that the jews will suffer, he just couldn't care less. The Diamonds were practically unable to care or know that the things they were doing was causing suffering until Steven talked to.
>White diamond calling Steven 'Pink' is just the same as Hitler labelling all his enemies as Jew Bolsheviks indiscriminately.
FFS This is becoming ridiculous. Pink/Starlight was a name of affection for Steven. White didn't know Pink was really dead until the very end.
>This is like calling Cthulthu a child.
Sure why not?
>No, blow off
Prove me wrong.
>>4006>It's a trend that has been sticking for 10 years at least
I'd say that's pretty normal.>and is abhorrent
subjective>and indicative of the further loss of quality in cartoons of the following decades…>see pic 2
"quality" according to what standards? And if that's true then cartoons will get better as people both in the audience and the industry notice and put in effort to bring back good quality. There's already been, for example, increasing interest in receiving frame-by-frame hand drawn animation (of which an example is Steven Universe along with other "Toonboom" cartoons), so while this generation has had its downsides (some more subjective than others), there have been some improvements (or attempts at it). People and creators are acknowledging
that tradition and knowledge are being lost.>in the USA, where most popular cartoons are made.
If that was really important your first pic wouldn't look like that.
By the way, what a way to cherry-pick and generalize at the same time: the American side has only the current most popular cartoons by the biggest networks CN and Disney. Other than the fact that visually they only vaguely share some characteristics (most notably colorful bright palettes and lack of shading), they're not all the same genre and for the same demographic, not to mention that plot-wise they all vary in quality. Again, in this pic they only included CN and Disney's "current" stuff (they also include Adventure Time but suspiciously leave Regular Show out; basically shows that animation snobs enjoy shitting on).
On the "foreign" side, some of those animations are movies. Some are not aimed at children like most American cartoons are. There's a CGI series in there, for fuck's sake, why is there no equivalent on the American side when there are some recent or current CGI shows and an infinite supply of movies from the US? Whoever made this picture and those who use it to prove some point are completely ignoring the fact that each country has its generic ass style. Some are more cancerous than others, but there's always some standard that persists for years. La leyenda de las momias (one of the latest in a series of animated films that began in 2007)? It's also clear to me that they didn't actually see the goddamn thing, as that's just the poster. The actual movie's animation looks just like a Disney show or worse (they use tweening; I think the studio abandoned frame-by-frame a long time ago, and most of what they've been producing since then looks as shitty if not worse). A peek at other cartoons at least in the case of Mexico should reveal to you that they're not much better than Americans. In fact, it only shows the level of cherry-picking they did as there's virtually no Mexican animated series right now. Except probably just Villainous, what little animation there is, is just Flash and CGI, and half of it looks like utter shit, but of course they didn't use those as examples. In Japan, animation that is truly aimed at kids (which would be equivalent to the US presented here) is extremely formulaic and shallow (plot-wise, and you can include Miraculous Ladybug in this), and even though the drawings are "good" (and full of animation errors), the style is also incredibly generic. Better anime is actually aimed at older audiences and the more mature and artsy it is, the less profitable it is (wow, just like in the US!) Your Name, and to a lesser extent A Silent Voice, were exceptional cases in which a non-Ghibli Japanese animated movie got popular outside of the anime fanbase (of course, the image completely ignores American animated movies including obscure and better ones). Malo Korrigan is from the early 2000s… I'm getting the feeling that you've just been trolling this whole time. Nobody that knows what they're talking about would use that pic or the point it sloppily tries to make as an argument.
All in all it's evident and natural that these "Toon Boom" cartoons are just experimenting. Many of them trying to revive frame-by-frame hand-drawn animation and trying to provide more complex and mature stories with a message (though not all of them) while staying funny and kid-friendly. They don't always succeed because they try to do everything at the same time, when traditionally you can only have one or the other in American cartoons, and stories that aren't full-on drama/action or aimed at adults with serious themes were typically comedy and very episodic. Cartoons won't get worse just because there was a period where some Tumblrites tried to do something new in terms of writing and the drawings got rounder and brighter.
>>4463> they wouldn't have been so mean to Pink and each other.
Nope. Pink DIAMOND and the others were still one of them, even if estranged. A cat doesn't stop being a biological cat if it starts defending mice does it? >>4463> Hilter knew that the jews will suffer, he just couldn't care less
No, he did not. He saw their suffering as something comparable to the struggles of an animal. Read The Untermensch, it outright describes subhumans (such as jews and slavs) as soul-less imitations of humans who go through the same motions as people, emulating pain or emotion, but not really feeling it. This is exactly how the Diamongs view other organisms, except more detatched because of the galactic scale of things annd utter detachment from getting their own hands dirty. >Pink/Starlight was a name of affection for Steven.
Good god are yo really this deluded?>why not
<t.neverreadLovecraft>prove me wrong
Prove what wrong? Your entire circular apologetics?>unable to care or know that the things they were doing was causing suffering
Therein lies the problem. If they are so detached due to being so out of touch and NON-HUMAN they cannot emulate or understand that emotional spectrum from the talk of what amounts to a Human with OP Hax. This is a point of discussion used numerous times in Star Trek when meeting beings that were non-human entities and thus could not understand the motivations and emotions of humans, just as the human(oids) of Star Trek could not understand their motivations and emotions. This is the reason why I dismissed the "talk no jutsu" equivalency, the reason Naruto could do that was because, in the end, his opponents were human too and felt the same emotions and pain, and that on a base level that connects every human of past, present and future. Steven (if assumed more human than gem given his halfbreed status and human upbringing) literally has no way to connect to the Diamonds at all, or their motivations because from the human standpoint they are utter sociopaths, because they and their reasoning are outside of the realm of humanity, thus making their actions comparable to an unaware child. HOWEVER this is not the case because
A) Steven DOES connect to them, meaning that they DO have a level of understanding comparable to humans
B) Pink's actions and opposition to the other Diamonds on grounds of their actions being wrong, means that they can feel things and are somewhat aware
This means that they were aware of the consequences, and knew what such actions would invoke were it used against them and simply chose to view the life-forms they affected as sub-intelligences whose petty struggles and emotions were mere emulation.>>4471>subjective
<being lazy and promoting low-quality story-writing and political messages en masse is only "subjectively" wrong
Ok fag>according to what standards
Oh and here comes the "art is subjective" faggotry. >if that's true then cartoons will get better as people both in the audience and the industry notice
Ah yes because capitalism and monopolies won't just force through shit products. As explained.
A) The people who will notice the difference cannot make impact because against corporate monopoly not boycott will do anything, as numerous examples have shown for numerous products of the past decades
B) The Children who see this will see this level of crappy quality as standard and disregard actual quality as being necessary, because children below the age of 12 cannot view things like this objectively. >an example is Steven Universe along with other "Toonboom" cartoons
You really don't know anything do you?
Steven universe is not actually hand animated, if it were, it wouldn't look in the rubbery fashion it is. Sending poorly done ideas to be made in some Thai-sweatshop studio is not legitimate. >People and creators are acknowledging
They have been acknowledging it for a decade and nothing is changing>there have been some improvements
All improvements made are due to technological advancement, something that in no way excuses the shitstyle>If that was really important your first pic wouldn't look like that
You're kidding right? All of the shows from the USA DOMINATE the market and push out any of the others out as unprofitable in comparison.> they only vaguely share some characteristics
Having slightly different curvatures for the beanface or other rounded "designs" is not vague at all. They're all the same shapeless rubbish with only 3 layers of animation most of which is on loop. Its like shitty flash-animation from the early days of newgrounds.>they're not all the same genre
Outside of Gravity falls they are almost all exclusively goofy color-noise comedy focused with dumb liberal idpol inserted for plot. Its like jangling plastic toys on a keychain in front of a baby while reciting a liberal-feminist gender-essay. >Leave Regular Show
Because Regular show, while not my cup of tea clearly uses a drastically different art-style. There is no beanface and the 'style' has plenty of detail and some shading that gives it more dimension. Similar to Gumball actually. >when there are some recent or current CGI shows
Clone Wars was revived recently and is, like many other actually decent CGI in the USA, a relic of late 2000s animation along the lines of Transformers Prime. Moreover they are the exception not the rule. Pixar is also unique as it is a nearly independent part of Disney (even then a decline in quality is starting to show). Disney movies are not the topic of discussion, as the budget of 1 film is larger than the collective budget of all the pictured animations.>Ladybug
While there are animation errors, Ladybug has a lot of good quality in it and in both plot and style blows away a lot of competition. Its not great, but certainly better than SU, StarVFE, Loud House or any other downright indefensible garbage. >I'm getting the feeling that you've just been trolling this whole time
The only feeling I'm getting is that you don't pay attention>some of those animations are movies
So are several of the USA side that's irrellevant given the point of contention and comparison. You're nitpicking t this point. >just experimenting
No, they aren't and that is the entire problem. They are being used as the go-to for animation studios in the USA to mass produce shit that is atrocious in every way from the forced liberal politics, to the lazy art-style to the rubbery animation. It's lazy crap. Experimenting is what we get with Gumball. >provide more complex and mature stories with a message
Inserting politics =/= automatically mature and complex, nor is complexity always a good thing.
Mighty Max, a cheap toy-based 80s show with cheesy dialogues and good animation was more complex and mature than anything from Steven Universe. >while staying funny and kid-friendly.
You can't do that, otherwise the tonal shift becomes downright bipolar to the point where the show's message is trashed. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
A show like Clone Wars or Avatar the Last Airbender had humor and jokes, but it put them in appropriate scenes. How retarded would it have been to have Aang see the corpse of Monk Giatzo and then Sokka makes a comment about no meat again. Except becuse they all look like rubber caricatures, the impact of a skeletal corpse surrounded by death firebenders would lack the impact and thus make the "joke" less horrendous unless you think about it for more than a second. But because these kinds of toonboom shows hop around from scene to scene like a monkey on Crack, you don't have time to think, just absorb this eye-candy kid, turn your brain off! >Cartoons won't get worse just because there was a period where some Tumblrites tried to do something
You are very naive and I envy that… the near future is dim my friend, because LSC is a bitch. Honstly toons are going through the same shit as anime - a million garbage shows with some good ones - for the past several years.
>>4532>Nope. Pink DIAMOND and the others were still one of them, even if estranged. A cat doesn't stop being a biological cat if it starts defending mice does it?
That is not an argument. All four diamonds were mean or insensitive to each other in their own ways, Pink included with temper tanturm and fake assassination. You haven't disprove anything, just insisting things to be true coz you said so.
>This is exactly how the Diamongs view other organisms, except more detatched because of the galactic scale of things annd utter detachment from getting their own hands dirty.
No they did not, they literally could not even conceive of human as a fellow organisms. Pink didn't know humans could grow even spending thousands of year on Earth. That is the biggest difference between Hilter and Diamonds. The former constantly degrade other races as subhuman, but the latter did not perceive humans as beings like gems. Or even their fellow like themselves
>Good god are yo really this deluded?
Are you seriously implying that White didn't treat Steven as Pink and like a mother dealing with a rowdy child that she still loves?
Clearly you haven't if you think Cthulhu is some malevolent being.
>Prove what wrong? Your entire circular apologetics?
Rich coming from the one whose counterarguments are nothing but "nuh uh"
>This means that they were aware of the consequences, and knew what such actions would invoke were it used against them and simply chose to view the life-forms they affected as sub-intelligences whose petty struggles and emotions were mere emulation.
Are you like autistic? They weren't aware of the consequences until Steven made them aware. That is the whole point of the ending. Steven is the bridge to help them understands that humans are like gems and gems are like them. Just because beings or aliens do not understand humans doesn't mean they cannot do so.
I would compare the Diamonds to Leopold II or any other Age of Imperialism ruler who sought to expand to alien and foreign lands in extract its resources for profit (or production of Slave-Soldiers in the show's case) all while having no regard for the native population like the Congo Free State.
Who is that woman pointing that gun?
She's got great axilla
>>4533>That is not an argument
Yes it is. You keep stating that they're different yet can't seem to make up your mind as to whom they can understand or not. If Pink Diamond was like them and reached a level of empathy for the suffering they caused, it stands to reason that the other Diamonds - adults of their race and 'leaders/rulers' would be aware as well and simply be uncaring.> All four diamonds were mean or insensitive to each other in their own ways
A child can bully its sibling, that does not mean they do not care for them. This applies to adults as well. >You haven't disprove anythin
You haven't PROVEN anything to begin with, just made an asinine apologism for a race of imperial space faggots. >just insisting
I used a logical argument because Rebecca and the show have nothing concrete (no data-books or actual explanation) and cannot put most of its ideas into a story to save her life, outside of a contradictive "violence bad" >No they did not
<could not even conceive of human as a fellow organisms
That's literally what I'm saying you dolt>The former constantly degrade other races as subhuman
Again, have you READ Der Untermensch? Do you understand what is meant by sub-human? To the Nazis and Hitler, they are facismiles of humanity, human-shaped beings with no soul or actual life in them, like a programmed robot in West World.>seriously implying that White didn't treat Steven as Pink
No, it just screams about your misunderstnding of the entire issue.>like a mother dealing with a rowdy child that she still loves
LOL and with this you confirm my point from before>if you think Cthulhu is some malevolent being
As the rest of your response demonstrates you lack reading comprehension. I stated that stating the Diamonds are like children is to call Cthulhu a child. Malevolence does not enter the equation here. >nothing but "nuh uh"
If you can't follow an argument tht doesn't eual "nuh uh" you blooming baby>They weren't aware of the consequences until Steven made them aware
Except that makes no fucking sense, as I pointed out. Either they aren't aware and thus cannot connect or even begin to understand. Or they can be helped, but then have to be aware on some level. >Steven is the bridge
Which makes no sense considering his character as I explained>Just because beings or aliens do not understand humans doesn't mean they cannot do so
fucking hell, I have to ask if YOU are autistic m8. My point was that if Gems are such alien life-forms that they do not register humans as real feeling beings, then they would scarce be able to understand or have the same range of emotions and empathy towards them, which means, human raised and thinking Steven cannot relate to them and they cannot relate to him. However since this is demonstrated as untrue, that means that they CAN comprehend suffering the the concept of humans being living beings, and so chose to ignore this in their destructive campaign(s).
Do you even understand how "becoming" works and how that it is not the same as "being"? Just because Diamonds became aware of consequences doesn't mean they were aware of it in the first place. Having the potential to do something doesn't they can do it. Children are born with the potential of morality, but they started out being amoral until they learn about consequences. Diamonds are no different.
>Again, have you READ Der Untermensch? Do you understand what is meant by sub-human? To the Nazis and Hitler, they are facismiles of humanity, human-shaped beings with no soul or actual life in them, like a programmed robot in West World.
Are you actually incapable of reading what I said? Hilter made an effort to dehumanize others but Diamonds didn't "humanize" anything around them to begin with until Steven came along.
>>2561>Steven Universe is irredeemable garbage with shitty, lazy animation, inconsistent designs, a toxic fanbase of id-polers who make bronies look sane, tuneless 'songs', no story-boards, bad animation made in some Far-East sweatshop, ridiculous 'plot', anti-revolutionary liberalism, gender fluid rubbish etc.
Aaaaaannnndddd SOLD to the NEET for one dollar! You really made me want to see this.
>The list of everything wrong with Steven Universe could fill a book if one analyzed the whole show,
Write it! Just do it, faggot! :D
Not mine post, but check this one out:https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:49280
Can we even talk about how the entire show revolved around a little kid who gets in the way of awesome fighting superheroes who try to save the Earth? Steven is a fatto who eats 10 meals a day and ruins everything. The show shouldn't revolve around him. I think this show needs to make the change that Gravity Falls made: less on personal crud that won't even matter in the long run, and more on the KA-BOOMO and plot solving.
Also, every single character on this show is OVERPOWERED!!! Let's talk about Pearl. SHE DEFEATED ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL GEMS IN THE UNIVERSE COMBINED WITH A POWERHOUSE!!! The only two times that she was truely beaten were by clones of herself. Garnet has freaking FUTURE VISION and super strength, and Amythest can pretty much shape-shift into anything she wants. I would like to see some limitations.
This series is also running out of ideas. The quality of the shows are obviously going down. One of the first episodes was about the team rushing to the top of an important gem landmark in an attempt to save it and keep some gem culture in the Earth. One of the most recent episodes was about Steven getting scared by monster movies (another reason why is is the worst main character ever) and Ronaldo's friendship issues with Lars. Plus, now these episodes are so predictable it makes me want to cry.
The show had so much potential, but then Rebacca Sugar had to stretch her luck with 52 episodes in one season, and then screwing it all up. Clarence is making another season, hopefully with more action. Adventure Time is at least trying to change their episodes so they are plot heavy. Regular Show and Teen Titans Go made the plot-heavy decision a long time ago. Even Uncle Grandpa is trying to improve, with the introduction of Aunt Grandma. But what is Steven Universe doing? Using the same cliche plot twists. Seriously, this cartoon needs to be cancelled.
>>4543>Just because Diamonds became aware of consequences doesn't mean they were aware of it in the first place
To become aware they must be unable to be aware of the obvious. This is clearly not the case as demonstrated with Pinks opposition>Are you actually incapable of reading what I said
I have you dolt, you seem to be unsure of what You actually want to say besides "muh unaware Diamonds" which is a shitty excuse. >Hitler made effort to dehumanize
he made the effort to dehumanize them in the eyes of OTHERS, but in his own eyes already believed his lie>Children are born with the potential of morality, but they started out being amoral until they learn about consequences
The Diamonds are far from children in terms of age and development. Lacking maturity or behaving like a brat does not equal actually having the comprehension of a child.
Moreover Children are born with certain senses of right and wrong, which are influenced by their surroundings but still exist. Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequences. Mature decisions based on this understanding depends on upbringing, but the basal concept is inherent. Empathy is not born out of social interaction, as it is an inherent part of being a human and without it, no manner of learning will truly bring them understanding - those people are called sociopaths as they do not understand nor care for how to empathize. >>4559>really made me want to see this
If you WANT to see that you're lost my friend>do it
Why waste my time? Each episode is the same set garage.
>>4566>To become aware they must be unable to be aware of the obvious.
No that's not how English/concepts works.
>I have you dolt, you seem to be unsure of what You actually want to say besides "muh unaware Diamonds" which is a shitty excuse.
All you do to is make assertion and dismiss anytime I referenced things from reality as a counterpoint. You are browbeating everyone ITT with your very rigid and imperfect worldview
>Moreover Children are born with certain senses of right and wrong, which are influenced by their surroundings but still exist. Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequences
But that's not true at all. Sociopaths, psychopaths and Feral childs exist very varying degrees of understanding of pain and consequences. You are taking the status quo from granted.
>Empathy is not born out of social interaction, as it is an inherent part of being a human and without it, no manner of learning will truly bring them understanding - those people are called sociopaths as they do not understand nor care for how to empathize.
Being empathetic doesn't mean being nice/moral just your capacity to understand it. Thats what sympathy is for. You are right that empathy isn't born out of social interaction, but you need social interactions with empathy to understand morality/consequences and sympathy to let it affect yours.
If anything Hitler was extremely empathetic to know what and how the German people think and want in order to manipulate them. What he lacked was sympathy, unable to take the suffering of others as his own. The Diamonds are the exact inverse, unable to understand others' feelings but willing to be considerate to others once they are. Again the dynamic between Pink's treatment Pearl/Volleyball shows how Pink was able to correct her behaviour once she was aware of consequences but still doing it poorly coz she didn't know what Pearl wanted/felt
Go back to /co/ sperg
Go back to reddit >>4569>not how English/concepts works
Yes it does. To become aware of something you have to be unaware of it in the first place
- Unaware: having no knowledge of a situation or fact
- Awareness: knowledge or perception of a situation or fact.>make assertion and dismiss anytime I referenced things from reality
I make a logical argument based on definitional consistency and the show itself
As for reality, where? You keep misinterpreting both Hitler AND the Gems. No-one is saying they're 1 for 1 identical but their actions have nazi ideals within them. No-one said their entire social structure was exactly as nazi Germany, but that they as "leaders" were like Hitler. >browbeating everyone
I ignore the posts that I agree with unless I have something to add to them. >that's not true at all
Yes it is. Empathy is a learned trait but has inherent roots in most people that grow with stimulation and will exist in rudimentary form. > very varying degrees of understanding of pain and consequences
That's literally what I said. You're just trying to gainsay me because you're assblasted>Being empathetic doesn't mean being nice/moral just your capacity to understand it
Empathy is in laymans terms the ability to feel what another person is feeling. So if you've broken your leg or suffered the loss of a person you care for, you can empathize with someone else who suffers the same pain and emotions. With a Sociopath you lack the actual understanding of the emotions because they are at best muted and at worst non-existent, making the person indifferent. Pain and suffering evoke nothing from them, however even the most basic non-sociopathic person with rudimentary empathy will feel something. Pink did, despite her ignorance and acted upon this. This implies that Diamonds are both able to empathize with humans and other similar life-forms and are aware of this to some extent. The Diamonds may not know the details of their campaign on earth but they are aware of it occurring and of the environment/life there. >you need social interactions with empathy to understand morality/consequences and sympathy to let it affect yours
Correct. However the Diamonds have precisely that. They are quite long-lived and Pink demonstrated an awareness of some level and clearly tried to carry this across. > Hitler was extremely empathetic to know what and how the German people think and want
He was empathetic to Germans because he saw them as people, his people, the great people, and saw "untermensch" as being a cancer to his people who weren't really alive in the first place and thus deserved no empathy. This is what I've been getting at. >Pink was able to correct her behaviour
That is a detail. How to deal with consequences still speaks of awareness and the attempt to amend errors. The other diamonds, despite being of equal rank to Pink in the regard to such understanding, chose otherwise.
>>4578>To become aware of something you have to be unaware of it in the first place
But that's not the same as saying "must be unable to be aware of the obvious". You do realize the difference right? The difference being unable to be aware vs being unaware? So why are you arguing that the Diamonds were always aware therefore guilty and using Pink gaining awareness as an example?
>make a logical argument based on definitional consistency and the show itself
You have made zero examples of the show's events to make your shows, even mock me for doing so. FFS You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's Untermensch.
>but their actions have nazi ideals within them
Oh fuck off, reproduction for its own sake is hardly "nazi ideals"
>Empathy is a learned trait but has inherent roots in most people that grow with stimulation and will exist in rudimentary form.
You are saying nothing, either empathy is innate or learned. You can't have your cake and eat it.
>That's literally what I said. You're just trying to gainsay me because you're assblasted
Bruh, you claimed that "Any child understands the concept of pain and the infliction of it on others, and the consequences" how then can you explain the fact that feral children, sociopaths and psychopaths don't experience this (although it is with varying effects for feral children and not statistically recorded) without dehumanizing them? Oh but go ahead, dismiss everything I said and call me mad like you always do.
>Empathy is in laymans terms the ability to feel what another person is feeling. So if you've broken your leg or suffered the loss of a person you care for, you can empathize with someone else who suffers the same pain and emotions.
No genius, empathy is about guessing/understanding what another person is feeling. What you are describing is sympathy. If I have good empathy, I don't need to break my leg or suffer the loss of a person to understand what you are going through. If I have sympathy, I would feel as though I got my leg broken or family lost
>This implies that Diamonds are both able to empathize with humans and other similar life-forms and are aware of this to some extent. The Diamonds may not know the details of their campaign on earth but they are aware of it occurring and of the environment/life there.
Again being able to do something, doesn't mean they can do it. The Diamonds did not know about the suffering they are going to cause until Pink spent time on earth. Having the capacity for Empathy (and sympathy) is nothing without the social interaction to use both of them to understanding others. The Diamonds did not get an opportunity to do while Hilter clearly did.
>This is what I've been getting at.
Yes and the Diamonds didn't see anyone as 'their' people even each other, hurting each other just as they hurt Gems and Earth, with varying effects due to varying levels of power.
>The other diamonds, despite being of equal rank to Pink in the regard to such understanding, chose otherwise.
The Diamonds didn't had a choice, they weren't born the last and small, they didn't break their Pearl, they didn't colonized/visit Earth, they didn't meet Greg etc etc. Only until Steven arrived to enlighten them about what they are doing to others and each other did they had a choice.
>>4581>You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's Untermensch.
You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's Jew Bolsheviks
Lil's Canadian right
>>4581>must be unable to be aware of the obvious
True, however, if Pink can understand that means that it was obvious enough that the other diamonds would have been able to be aware if they bothered to care, but they did not. >the Diamonds were always aware therefore guilty
Because they were choosing to dismiss what Pink learned because it was problematic to their worldview. >made zero examples of the show's events
Scroll up. Unless you mean specific examples down to scene and dialogue, which you didn't do either for that matter. The general parts of the story I referenced repeatedly. (Steven bitching at the Diamonds for example). >You compared White's Starlight to Hitler's Untermensch
Fucking when?>Jew Bolsheviks
Fucking when?! I said that about Diamonds indiscriminate behavior towards Pink and Steven, ignoring their differences, the same way Hitler lumped, say German-blooded dissidents with ethnic Jews under "le bolshevik threat". Again I did not say its a 1:1 match, but a similarity, demonstrated in my simile "LIKE [X]">reproduction for its own sake is hardly "nazi ideals"
No, but imperialist colonization and not acknowledging the the humanity of foreign "races" as being real is definitely Nazi. Don't be obtuse. >either empathy is innate or learned
Empathic ABILITY is innate. However actual adult empathy where we can discern right from wrong to the individual level (such as different types of crime being punished with different levels of severity) is learned. Without learned/taught empathy emotions are not as clear and reactions are more instinctual, so pain inflicted would result in a direct response, or lack of one if the pain is sufficient enough to cause fear. Empathy is not something that is precise because it is an emotional concept that can be both minutely precise and very vague. >how then can you explain the fact that feral children, sociopaths and psychopaths don't experience this
Sociopaths are people who are born with a DEFECT. Psychopaths are also DEFECTS, they are not common, and also have tiers. Some sociopaths merely have stunted emotions while others lack them utterly. Some psychopaths are maniacs while others are just overly aggressive. Feral Children are usually normal, their empathy just lacks the finesse and precision gained by social interaction.
I don't see what is so hard to understand. >without dehumanizing them
I never dehumanized them to begin with, but ok, ass.>dismiss everything I said and call me mad
I dismiss what you say because you wholly misinterpret what I am saying and thus end up arguing against a strawman of my argument… or an out of context part of it. This is why I stated your reading comprehension is poor.>empathy is about guessing/understanding what another person is feeling
<you're describing sympathy
No idiot. This entire "no u" is exactly what I'm talking about. You have everything tipsy-turvy i your head. Sympathy is best exemplified with, say Pity for someone's loss, while empathy would be to actually RELATE and FEEL that loss. Sympathy is essentially from a bystanders point of view. You can have sympathy for someone when you have never experienced their feelings, but to empathize with them requires a relateable experience of similar sort. >being able to do something, doesn't mean they will do it
FTFY>The Diamonds did not know about the suffering they are going to cause until Pink spent time on earth
But afterwards what changed? It took Steven nearly destroying them to have them throw their hands up and cry surrender despite there being no reason for them to actually understand why. >The Diamonds did not get an opportunity to do while Hilter clearly did
The difference is in scale. Hitler did not interact or travel far internationally for most his life. Expand Hitler into a galactic conqueror and you get the same thing. His conclusions were made by essentially taking the views of the upperclass and embracing them. The Diamonds were the upper-class to begin with. That is their principle difference. Action and belief-wise however, they are largely similar. > even each other, hurting each other just as they hurt Gems and Earth
Which would imply a lack of a human type of emotional sympathy and empathy and closer to that of some eldritch being. Something contradicted by Pink's display of empathy. This goes back to my original point. They can't be so violent and indiscriminate of others humanity and subsequent treatment of them yet simultaneously have the potential for awareness. They aren't animals who have basal instincts and rudimentary intelligence, thus their basic moralities are either different or completely rejected. It can't be both (realistically) however this is SU, inconsistency is its white bread and butter substitute.>Only until Steven arrived to enlighten them about what they are doing to others and each other did they had a choice.
Which is retarded and inconsistent as I said. (Not to mention is sounds like the "Missionary priest comes to educate the heathens" cliche)
Honestly this argument is pointless. SU is written and made so inconsistently that both sides can be argued ad nauseum. The point is that if we follow the idea of the ending, The Diamonds were acting like a bunch of entitled cunts purposely staying ignorant of their own crimes OR they are just so inhuman that the concept of ethics and morality is totally foreign (in which case Steven really shouldn't be able to change their views except by forcing them to stop - which he did - and verbally surrender to his ideology while not actually understanding or caring about it and only listening because the alternative is annihilation.
TL;DR: Either they were assholes who pretended they were doing no wrong because ignorance is convenient OR they are so inhuman as to have no concept of morality and thus had to be subjugated by Steven's OP Hax.
>>4608>if Pink can understand that means that it was obvious enough that the other diamonds would have been able to be aware if they bothered to care, but they did not.
They didn't have the same experiences as Pink, though
You're making want to hit a brick wall… You're as bad as one.
1) They can quite literally fuse and Pink can carry across her experiences in that way
2) Pink has a mouth and words she can explain, or at the least try to convince the others to experience what she did
3) Pink had to be somewhat aware to begin to comprehend the ideas she realized. If she was able to be aware, so COULD the other Diamonds.
Eh, fuck the show. Peridot is the only based one and she gets browbeaten into submission. Everything else sucks
>>4954>Korra is absolute lib shit, see below
Nice links (seriously, finally we get a genuine communist review of LoK), however you could just link to the Avatar Thread, which deconstructs Korra faggotry far better.
Also its not entirely inaccurate to the 1920s aesthetic (until you hit giant mecha territory in Season 2), however it fails to earn up to it because - as Lily Orchard put it - the development of the Elemental Nations are not parallel to that of our world and thus technology would clearly evolve differently.
Go ahead and watch it, it's pretty fun and relaxing.
>>5061>pretty fun and relaxing
Well if you like a yelling kid and inane nonsense to melt your brain… maybe
Why are cartoon fags such whiny bitches?
When cartoons are full of whiny bitches so are the cartoon fags… cause and effect.
Yeah I mean, why can't they just let people watch whatever they want.
A month late, but the guy EZPZ is a guy named Oddguy from Encyclopedia Dramatica. He's an israeli jew, in case if you're wondering why the weird political inconsistency
>>5275>EXPZ is Oddguy from Encyclopedia Dramatica
Because people sometimes don't know whats actual quality if they don't have the education and availability of it. People are crazy for The Loud House and SU, both shallow series that mascarade as having "deep messages" which is utter horseshit and even if it were true, the format and actual visual media presented undercuts this. You can't have something that works both for babies and more mature children because their needs are contradictory. Ben 10 (OS) is a show aimed at 10 yer olds, its not super-deep but it carries some basic good messages and conveys a coherent, fun story with a kid being an alien superhero, and in the process of being one, learning his weaknesses and developing as a character.
Steven Universe has a similar concept Stevens dad being someone connected to the whole Gems/aliens like Grandpa Max, and Connie (supposed to) be the smarter mature foil to Steven, like Gwen is to Ben, or the Gems are Stevens main 'power' like the Omnitrix is for Ben. However the difference is execution. The animations is worse, the art-design is lazy. The characters are unsympathetic; Connie comes off as too meek, like a flat imitation of Katara from ATLA rather than Gwen's haughty yet usually correct assertiveness, Steven is an infantile whiner who sounds like someone took the Naruto dub and put it through a wringer 3 or 5 times and acts like a child 1/2 his age, the Gems, being independent 'persons' have their own characters unlike the Omnitrix alien forms, however they act like a band of ideologues and might as well be NPCs controlled by Steven, something pointed out by Peridot when analyzing the cluster. Steven's Dad is a mix between a hippie, and a yuppie who lost his property in alimony payments and generally is useless. Neither assertive enough to tell Steven off for shitty behavior, nor does he have specific powers or knowledge, It would have been easier to just have him be gone.
The themes are contradictory and in the attempt to be "DEEEEP" ends up being shallow and boring.
TL;DR: people used to shit content are going to like and want shit content and part of being leftist is to analyze and assess the validity and quality of what we consume, preventing us from degrading to where any shite blob on the screen is "entertainment" (like the Emoji movie or other rubbish), this is why we cannot withhold criticism of quality.
literal tranny and gay propaganda aimed at children, sickening.
>>5276>You can't have something that works both for babies and more mature children because their needs are contradictory
I dunno, stuff like Rocky & Bullwinkle or The Muppet Show seemed to simultaneously nail material suitable for everyone from small children through tweens to adults pretty admirably.
Obviously that sort of multi-demographic appeal can't work for every story, but it can certainly be done.
The Muppets and Rocky and Bullwinkle (which I grew up with) have mature themes, but with a certain measure of what to include that would make sense to children, and what to leave for later ages. You didn't see unsubtle gender stuff, and sexual innuendos were meant to make the adults laugh while going over the kids' heads. Modern Sesame street has been dabbling into this whole gender stuff and you can see the kids on the show are fucking confused. Its like with Drag Queens going to schools, the kids just get weirded out by the "the strange clown man-lady".
Yeah, that's just a question of writing ability. A good writer, even given a restrictive mandate like "make a 30-minute toy commercial", can still churn out excellent, deeply nuanced television suited to many audiences and repeat viewing. A hack writer, even given amazing grants like "write a mature boundary-pushing story", will still produce shallow garbage that looks down at its audience.
I did consider naming edutainment stuff like old Sesame Street or Beakman's World as examples too, but thought maybe they were a bit too directly targeted at young children for other audiences (especially the infamously insecure teenage audience) to both stumble on and admit to watching, compared to the two shows I mentioned.
Yes, this is certainly something I agree with, however while themes about good and evil can be done maturely even for children, themes about sexuality are much harder and rather unnecessary. Children, no matter what liberals say, do not understand sexuality and are not interested in it. At age 5 I was of the impression that kissing on the lips is what lead to pregnancy. At age 8 I thought girls were gross. At age 12 I was only beginning to become sexually awake, and this was generally the rule for all of my peers. Its the reason why under-age sex is illegal - pre-teens and younger have no understanding of this kind of thing,
>>6984> that doesn't preclude the use of themes that fly over childrens' heads, without beating anyone over the head.
True, but that's what differentiates things like crossdressing gags in old cartoons and unironic crossdress in modern ones.
I think there's an additional wrinkle in the case of shows such as SU, which (so far as I can tell from the marketing) aren't targeted any lower than middleschoolers at minimum. Since sex (or at least romance) is on the menu, this raises the question of writing such material without choking the show to death.
As the discussion of AtLA vs. AtLoK upthread demonstrates, this can either be something that develops naturally from well rounded characterization, or something that feels shoehorned and boring regardless of if it was part of the earliest conceptions of the story.
SU was being watched by a literal elementary school neighbor's kid. She was so obsessed with the show she decided to imitate them and became obsessed with gender politics when she got into highschool last I saw her (after all the show has been since 2013). That shit was airing on CN and that content was always for kids of 12 and under. Besides, you think most parents who work all the time have any time to moderate what their kid sees? They just put up youtube kids or netflix or CN and let everything play. Even if you claim its not aimed at kids, the style is so simplistically cartoonish that it lends itself to that exact demographic, sort of how Rick and Morty does before parents hear the swearing. >sex (or at least romance) is on the menu, this raises the question of writing such material without choking the show to death.
Indeed, that is appropriate and possible IN a show, but it has to progress naturally (as in ATLA). Steven Universe just comes off as "hey lets just jump your bones cause funsies!" which
A) makes sex utterly casual (which is a bad thing to teach children considering that sex is an adult decision often with consequences)
B) makes the idea of growing a relationship meaningless
They try to fix this with the whole Garnet situation but it just comes off as cringe. >can either be something that develops naturally from well rounded characterization, or something that feels shoehorned and boring regardless of if it was part of the earliest conceptions of the story.
That is certainly true.
>Is Steven Universe liberal?
I cannot for the life of me figure out how the fuck can anyone actually need to fucking ask that question. I mean how dense can OP be? If its CalArts it's liberalism made into an artform. Then you watch the actual show and yeah it just affirms it.
>>7074>If its CalArts it's liberalism made into an artform.
how the fuck is adventure time or gravity falls "liberalism"?
Gravity Falls still has a lot of inane dumbassery but its decent… its also a massive outlier in terms of shows, the only other of similar type is Gumball, and with both shows what benefits them is that they expand on the animation so that not everything is toonboom.
Also Gravity Falls was years ago, every other toonboom cartoon is full of liberal shit or just plain dumbassery.
Adventure Time is just over-rated shite that people can't get over because it was still new enough that people accepted it.
Reminder that a trans woman made a 2 hour long video tearing Steven Universe apart, see first link in >>4954
>>7077>Gravity Falls still has a lot of inane dumbassery but its decent…
Hmph! I'm willing to defend it as a truly exceptional 8/10 show, genuinely brilliant.>what benefits them is that they expand on the animation so that not everything is toonboom
I think what helped GF the most, in terms of visuals, was its extremely robust design phase. Like I said upthread, the amount of symbolism and thematic cohesion squeezed into the design of every character, item, and background, was phenomenal. It's such a shame all that had to be squeezed through the samey and inexpressive lens of Calarts toddlerscribbles by the actual animators.>Also Gravity Falls was years ago
Trudat, though there have been (excellent) sequel comics after it failed to get more seasons.
>>7081>the amount of symbolism and thematic cohesion squeezed into the design of every character, item, and background, was phenomenal. It's such a shame all that had to be squeezed through the samey and inexpressive lens of Calarts toddlerscribbles by the actual animators.
Yep >there have been (excellent) sequel comics after it failed to get more seasons.
Yep, /co/ saw to that.
>>2531>the white savior meme where native earthlings was saved by a noble alien and would have died otherwise.
It's not a white saviour meme it is a generic colonial saviour meme. the former implies that only whites were colonial… which is wrong.
Also I mean they would of died otherwise… because of a problem the gems created in the first place.
The white savior trope is usually about a white person saving the natives from European society, so this doesn’t exactly disprove
>>7077>Adventure Time is just over-rated shite that people can't get over because it was still new enough that people accepted it.
Have you even watched it after the first season? I like it. It has a distinct style which changes practically every episode in the later seasons. I love the "James Baxter the Horse" because it's just so simple while also being distinct.
>every other toonboom cartoon is full of liberal shit or just plain dumbassery.
all capitalist media is liberal shit you faggot. That isn't a distinctive characteristic of these shows, it's just your conception of "the good old days" of liberal cartoons where the style looked like someone shat on a piece of paper and modeled it. I would take shitty little glitter shows over that
I read that comic at a public library, shit, that was brutal, the collection beforehand was also messed up, and there was this cool comic where vader just kills a bunch of jedi in a duel, good times
god fuck me, diverse, disney kept the gays outta the way so they could sell to some other country, china I think, but given what I hear on this board, I dunno
>>7632>That isn't a distinctive characteristic of these shows, it's just your conception of "the good old days" of liberal cartoons
Overt liberalism and general liberal themes are very fucking different you fucking newfag and that's not even true. Not being explicitly communist is not necessarily liberal ignoramus. But when your entire show is projecting gender-fluid bullshit constantly and with intention of "educating children about le sexuality" then your show is shitlib rubbish. >the style looked like someone shat on a piece of paper and modeled it
Yeah no. Fucking Ren and Stimpy, a literal shitpost of a series was better than this lazy noodly garbage, which despite modern computer technology negating the issues of early animation, can't be bothered to fucking do proper layering or have consistent design. If you think Steven Retardverse or Teen Titans Go, or Thundercats Roar or Cadance is better than fucking Animaniacs or Darkwing Duck or Gargoyles or Real Ghostbusters, then you have no taste or understanding of animation and artstyle whatsoever.
Nobody says you can't have goofy fucking designs or mature plot in your kids cartoons, but the past decade of media is made up of 90% garbage that has lax animation, trash story lines and shitty mass-produced artstyle. This compares poorly to the large amounts of good shows from the past which - even despite many being toy commercial cartoons - told good stories. In 10 years no-one is going to remember Adventure Time except with a "hey that weird show existed" but everyone remembers cartoons of the 90s, 80s and 2000s, they are iconic and people talk about them today on and on.
Best animation is, of course, eastern bloc mature animated films. https://youtu.be/Zg3a5P8T6g0
>>7665>Yeah no. Fucking Ren and Stimpy, a literal shitpost of a series was better than this lazy noodly garbage, which despite modern computer technology negating the issues of early animation, can't be bothered to fucking do proper layering or have consistent design. If you think Steven Retardverse or Teen Titans Go, or Thundercats Roar or Cadance is better than fucking Animaniacs or Darkwing Duck or Gargoyles or Real Ghostbusters, then you have no taste or understanding of animation and artstyle whatsoever.
both are equally as shit. One is grotesque and uninteresting, the other is too simple and too flashy.
>Nobody says you can't have goofy fucking designs or mature plot in your kids cartoons, but the past decade of media is made up of 90% garbage that has lax animation, trash story lines and shitty mass-produced artstyle. This compares poorly to the large amounts of good shows from the past which - even despite many being toy commercial cartoons - told good stories. In 10 years no-one is going to remember Adventure Time except with a "hey that weird show existed" but everyone remembers cartoons of the 90s, 80s and 2000s, they are iconic and people talk about them today on and on.
Most shows of that era were made to sell toys/merchandise or other apparel. The 90s had good shows, don't get me wrong, but they still had simple art styles, examples being: Cat-dog, Rugrats, powerpuff girls, etc.
Also it's funny that most prolific shows with a 'CalArts' style weren't even made by CalArts graduates. Ben Bocquelet, Rebecca Sugar, Chris Savino and Ian Jones Quarterly for example.
Plus the "muh calarts" style shit is still fucking wrong in most cases. The main gripe is the character design, which although a good criticism, isn't a good basis for saying that modern shows are bad. Shows like OK KO, Regular Show and especially Gumball have vastly different art styles and animation styles, with Gumball using various different styles and mediums of animation.
>But when your entire show is projecting gender-fluid bullshit constantly and with intention of "educating children about le sexuality" then your show is shitlib rubbish.
I'd take that shit over art which looks like monkeys flinging shit over the screen such as in Ren and Stimpy you niggerfaggot.
>>7668>One is grotesque and uninteresting
Grotesque? Yes, Uninteresting is a matter of opinion since some people find it funny or horrifying and thus entertaining. It is a kids cartoon after-all. Being harmlessly offensive is far better than harmfully PC. >Most shows of that era were made to sell toys/merchandise or other apparel
1) I mentioned that from the start
2) That's only true of the 80s. Federal legislature in the late 80s concerning advertising in kids content forced 90s and 2000s cartoons to stop using Pester Power as a selling method.
3) Doesn't fucking matter, Mighty Max was BASED on a toyline yet it was fucking awesome. >Cat-dog, Rugrats, powerpuff girls
And then we had better animated and non-simplistic stuff like Gargoyles and Godzilla the Animated series and Extreme Ghostbusters. > it's funny that most prolific shows with a 'CalArts' style weren't even made by CalArts graduates
TO use the phrase of another ex-cal Arts student, popular artists influence other artists. With things like Fairly Odd Parents, the designs were weird but detailed and with a unique style, but those shows died out and in came deviant-art caricatures of low-end cartoons of the 2000s like Teenage Robot and Mighty B. >OK KO
OK KO and Gumball use the fluidity of their shows being random as fuck to fully let loose. However things like Cadance and Steven Uni don't do. They're stuck in their rut of PC-shit or brainless randomness, where loud noise and motion = 'humor'.
Regular Show actually is more of a Rick and Morty type show and also revels in randomness and a cheap young adult-humor genre. This works as a lowbrow tv show for casul viewing (not kids), apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek) and it becomes shit. > art which looks like monkeys flinging shit over the screen such as in Ren and Stimpy
The niggerfaggot is you if you're saying that. Ren and Stimpy, as I said, were literal shitposts of their time. They still outdo Steven Universe despite being grotesque, because they're unique and insane and not plain and stupid.
>>7670>Uninteresting is a matter of opinion since some people find it funny or horrifying and thus entertaining.
In the same way that "some people" find fart jokes funny.
>3) Doesn't fucking matter, Mighty Max was BASED on a toyline yet it was fucking awesome.
outliers exist, most shows were still awful. Kind of like these days, no?
>And then we had better animated and non-simplistic stuff like Gargoyles and Godzilla the Animated series and Extreme Ghostbusters.
And we also had shows like Chowder and Avatar LA. Outliers exist, trend is still maintained.
>OK KO and Gumball use the fluidity of their shows being random as fuck to fully let loose. However things like Cadance and Steven Uni don't do. They're stuck in their rut of PC-shit or brainless randomness, where loud noise and motion = 'humor'.
I don't like Steven Uni either, trust me. But to say that its animation couldn't be beautiful at times is wrong (this was when actual good animators were brought on the shows, don't remember the episode when). The problems with steven universe was that the animation process was disorganized and messy. OK KO wasn't random, especially in the last season. It still had good animation still.
>Regular Show actually is more of a Rick and Morty type show and also revels in randomness and a cheap young adult-humor genre. This works as a lowbrow tv show for casul viewing (not kids), apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek) and it becomes shit.
Regular show didn't work as a show because of the demographic in mind, true. But other than i don't find any problems with it.
>apply it anywhere else (like in Star Trek)
in the same way that you can't "apply" the humor of powerpuff girls to some random show made for marketing. This is a non-argument.
>The niggerfaggot is you if you're saying that. Ren and Stimpy, as I said, were literal shitposts of their time. They still outdo Steven Universe despite being grotesque, because they're unique and insane and not plain and stupid.
Shitposts which were viewed by kids. It was a grotesque shitshow which used pretty apparent sex & bodily humor while also being "random". It is practically the same thing as the shows you hate. At least steven universe tried to make a compelling story despite falling flat on its head, ren & stimpy was just cheap adult humor in the same vain as modern family guy.
Also, I just want to say this. Although I understand your point that most shows these days are shit or have a similar style, for the most part i prefer it over styles such as that of Ren & stimpy and Rocko's modern life. Even then I believe there should be variety. But this isn't a problem with these cartoonists or even these shows, it's a facet of the animation industry. It was economical before to make shows of the same ilk as your favorite nostalgia-driven liberalism, now it isn't.
>>7673>find fart jokes funny.
And? It's a kid show, SNL which is supposed to be for adults hasn't been any better for years. Again, like I said, it's a shitpost of a cartoon.>outliers exist, most shows were still awful
Wrong. Most shows were awesome. Sometimes stupid, sometimes smart, but awesome nontheless.> we also had shows like Chowder and Avatar LA
Both are late 2000s cartoons, not 2010s. Shows like Clone Wars and Transformers Prime existed after and THEY are outliers. >OK KO wasn't random, especially in the last season
I meant it style of story. It embraced the absurdism of the designs and essentially pulled a new looney toons in that regard. They used the animation to their advantage. >other than i don't find any problems with it
Neither do I.>the humor of powerpuff girls to some random show made for marketing
That is an utter nonsequitur. My point is that you can't combine such a cartoon style and then aim it at a demographic it shouldn't be aimed for. >It is practically the same thing as the shows you hate
Nope, pic related. The background, details and animation were detailed and complex, not flat same-face with a "stretch mouth circle into wider circle" like today. The devil is in the details. >At least steven universe tried to make a compelling story
Nope, it didn't try at all. It went through the motions of it (vaguely) but there was no real over-arching story, and instead focus episodically on one or another numbnut asshole to defeat who has wrong-think. This has already been addressed in multiple posts (and youtube reviews) prior so I won't go on this. >same vain as modern family guy
Again no. Modern Family Guy is superficially no different to its original version, but the details show otherwise.
Based but I already posted that moron
>was economical before to make shows of the same ilk as your favorite nostalgia-driven liberalism, now it isn't.
LOL wut, the budgets for these toon-boom messes is higher than any of the old toons and the nostalgia for the old toons is a big money factor. Also stop with this "it wuz liberal then too" because that's not the same. There is no nostalgia involved. Unless you're referring to something like G.I. Joe which is just unfocused military hero-porn.
Not that Anon, but didn't the Ren and Stimpy guy whip the animators because he was autistic about never recycling faces and got canned for it?
apparently gender identity was cooked up by a pedo, it doesn't exist
I don't recall that being the reason he was canned. I certainly don't remember it coming up. That was probably something 4/co/ cooked up.
>>7681>LOL wut, the budgets for these toon-boom messes is higher than any of the old toons and the nostalgia for the old toons is a big money
Outsourcing to South Korea and usage of software like Flash has been incredibly economical.
>>7704>didn't the Ren and Stimpy guy whip the animators because he was autistic about never recycling faces and got canned for it?
Also, as an off-topic question, but wasn't John K also sacked for pedophilia?
>>7717>has been incredibly economical.
Yep, which means they pocket the money. It's a money-laundering scheme essentially. >>7725
No, it was long after he was fired. 2 women acused him of essentially coming on to them when there were 15-14. He apologized and blamed his mental issues.
>>7728>He apologized and blamed his mental issues.
Based and blaming-mental-health-for-hitting-on-kids-pilled
It was more that he kept missing deadlines (mostly because of his "never draw the same face twice" policy") and because he kept pushing the envelope too far for the censors to accommodate.
and the following arguments
>>7824>They're also the same people who think conservatives/nazis should be jailed for having racist opinions.
They should be jailed if they commit genocide which is what the Diamonds did.
The point is that the same liberals who defend Diamonds being genocidal are people who want to jail people for opinions.
the dissonance is stronk
I don't think there's dissonance, with the correct level of insanity.
Feelz>reelz is the lens they view everything through
Damn. Tough to pick who is more pathetic, the faggots spending their time doing this or the faggots getting assmad and crying racism because someone recolored a cartoon.
Who spent more effort?
The metric for successful vs. unsuccessful trolling is shitposts in vs. saltposts out ratio.
Considering that edit and draw fags on /trash/ can whip up cheap shite like that in a matter of minutes, compared to the sheer rivers of crying screaming and diatribes about how its racist… 4chan definitely got the win, especially since Steven Universe was banned to the /sug/ generals on /trash/ rather than /aco/ or /co/
So funny story, the sjw fanbase of this show actually decided she was """coded""" as hipsanic/latina, not just because of their typical muh diversity shit, but due to this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd8KG5FtJ-0
so these faggots did the kind of stereotyping they claim to hate.
>>8717>Literally all disgusting faggot futa art
futashit or not, it's drawn fairly well, especially compared to the actual show.
>>11073>Not liking Futa
What are you gay?
is gay children's cartoon liberal???
>>5276>liking Ben 10 and shitting on Steven Universe
This is some real zoomer shit
Ben Ten is early zoomer.
It aired in 2005, and the kids who watched that show were 6-10 years old, a.k.a 90s kids.
Gen z started in the mid to late 90s dude. Like I said, early zoomer.
Am 22 year old zoomer
Remember watching Avatar and Ben 10 when they first aired
I remember I thought the first episode of Ben 10 was the absolute shit
>>13450>Millennials, also known as Generation Y (or simply Gen Y), are the demographic cohort following Generation X and preceding Generation Z. Researchers and popular media use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years, with 1981 to 1996 a widely accepted defining range for the generation>>13456
yeah it was great
It's liberal because it's written, cared about, and watched only by pedophiles, and any adult who talks about it belongs in a prison camp.
Pretty good video, though there's also some dumb shit here and there
can someone give me a Marxist/Maoist analysis of SU porn? asking for a friend k thanks
i look up lapis lazuli porn from time to time
tell us about the dumb shit i wanna know
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