🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
<How To Build A Party Edition
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>>2584380Remember to filter mass tor baiters, feds, and trollsNot reporting is bourgeoisViolators will be launched from trebuchet >>2586111ask Venezuela and Syria
FACT: DSA, CPUSA and ACP are all the same.
>>2586116Then consult the guide in the OP video on building a party
>>2586119What the left needs is at least 11 different communist parties like in Nepal.
>>2586117>A child is not American if I dont like the parentsYou just know that's where they're going with this
We need to get this fucking cheeto out of the White House.
>>2586119Divide and conquer, where have I seen this tactic before..
>>2586134I fear a vance presidency
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/5635428-ag-bondi-trump-antifa-doj/
>Bondi outlines prosecution pathways after Trump call to go after antifa, left-leaning groupsCant wait to be charged for not clapping hard enough at a My Little Dark Age fashwave edit
>>2586125we already have way more than 11
something something market competition will lead to monopoly eventually
>>2586135>you are hecking trying to divide meno i am telling people that if none of the existing parties satisfy them, and they refuse to join one of them, then the next logical step is to start their own. The division on ideological lines has already happened. I am telling them what to do instead of nothing. Parties can march with each other and collaborate where they agree anyway. Even parties are broken into local orgs and caucuses. The question of "dividing and conquering" presupposes no collaboration or shared aims between the divided groups.
>>2586147every comrade should have their own personal party, great idea
Anyone feel like terrorism/assassinations are being romanticized in the US?
>>2586152Only if the perp is hot
honkoid status?
>>2586150not what i said troll
>>2586152not unique or unprecedented to the US, but yes
>>2586135>reposting a guide that the comintern wrote is dividing and conquering, especially when the comintern explicitly stated that if your parties are all revisionist or reactionary or reformist it is your duty to start a true revolutionary party. this is bad faith
>>2586152It's been this way from the beginning, even before wild west novels and movies helped keep this romance alive until other forms of violence were an easier sell. Glad you noticed the pattern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuoynYcUMvw >>2586134Finally someone talking sense on this website
>>2586160
How long until they decide they can take away citizenship status from natural born citizens, and I don't mean people with immigrant parents.
>>2586162You might as well have lmao. Self important idiots who believe they're the true "anti-revisionists" splintering off constantly is very useful for us. Self selecting for your own irrelevancy and inability to think further than "electoralism bad" is more than welcome! Seethe forever while normal communists with basic interpersonal skills and common sense organize and stay the course.
Keep disguising the fact that everyone disagrees with you and doesn't want to work with your retarded self importance as "anti-communist" and not just you specifically being a retard who can't form a coherent thought
REMINDER: If you are not a revolutionary and not an internationalist, you are not a Communist. Both of these things are as necessary to being a Communist as hydrogen and oxygen are to water. If you are not both these things you are at best a liberal and at worst (and far more likely) a strasserite.
>>2586188And what organizing have you done, exactly?
Everyone who complains the CPUSA or the DSA aren't positive forces in the world are projecting their own inability to form coherent sentences, arguments attached to reality, nor any ability to convince anyone in any serious left wing party that actually agrees with their schizo aggro rants.
They come here to cope and seethe because no one wants to humor their manic rants about imperialism or whatever and we have to deal with it every day
>>2586191What organizing has… The CPUSA and DSA done? Is that a serious question?
>>2586192Anyone who thinks the Democrats are a force for good in the world is a genocidal maniac who doesn't care about the majority of the world just as long as they can get even one more crumb off the table. The pathetic thing is that the Democrats cheat them of such but their caucuses like the DSA and "C"PUSA are convinced that if they're good little boys Lucy will finally let them kick the football THIS time.
>>2586193No, I was asking the anti-communist what organizing it has done. However, the question also applies to the DSSA and "C"PUSA, who have done nothing in their entire existence except kill the left, which is why they still exist.
>>2586184If Birthright citizenship is no longer applied then it's not just your parents who are under scrutiny. If your parents' parents weren't citizens then they retroactively weren't citizens either. Even one illegitimate ancestor means you are not a citizen. And how many Americans can prove all their grandparents were natural born citizens, never mind all their great-grandparents?
>>2586195are you like mentally handicapped
>>2586188to be perfectly clear since other people are responding to you
1. you should join an existing org
2. if that is unacceptable you should start a new org
3. under no conditions should you do nothing or only sit on the sideline as a pure critic
you ignored point 1 and pretended point 2 was a nonconditional statement intended to "divide and conquer"
>>2586201>zero args, just trollingreported for rule 11
>>2586202>You should start a new org if you don't like the current oneIf you're so self aggrandizing to think that you should do that, then actually yes lmao. Kick your own self out of the party so other people can get to work
>>2586202This creature is a dedicated anti-communist. It will never organize anything or accomplish anything except attacking the left.
It thinks it's smart for doing nothing. We will see how smart it is when our chekists lock it in a basement cell in our Lubyanka.
>>2586206Work doing what? Electing Democrats?
>>2586206actually listen to what the comintern wrote about starting parties or fuck off. you're not actually engaging with the existing theory here, you're just mischaracterizing a conditional statement as a nonconditional statement, making up shit nobody said, and pretending splits have never happened before. Was Lenin "self aggrandizing" when the RSDLP split?
Nobody is saying "split existing revolutionary parties for no reason." You're just pretending that's what is being said because it's necessary ingredient in the strawman you're repeatedly constructing no matter how many times I elaborate.
1. join an existing org
2.
if that org becomes reactionary, revisionist, reformist, retarded, or counter-revolutionary,
and you cannot meaningfully change it from the inside
then you have to start a new one
3. under no conditions should you do nothing or only sit on the sideline as a pure critic
4. if you think I am saying "split for no reason" then you are either stupid or lying or trolling or addicted to arguing.
https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/3rd-congress/riddell-translations/Communist-Party-organization.htm >>2586152>violence romanticized in the westno way!
>>2586212You're trying to make arguments with words when the only argument you should be making comes from the barrel of a gun. These animals know exactly what they are doing. No one is born an anti-communist wrecker. They become such only intentionally. They are not worth anything except target practice.
>>2586209Among many things, actually yes lol. If you have your head so far up your ass that you think "electoralism bad revolution now" there's a reason you're irrelevant. The two main leftwing orgs in this country the DSA and the CPUSA do so much more than just electoral politics, including organizing strikes, helping negotiate contracts, combatting ice, educating the proles, establishing mutual aid networks, teaching fucking English to immigrants, the list goes on and on.
But you're such a fucking narcissist that you believe you're above all of that. You couldn't tell me the actual organizational structure of the democratic "party" and how it's not even really a party. You think you're special, above it all, and have it all figured out and it's actually the literal COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES that is the one who's wrong. No no no, it's actually YOU who's the communism understander.
>>2586215Beyond the fact that you are supporting imperialism,
The best case of this sort of "organizing" is that MAYBE in fifty years you will have enough voters to get free healthcare on a dead world. This is insufficient and you know it, but you don't want a revolution either now or in the future because you know that you would be one of the first up against the wall if it happened.
>>2586212So you believe that the ACP needed to split from CPUSA because they were correct in their personal perception that the CPUSA is revisionist?
>>2586218the ACP is reactionary and your question is completely in bad faith. Read
>>2586212 five times as slowly as possible
>>2586218The ACP is to the left of the "C"PUSA. Everyone splitting from the "C"PUSA or otherwise attacking it, discrediting it or destroying it by any means and with any weapon is absolutely correct to do so. The "C"PUSA exists to destroy the left and any attacks on it are self defense.
>>2586218I am the anon and this is my answer:
>>2586222This:
>>2586224 is not my answer
>>2586217>Supporting imperialismImperialism is essentially dead
>World dead in 50 yearsFor all your talk of anti-imperialism, you seem to completely ignore the progress AES countries have made in environmental sustainability and global warming. Ironic implicit euro-centrism
>Revolution (but it's just a war)You want a war for your own personal catharsis. The masses would suffer immense loss for your own self aggrandizing unnecessary fantasy
>>2586228You are either an anti-communist, a literal retard or both.
Trump is a Trotskyite and gets all of his policy ideas from The Heritage Foundation which was founded on the belief system pioneered by people like Irving Kristol (
https://www.dailysignal.com/2009/09/21/heritage-mourns-loss-of-irving-kristol/) who was a well known Trotskyite.
It is the Marxists who go by the name of Neoliberal/Liberal/Woke/etc. who are at "war" with the Trotskyites who go by the name of trumpism/neoconservative/conservative/libertarian/far right/etc. When the marxists attempted to assassinate Donald Trump in 2024 Donald Trump brought the third and newest group to the mexican standoff in JD Vance.
JD Vance is the puppet of Peter Thiel one of the cofounders of Paypal alongside Elon Musk. Peter Thiel also runs Palantir which had its IPO in 2020 and was a key player in the Covid Hoax and is also now heavily involved with government military contracts. Peter Thiel and Elon Musk belong to a faction known as the "Transhumanists" these are the people who believe they can create "god" on earth through an advanced enough Artificial Intelligence and they believe that they can attain "eternal life" by transferring their consciousness to a construct and they are VERY serious about these beliefs. Many of them have net worth's in the hundreds of billions and are building private cities all around the United States such as a Elon Musks "Starbase, Texas" or Steve Jobs family "California Forever", Billgates is building a private city named "Belmont, Arizona", Peter Thiel is building "floating cities", Larry Ellison bought an entire island in Hawaii and is turning it into a private city, you get the point.
You might ask: What is the difference between a Trotskyite and a Marxist? Basically it boils down to HOW the so called word changing "revolution" occurs; Trotskyites believe that "revolution" should happen on a global scale and the world to be in a constant state of "revolution" while Lenin believes that each nation should form their own "socialist states" (such as the USSR, or Mao's China) on their own terms and "revolution" should be a one and done thing.
They both share one crucial thing in common though in that all the plebians and slave caste which they label the "workers" should be ruled over by a parasitic managerial class who live in opulent luxury. This is also true for the Transhumanists as well and they are building their private cities right now to accomplish this as I mentioned above.
All of them share themes of brutalist techno dystopia where the Party is always right, where language is molded on the fly to fit the crisis (The definition of Vaccine is a very good example of this recently), where dissidents are punished harshly, and often jingoistic in nature.
>>2586212Yeah I read it. What you're arguing is so plainly obvious that I find it difficult to imagine why you even bring it up.
>If party bad make better oneYeah no fucking shit. But the subtext I assume when you say that is that you believe the CPUSA and DSA to be anti-revolutionary/revisionist. Which is ultimately retarded because they're nascent anyways, in the belly of the capitalist beast.
>>2586224The ACP is reactionary (and a cult), the CPUSA is revisionist, the DSA is tailist, the PSL is reformist, the Revcoms are a cult around Bob Avakian. There is no Communist party in the USA.
If there were, then splitting that party would be bad, but there isn't a true revolutionary communist party.
>every man a party?yes. that is what is being said. unironically. literally. for realsies. follow haggie thatcher thought. there is no such thing as society, only individuals.
>>2586234
>Communism isn't about the masses
Wow FINALLY mask off lol lmfao even
>>2586236There are communist parties in America. I am in one.
>>2586237prediction: anon will follow up with an elaboration that "the masses" is an "interclass construct" and therefore you are "including the bourgeoisie" and no amount of quoting Lenin or Mao using the term "the masses" will put this accusation to rest.
>>2586238
Mistakes does not fascism make. If you're a communist and you want to do literally anything real, you'll join either the DSA or the CPUSA. Those are your choices. Plain and simple. If you think they should do something different, fucking join them and suggest it. That's how democracy works.
If you think you're going to make something totally new and have it succeed, you're a self important narcissist.
yakub what have you done
as a florida fag you are a retard if you want to live in the south west of the state like cape coral and fort myers. It floods so insanely easy. I think we should let the sea take that area and stop rebuilding it. If floods so easily and can't handle a hurricane
Us south florida fags can handle anything we are like cockroaches. We don't flood and can outside in hurricanes cause we are retards who can't be stopped. I'm summary if you want to live in South part of Florida do not go to South West
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/20/fastest-growing-city-america-florida-cape-coral-215724/>>2586235>Yeah I read it. What you're arguing is so plainly obvious that I find it difficult to imagine why you even bring it up. because people were complaining about all the existing parties and it was a direct response to those people you fucking time wasting idiot. instead of accusing me of "splitting" for giving those people a solution, how about you go and talk to them instead. god damn dude.
so far this "Conversation"
>I tell people complaining about existing parties that they should start a new party instead of complaining endlessly<get accused of ulterior motives to "divide and conquer" the already ridiculously fractured "US Left">elaborate with perfect clarity that no, that is not my goal and restate my original thesis<get strawmanned relentlessly>elaborate 5 or 6more times<"ok you're correct but everything you said is so obvious you must have a secret motive for bringing it up">elaborate that no I was responding to people complaining about existing parties and showing how existing theory already gives them a taskwhat will your next stupendous cope be in this ridiculous inquisition you relentlessly annoying asshole?
>>2586246
>China destroying imperialism by developing their economies
YES! HOLY FUCK WHY DOES IT TAKE THIS LONG TO UNDERSTAND.
Developing the economy with free trade is THE engine of progress towards socialism. Anti-imperialism is done IN THE PERIPHERY. Reform in done in the core until our MIC is intimidated and surrounded. Then the final transition is a cakewalk.
Jesus fucking Christ how hard is that to understand
>>2586252>we outsourced every job, even the revolutiondamn, the finesse
>>2586240please don't say which one or you'll start a struggle session. thank you. that is all.
>>2586252>reformRevolution will happen long before any reforms are offered
President Donald Trump’s tiredness, recent MRI and hand bruise suggest he may be taking medication to treat Alzheimer’s disease.
The Alzheimer’s drug Leqembi is administered through an infusion (for example, through the hand) can cause swelling, bleeding, or fluid leakage in the brain, requiring regular MRIs- Can cause tiredness.
Last week, a New York Times article reported that Trump is showing “signs of fatigue” in his second term, pointing to a less robust public schedule than his first term.
The article pointed to an occasion at noon on Nov. 6, when Trump held an event on drug prices in the Oval Office.
At one point, Trump’s eyelids drooped until his eyes were almost closed, and he appeared to doze on and off for several seconds. At another point, he opened his eyes and looked toward a line of journalists watching him. He stood up only after a guest who was standing near him fainted and collapsed.”
Trump is showing signs he’s taking the Alzheimer’s disease drug Leqembi wich explains why hes hand is blue and uses band-aid.
>https://www.themirror.com/news/politics/donald-trump-perfect-health-doctor-1545837https://www.al.com/politics/2025/12/trump-showing-signs-hes-battling-major-medical-crisis-democrat-claims.html>>2586253Literally yes. The CPC is all it actually takes. We follow THEM. The CPC specifically is the vanguard of the entire world. The USA doesn't need to install its own one party system (even though it would be nice) in order for global revolution to take place.
Eventually, America will actually have a structure like China/Vietnam, but probably only after China leads the world for a few decades. While I would LOVE to have a revolution, you can't force it, and it's nowhere close to happening lol. We just wait and do normal economy things for now because even that is progressive and lends a hand to progress.
>>2586255Cope and seethe!
>>2586234>Americans suffering is a net positivethis would only be true if Americans (and, in particular, the American working class) suffering resulted it resulted in a net gain for everyone else, but that is not necessarily the case, is it, as this anon already said:
>>2586239 >if for example the entire world were lit on fire, right this moment, americans would suffer, but so would everyone else, therefore it wouldn't be a "net positive."Your "zero sum game" logic is easily disproven. And we see, even without the contrived example of the world being lit on fire, that in real life, American imperialism
primarily results in the suffering of non-Americans, but also is
secondarily fueled by the privatization, deregulation, austerity, union busting, defunding of education, etc. in the domestic American economy. The suffering of American workers is the necessary input to imperialism, and the suffering of everyone else is the necessary result. It is in the interest therefore, of American workers, to fight American imperialism, because they do not benefit from it, even if the American bourgeoisie do.
>>2586259This country has two futures, open dictatorship with digital IDs and currency or revolution. American porky, used to global unipolar hegemony, does not believe in the necessity of reform. These are the limitations of crumbling liberalism
>>2586262>digital IDs and currency why wouldn't communism have digital labor vouchers and a database of who lives in the country? You need that for central planning. You sound like a lolbertarian.
>>2586111no. bitch be mad because the libs sabotaged his first tenure, and plotted against him (keir stamer literally paid influencing campaigns against trump, for example). bitch be mad indeed.
>>2586263..im not saying it wouldn't?
>>2586260Basically a non-insignificant portion of ultra leftists spend more time organizing to try to sabotage and demoralize the American Left than actually organizing against capitalism. It’s a wholly toxic relationship, cultish in a way.
>>2586270something something precious volk something something treats something something no american working class something something geopolitics something something zero sum game something something every time a third world child dies in a drone strike an american gets 10,000 dollars, but every time an american dies, a third world child is liberated from wage slavery
>>2586262>Muh oversimplified false dichotomyThe fascists here couldn't even go to war with Iran, they couldn't win a trade war with China, and they're about to find an excuse not to go to war with Venezuela. Our secretary of defense Kegsbreath is being openly accused of war crimes by even the elite because of how incompetent they are.
It is
materially impossible to make the USA even more reactionary than it already is because the bourgeoisie would have to liquidate the working class they themselves depend on domestically, as well as the developing countries and global trade we depend on to survive.
>>2586276
wait till you find out how australias and the UKs pension schemes work your head will explode
>>2586274
This proves that there is an unbroken line relating chinese fo Apachala, China must retake Apalacha, its not like there aren't enough States for Amerikkkans in Amerikkka anyway, chinapalachians have nowhere else to go, know no other home. You must respect Chinese-Apalachilian self-determination.
>>2586271>”we should organize to overthrow capitalism”<“All of you are guilty of capitalism and the only thing you should be organizing is your own funeral!”Literally these types try to rally more support for capitalists in the west than against them.
>>2586278>the bourgeoisie would have to liquidate the working class they themselves depend on domesticallyI understand that. Ultimately the bourgeoise want more workers not less. My argument was moreso how civil liberties will continue to be taken away instead of concessions being given. Life will get harder and the state will be more intrusive into daily life. But this exactly why I think revolution is most inevitable here, as opposed to China or Russia, who have experience with dealing and see the necessity of giving the working class reforms. I really see american porky driving this country into the dirt for no consideration other than profit, which is ultimately desirable
>>2586283
let those who doubt watch as the proletariat, ever hopeful, strides to rid itself of it's chains, and breaks the unholy rule of the bourgeoisie
>>2586286
completely outing yourself as an unserious retard
>>2586287>Implying China needs a revolution Are you like… Do you know even the first thing about china?
>>2586283
Pure nonsense statements without evidence. You think shutting down our overseas bases are bad because it could be pitched with a peace dividend to people.
>>2586286
self proclaimed communists dont hate whoever the CIA tells you to hate challenge (impossible)
>>2586297
>more responsible for the GWOT than anyone except Bush and Cheney
hasbara detected
>You provide material support to a party that wants to open more bases and expand the Military industrial complex. Your endorsed candidate was more responsible for the GWOT than anyone except Bush and Cheney and dramatically expanded the extrajudicial murder program, along with overthrowing peaceful and stable countries like Libya and Syria, leading to millions dead and tens of millions displaced.
We don’t endorse candidates, we point out that Republicans are materially worse.
>You are an imperialist, you provide material support to imperialism. It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you DO, and what you DO is provide all-around, enthusiastic support to imperialism.
By that logic you’re the greater imperialist because you consistently try to organize for the worst of the two imperialist parties to win.
>>2586286What would you expect to see from Chinese internationalism? I don't see how China isn't, simply because they aren't boldly 'exporting the revolution' like the USSR did.
>>2586296>>2586290You're even dumber. Fuck off.
>>2586304
Sure. Communists are materialists. Communists support reactionary butchers all the time.
>>2586313
felix where's your spear of the volk?
>>2586305
he's about to start a war in venezuela for christ's sake, how is this a "remission" in foreign wars? he negotiated the fucking abraham accords and literally almost started a war with iran 6 months ago, what world do you live in? clearly not the one we all live in now
>>2586279>>2586276see
>>2586260>>2586318
>It’s just performative saber rattling
<america isn't capable of imperialism anymore
oh to be this naive
>>2586324
>i'm just going to make up things you didn't say
two can play at that game
>>2586317
joe biden also withdrew out of afghanistan, is he too a peace candidate who subdued american imperialism?
>>2586318
>actually that thing that happened didn't happen, and if it did it wasn't that bad
delusional
>>2586328
He’s currently trying to reassert hegemony on South American states that slipped the noose.
>>2586313
You don’t organize workers for armed struggle, let alone labor disputes, you don’t organize anyone, you demand others do the fighting for you and creep away at the first hint of conflict.
>>2586122PSL too, doesn't matter that they're ex-trotskyites when all the other marxist-leninist parties are possessed by a trotskyite paralysis and tailism
>>2586311do i really need an article to learn what tariffs and shipping costs are
>>2586234>>2586260only on leftypol would the sentencee "american workers should fight imperialism" be met with endless hostility and the sentence "americans suffering is a net positive" be seen as a serious thesis.
>>2586240There is no genuine communist PARTY in the United States. There are smaller, local communist organizations and study groups that are active but none of them are a party. The All-Empire Worker's League is in my opinion the org with the most potential.
>>2586328
Trump is not an ideas guy. He's controlled by the people around him. Have you seen how sleep he is recently? It's only going to get worse. Stephen Miller types are running the empire just as much as trump is
>>2586337>"american workers should fight imperialism" they won't
> "americans suffering is a net positive"it is. the VAST majority of americans are WILLING and GLEEFUL collaborators. the last thing i want is for americans to start pretending to be "anti imperialist" at the last minute to save themselves from their necessary destruction. you and your precious volk will perish painfully, and the world WILL rejoice.
>>2586341You're in the Imperalist core too, Felix. If Americans can't fight imperialism you can't either.
>>2586341this. the last thing we need is for a "proletarian revolution" to succeed in america. it would be anything but that and set the whole world back to 1492. NEVER believe american "anti imperialists"
>>2586344shut the fuck up
>>2586336
>”My supermodel girlfriend is in Canada, you wouldn’t know her.”
>>2586329
i didn't know joe biden was the number 1 man for the afghanistan and iraq wars, insane, thanks for the knowledge drop felix
>>2586243<prediction: anon will follow up with an elaboration that "the masses" is an "interclass construct" and therefore you are "including the bourgeoisie" and no amount of quoting Lenin or Mao using the term "the masses" will put this accusation to rest.>>2586343>Communism is the real movement to emancipate THE PROLETARIAT AND THE PROLETARIAT ONLY from the anarchy of production, terms like “the worker” are as meaningless as “the masses” because it is inherently interclass. He did the meme. lmfao
Tell me, what did Lenin mean by this?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/sep/20.htm
<In some places the Party is being purged mainly with the aid of the experience and suggestions of non-Party workerswas this "meaningless drivel" from Lenin? Was he spouting "interclass" struggle? God you people just say things and don't actually fucking read. I'm losing my fucking mind.
>>2586341>it is. the VAST majority of americans are WILLING and GLEEFUL collaborators. the last thing i want is for americans to start pretending to be "anti imperialist" at the last minute to save themselves from their necessary destruction. you and your precious volk will perish painfully, and the world WILL rejoice.context: he is responding like this to someone saying "american workers will fight imperialism"
further context: he will get banned, and then complain that he was banned for being "The only american anti imperialist on this board"
>>2586352
evan there's 5 atf agents coming to your doorstep to confiscate your shitty ar-15, it's done, it's over
>>2586285Honestly the right has never stood for something Hitler had half jewish generals because they were good at their jobs
I have a confession to make. I did a social experiment. I once came on here and pretended to be the "real" iron felix while the other "real" iron felix was also posting, and the other "real" iron felix never pushed back or tried to disown my post. Making me think that the "real" iron felix is multiple paid posters in an office somewhere and they don't interfere with each other's "work" because any time there's another "felix" posting they assume it's a coworker and don't push back or try to disown it.
Conclusion: There is no real iron felix. It's all fedposting.
>>2586305
Lmao you're retarded he's literally about to bomb Venezuela has less limitations on the idf then biden,
Kept bombing Syria and Iraq, sold weapons to Saudis when they were bombing Yemen and had a war against Yemen where the military bombed random tribal gatherings he made drone strikes 4 times worse and so much more
He is better like heroine is better then fentanyl
>>2586359
>WORKERS DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING
<here is lenin referring to non party workers
>ummm actually my take is 10x more nuanced suddenly
>>2586359
when lenin talked about non party workers he wasn't referring to peasants, he was simply referring to the non-party proletariat. This was a refutation of your erroneous claim that "workers" doesn't mean anything.
>>2586362You may not like it, but this is what peak Aryan genetics look like.
>>2586369umm you just want [insert shit you never said] i am the only serious person
>>2586363it's all trolling on here
>>2586341 >you and your precious volk will perish painfully, and the world WILL rejoice.>felix excludes him self from being american even through he is an american living in an american city who doesn't do enough to stop the american empire by his own standardsI think in his mind the JDPON warriors will make him the red king based off his accomplishments of shitposting and bullying a grocery store worker to suicide
i doubt he will even accomplish that >>2586373he's an honorary non-ameryan
>>2586366
>I was only PRETENDING to be retarded
This has been a certified Beryllium Francine classic
It has come to my attention that a deeply regrettable incident occurred recently, involving a disturbed individual who has been associating with our organization under probationary status. This individual, who styles himself "Iron Felix," created a bizarre public spectacle at the Port Authority Bus Terminal and subsequently engaged in disruptive and nonsensical ranting on your forum.
On behalf of the Center for Political Innovation, I offer my sincere apologies for this disruption.
Allow me to provide full context, in the spirit of comradely transparency:
Approximately two weeks ago, this individual arrived at our national headquarters (a secure, functional facility in Brooklyn) in a state of extreme ideological and personal disarray. He was a living testament to the psychic damage wrought by the online "left"—a soup of incoherent doctrines, self-destructive habits, and Vaginic despair.
Consistent with our revolutionary duty to rehabilitate lost potential, we offered him sanctuary and structured discipline. He was accepted into a provisional program of ideological recalibration. This involved light, constructive duties to instill routine, alongside intensive mentorship to rebuild a shattered consciousness along Innovationist lines.
He was accommodated in a dedicated rehabilitation chamber within our facility, not a "cupboard" as some allege. This space is designed for focused reflection and study.
Regrettably, the subject suffered a severe psychic relapse. The ingrained patterns of chaos and hysteria proved temporarily stronger than our corrective framework. He circumvented our security protocols and fled to the PABT, where he proceeded to publicly decompose.
Upon being alerted, I and a senior comrade (my wife and fellow revolutionary, whose steadfastness is a credit to the movement) immediately intervened. We successfully extracted him from the terminal to prevent further embarrassment to himself and to the cause. His condition required immediate, private stabilization.
"Iron Felix" is no longer associated with the Center for Political Innovation. He has been remanded to a more intensive, private program of spiritual and psychological renewal. We wish him a full recovery, far from the triggers of the digital abyss.
Caleb T. Maupin
Chairman, Center for Political Innovation
>>2586377
>I am like Paul Atreides
this isn't canonical felixposting. he would never make a treatlerite pop culture reference. try again.
>>2586352
>act like a piece of shit constantly
<pretend there’s some awful moral line someone else crossed when they make fun of you
Yknow it occurs to me Real Iron Felix might be Trump’s shitposting alter ego.
>>2586381
You threaten to murder everyone who disagrees with you and I joked we could hire a PI to point out all the factories you aren’t bombing. Why do you think you can tell someone you want to murder them then they’re obligated to protect you?
>>2586382
>You little babies probably don't realize that Paul Atreides is from a book from the 1970s which came out long before the movies.
i thought you were against american pop culture regardless of the era, excuse me
>>2586385
>The pig is on one side, I am on the other.
Again, you threaten to murder people on the other side all the time. You don’t get an unlimited forgiveness for backstabbing Felix. You whine and whine about murdering SocDems or Anarchists or communists who aren’t your particular flavor of communist and then you turn around and cry “I can’t believe you’d do this to me!” If someone jokes about you.
You run your mouth, it doesn’t matter what “side” you claim to be on when you’re handing out death threats like candy. To put it frankly: you violate an implicit social contract with your attitude all the time and then declare that everyone else should follow it to your benefit.
Been reading some of Engels' letters on America to keep optimistic and inspired. The man sure had a much rosier view of the American working class than most socialists today, even if he (correctly) thought Americans were kind of stupid and theoretically backward.
>>2586386here is the american proletariat I was telling you about
>>2586386There has to be some kind of agency that's behind this shit. They get a percentage of the GoFundMe cash in exchange for social media promotion. The grift industry.
>>2586393
>”we”
You’re not part of any org. You’ve not opposed imperialism in any meaningful sense. You’ve written nothing worth reading and inspired no one to action. You’re the guy at the outskirts of the village screaming obscenities at everyone else and contributing nothing to the collective while still demanding that they respect some unwritten code of honor in your case.
There are anons on here, many of which disagree with me, who actually do work. You’re basically just a pseudo-nationalist, you treat Red October like it was “your” achievement and the struggles and sacrifices of other socialists like it’s “your” movement that you’re a part of. You want credit for others bravery and others achievements but don’t ever put yourself on the firing line. Functionally I have zero respect for you, I don’t see you as a part of anything, I don’t see you as included in the collective “we”; you’re at your core an anti-social individual.
>>2586393
Snitching on metallurgic simpson to anyone is fine by me personally lmao. You fucking suck
>>2586410Why are so many nu-rightoids criminals?
>>2586415Anti-social traits tend to go together
建国同志加油!
>>2586384>Special favor.extra spanking.
>>2586415>criminalsmeaningless designation
>>2586430This guy would hate pol types and be disgusted by them
>>2586431I wouldn't be so sure about that. William Luther Pierce's comic books he produced for the National Alliance were quite /pol/-worthy
>>2586430>He wanted his movement of whites to be about intellect and success. He despised prisoner racist people or Aryan brotherhood types. He called them complete trash. Watch what he said about them here.Considering the content of the Turner Diaries and his other fiction that's pretty rich coming from him. This was the guy that mentored James Mason after all, and he had no problem with the idea of doing crimes and terror attacks for their own sake to bring down the fall of "ZOG", which is endorsed in his books. Hell in The Turner Diaries the first thing the main characters do is rob a Jewish owned liquor store and shoot up the owners
>>2586433>I wouldn't be so sure about that. William Luther Pierce's comic books he produced for the National Alliance were quite /pol/-worthyYou make a good point. Well in the video his description of the people he disliked is literally a perfect description of poltards
zohran status?
>>2586415Can the antifa terrorists on this site complain about criminals? Seriously if you ever went to a protest or even posted a lefty opinion on social media mentally prepare yourself for prison and being called a criminal because you could be arrested.
>>2586434>>2586433>>2586430I think the intellectual wing of any supremacist movement understands the usefulness of the jughooters. They don't like them, of course, but generally don't give a fuck if there exists a strata of uneducated poor white people, considering they're obsessed with hierarchies anyways
>>2586435Sucking Trump's dick literally before he's even had time to be sworn in, leading virtually the entire American "left" to do mental cartwheels trying to somehow paint it as a "le epic win".
>>2586441Jealous seething
>>2586447
You have schizophrenia
>>2586446You are not a serious person with serious politics. When Mamdani inevitably proves himself to be a cynical careerist who abandons every one of his (already incredibly milquetoast) campaign promises, you will no doubt either continue to talk about how based he is or otherwise pretend that it was a completely unexpected "betrayal" that no one could have predicted.
>>2586447I agree entirely.
>>2586449>Not a serious person with serious politicsProjection in its purest form
>>2586441If you won the election as NY mayor, what would you do?
>>2586430>5 years ago they were seething about black people heroizing people like George Floyd and having a pro crime culture or promoting people who do bad things like rappers. They were all about not doing this themselves. Ohhhh, you think 'the right' objected because BLM glorified a criminal.
No no no, it's because people were glorifying a black criminal. Within the past 20 years and probably longer, there was never any generation to degenerate, at least outside of the fringes.
William Luther Pierce is out. James Mason (pedophile) is in. reed seej.
Case in point: the NSN in Australia. They intentionally have tried to get jobs in disability support to groom autistic boys, and they allow obvious non-whoites into their fold (most notably a Greek nationalist who put their propaganda stickers in children's playgrounds and stole about $50,000 from members in fake fundraising). And they have connections to biker gang members. They're into raw milk organic nonsense. There is no intellectualism, nor much intellect, to be found. And this is a group other fascists online look up to as 'successful'.
>>2586450Trash image.
>>2586455
We gotta get this guy in office asap folks!
>>2586451I don't justify meeting with billionaire fascist thugs and talking about how we're "not so different and we have a lot of common ground", so my politics are at least moderately more serious than yours.
>>2586452Winning the NY mayor post in isolation of a broader movement or party platform is a largely symbolic achievement since nothing can effectively be done in such a position. I would use the publicity to propagandize for actual socialism until the city's bourgeoisie got sick of me and forced me out through duplicitous means.
>>2586455
Believe it or not, this is liberalism. Squandering a position of (limited) power because of selfish morality is counterrevolutionary.
>>2586454You make good points. Thank you for explaining. Gave me things to think about
>>2586457>Actual socialismI want to see you describe that
>>2586458It's like not telling your homie you love them because it'd be seen as "gay"
Not to sound like a liberal, but ACP is clearly a Russian psyop. Anti-woke communists who are influenced by Aleksandr Dugin?
I don't know why the FBI hasn't looked deeper into this.
>>2586463Because they are the FBI dawg lol
>>2586460Workers' control of all major industry, elected via a representative system of councils/soviets/whatever you want to call them. The replacement of private property and production with a rational system of economic planning. A global and internationalist orientation, with the ultimate goal of aligning all workers on the planet under the same banner and doing away with the already hopelessly obsolete nation-state and its many catastrophic consequences, not the least of which being militarism, imperialism, and an increasing probability of nuclear war.
>>2586466How do you actually convince the working class to do this? What are the preconditions for this? Is it just a matter of will? Or are there other steps before this?
>>2586452Organize in-person private one-on-one meetings with business leaders to negotiate exceptions to my reforms. You know, bribery shit.
and put radioactive dust in their drink. >>2586470Based posadist utilizing radioactive materials in every plan
>>2586468>How do you actually convince the working class to do this?The workers first need to represent their class interests by organizing under an independent and distinctly proletarian political party. This basic elementary step, an essential requirement for any socialist revolution, has still not even been achieved in America. If this step is not met, workers as a mass group cannot realistically gain the theoretical tools, knowledge, and political awareness to draw necessary revolutionary conclusions. They will, at best, become militant trade unionists and militant trade unionism as a force is not capable of seizing real political power.
>What are the preconditions for this?A large organized working class and some form of political crisis are the only two certain requirements, but some material and economic conditions are objectively more favorable than others. America, as the richest and most technologically advanced country on Earth, has such favorable material conditions but has unfortunately thus far been held back from progress by the workers' abysmally low consciousness and primitive organization (the workers of course themselves cannot principally be blamed for this situation.)
>>2586474I should clarify that when I say that "the workers need to organize under a political party", I mean of course the most theoretically and socially advanced and class conscious workers. Hoping that all the proletariat collectively and suddenly decide to join a communist party is of course pure pie-in-the-sky idealism, even though it's the optimal scenario.
>>2586474When does this happen? Why hasn't it happened yet?
>>2586459To be a bit more serious and less joking, it can be easy to fall into the trap of assuming people, especially the right, have underlying ideologically consistency. Think of all the liberalist gotchas one can find in any reddit outrage-bait - "you believe in free speech but you want to oppress gay people, aha!", the person posting that line subtly assumed that the people who called for free speech actually valued it universally as a right, as a liberalist believes they themselves value it.
The following video by Dead Domain interviews former white supremacists, one was a Stormfront moderator. The mod admits that they were spreading Great Replacement propaganda that they knew was bullshit, they didn't believe in it and IIRC assumed most neo-Nazis knew that too. There's no reward in being ideologically consistent or acting in good faith, it's about power and recruiting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7DUJbRJIKYAnd that's important to recognize in fascism. While we obviously have our own critiques of liberalism, they see it as weakness to exploit. They'll talk about freedom of speech whenever they're threatened with censorship, but they obviously don't give a fuck about most peoples' right to live, let alone speak. Neo-Nazis should be treated like politicians, their words in any argument are worthless rhetoric, not sincere beliefs or thought-out ideological positions.
See also: Jean-Paul Sartre's famous essay quote on The Anti-Semite, which still rings true 70+ years later.
>>2586479
How do you convince a working class person that they must focus on imperialism?
>>2586484Why should they? Exploratory question, not a challenge. How does focusing on imperialism benefit them?
>>2586478It's so fucking easy to take money from rightoids.
>>2586477>When does this happen?Historically, it's hard to provide just one general scenario. Economic depressions are the most common inciting incident (e.g., the Russian revolution and the failed German revolutions) but mass worker uprisings and have also happened in periods of relative abundance, like in France during 1968. In the US at least, the most revolutionary periods of class struggle have typically taken place under conditions of economic recession and war, and it's probably fair to predict that those will be the inciting factors in any future socialist revolution.
>Why hasn't it happened yet?In America? This is a very historically dense and complex question, but to try to simplify as much as possible, revolutionary consciousness in America has been in the past held back by a combination of an exceptionally high standard of living even among the working class, an extremely hostile and well-organized (as well as rabidly anticommunist) police state apparatus, a flexible and at times ingenious Democratic Party that has (so far) managed to keep any independent mass working class part from emerging (with the helpful assistance of various opportunist petty bourgeois "socialist" leaders), and, crucially, an extremely reactionary trade union bureaucracy that is firmly anchored to the two bourgeois parties (mainly, but not exclusively, the Democrats). The AFL-CIO is easily the most conservative and fanatically anticommunist trade union federation in the entire world, which is saying a LOT given the present decrepit state of the trade unions worldwide.
>>2586488>The AFL-CIO is easily the most conservative and fanatically anticommunist trade union federation in the entire worldMeant to write "in the entire first world", but honestly they give even the most reactionary countries a run for their money, so not a big typo.
>>2586483Thank you I'll watch it.
And since this is /USApol/, enjoy some Patriot Fail shenanigans (screencap from /farcism/ -
https://nukechan.net/social/thread/611.html )
>>2586493
Umm ackshually they’re all imperial treatlers because the barista at DSA didn’t wanna smash
>>2586493
Ok so we each individually go and talk to 200 million members of the working class and convince them all? Or do we just have to get a critical mass of enough of them? And how do we actually "organize" all of this? What are the barriers in the way right now? Will we be using democratic centralism and a vanguard party or will it be spontaneous?
>>2586495I remember they came to Chicago and marched downtown on July 4th but did it at 4am so no one would counter protest
>>2586236How is it reactionary exactly? Can you not be a Facebook lib?
>>2586495This what an activism voluntarism looks like.
>>2586503Exactly. They do that because we still threaten them. Make sure it stays that way.
>>2586494 mentions @ 0:53 the NSN doing their marches at 0100 and 0300. And it's for a reason.
The NSN tried to do a photo op and/or knife attack at an antifascist fundraiser before that, which lasted
24 seconds. See vidrel at 9:13 onwards.
>>2586510What are they bitching about now?
>>2586511There’s a new honky grifter and they're sending her money for saying the n word
>>2586504>How is ACP reactionary exactly?they literally shill "MAGA communism," "ethical landlords," "Women should obey and vote according to their husband's will," "LGBT people are all imperailist." . But they go even further, replacing Marx with Heidegger, Lenin with Dugin, Stalin with Nick Land, and Mao with Lyndon Larouche. They are not a Marxist party. They do interviews with Nick Fuentes and go on incel podcasts. They are a bunch of reactionary stremers and grifters, and the fact that you shill them as "the only game in town" is very suspect.
and if opposing bigotry is "liberal idpol" in your stupid reactionary opinion, then consider also that Hinkle said "Communists don't oppose private property."
>>2586212I think he's just insecure about the fact that the existing parties are not worth saving and deep down every member knows this.
>>2586524The existing parties are fine and doing pretty good right now all things considered. You're just a narcissist who thinks you can be the next lenin
>>2586270>the American LeftAnd by this ofc you mean the Democrats and their fake socialist chapters the CPUSA and DSA.
>>2586528They're doing more than you'll ever do. Kill yourself faggot
>>2586526>The existing parties are fine and doing pretty good 😂
>>2586530
it doesn't matter if he doesn't explicitly say that when he goes around talking about "ethical landlords" and his buddy/fellow party founder goes around saying "communists don't oppose private property" now does it. Now stop shilling these freaks and fuck off.
Hazoids and ACP shills should be shot on site. IP permabanned. And if it was up to me, I'd perma everyone who slanders the CPUSA and DSA in Usapol. If this weren't an anon image board, I work to pass that revolution so we could move past this ad nauseum bullshit. Or maybe I'll just leave and go to normal places with actual moderation. Anonymous anarchy does not make for a great left wing space anyways
this thread is constantly wrecked by 10 different types of schizo
>>2586525You probably don’t get this often but
Im glad there is at least one person out there paying attention to these dweebs enough to clip the dumbass things they say for posterity. I appreciate it because lord knows I don’t have the patience to sit through their live streams >>2586535I'd work to pass that as a resolution*
Pointless ad nauseum low effort slander of CPUSA and DSA should be a bannable offense imo. It's gotten so bad that we cannot discuss a single tangible mode of praxis in this thread without it detailing into "all Americans are hopeless reactionaries" bullshit.
I would love to see some enforcement around here but I imagine the admins are sympathetic to that line of immature vibes based analysis
>>2586541
nah. these guys go around scapegoating women and LGBT, and if I push back on that and say "focus on class" I'm supposedly doing "liberal idpol" rather than them doing reactionary scapegoating. I don't trust these reactionary freaks. They scapegoat women. They scapegoat LGBT. They say communists don't oppose private property (That is just revisionist, he wasn't even saying it as an appeal to China's gradualism), or go off about "ethical landlords".
Stop trying to "explain" why Hinkle needed to go on a misogynist podcast and say that shit. Fuck off dude. I have actual standards here.
>>2586542trvke, it's done nothing but keep the thread a shitflinging forum rather than even a discussion about the politics of the USA
>>2586543
People like you make reddit seem like a utopia lmao. Honestly I guess it makes sense. Bottom of the barrel ultra sectarian scum like you could only get menchies in a place like this.
>>2586546If you ever feel like appealing to the mods or whatever fuckin process they have here (I haven't looked into it or ever tried) you have my support. I get that this is an anonymous image board so it's going to always be pretty retarded, but man I would really hate to let this place get overrun by hyper-sectarian hazoids and iron felixes.
>>2586535>Democrat "communists" good, Republican "communists" badI'd take the PSL or even the fucking Greens over this charade any fucking time.
>>2586483>To be a bit more serious and less joking, it can be easy to fall into the trap of assuming people, especially the right, have underlying ideologically consistency. I think a lot of people's political views have their sources in pre-rational emotions, but it's especially pronounced among reactionaries. Humiliation/betrayal/fear of [something]. Status anxiety. You see this a lot in right-wing messaging where it's like THEY (whoever they are) can have wistful nostalgia about ancient kingdoms but white people can't, even though you can make up whatever fictional D&D fantasy worldbuilding from the past that you want, and people do all the time, they invent them constantly.
>See also: Jean-Paul Sartre's famous essay quote on The Anti-Semite, which still rings true 70+ years later.That whole book is pretty interesting. He felt antisemitism was a choice people make to escape from freedom and responsibility.
>>2586542>If you diss the Democrats you should be bannedKeep vootin
>>2586548
No dude lmao. I'm another anon but buddy listen… When something is in front of you and possible… You do it. Simple as. Queer liberation was an unbelievable revolutionary moment here in the USA. It saved my immediate family member's fucking life.
You guys constantly talk about "imperialism" as if it's this obvious tangible thing when it's actually incredibly abstract and multifaceted. And it is also something that IS being addressed!! It's always being addressed! It's just really fucking huge. Can you just please actually think about what "imperialism" actually means
>>2586549you could go on /meta/ and make a thread to request something like that, though it's a very slow board
>>2586548
We don’t need to throw the gays under the bus to fight imperialism.
Go be a tailist somewhere else.
>>2586556You don't understand what tailism means.
>>2586558you are appealing to reactionary dogwhistling in order to "fight imperialism" (itself possibly the most nebulous and meaningless of buzzwords), you are nothing but a red reactionary
>>2586501
Buddy this is just fucking larp. Imperialism dies under its own contradictions. You're not going to get a paramilitary to wage actual hot war against the USA military. The entire actual strategy that is the only one proven to work against the empire, is to force it to behave through global economic developmental means. This is the harm reduction route AND IT WORKS.
You're so fucking convinced that we have to have a civil war to stop America that you havent been paying one bit of attention to the REALITY that AMERICA IS WEAK AND GETTING WEAKER EVERY SINGLE DAY.
This is the natural consequence of late stage imperialism: it is unsustainable and therefore self sabotaging.
YOU ARE WASTING YOUR FUCKING TIME CALLING FOR ARMED PARAMILITARY COMMUNIST CADRES IN THE USA.
Grow
The fuck
Up!
>>2586558Well, I’m definitely not going to get the right definition of tailism from you so suck a tail pipe, buddy
How do we leftists cope with the fact that rightoids (by electing Trump twice) have done more to destroy the American empire than we have?
>>2586564
God you're a fucking imbecile. I hate this place so much why do I come here
Fellas I think we should nuke the site
Leftypol is doomed to eat shit because it is too anonymous and will never be moderated nor democratic enough to police any discussions. This place especially this thread is forever Lord of the Flies, where the most anti-social manic retard can fling shit and ruin the entire experience for everyone on the site and there is absolutely nothing that can be done.
Literally, and I mean this, reddit is better than this website. A fucking random but well moderated signal chat or discord server is like a beacon of salvation in comparison to this dogshit site. The only thing good about leftypol is it acts as a containment zone for the most mentally ill self centered red reactionary midwits on the entire internet that just so happen to dislike /pol/ for arbitrary reasons
>>2586569>>2586570boohoo its just words bro, most of the people here are clearly not serious or well read or have any possible chance of influencing the intellectual trend of the wider marxist movement. Chillax. Enjoy the absurdity.
>>2586542If criticizing proud and open appendages of the Democratic Party ever becomes a bannable offense then we'll know the feds' work here is done.
It'd be very very easy for the DSA and CPUSA to ward of 90+% of the criticism they get by simply officially saying "We will not endorse, fund, nor ask our members to vote for any candidates associated with bourgeois political parties." The fact that they haven't taken this simple step and likely never will testifies to the class character and political function of these organizations.
>>2586582They can't make that step because it would go against their reason for existing.
peace talks with zolonsko ended, now what
>>2586591ELON YOU DUMB FUCK
THAT MEANS AMERIGA CONTROLS THE FOURTH REICH
I swear there are only two types of porkies, class conscious ones and utter retards.
US-based tech billionaire Elon Musk has called for the dissolution of the European Union after the bloc fined his social media platform X.
On Friday, the European Commission fined X €120 million ($163 million) for “breaching its transparency obligations” under the 2022 Digital Services Act, which sets standards for accountability and content moderation. The ruling called the platform’s blue checkmark system ‘deceptive’ and accused it of weak advertising transparency and failing to provide required data access.
In a series of posts on Saturday, Musk, who often accuses Brussels of imposing excessive regulations, argued that “EU bureaucracy is slowly smothering Europe to death.”
“The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people,” Musk wrote, calling the bloc a “bureaucratic Monster.”
>Musk has to pay pennies out his pocket
<THAT'S IT, THAT IS THE FINAL STRAW, GAERFIEEELD
Reform UK and AfD receive another anonymous several million dollar donation in 3…2…1…
>>2586590>picHistorians will think that both democrats and republicans were in cahoots and were weak men responsible for the collapse
>>2586593Majority of modern capitalists are whiny children. They want to destroy the world over getting a paper cut.
They deserve to have all their wealth taken away. Even if you didn't have a socialist bone in your body, no regular sensible person can look at the capitalist class and think they should have power.
historians will be staggered by how stupid we were
>>2586574Also a lot of people say "primary contradiction = thing I don't like." But I don't think that's how you should think about it. It's more like "what is the key driver of change in a social system" or central conflict that if transformed will shape all the other contradictions. It's also not static. Like what Mao considered the "primary contradiction" in his own country changed over the course of his life, according to his own theories, so it was highly situational. It wasn't even imperialism vs. oppressed nations during some periods, during a period the primary contradiction was within the Communist Party over the correct vs. incorrect line.
So, for the U.S., the question is, for imperialism to be the primary contradiction, it must be the key driver of motion inside the United States. But the answer (I think) is NO. In fact, the U.S. has suffered defeats in wars overseas and that did not fundamentally change things here in the United States. Class relations, corporate power, wage-labor exploitation, political institutions all went on. Imperialism can be an important factor or aspect, i.e. secondary contradiction (within the U.S.) like alleviating class tensions or something like that, so it influences things.
>>2586594And western lib media wanted to convince me that Pootin was funding the far right. Turns out it was always Western capitalists who want deregulation and more easily exploitable and fragmented markets.
>>2586600
No I think I do actually
>>2586598I'm no historian but I'm already staggered.
>>2586601I mean they're basically one and the same, Putin only exists because of western interference in Russian politics. Not just the breakup of the USSR but everything after. They rigged the election for Yeltsin and Putin was his right-hand man.
>>2586605Putin was the reaction against Western interventions into Russia's internal affairs. To equate Putin with Musk on this basis is a falsification.
reminder this government expects to put people on the moon in 2027
>>2586608
He distorts it because if he confronted the truth his world view would collapse.
>>2586590You meant to say 11 more years of the special military operation and they might be able to reach Kiev possibly.
>>2586591>>2586593based retard
I swear Felix and his copycats need to touch grass. They are hopelessly out of touch with the human experience, much less the proletarian one.
>>2586611Hey, nobody said they would have to be alive too, just be on the moon.
>>2586616Please actually happen. It would be so funny please do it.
>>2586614The American experience isn't your typical proletarian experience and it's barely even human.
>>2586610imagine being a Putin dickrider and not knowing anything about his political history, how embarrassing - you're so deep into mythology you might as well be quoting the Bible
oh wait I can tell by your posting style you're that one guy, not worth seriously arguing with
>>2586618Unfortunately your experience is wholly bourgeois.
Imagine a new space race to Mars except this time its the US government that spend way too much and bankrupt themselves.
>>2586621
This retard is literally a pundit/podcaster who has never done a single productive thing in his entire life.
He is so insufferable that I'm amazed his neck is still intact.
>>2586623>spends too muchUSSR didn't spend "too much", USSR's problems was self-sabotage in all the fields. USA doesn't do self-sabotage, USA is just a capitalist country flowing down the river of history, unable to change it's course; compared to USSR, that did manage to change the flow of history twice and then gave up, USA follows the standard model of how things are supposed to go
>>2586622I'm not American, but yes, american society is deeply bourgeois.
>>2586627You could argue the Soviets put too much attention into the space race. They fell for American bait after Sputnik. It was a propaganda war between two hegemons trying to look better than one another. It still works because even now the idea of a Soviet Cosmonaut walking on the moon saying "I claim this satellite for the eternal science of Marxist Leninism and the liberation of the proletariat" pisses people off to this day.
>>2586623By the time it's technologically possible the only part of the US government left will be the military. They won't be able to waste the resources.
>>2586631>If you really think about it, it's us Americans who are the real victims and the Chinese are the bad guysAstonishing, never seen before ideological trickeries conjured up right before our eyes.
>>2586630>I'm not American<Tells people what life is like in AmericaAnyway, onto the real point I was trying to make.
Nothing Felix says makes any sense. I mean, he thinks a militia of 20 or so revolutionaries can destroy the USA, which is absurd already. However he also repeatedly insists most Americans are ruthlessly committed to defending imperialism, and that any sort of improvement in the lives of any Americans would only come at the cost of the rest of the world. So essentially Felix expects a couple dozen people to destroy an existentially hostile regime armed to the teeth for no material gain at all. Not even Nechayev was this delusional.
If we want to bring about change in America we must build a base of popular support. Without it, any relatively violent action is suicide.
>>2586635Now you're being intellectually dishonest.
>>2586636I think history diverged from what Lenin was describing? He predicted more inter-imperialist wars among national monopoly-capital blocs to divide up colonies, and World War II can arguably fit that, and what he was describing were reasonable extrapolations from his time, but the world in the 21st century with big multinational corporations is not really what he said would happen? It doesn't really map perfectly. Anyways, like I was saying though, there are "primary" and "secondary" contradictions change and I'm convinced that LARPing as the Bolsheviks in 1917 is DOA in the United States in 2026.
>>2586591Porkies arent sending their best.
>>2586638Him and his copycats are also just total sociopaths who erase these discussions from their minds every 2 hours and just repeat themselves no matter how much effort posting is done to refute them.
>>2586639did you know the guy who administers NASA now has absolutely zero experience in anything to do with aeronautics? He was transport secretary and all he did was revert fuel economy standards and pull federal funding for high speed rail.
>>2586638Nobody is talking about Felix except you, mang.
>Standpoint theoryLib mang*
>>2586648>Complaining about standpoint theoryReactionary detected lmao
>>2586640>and that's why communists from the DSA and CPUSA must vote for the DemocratsCool story, grandpa! Tell us another one!
>>2586644I mean, I appreciate their urgency I guess. At least the ones who aren't just trolls.
>>2586649For me it's diamat, for you it's standpoint theory. You and I are not the same.
>>2586640Nuclear weapons have changed the equation and made inter imperialist wars too costly to wage. But the division of spheres of influence among rival powers continues, as does the violent subjugation of anyone who tries to go their own way. The 21st century started with one of the most nakedly imperialist wars the world has ever seen in Iraq and the GWOT, opening up the people and resources of Iraq, Syria and Libya to western exploitation. The imperialist blocs cannot fight but the rest of the world is still rich with proxy conflicts.
And again, this is only one aspect of imperialism. Internationalized financial capital continues to work in every bourgeois state, but especially the USA.
>>2586654>Using diamat to repeal gay marriage but from the leftStandpoint theory destroyed!
It's so wild that we have this weird combo of like… Anti standpoint theory… Pro dialectical materialism? Guy? At this point you're just saying a buzzword to imply a framework that is actually just your personal vibes based analysis is right.
Back in my day, people complaining about standpoint theory were all bigots who got their teeth kicked in at the protest. Now that I think about it nothing's changed lol
>>2586657I said nothing about gays or gay marriage. You are arguing against spooks in your own head and projecting them onto me.
>>2586660Ah yes, one of the guiding principles of the ACP: One Woman, Two Holes.
Speaking from the vantage point of historical materialism one can only conclude that thr moon landing was fake
>>2586676I don't think it matters at this point.
>>2586667Like dude if you don't live here, you can't really say shit about what it's like because it's just so fucking complex. It's pretty basic shit man. Qualitative phenomenalogical ethnographic sociology etc. It's a near infinite set of data that only becomes comprehensible if you yourself experience it. Very very basic epistemological foundations here.
And you're refuting all of this with literally vulgar Marxist "terms" that you have no fucking clue how they actually fit into a broader framework. Because you're a midwit and you don't know shit
>>2586676>vantage pointstandpoint theory smuggling detected. liberal identified for destruction
>>2586672I don't want to "ignore" idpol, I want to destroy it, and you hiding behind a bigger retard (Haz) doesn't make you a significantly lesser retard.
Your democrat "communism" is just as shit as republican "communism".
Ah, a social chauvinist.
>>2586679it's kinda funny though seeing how we supposedly did it multiple times in the 70s but can't do it now because suddenly there is the van allen belt and space radioation
How many more brown shirts are going to start thinking they're left wing soon now that liberalism is hemorrhaging?
>Hurr durr muh idpol
It's like 2015 all over again make it stop!
WHITE JUCHE
>>2586680>Like dude if you don't live here, you can't really say shit about what it's likeYes I can, in fact, my observations are more accurate than yours.
Metaphor. I look into an opium den. Everybody is high as fuck. I'm sober. My observations are more accurate than those high on shit. The opium den is America and you are telling me I need to be high on your ideology for my observations to be valid, and I'm telling you: shut. the. fuck. up. junkie.
>>2586682Vietnam has a national women's union that steers the national Congress. I can't wait to hear your opinion on that
>>2586682>Your democrat "communism" proof?
>>2586692the vietcong was also largely compromised of women
Don't tell bro who was manning the AA guns at Stalingrad
Comprised
>>2586691What does a female orgasm feel like
>>2586674If you really think about it, it's not that I'm trying to force down Marx throat concepts alien to his entire ouvre, it's that Marx was a postmodernist all along!
You guys are barely literate, let alone conscious. You are so high on your own ideology and lack such basic skills as self-reflection that I sometimes doubt if we even belong to the same species. you guys, you don't understand. calling me out when I discriminate against proles for their identity … that's idpol! you're supposed to sit by silently and let me do that whenever i want, even to the detriment of the class struggle. Don't you understand?
>>2586699>i can't say why you're wrong, i can only make up shit you didn't say, and call you subhumanawesome
Bro the "fourth reich" started like 40 years ago. Mass privatisation is literal Nazi economic theory. Get with it bro.
>>2586692Based.
>>2586694The DSA and CPUSA endorsing Democrat candidates since forever?
>>2586704>The DSA and CPUSA endorsing Democrat candidates since forever i'm not defending those parties though, stupid ass
>>2586704>The DSA and CPUSA endorsing Democrat candidates since forever?Although this is retarded. America is in a unique position where there is literally no chance for a third party to gain any real positions in the houses of power. It is baked into the system. This is why even the most idle, revisionist communist parties in Europe at least promote candidates who are socialist both individually and party-wide.
>>2586698Your mom keeps telling me p good.
If you think that the real movement to abolish the state of things presents some faux philosophical dilemma of the brain in a jar or the problem of minds because you "have to feeeeel communism" and everybody "experiences communism in a unique and separate way" you are an irredeemable idiot.
>>2586708No I'm saying that the people who live here are going to make decisions about the place where they live more rationally and organically than you, some retard who doesn't live here. That's a very basic concept you deny. When it's the most obvious epistemological conclusion anyone could possibly come to
>>2586702I don't know how many different ways I have to spell out to you that standpoint theory is bourgeois hokum nothing to do with Marxism. This is like the third iteration of the same message I have been communicating to you, but as I said I understand your debilitating condition.
>>2586709>>2586707>sadly we have no choice but to vooote democrat<we are totally real communists, btw, here read some standpoint theoryBarely literate, barely conscious, barely human.
>>2586707Which is why we run the further left candidates we can
on the democratic ticket without them actually being
members of the Democrats themselves. Again, basic knowledge of how the system here works would prevent this confusion but for whatever reason, that's considered "standpoint theory"
>>2586712>>2586714Here's the thing right. Voting for socialist candidates on a democratic ticket is solid but at this point the Communists of the United States have been using this tactic for how long now? 50, 60 years?
>>2586710But then again we are talking about the "nation" that is the most individualistic, most propagandized, most un- and miseducated in recorded modern history.
Sure, let the Vietnamese decide what they want to do with their own country, yankees out! But the yankee is in your head and you cant escorcise it out from there because then nothing remains there but the echoing chasm of an empty skull.
>>2586712It's been this way for about 100 years because that literally actually is our only choice, in our specific system as far as electoral politics is concerned. That is the way the system is set up based on our constitution, it is literally impossible to do it any other way. If it was possible to just run a communist for president (which we've done a couple times actually) we would. Like I wonder what your genius plan is lol
At this point the "vanguard" for the revolution will appear, in due time, when it is clear the mode of production must be changed. Look to the unions, not to the very loosely organised pressure groups like the PSL and DSA or the aging increasingly revisionist groups like the CPUSA and such. A body of Marxist economists will emerge that will do away with notions of social democracy. The system is unstable and running on dust, social democracy would only delay the inevitable.
>>2586718If your only option is a bad option then don't take it. Passivity is always better then pseudo-praxis.
>>2586715Yes. It's been the only thing possible this entire time, and the only thing we did wrong is we didn't do enough of it. And that is now what we are doing and
it is working.
Things. Take. Time ESPECIALLY IN THE MOST CAPITALIST COUNTRY ON EARTH AND THE IMPERIAL CORE NATION. OF FUCKING COURSE COMMUNIST PARTIES WOULD BE HAMSTRUNG THROUGH THE 20TH CENTURY! You fucking retard
>>2586721You fucking dipshit. Please for the love of God read a book about American communism before you come here and act like you know better. You're talking out of your ass and it's obvious
>>2586722>it is workingIs it?
>sorry, we can't have communism, it's in our constitution that you have to voote democrap or retardlican
<we are winning, our strategy of vooting needs just a little more time to usher in communism
different species
>>2586724Just a few hundred more years of vooting bloo and we'll have communism, please educate your self.
>>2586725https://2025.electoral.dsausa.orgGoogle is right there brother.
It is a fucking miracle to have anyone openly identifying as a socialist win elections in America. That hasn't been possible for over 70 years. Because in America, if you called yourself a socialist, and especially if you ran for office, you were shot.
We have not been able to run as open socialists and communists in this country because we were unimaginably repressed. And now, the repressive apparatus is DEAD. They cannot stop us from running anymore. This is THE decade to run AS MANY CANDIDATES AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. That is our praxis as Americans, specific to our conditions.
>>2586726You know we also tried other more direct methods right? You know that right? Can you imagine what happened here? In the USA? What do you think happened to those communists who tried… Alternative methods?
Do you think the bourgeoisie are retarded enough to not understand the strategy of the American far left? This tactic has been going on since before any of you were born. They know that slowly and surely we will elect socialists in localised government positions who will attempt to make gentrified shitholes go from intolerable to bearable. They know we will attempt to bring socialism back into public discourse and debate. They know our tactics. They will tolerate it so far as it can be controlled and kept away from any genuine power. Once people ask in large numbers for a change in system, a change in the mode of production, then they will shut us down. Then you won't be able to elect any DemSoc or genuine Communist because their organisations will be banned to "protect democracy" like we see increasingly in central europe.
>>2586728Yeah no fucking shit. You think elections are peaceful? You think electing socialists to positions of power doesn't involve cracking heads and bomb threats? What do you think BLM riots were in Louisville?
>>2586655Not denying any of that. But what were we arguing about? Oh yeah, primary and secondary contradictions. The point is, the "primary" contradiction is what's supposed to determine the motion of other contradictions in a given historical situation. It's not a metaphysical "this is the worst thing capitalism does." You mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan. The fact is, the U.S. can LOSE major imperial wars without producing any fundamental political rupture in American society. The ruling classes absorb the L and things trudge on as they did before without any notable change in the internal balance of forces, which is exactly what you'd expect if you believe that imperialism is both a condition of capitalism but not the primary contradiction that determines its motion inside this society.
For most Americans, our government bombing Libya is not anchored in a situation they're directly situated in. Someone can moralize about that like the Empanada guy and how Americans are bad because they don't care, but the reality is, this "contradiction" business is supposed to inform a strategy that's anchored in the contradictions people are actually situated in. If you're not from the United States then I can understand where you might be coming from and so what determines your strategy will be different, but there are Marxist groups here that make "imperialism = primary contradiction" and they never get anywhere, and they don't command the loyalty of the masses, because they're choosing the wrong lever to move politics. Also, what matters a lot is who controls the state! Is it going to be democratic forces in this society, or monopoly/finance capital and tech bros?
>>2586733>What do you think BLM riots were in Louisville?Unorganised anger with no idea at all how to change the system?
>>2586732They can't. There is no going back. That was only possible when the rate of profit was high enough.
Slavery HAD to be abolished because it didn't work anymore. Feudalism HAD to be abolished. And now, capitalism HAS to be changed, because it's impossible to run things this way.
>>2586680>It's a near infinite set of data that only becomes comprehensible if you yourself experience it.A single standpoint colors and limits the experience giving only a piece of the puzzle.
Standpoint epistemology is not conducive to finding the best possible analysis that leads to the best possible actions. There needs to be some sort of outside feedback to make sure you are on the right track and grasp the entire situation otherwise your limited view will lead to walking off a cliff.
>>2586737>Slavery HAD to be abolished because it didn't work anymore.But it did work. Unpaid labour will always work, anon. That's why during reconstruction they massively increased forced labour sentences and arrested blacks for very minor pointless offences like loitering and such.
A huge amount of the labor done in this country is penal labor. That will only increase. It is almost inevitable that a sort of Nazi-style employment programme will be implemented in this country within the next 50 years.
>>2586739Imagine, if you will, not even experiencing it yourself, but reading about it on Reddit one time. What kind of standpoint would that give you in comparison to the person who has both lived AND read about their position in the world?
>>2586742No communism is a system that hasn't been implemented yet by any western communist party. Because we live in a bourgeois democracy.
>>2586740>But slavery is still viable today, even though literally no country in the world has a legitimatized legal slave economyAre you stupid?
>>2586745Communism as a mode of production exists nowhere at all. Communism as an ideology and political praxis as an endeavor towards the abolition of class and the state exists in almost every country on earth.
>>2586751Oh that thing from 80 years ago that was backwards then and backwards now and not viable and doesn't work? Nvm you're right
>>2586753Capitalism in general is bound to failure. Why are you so certain the Americans, who already have more than a million people forced to work in manufacturing on trumped-up charges, would not do something so extreme?
>>2586742The Bolsheviks under Lenin participated in state and town dumas under the Tsar, using these platforms for revolutionary purposes. The DSA is filled with MLs you can join them right now.
>>2586754They may try it, but it won't work? If the bourgeoisie are so stupid (likely) as to give us an opportunity to actually have a revolution, civil war style, then of course we'll take it. If they resort to forced labor that will only accelerate their downfall.
>>2586756If the west has adopted Nazi-style economics, which they have since mass privatisation was started by the Nazis it wouldn't be out of the question for them to deal with unemployment during a time where the need to mass manufacturing and industry boosts is existential using a Nazi method, under the guise of something socially liberal.
>>2586757The vast majority of the American economy is financialized fictitious bullshit. The global economy is incredibly robust. China won the trade war. America's economy is slumping very hard but won't fully crash. Right now is the time for reforms to ease the pain. We can do piecemeal revolution with parallel institutions. AES countries and modern technologies make many comparisons to ww2 Germany pretty antiquated. America has a way to chill out and avoid civil war while allowing the global economy to strengthen. That is what we must advocate for.
Advocating for civil war as a communist is irresponsible when it is our job to save the lives of the working class. Only when we are given no choice should we take that up.
>>2586741Depends if that reddit comment is stating a truth and the experience was an outlier or overly limited.
For example random comment says jumping off even a 10 story building will kill you. The person who fell 47 stories chimes in and says in his experience jumping off a 47 story building wont kill you.
That actually happen in real life but should I take his experience as a guide? But I would look at all possible evidence and come to the conclusion random reddit comment is more correct than lived experience of that person.
Anyway, not even disagreeing with your positions but standpoint epistemology is flawed and using it in defense of your arguments is flawed too.
>>2586760Communists (the actual intellectual organisational ones) do not desire a civil war because that's pointless. Communism won't come through a hypothetical HOI4 style conflict where we suddenly set up militias and fight the federal government until they give up. Communism will occur randomly when vital industries and state infrastructure are seized by the workers to strangle the economy and only then will the working class have the ability to overturn the state too quickly for the reactionaries to clamp it down - think of the Paris Commune and how they hesitated to seize the banks which brought them down faster. Fascist class-traitors like ᴉuᴉlossnW and Hitler are people who had the power to do them, and knew it, but then made deals with the industrialists and the financial classes to prop them up to even higher positions and with less restrictions in exchange for power.
>>2586764No standpoint epistemology is just… Epistemology. It's pretty basic. Who do you ask for medical advice? A doctor? Or a random person? Both could be right or wrong, but who is more LIKELY to be right? You're forgetting heuristics, as well as compounding probabilistic events that make things SO unlikely they might as well be impossible (limit as x -> inf).
Which is: if someone doesn't fucking living here, they're not going to understand how the culture works and how we interact socially. Understanding American political climate and possibilities *requires* first hand accounts. And the poster I was arguing with was *dismissing* first hand accounts, even when he didn't have his own. So he was sooooo far away from having any kind of fundamental background of knowledge to contribute to this conversation, that he needed me to tell him to shut the fuck up and go somewhere where he's actually useful
>>2586764AND ANOTHER THING
Someone who comes into a thread and bitches about "standpoint theory" and "idpol" was probably a Nazi less than a year ago. It's the most obvious tell and I'm surprised more people didn't jump on it, but then again this is the first place /polsters go when they get the leftism virus so this is kind of like a hazing ground.
>>2586779Get fired and free money from chuds but you have to have a video forever on the internet of you screaming the n word lmao
>>2586779>Get fired, get free money from chuds.This is the path forward for /leftypol/. We must set off several tactical N-bombs across the US in order to have reactionaries willingly give us all their money. We can then use that money to assemble an elite army of 20 cloned Evan Reif super-soldiers to overthrow the government of Detroit and establish a commune as a base of our operations. Finally, the destruction of America can begin.
>>2586771>No standpoint epistemology is just… Epistemology. It's pretty basic. Yeah, It's literally the most basic. 'My experience is the entire world' is baby thinking.
>who is more LIKELY to be right? The Doctor because he was supposed to have learned about basic scientific studies that go beyond his own personal anecdotal experience. Realistically speaking though even doctors have trouble with thinking beyond their own experience just like most people.
>Which is: if someone doesn't fucking living here, they're not going to understand how the culture works and how we interact socially. Problem with this is when you only understand your little part of America and not the entire country. You then use your limited experience to extrapolate to the rest of the country. I've talked to plenty of liberals who only lived in the suburbs or cities and their experiences and thus their understanding are severely lacking. Of course same goes with conservative who only live in the small town or rural area. They also use their limited experience to project onto the rest of the country.
>>2586775>Someone who comes into a thread and bitches about "standpoint theory" and "idpol" Because both are deeply flawed and liberals use it to advance their positions. Many Leftists who use it do so because they were liberals before but haven't moved on to Marxism. Also if someone comes to the left from the outside they aren't going just accept some random person's "lived experience" and will be skeptical.
Just give real evidence and arguments beyond personal experience, it's not difficult.
>>2586771>>2586788Well the idea that people positioned differently in a social structure tend to notice different problems isn't objectionable but I think what happened was this bad habit of people essentializing their ~lived experience~ as a special way of "knowing" or whatever to grant themselves moral authority over other people no idea how dumb their ideas are.
>>2586782Perhaps you haven't played Disco Elysium. Evrart is a secret socialist who plays the petty-bourgeois unionist for the workers benefit. This guy is just a cosplayer who smokes cigarettes.
>>2586792Yeah I think the idea of:
Guy who admits to have never stepped foot in America nor clearly hasn't read American labor history whatsoever has an aggressive and judgemental opinion of what American leftists should doI would think is pretty much a slam dunk for "this retard literally doesn't know anything" and it was turned into standpoint theory, which is technically true lmao
>>2586257Then why are they selling weapins to both sides of the civil war in Myanmar? Why are they doing massive investiments in israel? Why are they selling weapons to tbe philippines goverment? Why are they sellimg weapons to the indonesians who use them to futher their genocide in western papua? Why are they capitalist?
>>2586788>Don't use idpol and move on to MarxismWhat do you think idpol is in this context? Are you implying that things like affirmative action, racial impact statements for parole appeals, diversity initiates are all simply liberal reforms with no real positive effect on the working class?
>>2586805NTA, but considering that those policies mostly help the upper crust of the interested groups, yes
>>2586804>China weapons to both sides MyanmarOnly one side, the good one
>China investments in IsraelThey make no investments, only trade and no weapons
>Weapons to PhillipinesThey sold a few small arms decades ago and not since.
>Weapons to IndonesiaNot great, but still a moral grey area. Indonesia uses the weapons for standard defense mostly, and selling weapons is not in itself imperialism. Would be nice if they supported West papuan independence but my analysis is much more broad than one geopolitical concern especially considering they take a non-interventionist approach, for better or worse.
>China capitalistYour definition of capitalism I'm going to assume is commodity production or something of the like. I invite you to look into Cuba's economy, the USSR under the NEP immediately after their establishment through Lenin, Vietnam, and every other communist single party state in history.
>>2586814The word "mostly" struggling under massive weight there bud
>>2586570>reddit is better than this websitevery true
>>2586569>too anonymouselaborate?
>>2586771>if someone doesn't fucking living here, they're not going to understand how the culture works and how we interact sociallyAmerica has completely dominated the entire Western world's culture, we consume your books, movies, music, we read your news, we hold your shitty opinions, we adopt your fake ass holidays, we eat your food, and so on. This gives us a superior understanding of the enemy's way of life, because unlike the majority, we don't like this imposed shit. You on the other hand think that you are swimming in friendly waters when you spontaneously socially interact, while in reality you internalized the ideology.
This is why only non-Americans can truly understand the American way of life. This is my standpoint theory which trumps yours.
>muh doctorLol
>>2586775I've been a communist for almost 15 years now, you fucking moron. Your idpol shit is peak libbery.
>>2586864>This is why only non-Americans can truly understand the American way of lifeThis isn't just stupid this is advanced stupid
>>2586865really? what communist party are you a part of
>>2586847I'm moving there RIGHT NOW!!
making a new reddit called red-it
>>2586562This is an extremely naïve, optimistic and ultimately reformist position. The waning of American imperial influence through global development means only makes the descent of the US into civil war more likely
>>2586792I have no issue with people using anecdotal experience as a support for a larger argument. It personalizes the speaker, gives a concrete example and help ties them to an audience. But as you pointed out some people take that too far and then point towards the anecdote as THE argument and evidence in-itself.
The anecdote in particular should not be used in countries that don't have socialism because there was no successful revolution that happened. Meaning the standpoint of everyone from that country doesn't have experience of the thing they are arguing about. Then it becomes the blind leading the blind.
Theory on the other hand is like a walking stick so the blind people will have something to help keep them from drowning in a river. If the theory is correct then the lack of experience with revolution is limited in importance.
>>2586805>are all simply liberal reforms with no real positive effect on the working class?They have a positive impact if they force capitalists to give more to the working class than before. In practice though it just moves workers around in a zero sum way with the disadvantage of deepening division. If someone gets fired and they see that their replacement got hired simply because of their identity it will anger most. It also reinforces the imposed identity of the person fired funny enough. After all they got fired specifically for their identity.
Guys standpoint epistemology regards oppressed and marginalized people who might have experiences that cannot be accounted for or fully understood without understanding the subjectivity of those people. It's not for you americans to seethe about how we don't understand your super unique and unknowable way of life (that we're all exposed to through your cultural imperialism every hour of every day) and therefor cannot make comments on the conditions in America lol
>>2586870Civil war is a symptom of weakness stoopid
>>2586877Yeah, that's what I said
>>2586771Ameritards elected Drumpf two times lol they dont understand anything about their own country.
>>2586882Ameritards literally only have two options and they're the same person. One is just more forward in pursuing the goals of the financial class than the other.
>>2586876>Social media is real life therefore I know more about American than Americans doI felt embarrassed reading this
>you cant talk shit about Nazi germany if you werent there bro
why are burgers like this?
>>2586885Bro you are actually retarded if you think we can't understand your basic ass lives lmao, it's not really that different from us (as vassals of your empire) other than that we live in America's world and you live in America. It's wild how supremacist americans are man, even so called leftists, they really have no clue of their own position in the world
>I felt embarrassed reading thisIt's called cognitive dissonance
>>2586889NTA but folks will come on here and spout shit I can disprove my looking outside my window, and then throw a tantrum when being told they’re wrong
>>2586890embarrassing cope strawman anon, at least pretend to have an argument
>>2586889>as vassals of your empireLmaoo what British cope is this. Actually pathetic. There was no culture for you to lose lol 😂😂 you prolly also think Indian food is culturally imperializing your island give me a break
>>2586896>he doesn't know about the us empire>He thinks brittain is America's only vassalLmao ok anon
>>2586898>something nobody saidStay coping
>>2586899I wasn't the anon you were arguing with, I just thought your response was embarrassing
>>2586901Oh ok you don't know what vassal means
>>2586906>tea and agave = liquid deathhmm
>>2586903>Ehrm according to the technical definition of vassal 🤓☝Shut up and quit being pedantic, you know what Im talking about
>>2586911Words have meaning where we're from, sorry. Say what you mean next time
Okay in all seriousness this is embarrassing.
>>2586913you type like a liberal
>>2586775>american excepcionalist instantly turns to calling anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi meanwhile their taxes fund a genocidal ethnostateCinema
>>2586823> Only one side, the good oneWrong. They regularly send weapons and bombs to the junta.
>They make no investments, only trade and no weaponsWrong again
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/chinese-investments/https://archive.ph/uII4Uhttps://web.archive.org/web/20250107223407/https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-opens-chinese-operated-port-haifa-boost-regional-trade-links-2021-09-02/https://web.archive.org/web/20241202094656/https://truthout.org/articles/chinas-ties-with-israel-are-hindering-the-palestinian-struggle-for-freedom/https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-874132>They sold a few small arms decades ago and not since.Wrong yet again
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/south-china-sea/>Not great, but still a moral grey area. Indonesia uses the weapons for standard defense mostly, and selling weapons is not in itself imperialism. Would be nice if they supported West papuan independence but my analysis is much more broad than one geopolitical concern especially considering they take a non-interventionist approach, for better or worse. This is a dogshit excuse. They're no different from europe or the US making money from imperialism and colonialism.
>Your definition of capitalism I'm going to assume is commodity production or something of the like. I invite you to look into Cuba's economy, the USSR under the NEP immediately after their establishment through Lenin, Vietnam, and every other communist single party state in history.None of whom have a socialist economy.
It's also nonsensical to invoke the NEP as an excuse, since it lasted not even 20 years, was limited to agricultural production, Lenin himself called it a retreat caused by dire circumstances and a state capitalist system.
For socialism mean literally anything there must be a socialist economy with different relationships production. Engels already called out your revisionist bullcrap centuries ago. If all it takes for a nation to be socialist is a name change, then I suppose the lolberts are right in calling Nationalist Socialist Germany a socialist country.
And no, don't bring out "muh real movement" nonsense, the entire movement has defined itself in abolishing the capitalist mode of production (which is a set of relationships) from day one.
You're just a gusano nationalist who doesn't know what they're talking about; everything is fine so long ad it serves you to simp for your favorite country.
>>2586920>parasocial obsession with namefagsVery dumb teenager or mentally ill fed?
>>2586923So you're from Amerikkka, huh
>>2586924Yeah I’m going with mentally ill fed
>>2586925You're a mentally ill fed from Amerikkka?
>>2586926Ah, you’re that guy.
>>2586882Curious how everyone is critical of bourgepis democracy and it's non representation of the proletariat, yet they turn into their greatest belivers to shit on the proletariat.
Not to mention that the majority of yankeeland doesn't even vote, and the majority of those who do, don't vote for the republicans.
Maybe you should educate yourself a tiny little bit before talking shit.
>>2586927What guy? Am I everyone you foam out of your mouth about because I you're a mentally ill amerikkkan fed
>>2586928You’re talking to a troll, don’t bother
>>2586929Yeah, you’re definitely that guy
>>2586929<t. Ron Felćks.Does this guy never sleep!?!?!
Yes, America is a fascist state. It's a fascist state that both supports and wishes to devour smaller imperialist blocs like the EU etc.
>>2586922nta but do you think China would be in a better position towards constructing socialism without Deng's Reform and Opening-up? From what I can see it was really the only choice given the conditions of the time
>>2586940This is what few seem to understand. Most would agree that the NEP was important to ease the problems created by War Communism, even Trotsky did albeit critically, but few agree that Dengs reforms were important to ease the problems caused by the Cultural Revolution. It was fucking bad. Almost civil-war conditions. There is no denying Dengs reforms created bad outcomes, especially corruption within the party and the mass illegal seizure of land from peasants to make pointless local projects to make ridiculous amounts of money (like all privatised countries, land becomes the easiest way to make shit tons of money). But these corruption issues have been widely dealt with. The CPC takes corruption scarily seriously, with the death penalty or lengthy sentences facing those officials in politics of industry who are corrupt.
>>2586922WHAT THE FUCK???? YOU CAN'T JUST SAY CHINA DOES IMPERIALISM WITH EVIDENCE YOU ARE NOT A TRUE COMMUNIST REEEEEE
>>2586945do you know what imperialism is
>>2586947SO TRUE ZIOZIZTER! THOSE WEAPONS TO PISSRAEL AND PALESTINIAN HOMES BEING USED AS REAL ESTATE ARE JUST BEING SOLD IN A NON-IMPERIALIST WAY!
>>2586951Weapons to Israel? Do you have a source on that or are you going to spout this unprofessional /pol/ack nonsense? You are aware China is building significant developments for the West Bank right?
>>2586940Hard to tell, mostly because those reforms come after a prolonged buildup of reactionary elements. Take into account that before Deng china had already sided with the US in operation cyclone
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CycloneI think one would have had to change something futher back than either of these events to have a socialist china in the long term.
>>2586944Well that's useless if they stay on the capitalist road like they've been doing since then.
>>2586957So Israel is buying private commodities and weaponising them and that's Chinas responsibility? So I guess China supports Ukraine also? And Hezbollah? And Hamas? All at the same time? I guess the Soviet Union also supported the Lords Liberation Army and ISIS also, decades in advance. Incredible.
>>2586958>uselessThirty years ago China was poorer than sub-sahara Africa and now they beat the US to control the global economy
>>2586960Ah yes, so now intead of the imperial hegemon talking english they will use chinese instead. Trurly revolutionary.
This changes jackshit for somebody who's actually interested in abolishing capitalism.
>>2586959>T-They are not selling weapons they are just selling drones that are being used as weaponsSO TRUE ZIOZIZTER!!!
Guys hold up. I need to tell the Cubans they're class traitors and no longer socialist because they're accepting the Chinese breaking their global starvation embargo because China is "state capitalist" and imperialist or whatever.
>>2586963>Doesn't know anything about communism and capitalismYes we know anon it's very clear
>>2586964Who's "they"? Is it the Chinese government?
>>2586967>OKAY THEY'RE SELLING WEAPONS BUT IT'S NOT REAL COMMUNISM WITH CHINESE CHARATCERISTICS!!! CHINA HAS NO IDEA ABOUT THIS THEY'RE SO STUPID!!!THIS THIS THIS!!! SO FUCKING TRUE ZIOZIZTER!
>>2586968I'll repeat what I said. Who's "they"?
>>2586957>Retrofit commercial dronesSo they're not selling weapons then?
>>2586976shh, let him believe.
>>2586955Hmm seems like idealist/utopian reasoning to me. What would have had to change further back? How far back? Do we go back all the way to 1917 or what? What do you think the chinese communists should have done differently to be closer to construction of socialism then they are now?
>Pete Hegseth: "We are asking American taxpayers to fund the world's greatest military, we're asking mothers and fathers across America to trust us with their most precious resource, their sons and daughters, and we will honor their trust and their sacrifice."
Ok, here's the deal plebs: We get your money and your kids. You get to be poorer and watch your kids die before you do.
Sound good?
>>2586983Let's see how long that patriotism lasts when bodybags start coming back from vuvulza
>>2586989I'm sure people said that during the Afghan war.
>>2586991The issue with comparisons to old wars is that America isn't a unipolar hegemon anymore. A war with vevulza wouldn't be the rape that Afghanistan was, if they want victory it means total war, maybe not at the very start, but that's the direction it'll take when america starts losing
>>2586969>NO ONE IS SELLING DRONES TO ISRAEL THERE IS NO CHINA SINCE REAL COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIEDZIOZIZTERS KEEP WINNING IN THE FREE MARKET PLACE OF IDEAS
>>2587001If I sold my copy of Wage Labour and Capital to Israel that wouldn't mean my country was encouraging socialist subversion.
>>2587002>Chinese book company sells books to IsraelAhuh, but mister dengist, the IDF could boobytrap the book couldn't they? I am very intelligent.
China has cut off Western arms companies from access to Chinese minerals and is being accused of having supplied hamas with weapons.
Why are sinophobes such liars?
>>2587032because wishful thinking
>>2587032I suspect they are paid trolls on behalf of NATO.
>>2586963China doesnt plan to become red USA, they see it as self-destructive.
>This changes jackshit for somebody who's actually interested in abolishing capitalism.Wrong, the end of american hegemony changes a lot for people who want socialism since american hegemony has been historically the number 1 enemy of socialism.
>>2586574Not only that, imperialism is pretty divorced from the average American. That might change if Trump ignites a war in the American continents and a draft becomes necessary. However currently imperialism is carried out with AirPower, proxies, and sanctions. It’s all very well hidden, it’s hard to connect the endless over seas wars with the endless austerity to sustain them.
>>2586574>but that doesn't necessarily make the main contradiction shaping internal class politics in an imperialist countryImperialism doesnt need to be "turned inward" (fascism) to shape internal class politics in the imperial core countries
>At any rate, I think the primary contradiction within the U.S. is between democratic institutions and concentrated capital.Concentrated capital and imperialism are not separate things.
>>2587057
is this ragebait?
>>2587064Communism seeks to abolish private property, "abolishing capitalism" is vulgar anti-capitalism.
>>2586463They were at Nashrallah funeral and you call theM CIA. You are the fed or dickriding servant of amerika
>>2587007BBBUT CHYNA SELLS OCCUPIED PALESTINE STOVES AND CLOTHING. THAT IS AIDING GENOCIDEEEEE
>>2587073
how is worker ownership compatible with private property?
>>2587073
This is usapol nobody has ever read any theory if u want to talk theory you have to go to /edu/
>>2587067>abolish private propertyNot in one fell swoop. But yes.
>>2587073No he's right. Read babies first Marxist book, like Principles of Communism or something. Come on now anon.
>>2587078>Not in one fell swoop.Agree.
>>2587081Well translate it as disolve or whatever, the point is that communism is not vulgar anti-capitalism.
>>2587073
What does communism seek then anon? Or are you saying it doesn't seek anything because its just a movement not a person? It's unclear what your contention is
>>2587081
Oh excuse me your grace I didn't know this was an academic bible translation debate. I will use "lift/lifting" next time.
This place is a meme
>>2587086fat ass latina gremlins is communism, yes
>>2587081
Engels approved of the english edition of the communist manifesto that used abolish for aufheben. Even though abolish does not cover the full extent of the meaning, it's very cringe to try and use this as an argument
>>2587072Try the drones they use to bomb refugee camps
>>2587094Sounds a bit weird to package your drones with bombs and bomb jettison systems. Sounds like a very specific niche.
>>2587092
Sure, it's an objective movement that overturns the present state of thing, which includes the abolition/transcendence of capitalism and private property.
Generally I agree with you, but you're being unnecessarily hostile and pedantic
>>2587100
I'd love to enter your deranged mind. Why would Engels, someone who spent much of his time in England, who became materialist and socialist because of the situation he saw in England, deliberately deceive English speaking people? You cretin.
>>2587100
>He approved of that translation alongside the actual word because he knew it would function as an easy filter between communists who were actually interested in the real movement as it operates in the real world and the liberal proto-fascists who wanted capitalism destroyed outright
Really where did he say this? Or is this a conspiracy that you concocted in your mind? My theory is that he just thought it sufficed as a translation
>Had he not done so there is a real chance that the First Internationale would have been completely taken over by Baukuninites, stifling the real movement in its cradle and we would never have the USSR
Oh I see you're just shitposting, alright nice bait anon
>>2587107
Bourgeois chauvinist delusion. This is not a serious conversation.
>>2586935>I know therefore everyone knows therefore shut upyou know. not everyone necessarily
>>2586554no offense but the essence of your comment is reformism
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