🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™
<My Oil. My Iran. My Strait. OP Backup Site:
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(Amerika is the most incarcerated country in the world!)
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• 📖 Angela Davis - Are Prisons Obsolete? //
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SHlCLyM4FY⚖️ Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
• deep list of horrible shit we (royal we) have done //
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/2/10/struggling-to-navigate-the-epstein-files-here-is-a-visual-guideEssential American Politik 📖
• 📖 WEB Du Bois - Black Reconstruction //
https://cominsitu.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/w-e-b-du-bois-black-reconstruction-an-essay-toward-a-history-of-the-part-which-black-folk-played-in-the-attempt-to-reconstruct-democracy-2.pdf• 📖 Eugene Debs - Fourth of July Speech //
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https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf• 📖 The Declaration of Independence
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https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdfs/douglass_july_4_speech.pdf• 📖 A Trail of Broken Treaties – American Indian Movement //
https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf• 📖 Custer Died for Your Sins – Vine Deloria Jr. //
http://www.riversimulator.org/Resources/Books/CusterDiedForYourSinsAnIndianManifesto1969Deloria.pdf• 📖 Emancipation Proclamation – Lincoln //
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https://americainclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Common-Sense-Full-Text.pdf• 📖 An Indigenous History of the United States – Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz //
https://nycstandswithstandingrock.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dunbar-ortiz-2014.pdf• 📖 Huey Long – Share Our Wealth //
https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth/huey-longs-share-our-wealth-speechWhich side are you on? - Pete Seeger
▶
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XKMwWZVpPEPrevious Thread:
>>2795922 >>2799000unironically I first became disgusted with capitalism not because I read karl marx, but because I came of age around the 2008 crisis, and it was around that time I also became familiar with concepts not even from marx like planned obsolesence, artificial scarcity, etc. I learned companies destroy oversupplied commodities instead of giving them away to "stabilize prices" it was then that I expressed my disgust with our current economic system, got called a "marxist" by angry libs/conservatives, and that was what prompted me to look into "this marx guy." You can go back to headlines from 2008 claiming marx was being googled at triple the rate compared to previous years. maybe the reason people become marxists isn't dogmatic worship of marx, but because they had their own ideas about capitalism which were accused of "marxist dogmatism" which made them curious. That's how it happened to me and I suspect millions of others. This is without me even knowing what communism was other than through cartoonish caricatures like zangief.
>>2799012Yep and he wasn't even on the same floor as Trump.
This was either a false flag or the worst assassination attempt of all time.
>>2799009What is up with the talks of midwestern milfs.
Also, it’s International Workers' Day
>>2798936>>2799009
I wish I knew
>>2799009
cobbed corn and miller lite
Reminder if you’re “striking” today all you’re doing is showing solidarity with the left wing of Nazism as they protest against the lack of efficient genocide
>>2799031mel gibson is very good at reactionary propaganda, I have to give him that. skilled at his craft. apocalypto is riveting and basically mesoamerican rambo 1
>>2799009old people in general smell bad
>>2799014me too, and I also turned 18 in 2007 so it was just perfect to be radicalized by the sheer lack of empathy among the bourgeois for us. I mean I had read some Marx in high school but it didn't radicalize me since the things he discussed were entirely within the context of the time period he lived in which is so far removed from me. what radicalized me was actually seeing the suffering and injustice in the world during that financial crisis, and realizing it's all linked to money, and the bourgeois carefully distribute suffering downwards so they don't have to feel any kind of inconvenience even during hard times, while the poor have suffer multitudes more to make up for the CEO raising his own salary to avoid adjusting his excessive lifestyle amid a economic collapse. like just experiencing real life is enough to radicalize most people if they just don't watch network news or engage with electoral distractions at all tbh. then you add in the amount of injustice that goes on from rich nations terrorizing poor nations and the amount of human life lost to capitalist greed and i have a very easy time radicalizing any illiterate bum I come across by just pointing directly to real world modern day examples of what's going on.
>>2799028Sorry but my immediate material interests are my wage and my labour not some middle eastern people.
>>2799046>>2799044Ok
Today I will demand for higher wages and less working hours
>REEEEEEEEE THAT'S PRIVILEGE REEEEEE >>2799029“Porky” is literally endorsing your pathetic liberal dance party
>>2799047>Today I will demand for higher wages and less working hoursGood.
>Greentexttake it up with the other retard
>>2799050that's why he said thanks porky
>>2799055>appropriatemeant to say appreciate here, i'm retarded
>>2799050They should do so every single day TBH
>>2799052corn sucks. idk how you midwestern fellers eat that stuff. rather me a tater
>>2799028>>2799035You're both retards
>>2799052He will NEVER be silly
Reminder that anti-Platners are Liz Cheney liberals.
>On April 30, 2026, Mills announced that she was suspending her U.S. Senate campaign, saying that she no longer had the financial resources to compete against Platner
lol
>>2799103they don't understand the shit i say on xitter
zigga heil platner
My generationality can be boiled down to this
Boomers: Mostly into following the pact leader whether lib or con
Gen Xers: Consumerists of the highest order, generally likes mainstream stuff from their era.
Millennials: Hipsters to some degree, even the most funco pop collecting sorts will scoff at someone who's taste is too mainstream
Zoomers: Obsessed with bigger numbers in some fashion, only into things that have the most "Aura" and presence. Generally unimpressed with mundanity
>>2799113genpol is reactionary but also I agree with most of your observations as a millennialchad. we're somehow simultaneously the most hipster and the most "I am cringe and I am free" dweebs.
There's only two generations, the lead poisoning generation and the post-lead poisoning generation.
>>2799127
I think Millennials' appreciation for being cringe comes from seeking authenticity sandwiched between the narcissism of boomers, the greedy consumerism of Gen X, and the general social media brainrot and fear of being ridiculed in Zoomers. We may have no economic hope and be even poorer than Zoomers but at least we are free.
>>2799129Adding onto your post but I think that Gen Alpha is poised to be even more nihilistic but also less vain that Zoomers are. They are going to be too stupid to care that much about what other people think of them, but they will also have gruggy media tastes.
>>2799132Their brains are gonna be completely warped by AI slop, it will be as bad as lead was for boomers if not worse.
>>2799132/r/teachers is a goldmine of gen alpha shitposts
>chud goy clique make the foids shakelmao
one observation I've had is every successive generation after the popularization of streaming has even worse streamer role models. for millennials it was harmless ragebaiters/lolwcows like Athene and Idra, for Zoomers it was racist chuds/scammers like xqc and Asmongoy, and now we're all the way at Gen Alpha worshiping fucking Clavicular and random irl streamers that just make a career out of harassing people/getting arrested/crashing expensive cars on public roads. pretty bleak and I'm morbidly curious how Gen Beta(male) will top this.
Is it schizo of me to just not believe in FBI crime statistics at all?
Happy May Day everyone! Hope you're all doing alright!
>>2799143Not at all.
Especially considering that it's derived from local police data and they make shit up all the time.
The Rotisserie Chicken Law is BS: Demand EBT as cash, anywhere, for any food
https://www.patreon.com/posts/157106766>>2799162>New York PostBe serious anon
>>2799163why is this on patreon and not your website?
>>2799137you've reposted this /isg/ in /usapol/ for the fourth day in a row, making me doubt this story is anything but a 4chud pretending to be a teacher on a subreddit. Like I said the first time this was posted, I very highly doubt a teacher would have committed to memory the highly contrived terminally online sentences full of obscure jargon quoted therein, let alone recalled them perfectly with accurate spellings later on in a subreddit
reddit crossposters must be boiled
>>2799137https://old.reddit.com/user/FriendlyWolverine765/submitted/doesn't seem to be real. account name seems generated. no post history
>>2799162american rightoids were fine with mob rule when it was lynch mobs. they only question it now that they are no longer the ruling mob.
>>2799172>no post historyif he has 1000+ karma he obviously has a post history. Reddit just isn't showing it
>>2799163>HOUDINI Magazine>34 members>73 posts>$59.29 /monthbe sure to hide this info so that when your monthly income eventually surpasses the subsistence of the average worker, you don't fall under scrutiny for it.
>>2799177then link the thread
>>2799177>if he has 1000+ karma he obviously has a post history. Reddit just isn't showing itmaybe he just karma farms with fake stories and deletes them afterwards so nobody can scrutinize the inconsistencies
>>2799143also even if they're true it doesn't support the conclusions that people usually use them to draw. there are hidden assumptions and leaps in reasoning people add to them
>>2799170I just genuinely think it's a funny post, I don't even think it's real myself it's just funny.
>>2799172good detective work I'm sure it was really posted(but not something that actually happened) but just deleted because these karma farm bots post lots of ragebaity content on random subs and then delete their history so they can be sold to influence campaigns since higher karma accounts have more influence. For whatever reason deleting your reddit comment history doesn't delete the karma accrued from those comments so it's a very effective way to monetize the system. Curious…
>>2799163>houdini's personal patreon now makes more per month than leftypol the websiteno wonder moderators are unmotivated
>>2799188>these karma farm bots post lots of ragebaity content on random subs and then delete their history so they can be sold to influence campaigns since higher karma accounts have more influence. That is interesting
>>2799190moderators are volunteers, they can quit whenever they want.
>>2799193unionize the mods
>>2799192also those randomly generated 2 word+numbers names that you see pop up all over normie social media isn't necessarily indicative of a bot, it's an option to "create" a username for you I'm not sure if it's tied to the smartphone app or what but lots of people do it for throwaway accounts and they all fit the same format. If you've ever played young people online games they also all have these randomly generated names for new accounts iirc.
my first experience with it was on the Nintendo Switch where upon logging into the online service for the first time it'd generate you a random name and you basically have to opt-in to use your own name.
>>2799166smaller audience + part of our current directive is to have less political content on the magazine site itself for the next few months
>>2799202>part of our current directive is to have less political content on the magazine site itself for the next few monthsis this part of your bail conditions
>>2799204benefits of running a 'culture' magazine and not a 'politics' magazine
>>2799215Every cult requires sacrifices
>When the United States decreed an embargo against Cuba in 1960 and 1962, its Latin American and European allies followed suit, however, Francisco Franco did not place an embargo on Cuba. American pressure against the Spanish embargo breach was deflected by the renegotiation of the American military bases in Spain in 1963. After Franco's death, Cuba decreed three days of mourning
i dont want to hear bitching about China's trading partners ever again
>>2799215there's links in the OP that keep really in depth status on this stuff
>>2799171>>2799182Reddit is a sketchy and heavily propagandized place.
>>2799245yes, that's why the stupid screenshot posted 4 times in the last 4 days shouldn't be taken at face value
>>2799230Pretty sure Fidel’s dad and a lot of his mentors growing up were Falangists, too.
That aside I can’t understand how that would be justification for anyone not to support Cuba if America tries conquering it
>>2799103it's so funny the sectarian division on the US, that pulls thing like
>we like only the nazis that like us>we hate only the nazis that hate uswhile at the same time both party are having nazis in their organizations, which makes the two parties indivisible.
and no one thinks for a second:
<HMMMMMMM FUCKING THING IT'S INSANE THAT SHIT IS HAPPENING. >>2799268Of course it's Staten Island
>>2799267i see… so chuds are trying to smuggle in their stupid lingo through pop culture, thinking they'll smuggle their politics along with the lingo. but they'll realize after 5 or so years that they'll just create a bunch of apolitical lumpen who say silly things that they don't actually mean.
>>2799275we know, it's basically public knowledge that every US politician is engaging in insider trading and that the Trump admin in particular is openly manipulating the markets.
>>2799305Not saying it will happen, but if the US working class ever did overthrow their bourgeoisie, where would they flee to? What would be their Taiwan?
>>2799307previously I would have said one of the Gulf States but given the Iran situation that might be less likely, so possibly some South American puppet state shithole like Argentina. though I also don't think there is any possible timeline where the US has a revolution that unilaterally overthrows its federal govt, because the political reality of the United States has especially over the past decade become more like a bunch of smaller countries that are nominally individual states that are part of a union. if any organized revolutionary left forms in the US, the bourgeoisie would most likely flee to the south where they're already trying to turn it into basically a slave labor prison colony/child trafficking zone.
>>2799307The UK or perhaps Iceland
>>2799307their mecca at little saint james.
>>2799341I don't know anyone named Donald other than Trump and the fucking duck.
>>2799341>>2799347Was thinking same thing about benjamin
>>2799230Israel is worse than franco also china is in a way stronger situation than cuba ever was
>>2799355All fascist states are equally bad ?
Just in death's alone the israeli are ahead of Franco
>>2799006>It's less work to bring up a quote than explain it in your own words. I do agree that a lot of Marxists don't think for themselves much thoughpersonally if I wrote my own version of capital, I would start with subsistence and labor, rather than commodities. But really that's more of a choice of how to structure the exposition than a difference in conclusion.
decolonise turtle island, now!
can somebody redpill me on the redistricting nonsense?
>>2799406it's just the bourgeois duopoly trying to out-gerrymander one another
>>2799411If America’s average age was 25 or younger you’d see civil war and bombings over this
The US collapse, if it ever happens, would probably mirror La Violencia in Colombia, all the conservative and liberal death squads before the emergence of FARC and ELN
>>2799337Great believers in democracy, the Kuomintang.
>>2799406>Trump is scared of losing the midterms<Tried passing the SAVE act to basically make it harder for people to vote>Failed<Plan B: demand Republicans in Texas gerrymander their state so the Dems have less representation in Congress>Dems actually show backbone for once and tell Texas that if it gerrymanders the state even more they’ll gerrymander California.<Texas does it anyways >California gerrymanders their state to take away more Republican seats<Trump seethes, says the gerrymandering California did is illegal (Californians voted to gerrymander, Texas just decreed it)>More Red States try to redistrict to get rid of Democrats chances of winning the midterms <Could backfire because those new red seats might be less guaranteed than they think>More Blue states redistrict to balance the seats Dems would lose.<Louisiana’s redistricting amounts to leaving Black people unrepresented >Goes all the way to the Supreme Court<Supreme Court rules that Republicans can gerrymander the state in such a way that they remove the only black district from the electoral map>Clarence Thomas says that minorities aren’t “entitled” to representation and they should suck it up.And that’s all I can remember.
>>2799415I imagine people under 25 care even less about gerrymandering than people over 25
>>2799422Clarence Thomas is such a dumb fucking piece of shit. I know we shouldn't get too invested to bourgeoisie party politics nonsense but I have a special type of hatred for that guy. cant wait till that uygh.a. drops dead
>>2799431That would just lead to a huge resurgence of counter culture
>>2799406basically republicans don't want black people to vote because racism and also they tend to vote democrat
(it's not really any more complicated than that)
>>2799439from what region?
>>2799440The black vote usually doesn't benefit us, either. Every time there's a primary between a socialist and a establishment neolib, blacks usually go with the lib
>>2799427I think it’s funny how he comes from the milieu of Black Nationalism. Like I’ve heard the claim he despises Black people but he also allegedly tries to mentor young Black paralegals.
>>2799431The Sunbelt reich must be destroyed
>>2799406Its obvious. These Democrats support blue MAGA Jim crow gerrymandering like in virgina.
>>2799449Their antisocial cracker vote doesnt matter because they side with fascism every time. They resort to MAGA gerrymandering and Cracking and Packing so they are blue maga
>>2799452>Another pillar of the strategy is the cultural battle waged from evangelical churches. According to the audios revealed by Diario Red, Hernández instructs Zambrano to align all religious congregations so that “people forget the past. And that they think it was the left who did that.”>"In Honduras, evangelicals have already mobilized their parishioners in massive marches against Xiomara Castro’s government, such as the one summoned in August 2025 under the slogan ‘for peace and in defense of democracy’ in coordination with the Honduran Council of Private Enterprise"The eternal evangeliKKKal at it again…
>>2799457Mught be the worse religion
>>2799416>all the conservative and liberal death squads Too hated and bullied
>>2799453he specifically does not believe that racial coexistence is possible similar to some black nationalists of the time of his youth. so he's operating from a position of despair in a way, he only believes in just doing what one can for oneself and fuck everyone else.
▶︎Anonymous (You) 01-05-26 22:38:51 No.2799479
>>2799449>The black vote usually doesn't benefit us, either. Every time there's a primary between a socialist and a establishment neolib, blacks usually go with the libnot really dude
>but bernie vs bidenbernie's not a socialist, he's a social democrat, and democrats both black and white in this country are protestants for the most part, and bernie is not a protestant. I bet that had to do more with their suspicion of him than his
socialism social democracy.
fixed>>2799488liberals let out a sigh of relief. they thought the current crisis could spell their death. fortunately DSA and Hasan Piker are their to save them.
>>2799503Are you even American? Why do you want us to suffer 4 more years of Republitard rule? You yourself accept that US foreign policy is the same regardless of which party is in power. So why not let us choose the less insane party? Some of the best years of my life happened in the Obama years and then under Biden.
>>2799503I mean why would people support idiots who want their lives to get worse in place of the people saying they deserve better?
>>2799504fuck that h8er. let's go vote for graham platner!
>>2799505it's genius how the political environment in the USA is setup. such populist messaging must come from outside the establishment of the democratic party and once it gets enough momentum to capture the votes, they are absorbed into it and redirected towards perpetuating the misery.
>>2799504I understand Obama, but Biden, really? Things never have been the same since 2020, and not in a good way.
>>2799506From what I can tell zoomers are chudmaxxing but the ones that aren't are commiemaxxing. Thus explaining the difference
>>2799513You’re basing that entirely on vibes.
>>2799509Any populist alternative that’s left wing in the U.S. would be a kind of vulgar social democracy at present. The idea that you’d have a radical socialist populist party with the current configuration of the socialist movement out here is a pipe dream.
>>2799520You sound like hulk hogan. Is socialism just not amerikan?
>>2799520>Any populist alternative that’s left wing in the U.S. would be a kind of vulgar social democracy at present.indeed. that's the genius of it. and because it's a vulgar social democratic movement it is easily subsumed into the democratic party. where those young (under 40 years old) idealistic "radicals" are worn down by the stagnant immutable machine of USA politics and conclude that they must be pragmatic and compromise so they start giving up their progressive positions for small games that get rolled back you know the rest
>>2799512"Yeah I get my mail from my parents…"
"Yeah I don't need a gym membership because once a week I can shower at my parent's house"
God Anglo families are demented.
>>2799525>Hates America enough to speak in Maoist Standard English<“Why would you say Socialism isn’t American?!”Honestly that’s the weirdest part of all this. It’s like how Republicans whine that people call them racist when they’re the racism party.
>>2799431Honkytonk bars are nicer than clubs and way more focused on dancing so ofc people have started bringing it north, clubs should just get better
>>2799544Just get misoprostol instead
>>2799544long term the problem kinda solves itself
>ban abortion>prosecute women for getting abortions>any woman with the means to leave the state will leave to avoid womb inspection day>lots of unwanted children are born to poor people who can't take care of them and just abandon them>crime rates go up as there's now a surplus of young men without any hope for the future and no parents roaming the streets doing whatever they can to survive>state goes to shit>you are now Romania >>2799556Hell yeah dude Captain Jack Sparrow
>>2799561that sure is a png wow
>>2799544that only hurts poor people. rich people can get their shit everywhere.
>>2799514the USA or this website?
>>2799570i was ready to buy her substack until I saw she's a mom.
natalists get the rope.
>>2799552i hate ceaceascu, not because of the typical reasons, but because he made more romanians than any other government before him, and for that he deserved execution
>>2799506Fingers crossed it's not just a halucination
>>2799510nta, but biden had to face covid/post covid, tbfh.
No King General Strike ststus?
A zionist settler beat the shit out of a catholic nun in Jerusalem. I was wondering why the commies were hating extra hard on Christians yesterday.
>>2799674We only shit on evangeliKKKals these days. Catholics are fine (for the time being)
>>2799561AI at this point in time can't replace any job other than social media manager and professional shitposting.
>>2799693China already laid several hundred kilometers of highway using unmanned AI-driven vehicles that communicated with each other about the physical parameters of the asphalt several thousand times per second.
>>2799674they should strangle each other
>>2799687im ok with catholics but them being chill these days is only because evangelicals have taken up the job of being the christfag death cult.
>>2799751>More car dependency Doubt
>>2799818dont threaten me with a good time
wanhoop in die vrenigde state
>>2799818Sounds like every shitlib when they talk about communism
>>2799468This is FBA and ADOS style mentality.
>>2799453Racial coexistence will be possible when we feed all identitarians of all races into a woodchipper.
>>2799903Does this have something to do with Israel not recognizing the Armenian Genocide?
>>2799693>>2799751it is quite fascinating how marketing drones made any discourse about 'AI' impossible by shoving this useless word into peoples' brains.
>>2799905Blockchain
NFT
Metaverse
Crypto
>>2799903notice how they dont show his lower body
>>2799561But at what cost???
>>2799506It's funny how doomer leftypol is nowadays despite communism being more political viable and popular in america since like the 1930s. Karen and Brad everylib is more radicalized and optimistic than some of my fellow burnouts.
>>2799915yes. revolution about to happen in burgerland for sure
>>2799915Maybe because this place is filled with failed adults most likely affected with a variety of mental issues. Not everyone but it probably describes me, at least a little bit.
>>2799915“Communism” in America as promoted by the western left is just woke national socialism
>>2799924Your only problem with that is the "woke" part, be honest.
>>2799926Actually my problem with American leftists is that you want to purge imperialism of its most inefficient aspects so that the Fourth Reich can reign over the world forever, with untold billions enslaved so that the American herrenvolk get cheaper treats. The woke aspect just makes them more annoying
>>2799935Uncle Ted weeps from the grave
ultra low cost, ultra low budget spirit airlines died.
a split of a second of silence for the reason that the big boys can't guage prices too much.
for the 17k jobs lost.
>>2799938Another trans queen down…
“I don’t think [Barack] Obama could pass it,” he said. “[Joe] Biden? Give me a break. You know, the first question’s very easy. It’s a lion, a giraffe, a bear, and a shark. They say, ‘Which one is the bear?’ And everybody says ohhh – 30 questions. Very standard, very standard test, but very tough around those last 10 questions.”
The politician then claimed results of the test caused a physician to call him “a mad genius.”
Trump continued to explain how his the exam went down, saying the questions were "tough" to crack.
“They say, ‘Take a number, any number.’ Ok, I’ll take 99. ‘Multiply times nine.’ Ok. ‘Divide it by three.’ Good. ‘Add 4,293.’ That’s good. ‘Divide by two. Subtract 93. Divide by 9. What is your answer?’ Now, they go a little slower than that, but not much," the businessman noted.
"I don’t want to waste a lot of time. But there weren’t a lot of people that get it right. I got it right, you know? It was actually longer and more complex than that. But no, it’s a tough test, so I took it. And then everyone said, ‘All right, good. He’s smart,'" he boasted.
>>2799940spirit airlines wasn't even that "low cost" anymore even compared to main airlines the moment you tried to bring anything on board
>>2799993what if you try to bring anything on board with the expensives one?
>>2799633Got banned from reddit for calling Euros "Snow Monkeys" ages ago so I'm all good on that front, might get caught for some of the shit I've posted in Discord.
Ah well.
>>2799674Man all the nuns I knew growing up were some of the nicest women out there. It's a sign of how morally depraved these freaks are that they'll attack one.
>>2799989at least somali pirates are motivated by their own poverty and righteous disgust with imperialism
burger piracy near venezuela and iran is the open and proud robbery carried out against the poor by the rich. Somali pirates are robin hoods with bad PR.
>>2800133>Man all the nuns I knew growing up were some of the nicest women out there.Same, even the few younger women I knew who went and became nuns were very kind people. It's all sick shit, they love hurting people who won't or can't fight back.
>>2800163This really didn't help the bolsheviks in the long run that much and was more or less an adventurist mistake.
>>2800165You're a fucking retard bank robberies were their primary means of funding their activities up until the revolution.
Begone spineless shitlib.
The communist revolution is nothing but the highest form of bookkeeping.
>>2800156There's an old joke I heard from a Priest ages ago that amounted to: "You never want to take a nun's confession, its like being stoned to death with popcorn."
Man when I was younger I always wanted to visit Jerusalem and see maybe the Church of The Sepulcher and the Dome of The Rock, but beyond just not wanting any money to go to Israel, if I went there and saw some motherfucker harassing a nun or a priest or someone else I'm pretty sure I'd end up shot.
>>2800162>Every uygha that goes around stealing shit is not a based JDPON foot soldier.Yes, and I didn't even remotely suggest that, nor would I have, I merely suggested that their poverty and position in the imperialist food chain is a sufficient and understandable motivator for the behavior of the Somali pirates, since the meme I was responding to was comparing them with the USA's open pillaging of Venezuelan and Iranian oil on the seas.
>>2800169No, it was party dues.
socialist revolution in usa by 2027?
>>2800173It was Lenin's mom dying and getting a huge inheritance
>>2799924And was menshevism the most wholesome and pure ideology? Remember: how something starts is not necessarily how it ends. Never lose hope.
>>2800173No, it really was bank robberies(and other illegal activites). And before anyone claims it was just Stalin, Lenin privately supported and organized these bank robberies. It was what the Bolsheviks were known for. And they were robbing the Russian state banks for money stolen from the peasantry, so it's not like they were attacking random people, it was a very targeted political act.
The Bolsheviks, and all Russian Communist/Socialist parties combined for that matter, did not have enough members to survive off party dues alone. The current DSA literally has more members than the Bolsheviks + Mensheviks combined before the revolution.
>>2800180I'm not gonna watch that take on the Bolsheviks tbh I don't trust a American social democrat's opinion on violent class struggle when they're raised from birth to be pacifist goycattle, but most of what you say is true.
>It is very tempting to think a day in the life of a Bolshevik was one Red-Dead-Redemption mission after another, and as "epic" as that would be, it wasn't the case.I think it's actually pretty accurate to say the Bolsheviks' activities were more comparable to a gang than a "political party" in the way Americans see them. They engaged in a lot of illegal activities, not just robberies, and were always "in the streets" so to speak engaging in work to advance the interests of the party beyond debating and distributing newspapers. They organized workers riots, engaged in arms smuggling, quite a few assassinations, and were generally very violent and willing to use whatever means to achieve their goals, which is what allowed them to outmaneuver the Mensheviks and other social democrats.
That is all to say, I think discounting violence and robbery as a means of praxis is just idealism. Adventurism should be avoided if it's for its own sake, but if there's no better way or there's an opportunity for it that could reap huge (direct) rewards, by all means we should encourage it.
>>2800186>I'm not gonna watch that take on the Bolsheviks tbh It's just a work Lenin wrote read as an audiobook
>I don't trust a American social democrat's opinion on violent class struggle when they're raised from birth to be pacifist goycattleYou seem proudly ignorant. The channel is Marxist-Leninist, anti-revisionist, and regularly uploads works condemning social democracy. You're operating entirely on vibes and not even reading before responding. I will put less effort into my replies now.
>>2800187Sorry I should've given it more of a chance then, I basically never engage with podcasts/audiobooks because I need visual stimuli. I should be less quick to jump to conclusions.
>>2800190>I need visual stimuli.look at my proletariat dawg
we are never getting communist revolution
>>2800192text is itself visual stimuli tho. it's really hard to just listen to something and not be distracted by whatever's directly in front of your face.
I know some people love podcats because it allows them to multitask but I can never pay attention while I'm focusing on what I'm doing.
>>2800186The work attached in the post was an audiobook of Lenin explaining the role of legal and illegal activity in the party, speaking out against both "otzovists" who thought criminal activity should be primary, as well as against "liquidators" who thought that illegal activity should be abandoned entirely. Lenin spoke out against both these extreme positions in the party, arguing that a diversity of strategy was key to success.
>They engaged in a lot of illegal activities, not just robberies, and were always "in the streets" so to speakthat's what I said in the part of my post which was not quoted.
I am not sure whether you are different anon who has not had the time to read the entire conversation, or if you are the same anon who is changing tone to agree with my position, which was not quoted.
Anon's (your?) original claim was that "bank robberies were their primary means of funding their activities up until the revolution."
My response was that they did a lot of illegal activities, including the occasional bank robbery, but bank robberies were nowhere near "the primary means" of funding "up until the revolution." Bank robberies are high risk, and have a high failure rate, even back then. The most famous instance of a proven bolshevik bank robbery is the Tiflis robbery in 1907. That succeeded, but ultimately didn't matter because they couldn't use the bills. Smaller and more frequent low-risk illegal activities were more common. As the other anon said party dues were their primary funding, but whether there party dues came primarily from the wages of members, or from the illegal activities of members is probably not possible to know, because nobody keeps statistics on their own illegal activities for reasons I should not have to explain.
>>2799533Projection. democrats are reformed slaveowner party. You are anti-Mao. You are fascist
>>2800190>Sorry I should've given it more of a chance then, I basically never engage with podcasts/audiobooks because I need visual stimuli. I should be less quick to jump to conclusions.Thanks for the humility anon. It is quite alright. It is very rare someone apologizes on here, so thank you for that. It's a good work, relatively short, and the description contains the link to the original text if the audiobook is a bit hard to listen to or distracting. Just know Lenin argued against both pure-illegal and pure-legal acitivty. He said a mixture of both was necessary. It is difficult to know the exact ratio of legal-to-illegal activity in the bolsheviks. it changed probably a lot between 1903 when the bolsheviks and mensheviks first split, and 1917 when they were in a brief coalition government after the february revolution, but before the october revolution.
>>2800196Another thing: a lot of the bourgeoisie also funded bolsheviks as a gamble. Parvus is an example, but there are others. And also, there was a tradition from the pre-bolshevik times where the pauperized aristocracy funded revolutionaries like the narodniks, and most certainly up until the 1900s there was a sizeable number of them also funding the bolsheviks.
>>2799533Your deceptions are too sheer. Reformulate what youre trying to say more plainly, comprehensi to the prole mind. Seem to me lile you say socialism is anti amerikan. Like hulk hogan
>>2800209why does hasan look like that kanye west block guy meme
>>2800209i hope this recent media campaign succeeds in destroying hasan pikers career so i can finally stop hearing about him when i want to tune into news about USA politics
>>2800209>If Socialist why first class, HRMMMMMMM?I mean speaking as a working class guy, the few times I'd ride on an airplane they were cramped hell capsules you couldn't even feel an ounce of comfort in. If you've got the means to afford extra leg room I genuinely don't know why any sane person wouldn't.
Like it's fucking stupid. It's not gonna break bank for Hasan if he gets a first class ticket, it would for me (this is prior to the Iran debacle apparently raising the cost of airplane tickets?) so if you can afford it, just take it. Don't take up more space in business for "solidarity".
>>2800220how would it destroy his career? it's just giving him more attention. isn't he under the same management company as asmongold? this is all a psyop and hasan is a faggot grifter using socialism as a gimmick.
>>2800222>I mean speaking as a working class guy, the few times I'd ride on an airplane they were cramped hell capsules you couldn't even feel an ounce of comfort in.It's for privacy and their company usually pays for it anyway. When you're in first class you get to board first and then they lock the cabin so you don't get mobbed/assassinated by the general public in coach.
>>2800222You are a capitalist. You are anti socialist. You are anti maoist. You are imperialist. You hate workers
>>2799533>>2799520 >>2800222>interdickrider solidarityheartwarming
>>2800226>It's for privacy and their company usually pays for it anyway. When you're in first class you get to board first and then they lock the cabin so you don't get mobbed/assassinated by the general public in coach.I'm sure there'll some retard who'll say something like "If you were REALLY for THE PEOPLE then why are you worried about being assassinated?" But the fact is there's always that one type of retard out there who's convinced they'll fuck Billie Eilish or whatever if they manage to shoot you.
>>2800222CPUSAnon, this is very autistic of me and off topic, but I've wanted to say this for a long time: I hate the way you start so many of your posts with "I mean". Idk why. It triggers me. Like sincerity should be the assumed default. I would never assume you
didn't mean something you said unless the sarcasm was glaringly obvious.
>>2800226Incorrect. First class and third class yanks are all the same when plane is hijacked despite your imperialist false consciousnesses
>>2800222>If Socialist why first class, HRMMMMMMM?Engels was a bourgie, sooooooo
communism isn't about ascetics.
>>2800232No worries man, I realize I've got a weird way of talking. As silly as this sounds, when I was a kid I'd get accused of lying if I forgot something or was imprecise with my words (once had my dad claim I was saying I shoved someone when I started a conversation with "Guess who I ran into today?") so I tend to overcompensate with a lot of qualifiers and hedges when I talk.
Sorry if it's annoying you.
>>2800230>I'm sure there'll some retard who'll say something like "If you were REALLY for THE PEOPLE then why are you worried about being assassinated?" But the fact is there's always that one type of retard out there who's convinced they'll fuck Billie Eilish or whatever if they manage to shoot you.What did he mean by this
>>2800237no one will know you're in first class when they hijack the plane unless they're specifically targeting you. they lock the doors of every cabin when the plane is about to take off so they can minimize the casualties of hijackings to just the poor people caught in the crossfire when US marshalls blast the hijackers. also we haven't had a plane hijacking in like 20 years in the US, it's not even relevant to the conversation lol.
what a retarded discussion
>>2800246I mean we started talking about forbidden topics like the inner workings of a communist party and had to talk about more appropriate topics like bourgeois talking heads.
>>2800246exactly. I thought we all already hated Hasan? the criticism Laura loomer is giving out is what we've been saying for years. the uygha's an irl Brian Griffin, wasting time critically analyzing some bs libtard twitter drama between internet personalities is fucking crazy. this is why we'll never have the revolution
>>2800244Was making a joke about Hinckley trying to kill Reagan because he thought Jodie Foster would fuck him if he did.
>>2800253who the fuck is "we"? uygha shut up. go away.
>>2799693>>2799905Everyone should be made to take a course on what machine learning is before using the term "AI"
>>2800259oof. this uygha still cant accept his generation's only popular "radical socialist" movement are demsoc idpol middle class treatler-tards who only started complaining about capitalism when their own lives started getting screwed over slightly, and will only go as far as to attend government overseen protests. its over anon, js accept the doom pill
>>2800257>Hinckley was released from institutional psychiatric care on September 10, 2016, with many conditions—including that he was required to live full-time at his mother's home in Williamsburg, Virginia, to work at least three days a week and record his browser history.[71] He was also prohibited from a variety of activities, including contacting the Reagan, Brady, or Foster families; watching or listening to violent media; accessing pornography; and speaking to the pressthey won't even let the old man goon
>>2800253> we'll never have the revolutiona false premise that does not follow logically or evidently from the rest of your post
>>2800269Celebrity culture is a distraction and every distraction keeps revolution at bay. Part of the reason less developed countries have revolution is because all classes have fewer distractions and coping mechanisms, and thus are less pacified and fooled.
>>2800269>a false premise that does not follow logically or evidently from the rest of your postI was only replying to another comment that was calling it the stupidity of this Convo. it was just meant to serve as an ironic over the top joke comment, didn't really realize mfs would start dialectically analyzing it now
>>2800267One of the funniest (purely hypothetical) scenarios I imagined is that, if Trump does end up assassinated, it’s Chris Chan that does it. I think that’d just be the funniest event in American history. Just the perfect capstone to this absurd period of American life.
>>2800271distractions are circuses, and circuses only work as long as there is bread to go with them. take away the bread, and the circuses stop being a distraction from society's deteriorating condition and instead become a mockery of the miserable whose condition has already deteriorated beyond what is sustainable. My goal here is not to defend the culture of celebrities and distractions, but to merely remind you that people, against all better judgement, will on average continue to be distracted by such nonsense until a time comes when they can ignore misery no longer.
>>2800274Chris Chan would be trying to impress Sonichu, rather than a real person like Jodie Foster lmfao
>>2800276It'll bring about the Dimensional Merge.
>>2800263>puriteen burger leftists cannot take a single W because it didnt come from morally pure perfect victimsFucking learn to work with what you have instead of being a bunch of internet misanthropes. YOU are why you keep losing because you keep waiting for people to be saints.
>>2800275If that were true people wouldn’t drink and drug themselves to death but they do, circuses are more powerful than bread
>>2800274if Chris-Chan assassinates Trump they'll air the entire 100 part Chris-Chan documentary on CNN nonstop for months and you'll have your grandparents asking you what a Sonichu is.
>>2800278>>2800278"the ruthless criticism of all that exists" often butts heads with "the real movement to abolish the present state of things," despite both phrases originating in the mind of Marx. This is why Lenin fought against both Otzovism and Liquidationism. You have to do illegal activity and labor militancy while also accepting your "wins" however fleeting and flawed they are, within the realm of actually existing legal bourgeois politics.
>>2800276>>2800277>>2800283If Trump is enough of a baby to go after people saying "86 47" he could think Chris Chan is legitimately threatening to kill him.
I know Fox tried to stitch Chris Chan up as a "prominent transgender activist" after the incident with his mom.
>>2800282>circuses are more powerful than breadyou repeat your original thesis in a new form but my thesis already contains your thesis but with added nuance: Circuses are more powerful than bread
until bread runs out. And it will run out because circuses are expensive, and America has deprioritized its own capacity for production in the name of financialization.
>>2799616>>2799615He’s got to know what that sounds like
>>2800297in certain lat am countries yeah there have been. but only because these govts are low on resources they do not have the abilities to deal with the massive amounts of blow that circulates thru their countries.
>>2800301
>trump signed off on medical psychedelics
Based?
>>2800301
> Casual cocaine use is around already if you work blue collar.
I have worked with blue collar and white collar cokeheads and they are usually unpleasant class traitors. Note my careful language, to those readers who may be exceptions to this rule: I do not tend to say "Always" or "Never" when I am being careful in my formulation of an analysis. Coke users often use coke to work faster and harder, as a performance enhancement drug, so that others are held to the same unsustainable standard as they. A man on cocaine might break a strike so he can continue to afford coke, and he tends to reject slowdowns, because it is not in his nature to slow down, even in solidarity with others. And he might agree to the lengthening of the working day even when his coworkers find such terms disagreeable.
>>2800301
As for psychedelics… they are harmless compared to depressants and stimulants, especially opioids, alcohol, cocaine, etc.
>>2800304
we need psychedelics for veterans of the class struggle. no more tears, only historical necessity now
>>2800301
Yeah a ton of my coworkers either currently do coke or have done it in the past, no big shock there.
>>2800301Bullshit. You speak addlepated lumpen conspiracies. people war against narcotic is imperative for socialism. imperialist drug lord planter bourgeoisie are modern day slaver owners. Tobacco alcohol industries invest billions in narcotic cannabis. Alcohol industries invest in illicit narcotic cannabis infusions. Communist Party of China consider legalization of narcotics as crime against humanity. See section 3
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Report_on_Human_Rights_Violations_in_the_United_States_in_2023>>2799513And then we shall see the synthesis; chudcommaxxing.
>>2800301https://www.tobaccotactics.org/article/cannabis/Narcotic cannabis legalism is imperialist tobacco. Trump legalized narcotic cannabis last term. Narcotic cannabis and psychedelic legalism is MAGA. MAGA narcotic legalism must be combated to defeat MAGA.
>>2799570>union maidmaking horny Loony Tunes wolf noises right now
imagine the grip strength
>>2800248>>2800253E-celeb drama is like digital heroin.
>>2800331Actually it was Bill Clinton era that started medicinal narcotics which eventually led to recreational narcotics. In the 90's the Clinton administration used the research done by Israeli universities on the effects of marijuana as medicine. Those research papers were used in a California election to pass medicinal marijuana laws. Immediately after a bunch of states added it. Later on, Colorado became the first state to have recreational narcotics. All of this was due to the success of medical marijuana laws.
>>2800319>>2800331>narcotic <Narcotics are potent, highly addictive pain-relieving drugs—primarily opioids like fentanyl, heroin, and oxycodoneCannabis is addictive and semi-harmful but it doesn't really relieve pain. Its not the opiates of the masses because rather than subsuming your will to pure liberal ideology and going on a "soma holiday" like in Brave New World, it inspires alternative modes of consciousness and allow for critiques of ideology:
<Walter Benjamin’s experiments with hashish, conducted between 1927 and 1934, were central to his philosophical pursuit of what he called "profane illumination". <Unlike religious or mystical revelations, Benjamin sought a materialistic, anthropological "awakening" to the ordinary world, where the boundaries between the habitual and the extraordinary dissolve.>Key Concepts and Works<On Hashish: This posthumously published collection compiles "protocols" (detailed logs) of his drug experiments. Benjamin originally planned to write a major book on hashish, but it remained unfinished at his death.<"Hashish in Marseille": One of his most famous prose pieces, it describes a solitary experiment in 1928 where he wandered the city’s streets. He recorded how the urban landscape became "estranged," with once-familiar places taking on new, resonant contours.<The Aura: Benjamin’s drug use informed his concept of the "aura"—the unique presence of an object. Under the influence, he felt objects were "invested with the ability to look at us in return".>The Experience of the "High"<Benjamin’s notes describe the hashish trance with a mix of poetic observation and clinical detachment:<Altered Perception: He noted how space and time become inseparable and "stratified". In one famous line, he wrote, "Your thinking follows the same paths as usual, but they seem strewn with roses".<Social & Physical Effects: His protocols often mention fits of uncontrollable laughter, a "leonine hunger," and a "royal" distortion of time where minutes feel like hours.<Solitude vs. Company: Many of his experiments were supervised by doctors Ernst Joël and Fritz Fränkel in Berlin. He often grappled with a "horrific simultaneity" of needing to be alone while also desiring the presence of others as "relief characters">Philosophical Legacy<Benjamin did not view hashish as mere escapism. Instead, he saw it as a tool to penetrate the "mystery of the quotidian". By breaking the "perceptual chains of bourgeois culture," he believed such altered states could serve as a prerequisite for revolutionary political and social change."Hashish is a prerequisite for revolution" - Laura Les from 100 gecs
>>2800343After 90's zionist "medicinal" narcotic experimentation, widespread MAGA recreational narcotic legalism began with 2018 farm bill. First state to legalize narcotic cannabis was vermont in 2018. Now most states allow recreational narcotic cannabis. Once tens a decade ago, now hundreds of millions abuse narcotic cannabis thanks to MAGA narcotic legalism.
>>2800379there's probably a reasonable argument to be made that the government is only pushing medical and recreational weed now that the industry has been fully consumed by investment bankers and hedge funds and taken away from the streets where it was locally accessible to the banks and international firms that turned weed into yet another form of economic alienation funneling money out of local communities.
my local family friendly small business drug dealers have been suffering ever since the VC-funded dispensaries moved in bro.
>>2799307Brazil just like the Confederates that fled there.
>>2799137isn't this literally just the plot of Fahrenheit 451
https://cpusa.org/party_info/cpusa-constitution/>ARTICLE VIII SECTION 2. Comrades should assist each other to overcome weaknesses and shortcomings as much as possible and prior to taking any actions. Subject to the provisions of this Article, any member of the Party may forfeit their membership in the Party for actions detrimental to the interests of the Party and the working class, for violating provisions of this Constitution, for making false statements in an application for membership, for financial irregularities, or for advocacy or practice of racial, national or religious discrimination or discrimination on the basis of disability, gender expression, or sexual orientation. No proceeding seeking the forfeiture of membership shall be undertaken without written notification to the member of the action and the basis for it. Subject to the provision of this Article, a member who is a strikebreaker or a provocateur, who engages in espionage or advocates violence or terrorism, or participates in the activities of any group that acts to undermine any democratic institution through which the majority of the American people can express their democratic rights, forfeits membership in the Communist Party.Communist never criticize democrat party
>>2800408It’s Fahrenheit 451 but detailed by some kind of shitlib
>>2800659
True. It’s It’s Fahrenheit 451, but detailed by a different shitlib
>>2800642
>If they’re not willing to give up on the American constitution at this point
They are.
>which many liberals are at
They are not.
>>2800263>who only started complaining about capitalism when their own lives started getting screwed over slightlyWow its almost like people's politics are shaped by their interests and conditions.
Anyone interested in learning more about Mr. Wilimos campaign platform?
>>2800659
wasn't he just some generic right-winger?
>>2800285we don't live in the early 20th century, we're dealing with a whole different condition now
>>2800717thanks for the input Bernstein
>>2800723whether you like it or not, we're effectively back at the beginning, there's no strong workers movement anymore, there's nothing resembling a worker's party in the historical sense, there's few people genuinely attempting to build a working international to even get this done, most communists and socialists are too busy pretending it's 1905, the other are too busy defending states like china rather than attempting to do something, we have to build something that actually makes sense in this time we live in, not simply because men and women 100 years ago said so
>>2800715Same thing really
>>2800705Why don't you tell us?
>>2800726revisionists will be boiled
>>2800726the more time passes the more I start to feel like an anarchist in my desire to burn shit down and crash out against the bourgeois while marxists just tell me to organize my workplace(i am unemployed!!) so I might as well change my voter registration card from communist to anarchist. at least they have more fun.
>>2800385yeah but that's a critique of capitalism in general not zionism specifically
>>2799032I loved the movie Tim. He was hot in that one
>>2800223>isn't he under the same management company as asmongold? aren't you still beating your wife? isn't my dick 10 feet long? doesn't the sky rain money on tuesdays at 10pm? provide evidence for your claims rather than asking rhetorical questions and expecting others to do the work. i am not saying you are wrong, it could be true, I just hate it when people say shit with no proof and pretend it's a question.
>>2800764define revisionism in a non-revisionist way. you have 5 seconds on the clock
>>2800811ok bro really? he doesn't need to be under the same management company as asmongold to still be considered a piece of shit. the fact that he's even signed to a management company shows how he's more of a media personality than anything else. he pulls up to libshit protests wearing thousand dollar outfits. he may have once held some egalitarian views but by now socialism is just a brand tool for that retard
>>2800829Do you have proof that hes signed to any management company? You went from hes signed with the same company as assmadghoul to just accusing him of being signed.
>>2800811sorry I was just being lazy and thought other people who care more about hasan would know if it's true or false but I guess no one cares about him enough to verify it.
https://gist.github.com/imthefounder/d6ba630697416a029eaf77f9b80ae432it took a bit of googling because they deliberately hide their talent roster so people have to resort to methods like this to see it. since it would be bad for their brand if people found out hasan works for the same company as asmongold.
so yes, he is in fact under the same company as asmongold.
>>2800835they do advertise him as the main attraction on their "talent" page
https://www.night.co/talentalso god I fucking hate these kind of corporate branding websites
>>2800835>You went from hes signed with the same company as assmadghoul to just accusing him of being signed.I'm not the first guy you replied to so it actually wasn't me who said he was signed to the same company. but I did look it up before I made my response and yea he is signed to a management company, just not the one asmongold is signed to. but even if he wasn't signed to one why would you not view him unfavorably? are all the other cringe aspects of his persona not enough to put that mf thru the dirt?
>>2800838>>2800838oop never mind, guess he is signed to the same one. I guess I didnt dig deeper the first time round. it says that asmongold and Hasan are both under the management of
Night Media which also manages kai cenat and owns Theo von's podcast company
>>2800829>he doesn't need to be under the same management company as asmongold to still be considered a piece of shit.Did I say anything to the contrary? So many of you on here lack critical thinking skills. You get so offended you think that when someone asks for evidence they are arguing with you rather than doing the basic legwork of making sure they don't look like a dumbass if they repeat your claim somewhere else.
Assmoldold
>>2800860holy shit, holden bloodfeast (D) real????
>>2800209I don't know if you've ever seen first class seats, but those are definitely not them
>>2800887Actually Existing Rootless Cosmopolitanism
>>2800887the contradictions are the point
also indian-americans are class traitors
republicans are an affront to god. i will never support a republicuck over a democrap
>>2800887Destinys son is a groyper
>>2800892i thought destiny was a virgin cuck, do you mean his wife's son?
>>2800894He has a son with a previous woman. His name is nathan
bro cant even beat a bunch of liberals with whistles in minny and now he wants to beat the iranian civilization? yeah good luck cucks.
>>2800887The U.S. right is a rainbow coalition for the pedophile class
>>2800808Another success for the DNCPUSA's strategy of "Vote Blue no matter Who"
>>2800887There's something viscerally funny about all the effort the left put in to trying to appeal to minorities only for the right to look into a rainbow coalition.
>>2800741A hoxhaist from North Carolina.
>>2800959I constantly hear people say nationalism divides the working class and proletarian internationalism unites it, but I see way more unity from nationalists than internationalists tbh.
>>2800889how are they class traitors ?
>>2800961yeah but it's bourgeois unity to crush the workers, not proletarian unity to crush the owners. Of course there is bourgeois unity on the question of nationalism. All the bourgeois nationalists will meet with one another at international conferences to conspire against the workers. bourgeois nationalism is the building block of bourgeois internationalism. Similarly, proletarian nationalism is the building block of proletarian internationalism. This is why socialism in one country happened, not because socialism was supposed to be contained to one country, but because it takes hold one country at a time, and in the absence of proletarian internationalism, proletarian nationalism becomes a fortress against bourgeois internationalist siege.
>>2800965Socialist internationalism is just the weirdest part of socialism to me. It’s not like there was a “liberal international” that was needed to defeat the monarchies of Europe. And tbh all it seems to do out here is destroy domestic unity for workers in the name of this international unity that doesn’t seem to do anything
>>2800974> It’s not like there was a “liberal international” that was needed to defeat the monarchies of Europe. go look up what the 1848 revolutions were
>>2800974>domestic unity for workers in the name of this international unity that doesn’t seem to do anythingwhen unity of workers is purely domestic, workers become pawns of the national bourgeoisie, and imperialism. For example, the ILWA went on strike, but made an exception for goods related to "national security." i.e. weapons bound for Israel. Make sense now?
>>2800981>Make sense now?Not really.
Fuck Israel and all, but do you have an example of internationalism helping domestic workers?
>>2800974The divided get conquered, and the united conquer. The bourgeoisie are already united internationally, while the proletariat remain addicted to a purely national class struggle, and errors like social patriotism, which make it easy for the internationally united bourgeoisie to conspire against each purely national class struggle.
The split in the Second International during World War I showed a deep betrayal of working-class unity. Many socialist parties chose “social patriotism” by supporting their own governments in the imperialist war, but communists argued this abandoned the principle of international solidarity. Lenin supported “revolutionary defeatism,” urging workers to resist their own states and transform the imperialist war into a shared struggle against ruling classes. From this view, proletarian internationalism was essential, meaning workers across all countries should unite and act together, rather than limiting their efforts to purely domestic class struggles.
>>2800961>nationalism divides the working class That's fucking crazy. Any competent socialist country is incredibly nationalist. Just not in a fascistic sense
>>2800985a revolutionary example would be the 1st international coordinating international strikes in the 19th century. It's harder for capitalists to outsource jobs during a strike if you have strikes in multiple countries.
a non revolutionary example would be the International Labour Organization coordinating after the Rana Plaza Collapse which killed 1100 workers to pass better safety laws in Bangladesh
>>2800988people misunderstand inter-nationalism to be anti-nationalism. but inter means "between" not "against"
people also fail to distinguish between bourgeois internationalism and proletarian internationalism. you see reactionaries call everything international "globalist" without bothering to analyze the class character of organizations and movements.
>>2800985the best should be empowering local proletariat while teaching them the horrors of imperialism and learning that we must end it if we truly wish to liberate all humanity. I mean, the proles at the imperial core who live relatively good lives compared to exploited third worlders are not gonna voluntarily give up all their privilege just to save third worlders (even though the struggle against imperialism is 1000x worse than whatever domestic exploitation first world proles face). humans are kind of selfish unfortunately, but if you empower them first, while tying the liberation of the third world to their own, it might work. imperialism is the highest form of capitalism after all. if you can teach the proles about their own suffering, you can lead them to start fighting or standing against the capitalist exploitation of other countries, but this can only happen if we relentlessly push for the education of such topics thru our propaganda campaigns or whatever means we have.
it might be hard, but it certainly is possible. remember a few months back when Italian port workers (union members and co-ops) tried shutting down major ports in an attempt to stop arms shipments too israel?
>>2800987I get the unity stuff but it just seems hypothetical. Lurking on this board the only impression I get from internationalist anti imperialist types is I’ve got to be shamed all the time cause of the country I was born in.
Thats my point with the nationalism thing. I saw lots of people on the left talking about patriarchy and privilege but I don’t see how that made the working class do anything but hate each other. Then the right just goes “fuck foreigners” and suddenly a bunch of people who they’d call foreigners join up.
>>2800992>I get the unity stuff but it just seems hypotheticalI provided several historical examples already. Mind telling me what you thought as you read through each of them? These examples were the opposite of hypothetical. A more recent example given by another anon is unions in Italy coordinating to block weapons shipments to Israel. My example of the ILWA failing to do so is an example of a failure to do proletarian internationalism. While the italian example is a successful example.
>>2800992>Then the right just goes “fuck foreigners” and suddenly a bunch of people who they’d call foreigners join up.because they are either bourgeoisie relishing in the opportunity to stoke hatred between proles of different nations, or they are engaging in "pick me" behavior hoping that if they join the reactionary movement against foreigners, they will be spared from the worst of it. immigrants who showed up first can be made to resent immigrants who showed up second. this is as true today when you have 3rd generation Mexican immigrants complaining about 1st generation Guatemalan immigrants, as it was 300 years ago when you had ben franklin complaining about the "swarthy germans' arriving in Philadelphia.
>>2800992>Thats my point with the nationalism thing. I saw lots of people on the left talking about patriarchy and privilege but I don’t see how that made the working class do anything but hate each otherYou were suggesting proletarian international doesn't work, now you are complaining about the identity politics of the interclass liberal movement, which is not the same question as the international class struggle.
>>2800997its also a whole lot easier to just blame everything on unnatural population growth (ie, immigration) than look deeper into systemic factors regarding ANYTHING. crime, poverty, degradation of culture, scarcity of resources? just blame em all on immigrants. that's why there so many right wing anti immigrant movements in the west are also super populist, its because their support base largely comes from the domestic lower class who think their issues can just be solved if immigrants weren't coming, especially when so many immigrant groups (like indians, Hispanics) are taking opportunities of social mobility that they believe belong to them.
>>2800999not to mention imperialism and climate change and capital's hunger for cheap labor all drive the crisis of migration, which is blamed on the immigrants rather than the ruling class. so even ignoring the stuff like crime, poverty, etc. and looking at why they are coming in the first place, you see imperialism being a factor. and that is even the case for more highly paid immigrants like indian programmers and physicians, because they got that education more cheaply in their home country, and ask for cheaper salaries once here. so even they are fleeing "imperialism" in the sense of wages and salaries being higher in the imperial core, both due to the older development of capital in the imperial core, but also due to things like currency hegemony.
>>2801004exactly, no one would like to address the root cause of anything. the white supremacists don't realize that anti imperialism could be in their favor, as it would get rid of the reason immigrants even have to come to their countries, but they're too dumb to truly comprehend that,
>>2800992>I saw lots of people on the left talking about patriarchy and privilege but I don’t see how that made the working class do anything but hate each other.that's what libs have done with their idpol, and that's exactly why leftists are so against it, because it can be so divisive. leftists–true leftists, not idpol libs–are in favor of all the lib talking points, like gay rights, women's issues, racism, the only difference is the presence of intersectionality within the left sphere when mentioning these issues. we tie them all together behind the singular banner of class struggle. we look at these issues and tie them all to the same superstructure, the giant blanket of oppression that enforces all the evil. instead of blaming working class men for oppressing women, we blame old cultural institutions. instead of blaming immigrants we blame imperialism.
>>2800995I mean the takeaway I get from the second international and all those examples of socialist internationalism collapsing is just that internationalism is kind of flimsy and falls apart.
I’m not trying to be a dick, but you ever see those videos where martial artists go up against boxers and get knocked out? That’s kind of what examples of internationalism failing looks like to me. Thats what keeps confusing me and I’m hoping this board has an answer: I’m a practical guy, i try to think of whether stuff works or not. It feels like I’m looking at a black belt getting his teeth knocked out and everyone is just saying he should have worked on his chi more, not that boxing > karate
>>2801007>the takeaway I get from the second international and all those examples of socialist internationalism collapsing is just that internationalism is kind of flimsy and falls apart.the takeaway is that when you fail to do it, it falls apart. saying "proletarian internationalism doesn't work because when we abandon it as a strategy, proles kill each other in imperialist wars on behalf of the bourgeoisie" is like saying "shitting doesn't work because when I don't shit I get constipated"
the lesson here is to shit so you don't get constipate
the bourgeoisie know internationalism works because they use it regularly to crush the workers, and they know internationalism works because they do everything they can to prevent the workers' movement from having any kind of international solidarity. british intelligence literally paid ᴉuᴉlossnW because they knew his fascist nationalism was more useful for the purposes of WW1 than proletarian internationalism. the bourgeoisie want you to die for them, not fight them. also please analyze this post
>>2800993 since you keep conflating bourgeois nationalism and internationalism with proletarian nationalism and internationalism. everything has a class character to it. proletarian nationalism serves proletarian internationalism. bourgeois nationalism serves bourgeois internationalism.
If you are still skeptical about proletarian internationalism simply ask yourself why you would limit class struggle to an arbitrary locality. if workers can coordinate practice between towns, cities, states, and regions, then they can coordinate practice between countries.
this anon is putting a suspicious amount of effort into not understanding, and not reading the posts he is replying to
>>2801007>Thats what keeps confusing me and I’m hoping this board has an answer: I’m a practical guy, i try to think of whether stuff works or not. imo, the same reason socialist internationalism fails is the same reason national Unitarian movements fail: infighting over dogmas, ideologies, strategies, etc. and absence of organization/failure to to do so properly.
if we can overcome these challenges within our own national movements we can apply those means to overcome the international unity challenges
>>2801013>Unitarianjs letting y'all know by that word I meant something like 'unitary' or uniting or some kind of united front. not referencing any religious doctrines
another note about the overlap between internationalism vs. nationalism that seems to confuse some people here: both nationalists and internationalists claim to be against zionist genocide. is being against zionism nationalist because "america first!!!" or is it internationalist because "I refuse to slaughter the arab workers on behalf of the bourgeoisie!" ???
Clearly it's both. being against your nation being dominated by a foreign lobby and being against your government slaughtering foreign workers is both nationalist and internationalist.
>>2801031i wish they fuckin would
>>2801031>they'll be doing this to memf is scared as hell, he knows what's coming this November. this is actually the funniest shit ever the guy gets backed into a corner, and the strongman image disappears and now he's just a baby pissing his pants and crying out for whatever help or mercy he can get.
>>2801010Okay so now I understand how you see it, thank you. The way I see it is just different at the root; I don’t see it as the socialist movement “giving up” internationalism, I see it as internationalism failing to get people going.
Let me do another example: if you had to do a race and get to choose between competing in a sports car and competing on foot, wouldn’t you know instantly that the sports car is better? there are a lot of people on here that treat internationalism like it’s de facto better, but if that’s true why do we see people get cold feet on it again and again?
It confuses me cause wasn’t the Soviet Union internationalist? You got the argument that nationalism is just supported by the state while internationalism isn’t. But even after a whole generation was raised on internationalist ideas in the USSR, nationalism didn’t just die out, if anything it won even when internationalism was the hegemonic ideology. I know you might think of that as socialists giving up internationalism again, but I see it as, I guess, kind of natural? Sort of like how people treat close family different from strangers?
>>2800993I get what you’re saying but like it isn’t the reality as I see it right now, at least not in America. It seems like even the tamest kind of patriotism gets treated with anxiety, yknow, like you’re about to be a goose stepping Nazi.
It’s embarrassing but I checked Reddit before posting here, and you see a lot of people asking socialists “why can’t we be patriotic?” Specifically about America. The top comments were stuff like “well maybe you can be proud of niche figures like John Brown or Frederick Douglass but they aren’t that big here and the whole country was founded by slave owners and built on genocide so you can’t be proud of it”
So it seems to me there’s no variation of socialism out here where you aren’t just expected by default to be ashamed of being born here
>>2801033Bro's gonna start posting weird BDSM shit on his timeline and going "the democrats are going to do this to me if they win"
>>2801037the way he uses ai, who knows what's stopping him
>>2801033>mf is scared as hell, he knows what's coming this November.oh no…not the elections…Drumpf is finished this time…!
>>2801042>oh no…not the elections…Drumpf is finished this time…!ok bro you didn't have to ridicule me like that. obviously no real change is gonna happen, but I'm just talking from his perspective, he knows he'll be impeached, that all
>>2800974>It’s not like there was a “liberal international” that was needed to defeat the monarchies of Europe.It's important to remember that the United States of America was not originally a single country. It was a collection of 13 separate countries. The 13 colonies that were participating in the rebellion had each been separate from each other, distinct colonies with ties between themselves and Britain, but not really ties amongst themselves, between the different colonies. So when the 13 colonies declared their independence, they did so not as a single unified country but as 13 separate countries in association with each other, what we would today call an international organization, in order to accomplish their common goal of freeing themselves from British rule. So that was bourgeois internationalism in solidarity against the British empire.
But conversely, in the English civil war we saw a sort of nationalist parliamentarianism in Cromwell's proto-bourgeois forces: The roundheads. It was King Charles I who was beheaded for treason, on the grounds that he conspired with catholics to crush the roundheads. Later Charles the II was restored to the throne, and England went back to being a monarchy, but it was never again the same kind of nation it was before Cromwell.
Now let's look at France: France's bourgeois revolution was nationalist, and, the French king was also accused of being insufficiently nationalist, of trying to flee the nation to conspire with the monarchs of Europe to crush the Jacobins, Sans Culottes, Girdondins, etc., but the French revolution was also internationalist, because after the French Revolution, revolutionary leaders actively tried to spread their ideals abroad.
They did this mainly through wars. French armies invaded neighboring regions, like the Austrian Netherlands, parts of Italy, and the Rhineland, overthrowing monarchies and setting up “sister republics” based on revolutionary principles such as republicanism and legal equality.
So it wasn’t just ideological they used military force to export the revolution.
The Bolsheviks wanted to do the same with the proletarian revolution, but the conditions were not right after WW1 and the Russian civil war, so they settled on the strategy of "Socialism In One Country" which was not intended to be purely nationalist, or against internationalism, but was merely intended to defend the gains made by the revolution from the siege of the international bourgeoisie, and later the anti-comintern pact. Eventually the soviets supported other Communist parties and proletarian revolutions, in China, in Vietnam, in North Korea, in Cuba.
So revolutions whether bourgeois or proletarian have a long history of framing themselves both as nationalist, against a ruling class that has betrayed the nation, and as internationalist, in favor of spreading the revolution and its principles abroad.
>>2800701No theyre not. Cpusa literally spend a century defending bourgeois state. They make criticism of democrat party (reformed slavery party) bannable offense. They have many publications where they idealize reforming the yank government as it is peacefully. So you are totally wrong. They encourage their members to report revolutionaries to the FBI. They deny material law of violent proletarian revolution within party constitution. Their members use term "maoist" as racial slur all in effort to support reformed slavery party and kill socialism. Their member say socialism is unamerikan like hulk hogan.
https://www.cpusa.org/article/bill-of-rights-socialism-and-the-future-of-the-republic/Real Communists, like Mao CPC, explain all this. Only the most delusional baby blood drinking zioliberals can possibly disagree.
https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/sino-soviet-split/cpc/prolrev.htm >>2801036Look I'm not an "AmeriKKKan babies must be curbstomped" guy but American "patriotism" is stuck on a spectrum ranging from tepid liberalism worshipping Norms and Progress and bog standard open chauvinism.
Now you might reasonably point to the Russian and Chinese examples, but I think the difference lies in America being the world hegemon since the of WWII.
With the former two you had the communists able to make the case that their national bourgeoisie were a den of thieves in league with High Capital.
What does a claim like that look when so many of the instruments of world capital management are in fact based in or influenced by America?
>>2801051if you have a proletarian revolution in a country, you have to defend that revolution from international sabotage by the bourgeoisie, while also spreading the revolution. To achieve the first goal, you need proletarian nationalism. To achieve the second goal, you need proletarian internationalism. The proletariat cannot be nationalist in a nation where the bourgeoisie still hold state power. The proletariat will be nationalist in a nation where the proletariat has seized power, especially in defense of their revolution.
>>2801046>he knows he'll be impeached, that alla lotta good that did before. it didn't affect him in any way…why would he be scared?
>>2801037Didn't Jordan Peterson do something like that?
>>2801051keep my uygha mao out of this
>>2801053>What does a claim like that look when so many of the instruments of world capital management are in fact based in or influenced by America?Personally I go for “our country’s run by a handful of corporations that don’t give a fuck about us. They’re eating us from the inside, then when we’re dead they’re going to fuck off to some private island so they don’t have to smell us poors rotting in the streets.”
It’s about giving people a sense of alienation from the ruling class. Like I don’t think most Americans consciously think of the empire as being to their particular benefit, or that of their neighbors.
Look at how popular conspiracies are in the U.S. treating the ruling class as something alien to them: Satanists, lizard people, so on. America might rule the world, but the American people feel they’re ruled by something Alien. So turn the ruling class into an alien entity. Point out how they travel the world, have property all over it. They’ve got no desire to improve any of the country when they can just move wherever.
>>2801057is that when he re-posted the ai image of a penis pump farm in china but believed it was real
>>2801060That reminds me, my kind of chudlib coworker got one of the old guys at work caught in a funny gotcha. They were talking about the Artemis mission returning when the old guy suddenly said he didn't believe they actually did that or the original moon missions. Coworker then said something to the effect of you "You think that the US is the best country in the world but that there was not nor is the technological capacity to make it to the moon? You think that the Soviet Union or China wouldn't have told everybody if the moon missions were faked?"
Old guy then just ended it with "oh the US, USSR, China etc were all just in league run by the banks anyway."
I think there's a limit to how effective tapping into the "alien" nature of the ruling class. Might be better to go with Capital being the alien force with the ruling class enacting a general idea of its proclivities based on their own whims.
>>2801071Very much so. Just realized the pic needs ᴉuᴉlossnW as well
>>2801073You wouldn’t get it
>>2801059meme kids don't read. they just find two words to greentext and then post a picture representing what they imagine you said
>>2801067Funny enough I had an experience with a conservative coworker (Gen X, Republican) who said essentially “Why are we giving money to Israel? We need it here and it’s not like they can’t protect themselves.”
What’s funny is I also heard some bizarre pseudo liberal argument recently that “ACKTUALLY” if you care about the Palestinians you should support sending aid and weapons to Israel because it means the U.S. can keep it restrained with the threat of taking aid away and if we stop trading with Israel or giving it aid it’ll just get all that from China and Russia and they won’t care if Israel genocides every Palestinian
honkoid status?
>>2801074No it is obvious what you are
hmmmm idk
>>2801123aww hell nah this pigga name gravy chud 💀💀💀
>>2801101
>Dont say the Jews got us into this war
>If you blame Israel you’re saying ALL Jews
>Well yes I’m personally advocating for the war and Israel has for years
>But you can’t say we caused it
>Saying we aren’t winning is giving comfort to the enemy
>Why is Iran the enemy?
>Because we say they are
>But you can’t say we’re the cause of this war
>>2801139I don’t really consider myself informed by feminist theory, but I suspect as it becomes more evident how powerless we are, people become more desperate to show some performative masculinity.
Thats basically Hegseth’s MO at least.
>>2801141As autistics we are immune to this particular type of propaganda
>>2801141Oh it is, no doubt about that. But this is a pathetic bunch of people we’re talking about
>>2801140as things get bleaker people tend to cling to more superficial displays of authority because of like the ironic appeal of being openly retarded makes people simultaneously view you as more relatable(just as retarded as they are) and also less threatening(because you're retarded).
people don't like the feeling they're being manipulated so they ironically end up more easily manipulated by someone who seems just as dumb as they are. it's why conmen often play the part of an idiot to make people let their guard down.
i've been saying this
>>2801162that sure is a video.
anyway, no he didn't.
>>2801163that sure is a non-argument
the video cites the sources
stop pretending a 30 minute documentary that cites sources is the same thing as a 1 minute tik tok
you have no sources for your contrary claim
>>2801165not watching that.
you failed to post a source. you're making shit up. lenin never said that ever in any of his writing. he never defined such terms.
>>2801162ive been getting this guy's videos a lot lately. nice to see new ML youtubers pop up now that breadtube is dead.
>>2801166>i won't look at your source so I'll pretend you didn't give one>i will only believe you if you open every single PDF of lenin in existence and ctrl+f through themman you are a pathetic ragebaiter
>>2801157so are you mad because you secretly agree with either commandism or tailism? if not, and you find them both to be errors, what's the big deal?
>>2801169not a proper source.
moving the goalposts.
you are a braindead illiterate moron who will eat any old shit served to him by a youtuber.
>>2801171is your objection that lenin never used the words "commandism" and "tailism" , or that he never spoke out against the actual phenomena in question? because I think speaking out against the actual opportunist phenomena in question is sufficient proof regardless of the terms themselves.
>>2801171>not a proper source.the video quotes proper sources and you refuse to look so you are just being ignorant on purpose
>>2801173burden is on you to do that and post them here, not me. I won't take your word for it. but of course your lazy illiterate uneducated ass can't be bothered to do even that.
>>2801155>masses have to be pushed into consciousness by radical action"we love Greta, she's so cute" (ghost of Lenin seething)
>>2801174so true dude. I'm illiterate. that's why you're posting words at me.
anyway answer the question:
>>2801170is my goal to find actual instances of the words "commandism" and "tailism" in lenin's body of work, or is my goal simply to show lenin speaking out against the various forms of opportunism. Because if your objection is simply that he never used the words themselves even though he spoke out against the phenomena that the words themselves encapsulate, then your objection is purely semantic .
>>2801155I feel like every state of existence has been turned into an ism by leftists so they can complain about it.
>>2801082If it’s so obvious, then say it.
>>2801180it's called the ruthless criticism of all that exists
>>2801179prove that he spoke about those tendencies as such. that he defined them as such. in what context did he speak about them if he did? given that does it make sense to talk about identifying those in a fucking anonymous internet image board.
>>2801136>Jews got us into this war <Britain viewed Zionism and control of the Suez Canal as interconnected strategic interests, aiming to use a friendly Jewish presence in Palestine to secure the vital maritime route. This imperial policy culminated in the 1917 Balfour Declaration and, decades later, saw Britain conspire with Israel in 1956 to regain control of the nationalized Suez Canal during the Suez Crisis. some things never change!
>Why is Iran the enemy? <"Of course I will never defend the Iranian regime! We must open up the Strait of Hormuz so my DSA technocrat friends can use AI to become homeowners" - Jewish Marxist podcasters on The Antifada which colonized the term for Palestinian resistance for their 'sex work is work' PMC Epstein anarcho neoliberalism in NYC
>>2801180this is historical materialism, fundamental to leftist theory. if only youd read more
>>2801186Here is an instance of Lenin speaking out against tailism, and using the word to boot:
>At the present time the slogans have been superseded by events, the movement has left them behind, they have become tatters, rags fit only to cloth the hypocrisy of the Osvobozhdeniye and of the new Iskra tailism!https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/tactics/ch08.htmHere is an instance of Lenin speaking out against commandism (without using the word commandism explicitly, but nevertheless speaking out against the phenomenon of commandism itself):
>Far be it from us to deny the significance of heroic individual blows, but it is our duty to sound a vigorous warning against becoming infatuated with terror, against taking it to be the chief and basic means of struggle, as so many people strongly incline to do at present. Terror can never be a regular military operation; at best it can only serve as one of the methods employed in a decisive assault. But can we issue the call for such a decisive assault at the present moment? Rabocheye Dyelo apparently thinks we can. At any rate, it exclaims: “Form assault columns!” But this, again, is more zeal than reason. The main body of our military forces consists of volunteers and insurgents. We possess only a few small units of regular troops, and these are not even mobilised; they are not connected with one another, nor have they been trained to form columns of any sort, let alone assault columns. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1901/may/04.htmWill your next objection be that marxists.org is untrustworthy, that the translation is bad, that i need to take a flight to russia and go through the soviet archives?
>>2801187the thing that doesn't make sense about the western love for zionism as a means of advancing middle east interests is none of the gulf states are hostile to the west in any way and even Iran would love to sell its oil to the west if they were allowed to. who exactly are they strategically securing the middle east against by giving israel nukes to use on its neighbors?
>>2801186> does it make sense to talk about identifying those in a fucking anonymous internet image board.remember we're talking about people from 100 years ago who went by pseudonyms and denounced each other through newspapers LOL
>>2801192my objections are as follows:
- your first quote while mentioning tailism, because it does not provide wider context of what lenin is talking about, fails to prove that he defined it as such and further more fails to illuminate whether it's relevant to talk about it as a tendency on leftypol dot org
- similarly with the second quote, the proper context is not provided. who is lenin writing to? when was this published? what was the publication? was this writing in response to something? all of these questions would serve to answer the question of whether or not it makes sense to ask about these tendencies on a internet image board.
>>2801199your new goalposts are tiresome. you win the argument. you have proved i can't read, i am retarded, lenin never talked about such things. the above quotes don't exist, and nobody should read them. the video i posted doesn't contain sources. i lied about everything. i can't even read the words i'm typing right now
>>2801197we're talking about people who knew each others identities and who even though they might have been countries apart at any given time were also a part of organized political groups (second intenational). these were people who knew each other. even when they were writing in pseudonyms they knew who was writing what. and there was a proper practical significance to their debates.
>>2801200never post here again.
>>2801200'arguing with a fool, only proves there are two of them'
-sun tzu or Buddha or some other wise guy idk
>>2801202so true bestie. not only did i fail to post sources here>>2801192 , and not only am i illiterate and unabled to read the words i am typing right now, and not only were you right about lenin never denouncing such tendencies, but such tendencies are good actually, and we should embody them as much as we can.
i hate how much imageboard culture devolved into just pretending not to understand things for the sake of being annoying.
>>2801207yeah it was pretty crazy how that one anon asked for sources and played dumb after they were posted
>>2800764>revisionistsyou can call me a heretic as much as you want, we're in completely uncharted territory here and no one seems to have any idea what to do except doing the same things we tried a century ago with varying degrees of success
>>2801243say what to do instead instead of complaining. come up with the new plan.
>>2801255>say what to do instead instead of complaining. come up with the new plan.it doesn't matter what the plan is there isn't any public willpower to get anything done. you could encourage people to burn down AI datacenters all day long but they still won't do it because despite being in their material interest, they don't see it that way. so where do we go from here, to burning down AI datacenters? how do we radicalize people? and no telling them to read won't do anything. do we unironically need more tiktokers and twitch streamers that can spread socialist messaging to the masses? that sounds /isg/ as fuck but lenin would probably say yes if it's the only way to reach them.
>>2801255if i had the expertise for producing this plan, it wouldn't necessarily matter since i'd have to get a lot of people on board with it (impossible given they're too busy jerking it to the failures of the past) and even if i do, it wouldn't be enough to do much of anything
>>2801262we could at least start by yelling at the mods to setup a tor-only board for local direct action plans.
bring back 4chan raids but for good this time…
>>2801059what is this radlibery.
>>2801274
if the 5000-member CPUSA is able to prevent the 340-million-population USA from having a "left" then they are the strongest right wing party in human history. how are these 5000 waffentwerps so powerful? they get so much done with so little.
>>2801274
CPUSA only became a Democrat-aligned party after 2000 when its orthodox Marxist leader died and was replaced by a Democrat. The American left was a joke long before that. America didn't have any left-wing presence in government or labor organizing since like, basically ever since Kruschev betrayed Stalin and disillusioned every American Socialist from European/Soviet Socialism.
Only in the past like 15 years with the rise of China has there been a resurgence of interest in Socialism, and yet most self-identified Socialists are of the DSA liberal/progressive crowd that the CPUSA helped create rather than CCP-supporting Marxists. Weird how that works. They just piggyback off China's economic successes and then use it to funnel support to the Democrats while posting images of Xi Jinping as Winnie the Pooh. Sorry thats kind of a unrelated tangent.
>>2801279
>The CPUSA used to be much larger and more influential than it was, and it used it's influence to walk the American left down a garden path that they knew would fail, almost like it was an intentional strategy to destroy the left.
False, the CPUSA was a hardcore Stalinist party when it had its largest membership. It only collapsed after Kruschev's betrayal of Stalinism, and then again after the fall of the USSR. By the time it got absorbed by the Democrats it was already basically worthless as an organizing force.
I don't know why Felix keeps talking about CPUSA when they are basically irrelevant to modern American Socialism. We should be criticizing DSA more heavily for having over 100,000 members and not doing shit with it.
>>2801280The CPUSA's mistake came far before that, they refused to go underground when they met with repression from the state, rather they switched their tactics to a policy of collaboration and denial of revolution in order to appease the state. Their policy of strict legality (and therefore, complete disregard of Leninism) doomed the American left to complete irrelevance.
>>2801278We eat our vitamins.
>>2801274
>>2801279
gods, they're so powerful. i've knocked on MILLIONS of doors in the usa, and i ask regular working class families why they vote democrat and republican and every single time, 100% of the time, without failure, they say "because the browderite CPUSA told us to." the dracula-like mind-control powers of the CPUSA is unrivaled. not even the government of israel is so powerful in this ability to make americans (otherwise innocent and marx-loving people) be reactionary.
The DNCUPSA should have responded to the red scares, let alone Taft-Hartley, with armed struggle against the US government, their failure to do so is the reason why we cannot have a proletarian revolution in our lifetimes.
>>2801285you're ignoring that there were already underground elements like the black panthers, weather underground, etc doing that work and many members of "clean" communist parties/labor movements were also involved in underground organizations and tried to keep their work separate to avoid endangering their allies. that's literally the basis for Leninism.
what CPUSA did wrong was positioning themselves as a subordinate of the Soviets instead of developing themselves as True Independent American Communists Who Don't Need No State Sponsor. Once the USSR fell they were cooked. "international communism", at least as an organizing strategy, is flawed for this very reason: people don't like feeling like their work is just furthering the interests of a foreign state. communism must develop organically in every nation. at least China seems to understand this.
>>2801292i think implicitly we all know this but we also don't want to die so it's hard to reconcile wanting to see americans suffer for their crimes and not wanting to suffer as an american. even if you try to flee the country you'll just be accused of exploiting your american status to colonial tourism.
All of you still don't get it, so this is my last try to explain things.
Imagine its your sophmore homecoming dance, and everyone is trying to ask out Sandy Crabwich, the most beautiful teenager in West Virginia. Picture doing up your ginger hair (I call it fiery) with pomade and trying your best to look like John Travolta from Saturday Night Fever.
Then imagine she tells you she's going out with the CPUSA guy.
He STEALS her VIRGIN PURITY that night. You could have had it all. You could have had a wonderful night together. But instead she aborts her baby and you're stuck as a VIRGIN.
Sandy Crabwich is the Proletariat. CPUSA is the jock fucking her.
Do you understand now?
>>2801295The Black Panthers and Weather Underground had no connection to the working class, which is why they failed.
The CPUSA had so much influence on the labor movement in America that the government wrote a law specifically forbidding them from being involved in any union organizing. They responded to this, like they responded to every other repression from the state, with absolutely nothing. A real Communist party would have maintained their influence by organizing clandestine structures and started laying the groundwork for a campaign of active warfare against the state, which is exactly as Lenin said.
>>2801297
no, trust me bro. millions of americans are democrat voting imperialist treatlerites because the 5000 CPUSA members trained them like dogs to vote democrat. please do not question the logic of the average voter in the most anti communist country on earth waiting with bated breath to hear what a "communist" party has to say, even if it is communist in name only
>>2801302i think we have enough political party style orgs rn. we need more weather undergrounds and black panthers. also stop trolling lmao @ "black panthers had no connection to the working class"
>>2801302yeah i wonder who told them to do that… oh wait it was the USSR under stalin
>>2801304
who cares, total burger death is a hypothetical you can't implement and so is total burger victory. what is most likely to happen is climate collapse and slow decline of standard of living all countries. everyone will be so miserable, stupid, reactionary, they'll forget history anyway. we'll go back to tribal and decentralized forms of living after billions die and live in the misunderstood ruins of our own "civilization"
The entire point of the existence of a Communist party is to organize an army which is capable of waging war on the state and defeating it. If you are not trying to organize an army, an actual, tangible, physical military structure which can engage and destroy the agents of the state, you are not a Communist and never will be. Legalism is antithetical to Communism. It is a contradiction in terms on par with a vegetarian tiger.
>>2801306The Black Panthers had a tenuous connection, at best, to the urban lumpenproletariat but had no deeply rooted connection to any organs of working class power, that is to say the trade unions or other organized proletarian instruments. The reason for this, of course, is because the DNCUPSA never intensively organized blacks like they should have and had not built the structures that could grow to support an organization like the Black Panthers. The black proletariat has never been adequately organized by anyone in America, and that is absolutely by design.
>>2801313 Find me a source for that claim which isn't literally Goebbels, I dare you.
>>2801315> Find me a source for that claim which isn't literally Goebbels, I dare you.he's a ragebaiter who just makes shit up. notice he never responds to corrections and just adds another false claim on top of the previous. he's a little sociopath who has fun riling others up by lying in a place where he won't get punched for it
>>2801313
schizo babble, consider suicide
>>2801309It wasn't Stalin, it was Dimitrov.
Dimitrov was absolutely, catastrophically wrong on numerous occasions. He was wrong about the "Popular Front of the Base" and he was wrong about the CPUSA's policy of co-existence. He doomed both the German and the American working class with his policies, and his disastrous policy of appeasement towards Social Fascists led to the Social Fascists fulfilling their destiny as the midwives of Fascism.
>>2801326
there is but it would require starting out as a militant violent org that cannot be possibly tamed from the outset.
the porkies were legit terrified when zoomers were cheering Luigi for like a month. the idea they couldn't just take control of the narrative branding him as a lunatic killer and people still cheered him scared the fuck out of the CNN/Fox glowies.
it's my opinion Americans are just too cowardly right now, conditions aren't bad enough for them to risk their life for it. only when Americans are desperate enough to die for revolution will it actually happen. i tried to argue with a girl about how republican abortion bans are literally killing people and women should take a more active role in dealing with their political enemies whom are basically engaging in femicide instead of tweeting about it and she looked at me like i was crazy, despite abortion being her #1 political issue she had no stomach for doing anything. the goycattle have been domesticated way too successfully man.
>>2801333The conditions in many ways resemble the great depression and getting worse at a rapid rate in terms of relative immiseration. The issue is moreso that the state is still functioning and can afford an extensive police state which can and does immediately break any organization which acts on revolutionary aims. A lot of workers in the US are debt slaves, homeless, living in slums and shared housing, and they cheer whenever a porky gets shot or a warehouse burns down. I think they do understand that capitalism is in fact fucking them.
>>2801335
The Maoist groups failed mostly because revisionist China has denounced internationalism (and therefore Communism) since the time of Deng Xiaoping. FARC tried to implement Maoist tactics in a country that did not have a peasant supermajority and it predictably failed.
>>2801339
This is precisely why figures like MLK are deified by the government (and the DNCUPSA, who explicitly wants to build a MLK-inspired movement) because the tactic of non-violence cannot ever overthrow a government, which is precisely why the government allows it. Communists must mix legal and illegal work (with an emphasis on the later) with the explicit goal of destroying the US government, not maintaining and reforming it like DNCPUSA wants to do.
>NEW: Treasury Secretary Bessent says Americans should be concerned about AI hacking their bank accounts.
>>2800968i saw a /pol/ post that said household income for indians is so high because they live like 14 people in a single home, but i dont know if that was just racism or if there is any truth in that.
>income=class status
rarted post, report, and ignore.
>>2801378
they are workers. ask yourself: if they lose their jobs, for how long can they sustain their quality of life?
only capitalists, meaning owners of the means of production, don't lose their jobs, they can be forever rich, their sons will inherit those means, and they don't worry about what happens to the prices of a commodity or commodities in the capitalist market.
>cops
anarkido, the USSR didn't kill all cops, military officers, etc. that they inherited from the tzarist state.
don't antagonize for the sakes of antagonize with everyone that sells labor. that's anti-Marxist, and anti-communist in nature.
>>2801412Not reading your westoid nonsense
>>2801415marx was a brother
>>2801343
Industrial workers have as much leverage since industry is rather easy to move around now (hence the need for class consciousness and internationalism) and the industry is increasingly automated anyway.
>>2801345>The Maoist groups failed mostly because revisionist China has denounced internationalism (and therefore Communism) since the time of Deng Xiaoping. Wrong. China is most internationalist country. China has achieved modern socialism. China helps everyone. The socialist transformation of private ownership of the means of production has been completed, the system of exploitation of man by man abolished, and a socialist system established. The exploiting class, as a class, is eliminated. You talk lies. Your talk here is cia script. Stop.
>This is precisely why figures like MLK are deified by the government (and the DNCUPSA, who explicitly wants to build a MLK-inspired movement) because the tactic of non-violence cannot ever overthrow a government, which is precisely why the government allows it. Communists must mix legal and illegal work (with an emphasis on the later) with the explicit goal of destroying the US government, not maintaining and reforming it like DNCPUSA wants to do.You too abstract. You idealist. You conflate fascist zioabetters with misguided Communist Party that uses wrong tactics. CPUSA not reform government. You say CPUSA are not fascists, just fool Communists. You wrong. ziocom snakes know what they are doing. Fact is Mlk was zionist and cpusa is as well. They same camp. Your talk of mlk cpusa overthrowing government "nonviolently" is hogwash. By doing so you CEDE to common DNCPUSA ZIOMLK mortal enemy that they are leftist, they resemble leftists, that they seek to overthrow imperialism and not support it, like saying nasdap is socialist with wrong tactics. Contradiction is zioimperialism and socialism, not abstract confucian notion of violence and nonviolence.
>>2801474Go to China faggot. Fill the visa application, and go there. You'll never do it because you are coward, but do it, and tell me how they abolished "the system of exploitation of man by man" in the McDonalds on every other street corner.
>>2801359Their may be some truth to that but I think that's for every group and not so much 14 people living in a household but more like some of your adult children living at home while working and getting an income. The 100k households seem to be the highest percentage for most of the groups on that list.
>>2801460
Idk, there's several reasons why they would and wouldn't do that. The Marxist theory is that if workers are able to act in their interests, their class interest will bind them together insofar as it concerns fighting the bourgeoisie and capitalism more broadly, just as it binds the bourgeoisie in the exploitation of workers and ensuring the accumulation of capital proceeds smoothly. Of course there are countervailing tendencies to this, capitalists with rebellious workers, assuming profit rates are high enough, can pay workers enough for their living standards to improve over time to ensure that they don't take over as the ruling class of society by taking over their workplaces and installing their own form of government, while the state apparatus acts to maintain the capitalist system via various means of repression, as has happened in the 20th century. Since capitalism is organized on a national basis these factors vary slightly from country to country. Internationalism and class consciousness are not teleological predictions, but rather a loose set of requirements for social revolution based on the historical experience of liberal revolutions and observations about capitalism.
>>2801345you type like a libtard
>>2801488
>1488
the numbers know what u are
>>2801310
>both are settlers
Post dismissed
>>2801488
Too obvious
>>2801487>just read marxx bro>you're a bersteinite because you think the methods that haven't worked or achieved much of anything for several decades are badyou're apart of the problem, we live in a period so different from the early 20th century, even from the mid-late 20th century, to pretend we can just do everything lenin or whoever did is idiotic, we are gonna go nowhere if we don't re-evaluate and at least attempt something different than reformist nonsense like picrel, or the same vanguard method as if it is anything more than a compromise suited to underdeveloped capitalist nations
>>2801564>we live in a period so different from the early 20th century, even from the mid-late 20th centurynot really. instead of bitching and moaning about how nothing makes sense and how its too complicated for your little peanut brain try catching up on the material first
>>2801573
Wouldn't the Jews want that to be real though? Don't the Jews supposedly want us to go to war?
>>2801570and i am doing this where? i understand it perfectly, it's simply out of date
>unironic modernizers on leftypol
Why isnt he permabanned already? What the fuck?
>>2801585this isn't a bordigist website last time i checked
>>2801586Wtf is a bordigist?
>>2801377
Yeah? So?
>>2801493>peepiss>anpisspisspiss>synpisspissfichte, not hegel
>>2801455
the number 1 marx hater is back again
my hgraf stock is stuck in the 5 range. Well at least this proves it wasnt a pump and dump at least.
>>2801411>>2801415>>2801455grow up dude
>>2801585can someone explain what the fuck "modernizer" is supposed to mean? Is it just a stupider way of saying "revisionist"?
1 second i read "marxism is not a dogma, but a method to be applied contextually to time and place in the real movement"
the next minute i hear "everyone who uttered a word after 1895 is a revisionist modernizer falsifier vulgarizer"
Le interimperialist conflict
>>2801601its quite simple really
everyone i like is a true marxist
everyone i hate is a revisionist
>>2801601No, revisionists are falsifiers, not modernizers
>>2801605Its not about hating or liking.
>>2801396>>2801387money becomes money-capital when used as capital in capital circuit (this, incidentally, includes investment, including indirect investment through financial assets like stocks, bonds, certificates of deposit, privatized retirement plans, mutual funds, ETF, etc.). hope that helps, fellas.
>>2801612i've seen this exact ragebait copypasta a million times on twitter. same with the "my enemy is not the american ruling class, but the american people"
the LLMs just pump out ragebait until one sticks really good and then all the shillbot accounts repeat it to psychologically torture whatever human beings are left on the internet
new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656new thread
>>2801656>>2801585if burger hitlerites itt can sperg out about jews do you think the mods care about misunderstanding of marxist theory
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