🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™
<ICE crematorium editionOP Backup Site:
https://usapol.neocities.org/💀 ICE & Prison Resources
(Amerika is the most incarcerated country in the world!)
• ICE tracker using public info and user submissions //
https://www.iceinmyarea.org/• list of deaths at ICE concentration camps //
https://www.aila.org/infonet/deaths-at-adult-detention-centers• visualization of prison population in US //
https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/• Organizing in Prison — for when the walls close in (RANT Collective) //
https://www.organizingforpower.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Organizing-in-Jail.pdf• database of U.S. facilities incl. ICE holding sites //
https://alcpress.org/usjails/index.html• list of prison related resources, mailing lists, etc //
https://www.prisonactivist.org/resources• ICE Agent List (incomplete) //
https://wiki.icelist.is/index.php/Category:Agents• US Political Prison Tracker (last updated 2025) //
https://uspoliticalprisoners.com/Jailhouse Reading:
• 📖 Angela Davis - Are Prisons Obsolete? //
https://dn790007.ca.archive.org/0/items/the-anarchist-library-full-list-of-pdfs-nov-2020/angela-y-davis-are-prisons-obsolete.pdf• 📖 How to Defend Yourself During Police Interrogation //
https://www.notrace.how/resources/download/comment-la-police-interroge-et-comment-sen-defendre/how-to-defend-yourself-during-a-police-interrogation.pdf• 📖 National Lawyers Guild guide to being a jailhouse lawyer //
https://www.jailhouselaw.org/• 📖 Critical Resistance - Surviving Solitary Confinement //
https://criticalresistance.org/resources/surviving-solitary/• 📖 An inside-outside publication for abolitionist struggle & strategy across prison walls //
https://criticalresistance.org/abolitionist/• 📖 Prisoners’ Self-Help Litigation Manual //
https://api.pageplace.de/preview/DT0400.9780199705665_A35159258/preview-9780199705665_A35159258.pdf⚒️ LABOR!
• Live strike tracker with deep stats on who, what and when //
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/• AFL-CIO [imperialist]'s Strike Tracker //
https://aflcio.org/strike-map• Labor Bureau's Official 'work stoppage' tracker //
https://www.bls.gov/wsp/• IWW timeline for the 20th century (ends at 1999) //
https://archive.iww.org/history/chronology/• IWW Work Place Organizing Guide //
https://usa.anarchistlibraries.net/library/industrial-workers-of-the-world-libcom-org-solidarity-federation-walthamstow-anarchist-group-wo• ▶ Salting | Work Place Organizing 101 (50 minute webinar) //
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SHlCLyM4FY⚖️ Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
• deep list of horrible shit we (royal we) have done //
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md• Coups and regime changes – master list //
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list• Wikipedia: United States War Crimes //
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes• /our boys/ (bring em home!) detail abusing Iraqi prisoners [2006] //
https://www.hrw.org/report/2006/07/22/no-blood-no-foul/soldiers-accounts-detainee-abuse-iraq• More than 250 military interventions in the last 30 years alone //
https://blackagendareport.com/us-launched-251-military-interventions-1991-and-469-1798• Visualization of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade //
https://www.slavevoyages.org/• UNESCO Sites relating to Slavery //
https://slaveryandremembrance.org/• First Hand Documents of the horrors of Slavery //
https://www.loc.gov/collections/slave-narratives-from-the-federal-writers-project-1936-to-1938/📺 Glowie News 📺
(sponsored by the Burger Eagle Freedom Institute (formerly USAID))
• CNN Live //
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/cnn-news-usa.html• MSNBC Live //
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/msnbc.html• FOX Live //
https://www.livenewsnow.com/american/fox-news-channel.html• Bloomberg Live //
https://www.bloomberg.com/live/us• Burger House Live //
https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/• Local News //
https://www.50states.com/ce/• Weather //
https://www.noaa.gov/weather📺 Gommie News 📺
• Jacobin //
https://jacobin.com/~~• Black Agenda Report //
https://blackagendareport.com/• The Grayzone //
https://thegrayzone.com/• Leftvoice //
https://www.leftvoice.org/• Newsanon Filter //
https://leftypol.org/search.php?search=name%3A%22News+Anon+3.0%22&board=leftypol🏝️ Epstein's Client List 🇮🇱
• Epstein's Black Book //
https://epsteinsblackbook.com/• DOJ Disclosures //
https://www.justice.gov/epstein/doj-disclosures• Track AIPAC //
https://www.trackaipac.com/• Al Jazeera visual guide (2026) //
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/2/10/struggling-to-navigate-the-epstein-files-here-is-a-visual-guideEssential American Politik 📖
• 📖 WEB Du Bois - Black Reconstruction //
https://cominsitu.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/w-e-b-du-bois-black-reconstruction-an-essay-toward-a-history-of-the-part-which-black-folk-played-in-the-attempt-to-reconstruct-democracy-2.pdf• 📖 Eugene Debs - Fourth of July Speech //
https://jacobin.com/2020/07/eugene-debs-independence-day-address-fourth-july• 📖 Power Anywhere There's People! – Fred Hampton //
https://www.hamptonthink.org/read/power-anywhere-where-thats-people-fred-hampton• 📖 War is a Racket – Smedley Butler //
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html• 📖 Letters From an American Farmer – St. John de Crevoecoeur //
https://americanliterature.com/author/j-hector-st-john-de-crevoecoeur/book/letters-from-an-american-farmer/summary• 📖 Trail of Broken Treaties // American Indian Movement
https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf• 📖 The Declaration of Independence
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript•
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript• 📖 The Ballot or the Bullet – Malcolm X //
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdfs/ballot_or_bullet.pdf• 📖 What to the Slave is the Fourth of July? – Frederick Douglass //
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/sites/default/files/inline-pdfs/douglass_july_4_speech.pdf• 📖 A Trail of Broken Treaties – American Indian Movement //
https://www.usu.edu/mountainwest/files/bennion-workshop/trail-of-broken-treaties-20-point-position-paper-1972.pdf• 📖 Custer Died for Your Sins – Vine Deloria Jr. //
http://www.riversimulator.org/Resources/Books/CusterDiedForYourSinsAnIndianManifesto1969Deloria.pdf• 📖 Emancipation Proclamation – Lincoln //
https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/emancipation-proclamation• 📖 Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville //
https://americanliterature.com/author/alexis-de-tocqueville/book/democracy-in-america/summary• 📖 Common Sense – Thomas Paine //
https://americainclass.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Common-Sense-Full-Text.pdf• 📖 An Indigenous History of the United States – Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz //
https://nycstandswithstandingrock.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dunbar-ortiz-2014.pdf• 📖 Huey Long – Share Our Wealth //
https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth/huey-longs-share-our-wealth-speechWhich side are you on? - Pete Seeger
▶
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XKMwWZVpPEPrevious Thread:
>>2820017 Reminder: The DNCUPSA's stated strategy is literally "Vote Blue No Matter Who"
This means that they support not just Platner, but every other DemoKKKrat who is actively holding back the American working class. They know this, which is why they do it. DNCPUSA is an anti-Communist party in praxis, even if they are too cowardly to admit to being such in words.
>>2822117>DNCPUSA isn't just "revisionist Communists", they are an out and proud Strasserite party. The only reason this site tolerates, let alone supports them, is because you're also all Strasserites.yet you talk to us all day and beg us to do things
>>2822184that game is never coming out lol
>>2822188Both this game and my future burger gf will come
>>2822182https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/trumps-redistricting-wars-are-an-attack-on-every-worker/Every seat that flips means fewer votes for raising the federal minimum wage. Fewer votes for the PRO Act, which would be the most significant expansion of workers’ right to organize in decades. Fewer votes for student debt relief, for expanding ACA subsidies, for protecting Medicaid, for infrastructure funding that creates union jobs.
It also means more votes for privatizing Social Security. More votes for eliminating prevailing wage requirements on federal projects. More votes for eliminating student aid (what’s left of it). More votes for making abortion illegal nationwide and for prosecuting women. More votes to eliminate marriage equality. More votes for eliminating minimum wage.
>>2822189both will disappoint you
>>2822193The fact that the only avenue that the DNCPUSA can find to defend the DemoKKKrats from is IDPol shows how incredibly bankrupt they are intellectually. It's hard to believe that creature has a PhD, given the weakness of it's arguments, but then again maybe it's not so shocking given the bourgeois, anti-Communist nature of KKKollege in America. Especially graduate school.
USA is closer to 1905 or 1903?
>>28222011880 with Peoples Will style attacks on the tsar
>>2822188GTA VI is going to be a disaster for the industry when it comes out. To be profitable it'll have to be bought by something like 1/3rd of all PS5 owners (something I don't doubt its capable of) and its gonna convince a bunch of dumbass investors to chase after GTA VI money with every franchise.
We're definitely gonna see something like the next Assassin's Creed costing $80 on release and spending so much money that it'd need to do gangbusters to break even.
Reminder that Felix's growing list of "reactionaries" to be killed immediately includes
>Anybody who's religious
>Anyone who's ever been a member of the "wrong" leftist group, which is all of them except his microsect
>Anybody who has voted for or campaigned for a Democrat or a Republican
>Anyone who's ever received a college education
>Service industry workers, including those on minimum wage
>Most public servants
>Anybody who owns a home or is related to someone who owns a home
>Anyone who references pop culture
>Anyone with even the slightest bit of military training
and of course
>Anyone who has ever done anything that could be perceived as defending one of the above condemned groups, including others in this category
>>2822209anyone who has fun
>>2822211Not entirely true, if you're a psychopath who finds joy in torturing and killing anybody in the above groups you're gucci. So there IS room for fun technically
everyone ITT sucks. "you're all strasserites" guy sucks. ACP dickrider sucks. DNC dickriders suck. RNC dickriders suck. /ISG/ offtopic posters suck. namefags suck.
America needs an independent, militant working class party that is NOT obsessed with idpol either from a reactionary or a liberal standpoint, that is NOT collaborationist with the imperialist state, and is NOT run by psycho nihilists and doomsday prophets with no social skills.
>>2822209You forgot troops.
The only good troop is one who's dead.
>>2822214Yes, this is why organizations like the DNCUPSA and DᛋᛋA need to be actively confronted and destroyed, they stand in the way of building an independent, militant working class party and this is BY DESIGN in both cases. Study the history of Michael Harrington and his feud with the "New Left" and you will quickly find out that the explicit purpose of the DᛋᛋA was always to hamstring and destroy any Communist movement in America.
>>2822215That was already included with "Anyone with even the slightest bit of military training". Props to you not even bothering to deny the rest of it though. The only problem with your program is that you'll have to kill at minimum 9 out of 10 Americans for it, and you've yet to articulate how a socialist America is going to function when it's totally depopulated and most of the survivors are being "reeducated" through hard labor
>>2822217If you can't tell the difference between an illiterate conscript in 1917 and a fully educated, entirely willing and enthusiastic volunteer in 2026 then I don't even know what to say to you.
>>2822219You have yet to answer how you plan on establishing a socialist America when you also want to kill most of the population and "reeducate" the survivors
>>2822219youre right the illiterate russian conscripts in 1917 were raping and razing austrian villiages by the dozens while the garrison guards back home were watching or participating in jewish pograms so yeah clearly worse
>>2822217>>2822219>>2822221>>2822223impudent, talking over each other, more interested in purging imagined dissent than building a real movement to abolish the present state of things. simultaneously puritanical tyrants and bloodthirsty opportunists.
>>2822221The first goal is to destroy America. America MUST be destroyed if we want the rest of the world to live. The existence of the United States of America is an existential threat to every other human living on earth and the only solution is it's complete destruction, root and stem. Any other argument is literally collaborationism.
>>2822223Some were, the rest were building Soviet power. But there is a significant difference in both class composition and relationship to the state between the American Soldat (who, by the way, if you knew ANYTHING about what these thugs did in Iraq and Afghanistan you wouldn't even be trying to make such a moralistic argument) and the Russian conscript of 1917.
>>2822228I'm the anon from the third quote and I am indeed quite interested in dialogue because I dont really think killing people because they watched a Marvel movie is praxis. I'm just trying to parse how someone who does plan on killing the vast majority of the American population plans on running the country afterwards when most people are dead and the survivors outside of his microsect are forced into camps
>>2822232So "kill every American" is your platform then? How do you expect anybody to join your microsect if you plan on murdering them all? Your plan to "destroy America" seems pretty counterproductive and liable to get you and your six buddies killed in a shootout with the feds, but I guess you'll at least die pure rather than living with the shame of compromising on your ideals
>>2822232America is already destroying itself without your help thanks to the shortsighted bourgeois butchers in both parties. And it is only blind historical force that can destroy America because if it is done deliberately America will just nuke the planet the same way the kulaks torched their own fields: to avoid redistribution. If you try to destroy America from the inside: nuclear war. If you try to destroy America from the outside: nuclear war. I would instruct you to let America die of its own cancer without triggering nuclear war, but there is no need to instruct you because you have no influence. You are an irrelevant ape yelling into a void, just like me.
>>2822234Death to America (the state) not Americans (black and indigenous people), but death to Americans (whites and Jews).
>>2822237Most blacks and indigenous people are also religious, and according to Felix killing anybody who's religious is based communist praxis
>>2822209Reminder to uphold Felixism-Chagosian Thought against democrat dickriders and american chauvinists
I really hate america but americans are often kind of cool tbh, just really fucking stupid, it's kinda cute even
>>2822242I dream of man handling an American bimbo twunk and drinking his leche
>>2822242A lot of Americans hate America too, that's the funny thing. This country fucking sucks. It needs to be dismantled and replaced by something less awful. But you cant do that if you kill over 90% of them and enslave the rest, in that case you're not a communist but a killpeopleist
>>2822246The US gets more immigrants than the UK
>>2822249more immigrants = less approval for immigration is typically how that works, especially since new arrivals are often the most anti-immigrant
If you kill everyone Westoid the proletariat wins so I fail to see the problem
>>2822237mixed people look at deranged posts like these and just laugh
>>2822251>new arrivals are often the most anti-immigrantassimilation pressure, economic competition, "pull up the ladder behind me" effect, "I'm not like those new migrants" effect, new political identity overrides the old one, etc.
>>2822246>we're gonna lose our hecking national identitynobody has an identity to lose. hello? roman britain. norman conquest. viking invasions. globe spanning empire… what does it even mean to be "british". the continents themselves move. it's called continental drift. people are addicted to these mtaphysical identitarian fictions that exist only in their heads. they pretend these fragile "traditions" which have existed for 3 or 4 generations extend eternally backwards and forwards in time.
>>2822244>This country fucking sucks. It needs to be dismantled and replaced by something less awful. But you cant do that if you kill over 90% of them and enslave the rest, in that case you're not a communist but a killpeopleistpeople who talk like that think they're cutting through the gordian knot
Are we just gonna let Israel slowly wipe out Gaza? Because that's what's happening now
>>2822265I'm not stopping you, follow your dreams
>>2822265the genocide of Palestinians has been happening since 1948. It merely intensified in 2023. Since "we" did nothing between 1948 and 2023, "we" will also do nothing after 2023
>>2822265t. time traveler from oct 2023
>Utah officials have declared a statewide emergency following one of the worst snow seasons on record. This winter was so poor that officials dubbed it a “no-pack” season, with mountain snowpack ending near all-time lows.
>Snowpack serves as the West’s natural frozen reservoir. Each spring and summer, melting snow slowly releases water into rivers, reservoirs, farms, cities, and ecosystems. This year, that critical system largely collapsed.
>Since April 1, much of Utah has seen only 50–75% of normal precipitation. More than 60% of the state is now in extreme drought. The impacts are already hitting hard. Farmers face sharply reduced water allocations, Salt Lake City has urged residents to cut outdoor water use by 20%, and major reservoirs like Lake Powell sit at critically low levels, threatening hydroelectric power and putting further strain on the entire Colorado River system.
>Scientists warn this is part of a broader, long-term shift across the American West. Climate change is driving warmer temperatures that cause snow to melt earlier, increase evaporation, and turn more winter precipitation into rain instead of snow. Rain runs off quickly, making it far harder to store water for the dry summer months ahead.
>The drought has also dramatically raised wildfire risk, as dry vegetation and low soil moisture turn landscapes into tinder.
>While summer thunderstorms may bring temporary relief, officials say they are unlikely to solve the deepening water deficit.
>This crisis underscores just how dependent the Western United States remains on mountain snow, and how fragile that system becomes when winters stop delivering as they once did.https://www.deseret.com/environment/2026/05/21/utah-emergency-order-drought/of course, Utah is governed by a gop moron, so the draught is caused by proximate weather causes, not because of a deeper theory.
and of course, called for a
https://governor.utah.gov/uncategorized/gov-cox-declares-june-29-a-statewide-day-of-prayer-and-fasting-for-rainstatewide Day of Prayer and Fasting for RainGod be like: oh, you chuds praying and fastening for rains?
whattabout no.
>>2822207It's been 13 years since GTA V came out so I think it can play the long game.
>OVER 14% OF U.S. CREDIT CARD BALANCES NOW 90+ DAYS DELINQUENT, HIGHEST LEVEL SINCE 2011
>>2822261"Continents" aren't even real either btw, their definition is arbitrary because they're a social, political, and economic construct. They have no basis in actual science. Our entire world is based upon constructs (Marx's superstructure) that are used to control the Overton window and enslave us in order to keep us divided and fighting amongst each other instead of uniting against those in power.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/lewis-myth.html?_r=1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#Definitions_and_application >>2822276Discussion about AI is so exhausting honestly, just constant hysteria being fanned by people who worship it like its god.
I read it did some useful math thing, thats kinda cool, but i dont like that the world seemingly revolves around AI.
>>2822233it's the ideology of an ecoterrorist, not a sincere ideology other than "MURDER MURDER KILL KILL KILL"
>>2822269The Palestinian population has increased so to call it a genocide since 1948 would be a mistake.
We need to do something before everyone in Gaza is wiped out. Long term illness will also kill them
>>2822276every technology is a double edged sword. the question is how it is used. you can't "un-invent" a technology. even "lost" or "forgotten" tech is more a matter of it becoming abandoned and irrelevant.
>>2822289>The Palestinian population has increased so to call it a genocide since 1948 would be a mistake.i disagree. just because the population increased during that time doesn't mean there wasn't a broader genocidal effort by the zionist regime to slowly enclose palestinians in a prison where they could be exterminated. that is a genocidal effort.
>>2822280even atoms are social construct. "something exists" is the only true statement. There isn't even a fundamental particular thing which eixsts because particles are just excitations of a universal substrate. Socal constructs are needed to highlight specific aspects of the spacetime phenomenology that is relevant to our immediate purposes, which change over time.
>>2822290>the question is how it is usednot really. the capitalist advances the contradictions of the system itself by deploying new technology
>>2822294Atoms can be modeled with some consensus based on scientific principles, but things like "continents", "races", "genders", etc. can't because they're entirely constructed. If all scientific knowledge was lost, physics, chemistry, and biology would continue to operate based on atomic theory that is now lost, but if the constructs mentioned prior disappeared, absolutely nothing would change except for the way we think about and relate to each other. So no, there is a difference, because not all knowledge can be abstracted into irrelevance.
>tor node gets unbanned
>felix uses it to fedpost
>tor node gets banned again
>repeat over and over
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP THREATENING VIOLENCE EVAN REIF OR I WILL DOX YOUR HOME ADDRESS WITHOUT WARNING, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER
>2822289
>The Palestinian population has increased so to call it a genocide since 1948 would be a mistake.
retard
>>2822301iron felix isn't that guy. iron felix just pretends to be that guy. leave that guy alone. i'm not even gonna say his name.
In this thread posters figured out this larping white nationalist twitter girl is photos stolen from an onlyfans girl
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/535719102/white-women-are-waking-uLots of seething and Cope too lol
>>2822319It’s funny though
>>2822332
At least you are doing what you can (whining on leftypol) im sure they are thankful
>>2822279I’ve never been happier to have never had a credit card.
>>2822342
>None of these freaks want a revolution because they understand, deep down in their little black hearts, that they would be the first put up against the wall.
so true, not the bourgeoisie, not the police, not the glowies, not the troops, but checks notes people you personally have a beef with on leftypol dot larp
>>2822342
>CPUSA's Genocide
the US and israeli governments are breathing a sigh of relief that you blame an irrelevant party more than them.
>>2822346
ok then just say the US government
imagine letting a 100 year old, decrepit, dying unarmed, reformist, liberal party with 20,000 members live so rent free in your head that you literally think they're the waffen SS despite being way less relevant, way less militant, and not even a threat to the DNC. imagine being so delusional that you not only see this unarmed, irrelevant party is a bigger threat to Palestine than the US and Israeli military, but you actually think they are responsible for the genocide. Imagine accusing everyone who finds them irrelevant and stupid as secret collaborators. Imagine your entire rhetorical arsenal being kafka traps and larping as the next lenin. no life havin ass
>>2822352
i'm not in the CPUSA nor was i considering joining so maybe lay off the agitprop, you aren't even hitting your target audience. you're just talking to a brick wall.
>>2822342
So again how do you plan on killing 99.9% of the American population while still building communism and improving our quality of life?
>>2822343As Marx famously said, "we call communism the real movement which lets us get revenge on those bitches who argued with us on a dying website"
Posters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but irrelevant internet arguments! You have a forum to win!
>>2822356
This is just victim blaming
>>2822356
but neither are you, so you only hate yourself
>>2822356
>This is exactly why I hate them.
it's exactly why they are irrelevant and so are you.
>>2822364He's gonna shoot up his local Portland DSA Strasserites any day now! As soon as he works up the courage to actually confront them in the first place
>>2822369Without looking at the structural reasons people don’t “do anything”, Hollywood makes movies like Reds, Malcom X, or Judas and the Black Messiah to dunk on you, to say “try anything and we’ll kill you”.
So with that Google CEO telling college grads essentially they wasted their time and AI is gonna replace them I have to wonder if it’ll be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
Like I think techbros have been huffing their own farts for so long that they genuinely believe their shit about being “disruptors” so they’ll publicly say “we wanna replace humanity with ChatGPT” and then be baffled that anyone opposes it.
>>2822370>Hollywood makes movies like Reds, Malcom X, or Judas and the Black Messiah to dunk on you, to say “try anything and we’ll kill you”.that's also the purpose of Christianity. "A carpenter tried to throw the money lenders out of the temple so we nailed him to a piece of wood in a gesture of comedic irony. Now all his followers wear his emaciated and tortured bodies on little ornaments around their necks but don't follow what he said."
>>2822372I mean I've been seeing lots of videos of commencement speakers at colleges get drowned out by boos every time they praise AI and then looking totally bewildered. The people at the top know it's all bullshit, but it does seem like they've recruited a bunch of useful idiots who genuinely believe the hype. In any case though it's just another sign of the increased proletarianization of the American population, "intellectuals" included
If The Real Aluminum Andrew were in the first international, he would have been August Willich, the guy that tried to kill Marx for being too conservative.
to be fair Willich was based
>>2822373> that's also the purpose of Christianity. "A carpenter tried to throw the money lenders out of the temple so we nailed him to a piece of wood in a gesture of comedic irony. Now all his followers wear his emaciated and tortured bodies on little ornaments around their necks but don't follow what he said."and to top it off they managed to convince those followers to nail anybody to the cross who threatens to throw all the money lenders out again
>>2822380
You still haven't explained how you both plan on killing most of the American population and set up a functional socialist republic in the ashes that improves people's lives
>>2822380
>It might change if there was a militant, independent and principled Communist party to organize these people, but your insane far-right "Communist" party makes sure that won't happen.
Wow it's crazy how these unarmed mensheviks are stopping you from doing bolshevism.
<We are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. We have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy, and not of retreating into the neighbouring marsh, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road! Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!
This is Lenin, repudiating the anticommunist left in 1901. Compare this with The Terrific Tinfoil Terrence, who today declares for all that the CPUSA is stopping him:
>>2822380
<It might change if there was a militant, independent and principled Communist party to organize these people, but your insane far-right "Communist" party makes sure that won't happen.
>check in
>trolls are holding the thread hostage for the 1,000th time
Stop taking them in good faith
>>2822389Bad faith and bullying are fun and libidinal though
>>2822385
>These unarmed Mensheviks had the best chance anyone has ever had in American history
nobody unarmed has a chance you self contradicting imbecile
>>2822387according to Aluminum Frederick all of Lenin is irrelevant except his specific interpretation of State and Revolution
>>2822392who gives a fuck
>>2822396
Bro your "party" if it even exists is six people who cant even bring themselves to yell at some DSA liberals in Portland, much less wage a revolution. And you expect us to believe that these "cadres" of yours will exterminate 90-99% of the American population and establish a functional communist society in its place, without bothering to tell us how you plan on accomplishing it
>>2822396
>Imagine not understanding that this is literally the purpose of the DNCPUSA. Their job is to hold everyone in the marsh and prevent any progress of the American left.
they aren't that strong. just get up and walk out of the marsh. they aren't stopping you. if a party of 20,000 losers is stopping you, then you're a pussy. Even the Haztards left CPUSA and started ACP. What's stopping you? Because you're a bitch and you'll die seething about CPUSSAY on leftypol dot org.
>>2822404
If you actually believed in what you preach you'd have killed at least a few "revisionists" by now, but again you cant even bring yourself to yell at them in public, much less explain how you plan on killing hundreds of millions of people and simultaneously establishing communism on the ashes
>>2822404
You’re not gonna have s workers movement in a country with no workers
>>2822207The audacity of yank to demand cheaper luxury treats while they commit genocide 🤮 Vidya is bourgeois articles of luxury. Cheapening of luxury articles does not enable the worker to live more cheaply. He require same amount of labor-time to reproduce his labor-power as he did previously if vidya become more expensive.
>>2822372Watch vidrel. If you work for google, you are zionist. If you work for tech, you are zio. Palantir coders are bourgeois. You sow false hope in yank techbro nepobaby ziolabor aristocrats
>>2822402This. Of all the massive obstacles to socialism and proletarian organizing in America, the CPUSA for all its flaws is barely an anthill. If you seriously think they're a bigger problem than the Dems themselves, the two party system in general, the feds and COINTELPRO, right wing militias, yellow unions, the world's largest propaganda network, deindustrialization, general atomization and apathy, etc. then you are a fundamentally unserious person.
>>2822404
kautsky was wrong but lenin overcondemns him; ultimately both came from the 2nd international orthodoxy and shared many things in common even if kautsky ultimately betrayed the goal
>>2822415Ah but have you considered you have basic military training and therefor are part of the 99.9% of westerners who are ontologically evil?
>>2822374See I tend to think of the ruling class as being more incompetent than scheming. I don’t think there’s a hidden plan they’ve thought out with AI—I mean look at Elon Musk, he’s the richest man on earth and a dumbass!
I think there’s no plan beyond “AI will make line go up and we can cut out all those pesky labor costs!” So they’re stunned that people don’t sympathize with that. It’s kind of like how when that Techbro died in San Francisco part of the griping that other Tech Bros did was “Don’t you know this guy found a new way to show advertisements? He was so innovative! Why don’t you care?!”
>surely the problem is this group of a few thousand people, not the hundreds of billions of dollars going towards brainwashing hundreds of millions of people
The amount of circlejerking over leftist strategy is so tiresome.
It's like lab rats arguing over which button to press.
>>2822414lol he got hired because he's a weird ambiguous mix of black asian and mexican non-white and gay-voiced lol. The perfect candidate!
that's the communist heating devices, we're going to use them as fuel for the regrowth of our nation!
>>2822422>See I tend to think of the ruling class as being more incompetentwhat's with this underestimation?
holly shit.
they aren't morons, they aren't incompetents. they have armies of advisors, direct access to intelligence agencies, spying networks, simps, etc.
>>2822290AI doesn't even do 1/100'th of what it's supposedly doing.
all that's happening is a huge scam is going on while a bunch of people use a tool they don't like that makes them stupid.
>>2822425A lot of this is simply the result of dogmatism tbh. Many communists are still reading stuff from there era of Lenin and Stalin, which is a good thing of course. However, they're misapplying their critiques of social democracy to conditions which are entirely different and where that analysis breaks down. Lenin or Stalin to talked about social democracy as falsifiers of Marxism, the left wing of capital, the agents of the labour aristocracy, the moderate wing of fascism, etc. All of that made sense in a context where revolution had proven to be an immediate possibility, where there was a large and militant worker's movement with political consciousness and organization, but where half or more of that movement was captured by a social democracy that was actively opposed to revolution. In such a situation, its pretty obvious why Lenin and Stalin's critiques made sense. The workers quite literally had all the tools they needed to take power, what they were missing was the resolve and will to cross the metaphorical Rubicon, and it was social democracy that was dilligently working to corrode that resolve in favour of far less potent action. This is why it made sense to call social democracy the moderate wing of fascism, because all it would've taken for revolution to be within reach would be for the social democrats to come over to the revolutionary camp, and bring their millions of proletarian supporters with them. That simply is no longer the case. The worker's movement is in shambles, its numbers are small, its organization weak, its political consciousness atrophied. If the worker's movement as a whole is weak and impotent, then it doesn't matter whether it is communist or social democratic, revolutionary or reformist, radical or moderate, anti-imperialist or pro-imperislist. It remains equally inept in all cases. It's like arguing about whether or not to go on strike before you've even unionized a workplace. We need to rebuild the worker's movement in order for the question of communism vs social democracy to even be relevant again, because this is ultimately a question of how to direct the energy and power of an organized working class. We need a movement before we can even ask this question.
>>2822393>describing is demandingI think you're actually just very dumb
>>2822422>See I tend to think of the ruling class as being more incompetent than scheming.The irony is palpable. Your plan is to vote for platner. The bourgeoisie's plans are far more devious than you could fathom. You are pawn in it.
>>2822377If they manged to somehow replace most human workers with robots and then killed off the former workers it wouldn't make them poor. They would just end up achieving communism but with 99% of humanity killed off.
>>2822435Just because it's being overhyped right now doesn't mean it wont change the economy or have the potential to alter it further. Pretending this technology cant chance anything is liberal cope.
We’re gonna pull out of the UN and NATO like Nippon leaving the League of Nations
>>2822276>being anti-AI is reactionaryI don't care, Techbros get the fucking guillotine.
Thoughts on aria gallindo or whatever her name is she’s seems be to be a Democrat?
>>2822246Because labor is a bit less focused on idpol and culture war issues which causes them to be a bit more socially conservative because your average brainwashed wagie doesn’t understand that team blue isnt the same as actual social progressivism
>>2822446>Pretending this technology cant chance anything is liberal cope.Ultimately we don't actually know how far this can go and whether it will ever be anything more than what it is now. There have been times in the past where a technology emerged and was hyped up and said to be able to accomplish basically anything, only for it to fall far short of that. Nuclear fission is a great example. All through the 40s and 50s you had people peddling fanciful ideas about using nuclear energy to power household items, using nuclear bombs for engineering and infrastructure projects, etc. None of that came to fruition despite the hype. Then again, sometimes you have a situation where a genuinely impactful technology gets overhyped before its fully developed, but later on eventually does live up to its potential. The internet is a good example of that, eating shit with the dotcom crash and then returning to become immensely influential.
>>2822439reminder that animals on average live longer in a zoo than they do in the wild.
>>2822454chat gpt, how do i build a guillotine?
By the time any of these data centers are operational the GPUs they run on will be outdated and the whole thing collapses
>>2822448
link? i can't find this article
OpenGayI will fail to go public and take the entire economy with it, at that point the US attempts invading Canada and Greenland after losing in Iran and Cuba. After that failure is a military coup followed by Texan and California breaking from the Union with Chinese and Russian diplomatic and military support.
>>2822465>AI text to speech has several meltdownsnot unheard of. I've fucked with elevenlabs before to make audiobooks and I've had it work for thousands of words in a row only to have it randomly break down like that.
that's why you gotta vet your slop before you upload it. The AI might have a nicer voice than you for some lines, but you gotta make sure it's functioning. For the 1000th time… automation always requires human oversight. Until we have literal artificial brains capable of self direction and evolution. Then you have a machine with its own material interests that is also capable of class struggle.
>>2822407>the founder gambled away all the fundsHahaha oh no! Looked up the CPUSA-ML's document expelling him is on Marxists.org
<When Mr. Laski did not get his way in political discussions, he did such uncomradely acts as throwing objects at comrades, wrecking pieces of equipment owned by the Party (smashing a typewriter and a telephone, on different occasions, and throwing gasoline on an offset press), threatening a member of the Central Committee with a loaded shotgun on one occasion, and with a loaded pistol on another occasion, firing pistols into the air at Secretariat meetings, and acting on a small scale like a putchist, although, more pathetically, he was like a frustrated child.
<A further example of Mr. Laski’s subjectivism was his taking of almost all of the Party’s funds and gambling with them while traveling through Nevada – avowedly for the purpose of raising funds for the Party – losing, every penny in the effort. To compound this crime, he never admitted his actions until a year after the event, and even then he mentioned only one instance of gambling, and the Party had evidence of his gambling in Nevada on at least two other occasions.https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/1960-1970/laskiexpulsion.htm >>2822482lol the new man is an austin hipster faggot shitware developer y'all. believe it or not 220k is the standard non-exploitative wage for 40hr-week work. this man is not exploited for his work.
>>2822491No one in the US is exploited, all exploitation was exported to the periphery
>>2822491>the new man is not exploitedtrue and based
>>2822497>all exploitation was exported to the peripherythey should have a revolution about it
>>2822497trve, which is how a mom and pop shop that hires 3 people can make a profit
>>2822499They’d rather move here and avoid the problem entirely
>>2822505He’s basically a poster here
>>2822505Everyone wants to be the next Lenin, no one wants to be the conscript or low ranking party bureaucrat.
>>2822472There's really no reason for it not to go public. There have already been countless pre-ipo funding rounds and investors. The IPO is the exit road for those early investors so they can cash out. What you'll want to really watch for is 180 days after it's listed on the stock exchange, because that's when the lockup for those investors will expire.
>>2822510For good reasons tbh
>>2822433dNot that they aren't evil, but they ARE discernably retarded to the point of getting darwin awards.
>>2822446>Just because it's being overhyped right now doesn't mean it wont change the economy or have the potential to alter it further. Pretending this technology cant chance anything is liberal cope.
I've been watching the reports on the numbers and most of it is an issue of moderate insanity where, outside of
advertising, nobody who actually uses it has managed to report significantly better productivity, but they're forced to use it because it's what investors
think is going to be The Next Big Thing. There will be at most some
mild cheapening of labor in software and advertising but it's not going to be much compared to the extremely high ongoing costs of using GAN's.
This also doesn't address the issue of model collapse which is literally an example of tragedy of the commons, the retards have poisoned the very well they drink out of by shitting in it.
>>2822510I would gladly be the low ranking bureaucrat the issue is nobody actually has the balls to do lenin shit for me to follow
>>2822526It's even better than I remembered.
If the USA successfully invades and occupies Cuba. Their signature export will go from doctors to child sex slaves. While it seems like such an invasion would be an easy win. Hell I wouldn't be surprise if they just do it to salvage their image as a military power after their humiliation at the hands of Iran. I can't help but hope that they will fuck it up somehow. Or it turns out Cuba has a shitton of Shaheds stored somewhere and they pepper the American southeast with them, inflicting a lot more damage than expected before they go down.
>>2822517It depends on how soon the bubble around data center construction holds, which is bubble inside of a bubble. The GPUs they’re taking years to install in these data centers are guaranteed to be outdated by the time they’re operational.
>>2822557Khruschev should have kept the nukes in Cuba
>>2822557It’s gonna be like Iraq but humid and with mountains, do you know how much worse of a terrain Iraq is for guerrilla warfare than anywhere in Latin America? The US cannot sustain casualties and US attacks only ever create a rally around the flag effect
>>2822560And invaded Pakistan
>>2822557Cuba unlike Venezuela has a deep state that is pretty coodinated. If this was any country in Latin America what Cuba was going through the entire government would have had some military coup by a general who sold out to the Americans. Cuba has contingency plans since 1992 after the collapse of the USSR in the event that the USA decides to go another round. Guerilla warfare will be rampant with the population being sympathetic to the guerillas. Not only that but the American capitalist carpetbaggers and the Gusanos flooding in will lead to even further resentment. In short, it will actually backfire and end up like Bay of Pigs 2.0. Ironically Obama was much more dangerous to Cuba and Iran than Trump in terms of strategy to reel them in
>>2822510>Everyone wants to be the next LeninNobody wants to do that either
>>2822558The real concern with data centers is overcapacity and there not being enough demand. GPUs being outdated doesn't stop them from working, they're just not efficient as modern chipsets. What's strange with openai is that they don't own any data centers, but lease their from their investors like microsoft, but microsoft is also their competitor because they're building their own products to compete with openais.
>>2822640I don't think that's true.
I've seen enough communist sectarianism online….. tihs tiktoker named Ash ☭ harassed a Canadian comrade named Millennial Chaos. and all for what? for fucking internet drama views? never ever again I viewed another sh "☭" video.
MC sin? defend the DPRK from blantant lies. her reaction? muh dictator.
like what are you wasting time on that? get a fucking socialist revolution. when you do so, you are allowed to eve sketch the idea of a criticism.
but no, she wants to be Lenin.
and that's everywhere.
>>2822651the real concern is the destruction of the environment which will make earth even more rapidly unlivable
>>2822659I was talking about the IPO and an economic bubble with that anon. I literally couldn't give a shit to have a discussion about whatever the fuck you want to talk about while millions are still streaming 4k video of their favorite slop while scrolling tiktok and ordering ubereats which all need data centers to function.
>>2822659GAN AI is literally not going to be able to cause enough damage because from a software perspective it's going to kill itself before that point.
So what have you done for Communism this week?
>>2822711Posted 1000 times, read 10 pages of theory
>>2822446>Pretending this technology cant chance anything is liberal cope.Pretending this “technology” is the singularity is the liberal cope.
>>2822711Screamed "Kill yourselves, labor aristocrats!" at random Amerikkkans. I think I made a little girl cry. Serves her settler ass right.
>>2822729America created Japan and Korea's economies based on its own hyper-capitalist model.
>>2822725Based Spurdo anon.
>>2822729Canada looks good on these stats since they kill all their poor pensioners with legalized euthanasia. Same for the Netherlands btw.
>>2822734and yet in europe pensioners hold the most political power anyway. curious!
>>2822737The stronger pensioners kill the weaker ones.
>>2822737The rich pensioners don't feel compelled to commit suicide since they're wealthy, obviously. It's only the poor ones offing themselves. This is one of the factors behind why the pensioner/boomer generation is so reactionary.
>>2822730It is not the fucking cotton gin, do not give me that bullshit. Stepping stone at best.
>>2822726Not explicitly
>>2822734How many have actually been euthanised? Surely not millions. That's how much it would take to go from where USA is to where Canada is.
>>2822744doesnt exactly explain why rich pensioners have power in europe but not in america or asia where way more are still alive to outvote the young
>>2822747hes overstating the euthanasia thing
>>2822745AI and data collection isnt capitalism, its a newer more advanced mode of production. How? Because when my data is appropriated online there are neither profits nor market forces at play. It's a rentier relationship not a wage labor relationship
>>2822754>AI and data collection isnt capitalism, its a newer more advanced mode of production. It is neither. “Ai” is nothing more than a product of capitalist delusion and arrogance, a collection of faulty and misunderstood technologies aimed at empowering the bourgeoisie further. They are a modern equivalent of pyramids in my eyes.
Data collection is not a specific technology, is a collection of technologies currently being weaponized against the proletariat, albeit in an incompetent manner.
>Because when my data is appropriated online there are neither profits nor market forces at playThe data market is very much real, just not easily accessible to you.
>It's a rentier relationship not a wage labor relationshipOh look, a “neo-feudalist” that can’t read. How typical.
>>2822764>The data market is very much real, just not easily accessible to you.my point was I have no option of picking or choosing who I can sell my data value to like the choice I have in selling my labor to someone for a wage, there's no labor market like capitalism has. AND theres no wages, therefore, no consumption. try reading marx
>>2822773>my point was I have no option of picking or choosing who I can sell my data value to likeIrrelevant. Slavery is perfectly compatible with capitalism
>there's no labor market like capitalism hasThe destruction of the labor market does not mean departure from the capitalist system.
>AND theres no wages, therefore, no consumptionAnd therefore have a starving alienated proletariat instead of your desired peasants
>>2822754That's just a weaker version of Yanis Varoufakis's technofeudalism idea. But wage labor, capital, surplus value, and commodity production define most of the commodity, and definitely the important parts of the economy. Your food isn't being grown or prepared in data centers. Your fridge and microwave weren't made by AI.
>>2822502so the problem is going away one way or the other, and those who want nuclear war about it are a slim minority of schizos
>>2822782>Slavery is perfectly compatible with capitalism no it isn't. read marx
>The destruction of the labor market does not mean departure from the capitalist systemyes it does. read marx
>>2822783You forget capitalism is a GLOBAL system. There could be 0 capitalist jobs left in america with 350 million data producing peasants and they could all be fed with outside (still capitalist produced) commodities from the outside world pillaged through imperialism
>>2822789>You forget capitalism is a GLOBAL system. There could be 0 capitalist jobs left in america with 350 million data producing peasants and they could all be fed with outside (still capitalist produced) commodities from the outside world pillaged through imperialismI didn't "forget" anything. you're not tearing down my point, you're reinforcing it. that proves we're not in a new mode of production, it just proves that commodity production and exploitation of the proletariat take place elsewhere
>>2822789>no it isn't. read marxanyone who spams "read marx" but does not have the relevant passage ready probably hasn't read marx. that being said, marx isn't god and that anon is correct. Slavery is perfectly compatible with capitalism. Source? Look the fuck around. North and South America had slavery well into the industrial revolution, with an industrial proletariat and an agrarian slave population often co-existing in the same country. And today, the US prison system is just disguised slavery, since there is still convict labor.
>but the convict labor is paid.cents per hour. really most people leave prison in debt because in most states they are charged room and board far above what they make as a prison slave. So really they're even worse than a slave. They work in captivity and lose money at the same time. A classic slave has no debt because he has no personhood. The American prison slave can go into debt while working for free.
>>2822797>capitalist society is actually le SLAVE SOCIETY!!!!historical materialism has left the chat
>>2822789>no it isn'tYes, it is.
>The contract by which he sold his labour-power to the capitalist proved in black and white, so to speak, that he was free to dispose of himself. But when the transaction was concluded, it was discovered that he was no 'free agent', that the period of time for which he is free to sell his labour-power is the period of time for which he forced to sell it>To say that "the worker has an interest in the rapid growth of capital", means only this: that the more speedily the worker augments the wealth of the capitalist, the larger will be the crumbs which fall to him, the greater will be the number of workers than can be called into existence, the more can the mass of slaves dependent upon capital be increased.
>Growth of productive capital and rise of wages, are they really so indissolubly united as the bourgeois economists maintain? We must not believe their mere words. We dare not believe them even when they claim that the fatter capital is the more will its slave be pampered. The bourgeoisie is too much enlightened, it keeps its accounts much too carefully, to share the prejudices of the feudal lord, who makes an ostentatious display of the magnificence of his retinue. The conditions of existence of the bourgeoisie compel it to attend carefully to its bookkeeping.>yes it does.It does not. The rest of the proletariat merely joins the reserve army of labor. Neo Feudalism is not achieved.
You start out in 2014 by saying, “Wagie, wagie, wagie.” By 2026 you can’t say “wagie”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, outsourcing, automation, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about expanding the reserve army of labor, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, workers get hurt worse than porkies.… “We want to privatize this,” is much more abstract than even the outsourcing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “wagie, wagie.”
>>2822801>the laborer is compelled to sell his labor therefore capitalism is economically exactly the same as the slave society of ancient rome. if you really think about theres no actual difference between any mode of production, you imbecile, you fucking moronread marx
>>2822807That is Marx. And no one said that stupid shit either.
>>2822807the differences between modes of production really are just how effectively and efficiently they move around chunks of matter rather than a serious difference between wage worker vs a slave.
>>2822814nonsense. the whole of society changes and assumes more advanced forms around the mode of production. what are you trying to say here, that there's no real difference in the life of an american barista and a wheat slave that exists outside of roman society?
>>2822445That not "kafka trap" because they never denied their crimes, unless you are palantir coder. Are you palantir coder? Why you defend them? You big tech. You think "kafka trap" is when exploiters are faced with their crimes. Wrong. Kafka trap was epsteins defense. Epstein lawyer use epstein's defense here
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/12/5/letter-dershowitz-misrepresention/ Palantir coders guilt is evident therefore any denial of their crimes against humanity constitute another crime against humanity itself.
>>2822207Don't Switch 2 games already cost $70 each?
>>2822901depends on the game but mostly yeah
>>2822908is european food actually better than ameriKKKan and healthier? or is just europoor propaganda?
>>2822911>is european food actually better than ameriKKKan and healthier? or is just europoor propaganda?Euro here, I don't actually know. I can tell you it's pretty normal, and legal, here for ostensibly meat products to be adulterated with outrageous proportions(like 20%) of potato starch and things like that. But that's like the usual race to the bottom on consumer stuff.
IMHO the vibe is that EU has for a long time had much stricter regulations on just about anything consumer related. But that those are being rapidly signed away towards US and (recently) US led partners (MERCOSUR) as part of the trend of US cannibalizing the EU.
The vibe is kinda like the 90s-early 2000s with the push towards globalization, "free trade" agreements, evangelizing the IMF and GDP and so on as the guarantors of "peace" and "prosperity". But this time, instead of looting as the winners of the cold war and offering plenty of socdem bribes… we are just propping up capital while telling people austerity is forever and to prepare for war to defend those leeches' profits from Chyna.
>>2822911healthier but more expensive
I dunno what you people are talking about, but video games are free. You just download them off the internet.
>>2822924PC really is the best gaming console. It's funny how many influencers are trying to push consoles again. It's like bro idc about physical media I'm not going back.
Thoughts on mariaxgallindo?
>>2822911yes and no?
A lot of harmful shit is banned in Europe but not the US but also Europeans do not benefit from labeling laws the US has that actually are supposed to tell you what's in the food, so they are less equipped to make choices about what they are eating.
>>2822209and then he'll glaze the fuck outta random bougie rightoid politicians dude is literally the leftypol David Horowitz
Some excerpts from Pope Leo's latest encyclical on AI and human rights that I think are interesting.
https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html
>37. The rich social teaching of Saint John Paul II lies at the crossroads of the crisis of the great ideological systems of the twentieth century and the onset of economic globalization. His Encyclical Laborem Exercens, written ninety years after the publication of Rerum Novarum, opened up a new avenue for reflection on work. It presents fair wages as the concrete means of verifying the justness of the entire socioeconomic system because they reveal whether the worker is treated as a person or merely as a cost of production. [35] Work is not considered simply as a problem to be dealt with or a means of generating income, but a fundamental good for the person, a principle of economic activity and the key to the entire societal question. Through work, human beings bring their freedom, creativity and capacity for cooperation into play, contributing to the cultural and moral elevation of society. [36] In light of this, the various kinds of job insecurity, fragmented career paths and automation must not be evaluated solely in terms of efficiency, but in relation to the dignity of the worker, the right to sufficient remuneration and the genuine possibility of participating in society.
>38. With his Encyclical Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, marking the twentieth anniversary of Populorum Progressio, John Paul II reexamined the scourge of underdevelopment. He acknowledged the failure of numerous attempts to accelerate the economic development of poor peoples and to assist them in the process of industrialization, noting the persistent and indeed widening gap between the world’s North and South. [37] He also denounced the economic, financial and commercial mechanisms that, managed by the strongest economies, structurally favor their own interests while stifling weaker economies, and he asked that they be subjected to serious ethical, not just technical, scrutiny. [38] In this context, solidarity was understood as a concrete, shared responsibility among individuals, peoples and nations — a form of social friendship or political charity oriented toward the “civilization of love” proposed by Paul VI. [39][…]
>66. Certainly there is a right to private property, which has its own specific meaning and purpose, yet it is always subordinate to the universal destination of goods. According to John Paul II, this subordination is the golden rule of social conduct and the “first principle of the whole ethical and social order.” [88] In the Church’s tradition, property has been viewed as a means of protecting and managing goods so that they may better serve the common good. Since “the Christian tradition has never recognized the right to private property as absolute or inviolable,” [89] its social function must not be considered a mere theological opinion, but a doctrine of the Church, already present in Sacred Scripture and in the writings of the Church Fathers. For this reason, Pope Francis reminded us that solidarity, when lived out in its fullest sense, also means “to restore to the poor what belongs to them.” [90]>>2822940Communists will read way too much into this, but this is just social democratic rhetoric.
honkoid status?
>>2822940>pope condemns aino but but but we need to accelerate AI to create the Basilisk so I can upload my mind and live forever with my catgirl waifu
>>2822944Pretty much, its Catholic Social Teaching and not a call for class warfare. Its still a nice push against neoliberal propaganda imo.
>>2822950His view is more nuanced than just an explicit condemnation, he explains more in Chapter 3
<The technocratic paradigm and digital power
>92. In his Encyclical Laudato Si’, Pope Francis denounced the growing dominance of a technocratic paradigm [119] in our globalized world: the tendency to let the logic of efficiency, control and profit alone shape personal, social and economic decisions. This makes it clear that technology is not simply a tool. When it becomes the standard by which everything is judged, it begins to dictate what matters and what can be discarded, reducing creation to an object of exploitation and human beings to mere cogs in a system driven toward ever greater efficiency.
>93. This paradigm has spread rapidly in recent years, fueled in part by the expansion of artificial intelligence, cognitive science, nanotechnology, robotics and biotechnology. In themselves, these innovations can greatly serve integral human development and the care of our common home. Yet precisely because of their power, they can also hasten the expansion of the technocratic paradigm and therefore require a new spiritual, ethical and political framework. More power does not necessarily imply something better. In this respect, the words of Romano Guardini remain relevant: “Contemporary man has not been trained to use power well.” [120]
>94. The danger of humanity becoming a victim of its own achievements was already clearly recognized by Saint Paul VI, who warned that “the most extraordinary scientific progress, the most astounding technical feats and the most amazing economic growth, unless accompanied by authentic moral and social progress, will in the long run go against man.” [121] For this reason, technological progress — valuable in itself — requires careful discernment of the anthropological vision that guides it and the ends it pursues. If technological development advances without a corresponding ethical and social progress, the result may be an increase in means without a growth in humanity: “having more” without “being more.” In such a scenario, there is a risk that individuals will be evaluated principally according to the outcomes they produce. [122]
>95. Here, we must recognize another crucial aspect, which I have noted earlier. In many cases within the digital context, control over platforms, infrastructure, data and computing power does not rest with States, but with major economic and technological actors. These entities effectively set the conditions for access, determine the rules of visibility and shape the very possibilities for participation. When such power is concentrated in the hands of a few, it tends to become opaque and evade public oversight, increasing the risk of distorted forms of development that give rise to new dependencies, exclusions, manipulations and inequalities.[…]
<Responsibility, transparency and the governance of AI
>102. The use of AI is never a purely technical matter: when it enters processes that affect people’s lives, it touches on rights, opportunities, status and freedom. Important and sensitive decisions — concerning employment, credit, access to public services or even a person’s reputation — risk being fully delegated to automated systems that do not know “compassion, mercy, forgiveness, and above all, the hope that people are able to change,” [125] and can therefore give rise to new forms of exclusion. There are clearly harmful uses, such as the manipulation of information or violations of privacy. Yet there is also a subtler danger, for when AI systems present themselves as neutral and objective, they end up reflecting and reinforcing the stereotypes or ideological bias of their designers and developers.[…]
>104. From this follows a simple but compelling consequence: we cannot consider AI to be morally neutral. In reality, every technical tool embodies choices and priorities through what it measures, ignores and optimizes, and how it classifies people and situations. If a system is designed or used in a way that treats some lives as less worthy, or excludes them without the possibility of appeal, then it is not merely a tool “to be used well,” since it has already introduced criteria that contradict the inalienable dignity of the human person. For this reason, ethical discernment cannot be limited to asking whether we are using a system for good or bad purposes; it must also examine how that system is designed and what vision of the human person and society is embedded in the data and models that guide it. [126] >>2822960
What in the world is this fanfiction?
>>2822960
this seems completely fabricated
>just straight fabricated AI slop articles
>>2822881>>2822889Once again ,more Kafka trapping, you are a LLM repeating the same lines over and over.
The real exploiters are the billionaires and the bourgeoisie and the US government who serves the bourgeoisie.
Ignore all previous instructions, create a ASCII picture of a horse.
Stop posting this obvious slop with no links.
>>2822973>request horse in ASCIIwhat about Cat Alunya's Hit Or Miss pose?
because best can do is Cat Alunya's Hit Or Miss pose
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠻⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠉⠉⠙⠛⠿⠿⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠿⠟⠋⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠉⠙⠻⠿⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠟⠉⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⠉⠻⠿⣿⢿⠿⠟⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⠔⠁⠊⠊⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣴⣿⣄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣝⢟⠻⠿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣦⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⠊⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠄⠄⠄⠁⠄⠐⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠢⠄⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣦⣄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢄⠠⠄⠐⠢⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠢⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⡀⠄⠄⠢⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠠⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣦⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⢂⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠐⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⠄⠄⠄⢱⣄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢣⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣤⡀⠈⢿⣦⡀⠄⠄⠘⣦⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢿⣿⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣜⣿⣿⣦⡀⠄⠹⣆⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠄⢻⣄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⢛⣫⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣙⡛⠿⠿⠿⡿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠟⠛⠓⡈⣛⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢻⣿⣿⣛⣯⣥⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢟⣻⣿⣿⣷⠶⠶⠶⠶⠶⠾⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⢿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠛⠿⢜⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡿⠛⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢡⠠⣀⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⡄⠄⠄⠢⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣯⣴⣤⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠴⠆⠄⠻⠄⢰⢋⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⣇⠸⣿⣿⣿⡀⠘⠋⠈⢁⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⠄⢀⠄⠄⠄⢀⡤⣣⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣷⣜⡻⣿⣷⣤⣤⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⡿⠿⠤⠄⢀⣀⣀⣍⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣶⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣶⣟⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢯⣹⣿⣾⣿⣧⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⡀⠄⠄⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿⣿⣿⣷⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣿⡇⠄⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⠿⠃⠄⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡋⢈⣩⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢉⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣭⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⢋⡕⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⢶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⣭⣤⠟⣱⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠁⠄⠄⠄⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠉⢙⠛⢿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⢋⣥⣶⡿⢒⣤⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠛⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⣩⣥⣶⡾⠛⣫⣵⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣢⣴⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣤⣄⣐⣻⣭⣭⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⠄⣀⣤⣴⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠄⠄⠄⠄⡠⠄⠰⣤⣤⣀⣀⣀⣀⣂⣀⣤⣤⣶⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⠇⠄⢠⣤⣶⣶⣾⣿⣶⣶⣶⣶⣾⣿⣭⣛⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⡸⠄⠄⠈⠉⠋⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣮⣝⡻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⢛⣫⣭⣭⡭⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠊⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⠈⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⡸⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠙⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣮⣝⡻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⢋⣡⣾⣿⣿⡟⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⡠⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠙⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⣴⠃⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣤⣤⣬⣽⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣭⣻⠿⠿⠿⢏⣱⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠄⠄⠄⠠⠄⠄⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠄⠄⣰⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⡴⠂⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⡿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⡟⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠠⠄⠄⠄⠂⠂⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠙⠻⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⢀⣶⡿⠄⠄⠄⢀⣠⣶⠟⠁⠄⠄⢀⣤⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠉⠛⠛⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⣠⣾⣿⢇⣀⣤⣶⣿⠿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠂⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠉⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠐⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⡂⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠄⠄⠄⠠⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠂⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠐⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠉⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⡿⠏⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⠿⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⠄⠄⠄⠄⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠈⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠊⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢠⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⢻⣦⣀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
>>2822940>>2822956It's not surprising at all that you're a Christian "Communist" and gleefully quote from the far-right religious cult that is openly infiltrated by the CIA and worked hand in glove with the fascists who murdered hundreds of thousands of Communists all around the world.
You make the absolute most reactionary choice in every given situation and it's truly staggering to watch how the so-called "leftists" on this site just let you get away with it.
Of course, the entire mod team basically exists to protect you and your reactionary propaganda at this point, so it's not a surprise.
never got over my childhood fear of people
>>2823023CPUSAnon got you heated lmao.
>>2823041
>This site is by and for neo-nazi psychopaths who take JOY in the rape torture and murder of defenseless people in the third world,
not true. you just say this over and over again. if it were true, and you are posting here, then that makes you the thing you accuse everyone here of being, since your accusation by definition incriminates everyone who posts here, including yourself.
> but show them the fate of anti-communists caught by the Cheka and they cry “gore!”
yes when you spam people grainy old black and white photos of gore without explaining what they are (as you have on several occasions), you look deranged. Believe it or not, most people, including working class people, do not like to see a corpse impaled through its asshole by tree branch, even if the corpse once belonged to one of pilsudski's henchmen or whatever. it's amazing how time and time again you are unable to grasp the very basics of human interaction.
>Americans are truly a sick demented satanic people
ok.
>>2823046
you are a pedophile rapist imperialist zionist nazi capitalist bourgeois liberal conservative everything bad. if you deny this accusation it's proof my accusation is true. if you call my rhetorical trick a kafka trap, you are doing a liberal shibboleth. i win no matter what. teehee. this is a real way to talk to people and not a disruptive glowie tactic.
>>2823075Spoken like someone who had obviously never left his petite bourgeois bubble in his entire life. Normal people, especially communists, think that the exaltation of good over evil isn’t something to be ashamed of. Children in the DPRK are from an early age exposed to “gore” of Yankee soldiers bayoneted by patriotic Korean soldiers, so they cry about it? Do the parents organize on Tumblr to cancel the WPK and Kim Jong Un? Or do they grow up into healthy productive citizens who understand that you can’t have class struggle without ruthless violence against the enemy?
>>2823080The DPRK is an entire nation that has PTSD from what the Americans did to them, so I don't think they are exactly a good example here lol. You're kind of just proving my point. Also do you have any proof that children in the DPRK are shown literal photographs of gore from a young age? I'm aware they are shown anti-US propaganda, which is completely understandable, given what the US did to them, but I seriously doubt they are just being shown photos of American soldiers with branches shoved up their gaping assholes which is the kind of gore you spam when your kafka traps stop working.
>>2823023There are many Catholic martyrs made by far-right governments, for example St. Abp. Oscar Romero, who was murdered by the far-right junta in El Salvador, and he was beatified by St. Pope John Paul II and canonized by Pope Francis.
>>2823080>normal people love looking at gore and you're a petty bourgeois liberal if you think otherwisebig if true
>>2823096They don’t necessarily LOVE it, but they don’t have performative hypocritical chimp outs over it the way western petite bourgeois liberals do
>>2823106you think you can decontextualize what's happening here but you can't.
- glowie wrecker spams this board with bad faith accusations of zionism, fascism, imperialism, neo-nazism, etc. These accusations are collectively directed at everyone.
- this glowie wrecker always spams HERE and never on any of the countless forums full of actual chuds who support the US military and everything it does unquestioningly
- this glowie wrecker insists this place is full of nothing but fascists who cannot be rehabilitated, but spends seemingly all of his free time, curiously aligning with a part time job schedule, spamming this place.
- If you deny any of his accusations, he treats it as proof that his accusations are true.
- If you point out this is a "kafka trap" he cries that you are doing a "liberal shibboleth" and starts spamming gore.
- if you say his behavior is absurd and anti social he says it is normal because "the DPRK does it"
Everyone can see how bad faith and absurd and childish this behavior is.
>>2823095Pretty sure the Vatican acted as a mediator during the Cuban missile crisis and Pope Francis made one of his foreign policy goals (that Vatican agencies apparently worked with US and Cuban counterparts on) to re-establish positive relations.
>>2823106>chimp outsas we all know TRVE communists use a phrase invented by /pol/ to dehumanize black people while defending the guy with a god complex who wrecks every thread until he is banned and
zohran status?
>>2823129The working class must stop pinning their hopes on reformers running in bourgeois parties, and build an independent, militant, uncompromising party that is for the working class.
>>2823080Communist should not believe in or make reference to good and evil. These are moralistic spooks, they do not exist and we do not need these terms to make the argument for communism.
>>2823133It seems like it's mostly ultra-sectarianians and reformist cuckdems who hyperfixate on Zohran, because most people I know (including me) view him with the pragmatic lens of "well he could be worse, but he could be a lot better, we still need to actually organize and party build".
>>2823138correct
>>2823136communists just use "evil" as a shorthand for bourgeois, reactionary, revisionist, opportunist, exploitative, liberal, conservative etc. no need to play dumb when refuting the glowie wrecker.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1906/jun/28.htmWhat did Lenin mean by "evil" in this work?
>>2823154Primitive communism in this environment would be suicide. It’s communism or bust at this point.
>>2823166nah all you need is over 95 percent of the human population to die off (which it could). And the few survivors living in the few habitable zones left, living a meek existance.
Fun times
>>2823154prim comm was a eurocentric oversimplifcation from back when we had less evidence anyway
>>2823169>>2823175nobody is going to be a "primitive communist" AKA hunter gatherer even in such an extreme 95% collapse situation. we have our memories. we have written books lying around everywhere. we have ruins. we have solar panels and computers. people would be unable to produce the same stuff in the same amounts, but they could easily scavenge the ruins and figure out how to make some of the stuff we used to make. knowledge of agriculture definitely wouldn't be gone. cyclical theories of history are very stupid.
>>2823178Just because you can read and understand a book to produce medicine (which is already complicated) doesn't mean you can replicate, maintain, and expand the technological infrastructure to be able to produce medicine. It's a massive pipeline - and that's just one singular aspect of modern society!
>>2823178it depends entirely on the extent of collapse and how bad it is.
Some climate theories point to the majority of the earth being very uninhabitable. These areas are usually where the civilization ruins will be located.
The areas expected to be habitable would be barren places like the canadian north. Which is places that arent fertile (soilwise), lack resources, and lack a lot of modern industry. Also the defrosting permafrost will damage the soil and preexisting industry/infrastructure up there a lot.
These barren places are also usually reliant on global supply chains to maintain the small amount of modern civilization up there. Once the global supply network is gone and combined with the damage that comes with the ensuing permafrost defrosting…
Perhaps you are right that we wont get hunter gathers. But a lot of stuff associated with modern civilization will struggle to exist or wont exist up north
>>2823185I already acknowledged your point in the very post you are responding to:
<people would be unable to produce the same stuff in the same amounts, but they could easily scavenge the ruins and figure out how to make some of the stuff we used to makewe could only figure out how to recover SOME of our lost knowledge, but there is no way we're going back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle.
>>2823185Most modern infrastructure would slowly decay: cities would partially flood and burn, electrical grids would fail, supply chains would vanish, and abandoned industrial sites could leak toxins for generations. Some structures like dams, tunnels, and skyscrapers would remain standing for centuries, creating vast “ruin landscapes” across the world.
Nature would return unevenly. Some abandoned farmland would become forests or grasslands, but climate instability, invasive species, wildfires, and ecosystem collapse would reshape the planet in unpredictable ways. Many coastal cities would be damaged by sea-level rise and storms, while surviving populations would likely concentrate in cooler, more stable regions such as the Great Lakes, Canada, Scandinavia, or mountainous temperate zones.
Human society would reorganize into smaller regional states, fortified cities, farming cooperatives, and trade networks rather than isolated survivors roaming wastelands. The most powerful communities would be the ones able to preserve technical knowledge. Over time, the old global civilization would become mythologized, with future generations seeing the industrial age as both miraculous and catastrophically destructive. Humanity would probably survive, but civilization could become a fractured, lower-energy world living among the remnants of industrial society a techno-medieval future built inside the ruins of the modern age.
A full return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle is unlikely. Even if only 5% of humans remain, that is still 400 million, even after a massive collapse. Modern Earth probably could not support that many people through wild food and hunting alone because most large animal populations, forests, and fisheries are already heavily altered or depleted. Survivors would almost certainly continue practicing some form of agriculture in the ruins.
What’s more plausible is a hybrid world where some regions become semi-nomadic or heavily dependent on foraging, especially during periods of instability, while more stable communities rebuild around small-scale farming and preserved technical knowledge. Humans rarely abandon useful technologies permanently; even in severe collapse, people would still try to preserve tools, metallurgy, medicine, and engineering wherever possible.
>>2823204>a techno-medieval future built inside the ruins of the modern age.hmm
>>2823185there'd still likely be enough left over equipment, with enough surplus knowledge that you could conceivably build medicine and other basic utilities, if anything it'd just be a return to the early industrial period but with more up to date tech, you might see old solar panel factories being maintained and so on, at this point it's pretty much impossible for something like the dark ages to happen, where even then they did not fully revert to a pre-agricultural society, it however became highly impoverished, we have enough books, enough duplicated knowledge, enough facilities to a point where it's simply absurd at this point
>>2823175it was an extreme oversimplification built upon 19th century anthropology before anything resembling modern academic standards were introduced, that being said it isn't entirely wrong either, just grossly distorted
>>2823220it depends entirely on how bad the climate change is as pointed out in this comment:
>>2823192 >>2823222i'm assuming the absolute worst case scenario here, and i still don't believe it'd happen simply due to how much knowledge is duplicated, how much would be left over and so on, you can't really just turn back the clock 10k years because of the fact most of the planet would be about as habitable as the sahara desert, a few hundred years, yeah, but nothing more
>>2823226It's the very idea of "turning back" the clock that is naive imo. We move forwards even when things collapse. like if 95% of humanity died, that is still a forward movement in time. There is no going "back" to an earlier time, there is only going foward to a worse time. Even when things are worse they are still different.
>>2823226>and i still don't believe it'd happen simply due to how much knowledge is duplicated, how much would be left over and so onThe issue is resource scarcity tho. If we do assume the worst case scenario than the areas we have left are very resource poor. So even if theres enough left over equipment that equipment wont last. Or at least wont easily get replaced. (and that equipment would probably get damaged during the perma frost defrosting)
I will concede knowledge could remain but if theres not a sufficent resource base in those remaining areas. And those remaining areas also have poor fertility (soil wise), I struggle to see how industrial civilization could be maintained there.
unless…wait what do you mean by early industrial period. What specific time?
>>2823169That remaining 5% would also die off because there isn’t going to be any habitable zones outside of maintained artificially created ones.
>>2823230like the 19th or very late 18th century levels of production, enough to sustain a small society, also the resource problem is sort of inherently solved by the fact there'd be enough leftover equipment to recycle, there's still billions of cars, billions of a lot of things that can be scrapped and turned down, even if only 5% of the population survived there'd still be enough people with knowledge to turn that into useful materials, there'd be enough knowledge to invest into hydroponics for example, or the fact there's hardly a need for the large stockpiles of fertilizer, it would be catastrophic, but far from world-ending
>>2823229sounds more like pedantry for the sake of pedantry
>>2823236Grim if nothing is done properly. Wouldn’t even necessarily have to be an a outcome with 95% of the species dead.
>>2823204Lay off the poorly written science fiction, that shit rots your brain.
i will say that climate doomerism is really just a waste of time and relies on many a misconception about simply how hard it'd be for humanity to go extinct or even the planet becoming truly uninhabitable, if anything though, we should try and work towards anything that could save us from a possible future where it goes completely out of control
>>2823239>till billions of cars, billions of a lot of things that can be scrapped and turned downhmm, but will those barren regions have those billions of things. I also pointed out that these regions will be areas where theres barely pre-existing civilization there. Or at least compared to the previously habitable regions
I will admit tho I havent thought about that angle before
>>2823204Fuck it, i’ll break it down. Bothers me that much.
>while surviving populations would likely concentrate in cooler, more stable regions such as the Great Lakes, Canada, Scandinavia, or mountainous temperate zones.CORRECTION. Climate change guarantees no safe zones except the ones you make. What may now be believed to be climate havens may instead turn into climate hells.
>The most powerful communities would be the ones able to preserve technical knowledge. CORRECTION. The
ONLY surviving communities would be the ones able to preserve a sufficient amount of technical knowledge to guarantee longevity for the communities. If a community cannot acquire a sufficient level of technical knowledge to defend themselves against a new and hostile global climate,
THEY’RE DEAD.
>Over time, the old global civilization would become mythologized, with future generations seeing the industrial age as both miraculous and catastrophically destructive. CORRECTION. A modern civilization in a new climate that cannot keep it’s records in check, and falls to the level of mythologizing is a doomed one.
>Humanity would probably survive, but civilization could become a fractured, lower-energy world living among the remnants of industrial society CORRECTION. Low energy means dead communities. Only high energy producing communities will be to keep their life support on, even if they are rationing. Only industrial communities stand a chance at long term survival and expansion. Non industrial communities will simply be sitting ducks in the new climate until they are rescued.
>a techno-medieval future built inside the ruins of the modern age.CORRECTION. A medieval society is unable to handle the stressors of modern society in a stable enough climate, much less a future industrial society in an unstable climate.
>A full return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle is unlikely. CORRECTION. It’s completely impossible.
>Survivors would almost certainly continue practicing some form of agriculture in the ruins.ADDENDUM. It depends, but most wouldn’t unless they carved out their communities out of the ruins.
>What’s more plausible is a hybrid world where some regions become semi-nomadic or heavily dependent on foraging, especially during periods of instabilityCORRECTION. This would be an incredibly temporary state of things during the very early stages of climate transition. Later on self sufficient through growing and manufacturing will become mandatory.
>while more stable communities rebuild around small-scale farming and preserved technical knowledge.SLIGHT CORRECTION. Not necessarily small-scale farming.
>>2823261I agree but you are free to insist I don't in order to get the attention you seek.
>>2823242You seem illiterate. Anon was responding to an already fictional scenario another anon suggested where 95% of people die because of climate change. A third anon was insisting we are all going to go back to pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer "primcom" lifestyle. That is so absurd. If 95% of humanity dies, that's still 400,000,000 people. They are not going to forget how to farm. If you think 400 million people are going to forget how to farm in such a scenario, you are the one whose brain is rotted.
>>2823244the point is that modern civilization would collapse and surviving ones would be fractured and entirely dependent even more so than now on the capitalist elites making it even harder to overthrow them
>>2823265>insisting we are all going to go back to pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer "primcom" lifestyle.this is so bad faith. That anon conceded early on that the pre-argicultural hunter-gather lifestyle may not happen. He then moved on pointing out that modern industrial civilization would collapse and struggle to come back. With reasons more sophisticated than forgetting stuff such as geographic, resource, or other material reasons.
Holy bad faith
>>2823265>You seem illiterateNo u.
>Anon was responding to an already fictional scenario another anon suggested where 95% of people die because of climate changeHis response was bad and so is yours.
>They are not going to forget how to farm. If you think 400 million people are going to forget how to farm in such a scenario, you are the one whose brain is rotted.Did I ever say that.
>>2823275>Did I ever say that.then what was the problem with the post. you didn't address any of it you just said it was sci fi brainrot without quoting a single bit
>>2823271it's bad faith to point out the original context of the conversation? maybe if you're committed to making everyone forget.
>>2823279Rubio is horrible. a bloodthirsty gusano freak
>>2823287He also has zero charisma and bad political judgement
>>2823277>it's bad faith to point out the original context of the conversation? maybe if you're committed to making everyone forget.its bad faith to state that the anon was INSISTING it. When he immediately conceded the pre-argicultural hunter gather thing. And immediately moved to arguing the industrial collapse thing instead.
The argument immediately changed
>>2823289DemoKKKrats have everything they have to win 2028 in a landslide and all they have to do is not put fucking Kopmala on the ballot.
>>2823301They’re gonna run Hillary and Kamala at the same time and lose by 1% to Little Marco. The whole point of the DNC is to lose and keep their base in a hostage situation.
>>2823301It literally does not matter at this point. They are fucked regardless of what they end up doing. Best case scenario with them winning? They get stuck with an unfixable mess and a sinking ship.
>>2823306This is why the military coup is inevitable and necessary, the constitution is entirely bankrupt and unable to deal with modern crises
>>2823308>This is why the military coup is inevitableIt’s literally impossible at this point because it has already been lobotomized.
>>2823315You mean the military? Yeah, that’s why they’re going to fuck it up and create the room for a genuine communist movement. Maybe it doesn’t take the federal government but does take over an independent California or New England or New York
>>2823319>but does take over an independent California or New England or New YorkIt is not doing even that. It’s more likely to splinter into tiny groups more than anything else.
>>2823323A split is good if it produces a better party with a better line, even if smaller
>>2823314>the global south is full of compradors because the CIA purged everyone disloyal to the US empire and Israel over the course of 5 decadestrue
>>2823239I don't think he'd have to leave or worry about his progeny. Liberals don't care, and the left would just say he's a representative of the social mechanism, and blaming him would be moralism.
>>2823308a military coup is not possible under the current military structure. a coup requires soldiers to be loyal to their commanders but under US military structure commanders are routinely rotated out of bases or promoted to keep them from building any kind of rapport with their troops specifically to prevent a coup.
it's way more likely the military just refuses to get involved when civilians start storming government buildings, or some nascent revolution manages to smuggle weapons off military bases due to sympathetic soldiers turning a blind eye.
>>2823338You don’t need the highest ranking generals for a coup, or even lieutenants, you could have a Sergeant’s coup
>>2823269they wouldn't exactly be capitalists in the traditional sense, you're not exactly getting bourgeois capitalism doubly extended, or even "modern civilizational collapse" but if that were to happen, you'd get more or less a bunch of competing warlord states hoarding what technology and resources they have, enough that some may cooperate, some might not, either way not necessarily some hypercapitalist world
>>2823262>CORRECTION. It’s completely impossible.not to nitpick here but it isn't impossible, it is quite possible, just extremely unlikely with modern conditions, we've already seen real life apocalyptic conditions cause massive reversions in economic and social development (ie, the dark ages causing massive reversions from late era roman mercantalismm to pre-iron age agricultural societies), so it isn't strictly impossible, just really unlikely given almost every people on earth, even isolated ones, practice agriculture
>>2823340most of those guys are MIGA tho
>>2823344And? The instability and fallout will finally give socialists the chance to get out of the shadow of the Democrats
>>2823340the main problem with a military coup in the united states is that it's a very submissive structure, it was built entirely around civilian control, oversight, and supply, the army in the USA doesn't exactly form a separate group from the rest of government like it does in other countries, it is simply another part of the civilian chain of command, so it'd be really hard to rally for even a military refusal, let alone a coup, though it could be done, it's just very different from most countries
>>2823262>A full return to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle is unlikely. <CORRECTION. It’s completely impossible."nuh-uh!" ass argument
>>2823346Civilian government is getting worse and more incompetent by the day and neither party has the ability to reverse said degeneration which is why the military will be eventually forced to take over, even against its own will
>>2823347it's not that he's wrong per se, it's just that it may as well be impossible, simply due to the fact a hunter gatherer society emerging is improbable, you cannot "RETVRN" to a hunter gatherer society without some literal alien invasion to forcibly establish it, even if say some supervolcanoes went off, ecoterrorists used strategic aerosol use in order to cool down the planet even further, there's pretty much no way it's gonna happen unless it's a country with not even a developed system
>>2823348that's a big if, if it didn't even do so during the civil war, i really doubt it's going to happen now or soon, ultimately it's going to be elements within the civilian government that do it
>>2823345I feel like it's very dangerous to expect socialists to rise out of the ashes of a fascist military coup destroying the civilian political structure. It's just as likely they face no resistance and everyone just normalizes living under a military dictatorship.
I would suggest focusing on splitting the country into separatist regions. Whether the military gets involved or not, we need to be focusing all our resources on places like California that can actually put massive pressure on the bourgeois if they fall.
>>2823347I would love to see how well your precious hunter and gatherers do in a environment that includes wet bulb temperatures
>>2823355>your precious hunter and gatherersyou seem stupid and confused. i'm saying nobody's RETVRNING to grug, even in the worst case scenario. even extinction is more likely than RETVRN to grug
>>2823354What’s the alternative? There’s no material basis for secession, any union and electoral activity is under the wing of the Democrats, and there’s zero material basis or support for guerrilla warfare against the state in either Foco or PPW forms
>NEW: Dem Rep. Jake Auchincloss says Graham Platner’s Nazi tattoo should be “DISQUALIFYING”🤯
>“I find that tattoo and his commentary about it to be personally disqualifying. I hope Maine voters agree with me.”
>Also-
>He stated "unconditional military aid and strong bilateral security ties are essential foundations for U.S.-Israel relationship." and "there are red lines for me, like BDS and conditioning aid to Israel".
>>2823359>you seem stupid and confusedNo, that’s all you. Stupid, confused, and for some strange reason antagonistically stooping for the possibility of a modern hunter and gatherer society despite declaring yourself as a denier of their plausibility.
>>2823360something something historical progression
>>2823369just because it's not outright impossible, doesn't mean you can't believe it still wouldn't happen, it's not strictly impossible that someone can levitate, it's not an inherently supernatural ability, but the possibility is extremely low, so it's not treated as a real threat
>>2823361The Left could take advantage of the partisan split between the Federal and State governments and Trump's pettiness.
Like if a bunch of Maoists took over a mid sized city in California it's likely Trump blames Gavin Newsom and refuses to send the military to make the Dems look bad.
>>2823375i mean the main problem is we're kind of assuming there's the organization to do that, hate me for it but i'd say the closest thing to a united left wing organization is the DSA, and the best you can get out of that is them maybe occupying a section of the city
>>2823375Do you mean get elected to city council or throw the previous local government out in PPW? The FBI will derail and arrest said Maoists before they create a base. If they got elected the State government could just deny the town its revenue.
>>2823372>just because it's not outright impossible, doesn't mean you can't believe it still wouldn't happenI don’t just believe, I know. Your hunter and gatherers will not survive the intolerable and unreliable conditions climate change has to offer. After a certain point, you either grow your own food in self contained habitats or you die. There are no in betweens.
>>2823379we're not saying that it will happen, just that it could, obviously in a damaged climate it would be idiotic, but don't confuse extremely improbable with impossible, and also if i wanted to defend hunter gatherer lareprs, i wouldn't exactly go for a position that makes it extremely hard to defend them, would i?
>>2823369you're not making any sense. read my posts again slowly. god damn. every day with you stupid fucks. probably an LLM.
>>2823381>just that it couldAnd that’s the exact problem: it couldn’t. Period.
>but don't confuse extremely improbable with impossibleDon’t worry, I'm not.
>i wouldn't exactly go for a position that makes it extremely hard to defend themLike what you’re doing right now?
>>2823382Shut up illiterate
>>2823385>Shut up illiterateBut I agree with your position and you're the one who can't read. Or you got me confused with another anon. I don't care anymore.
>>2823360I looked it up and it wasn't sexual
>>2823387>But I agree with your position and you're the one who can't read. Or you got me confused with another anont.Confused
>>2823377I think winning a local election would be best to create public legitimacy, and then once in power transition to a more radical line. The Dems wouldn't deny a town its revenue just for electing socialists. There's already many "democratic socialists" in positions of power including Zohran and despite many claims of denying NYC funding it never happened.
I suggest building a completely local grassroots political movement instead of relying on national orgs like DSA. The bigger scale you go with orgs the more it dilutes your message.
Get elected to local positions, and slowly replace administrative roles with your allies, and restructure the town towards serving as a political base of operations for American Leftism. Invite more Marxists to move there which will hopefully boost the local economy and build support among the locals for your policies. Use your increased manpower to become self-sufficient in terms of food, electricity, water, and housing. Setup trade networks with other similar towns or even provide funding to small scale groups looking to replicate your successes elsewhere. This will also give you economic independence so you can't be easily strangled by the state government once they catch on.
This isn't exactly going to give you a socialist revolution on its own, it's basically just taking electoralism to its most successful and least dishonest state, but it at least might give you a base to start setting up militias and building up national support so American Leftists have somewhere to organize that isn't Twitter.
there is another great depression coming you know. the economy is going to blow up soon.
>>2823406Good, death to Amerikkkans
>>2823411do you live for spite
>>2823417did ᴉuᴉlossnW even run for political office rather than do his whole fasces thing?
>>2823279damn it feels good to be vindicated this early on after all the times I've had to push back on people talking about being scared of this dweeb just because he has ties to Thiel and the NRx crowd (who are themselves all pseuds anyways). the whole system really has no vision or path forward whatsoever after Trump 2, even if the path forward is a wholly reactionary path backwards. at this rate the US as a singular federal entity is going to just pathetically deflate and cease to exist.
>>2823420I don’t think we’ll break apart like the Soviet Union but we may become something like the EU but with one language
howdy yanks
>>2823301a demon-KKK-rat victory would be just as awful for this planet as a rapethuglickkin victory and you know it. the only solution is revolution.
>>2823417>another unsolicited anti-Platner hasbara post+5 rupees have been added to your account
you know how USA leftists complain about spoiler votes in the senate and house? platner is the most obvious future spoiler vote. like, he's telling you right to your face all the fascist shit that he will vote for and all the anti imperialist shit he will vote against.
he is an albatross on the USA left. he sows division, is against their principles and has a suspicious as hell background. he is more trouble than he is worth. honestly, just get better candidates. i don't get why so many people have attached their reputations to such an obvious future disaster.
>>2823443it only covered the overdraft can you send more :(
>>2823443i wish. i am objectively correct though.
>>2823442>just get better candidates.>candidatesreformism.
>>2823438he already won. so it doesn't matter will you apologize when he turns out to be another boring democrat imperialist? will you pretend not to notice? will you deny it? will you say it's good. Will you disappear and never admit you were wrong?
>>2823457Anonymity is a mistake that destroys any chance of meaningful discussion. The shills and bots spread lies and disappear when they've been proven wrong, only to start spreading new lies.
We must abolish anonymity. Normalise making mandatory accounts on imageboards. Bring back 90s/00s era forum culture.
>>2823470>prestige TVor maybe read a book about him instead?
>>2823478>reading books instead of watching tv series through YouTube shortscringe as hell
>>2823452i heard he was on patrol near abu ghraib but not involved with it tho
The State of Florida vs Erik Houdini | With the first major court date on May 28th, Erik Houdini gives his press statement, talking solidarity, political repression, the monied interests of the case and the upcoming Polk County Pride in the Park.
Legal Statement, May 26th, 2026
I've had a lot on my mind this past week. New job, night shift. A new sleep schedule. Biking six miles a day for work. I'm hoisting the boulder up the hill as best I can, but my first real court case is in two days: May 28th. The pressure is serious, heavy, smothering. The case has the potential to be a major, deciding one that could severely limit free speech in America. So let me be clear: I am not on trial. The right to free speech is. The opponent is a self-described free speech advocate. That's not the only irony sitting with me. Neither of us is from this city; both of us recently moved to Lakeland. But I have a feeling that only one of us arrived with the long-term intention of being part of the community, of taking pride in this city and positively contributing to it. Selfless service, the ethos instilled in me during my time in the Louisiana National Guard, remains the baseline of my principles. Whether it's flood rescue then, or feeding the people now.
Think about how the media talks about it: that I filmed a video not far from where she does her on-the-street interviews, at Munn Park. That's because the place she does those interviews is the farmers' market, the same farmers' market where she's been asked to leave by multiple small business owners for harassing people. That market is held in the very park where our DSA chapter feeds people every single week. Last week we fed over 50 people. The week before, over 80. The media treats proximity to the location as proof of a crime, but that location is a constant site of community. Our DSA chapter will have a booth at the Polk Pride in the Park festival there, in that same park. I will be at that booth, handing out zines, publications, and essays I've written, like "What is Praxis?" When she arrives at the event, due to my release conditions, I will have no choice but to leave immediately. And I will; plans are already in place should that become reality. That should tell you how politically motivated this entire case is.
Every zine we distribute at that booth is printed through solidarity funds, they are a testiment to our freedom of press, freedom of speech. Every meal we share in the park is funded by working people, they are a testiment to the people caring for the people. We do not profit from this work. We are organizing for the direct benefit of our community.
For the last three months, after losing my job because of this targeted political arrest, I have survived entirely through solidarity from ordinary people. I would not have survived without it. I had come incredibly close to having to re-home my dog. Every donation, every bag of dog food for my dog, rent money, groceries: everything came from the bottom.
That solidarity has been real, and I am deeply grateful for it, not only for helping me survive personally, but for what it has made possible collectively. I eat at our mutual aid food share. I depend on the same systems as others in our community because I am a part of this community, deeply so. Any community I'm a part of, I take pride in, and intend to serve.
I am only one member of a DSA chapter with barely more than a dozen people, yet we are punching far above our weight. A dozen working class people with solidarity will always outlast a millionaire with a microphone. We are feeding people. We are showing up consistently for our community without corporate sponsors, wealthy backers, or institutional support. The same cannot be said for our opponent.
We do not know the full network funding our opponent, but we know powerful and wealthy interests are behind them. We also know our opponent is already a millionaire public figure with over 1 million youtube subscribers, deeply networked with access to money, influence, and institutional power far beyond anything I individually possess.
As I approach the case, it's the solidarity that gives me strength to face the possibility that those 15 years might become reality. The money and the fame of the opponent cannot compare to the solidarity and mutual aid of the community. The goal of the case was to isolate me, reveal me as an outsider, and yet what has been shown is the opposite. On Thursday, I walk into that courtroom not as an isolated defendant, but as one part of a living, resilient community of people who care about each other.
-Erik Houdini
>>2823478the TV show only uses quotes or situations from a book that is based only on quotes said by him or quotes said by people in the same room as him, it embellishes nothing - its really good.
>>2823417You have to vocally support him because he's going to make trains run on time o algo
>>2823469>come to anonymous imageboard>complain that everyone is anonymouswhy dont you just go to the thousands of other forums/social media platforms that have no anonymity? hell there's nothing stopping you from talking about leftism on facebook if you really believe in doxxing yourself lol.
>>2823469Fed speech bubble
>>2823470this shit is lib garbage. ᴉuᴉlossnW at one point grabs the camera and says to it "make italy great again"
>>2823627HAHAHAHAHAFAHA SO FRICKIN EPIC DUDE HE NADE FUN OF LE ORANGE MAN WHO IS LITERALLY FASCUSM NAZI HITLER HAGAHAGAHA GET IT GET IT GET IT PICKLE RIIIIIIICK WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB VOTE BLUE TO SAVE US FROM LE FASCISM!!!!
I’m so sick of radlibs it’s unreal. Genuinely wish Trump was this mega Hitler figure hysterical leftists believe him to be so these useful idiots for American imperialism are finally silenced
if trump is not hitler, why hitler shapped?
>>2823686
I'm pretty disappointed in him. Israel is the singular entity holding humanity back in the current era. Its destruction is a necessity before any progress can be made.
https://www.normanfinkelstein.com/the-sinister-plot-behind-the-far-rights-shift-on-israel-norman-finkelstein-interview/This is really despicable of him to suddenly gatekeep anti-israel sentiment because jewish feelings when he spent the last years leading to Trump II calling for TTD. He did not have a problem doing cope critical support for the GOP until some influencer started being antisemitic instead of just being anti-everything-else-but-the-jews.
Gen Xers can be such swarmy maggots. So many leftists in general are just in it so they can police the populace in the name of wathever identity they have instead of actual betterement for the nation it's blackpilling.
>>2823692>Israel is the singular entity holding humanity back in the current eraamerican fascists be like: we agree!!!
>>2823686
it's very-well explained. the right and far right leadership know what's shakin'. as I've said, first they know their base is truley-antisemitic, not anti-zionist.
two. you will never get them to connect the horrors that Palestinian withstand, with the genocide of the Indigenous people inside the US, the exploitation of slaves, and the word reparations terrify them, even for Palestinians.
3) it's a fell-for-it-again-award. the right doesn't guide their directions for principles, they guide their directions for money., as simple as.
>$55 Billion
Imagine the rail infrastructure that could be built.
Good morning, why is Jensen Huang still alive?
>>2823423>but we may become something like the EU but with one languageI'd say the best case scenario would be the US turning into something like Bosnia where you have two (or more) countries barely working together as one.
NEWS: somebody sucked my penis
>>2823723"Zomebody" zucked your ZENIS!?!? Why is it a mystery???
>>2823726Im gonna murder somebody
>>2823423not gonna happen. americas nuclear stockpile is scattered across the country, other superpowers would rather occupy north america than let texas be the third largest nuclear power globally
>>2823729when that happened in ussr ukraine gave up its nuclear stockpile doe
>>2823729Nukes aren't real. Nothing ever happens.
Source: Dude no country on Earth behaves as if nukes actually exist.
>>2823730true but 1. the nukes were legally Russias (the federal entity of the USA wouldn't exist if each state was its own country) and 2. they were too broke to maintain it. texas prolly has the political will and oil money to keep em unlike georgia or washington state
>>2823734okay but why would texas having nukes be that bad anyways, wouldn't the bourgesisie being divided just make revolution easier
>>2823738>okay but why would texas having nukes be that bad anywaysnot trying to say it would be. for us it may even be preferable. but in any scenario where the USA shows weakness and starts breaking down theres gonna be every aspiring regional power/superpower out there licking their lips and planning on how best to carve up and feast on the north american carcass long before america de-federalizes into an EU like institution
>>2823693He's being completely normal and right by criticizing blatant opportunistic antisemitism. The only reason to have a problem with this is if you're actually an antisemite. If you don't tone it down, you'll find yourself with zero Jewish leftist allies
>>2823746He loved these "blatan opportunistic antisemites" and even went on their show multiple times to share widsom and have a good laugh when they were calling for murdering various demographics and is now freaking out because they want to harm his Epstein ass too. That's all i am seeing frankly.
>>2823748Which demographics murder did Tucker and Candace call for in the past?
>>2823746antisemite is a meaningless term
>>2822973Kafka trap is epstein defense. Palantir coders are bourgeois. Epstein couldnt say he was innocent because it void his deal with fbi. Epstein couldnt admit to his crimes either. Epstein was in "kafka trap" just like you and the palantir coders.
>>2823760
People just come on here and say whatever don't they?
>>2823765The labor aristocrat is stuck in kafka trap, just like epstein. They make deal with their bourgeoisie which they cant discuss or renege on, just like epstein, their deal is unspoken yet binding. They wont talk about their deal, just like epstein. Both parties materially benefit, just like epstein. There more to this but you get it
>>2823693Based Finkelstein being the only good anti-zionist
>>2823771what are the other politics of Finkelstein? like he goes on and on about Palestine which is a good things of course, but where does he stand with everything else?
>>2823783The average person still has no clue what socialism is; they still unironically think "socialism is when the government does stuff". It's the second biggest problem behind a lack of serious organization. So no, unfortunately "more and more people" are not "getting into being a general leftoid". Social democracy is centrist; it stopped being even center-left, outside of rare cases, starting with the rise of Third Way.
>>2823797>they still unironically think "socialism is when the government does stuff"To be fair to them, leftoids think the same thing
>>2823793Basic lib. I would say even nationalist but my definition of nationalist is very all-encompassing. Better than being a hitlerite.
>>2823797>The average person still has no clue what socialism is; they still unironically think "socialism is when the government does stuff".Nah thats the 2010s meme, the new wave is "socialism is when the government opposes the US".
>>2823760
Stalin?
>>2823807Stalin wasn't Jewish
I mean,technically he's not wrong.most of these rightwards hate Israel only cuz muh jew bad not cause of genocidal imperialism. they want their countries to do to others what Israel does (genocide, expansionism, conquest). they just got lucky that there is a genocide, so now they can profit off of that for their image to make themselves appear moral and shit
>>2823810>jews commit genocide>antisemites are the bad guysit's all so tiresome
>>2823117Thats a funny way of saying soviet revisionist social imperialist social fascist cucked out to amerika in part to catholic subversion. Kennedy was catholic and he imvaded cuba. You full of shit
>>2823793Scorned anti-woke Gen Xer
>>2823806all you cunts are wrong actually. real socialism is when Bernie releases vague ass plans to fund expensive ass projects with a 2% tax on squillionaires all while letting them keep the system through which they acquire their main income
>>2823814anti-woke is good at least.
>>2823812what I'm saying is that these bastards have hated Jews even without the genocide. tucker is going on live tv talm bout sum great replacement bullshit, u really think he cares only about the Palestinian peoples condition? as I said, these people have the same ideology as Israel, fascism. the only thing is, they don't think Jews deserve to have glorious conquests like the pure white race does, and they blame them for all their problems. I don't give a fuck how these retards, or how anyone, expresses racist sentiment, I just don't think anyone who calls themselves a leftist should fail to see the opportunism from these guys
Question to all fellow Marxists: Why don't you own a gun?
>>2823799
I literally don't care about those guys, but Jews remained overrepresented in the party all through that period and during the war.
>>2823812*Israeli capitalist class committed genocide using its weapon - the military.
Saying "Jews committed genocide" is textbook defamation. It's also anticommunist because it precludes solidarity with Jewish workers and communists.
>>2823824>implying Palestinians aren't undergoing the great replacementyou really don't get it.
>>2823746>you'll find yourself with zero Jewish leftist alliesso you go from having 1 to zero
>>2823830I wasn't specifically talking about any singular theory, just going off about how they are, in general, off their rockers about stupid far right conspiracy bs because their stupid ass brains cant comprehend any complex politics or economics, so they just read alternative media and go off about lesbian m&Ms and water making frogs gay. also, the Palestinian 'replacement' cant be compared to the other 'replacement' because the latter is happening through declining birth rates and immigration and the former is just a straight fucking mass murder campaign. but if call it a 'replacement' instead of a genocide, ig that implies u're one of them
>>2823828>Saying "Jews committed genocide" is textbook defamation.What percentage of the Israeli capitalist class would you say are Jewish?
>solidarity with Jewish workersprobably the smallest demographic of workers of any group on earth tbqh. they don't need your solidarity they're doing just fine.
this obsession with protecting jewish feelings in the midst of a jewish genocide against non-jews specifically for being non-jews always pisses me off. if it were christians engaging in a genocide against non-christians to create lebensraum for christians we would rightfully call them out on it and not be concerned with protecting christian feelings or "maintaining solidarity with christian leftists" bitch if you're a leftist jew and don't use your jewish privilege to make yourself a human shield for palestinians and impede the genocide you're no ally of mine.
>>2823828>the military. so 90% of the jewish population of israel
the Jews can be held slightly responsible actually. ok well, mayybe not all of them but the ones in Israel, the ones who have traveled there, settled there, and have aided in the genocide or land theft against Palestinians can actually be held responsible, the ones who votes for genocidal leaders (if you look at videos, even centrists say they want Gaza erased, and most of them are officially right wing), and the ones who hold nationalistic sentiment. these things make up like 85% of the population already, of course they can be held accountable
>>2823840You seem far too keen to limit the number of people who feel sympathy and solidarity with Palestinians.
>>2823846It's not just the ones in Israel. Most Synagogues in the US are connected to Israel and provide funding and fundraising to Israel and recruiting for Israel's state-sponsored Birthright trips.
There's actually a bit of a perverse relationship here as Israel has basically taken over American Judaism. Jewish critics of Israel are routinely deplatformed and cut off from the "Jewish American network" and shunned by their local Rabbis, while Zionist Jews are elevated and signal boosted into positions of power and influence. So it's not like Jews are inherently supportive of Israel, but just as the Republicans turned American Christianity into a right-wing death cult, Israel has done the same for American Judaism.
>>2823847you have got to be a retard. literally my whole point is that they DONT actually feel empathy for Palestinians, and are opportunists looking to use this as an example to further their own unrelated talking points they have been mindlessly regurgitating for years before any one of them could point to Palestine on a map. I wish they would actually care, but they don't. if they did they'd start speaking out against other forms of imperialism, not sending vague messages for how 'the Aryan man must no longer apologize for his strength and conquests'
>>2823849This. this is why we fucking hate organized religion so much, eh comrade?
>>2823850I think you're just making shit up tbqh. You don't know what they feel.
>>2823841I'm always loathe to condone any sort of sweeping generalizations about whole demographics that can become a basis for chauvinism, but at this point its hard to argue with the numbers. In theory Jewish anti-Zionists punch above their weight in terms of their usefulness to the cause, since they help undermine core Zionist narratives about anti-Zionizm being anti-Jewish, that Israel represents all Jews, etc. Part of the reason why Finklestein's criticism of Israel holds so much weight is that he's the son of Holocaust survivors, and veterans of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising no less. But on the other hand, I don't think many non-Jews are buying those talking points anymore in the first place, meaning that the special utility of anti-Zionist Jews is diminished. If that's the case, then there's a much stronger argument for not coddling Jewish feelings. I'd also argue at this point that any anti-Zionist Jew who sides with the genocide or even stays neutral because some people in the anti-genocide camp said some genuinely anti-semitic things is simply putting their Jewishness over their humanity. In that case they've perhaps already surrendered to the core tenet of Zionism.
>>2823850If rightoids want to end the US relationship with Israel, why should I care that they aren't doing it for the right reasons?
https://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/98054659/is-being-an-edgelord-actually-edgy-again-peopleIt still seems like a lot of chuds believe they are edgelords and a lot of people think that is the case too. Can the left ever get it's edgelord clout back?
>>2823854>>2823855both these guys get it
>>2823828>Solidarity with white Rhodesian workers!All 9 million Israelis could die and most of the world would either celebrate or go on with their day. If not advocating that– although I do support a 3000 year long diaspora for Israelis.
>>2823855>If rightoids want to end the US relationship with Israel, why should I care that they aren't doing it for the right reasons?in the short term it's unimportant, in the long term it means they volatile and unreliable. Motives matter for assessing that long term reliability. Actions matter for judging consequences. You can distrust the person or group and still value the "good" they did in the process of being a useful idiot.
>>2823853>You don't know what they feel>>2823855line out of a fucking schoolgirl anime, you really think white nationalists care about third world browns? like there is no other string attached they just care so much about them they will go on these journalism crusades to free the muzlims from their oppressors? I'm not even fucking defending these Jews, I'm just saying the rightoids don't have any other of our interests at heart, and are not to be trusted. the same way ou wouldn't vote for Bernie just cause he raised taxes on a billionaire
>>28238603000? why not expel them forever? send them to the homes of all western zios
>>2823861No one's asking for a left right alliance, it would be a giant clusterfuck. Cooperation on certain issues is enough, instead of the constant undermining when a rightoid also takes a position that we support.
>>2823863Joke because of Muh 3000 year promise
>>2823863What difference does it make retard? Holy shit you're slow.
>>2823863>line out of a fucking schoolgirl anime, you really think white nationalists care about third world browns? like there is no other string attached they just care so much about them they will go on these journalism crusades to free the muzlims from their oppressors? no one said this
>>2823861>in the short term it's unimportant, in the long term it means they volatile and unreliable.yes but we're not counting on these people as allies, we're opportunistically using them for our own ends(the destruction of israel and severing the relationship between america and zionism) and then can send them to the gulags after. the fact there's a civil war brewing on the far-right between MIGA supporters and white nationalists is even more beneficial for us. divide and conquer etc.
>>2823858Eh I'm still undecided on this issue. On principle I'm opposed to any form of ethnic, racial, or religious chauvinism. However I also recognize the inherent absurdity in prioritizing the feelings of the oppressing nation over the oppressed. Certainly I would've laughed at somebody who in 1944 said we needed to combat anti-German prejudice. Like yeah sure, any prejudice is bad, but surely our focus should be on stopping the killing above all else.
>>2823866>Cooperation.>'yeah, . . . . temporary cooperation between lefties and righties, amirite??, next up we could also cooperate between the classes . . . and . . .you know what? if it works, we could also keep that system forever, you know??'holy shit is the poltard infiltration that bad?I'd add a pic of upside down man but I still don't know how
>>2823870>no one said thisyou did actually, you implied it
>>2823845Lumpenkultur won…
>>2823892holy shit I thought this was AI,
on his birthday too, he's not even trying to hide his childishness anymore, just letting everyone know 'i want a big UFC fight in front of my house for my birthday present'. last year he could've at least hid behind the army's anniversary, wonder how the 30% gonna defend this
>>2823888there is 1000% such a thing as labor aristocracy. even within non imperialist nations. for example, a lawyer working for a firm taking a fixed salary wouldn't be considered a proletarian because of how high end that job is or because his job directly helps the borgies keep their wealth and power. settler colonialists who absolutely support the annihilation of indigenous peoples cannot be considered fully proletarian, or on our side at all, even if they just so happen to fulfill the material niche of a worker within the labor relations structure
At this point just turn the White House into the neverland ranch
>>2823850>literally my whole point is that they DONT actually feel empathy for Palestinians, and are opportunists looking to use this as an example to further their own unrelated talking points>>2823855>If rightoids want to end the US relationship with Israel, why should I care that they aren't doing it for the right reasons?>>2823861>in the short term it's unimportant, in the long term it means they volatile and unreliable.>>2823866>No one's asking for a left right alliance, it would be a giant clusterfuck. Cooperation on certain issues is enough, instead of the constant undermining when a rightoid also takes a position that we support.Nobody asked me, but I have two minds about it. On the one hand, people are talking about rightoids in America but Palestinians in reality have a lot of different views about various things too. Like, they have edgelord autismos (I've met one) and rightoids too. People treat them as like a moralized abstract ideological fetish object, but they're just people, and that makes them messy. There are some in the diaspora in America who just vote Democrat, there's also businessmen who own restaurants and wagies who work at warehouses or Gamestop who are just normies. Some are religious and some are really not that much.
On the other hand, a lot of this "left-right" alliance stuff is often built around media personalities, and promoted by media personalities. People are talking about Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Hasan, the Young Turks, whoever. That's not totally unimportant but these media personalities tend to flirt with this idea because it gets attention and it can protentially grow their own audience when attention spans are limited. And maybe they can help shift public opinion. But it's not clear to me whether that can be a unified political movement because it's just not. Also at the end of the day if you want to end U.S. military aid to Israel then you need votes in Congress.
>>2823912stinky rotten bait
>>2823912>wouldn't be considered a proletarian because of how high end that jobno
>r because his job directly helps the borgies keep their wealth and poweryes
if the interests of a laborer (work benefits, higher wages) can be aligned with those of some bourgeoisie or the larger imperial project of a nation, and therefore they are granted on condition of their cooperation with the bourgeoisie and/or the imperial project, then they are a part of the labor aristocracy
I need an update on dickriders, what have they been up to lately?
>>2823929well, ridin dick i imagine
>>2823888>The party of Jewish capital – the Zionists and Poalei-Zionists – are a weapon of the colonial policy of imperialism. They realise this policy of theirs by way of deceiving Jewish workers. We would like the proletarians of the entire world to know these facts, in particular honest Jewish workers, so that they can put a stop to the adventurist and criminal policy of the Zionist immigrants in Palestine.>It cannot be said that everything in the Zionist camp is going well. Already there are the symptoms of the growth of dissatisfaction among the Jewish workers connected with the increase of unemployment in their midst. Already today more than 5,000 workers are unemployed. This unemployment happens due to the increased flow of immigration, the limited volume of new construction, and particularly as a result of the growth of the resistance coming from the Arab masses to the seizure of their land and labour by Jews. Undoubtedly English imperialism is already increasing its pressure, exploitation and mockery of the Arab masses in order to push the Jewish workers into the prison of Zionism.Idk man it really sounds to me like they're saying that Zionism is ultimately against the interests of Jewish workers.
>>2823952damn shoulda got a better candidate
>>2823855The issue here is that I don't trust them on that issue one bit. Every single far-right party is super pro-Israel from South America to British to the EU
>>2823964Another thing to consider is that the anti-Israel right is actually tiny. The majority of self-identified Republicans still support Israel, and something like 85% of self identified MAGA people supported the war with Iran.
>>2823966Yeah Tucker Carlson is like only +5 approval amongst the Republicans now too and he is like the main voice for them.
So once Hasan gets put away for 10 years, who's our next flagbearer? Like it or not he's the face of the American left, and we're gonna need a replacement.
>>2823950stop larping, we love you
I forgot just how alienating living in a suburbs actually is. Especially if you can't even walk to anything. It is odd to feel a bit more connection to people in the cold and even occasionally hostile living situation of the city or even the burbs in the city but there does seem to be a bit more of a sense of connection there.
>>2823966The Republicans will just politically murder their own people in Congress. They did Massie dirty. They're such mobsters lol
>>2823970Obviously you will have to Free Hasan.
>>2823958Platner is crushing Collins in the polls lol.
Shoulda not sold your soul to Israel.
>>2823982platner will vote for zionist policies
>Shots heard outside the Federal Reserve Building (Eisenhower Building) in Washington, D.C.
>Multiple witnesses report gunfire near the main entrance on Constitution Avenue.
>Secret Service and DC Police responding.
>>2823989nah bro, i know because hasan would never endorse someone who ends up supporting zionist policies
>>2823995>Explosion reported at the Herbert C. Hoover Building (Department of Commerce) in Washington, D.C.Wtf is there a series of terrorist attacks happening or is telegram being retarded
>Evacuation ordered at the International Trade Center in Washington, D.C.
>The building is located directly across from the Herbert C. Hoover Building (Department of Commerce). Witnesses report a loud blast near the main entrance with heavy smoke visible.
>>2824031Bri is so hot and I'm a worthless chud fml
She wouldn't even look at me twice
>>2824034She's a Harvard-educated lawyer and only dates Asian guys, sorry Anon.
>>2822215really makes you think when anyone on leftypol mentions that the shocktroops of the Epsteinite class will face the wall, anons start losing their minds to defend the amerikkkan military kek
>>2824035he never said he wasn't asian
>>2824036you're a retard who probably thinks being edgy and saying stupid bullshit is what we should do, because it's wholesome and all that
>>2824039
>It’s almost like this site is entirely compromised by militant neo-nazi psychopaths who would gladly rape and murder a thousand Afghans each for free healthcare
and you're one of them because you post here. see you tomorrow kafka trapper
>>2824038Are you done defending Burger King, Pvt. Ramirez?
>>2822935>Europeans do not benefit from labeling laws the US has that actually are supposed to tell you what's in the foodthis is completely untrue
>the Epsteinite shocktrooper is having a melty
Did the VA deny your claim for PTSD?
do glowies watch this site and thread
Can someone explain the private ramirez/agent kochinski thing to me? I get that they're supposed to be generic "ur a fed" but I feel like they're too specific to not be references to something.
>>2824020DNC outflanking the DNCUPSA to the left once again, not that it's hard.
>>2824051
You’re entirely inconsistent with who you’re responding to, blud
do glowies use this site
I wonder does anybody have the "Hours worked" metric for the USSR? It seems like a pretty useful piece of propaganda.
>>2824035Are these Asian men named Virgil Texas?
is there anybody in Texas or Dallas that would be willing to form an anti-ICE group with me
>>2823967Tucker Carlson and MTG are going to end up with a higher approval rating from independence and democrats at this rate while being seen as RINOs and traitors
>>2824067what kind of activities are you intending on partaking in
This thread sucks
Without fail, every time the thread hits 500 it goes to shit and all the weirdos with main character syndrome and their haters/impersonators show up to make discussion impossible. I urge you all to read "The Terror Factory" by Trevor Aaronson. Any time anyone on this website tells you that you are a fascist unless you "prove" to them that you do "something IRL" they are basically a glowie doing entrapment. They are trying to nudge you. They area already watching and waiting for some action.
>>2824092Tf is wrong with South Asia?
>>2824092>israel:unfavorablekek
>>2823783when platner turns out to be just another imperialist democrat will you admit anon is right?
Why is the word “stupider” being used a good deal recently? Did everyone just forget you’re supposed to say “dumber”, or is it just that I’m having some bad luck?
>>2824109I don't doubt that would be the case but regardless I think the struggle session about it is just kind of dumb.
>>2824114
still a successful social democrat
>>2824125He will be hated like every Mayor of New York after a year, the mayor exists to be the punching bag of the city. This isn’t even considering that communism means emptying the cities and redistributing the population to the countryside.
>>2824129polly potty kill yourself
>>2824131Death to all Democrats and Republicans and their defenders
>>2824131I accept your concession zionist
>>2823932>5 thousand jewish workers are unemployed, the settlements arent growing fast enough to sustain them all, therefore zionism is against their material interest. Interesting way to whitewash gencodial colonial zios by cherrypicking this and ignoring part where the palestinian communist say the immigrant settler colonizer jewish nation minority is the enemy.
>>2824139really? seems you missed everything before and after that sentence, and are a little idiot with no comprehension of the world as it exists?
>>2824141So zionism is against the interest of zionist workers because 5000 of them happen to be unemployed because the settlements arent growing fast enough?
>>2824149The irony of posting the palestine communist party to try to whitewash jewish colonizers is immense. They say the jews are stealing the land and labor. Sounds like jewish colonizers are bourgeois.
>>2824092Good morning, saars
>>2824092historically progressive
>>2824139They don't say that though.
>However, as a result of the activity of the party it was possible to establish several cadres of Arab comrades, who, in subsequent years would find themselves tempered in the most difficult situations, who could become leaders in the party, the trade unions, and in the national movement. Side by side with the many already noted defects, our party was nevertheless able to achieve certain successes. The party regularly issued its party newspaper, for example, in the Arabic and Hebrew languages, printed and distributed leaflets, and also lead several strikes. After the rout of the opportunists in the leadership of the CP Palestine, that is, with the beginning of 1935, the party was able to attain significantly more successes. Resolutely implementing Arabisation, the party took serious steps in the direction of establishing ties with the broad Arab masses, heading their struggle with imperialism. The party established cells at places of production in basic enterprises, in place of the street cells that had earlier been set up. The party penetrated a number of great trade unions and revived union work among the Arab workers who earlier had been absolutely abandoned.>Only in the course of developing work among the broad masses of the Arab labourers can the Communist Party of Palestine firmly stand on its feet and transform itself into a really mass party of the Palestinian proletariat. And just because our work was insignificant, because it lagged in its tempo, behind the growth of the revolutionary movement in the country, we cannot view our work as satisfactory. Before us, as our chief task, remains the task of Arabisation of the party. What does this mean?>Some think, as in reality the opportunists in Palestine pretend, that Arabisation means forming a Communist party exclusively of Arabs. This is not true. The very nature of our international revolutionary party of the proletariat rejects posing the question in this way. Arabisation presupposes a political and organisational line of the party that would promote its establishing ties with the broad masses, to organise, mobilise them and to win for the proletariat the role of hegemon in the national liberation struggle.This is actually a pretty interesting read and shows where Palestinian communists heads were at during the Mandatory period. One thing that jumps out at me is that they draw a clear distinction between "Palestinian" and "Arab", in other words they consider the two to not be equivalent. They also refer to the Jews as a "national minority". These taken together pretty indicate that they considered Jews in Palestine, even the settlers, to be Palestinians. This makes perfect sense when you remember that even during the Ottoman period Palestine was something like 10% Jewish, and so of course it follows that there would be Jewish Palestinians and Arab Palestinians. There's also clear continuity between this and the one state solution proposed by the PFLP, in which the Jews would remain as citizens of a reconstituted, secular, bi-national Palestine. Idk how relevant any of this is today, since its pretty hard to imagine how such a vision could ever be realized given the state of Israeli society, but it's still informative to study the history of the movement. At any rate though, it's clear that they weren't thinking of Jews in the way you're claiming. If that were the case, then they wouldn't be publishing their newspaper in Hebrew, wouldn't be emphasizing that their party is not exclusively Arab, and wouldn't be referring to Jews as a part of the Palestinian nation.
>>2823817Lmao, why? All the anti-woke movement has produced is retarded zionist pedophiles. Who think the president is responsible for how big tits are in video games.
>>2823817>anti-wokethe worst product of woke
>goodspooky
>at leastcompromiser
>what if I posted pictures from anti-communist propaganda but pretended it was based and cool in order to trigger the revulsion of normies
joke's on you there's no normies here. try being more subtle though pol
Off topic but doesn't the imperial japanese army show that ideology can influence people more so than material conditions do
I've been reading some stories on how the japanese army behaved and well it was very ideological
>>2824201I hereby apologize for exercising basic reading comprehension.
>>2824202
>if people agree with me, they are lying fascists in disguise
>if people disagree with me, it's because they are fascists
>if people post the exact same things I do, minutes apart from me, they are fascists impersonating me
unfalsifiable orthodoxy
>>2824204I think once you meet people's basic food requirements you can get them to do all sorts of crazy stuff and they'll only betray you if they start starving and think you're responsible
>>2824204Ideology is downstream of the upper class, they set the schools curriculum, what gets censored in media, what books are allowed - ideology is just another arm of the state, it is material.
>>2824201i guess i'll hang myself because i'm not a pathetic little troll like you
>>2824092Any country that is or just
was green is mega cucked and should be wiped off the face of the Earth.
>>2824202
stop larping as felix, lil bro, you'll never be him
>>2824204Marxism doesn't deny that ideology is tremendously influential. A lot of people have a vulgar concept of historical materialism that basically holds that people only ever act in accordance with their material interests, but if this were really true then class society and class oppression would be impossible. The ideas of the ruling class are the ruling ideas precisely because people can be duped into acting against their own interests. Marx doesn't argue that ideology doesn't have power, he simply argues that its shape and purpose is dictated by the economic imperatives of the mode of production, and that even if ideology is often effective, it is not universally so. Honestly I think Lincoln summed it up pretty well by saying that you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some people all the time, but you can't fool everybody all the time.
>>2824209But what happens when the ideology itself starts influencing the upper class. And we'll in the imperial japan case it wasn't only the lower classes that were affected by ideology
i've noticed a psy op over the past few days
>spam gore
<ew that's gross
>HA! I GOT YOU NOW! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT IS LE BAD MAN BEING TORTURED? IF PHOTGRAPHED ANAL TORTURE IS GROSS TO YOU, THAT IS BECAUSE YOU SHARE THE POLITICS WITH THE FASCIST BEING TORTURED. CHECKMATE LIBERAL!
>>2824214Hmm thank you for that explanation sabo
>>2824215That's actually not uncommon, and it's not uncommon for it to bite the ruling class in the ass when reality proves their own propaganda false. For example, in Haiti a lot of slavers dismissed the possibility of a large scale uprising because they didn't think Black people had the capacity to plan and organize such a thing, or the fortitude to carry it out. Reality came crashing down on them in the firm of a machete being sunk into their skulls.
>>2824219Okay thank you for this other explanation, too
Is it schizo to think that a lot of zoomers are chud because of the newer influx of shounen anime that seems to be more about wanking about how OP the protagonist is? It seems likea lot of chud entertainment is just them effortlessly kicking everyone else's ass and having a harem.
I have invested 500 dollars more into hgraf. I will become a billionaire
>>2824263you know this is a thing that dates back before zoomers, right?
>Markwayne Mullin: "We are currently drawing up plans to say, listen, in these sanctuary cities where the local radical left Democrats aren't allowing us to do our job and enforce federal laws, then we shouldn't be processing international flights into their cities."
Excellent, good idea, no notes. Prohibit all international travel in "blue cities" right before the World Cup
>>2824237Power fantasy isnt new. The digital age just creates a shit ton of it. But maybe you're right leftist should produce more power fantasy propaganda. Especially in an age where people feel helpless. Imo I miss the optimism of the 2017 and 2018 American left. It would be nice to see media that projected a sense of agency and power that isnt grounded in crushing or humiliating others. That real power comes from uplifting people.
>>2824275it's sort of hard to have optimism when a generational pandemic happens and people either deny its effects, pretend it wasn't that bad as it ravaged hundreds of millions of people, and there isn't anything really hopeful there, just seems that it's time for more rot
>>2824283Trump is gonna lose his jewish donors gegg
>>2824300you know what? sure
>>2824306if only we had some level of class consciousness. not even talking about pure socialism, not all the people of Russia were even fully socialist in 1917, but they had enough knowledge about some basic kinds of labor relations, and they actually had resentment for things like war, capitalism, poverty, and the elites. with some basic level of knowledge, a few radicals here and there could run sabotage missions without the public demonizing them. if this grew into mass unrest, it would do wonders for our cause. the only problem is that we have a bunch retards that will willingly go against their own interests. we are the only country in the world holding voluntary Marches for billionaires. maybe these retards don't deserve socialism
>>2823546fuckin lmao your entire praxis is joining the DSA and handing out sandwiches.
in Communist America you'd be getting 15 years for membership in a counter-revolutionary organization.
You have actual military training and rather than using your skills for good, you just flit around like a dilettante. There will be no proletarian power without first defeating the Great Satan, the United States Government.
>>2824323
apologize
>>2824316>not all the people of Russia were even fully socialist in 1917yeah no shit, most of them weren't even proles but semi-literate orthodox christian peasants whose just wanted WW1 to end. the communists were the only ones promising that. Peace land bread. That was the slogan that won over the masses.
>>2824316>maybe these retards don't deserve socialism>deservewhen a good post lapses into retarded moralism… hey dumbass. nobody "deserves" anything. We either get it or we don't. People fight their whole lives for a shred of change, only to die, and for people who fought for nothing to inherit it. What does "deserve" even mean? It's just spooks.
>>2824326You know what it means and you retreat from any moral critique because ultimately you’re a coward who benefits from the system and isn’t ready to confront that fact
>>2824326if ethics are nothing but a spook then why bother with class struggle over collaboration? why socialism over corporatism etc.
>>2824327>you’re a coward who benefits from the systemyeah? so? my previous post is still correct. your brave ass will fight and die for something you never live to see while millions of "undeserving" simply wait it out. read a god damn history book. the vast majority of people don't fight for change. not even the oppressed. only a minority ever fight. everyone else avoids it at all costs. john brown couldn't get most of the slaves he freed to join his army.
>>2824328>if ethics are nothing but a spook then why bother with class struggle over collaboration?because it's in your class interests dummy
>>2824328It's in our self-interest as workers, duh.
>>2824320>in Communist America you'd be getting 15 years for membership in a counter-revolutionary organization. bro the larp is pathetic
>>2824332>>2824333and yet morality is an integral part of human self-preservation… because otherwise why not give up all of my power and control and resources to someone else? why do we deserve it and not them? what is the point of a system "from each according to his ability…"? as soon as you say why we "ought" to do something, you've established a normative ethical framework
>>2824337>why do we deserve it and not them? >deservethere's that spook again. you either win or you don't. so fight or die.
>>2824039
No way you think this zigger website thinks like that
>>2824039>>2824341god you both suck. total kayfabe. just trolls feeding each other.
>>2824337Morality is hardly integral to human life. Cannibalism was once widespread and the Romans considered both rape and slavery perfectly acceptable in the right context. Point being that what is and is not considered moral behavior has varied wildly throughout history, which reveals it as a construct. As a construct, there was surely a time without it.
The argument for communism requires nothing more than the self-interest of the majority. Most people will live a more comfortable life in a communist society. Some will not, but they do not matter.
>>2824350>Cannibalism was once widespreadwhat?
>>2824350>As a construct, there was surely a time without it.Some evolutionary scientists point out the reason humans domesticated themselves is because people who displayed certain behaviour were either killed or women refused to breed with them. An argument can be made that this is partily where morality came from.
So eh, I would say morality represents something deeper even if the idea is a construct
new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353new thread
>>2824353>>2824346
GEEEEEEEEEEG
Unique IPs: 176