🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅
>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™
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>>2850757 Communism becoming an identity is the worst thing to ever happen.
You may say
<bbbut I am someone who takes my ideology seriously and attempts to separate ego from the theory and practice, to truly hone it like a blade in the present moment!
But you don't. You refuse to budge with your rigid beliefs because it was the only way you could make friends on the internet. It was the relgio that gave you meaning when you were at your lowest point, and without it you would feel empty, and as if you'd wasted all these years being "different" and feeling like you know the real truth behind history and politics.
But you're just some guy.
Superior communist steel folded 9000 times
>>2852065That just links to the main DSA site, what's the point being made here?
>>2852065I have, which will surprise you not a little, been speculating—partly in American funds, but more especially in English stocks, which are springing up like mushrooms this year (in furtherance of every imaginable and unimaginable joint stock enterprise), are forced up to a quite unreasonable level and then, for the most part, collapse. In this way, I have made over £400 and, now that the complexity of the political situation affords greater scope, I shall begin all over again. It's a type of operation that makes small demands on one's time, and it's worth while running some risk in order to relieve the enemy of his money.
- Karl Marx, Letter to Lion Philips. 25 June 1864, preserved in Marx-Engels Collected Works, Vol. 41
>>2852064People with jobs and kids, who hate capitalism but don't want to risk their own lives, and those of their loved ones, for some fantastical "imminent" civil war and would instead prefer to do normal but progressive politics, people who actually do hate capitalism and would like to transcend it, but who don't give a flying fuck about your obsession with Enver Hoxha or permanent revolution or fucking labor aristocracy or any of that…
Those normal people with friends irl and prospects and partners and loved ones… They infuriate you.
Because they're enjoying their lives while you aren't.
Because they haven't trapped themselves in a self imposed prison of an unsolveable moral quandary.
All while look at AES states and say "hmph… Not real socialism…"
Buddy. Social democracy is socialism in practice. It is a slow walk. It is sustained effort passed down through generations. Everyone else is following the collective intuition. And you are doing nothing. You are forming microparties of absolutely no consequence. You are lonely. You are afraid to be wrong.
You are afraid to be wrong.
So you will hold ideals so impossible to meet that you will never act.
Waiting for the day to finally come where you will be proven right.
And you will die, bitter
You will die without ever changing a thing.
>>2852065Somehow, the mensheviks returned
>>2852065You know that's a troll post, right?
>>2852065And it's not real. If you fell for it you're a sucker
>>2852077he is reappropriating the fake post to make his own point. that's how teh internet works
>>2852075the real working class all have portraits of enver hoxha in their house and read all of das kapital in 1 hour after work. you just dont talk to them. i'm the one who's really in touch.
>>2852065sorry ultra but this is socialism with burger characteristics, stay mad
You are an American line cook in a midsized Midwest town Chili's 🌶️, and you are also somehow a Gonzalist Shining Path Maoist. Do you really believe in yourself that much? Or is this an identity you put on to overcompensate for your own insecurities in the real world? A real world that happens to be capitalist? You are afraid to participate in the rough and tumble world of humanity. You are afraid to hurt someone. It's a fair reason to be reticent. But history is full of compromises. And you latch onto your subconscious moralism. God is dead, but you resurrect him with every decision you make. You resurrect the dead God every time you sit down and decide that the others who are affecting change with their actions, grabbing the capitalist bull by the horns, are simply misguided or deceitful.
But that is your own personal scar of distrust. That is your perfectionism. It is not the truth that the collective feels in their heart. That is you setting yourself apart from the Masses you hold so dear.
>>2852077>>2852078Maybe it’s real, maybe it isn’t, but the fact that it’s so believable in the first place says a lot about the DSA as an organization
>>2852084>maybe it's real, maybe it isn'tweird translation for "i believed a twitter screenshot as evidence and now I'm backpedaling into agnosticism"
>it's so believable in the first placeis it though
>>2852084>the fact that I believed made up shit means it's believable to everyone else, and the fact that I fell for a slanderous twitter screenshot is proof that the slander is spiritually true. you strike me as the type of person who would take part in a lynch mob or a witch hunt based on vibes and zero evidence
>>2852065"Yeah we killed Allende. So what?" - Houdini
>>2852084It's not really believable unless you already view the DSA as non-socialist, though. Or maybe you're fishing for (You)s and I'm naive for replying.
>>2852083Can I at least quit and work at Red Lobster instead
the real movement is denouncing every party while joining none
>>2852089Red lobster is red for a reason, comrade 🇻🇳
>>2852085Considering their track record of normalizing genocidal Zionists from the left wing of capital it’s a genuine surprise they haven’t changed their logo to the Swastika
>>2852090Do you do this from your smelly incel childhood bedroom?
>>2852090Like playing with dolls
>>2852093I hate platner and I'm not a fan of the DSA but you can criticize them for their actual problems instead of making their critics look like boomers who fall for the most obvious fake shit
>>2852091Not quite, it's denouncing every existing party while saying you're in the only "real" communist organization. What's the organization? Well wouldn't you like to know, fed?
>>2852098platner's not dsa tbf
>>2852098>I hate platner and not a fan of DSAYou believe your opinions mean anything. You believe that having the "correct" stance matters at all.
>>2852103you fell for a twitter screenshot and now you're doing this fake struggle session bullshit where you say my stance doesn't matter while wielding your equally meaningless (and constantly shifting) stance like a chainsaw
oh wait you're probably not the same anon who fell for the fake shit, you're just rushing to their defense and changing the context of the discussion to your own derangement
>>2852103you believe this
you believe that
no i wont ask you questions
i just get to make up your mind in my own head and have smug feefees about it
I used to think Trump being so retarded and dems doing nothing about it was going to push der burgervolk left but coming here it seems he has the opposite effect and everyone is ready to stay in the DNC plantation 50 more years
>>2852109And are you gonna elaborate on how you reached that conclusion or…?
>>2852110It's not my job to educate you
Zizek in 2008:
>Ideology works by saying "It works even if you don't believe in it"
Now, I would say in 2026:
>Ideology doesn't work, even if you force yourself to believe
tired of these do nothing weirdos seething about DSA in every thread. no they aren't great but there is no bolsheviks in the USA. point to them and I'll join them. they can't. they won't. they call you a fed if you ask where the real party is. they won't ever answer "factory status?" they're just negative. all they do is tear down everyone else and exalt themselves. it's really narcissistic and toxic bullshit that would just get you punched in real life which is why they only do it on here.
all they do is denounce denounce denounce the DSA in chorus with the demokkkrats and reuthuglikkkans, and they'll just make up in their heads a caricature and stick with that no matter how much you try to clarify they won't believe anything you say and find a way to twist it into their own made up interpretation, like idealists instead of materialists
>i don't want my tax dollars going to israel's genocide of palestinians.
<yes you do. why? cuz i said so
>i want to build schools and hospitals here instead of blowing them up somewhere else
<no you dont. why? cuz i said so.
it's just this on repeat. if you don't do shit in real life shut the fuck up.
it's never left enough for you but if it was you would purge everyone to your left too, for being "ultras". you see yourself as god. you get to purge everyone to your left and your right, because you know the exact temp the porridge should be. except you can't actually purge shit because you're just a poster.
>>2852109the DNC plantation is seething right now
>>2852119This is true. However I do think we need to be measured to some extent, the DSA is currently backing an imperialist war criminal for elected office, they're hardly perfect
>>2852121>the DSA is currently backing an imperialist war criminal for elected office, they're hardly perfectstalin backed churchill against hitler, sometimes life gives you hard choices
>>2852121>the DSA is currently backing an imperialist war criminal for elected officewho
>>2852121Platner isn't even endorsed by the DSA tho
why did so many anons do a 180 on the DSA in the past few days? just because they won elections?
Philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it.
- Karl Marx, Theses on Feuerbach, 1845
[…] it is only possible to achieve real liberation in the real world by employing real means, that slavery cannot be abolished without the steam-engine and the mule and spinning-jenny, serfdom cannot be abolished without improved agriculture, and that, in general, people cannot be liberated as long as they are unable to obtain food and drink, housing and clothing in adequate quality and quantity. “Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture, the conditions of intercourse.
- Karl Marx, The German Ideology, 1845-1846
>>2852127it's not a 180. they still suck i'm just sick of people who do nothing but complain. like actually build a real alternative to them. all ruthless criticism no real movement in this mf.
>>2852127it all began when zohran beat aipac sponsored cuomo
>>2852129They're just young and going through growing pains. We'll have to wait and see.
>>2852129The funny thing is the very nature of the DSA makes building a real alternative from within them probably the most viable strategy, as seen by the actual existing ML caucuses. But if you even suggest that to some people they'll denounce you as a Nazi and come up with lurid fantasies about their "cadres" executing you
Every demand of the simplest bourgeois financial reform, of the most ordinary liberalism, of the most formal republicanism, of the most shallow democracy, is simultaneously castigated as an "attempt on society" and stigmatized as "socialism". And finally the high priests of "religion and order" themselves are driven with kicks from their Pythian tripods, hauled out of their beds in the darkness of night, put in prison vans, thrown into dungeons or sent into exile; their temple is razed to the ground, their mouths are sealed, their pens broken, their law torn to pieces in the name of religion, of property, of the family, of order.
- Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852)
>>2852110by reading this thread and seeing people get called sectarian anti-communists if they are not inside the blue maga socdem hypetrain
>>2852119Tbh I think our attitude towards the DSA should be that it's helping to cultivate a broad worker's movement which is necessary to give birth to a communist one. Social democracy eventually reaches a stage where it becomes reactionary, but only when it becomes an obstacle to the further advancement of worker's power rather than a benefit to it. Eventually you reach a point where they might say, intervene on the side of the ruling class against a worker's uprising like in 1919. However such an uprising wouldn't have been possible in the first place without the foundations laid by social democracy in the 19th century.
>>2852080as we all know, workers are incapable of doing the conceptual work that comes with marxism and they never read stuff. this is why if you don't think wholesome corporatist 1000 year social democrat reich is socialism properly understood you're an ultra trot wrecker leftcom bordigger anarchist etc etc
>>2852136there are unironic iww affiliates in dsa, though the socdems are a minority
>>2852138t. retard with a book club of six equally insufferable people he calls a communist party
>>2852138>The DSA is not a party but a wing of the DNC.The DNC: no it isn't, we hate those people don't associate them with us
Trump: actually every democrat is basically a scary DSA socialist
terminally online MLs: DSA is not just democrats, it's actually worse than democrats, it's stopping the real movement of me and my 6 hoxhaist discord buddies
it's funny how the DSA makes literally everyone seethe
>>2852144Yeah yeah yeah, as soon as you win they'll have you kissing the ring in no time. They'll shower you with money and invite you to all the parties and you'll just fall in line
>>2852143>>2852144>>2852145Do you deny the DSA only runs registered Democrats?
And also do you deny that Democrats where the overseers of the Gaza genocide?
>>2852147Do you deny the arms factories in your state are intact and fueling said genocide?
>>2852147No. But have you presented any actual alternative? Moving the country left to social democracy is at least better than the status quo. Of course we could come up with a party with better politics than DSA but it wouldn't have any members.
>>2852147Do you deny that the DSA isn't an official party yet because the current situation would make it impossible for such a party to win?
Do you deny that they only run anti-genocide Democrats?
>>2852147even if you find this tactic faulty (most of the DSA at this point would agree!) to paint the DSA as one and the same as the democrats is stupid
>>2852150Asking him to present an alternative? What are you some kind of fed???
>>2852147the DNC dosent control registered democrats, there is no whip, there is no party discipline, having a D next to your name only really matters so that no other person can have that D.
Can I just say the multi-thread obsession with the DSA is solid evidence that the people who throw around Nazi accusations are more responsible for the dismal state of this board than anyone else?
Like there are other things to discuss but we’ve got a cabal of like 3 or 4 people who will endlessly complain that you have to hate Zohran to be a “true” communist.
>>2852158I'll be honest, this trend of calling anything remotely left wing that isn't waving banners of Stalin in public "Nazism" just cheapens the word. Much like turbo-zionists crying "antisemitism" over people saying that genocide is mmmbad actually
>>2852150You are not moving shit left. You are just admitting that you want American imperialism to benefit more people in America, this is not how that system works. It only paves the way to fascism. Any small gains still rely on American imperialism continuing.
>>2852151Win? Win what? You gave the game away with that answer. You just want to play the same game the capitalist plays. It is not about socialism or communism or class, just ballots and false promises as well as capitalist lobbyist pigs donating to your "cause". The point of the communist party is not to "win" in elections, but to organize the masses towards revolution, and winning an election does not mean pushing for slight reforms, it very well means exposing and putting the politicians life on the line to halt any and all actions of imperialist legislature. You and your ilk quickly try to paint random people and naysayers as the ones who have to put their bodies and lives on the line to stop imperialism (through adventurist means no less), but you never hold your idols in the DSA to the same standard.
A true communist politician who takes office is not the figurehead of the party but only a member. They should be prepared to die, face imprisonment, and do whatever is necessary to expose the capitalist pigs within their midst in those gaudy halls. Would a Mamdani or AOC do such things, of course not, they will just glam it up for a camera and call for "bipartisanship" calling the reactionaries "friends" while turning their face serious when on the podium to their constitutes seconds later calling for "change". They are not communists because they have no party except the democratic party. They are beholden to capitalists. You say this is steps towards a new party but it is exactly the opposite, servitude to the old state because you just want to be the old state and "win" in their little games.
>>2852136>Social democracy eventually reaches a stage where it becomes reactionaryit reached that stage more than 100 years ago
>>2852164>You and your ilk quickly try to paint random people and naysayers as the ones who have to put their bodies and lives on the line to stop imperialism Actually more often than not you people denounce them as fascist anarkkkiddies because they did it while being the member of the incorrect organization. Of course, we aren't allowed to know what the correct organization is because then we'd wreck it
>>2852158Has anyone mentioned Palestine for a reason for hating Zohran? I bet not. It should be top of the list as far as I'm concerned.
>>2852164>They should be prepared to die, face imprisonment, and do whatever is necessary to expose the capitalist pigs within their midst in those gaudy halls. Why don't you do it then, hypocrite vanguard-sama?
>>2852169>Why don't you do it then<You and your ilk quickly try to paint random people and naysayers as the ones who have to put their bodies and lives on the line to stop imperialism (through adventurist means no less), but you never hold your idols in the DSA to the same standard.Why don't you have your beloved candidates do this? You and your "party" have "power" don't you?
>>2852161It's absurd. It's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon but once the connection is made people insist you
are Kevin Bacon.
>>2852168There's valid critiques of Zohran on the issue of Palestine (for example he still hasn't fired that cop that protects land sales from Pro-Palestine protesters) but that's never engaged with as a reality, instead its turned into histironic claims that Zohran himself is a Zionist or that there's no shade between him and an IDF guy blasting a kid's head open in Gaza.
It's like if you see someone who's trying to lose weight and one day they eat a cupcake, so you declare they're a binge eater with a terrible diet based solely off that one cupcake.
>>2852165Yeah and then the entire worker's movement shat the bed after 1991 and we're starting again basically from scratch.
>>2852172>the entire worker's movement shat the bed after 1991Idealism, but more importantly, western-centric idealism. The USSR especially post Stalin was not the beating heart of the worker's movement, far from it. You all just point at a dates on the board and think history stopped or started at that point/points.
>>2852171>It's absurd. It's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon but once the connection is made people insist you are Kevin Bacon.Honestly that's probably the best way of putting it that I've seen. Like hell just in the last thread there was someone claiming that an outspoken anti-Zionist DSA candidate was actually a Zionist shitlib because she's vaguely connected to some guy who knew some guy who worked for an organization that worked with Bernie Sanders. Like at that point you might as well claim that Lenin was a Tsarist wrecker
>>2852178what party are you in
man who names himself jizzveins
"and that is why i am the one true marxist and you should take me very seriously"
>>2852172so to rebuild the workers movement you have to support the guys that wrecked it in the past
sounds smart
>>2852184another inter-dengist conflict
getting tired of these
>>2852185>so to rebuild the workers movement you have to support the guys that wrecked it in the past>sounds smartexactly
leftism is always the left wing of capital
and left communism is an infantile disorder
and social democracy is the moderate wing of fascism
and liberalism is fascism
but conservatism is just communism i.e. the practical application of christianity to the oriental mode of production.
>>2852182>stating basic communist principles is serious shitI mean yes, but please, individualize this shit towards me all you want, doesn't make your "change the party from within" strategy play any less into the hands of the capitalists while making the creation of an actual separate party more remote every cycle.
>>2852189If America were Dengist everything in my house would be made in America and my wage would have tripled over the past 20 years without inflation.
>>2852192what party are you in
>>2852185To rebuild the worker's movement you need more than just communists. There would be no communist movement at all without the broader trade union and social democratic movements of the 19th century.
>>2852178>Idealism, but more importantly, western-centric idealism. Socialist movements around the entire world have been in steep decline ever since the collapse of the USSR. Call them revisionist all you want, but it's an unediable fact that it's loss was an unmitigated disaster for worker's power and organization globally. Sure, it's not quite as dead in some corners of the world as the West, but it's pretty fucking dead no matter where you look.
>>2852192i was talking about jizzveins, not you
fuckin narcissist
>>2852196>fuckin narcissistI sincerely apologize.
>>2852193amerika right now is late-dengist, you just missed the early-dengist era (FDR)
>>2852197Deng actually bled fighting Japanese fascists but you just make AI memes of jersey shore stalin
>>2852199FDR did those policies to prevent communists from coming into power
Deng did those policies to prevent communists from losing power. That's the difference. History will vindicate what I say.
>>2852197why is he letting people OUT of the gulag, this was not in the manga
>>2852200>AI memes of jersey shore stalinThis is real historical footage tho
>>2852202>letting people out of the gulagyou are falsifier
>>2852200>FDR did those policies to prevent communists from coming into powerI know, which is why its weird so many "communists" here want to retvrn to that
I guess I'm just an undialectical retard
not gonna comment on the Deng thing lol
>>2852211what party are you in
>>2852211>I know, which is why its weird so many "communists" here want to retvrn to thatthere is no retvrning. that's the best part. Democrats no longer want a coalition with social democrats and communists. They are afraid of even the most tepid succdem reforms. At this current historical moment supporting DSA will not result in a democrat/DSA coalition, it will result in democrats tripling down on their far right "centrism" and "reasonable" politics. they will join republicans in crushing all legal opposition, proving once and for all to the working masses that underground militant opposition is needed. DSA must be supported so that they can be crushed by democrats and republicans in front of everyone.
>>2851889>Trump says landlords need to raise rents because the cost of energy has gone up over the past yearBut Trump sir, the rent does not include utilities. The renter has to pay the utilities themself on top of the rent…
>>2852215>Democrats no longer want a coalition with social democrats and communists.This shit never was a fucking thing and the "social democrats and communists" *cough* Browder *cough* involved were anything but willing traitors themselves.
>>2852219what party are you in
>>2852187WRONG. We are an anti revisionist board and we believe in
VOOTING!https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1895/03/06.htmFrederick Engels 1895Introduction to Karl Marx’s - The Class Struggles in France 1848 to 1850
>Thanks to the intelligent use which the German workers made of the universal suffrage introduced in 1866, the astonishing growth of the party is made plain to all the world by incontestable figures: 1871, 102,000; 1874, 352,000; 1877, 493,000 Social-Democratic votes. Then came recognition of this advance by high authority in the shape of the Anti-Socialist Law; the party was temporarily broken up, the number of votes dropped to 312,000 in 1881. But that was quickly overcome, and then, under the pressure of the Exceptional Law, without a press, without a legal organisation and without the right of association and assembly, rapid expansion began in earnest: 1884, 550,000; 1887, 763,000; 1890, 1,427,000 votes. The hand of the state was paralysed. The Anti-Socialist Law disappeared; the socialist vote rose to 1,787,000, over a quarter of all the votes cast. The government and the ruling classes had exhausted all their expedients — uselessly, pointlessly, unsuccessfully. The tangible proofs of their impotence, which the authorities, from night watchman to the imperial chancellor had had to accept — and that from the despised workers! — these proofs were counted in millions. The state was at the end of its tether, the workers only at the beginning of theirs.
>But, besides, the German workers rendered a second great service to their cause in addition to the first, a service performed by their mere existence as the strongest, most disciplined and most rapidly growing socialist party. They supplied their comrades in all countries with a new weapon, and one of the most potent, when they showed them how to make use of universal suffrage.
>There had long been universal suffrage in France, but it had fallen into disrepute through the way it had been abused by the Bonapartist government. After the Commune there was no workers’ party to make use of it. It had also existed in Spain since the republic but in Spain election boycotts had been the rule for all serious opposition parties from time immemorial. The experience of the Swiss with universal suffrage was also anything but encouraging for a workers’ party. The revolutionary workers of the Latin countries had been wont to regard the suffrage as a snare, as an instrument of government trickery. It was different in Germany. The Communist Manifesto had already proclaimed the winning of universal suffrage, of democracy, as one of the first and most important tasks of the militant proletariat, and Lassalle had again taken up this point. Now that Bismarck found himself compelled to introduce this franchise as the only means of interesting the mass of the people in his plans, our workers immediately took it in earnest and sent August Bebel to the first, constituent Reichstag. And from that day on they have used the franchise in a way which has paid them a thousandfold and has served as a model to the workers of all countries. The franchise has been, in the words of the French Marxist programme, transformé de moyen de duperie qu'il a été jusquici en instrument d'emancipation — transformed by them from a means of deception, which it was before, into an instrument of emancipation. And if universal suffrage had offered no other advantage than that it allowed us to count our numbers every three years; that by the regularly established, unexpectedly rapid rise in our vote it increased in equal measure the workers’ certainty of victory and the dismay of their opponents, and so became our best means of propaganda; that it accurately informed us of our own strength and that of all opposing parties, and thereby provided us with a measure of proportion second to none for our actions, safeguarding us from untimely timidity as much as from untimely foolhardiness — if this had been the only advantage we gained from the suffrage, it would still have been much more than enough. But it did more than this by far. In election propaganda it provided us with a means, second to none, of getting in touch with the mass of the people where they still stand aloof from us; of forcing all parties to defend their views and actions against our attacks before all the people; and, further, it provided our representatives in the Reichstag with a platform from which they could speak to their opponents in parliament, and to the masses outside, with quite different authority and freedom than in the press or at meetings. Of what avail was their Anti-Socialist Law to the government and the bourgeoisie when election campaigning and socialist speeches in the Reichstag continually broke through it?
>With this successful utilisation of universal suffrage, however, an entirely new method of proletarian struggle came into operation, and this method quickly took on a more tangible form. It was found that the state institutions, in which the rule of the bourgeoisie is organised, offer the working class still further levers to fight these very state institutions. The workers took part in elections to particular diets, to municipal councils and to trades courts; they contested with the bourgeoisie every post in the occupation of which a sufficient part of the proletariat had a say. And so it happened that the bourgeoisie and the government came to be much more afraid of the legal than of the illegal action of the workers’ party, of the results of elections than of those of rebellion.
>For here, too, the conditions of the struggle had changed fundamentally. Rebellion in the old style, street fighting with barricades, which decided the issue everywhere up to 1848, had become largely outdated.
>Let us have no illusions about it: a real victory of insurrection over the military in street fighting, a victory as between two armies, is one of the rarest exceptions. And the insurgents counted on it just as rarely. For them it was solely a question of making the troops yield to moral influences which, in a fight between the armies of two warring countries, do not come into play at all or do so to a much smaller extent. If they succeed in this, the troops fail to respond, or the commanding officers lose their heads, and the insurrection wins. If they do not succeed in this, then, even where the military are in the minority, the superiority of better equipment and training, of uniform leadership, of the planned employment of the military forces and of discipline makes itself felt. The most that an insurrection can achieve in the way of actual tactical operations is the proficient construction and defence of a single barricade. Mutual support, the disposition and employment of reserves — in short, concerted and co-ordinated action of the individual detachments, indispensable even for the defence of one borough, not to speak of the whole of a large town, will be attainable only to a very limited extent, and usually not at all. Concentration of the military forces at a decisive point is, of course, out of the question here. Hence passive defence is the predominant form of struggle; an attack will be mounted here and there, by way of exception, in the form of occasional thrusts and assaults on the flanks; as a rule, however, it will be limited to the occupation of positions abandoned by retreating troops. In addition, the military have at their disposal artillery and fully equipped corps of trained engineers, means of warfare which, in nearly every case, the insurgents entirely lack. No wonder, then, that even the barricade fighting conducted with the greatest heroism — Paris, June 1848; Vienna, October 1848; Dresden, May 1849 — ended in the defeat of the insurrection as soon as the leaders of the attack, unhampered by political considerations, acted according to purely military criteria, and their soldiers remained reliable.
>The numerous successes of the insurgents up to 1848 were due to a great variety of causes. In Paris, in July 1830 and February 1848, as in most of the Spanish street fighting, a civic guard stood between the insurgents and the military. This guard either sided directly with the insurrection, or else by its lukewarm, indecisive attitude caused the troops likewise to vacillate, and supplied the insurrection with arms into the bargain. Where this civic guard opposed the insurrection from the outset, as in June 1848 in Paris, the insurrection was vanquished. In Berlin in 1848, the people were victorious partly through considerable reinforcements in the shape of new fighting forces during the night and the morning of March 19th, partly as a result of the exhaustion and poor rations of the troops, and, finally, partly as a result of the paralysis engendered by the command. But in all cases the fight was won because the troops failed to respond, because the commanding officers lost the faculty to decide or because their hands were tied.
>Even in the classic time of street fighting, therefore, the barricade produced more of a moral than a material effect. It was a means of shaking the steadfastness of the military. If it held out until this was attained, victory was won; if not, the outcome was defeat. This is the main point which must be kept in view, also when examining the outlook for possible future street fighting.
>Back in 1849 already, this outlook was pretty poor. Everywhere the bourgeoisie had thrown in its lot with the governments, “culture and property” had hailed and feasted the military moving against insurrection. The barricade had lost its magic; the soldier no longer saw behind it “the people”, but rebels, subversives, plunderers, levellers, the scum of society; the officer had in the course of time become versed in the tactical forms of street fighting, he no longer marched straight ahead and without cover against the improvised breastwork, but went round it through gardens, yards and houses. And this was now successful, with a little skill, in nine cases out of ten.
>But since then there have been very many more changes, and all in favour of the military. If the big towns have become considerably bigger, the armies have become bigger still. Paris and Berlin have, since 1848, grown less than fourfold, but their garrisons have grown more than that. By means of the railways, these garrisons can, in twenty-four hours, be more than doubled, and in forty-eight hours they can be increased to huge armies. The arming of this enormously increased number of troops has become incomparably more effective. In 1848 the smooth-bore, muzzle-loading percussion gun, today the small-calibre, breech-loading magazine rifle, which shoots four times as far, ten times as accurately and ten times as fast as the former. At that time the relatively ineffective round shot and grape-shot of the artillery; today the percussion shells, of which one is sufficient to demolish the best barricade. At that time the pick-axe of the sapper for breaking through fire proof walls; today the dynamite cartridge.
>On the other hand, all the conditions of the insurgents’ side have grown worse. An insurrection with which all sections of the people sympathise is hardly likely to recur; in the class struggle all the middle strata will never in all probability group themselves around the proletariat so exclusively that in comparison the party of reaction gathered round the bourgeoisie will well-nigh disappear. The “people”, therefore, will always appear divided, and thus a most powerful lever, so extraordinarily effective in 1848, is gone. If more soldiers who have seen service came over to the insurrectionists, the arming of them would become so much the more difficult. The hunting and fancy guns of the munitions shops — even if not previously made unusable by the removal of part of the lock on police orders — are far from being a match for the magazine rifle of the soldier, even in close fighting. Up to 1848 it was possible to make the necessary ammunition oneself out of powder and lead; today the cartridges differ for each gun, and are everywhere alike only in one point, namely, that they are a complicated product of big industry, and therefore not to be manufactured ex tempore, with the result that most guns are useless as long as one does not possess the ammunition suited only to them. And, finally, since 1848 the newly built quarters of the big cities have been laid out in long, straight, broad streets, tailor-made to give full effect to the new cannons and rifles. The revolutionary would have to be mad to choose of his own accord the new working class districts in the north or east of Berlin for a barricade fight.
>Does that mean that in the future street fighting will no longer play any role? Certainly not. It only means that the conditions since 1848 have become far more unfavourable for civilian fighters and far more favourable for the military. In future, street fighting can, therefore, be victorious only if this disadvantageous situation is compensated by other factors. Accordingly, it will occur more seldom at the beginning of a great revolution than at its later stages, and will have to be undertaken with greater forces. These, however, may then well prefer, as in the whole great French Revolution or on September 4 and October 31, 1870, in Paris, the open attack to passive barricade tactics. >>2852220not the dsa, fuck the dsa
>>2852221>Does the reader now understand why the powers-that-be positively want to get us to go where the guns shoot and the sabres slash? Why they accuse us today of cowardice, because we do not take without more ado to the streets, where we are certain of defeat in advance? Why they so earnestly implore us to play for once the part of cannon fodder?
>The gentlemen pour out their petitions and their challenges for nothing, for absolutely nothing. We are not that stupid. They might just as well demand from their enemy in the next war that he should accept battle in the line formation of old Fritz, [Frederick II] or in the columns of whole divisions a la Wagram and Waterloo, and with the flint-lock in his hands at that. If conditions have changed in the case of war between nations, this is no less true in the case of the class struggle. The time of surprise attacks, of revolutions carried through by small conscious minorities at the head of masses lacking consciousness is past. Where it is a question of a complete transformation of the social organisation, the masses themselves must also be in on it, must themselves already have grasped what is at stake, what they are fighting for, body and soul.
>The history of the last fifty years has taught us that. But in order that the masses may understand what is to be done, long, persistent work is required, and it is just this work that we are now pursuing, and with a success which drives the enemy to despair.
>In the Latin countries, too, it is being realised more and more that the old tactics must be revised. Everywhere the German example of utilising the suffrage, of winning all posts accessible to us, has been imitated; everywhere the unprepared launching of an attack has been relegated to the background. In France, where for more than a hundred years the ground has been undermined by one revolution after another, where there is not a single party which has not done its share in conspiracies, insurrections and all other revolutionary actions; in France, where, as a result, the government is by no means sure of the army and where the conditions for an insurrectionary coup de main are altogether far more favourable than in Germany — even in France the Socialists are realising more and more that no lasting victory is possible for them unless they first win over the great mass of the people, i.e. the peasants in this instance. Slow propaganda work and parliamentary activity are recognised here, too, as the immediate tasks of the party. Successes have not been lacking. Not only have a whole series of municipal councils been won; fifty Socialists have seats in the Chambers, and they have already overthrown three ministries and a president of the republic. In Belgium last year the workers forced the adoption of the franchise, and have been victorious in a quarter of the constituencies. In Switzerland, in Italy, in Denmark, yes, even in Bulgaria and Romania the Socialists are represented in the parliaments. In Austria all parties agree that our admission to the Imperial Council can no longer be withheld. We will get in, that is certain; the only question still in dispute is: by which door? And even in Russia, when the famous Zemsky Sobor meets — that National Assembly to which young Nicholas offers such vain resistance — even there we can reckon with certainty on being represented in it.
>But whatever may happen in other countries, the German Social-Democrats occupy a special position and thus, at least in the immediate future, have a special task. The two million voters whom they send to the ballot box, together with the young men and women who stand behind them as non-voters, form the most numerous, most compact mass, the decisive “shock force” of the international proletarian army. This mass already supplies over a quarter of the votes cast; and as the by-elections to the Reichstag, the Diet elections in individual states, the municipal council and trades court elections demonstrate, it is constantly on the increase. Its growth proceeds as spontaneously, as steadily, as irresistibly, and at the same time as tranquilly as a natural process. All government intervention has proved powerless against it. We can count even today on two and a quarter million voters. If it continues in this fashion, by the end of the century we shall have the greater part of the middle strata of society, petty bourgeoisie and small peasants, and we shall grow into the decisive power in the land, before which all other powers will have to bow, whether they like it or not.The guaranteed way to get zero replies on this board is quote Marx or Engels.
>>2852190conservatism is the brainlet wing of liberalism
>>2852215lowkey trvke
>>2852147you have started to babble.
>>2852222what party are you in
>>2852230umm you're quote mining or something. when you post sources it is actually worse than me just vibing and spamming memes
>>2852201because it was in the kermit the frog movie.
btw, one infamous liberal, anne applebaum, uses picrel unironically in one of her articles to describe gulags.
https://www.anneapplebaum.com/2003/06/02/the-gulag-as-it-really-was/ >>2852228trump finds always a way to get more more and more impopular, doesn't he?
>>2852229It never fucking was. The formation of NATO alone shows they never cared for any coalition, the USSR and socialism was just the next clear enemy of western imperialism. Stalin's USSR and Mao's China always knew this, its only what came after them that gave back life to the lie of "social democracy", the same social democracy that paved the way for fascism a decade prior.
>>2852240what party are you in
if there were a real popular marxist leninist alternative to DSA that would be one thing but you screech and howl about DSA at the same time as donald trump and van jones
DSA bad
PSL bad
CPUSA bad
SPUSA bad
ACP bad
FRSO bad
PCUSA bad
ACB bad
APL bad
PFP bad
WFP bad
RCP bad
SLP bad
SEP bad
FSP bad
PLP bad
APSP bad
no i will never tell you what party is good, there isnt one. just go build it. but dont you dare work with anyone who was ever wrong about anything ever.
>>2852259> just go build ityou forgot to add:
and don't ever tell people what that party is. it's a one member party!
we're gonna vote for hakeem jeffries. deal with it chud.
>>2852066Wow, this is so pathetic. Trump knows he going to die soon and all of his nonsense is a desperate attempt to leve a mark so people will never forget him.
>>2852066what a fucking retard
>>2852274he thinks immortality is how many people are forced to say your name over and over after you die
>>2852268>AOC will be our kerenskykulinski will be our kerensky. uyghas is houngry
>>2852264
go build another party that will devolve into gorbachev
>>2852268DSA right now is the labour party of russia, eventually it will split between the mensheviks and the bolsheviks.
>>2852292
what party are you in
THESIS: DSA is the real movement and all efforts must go to vooting for them
ANTITHESIS: DSA are counterrevolutionary social fascists who must be violently opposed
SYNTHESIS: Revolutionary leftists of all stripes should use the DSA as a tool to advance revolutionary interests, working to take over the organization through dominance of revolutionary caucuses and purging reformists. If this causes the organization to shatter so be it
>>2852318no that makes too much sense, you support genocide or something
>>2852323
You might wanna get that fact checked by Real Mamdani Patriots
>>2852314AMERICANS ARE FAT. THEY'RE FAT AND THEY EAT BURGER.
>>2852319Stav must still have a sore leg, since he never actually managed to lose the weight. If only he listened to Nick instead of crying.
>>2852321
first person to actually answer the question award. I will leave you alone.
>>2852264
hakeem jeffries wouldn't lie to us!
>>2852226Clearly he isn't in one. Watch as he responds by throwing around glowie accusations
why doesnt the RCA overthrow capitalism already
Saw some interview with a bunch of Christian nationalists, and beyond the irony of them claiming Obama was militantly anti-christian, a few were saying there needs to be state mandated Church attendance on Sundays, including for Atheists and Muslims.
Didn't Spain try to do that in the Franco period and the only thing that happened was the Churches became less religious because a bunch of people who weren't Christian were forced to be there?
>>2852419christians are by definition convinced the only reason someone else isn't christian is because they haven't "received the gospel" yet. it's like, their entire belief system. reality be damned.
>>2852430>christians are by definition convinced the only reason someone else isn't christian is because they haven't "received the gospel" yet. it's like, their entire belief system. reality be damned.I've heard some college profs say they've encountered evangelical students who basically claim Muslims
know they're a "fake religion" and don't "actually believe it" but they're "allowed" to out of courtesy from Christians. Its batshit.
Also in more religious news.
Pope Leo to review just war doctrine after criticism from JD Vance<Pope Leo XIV is gearing up to write new guidelines on when Christians can justify war after JD Vance suggested he was better suited to discuss the topic than the pontiff.
>Pope Leo, who has been targeted by the vice president and President Donald Trump for condemning the deeply unpopular Iran conflict, will hold a secret meeting with the world’s cardinals on Friday to discuss whether the “just war” theory needs updating in an era of drones, cyber warfare, and nuclear weapons, according to Politico.
>In April, the pope cited the doctrine established by St. Augustine in the fifth century to condemn the war in Iran, noting that disciples of Christ are “never on the side of those who once wielded the sword and today drop bombs.”
>Days later, at a Turning Point USA event in Georgia, Vance—who converted to Catholicism in 2019 at age 35—began feuding with the pope and suggested he should be “careful when he talks about matters of theology.”
<“If you’re going to opine on matters of theology, you’ve got to be careful, you’ve got to make sure it’s anchored in the truth,” Vance added.
>In response, Bishop James Massa, one of America’s leading Catholic bishops, issued a scathing statement condemning Vance’s remarks, adding that the Catholic Church has taught for “thousands of years” that wars can be justified “in self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”
>Pope Leo has already suggested that the just war doctrine may need to be revised to reflect the modern world. The pope is also reportedly concerned about how the doctrine, in its current form, is being used by world leaders to justify their wars.
>Writing last month in an encyclical—an official papal letter outlining the church’s position on a key issue—Pope Leo argued that a doctrine “which has all too often been used to justify any kind of war, is now outdated.”
>Speaking to reporters aboard a flight to Madrid in June, Pope Leo said the problem with the just war theory is that it was “developed in an era when no one could have imagined the weapons we have today or humanity’s capacity for destruction.”
>Francesco Sisci, director of the Rome-based Appia Institute think tank, added that any changes put in place by Pope Leo to the centuries-old doctrine following Friday’s meeting of cardinals would be a powerful statement from the pontiff.
>However, he also believes some cardinals may push to keep it as it is.
<“It’s messy,” Sisci told Politico. “If JD Vance and [tech billionaire] Peter Thiel are claiming Iran is a just war, maybe it’s because there are priests who are lending them credence.” >>2852435good photoshop potential
>>2852435do you think the suit stays on during sex
>>2852453That's his wife's fetish
>>2852444Vance mad that assassinating the last Pope didn’t give him the result he wanted
>>2852444wouldn't Vance claiming the Pope is wrong on matters of theology be grounds for excommunication? like the whole point of catholicism is that popes receive the word of god directly and their word is infallible when it comes to theology.
Honestly, a Judeo, Christian, Muslim, Hindu theocratic fascism is just the type of schizophrenic reaction I’d expectant from the U.S.
>>2852476So it’s kind of complicated. The Church leans more on “automatic excommunication” which kind of lets it sidestep the political shitshow of excommunicating Vance for his support of the Iran War/disagreeing with The Pope, but also shit like Catholic Dems being pro-choice. The Pope is also really only infallible when speaking “ex cathedra” which has really only happened twice in history: first for the Immaculate Conception and second for the Assumption of Mary. It’s kind of a nuclear option, there can’t be any take backs on it, so you don’t want it to become common use.
So Catholics are able to claim “The Pope is mistaken” on some issues, but you certainly come across as an asshole for it and you’ve got to have a strong theological argument to back it—I don’t think there’s such an argument for Vance.
The neoliberal reactionaries are in full-blown historical coping mode. The NGO counter‑insurgency apparatus, the velvet glove of the liberal order has been exposed and relentlessly dismantled over the course of long, patient years. The consent of the masses, the fragile social contract that sustained the post‑Cold War consensus, is dissolving in real time.
Even the Washington Post has been forced to acknowledge the catastrophe. They recently published a remarkable confession, "For liberalism to beat populists and socialists, it's going to have to get radical." This is the final, desperate articulation of a dying order. Other organs of the mainstream media have followed suit, each one insinuating though never quite stating outright that liberalism must now adopt the open, Zionist‑aligned, fascistic radicalism of the MAGA movement. They may not write it explicitly, but the logical trajectory is unmistakable, a liberal radicalized against socialism is a liberal who has descended into fascist reaction.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2026/06/27/why-liberalism-is-losing-socialists-populists/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op2R2nscl0kThe Democratic Socialists of America, like any political wing of a movement or a people, must be subject to ferocious critique. This is not sectarianism; it is the mass line. It is the fundamental principle of democratic centralism, that criticism and self‑criticism are the engines of revolutionary development. What the DSA is doing, its reformist tailism, its integration into the apparatus of the Democratic Party is not building socialism, and don't worry, the forces you cant see know this. What it is doing is contributing to the tearing of American society at the seams, exposing contradictions, and forcing reactionaries into motion, which in turn will put revolutionaries into full swing. It is accelerating the decomposition of the liberal order from within, paving the way for a far more reactionary settlement to be exposed, so conscious workers can openly attack it on all fronts.
The naysayers of the DSA's success do not yet see the bigger plan. They do not understand that the liberal order is not reforming itself; it is radicalizing itself against them. They do not understand that the DSA's integration into the Democratic Party is not a victory, but a trap, set to expose AIPAC and bourgeoise actors. You mother fuckers play too much chess, try checkers.
Just wait. You will all see. It has been fun watching the spectacle, but the spectacle is ending. We are everywhere. And we will still be here when the liberal order is nothing but a memory.
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