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>>2850507The smoke wars edition.
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740https://azovlobby.substack.com/https://banderalobby.substack.com/—————————————————–
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>Video Essays / Historical Background📺 • Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q📺 • The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
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Petrol status?
Russian arms giant showcases pioneering anti-drone rounds (VIDEO)
https://swentr.site/russia/642536-anti-drone-rounds-rostec/>>28579984th pic not true, though. Sentencing was vastly different. It's like those gulag victims who claimed that they were sentenced for jokes about Stalin, but in reality sentence was entirely different
>You don't get, once Kramatorsk falls Ukrainian victory points will fall under the surrender limit and they'll be automatically forced to capitulate.
Yes, being pushed out of the region you’re contesting generally means you’re forced to capitulate in that contest.
Is this just your particular gimmick not-grillpill, openly not understanding anything and not knowing shit is cool because, erm, no one cares anyway?
Like just a reminder for everyone, not-grillpill doesn’t understand what a statue is.
>>2857998Israel has right to defend itself, but independent Palestine must be created — Putin
<"The negotiations’ goal should be the implementation of the United Nations' two-state formula, which implies the creation of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital," the Russian leader stated https://tass.com/politics/1689939
>BISHKEK, October 11. /TASS/. Israel has been brutally attacked, but a settlement will be possible only through the establishment of an independent Palestine with East Jerusalem as its capital, Russian President Vladimir Putin said at the CIS summit.
>Russia proceeds "from the postulate a negotiated solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict has no alternatives."
>"The negotiations’ goal should be the implementation of the United Nations' two-state formula, which implies the creation of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, coexisting in peace and security with Israel, which, of course, as we have seen, has come under an attack of unprecedented brutality. Of course, it has the right to defend itself. It has the right to ensure its peaceful existence," Putin said, stressing that "it is crucial to work for resolving this issue by peaceful means."
>"The way I see it, in a situation like this and in this particular place, there is simply no alternative [to two independent states]," he concluded.Nuance, the faggiest bullshit of all.
Anyway, in other news, Germany has formally charged a Ukrainian for the Nordstream attack and claimed he was an officer in the Ukrainian military not some random Ukrainian ultranationalist.
Chances are that’s complete bollocks and it was the US carrying out their threat that Nordstream 2 will be taken away from Germany and Russia, but in any case it represents another correct prediction. That being Orban wasn’t the sole check on Ukraine’s influence within the EU via Von Der Leyen. Now that Orban is gone, all of a sudden Germany is pressing charges with Nordstream, the Poles are no longer ignoring the fact their neighbour promotes the historical genocide of Poles, I’m pretty sure Bulgaria’s leader said no more weapons for Ukraine, etc.
Obviously none of Ukraine’s transgressions warrant all support being cut, Poland will still send financial givas to people who want to genocide them (they’re stronk and independent, you see), but without Orban’s “unreasonable” opposition to ever escalating support for Ukraine, we’re now seeing “reasonable” opposition to Ukraine’s status as Europe’s best ally.
New doxxing, this time it’s Big Serge. He’s taken it well while TUA Research and their audience seem to be assuring each other that Serge’s family and friends aren’t already aware of his political opinions and that he’ll be fired from his government job in Idaho for his political opinions.
Other than just mocking people’s appearances, has doxxing actually achieved anything yet? Even with Vatnik Soup being outed as both a serial internet grifter and concentration camp masturbater, the effect on his character amongst both fans and enemies alike was nil.
It seems that this doxxing business depends on having your head so far up your own arse, you assume everyone is ready to lynch your detractors on your behalf and all that’s preventing that is ignorance of who your detractors actually are.
How many nothingburgers until they get tired of exposing themselves to the fact that while most in the west broadly abide by the narrative that Russia’s invasion is illegal and unprovoked, NAFOism is still extremely niche and while Ukraine gets to break the law all the time out of pity, I don’t think employers get to break the law in firing people for political opinions because some people online religiously spell it RuZZia and Putler.
>>2858093>I don’t think employers get to break the law in firing people for political opinions I think he'll probably be okay because he works for the state of Idaho. It's different with public agencies, because private employers can fire people in the U.S. for their political opinions. I don't think it's good, we should have laws protecting people from employment discrimination regarding their political opinions (especially because of social media now, and you get doxxed and then fired because you were posting memes), but that has never really been a thing here for private firms because the U.S. is historically very arch-liberal about that. But like I said he works for a state agency. I don't think he should be fired. And also, I wouldn't want to be fired for my opinions.
>Other than just mocking people’s appearances, has doxxing actually achieved anything yet?Idk. The main thing it seems to do is contrast the socially-constructed image that people create on the internet with their real life. This guy is posting about how he roots for the Harkonnens because they're really aesthetic and have high-T levels, and how he's a huge dude named Sergei who lifts weights, but he's actually a nerdy economist named Sam. It's fine to just be Sam. But everyone doing this is kind of like this. Will he lose any followers? Probably not, unless someone really believed the image and will be like "what? You mean he's not bigger than the Count Rabban??? I've been lied to!" But his followers are all kind of like him too, so I don't know if it matters. But it also goes back to the Pope avatar who lives in Ukraine and posts in this thread about the contrast between the epic valor that people think they're getting out of this war and the reality of it.
I never followed this guy, but IO read that he was tied up in "dissident right" stuff. This wasn't new information, he published under his Big Serge name for a magazine called IM-1776 and another one called Man's World. The editor of IM-1776 is a huge Marinetti fag and admires 1930s Italian architecture according to a quick scroll of his feed. Be evil! Well, okay, but in the U.S., these are your friends.
>>2858010Point is the war is not going to magically end the moment Kramatorsk falls. Why would it? The Donbas isn't important for the continued supply of weapons and manpower to the AFU. The reverse would be true too. If the AFU tomorrow take Donetsk, would Putin be forced to surrender?
>>2858053I don't feel the American angle makes sense, because gas kept flowing through Ukraine. I think a more sensible motive is that back in 2022 Bankova wanted to ensure continued access to transit fees and more importantly make themselves indispensable vis a vis Europe.
>>2858113I’m not much of a follower of his either and yeah I’ve come to accept that outside of this thread, most pro-Russian support is part and parcel with the alt-right (albeit not always for wholly incorrect reasons, often it is just Muh Church Goers, but sometimes it takes the form of questioning whether it’s the west’s responsibility to police the world, which is a naïve take but still..). That being said, people are entitled to present personas online that don’t align with their reality, arguably the internet was a better place when it wasn’t just an extension of reality that demands you upload your entire life to it.
I recall that the original purpose of doxxings was to prove that Russia was pervasive throughout Western MSM and Politics via paid for agents. That presumably reached the obvious conclusion of not finding any pictures of targets being slipped a fat envelope by a guy in an Ushanka, but instead resulting in threats of lawsuits and cease and desist letters.
Since then it has just been getting a look at the Xitter posters behind the anonymity and acting surprised that terminally online people look pretty much as you’d expect. In practice that’s the case anyway, in theory they seem to expect that by being associated with anti-Ukrainian sentiment their Mummy is going to disown them and their friends are going to WhatsApp them “Slava Ukraini” and then block their number, which is just hog wild to expect if you’ve ever had a family or real friends.
Occasionally they get doxxed back, but it’s wholly unsatisfying because NAFO and OSINT accounts are very much on the Ukrainian side because it’s the “correct” side and are therefore exceedingly pleased for the opportunity to self-promote, so much so they’re often found just posting their real identities with some meme shirt anyway on when they’re realising they’re not notable enough to be doxxed.
That being said, even in countries where your right to have a political opinion usually stops at the point of advocating violence. It’s all fun and games for NAFO at the moment during the zeitgeist of Ukraine and its supporters being infallible, but eventually I reckon they’re no longer going to want their faces associated with
years of posting gore and asking for more, memifying death as getting “bonked” and shit.
>>2858122Nothing in war “magically” ends it. That’s such an obviously flawed yardstick for whether victories are worth it, that again like with you not understanding what a statue is, I can only assume you’re being completely sincere in your lack of understanding.
Rather than explain the importance of Kramatorsk, I’ll let Ukrainian media explain it for you, naturally there’s plenty of pro-Ukrainian cushioning in there so perhaps you’ll watch it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TDtOoPc8rHA >>2858129Kinda lost sense of grammar at the end there, phoneposting is a terrible affliction.
>That being said, even in countries where you do have the right to a political opinion, that usually stops at the point of advocating and glorifying violence. >>2858045So this is anti imperialism with zizter characteristics
>>2858191You don't understand it's a very nuanced genocide apologia
>>2858045oh, he doesn't care about nuancing.
he's an anticommunist. if reality is Marxist (paraphrasing Che) what does it make of him when he rejects reality but an anti-Marxist, and by extension anti-Communist?
I bet every time he appeals a ban he tells mods 'ywnbaw' or some /pol/ tier screeching.
>>2858191>>2858194the only state on earth that asks a One-State solution that is Palestine is Iran.
now, is Iran neoliberal?
>>2858303I am making the question because I know who's behind most of the troll arguments in /lpol/
uses always the same insane rhetoric.
no one is good enough to counter us regime hegemony. no one. and from there, he bases his disruptive behavior. it's always the same.
>Yes
the same insane troll couldn't contain himself.
the Iranian thread proved Iran isn't neoliberal, but oh well.
anti-communist right wingers pretending to be leftists can't into actual macro-economic arguments.
>>2858340No actually Iran is worse than liberal as a religious theocracy.
>Ukraine and Germany are discussing mechanisms for the return of men of mobilization age.
>Working groups have already been established between the two countries' ministries, according to Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany Makeyev.
>>2857655Its a ganja war, them boyz tryna see what hood be puffing up the thickest comanche-ass indian smoke signal out here 💨🚬😤🔥🔥🔥🔥
>>2858129>Occasionally they get doxxed back, but it’s wholly unsatisfying because NAFO and OSINT accounts are very much on the Ukrainian side because it’s the “correct” side and are therefore exceedingly pleased for the opportunity to self-promote, so much so they’re often found just posting their real identities with some meme shirt anyway on when they’re realising they’re not notable enough to be doxxed.The other thing is that one of the biggest threats to "free speech" happens at a social level. That is in civil society. It's like getting drowned out / shouted down, the equivalent of getting downvoted on Reddit basically, and you just get buried so your comment is hidden. And these NAFO people identify with civil society, they don't see themselves outside of it, and they try to leverage that position to squash people. To whatever extent you can get in trouble with the police in Russia for taking a pro-Ukrainian position, I suspect a large number of people will also call you a traitor if you did that, and that has an effect. And then it also works in a similar way in Ukraine. It's more intense in those countries because they're directly involved.
>I’m not much of a follower of his either and yeah I’ve come to accept that outside of this thread, most pro-Russian support is part and parcel with the alt-right (albeit not always for wholly incorrect reasons, often it is just Muh Church Goers, but sometimes it takes the form of questioning whether it’s the west’s responsibility to police the world, which is a naïve take but still..). It's definitely a lot of Muh Church Going among more normie right-wingers in the U.S. in my direct experience with Russia sympathetic people on the right. I had a boomer neighbor who was like this and I got to know him a bit, kind of a funny story, he was considering converting to Orthodox Christianity. But I have to point out that Big Serge wrote articles for a magazine that has advertisements like this in it. I just scanned one of the issues, and read an article published by the Bronze Age Pervert (the editor… gee talk about gay Nazis… a lot of pics of oiled-up muscle guys too) in 2022 endorsing the invasion and his reasons were that the West is fake and gay, basically, and how it's going to somehow help us retvrn to our Hellenistic ideals or whatever. But I think it's a lot of self-help stuff dressed up in LARPing.
>>2858301>he's an anticommunist.Yeah, that's really all it is, commiephobia/russophobia.
>>2858010the new grill-pill is so idiotic. he used the word 'probably' to strawman a GINI index, without even coming back with the powers of his 'highly likely I am right'. drew a conclusion out of it, then walks away as if he didn't make a boo-boo, a pee-pee-poo-poo argument.
reminds me of right wing media figures in Latin-American politics, that make disingenuous claims with flamboyant headlines in the first page, then walk away. even if they apologize, their apology never reaches to the same level of audiences and it's relegated to the last page section of their news media.
I miss the
real grill pill. he was
funnier in a sense that he couldn't hide for a second his anti-communism, and his love for bandero-nazism.
this new co-opting user, does the pretending much more complicated, but they all find irresistible the urge of backing up nazism and and anti-communism.
[This pro-Putin post have been removed by the European Court of Justice]
>>2857998only burgers fall for this burger made bait
>>2859102So true, viva israel and pinochet
>>2859104ok burger
whatever u say burger
>>2859089Sadly you can't blame him too much he have to suck Trump's dick if he doesnt want him to chimp out and stop supporting Ukraine
>>2859097dat sand party looks very comfy
>>2859119Putin is doing the Chinese tactic of saying Trump is a really special big smart boy. Trump likes it when people say he's a big special boy.
>>2859121You have to pet the donkey in the direction of its hair.
Words on the streets ukronazi refugees got Peter Nimitz dismembered in his appartment
They are telling the story of "Peter Nimitz the dismembered financial consultant" on telegram…
Your ukrainian neighbor wants to kill you.
Your ukrainian neighbor is on his way to kill you.
Your ukrainian neighbor is knocking on your door with intention to kill you.
Your ukrainian neighbor just killed you.
>>2859145It was Ukrainian Terminator sent back from the future by Palantir™
>>2859021edgy boy believes that being edgy win wars.
>>2859021Medvedev should reply:
ladies go first:
>NEW: Poland's Defense Minister announces that, after consulting PM Tusk, he has ordered the declassification of all Polish military donations to Ukraine from 2022–2026.
what's the point? to let the world know that ukraine has spent n armies x n times and still couldn't retake what they lost 'up to pre 2014 borders'?
>>2859573Putin will sue for peace soon if he's smart
>>2859573>Al JazeeraThey're just mad Russia provides most of Israel's fuel
TANKS APPROACHING KREMLIN
POSSIBLE COUP
>>2859310They’re just buying time in the hopes
>>2859617 happens and that means manufacturing consent goes into overdrive.
>>2859813The MP who brought this to parliament (Tom Gordon) didn’t even put the mask on, the reason given for banning a children’s cartoon is because it
>promotes a positive view of Russia to a huge audience.that’s apparently cause to ban something, anything that’s not conducive to Russophobia is dangerous.
>“Masha and the Bear” a Russian cartoon streamed to British children on Netflix and ITVX, and flagged by Ukraine’s Centre for Countering Disinformation as a Russian soft power tool.
Also it appears I’m paying this guy’s salary to make policy based on what Ukraine says. Surely what Ukraine does or doesn’t flag as a “Russian soft power tool” is a complete irrelevance as far as British policy ought to be concerned, not a case of
>We’ll do this, because the Ukrainians did.
>>2859813Oi, you got a loicense for that cartoon, mate?
>>2859819They have also tried to cancel showings of The Nutcracker. Insane.
People will obviously go along with it because
>Bah! I didn’t like RT or Masha and the Bear anyway!
but the precedent is being set that the British (and EU) government can ban access to information simply because it’s sourced from another country. They’re being intentionally vague over the status of NATO being at war with Russia because such bans are pretty standard in open war, but they’re claiming they’re not at war. If we’re not at war then, by liberal reckoning, you can’t just ban information because you don’t like the source.
>>2859827Liberalism for me not for thee
>>2859826Tbh one of my concerns with this conflict is that Western governments are acting more and more like the Ukrainian one, like because it’s still verboten to question the politics of
Kiev Lvov, it means those politics become legitimised for use elsewhere.
Maybe some of the cultural bans are not unexpected for Ukraine, but banning shit that was fine for decades or even centuries and couldn’t possibly be related to the present circumstances, simply because it’s Russian and banning Russian stuff is peremoga over the orcs, Slava Ukraini! God save the King! is somewhat worrying.
No doubt we’ll also hear that Boris Johnson’s corruption isn’t really indicative of Westminster, it’s just, you know,
Boris.. that’s a bit Russian-y innit?
>>2859819>promotes a positive view of Russia to a huge audience.They are going after this cartoon in the baltics too. I had the unwisdom a while back of commenting on some estonian twitter thread about how "Russian propaganda is anything that questions the narrative that Russians are subhuman and not like the rest of us, is Russia propaganda now". Nafoids came to give me a piece of their mind, in swarms. Not to disagree in essence, just to call me a Putler propagandist for pointing out what they think in negative light. These people are spiritually israelis.
>>2859833And this is what I’m getting at, it starts off with dismissing the fascist rhetoric of Ukraine as merely memes and it’s fine to exploit it for the lolz, but eventually it infects society and before you know it “puts country x in a positive light” is a completely normal reason for banning information because unironically people believe it’s
impossible anything good or acceptable could come from there.
>>2859842>HamasIt’s unironically Zionist to equate Hamas with Palestine
ukraine has called a un security council bc of the recent bombings
Ah now this is where I have to critique AMK Mapping; They’ve reported on a small smokey fire in Omsk and states
>nearly 2,500 km from the nearest Ukrainian-controlled territory.
>This breaks the record for the deepest Ukrainian drone strike so far.
which it surely does considering neither the Liutyi nor FP-1 drone have that much range, at the same time though I’m sure he believes that all Ukrainian drones are launched from Ukrainian territory and fly solely over Russian territory.
How does that not appear strange to them that a drone that tops out at 2km has managed to reach 2.5km, likely pushing 4km if you take into account that the drone wouldn’t likely fly in a straight line from Ukrainian territory nor that the launch point is exactly on frontline but probably in the west of Ukraine somewhere.
That’s where his pro-Ukrainian bias becomes evident, despite the claims of NAFO suggesting he is a putinbot.
>>2859909Just one more small smokey fire and Ukraine will win by default
>>2859915It's not smokey because they weren't hitting barrels. There won't be much smoke from destroyed steel pipes and bems
>>2859910>>2859915Legendary levels of copium
>>2859916Sure but there’s a reason they target the barrels when they’re able to aim their shots, charitably I’d suggest it’s in the hopes that firefighting fails and it just burns through the entire refinery, but realistically it’s because smoke
implies a lot of damage whereas we can see that when it’s 50kgs against some pipework the damage is scarcely awe-inspiring.
>>2859917>CopiumPerhaps that’s what they’re filling the drones with to reach so much farther than their on-paper range is.
Yes, Russia rains down on Kiev with drones, missiles and bombs but that act releases enough copium to fuel a drone for thousands of additional miles.
>>2859909damn so ukrops can actually produce propaganda kino that isn't just nonstop gore posting…angry birds is a funny reference you gotta hand it to them…although I don't know what the fuck is going on in the bottom part why is there a random raccoon and random babyfaces below?
Is it okay if I was more impressed with that warehouse of anti-air missiles in Kiev cooking off? That’s the kind of target I’m personally interested in.
>>2859899>How does that not appear strange to them that a drone that tops out at 2km has managed to reach 2.5kmMaybe they build a new model. Also most militaries keep the maximum range of a lot of weapons classified.
>>2860041ukrainians are already snarkily and bitterly bitting zelya's head off.
lmao.
>>2860041this is going to be the next theme of the next thread, fyi.
>>2860041>40-day operation to pressure Russia to end the warThere is a Nato meeting starting tomorrow. Z wants to look like a good investment and successful wartime leader when they eventually get into talking for more money for Ukraine. He has no intention for peace.
>>2860027The guy who runs Fire Point claims that the FP-1 now has a range of 3200km which is double that of prior claims. You simply can’t double the range of the same airframe, the weight of the additional fuel would have to involve a significant redesign and likely a reduction in payload weight. Unless the motor it’s using involves a quantum leap in doubling its efficiency, I think the more straightforward answer comes from what we’ve seen in recent months.
That being these exact same FP-1 drones being found crashing over territory that is neither Ukrainian or Russian, as well as Ukrainian footage of them being launched via a civilian truck. So it’s going to be launched from another country that’s a lot closer or it’s going to be smuggled via trucks closer to the refinery or both without the host country knowing.
There’s the claim that the US helps plan these attacks and I think that’s not solely something pro-Russian Xitter says, I recall perhaps the Financial Times reporting that as well, and the assumption is that support is in plotting paths for the drones to follow which may be the case, but honestly I think the support the US is providing is negotiating a window with Russia’s neighbours to use their airspace or even territory for an impromptu launch site.
Like aside from the obvious benefit in having a mobile launching system doing the “shoot and scoot” thing, you have to wonder why specifically it takes the form of a civilian truck? Perhaps it’s good (albeit illegal) camouflage until Russia catches on and starts targeting random trucks (which they have), but I think it’s a fair guess to assume it’s primarily for crossing borders to launch. Perhaps crossing the Russian border, perhaps crossing someone else’s border and the US has the connections and the money to ensure the border security for a given country is a bit relaxed on a certain night.
>>2860054To be clear, you can see in the videos the drones look identical to Liutyi drones, so they’re definitely not a new model.
Ukrainian civilian casualties have notably increased with these recent attacks on Kiev, but targets like that warehouse was throwing AA missiles off in all directions and it appears it was very close, again, to residential areas.
Pro-Ukrainian Xitter really, really wants that buried under Omsk footage, but perhaps this is what “taking the gloves off” looks like, grasping the nettle and attacking targets the Banderites have placed dangerously close to civilians.
So yeah if these drone attacks against oil refineries are openly confirmed to be entirely about sieging Russian civilians (with the Crimeans being the most vulnerable to this) to create unrest, then the way you prevent unrest is by quelling the concern that Moscow treats civilians in Ukraine as off limits when Ukrainians openly make civilian life in Russia their battlefield. Like what was the expected outcome for Kiev when even this is simply tit for tat? It’s the lowest possible expectation of going all in on civilian infrastructure when you’ve placed all of your targets next to civilians.
By no means am I jumping for joy about this, but you know; play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
>>2860049but then as with the 2014 ATO or the summer 2023 crimean beach party, when they put a number to unrealistic deadlines, they simply crash into a wall.
it's not like they can change the inevitable with more gaslight.
>>2860072the Vizar plant exploded into the air so hard, they became the new ghost of kiev.
first round of videos.
>>2860090>>2860093last round of videos.
gee, I wonder, do explosions defeat smokes or is there a smoke-to-explosion-defeat chart conversion somewhere laying around nafo's desks?
Although I could be entirely wrong, I’m going to say that we’re basically at the end of the conflict now. I think the NATO calls for a ceasefire depended on Ukraine holding the entire Kramatorsk agglomeration to refortify it to keep the conflict primarily contained to Donbass and that’s now no longer possible.
Therefore, I do think we’re finally at plan Z, just do whatever is necessary to create FUD in Russia in the hopes that somehow Russia collapses quietly and peacefully without nukes either being launched at NATO or falling into the hands of a faction that really shouldn’t have them during a Civil War.
Apart from that very much being a Operation Unthinkable for the 21st Century, there are obviously cards Moscow still holds, like targeting stuff that either intentionally or unintentionally on the part of Kiev carries a high risk of collateral damage, resulting in attitudes like this
>>2860043 which could and probably will backfire on Banderites.
At the moment there’s the ever present assumption that Ukrainian civilians will tolerate anything and thus they needn’t be considered. If they’re attacked after Russia has been provoked, great, just means more givas for Zelensky. But history has demonstrated that
such a mercenary attitude towards one’s own people in favour of one’s self basically never works out.
Yes you can screenshot this and yes you can post it a year from now when I’m inevitably wrong and we’re still here.
>>2860055Hmm. That makes sense. Longer range maybe.
>>2860101>I’m going to say that we’re basically at the end of the conflict nownaah I don't think so. Putin already said the want Novorossiya.
Unless the US regime (nato basically) offers something Russia can't possibly reject. And even so. they've seen the 'anchorage spirit' becoming the anchorage fart. the Minsk I, and II becoming jokes, the Istanbul accord becoming the boris-johnson-buying-time plan.
I am waiting for mike pompeo to screech about the neptune plant in Vyshneve. lmao, he's the director of that shit. or was. dunno if the leadership changed, after so much corruption scandals going on.
>>2860096I heard that lines to the gas stations have disappeared, too
ITT Russian chauvinists jerking off over strategic bombing videos like israelis
>>2860054The list of enterprises that were targeted according to the Russian Ministry of Defense:
> The "Kiev-71" enterprise, specializing in the production of UAVs
> The "Burevestnik" plant, which manufactures UAVs
>"Kuznitsa na Rybalskom" shipbuilding plant, where the "Gyurza-M" artillery boats are produced
>➡️ LLC "Ukr Armotech", one of the key manufacturers and suppliers of armored vehicles.
>The Kiev Shipbuilding Plant (shipyard) - the largest machine-building enterprise, which produces artillery boats of the 58155 "Gyurza-M" project, as well as the production and repair of unmanned strike boats
>The "Kvant" instrument-making plant, which produces "Neptune-MD" missiles.
>The "Vizar" machine-building plant in Zhulyany, where anti-aircraft missile systems are repaired
>The fuel and lubricant warehouse in Vishnevo (the "Nefteeksperimentalnoe KP"), a key experimental-production and engineering-technical base specializing in the design, calibration and maintenance of fuel station reservoir parks. The stored reserves of gasoline and diesel are used for emergency fuel deliveries to the combat zone.the question is: can they produce them again?
>like israelis
god, how I wish Palestinians received half the military aid ukraine receives.
lmao.
>>2860113>naah I don't think so. Putin already said the want NovorossiyaSo what bourgeois faction is going to overthrow Putin?
>>2860147none. UR seems to have come to terms to the fact that they won't be rich anymore by selling raw materials for the eu and us some time ago.
>>2860147>>2860155that doesn't mean another yeltsin couldn't come up, but I don't think this time someone like that would have a chance.
>>2860113Sure I just think that we’re going to see some rather concerning escalations this year and it will ultimately come down to assuming that the Ukrainian population with the busification, the corruption, the removal of democratic input, the obvious destruction of their future, etc their tolerance towards the conflict will nevertheless outlast the Russian population whose government has done everything to isolate them from the conflict so far.
I expect what Ukraine is aiming for is Russia implementing general mobilisation under the assumption that will cause the population to revolt, and so they (with NATO’s assistance of course) will do everything they can to get Russia to declare total war, short of
openly targeting civilians directly, since that may very well make mobilisation popular.
However, I think their assumptions are wrong as the assumption that your population will forever tolerate
anything for King and Country is usually wrong. Russia’s attempts to protect their population from the effects of the conflict suggests they also believe this assumption is wrong.
>>2860109>Longer range maybe. As they’d need to be, because there’s no guarantee that the trucks even start their journey in Ukraine, they may be leased and loaded up in another third party country to drive to the destination third party country.
>>2860155Well, China is a better market than EU. China is agnostic in regards to you being communist, fascist, liberal or even a filthy social-democrat, they won't suddenly ban your goods simply because you persecute minorities or not buy Chinese weapons or, gods forbid, even if you decide to develop your own industries. China is nice like that. And EU and American markets are nice bonus to Chinese base.
Meanwhile, China refuses to let America into China's energy sector and EU into China's manufacturing. Or rather, EU cannot compete with Chinese goods, so China doesn't bother doing about them anything. USA,though, is not allowed into Chinese market, period, because China actually wants to destroy USA economically by denying them any source of foreign revenues.
>>2860184EU & Chinese manufacturing is actually quite connected and intertwined and beneficial to both sides. The usual liberal EUrocrat retard cucks like to shoot against China relations to please Washington, but EU manufacturing porky usually intervenes quickly to avoid serious damage in EU-China relations. That can change anytime though depending on various factors. EU porky used to maintain mutually beneficial relations with Russia as well.
>>2860394the other day I was readin some eu press, and literally used the language that american think tanks said about Russian oil and gas.
that the US needed to drill shale and fracking oil/gas to
'empty the coffers' of Russssshiiiia. the eu press 'it's important to have sanctions on RuSShia to empty their coffers' lmao. copy and paste.
>>2858133I'm not saying Kramatorsk is irrelevant. I'm saying that capturing the city isn't going to alter the trajectory of the war of attrition. I again raise the inverse; if tomorrow the AFU 'captured' Donetsk, would the war end? Would Putin be forced to capitulate?
>>2858560I made that assumption ('probably') because I couldn't find the source (link) and you afaik didn't post it. I found another graph (pic 3) based on Rosstat figures (
https://www.iep.ru/ru/doc/41074/income-inequality-in-russia-to-stop-growing-in-2025-4-177-march-2025-g.pdf) which looks very similar. With income inequality rising slightly, or remaining roughly the same ever since Putin took office.
These also just so happen to align with the figures of the first graph you posted.
>idiotic, strawman, flamboyant, disingenuousHave you considered not revolving your identity around taking sides in a conflict involving countries not even on the same continent as the one you're on?
You won't see me behave like this when it comes to Ukraine.
>>2860764let me explain your strawman: You haven't show any graph, 'survey' (not the word. both
survey but survey different things) that starts from 1990 to 2025 to show how:
>>2860764just to clarify what you don't know, because you are facing someone with a mastery in macroeconomics:
<First-third picture picture:>Gaidar/Rosstat: essentially official survey-based (with Rosstat's standard statistical adjustments).<Second picture:>NPZ (2017): not survey-based alone; it is a hybrid reconstruction designed to estimate the income distribution beyond what surveys capture. but it's also a survey.(found in Russian wikipedia)
the second one starts in 1990.
I used one from 1990 to show how UR controlled the inequality. one of the many reasons Putin is loved, but also, showing that the KPFR has contributed significantly to the reduction of poverty, too.
now, will daddy bandera help you to produce a gini index that includes tax heavens and such from 1990 to 2025 one without tax heavens but also from 1990 to 2025 or will you be busy shoveling the remains of the vizar military plant in kiev?
yay or nay?
>>2860876>mastery in macroeconomics:*masters degree in economics
holly false friends.
how is it going?
>>2860764you are embarrassing
>>2860764>if tomorrow the AFU 'captured' Donetsk, would the war end? Would Putin be forced to capitulate?Yes.
The problem is you think attritional warfare is the end rather than the means, you go to war just to do some attrition, that attrition in of itself is a goal worthy of going to war for.
Which in all honesty is unsurprising because that’s the claim Ukrainian media makes when it’s manufacturing consent for refusing to accept defeat despite retaking all 1991 borders seeming unlikely.
>The conflict is solely about attrition, look at this graph showing how much attrition we’re achieving against Russia, the dumb fuck orcs think this conflict is about liberating villages lmao, they’re just ignoring the attrition in favour of the low hanging fruit of liberating Donbass Novorossiya, even if they succeed at their silly little war in capturing territory we’ve already won because 100:1 K/D ratio and damaged oil infrastructure! I realise that most of the people I debate ITT all basically are making the same point
>But I like being on Ukraine’s hype train
and I attract the most ire because most of my posting is just disputing that hype and reminding people that conflicts aren’t like getting Trump elected or sending Bitcoin to the moon, you can’t hype your way into manufacturing military reality like you can with speculative “realities”.
>>2860764>Inequality skyrocketing in Russia>Putin was so mad over the news that he ordered his statistical agency to use a new formula that downplays inequalityLOL maybe that retard shouldn't have banned nationalization and kept business taxes low. It turns out that when the bourgeoisie are coddled that inequality shoots up who could have predicted it????
>>2861042I get the Molotov cocktail, but what’s the other thing it’s holding?
>>2861035Well if it didn't come from Ukraine where did it come from? Kazakhstan? That's the only plausible one really. Is Kazakhstan assisting Ukrainian attacks on Russia?
(I don't think so.) Maybe they have just extended the range on their drone.
>>2861044Looks like a mace because they like to larp as cossack hetmen. It's a trad warrior thing.
>>2861035Damn it smokes a lot.
>>2861048Like I said, we’ve seen FP-1s being launched out of civilian trucks. Kazakhstan is a big place and frankly is also how a lot of sanctioned goods get imported into Russia. It doesn’t necessarily require Astana’s approval, just Astana’s unwillingness to investigate how Ukrainian and Russian operations alike are using their country.
If it was an entirely different, larger, more sturdy model of drone, then it’d be plausible that perhaps they’ve produced one with that kind of range, but it is unmistakably an FP-1 drone and while they may have understated the range on paper initially, I think it’s not a coincidence that the “real” range gets revealed when the Kramatorsk agglomeration is being breached.
Likewise there’s so many problem with “just extending the range” of a given drone, I’m not an aeronautical engineer but a few issues are
>More fuel requires more weight >Strengthening the airframe in turn means also more weight>Because the drone is heavier, the engine needs to work harder to maintain enough speed to not stall, this wastes fuel you’ve expended your weight budget on in the first place>Fit a bigger engine that doesn’t struggle with the weight, but it too is also bigger and heavier, airframe again needs to be modified to fit the larger engine>The airframe is now larger and therefore less aerodynamic, the engine needs to be powerful enough to accommodate both the weight increases as well as the increase in drag>The changes in weight and balance from all of this means that all the automated flight controls need to be redesigned to workAnd it goes on and on like that basically. You have to essentially build a drone for that range as an initial design goal, you can’t just jerry rig another fuel tank on an existing drone and double the range, at least not without serious compromises that these drones don’t appear to have had, and a design phase that would exceed that of a clean sheet design anyway.
You can have situations where newer technology can be retrofitted to aircraft, but turning a relatively short range suicide drone into a propeller driven ICBM is unpractical.
>>2861053Impractical* rather
Basically you can have the design goal of a drone being able to fold multiple of them (with launcher) into a standard truck trailer and you can have the design goal of transcontinental range, you just can’t modify the former into the latter. They’re entirely different design goals and if you’ve already had the design goal of making the drones able to be smuggled as civilian cargo, literally what would be the point of then deciding that actually no we want the same drones to fly to Omsk without such skullduggery?
>>2861053<Strengthening the airframe in turn means also more weightNot necessarily. Depends on the materials. You can get stronger and lighter with carbon fiber compared to aluminum like in this video for an unrelated aircraft. They redesigned the wings and filled them with fuel. (I'm not an aerospace engineer either but I fuck with 3D printing so I'm a little familiar with carbon fiber.)
>You have to essentially build a drone for that range as an initial design goal, you can’t just jerry rig another fuel tank on an existing drone and double the range, at least not without serious compromises that these drones don’t appear to have had,You'd have to redesign the drone yeah, but there's pictures of thing and it looks like the FP-1 and it has new wings.
>turning a relatively short range suicide drone into a propeller driven ICBM is impractical.To attack an oil refinery? Idk. It seems very practical to me, a lot cheaper too. The aerodynamic physics are complicated for laymen like us, but there are a bunch of companies that are making new types of drones and aircraft all the time. These are not high-performance fighter jets. They just have one job. The average FP-1 apparently costs around $55,000.
Really getting into it, the FP-1’s design is clearly not oriented towards long range. Primarily the issue it’s its rather long, thick and perpendicular wings, they’re good for when you need the drone to fly low and slow under radar cover (I.e at near stall speed, down low where the air is thickest and thus the most lift), but are entirely inefficient for range concerns.
If it’s slow, it loses a load of efficiency because you can’t rely on momentum to maintain an easy cruise speed. The wings with their length and thickness produce loads of drag unless you are flying so high you’re up in the stratosphere where the air is so thin it necessitates such wings.
It’s inconceivable that these drones could carry enough fuel to struggle against drag at sea-level and the engines at full throttle fighting with near-stall speeds to avoid coming up on Russian radar for that distance.
>>2861064But if you’ve got the budget for carbon fibre then why would you waste adapting an existing airframe designed around aluminium, which isn’t as easy as just “make it out of carbon fibre instead”, that’s an entirely different method of production and exhibits different structural qualities that the existing drone isn’t designed around.
Even if you force it anyway, then the drone isn’t going to cost $55,000 but multiple magnitudes more than that and again, at that point you’ve lost the design goal of being inexpensive and therefore not designing an expensive bespoke drone for the attack would be highly illogical captain.
>>2861070Not significant enough to either represent a different design goal for the wing being low-drag efficiency nor bigger or thick enough to significantly increase the wing loading to carry potentially twice the fuel.
Quite possibly it represents a production change for either improving stability or ease of fabrication.
>>2861006>Point out graphs and official figures (including those posted by FARCanon himself) show inequality is still higher than when Putin took office, or at best (by a different metric) only slightly lower (but still higher than much of the west/NATO)<This makes me embarrassingOkay
>>2860872That graph you posted (first image) is sourced from the same data as the third image. And I was referring to 1999, as in, if you take the year Yeltsin left office, according to these official figures there was no improvement.
>>2860876United Russia was founded in late
2001. I don't know how this "fiscal/national income" gini coefficient compares to 2025, because I haven't found data extending to 2025. So all I can do is judge it by this 'survey income' figure. Which, in 2024 was higher than in
2001.
>will daddy bandera help you to produce a gini index that includes tax heavens and such from 1990 to 2025 one without tax heavens but also from 1990 to 2025 or will you be busy shoveling the remains of the vizar military plant in kiev?Not relevant. I'm going by official statistics here. You were the one who originally started this argument. Which was that the gini coefficient decreased since the 1990s. Except it's still higher than the
last year Yeltsin was in office. And it's higher than "neoliberal shitholes" like… Canada. See
>>2856626 for the start of this.
And just operationally; Ukraine is currently droning civilian oil tankers en masse, attacking oil infrastructure specifically to “bring the conflict to the Russian population”, putting their military storage in residential areas and repeatedly utilise unwitting Russian civilians in military operations with that sometimes resulting in their deaths, all outrageously illegal so I don’t think smuggling drones into another country to launch them is somehow too illegal for Ukraine’s tastes or too much for supporters to turn a blind eye to.
>>2861030The war's over when it's over. There is no territorial milestone before either side will be forced to capitulate, excepting maybe Kyiv or Moscow. There is nothing in Kramatorsk or Donetsk that, if captured by either side, would prevent the war from continuing elsewhere.
>refusing to accept defeat despite retaking all 1991 borders seeming unlikely. Is itself a form of copium. The war ends when shooting stops, until then any victory narrative (including Ukrainian) is copium.
<Why won't the Taliban/Ayatollahs/Hamas/Hezbollah/Syrian Very Moderate Rebels admit they've lost????Same energy
>>2861078I see you’ve opted to just double down on attrition being the end rather than the means.
>>2861076Every time people like you use such arguments, it's exceedingly clear that it's done in bad faith. Would I like it if the Bolsheviks came back to power? Yes. Do I understand that the west seeks to snuff out my people and destroy everything positive that still exists anywhere in the former Soviet Union? Also yes. No argument changes the fact that Ukraine in the current ultranationalist form is Israel and that its existence is fundamentally illegitimate and must be ceased.
As an aside, seeing some schizophrenia on pro-Ukrainian xitter again in the form of both lmao’ing @ Russian air defences not being numerous enough to cover all of Siberia thousands of km away from the frontline, while also demanding to speak to Lockheed Martin’s manager over Patriot supplies
>>2861080Critique is fundamentally bad faith now? Even though I or Sabo weren't the ones who started it? Lel
>destroy everything positive that still exists anywhere in the former Soviet UnionThere's more to life than this Manichean struggle between Imperialism and Anti-Imperialism, Communism and Capitalism or whatever you think is going on over in the Donbas.
People still go to work, hang out, touch grass, fuck, get married over in eastern Europe. Nothing has changed in that sense.
>Ukraine in the current ultranationalist form is IsraelHysterical
>>2861079On the contrary, I understand the war of attrition is a means to a particular end. But the war will not end because some ends have been achieved. All this pouting and sulking about one side refusing to "admit they've lost" is a bunch of copium and an inability to understand that wars end when one sides gives up or lacks the means to continue the conflict. It's not bound up in when either side considers they've "won".
>>2861081Both can be true. There seems to be a lack of AD on both sides.
Why didn't the Russians just stay Communist? They would have kept half of Europe as their allies and not been under any threat from any other European country. Are they retarded?
>>2861082>People still go to work, hang out, touch grass, fuck, get married over in eastern Europe. Nothing has changed in that sense.Ukraine is quite literally doing the most it can to change that. It is doing its best to fuck people over, including in my oblast. They have made me uncomfortable several times, the fact that there isn't more in the way of my civilian life is something they really want to change. I understand that pro-Ukraine people don't consider Russians human, but it also quite successfully destroyed normal civilian life in Ukraine to a huge extent and every provocation it does has the intent of turning the conflict into WWIII and as such ending normal civilian life in all of Eastern Europe.
>HystericalPro-regime Ukrainians themselves are quite proud of both the association with Nazi Germany and Israel, if you ever check their discourse. Materially, both serve the same purpose as military outposts of western capital, civilian life there comes second to this function.
>>2861092I’d add as well that’s it’s not that oil refinery strikes have the
side-effect of affecting people’s livelihoods, it has been repeatedly stated by Zelensky that disrupting civilian life in Russia is the purpose of the oil refinery attacks and pro-Ukrainians in the aftermath of such attacks
never postulate what the effects will be at the front but rather how many civilians it will affect.
There was a very brief attempt at explaining why oil refineries are a military target, but it’s Ukraine, so it’s superfluous for them to legitimise anything they do, as everything they do gets full support and celebration amongst those who normally uphold themselves as the origin of international law anyway.
>>2861092>They have made me uncomfortable several timesYeah that's the thing about war, retard
>>2861038Rostat never used a different strategy for GINI measurement since its inception.
measuring tax heavens influence in inequalities measurements IMHO is stupid because it's an approximation, an approximations are subjective, subjective assessments gives you subjective results: ask yourself the question, if it's known who and what is in a tax heaven, that are precisely designed to avoid state taxes, what makes you think the state won't get them to pay taxes?
that's why no central bank, no statistics or economics government linked institution uses DINA correction methods. DINA correction style methods use macro-level "accounting discrepancies" to reach to some conclusions that can be explained by two words:
western sanctions.
but hey,
muh le putin is ebint. nafo.
>>2861156Well maybe the Hohols shouldn’t have started shit then
>>2861076>still no GINI since 1990keep shoveling the debris, you salty pseud.
>Except it's still higher than the last year Yeltsin was in office. And it's higher than "neoliberal shitholes" like… Canadaboyo, are you illiterate in English?
no GINI since 1990, no right to talk.
Wait… are they seriously eyeballing GINI by adding speculative offshore holdings? Lol, lmao even
>>2861160
>How to impress US bourgeoisie
<Step 1: Praise Pinochet
And it worked until Putin became president and curtailed shock therapy, a distinctly un-Pinochet-like act which certainly unimpressed the US.
>>2861248yup. new papiez wants to use a couple of gini stats I presented that one included the 90s and the other didn't to make believe, along with sabocat, that now GINI in Russia is higher even during the yeltsin era.
>>2856775 (sabo) and
>>2856747 defending sabo.
the whole argument started because they want to make believe that the KPFR is an illusory opposition party. in contraposition to the borderlands that outright banned every goddamn socialist, left-wing, communist, and any other similar party. so smart!
most of the DINA-style correction GINIs out there confuse unrecorded capital with missing capital, making their data an illusion of "errors and omissions" rather than proof of tax evasion. that's why I said
western sanctions explain more what's going on.
I used that only to show the reduction since the 90s because the one since 1999 wasn't showing a whole picture. but then I got bandera papiez confusing them
>>2856747, while pretending he's not confusing them (>>2856760) but in fact doesn't know what he's talking about ("survey" ?), and confuses me with someone else entirely.
fun ride.
>>2861249I simply, and from now on, will report that poster whenever he posts that screenshot. it's not good-faith engagement. he has been told in so many different ways.
particularly the one that
people change that should be enough, is completely ignored, so he's not actively engaging in good faith.
I guess criminals in the justice system belong forever to the jail. no reform, simply must stay in jail forever.
>>2861205Ok but that's war
>>2861092From experience, normal civilian life in Ukraine continues. It's not a binary you know; banal everyday life continues even though there's a war going on.
>>2861240>1990Why is this relevant? The original point was about comparing Russia to 'neoliberal shitholes' like Canada, then it was Putin reducing income inequality during his time in office (with help from the KRPF supposedly), now it's about comparing it to 1990 (i.e. Soviet era).
According to
Rosstat's official figures, income inequality in Russia according to the Gini index is worse than it was when Putin took office.
So let's try this again; What year did Putin become president? When was United Russia founded? What was the Gini coefficient according to
Rosstat's official figures during those years and what was it in recent years?
>>2861256>the whole argument started because they want to make believe that the KPFR is an illusory opposition party. in contraposition to the borderlands that outright banned every goddamn socialist, left-wing, communist, and any other similar party. so smart!My argument was a lot more nuanced. I'm asking if any time a communist party tries to take action, and it ends up being sabotaged, it's candidates are banned, it's offices raided, bourgeois owned media launch smear campaigns against them and so on. What difference it makes if the party is outright banned? Why is only the latter "anti-communist"? How does the SMO further the aims of the communist movement inside Russia?
I'm still waiting btw how this argument wouldn't justify the burgerreich and Israel bombing Iran, because the latter also banned communist parties whilst the former haven't.
>western sanctionsInteresting point, but whilst that might excuse stagnation and higher figures, it doesn't mean they've decreased since 1999.
>Why is this relevant?
>What year did Putin become president? When was United Russia founded?
>no correlation at all between the 90s and the incerase after UR rose to pwoer.
gee I wonder, if there's so much capital flight, is there no enough capital created, is it possible to have wealth inequality to measure?
same argument applies to Canada's gini, as I commented in the last thread:
no gdp increase, no wealth to be hoarded, no high gini, only low gini.
that's why important all the yetlsin era GINI to put into context.
>My argument was a lot more nuanced
lol it wasn't.
>>2861073>nor bigger or thick enough to significantly increase the wing loading to carry potentially twice the fuel.You don't really know that for sure though. Also they might not need to double the fuel, maybe 25% more fuel + more efficient wing pushes it far enough to get there. And they could have been lying about the maximum distance on the earlier model, or giving a more conservative estimate (and they have every reason to do that because they don't want Russia to know how far it can actually go). Like the official "range" here is really the
minimum range but your car can travel farther on an empty tank than in the manufacturer recommended specs. Not that far, but either way, we wouldn't really know unless we actually had some of these machines and could test them ourselves. Nobody has solid proof either way other than what they can glean from photos.
Indiretly related but the maximum speed of warships is almost always classified BTW. The amount of secrecy around submarines is also crazy.
>>2861338>You don't really know that for sure though.Neither are the people pointing out the wing geometry has slightly changed.
But I think I’ve made a reasonable point that the FP-1 is designed to be launched from a civilian truck which means it can cover thousands of kms undetected without flying, it’s therefore illogical, impractical and likely impossible to completely change the design goal of the FP-1 to instead fly such distances.
Especially when you consider the compromises that must have gone into the design goal of making it as cheap as possible and able to be launched out of the back of a truck. In fact we already know of one compromise, one specifically concerning fuel/space/weight, the FP-2 is a shorter ranged drone that trades fuel space for a larger warhead, no doubt a result of the need for the airframe to be smuggle-able putting a tight limit on space and weight.
It’s horses for courses, they designed the drone to cover thousands of kilometres in the back of a civilian truck, the drone stuck a target thousands of kilometres from the frontlines, it can be considered a success therefore.
And honestly what’s the actual counter to this analysis? That the Ukrainian Government and Fire Point claimed the drones covered the distance? That for some reason they kept the drone’s true range a secret for nearly two years of targeting Russian oil infrastructure?
>>2861416>That it's easier to believe FP modified their drones for longer rangeSo yes, because that’s what the Ukrainian government claimed.
Then what’s the point of building a launcher for FP-1 drones into a civilian truck trailer? What conceivable benefit would that provide otherwise?
>>2861421Okay but why a civilian truck? Why a disguise that would allow it to travel on long distance haulage routes undetected specifically?
Like HIMARS is difficult to target for the same reason of shooting and scooting, it just doesn’t sacrifice its off-road abilities to disguise itself as a civilian cargo truck.
>Really this is moving the goalposts from there was just a puff of smoke to well there were drones but they were launched from… somewhere else
How is that moving the goalposts btw?
>So it’s going to be launched from another country that’s a lot closer or it’s going to be smuggled via trucks closer to the refinery or both without the host country knowing.
Perhaps this also wasn’t clear enough, by “closer to the refinery” I mean within Russia like with Operation Spiderweb. I think you’ll agree that both involved civilian trucks and could count as “Tom Clancy Shit”?
>>2861423>Okay but why a civilian truck?If you disguise weapons by concealing their launchers inside ordinary shipping containers and commercial trucks, they are harder for your enemy to identify until they launch. Especially when both sides now use A.I. to visually train their targeting systems to recognize various types of enemy weapons.
>Like HIMARS is difficult to target for the same reason of shooting and scooting, it just doesn’t sacrifice its off-road abilities to disguise itself as a civilian cargo truck.Yeah, it can move off road. But maybe Ukraine wants something that's both cheap and hard to detect.
>>2861428>Perhaps this also wasn’t clear enough, by “closer to the refinery” I mean within Russia like with Operation Spiderweb.I suppose it's possible.
so who tf is winning this shit
>>2861438>they are harder for your enemy to identify until they launch.It also means you don’t have to launch anywhere Russia could reasonably expect, like not within Ukraine. In fact since the video civilian trucks in Ukraine have become targets, so that’s already blown cover.
>I suppose it's possible.It is possible because we’ve got both evidence of them using civilian trucks as FP-1 launchers, reports of FP-1s crashing over other territories and precedent with Ukraine having used civilian trucks from within Russia to launch FPV drones against a target that was well out of range otherwise.
There’s just no reason to be this certain that Ukraine’s claims are the truth, even if you treat the engineering concerns as nil point on the basis of neither of us being professional aeronautical engineers.
And to bring it back full circle, who amongst the pro-Ukrainian crowd really cares if the drones flew all the way or got trucked close to the target? The only purpose really for claiming the drones flew all the way is to suggest it’s easily repeatable, at the same time, pro-Ukrainians are trained to declare any attack to result in a total loss for Russia and the target can be ticked off the list. Omsk may never be attacked again in this conflict, but it doesn’t matter, it’s already on the list as a total loss that won’t refine another drop of crude for years, if ever.
>>2861256They do anything but calculate economies in national currencies. They really love the idea of universal USD and universal GDP
>>2861439Elon Musk (not a single one of his Starlink satellites was shot down by Russia, and he proved his reliability to the Pentagon so he'll feast on military contracts for the next 20 years).
Just an excerpt, but particularly relevant to this thread:
https://shanakaanslemperera.substack.com/p/the-reload-warThe Contract and the Calendar
>On June 24, 2026, two documents left Washington within hours of each other, and the space between them is where this entire story lives.
>The first was a contract record: Lockheed Martin, sole source, 35,327,237,604 dollars for THAAD interceptors, one of the largest missile procurement awards in modern American defense history, with performance running to June 2032. Of that sum, 842,871,672 dollars was obligated at award. The second was a letter from the White House budget office asking Congress for 87.6 billion dollars in emergency supplemental funding for the war, 67.15 billion of it for military operations and, per Breaking Defense, 21 billion to recoup munitions and shore up the industrial base, because, as the Center for Strategic and International Studies documented the week before, neither the FY2026 budget nor the FY2027 request had included war costs at all. The Secretary of Defense had earlier floated a total envelope approaching 200 billion dollars. The FY2027 defense request itself has been characterized at 1.5 trillion dollars, with appropriators already complaining that missiles funded through the reconciliation vehicle arrive with no delivery schedules attached in the justification books, which means part of the rearmament is, on paper, a promise with no date.
>Read the two June documents closely together and the illusion dissolves quickly. A contract is a promise. A delivered interceptor is a cleared fact. The FY2027 request seeks 857 THAAD interceptors against a production history that, by CSIS’s reconstruction of budget exhibits, averaged 28 delivered per year over the past five years. Deliveries from that request begin in mid-2029. The 3,203 Patriot interceptors requested begin arriving in May 2029, from lines currently producing around 650 per year with roughly half committed to 18 other partner nations. The 785 Tomahawks requested begin arriving in March 2030, from a program that averaged 86 missiles per year over the past decade and has recently run below 200.
>The Pentagon has already re-sequenced what exists. Updated FY2027 schedules show earlier THAAD orders redirected to American inventory ahead of allied customers, with missiles bought in FY2025 now delivering through 2026. Japan’s 400 Tomahawks have reportedly been delayed. Saudi Arabia waits on a 360 interceptor order from 2017, the Emirates on 96 from 2022. Ukraine’s access now runs through a mechanism in which allies pay for weapons drawn from American stocks, and President Zelensky has stated the arithmetic no communique will: every Patriot fired in the Middle East is one fewer available for Ukraine.
>The money is definitely real. The orders are real. The re-sequencing is real. None of it changes the sentence that governs everything else in this piece: the market prices the contract, while the adversary prices the clearance chain.>>2861489https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/ukrainian-authorities-panic-as-patriotshttps://archive.ph/FRBm9
>This particular piece states that the 2,000 per year target isn’t expected to be reached until the end of the 2030s. The challenges are many:
<Lockheed is facing a litany of challenges to hit its target, from component bottlenecks to tight markets for local labor. A Lockheed spokeswoman said the company is working with the government and its suppliers to “eliminate bottlenecks and shorten lead times wherever possible, while still maintaining the rigorous performance and safety standards required.”
>Shockingly, the article states that each single Pac-3MSE missile takes over two years to build.
>Granted, there are many being built at the same time, but the total lead time for the manufacture of all the different parts, and then final assembly—which itself takes six weeks—apparently totals over the two year mark. The main reason is that there are over 400 different companies supplying parts to this single missile type, which all manufacture their various components at different rates and scales. The components themselves then all have to be individually tested before final delivery. This entire complex process explains why expanding the supply chains all at once is nearly impossible, and why the ambitious goal of 2,000 per year will likely never be even remotely approached. >>2861489>>2861543that happens when you export all of your technological non-military advanced manufacturing processes outside and leave barebone the military industry to fend itself. they can't simply export the military because that would be a 'security risk' lawl
whatever that means, after outsourcing everything.
>>2861459are they doing the
omae wa mou shindeiru?
filthy pathetic propaganda.
>>2861577That's definitely a factor, yeah. I guess it wasn't a great idea to tie your defense production to the profit motive.
>Saratov oil refinery on fire tonight
Grim
>>2861793Some guy’s recreational rockets I guess? Lmao
I don’t get the enthusiasm people have for being taken for a ride by Kiev’s propaganda, they’ve demonstrated themselves to be egregiously untrustworthy so many times now and yet there’s very little appetite for doubting their claims.
>>2861868Not the only one, there was another strike in some town in Tatarstan.
Nizhnekamsk apparently.
The footage going around shows the FP-1 drone doing a lot of sharp evasive manoeuvres before diving, which probably explains the change to its wing geometry.
414 Magyar’s Birds on Xitter
>Driving to Crimea for easy money? Your truck is already on the target list
>Russian long-haul trucker, catch this non-Chinese warning (Drive the fuck away): don’t get behind the wheel of a truck heading down the land corridor to Crimea chasing a long ruble, not even when tempted by triple rates.
>Your truck is a legitimate military target on occupied territory.
>Watch about 200 July near-Crimea blow-ups in the video compilation, then drive the fuck back to Rostov without looking back – like you used to race off to get laid in your youth.
Trucks full of aid sent to break a siege are declared military targets and the footage of killing civilian drivers celebrated? Who does that remind us of?
>Stubb: 35,000 Russian soldiers killed per month won't end this war. Economic strain won't end it either.
>What ends it: the Russian population turning against it. Drones hit St. Petersburg and Moscow. Kids lose their summers in Crimea. Gas lines. Internet shutdowns.
Kids mentioned! The Ukrainification of the West continues. Can the conflict be won militarily? No. Can the conflict be won economically? Also no. But when the kids are miserable, that’s when victory is assured.
>>2861886bad news stubb - russians can't jump
>>2861469Mega-constellations can only be destroyed via space nuclear explosion, which would create massive outtages in the surface too.
>>2861886Russians are too domesticated. Even in the ukranian nazi regime there have been protests against conscription.
>>2861889>domesticatedservile is the word you're looking for
Iuliia Mendel
> A nuclear strike on Ukraine is “good,” it’s a “positive scenario” because that’s supposedly how the war can be ended. This is what various talking heads caffiliated with Zelenskyy's Office are now trying to convince Ukrainians of — while Zelenskyy himself is threatening Lukashenko, who actually possesses nuclear weapons.
Tbh I’ve not actually seen this mentioned anywhere else but she mentions that it’s something Ukrainians are discussing so perhaps the narrative hasn’t been authorised for the prime time with NAFO yet.
At the same time, NATO is currently insisting they both consider Russia a long-term threat but that also there’s no risk of a nuclear attack on any NATO states despite the more open support for Ukraine’s drone operations.
The waters have become very muddy gentlemen.
>>2861889>>2861891Well it’s the Ukrainian government that is the sole factor keeping this war going and it’s the Ukrainian population that’s paying the highest price, so not really a surprise that’s where the most visible protests are.
That being said, I wouldn’t use words like Domesticated and Servile when the West is rapidly disassembling social liberalism that Westerners coveted as their raison d’etre as well reason for supporting Ukraine and cutting themselves off from Russian energy in the first place.
Everyone is groaning about the Ukrainisation of Britain and the EU, but what is anyone going to do about it? Where are the protests against that?
>>2861903>Ukrainian government that is the sole factor keeping this war goingrussians can end this war anytime by packing up and returning to russia
>>2861903>Domesticated and Servile when the West what's the west got to do with inherent nature of the russian race?
Like I agree it’s a pretty cute idea that the Russian population now has no petrol in a petrol state, but once this conflict is over how long does it take to restore full service? Couple of years? A decade?
In the West the EU and London are banning away all the values it previously prided itself on despite the constant suggestion they’re effortlessly defeating Russia on a budget of a shoestring, why? Why does that have to be the price paid for another state’s victory in a conflict we’re supposedly not even really involved in?
>>2861904That wouldn’t solve the problem of the Ukrainian government attacking “occupiers” who have lived in their homes for longer than the modern state of Ukraine has existed.
>>2861907i'm pretty sure that without russian support the problem of bantustans would solve itself
>>2861908Oh really are you? Why weren’t you at the UN to tell this to the western states that were funnelling weapons into Ukraine before and after 2014? I’m sure they’d have listened to what you’re pretty sure of.
>>2861904They are. The problem you have is that they're not leaving the land for Jeffrey Epstein.
>>2861904Or by uncucking and getting good but it would displease the blood god I guess
Let’s make no mistake about the origin of the “occupiers” narrative, NATO declared in 2008 an interest in Ukraine joining but a condition of NATO membership is not having any territorial disputes.
So for NATO expansion to continue, even into countries where a significant portion of the population aren’t in favour of walking through NATO’s open door, that “territorial” dispute must be resolved and given the coup and given the weapon supplies and given the military training with NATO armies, I think it’s pretty obvious how it was intended to be resolved.
>>2861909> funnelling weapons into Ukraine before and after 2014ukraine is a legitimate country it can buy arms just like any other. what funnerling are you talkign about? did someone smuggle a cate of aks and left it on main suqre in kiev or something?
>>2861915>NATO declared in 2008 an interest in Ukraine joiningone google search away
>a condition of NATO membership is not having any territorial disputes.there is no such requirement
nice talking points straight out of rt's schizophrenia
>>2861910>They are.they are not: russians belong in volga basin exclusively - twer to perm to samara - that's where russia was created as a civilization and russians as a race and it would be best if russians - just like every and any other people in the world - stuck to where they belong so there wouldn't have to be wars over lines in sand
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) >>2861889>Even in the ukranian nazi regime there have been protests against conscription.I bet those protestors got identified and then targeted for conscription as a joke lol
>>2861922Ignoring the existence of Kievan Rus. How convenient.
>>2861925>Kievan Rusliterally no relation, when ruthernians conquered volga basin there were no muscovites yet - only assorted fingols khazars in suzdal and other settlements around volga
it was only when mongols took reigns those mostly tribal volga inhabitants formed the core of what later became the russian people
>>2861924Maybe not terrorize refugees fleeing from war.
>>2861927Yeah leave that to the local government when they’re sending them back to war
>>2861926>literally no relation>when ruthernians conquered volga basin That is a clear relation. The people from Ukraine went into the Volga and mixed with the people there.
>it was only when mongols took reigns those mostly tribal volga inhabitants formed the core of what later became the russian peopleAnd then those people later went on to conquer Ukraine and mixed with them for centuries.
This idea of some primordial separation of Russia and Ukraine is nonsense. You even said why they are related yourself but simply insist it does not count.
Why do Russians and Ukrainian look identical and speak practically the same language if Russians alone are just mongols?
>>2861931>That is a clear relation. The people from Ukraine went into the Volga and mixed with the people there. people from castile went to south america and mixed with people there. does that make paraguayans spanish?
>>2861922>>2861918I genuinely don't understand how you people don't kill yourselves after the Epstein files were released. We know as a fact from publicized internal correspondence that Ukraine currently exists as a human farm that provides meat to fat, old, disgusting pedophiles in three capacities - as meat for consumption, meat for child sexual abuse, meat for imperialist war. You have no business defending Ukraine if you don't wake up saying "I love Jeffrey Epstein, I love Palantir, I love the CIA, I love fascist football hooligans, I will give my life and more for them".
>>2861933Fantastic revelations there for your take on Russians just being mongols
>>2861935they're not mongols, they were created by tataro-mongols
>>2861936>createdLmao okay, you’re just going to introduce as many categories of population as required to justify Ukraine’s ethno-nationalism, those pure, those mixed, those created, etc
>>2861937i posted a timeline of when muscovites emerged as a people
>>2861926 you claimed russians ARE mongols
>>2861931 >>2861935 to try to reduce my argument to absurd
nice try, but try it with someone dumber next time
>>2861938>but try it with someone dumber next timeI’d be trying for a long time I think.
>>2861933>does that make paraguayans spanish?Partially. And in a hypothetical situation where Paraguayans went on to conquer Spain then after a few centuries the Spaniards would then be partially Paraguayan.
In real life the Ruth/Volgas/Mongols ended up going back and conquering Ukraine so they all mixed together. It's hilarious you think you are somehow different when no one is able to tell them apart.
>>2861935Whats wrong about being a mongol?
>>2862027this question kills the european
>>2862032Based mongolian trotskite
>>2861924You could try not having autism.
>>2861950Of all the things in the world that never happened, this never happened the most.
No regular woman would ever do something retarded like randomly start a 2 hour political debate with their date. If they see a political signifier they don't like they'll just make up an excuse and leave early. Only moids fantasize about 2 hour political debates with their dates. Women don't do that retarded shit.
>"We will help Ukraine strike deep into Russia so that it ends the war," - US Secretary of State Marco Rubio
>will
>>2862109Yeah that’s in terms of matériel that the US stopped giving to Ukraine because it was needed for Israel/Iran. AFAIK Rubio hasn’t said this support involves some kind of new missile givas, so presumably it’s targeting/navigation/access to friendly airspace which has long been suspected to have increased under Trump.
>>2862104>>2862104>randomly start a 2 hour political debate with their date.Bold of you to assume he didn't rant at her for a couple of hours whilst she awkwardly smiled and nodded, doing the bare minimum to get out of this strange and intimidating mans home whilst leaving his ego intact.
>Only moids fantasize about 2 hour political debates with their dates. Women don't do that retarded shit.Weird projection. All of my partners over the years have been down and willing for spirited political debate, and almost all of them have been politically active.
Probably a man btw, no regular woman is going around saying 'moids'.
>>2862116>he didn't rant at her for a couple of hours whilst she awkwardly smiled and noddedThis was also my read on it tbh
>Trump: Would you go to Moscow?
>Zelensky: It's difficult. There are a lot of Ukrainian drones there.
Zing!
Honestly I can’t pick what’s funnier about that joke, that citizens in Kiev need to take shelter in the metro to cope with the retaliation against Ukrainian drones, or the idea that Zelensky would fear his own drones if he ever went to Moscow to negotiate with Putin which is something he’s made illegal for himself to do.
Nah, it’s definitely the latter.
>>2861872>I don’t get the enthusiasm people have for being taken for a ride by Kiev’s propagandaeven people who is not Russian nationalists grow tired of such a bullshit.
the most effective anti-ukrainian propaganda it's ukrainian propaganda.
of course, as long as people have a bare minimum of critical thinking.
>>2861886and talking about who's the israel in this conflict, huh.
>Trump confirms at the NATO summit that they are planning on giving Ukraine a direct license to manufacture Patriot interceptors. This unprecedented move would transfer the intellectual property of the interceptor to Ukraine (and let’s be real it’s going to make its way to other countries).
LMAO
>>2862220Based Trump declaring waging war on the American MIC.
inbreds infight:
literal banderite v. polelol nafo.
one denies the attrocities of nazis
the other accuses the banderatard of being a
RuSSian shillmain discussion:
>https://nitter.net/GicAriana/status/2073638482371612921reply:
>https://nitter.net/ChimpanzeeLeo/status/2073678631608422652who will win?
make your bets.
>>2862238nationalists vs nationalists infighting is always fun to watch, truly spooky
>>2862104I'm always hearing about the debate bros. Where are the debate sisters?
>>2862104>No regular woman would ever do something retarded like randomly start a 2 hour political debate with their date. That is if it was a "debate" and not an autistic rambling lecture about the evils of RuZZia. Personal politics, while not the most important thing, is still a thing that should be gotten out of the way at some point. If it turns out into a hours long debate shit the relationship is not going to fly.
>>2862220>they are planning on giving Ukraine a direct license to manufacture Patriot interceptorsWhat the fuck is their angle with this "make weapons in Ukraine" shtick? Ukraine's primary advantage has always been that their supply lines are in Europe and Russia is not going to strike them there. In Ukraine anything large scale is going to be blown up even before in finishes construction, no matter how well they hide it. Do they just want commitments, so they can lock politicians in and then embezzle the money?
>>2862321>they can lock politicians in and then embezzle the moneyyes.
and moreoever, the licenses will end up everywhere else, given ukraine's track record on corruption. lmao.
>>2862266Imperialist colonizers invading more land is even more spooky.
>>2862321Yeah, it's not happening. Trump throws out these ideas to see what sticks and this one won't.
>>2862327>no! the polish working class mustn't take land from my kulak landlord friends, it's morally wrong!spooks on all sides here
>>2862327oh, if only you knew how poland sees ukraine
>According to STRANA, a Polish train with a design commemorating the anniversary of the Second Polish Republic,features a portrait of Józef Piłsudski and a map showing the Ukrainian cities of Lviv, Lutsk, Rivne, and Brody as part of Poland.
>picture.I am sure this is not an "IF"
poland will invade ukraine, but a matter of
when.
>>2862368Maybe Ukraine and Poland should both be given nukes so they can finish each other off and save the world some trouble.
>>2862374The SMO could have armored trains for defense against drones, they are easy to move around populated areas and can fit hundreds of anti-drone guns and machineguns.
>>2862382So what happens if they just target the tracks
>>2862238Those that don't read Ukrainian national identity propaganda growing up don't know that between Turkey, Poland and Russia, Ukrainians hate Russia the least.
>>2862327>Imperialist colonizers invading more land is even more spookyrepeating an argument ad nauseum wont make it true also spot the contradiction in that sentence
Monaco Bombing Suspect Murdered by Military Intelligence Officer, Ukrainian Authorities Say
<In brief: Ukrainian authorities said they have recovered the body of a female suspect believed to have been involved in the June 29 Monaco bombing against Ukrainian tycoon Vadym Iermolaiev. Investigation suggests a current employee of Ukraine’s Military Intelligence (HUR) was involved in her murder, though the man maintained that he acted without the agency’s involvement.https://www.kyivpost.com/post/79775
>Ukraine’s Prosecutor General’s Office said Tuesday that the body of the female suspect involved in the June 29 bombing against a Ukrainian tycoon in Monaco has been found.
>The agency said the woman was murdered, with a former law enforcement officer – of an unspecified agency – and a current employee of Ukraine’s Military Intelligence (HUR) suspected of her murder in Ukraine.
>In its press release, the office said the suspect, identified as a Ukrainian citizen named Anastasiia Berezovska, returned to the country on July 1, with pre-trial investigations beginning the same day.
>The agency said authorities identified her contacts with her family and the two men upon her return, with the two men having “repeatedly made transfers to Berezovska A.’s crypto and bank accounts.”
>During a search operation, the HUR employee reportedly acknowledged killing Berezovska but denied official HUR involvement.
>“At the same time, the latter reported that he did not inform his superiors about his contacts with Berezovska A., the transfer of funds to her, and any other actions he took, and acted at his own discretion,” the press release says.
>The office said authorities uncovered a “basement room resembling a torture chamber” at the home of the former law enforcement officer and later recovered Berezovska’s body, with “gunshot wounds to the head, and pistol cartridges.”
>Berezovska’s body was recovered at 11 p.m. on Monday, according to law enforcement sources cited by local outlet Ukrainska Pravda. It is unclear when the murder took place.
>The office said the investigation is aided by the National Police and the counterintelligence unit of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), with HUR chief Oleh Ivashchenko providing “personal assistance” to the investigation.
>HUR has not commented publicly on the incident.
>The office added that it has provided all available evidence to European authorities.Case closed, innit
>>2862238Wow, Nationalists are the worst enemies of their own people. Who would have thunk?
>>2861950the nafo doge cumjar is real
>>2862643it would a nafo homunculus jar. wouldn't it be?
>>2862428that depends on the area. weren't you a Lvov kid? central regions of ukraine hate more Belarus and Russia, while western borders are more worried about hating Poland.
>>2862692>central regions of ukraine hate more Belarus and RussiaI meant the ethos. Cossacks this. Cossacks that. Tatar slave raids. And oppression by Polish landlords.
Catholic Polish landlords, let's not forget.
And also that Ukrainian girl that went from being a captured slave to the wife of an Ottoman sultan.
You didn’t hear it from me but a certain news source that was previously legal for me to post ITT but now in the EU would be illegal to post, may, or may not, have reported on riots in Lvov against the recruitoors.
If said source does in fact report that, then I declare that’s pure coincidence and bears no relation to this post.
>>2862709oh, it was reported alright by other sources that shouldn't be illegal, lmao.
strana is even talking about it:
>According to local public groups, one of the military commissars ran out of the car and hit a young man from behind.
>After this, a crowd of people gathered and blocked the TCC car, later overturning it.
>In the second video, already in the midst of the protests, shots can be heard in the air, likely from the police.
>In the third video, rioting civilians rip off the military commissar's clothes and hit him.
>In the fourth video, a wheelchair user finishes off an overturned TCC car. >>2862707ah! the folklore. yeah nazism is the only thing accelerating hatred towards Russia since the orange revolution, and with the operation aerodynamic behind the curtain.
>>2862715>>2862716Nah it must be Russian propaganda because not-grillpill said everyone in Lvov is entirely disinterested in everything related to the conflict, that he’s never seen anything that would make the TCC hated.
>>2862723maybe he could join this man's interests…
and very well replied:
>Do you want to suck his dick? >>2862723>>2862726>>2862728Of course, you can see more boot sucking cucks, these are just a mere colorful sample of the facebook ukranian society talking.
but I am sure that the small riot shows there's a melting pot, heating, getting ready, ripening.
for a very small country (population speaking) these are clear signs of distress.
>>2862730Tbh I reckon most of these “hurrah for mobilisation!” posts come from Ukrainians who live abroad, because they’ve got the narrative that they’ve been force to flee the war and really super duper want to return but can’t until the war is won and it’s therefore “draft dodgers” who are imposing this exile on them, so step to it plebs who couldn’t afford to flee.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen on social media the most pro-war Ukrainians are invariably girls who live in Monaco or some such place trying to become models.
You know the kind of post; yacht, bikini, cocktail, solemn expression, a description of how paradise has been tarnished by their forced exile by the ruzzians and a link to… some kind of donation service to support Ukraine.
And not to keep picking on not-grillpill, but this is the reason why conflicts ultimately end.
It’s not about auras and capture points, it’s getting to the point where people are flipping over TCC cars because they know that fighting is a death sentence and if the Ukrainian military is pushed out of Donbass after years of saying it won’t be lost, then now everyone who was mobilised previously all died in vain.
One day Ukraine is full of hardcore nazis who last time I chcked only surrendered when their capital was taken, their country was a bunch of ruins and their leadership killed themselves, the other it's barely supported by a bunch of Monaco girls and about to fall because some people fight conscription.
>>2862753Not really a contradiction there, since Hardcore Nazis are very keen on total Russian-speaker death but are kicking off in Lvov specifically because mobilisation there means True Galicians™ are being sacrificed on the alter of NATO membership.
Basically the point is that mobilisation is only popular with people who aren’t eligible or able to be mobilised but have a political, financial or even a financial investment in the conflict’s continuance, which isn’t a particularly complex concept.
>>2862756Which I’ll add is a group of people that is shrinking in number.
>True Galicians now getting busified when the mobilisation plan was supposed to target Russian speakers and former Soviet citizens>Western countries cutting funding and preferential visas for Ukrainian refugees to send them back>Ukraine’s various Western-operated anti-corruption agencies are failing to convict but are thwarting opportunities for profiteering from the conflicteventually you get to a point where it is just Zelensky in his bunker, off his tits on coke, shouting at his handful of remaining loyalists about betrayal because Steiner can’t mount a counter-offensive to retake Kramatorsk
>>2862756Political, personal or even financial investment*
>>2862753The enemy needs to be simultaneously strong enough that The Champagne can justify Russia's awful performance, but at the same time so weak and on the verge of collapse, that anyone suggesting escalation in the same vein of a Soviet-style block-by-block leveling-to-the-ground is dismissed as unnecessary and needlessly destructive.
>>2862348Russia earned all that land same way Israel earned Palestine, go into AFU if you disagree.
Rusha is fighting the whole west's war economy and arms manufacturing capabilty though
>>2862760>awful performanceErm sauce? Because Russia is holding its own against an adversary that has the backing of almost the entire US sphere of influence and given by them complete legal amnesty to fight however it wishes, without resorting to nukes or just levelling entire cities outside the line of contact.
It’s a supportable form of fighting the conflict because the Kievian government are now exceedingly unpopular with both Ukrainians and Russians for basically the same reasons. Although I’ve no doubt sentiment towards the Russian government is none too pleasant either, it’s not the Russian government bunging Ukrainians into buses with bruises and broken bones, nor can Ukraine’s open targeting of civilian life in Russia be blamed on the Russian government’s gloved fists.
After rusha wins it will help its ukrain vassals to repress the unrest of ukr citizens
For every anon ITT who makes an insatiable desire for shock and awe their main personality trait, what is it about Kiev’s conduct this far that makes you think they give two fucks about civilian sentiments? The busification? The complete abolition democracy? The prison sentences for people who report what they see after attacks? The murder and exile of all political opposition?
Civilians in Ukraine are a prop for Kiev’s narratives, nothing more, nothing less.
If there’s collateral damage it’s genocide and Kiev demands more givas. if there’s little civilian casualties, then Russia is clearly incompetent and just keeps missing their real targets which are civilians, that’s weakness to exploit, Kiev demands more givas.
>>2862764Forced conscription always has been a violent, sleazy affair, Ukraine is not special in that regard, thinking it will fall because some people are resisting, and as an anti militarist all my heart goes to them, is just wishful thinking. Polls indicate that ukrainians might not like their government but they really love their military and the chauvinist sentiment is high while the fascists are progressively gaining more and more political power so it is very far from over unless Russia realizes that the attrition strategy against an enemy that doesn't value life all that much is retarded.
>>2862768>Ukraine is not special in that regardIt is in this conflict where it’s the only military doing it.
>The military and government are different There’s a reason why Zaluzhny is exiled in London currently, when people suggest Ukrainians “love their military” they’re not thinking of Syrsky, are they?
And fuck me if that isn’t shifting the goalposts
>Russia is weak and incompetent and just letting Kiev win because it’s too cucked to offend anyone, may i remind you that civilians in Lvov go nightclubbing they’re so unfazed?
<Oh well protests and riots in Lvov is normal for forced conscription which is also normal and no one ought to care about it, so erm proof this means Ukraine is heading for societal collapse?
>>2862773You can continue to operate on wishful thinking and idealism if that makes you feel better I guess, telling yourself stories and using leftypol as your fantasy diary might be therapeutical, two more weeks
>>2862774If it’s wishful thinking that the masses can become radicalised by and united against a shrinking ruling class that’s cracking the whip thrice as hard just to maintain control, then what are we doing here on leftypol?
>>2862781The reason Ukraine is in this predicament in the first place is that there was no uniting force against the NGO goons. It doesn't seem likely that the country already crushed and subdued by Epstein dogs has anyone capable of actually making anything happen left.
>>2862802They had little reason to, they weren’t particularly keen on their government to begin with and as with all populations outside of US influence, propagandised to assume that the west can run their country better than they themselves can.
It’s the lesson they’ve learned there that’s the potentially radicalising element for Ukrainian society, not necessarily that “civilising” NGOs were showing up in the first place.
And in terms of doing anything now that would topple the government, Total War demands a lot from people but above all else compliance. Civil disobedience, if it continues to intensify, means that compliance lost and Total War becomes impossible.
A potential scenario, though not necessarily my prediction, is that people universally are fed up with Kiev’s proclamations that the war can continue indefinitely so long as certain beaks are kept wet and stop performing the tasks war requires. I.e manufacturing, logistics, taking military orders, etc.
Perhaps overthrowing the government directly with a popular movement to replace it is unlikely, but if people are organised enough for a general strike, chances are Zelensky and Co aren’t sticking around to find out what will happen next.
>>2862815So now Russia's plan is "maybe there will be an incredibly unlikely general strike in Ukraine?", this is pure wishful thinking. You can't manifest material things with the power of the spirit. This stupid war has just been degenerate gambling from the get go when they tried for kiev without the manpower, I remember a top glowie being publicly humiliated by cucktin for giving non crazily optimistic estimation, it's insane that after 5 years of war nothing changed
>>2862828Tbh this is just projection. The wishful thinking and attempt to manufacture reality is in, and has always been in, just ignoring the situation in Ukraine in favour of keeping all eyes on the situation in Russia in anticipation of the
exact same thing happening with the Russian population overthrowing Putin and assuming it can’t happen in Ukraine because….?
>>2862815That could only happen if they start conscripting en masse Western Ukraine, and they have millions to kill before in the rest of the Country, so not gonna happen
>>2862843You can’t memory hole the protest in Lvov while that’s still the topic of the discussion.
And this is what it comes down to, becoming a babbling retard trying to memory hole the topic of a discussion mid-discussion just to avoid confronting the fact that protest was pretty significant in both severity and the fact it occurred in the heartland of Banderism.
If that was happening in Russia people would be calling in their bets on Polymarket already
>>2862848>people would be calling in their bets on Polymarket alreadyand they would also be retarded
the only protests that ever toppled a government are foreign involved,and in our modern era,the glowies always end up bragging somewhere in glowcord or social media (see georgia,ukraine,nepal)
After learning about the Omsk memes, I just learned that Zelensky did the voice of the red bird in the Ukrainian dubbed version of the Angry Birds movie. Feel like God is trying to fuck with me.
>>2862834I suppose it could happen. It hasn't happened yet though.
Also have to point out that, as far as I can tell, the Ukrainian home front has been much more in a state of war inside the country than Russia has. Ukraine has been getting bombed for four years and they've probably learned a few things in that time. (Like how to disperse fuel systems and repair things quickly, this is an underappreciated aspect of what North Vietnam did during the U.S. bombing in the 1960s.) Some angry patriot Z bloggers on the Russian side can hyperventilate about stuff not going according to plan (Ukraine also likes to clip the craziest Russian patriots who are shouting pizda into their phone in their truck … a universal archetype really … while ranting about the war because that kind of dooming lifts the Ukrainian spirits) but one thing they often complain about is that the Kremlin hasn't taken the war seriously at home, hasn't really treated it as a "war." It's a "special military operation" after all.
But fundamentally, war is unpredictable. Trying to break the will of the other side by raising costs makes sense but whether it works or not is a big dunno. Russia and Ukraine are both trying to do it to each other. There's always some measure of uncertainty at any rate, even if you can get a sense of larger "objective" trends pointing in one direction or another. Really surprising things can happen (look at how Assad won, most people including me thought that, the only people who didn't think that were HTS which launched an offensive and it was over in less than two weeks). It's not an exact science but a contest of wills with a certain degree of randomness and the people involved are operating in the dark a lot.
Also the nature of friction contributes to the evolution of these systems. It can take getting your infrastructure bombed to adapt to that kind of thing. It takes a lot of practice with a piano to get good at it, eventually you're going to look like a fool if you're used to fooling people on a pretend piano to a pre-recorded backing track.
The year is 2022. Russia is at war with Ukraine. The Champagne thinks victory is imminent, Ukraine will not last for much longer, and everything will wrap up soon.
The year is 2023. Russia is at war with Ukraine. The Champagne thinks victory is imminent, Ukraine will not last for much longer, and everything will wrap up soon.
The year is 2024. Russia is at war with Ukraine. The Champagne thinks victory is imminent, Ukraine will not last for much longer, and everything will wrap up soon.
The year is 2025. Russia is at war with Ukraine. The Champagne thinks victory is imminent, Ukraine will not last for much longer, and everything will wrap up soon.
The year is 2026. Russia is at war with Ukraine. The Champagne thinks victory is imminent, Ukraine will not last for much longer, and everything will wrap up soon…
>>2862858>I just learned that Zelensky did the voice of the red bird in the Ukrainian dubbed version of the Angry Birds movieOkay that is pretty genius.
The problem with people’s awareness of how this conflict affects the morale and tolerance of the population of Ukraine and Russia comes down to how they as an observer
feel about their respective circumstances. I.e projecting how they
think they’d feel in those circumstances.
So one must dismiss images of Kiev’s citizens taking shelter in the metro, videos of busification and reports of frequent power outages as a tragedy to be sure but not a concern because of a cringe NAFO rallying cry it will all be avenged! Or suggestions that the population are just used to it after so many years are, again, attempts at trying to manufacture the reality where Ukrainians have an infinite capacity for living with a conflict where so much more can be targeted by Russia.
Meanwhile you have to find the irony of “le gas station with no gas”
so funny that obviously the humiliation must be unbearable for the Russian population and will essentially commit suicide over the grief of finding themselves in such an ironic situation.
It’s just completely detached from reality, but my word do people try to make it so.
>>2862862Again projection, let’s go through the real list
>Sanctions means its ogre for Russia>Regrouping in Donbass means its ogre for Russia>Javelins means its ogre for Russia>HIMARS means its ogre for Russia>NATO MBTs means its ogre for Russia>NATO jets means its ogre for Russia>ATACMS means its ogre for Russia>Crimean Beach party means its ogre for Russia>Kursk means its ogre for Russia>FPV drones means its ogre for Russia>Suicide drones making small, smokey fires means its ogre for Russia>Assassinations in Moscow means its ogre for Russia>This graph showing Putin’s approval at 55% means its ogre for RussiaLike at this point you’re going to have to start inventing new letters after Z for all these plans to continue.
>>2862873>Meanwhile you have to find the irony of “le gas station with no gas” so funny that obviously the humiliation must be unbearable for the Russian population and will essentially commit suicide over the grief of finding themselves in such an ironic situation.lol yeah. I have to say I'm skeptical of that claim yes. Well I've never been to Russia but if they're the kind of people who easily panic, they definitely don't show it. I heard a joke when Iran was bombing Dubai. Like the foreigners will be like ohmahgerd we're all gonna die, but there are a lot of Russians who live there and they're going to be like meh.
Oliver Stone interviewed Putin and they were talking about the dangers of a new arms race, and Putin didn't like the U.S. stationing missiles around Russia, and Stone asked him, couldn't that cause Russians to panic? That's a very American kind of projecting. And Putin just looked at him with a sigh said
it's impossible for Russians to panic. I have to flip this around on you again though, since hasn't been one of the arguments on the pro-Russian side in this war that Ukrainians are basically the same people? They were part of the Soviet Union too (and inherited an impressive chunk of the defense-industrial base). Also asymmetry of will is a real thing in wars, what people interpret as existential can vary. Also it's funny people post Mearsheimer because in 2017 he was saying Putin wouldn't do it because he's not an imperialist and it would also be idiotic, it'd be like trying to swallow a porcupine.
Obviously you can use abstract reasoning to pinpoint security problems (like people do with "contradictions") that contributed to the war starting, like how Russia identified Ukraine as a potential security problem and that Russia wanted to fight for it, but you can also have a really bad idea what exactly will happen. Like when exactly is Putin going to start nuking stuff, idk??? Realists don't really know. They tend to treat states as single "rational" organisms. But it's like no Mearsheimer you were just fucking wrong about the Russian government because Putin is 🐵🍌
>>2862883>since hasn't been one of the arguments on the pro-Russian side in this war that Ukrainians are basically the same people?You're right, and I have seen pro-Russian voices kinda showing pseudo-respect for Ukrainians on that basis (that Russians would be as hardy since they're one and the same), but ackshually that still works within my point that Western observers are trying to insist that humiliating irony is a more powerful weapon than anything Russia has.
One of the downsides with presenting every successful attack Ukraine conducts as a humiliating furore for Russia, means intrinsically setting a really low bar in expectations for Ukraine so that anything Ukraine does achieve exceeds expectation, this is a downside because while everyone Xitter is having a good time lmao'ing at Putin and Russia no longer being the "2nd army of the world", I'd assume Ukrainians can read into that as
>Woah guys, that irrelevant, backward, impoverished shithole actually managed to build a missile and successfully launch it at Russia! Lmao I can't believe it, pack it up guys, we outta here it's over no way Putin can recover from being so humiliatedditto with the Ukrainian Subreddit dude holding a molotov cocktail, I'm reasonably sure that's the invention of a Western supporter since, usually, countries like to compare their ferocity to stuff like the Bald Eagle or Native American tribes for the US or lions in Britain. Ukraine being presented as a guy with a molotov
could evoke some righteous, street-fighting anarchist fighting the man with passion despite lacking sophisticated weaponry,
or it could evoke some rioting yobbo who isn't out to achieve much except cause some criminal damage, but neither take exactly flatters Ukraine's power, legitimacy or capabilities.
Like from what I've seen of popular Ukrainian nationalism between 2014 and probably 2023, I don't think they'd agree that Ukraine is an irrelevant shithole where any hits they do land against Russia would be a jaw-dropping surprise, seems rather like they'd expect to match Russia in open conflict and that's an expectation that has in fact been shattered.
Even the suicide drones that I know we don't see eye to eye on in their capabilities, it's pretty clear that by now they're far more technologically advanced than the first models and I am sure that stuff like avionics can be developed and improved in Ukraine, yet they're still praised by pro-Ukrainian Xitter as backyard hillbilly engineering, costing $500 a piece, manufacturable by children and the uneducated, and successful only because of Russian incompetence.
How much zrada can a man take?
How about no sane person gives a fuck or wants to be a part of this shit? That's me tbh.
>>2862933>don't want to be a part of this shit>In the thread anywayRight, yeah, SANE people.
>>2862935>>In the thread anywayI'm usually not. I predict this war will last a couple decades. You're infor a ride bucko. It'd be better if it wasn't a daily affair for you.
>>2862937How do you know it's a "daily affair" for me if you're usually not in the thread?
>>2862941Why are you agreeing with me if it's not true? This is the most boring thread on this website. It's just you and the couple other flagfags in the same never ending no where debate over and over again.
>>2862948I'm not denying it, I am ITT most days. Just seems like an odd thing to point out while also claiming you're usually not in the thread.
>>2862941>>2862948He's right you know, every time i unminimize this thread or whatever it's the same shit, the same bickering, the same weirdos with flags taking shots at each-other.
>>2862951>every time i unminimize this thread or whateverSo, don't do that then?
>>2862950I just am not, I can't even tell you what brought me here right now today. I find this thread so repetitive and nothing interesting comes from it. I will probably soon be done speaking my piece and will leave you all to your business shortly.
>>2862904>I'm reasonably sure that's the invention of a Western supporter since, usually, countries like to compare their ferocity to stuff like the Bald Eagle or Native American tribes for the US or lions in Britain. Could be, but like I was saying earlier Ukrainians also larp a lot. Like half their army units have Cossack references or are references to Kyieven princes and the Zaporizhian Sich. This stuff is just everywhere. Ukrainian music groups incorporate folk instrumentation and art (quilted artistic patterns like in clothing). It can be both promoted from the top but I think it a lot of it is a more or less organic thing that happens in war because the people are trying to differentiate themselves from their enemy because it's "us vs. them" while also grounding their own consciousness in something that feels enduring. That's nationalism.
>Ukraine being presented as a guy with a molotov could evoke some righteous, street-fighting anarchist fighting the man with passion despite lacking sophisticated weaponry, or it could evoke some rioting yobbo who isn't out to achieve much except cause some criminal damage, but neither take exactly flatters Ukraine's power, legitimacy or capabilities. It's about coping with stress. The reality is that rushing a Russian mechanized infantry company with Molotov cocktails will get you killed. But the reason why civilians were manufacturing those things at scale when the war started is that it gave them something to do. It occupies the hands and mind.
>>2862956Who are you complaining to? Are you waiting for me to offer you to speak to the manager about the thread not being interesting enough for you?
>>2862962You know nobody on this website cares about you fucking weirdo bongtooth faggot right? Do you even post in a single other thread on this website but this one? What the fuck is your deal?
>>2862965How’s CHAZ doing?
>>2862969Lol, what is that supposed to mean? Why did you think this was series of characters would affect me?
>>2862965Why would anyone expect anonymous people online to care about them on a personal level? It's an imageboard, a type of internet forum, a place for discussing opinions and that's my deal here.
>>2862957Tbh I think the symbolism behind the molotov really is just part of the memeification of Ukraine, the drone strikes are against oil infrastructure, that creates fires and it's now what Ukraine is most famed for, they're twisted firestarters.
>>2862970It’s almost always anarKKKiddies and other western leftoids who get butthurt over Hoholistan, so I thought bringing up the greatest success of the western left in the 21st century might add some perspective
>>2862971>Why would anyone expect anonymous people online to care about them on a personal level? It's an imageboard, a type of internet forum, a place for discussing opinions and that's my deal here. Ok, then, I would like to claifify for you:
>>2862962>Who are you complaining to? Are you waiting for me to offer you to speak to the manager about the thread not being interesting enough for you?I think you are lame and retarded and I think the things you post here with your flag are lame and retarded.
>>2862974I think you're not actually sane. I think it's really bizarre to claim that you're usually not in this thread, yet you know posting here is a daily habit of mine. Okay that could be a guess based on myself being here each time you do visit, but you also know my nationality which is not something I mention every day.
Why did you lie? Who are you lying to?
>>2862971>that creates fires and it's now what Ukraine is most famed for, they're twisted firestarters.The Molotov motif is used in the last part of that video BTW
But a lot of what war is about is trying to reduce stress while increasing stress on the other side. Too much anxiety and people can't function. In other words, war is about injecting chaos into stable systems. There's a scene from The Battle of Algiers that I've referenced more that illustrates this principle well, which is a set of twin cafe bombings by the FLN. You can look at it as just wanton murder of civilians but they had a deliberate strategy in mind to create tension and anxiety. Raise the stress level in the targeted population because the real target was the enemy's mind. Starting a lot of fires to create unpredictability and to raise the anxiety level can be the point because it makes it harder for the enemy to react, make decisions (more likely to make wrong decisions), stuff like that.
Various institutions in our modern culture also try to condition society to be overly terrified of things. It's like how in the U.S. the Boogaloo Boys would show up at a political demonstration carrying guns. And this can light the media on fire because it's like, oh my God, these right-wing psychos are armed. Be afraid!
BUT THERE'S ONLY THREE OF THOSE GUYS. It's not, like, 12,000 of those guys who are about to drop tens of thousands of artillery rounds PER DAY on a city. That is something you actually need to run like hell to get away from. Someone fires a gun into the air, it's like BANG and everyone runs like cats hearing really loud thunder crash. That's how easy it is. But people who get acclimated to high-risk war zones develop survival skills, which is often situational awareness.
>>2862978>I think you're not actually sane. I think it's really bizarre to claim that you're usually not in this thread, yet you know posting here is a daily habit of mine.I can post here once in a blue moon and still know you post here 24 hours a day weird bong. Why don't you ever post in the bong thread?
>>2862997>In other words, war is about injecting chaos into stable systems.I understand that desire, but the problem I have is in people believing they're being successful in that. When what they're doing is just ignoring the chaos in Ukraine because "vengeance will certainly be had!" or "chin up shithole, you're hitting
Russia!" while posting comedy headlines to each other to convince
themselves that Russia is in chaos rather than necessarily to convince Russians.
I guess I didn't necessarily make a general strike my prediction for Ukraine's citizens, because of course I can't claim to know one way or the other the sentiment they have. But I'm certain that Kiev and NAFO don't care either way and I'd like to believe that's a fatal mistake on their part.
Like Zelensky plays up to his crowd on Xitter by always posting in English first and using their memes, such as referring to drones as "long-range sanctions", Budanov also just said that Ukraine can fight forever so long as they keep receiving Western funding and these big multi-billion payouts for Ukraine are politically risky for already unpopular Western leaders with shakey economies of their own, especially if it feels like the war is already lost.
Basically it has become clear that whatever the Ukrainian population thinks, they're simply not the audience for whom consent must be manufactured, it's the people ITT who are losing their shit at me every day for disputing Ukrainian propaganda. I just think demanding people to, on the one hand tolerate a warehouse full of AA missiles "not associated with the AFU" next to their homes going bang as good Ukrainian patriots should, but on the other hand being treated as entirely superfluous and ignored by their biggest "supporters" in both government and amongst.. enthusiastic.. Western taxpayers, isn't a winning strategy.
Also turning Ukraine into some uwu whoopsie did I start that fwire? :3 meme covers up that there's nothing remotely funny or humiliating about sieging Crimean civilians and boasting about murdering everyone who tries to break that siege by transporting aid, with NATO's full support because it'd be nice if the Black Sea was a NATO sea. But that's a discussion for another day.
>>2863011You forgot to greentext
>but you also know my nationality which is not something I mention every day. >>2863032>I understand that desire, but the problem I have is in people believing they're being successful in that. Well they are increasing the level of stress. They are doing that. And that's normal. They haven't successfully translated it into ending the war. That's not going to be so easy. My point is to understand that it is happening, and what they're doing is part of a strategy so you can think about it realistically and in its context and then do some #lifehacks to compensate, otherwise people will behave like it's just happening randomly and that's bad. The issue here is if the Russian government doesn't communicate this well. If they're just going, well, it's just random drone debris falling down, people are going to want answers that Ja Rule can't provide.
It comes down to how you cope. All these military songs? It's not just entertainment. If we were in these tanks headed into the unknown (and also not cute anime girls like in the video) the level of stress would probably be fairly insane. The tank company can be a pretty chaotic thing that is trying to hold itself together. But music is also stress relief with a familiar melody that can focus you but also calm you down, it helps gets you in the right mindset that we're all in this and about to do this thing.
>>2863042>it's just random drone debris falling downAh but the Russian government doesn't claim this, they do acknowledge that these are successful strikes by Ukraine, albeit neither confirming nor denying theories for how Ukraine has such reach and ability to avoid Russian defences.
Even if we ignore everything else in my post about being far too reliant on Ukraine's civilians' unending compliance with permawar, there's still a problem with the tactic in that attacks on oil refineries introduce enough stress to keep the Russian population invested in the conflict, but not necessarily enough to cry uncle.
So a big part of theorising about Ukrainian victory is assuming that Ukraine can do the Taliban thing (again, HUGE amount of respect for Ukraine here) and just outlast the Russian population's interest in the conflict by fighting a cheap, low skill war for decades. However Ukraine is not fighting a cheap, low skill war at all. The population of the US probably wouldn't tire of the War on Terror if the Taliban were pulling off mini 9/11s every month/week/day and isn't that essentially what the drone strikes
even where they're least expected are intended to be?
So Ukraine collapse status?
>>2862774>two more weeksno, 40 more days.
>>2862937>I predict this war will last a couple decades40 days, actually!
>>2863113I mean I have to reject your point on the basis that the Russian military has sufficient manpower despite still having voluntary service for Ukraine.
As you mentioned earlier
>Putin just looked at him with a sigh said it's impossible for Russians to panic. I think it's possible for the population to take the conflict seriously and be motivated to fight it and win it, without turning it into a bloodsport that people ought to enjoy spectating.
A ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine would be the “worst-case scenario” for Kiev, threatening the country’s statehood, the head of Vladimir Zelensky’s favored arms manufacturer, Fire Point, has said.
Denis Shitlerman made the remarks in an interview with Ukrainian outlet LIGAnet published on Wednesday. The company, which has recently been embroiled in multiple corruption scandals, stands to profit from the conflict. Shtilerman argued that the fighting should continue regardless, insisting that a truce with Moscow would leave Ukraine in an even worse position.
He also questioned whether Kiev’s Western backers would honor any security commitments made as part of a ceasefire.
“Look, if a truce is reached, it would – most regrettably – be the worst-case scenario for our state. We must remember how the US and other countries treat their obligations,” Shitlerman said. “I am talking about international agreements in which they guarantee the territorial integrity and independence of other states. And what do we see? Nothing,” he added.
Shitlerman also claimed that Kiev would be abandoned and “forgotten” by its backers should the hostilities cease. The arms maker somewhat echoed Moscow’s view insofar as Russian officials have repeatedly warned that Ukraine is useful for the West only as a tool against Russia rather than anything else.
>>2863466Budanov was literally trained by the CIA. He's an asset.
>>2863456it was murica though, i trust hersh on that
>>2863466dude gets fatter everytime hes on camera
>>2863487anti-zigger anons will ignore this and fake grillpill will talk about how much cock he sucked recently
>>2863456UA had a motive and they have the mindset to do it, however i too believe Hersh was correct as Biden and Trump basically both admitted it at one point. DK & SE acted in the aftermath very suspicious (to put it mildly) with regards to on-site investigations, which fits well with Hersh's version too.
>>2863384>Shitlermanoh wow
>>2863500It actually proves that ukrainian proles are more human than russians since they rise up against the bourgeois using them for war instead of being eternally cucked
>Ukranian nazi regime getting more protests than Russia
Lamo
>>2863539Nazi regimes don't get protests they imprison everyone doing this kinda like when putin the pinochet praiser cracked down on the russian anti war movement and made criticism of the war illegal with the threat of 15 years of prison
>>2863487>"Glory to the TCC."Humiliation ritual
>>286306412 more years
of not having gasoline. I heard russian ambulances have no fuel and people are dying before reaching the hospital.
>>2863588it's true they're even burning the patients for fuel just to get to the next one
>>2863541The only reason these young men were not killed or sent to prison is because they are of fighting age, and the army needs the bodies.
>>2863576>Humiliation ritualAlways is with these freaks. It's so vile.
>>2863538>>2863541>them protesting and getting years thrown into prison for it proves russia is worse i am very smartno it doesnt. but it does make pro-ukrops look hypocritical as fuck lol. fake grillpill also stating he had no problems with the tcc and not getting the hint was also quite hilarious tbh.
>>2863669and it also proves that "ukraine should lose but russia shouldnt win" is really the only decent position you can hold as a communist. its dialectical you see
Due to being a sex tourist allegedly fleeing his boring life back home, I think I’ll refer to not-grillpill as.. grillTHRILL
The fuck is that guy at anyway? Fleeing Lvov perhaps?
>>2863576I don't know who thought it was a great idea to parade arrested people on the street, and forcing them to praise the same institution that they detested, but this will only increase the general resentment.
>>2863678maybe he was busy beating those young men asses in Lvov.
People suspected of taking part in an anti-draft riot in Lviv, Ukraine were apparently intimidated into apologizing on camera, according to disturbing videos shared by military-linked activists.
The unrest in the western Ukrainian city occurred Wednesday, when dozens of people attacked a draft patrol that allegedly abused a potential recruit. The footage suggests that extrajudicial measures were subsequently used to suppress discontent.
One video that went viral on Thursday shows a visibly shaken young man on the verge of tears admitting to wrongdoing and saying he would accept any punishment. It appears to have been filmed in a secluded location and was released by a serving military officer following a “disciplinary conversation” with the alleged rioter.
Another video published by a military veteran shows a group of young men being forced to shout “glory to the TCK” and apologize. Ukrainian military offices that enforce compulsory conscription are known as Territorial Centers of Recruitment and Social Support (TCK).
The veteran wrote that Lviv will not be allowed to become the “planet of the apes.” He suggested that the harsher parts of the “disciplinary conversation” could not be posted because Facebook would censor them, and threatened “more terrifying things” for those who played a more active role in the disturbance. He added that legal proceedings could follow if officials decide to pursue them.
https://swentr.site/russia/642830-anti-conscription-rioters-crackdown/>>2863729I’ve noticed in the footage of drone strikes on those tankers in the Azov Sea trying to ship supplies to Crimea, they all targeted the bridge rather than the cargo itself.
Which should be risky because these are Le SpoOkY ShADow fLeeT tankers that have a multinational crew, Russian crew often even being the minority and thus purposely targeting the bridge is almost certainly going to result in killing non-Russian civilians, but then I remember the Ukrainians already killed a crew of Azerbaijanis like this to absolutely no consequence.
>>2863588Doubt it as even in crimea authorities have plenty of gasoline. Its civilians who suffer.
>>2863541>Nazi regimes don't get protests they imprison everyone doingthose youngster are getting something worse than prison: they are getting mobilized.
>>2863588it's been one month since the restrictions started to be eased in Russia.
and the regions like Oryol with restrictions still, are considering to lift them. the only one not considering to lifting the restriction is Crimea.
but Crimeans endured like 7 years without water because of the banderite regime. this is a lesser nuisance for them.
>>2863680that'd be really funny, tbqfh. to replace the capital of ukraine with lvov would be the last nail on the coffin of a state once known as 'ukraine'.
>>2863746>Le SpoOkY ShADow fLeeT tankersThey are in the shadows and you're laughing?
> "To the question: 'Do you feel the impact of the mid-strikes operations on the front?', most of UP's interlocutors among commanders and servicemen of various levels—from the Konstantynivka, Kramatorsk, Sloviansk, Aleksandriya, and Pokrovsk directions—helplessly shrug their shoulders.
>"No effect, absolutely none," a UP officer from the 19th Corps, operating in the Konstantynivka direction, tells UP.
>"What mid-strikes? We're paratroopers; the only thing we can feel on our own skin is Russian 'Molniyas' and FPVs," a reconnaissance soldier from one of the DShV (Air Assault Troops) brigades, which is currently conducting offensive operations in the Aleksandriya direction, replies to UP."
>"Everything happening now in Konstas (Konstantynivka) is one-to-one what was happening in Pokrovsk a year ago. There, my unit was held until the end in the Shakhterska district. They told us that clearances were ongoing, but we saw what it all looked like," recalls a UP interlocutor from the 5th Assault Brigade about Pokrovsk in 2025.
>"They are hunting pilots; we can't bring them into the city—they simply can't work there. We value infantry, we're raising their pay, but infantry without drone operators is nothing. Do you know how many pilots we've already lost in Konstas?" adds the serviceman."https://www.pravda.com.ua/articles/2026/07/08/8042933/ Would lenin be against the annexation of crimea? Why didnt russians in former ukrainian territories push for self determination themselves before annexation? Could it be that they saw ukraine as still a kind of part of current russian empire? Maybe ukraine is an opressed nation and russia is an opressor nation.
>>2864109(me)
Crimean russians were settlers while donbassian russians are opressed nation of sorts. Therefore donbassians are opressed nation that were opressed by ukr and then by russians.
I actually heard from some ukr historian boomer how russians arent a nation but an imperial ethnicity or something.
Did khrushev commit annexation by giving crimea to ukr? Why nobody reversed it? Why did Khrush spit on the established borders based on people's self determination?
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