๐ฝ UNITED STATES POLITICS ๐ฆ
>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkkaโข
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https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth/huey-longs-share-our-wealth-speechPrevious Thread
>>2857405 >>2858442
this board or siberia or something needs a containment thread for delulu deleuzian schizomaxxerz
>>2858445You will get toeless boots without straps instead.
>>2858335Dont worry, if he kills you we will blast Bruce Springsteen in your honor on all boards
>>2858448
he was terminally ill, relax. but, he was a weird fuck. Have not visited his older original stuff like Diff et Rep but he has interesting ideas in Mille Plateaux. Just wish we could police discourse a /little/ harder and nuke certain shitposters.
anyway hope my fellow yankoids survive another day and maybe even get a step ahead
>>2858448
Thatโs a fallacy of defective induction
>>2858456
just because the sun rises every day till now doesn't mean it's logically certain it will tomorrow with the absolute, mathematical precision you suggest Deleuze would kill anyone just because he killed himself.
>>2858456
What?
>>2858460
people can be disappeared but that doesn't make what you say true.
>>2858460
i've killed 5 trillion in the name of this post therefore you are guilty or something
>>2858461With all the Afrikaners Trump has been filling my neighborhood with I feel like I'm practically there already.
>>2858461way back in obama term 2, a guy was deported to iraq who didn't speak arabic and he died homeless there because he couldn't figure out how to get insulin
>>2858468interesting. i thought a lot of them went back to south africa
>>2858470
mods ban this israeli
>>2858470
>thereโs no such thing as the individual
>you are responsible
>>2858470see me after class.
>>2858475'ggs'. In other news the DC parade was cancelled for the heat. I assume burgoids are just driving themselves further into climate denial, though. The propaganda is too stronk and no one really wants to learn anything anyway in favor of having their own views confirmed at any turn.
>>2858484
You (individual person) are imprecise in both your (individual person) statement and your (individual person) thinking process.
>>2858483>I assume burgoids are just driving themselves further into climate denial, though. The propaganda is too stronk and no one really wants to learn anything anyway in favor of having their own views confirmed at any turn.It's even funnier than that, they're blaming deep state weather manipulation for the high temperatures
>>2858489he is a troll and it is known
>>2858496the meme on 4chan pol is that patriot front are feds also they are gay and do nothing but march and play dress up and make reddit mad
>>2858496>>2858496it's biocock infinite???
>>2858498Which is massive cope considering the chuds are literally in power right now, so are they implying that it's the Trump FBI that's trying to make Nazis look bad or something?
>>2858499What would be Biocock 1 and 2?
>>2858480it's really funny how he thinks people will keep falling for this
>>2858484>>2858470>You are what your society does, thereโs no such thing as the individual, if anyone commits a crime and especially if the government commits a crime you are responsiblewe can abstract your trolling to an even higher level of fart sniffing
<there is no such thing as the field excitation, only the subatomic particle<there is no such thing as subatomic particles, only the atom<there is no such thing as the atom, only the molecules<there is no such thing as the molecules, only the protein<there is no such thing as the proteins, only the cell<there is no such thing as the cell, only the body<there is no such thing as the individual, only society<there is no such thing as society, only the planet<there is no such thing as the planet, only the solar system<there is no such thing as the solar system, only the galaxy<there is no such thing as the galaxy, only the universe<there is no such thing as the universe, only the multiverse<there is no such thing as the multiverse only God, everything is God's heckin will, even the bad stuff Trump will be giving his speech at 7pm EST (roughly 3.5 hours from the time of this post, but he is often late).
The speech will be live here when it happens:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/happeningsUntil then I'll put livestreams up of the bullshit going on in DC
>>2858498>4pol be like<rightoid grass touchers are feds>leftypol be like<leftoid grass touchers are fedsarmchairs of the world, unite!
>>2858500feds will infiltrate any political extremist group, right or left wing
>>2858506To varying degrees of success and failure
>>2858502idk 2 but 1 would be like gadsden/guy fawkes mask marchers in the name of le science and the individual. They are delusional though, because the individual does not exist
>>2858504 I miss the bantz in tv happenings from like 2016-2021.
>>2858511spectacle bullshit. The real question is would you her
>>2858512I like to think of it as showing future generations our mistakes
>>2858514>The real question is would you herOn a collective level?
>>28585180/10 apply yourself
>>2858518The first is partial class awareness, the second is just sad.
>>2858276LLMs aren't as powerful or infallible as you think. Hell, people were able to trick them by hiding in cardboard boxes or can poison the data by giving it terrible commands. You fell for the AI Hype snake-oil that these techbros are selling.
Its literally just a predictive calculator. It turns letters into numbers and uses its training to calculate and predict the best answer, even when the answer is completely wrong.
>>2858518Engels said:
> The movement in America, just at this moment, is I believe best seen from across the ocean. On the spot personal bickerings and local disputes must obscure most of the grandeur of it. And the only thing that could really delay its march would be a consolidation of these differences into established acts. To some extent that will be unavoidable, but the less of it the better. And the Germans have most to guard against this. Our theory is a theory of evolution, not a dogma to be learned by heart and to be repeated mechanically. The less it is drilled into the Americans from outside and the more they test it with their own experience–with the help of the Germans–the deeper will it pass into their flesh and blood. When we returned to Germany, in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic Party as the only possible means of getting the ear of the working class; we were the most advanced wing of that party, but still a wing of it. When Marx founded the International, he drew up the General Rules in such a way that all working-class socialists of that period could join it – Proudhonists, Pierre Lerouxists and even the more advanced section of the English Trades Unions; and it was only through this latitude that the International became what it was, the means of gradually dissolving and absorbing all these minor sects, with the exception of the Anarchists, whose sudden appearance in various countries was but the effect of the violent bourgeois reaction after the Commune and could therefore safely be left by us to die out of itself, as it did. Had we from 1864, to 1873 insisted on working together only with those who openly adopted our platform where should we be to-day? I think that all our practice has shown that it is possible to work along with the general movement of the working class at every one of its stages without giving up or hiding our own distinct position and even organisation, and I am afraid that if the German Americans choose a different line they will commit a great mistake. >>2858525
I've been gone a while. Pls explain the meme and if any comrade can explain this shit >>2858529 I'd be much obliged. Gonna read up on the leftypol thread on /meta/ meanwhile
>>2858532Yeah this guy
>>2858529 is probably a ban evading troll using LLM Slop to try to make people on leftypol look bad.
Call me an idiot, then a no life troll, but youre baby blood drinking pedphophile idiots who truly have no lives. And the proof is the low quality, hundereds of pages of bans, and the subminute response time t anyone who posts evidence or even recognizes the systemic zionism and ped0phillia. I spend 2 minutes a day posting to destroy you pedophiles, while you spend hours per day serving the jewish yank colonizer devil
160 thousand bans in less than 6 years by 6 no life moderator pedophiles who go on 12 hour ban sprees rooting out anti-imperialism, proven by bay hundreds of pages logs. Nothing could be worse tham being such dickriding zionist no life devil. 160 thousand is comparable to scale of aushwit. You imperialist devils spend so UNTOLD energy protecting zionist devils so youre all epstein.
>>2858500>Which is massive cope considering the chuds are literally in power right now, so are they implying that it's the Trump FBI that's trying to make Nazis look bad or something?Yeah it's uhh the deep state which is trying to make the right look bad so that's why we have to vote for Trump to take on the deep state herp derp
>>2858498>the meme on 4chan pol is that patriot front are feds also they are gay and do nothing but march and play dress up and make reddit madThey're gay and do nothing but march and play dress up and make Reddit mad, but I think the fed thing is probably something these boomer chud guys need to believe in for their own "ideological" reasons (like in the pure ideology sense, something which you need to believe in to sustain your own politics). It's like thinking the Austin Red Guards are feds, and that was a meme on the left for awhile, when the reality is that they were probably produced by a certain strain of left-wing psychopathy.
Think a lot of reasons Patriot Front acts the way it does is trying to do 2017-circa alt-right stuff in a way that won't repeat itself in a big disaster. Patriot Front started as Vanguard America and the leader, Thomas, carried out a coup and rebranded it after one of the members drove his car into a crowd and killed a person. At the time, the alt-right was really trying to stress the differences between themselves and conservatives. It was spoken about as being about the "alt-right" vs. the "alt-lite." They were supposed to be the real deal while these other right-wingers were like the Diet Right. Aesthetics figure highly for these people, and at the time they used black, white, and khaki to stress a really militant, anti-system ideology (maybe even "anti-American" in a sense because the U.S. government is fake and gay, like right-wing anarchists). But after that, Thomas kept the khaki to keep the sorta military flavor but had his G.I. Joes wear blue to create more of an "American" look, because of optics, to blur the distinction a bit because they wanted to just look like "patriots" to these MAGA people. But they also started masking up, because a lot of them got doxxed in 2017 and they didn't want that happening again.
Their tactics also changed to emphasize flash mobs. They don't really want to get into any confrontations with an organized opposition because of the risks. It's a highly controlled kind of org because they don't want any surprises. It's like march here, at this time, stand there for X number of minutes, and then leave. Nobody going off half-cocked. Just enough for the photos to make Reddit mad. They arrive in a group and leave in a group. Also that does something for the members psychologically. At any rate, wearing masks and uniforms visually seperates them out from the surrounding population. People don't trust it. And I think that contributes in part to why people share the meme that they're feds, because it just looks fishy. The whole thing seems fake in some kind of way, and in a way it is artifically constructed by one guy who is the leader playing with these guys like they're Barbie dolls.
>>2858538what fucking wisdom are the trumptard americans going to pass down? 'we hope that russia and china are finally humbled' 'i wish i could be with you in the future to see the golden age of society being exactly the same as it was in the 1950s' etc
>>2858276Shut up, you pathetic troll. You are like a broken record repeating the "pedo" slur to tar and feather people.
Don't you have anything better to do? Who am I kidding? You're probably a bot created by 4chan or /pol/ or a fed to try to create fake "evidence" to try to shut us down.
>>2858497Unsurprisingly theyโre all fat
>>2858518Our theory is a theory of evolution, not a dogma to be learned by heart and to be repeated mechanically. The less it is drilled into the Americans from outside and the more they test it with their own experience [โฆ] the deeper will it pass into their flesh and blood. When we returned to Germany,
in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic Party as the only possible means of getting the ear of the working class; we were the most advanced wing of that party, but still a wing of it. When Marx founded the International, he drew up the General Rules in such a way that all working-class socialists of that period could join it – Proudhonists, Pierre Lerouxists and even the more advanced section of the English Trades Unions; and it was only through this latitude that the International became what it was, the means of gradually dissolving and absorbing all these minor sects, [โฆ] Had we from 1864, to 1873 insisted on working together only with those who openly adopted our platform where should we be to-day? I think that all our practice has shown that it is possible to work along with the general movement of the working class at every one of its stages without giving up or hiding our own distinct position and even organisation [โฆ]
- Friedrich Engels, Letter to Florence Kelley Wischnewetsky, January 27, 1887
John Adams to Abigail Adams, July 3rd 1776:
>When I look back to the Year 1761, and recollect the Argument concerning Writs of Assistance, in the Superior Court, which I have hitherto considered as the Commencement of the Controversy, between Great Britain and America, and run through the whole Period from that Time to this, and recollect the sizes of political Events, the Chain of Causes and Effects, I am surprized at the Suddenness, as well as Greatness of this Revolution. Britain has been fill'd with Folly, and America with Wisdom, at least this is my Judgment. – Time must determine. It is the Will of heaven, that the two Countries should be sundered forever. It may be the Will of Heaven that America shall suffer Calamities still more wasting and Distresses yet more dreadfull. If this is to be the Case, it will have this good Effect at least: it will inspire Us with many Virtues, which We have not, and correct many Errors, Follies, and Vices, which threaten to disturb, dishonor, and destroy Us. – The Furnace of Affliction produces Refinement, in States as well as Individuals. And the new Governments we are assuming, in every Part, will require a Purification from our Vices, and an Augmentation of our Virtues or they will be no Blessings. The People will have unbounded Power. And the People are extreamly addicted to Corruption and Venality, as well as the Great. – I am not without Apprehensions from this Quarter. But I must submit all my Hopes and Fears, to an overruling Providence, in which, unfashionable as the Faith may be, I firmly believe.
happy 4th
>>2858555>feds want workers to not waste their time supporting porky partiesi guess feds are based now
>>2858559>>2858527Note: Engels accomplished absolutely nothing throughout his lifetime except writing some books.
This is precisely why you idolize him and shun actual revolutionaries.
(USER WAS BANNED UNTIL HE ACTUALLY DOES ANYTHING) >>2858565you are in lockstep with the establishment dems who want their party Pure. definitely a fed
>>2858559Engels was the first and worst revisionist
>>2858569>Engels accomplished absolutely nothing throughout his lifetime except writing some books.Engels fought in the revolution in Germany in 1848 under August Willich
>>2858540Now that I think about it, MAGA types might be more likely to call them feds BECAUSE Patriot Front flies so many American flags, and really dress themselves up in that way (as conservatives do, they love their American flag bikinis). There's something about human psychology, the uncanny valley or something like that, where people who appear sort of like you but are kind of "off" in some kind of way is more unsettling than stressing difference. It's like zombies. So this attempt by Patriot Front to blur the distinctions a bit for optics reasons in order to appeal to the MAGA crowd, while also masking / marching / appearing out of nowhere (again, to avoid anything going wrong) ends up alienating the people they're trying to recruit. It's a contradictory thing.
>>2858566Apparently there's going to be a squadron of F-35s flying over me in a few hours. They're flying all over the city.
>>2858559>>2858569>>2858572(they cannot refute the quote so they resort to slandering engels with claims that aren't even true btw)
>>2858576It's just Felix ban evading. Funny, you'd have think he got the message from earlier
>>2858578can't stop laughing at the first image.
that cracked
american innovates, almost torn apart, in its 250 anniversary it's fun.
10/10 for innovation.
>>2858588>he didnt do anything except write books<actually he fought in four battles under a communist general who also fought to free slaves in the USA>well my original claim is BTFO so let me cope by re-framing the truth to sound le badyou're a worm.
>>2858569>>2858572the fuck? if anything Engels was more hotheaded than Marx, lmao.
in fact, modern-day self-identified "Marxists" that behave more like liberals, hate to be associated with Engels because Engels wrote
>On Authorityand that makes them seethe when they write intellectually flawed critiques on AES states, and such. they bastardize Marxism as a science without Engels, despite Engels edited and added whole sections of his own in most of Marx final works, with Marx's thumbs up.
Marx could kill with the weight of hundreds of words coming out his tongue, whenever he had seen a class-traitor.
Engels would have your head filled with lead for the same reason.
>>2858593>Marx could kill with the weight of hundreds of words coming out his tongue, whenever he had seen a class-traitor.>Engels would have your head filled with lead for the same reason.And yet people here will quote Engels in defence of bourgeois socialists and the DSA
>>2858591you're replying to two different people, but fighting a losing struggle is not accomplishing things. Engels' actual biggest accomplishment is editing Marx's works.
>>2858594>And yet people here will quote Engels in defence of bourgeois socialists and the DSAnot what happened. read one more time:
<Our theory is a theory of evolution, not a dogma to be learned by heart and to be repeated mechanically. Ok so Engels is saying look at the material conditions and don't simply apply lazy formulas or project the past onto the present
<The less it is drilled into the Americans from outside and the more they test it with their own experience [โฆ] the deeper will it pass into their flesh and blood. Engels is saying the working class movement in America will have to develop on its own and not merely drill itself on the Eurasian experience.
<When we returned to Germany, in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic Party as the only possible means of getting the ear of the working class; i.e. as a means, not an ends
<we were the most advanced wing of that party, but still a wing of it.i.e. you can be an advanced wing of a party that will later outlive its usefulness, like the pre-split RSDLP
<When Marx founded the International, he drew up the General Rules in such a way that all working-class socialists of that period could join it โ Proudhonists, Pierre Lerouxists and even the more advanced section of the English Trades Unions; i.e. you have to work with people even if you don't agree with them, at an early stage of the movement
<and it was only through this latitude that the International became what it was, the means of gradually dissolving and absorbing all these minor sects, eventually you can dissolve and absorb the opposing sects
<Had we from 1864, to 1873 insisted on working together only with those who openly adopted our platform where should we be to-day? i.e. the 1st international would have been much less successful without this strategy
<I think that all our practice has shown that it is possible to work along with the general movement of the working class at every one of its stages without giving up or hiding our own distinct position and even organisation [โฆ]i.e. you can disagree with DSA, PSL, CPUSA, etc. but you should still be trying to get rank and file members from those parties to come over to your position rather than writing them off a bloodthirsty fascists or whatever
>>2858597>but fighting a losing struggle is not accomplishing things.fighting and losing is an experience you can learn from, and always better than not fighting at all. you said all he did was write books, i proved you fucking wrong, and now you're shifting goalposts like the dust-licking worm you are because you will never ever ever so much as throw a single punch
>>2858597>you're replying to two different people,you split into two different worms every time you shift goalposts. soon you will become a whole bucket of worms
>>2858599Laughable ad hoc rationalization
Fuck off retard
>>2858604i will never fuck off just like you will never make any real points or put in any real effort
>>2858512they should have filled the capsule with a bunch of fentanyl and guns.
>see kids? this is America 2026. >>2858606Seethe, continue posting with retards who will set up shop with their masters whilst quoting Engels as a justification
>>2858608>>2858604Noticing you've still yet to address the actual organizing Marxist Leninist argument on why joining the DSA is a good thing
>>2858540Not to mention calling every mass shooter a fed plot to take our guns away means they don't have to acknowledge that the main form of far-right praxis(other than being a pedophile) is massacring random civilians
>>2858610>why joining the DSA is a good thingHang on, Houdini has a zine on this
Right next to his childhood art and cartoon characters
the gnostics of communism
<you must do nothing, for to do anything would be impure
The degree to which contemporary leftists and "Marxists" have become hostile to the American revolution, which historically Marxists have overwhelmingly seen as a generally positive historical event, is just another indicator of how deeply postmodernism has infiltrated and rotted the left. There's no sense of historical scale or progress anymore. Because the American revolution was a product of its time and place and did not solve all the questions it posed, "leftists" despise and ridicule it and even go so far as to side with a colonial slaver empire against its rebels.
Overthrowing the American government through guerilla warfare status?
Reading Lenin status?
>>2858619Have read all his major works. Imperialism is the second-greatest work of Marxist literature after Capital. Just like Capital, everything Lenin observed and analyzed in Imperialism still applies today in an even more advanced and concentrated form.
>>2858625>manifest destinyhistorically progressive
>>2858625Exactly what I'm talking about. They were 18th century men of a social class that no longer exists and they behaved accordingly. Such historical crimes and injustices should not be excused or minimized, but they also do not invalidate the genuine radicalism and democratic principles of the Revolution or its founding ideals.
>>2858629If you want to be a literate person with coherent political views, you can't just hand wave away something that literally defined the 20th century.
>>2858633A lot of things defined the last century. You are hyperfocused on one aspect because you take it like some eternally relevant parable or morality play.
>>2858633anon its been 30 years. most of us weren't even alive when the soviet union fell. I'm not the person you're replying to but I think there's a point that worshiping the USSR's corpse will just give you a repeat of its collapse.
>>2858635It's quite literally impossible to understand the most important geopolitical events of 2026 without a solid understanding of what the USSR was and how its collapse impacts the present day. The Ukraine war for example is downright incomprehensible if you ignore these things.
You're just trying to make excuses because you don't want to read.
>>2858636
Tankies:
>we need 1917 II
American imperialists:
>we need Operation Paperclip 2
>>2858637See:
>>285863830 years is nothing on a world-historical scale. Everyone alive today is breathing in the consequences of the Cold War and its conclusions.
>>2858641>>2858638Let me sum it up for you:
USSR lost
America won
China is still alive
China will win
Anything else is missing forest for the trees
>>2858625>>2858626Itโs actually pretty interesting reading Jeffersonโs letters on Natives because while he was obviously patronizing (I think he literally refers to Natives as โmy childrenโ) his thoughts on the Native issue seems heavily informed by at least some kind of materialism.
From what I understand he would write specifically about the Natives level of economic development and argue that it was an inefficient economic arrangementโie that there were huge tracts of land that wasnโt โusedโ in an agricultural sense because of the circumstances of the hunter-gatherer form of society, and by imposing agriculture on Natives they could โdo more with lessโ and thus open up new lands to white colonization and development.
Now controversially I donโt think Marx would disagree with his assertion; after all I think Marx still broadly conforms to Western notions about the
usage of land and its proper cultivation, however where Jefferson was incorrect is this patronizing belief that agricultural society and its social relations could be
imposed on the Native Americans without much bloodshed. Because while he may have been correct that agricultural methods could lead to more efficient usage of land, the social relations born from agricultural society would likely rankle native conceptions of freedom. Say what you will of tribal society but it comes with liberties that donโt seem to exist in agricultural counterparts; youโre not disciplined to the land as it were. So of course any imposition of European society on the natives would be rejected with force.
>>2858630>free people everywhere, everywhere in the worldInternational bourgeoisie are the only ones who can be argued to be free in this world
>Never worksCommunism is the real movement
>>2858644You'll find it in your mom's drawers
>>2858643>USSR lostCorrect. What does that mean for not the only the entirety of the former USSR, but also the Western socialist movement? Are you really so dense that you think the collapse of a global superpower has no effect on these things just because a few decades have passed?
>America wonMore debatable. In the short term, sure. But even by the 2010s it was becoming apparent to ever honest observer that American hegemony was on its last legs. Again, a process that is impossible to understand if you ignore the concrete impact of the fall of the Soviet Union.
>China is still aliveYes. Why does China in 2026 look so unfathomably different from China in 1986? Are you really so stupid that you think you can even attempt to answer this question without understanding the complex inter relationships of the USSR, the USA, and the PRC, and how the end of the former changed the political and economic landscape?
>China will winNo reason to assume so. China might win or China might collapse within a decade. Both theses are equally valid (or pointless, if you prefer) at this moment.
>>2858621I'd argue State and Rev is even more important but a good marxist should read One step/2 steps, What is to be Done, and his polemics etc in the immediate revolutionary period till his death
>>2858629I would say 'how about no?' but you're a subhuman being paid to post and disrupt here.
>>2858627>>2858638decent
>>2858638It is like in the 1840s and complaining about the consequences of Napoleon. The impact was that much yes and arguably the collapse of the USSR was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century because of an international superpower collapsing and there no longer being a check on US and NATO imperialism
>>2858630>muh hecking 1776the USA has dedicated itself to making sure the ho chi minhs and kim il sungs of the world are not allowed to have such a thing
in short, every time the third world tries to have its own 1917 or even just its own 1776, the USA calls it 1984
>>2858645>ie that there were huge tracts of land that wasnโt โusedโ in an agricultural sense because of the circumstances of the hunter-gatherer form of society, and by imposing agriculture on Natives they could โdo more with lessโ and thus open up new lands to white colonization and developmentThis was the standard "enlightened" Euro take at the time. You can see a lot of similar arguments from British Indian agents in Canada or going back even to John Locke. It may have been a bit better than the "FUCK YEAH KILL EM" mentality a lot of settlers had but it still led to the whole philosophy of "Kill the Indian, save the man" that basically destroyed their communities for the next 200 years.
>>2858468yeah they're really showing their whole ass with this. they love immigrants as long as it's azovites and afrikaners.
>>2858524You don't need LLMs or AI to use total surveillance. It can help but normal police work can push though such difficulties.
Lets say you go to a protest with masks on. With total surveillance the mask is now redundant because they can simply pull up the recorded camera footage and follow you until you take off the mask and ID you. They then can use the positive ID to track down your social media posts and see if you posted anything deemed subversive. If you try to hide or run they just go through the recorded footage each step until found.
AI can be used to help organize such data automatically but if it gets tricked by someone hiding in a box they just do it manually and follow the person from camera to camera. LLMs will be used for writing down verbal conversations onto a database. At that point they just need a simple keyword trigger for particular leftist phrases, talk of violence, protests, etc. Again this step can also be done manually by simply skimming over a persons conversations until the investigator sees something deemed dangerous. It's also easy for them to find collaborators once they have identified you and looked at who you talk to. Organizations can be gutted very quickly by this method.
Of course this method can be applied to more than just protests.
Felix, you can remove your ban if you post body, you dyel bitch
>>2858670Yeah, I apologize if I didn't make it clear that my point was you wouldn't really get a "happy ending" with such a mentality. Like even ignoring that I'm sure plenty of Natives didn't want to be forced to become farmers, I don't think any of the White settlers or colonial officials had an incentive to offer honest deals with them, quite the opposite in fact.
>>2858616People aren't hostile to an American revolution because they think it would be bad. They are hostile because they do not regard the American populace as having sufficient revolutionary potential, which is only supported by our supposed communists citing Engels to explain why people should run for office as Democrats, even though that party is completely different to what Engels was talking about here
>>2858559 - not even a US party but a German one (which is clear if you just read that quoataion):
>When we returned to Germany, in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic PartyThe people quote mining Engels like this are ignoring the actual political landscapes of the US and Germany at the time, as well as the fact that he's clearly talking about German politics. "Democratic Party" does not refer to one trans-historical ideology or organization. Engels is talking about joining the democratic movement in Germany of 1848.
Here is an article from the NRZ Marx and Engels wrote about the (German) Democratic Party:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/06/02.htmHere's an overview of the historical context summing it up:
https://sites.ohio.edu/chastain/dh/gerdem.htmIt was a relatively brief period which is why it's often missed, but this is also the context in which Neue Rheinische Zeitung was founded and the Communist Manifesto were written, so it is actually kind of relevant to know about.
In a nutshell the logic of Engels here is that there was already a bourgeois-democratic revolution brewing in Germany, and it should be the role of communists to push that forward since it would advance the development of historical materialism. Their long term plan was to carry the momentum forward into a later socialist revolution. The key difference here is that this was a time where there was
already a revolutionary movement brewing, and that the party in question was not a ruling establishment party but more of a fringe movement, comparable to any of the socialist parties in the USA today. Germany at the time was a confederation of 39 sovereign states replacing the Holy Roman Empire after the Napoleonic Wars. The United States would maybe be comparable to that era of Germany if it balkanized. Regardess, our closest contemporary equivalent to the (German!) Democratic Party of this time would be some party pushing for revolution, not entryism into establishment politics.
The US democratic party at the time wasn't even a "left" party of the US (the other major one was the Whigs lol) and in 1848 they were being undermined by the Free Soil Party for supporting the expansion of slavery into the territories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States)#Free_Soil_split<In 1848 a major innovation was the creation of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to coordinate state activities in the presidential contest. Senator Lewis Cass, who held many offices over the years, lost to General Zachary Taylor of the Whigs. A major cause of the defeat was that the new Free Soil Party, which opposed slavery expansion, split the Democratic vote.[27] The Free Soil Party attracted Democrats and some Whigs and had considerable support in the Northeast. Former Democratic President Van Buren ran as the Free Soil nominee in 1848 and finished second ahead of Cass in the anti-slavery states of Vermont and Massachusetts and in his home state of New York. Had Cass won New York as Polk had 4 years prior, he would have won the election. Free Soils warned that rich slave owners would move into new territories such as Nebraska and buy up the best lands and work them with slaves. To protect the white farmer it was essential therefore to keep the soil "free"โthat is without slavery. In 1852, with a less well known nominee than Van Buren, the free soil movement was much smaller, consisting primarily of former members of the Liberty Party and some abolitionists. It hedged on the question of full equality, as the majority wanted some form of racial separation to allow space for black activism without alienating the overwhelming northern opposition to equal rights for black men.Around the time of the US Civil war, a lot of communists moved to the US to fight (like August Willich, mentioned here
>>2858573 and here
>>2858583 along with a lot of other Prussians). They were also pursuing a strategy of supporting a bourgeois-democratic revolution against an archaic mode of production and social formation (plantation slavery of the US south), but this war was actually won. Unfortunately much of the radical and communist influences on the Union side of the war ultimately fizzled out and have become largely forgotten, not really making much advancement even on the more modest goals of securing civil rights.
These communists immigrants aligned with the anti-slavery Republican party which was new at the time (founded 1954), after the Whigs collapsed under the contradictions between its coalition (including capitalists vs abolitionists). Republicans were also the home of the "far left" (DSA equivalent) faction of the era, the Radical Republicans. The US democratic party took about a century to become the "left wing" party after the civil war, fully becoming codified with the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Even so, it is and has been a thoroughly bourgeois party, and quoting Engels about a different party in a different country in a different era has nothing to do with running in this party. Both mainstream parties in the US have only moved to the right in recent decades, and both are in a major state of decline.
The discussion of the US parties in 1848 is relevant here in a different way, to point out that whatever two parties are currently dominant are not necessarily permanent. The period between 1848 and the US civil war saw both the undermining of the Democrats by the Free Soil party and the collapse of the Whig party, to be replaced by the abolitionist Republicans. If we are to take historical lessons from the period it should be that it is indeed possible in this electoral system to humble or collapse the parties and usurp their power. There has been little success infiltrating and co-opting major parties (the trend is to yourself become corrupted in order to play ball with their intra-party politics). Meanwhile there are historical examples of major shifts if the parties over the centuries, reshuffling the factions and power into a new political landscape. Both of our parties are extremely weak in historical terms, and most Americans actively hate the politicians they are forced to choose from.
It would be much more useful to build a separate party that can overcome the two party system. And that's only looking an electoral focus, putting aside the need for labor militancy and other forms of praxis which neither major party would ever collaborate with, but a labor party or socialist party would. The DSA and other organized socialists are meaningfully in a position to threaten the hegemony of these two parties, which is not even as radical as what Engels was talking about in the quoted passage about joining the (German!) Democratic Party of 1848 which was pushing for a bourgeois-democratic revolution. The potential of this situation is hobbled by the commitment to working within the (US) Democratic Party, which is an issue that is going to force itself sooner or later. At the very least, the DSA and various socialist parties should be preparing to overtake the GOP and Democrats and, failing that, wage a power struggle outside of elections and the current government.
That is much closer to what Engels was talking about.
>>2858681>our supposed communists citing Engels to explain why people should run for office as Democrats,made up misinterpretation of what I was saying. try again. not reading the rest.
>>2858681>"Democratic Party" does not refer to one trans-historical ideology or organization. Engels is talking about joining the democratic movement in Germany of 1848.didn't even remotely suggest that was the case. god damn you just KEEP MAKING SHIT UP. Read this:
>>2858599 >>2858681you begin by assuming i was telling people to run as democrats, then you take that assumption, run with it, and all your arguments are based on that foundation
DON'T SUPPORT OR RUN AS DEMOCRATS, RETARD
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
now that i have said that, will you keep making shit up??????? probably
When, in the course of human development, existing institutions prove inadequate to the needs of man, when they serve merely to enslave, rob, and oppress mankind, the people have the eternal right to rebel against, and overthrow, these institutions.
The mere fact that these forcesโโโinimical to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happinessโโโare legalized by statute laws, sanctified by divine rights, and enforced by political power, in no way justifies their continued existence.
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all human beings, irrespective of race, color, or sex, are born with the equal right to share at the table of life; that to secure this right, there must be established among men economic, social, and political freedom; we hold further that government exists but to maintain special privilege and property rights; that it coerces man into submission and therefore robs him of dignity, self-respect, and life.
The history of the American kings of capital and authority is the history of repeated crimes, injustice, oppression, outrage, and abuse, all aiming at the suppression of individual liberties and the exploitation of the people. A vast country, rich enough to supply all her children with all possible comforts, and ensure well-being to all, is in the hands of a few, while the nameless millions are at the mercy of ruthless wealth gatherers, unscrupulous lawmakers, and corrupt politicians. Sturdy sons of America are forced to tramp the country in a fruitless search for bread, and many of her daughters are driven into the street, while thousands of tender children are daily sacrificed on the altar of Mammon. The reign of these kings is holding mankind in slavery, perpetuating poverty and disease, maintaining crime and corruption; it is fettering the spirit of liberty, throttling the voice of justice, and degrading and oppressing humanity. It is engaged in continual war and slaughter, devastating the country and destroying the best and finest qualities of man; it nurtures superstition and ignorance, sows prejudice and strife, and turns the human family into a camp of Ishmaelites.
We, therefore, the liberty-loving men and women, realizing the great injustice and brutality of this state of affairs, earnestly and boldly do hereby declare, That each and every individual is and ought to be free to own himself and to enjoy the full fruit of his labor; that man is absolved from all allegiance to the kings of authority and capital; that he has, by the very fact of his being, free access to the land and all means of production, and entire liberty of disposing of the fruits of his efforts; that each and every individual has the unquestionable and unabridgeable right of free and voluntary association with other equally sovereign individuals for economic, political, social, and all other purposes, and that to achieve this end man must emancipate himself from the sacredness of property, the respect for man-made law, the fear of the Church, the cowardice of public opinion, the stupid arrogance of national, racial, religious, and sex superiority, and from the narrow puritanical conception of human life. And for the support of this Declaration, and with a firm reliance on the harmonious blending of manโs social and individual tendencies, the lovers of liberty joyfully consecrate their uncompromising devotion, their energy and intelligence, their solidarity and their lives.
>>2858647so you're a trash throwing gremlin who has no interest in educating, agitating, organizing the working class, pulling them out of these reformist parties and into a real vanguard party. in fact you think even so much as reaching out to them and trying to pull them away from reformism is the same thing as reformism
>>2858681 (me)
Reply was meant for these posts:
>>2858559>>2858527At some point editing the links got replaced with this one
>>2858616 which is about a totally different topic.
>>2858627>Such historical crimes and injustices should not be excused or minimized, but they also do not invalidate the genuine radicalism and democratic principles of the Revolution or its founding ideals.That is the task at hand but it is difficult on the liberal and the greater left in general. Obama got decimated for having that position and it was a real wake up call that it is black and white. Even Abraham Lincoln is demonized as a racist white guy who only freed slaves out of convenience than principle. Typically use the quote about him saving the union and not free a slave. This is definitely a consequence of post-modernism and the nihilism towards the US and American institutions. The average American socialist from the 1900s-1960s never held this contempt towards the founders but we will see what the future will be. But to be honest it seems the left is stuck on that position
>>2858693>The average American socialist from the 1900s-1960s never held this contempt towards the foundersthe point shouldn't be to have contempt but to recognize the historical limitations of the first founding and the necessity of a new revolution that is not based on worshiping the founders. we have the oldest constitution in the western hemisphere.
how would trump run in 2028 guys
>>2858695>the necessity of a new revolution that is not based on worshiping the founders. we have the oldest constitution in the western hemisphere.This will be interesting because the legitimacy of the US comes from the continuous US constitution as a kind of "binding deal" and the chance when trying to form a new binding union the US balkanizes
>>2858599>i.e. you can be an advanced wing of a party that will later outlive its usefulness, like the pre-split RSDLPThe Democratic Party (in 1848 Germany) that Engels was talking about was already supporting (bourgeois-democratic) revolution. He is saying they joined it to push forward liberal revolution so that they could later make socialist revolution. That's addressed in the post
>>2858681There is no faction in the US pushing for a flawed revolution, only capitulation to varying degrees. They're not even seriously challenging the two major parties within the arena of electoral politics.
>>2858686>DON'T SUPPORT OR RUN AS DEMOCRATS, RETARDWhat does this mean then?
>>2858599<When we returned to Germany, in spring 1848, we joined the Democratic Party as the only possible means of getting the ear of the working class; >i.e. as a means, not an ends<we were the most advanced wing of that party, but still a wing of it.>i.e. you can be an advanced wing of a party that will later outlive its usefulness, like the pre-split RSDLPThe original post that started the discussion
>>2858518 is about the DSA running as democrats in elections, and these
>>2858527 >>2858559 replies are responding directly to that.
Im sad
>>2858650>I would say 'how about no?' but you're a subhuman being paid to post and disrupt here.Lol, I'm the one who disrupts. What am I disrupting at your end? Are you guys ever going to find the secret Lenin text that yeaches you how to do accomplish even one step towards your vague plan?
See, look. Even God doesn't want America to celebrate its century of humiliation.
>>2858685Communists should actually run as Democrats, because it's just how you participate in elections the US, and it's not even a bad thing, because they don't mandate any beliefs, and a multi-party system would've been much worse, because you would have to organize a huge national party to have any voice whatsover, most likely a one that would have to cross a 5% voting treshold, like it is the case in Europe, and good luck with that with constant ever more "pure" splinter groups, siphoning votes from the 1 party that has actually a chance of winning, so it really is quite a good thing that the Democrats are keeping all kind of different sects bound together, united under a common donkey
Guys the dumocrats have weaponised the weather. Now nobody can ride the ferris wheel.
>>2858710>That imageFuckin saved
>>2858670> it still led to the whole philosophy of "Kill the Indian, save the man" that basically destroyed their communities for the next 200 years.<Italians: Kill the Sicilian, Save the manThis happened with everybody all around the world as nations are built from people forced into national identities. Given enough time alone they would have eventually turned into competing agriculture based empires themselves. Aztecs and Incas show this process already starting.
>>2858670assimilation good
>>2858716So are you going to approve of Puerto Ricans only having education in English to assimilate
>>2858718mandatory language policy is reactionary. puerto rico should teach whatever language in schools that enables the freest economic intercourse, whether it be spanish or english, only in that way is it progressive
>>2858720At least Americans accept the revolution was fought only by petite bourgeois tax evaders.
Puerto Rico should be independent. So should Hawaii.
>>2858720>Prison, Police, Private PropertyPolice didn't fucking exist when the US was founded lmao they developed out of the slave catchers after the civil war.
>>2858725isn't the largest minority group in hawaii japanese? it would be a new nippon island
>>2858728
I'm sure most Northern Irelanders wouldn't vote for independence either. Still has to be done.
Filipinos might have also overtaken Hawaiian Japanese for first place idk. It's probably pretty similar.
>>2858711And if you go by American history when the differences get too big a party split will happen and a new party will replace the decaying one. People hate it but party infiltration is the best strategy to do in the USA
is this storm some hyped up bs? they're telling people to run to indoor shelter immidiately and do not shelter outside.
>>2858721>mandatory language policy is reactionary. puerto rico should teach whatever language in schools that enables the freest economic intercourse, whether it be spanish or english, only in that way is it progressiveBut that makes assimilation harder
Washington was right when he said political parties would ruin America. He was stupid, obviously, parties are inevitable. But he was still right.
American century of humiliation. Even nature is pissing on its bloated corpse.
>>2858739What are you afraid of a little rain, pussy?
>>2858722
It is like saying it is good that Canadians learn both French and English when the real showrunner is English. English will be the priority in this case and it is progressive because it is the international language of science and commerce. Spanish America learns English while Anglo-America can go there without knowing a lick of Spanish. So the responsibility is on them
Please Zeus. I beg you. Rain your thunder bolts onto the rotisserie chicken Trump ferris wheel and the Trump Phone stall. Please do it.
>>2858741Washington was just one step off from just calling for a one party state
>>2858725i know i'm gonna sound like a cuck nationalist for a second but everyone in those states is gonna fucking die the moment they separate from the united states
>>2858747That sounds like something a Brit would say about Jamaica or Barbados.
>>2858722>>2858744If people are mass taught and speak two languages fluently from birth you could easily merge the languages within a generation. English is already a combination of several languages because it's already happened a few times.
>>2858731Doesn't matter beyond increasing pointless paperwork.
>>2858616>>2858628I know this is a difficult concept for you illiterates to grasp but there's this saying "history is written by the victors" and in the case of the United States the victors were a class of wealthy slaver aristocrats (many of whom also raped their slaves) who along with their descendants suppressed and whitewashed the history of this country being primarily founded on slavery and that seceded from Britain primarily because, for all the many, many atrocities it committed around the world for hundreds of years, the British Empire was moving to abolish slavery for the simple fact that there were so many slave revolts happening that it was quickly becoming untenable as a mode of production. the Haitian Revolution in particular was a wake-up call for the European empires on the need to abolish slavery lest it continue to boil over into further revolutions, and not only that but they were even using this against each other by arming slave revolts in rival empires.
the North American colonies had an economy that was heavily dependent on slavery, and the Founding Fathers were largely all landowning elites whose wealth was stolen from the exploited labor of hundreds of slaves. so when word started to go around that Britain was moving to abolish slavery, a lot of these elites weren't happy about it. during the so-called Revolution, Britain actually guaranteed slave their freedom
in exchange for fighting on the side of Britain, and even after losing the war the Black Loyalists were still granted their freedom and moved to other territories. for this reason slaves overwhelmingly were Loyalists, because it was in their best interests, and because it was in fact being on the right side of history.
the 1776 "Revolution" is complicated as far as its historical progressiveness goes on the basis of it nonetheless representing the succession of the bourgeoisie over the rule of the feudal class, but on the whole it was ultimately the
reactionary entrenchment of a backwards mode of production (slavery) which opportunistically sold itself as being about the ideals of liberalism and that was shortly afterwards superseded by the French Revolution. but you never hear about any of this and it's only relatively recently thanks to the work of historians like Gerald Horne (vid related)[^1] that we're starting to get a full picture of just how regressive and backwards this country on the whole has always been.
most Americans don't know any of this shit and you certainly can't expect a bunch of foreigner Marxists in the 19th and early 20th centuries to have either. the reality if you actually study history is that Marx, Lenin, et al. had incomplete information whenever they praised the American "Revolution", and in the case of third world revolutionaries like Ho Chi Minh speaking approvingly of the American "Revolution" was more an attempt to win the good graces of the US by appealing to a misperceived notion of there being some sort of solidarity between the anti-imperialist struggles of the Vietnamese (and other former colonies) and that of the Americans.
as we all know, the United States did not see things the same way.
—-
- link to a PDF of the book he wrote on this https://dn710003.ca.archive.org/0/items/gerald-horne-the-counter-revolution-of-1776-new-york-university-press-2014-1/Gerald%20Horne%20-%20The%20Counter-Revolution%20of%201776-New%20York%20University%20Press%20%282014%29%20%281%29.pdf
>>2858746>>2858741functionally a zero party state and a 1 party state are the same thing. either way a class rules directly. A party is just a pretense.
>>2858740>But that makes assimilation harderpuerto rico will always be learning english because the requirements of economic exchange will always compel the nationalities living in one state (as long as they wish to live together) to study the language of the majority. there's no reason to make it mandatory, and it would only be regressive to make them stop learning spanish
The Fourth of July is CANCELLED
>>2858759i'm gonna watch shit blow up and eat food while quietly thinking to myself "I do not care much for the government and what it represents"
I am the silent majority
>>2858710retard, again, for the 100th time, I was not telling people to join, vote for, or support the UNITED STATES DEMOCRATIC PARTY
read:
>>2858599>>2858685>>2858686>>2858683 250 years of the American experiment and I'm supposed to believe the highest point of the nations prowess and power is a shittily cut field with plastic bottles littered all over it with a single ferris wheel and some poorly made tents that have a mechanical milking cow in one of them and a trump phone subscription booth in another.
>>2858714too bad i'm not a CIA agent nor was I dropping that engels quote to support the US democratic party
>>2858753>If people are mass taught and speak two languages fluently from birth you could easily merge the languages Long term is getting rid of the patriarchal language of Spanish and it being a gendered language. Spanish will end up fused into English and adding some things like Latin and French did. So the continent of America will speak English over Spanish and it will be better overall for assimilation and a better language
>>2858700>What does this mean then? exactly what it says. I was talking about working with DSA members and trying to siphon them away from reformism the same way marx and engels did with reformist tendencies, NOT advocating running DSA people as democrats, GOD DAMN
>>2858765Spanish will only add a word or two like Loco. But Spanish will end up dead by the end of the century at this rate as English is still the progressive language of the world
>>2858766ok byt why did you say democratic party then if you don't mean the democratic p[arty should be jioned by the communists when engwels wjoined the democratic party it's right there you said demopcraptoic paoryt,,,,,
>>2858768and when I say DSA people I mean rank and file people, not the leadership or the people who run as democrats
>>2858769>But Spanish will end up dead by the end of the centuryAmerican education.
>>2858770>ok byt why did you say democratic party thenI didn't say that, engels did. I was quoting him in the historical context of working with workers who were in reformist parties and trying to get them to join the international instead. I painstakingly explained the context and what I meant by it at least 3 times already
>>2858770> if you don't mean the democratic p[arty should be jioned by the communists when engwels wjoined the democratic party it's right there you said demopcraptoic paoryt,,,,,god damn you're drunk
>>2858767the language of the united americas will actually be Portuguese
>>2858772Yes you will be assimilated and it is better overall for progress and humanity. This will also strengthen socialism
>>2858777Portuguese is a patriarchal language like Spanish and will be expunged eventually as well
>>2858755>it was ultimately the reactionary entrenchment of a backwards mode of production (slavery) which opportunistically sold itself as being about the ideals of liberalism and that was shortly afterwards superseded by the French RevolutionAlso I have to stop you here because people at the time saw this as related phenomenon. The U.S. and revolutionary France were on the same side, more or less. Well it was divisive in the U.S. because the French Revolution was more radical, but the ancien regime in France was also stronger. There are left-wing historians like Horne who try to disconnect the two so the French Revolution was good and the American Revolution was bad but I don't think it hangs together.
>>2858775>I sdint say demcrtatic prytyYES YOU DID YOU SAID IT
>>2858779the only true american language left seems to be quebecois….
>>2858755hello agent johnson how are you tonight
>>2858784sober up
>>2858787he's saying basic obvious shit tbh
>>2858796oh just becasue I'm making just as much sense as everyone else here means I'm drunkkk????
>>2858765Nothing wrong with English picking up some new words. Also we should fix it's spelling conventions to be consistent with pronunciation.
>>2858767>the patriarchal language of Spanish and it being a gendered language.lol I know your trolling with the phrasing but you are correct. Grammatical Gender is pointless and inefficient.
>>2858781He's talking about getting rid of Grammatical Gender but pretending to be radlib about it lol
>>2858719plane wings sharp like katana
glorious nippon steel
folded over 1000 times
>>2858797if you sober up you'll learn what I meant when quoting engels which I already explained several times
Trumps new speech-tick is talking about communism again guys.
>>2858796no it was a reductive analysis that arrogantly assumes 19th and 20th century scholars were wrong. lenin literally wrote an article about how russian serfs were more enslaved than negros in america
>>2858800ok so democratic party is the party when englels joined the party of the demoractays so then you thnk that every communists should join the german democratic party of america that's clearly what you're saying social fascist…
>>2858780I was going to address this but couldn't quite think of how to word it properly other than maybe saying that the American "Revolution" was something like an incomplete liberal revolution, or a dress rehearsal for the event that marked a real historical shift (a revolution in the proper sense of the word) from feudalism to liberalism. I would argue (though this is a very out there "original research" type statement that'd take a lot of legwork to qualify) that the US being founded by aristocratic slavers and originally only granting rights to landowning men was more a democratization of feudalism than a properly liberal revolution, and that this continues in a form today that is widely recognized as being a kind of neofeudalism or technofeudalism. it's complicated because this contradiction between capitalism as a productive and historically progressive force vs. the interests of the bourgeoisie in holding back those productive forces to protect their own accumulated wealth has always been a major tension but I think it being particularly blatant in the history of the US is because the vestiges of feudalism haunts this country more than than in other liberal democracies.
I don't care about the revolution.
>>2858802>lenin literally wrote an article about how russian serfs were more enslaved than negros in americalol source.
>>2858803no. incorrect. not what I am saying.
Trump keeps saying he won the Iran War lol.
>>2858812No, no good. Keep them there.
>>2858812hahaha stupid cows
I don't think Trump knows what the "Communist Party" is. I think he assumes the DSA, the PSL and the CPUSA are all the same party.
I can't tell if this catastrophe is because Trump sucks all the money out of public projects or because America really has become that corrupt and shoddy.
>>2858816They are the same though. Same class basis. Same practically and theoretically. They moved by the same PACs. They have identical politic, all support platner
>>2858821>The emancipation of the American slaves took place in a less โreformativeโ manner than that of the Russian slaves.ok in this sentence he is pointing out the obvious: it took a civil war to end slavery in america, rather than reforms, like the ones passed in russia to end serfdom.
>That is why today, half a century later, the Russians still show many more traces of slavery than the Negroes.he is not saying the russians were "more enslaved than the negroes" he is saying that there are more traces of the institution of bondage left over after it ended. This is a completely different statement than what you said earlier:
<lenin literally wrote an article about how russian serfs were more enslaved than negros in americaThis is not what Lenin is saying in this quote. At all.
> Indeed, it would be more accurate to speak of institutions and not merely of traces. But in this short article we shall limit ourselves to a little illustration of what we have said, namely, the question of literacy. It is known that illiteracy is one of the marks of slavery. In a country oppressed by pashas, Purishkeviches and their like, the majority of the population cannot be literate.
>In Russia there are 73 per cent of illiterates, exclusive of children under nine years of age. Among the U.S. Negroes, there were (in 1900) 44.5 per cent of illiterates.He elaborates saying that literacy rates are still low in russia, lower than in america [fixed a typo here]
So in context he is not saying Russians were "more enslaved" than american negroes, he is saying that the serfs have not yet recovered from serfdom to the same extent black people had recovered from slavery. By the way, even with this more correct interpretation of what lenin is saying, it is important to remember Lenin is writing a polemic meant for Russians, in a pre-revolutionary Russia. His target for radicalization is obvious here. He is saying "Russians are so oppressed they are less illiterate than american negroes." and he is saying this to a Russian audience 4 years before October 1917.
Also Lenin is only using literacy as a metric here, in a polemic context.
If we look at other metrics, like the sharecropping system, prison slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the klan, and the loophole in the 13th amendment, Lenin's argument here becomes a lot weaker, as well as the exaggerated claim you were making while misinterpreting Lenin here.
>>2858827
the people of afghanistan have a literacy rate of 38%. i'd like to see a western marxist make the claim that any part of their highly industrialized nation has more traces of slavery than they do. to think that america is semifeudal now, let alone in 1776, is childish contrarianism
>>2858832what is this fucking goalpost shift
>lenin said russians were more enslaved than blacks in usa
<provide source
>here is my source
<it doesnt say that it says something else that makes a lot more sense about literacy rates
>ummm what about afghanistanโฆ are you saying america is semi feudal?????
this guy manโฆ. it's impossible to have a conversation that makes sense with this guyโฆ.
>>2858834the guy i was originally talking to before you rudely interrupted later claimed america was semifeudal
>>2858837well that's retarded and wrong
I hate US patriotism and nationalism and founding slaver worship in general but I also really hate this kind of performative anti-nationalism where people are like "YOURE LITERALLY A FASCIST WHITE SUPREMACIST HECKIN GENOCIDE CELEBRATOR IF YOU WATCH FIREWORKS TODAY" which reddit latestagecapitalism is doing right now. sorry if I'm gonna have to hear this shit blow up outside all day I might as well enjoy it and say hi to the neighbors. we have reached a point where knowing your neighbors and acting relatable is treated as anti-communism.
>>2858841thanks for letting us know
>>2858841>but I also really hate this kind of performative anti-nationalism where people are like "YOURE LITERALLY A FASCIST WHITE SUPREMACIST HECKIN GENOCIDE CELEBRATOR IF YOU WATCH FIREWORKS TODAY" You're actually a mass polluting PTSD-triggering traffic blocking pedophile ring and ongoing genocide celebrator but ok dude
So Trump isn't giving his long speech after all?
Not the PTSD, anything but the PTSD
>>2858849hes going to give it trust the plan
>>2858849It may get delayed but they were saying 9:45-10 eastern, so 30 minutes
>>2858758But it would help make it in line with the mainland and allow for much easier migration from the mainland to live in Puerto Rico
>>2858852>>2858849They just said they are gonna reopen the mall at 9:45 and Trump will speak at 11pm
>>2858855 post yfw they are all stuck in the goybunker until 11
>>2858853my aunt moved to puerto rico to dodge taxes. trust me, nobody on that island wants more people moving there, america assimilates just fine without mandatory languages
>>2858862>my aunt moved to puerto rico to dodge taxesThey also move to Texas and Florida. It is no difference and has more to do with policy. So more going over there is still a good thing and will connect the island even more to the mainland
>>2858855There's got to be better things to do with your time than that.
>>2858862More people leave that island than enter it since they're losing population.
>>2858864>More people leave that island than enter it since they're losing population.i stand corrected, that population chart over time looks abysmal. i still get the general feeling that puerto ricans dont like rich americanos moving there by the dozens but at least its being economically integrated
Odds Trump strokes out during his speech? I'm giving it 50:1
>>2858867>>2858867>puerto ricans dont like rich americanos moving there by the dozens but at least its being economically integratedSame thing with the Mexicans and Natives out west. Economic integration is good and it is why the harsh truth is that Manifest Destiny was progressive and in the longterm good. Puerto Rico turning into an English speaking state will benefit it
>>2858848i actually don't buy or set off fireworks but i will walk around and watch them, not sorry
>>2858842yeah
>>2858865i got a call from my retarded conservative uncle we talked about politics. it's funny the whiplash i get where i'll be talking to communists and having to hear bernie sanders is the second coming of adolph hitler or whatever and then I'll talk to my uncle and half to hear about how bernie sanders is a commie lunatic and literally the second coming of joseph stalin
>>2858872No, the US leaving and allowing latin america to actually develop on its own is for the best, inperialism is reactionary, not progressive
>>2858441damn anon i thought my birthday parties were small
>>2858505><rightoid grass touchers are fedsuygha PF
their sister group overseas had a group of news companies try to infiltrate it for an expose and actual feds tapped them on the shoulder and told them to stop putting their own infiltration
>>2858876This conversation is confusing cultural integration and economic integration with capitalism. Cultural integration and economic integration are good. Cultural integration increases mutual understanding reducing conflict and economic integration increase efficiency of labor.
It is only bad when people get taken advantage of by capitalists.
>>2858882Bloody Sunday massacre of Republican voters when
>>2858883>>2858889Thomas and a couple of other guys crashed off a highway because the driver fell asleep while on one of their cross-country stickering missions and one of them died too.
>>2858540>Their tactics also changed to emphasize flash mobs. They don't really want to get into any confrontations with an organized opposition because of the risks. It's a highly controlled kind of org because they don't want any surprises. It's like march here, at this time, stand there for X number of minutes, and then leave.Don't neglect to mention they intentionally do this after midnight or just after dawn to avoid confrontation with either antifascists or the general public.
>>2858887In short,diversity of the socialist USSR vs diversity of the capitalist USA
>>2858887โIntegrationโ under capitalist imperialism is just a euphemism for genocide
>>2858918capitalist imperialism has a diversity of methods of integration ranging from genocide at one extreme to multiculturalism at the other
>>2858921Wrong, itโs all genocide, thereโs soft genocide and hard genocide
>>2858920> transforming capitalism into socialism.wtf lenin was reformist omg wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf
>>2858923elaborate your theory of "soft" genocide
>>2858927The slow erasure of the identity of the colonized, the dilution of their culture and its appropriation by the colonizers
>>2858930personally i hope my culture and identity get erased and replaced with a global communist culture and identity. my local culture is retarded and dogshit.
>>2858934based internationalist alert
>>2858930>Get genocided>Still aliveHate this meme. Murder is clearly millions of times worse than "identity erasure."
Also every single cultural identity that fascists consider sacred didn't exist just few thousand years ago and is completely made up.
>>2858936culture is stupid. hurr durr we pray to a certain god or wear certain clothes or scribble our letters a certain way, if you take this from us it's literally heckin genocide. were europeans "soft genocided" when roman numerals stopped being used for math? that's erasure after all. or actually were they soft genociding sanskrit culture by "appropriating" their superior numeral system? Or maybe culture is always evolving, and isn't this static thing that should be preserved forever.
>>2858940NTA but raphael lemkin coined the term genocide to mean not just total extermination of a people, but something much more nuanced than that
<Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.of course the convention did not adopt his definition into law, and went with a more restrictive definition
>>2858946>disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, >and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individualsMy point is those are in fact two different things being smashed together into one definition. That sentence even divides it by an "and." First part is the destruction of an identity and culture that was never long lived anyway. The second part is the actual destruction of the living person. Changing the cultural brainwashing people get born into is not as bad killing individuals who only have one life to live. It's understandable why the law uses a more restricted definition and it's ridiculous to pretend it's the same thing.
>>2858955Isn't there something with the anti Christ and storms?
>>2858964#2 is same angle as 1, just edited with GTA meme
>>2858955Donโt you find it odd this trumps DOJ is supposedly fighting pedophiles yet refuses to prosecute anyone in the Epstein files?
>>2858968chuds just make it all up as they go along
Whatever just wake me when someone starts shooting
so no speech?
>>2858941You are literally inches of just calling genocide progressive if it means everyone is uniformed and the same
Im sad and bored guys whats happening
>>2858538>idealismInto the trash it goes
>>2858985I know your being sarcastic but that has more to do with bourgeois fine dining than it does with Italian culture lmao
>>2858988It is traditionally considered rude to wear a hat indoors anywhere.
https://bestlifeonline.com/rude-to-wear-a-hat-indoors/ >>2858989This goes back to the previous threads and points how some leftists seem to just be rebeling against everything for the sake of it. Like you got mad because your mom told you to take off your hat at Ihop and you have been resentful since
>>2858990Huh? What is this story you are concocting? The person I responded it is a "bourgeois fine dining thing" and I am just adding the correction that a man is supposed to take off his hat in any indoor situation by tradition.
>>2858991More responding to this rhetoric
>>2858985>>2858934Where it is juvenile at best
>>2858980what part of US and Israeli "culture" is worth preserving and would a global communist culture replacing them be "genocide?"
>>2858997the biggest threat to the left is shit like palantir, not some socdem offering a new bus route
>>2858998Saying its not the heat its the humidity
That must be preserved for the future
>>2858998The argument was that Puerto Rico should become even more assimilated to the US and eventually drop Spanish
>>2858997>It seems the biggest threat facing the left right now is from the rise of social fascists like the DSAThey are the left
>>2858998family barbecues, hot chicken sandwiches, extreme pornography, and peeing in the shower are all incredible contributions to humanity
>>2859004none of those are burgersraeli inventions
>>2859001the conversation has moved on, answer the question
zohran? literally killed rosa.
social fascism theory? the comintern never dropped it.
roosevelt? churchill? fascists stalin worked with to defeat the social fascist hitler
>>2859009
>owning the modern porn industry means your invented porn
tarded
>>2858990>>2858994What's funny about the scene is Tony thinking that fake Italian slop is some fine dinning establishment and he needs to defend it's honour. lmao at you for agreeing
>>2858997lenin had: army guys who were drafted into WW1 by the tsar and PISSED OFF
american communists do not want to reach out to the US army the way lenin reached out to the russian empire army because the US army is is a settler kkkolonial genocidal volunteer petty bourgeois treatler army and therefore inherently reactionary not a bunch of drafted proletarians in a civilizational state like russia. this is not my logic btw, I am just telling you the differential.
and you can ignore that differential or change the subject all you want. but it's a problem you will have to solve for if you are serious and want to seize power.
consider: the SRs had the support of the peasantry but Lenin had the proles and the soldiers. despite being outnumbered they were able to dissolve the constituent assembly precisely because they had the armed discipline. Will you be able to do the same?
>>2859007Any hypothetical socialist USA will have a complete Culturual Revolution that we wouldn't recognize it.
>>2859013>honourAre you even American lol. Not anything wrong but this can explain some things
>>2859018agreed. and I don't think that will be a "soft genocide."
As for culture in general, whether it is "indigenous" or "settler" it is always changing and not this static thing. It is ironically in the face of assault that a culture "hardens" in order to "preserve" itself but even then it still changes because survival means adaptation. As for "appropriation" of culture, it is odd that a culture can be "erased" and "appropriated" at the same time, since appropriation implies the reproduction of the culture by a group who was originally not a part of it. Westerners adopted Sanskrit numerals because they were practically superior to Roman numerals for mathematics. Roman numerals only lived on in limited usage like preface page numbers, clocks, etc. Were westerners "culturally appropriating" sanskrit numerals and therefore committing "soft genocide" and "erasing" the culture of the Indian subcontinent? Reminder sanskrit numerals arrived in the west through the Muslims, so this has nothing to do with the actual genocidal policies of the British empire that came much later.
I think a part of the western left, in good faith, wants to make amends for the genocide, slavery, and colonialism, but in doing so they lapse into a sort of cultural relativism and religious moralism where everything is worth preserving as long as it came from an "indigenous culture" or a "civilizational state" as opposed to a "settler culture".
But I think in reality humans have always been on the move, always changing, and no culture is static. The Greeks for example no longer worship Zeus. They are much more attached to a religion which came to them from the levant: Christianity. A Greek conservative would see preserving culture and tradition as preserving Christianity. The western left, much like conservatives, are interested in preserving culture and tradition, just for historically marginalized groups, rather than everyone in general.
I say build a better culture for all humans: Communism. Americans should be forced to use the metric system. Why? The rest of the planet uses it. Standardization helps with science and safety btw.
>>2859019not him but I sometimes find myself spelling "labor" the British way (labour) after way reading Marx.
>>2859023if you want to make a bunch of boomers really fucking mad comment "AI slop" on that vid
>>2859023I love how the predominant forces dont even attempt to subsume counterculture like this anymore. Even though there isn't really a counterculture to subsume anyways atm. The only counterculture now is explicitly political, which I think may be why we feel a certain zeitgeist that's different than usual
>>2859037If I were that one guy I would be very uncomfortable with dixie patch faggot next to me
>>2858981chuds are chudding out
wokes are woking out
the real movement is holding still
>>2859042>2 years agoEver since then they haven't tried. And that was barely an attempt.
>>2859061based and ur mad
>>2859061If I had a shitton of time I'd
pdfgrep *.pdf "genghis" > genghis.txt
in my MECW library to see what M&E actually wrote about Genghis Khan and shove it into Haz's face
>>2859072they were writing in the 19th century so God only knows how they would have spelled it. Chinggis Khan, maybe? In some instances you even see his birth name Temujin Borjigin used.
>>2858997Start a 15 people sect instead of a D$$A chapter. Btw I'm the leader so you guys have to listen to me if you wanna join. Disagreeing with me is banned and starting another group within the party is banned. I await your applications
>>2858964if first vid isn't the next thread's starter vid I am hashtag unsubscribing from /oosapol/
>>2859061>words words wordsCity dwelling latte drinking glasses wearers wrote this meme, not common people.
>>2859088City dwelling latte drinking glasses wearers are the "common people" in the USA, which is to say that 80% of you are scum.
>>2859061doesnt this contradict the pro-islam ? i
>>2859091>write english and have internet. You are a western intellectual. You will not survive the Day of the Plow.
>>2859061Oh joy, more grifting from the rich-kid con-artist Haz. Seriously why haven't people wised up to the fact that Haz is simply a con-man grifting you.
Seriously these "PatSocs" and "Conservative" Mano-sphere guys are all con-men trying to fleece you.
Read this
>>2854718 Trump holds "worst July 4th ever"
Asked to leave the Mandate of Heaven.
>>2859110>destroying organized human civilization is actually what they like about him.Khan actually was remarkable figure who was born a slave and became a capable politician who successfully reorganized Mongol society. His laws and the centralization of resources untied them and turned them outwards in their conquests. If he wasn't born the Mongols would have keep infighting and never truly became the force they ended up.
Saying figures from far history are proto-communist is counter productive. It doesn't explain historical materialism, if anything it complicates matters.
>>2859110You are wrong. Angkar destroy old system of exploitation to build new system free of exploitation.
>>2858989>โฆtraditionally consideredโฆanywhereBy the bourgeoisie
>>2859133Yes it does. The Great Khan outlawed slavery. The Great Khan killed the old slave owners. The Great Khan couldnt have succeeded in liberating so many people and smashing so many waning slave states and empires in his life-long campaign of destruction of old slave system without building new system that benefits his new subjects. The slaves were already destroy old slave system and The Great Khan was the revolutionary agent who saw this most clearly, and precipitated this, which is in-itself a demonstration of his grasp of principles of historical materialism. You are wrong
https://assignedmedia.org/breaking-news/supreme-court-trans-sports-helen-lewis/It's funny to me in a bleak sort of way that American news companies have to import British journalists (perhaps the most Hitlerite little group ever to exist) to libwash reactionary moves by the US government for the consumption of "moderate" dems afraid of having to take a stand for token social liberalism.
>>2859152It's ok to post as yourself again, Haz
>>2859159>you can be a communistcomrade don strikes again
>>2859154It won't have the results they want in the US because democrats are actually solid on the issue due to LGBT interest group being unseparable from the DNC structure since Obama. Dems being pro-trans wasnt just noblesse oblige like Labour being pro-trans (and they not).
>>2859154lgbt groups are much more conservative in england, they are firmly in the anti immigration camp which is strange compared to how the movement works here
china pls invade
>>2859165Have you not looked at a walmart or a target?
>>2859164LGBT groups in western europe are weak and depend on the center-left goodwill they arent comparable ro American LGBT which possess actual hard-power in tech, politics, finance and medecine.
Youโre not gonna overthrow the government, only the government is capable of that and theyโll never want to
>>2859179So were the weathermen that youโre inevitably going to repeat, have fun blowing yourself up making โbombsโ you martyrdom cultist
>>2859177Chinese LGBTs have an entire city in Chengdu, now Gaydu
>>2859164It's almost as if "being gay" had zero impact on the rest of your political life like "being str8" is.
>>2859184Depends entirely on how much shit you get for your gayness, if you get cut off from family, if it lumpenizes you
>>2859159>Liberty, divinest word ever coined by human brain or uttered by human tongue, is the issue in this campaign. >It is the spirit of Liberty that today undermines the empires of the old world, sets crowns and miters askew, and in its onward elemental sweep is shaking the institutions of capitalism in this nation, as frail reeds are shaken in the blasts of the storm kingโs fury. It was Carlyle who said of the results of the French Revolution that โdemocracy had destroyed the reign of the aristocracy of parchment and in its place had established the reign of the aristocracy of the money bag, the only compensating feature of which was that the reign of the latter would be of infinitely briefer duration than the former.โ Truer words neโer fell from human lips. Kingdoms and dynasties founded upon parchment have endured for a thousand years, but after a reign of less than half a century the kingdom of capitalism, the reign of the money bag in America, totters upon its throne and needs but the breath of a united proletariat to plunge it into that oblivion which Liberty has consigned the oppressors of mankind in every age of the race. Upon a million hearthstones in America the newly lighted fires of Liberty burn today. With an inspiration born of necessity the toilers of America are uniting under the crimson banner of socialism for the final struggle of human emancipation. From factory and mine, from field and farm, the gladsome cry of Freedom echoes on and ever on. Faster and ever faster the battalions of laborโs hosts are wheeling into action; with the irresistible onward sweep of the oceanโs tide, the workers of the world march upon the citadels of capitalism, the defiant cry of unconditional surrender upon their lips, the unquenchable light of Liberty in their eyes. >Capitalism stands revealed to the workers of the world as the incarnation of human greed, of human avarice, of human hate, of human slavery โ the incarnate enemy of the further progress of the human race. The issue is not Wilson and the Democratic Party, but Capitalism, the father of the Democratic Party and its politicians. The issue is not Taft and the Republican Party, but Capitalism, the father of the Republican Party and its politicians. The issue is not Roosevelt and his so-called Progressive Party, but Capitalism, which spawns politicians and reformers of the Roosevelt type. The issue is not the Tariff, but Capitalism, the father of all tariffs. The issue is not the punishment of Malefactors of Great Wealth, but Capitalism, the father of all malefactors of whatever grade of wealth. The issue is not Child Labor, but Capitalism, which is the father of child slavery. The issue is not the Prostitution of the Mothers, Wives, and Daughters of the Workers, but Capitalism, which necessitates that prostitution. The issue is not Poverty, but Capitalism, which demands the pauperization of the workers of the world in order that capitalism may flower and flourish. The issue is not Morgan and Rockefeller and the ten thousand other millionaires who plunder the workers of the world, but Capitalism, which enables the Morgans and the millionaires to plunder the workers. In plain, Socialism groups all the so-called โissuesโ of all the corrupt capitalist political parties of whatever brand or name under the head of Capitalism and it damns them to eternal political perdition for their hypocrisy, their gross political immorality, and for their base betrayal of the worldโs workers.<t. Debs >>2859180Deranged liberal
>>2859188Iโm not the one who thinks revolution is possible or desirable in America, thatโs you
>>2859187ACP should lean way harder into Debs but unfortunately they're retarded.
>>2859191I don't think the ACP will ever achieve anything besides LARPing as Chinese/Russian/Iranian/Yemeni tbqh. I'm counting on the factional struggle within the DSA yielding a workers' party.
>>2859177the leader of Germanys AFD is in a lesbian relationship with an immigrant lol. lgbt have plenty of hard power there it just isn't on the left
hot take, SGM, short for sexual and gender minorities is a better and more accurate acronym than LGBT and a bunch of other letters they have to keep adding because people find new and niche identities
>>2859159Conservatives have zero rights to talk a about patriotism. I would go far to say Conservatives are an inherently criminal, treasonous and anti-human sub species and there's zero reason to respond to the laptop dogs of the international pedophile cabal. The most anti-american 3rd worldist is more patriotic amd has done more for American than any Conservative has done or Will ever.
>>2859189Deranged insane liberal
>>2859202>The most anti-american 3rd worldist is more patriotic amd has done more for American than any Conservative has done or Will everPretty cucked to be honest
>>2859203Trusting Americans with revolution is more deranged than any strain of liberalism
>>2859177The leader of the German far right party is a lesbian and the leader of the conservative faction within the current German center-left governing party is gay, the leader of the French far right party is gay. What do you mean?
>>2859207Gorky remains vindicated
>>2859207conservative center right party'
>>2859177>American LGBT which possess actual hard-power in tech, politics, finance and medecineYou said "hard power" and thought you meant weapons.
>>2859198>I don't think the ACP will ever achieve anything besides LARPing as Chinese/Russian/Iranian/Yemeni tbqh.If those guys took over the country I'd join the Wolverines. The patriotism stuff on their part is to compensate for wanting to LARP as the Mongols. It's more of an optics thing, doesn't feel organic to me. Patriot Front has the same issue.
There was a funny video where the Moscow head of Dugin's org interviewed Haz and he was like, well, really the essence of America is to be an autocracy-loving landed empire like Russia (not the land of liberty). Because the Duginist guys really do believe in that and you don't need civil liberties because you can feel powerful being the seat of an empire that dominates its neighbors. The Duginist didn't buy it. He was like hmm yeah sure but America is actually defined by the shit we hate.
Also the country-western chuds they admire so much love decadence. If they think LGBT people are bad… they need to go to more pop-country concerts. Or hang around some 1%ers. If you want to see binge drinking.
>>2859221is america a continental power or a maritime power ๐ง
>>2859222I don't buy this civilizational archetype stuff to the extent Dugin takes it. It's like some intellectual madness. There are a lot of highly mobile rootless Russians all over the world in all kinds of crazy countries. They don't form very sticky diaspora communities either.
>>2859177>American LGBT which possess actual hard-power in tech, politics, finance and medecine.I like how any marginalized group which is barely out of the woods of being despised by the majority is said to have "power"
Not being hate-crimed at random anymore is not the same as having power.
It reminds me of how klanners said the South was subject to "black rule" after the civil war… because black people weren't enslaved anymore, black men were allowed to vote, and a couple got into office every now and then … wow "black rule" big if true
>>2859202>The most anti-american 3rd worldist is more patriotic amd has done more for American than any Conservative has done or Will ever.based
>>2859231you could argue in an archaic way that gay people do have power, but to whine about it as if it's something to worry about rather than a fact of a group of people acquiring ascendancy after being treated equally, is silly, and obviously should just be heavily criticized
>>2859015This is material fact though. The vast majority of American troops love it and want to be there.
>>2859103yeah for sure it's just fun to riff
>>2859236The absolute refusal to admit that the material conditions of a volunteer, colonial army are wildly different from the conditions of the Tsarist army in the early 20th century is one of leftypol's stupidest positions, and this is a site so stupid that they have largely rehabilitation Strasserism.
>>2859235i mean the acp are white nationalists, what else did you expect from them?
>>2859207Bardella isnt gay but LGBT having power isnt about having famous important politicians anyway. It's the things i mentioned.
>>2859231I never said it was a bad thing, quite the opposite. Look at how quickly things can reverse with the Labour trans rights situation when these conditions arent met and LGBT merely depend on begging.
If LGBT wasnt so entrenched within the DNC structure the same would have happenned, meanwhile "conservative" dems like Collin Allred can't even win primaries. And the dems never moderated on trans issues despite every second Matty Yglesias pundit begging them to.
dear moderators and esteemed janitors, may we place a wordfilter on strasserism
>>2859246replaced with what?
>>2859246nah, it's too important and historical. wordfilters are for meme spam and slurs.
>>2859244i get what you're saying now thanks for clarifying
>>2859249strasserism IRL was nothing but a small ideology in the nazi era, promoted by various german exiles, then afterwards, was a form of catholic corporatism that abandoned its nazi roots, it is unimportant, but what you call it, your version of strasserism is just western social democracies, various people you don't like, and so on
>>2859243they're chuds but they don't strike me as white nationalists. Nationalists? Yes. White nationalists? No. Their whole thing is social conservatism mixed with internationalism as an expression of a kind of multipolar ideology. Like white nationalists are fine with bombing Iran and locking up Maduro. ACP, for all their faults, are not.
>>2859256> your version of strasserismi have a version of it? you must be confusing me for someone else in this conversation.
>>2859256You can't seriously advocate for building a Volkgemschaft and then say you're not a national socialist.
>>2859260Itโs called the Democratic Socialists of America, and AOCIA is your next Hitler
>>2859265another day. I wake up. Same nightmare as yesterday.
>>2859191>should lean way harder into DebsHow much harder? Because the same forces who dislike ACP also purity test Debs for his take on the American Revolution
>>2859224>There are a lot of highly mobile rootless Russians all over the world That is by designed because they are typically liberal Russians who hate what Russia is and typically move to the garden over the "barbaric" Moscovy
>>2859268I don't think I've seen them or Haz mention him at all tbh. It makes their patsoc shit feel extra manufactured since they don't even really bother to draw on America's own socialist traditions and history of class struggle. Debbs had an excellent talent for putting socialist ideas in terms that meshed well with American culture and national character.
>>2859270American "culture" and national character are both explicitly fascistic in nature though. They are as compatible with Communism as oil is with water. Especially now, that American "culture" is fully commodified.
(Rule 11) >>2859272You guys just blurt out whatever bullshit pops into your head don't you?
>>2859270Their preference is clearly William Z. Foster who had more revolutionary beliefs while Eugene Debs is similar to DSA today where he started off as a Democrat and went to the Socialist party. At best he is a demsoc and at worse he is a socdem. Debs isn't a revolutionary and if he lead a movement today would be like Bernie Sanders.
>>2859273You're such a fascist yourself that it seems normal to you but mainstream American "culture" is openly fascistic. Americans worship people like Chris Kyle and Graham Platner. They watch Yellowstone and Downton Abbey. Their "music" is just name-dropping luxury brands and doing drugs. American culture is fascistic and the fact that you don't notice it means you are the same.
>>2859258by white nationalist i don't mean they're literally white nationalists, but more in the sense that they focus too much on the white parts of america, dismissing evidence to the contrary, and likewise them being "internationalists" doesn't preclude them from racial nationalism, or white nationalism, many white nationalists actually like iran, many did historically too, many of them also opposed it
>>2859260i did confuse you for the type that goes on about how everything that isn't the most braindead of projects is "strasserism" because anyone who tends to bring it up as "important" does so
>>2859261>>2859263factory status? power plant status? weather station status?
>>2859263>your<something that isnt mineput it back where you found it ayy
>>2859276ok? and then what are you gonna ask to do with that? impotent rage? turner diaries-tier revenge fantasies? you have more in common with right wing militia groups than you do with actual socialists, communists, anyone else
>>2859278>i did confuse you for the type that goes on about how everything that isn't the most braindead of projects is "strasserism"ok thanks
> because anyone who tends to bring it up as "important" does soit's just really gay to censor words because some asshole spams them off topic. like what if I actually wanted to make a thread about the topic in its historical context only to find out mods had made some obscure word filter? like the word filters are already god awful as it is. i can say "jewish nigger" but I can't say pic related's name
>>2859280he wants you to create a crisis or something. no he wont do it himself
>>2859272>Eugene Debs was fascistok
>>2859281>it's just really gay to censor words because some asshole spams them off topic. like what if I actually wanted to make a thread about the topic in its historical context only to find out mods had made some obscure word filter? like the word filters are already god awful as it is. i can say "jewish nigger" but I can't say pic related's namei think the word filters suck but it's more about the point being made, obviously such a thing would harm a thread, but it is also used say 85% of the time in a completely alien context, so while i can understand it hurting bad actors who just use it as a byword for "thing i don't like :(" it does also harm those who do actually talk about it
>>2859282obviously, someone like felix is nothing but someone who shouldn't be taken seriously since all he has is revenge fantasies, rants about how if you do a spear of the nation strategy, you'll definitely overthrow america! just follow the plan! while proceeding to do nothing
>>2859276I never said I don't notice reactionary trends in American culture. But the statement "American culture is explicitly fascist" is such an overbroad and unfalsifiable statement that it's not even worth engaging with. First off, do you know what the word "explicit" means? It means deliberately and openly referring to itself as such. Where in mainstream American culture are people going around saying how they are proud fascists? Where is anybody apart from the fringe calling themselves that? Second, "American culture" is such a broad concept that treating it as a single thing is just nonsense. Is the writing of John Steinbeck fascist? Is the music of Woodie Guthrie fascist? Is it fascist to play baseball? Is it fascist to celebrate Juneteenth? Is it fascist to like hamburgers? At this point I'm convinced people like you are just misanthropes who hate everybody around them and need a flimsy ideological justification for it.
>>2859286>I never said we all know that doesn't matter to him. you said "debs"
you said "america's socialist traditions"
that triggered him
now apologize for triggering him
>>2859285>while i can understand it hurting bad actors who just use it as a byword for "thing i don't like :(" it does also harm those who do actually talk about ityes, glad we agree
>>2859286>At this point I'm convinced people like you are just misanthropes who hate everybody around them and need a flimsy ideological justification for it.this is pretty obvious and at this point, giving these types credibility does nothing but pretend that they're of equal value, which they repeatedly prove they aren't, all they want is to post revenge fantasies and LARP, that's it, nothing more, nothing less
>>2859278>but more in the sense that they focus too much on the white parts of americaThis is exactly why the left is divided in the US. What does "too much on the white parts" even mean? It is like the great sin for people to go into those parts lmao
>>2859274>Debs isn't a revolutionary and if he lead a movement today would be like Bernie Sanders.Lenin didn't seem to think so, he spoke very highly of Debs and called him "one of the most beloved leaders of the American proletariat". He also quoted him in his own writing.
https://revolutionsnewsstand.com/2025/08/26/lenin-speaks-of-debs-by-alexander-thrachtenberg-from-the-communist-vol-14-no-6-june-1940/ >>2859291it's pretty obvious? giving the other side of america credibility and focus, because they're a sizable chunk of the population, i'm not saying "do a bunch of performative bullshit" i'm saying "show more than just white america in order to appeal to more people"
>>2859295Does that even work? Mamdani barely highlighted that in his campaing and managed to get most of the minority population running behind him anyway
>>2859298he appealed to it more indirectly, he showed what new york was, a multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic city, and he also offered change, which he delivered pretty quickly, if something like the ACP is to actually work, even become something of true value, then it must emphasize this reality, and campaign in the reality of the world at large
>>2859220>asian brainwashed people for kirk.damn, son.
>>2859290In his defense, larping and revenge fantasies are fun, maybe even a good outlet for your stress if you donโt overdo them (felix and chagosanon are guilty of this and need 12 step program)
>>2859004>family barbecuesAfter Columbus landed in the Americas in 1492, the Spaniards found Taรญno roasting meat over a grill consisting of a wooden framework resting on sticks above a fire. This framework was also used to store food above ground and for sleeping. The flames and smoke rose and enveloped the meat, giving it a certain flavor. Spaniards called the framework a barbacoa, from which we get barbecue. So no, not a burger or israeli invention.
>hot chicken sandwichespeople have used bread to hold meat and vegetables forever
>extreme pornographypornography has existed in drawn, sculpted, or written form forever, and if you really want to focus on "Extreme" here, one need only point to the writings of De Sade
>peeing in the showerok you can have that one
>>2859312catharsis theory is debated. arguably you are just releasing cortisol and damaging your body
>>2859313thanks i needed some music, i'm gonna go clean the house now
>>2859317You can bribe a conscripted politician too
>>2859317nobody learns anything, and the ones who do become grifters whose job it is to play dumb
>>2859319trvke
If the american proletariat doesn't benefit from imperialism then why do so many american socialists tell workers to vote for a bourgeois imperialist party?
>>2859326Perceived harm reduction. The Soviets told them to do the same thing.
>>2858423On August 1, we the party of labor of America will have its first public meeting. In the greenway near Charlottetowne avenue. You are invited to join.
>>2859312it's not productive, which is the concern, you don't really achieve anything through revenge fantasies, maybe LARPing, but certainly not a revenge fantasy like they do
>>2859326everyone benefits from imperialism in some form, brazillians vote for the PT in order to improve their conditions, and the conditions of others
>>2859326the american proletariat does "benefit"from imperialism in the sense that they get access to some resources and goods that were extracted through the "free" market, but not to the same extent that they are harmed by capitalism. basically everyone would be better off without capitalism and imperialism, but there would be a brief revolutionary period where everyone's quality of life goes down, because that's what revolutions and civil wars do. Putting off revolution because it would cause a decrease in your quality of life is like putting of chemotherapy when you have cancer.
>>2859327I think it's funny that people keep doing the "social fascism" line to shit on succdems when the comintern literally worked with liberals to overthrow fascism. Like look at the actual current circumstances instead of projecting the 1920s onto the 2020s. people want to treat DSA as somehow… what ? friends of patriot front? friends of proud boys? the moderate wing of the klan? give me a break.
I hope everyone had a nice 4th of July!
>>2859330> people want to treat DSA as somehowโฆ what ? friends of patriot front? friends of proud boys? the moderate wing of the klan? DSA: "Graham Platner isn't a real nazi, he said trans rights! There's literally nothing wrong with him being a Abu Ghraib prison guard, you're the real nazi for noticing our consistent anti-Stalinist Zionist ideology of globalists who SMASH THE AUTHORITARIAN STATE to traffic slaves to torture and rape them in our private islands"
I just saw a reddit thread about this:
https://old.reddit.com/r/PeterExplainsTheJoke/comments/1uo0unl/petah_who_is_the_man_in_dark_hood/>give me a breakthe liberal Zionists are tiiiiiiired yall
>>2859004>none of those are burger contributions Americans really have nothing but consumption as their culture
>>2859330The KKK doesnโt have millions of casualties on their hands the way the DemoKKKratic Party does. As the DSA is the moneychangers approved social fascist caucus of the DemoKKKrats it is complicit in their crimes
>>2859293>>2859297>>2859306Should be clear that I am not condemning Eugene Debs as bad for being a demsoc. But just pointing out a different outlook where Debs was a demsoc which eventually lead to the split with the SPA that formed the CPUSA.
>>2859341Looks like the battle of hogwarts. Literally fascism.
That fireworks display was the worst fucking thing I have ever seen. It had no pattern or even colored fireworks. It was just bright pus-yellow explosions that looked like distant artillery barrages.
>>2859342And weโve already long since established that the CPUSA has been a fundamentally fascist organization since the 50โs at the latest, big woop for Debs. Epic American leftism moment!
>>2859345fascism is when you do things i don't like
Debs would have built a better state fair.
State fairs are fascist.
The Peoples State Fair
Everything is fascism except for actual fascism which is anti-imperialism
>>2859286The number of people who celebrate Juneteenth and listen to Woody Guthrie is microscopic compared to the number who listen to Jason Aldean and celebrate the 4th of July and you know this, but you still pretend as if the former is mainstream and the latter does not exist.
This is because you are a fascist yourself and are inherently drawn to protect your own from critique.
>>2859353Either come back with a bombed out factory or CPUSAnon's head or dont come back at all
>>2859337Stalin sucked and was wrong about most everything.
>tried to get a lib-red alliance to contain Hitler<libs say no and are hoping Hitler crushes communism in its cradle >tried to do a red-fash alliance with Hitler <Hitler betrays him obviously >wanted socialism in one country<force to export revolution regardless Stalin loved collaboration he would love the DSA as well
>>2859357You are literally showing step by step why Stalin made those decisions. The libs wanted the Nazis and the Soviets to destroy each other in one massive conflict. The "betrayal" happened after Hitler secured the Western front with the Brits pretty much being an yelling old man in the clouds. Also wanted socialism in one country is a strawman. It isn't so much "want" than it is "needed" at the time. The Soviets were preparing for a big conflict around the mid-late 1940s so were militarily building up. It is why Germany attacked the USSR when it did. People thinking permanent revolution and war with Europe was smart would have given lebensraum to Germany on a silver plate
>>2859359>we want a parliamentary system>we want a prime minister>we want the Europeanization of the USA Same imperialist content different mask
>>2859360Thats what Stalinist tell themselves. The reality is that if the red army reinforced the global communist movement during the 1920s through the 1930s there would have never been a Hitler or ww2. Capitalism was at its absolute weakest during the lead up to the great depression. Instead he gave breathing room to capitalism to recover and morph into fascism and social democracy. Stalin was forced to confront the contradictions he allowed to fester.
>>2859362Yeah man recognizing a free Palestine, ending aid to the Zionist Entity, and ending sanctions on Cuba and Iran is le imperialism
The white house interfering in the football world cup will be it's downfall. Calling it now.
>>2859367Erm…by communism and socialism they mean national socialism sweaty…
>>2859242>The absolute refusal to admit that the material conditions of a volunteer, colonial army are wildly different from the conditions of the Tsarist army in the early 20th century The fact that the Tsarist Army was mostly conscripts demoralized and devastated by WWI contributed a lot to a revolution happening, but we're also making an argument that no revolution has really ever succeeded without at least partial military support, mutinies, defections. The working class also works in munitions plants. Really a full-blown social revolution like that is a mass event which includes soldiers as civil unrest turns into civil war. Doesn't seem all that likely if you ask me, but the U.S. military is (right now) a wide cross-section of American society and includes everything from anarchists to closeted neo-Nazis. I met a Puerto Rican guy last week who wanted independence for Puerto Rico and he was a currently serving member of the military (I think he was in the Army Reserve but he didn't go into that much detail). He was kind of a chud though, like a Puerto Rican nationalist chud.
>>2859269>That is by designed because they are typically liberal Russians who hate what Russia is and typically move to the garden over the "barbaric" MoscovySure I guess, some are. But I've seen what Russian pop culture looks like. It's a bunch of rap music about making money. To think what Dugin says is reflective of reality is like thinking the band Death in June represents the spirit of the West, that Alain de Benoist is representative of the French, or that Moldbug actually has some grand narrative and isn't really just a nihilistic shitposter. Maybe some believe in it, but I'm not really sure how many Russians are all that ideological. The elites are (like here) mostly deeply amoral people who are mostly out to enrich themselves (most of those people are very rich!), but maybe they want to larp about imperial grandeur in the process, like how some people want to own a Premier League team. Otherwise it's pretty incoherent and delusional and they themselves are one of the reasons Russia can't be a more functional and competent place (i.e. like how Marxists say there is an inherent contradiction between ideas and the political economy they represent, heh).
Also have you read Galkovsky? He thinks Russia has been ruled by Britain since the Russian Revolution and that the Middle Ages weren't real. Really important Russian nationalist philosopher.
>>2859244>meanwhile "conservative" dems like Collin Allred can't even win primariesCollin Allred is a useless fraud but he won his primary this year in a House seat. It's in a district the Republicans gerrymandered though.
>>2859363>The reality is that if the red army reinforced the global communist movement during the 1920s through the 1930s there would have never been a Hitler or ww2>reinforcedWhat does this even mean. Do you remember what happened in Poland? Also keep in mind that Russia just had WWI and the Russian Civil War. You are Basically asking for a suicide mission against a public increasingly being against the Bolsheviks
>Capitalism was at its absolute weakest during the lead up to the great depression. You are forgetting that at the same time national Syndicalists were beginning to form fascism. Capitalism was at its weakest but the revolution in Russia and the countless wars before and after left it weakened as well. It was the capitalists who gave the USSR breathing room while they prepared to go round 2 with their intervention that failed because they too were weakened from WWI
>>2859353Uh huh, so now the goalposts have moved from "American culture is explicitly fascist" to "mainstream American culture is reactionary". As if the mainstream culture in any bourgeois society isn't reactionary by definition.
>>2859360>>2859357To be frank I think Stalinโs policy was that of survival of the USSR, which in his position was probably the best thing he could do. I think where his policy struggled in the international arena was that states canโt really act in a matter that is 100% in coherence with their stated ideology, if anything ideology bends to states rather than the reverseโand with the USSR being the head of the global communist movement (which I think was gonna be the natural outcome in any world where Germany didnโt go communist) then you had more distinctly ideological formations having to contort themselves to deal with the contradictions of geopolitics.
>>2859363As another anon mentioned: Poland. I think youโre really underestimating how willing the public would be to defend their country from the perceived threat of foreign invasion.
>>2859359A thirdworldist sees class struggle in a "rich" country and they start puking venom.
>>2859376KKKlaSS SStruggle
Late to the "American Revolution was actually not progressive cause moralism" debate?
>>2859368>by communism and socialism they mean national socialism sweatyโฆThe funniest thing was seeing groypers seeing the rising popularity of socialism and concluding that zoomers love national socialism. But seeing the rising poll of communism is making them cope at the reality
>>2859372>>2859375Poland? The country Stalin ended up invading anyways? Look maybe I'm wrong and its easy to criticize from my armchair. Not going to like Stalin though, not because he was "authoritarian" but because he failed objectively. I won't criticize the ussr as a whole but the leadership was lacking IMO.
>>2859384>Poland? The country Stalin ended up invading anywaysBecause of the same desperate deal you are demonizing. You really are not understanding how bad the situation was and also saying he failed objectively is ironic enough objectively wrong. They ended up winning the conflict
>>2859359You can really see the class collaboration on display in American politics. The socdem (DSA) left, having no internationalist communist rival power or domestic competition from the left, see these issues of imperialism as political capital for them to spend on concessions. There is not even the pretense of aiming at any kind of socialism to replace capitalism. They can say anything they want, but do less than nothing. They actually collaborate with the DNC, and are functionally a PR firm.
US socdems see a demand for, say, antizionism and they think
>What will the elite give me to stop pushing this issue?Replace anti-zionism with anti-imperialism or any of the so called "foreign policy" which , in turn conditions "domestic" policy. This means that however paltry reforms or just gibs that the socdem gets for their leftoid cattle, comes directly at the expense of exploitation abroad which sponsors it.
The socdem vision, no the
WORLD HEGEMON SOCDEM (DSA) path to socialism is one where reforms eventually lead to moving *most* of the exploitation abroad and USians get a welfare state, instead of savage capitalism.
They are indeed social fascists.
Here is an example. When the DSA says they want a "free Palestine" what they actually
DO is this shit:
They collaborate with Sanderite Zionists to tell their leftoid cattle that passing this law will "move the needle" and, quite literally, "block the bombs". when really they are just sponsoring Zionism and running interference for the current genocide in Gaza. But, worry not, being on the good graces of the Dems and progressives an what not, may later provide them with concessions… at the expense of everything the US and Israel and NATO are currently doing there.
To provide for a limitation on the transfer of defense articles and defense services to Israel. AKA
BLOCK THE BOMBS ACThttps://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/3565/text>SECTION 1. Limitation on transfer of defense articles and defense services to Israel.
>(a) In general.โNotwithstanding any other provision of law, the President may not sell, transfer, or authorize a license for the export of any defense article described in subsection (b) or defense services directly related to such defense articles pursuant to any authority under the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) or the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. 2151 et seq.) to the Government of Israel, or to any agency or instrumentality of Israel, unlessโ[[The following is literally pointless as Zionism will guarantee any administration can pass such a law or bundle it to the NDAA or whatever other stuff, without any fanfare on the press, since the political will is 1000% there already.]]
>(1) a law is enacted identifying the specific purpose or purposes for which such articles or services may be used for in accordance with the general purposes authorized in section 4 of the Foreign Military Sales Act (22 U.S.C. 2754); and[[OH BOY, GET READY]]>(2) the Government of Israel has given written assurances satisfactory to the President that such articles and services will be usedโ
>(A) for the specific purposes identified in such law; and
>(B) consistent with the goals and principles described in the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.) and the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 U.S.C. 2151 et seq.), including pursuant to section 620M(c) of such Act (22 U.S.C. 2378d(c)), and in accordance with international humanitarian law, international human rights law, and relevant bilateral agreements.And this only limits a
few very specific types of armaments, such as they can be easily routed through any other NATO member instead of directly given by the USA. As it currently is the case with about half of Israel weapons and much of it's other forms of support.
>inb4 >"Uh so they are at least trying to Push Hitler Left from inside the NSDAP what are you doing HUH?!"I'm laughing at them, that's what. Because ultimately, the way I see it, they are betting on the losing horse of this cold war anyway. So the fools are at best lobbying to be devoured last, by the monsters they cavort with.
>>2859388Wakeup babe new schizo cope just dropped
>>2859388Good, I prefer social fascism to every existing alternative since communism doesnโt and canโt exist right now since the surpluses and productive forces donโt exist for it
>>2859388This is just you making shit up to go along with your preexisting biases. We're just supposed to take it as a fact that the DSA are fascist imperialists because they're not promising to impoverish all Americans as penance to the third world, and that's just the facts because you said so. Comparing the DSA to the Nazis is completely absurd and shows you're not a serious person in the slightest
If fascism provides a better and more stable quality of life I will take it over the non existing alternatives you scream at me over in moralist religious terms
>>2859397It's also not at all clear what this bill he's talking about has to do with DSA. From what I can tell it's sponsor is just a random Democrat with no affiliation to them.
au revoir!
>>2859330>Like look at the actual current circumstances instead of projecting the 1920s onto the 2020s.DSA darling Bernie Sanders gave new life to the term "social-fascist" with his zionism, blame him
>>2859402A combination of guilt by association with six degrees of Kevin Bacon ass logic. Six degrees of social fascism, we'll call it. I saw this anon objecting to Kiros in another thread effectively because she works with a campaign manager that also worked for someone who worked for ARCH ZIONIST Bernie Sanders at one point, meaning that she's also a Zionist. It's all ridiculous and just meant to shut down discussion
If social fascism is more appealing to workers than your brand of โgenuineโ socialism thatโs on you, youโre a bad communicator
>>2859367Weโre already on a rapid pace as well. Sooner than we think.
>>2859366Trump is rotting the circuses? Good.
>>2859385
Balogun got his red card revoked
>>2859388You can tell he wrote this post without reading anything about the DSA. Anyone who posts shit like this either wants the DSA either to split into 12 sects or heard some twitter leftoid shit on the DSA and accepted the thesis that all of the DSA is literally heckin' Nazis guys. Both stances are anti-political and not worth engaging with, because the fact is that unless you're a LARPer having a large organization where a plurality of the socialists in your country are is actually good and can yield more productive outcomes than starting a Portland Red Guard to bomb Walmart like leftists did in the 70s.
>>2859439Why do you retards always have some psychological split in cognition when you read any criticism towards the DSA and begin defending it to the hilt
The idea of a plurality of socialists is laughable in an organisation that can't even offer to its members a coherent analysis nor political programme based oriented on a position of class
>>2859441Why is that on the organization and not you as an individual?
>>2859443>Why is it on the organization to maintain the party line and educate its membersI look forward to your tears
>>2859441>The idea of a plurality of socialists is laughable in an organisation that can't even offer to its members a coherent analysis nor political programme based oriented on a position of classSee, this is a totally valid and true criticism that I won't push back on. However "the DSA are open Nazis who love American imperialism and would kill a million Palestinian babies in exchange for one funko pop" is schizo rambling that could only be dreamed up by the clinically insane.
>>2859444Itโs not a party and thus has-no party line
>>2859452Are parties the only possible socialist organization to you?
>>2859453No, I'm sure your anarchist group has accomplished wonders
>>2859242It doesn't matter if they volunteered to be part of a colonial army. Soldiers are an crucial power block who are needed to win. Simple as.
>>2859276Your use of fascism just means "bad" instead of a label of an ideology. You are fundamentally a lib moralists who realized communism will solve problems but refuse to take practical steps to achieve it. This idea that righteously pure revolutionaries can magically win a war simply because they are good is religious in character.
>>2859455Any and all organizations can only do one thing, promote the status quo, the only thing to do is stand still and wait
>>2859457Standing still and waiting by definition supports the status quo
>>2859457Not true, some organizations form within bourgeois parties under reformist banners and delusions of self control
>>2859458Less so than action, the only thing the USSR did was give weapons porky marketing and excuses for decadant military budgets and good plated bullshit
>>2859456No heโs using the term fascism correctly, as the open terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary elements of western finance capital for the purpose of extermination of the Slavs and Han Chinese and reducing the rest of the โuntermenschโ to chattel slavery. In this regard, the only actual existing definition of fascism in practice, the DSA and American โcultureโ fits it perfectly
By doing nothing you deny capital its ability to reinvigorate itself through oppositional dialectics
>>2859461Maybe just stop being chinese and Russian, itโs not hard
>>2859461I can't even tell if this is satire anymore.
>>2859461ur literally the amerifat version of a navalny meatrider lol
>>2859464Satire doesnโt exist and has never existed, neither does sarcasm, itโs just people putting their actual views out there and winking and going โhah, kiddingโ
>>2859464I once again stand by saying that thereโs an equivalent to the โNazi barโ metaphor on the Left, and its third worldists.
>>2859337i didn't say anything about graham platner or zionism. i don't like graham platner or zionism. No I don't think we should support Abu Ghraib prison guards. I don't think the average DSA member likes platner either, nor do I think the average DSA member is a social fascist. you should be trying to pull them out of the DSA and into a revolutionary organization. the conversation was about whether americans benefit from imperialism. i said they do, but not as much as they would from revolution. I then complained about the ahistorical application of theory meant to purge the non-communist left AFTER a successful revolution to our much worse and more degenerated conditions.
>>2859464Why would it be satire? You take every opportunity to remind people you explicitly support it after all
>>2859405>>2859339you should pull rank and file people out of the DSA and into a revolutionary org. you also confuse the problems with DSA as an organization with its members. as always there is a difference between rank and file members and leadership.
>>2859388"GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DSA IS COMMIE LUNATICS WHO WANT TO DESTROY AMERICA" - evangelical boomers and gusanos
"ACTUALLY THEY'RE YOUR BEST FRIENDS AND THEY JUST WANT GIBS IN EXCHANGE FOR THE BLOOD OF REAL HUMANS" - CIA trained Large Language Models meant to stop the momentum of anything besides business as usual
whats new in the free world you stupid motherfucker you
>>2859471>Why would it be satire?Because you'd have to be retarded to believe it.
>>2859342>>2859345look at this schizo goalpost shift
we somehow went from the easily BTFO position "eugene debs is the same as bernie sanders"
to
"CPUSA has sucked since the 1950s, long after debs died"
you're a god damn robot in an AWS center meant to pollute the world and derail threads. you drank 3 water bottles to put out this absolute slop. fuck you.
>>2859485How is DSA at all different from business as usual?
>>2859493the proletariat is going to kill you. the proletariat is going to destroy your data center. the proletariat is going to destroy the imperialist war machine. the proletariat is sick of your bullshit.
>>2859493because people have already rejected the democratic party and chosen an alternative. once they find out that the alternative is weak, they will seek out a stronger and more militant alternative. but to you everyone is simply a social fascist braying for treats so there is no hope except for fedposting
>>2859461>for the purpose of extermination of the Slavs and Han Chinese and reducing the rest of the โuntermenschโ to chattel slavery.So you can easily explain how music name-dropping the luxury brands China produces while glorifying drugs that makes America less effective at war accomplishes this, right?
>>2859474The DSA isn't a party, they've adapted to american politics. Parties in the U.S are just broad coalition with caucuses who represents real ideological strains. American political parties exist to house these caucuses and form a coherent movement out of them.
>>2859164For the most part that's false flags although a few of the more establishment ones have now bent the knee to avoid being sued, usually having some dud establishment stooge appointed to do it. (e.g. "LGB Alliance" is literally based in the same building as tax dodging, climate change denying, pro-brexit, and anti-immigration orgs all obviously set up to make trouble, while Stonewall was okay but finally broke down under the full weight of establishment pressure and abandoned fighting the insane anti-trans pivot to focus on BS like LGBT veterans under the new leadership of a conically failed Scottish Labour leader who has bounced around non jobs at think tanks that don't even publish ideas..)
Actual LGBT people are about as progressive as anywhere else, particularly because they skew young and British political alignment is basically all about age and education.
>>2859503CEOs should get Caligula'd by their own Praetorians. We need to get to a situation where CEOs are afraid of their own security, and are constantly worried about getting betrayed.
>>2859011kek, gets me everytime
>>2859464it was never satire
>>2859011why doesnt fdr have a floating pipe next to his mouth?
>>2859158>im a historically illiterate pissbabyCancel me if you want, but The Great Khan made slavery of mongols illegal. The Great Khan executed and enslaved the old slave owners. The enslavement of old slave owners is revolutionary and universal of decaying slave system such as Zho rulers enslaved by new proto-feudal Qin rulers during dissolution of China's late-stage slavery Zhou 3x3 well field system. The Great Khan was proto-Communist and proto-dialectical materialist. The Great Khan foresaw decay of slave system, freed the slaves, and crushed old slave owners.
>>2859491Eugene debs was a fascist racist who saw black people as unthinking apes, not workers, nevermind the apish euroamerikans today, like the intellextually bankrupt sacred cow cpusanon. He even says he blushes at the thought of his crimes against humanity.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1903/031100-debs-negroandclassstruggle.pdf>For myself, my heart goes to the negro and I make no apology to any white man for it. In fact, when I see the poor, brutalized, outraged black victim, I feel a burning sense of guilt for his intellectual poverty and moral debasement that makes me blush for the unspeakable crimes committed by my own race.Eugene debs was in prison, begging Lenin by telegram to not execute fascist "socialists" like him. The irony
>>2859164>they are firmly in the anti immigration camp Probably because many of the immigrants are conservative Muslims and rightwing eastern Euros.
>>2859521>slave system such as Zho rulers enslaved by new proto-feudal Qin rulers That was over a 1000 years before Khan. China was never big on slavery.
>>2859524He abolished the slavery of his fellow Mongols. Other people were fair game tho.
>>2859524Study Yakka code and Jami' al-tawarikh, not wikipedia. Once The Great Khan unified the steppe in 1206, all Mongols tribes ceased enslaving and killimg each other because The Great Khan forbade self-raiding, abolishing enlavement of mongol masses.
>>2859528Thatโs very literally a pro black statement, I donโt know how you can read it as white supremacist
>>2859528make your bait less obvious
>>2859532but the mongol empire still enslaved, raped, and plundered its enemies… you are just describing the process by which Mongols came to see themselves as Mongols, and everyone else as an outgroup not an abstract abolition of slavery
>Americans' Social Security benefits will have to be cut by roughly a quarter in six years due to depleted funds, according to a June 9 report from the Social Security Board of Trustees. That's months sooner than the group had estimated in 2025. Link:
https://to.pbs.org/4f39DL0you will work until you die, and you will be happy.
>>2859521>>2859532it actually is haz lol
>>2859540>rent free lolyou're so mentally ill and retarded lol!
>>2859191ACP should lean way harder into a knife
>>2859601DSA and ACP succeeding is good
>>2859534They see it as Debs being a white man's burden. You can't win over people like that
>>2859423Making the prediction that 2028 will be similar to 1824 or 1856.
>>2859461Third-worldists have always been self-hating westerners, feds, or misanthopes dressing their rhetoric in "leftish" sounding language.
Stop being spooked.
>>2859390the kids are alright
>>2859390What does the missing ten percent of millennials prefer?
CapCom?
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