๐ฝ UNITED STATES POLITICS ๐ฆ
>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkkaโข
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https://www.hueylong.com/programs/share-our-wealth/huey-longs-share-our-wealth-speechPrevious Thread:
>>2874250 Trump ally floats Republican pitch for sun-blocking technologieshttps://www.eenews.net/articles/trump-ally-floats-republican-pitch-for-sun-blocking-technologies/He is aware of climate change, and he determined to make things worse
Reminder to have a revolution you would need elements of the military, police, and intelligence services on your side, which communists will NEVER HAVE
>>2876855It makes perfect geopolitical sense, China is the numbah won solar producer so you block out the sun over their skies
>>2876855>He is aware of climate change, and he determined to make things worseI don't know, I'm pretty sure all the climate change people support this one. Even if we cut off all carbon emissions right now they say we will need this stuff to even maintain current temperatures. Short answer is we're fucked no matter what we do.
>>2876861Climate is nothing more than an engineering problem, we patched the hole in the ozone layer
>>2876861>I'm pretty sure all the climate change people support this one.No it isn't. Geoengineering around the main problem, wich is CO2, just kicks the problem down the road and may have unintended consequences.
>>2876863I guess the same way human mortality is just an engineering problem. They keep talking about inventing the technology to make people live forever, but despite the richest people in the world sincerely wanting that technology, it never happens.
>>2876867No I'm pretty rational and I'd like living forever (until I die from external circumstances or decide to kms)
>>2876861>>2876865Doesnโt even do that. It just inverts the problems and makes them even more immediate without actually fixing any of the damage already done.
>>2876867Screw that noise I would simply fuck forever.
>>2876867>The difference is immortality isnโt actually desirable to any rational human beingThis is a skill issue. Purely a skill issue.
>>2876872You say that but Baryonic matter is going to decay eventually and then what will you do?
>>2876874>You say that, and yet most people would want to live indefinitely if they could do so healthilyThis. It's why immortality in fiction always comes with bullshit strings attached like being a vampire or pirate skeleton, or else it's complete and total immortality where you can't die even by being murdered or suicide. If you could live forever at age 21 and kill yourself at any time (but be unable to die otherwise) that would have basically no downsides.
>>2876875Beat my meat in the void
AI bubble collapse status?
>>2876876The downside is you wonโt be able to have any meaningful relationships if youโre the only immortal around
So apparently Trump officially announced his 2028 presidential bid last night, some of the media is playing it off as a "joke" but we all know better.
If it sincerely comes down to Kamala Harris vs Donald Trump again I might actually shoot myself
>>2876880Relationships can be meaningful even if they're temporary.
>>2876883Even after thousands of years and thousands of temporary relationships? I doubt it tbh
>>2876874Speaking of DuPont, the family history is pretty crazy. One of the truest American noble families.
>Pierre Samuel du Pont de Nemours was the son of a Parisian watchmaker and a member of a Burgundian Huguenot family. On his mother's side, he was a descendant of a minor noble family. In 1800, he and his sons, Victor Marie du Pont and รleuthรจre Irรฉnรฉe du Pont, migrated from France to the United States. He used the resources of their Huguenot heritage to found one of the most prominent of American families, and one of its most successful corporations, E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company, initially established by รleuthรจre Irรฉnรฉe as a gunpowder manufacturer.
>In 1802, รleuthรจre Irรฉnรฉe du Pont established a gunpowder mill on the banks of the Brandywine River near Wilmington, Delaware. The location, named Eleutherian Mills, provided all the necessities to operate the mill: a water flow sufficient to power it, available timber (mainly willow trees) that could be turned into charcoal fine enough to use for gunpowder, and close proximity to the Delaware River to allow for shipments of sulfur and saltpeter, the other ingredients used in the manufacture of gunpowder. There were also nearby stone quarries to provide needed building materials.[6]
>Over time, the Du Pont company grew into the largest black powder manufacturing firm in the world. The family remained in control of the company up to the 1960s,[7] and family trusts still own a substantial amount of the company's stock. This and other companies run by the du Pont family employed up to 10 percent of Delaware's population at its peak.[8] In the 19th century, the Du Pont family maintained their family wealth by carefully arranged marriages between cousins[9] which, at the time, was the norm for many families.https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/butlersd-warisaracket/butlersd-warisaracket-00-e.html WHO MAKES THE PROFITS? < Take our friends the du Ponts, the powder peopleโdidn't one of them testify before a Senate committee recently that their powder won the war? Or saved the world for democracy? Or something? How did they do in the war? They were a patriotic corporation. Well, the average earnings of the du Ponts for the period 1910 to 1914 were $6,000,000 a year. It wasn't much, but the du Ponts managed to get along on it. Now let's look at their average yearly profit during the war years, 1914 to 1918. Fifty-eight million dollars a year profit, we find! Nearly ten times that of normal times, and the profits of normal times were pretty good. An increase in profits of more than 950 per cent. >The family played a large part in politics during the 18th and 19th centuries and assisted in negotiations for the Treaty of Paris and the Louisiana Purchase. Both T. Coleman and Henry A. du Pont served as U.S. senators. Pierre S. du Pont, IV served as Governor of Delaware.https://ktla.com/news/du-pont-heir-convicted-of-raping-daughter-3-spared-prison/ Du Pont Heir Convicted of Raping Daughter, 3, Spared Prison <He received an eight-year prison sentence in 2009 for raping his toddler daughter, but the sentencing order signed by a Delaware judge said โdefendant will not fare wellโ in prison and the eight years were suspended.Guess who signed the plea deal with him? Beau Biden, the good son/dead Biden son.
https://whyy.org/articles/dispute-over-sentence-for-du-pont-heir-turns-political/==GOP questions Bidenโs focus in du Pont heir sentencing=
<A sentence of probation for du Pont heir Robert Richards IV on a child rape conviction has sparked a war of words between political leaders in Delaware over Attorney General Beau Bidenโs role in the case. It's a big club, and they're all raping children.
>>2876885These guys were also just as incestuous as the Hapsburgs, they literally built a hospital specifically for their inbred spawn
>>2876880>>2876882I am not, nor will I ever be, referring to magically induced immortality. I refer only to scientifically induced immortality. Itโs still a skill issue regardless though.
>>2876889Youโre not going to engineer your way out of the law of entropy
>>2876884That's why you need the suicide escape route. I suppose the appeal is less immortality as such and more about being able to go out completely on your own terms, at a time of your choosing, without the scourge of aging.
>>2876891Our current understanding of the universe not complete. Besides, thatโs not really a problem of immortality now is it?
>>2876892Then what you want isnโt immortality
>>2876891>Youโre not going to engineer your way out of the law of entropyCircling back around to the original point, now apply that to geoengineering an entire planet.
>>2876894Depends on your meaning of the term I guess. Most people refer to vampires and Tolkein elves as "immortal" even though neither are unkillable. They simply can't die of old age.
>>2876897We already changed the climate unintentionally through industrialization and brought European forests back after they were mostly cleared during feudalism, changing the climate would be a much easier feat than immortality or FTL travel.
>>2876899Just get a bank loan, itโs not hard
>>2876901Materially expensive
>>2876902So was industrialization, we did it anyway
>>2876903This is significantly more expensive
>>2876900>changing the climate would be a much easier feat than immortality or FTL travelOne of those is theoretically impossible, the other is debatable
>>2876904Expense doesnโt matter when something is a necessity.
>>2876900That climate change was an increase in entropy. Now you are talking about how to reverse that entropy of the most complex system we know of. It's much harder to decrease entropy than increase it.
Take resource extraction and accumulation for example. All worthwhile resources to extract are so because they exist in a state of low entropy. We use them and then they get put into a state of higher entropy where they become almost impossible to accumulate again. Think of how much gold or other precious metals are scattered into little pieces in landfills around the world, or how about the helium we mined which is now in the exosphere? Or how about the carbon itself? It took a long time for that entropy to be decreased to the point it became a useful fuel for us and then we increased the entropy to a point where it is almost impossible to reaccumulate it in any reasonable timeframe.
>>2876906Expenses matter a lot when you canโt afford them, and you have more immediate expenses to take care of.
>>2876909You are spouting truisms void of any class politics and you should kill yourself. Not the anon you are replying to but my god you are a piece of shit.
>>2876791unfortunately for mamdani he promised during his campaign that he would arrest netenyahu. he should have known he would not be able to do it if he wasn't at least willing to fire the nypd commissioner. as far as the maduro shit goes, i think they're just pointing out the funny irony of the situation. the contrast of him being unable to arrest a genocidal fascist and unable to stop the prosecution of a communist
>>2876910Climate change is a class issue, and the way it is handled affects class itself.
>>2876909>>2876906>>2876904I thought we are all Marxists here? Money is imaginary numbers which represent the underlying labor time. All labor time spent fighting climate change is labor time that can't be used for anything else we need to do.
>>2876914Weโre not talking about money. Itโs about actual material costs.
>>2876915>Material costsWhich is also ultimately labor time. It's not about printing money or not, it's about how much productive power of the labor force will have to be diverted to simply mitigating this issue to get back to the point we were already at.
>>2876914If we donโt fight climate change we canโt have any form of industrial society let alone socialism
why cant mamdani fire the NYPD commisioner? its a political position chosen by the mayor. he can't fire the chif of the department which is a internal position filled by an internal officer.
>>2876916>get back to the point we were already atOh thatโs not happening. Weโre past that now. Weโll have to do things a little differently now.
>>2876919Short answer is because the NYPD is a power in and unto itself and would likely coup Mamdani if he tried anything that brazen. My analysis (cope really) is that Mamdani is trying to take the long way around both by building up grassroots support with genuinely helpful policies before trying to goad the NYPD into making the first move so he doesn't come off as the aggressor
>>2876921thanks. he says eric adams appointed her and stacked the top with NYPD officers dedicated to fighting corruption lmao.
i doubt even he truly believes that. but i suspect
>>2876923this makes a lot of sense if Adams stacked the top ranks with Tisch, NYPD loyalists, pro-israel types, and they had to cut a deal.
>>2876857Any "revolution" would Neo-New Dealists and neo-Longist defeating a business coup with the help of a faction of the military,police and intelligence. There are those sympathetic to that but not so much Marxism-Leninism
Brazil cancelled the visas of US officials who planned to monitor the elections
>>2876857>and intelligence services on your side, which communists will NEVER HAVEaccording to leftypol all communist parties in the third world are CIA backed, so I dont think its imposible they eventually back one in the US
>>2876929What specifically are you referring to? Maoist groups? The Tigrayans?
>>2876927That would be roughly equivalent to the KMT revolution in 1911, maybe that provides the space needed for real communist organizing, maybe it doesnโt
>>2876941Americans get what they deserve
>>2876941>I think things progressively shift in one direction or another. I think nobody would dispute that in the opposite case would they? I do not agree with you.
>>2876952Well it has always been the case everywhere in the world. Rome wasn't built in a day.
>>2876941>I think modern communists have a very self-defeating attitudesYes
>>2876947>>2876947>>2876947>For one this notion that revolution only happens through insurrection and violent conflict I think is wrong<They think they can appeal to the bourgeoisie LOL
>I think the idea that the worse and more far-right the government is, the better the chances for this theoretical communist insurrection to happen are obviously false.Based on what?
>The more right wing the government is, the more they enable those even farther-right than them to gain power, in the same way the more left the government is, the more they enable those further left of them to gain powerPretty assumptious statement for multiple reasons., and vague. What do you even mean by โleft-wing governmentโ? Why do you assume the similarities of both the mentioned governments? Did you even account for incompetence?
>I think they key is to keep pushing every level towards the left even if the elements in power are barely left sympathetic at all and by no means want to go further left, it's better than a right leaning government.Oh, so youโre just attempting to push a pro electoralist narrative without a workerโs party.
>>2876881its time, biden 2028, the only guy who could beat trump.
>>2876929what is with the whole "communists when i dont like them are CIA/created by imperialism?", i've seen this with pol pot, shining path, hell even mao or in some cases lenin and stalin (mostly from nazis who insist wall street made the bolsheviks)
its mostly brezhnevites and dengites i see saying this though, if you are are only willing to stomach some crimes commited by communists but not others, shut up, history is on the proletariats side, own up to it.
>>2876954A specter is haunting America, the specter of the DSA. All of the old powers have risen up and suspended their rivalries to combat this specter. Democrat and Republican. Chud sons and woke daughters. Abundance liberals and malthusian ecofascists.
>>2876956I don't think it's useful to think of society as a sliding scale of how good tkings are going I the first place and the attempt to argue otherwise is absurd reductionism that only benefits people who have predetermined views on what should be done (ie. incrementalism).
There are useful and damaging developments happening along multiple axes of society, some that can be put to use, others that must be overcome. It is a matter of developing strategically, not a homogenous morass of better or worse.
>>2876958<They think they can appeal to the bourgeoisie It's not about appealing to the bourgeoisie it's about using the mechanisms that are actually at your disposal currently.
>Based on what?Based on provide me the example that says different.
>Pretty assumptious statement for multiple reasons., and vague. What do you even mean by โleft-wing governmentโ? Why do you assume the similarities of both the mentioned governments? Did you even account for incompetence?Even account for incompetence? This is part of that self-defeating attitude.
>Just let the government do whatever and implement farther right governance and eventually they'll become so incompetent they just collapse and then we just waltz into power!
>Oh, so youโre just attempting to push a pro electoralist narrative without a workerโs party.Maybe someone should organize this worker's party and do some tangible praxis instead of just waiting for the government to just collapse all of it's own accord.
Like this poster points out:
>>2876857>Reminder to have a revolution you would need elements of the military, police, and intelligence services on your side, which communists will NEVER HAVEYou can't do an insurrection without some level of buy in of the enforcement arm of the government. So you think this mass defection becomes easier the more they purge liberals and fill the ranks with the most fascistic elements? This makes the mass-defection more likely or less?
>>2876958American workers have no desire for labor unions let alone a workerโs party
>>2876970The uncomfortable TVRTHNVKE is that the worker's party will have to be built on the bones of the Democrats via the most radicalized elements of the DSA. Anything else is at best wishful thinking and is at worst actively counterproductive: CPUSA is a nonstarter, the PSL is only interested in publicity stunts, other parties are either ridiculous personality cults or insignificant cells of wannabee revolutionaries who spend most of their time fantasizing about killing people in rival left wing groups.
And that's the tea, sis
>>2876970>So you think this mass defection becomes easier the more they purge liberals and fill the ranks with the most fascistic elements? This makes the mass-defection more likely or less?potentially this creates a scenario where having mass purges of the old creates the framework for dual power systems to develop.
People are still too comfortable even with everything getting worse, itโs the old frog boiling in water meme
>>2876925It's just "soft on crime" is the number one attack that gets leveled against any left-wing politicians in the US. And it's extremely easy for the media to create a perception that the mayor is letting crime happen because in a large city shocking violent incidents will happen at some point. All you need is one stabbing incident (like the one this week) and the media can run ten hundred stories about how this is only happening because the mayor fired the police commissioner and hates the NYPD and voters will believe it.
>>2876970>It's not about appealing to the bourgeoisie it's about using the mechanisms that are actually at your disposal currentlySo appealing to the bourgeoisie, got it.
>Based on provide me the example that says differentIโm not the one making a claim
>This is part of that self-defeating attitude. As opposed to being an electoralist who has already given their consent?
>Just let the government do whatever and implement farther right governance and eventually they'll become so incompetent they just collapse and then we just waltz into power!Seems to be moving that way
>Maybe someone should organize this worker's party and do some tangible praxis instead of just waiting for the government to just collapse all of it's own accord.Cool idea. Itโs shame that you started off by telling everyone to pokemon go to the polls instead.
>Reminder to have a revolution you would need elements of the military, police, and intelligence services on your side, which communists will NEVER HAVEThat poster is both silly for saying that is a mandatory requirement for communists, and self defeatist, something you supposedly decry.
>You can't do an insurrection without some level of buy in of the enforcement arm of the government.<pls buy into the pyramid scheme, I pwomise youโโll win bigNo
>>2876971Self defeatist
>>2876981They also purposefully ignore the statistics showing that the murder rate in NYC is probably the lowest its ever been and just hope that the audience assumes it's a crime infested socialist hellhole where white people are being lynched in the streets and they'll believe it because we live in a post-truth society where what people want to believe takes precedence over reality
You guys would be in Nazi Germany as communists are getting rounded up and put into concentration camps going:
>Don't you see how this is good for us!
>>2876986Iโm not voting
>>2876986 me
I'm thinking y'alls entire theory boils down to:
>The more victimized and antagonized you are the more street cred you have which means the more likelihood of people joining your movement so the same can happen to them!10,00 autism score 12D chess move.
>>2876987Yeah and you won't build the barricades or dig the trenches either.
>>2876990What is the strategic importance of building a barricade or a trench?
>>2876988An essential tenant of Schizo Maximalism is that the first world in general and Americans in particular are all equally guilty of centuries of crimes, from the wealthiest politician to an immigrant baby, and they all need to collectively suffer an arbitrary amount which will somehow restore the imperial periphery. Anything less than total agreement with this is labeled as fascism
>>2876991Maybe you should study up on warfare doctrines for those answers since you are planning to defeat the US armed forces in a civil war
>>2876983> Self defeatistItโs literally true, American workers see becoming petit bourgeois through gambling, labor aristocratic jobs, and financial speculation as far easier and more worthwhile than fighting for socialism. Any sort of solidarity outside internet comments and the occasional donation have been entirely bred and engineered out of the populace, they donโt see any point in personal sacrifice in the present for a gain in the future, this is also why birthrates and military recruitment are down below replacement levels.
>>2876993You proposed barricades and trenches, and I asked why.
>>2876994Boy howdy I love posting vibes based "analysis" on why revolution is impossible and presenting it as some scientific fact to…uh…own the libs?
>>2876995I already gave you an answer, because you will need to do those and much more to win your hypothetical civil war. The main point is you will certainly never be capable of expending that much effort so who are you kidding about your "strategy" of winning a civil war.
>>2876996There is a world beyond America, America is only 4% of the worldโs population, theyโre not important
("America doesn't matter" he says, repeatedly, in the America thread every day) >>2876996Explain why else union participation is below 10% and why โsocialismโ is only popular among the downwardly mobile petit bourgeois and PMC
>>2876997>because you will need to do thoseWhy
>>2877000Because those and much more are needed to win the civil war.
>>2877001>Because those and much more are needed to win the civil warWhy
>>2877002Because the enemy is going to shoot back at you goober.
>>2877003Plenty of concrete and car engines
>>2877001A civil war you think 65 year old suburbanites will fight and survive LOL
>>2877010The US military is not lacking able-bodied personnel. How many guys do you have?
>>2877011They literally fail to meet recruitment goals every single year since GWOT was exposed as fraud.
>>2877011Also civil war is not happening and never will happen, itโs literally never happened in any first world country
(USER WAS ALREADY BANNED) >>2877012But how many guys do you have and what is your estimate of how far their levels would have to fall to make a civil war winnable?
>>2877013Ok, then what are we even disagreeing on?
>>2877009I think his brain is melting.
Heโs sounds demented, more than the usual.
>>2877012And on their recruitment problems:
>Military personnel and compensation account for about 23% of the Department of Defense (DoD) budget, or roughly 3% of the total U.S. federal budget.If they doubled the salaries they could probably more than double their recruitment numbers. They have the money.
>>2877014>>2877016You're arguing with a known troll who's only character trait is ban evading over and over again to promote doomerist one liners in this thread
>>2877009it's weird the way he memorizes the names of literally-whos in media so he can rattle them off rapidfire while shitting on them
>>2877010Why are we pretending that you don't only need 5% of the population and the disaffected youth to pretty much have a civil war.
>>2877009I presume he was not the one wrote these jokes so it's not surprising he is completely wooden. It really is increasingly pathetic for the truly die-hard followers, because he was genuinely funny and charismatic at one point. And the difference is more and more obvious, I mean he really is decrepit nowadays.
shit ain't bad enough yet. usa needs another 50 years
>>2877041>half a centuryAt the pace things are going, it is looking like a half a decade max
>>2877042nope. you need widespread starvation. discontent over declining quality of life is not enough. life can get much much worse still
>>2877044Yeah well life could also be a whole lot better too
>>2877013>Also civil war is not happening and never will happen, itโs literally never happened in any first world country??????????????????????? now you've got me curious if this is actually true. obviously the US civil war doesn't count because the USA was still semi-agrarian and used slave labor back then… but then you have stuff like the troubles in ireland which are civil conflicts in a first world country but not necessarily a full scale civil war…. then you have stuff like the breakup of yugoslavia, but yugoslavia was neither "first world" in the cold war sense of the world or "first world" in the developmental sense of the word…. how about the Ukrainian civil war?
>>2877017I'm trying and been trying to turn the discussion here to a more productive avenue. I guess the reason I say discussion instead of writing long articles and treatises and manifestos is I'm not claiming to have all the answers. I'd like some intelligent input but it seems most here just want to turn everything into name calling and screaming match where nobody can articulate what they are even advocating for. I was just thinking for a good bit of what to say because I already know from years of experience how these conversations always devolve so I think it will be best for me to elaborate on my observations and idea at as little bit at a time so they can actually be responded to individually and not just turn into the same stupid copypasta braindead back and forth screaming match that I've seen 100s or 1000s of times before.
I think the main problems facing the left as I've seen them are: Moralism, Pessimism, Cynicism, and Fatalism which comes in both varieties Pessimistic-Fatalism and Optimistic-Fatalism.
Now how do we define the left in the most grandest and inclusive terms assuming that the people who comprise the left are acting in good faith and working towards the same goals. I would say that in the simplest terms we all want a "dictatorship of the proletariat" where the proletariat will use it's "political supremacy" to "wrest by degrees" all power from the bourgeoisie and create a classless society. Now assuming we aren't arguing on those basic goals the only thing left(no pun intended) is discussing the best strategies to achieve that basic goal of the DoTP. This strategy has many hypothetical forms and some may be better than others in certain places and times and it is also debatable if the DoTP has ever been established anywhere ever. But that doesn't even matter, the only question that faces us is what is the best actionable strategy to achieve that in the country and time we live in. Fatalism is not a strategy. It's not worth discussing because if you believe that doing nothing will eventually lead you to your goal than doing something can't possibly keep you from it either so it's not worth mentioning advocating for doing nothing as a strategy.
>pic unrelated, I just know you are all very visually minded people so some kind of picture must be included to get your attention so I'm picking one at almost random. >>2877045yes but that is not as strong a motivator
>>2877044There was no mass starvation during the Cuban Revolution and it still happened. Declining conditions from a previous point and unaffordability is enough
>>2877048Depends who you ask and how you're looking at it. I can say that for most Americans, even those that are relatively well off, they look at the current political establishment and state of the world and dont see a future. People are apathetic and checked out because they see the end approaching but to actually acknowledge it without presenting a solution would drive them mad so they distract themselves with trivial pursuits for leisure as the world crumbles around them. Most people have the sense that things are bleak and could be a lot better, and that's something we should capitalize on
>>2877049usanian living conditions are nowhere near that of the cuban working class before the cuban revolution. usanians have so much more to lose still. even now they live in relative luxury
>>2877055Itโs better, but we should always strive for improvement
>>2877055Socialism should be when we get even more hentai.
>>2877052why do other countries hate us? we did nothing wrong! we just brought them freedom n shit
>>2877041the earth doesnt have that
>CLIMATE DOOMERreality consistently outpaces the climate scientist's most pessimistic models
>>2877055increasingly common mamdani W
>>2877054Living conditions alone isn't what causes revolution. Declining conditions can trigger things especially when it happens rapidly and there is no reformist to wall it such as what happened during the Great Depression. Usians were living large in the 20s for it to flip in a few short years where many Usians started becoming socialists and leaning towards revolution
>>2877073Maybe the fascists should've won. From a world-historic position maybe this is the progressive position. Maybe the reformists just let capitalism live longer for no reason and cumulatively lead to more suffering. Maybe.
>>2877069climate change is good because it destabilizes capitalism
>but le planet will be destroyedearth existed before humans and will continue existing long after humans
>>2877074>Maybe the fascists should've won. Well that's like you opinion man. I have my own personal reasons for not wanting the fascists to win, but you do you.
>>2877075the environment (as it has currently existed) predates capitalism by thousands of years
you are unironically giving capitalism too much power
or more likely you are holding onto a position from your "old" reactionary self for dear life while pretending it's a leftist position
>>2877073> if not for the reformists, the fucking fascists would've wonfalse nuke>>2877074<Maybe the fascists should've won. From a world-historic position maybe this is the progressive position.false nukefed 2 fed communication
>>2877078>you are unironically giving capitalism too much powerwhat does this even mean? capitalism is responsible for climate change
>>2877073Where did I desire that? I believe you are more likely to see New Deal 2.0 than violent revolution or the fascist takeover
unless socdem is fash to you >>2877079Care to offer a counter-argument outside of severely dated meme phrases?
PROLETARIAN DICTATORSHIP NOW
>>2877081>Where did I desire thatWhere did anyone say you desired that?
>>2877084See:
>>2877082>Care to offer a counter-argument outside of severely dated meme phrases? >>2877087not the same anon. here's your "counter argument" that you didn't really deserve
>>2877088 >>2877073Look up the International Unemployment Day by the CPUSA in the 1930s having 50,000 people at the rally which dwarfs the Nazi garden march. You overestimate how likely a fascist takeover was, if the reformist failed fascist would not have been next which is why the New Deal happened in the first place which ironically had some inspiration from แดuแดlossnW
>>2877088> the red army defeated fascism, not "reformists"Off the top what does that have to do what was discussed about the fascist movement in America. How does the red army relate to it?
>>2877091because fascism was an international movement and it was not defeated by reformists. are you stupid? As for America it was never defeated. It died down but continued to fester for decades, which is why this country is so shit today. Nobody in the business plot even got punished, and the grandson of one of the guys involved eventually became president and started the GWOT.
I fucking want to vomit every time I heard your theory about how you guys would've won a violent insurrection if not for those meddling kids and their pup named concessions from bourgeoisie.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1873/01/indifferentism.htm
> โIf in the political struggle against the bourgeois state the workers succeed only in extracting concessions, then they are guilty of compromise; and this is contrary to eternal principles. All peaceful movements, such as those in which English and American workers have the bad habit of engaging, are therefore to be despised. Workers must not struggle to establish a legal limit to the working day, because this is to compromise with the masters, who can then only exploit them for ten or twelve hours, instead of fourteen or sixteen. They must not even exert themselves in order legally to prohibit the employment in factories of children under the age of ten, because by such means they do not bring to an end the exploitation of children over ten: they thus commit a new compromise, which stains the purity of the eternal principles.
< It cannot be denied that if the apostles of political indifferentism were to express themselves with such clarity, the working class would make short shrift of them and would resent being insulted by these doctrinaire bourgeois and displaced gentlemen, who are so stupid or so naive as to attempt to deny to the working class any real means of struggle. For all arms with which to fight must be drawn from society as it is and the fatal conditions of this struggle have the misfortune of not being easily adapted to the idealistic fantasies which these doctors in social science have exalted as divinities, under the names of Freedom, Autonomy, Anarchy. However the working-class movement is today so powerful that these philanthropic sectarians dare not repeat for the economic struggle those great truths which they used incessantly to proclaim on the subject of the political struggle. They are simply too cowardly to apply them any longer to strikes, combinations, single-craft unions, laws on the labour of women and children, on the limitation of the working day etc., etc. >>2877093Let's put it more directly. If these concessions really had the power to stop your insurrection, how do you honestly think you would've won an armed struggle if things simply got worse?
>>2877094A kind of revolutionary organization would have to be a parallel to a state, so say, if this was a deeply rooted and far branching movement I expected there is a red army, there is a kind of central political body and central executive body, there are cooperation chains between base syndicates instead of value and exploitation chains supplying the political body, there's a internal communication network and some kind of outside communication body with the rest of the world. This alone can withstand a rebellion.
>>2877095We're not talking about baseless hypotheticals. The premise as I understand it is if no concessions were extracted from the government, a communist force capable of beating all other armed powers in the country whether they be liberal or fascist would've prevailed. Defend this point.
>>2877091It was growing in popularity at the time and was increasingly becoming a more powerful force which is also why FDR had pinks in his administration because of how prevalent it had become. Blair Mountain was recent memory and it was getting to become a more popular position which is why the New Deal took the momentum the country was heading to
>>2877098So you are really arguing if no concessions were offered, these same people who were defeated and pacified by small concessions would've carried all the way through to winning a civil war?
>>2877100Yes because those concessions were given because of a real movement towards more revolutionary politics.
>>2877073>And if not for the reformists, the fucking fascists would've wonfascism did win and it was thanks to the reformists
>>2877094A more accurate way to put is that if concessions can stop an insurrection, then insurrection was never a possibility in the first place.
>>2877100And I guess the next logical question is how can we stop the government from offering concessions since it is "the real movement's" kryptonite. Can't they always pull that trump card out of their pocket?
>>2877100so you think concessions were made because they would have won easily regardless? do you people even bother to activate a single neuron before you post your garbage?
>>2877107>so you think concessions were made because they would have won easily regardless? do you people even bother to activate a single neuron before you post your garbage?That is kind of the original point I was making neuron appreciator.
>>2877111We're way past that dog. I'm trying to just make my opponents actually take an actual view so it can be discussed.
>>2877112
Yupp all CAPS screaming through text surely helps your argument(whatever it actually is.)
>>2877091>asks for counter arguments>gets several interrelated counter arguments>only reads one of them>ignores the rest>shifts the goalpost againi hate u
>>2877115Your first point completely invalidates the rest if you won't defend it. If I started the list with,
- Jesus comes back and smites all the sinners
There is no point to move on to point 2
>>2877114you not only do not understand what you read, you do not even know what you yourself wrote two posts earlier. clown.
>>2877117What did I read? I can't read it again because it's deleted now.
>>2877116it doesn't and you suck
>>2877070Communism should be seen as something not actively antagonistic towards most of the population, yes. None of that causes it to remove its "revolutionary edge", unless you think that communism is just when you hoot and holler about total AmeriKKKan death and bitch about "treats". At which point you care more about the aesthetics than actual results
>>2877106That's the funny thing about all this. What Mamdani is doing is pretty similar to what "Actual Existing Socialism" does and is hailed by leftists as revolutionary: implement popular policies that benefit a lot of people. Obviously nothing in that is inherently socialist, and I'm not saying Mamdani is a socialist either, but it really says a lot that basic populism and promoting the idea that Better Things Are Possible is some kind of radical communist position in the US of A
>>2877047You guys should read this post. None of you will ever reply to it unless I point it out again, and even then it is still debatable. I wrote it in the most untriggering way possible. Because it contains no triggers with which to nitpick it will be simply ignored. That is what every "discussion" comes down to, just scanning the text, looking for psychological PTSD triggers and then going off on a tangent from those. If someone writes the most diplomatic text possible asking for intellectual input, it will simply be ignored. You are all just highly emotional beings not capable of non-emotional, rational discussion.
>>2877126completely schizophrenic takeaway
>>2877106Bernie honored Daniel Ortega and has not condemned him yet
>>2877127>>2877047fwiw I read your post fully and I largely agree with you, I just didn't have anything to add so I didn't say anything
>>2877126the joke is that "social fascism" theory was abandoned for "popular front" when material conditions demanded it but retards 100 years later pretend "social fascism" theory is still relevant as if this were weimar germany, as if AOC has already killed Iron Felix or some shit
>>2877124>really says a lot that basic populism and promoting the idea that Better Things Are Possible is some kind of radical communist position in the US of AThat is pretty much Huey Long and the Share the Wealth program. That is seen as crazed communism
>>2877131I know that is the case too(but I try to keep myself from assooming such things for fear of ego) but still, like I said I'm looking for intelligent input. C'mon guys, give me intelligent input.
>>2877047>Moralism, Pessimism, Cynicism, and Fatalismwhat's the difference between pessimism and cynicism in your view?
>Pessimistic-Fatalism and Optimistic-Fatalism.am i correct to suppose that you correlate optimistic fatalism with moralism in a similar manner to the more direct correlation of pessimism to fatalism? how does cynicism relate to fatalism?
>Now how do we define the left in the most grandest and inclusive termsthis question would actually be triggering for the one guy who insists against using the term 'left' because in his view it denotes 'left of capital' (that is, if he had bothered to read it). i think the broad historical scope of what it means to be politically 'left' is defined in opposition to ruling class interests rather than being an expression of any specific working class interest. proletarian communism to me is a historically specific form of radical 'leftism'.
>assuming that the people who comprise the left are acting in good faith and working towards the same goals.>assuming we aren't arguing on those basic goalsthese two assumptions are practically unjustified in our cultural climate. you simply cannot assume good faith from people, and worse you cannot even assume that people coming at it in good faith will be able to agree on basic goals. that's why most discussion is unproductive. we have yet to settle on a common viewpoint and vocabulary even within our own narrow niche. i don't know what the solution to this problem is.
>>2877139First off, let me say thank you for the feigned-ignorant sophistic arguments I knew you were always capable of /leftypol/. Let's get down to it.
>what's the difference between pessimism and cynicism in your view?These are defined terms you can look up in a dictionary. Let's do that for you.
>Pessimism is a mental attitude that expects the worst outcome, focuses on the bad parts of a situation, and believes that pain and evil outweigh happiness in life.
>Cynicism is an attitude of general distrust, the belief that people act only out of selfishness, and a rejection of social normsI will get to the rest but I would like to confront you one point at a time so you don't have the option of ignoring any in favor of just seizing on one or the other.
>we have yet to settle on a common viewpoint and vocabulary even within our own narrow niche.
No, most of the vocabulary there, you just don't bother to learn it. Hence we discuss about "elites" instead of the ruling class or bourgeoisie and "masses" instead of proletarians or working class.
What is to be done? Fucking educate them about communism they are not retarded children. Everyone wants the party and the movement no one actually wants to talk to workers about proletarian dictatorship. Why the fuck not?
Go ahead, try to fucking contradict me. Name me one (1) 'communist' party in the west that talks about proletarian dictatorship. It's a big and scary word.
>>2877055Its pretty funny how doomer leftypol is nowadays when back in the day socialism was considered on par or even worst than Nazism. Socialism is now mainstream and the rights crying about communism falls on deaf ears. Socialist and communists parties continue to grow and the public continues to radicalize towards the left.
Even when one of the main issues in America is the funding and backing of protocols of zion the state the American people are opting for the lefts solution and rightly see zionist and rightiods as one in the same. The right is desperately trying to label the left as some foreign entity while they openly commit treason on the daily to prop up a hostile foreign government.
>>2877139My boy, you wrote a lot more and I am prepared to get to it but like I said:
>I will get to the rest but I would like to confront you one point at a time so you don't have the option of ignoring any in favor of just seizing on one or the other. >>2877132>as if AOC has already killed Iron Felix or some shityou are right, she has only collaborated with the genocide of palestinians, no biggie, idk why ultras are so hysterical
>>2877054>the american working class lives in luxurysee video
Topics
0:00 The myth that Americans are wealthy
1:15 Average wealth vs median wealth
3:50 Data on US median wealth
6:42 Wealth inequality (Gini coefficient)
9:31 Poverty and homelessness
10:19 USA vs Europe
12:02 Wealth concentration of US elites
13:28 Distribution of growth in income
15:01 GDP per capita is misleading
21:18 US GDP by sector
23:13 Imputed rent and GDP
25:05 Life expectancy, mortality, etc.
27:10 US healthcare system
28:40 US health system vs OECD
32:58 Ridiculous "Europoor" myth
33:32 Trump cuts taxes on rich
34:27 Trump family corruption
36:20 Insider trading
36:56 Myth of American dream
38:18 Outro
>>2877158hahahahahaha you fucking slimy shifty weasel. why did you omit the word before luxury? you shameless roach
>>2877157yes and the average british worker collaborated in everything the british empire did, but Das Kapital wasn't 33 chapters of Marx seething about British workers. No it was 33 chapters of him describing the oppression of the working class in the most imperialist country on earth with painstaking emprical data to back him. up. The same thing Ben Norton does in the video attached to this post:
>>2877160relative luxury doesn't matter. a prole in South Africa lives better than a bronze age king. Watch the video or don't. Ben Norton isn't a guy who goes easy on US imperialism.
>>2877160i also added a word. you said "usanians" rather than mentioning the working class because your entire position relies on collapsing class and upholding nation
>>2877160americans (without class distinction) live in relative (rather than absolute) luxury. that is actually a pretty defensible position. too bad it relies on ignoring class.
>>2877167>>2877168so your position is that the USA working class lives in as bad conditions as the average working class around the world? think about it now. is that really the point you want to make.
>>2877168I think even more than quantifying the exploiter classes or exploited classes, all that matter is only the exploiter classes matter anything when it comes terms of actual laws in the practiced reality.
>>2877170You know, like, all of us in the exploited classes could vote:
>why don't we get a pay raise?That's the whole idea of the thing.
>>2877169>so your position is that the USA working class lives in as bad conditions as the average working class around the world? Thank you for asking.
No.>think about it now. is that really the point you want to make.it is not the point I wanted to make nor it is the point I made. Next question.
>>2877163TWists are just self-loathing revenge fetishists, they're not seeking a better world for everyone. I would call them glowies considering how eager they are to advance capitalist zero-sum narratives, but that would be giving them too much credit.
Contrary to how some think, defense of the US working class from the US ruling class does not constitute a denial of any of the following truths:
- that the US commits atrocities
- that the US is imperialist
- that some of the imperialist loot gets redistributed through social programs
- that imperialism benefits Americans in the short term
- that the American working class should be more disciplined and militant
Nor does it constitute a denial that:
- there is an American working class
- that class struggle is possible in a settler-colonial nation (like the US, Israel, or any of the South American nations)
- that the workers of the world can and must unite across nations and "worlds" to defeat imperialism
- that the long term destructive effects of imperialism far far outweigh the short term "benefits" that the imperial core working class may experience from "social fascism"
>>2877177> that the US commits atrocities> that the US is imperialistKinda? But I guess you underestimate how stupid the average American is. Even these people on this board will probably defend their favorite retarded celebrity.
As far as atrocities I have heard two first hand accounts of atrocidads by former soldiers first hand.
>>2877181Like anyways, how I feel as a millenial is that whole War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan war shit wasn't a joke dude. Like some people need to fucking die. I'm not fucking playing around. I'm kinda steadfast in this position.
>>2877181> But I guess you underestimate how stupid the average American is.How did that post underestimate stupidity? It made no claims one way nor another about stupidity. If you want my honest opinion Americans are on average very stupid and susceptible to false consciousness, class collaboration, etc. That is part of the problem that needs to be solved.
>>2877177truke of the decade
>>2877183>Like anyways, how I feel as a millenial is that whole War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan war shit wasn't a joke dude. Like some people need to fucking die."As a millenial" the war on terror is how I first became disgusted with the US government. Abu Ghraib especially left me disgusted. We used 9/11 as an excuse to destroy 7 nations that had nothing to do with it.
the 9/11 hijackers were overwhelmingly Saudi Arabian, with a couple from Egypt, Lebanon, and UAE… but we invaded and/or bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen… nations that had nothing to do with it… and some of the hijackers had mossad connections that went completely unscrutinized at the time… and Osama Bin Laden had connections with US politicians and the CIA. So to me the war "on" terror was a war
of terror
>>2877184You replied to me and I was like double checking like I didn't write that. Yes you are spitting straight facts. Yes Americans are fucking retarded but they're not bad people on average.
>>2877186Yes, the same I determined myself to be the US government at a certain point in Obama's terms, but still the Trump decade has been funny, but at the same time I wish there could be something better. Maybe taking all the corruption and interests groups out of government? Is it really too much to ask for? Overturning these faggot Republicans Citizens United. If it is really too much because such and such faggot holds some symbolic position we can also kill these people? If the future depends on it? You'd rather die in a ditch begging the sky for the drone to not play around and slowly execute you vs. a time where you could realistically assassinate any person you want?
>>2877190Yes true and I am against these people almost as completely. Yes I wish every single politician in DC to be dispossessed. Of course, none of them are good.
>>2877191important correction lmao
Ok, let's examine how the population of the "working-class" could be compelled to take up arms. I think yes, this is such a country where hypothetically you could convince the average shmo to pick up his AR-15, but for what? It has so far, thus been for pro-bono defense of the government. There is no such proof that you will out do the government with your AR-15s or whatever except for maybe a few instances, Dorner and Dallas Sniper, the two all-time cop-killers. Otherwise I guess just killing random members of the public like Sleepy Eyes Paddock. Or maybe Luigi deserves the top spot for eliminating the highest networth target.
>>2877143>let me say thank you for the feigned-ignorant sophistic argumentsi was legitimately asking. this is a part of the broader problem that you can't even ask a simple question without it being interpreted as an attack.
>These are defined terms you can look up in a dictionary. yeah, i know. i was not asking you for dictionary definitions, i was asking you to elaborate on the specific ways you are employing these terms in your analysis so as to better understand your estimation of the problems we're discussing.
>>2877144>most of the vocabulary there, you just don't bother to learn it.sure, i can agree that the language exists to discuss this stuff, but what exactly is meant by such words as 'dictatorship' and 'proletarian' are hotly contested even amongst ideological communists. that's not to suggest that any answer is as good as any other, or that there is no answer, but rather to simply observe the present state of discourse.
>Hence we discuss about "elites" instead of the ruling class or bourgeoisie and "masses" instead of proletarians or working class.the populist language of "elites" and "masses" you are talking about is the generic ahistorical rhetorical form of 'left' politics as I was describing it. i agree with you completely that we ought to instead be discussing things in terms of class, specifically bourgeois and proletarian, but that doesn't settle the objective lack of a general consensus regarding class analysis both within the broader 'left' as well as the communist movement.
>>2877203>i was legitimately asking. this is a part of the broader problem that you can't even ask a simple question without it being interpreted as an attack.>>2877203>yeah, i know. i was not asking you for dictionary definitions, i was asking you to elaborate on the specific ways you are employing these terms in your analysis so as to better understand your estimation of the problems we're discussing.Well it was as simple as looking it up in the dictionary now wasn't it?
>>2877200the people wanting revolution isn't enough. the upper classes must no longer be able to rule in the old way for revolution to take root
>>2877177It wasn't imperialism that grew the American middle class. It was the new deal and the U.S being the only industrial power that didn't get attacked in ww2. U.S imperialism has always been a black hole where all money gets sacked into. The military isnt winning any wars, isn't significantly employing people, they aren't producing new technologies or creating local manufacturing demand. You could maybe argue imperialism brought short term benefits during the late 19th and early 20th century.
I mean the U.S ruling class is stripping the copper wiring out the nation to keep the war machine going for another month on an unwinnable war thats only increasing inflation.
>>2877205Ok I agree, this is the truth, we need to grab it ahold from them wherever possible. We need to leave these people no room to live anywhere. We out number, we can make their life not possible by confronting them anywhere they appear. That's what we need to do and some are already trying it, even posters on here.
>>2877207blanquism is cringe and no amount of assassinations will accomplish anything beyond spectacle
>>2877204>Well it was as simple as looking it up in the dictionary now wasn't it?it partially clarifies the distinction between cynicism and pessimism, though i still think it's ambiguous because typically political pessimistic fatalism as i understand it is motivated precisely by political cynicism. you also left untouched my question about whether you associate optimistic fatalism with moralism. again, nothing i am saying here is meant to contest anything you said. just looking for some small clarifications so as to understand exactly what you mean.
>>2877208I don't know, nobody regrets Kirk amirite? I don't think anyone would regret seeing one of these hypothetical others getting ended.
>>2877209>it partially clarifies the distinction between cynicism and pessimism, though i still think it's ambiguous because typically political pessimistic fatalism as i understand it is motivated precisely by political cynicism. I don't know what you understand, why not source your claim. The definitions have very clear definitions in the definitions I quoted to you and you can understand the first post from that standpoint. Nuh uh you don't just get to write lot of bullshit and play retarded.
>>2877211>The definitions have very clear definitions yeah, you know what, you got it all figured out. no need for me to butt in. carry-on.
>>2877212Do you dispute that?
>>2877213no, i don't dispute that your definitions have very fine definitions in the definitions you quoted. i regret having bothered to attempt to question how you think these two terms with overlapping and imperfectly synonymous definitions relate to and distinguish from each other in your analysis.
Pessimism is when you think everything sucks. Cynicism is when you think everything sucks but you're smug about it.
>>2877215No they are not overlapping and not synonyms do you want me to ask you an LLM the difference and to explain my post on your behalf? I have not consulted one at all, I just want to know if that could help you potentially.
>>2877218Hey+google
+siri
+chatgpt
+claude
you can ask any of them, I spoke the one correct English and you can go back and forth with them until you understood it in your native language.
>>2877210there are a million kirks in reserve. vanishingly few are the americans with the gumption to pick up a rifle and do something about injustice, imagine what he could've accomplished putting that energy into true revolutionary Party work shoulder to shoulder leader the masses
>>2877221We really should kill them all, but even if we can't do that, we should make their lives unlivable anywhere they go. That's what numbers should do.
>>2877218>No they are not overlappingthere is a very clear overlap between political pessimism and political cynicism because, where politics are concerned, consistent anticipation of the worst outcome is identical to distrust of ruling political institutions and norms. that is to say, one is typically pessimism about future political outcomes because they are cynical about the political institutions in power which affect outcomes through the application of power. the two seem to me to be intimately related in a way that is worth articulating.
>>2877139>am i correct to suppose that you correlate optimistic fatalism with moralism in a similar manner to the more direct correlation of pessimism to fatalism? how does cynicism relate to fatalism?No I wouldn't conflate or correlate optimistic fatalism with moralism. I wanted to say in my original post another synonym for optimistic fatalism might be called "magical thinking" why don't you look that up. Cynicism is distinct from pessimism as already described, pessimistic thought could include cynicism, but these are two distinct concepts.
>>2877225Where is any better? Any nations are free to lead the revolution. I am to follow that true Marxist nation Marx PBUG,
>>2877226Are they? Can you tell us again which president recently got kidnapped by who
>>2877227And who is now the leader of said country who the leader got kidnapped?
>>2877227maduro was betrayed by a member of his circle who turned the air defenses off. the american military just got spanked in Hormuz so there's no excuse anymore
>>2877224>another synonym for optimistic fatalism might be called "magical thinking"the better comparison would be to wishful thinking.
>Cynicism is distinct from pessimism as already describedi never denied that they were distinct.
>pessimistic thought could include cynicism, but these are two distinct concepts.my interest is to hear you elaborate on this conditional relation between the two. what forms of political pessimism would you say do not include cynicism? i do not ask because i think it's impossible to answer, but because i can't think of an answer, and you seem to have one.
>>2877233>the better comparison would be to wishful thinking.Nah dawg I meant what I said you can go read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking >>2877235that doesn't seem obviously optimism to me is the point. what occasions this magical thinking in the way that pessimism and (sometimes) cynicism occasion pessimistic fatalism, and what is inherently fatalistic about magical thinking? would not the notion that people influence events by sheer will be at direct tension with the notion of deterministic fatalism?
>>2877234america can't even defeat a completely broke iran, the fuck is it gonna be able to do against nuclear armed india/pakistan or nationalist turkey or any of the asian countries that communist china considers in their sphere of influence? how many times does america have to pick a fight in the middle east and lose horribly before everyone realizes its not the 60s anymore
>>2877236>that doesn't seem obviously optimism to me is the point. wSure it doesn't mean only optimism but usually it starts from "wishful thinking" as you describe. Crossing your fingers wishing upon a star
>what occasions this magical thinking in the way that pessimism and (sometimes) cynicism occasion pessimistic fatalism, and what is inherently fatalistic about magical thinking? I would say that optimistic fatalism is the ultimate wishful thinking or ultimate desire/conclusion of magical thinking.
>what occasions this magical thinking in the way that pessimism and (sometimes) cynicism occasion pessimistic fatalism, and what is inherently fatalistic about magical thinking? I would say that pessimism to me usually engenders less to imagine defeat than optimism the opposite. I would say pessimism is a safer conclusion. If we were to take any hypothetical action, like
>how can I get a meal and shelter today?There are many hypothetical avenues, but none of them are given, whereas the pessimistic prediction:
>I will not get a meal and shelter todayis a guaranteed conclusion if you believe in it.
>>2877206>It wasn't imperialism that grew the American middle class.one could argue that the white landowners that comprised the majority of the non-enslaved pre-civil war us population were the predecessors to the post-20th century middle class, and the formation of this rural settler proto-middle class was done through imperial conquest, i.e. conquering the indians and the mexicans and importing black people from african and carribean colonies for slave labor..
furthermore, while the new deal reforms played an instrumental role in reviving the us economy and the formation of the industrial working class, it was the us's involvement in world war 2, destroying japanese empire with nuclear weapons and aiding the allies in defeating germany late in the war after it was clear that the germans would not win, that put the us in the position of being the sole remaining imperial power in the world with control over 50% of all global wealth and creating a global hegemony that has ruled much of the world to this day, the largest geopolitical gain in human history and an obvious example of imperialism.
the white american working class were given a tremendous share in the spoils with suburban homes and lucrative industrial jobs and public infrastructure elevating them into the middle class, along with the biggest and most expensive and elaborate white-nationalist anti-socialist propaganda effort in history to indoctrinate and secure the loyalty of the white middle-class and destroy what remained of the labor movement and the new deal reforms would be gradually rolled back over the following decades.
the new deal was basically just a hail mary to buy some time and belay the collapse of the us economy by selling treasury bonds, borrowing money from the public and going all-in on a state-controlled planned economy and hoping to god that the rapid industrial development would bring in enough revenue to offset the costs and save the country, then ww2 happened and industrial demand skyrocketed and the us became a wartime supplier of weapons and supplies to the allies, the european and soviet empires, which ended the great depression and set the precedent for the us's future war profiteering efforts and the formation of the military-industrial complex, a key component of the american imperialist hegemony.
>>2877237The US is like the British Empire in the 1950s. They haven't fully accepted the gig is up and it wasn't until the Suez that it hit like a rock
>>2877242Literally correct, Soviet Imperialism caused the sino soviet split
>>2877241one might say that they are lost in the make believe that it's not over. but it's over. done. deal. no problem. game over.
>>2877245And China is the new US and will end up being every bit as aggressive and hegemonic
>>2877244The post was saying Stalin's USSR was the Soviet Empire. Mao never saw it like that
>>2877246I guess we'll see. I wish they'll be the hegemon and deal with all these other powers so the US can become insular and isolationist.
>>2877246This is just projection and not how things will play out at all. The US pretty much just got handed a baton by the British so pretty much replaced their Anglo father with themselves on the world stage. China can't fit that let alone have the navy that made the British and later American empire work
>>2877242a 200-year-old empire doesn't suddenly cease being an empire just because they changed their flag and put red stars on their uniforms.
>>2877247The kernel for Khruschevism is embedded within leninism itself
>>2877246>China is the new US and will end up being every bit as aggressive and hegemonicnot gonna happen, india, japan and south korea will make sure of it. america giving the saudis nukes and losing hegemonic influence is forcing all three to get nukes too as the only guarantor of state security
>>2877249In 20 years youโll eat your words
>>2877246>And China is the new US and will end up being every bit as aggressive and hegemonicwhy do half of you motherfuckers refuse to open a history book
wake me when China starts engaging in a globe-spanning coup spree
>>2877252There will be a Chinese sponsored coup in Japan in less than 10 years mirroring the US coup against Arbenz
>>2877254Give it a few years, the laws of capital are the laws of gravity
>>2877255>Chinese sponsored coup in Japan pure unfiltered delusion. where are you from?
>>2877250>The USSR was le red empire with le red tsarYou do realize Soviet society completely revolutionized past a flag and uniform right? Only see this take from certain countries with an extreme hateboner for Russia and make the argument that Russia = USSR which was never the case
>>2877251>within leninism itselfSo what does that make China and Mao
>>2877259The new amerikkka
>>2877253Two decades from now, you will be wondering how come China is regional and not randomly in Norway like you predicted
A Prisoner of the Class War is Free
https://houdinimagazine.com/articles/2026-06-21-keegan-quinn-veteran-activist-jailed-florida-denied-bondKeegan Quinn. Six months in jail over a Facebook post criticizing ICE. The type of repression that's steadfastly becoming normalized in the state of Florida. But he's free. We protested. We advocated. We raised hell, and he's free. And not only is he free, but he's networked. We're networked. Because that's how it works. One of our people go in, they come out and ten of us are waiting on them. Because if we're not waiting on them, who will be? Who else will be waiting with the grill, burgers and beers ready to go? That's the grillpill in action. If we're not advocating for our people who end up locked up, who will? This is a man who was at Standing Rock, and has spent the last ten years of his life putting in the work. And when he went into the jail cell, the state thought he was going in alone. But networks form, people get in touch with each other, late night phone calls happen, articles get written, intel gets shared, letters get wrote and moved between the prison walls.
It hits different when you write an article about someone who's in jail for advocating against ICE. And their mother photocopies that article, prints it out, and mails it to them so they can read it. We are actively pushing beyond the constraints they have binded us with. The shackles they've locked around our arms and ankles. We will break their bondage and we will link arms. That's Houdinism, that's the lock picker's ethos. One of us escapes, we pull another through the hole in the wall. The state might be trying to push every legal button they can to silence us. But with each mouth covered, another three start to scream in solidarity.
>>2877256cease with the idealism
>>2877254That's what I don't get, anyone who studied history can understand why the US geopolitically has such a fortressed position with barely any resistance or rival in the Americas and can afford to go to Afghanistan or Iraq to coup a government meanwhile China at most did an invasion in Vietnam over neighbor dispute
>>2877263Youโre the idealist for assuming the intentions of a state and party can overcome material incentives
>>2877238it's our moment; you know together we're voting (for DSA)
>>2877264Imperial china did quite a lot of imperializing before the complete failure, settler colonialism, apartheid and general humanitarian catastrophe that was the Qing dynasty and takeover
The end of the earth will be a DSA president nuking China
>>2877265I mean you are already idealist by calling the Soviet Union imperialist
china wont even touch the myanmar civil war that shares a land border with them and mfers think xi is finna launch a coup in JAPAN lol
>>2877246they already are aggressive and hegemonic, see taiwan, the south china sea, the himalayan border, etc. china has always been an empire, it's the oldest living empire in the world, they've been in the imperialism game for over 2000 years, the OGs.
>>2877240>destroying japanese empire with nuclear weapons the japanese empire was already destroyed. they were just coping and seething. the nukes wasn't to get them to surrender, it was to prevent the soviets from occupying japan and creating a socialist japan.
>>2877269Was Mao an idealist?
>>2877267>Qing DynastyThe Manchu Dynasty alongside the Yuan Dynasty where wars of expansion occurred from conquest from the outside group compared to the Song and Ming where it was insular and defensive.
>>2877270Because they trade with both sides in the burmese civil war (its not myanmar thatโs a fake name to distract from Bamar chauvanism which is still what the state acts as)
>>2877272The Russians couldn't even land on Japan, their entire invasion force only existed as far as America trained them and gave them landing boats.
>>2877273Mao said Stalin's USSR was not imperialist but the argument is that it was which is delusional
>>2877274The qung were basically zionist apartheid colonial overlords over the han majority
>>2877277He called it a hitlerite dictatorship
>>2877270It is fearmongering like that 24/7 on Japanese media that Red China wants the final solution on noble Nippon. It is straight projection when you dig deep into the takes
>>2877280Khrushchev's USSR not Stalin's USSR which he was defending and praising
>>2877281An attitude that would be entirely justified given Japanese history and public attitudes, theyโre Asiaโs Israel, wholly illegitimate culture, language, government, population, e everything
>>2877276>The Russians The USSR.
>couldn't even land on JapanYes they could, and they planned to.
> their entire invasion force only existed as far as America trained them and gave them landing boats.proof?
>>2877271>they already are aggressive and hegemonic, see taiwan>taiwanThis has to be a joke right
>>2877278i am so tired of zionism, nazism, and apartheid being used as procrustean templates for every single ethnocentric bullshit that ever happened in history. reactionary politics have unique characteristics that should not be overlooked, and han ethnocentrism under the Qing was not simply "Han Zionism" lol
>>2877276They literally had plans to land and had already annihilated the Japanese army in Machuria and Korea. That was when the Japanese saw surrender to the Americans as preferable before the Soviets came from the North
>>2877287>han ethnocentrism under the Qing was not simply "Han Zionism" >han ethnocentrismDo you know what the Qing dynasty was?
>>2877287It wasnโt Han zionism idiot, it was Manchu zionism
>>2877285>The USSRNice catch and you can tell someone's position when they say Russians instead of Soviets.
>>2877290>>2877291still wasn't the same thing as zionism is my point. were the manchus bombing people in ghettos surrounded by military checkpoints?
>>2877291The people shouting about Chinese imperialism and how they will replace the US in the exact way and tell you to read history don't even know anything about Chinese history lmao
>>2877294A Han Chinese who went to the Manchu quarter without the proper hair braid and in a certain decorum was literally beheaded. It was an apartheid state
>>2877295Imagine the Taiping rebellion but if they had won and achieved the geopolitical position of amerikkkkkkkkkkka
>>2877295>>2877295>shouting about Chinese imperialism and how they will replace the US in the exact way I never argued this point at all nor would I.
>>2877296Still not the same as zionism, or nazism, or south african apartheid. each of these horrible ethnocentric things is historically unique and shouldn't be lazily compared (even if I revealed my own ignorance in saying Han supremacist instead of Manchu supremacist earlier , I stand by this more abstract point).
/USApol/
>>2877314Good, if it wasnโt us, itโd be someone worse
>>2877285You want me to go dig you up the sources? I've posted it here a couple times before. You'll probably just ignore it.
>>2877322Let's start here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Hula>Project Hula was a secret program during World War II in which the United States transferred naval vessels to the Soviet Union in anticipation of the Soviets eventually joining the war against Japan, specifically in preparation for planned Soviet invasions of southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. Based at Cold Bay in the Territory of Alaska, the project was active during the spring and summer of 1945. It was the largest and most ambitious transfer program of World War II, it included 149 ships delivered (of 180 expected, returned until 1955) and 12,000 personnel trained between 16 April and 4 September 1945 (well after the armistice of 15 August and the surrender of Japan on 2 September) and the US-handed then-Soviet ships took part in the last war operations of 5 September in Manchukuo, northern Korea, the Japanese south of Sakhalin Island, and the Kuril Islands. >>2877331Close your eyes, look really hard with all your soul at the alternate realities
>>2877325America had second thoughts after completing the manhattan project and decided it would rather not have a Soviet occupied Japan so it nuked Japan instead. none of this information contradicts that. Since the completion of the manhattan project was not 100% certain, they still armed the soviets just in case.
>>2877332souls aren't real though.
>>2877333>>2877285 their entire invasion force only existed as far as America trained them and gave them landing boats.
>proof?>>2877325It is proof of exactly what I claimed which you asked me for.
>>2877272the nuclear bomb still affected the outcome of the war and determined the entire course of post-ww2 history. the japan had lost the war but still had options and could have gotten a better deal by reaching out to the soviets, one that the soviets would have certainly taken advantage of, it would have given them total control over east asia and unrestricted access to the pacific. if this had happened, the post ww2 world would have been very different, instead of the us acheiving world domination it would have been a bipolar global order with the ussr controlling the entire eastern hemisphere and the united states controlling the western hemisphere. but then the bombs fell and japan's options were reduced to two - unconditional surrender to the us or total genocide.
the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki with nuclear weapons was the single most destructive and monumental act of terrorism in the entire history of human warfare, people in western society, especially the united states, always try to downplay the significance of this event and try to spin it as an unfortunate but necessary choice to save the world from japan (which it obviously wasn't), but it really cannot be overstated how impactful it really was, not just in terms of the death and destruction and the psychological terror inflicted on the victims, but the precedent that was set by this unparalleled show of military force and technological ruthlessness that set the stage for everything that followed, the rise of the unipolar american new world order, the most powerful and destructive global empire in the history of civilization.
the number of human beings the post-ww2 us empire has directly or indirectly destroyed is in the neighborhood of ~70 million people, equivalent to the total number of deaths caused by all of the participants of ww2. there is objectively nothing in history that is worse than the united states, as of yet. whoever takes up the mantle (probably china) has big shoes to fill.
>>2877335> their entire invasion force only existed as far as America trained them and gave them landing boats. that is a much stronger claim that you provided evidence for. You provided evidence that America armed and trained Soviets for a naval invasion of Japan. you did not provide evidence that the soviets were incapable of doing anything to Japan without America's help, nor does any of this evidence nullify the logic that America nuked Japan to prevent any soviet influence over Japan, since after the completion of the manhattan project, they found a US-controlled Japan to be a preferable option. Look at Korea, which was split into North and South along cold war ideological lines. America did not want the same thing happening to Japan. This is an important thing to realize.
>>2877334They are, itโs a metaphor
>>2877338>that is a much stronger claim that you provided evidence for. You provided evidence that America armed and trained Soviets for a naval invasion of Japan. you did not provide evidence that the soviets were incapable of doing anything to Japan without America's help,There are more documents and texts too but you will just dismiss them and provide no evidence of your own so what is the point.
I don't know what is the point of arguing the Soviets could've taken any portion of Japan in a timely manner before a US ground invasion would've captured it. You'd have a better time arguing about why Stalin let America capture half of Germany and Europe.
>>2877344going back in time to kill doctor kellogg for shilling this shit in the burger reich (i was unwillingly circ'd at age 5 (yes, 5!) and am not even jewish)
>>2877070honestly it's not our fault communism is falsely defined as basic human decency, since the reactionaries engaging in red scare tactics slander every basic act of human decency as "communist" whether it actually is or not.
>>2877336>the japan had lost the war but still had options and could have gotten a better deal by reaching out to the soviets, one that the soviets would have certainly taken advantage of,And what is this shit. The soviets would not have given them a better deal. The US gave Japan a sweetheart deal for this exact reason.
>>2877344if you are familiar with history or you talk to older people or you've ever lived in a rural area or worked in blue collar jobs, you will realize how embarrassing and cringe this zoomer male hysteria over circumcision really is. outside of this soft sheltered white-collar plastic bubble that the modern day middle class westoids tend to live in, it is extremely common for men to have amputated appendages, missing fingers and toes and sometimes entire limbs from farming accidents or industrial work accidents or wartime injuries. men these days are such fucking pussies, they're not even men, they're just boys, perpetual baby boys.
>>2877352Your contrarianism isn't cute or interesting it's just vaguely annoying.
>>2877351They also almost bombed Kyoto and the only reason they didn't is because the Secretary of War had been there before and liked it.
Graham Platner has been arrested by Maine State police for fraud committed with former Campaign funds
I listened to the True Anon pod with the hind rajab foundation guy and he talked a bit about the legal basis to arrest member of the Israeli government in NYC and they were kind of wear arguments. It was that New York residents who were in Gaza, and are now in New York, are experiencing ongoing harm caused by trauma caused by things done under the orders of Israeli officials. I do believe that if this was about Chinese officials and Uyghurs, this would be a more viable legal argument. But as it stands it seems weak. So my conclusion here is that the mayor of NYC is correct in his assessment that he cannot arrest the prime minster of Israel.
>>2877356true and real. confirmed.
I gotta find the quote, but in their war plans, they thought the Japs were a lot more hardcore than they were. They estimated it would take like 20 nukes before they surrendered. Not to mention they already started starving them to death and millions more would have died of that.
>>2877361It is a lot less spooky since if you think about it, it was destined to kill way more people. Like 30k-60k or so.
>>2877336>japan had lost the war but still had options and could have gotten a better deal by reaching out to the soviets, one that the soviets would have certainly taken advantage ofThe Soviets deal was going to include getting rid of the emperor and destroy the entire class system of Japan while the Americans would keep all of that. The Red Army completely destroyed the IJA in Manchuria and into Korea. They were already empowering communists at this point and it was clear the Soviets were going to do the same in Japan with the Soviets taking out South Karafuto and slowly coming from the North. Surrender to the Americans is salvagable compared to surrendering with the Soviets on Japanese soil
>>2877362>>2877351>>2877353I was researching it more, and Demon Core was the same design and mass of plutonium as Fat Man. 6.2 kg Plutonium-239. So it would've had an identical yield of 21 kilotons(of TNT)vs the yield of Little Boy which had a yield of 15 kilotons. But Little Boy 70k-80k people whereas Fat Man only killed 40k people because I guess it depends how many people are in the blast radius.
>>2877353>It was anticipated that it would be ready by August 16 to be dropped on August 19.[3] This was pre-empted by Japan's surrender on August 15, 1945Just saved by 4 days.
Nobody ever talks about the people America didn't nuke.
>>2877378>I guess it depends how many people are in the blast radius. no need to guess, that's just self evident. Giza in Egypt has the highest population density per km squared btw. I was surprised when I looked this up because I thought it would be New Delhi something on the Indian subcontinent at least.
>>2877387let me tell you something: energy going up isn't a feat.
>>2877390Yeah heat rises obviously, still a crazy plume. The second tallest structure on Earth after the Tsar Bomba.
>The Tsar Bomba's mushroom cloud reached an estimated height of approximately 67 km (42 miles), which is nearly eight times higher than Mount Everest and extends well into the mesosphereIt's like seeing one of those giant trees like in DBZ Tree of might.
>>2877256>the laws of capital are the laws of gravityhttps://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1951/economic-problems/ch02.htm<Marxism regards laws of science โ whether they be laws of natural science or laws of political economy โ as the reflection of objective processes which take place independently of the will of man. Man may discover these laws, get to know them, study them, reckon with them in his activities and utilize them in the interests of society, but he cannot change or abolish them. Still less can he form or create new laws of science.<The same must be said of the laws of economic development, the laws of political economy โ whether in the period of capitalism or in the period of socialism. Here, too, the laws of economic development, as in the case of natural science, are objective laws, reflecting processes of economic development which take place independently of the will of man. Man may discover these laws, get to know them and, relying upon them, utilize them in the interests of society, impart a different direction to the destructive action of some of the laws, restrict their sphere of action, and allow fuller scope to other laws that are forcing their way to the fore-front; but he cannot destroy them or create new economic laws.<Reference is made to Engels' Anti-Duhring, to his formula which says that, with the abolition of capitalism and the socialization of the means of production, man will obtain control of his means of production, that he will be set free from the yoke of social and economic relations and become the "master" of his social life. Engels calls this freedom "appreciation of necessity." And what can this "appreciation of necessity" mean? It means that, having come to know objective laws ("necessity"), man will apply them with full consciousness in the interests of society. That is why Engels says in the same book:"The laws of his own social action, hitherto standing face to face with man as laws of nature foreign to, and dominating him, will then be used with full understanding, and so mastered by him."
>>2877354well at least i'm not a pussy who cries and feels sorry for myself because a little flap of loose skin was snipped off the end of my dick during my infancy, as it happened with over a billion other men, like 40% of the entire global male population. people lose eyes, digits, limbs, testicles, teeth, internal organs, and they manage to live happy healthy lives after being genuinely maimed. you lost a tiny flap of skin that does nothing and you don't need for anything. go fuck yourself.
>>2877352People are kinda up in arms about it because Circumcision doesn't really provide any benefits at all and it just done as a spooky ritual that no-one else has questioned. Basically they are doing it like so many "cultural rituals" on autopilot. Not to mention it was origionally used as a anti-masturbation method as well.
t. vid related
>>2877412if it's really an anti-masturbation method it's not a very effective one. if you want to keep a man from jerking off you'd have to cut it off at the base, if there's even a centimeter of dick left he'll be yanking on it
>>2877055I think Zohran has done decently well so far but what he's doing has little to do with socialism or even with pro-labor policies.
>>2877351Cause Japanese scientists told the fanatic military that the US didn't have the capability of making multiple nukes. The Emperor had to step in for Japan to surrender.
>>2877428i'm not your bro and there is nothing that will ever be "ours"
>>2877352circumcision gets perpetuated because no one wants to admit that they were victimized by their parents
>>2877428Lmao this is the most transparent Dems astroturf you can get.
"R-reading Marxist t-theory?…. C-CRINGE!! Haha!! Obama socialism; now
THAT'S the path!! SHUT UP AND START CANVASSING YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!!!"
>Obama, Hadi ["Democratic" comprador dictator] Discuss Yemen [before being BTFO in anti-colonial revolution]https://youtu.be/kq7YVI3C98M is obama socialism the official /usapol/ ideology?
>>2877468The spoils of US imperialism were a lot more widely distributed in the 60s than that are now. But even if not, it's possible for great socialist leaders to be wrong about stuff - or even if they're right, not every message will land the same with every audience.
>>2877468He wrote that prior to becoming a Marxist.
>>2877362>>2877378on some level if you think about it even the worst case that actually happened was a lot less destructive than even the relatively realistic possibility of a relatively small scale fizzle explosion that "only" released as much energy as a large conventional bomb. The fact that only the people standing literally right next to it ever died instead of like, the whole room…
>>2877428Don't vote for Democrats but de-stigmatization of socialism is a good thing.
>>2877468lack of class analysis means che is incorrect here
>>2877492In a piece literally titled โThe American Working Class: Friend or Foe?โ
>>2877378nagasaki is hilly which absorbed the blast better than hiroshima which is flat and spread the energy further killing more. hilly/mountainous cities are safer to be in for nuke blasts (earthquakes too)
Itโs American workers who become soldiers and cops for the money, killing and oppressing and abusing other workers
>>2877495Little Boy also hit closer to its target whereas Fat Man was a ways off.
If Canada takes its state security seriously it needs nukes, same with Brazil. High priority should be put on socialists from those nations to agitate to make it happen. It starts with getting rid of the agreement never to have them built
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tlatelolco>>2877499Thatโs retarded, you are just asking for more mutual destruction
>>2877428>sewer socialist>is simply an overweight terminally online twatter dweeb who recently discovered Milwaukee's socialist history and has never and will never help in labor organizing and throwing hands and elbows at cops, scabs, and fascists like the socialists heโs larping asProbably attends a weekly jacobin reading club at soho house. Weird hill to die on trying to defend Obama. Forgot drone striking children is socialist, bailing out banks is socialist, drone striking amerikkkans is socialist, caving on the public option despite have a super majority for the first time in 30 years is socialist, demanding that the head of CIA assassinate Snowden is socialist, cutting public benefits is socialistโฆI simply donโt get these people
>>2877506>Thatโs retardedamerican porky agrees! you two have a lot in common
>>2877510Probably the typical reasons. Either they're very pro-Israel, pro-MAGA, pro-NYPD, or just very dumb and confused.
>>2877506Would you say the same for Iran? I would.
>>2877510cuz hes brown and all brown people are muslim terrorists duh
>>2877499Hard agree, but the burgers would probably invade if they ever got wind of us making them.
>>2877506MAD actually wouldn't apply to Canada since most of our major cities and population centers are close enough to the US that they would be at high risk of getting a lot of the fallout from a nuclear strike. Meanwhile Canada could hit LA, Houston, Miami, New Orleans, Atlanta, etc without any risk to ourselves.
>When I see Social-Democrats proudly and smugly declaring โwe are not anarchists, thieves, robbers, we are superior to all this, we reject guerrilla warfareโ,โI ask myself: Do these people realise what they are saying? Armed clashes and conflicts between the Black-Hundred government and the population are taking place all over the country. This is an absolutely inevitable phenomenon at the present stage of development of the revolution. The population is spontaneously and in an unorganised wayโand for that very reason often in unfortunate and undesirable formsโreacting to this phenomenon also by armed conflicts and attacks. I can under stand us refraining from Party leadership of this spontaneous struggle in a particular place or at a particular time because of the weakness and unpreparedness of our organisation. I realise that this question must be settled by the local practical workers, and that the remoulding of weak and unprepared organisations is no easy matter. But when I see a Social-Democratic theoretician or publicist not displaying regret over this unpreparedness, but rather a proud smugness and a self-exalted tendency to repeat phrases learned by rote in early youth about anarchism, Blanquism and terrorism, I am hurt by this degradation of the most revolutionary doctrine in the world.
>It is said that guerrilla warfare brings the class-conscious proletarians into close association with degraded, drunken riff-raff. That is true. But it only means that the party of the proletariat can never regard guerrilla warfare as the only, or even as the chief, method of struggle; it means that this method must be subordinated to other methods, that it must be commensurate with the chief methods of warfare, and must be ennobled by the enlightening and organising influence of socialism. And without this latter condition, all, positively all, methods of struggle in bourgeois society bring the proletariat into close association with the various non-proletarian strata above and below it and, if left to the spontaneous course of events, become frayed, corrupted and prostituted. Strikes, if left to the spontaneous course of events, become corrupted into โalliancesโโagreements between the workers and the masters against the consumers. Parliament becomes corrupted into a brothel, where a gang of bourgeois politicians barter wholesale and retail โnational freedomโ, โliberalismโ, โdemocracyโ, republicanism, anti-clericalism, socialism and all other wares in demand. A newspaper becomes corrupted into a public pimp, into a means of corrupting the masses, of pandering to the low instincts of the mob, and so on and so forth. Social-Democracy knows of no universal methods of struggle, such as would shut off the proletariat by a Chinese wall from the strata standing slightly above or slightly below it. At different periods Social-Democracy applies different methods, always qualifying the choice of them by strictly defined ideological and organisationalconditions.[1] https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1906/gw/iii.htm >>2877523I'm pretty sure MAGA's base unironically believes the "Golden Dome" will protect them from nukes anyways
>>2877525<It is said that guerrilla warfare brings the class-conscious proletarians into close association with degraded, drunken riff-raff. That is true. But it only means that the party of the proletariat can never regard guerrilla warfare as the only, or even as the chief, method of struggle; it means that this method must be subordinated to other methodshe dont miss
>>2877529>What is the main incentive for White working-class American men, who have been the only force for over 200 years keeping the country economically, technically and civilizationally solventRetarded post. 200 years ago substantial portions of the economy ran on literal African slave labour, and workers of all races by definition sustain the economy.
>to support the DSA?Because they have an obvious economic interest in stronger labour rights, stronger unions, and redistribution of the existing surplus to the working class via social spending.
>importing and accommodating every latinx meat unit of cheap labour with free shit paid for by taxed wage labour Not happening. The US has virtually no welfare state. Meanwhile without migrant labour the entire economy would grind to a halt, and US food production would collapse. Go back to /pol/, you aren't fooling anybody. Workers of all races are exploited, workers of all races are allies, workers of all races have a direct and obvious interest in socialism.
>>2877504> family members of 9/11 victims I wonder how closely related you have to be. Are third cousins calling in?
>banned from the 25th anniversary memorial at Ground ZeroIf Zohran goes they will say his Muslim presence is disrespectful. If he does not go they will say he hates America.
>>2877512>Probably the typical reasons. Either they're very pro-Israel, pro-MAGA, pro-NYPD, or just very dumb and confused.All of the above
>>2877468>Che would support a schizo who doesn't put their money where their mouth isThe kind Che would have shot everyone here for being a reactionary, and then healed them (he was a medic) and then shot them again.
>>2877428picrel remains true
>>2877525I wonder if the average American 18 year old would understand this paragraph since literacy has declined so much in the past 2 decades. I find myself getting accused of "AI slop" and ignored if I post something 1/3rd as complex as this. Older people seem very hard to teach anything to as well.
>>2877531Africans were imported like horses and donkeys, they stopped using White indentured servants for that labour because they had more rights and would have developed class consciousness.
>workers of all races by definition sustain the economy.The economy of black and latinx HR ladies at S&P500 companies and 70% of first generation latrinx households in the US being on welfare?
>Because they have an obvious economic interest in stronger labour rights, stronger unions, and redistribution of the existing surplus to the working class via social spending.DSA supports absolutely throwing open the borders. Will that lead to those things?
>The US has virtually no welfare state.It does for Blacks and Mexicans lol
>Meanwhile without migrant labour the entire economy would grind to a halt, and US food production would collapse. Are you fucking retarded? You may as well be asking who's going to clean your toilet if you deport the Mexicans, Donald Trump?
Are you actually a socialist or do you want to feel good for supporting these things while you order doordash delivered by a minimally productive alien whose whole purpose for being there is wage suppression?
>>2877530he never does
>The forms of struggle in the Russian revolution are distinguished by their colossal variety compared with the bourgeois revolutions in Europe. Kautsky partly foretold this in 1902 when he said that the future revolution (with the exception perhaps of Russia, he added) might be not so much a struggle of the people against the government as a struggle between two sections of the people. In Russia we undoubtedly see a wider development of this latter struggle than in the bourgeois revolutions in the West. The enemies of our revolution among the people are few in number, but as the struggle grows more acute they become more and more organised and receive the support of the reactionary strata of the bourgeoisie. It is therefore absolutely natural and inevitable that in such a period, a period of nation-wide political strikes, an uprising cannot assume the old form of individual acts restricted to a very short time and to a very small area. It is absolutely natural and inevitable that the uprising should assume the higher and more complex form of a prolonged civil war embracing the whole country, i.e., an armed struggle between two sections of the people. Such a war cannot be conceived otherwise than as a series of a few big engagements at comparatively long intervals and a large number of small encounters during these intervals. That being soโand it is undoubtedly soโthe Social-Democrats must absolutely make it their duty to create organisations best adapted to lead the masses in these big engagements and, as far as possible, in these small encounters as well. In a period when the class struggle has become accentuated to the point of civil war, Social-Democrats must make it their duty not only to participate but also to play the leading role in this civil war. The Social-Democrats must train and prepare their organisations to be really able to act as a belligerent side which does not miss a single opportunity of inflicting damage on the enemyโs forces.
>This is a difficult task, there is no denying. It cannot be accomplished at once. Just as the whole people are being retrained and are learning to fight in the course of the civil war, so our organisations must be trained, must be reconstructed in conformity with the lessons of experience to be equal to this task.
>We have not the slightest intention of foisting on practical workers any artificial form of struggle, or even of deciding from our armchair what part any particular form of guerrilla warfare should play in the general course of the civil war in Russia. We are far from the thought of regarding a concrete assessment of particular guerrilla actions as indicative of a trend in Social-Democracy. But we do regard it as our duty to help as far as possible to arrive at a correct theoretical assessment of the new forms of struggle engendered by practical life. We do regard it as our duty relentlessly to combat stereotypes and prejudices which hamper the class-conscious workers in correctly presenting a new and difficult problem and in correctly approaching its solution. >>2877536Remarkably depressing and has only gotten worse. "No cHiLd lEfT BeHiNd!"
>>2877539Why are some of the most literate places in the country in rural Ohio and Nebraska? Why are the Ozarks more literate than most of the sun belt? Why is rural Pennsylvania with the exception of some Amish shitholes more literate than LA?
The Scotch-Irish have always been backwards so they're the only main blip on this map really
>>2877541It literally is though. Are you denying this is the case in 2026? You people yourselves can't go without sperging "the economy will collapse nobody will pick tomatoes ever again if we can't pay them illegally low wages!", as if collapsing the economy isn't literally the point. You do realise that corporate lobbying is why Trump stopped the balls out ICE raids right? Why would le racist fascist populist capitalism in crisis orange demagogue keep browning the country with H1bs and undeported illegal workers for his corporate masters rather than pandering to his base by getting the fuck rid of them? hmmmm? You should be willing to personally go out and pick tomatoes with your bare hands 10 hours a day if it means building socialism in your country not "nooo we need all these people whose skulls are weird shapes here or the capitalist economy which I hate will implode!"
>>2877532To be fair, ngl: writings could be simplified.
This is how I'd write
>>2877530> They say gurella warfare leads to workin with the drunks and the riff raffs, then dont make it the only method!> If they burn all the forests down: no more gorilla warfare, and if that's our only horse, we're boned! No steel ball race for us!> But we fear it not, since we got other horses to use!2nd and 3rd could also be cut out
>>2877535son you type like a liberal
>>2877529>What is the main incentive for oh boy you can always tell pol bait when it starts with "why should I…?" They pretend to want their mind change only to post the stinkiest bait of all time
>White irrelevant
>working-class yes>Americanirrelevant
>menirrelevant
>who have been the only force for over 200 years keeping the country economically, technically and civilizationally solventmuh burger nation
>to support the DSA?AHAHHAHAHAHAHA fuck the DSA
>picHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA fuck every single person in that pic and fuck you too
> Also, if China has been developing the productive forces necessary for socialism for decades with a population of over a billion and a high average eye queue, how does the United States mass importing and accommodating every latinx meat unit of cheap labour with free shit paid for by taxed wage labour (since the billionaires will surely fuck off to some porky country, being at home both everywhere and nowhere, or compromise DSA so much they will go "lol cant arrest and expropriate them") lead to socialism?the latinx menace wouldn't even want to immigrate to your country if it weren't for imperialism. when will you get that through your thick skull? End the IMF, end CIA coups, end structural adjustment programs, end currency hegemony, end sanctions, end invasions, bury every third world class traitor and comprador bourgeoisie in a shallow grave, and the global South will be able to develop on its own terms and there will be no incentive to immigrate to the burger nation. While we're on the subject if you hate America so much why don't you go back Europe? You are spiritually Israeli like all right wingers.
>>2877545Lots of cope but no sources, typical for a mayo monkey
>>2877546>To be fair, ngl: writings could be simplified.ok then go ask slop GPT to write MECW for dummies one paragraph at a time (if you try to do it all at once it will just get confused and spout contradictory nonsense because context windows are tiny for normies with no money)
>>2877548Which CIA coup made Mexico a shithole btw? Can you name 2 things Mexicans invented in modern times (apart from that one Mexican who figured out colour television)
>While we're on the subject if you hate America so much why don't you go back Europe? Why is Europe full of these stinky people too?
>>2877552>Which CIA coup made Mexico a shithole btw? How did America get Texas btw
>>2877550You didn't see the corporate lobbying ICE thing everywhere? I thought we were people who paid attention here. I guess you were busy debating Bordiga and whether the mold growing out of your cum sock exists in a state of primitive communism.
THE DSA, TEAMSTER'S UNION, AUTO UNION, AND 8 OTHER UNIONS HAVE DECLARED A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE
>>2877553Because everything north of the Rio Grande was a few missions and tribes that ripped people's faces off like commanches so the Mexicans decided the best way to populate their lawless northern frontier was with steers and queers from America who were heading west and land-hungry anyway. Unfortunately, immigrants tend to want to make places like their home country so Texans had some gripes with living under Mexican law, among them being that it was illegal to own BBCs as pets. All of Mexico's wars with Americans in the fucking 1830s and 40s in its virtually unpopulated (except for indigenous ppl) northern frontier had like no bearing on its modern living standards btw. Beaners would still be hopping the border if the Whigs or some shit had made it so the US never expanded there, they would just be hopping the border to Oregon and Missouri instead
(USER WAS ALREADY BANNED) >>2877554Mossad, Saudi Wahhabists, and The evangelical Bush family all came together for that production. Don't you just love it when all 3 Abrahamic religions cooperate to produce something beautiful?
>>2877556How do I organize a strike?
>>2877560You go out into a public space where lots of people are listening, grab a megaphone and then shout:
IDECLAREGENERAL STRIKESomething should happen after that
>>2877552>Why is Europe full of these stinky people too?I thought white men kept their countries solvent? Now you're telling me they're weak and under invasion everywhere?
>>2877558If might makes right and the dirty mexicans deserved to have Texas taken from them by the proud slave owning white Texan settler, then you are weak and deserve to have "your" stolen settler colony overrun by the brown hordes you import as cheap labor. If you can't accept that brown immigrants are consequences of your IMF loans, sanctions, and CIA coups then you will continue to make the same "mistakes" when until you are destroyed. You will then blame everyone but yourself. It was the woke commie Jews and their brown Muslim allies who destroyed you after all, not 2 centuries of unsustainable behavior predicated on pre-emptively attacking anyone you could if it gained you the slightest advantage
>>2877560a strike is weak without a union and external support, so organize that first. Remember, strikes are the labor version of a siege. If your supplies do not outlast the bourgeoisie, they will just bring in scabs, call your bluff, fire everyone, etc. Strikes are extra weak because of Taft Hartley.
>>2877572Damn, fucked up that they burned down the colored orphan asylum.
>>2877577fuck the DSA and fuck you too. don't cry about "muh zero sum game" every single faggot in the USA who cries about "muh white male workers are being invaded by le brown hordes" voted for Bush 20 years ago, supported the GWOT, supported bombing the "mudslimes" back into to the stone age, supported bombing iran, supported defunding the schools and hospitals, expanding the prison, increasing the military budget, privatizing and deregulating everything, busting unions.
You will be destroyed because every single thing you do is for your short term benefit at the expense of the long term sustainability of "your" country. Can't you see that? No. because you are suicidally reactionary. The essence of your ideology is that you are superior because you are white, and any action you take against others is justifiable but they can never fight back. Cope.
>>2877577Because the DSA and leftists in general are opposed to the imperialist policies which result in waves of mass migration in the first place
>>2877583You're right so I should accelerate the destruction of my entire country even more by supporting the political group which most openly supports letting even more high time preference, short time horizon people who are pros at being exploited. Is this what you are suggesting? At this point is this socialism or just brownpeopleism?
>hello fellow leftists, we need strong borders, too many people are coming here
<so end the IMF loans? end imperialism? end the CIA coups? end US currency hegemony?
>No, just give ICE and CBP a trillion more dollars to run around like headless chickens while not actually combating immigration since it benefits the corporate owned government that decides their budget anyway
>>2877586>brownpeopleismyou jewish nigger you came to this board crying about how muh white males are the only thing keeping muh nation solvent while pretending to be class conscious. i called your bluff and spit in your ugly face and now you want to pretend like the brown people were just doing brownpeopleism at you and you're a victim. you live in a basement in tel aviv in an amazon data center or in a call center in india. you are not real. you are a djinn. no productive conversation can be had with you. you should be mocked.
>>2877587ending retarded CIA coups, impeerealeezum and the current world financial system is a given if you are actually a socialist. The part I don't understand is wanting a tidal wave of every single cunt from the Rio Grande to Tierra del Fuego to be able to move into the US. Because you realise their countries will still be shit and were doomed to be shit compared to the US since day 1 right? They had too many structural internal problems from the start not even factoring in culture and race. Do you support reparations for imperialism by spending all of the wealth generated by US workers paying third world "epic axis of resistance" governments in hopes the browns will not invade or something?
>>2877586actually yes, we should give ICE and CBP a trillion more dollars so they can hire more cuban gusanos and mexican petty bourgeois to run around in ski masks with cletus and shoot random white leftoids in blue states, that would be very funny
>>2877590u still havent explained why the policy to let in every brown face from the third world wouldnt just prop up capitalism
>>2877593>is wanting a tidal wave of every single cunt from the Rio Grande to Tierra del Fuego to be able to move into the US. i don't care if they come or not because i am not interested int he sustainability of your burger nation. i am merely telling you that you make them come by being imperialist and they will stop coming if there is no comparative advantage to be had from living there. get it through your thick burger skull
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-haitian-migrants-arrest-deport-temporary-protected-status/Actual Existing Socialism is pogroms against Haitians apparently
>U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has made plans to ramp up operations to arrest and deport Haitian migrants, as hundreds of thousands of Haitians brace for the termination of their legal status, according to two agency sources and federal documents obtained by CBS News.
>The plans include arresting migrants in Ohio โ where large Haitian communities in cities like Springfield have been targeted by President Trump and conservative politicians and commentators โ and quickly putting them on deportation flights to crisis-stricken Haiti, the internal documents indicate. During the 2024 presidential campaign, Mr. Trump amplified baseless claims that Haitians in Springfield were eating cats and dogs.
>The internal plans for a potential arrest and deportation blitz have been made as more than 300,000 Haitians prepare to lose deportation protections and work permits under the Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, program. The Supreme Court last month sided with the Trump administration in its efforts to end the TPS programs for Haitians and Syrians. That ruling's binding mandate is set to be issued to lower courts on Monday.
>Since that ruling, fear and uncertainty have swept throughout Haitian communities across the U.S. Immigrants whose TPS lapses immediately lose their ability to work in the country legally, and become eligible to be arrested and processed for deportation by ICE, unless they have another status. Those without removal orders are generally entitled to appear before an immigration judge before any deportation can take place.
>The operations targeting Haitian migrants could start as early as this week, the documents suggest, but more details about the scale of the plans were not immediately clear. The ICE sources who described the preparations requested anonymity to describe internal plans that have not been publicly disclosed and are fluid.
>Any uptick in deportations to Haiti would almost certainly raise political and humanitarian challenges, given the dire situation in the Caribbean nation, the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Significant portions of Haiti are controlled by criminal gangs, and the U.S. has generally limited deportations to Cap-Haรฏtien, in the country's north, due to the instability and insecurity in the capital of Port-au-Prince. The State Department urges Americans not to visit Haiti under any circumstances, citing the rampant violence there.
>In a statement to CBS News, the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees ICE, said it "does not discuss ongoing or future operations." It argued TPS has been used as a "defacto amnesty program" and suggested that those set to lose their status should self-deport.
>"What we would say now is it's closing time which means you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here," DHS added in its statement. "The good news is it's not too late to get a $2,600 check and a free flight home."
>Guerline Jozef, executive director of the Haitian Bridge Alliance, a nonprofit that helps migrants from Haiti, said the specter of deportation has placed Haitians on edge.
>"Once again our community members find themselves in a state of extreme trauma, fear and terror. One of them told me it feels like a tsunami or an earthquake with nonstop aftershocks," Jozef told CBS News. "Her little girl doesn't even want to go to school for fear of coming home and not finding her mother."
>Created in 1990 by Congress, TPS allows federal immigration officials to grant temporary work permits and a reprieve from deportation to immigrants from countries facing an armed conflict, environmental disaster or another emergency.
>The Trump administration has sought to end most TPS programs, arguing that they incentivize illegal immigration and that they have been unnecessarily extended for too long by Democratic administrations, despite the temporary nature of the policy. It has terminated or moved to end TPS programs for hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Afghanistan, Cameroon, Honduras, Nicaragua, Venezuela and other countries.
>A version of Haiti's TPS program has been around since 2010, following the devastating earthquake there that year. But most of those currently enrolled in the program came to the U.S. under the Biden administration, either illegally along the southern border or through programs, since terminated by Mr. Trump's White House, that allowed Haitians and other immigrants to enter the country legally.
>The Trump administration moved to end the Haiti TPS policy last year, but the decision has been held up in court ever since.
>In a ruling in February, U.S. District Court Judge Ana Reyes found that the move to end the program was "in part" rooted in "racial animus," citing disparaging remarks that then DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and Mr. Trump made about Haiti and immigrants. But in its decision last month, the Supreme Court's majority said federal law barred judges from reviewing TPS determinations and found Mr. Trump's comments not to be "overtly racial."
>The Trump administration scaled back large-scale immigration roundups after two U.S. citizens, Renee Good and Alex Pretti, were killed by federal agents during a massive deployment to the Minneapolis area in January. But ICE operations have ramped up this summer, amid pressure for the agency to record 2,000 daily arrests.
>Last month, the number of detainees booked into ICE custody hit a monthly record high for the second Trump administration. During the recent surge in ICE operations, two immigrants from Mexico and Colombia were killed by agents during traffic stops in Texas and Maine. >>2877596okay so you are not interested in the health of the working body politic of certain places if they aren't brown. got it
>>2877595the policy which lets every brown person in is imperialism and anti communism. the government actually wants more gusanos, and the gusanos love to come to burger land because it is a safe haven for brown anti communists who want to start small landscaping, roofing, construction and fence building businesses since fat petty bourgeois settlers in the USA forgot how to do that kind of work from 200 years of being fat ugly slave owning imperialists. make sense retard? you are not actually working class. go pick the strawberries and build the fences and give up your currency hegemony and juan will stop showing up. fat fucking petty bourgeois retard larping as a worker.
>>2877599>the american is illiterate even when you try to speak his retarded languagei told you how to make them stop coming but you don't want to listen. so just triple your ICE budget again and bomb some more middle eastern countries for israel. I'm sure that will stop the flow
>>2877535>they stopped using White indentured servants for that labour because they had more rights and would have developed class consciousnessSlaves developed class consciousness too, which is why there were slave uprisings, Black units in the Union Army, and abolitionist movements.
>The economy of black and latinx HR ladies at S&P500 companies and 70% of first generation latrinx households in the US being on welfareShit you just made up. In fact the literal opposite is true, Hispanic families use social safety nets at a lower rate than other groups even when eligible.
https://www.poverty.ucdavis.edu/post/safety-net-programs-underused-eligible-hispanic-families>DSA supports absolutely throwing open the bordersThe borders are already effectively open because the US is structurally dependent on migrant labour to continue existing. The difference is that the DSA will actually allow these people to organize to prevent their presence from depressing wages. I would favour a more restrictive policy myself, but loosening restrictions is preferable to the current system which relies on keeping migrants in the country but too precarious to organize. Deportation is the strongest tool porkies have to discipline migrant labour and keep their wages low.
>Are you fucking retarded?No I actually have an accurate understanding of how American agricultural systems work. The majority of farm labour is done by migrant workers, without it America would literally starve. Undocumented workers alone make up 40% of America's agricultural workforce, and that's not including those who are in the US legally on work visas.
https://www.bakerinstitute.org/research/feeding-america-how-immigrants-sustain-us-agriculture>Are you actually a socialistYes I am, which is why I understand that workers will never get anything if they don't put aside bourgeois fabrications like race that were literally dreamt up by slavers, landowners, and capitalists to weaken them. You on the other hand clearly want workers to be busy attacking each other so that they are too weak and divided to effectively resist capital. It's literally the oldest trick in the book and actual socialists have been wise to it since the fucking 19th century.
>>2877508Every Millennial has a soft spot for Obama. The ideal version of him was seen as hip and cool back in the day. Hope and Change for millennials was like crack and there are a lot with Obama nostalgia. So AOC, Mamdani and even JD Vance(look at past interviews) has a little Obama nostalgia in them
>>2877604Millennials are also the last generation of people white enough and literate enough that those who call themselves socialists could give you the Wikipedia definition of socialism. After that it's planet of the apes
>>2877608What's the "definition of socialism" that only white people are able to comprehend apparently?
>>2877608what do you mean white enough?
>>2877611he is the same loser who posted this bait:
>>2877529 >>2877612Yeah he's repeatedly ban evading on various VPN nodes in an attempt to, idk, convince us that we need a white ethnostate for socialism
>>2877611I forgot leftybeautiful lady๐๐ฅฐs didnt even pay attention to demographics.
>>2877614I'm not convincing you of anything I am just curious as to why the DSA believes in mass brown immigration being good for socialism. the answer I've gotten so far is either a) white porkies sent invasions of India in 1759 so bitch madarchod we are essential invading your sister pussy or b) solidarity between all working people trumps any sort of internal division like race even though brown ppl are the most tribally minded and scabby of people since forever (regardless of class too lol), but I just need to have faith and wait for the meaningful organisation to occur (when succdem DSA who cant even arrest the heeb netanyahu wins or something). I also read Engels' essay on Irish immigration.
>>2877616beautiful lady๐๐ฅฐs that's a funny word filter
>>2877618everybody here and their discord groomer will insist they've worked and organised with trillions of brown people since forever and all of them are amazing geniuses, so it's useless for me to rhetorically ask that, but if you had actually done so and were not LARPing about it (such as unironically working in a workplace with Indians), it would leave a pretty big mark on your worldview that it would be hard for the calibre of leftist you see protesting on the street (who is actually just a brown penis worshipper) to address
>>2877604>Every Millennial has a soft spot for Obama.I mean, not really? He was almost a complete let down.
>Hope and Change for millennials was like crack and there are a lot with Obama nostalgia.Only in 08. When he immediately decided to not go after anyone from the Bush admins it was obvious he didn't actually mean he would change anything.
That said, I think every rational person would be "nostalgic" for Obama in some sense since he was easily the best of the last four presidents. His competition is "should be in a nursing home Biden" Trump and Dubya who is not only retarded but also did 9/11. Also the two candidates he ran against totally sucked. McCain was the guy who invented the "build the wall" thing but his version was "build the dang fence!" Romney is a creepy uncharasmatic billionaire who also attached himself to the pre-MAGA movement called the Tea Party even if he's actually probably one of the most centrist big name Republicans. He invented Obamacare first in Massachusetts ad Romneycare.
So as shit as Obama was and as much of a bait and switch, he's easily the best of any other president or candidate that's been presented since. Biden and Hillary both voted for the Iraq invasion and all the Bush shenanigans. Kamala is like Obama but the Julia-Louise Dreyfuss in Veep edition. Xanned out wine aunt version of Obama. Maybe second best option we've been presented with.
>>2877616> I am just curious as to why the DSA believes in mass brown immigration being good for socialismno you're not. you're just constructing lazy strawmen so you can justify tripling the ICE budget which won't even stop mass migration anyway. the only thing that will stop mass migration is the end of imperialism. people migrate to where the wages are higher so they can send remissions back home. if wages and productive forces equalized all over the world, there would be no incentive to migrate.
>even though brown ppl are the most tribally minded and scabby of people since foreversoon you will see white people migrating to china and the chinese will start calling white people stinky scabby invaders. there's nothing racially inherent about this, people just migrate from the less developed to the more developed regions. same reason cletus will move from the back woods of alabama to the big city to get a job.
>>2877625when did I deny that the orange negroid has deported less people than obama because actual mass importations by ICE would disrupt porky's extraction of surplus value? do you assume you are talking to a MAGAtard because I acknowledge one of the main policies of American socialists is to let in every single scab from the third world unconditionally?
>>2877625>people migrate to where the wages are higher so they can send remissions back home. Yeah this happened constantly in the eastern bloc where living standards were 100% equal throughout right? This shit isn't a symptom of capitalism and propping it up despite a falling rate of profit and aging population right? Fucking lol
>>2877624You should go try to form a united front with them but if I had to bet my life savings on it working or not, well, I confidently think I would end up being slightly less poor with my decision
>>2877620>I mean, not really? He was almost a complete let downThat's the point, the letdown hurt but there is still a soft spot for him. This can be especially seen with apolitical types
>>2877629>the orange negroid when white people disappoint you they are no longer white lmfao
>>2877633yup zion don is a race traitor porky
>>2877629>Yeah this happened constantly in the eastern bloc where living standards were 100% equal throughout right? This shit isn't a symptom of capitalism and propping it up despite a falling rate of profit and aging population right? Fucking lolthe eastern bloc didn't have currency hegemony retard. the eastern bloc didn't enforce structural adjustment programs using IMF loans lol. the eastern bloc didn't coup third world governments when they tried to nationalize natural resources or raise living standards lmfao
>>2877634>race traitor porkywait I thought he wasn't white. now you are saying he is white and has betrayed le race. which is it? Maybe race is fake and gay if it can be revoked. Maybe he is a porky behaving exactly as porkies always have. Maybe you should stop expecting "race solidarity" out of porkies you stupid retard.
>>2877635your glistening black sweaty breathtakingly sexy ass just told me that we need to equalise wages and productive forces in the congo or the brown hordes will keep invading. which of course you know would never happen under any system
>>2877638look king leopold, if you go to the congo, steal their rubber, and chop off their hands, don't be surprised when they decide to migrate to belgium to partake in the wealth which stolen from them. how hard is this to understand?
>>2877638>equaliseYou are not even American lmao. Are you some disgruntled euro projecting your politics? Brevik retarded takes right now
>>2877619>but if you had actually done so and were not LARPing about it (such as unironically working in a workplace with Indians)I had an Indian bf
>it would leave a pretty big mark on your worldview that it would be hard for the calibre of leftist you see protesting on the street (who is actually just a brown penis worshipper) to addressDamn you're calling me out now.
Eh, what's less important is convincing you to support the DSA (most anons on leftypol don't really like them all that much, and I don't think anyone here cares to put in the effort or is interested in repping the DSA to you), but talking about this like grown-ups having a civil conversation about what's happening in our country. Also it's interesting to think about what the DSA is, why it has emerged as a factor in American politics. I think one reason you're asking this question is that it doesn't make
young white men like yourself out to be some enemy. That was what peak wokeness really did. It doesn't make immigrants out to be the enemy either. The DSA has other enemies whether they be billionaires, "the establishment," and AIPAC which are enemies that those young white men and working immigrants can sort of unite against. At least some of them will. Also some of them might hook up while they're there which solves the feel when no gf problem.
In any event, the combination of these things makes the organization effective. It has positive (+) energy from people enjoying their participation in the DSA, making friends, meeting people. But it also has negative (-) energy which it gets from having an enemy, and naming an enemy, and naming the right enemy. It completes the circuit like in a battery which gives it a charge, which allows it to perform "work." It creates momentum. So there's no reason for this to stop anytime soon. Once it has momentum it's going to keep going unless there's a really concerted effort to make it stop.
>>2877642>I think one reason you're asking this question is that it doesn't make young white men like yourself out to be some enemy. That was what peak wokeness really did. It doesn't make immigrants out to be the enemy either. The DSA has other enemies whether they be billionaires, "the establishment," and AIPAC which are enemies that those young white men and working immigrants can sort of unite against. At least some of them will. This is the most worrying thing about them. They have rabid aggressive brown women like darializa chevalier talking about eradicating western civilization while gullible white people with no prospects support them and expect them to do something about the whole economy being an unsustainable ponzi scheme run by billionaire pedos problem. It's gonna be the ultimate bait and switch. It will make MAGA look like a joke.
>>2877647>famous for being retardedbush was a bloodthirsty ghoul from an old anglo connecticut family that took part in the business plot against FDR. his dad was head of the CIA, and possibly took part in the killing of JFK. bush's folksy mannerisms and cocaine cowboy attitude were entirely a clown show for retards. he is one of the most bloodthirsty and self aware presidents of all time. and he and obama are friendly with each other in direct mockery of the american culture war which claims them to be opposites. they are cut from the same cloth of ruthless snake oil salesmen. just like trump and biden too. every president is a war criminal without exception. Even the "good" presidents like FDR and Lincoln.
>>2877640this shut him up. i guess he really is euro
How it started:
>>2877529>What is the main incentive for White working-class American men, who have been the only force for over 200 years keeping the country economically, technically and civilizationally solvent, to support the DSA? How it's going:
>>2877638>your glistening black sweaty breathtakingly sexy ass just told me that we need to equalise wages and productive forces in the congo or the brown hordes will keep invading. which of course you know would never happen under any systemleast brainfucked euroid btw
>>2877656Of course the only people reporting on this are Epsteinites with noses the size of a barge who drink the blood of infants and mix it into matzo bread for breakfast
Can we get a movement of normal anti-system people who are between these two extremes of rabid mulatto pitbull and chabad turbo jew (actually all of the latter are pro-system anyway lol)? Is DSA somehow supposed to be that movement?
>>2877655I don't know, Bush Jr. Seems legitimately slow-witted. Also a legit Christian nutter. I don't think it's all an act despite him going to Yale.
Also, the Biden who was president was not the Biden he was his whole life. The reason they never let him be the candidate before is because he's very aggro and also just says whatever crazy shit comes to his head. I think once the senility slowed him down, it allowed people to pretend he has a calm and gentle personality.
>>2877659You are probably a pajeet and you should be boiled, peeled, deboned, mashed, dried, powdered and incorporated into fertiliser in that order
>>2877661it was an act. a charade. a sham. and if it wasn't then it didn't matter because cheney was running the show and was the same kind of ice chewing bourgeois anglo demon as Bush Sr.
>>2877663Then he's going to ask:
>Why do people not like white guys?The white boi cries out in pain as he strikes you!
Show us your cranial measurements you Yakubian ape
>>2877663What is with Glowies and their obsession with India these days?
>>2877666considering white DSA fags who prostrate before the black fertile succulent organs of melanated kings will be cut up into jolof rice meat cubes by a machete the second they are able to truly fulfill their wish of total open borders into the US, I am not sure whether a White man's tone has much impact on how others perceive him ngl. I think Whitey is gonna be hunted for sport soon regardless of what xhe posts on bluesky
>>2877667>I'm Irish I'm IrishAstagfirullah why do Americans always LARP this shit
(USER CHOKED TO DEATH ON BIG BLACK COCK) >>2877529Believe it or not this is a hasbara post.
>>2877673>accuse someone of being something random<they say what they are because you baited them>O M G WHY ARE YOU LARPING REEEEEEEEEEEsorry faggot i am a proud hibernian. rep the IRA. total anglo death.
>>2877675I believe it. he was revealed to be european later on and white supremacist europeans are the biggest bootlickers of israel right now.
>>2877674This place could use an agricultural thread at some point
>>2877678cumtown is a podcast
>>2877690I saw recently that Brevik only received a 21 year sentence.
Norway is the best place to commit mass murder.
>>2877689>but instead are liberal Anti-White clowns who would literally support everything Israel is doing if the average Israeli had black skin instead?You mean if they were Black and were genociding Arabs or something? I guess we don't have anything specifically to compare it to but that's actually a typical Israeli talking point:
>What about the genocide in Sudan? Why are you talking about Gaza instead of Sudan?Even though the Israelis and UAE are supporting the ones doing the genocide the RSF.
https://www.newarab.com/analysis/blood-and-business-israel-uae-nexus-fuelling-sudans-war<Several sources also reported that the RSF acquired advanced surveillance equipment flown into Sudan on aircraft linked to former Israeli military officer Tal Dilian. In October 2023, Israeli-made artillery was also observed in the RSFโs possession.
<In comments to The New Arab, Eiad Husham confirmed that Emirati lobbying has extended to pro-Israel groups in Washington, working to amplify narratives favourable to the RSF in both the US and Israel while simultaneously deflecting scrutiny from Abu Dhabiโs own role in fuelling the conflict.
>In April, RSF official Youssef Ezzat drew a parallel between his factionโs war against Sudanโs army and Israelโs fight against Palestinian groups.
>โWhat we are exposed to,โ he told Israelโs Kan broadcaster, โIsrael has suffered thousands of times from terrorist groups such as Hamas and other factions that Israeli citizens know well.โ>>2877694long live the butcher or something
>>2877692They gave him his own 2 bedroom apartment and he complains about inhuman conditions.
>The document said Breivik had access to three cells โ one for living, one for studying, and a third for physical exercise โ as well as a television, a computer without internet access and a games console, and that he was able to prepare his own food and do his own laundry.Meanwhile the guy who is the basis for the Poljak meme, Patrick Crussius who shot up the Mexicans at Walmart, he's gonna be in the oubliette for the rest of his life. No window privileges. Honestly that's a fate worse than death I think.
>>2877698<2nd picWhat the fuck is even the point in keeping people warehoused like this, exactly?
>>2877697oh sweet summer child, you are going to live a long long time and life will only get worse. by the end of this you will wish you were dead.
Just awoke from like a months long disassociative episode and had my first conscious discussion with someone really clingy and holy hell they clung on. Gahd ill put myself back in stasis- its legitimate torture, not normal clingy either oh no no i have to talk to you intermittently All day, everyday? And pile on spending time with you, all day, everyday, ontop of my own current issues?
Id rather pluck teeth than this. Scratch that i already am. I dunno why i try this socializing shtick when im not only happier but more put together by my lonesome, Until i inevitably crave good company BUT THERE IS NO GOOD COMPANY not where im at nooo. Fuckin' might just embrace faggotry more see where that takes me all roads lead to Rome an all that.
Feels like a transitional phase tbh like the old frame i was using just isnt working anymore; there are several paths to choose, each more miserable than the last but which will make me feel happy in the long run? Very confusing.
Side note; ever since i woke up from the fish eye stare thing i had going ive noticed more and more that people dont sound like people. Not everyone but a sizable chunk talk in a very disingenuous, censored, and overly complicated manner. Like reading a script. Just give it to me straight doc, i dont need this sugar coated spoon fed slop i want street talk. Talk to me as a person with your own morals experiences and values that you've spent time pondering on, dont just readily accept shit cause thats what everyone else is doing. We dont have to see eye to eye theres bound to be subjectivity somewhere thats the beauty of individual consciousness but by the gods- old new nonexistent never did- dont spew slop at me ill punch you. Got mfs sounding like a gpt prompt.
>>2877738sounds like a wet dream
>>2877738I get those kind of dreams a lot where I'm in some situation with a group of people that are all doing some kind of thing together and I'm completely lost to as what is going on, what I'm supposed to be doing, why I'm there.
>>2877745Gonna say too I wouldn't classify them as nightmares. I don't know what you call a low grade unpleasurable dream but that's the kinda tier I have a lot.
>>2877747I wouldn't have called it a nightmare if I didn't get beat to death at the end but yeah I have a lot of low grade unpleasant dreams too. I also have a lot of total nonsense trippy bullshit. like stuff that makes no physical, spatial, or temporal sense. Stuff like my head detaching from my body and floating around, or me living as somebody else, etc.
>>2877598Any thoughts on this? Seems like they're beginning another ethnic cleansing campaign
>>2877773THE HERRENVOLKISCHKULTUR MUST BE PRESERVED !!!!!!
>>2877773The "Marxist ideology" in question is quite literally the natural history museum and anything that says slavery was bad
>>2877777quints of obvious but necessary reminder
>>2877738<vid shut up.It's so clear as day that shit doesn't work, don't interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.
>>2877793Jarhead is just a shittier version of Full Metal Jacket
somebody give me the TLDR of the Fuentes/Biden interview thing with channel 5, because I can't watch that for like two hours
I felt like it was one thing for channel 5 to interview randoms and average Joes, but I feel like it has to be a sort of calculated business move grift type thing to have Fuentes on. Or is channel 5 actually 'based'?
does anyone know how to link a reddit video here?
>>2877789Copium. Liberals have accpeted that they don't know how to beat maga so now are overdosing on the cope that it is at war with itself. It isn't. At least not in a significant amount. Tucker is engaged in a sheepdogging operation to make sure anti-israel young Trump Voters show up for Vance (or more likely Trump Jr.) in 2028; it's not a real constituency. Trump's approval rating has gone down but it's just the non-maga voters who took a chance on him abandoning him again.
>my private property
>end the bolshevik surveillance of my petty bourgeois diddling
>face tattoos and quirky social media personality
anarchism alert
AP did a sit down interview with Laura loomer in Ukraine lol
It's the front page article now on the website
https://apnews.com/article/laura-loomer-trump-ukraine-russia-interview-101852f6deab17e1d8d215fdde675ee5Clown world
>>2877844
Pol has always been pro-Ukraine. I think there is a divide between American posters and Euro posters. Euro posters have always been gung ho pro-Ukraine, and Americans have always been largely indifferent. Of course there are exceptions.
REPOST DUE TO GRAMMAR ERRORS
>>2877813I visited pol recently and found their stance these days is very pro-ukraine. or maybe not exactly pro Ukraine, but definitely anti war. they've identified that a lot of zigger supporter are just "turd worldists" and say that the war is just carrying out le white genocide in Ukraine and blame putin who started this so called "brother war" against the west. of course they don't support the jewlenskyy, but as the alt-right moves past trump to delve into further right wing degenerate nonsense, they've abandoned all of the causes associated with the old maga movement, and thhat includes whatever support they may have had for putin
>>2877843GLORY TO CHAIRMAN TRUMP FOR HIS TOTAL VICTORY ON THE AI FRONT OF THE IRAN WARR
>>2877843Nah, the generals just plugged him into an AI matrix to placate him so he thinks this is all actually real
>>2877844
it's funny how zelenskyy gets the credit for the ukraine conflict when the shenanigans started under poroshenko after the euromaidan coup
The car and suburbanization killed the proletariat and itโs revolutionary potential
how does any of this contribute to the real movement though
>>2877863There is no real movement to either contribute to or detract from
>>2877863Russia sabotaging western imperialist porkies interests in ukraine makes them the biggest contributor to the real movement in global terms
I see the bot is active
>>2877894The (former) successor of Holden Bloodfeast
>>2877804From Wikipedia:
>donationware download manager, written in Java>Latest release: 26 May 2016Never give people advice about tech again.
>>2877985Ban this guy for trying to trick people into installing malware
Nothing works or is sustainable yet any sort of genuine, workable alternative might as well be an alien spacecraft in a language we canโt pronounce
>>2877856meh, unless they explicitly say it, I don't believe it. I don't believe anything coming out the US media apparatus without something else backing it up.
rethuglican media talked about how in bad shape biden left the us army, and trump went anyway to attack iran.
or zionists said they didn't have tanks or tanks spare parts for a war and the next week they invaded Lebanon.
it's all so tiresome.
>>2877991Linux is simpler than windows when you learn to use it. If I want to install a program I open the console with a keyboard shortcut, type "yay program name" select the one I want and press enter. Compare this to having to open the browser, search for the program, maybe struggle to find a website ot github page, click on download for an exe file, launch the file. And with wine you can do that anyway if you want. Linux is just better.
>>2877894do you think his excitement caused the heart attack?
>>2877991>I think linux fags just want to LARP as leet hacker man so they purposefully make everything needlessly complex so you can feel like a leet hacker just to install or run the simplest programs. brainlet take. most of the time you're just copying some terminal commands but these days people just use installers in .sh like they would on windows with .exe
just use linux mint if you're too retarded to learn stuff.
>Every time they tell me to use Linux, I always ask, but like what is it going to do for me? no forced updates that make everything shittier slower and spy on you, for one thing.
> Glad they're crashing out about Linux being AI based now.what are you even talking about
>>2877991> Glad they're crashing out about Linux being AI based now.it's not though? even if it were you can just keep your old distro and reject updates, unlike windows
>>2877804>Try Jdownloader if you don't want to use github command line nonsense with an actual GUI.you type 5 letters then paste the url you want to download. how is this hard unless you're a phone kiddie who never learned how to touch type
>>2877997>what are you even talking about>>2878001>>>/tech/33738>>2877993>And with wine you can do that anyway if you want.From what I read it's far from compatible with all Windows software.
Anyways enough. I don't care about supposedly privacy bullshit, I'm just a random end user, there is nothing valuable for anything to try to get from my computer. Seems like all you guys do is obsess over privacy, then you find something else is compromised and has some other vulnerability. Nobody cares about whatever stupid furry rule-34 you're downloading, you're not important.
I'm also not trying to make my operating system my whole personality.
Florida Political Prisoner Keegan Quinn is Free // Over 120 days in Jail Over an anti-ICE Facebook Post
After being held in a Florida Jail for over 120 days due to a Facebook post, Keegan Quinn has returned home.
Read on HOUDINI magazine:
https://houdinimagazine.com/articles/2026-07-26-florida-political-prisoner-keegan-quinn-freeKeegan Quinn. Six months in jail over a Facebook post criticizing ICE. The type of repression that's steadfastly becoming normalized in the state of Florida. But he's free. We protested. We advocated. We raised hell, and he's free. And not only is he free, but he's networked. We're networked. It took the effort of over a dozen people from all different angles. Those connections don't go away. That's how it works. One of our people go in, they come out and ten of us are waiting on them. Because if we're not waiting on them, who will be? Who else will be waiting with the grill, burgers and beers ready to go? That's the grillpill in action. If we're not advocating for our people who end up locked up, who will? This is a man who was at Standing Rock, and has spent the last ten years of his life putting in the activist work. And when he went into the jail cell, the state thought he was going in alone. But networks form, people get in touch with each other, late night phone calls happen, articles get written, intel gets shared, letters get wrote and moved between the prison walls.
It hits different when you write an article about someone who's in jail for advocating against ICE. And their mother photocopies that article, prints it out, and mails it to them so they can read it. We are actively pushing beyond the constraints they have binded us with. The shackles they've locked around our arms and ankles. We will break their bondage and we will link arms. That's how we win this game, that's the lock picker's ethos. One of us escapes, we pull another through the hole in the wall. The state might be trying to push every legal button they can to silence us. But with each mouth covered, another three start to scream in solidarity.
https://houdinimagazine.com/articles/2026-06-21-keegan-quinn-veteran-activist-jailed-florida-denied-bondhttps://www.gofundme.com/f/support-keegans-fight-for-free-speech/i>>2878008Shouting matches are retarded. If you're going to go there to disrupt use noise devices instead it's going to be better than shouting.
>>2877991windows updates have become questionably malware
>>2878033did you beat the trial
>>2878028Windows is unquestionably malware
>>2877894>Graham: "Trump and Bibi are like Roosevelt and Churchill"Who's Stalin in this tortured analogy? Xi Jinping?
>>2877803we got bigger problems than wocka flocka flameras
>>2876863>Climate is nothing more than an engineering problemretardmaxxing are we?
>>2876852ballsy of loomer to go to a country where they could be mistaken for transgender and shipped off to the frontline to cower in a bunker.
>>2878070they're pretty directly providing continuous information to the worst parts of the government
pedophile getchan beautiful lady๐๐ฅฐ military vet colonizer dsa dickrider ziomoderator can suck my dick
>>2878077america has like 13 real communists (the messiah and his 12 apostles). the government will only confuse radlibs for socialists and oppress them instead
new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
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>>2878074new thread
>>2878074new thread
>>2878074>>2878065not yet, they extend it and extend it and extend it, and the plantiff keeps missing court, meanwhile I have to check in twice a week for the last 6 months
>>2878084damn. that sucks. good luck.
>>2877869>>2877870>>2877872>>2877874zelensky gets the credit because he's the one overseeing hundreds of thousands of dollars and euros worth of graft every month while sending unmarked vans around to abduct people's uncles to lock them in a bunker on the frontline with basically no training and leave them there shooting at nothing until they die.
If cpusanon was up for it away id put a chain around his fat neck and SMASH his teeth with hammer. And let him give me gumjobs to atone for all his epstein kinds sins and for their ancestor sins.
>>2878005>what are you even talking aboutthat the sheer adrenaline rush of finally bombing Iranian school children caused Lindsey's heart to crap out.
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