President Putin:
>We did not start any war, there is no aggression on the part of Russia.
>We are responding to the actions of Ukraine, which has unleashed hostilities with the support of the West.Previous:
>>2877669Dindu nuffin edition
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
https://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740https://azovlobby.substack.com/https://banderalobby.substack.com/—————————————————–
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>>2893362Considering Ukraine was in a population crisis before 2014, it's not that high.
They are headed to 15-20 million population, with 2/3s of the Kiev controlled areas empty by 2050s, even if the killing and war stops today to the current frontlines. Even if there were peace now they would have hard time getting most of their people back from abroad, because who wants to live in a failed state. They can't attract foreing refugees very easily either to replace anybody. Also they won't have a tax base to fix any of this and they will be up to their ears with debt and military invalids.
>>2893366polish irredentism is total larp, and poland's entire policy towards ukraine thus far has been "let them act as a meat wall against russia" - as is explicitly stated by polish politicians of the mainstream political camps every time they debate foreign policy. due to the oun and later ussr policy, there's not even that significant of a polish minority living there anymore. i don't think that even a nationalist administration would care to go against nato policy or fight a war over ukrainian swamps. there's too many costs involved for very little gain.
>>2893373Bolshevik colour revolution soon comrades.
>>2893372
Interesting how it’s always “cope” until the genocide if Russians begins, then you “anti-campists” gleefully side with the Nazis
>>2893374
The point still stands that many countries other than the US and Russia are multicultural and/or multiethnic.
>>2893369>is total larp>>2893372>zigger copeis it? then explain this:
>>2891535which I can expand:
https://edgp.gazetaprawna.pl/swiat/artykuly/11289301,zelenski-plan-poprawy-wizerunku-ukrainy-w-polsce-relacje-z-warszawa.html<President Volodymyr Zelensky's office has developed an action plan aimed at improving Ukraine's image in Poland. An external PR agency will be engaged to implement it. The plan is part of a response to the crisis in bilateral relations, exacerbated by the May decision to name one of the military units after the Heroes of the UPA.(the plan was leaked to the pole Dziennik Gazeta Prawna)
https://slawa.tv/94835933/dgp-zelenskij-gotu-plan-dlya-pokrashchennya-imidzhu-ukrani-v-polshchi
>The Ukrainian side plans, in particular, to intensify public diplomacy, cooperate with Polish businessmen, experts and the media, as well as disseminate information about the threat from Russia and historical examples of Polish-Ukrainian cooperation.
>According to the publication, Kyiv seeks, first of all, to establish communication with that part of Polish society that has a favorable attitude towards Ukraine.
>A separate direction may be the search for evidence of possible Russian funding of Polish anti-Ukrainian circles.
>Three policy options for Poland
>According to DGP, the Ukrainian authorities considered three scenarios for further policy towards Poland. The option supported by Deputy Head of the Presidential Office Iryna Vereshchuk won. She advocated the active use of public diplomacy tools.
>The second scenario involved passively waiting until the wave of anti-Ukrainian sentiment in Poland subsided.
>The third, tougher option involved taking Polish-Ukrainian disputes to the international level and involving European Union institutions.
>According to the publication, among the possible steps considered was even a complaint against Poland under Article 258 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU in connection with anti-Ukrainian incidents.the reactionary government of ukraine knows what reactionaries can achieve and do. today fringe, as they were in 1991, they can be in 20 years the driving pole force.
that's why zelya is pouring millions, if not millions, of other eu states, into poland to shape their public opinion, idea and relationship through these attempts to rebrand ukraine as something else enterily.
>>2893382>millions, if not millions,if not billions*
>>2893369Again, this is because of Poland's integration into the EU and NATO which for its bourgeoisie is worth abandoning territorial claims over. Had Poland remained independent under the ultranationalism that ultimately supported dropping Communism and breaking with the USSR/Russia, then quite likely its trajectory would match that of Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Yugoslavia, Georgia, etc where hastily agreed borders in 1990 on contemporary lines will be a perpetual red herring for why everything actually got worse after binning decades of economic development for le shock treatment therapy.
I've no doubt the Poles and Ukrainians would have had it out at some point over Lvov.
Like doesn't strike anyone as strange that "Moscow-defined" borders are fine in the EU, but an oppressive tragedy outside of it?
>>2893381And Ukraine isnt multiethnic because they are le nazis?
>>2893386No, they are "le nazis" because Ukraine is multinational already but Banderites don't want it to be.
I'd hesitate to call it multiethic, because I don't believe Russians and Ukrainians are in fact different ethnicities, the struggle between based Gallicians and Moskal orcs is a Banderite invention.
>>2893339>As most national states arename them.
bring a list of most.
for each country, an example, please.
by social studies, no just 'vibes and feels'.
'Most' the UN has 193 member states, I expect no less than 150.
And to be honest the categorisation of ethnicity/race is fucking stupid, because scientifically there is no such thing and we're all Homo Sapiens. But handed over to vibes-based analysis, people will identify identical families from different streets in a town untouched for centuries as different ethnicities, because one family upholds the rhubarb crumble as the symbol of their family's legacy, while the other upholds the apple crumble as their famillial legacy.
>>2893391I asked you social studies for each country where you can point out that a country is an ethno-state. not 'vibes and feels' shit.
and your map isn't even displaying that. dunno what it tries to convey, but I'm sure as hell it isn't 'a map of countries defined as ethno-states by social studies' of some sort.
>>2893336>bitch I do care that ukraine identity will cease to existWhat is this reactionary nonsense? Assimilation and the breaking down of national distinctions through capitalism is obviously progressive no matter the skin color involved, Read Lenin
>>2893391What the fuck is your definition of "national state" where somehow every country in the world doesn't fall under that definition?
>>2893397Lenin advocated for that, provided it was not enforced through violence or privilege. for one:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/3.htm#1>In condemning “assimilation” Mr. Liebman had in mind, not violence, not inequality, and not privileges. Is there anything real left in the concept of assimilation, after all violence and all inequality have been eliminated?second, he saw that as a meaning to obtain socialism. the same way Marx saw that everything must be capitalism to then move forward to socialism.
I am absolutely sure that the erasure of ukrainian indentity in a neolib shithole highly influenced by banderite neonazism will not bring you socialism in any shape or perform. the fuck you talking about? what's this weak-ass readout of what Lenin argued about?
>>2893397>Assimilation and the breaking down of national distinctions through capitalismBut this is precisely what the Ukrainian state is opposed to. I don't necessarily support the idea of Russia annexing everything currently considered Ukrainian, but it'd be a lot closer to that aim than what Banderites want for Ukraine to be.
Clearly the problem is that anti-campists want the point of interest in this conflict to be the invasion, not the 2014 coup and what the ideology installed via that was.
>>2893404Western europe is absorbing ukrainian national identity with every euro invested whether the Banderites like it or not, evidenced by the gay pride marches and jewish president. The colored workers from abroad are only accelerating this progress. This is a preferable state of affairs for socialism yes as opposed to isolationist, nationalist serbia or georgia. The faster specific national culture is eliminated the better
>>2893409>But this is precisely what the Ukrainian state is opposed to. What the ukrainian elite want don't matter. they've never mattered. they dance to euro/american Porky's tune, and that involves economic enslavement. I prefer Russia to win, but there's no doubt an enormous cultural shift happening in Ukraine, one thats demanding international cooperation of capital and labor despite the Banderites wanting to retvrn. That's just not how capitalism works. Perhaps this process would stop when the investment from the west stops but I don't ever see that happening, war is too lucrative
>>2893414>What the ukrainian elite want don't matter. they've never mattered.It matters to the people who are currently being kidnapped off the streets to be cannon fodder at their whim.
I won't answer beyond that statement, you can't claim the elite's opinion doesn't matter where there's conscription.
>>2893414I guarantee you that the ostentatious of operation gladio, also neolibs, won't bring you socialism with the erasure of the ukrainian identity.
and again, it's being done with violence, every time you see one man busified in ukraine, dragged by his 4 extremities, like a pig dragged to a slaughterhouse, you see the violence Lenin didn't advocate for.
>>2893416I mean what is this anon's point? That replacement theory is real and it's good?
Make no mistake, the unification of the world is the ultimate goal, but that's happens because it's logical socially and economically. Not because
>expending all our civilians as cannon fodder is fine because we can recreate the British Raj in Ukraine
>>2893415this war is being fought for western interests. its the wests war more than it is ukraines. the absense of western interests would mean no war. ukraine is a vassal state of the west, marxists know a nation can be vassilized through its ruling class despite being nominally 'independent' on the surface
>>2893416>you see the violence Lenin didn't advocate for.you're falling for the 'historically progressive = morally righteous' meme. marx considered manifest destiny historically progressive even though it was misery inducing. read Lenin here:
>Yes, there undoubtedly is. What is left is capitalism’s world-historical tendency, to break down national barriers, obliterate national distinctions, and to assimilate nations—a tendency which manifests itself more and more powerfully with every passing decade, and is one of the greatest driving forces transforming capitalism into socialism.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/3.htm >>2893424Well if the West's pick was the Euromaidan crowd then perhaps I'd have an entirely different outlook on this conflict. But they picked the Banderites, and if Russia doesn't end them in one way or another, then Banderites are who will prevail long after this conflict stops being tactical/profitable/interesting for the West.
How many decades till victory?
>>2893424I am not falling for anything, I am not taking Lenin out of context like you do. I already know the book of Critical Remarks on the National Question, that's why I pointed out to the same book:
>In condemning “assimilation” Mr. Liebman had in mind, not violence, not inequality, and not privileges. Is there anything real left in the concept of assimilation, after all violence and all inequality have been eliminated?>>2893419Dunno. I was carefully explaining why ukraine lost, I was accused of racism, despite I reject the extinction of the ukrainian identity, despite it's already lost, given the demographics, the language laws zelya signed, and the labor shortage replacement and suddenly we are discussing that Lenin would have applauded what the ukranian government is doing.
>>2893425the irony here is that the Banderites, in a desperate attempt to maintain their Ukrainian supremacy by invading the Russian speaking regions in the east, is ending up undermining it anyway by importing middle easterners and asians to fill in the gaps in society. Ukrainain identity was always under threat, and with that, the Banderites base of support
>>2893436It's not under threat, it's needing to prove itself.
>>2893431>Whoever does not recognise and champion the equality of nations and languages, and does not fight against all national oppression or inequality, is not a Marxist; he is not even a democrat. That is beyond doubt. But it is also beyond doubt that the pseudo-Marxist who heaps abuse upon a Marxist of another nation for being an “assimilator” is simply a nationalist philistine. In this unhandsome category of people are all the Bundists and (as we shall shortly see) Ukrainian nationalist-socialists such as L. Yurkevich, Dontsov and Co.you are a nationalist. marxists reject Cultural-National autonomy. nobody cares about your countries identity. you will be assimilated.
>>2893438we moved from
read Lenin to
Marx rejected.
>>2893437>it's needing to prove itself.bruh what does this even mean. does a screwdriver need to prove itself? all ukraine is is a tool in the hands of the west, and it'll be used until it breaks
<another episode of ethnic nationalist complaining about ethnic nationalist in ukraine
>>2893443Ukraine"s borders have only ever been formalised as a political district within the USSR. When Lenin chose to give the baby of Ukraine its bottle and made it a republic, the "ethinicity" of the region wasn't considered.
It's Banderites who need to prove in the post-Soviet world that Lenin wasn't giving a potentially rebellious baby its bottle. That Ukraine is a distinct, historically recognisable, verifiable
ethnicity within
ALL of the territory it inherited in 1991.
It isn't. So genocidal rhetoric and action prevails, because otherwise they'll lose the borders that are already a humiliation according to the OUN's reckoning.
To dumb it down for Mom and Pop,
Yo if Ukraine has them Banderites or sum such mutherfuckers, then that there NAYTO has a screwdriver they'll have to screw a lot more people than your mom with
>>2893449none of this refutes the idea that Ukrainian identity, like every identity on planet earth, is under threat because of international capital (a good thing). base over superstructure. international capital is demanding ukraine be used to balkanize russia, it was going to happen whether the Banderites wanted it or not and there is no action they could've taken to preserve the ukrainian identity, it was always inevitably going to be absorbed by either Russia or the West. This is the fate of every minority culture as capitalism intensifies. There is NO possibility of ukraine returning to ukrainian supremacy like they had in the 90's, its literally over for the Banderites, they lost the moment Russia crossed the border
>>2893460>none of this refutes the idea that Ukrainian identity, like every identity on planet earth, is under threat because of international capital (a good thing).That'd a chud interpretation and inapplicable to Ukraine anyway because the Ukrainian identity clearly seeks legitimisation.
>>2893460Excellent post.
>>2893461All of these identities are fake and gay including Russian identity.
>>2893461international capital breaking down and smoothing down the differences of identity between workers is good actually. it sets us up for the amalgamation of nations under a single workers polity. dont be a philistine nationalist.
>Marxism cannot be reconciled with nationalism, be it even of the “most just”, “purest”, most refined and civilised brand. In place of all forms of nationalism Marxism advances internationalism, the amalgamation of all nations in the higher unity, a unity that is growing before our eyes with every mile of railway line that is built, with every international trust, and every workers’ association that is formed (an association that is international in its economic activities as well as in its ideas and aims).https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/crnq/4.htm >>2893464Okay but where does Marx or Lenin explain why this is best done under an "internationalist" EU and NATO? If they installed Banderites, then they don't want Ukraine as part of their "project".
>>2893468>Okay but where does Marx or Lenin explain why this is best done under an "internationalist" EU and NATO? why can't it be? and nobody said it was 'best done'
>If they installed Banderites, then they don't want Ukraine as part of their "project".whys that? are you saying the west has no Designs on Ukraine? Have you seen trumps rare earth deposit purchase in the eastern regions yet?
>bots gone wild
What Russian thing exploded?
>The largest metallurgical plant in Ukraine, ArcelorMittal Krivoy Rog, working for the Ukrainian military-industrial complex, announced a partial suspension of production after strikes by the Russian Armed Forces.
>The main production facilities of energy and blast furnace production were damaged.
Largest* after Donbass regions were absorbe into Russia.
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