No.4968
>Be bi man
>fail in all my attempts at relationships with women
>decide to try men
>it works, been in a monogamous relationship for years
>still crave female attention and validation
This sucks
No.4970
>>4969I don't have any resentment toward women though, I'm just a sexually submissive manchild,, most women won't find that attractive, which is why having a top manchild mostly works
No.4971
do demisexuals still fap to porn?
No.4972
In the last thread I saw this post >>305170 and had a question about it >>324459 that got buried: am I mistaken in thinking acceptance and pride are ultimately opposed to each other? Educate me, legbutts
No.4973
>>4972People do take pride in subcultures and identities that are accepted by the mainstream though, don't see how this wouldn't apply to LGBT people
No.4974
>>326492
>Trans people evoke a natural feeling of disgust
Cis men evoke disgust in me (transbian). You are just a majority so you end up, even accidentally sometimes, instituting policies oppressive to us and not caring enough to let us fix them without us having to scream. Your disgust does not matter, keep your feelings to yourself
>>326492
>Transphobia seems justified because trans people demand concessions that only benefit them (a tiny minority) at the expense of the majority
Like what? How does trans people's existence harm cis people? We already exist and the policies oppressing us don't even help you cis people, in fact it makes cis peoples lives harder too, for example
>Cis people sometimes have literal typos in birth certificate but they cant change gender
>Cis people having gender norms enforced against them to avoid appearing trans
>Cis people having trans children and realizing shit's fucked up against us
The institutions oppressing trans people are bourgeois anyway, are you even a communist wanting them abolished?
>>326492
>Because of the difficulty in accepting trans identity, trans acceptance causes group disunity. Transphobia is necessary to regain social cohesion and build solidarity
Okay why was I responding as if this is good faith, you're a fucking retard
>>326492
>Trans people are such a small minority that it doesn't make sense why accepting them is of any importance, considering the costs
Fuck you, there are no costs
No.4975
>>4972>acceptance and pride are ultimately opposed to each otherPride, what does that even mean? Are you talking about pride parades? Anon, there are German pride events it's called Octoberfest, German people are accepted. People can do what they want.
No.4976
>>4974>Because of the difficulty in accepting trans identity, trans acceptance causes group disunity. Transphobia is necessary to regain social cohesion and build solidarityAlso, this is literal fascist vocabulary and ideological talking points. So why are you on leftypol if you can't even recognize this? Not a surprise though, you can't really make a good case for transphobia without injecting fascism, since the institutions used to oppress trans people are fascist/liberal/bourgeois in nature
No.4977
>>4974Also, trans people are apparently such a tiny minority it's not worth giving them rights, and yet they're so contentious that they "cause group disunity" whatever the fuck that means and need to be oppressed in order to "regain social cohesion"? How weak is this social group that trans people are disrupting despite being such a tiny part of the population?
Transphobes are being mentally conditioned by right wing media to care about a boogeyman that's simultaneously such a small minority it's not worth giving them rights, and such a serious issue they're causing national outrages and oppressive legislation to be passed
How about yo keep your transphobic idpol nonsense elsewhere
Worthless fuck
No.4978
>>326492
>I have good reasons
Well then start sharing them.
>1 - placing value in appearance
>2 - "that only benefit them" is false, "at the expense of the majority" lol what expense
>3 - "trans acceptance causes group disunity" - so does transphobia
>4 - repeat for every single group of people, including racial minorities, atheists, anti-capitalists
No.4979
>>4971Is demisexuality a thing that actually exists? Always thought of it as tumblr madeup thing, like pansexual.
No.4980
>>4978 (me)
Fuck off, fragile mod. Leftypol is not your safe space from idiots.
No.4981
>>4980They evoke a feeling of disgust inside you because you were socialized to respond that way, that's not on them
No.4982
>>4980That post never got deleted, only the one they made later saying "transphobia is necessary to allow group unity" and other bullshit which is blatant anti-trans idpol and also obviously untrue
No.4983
>>4980tbh your questions are sort of beautiful in how banal they are when you actually understand human group behaviour. there is essentially no group to which this cannot be applied.
(I was going to retype them all, substituting "Blacks", "Gamers", "Tea drinkers", "Men", etc, but it's not worth the effort.)
>>4982tbh in actually calling it transphobia they stumble on to something true by saying the quiet part loud - active transphobia
is a necessary part of the group-unity of certain groups (like /pol/ mongs and certain kind of "no i'm not a liberal, see, i'm bigoted! don't call me liberal" pseudoleftists currently) it's just that the solution is to wind down these groups and shunt their members into new ones, rather than imagining that their context-dependent norms are some kind of natural, unchanging human eternal.
No.4984
I see some posts were deleted. You need mods to enforce strict consensus on a minor social issue because of how divisive it is. It honestly leaves me baffled why the western left is so determined to sink with liberals on the trans ship.
No.4985
>>4983>tbh your questionsThey're not my questions, jackass. Didn't read.
No.4986
>>4984>You need modsNo-one asked for them.
>westen leftI'm not western.
>sinkExcept the part where they join the worker movement and fight cops. Solidarity works in real space. No-lives on twitter are spectacle that can be safely ignored.
No.4987
>>4980So should we torture you to death as you are only a tiny minority of the population? If not why not?
No.4988
>>4984Cuba and Vietnam are perfectly fine with trans people, it's not a liberal thing
No.4989
>>4987Why the fuck are you even replying to that post.
see
>>4985 No.4990
>>4983>tbh in actually calling it transphobia they stumble on to something true by saying the quiet part loud - active transphobia is a necessary part of the group-unity of certain groups (like /pol/ mongs and certain kind of "no i'm not a liberal, see, i'm bigoted! don't call me liberal" pseudoleftists currently) it's just that the solution is to wind down these groups and shunt their members into new ones, rather than imagining that their context-dependent norms are some kind of natural, unchanging human eternal.This is so well said, reactionaries can often achieve group cohesion around transphobia. Even people who otherwise wouldn't get along. They all laugh along with each other. This kind of pseudo-cultural idpol betrays the poverty of their positions
No.4991
Liberal solutions on every side of LGBT issues are just so bad compared to what could be done.
>gay marriage
>civil unions
>no gays allowed
<all marriage legal status abolition
>trans in public restroom of choice
>trans in restroom of birth sex
>no trans allowed in the restroom
<make public restrooms unisex
<better walls and doors instead of open stalls
<self cleaning restroom
<white noise
<emergency call button like hospitals have
>trans ID change
>no trans ID change
<abolish IDs maybe
<remove sex from IDs
<keep genitalia, hormone levels and chromosomes as medical information for doctors not doctor the records which would be placing trans people in medical danger
>MUH personal idea of proper pronoun usage
<optional but gendered pronoun phase out
<stop caring what pronouns someone uses accepting that there is no consensus
<gender is a spook
>push for modestly effective cross sex HRT and surgery
>force ineffective conversion therapy
<improving diagnostic methods for more accuracy
<provide more options for treatment
<post genderism with reasonable caution for safety
>MUH trans athletes
<it's just a game calm the fuck down
<for pros divide into classes by most relevant information for that particular sport resulting in some overlap between sexes in some classes
<for schools provide options for both mixed and sex divided sports
No.4992
>>326564
>You're right, it's really not worth the effort making such a poor argument. Blacks, gamers, tea drinkers etc. do not make the demands that trans people do.
Which are what? Give us healthcare and stop murdering us, basically. This discourse of trans people demanding all kinds of weird things is based on liberal bourgeois pandering to groups for virtue signaling points, and often literally twitter screenshots of some random trans person acting like an idiot
Trans people aren't even a unified group, that's a part of capitalist disenfranchisement of all groups except the owning class.
No.4993
>>4988Cuba, vietnam, china, pakistan (yes), iran… plenty of non-western non-libtarded places actually
No.4994
>>4991Thanks for this excellent effortpost anon. It's often easy to get brought into the labyrinth of defending these kind of liberal positions since they seem so basic, and yet the more extreme versions are actually much more beneficial to everyone, trans people included, and not even bad requests. They would help cis people.
No.4995
>>4991I believe there is a notable pattern: bandage coping mechanisms for patching up individual symptoms instead of a deeper analysis and removing or replacing the issue that causes the symptom.
Reform instead of revolution, even on a small scale. It's a mindset. It's the same with social issues, infrastructure, environmental issues, economics, politics, everything.
No.4996
>>4984the topic is a discourse black hole dominated by people throwing out social signals indicating their own social milieu and group loyalties. it is to arguing on the internet what meth is to drugs.
and if i look at it with abject cynicism i'd say: enforcing a softly pro-trans position is good for the board because that hard-filters a certain kind of internet cretin, forcing them to either fuck off or learn several object lessons that will make them less cretinous in the future. ("shut the fuck up about transgender people, talk about something else.", "know when to hold your tongue", "someone can be absolutely correct on one issue and a fucking idiot on the other and you're just going to have to deal with that"). no such lessons would be learned if you took the flip-side position of enforcing a transphobic position, since the most egregious liberals don't come here. nor would it be helpful as a recruiting measure, since you'll have more fun spamming soyjaks on /LGBT/ than sitting on the relatively dead /leftypol/ if that's your cup of tea. No.4997
>>326592
>Most people get murdered because they are put in dangerous situations.
Except the part where that's not true, at all.
No.4998
>>4997>Except the part where that's not true, at allGood summary of literally every single reactionary talking point and position
No.4999
>>4984>I see some posts were deleted. You need mods to enforce strict consensus on a minor social issue because of how divisive it is. It honestly leaves me baffled why the western left is so determined to sink with liberals on the trans ship.Minor social issues? Yeah, I'm sure it is minor to cis people who don't care about trans people. Why did you come into this thread if you don't want it to be pro-LGBT? You want this thread to be anti-LGBT? Then how would this be "left"ypol? Retard
No.5000
>>326600
In some states in the US it's literally LEGAL to murder trans women who lie about being trans to guys. It's called the "trans panic defense". So research the topic or SHUT THE FUCK UP.
No.5001
>>4999>Then how would this be "left"ypol? no you don't understand, i'm lefty because of my economic beliefs (which i have no means to actualize, but feel very strongly about, which surely imbues them with meaning), that doesn't mean i have to acquiesce to liberalism by accepting or at least ignoring a minority group. in-fact, since you're going to go around telling people that "leftism" is all about tolerance, now i have to spend all my time talking about how i hate that group because otherwise people might get the wrong idea about myself and my personal identification with an abstract concept.
No.5004
>>5002>>326605oh no, i don't just advocate maintaining an oppressive status quo. if you'd left it alone, maybe i could've done that, but you pushed it. now to effectively counter-signal your liberalism, i have to advocate that we make the status quo worse. nobody's going to take me seriously if i say "communism is socialization of the economy plus constant twitter debates between minorities [cringe] and us guys [based]", no, you're going to have to go. you don't fit in to the picture we're painting. (i gesture to a the twitter profile of a 23 year old "tradcath neoreactionary" who i really hope i convert to my very special version of communism if i explain that although it means abandoning his dream of being the owner of Krupp AG on the blockchain, it does mean he gets to kill you with a Mosin–Nagant.)
(you can't be this retarded, not even ironically) No.5005
I see you're having a fun time crafting these strawmen.
No.5006
>>5004Congrats, you call yourself a "democratic socialist" but you actually just revealed your hand that you're at best a Nazbol who wants to collaborate with fascists to kill LGBT people
KYS
No.5007
>>5004This site should have a live-updating sidebar just for socdem flag's bangers
No.5008
>>326614
The way the guy writes is really fucking hard to read though. Improper capitalisation does not seem like much, but reading it makes my brain give up and just glance across the paragraph to get some sort of meaning out of it.
No.5009
>>4994>>4995I think the problem lies in that so many people get caught up in the culture war because they place so much on themselves as some sort of subgroup identity and want to affirm this identity over actually just taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture of what could be good for everyone and in many cases isn't even a compromise.
No.5010
>>5009Its hard not to when reactionaries threaten violence against us personally for being trans so often.
No.5011
>>5009>>5010And also if you keep track of news in individual states in the US, many are trying to pass all sorts of various anti-trans legislation to make our lives harder. So we have to oppose those very specific measures to get them rolled back
No.5012
>>5010>>5011Yeah I can understand why it gets caught up in a cycle like that but there isn't really anything stopping people while trying to reverse these moves to at the same time push for with help of more non political people who are just sick of these sort of usual politics and even involve those same reactionaries for something more radical yet mutualyy beneficial for all.
No.5013
>>326670
Nobody who has claimed LGBT is bourg has ever been able to back it up with evidence
No.5014
>>5013It doesn't even mean anything. What does "being bourgeois" mean? These people seriously think being lgbt makes you part of the owning class? Then they are clearly not Marxist and are instead doing nonfactual idpol. Are gay children bourgeois too? Do they magically get scooped up by the owning class and converted to bourgeoisie by being given capital? Lmao. Incoherent retards.
No.5015
>>326670
>Mods if we aren’t allowed to mock them it doesn’t belong in siberia
Go ahead and mock, but saying we aren't real, are bourgeois, or you want to kill us etc is not mocking, its polfag reactionary positions. Mocking is saying we have bad taste in clothes or are annoying.
No.5018
who up doing crime
>>4968why do you think you are craving attention from women still?
No.5019
>>326707
yeah i wonder what evidence you have about the homos being fascists or bourgeoisie is based off of.
No.5020
>>5019>memeOfNazisWearingDresses.jpg>pictureOfRetardedUnderageFemboyWearingNaziCostumeTheyBoughtOnline.pngthey have none, I've been waiting for it for years nobody provides
No.5021
>>5020I honestly do think it's just some dumb internet hipster bullshit, like tradcathery.
No.5024
>>5022that looks stupid, just like metalfags when theyre seething about genres, demisexual doesnt seem that practical to use since no one cares about whether or not you like someone sexually before or after getting attached. pansexual is ok because it just mean bisexual because bisexual is a shit term. also thats a stupid pic because pan and demi is not even a comparable term at all going by it, its like "key differences between a fork and a plate."
No.5025
>>5024>no one cares about whether or not you like someone sexually before or after getting attachedIts useful to the people who use the word or else it would die. I'm demisexual. Not like I wanted to be or am mega attached to the word.
No.5026
>>5018>why do you think you are craving attention from women still?I'm still attracted to them and I was socialized to do so, it's not an overwhelming thing thankfully
No.5027
>>49801. Facts don't care about your feelings, snowflake.
2. You made that up. If you think it's "at your expense" to treat people respectfully you are a dumbass.
3. This is because of transphobia not trans people. Listen to yourself: "People having an issue with the trans is causing disunity, so we need more of that to have more unity."
4. Society is measured by how well it treats its lowliest members. The idea that the number of people being small excuses discrimination against them is an utterly poisonous idea.
No.5028
>>4990Reactionaries are usually united by a common enemy. It can be a very effective way to make strange bedfellows. Transphobia unites tradcons and radfems for instance.
No.5029
>>5027>People having an issue with the trans is causing disunity, so we need more of that to have more unityLmao.
>>5028They are both united by being liberals too
No.5030
>>5025how do you know if its demisexuality?
No.5031
>>5030I mean demisexual as opposed to asexual
No.5032
>>326978
I am very pro-trans but this always struck me as very fucked, internet-trans nutcases i have seen send countless death, assult, dox, rape threats at cis women for what are essentially theoretical issues within Feminism.
It's very sad that a few twitter nutcases can create an image that people put on normal trans people but the larger trans rights organizations should have done more to discredit the hysterical nutcases and the biological essentialists in their spaces a long long time ago, they have reaped what they sow.
No.5033
>>326978>>5032How many TERFs have actually been violently assaulted compared to trans people though? Somehow I don't think there's much balance there.
No.5034
>>5033Well, i've seen and been there when terminally online trans nutters have attacked women they defined as TERFS, i've never seen or even heard of the other way around.
(Yet another gay ass idpol false flag from you) No.5035
>>5034Where did that happen?
No.5037
>>5032While I understand where they're coming from to some extent, I agree with you and a lot of this is obviously fueled by people being social media rage addicts. Most people do not have any engagement with feminism as a movement or theory, perplexingly including many trans women. In my opinion we've been done a horrendous disservice by libfem's historical revisionism which has basically erased much of the history of feminism, which has left many trans women lacking in any kind of sense of solidarity with women in general as a class. People instead retreat into petty individualizing tribalism where the outgroup (cis women, esp cis lesbians) are seen as an irredeemable threat and everyone in the ingroup (trans people in general but conveniently this also tends to skew towards being inclusive of some gay men) is seen as mostly being heckin wholesome and perfect and valid. It's really depressing and alienating because it would do many trans women well to have a better understanding of feminism and how much of the theory even by people who supposedly were part of the bad evil second wave (thinking of Dworkin and Wittig) is highly relevant to the transfem experience. Instead we get this tacitly misogynistic oversimplifying nonsense about issues within a complex genealogy of ideas that are only able to be oversimplified because unlike with male thinkers, when women aren't perfectly socially useful they are discarded and demonized.
t. transfem rad/matfem
No.5039
>>5038Are you capable of looking at yourself naked without feeling nauseous ?
Do your genitals upset/disgust you ?
what do you mean by "feel upset and alienated",what does it provoke in you ? tears,anxiousness ?
No.5040
>>326978>>5032the TERF complaint about "death threats" always has the ring of the whining politician about it -
"all i advocated was that the state continue to hurt you with the full force of its power , and i did so in polite language, yet here you are, hurt, saying you'll kill me in very rude terms. how very unkind of you!" generally speaking, the violence of the language a person uses on the internet is inversely proportional to their power to actually affect real change*. the only alteration to this dynamic is the multiplicative force of numbers, which isn't too great a factor when dealing with a tiny percentage of the population.
(here's a fun line: 1500 people telling you to fuck off over the space of a week is worse than 1 person saying they're going to garotte you with a piano wire. that's 9 "fuck off"s an hour! 24hrs a day! for a week!)
* "or their satisfaction with exiting policy." it didn't flow well to put it up there, but this is equally relevant in the current case.
No.5041
>>327150
<TERFS aren’t being told to fuck off
read the post again, carefully, or i'll garotte you with a piano wire.
(i'll probably do that anyway because you replied in that stupid staggered-quote eyesore way, so you might want to wear a scarf.)
No.5042
Ever since coming out as bisexual and being open about it, I've gotten no attention from cis women but a lot of approval from transwomen and non-binaries to the point of sometimes being chased. Not complaining, I just find it amusing and felt like sharing in the thread.
No.5043
>>5022I cant stand the term "demisexual". It comes off as pretentious or naïve whenever I see someone call themselves this because it's giving a special term for something pretty much everyone with any sex drive whatsoever does. Even the most shallow people have standards in behaviour they find appealing or not FFS..
No.5044
>>5043i too hate terms that i arbitrarily redefine to mean something else
No.5045
>>5044Rephrasing isn't redefining. While sure many people would be attracted to someone without any emotions beyond horny but even then most of those people would not date or have sex with such persons. Emotional bonds even the most shallow ones are what gets people excited.
No.5046
>>50381. Go to a therapist
2. Experiment expressing yourself differently. I am cis, but I paint my nails for example. I know it sounds insane, but it took courage to paint my nails for the first time. It is seen as a very feminine thing. Now it doesn't feel weird.
No.5047
>>4995>I believe there is a notable pattern: bandage coping mechanisms for patching up individual symptoms instead of a deeper analysis and removing or replacing the issue that causes the symptom.>Reform instead of revolution, even on a small scale. It's a mindset. It's the same with social issues, infrastructure, environmental issues, economics, politics, everything.(NTA) Because it's generally a toss-up between barely positively effective and very negatively effective at worst or naively infeasible at best (like
>>4991 - if it's a shitpost, props).
1) Revolution is an act of collective self-defense and just as murder is justified only in self-defense so too only can revolution be. I've failed to be convinced that anything about the United States is so harmful or bad to its citizens* that mass violence against anyone is justifiable. It's hardly Nazi Germany. (*Other nations' citizens may be a different story; though a civilian for a civilian makes the whole world extinct.)
2) Even if it were morally and philosophically justified, it's a story that's repeatedly played out through history. Grandiose, ambitious goals; dramatic upheaval and implementation; miserable failure; formulation of grandiose, ambitious goals.
3) I see no inherent issue with capitalism, no matter how much Marxian literature I've read so far. Of course one can envision an evil, dastardly capitalism that plunders other societies in pursuit of wealth, and one can point to them, but obviously one can envision and point to evil communist systems. Humans will always have great capacity for evil regardless of what system they're in.
I'm pro-social in the sense that I think all people should be, no matter what, guaranteed a good standard of living and free healthcare and good wages, and comfortable housing whether they do or don't work a job, and I think discriminatory inequality and bigotry are wrong and unethical, but I've never extrapolated from any of that to "we have to get rid of capitalism; and by force, at that".
All of the most successful and resilient systems in nature and civilization are a balance and dance between two poles. Is it a coincidence the most successful, thriving countries happen to be like this? Of course, the one response, the only and always response is "they stacked the deck, confounder, manipulation, misleading: the capitalist imperialists sanctioned and subverted them the whole time and that is why they economically and politically failed, and the capitalists' history of ill-gotten gains gives them an unfair advantage: 'might makes right' is not a prescriptive way human civilization should conduct itself".
First, just on its face, if you introspect for a little, doesn't this feel vaguely cope-y? Look deep inside yourself and think. Some part of you senses the copeiness. Some part of you observes Nazis arguing about gas chamber door materials or cyanide trace levels or something and recognizes a cope when you see it.
That doesn't necessarily mean it's false, of course. Copeiness is not a fallacy or rebuttal. It's plausible the West really did singlehandedly not only have the economic and military power but the will and the Machiavellian motive to ruin every one of these countries to punish those who would oppose capitalist hegemony and to parade them as examples to the world that socialism doesn't and can't work. Even if that were indeed the case in each example, isn't that itself potentially a little telling? Why are the non-socialist countries so much more economically powerful than the socialist ones? "It was the theft and plunder and fraud and parasitism and conquering!" Of course. This has to be the root of every counter-argument, though, no? "It just is factually right." In your narrative and worldview it feels right and it's very natural to assume it's the case, but how closely have you pored over it? Not just the facts but the way you interface with them. Of course one can identify ways countries have interfered with and harmed other countries, but how much further did you go past "caught redhanded, they're bad, they're the cause, simple as"? More practically, how would you know whether you (or I) were right or wrong about this particular subject? To the best possible approximation, how much better off would they be, in all likelihood, if one eliminates such factors?
Despite not being a leftist (beyond the sense of a woke progressive liberal or whatever) myself, I do fully accept the evil of imperialism, subjugation and exploitation, and particularly capitalistic imperialism, which is imperialistic for the sake of something so devoid of existential value where at least other kinds of imperialists sometimes delude themselves with ideals about some thing or another. But why does any of that mean the only recourse is this alternative based on convenient narrative stacked upon convenient narrative, this cart-before-the-horse attempt at a scientific rationalization for pre-existing philosophical and ideological leanings (not unlike early 20th century German race science forming to codify those pre-existing values)? Why can't you accept "philosophically I am humanistic and respect the value of the life of all humans" and take on a balanced set of judgments on the bedrock of those axioms instead of wrapping it in this cloister? I know your answer is "because it's my view that Marxian theories and ideas are correct", but think about a hypothetical scenario where they weren't correct and how your internal or external actions and thoughts may differ.
The tendency towards critiques of any overarching system, including capitalism, is healthy, but I believe this is an overdose, and often a dangerous one. It leads one to more readily dehumanize others, to always feel like they have an academic, scientific, physical, real grounding for whatever is in their gut, to tend towards blaming external factors for any faults or failures observed or experienced. It's a little bit like being in a religion, just as the far-right inhabit theirs (figuratively and otherwise). I'm not trying to imply any of you are as bad as the far-right but to just maybe increase the potential of sparking recognition of the universal factors that drive humans to pursue ends via absolutist means. Also, I'm aware this post contains no actual arguments and represents just a vague expression of feeling. My intention is not to try to counter-argue but to comment on the structure of this sort of thing as a whole. I could easily write a variant of this post for almost anything, like libertarian cryptocurrency giga-enthusiasts or whatever.
Thank you for reading my blog post.
No.5048
>>5042Smash that trussy/bussy my man
No.5049
>>5034>>5032Cis women are a lot more likely to get attacked by idiot TERFs who mistake them for trans women than they are to be attacked by trans women.
No.5050
>>5049that literally makes 0 sense whatso ever
No.5051
>>5050There have been a number of incidents of TERFs assaulting cis women in bathrooms because they misidentified them as trans.
No.5052
>>5051yeah that doesnt make it more likely lmao
No.5053
>>5052There are no reported incidents of trans people assaulting someone in a bathroom.
No.5054
>>5053i apologize i just realized i misunderstood what your point was
No.5055
>>5049>>5050No it doesnt. Go talk to butch lesbians who get harassed in bathrooms.
No.5057
>>5047What was said that is so infeasable to you and why?
No.5058
Why is this site so infested with anti-trans idpol? Debates about the transhumanist question are incredibly common here. I just want to have healthcare and to live in society as a normal person with bodily autonomy. What's with the fucking pathological obsession, even in here of all places? Pretty much all ML-run states are fine with trans people so I don't see why it has to be such an issue.
No.5059
>>5058>If the anons can't get any trussy, no one will!Or something like that would come out of a deranged contrarian, otherwise default to them being spooked.
No.5060
>>5058The internet in general is just very susceptible to culture war nonsense because it gets likes, retweets, (you)s, and reblogs, which gives the user a cheap dopamine hit. The powers that be have decided to make trans issues the center of the culture war this time around, previously it was rap rock and roll, slasher movies, and other letters in the sexual minority acronym, they can decide to change the focus anytime they want.
No.5061
>>5058It's the result of Petty Bourgeoisie using trans people as their new way of getting people to ignore class conflict.
That, and like 10% of staunch anti-trans people here are repressed. Not that there's anything wrong with that - the modern perception of being trans leaves zero room nor reconciliation for people who want to healthily manage gender dysphoria while still maintaining a semblance of one's AGAB. To most trans women who are super repressed, like me, we're constantly stuck in this state of emotional and mental decay - we feel demanded to instantly socially and medically transition simply because we have a different gender identity than the one that we biologically possess. It's fucking terrible every day to basically be excluded from a group of people who truly understand what you experience firsthand because you don't take estrogen. And please, don't bother gaslighting me into feeling otherwise.
No.5062
>>5058Because the site is full of /pol/ users and it's a way to get attention.
Though I can understand there is some jealousy of what trans people are given in some countries. Im not sure if here but in general. Like trans people in some places get their medically induced transitions covered but everyone else isnt covered for similar procedures even in caseswhen as much a psychological much need or desire for them. For example surgery to remove breast tissue in males from gynecomastia, or breast reduction in females with massive tits to point it's basically a disability, or breast implant in flat women, or a cis person to get same sex HRT if their hornone levels are low, or a man with a micropenis needing enlargment surgery. So there isn't always a need for trans specific healthcare coverage as much as for people in general that covers trans people along side cis people. The problem arises in part from treating them as a special social class of their own whether it's for them or against them. I think some people wouldn't hate on trans people so much if this coverage divide wasnt there.
No.5063
>>5062Show me the evidence please, most countries have no trans healthcare above anyone else. And yeah, maybe these poltards are seething micropenis owners, but I doubt that's actually a reason for it substantially
No.5064
So where do I move when Ron DeSantis passes the bill defining "public transgenderism" as a federal sex crime in burgerland in 2025? Is there anywhere that's both easy to get a visa to as an American and where transhumanists won't be killed? Would anywhere offer asylum?
No.5065
>>5064Political asylum in Cuba.
No.5066
>>5065Would they really? I know it would be a funny stunt for Diaz-Canel to take in a bunch of refugees from America but under existing Cuban laws moving from America to Cuba is really hard and probably for good reasons.
No.5068
>>5067The homofascism stuff is mostly just a thing with repressors who fetishize masculinity and self-loathing gay men. Rohm got purged pretty early on and most modern fascists are completely obsessed with breeding women with large breasts in wheat fields. No homosexual with sufficient self awareness and acceptance is going to be a fascist.
No.5069
>>5068they tend to hate women though, they only respect women inasmuch as they're subservient to men if not just fleshlights and wombs to propagate the race.
No.5070
>>5067can't take that book seriously written by some christcuck pastor
No.5071
>>5069Most healthily well-adjusted homosexuals aren't fascists for the simple reason of self-preservation, as fascists tend to be virulently homophobic. Misogyny is far more pervasive among heterosexual men, because they have a libindal stake in the outcome. The prototypical fascist incel becomes a misogynist because he resents women for not fucking him, and demands their submission to satisfy his sexual urges. Some homoeroticism with military aesthetics and the glorification of the masculine body exists in fascism, which will appeal to the repressor, but the glorification of the masculine body isn't unique to fascist art. Soviet art of muscular proletarian men embracing to signify Soviet-Chinese solidarity is a million times gayer.
No.5072
>>327618
>When every post they make is about UwU trans rights or their sexual orientation it does
i deliberately entered a thread full of things that i do not like, and now i am mad. how could this be happening to me??
presumably, we might also condemn the need to have a /leftybritpol/ or /usapol/ thread on the site at all times as nationalist idpol, and we might as well just shut down /hobby/, /tech/, /games/, /anime/, /music/, /draw/, /akm/ and /roulette/ right now if "you can find this on reddit" is to be our criteria.
worst-and-foremost, your fears are unfounded. this site could actively set out to recruit the most obnoxious people from reddit and twitter and the result would still be a culture nothing like either of those sites. the basic underlying structure of an imageboard with the option of anonymity simply cannot support it.
there's a post to be made about how in the purest sense this is petty idpol on your part - our ingroup of based channers against their outgroup of twitter-tumblr-reddit-9gag-ebaumsworld-gamefaqs outsiders, but i'm too lazy to make it.
No.5073
>>327658
>That was an example of things you can say in other threads but not in this thread
Oh no, I'm so fucking sorry you're being so oppressed that in the LGBT thread you apparently can't come call us degenerates. Why do you want to? This board sucks for people like me because of people like you. Apparently simply "being trans" is enough to justify you shit talking me and I have to be quiet? Go fuck yourself you stupidass cismoid poltard
>>327658
>That was an obvious joke in response to him telling me to kill himself, I essentially affirmed that he’s truly turning into a woman
I am a woman, KYS
No.5074
Can we get a containment thread for people complaining about and debating gays and transhumanists that isn't also the main gay and transhumanist chat thread? This just goes in loops and shits up thread quality.
No.5075
>>5074such a containment thread would serve only as a puppy farm for undesirables.
but one could impartially note that such posts "are likely to create pointless and unconstructive arguments about ‘idpol’"
No.5076
>>5075I just want somewhere that isn't halfchan /lgbt/ or reddit that doesn't get constantly shit up by reactionary idpol bullshit. Somewhere with communists. Is a functioning thread for communists who happen to be transhumanists too much to ask for?
No.5077
oh and, since some sophist is doubtless hunt-and-pecking their away away at this point: no, simply posting about being gay, trans, etc, is not
primarily likely to start such an argument, whereas replying with a barrage of bigoted buzzwords
only serves that purpose.
>>5076not too much to ask for, and oddly for something communist-aligned, not too much to deliver. let's see.
No.5079
>>5076Any communist who holds irrational hatred of people for being trans or LGBT based on false information they read from capitalist propaganda sources is a communist who needs to self crit a lot and figure out why exactly they're so dedicated to propagating right wing idpol against segments of the proletariat so much
No.5080
>>327689
>i deliberately entered a board full of people that i do not like, and now i am mad. how could this be happening to me??
Not everyone on leftypol is transphobic that's why mods delete your shit tier right wing anti-LGBT idpol, retard. I am a communist and I like communists. And it's not that they are people that "I do not like" it's that they are people who do not like me, for no particular reason they are even capable of describing in legitimate detail with legitimate reasons, instead repeating /pol/ tier transphobic talking points. You're a dumbass
No.5081
>>327689>>5080When it gets to the point where people are defending /pol/ arguments even using /pol/ fascist vocabulary (calling LGBT people "degenerate") then clearly you are in the wrong. Go to /pol/ if that's what you want to do.
No.5082
>>327706
Would you get the fuck out of this thread if all you're going to do is come argue with people about nothing? What substance is there in your bullshit post? This thread is already relegated to /siberia/ and yet it can't escape retards shitting it up
No.5083
>>5079aptly put, any communist doing that shit is either not one or a waste of one
attacking gay people does nothing to capital
No.5086
>>5084Her underwear is visible, she should cover herself up.
No.5087
>>5086she's in doors mate.
No.5088
>>5087No excuse to be indecent.
No.5089
>>5022What does demisexuality have to do with sexuality at all, lots of people me included don't want sex without an emotional bond but that doesn't really have any bearing on who you're attracted to. Demisexualism isn't a sexuality.
No.5090
>>5089Likewise I don't think asexual should be considered a sexuality rather it should be considered on a scale of sexual desire ranging from asexual to sexual to hypersexual.
No.5092
>>5091also minority class collaborationist movements are just fascism for the poor
No.5093
>>5091>who probably only transitioned to avoid murder chargesIsn't this transphobic? I'm not sure but I often see trans people saying that it's transphobic to suggest men may transition for ulterior motives like peeping in women's bathrooms, getting into female prisons etc.
No.5094
>>5093celebrities get to do things that nobody else can get away with. me transitioning to escape a conviction for crime would probably not work compared to someone like them.
No.5095
pls talk about gay stuff, i've always been interested in what a gay chat looks like
No.5097
>>328286
>Because the left doesn't seem to care about pedos, for some reason.
the pedo obsession shit is a mixture of anglo moral panic bullshit and
>muuuuh criminals!!
bullshit, the left has no reason to care about it.
don't get me wrong, pedophilia is still terrible, but there's no point in focusing on it more than other forms of crime, and more often than not it's just a way to attack people you don't like by calling them the pedo buzzword. gays? pedo. troons? pedo. weebs? pedo. hot dog salesmen? definetly pedo, fucking shoot them
No.5098
>>328307Unfortunately far too many M-Ls want to pretend that the mid-20th Century was correct and should be repeated, never mind the advances and discoveries that have been made since then. Never mind that Gorky's take was ultimately mistaken. Never mind that historically, the Nazis considered homosexuality to be a severe crime.
<TROT! ULTRA! LIBERAL!Before anybody starts launching the thought-terminating cliches because I dared criticize M-L, I'm just as pro-AES as you are.
>>5097Don't forget QAnon.
No.5099
can't we all just get along? :(
No.5100
>>5099Unfortunately, some people just seem to want to start conflict for the sake of it.
No.5103
>>5098>Gorky's take was ultimately mistaken.gorky wasn't being serious probably, he was just calling them faggots
No.5104
>>5099No. Gorkyposters were given free reign for years. You can't just say lol lets get along now, it doesn't work like that.
No.5105
>>5101Why is that egoist orgy so hilarious to me right now…
>>328271I already did talk about the topic and multiple people agreed. See
>>4991 though I doubt it's exact same thing you're thinking about but maybe there is overlap.
No.5106
>>5104We need more equally shit posters, as reparations
No.5107
>>5104I don't understand… what's a gorky?
No.5108
>>5102Clearly true, and even goes beyond lgbt to simply single women living alone, I.e Caliban And The Witch.
No.5109
>>5103What does it matter when people take his words unironically and use them to justify kicking LGBT people out of orgs?
No.5111
i had a queer bait dream, about dragons and rdj and a fake trailer they made for a movie that doesn't have a scene with shirtless men, it was a doc about how they did that to increase audience ratings
the wild part is i'm not gay, why was i having a dream about this? capitalism is entering everywhere
No.5112
>>5107Alexei Maximovich Peshkov, popularly known as Maxim Gorky, was a Russian writer and socialist political thinker and proponent. He was nominated five times for the Nobel Prize in Literature.
No.5115
>>5114they really are. they love to hate on pride parades and
>muh desmond was a popular buzzword a while back but they don't really give a single shit about child beauty pageants in red states
i'm kinda wondering how many 70 y/o grandpas googled hentai after watching 2 tucker specials in a row about it though
No.5116
>>5115I would much rather have them spending their time playing Taimanin Asagi over any irl political activities
No.5117
>>5115If they cared about child exploitation as much as they claim they would be storming the churches and hanging the priests.
No.5118
>>5114They think a little horny is bad for kids but they're awfully silent about bullying.
In fact, alot of them think bullying is good.
No.5119
>>5118Not just bullying but full on physical and emotional abuse advocacy.
No.5120
>>5119yeah its fucking insane
These people are deranged psychopaths
No.5121
>>5118>>5119Yeah they tend to believe in physical punishments. Reminder that spanking is sexual in nature.
No.5122
>>5114I wouldn't say it's "the conservatives". Honestly, I'm very just opposed to that type of thinking. All of the homophobia virulently shown by working class "Conservatives" are just from pundits they (Justifiably) turned to, pundits which grifted on class conflict that started to come to a front with OWS, class conflict between neoliberal Petty Bourgeoisie.
90% of all ridiculous shit from "right-wingers" is directly from the news. News that doesn't report ground-up ideology and thought. Tucker did not go to Bumfuck, Alabama and ask everyone's opinions on massive tit lady.
No.5123
>>5122Fair point. That's why I never conflate conservative with right wing.
If liberal and left ate separate things, then so are right and conservative.
In fact, conservative is a relative term.
And we all know right wing pundits are rich kids to begin with.
No.5124
>>329595
god i'm really fucking glad that i'm not a trans kid in america. it's such a shithole, i don't know how libs bring themselves to care about vooting for the dems every election season when they can't even federally crack down on this bullshit. how hard is it to throw the peasants some crumbs by making sure that you can't do the most comically evil things imaginable
No.5125
>>5124Is my browser messed up or was the past day of this thread deleted?
No.5126
>>5125I literally posted an article about recent US legal changes banning transition in Florida and the post got deleted. Wtf.
No.5127
>>5126A rangeban against the child porn spammer took effect. It mightve deleted your old posts or something.
No.5130
>>5129>3rd picAlmost mistook that for the "boys being feminine doesn't make them trans" dogwhistle I've seen some transphobes use.
No.5131
>>5130>boys doing girly things or wearing girl clothes doesnt make them transI dont know why they insist on saying that considering the fact that if they ever saw a guy with long hair and a dress on they'd automatically assume he was trans and start harassing him.
No.5132
>>5131It's a different group of people that say this though, mainly terf-adjacents who don't want people finding out that they're trans.
No.5133
>>5129Men used to be emotionally intimate with each other until the 1950s/60s with the Red Scare and Lavender Scare.
No.5134
Main board fillen with transphobia and homophobia again
No.5135
>>5134/siberia/ should just get its own website
No.5136
>>5135It's gross how the mods allow it
No.5138
>>332518
Kys transphobic
No.5140
I discovered myself as gay when I was 12 and actually accepted it pretty normally, and never ever touched a girl in my life, any other gays here that had the same experience?
No.5141
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1251679.html#1255398Disgusting anti-LGBT idpol thread allowed in leftypol apparently but the LGBT general has to be in siberia
No.5142
>>5141I talked about this yesterday and one of their freaks came to spew their hateful garbage here
No.5143
>>5140Same, but I fingered two girls to fit in. Also went to the strip club and got a lapdance. Also made out with several girls, before and after coming out. Eg made out with a girl friend a month ago for shits and giggles.
I'm really envious of young people who can come out really young. Growing up in a conservative society really fucked me up but thankfully I've learned to unlearn a lot of it.
No.5144
>>5143I feel so bad for gay guys whom are introverted and never came out.
Not just because of fear of persecution, but rather because there's no one there for you.
No.5145
>>5142Not as bad as 8chan doomer.
A bunch of melancholic neoboomers with premature midlife crisis.
No.5146
>>5140Unironically, I had a fucking shit time accepting myself, hell, I still am.
So basically, I had pretty much every sign of femininity shamed out of me. That's always a good start, isn't it? Yelled at as a little kid for painting my fingernails with washable markers, generally disliked by family as a weird kid.
Anyways, age 14 comes around. I lose my virginity by fucking some chick at my middle school. Eventually high school comes around, idpol floods in with the end of Trump's term, and I begin to become a really hateful cunt - especially as the "femboy" thing becomes common. I become your classic online edgelord, marauding different shitty fbi.gov servers calling everyone a pedophile and an aids-positive faggot, so on and so forth. This is in spite of the fact that I felt nothing for any woman in my school, and I developed a bit of a crush on some guy in my autoshop class and my fucking councilor who was at least 20 years my senior.
Eventually, a few months ago, I listened to Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon, and became rapidly more accepting of myself. Maybe it's because I also graduated that year, and I moved out of the ghetto, but yeah. I still have trouble accepting myself. I still hate myself for being the gay kid every now and then, and I feel massive imposter syndrome because I still think 90% of gay people sucked at least one dude off in their car by the time they were 16.
No.5147
>>5146Sounds like you care a lot what other people think or do by certain ages. You should take some time to focus entirely on yourself in a way that's sheltered from all outside concepts and come to a better understanding then take it out into the world with you.
No.5148
>>5146>I become your classic online edgelord, marauding different shitty fbi.gov servers calling everyone a pedophile and an aids-positive faggotlol why do all wokescolds go through this phase? Stuid hypocrites.
No.5149
>>5148im not a wokescold though
No.5150
>>333339
I was molested and sexually harassed by nearly a dozen women throughout my childhood and none of them wee trans.
No.5151
>>4977>such a tiny minority it's not worth giving them rights, and yet they're so contentious that they "cause group disunity" whatever the fuck that means and need to be oppressed in order to "regain social cohesion"? How weak is this social group that trans people are disrupting despite being such a tiny part of the population?The real question is, are le transhumanists uyghurs or russian saboteurs?
No.5152
Because all of your people keep using homophobic slurs, my sister came into my room while i was browsing this site, and now she probably thinks im a homophobe too.
I hate this obsession imageboards have with using the f slur
No.5153
>>5152>I hate this obsession imageboards have with using the f slurWhen you're an edgy teenage trying to fit and eventually just fuck up your already stunted lowbrow vocab for the next decade.
I still get annoyed at racial slurs but homophobia was so normalized even in the mainstream fairly recently
No.5154
>>5146You'll get better. I suggest getting a psychoanalyst if you can afford it. Gays come in all shapes and sizes, but at the end most of us grew up in homophobic environments.
No.5155
>>5152Were you eating chicken nuggets too?
No.5156
Hmm grappling with the recent trad resurgence on Twitter - as mostly a lurker - related to infrared and magacomm. I agree, especially during periods of actual revolution, that politics on identity need to be tossed aside because there are more pressing matters at hand but for movement building I find the derision towards lgbt people pretty revolting. Am I just being sensitive? I'm gay and largely agree with gender takes so it has a tendency to feel like a personal attack - I would physically fight people over this shit if it was an irl party.
It seems like these trad types, often religious, have no problem aligning their preferred lifestyle with the real movement of communism (communism is conservative nonsense) but everyone who basically isn't a straight man or happy to birth their children is 'not normal' a 'deviancy/decadence' and should be considered a secondary interest.
This has the obvious potential of justifying actually very backwards and male-dominated relationships while putting everyone outside that under an unfair critical lens. It wouldn't be the first time gay comrades have had to attend a struggle session over their supposed decadence. All this said the woke crowd often aligned with the interests of the democratic party is the most hostile towards any sort of real organizing and should be discarded with as well.
I guess I'm a centrist now.
No.5157
>>5148Bro he was like 15, half the kids who grew up in the digital age had this phase
No.5158
>>5129referring to 2nd pic
a big reason I like greek epics and tragedy is because of how massively homoerotic it even when it's not explicit. A good chunk of the illiad are the men just admiring the other men in their party for being brave/smart/hot/muscular etc - everyone rides Odysseus' dick constantly.
The men had pretty horrible views on women ,respect was only towards their male comrades, but I can't help but think the society was just really a fun time for people who engaged in homosexuality.
No.5159
>>5156No i fully agree with you, i find woke idpol completely unproductive and alienating to the very peoples it tries to help (consequence of being a bunch of tumblr ideologies made by 15 year olds). I probably dislike this conservatism communism even more tho, even if i liked at first as a reaction against stupid idpolism that had taken too much place.
But now it just feel like a RW psyop they only talk about real communist theory when they try to say gay/trans/feminist are evil bourgeois and the rest of time they just dickride any rightoid and get hooked on every culture war of them and start saying shit about how Ron Paul libertarians and small government is the true gommunism… well it's just a RW "movement" with a red coat of paint at this point.
No.5160
>>5156>a centrist Nah, just a normal non-insane communist.
These "trad" types are "aesthetics > substance". If identity issues are to be set aside, it should never be to appease these reactionary communists, but to use their manpower. Same as these democratic-voting right wing communists. That said, IRL, meaning, not on Twitter, disc0rd, imageboards, twitch, etc, being bigoted against LGBT people, tolerating it from comrades, or tolerating it from organizations your org might collaborate with, very rarely if ever serves any purpose. So this idea of "putting it aside" doesn't really pan out IRL. The people pushing it usually have done no organizing, and/or have strong anti-social traits (that are way more off-putting than anything LGBT) and these anti-social tendencies inform the quasi-anti-lgbt stance.
No.5161
>>5160> anti-socialthats a good point, Haz is a huge sperg which is why he's such a theorycel. I really like (some) of the newish ideas of appealing to the maga crowd while pointing out where there own material analysis falls short (immigrants bad etc) so I am interested in this idea of manpower. At the moment I'm just observing from the sidelines, if the cpusa takeover actually happens I might have more interest.
No.5162
>>5037relevant just ordered Dialectic of Sex because someone was telling me the book puts forth the idea of artificial wombs as solving the whole thorny unequal natural divide between men and women. Seemed interesting as I've always been a big fan of moving pregnancy outside of people's bodies.
No.5163
>>5161By anti-social I don't mean "shut in", a-social. I mean anti-social. Anti-sociability is the most fertile soil for right wing ideology.
No.5164
>>5163I'm not sure I agree, Mark Fisher already pointed out that a lot of the cancel culture in 2013 has this air of anti-sociability and that's a critique a lot of the conservative comm crowd has adopted. I'm really not interested in strawmanning their ideas as I've said (not that you are) because a lot of my interests in lowering the work week and the US state overlap with there own.
I really don't think it's fair to just call it right wing ideology or whatever and be done with it - certain sects like the larouche camp are guiltier of this than others though. These are honest to god tradcaths reading Volume 3 - sometimes having a deeper understanding than my own - who just have rather prickly points regarding gender ideology or whatever.
No.5165
>>5164Like it's just surreal to be in a chat with one talking about Postone, and then be told that he thinks anything that isn't a catholic marriage is 'debased' and he sees communism as promulgating these essential gender divides.
No.5166
>>5165like bro I read the Marquis de Sade in my free time, I don't even know where to start other than hard disagree and fuck you.
No.5167
>>5166Similarly there are _many_ MLs who still parrot this whole gay thing as decadence, it must be secondary, procreation is the material basis of social bonds (lol) which is a pain in the ass to deal but outside this myopic viewpoint are very committed to everything I am interested in.
No.5168
>>5164Radlib SJW shit is a fertile soil of right wing ideology as well. I probably don't need to point to examples. I'm not necessarily saying they are right wing. I am saying that their anti-social tendencies tend to come accompanied with right wing ideology, which is sometimes easy to identify, such as esotericism, aesthetics over substance, etc.
>>5167Where are these MLs outside the internet? Where are they organizing? Do they organize or are they insulated in party forums and LARPing? Disc0rd MLs are irrelevant, not even worth mentioning.
No.5169
>>5168i mean all the local ml groups in america are dem platformers. I see what you are saying but I respectively want even less to do with those people.
No.5170
>>5169Local chapters vary widely in "quality". Are you sure your local organizations are trash? There is no perfect org. If you're serious about doing shit, then you have to work with the local labor movement and shape it into a proper ML org, with proper political formation (education), and organization.
No.5171
>>5161every time that strat has been attempted historically it fails, appealing to reactionaries always requires an approach from a submissive stance like when you see Haz go to MAGA rallies and all of the sudden he isn't an alpha male tough dude and has his neck hunched and shit
No.5173
>>5146>least one dude off in their car by the time they were 16.Bruh I literally lost virginity at 22 with some random dude from grindr
No.5174
>>5172Is there anything like this that isn't a hammer and sickle
No.5175
>>5172Nice. o7 comrade. Also trippy
No.5176
Is so sad that the /lgbt/ thread has been placed in /siberia/ here. we were wrongfully punished and oppressed within the context of the rise of barbarism within the middle east and the spread of middle eastern religion into europe. so many people, even professed communists, are unable to read between the lines in same sex attraction and transgenderism and see nothing more than a "nothingburger," as the soviet union's delegation to the first transgender clinic in germany said, "nothing scandalous really"
sad really isnt it
>>5172based
No.5177
>>5176these people who profess to be communist but against "the transhumanists" or whatever have never looked at photos of german socialists where were about as frilly and soycucked as we are in general
No.5178
>>5177if anyone in 2022 identifies as "transhumanist" near you, they are absolutely neoreactionary and you should try to kill them
No.5180
>>5178"transhumanist" is a wordfilter for transhumanist on this site
No.5181
>>5180Thanks for clearing that up.
No.5182
>>333912
do you know what the rise of barbarism is?
No.5183
>>5182Is it when middle eastern barbarians invade the garden of yurop? That's what
>>5176 is saying.>>5176
No.5184
>>5183Which is very funny because Euro pagans, especially Nordic ones weren't friendly to homosexuality at all from my understanding
No.5185
>>5112he also liked to rant about how fascism was homosexual and so homophobic communists use him to dogwhistle that they want to kill LGBT and exclude them from the movement. they also use him to dogwhistle that LGBT are all liberal glowies and can't possibly be socialists.
death to fascism
death to liberalism
death to imperialism
death to NATO
death to Banderites
I love my LGBT comrades
No.5186
>>5183christianity was introduced to europe by romans, like white slavers and imperalists; I am talking about the particular historical rising of barbarism within a specific region and how it was butterfly effect'd into homophobia being common worldwide. Homosexuality and transsexualism are ridiculously common where it is not oppressed
No.5187
>>5186considering that you misunderstood the term "barbarism" you should go back to reading your theory, specifically engels origin of the family and private property if you want to understand the developments of these things
No.5188
>>5185I agree its not 2014 anymore with SWJs on Tumblr the greater threat is coming from the reactionaries infiltrating the left, not lgbt comrades or transhumanists
No.5189
Leftypol is cannoically queer. Seems like everyone and their mother here are bi, even the gays and lesbians are bi. And seems like nearly everyone is non-conforming in one way or another.
The transphobe/homophobe retards (a small, yet loud minority) are also non-conforming anti-social basket cases, but cope by being transphobic/homophobic. Don't cut them any slack. They need to be dominated, subdued, and kept on a tight leash.
No.5191
>>5190because they want an "ethical" justification to dislike lgbt peoples
No.5192
>>5190they are duginites and reactionaries from /pol/
No.5193
>>5190Why was this board suddenly flooded with this Ukraine shit?
No.5194
>>5192i hate NATO but I also hate these assholes so much
No.5195
>>5193/ukraine/ is leaking
No.5196
>>5195i disagree, /ukraine/ megathreads are not usually as reactionary as the weirdos posting in the meme thread in siberia. I think /pol/ is raiding both the ukraine megathread and the siberia meme thread. Because they're posting "globohomo" type memes and trying to pretend the azov battalion is jews. the ukraine megathread at least mostly tries to talk about multipolarity and just has an anti-NATO vibe most days
No.5197
>>5196i know but its guys i usualy spot on /ukraine/
No.5198
>>5190>globohomoOn the internet you don't know who you're talking to. When someone uses "globohomo", you can just immediately write them off since they are using right wing slang/memes. No, they are not a communist. This applies pretty often.
No.5199
>>5194can't stand both. I work with a lot of east Europeans so they're all muh NATO muh Ukraine, muh nationalism, and we got this new guy who's Z-Gang, but turns out i'm fairly sure he's some type of Duginist nationalist because he's muh pan-slavic orthodox brotherhood and hates gay. I just want NATO to lose
No.5200
>>5190If you want things to change you should stop supporting LGBT pride parades and other rainbow capitalist movements.
No.5201
>>5200Nice individualist idealism. If we want to stop being targeted by people pretending to be communists we should individually "stop supporting" (what does supporting even mean?) "rainbow capitalist """movements"""" as if these are movements to begin with. You need to stop reading Cockblast when it comes to his retarded LGBT takes. No, that wouldn't change shit.
No.5202
>>5201Cockshott (kinda) has a point but people run with it. There has been a real effort to replace equating progressive politics with socialism to replacing it with identity politics. The idea that going to a pride parade or believing that a child can learn about transgenders is somehow apart of this agenda is just nonsense though.
I do feel somewhat bad for more conservative leaning people too, even though I hold them in mild contempt, because modern life does make it extremely difficult to have and raise kids because of the high cost. And that's an element of society that is given far less attention than lgbt speaking points.
No.5203
>>5201Stop calling yourself LGBT and waving rainbrow flags. Stop talking about ru paul and other drag shit. Stop talking about gender spectrums and telling people to use made up pronouns. Just stop associating yourself with the whole clown charade spectacle and you will find nobody actually hates you. It's so obvious.
(USER WAS SHOWN RE-RUNS OF RUPAUL FOR THIS POST) No.5204
>>5203No you just want to repress us and hold us in contempt. Quoting Shakespeare, 'To thine own self be true, thou canst not then be false to any man. '
No.5205
>>5204If you can't let go of those things then nobody can help you. I tried.
No.5207
Saw picrel and thought of you leftypol 🥰
>>5203>you queers should go back to how you were like when everyone hated you and you were actively hunted by police and thugs, this way, we won't hate youNah, fuck you, reactionary piece of shit. We will hold anal fisting parades in your name just to see you contort yourself intellectually. Go back to /pol/.
No.5208
>>5203You're a fucking idiot. I've never waved a rainbow flag in my life. I'm not even sure who Ru Paul is and I've never even watched any "drag shit". I don't use neopronouns. I don't "associate myself with anything" and there is no "clown charade". And people hate me and threaten to kill me simply for being trans. You're naive and know nothing about this. Retard
No.5209
>>5207More shit.
Reminder Lady Gaga's "born this way" is ultimately a liberal notion. You aren't "born this way", we simply are and queerness is imposed on us, implying that we are born different. Nah brah, we are born like everyone else, it is society that holds the queerness.
No.5210
>>5207Even my therapist would say how I benefited from male privilege and don't understand how badly women have it or something when I was transitioning. Sure, theoretically I did. But I wanted to die daily because of being male. I had no privilege and yes I did get called a faggot and bullied for being male. If I had been born a girl I'd have had way more privilege - the privilege of being cis and not wanting to kill myself for being male.
No.5211
>>5210Jesus…. that sucks… get a different therapist for Christ's sake..
Well, if it makes you feel better, I understand what you are saying. I hope you find the strength to overcome. Anything that makes us slightly un-optimal for capital will be used to disadvantage us. It is a brutal system and we all feel unfairly disadvantaged, even if some of us are more or less disadvantaged. For liberals to even acknowledge the implications of such an observation is imposible. You will find your way, but you need to build that way every day with the small and habitual actions that will lead you to where you want to be.
No.5214
>>5213I've been through this rigmarole with them for years and was also once on the wrong side of things and needed convincing; they will claim that you are merely mistaken and that your desire for "recognizing difference" is the equivalent of "being in the way of left unity". All while they continue to employ reactionary dogwhistles in your presence and imply that your very existence is a problem. It's very tiresome and I'm sorry it happens.
No.5215
>>5213based. Imagine thinking you can wage a proletarian class struggle without understanding the unique issues facing each segment of the proletariat so that you can understand, fix, and move beyond them.
No.5216
>>5214Not only that, it's a great example of liberalism (a lack of full comprehension of class struggle and class unity) results in fascism (the desire to label certain types of people as a problem which needs to be eliminated in order to achieve a false unity). These libs need to self reflect and realize they are literally pushing the same anti-LGBT positions as fascists always did. No, a meme of some Nazi party members wearing dresses does not counteract the camps employed against LGBT proles by fascists.
No.5217
>>5215This seems to be the conservative drive within parties to identify who is and isn't a worker - and not just in terms of figuring out which industries are most likely to reduce surplus value extraction like strikes in the shipping industry - they then claim that these trve proletarian being close to the means of production and understanding material reality better are not mesmerized by the spectacle of lgbt politics or whatever. This is of course completely unfounded and just stated as a fact that must be true.
Most recently infrared published a patsoc essay which reiterated this very old party line - it's been a favorite dogwhistle of MLs for years before being recently abandoned by most. The result is obvious chauvinistic male politics are pushed into the forefront as being a natural consequence of materialism or whatever (nonsense) at the expense of literally everyone else who is just practicing identity politics and deserves a struggle session.
We should at all times point out that this chauvinism - often rooted in religious values - is actually idealism and that nature permits everything not just the interests of straight men.
No.5218
>>5216Well said.
I love this meme template because it's hot and it triggers the lib communist's defense mechanism (and a semi erection).
No.5219
>>5217>We should at all times point out that this chauvinism - often rooted in religious values - is actually idealismHow do we combat it though? It seems that this liberalism is deeply rooted in all these "muh PMCs!" types, patsocs, and the new wave of vulgar anti-imperialists who uncritically support anti-imperialist countries political leadership. It often feels like its the same people, like they understand the economic basis forcontemporary politics, but nothing else.
There's also the aspect of anti-social behavior in many of these people. As well as people desperate to find something that gives them meaning and a sense of belonging.
If we want to tackle this IRL, we need to find ways to mitigate the issues that make people like this.
Here though, yes, we need to combat them at every turn and explain why they are wrong, relentlessly.
No.5220
>>5217>not mesmerized by the spectacle of lgbt politics or whateverHilarious considering they are the most mesmerized by it, consuming its media expressions and believing them wholeheartedly due to a lack of direct experience with LGBT people or with being LGBT. In some cases, literally the most vulgar and obvious media expressions, like the anon who thought it made any sense to bring up RuPaul, apparently a TV show host, and expose their misconception that this person has anything to do with LGBT people rather than being a bourgeois TV host.
No.5221
>>5210male privilege has absolutely zero weight in the life of trans women
No.5222
>>5219I think the answer is to just be better read than them, it means actually reading le ebil queer or feminist theory. Realizing that mamy queer theorists (the good ones at least) we're fierce Marxists just like Firestone built her Dialectic of Sex as a contribution to Marx and Engels' thought not in opposition to it.
No.5223
>>5222Theory dump please?
No.5224
>>5222Basically read Foucault, deleuze and guattari and enlightenment thinkers and you'll at least be able to point out where they are stating their values as transhistorical. Also read Lenin so whenever they cart him out you can explain the circumstances (often they were involved in an actual revolution) that led him to write that.
At all times be aware of the time and place at which thought arises.
No.5225
>>5220Low key the obsession with drags is pathetic. I think any self respecting gay or trans realized they were passe like forty years ago and just thinks of it as incredibly cringe now. Which is the real harm they bring to children.
No.5227
>>5225What harm? Drag is nice. Maybe you haven't been to the more modern drag scene. It gets pretty avant garde but they're just fun.
No.5228
>>5226I hate the word "believe" and "belief" as if this is some debate you have a position on. Yeah, boys can become girls and reversed. Reactionaries just don't want them to.
No.5229
>>5227The harm being that drags are cringe. And John waters milked the idea for all it's worth in the 60s
No.5230
>>5225Another problem is that being cringe is treated as not just a crime but one more serious than murder
No.5231
>>5229Hmm maybe where you live. We must have different contexts because what you're saying is simply not true where I am from.
But regarding the idea that LGBT (or anyone in general) can't be cringe or else they will cause the cis straight society to cast their judgment upon us is the same idea as this guy
>>5203Unless you're the same person. In that case, the issue of bigotry is not that queer people are or aren't doing cringe stuff. The motor of bigotry is elsewhere. Cringe is also subjective and varies widely from person to person.
No.5232
>>5231Cringe is a social conditioning concept used to punish various people, including neuroatypical people, LGBT people, women, etc. Cringe compilations basically consist of those groups almost exclusively.
No.5233
>>5232>>5231Yea this is where you lose me no offense. Is Chris Chan subjective?
No.5234
>>5233Is a person subjective? Don't know what that means. But Christine Chan is autistic and trans. They are also a piece of shit and sex pest from what I've gathered (I'm no expert)
No.5236
>>5232100%.
>>5233Lose you for what? How well are you acquantied with the LGBT scene in your city? How often do you see people in drag? When was the last time you saw a queer person being "cringe" IRL? Internet is a perverted and almost completely detached view of lived reality. Chris chan is never relevant anywhere except the internet.
No.5237
>>5236Nvm dont answer, I'm going to sleep, but I think you have a perception of "the queers" that does not match real life. I can't explain your position otherwise.
No.5238
Cringe is a reactionary concept with ties to the right wing disgust impulse and "degeneracy" concepts (as in not adhering to cishet male dominance hierarchies of behavior)
No.5239
Look we can discuss actual theory or Tumblr tier posts like contra. If your goal is to be as irritable a person as possible then more power to you.
No.5240
>>5234Forcing yourself on your elderly mother goes a little bit beyond sex pest, assuming I understand the term
No.5241
>>5238It's even more insidious than that, it's actively antisocial in that it makes already atomized people even more afraid to go outside and interact with the real world for either fear of being cringe or in proximity to it
No.5242
My bf is transitioning, any advice for her like resources and such?
No.5246
>>5225Drag queen storytime is based and very much needed to combat the stupidity about needing to adhere to strict behavior and dress codes to be a "real man" etc. Kids seeing drag queens is literally the cure to the "I love my boyfriend but he refuses to wipe his ass because that's gay, what do?" epidemic.
No.5247
>>5246>>5245These are generic shitlib takes. I'll continue reading a book instead of Twitter/Tumblr/contra.
No.5248
>>5243Mtf and she doesn't really know what to do for her.
No.5249
>>5246>Drag queen storytime is based and very much needed to combat the stupidity Please, go back. This is what happens when the mods coddle the fags too much.
No.5250
>>5229Every show is a drag shows because all gender is performance.
No.5253
>>5250high autism score take
No.5254
>>5248There's no guide telling exactly what to do because everyone's transition is different. Basically:
>Therapist>Hair care>Skin health>Makeup>Clothes>Electrolysis hair removal for face>Voice training>HRT>FFS>SRSDon't have to do any of these
No.5255
>>5253RuPaul said it better- we are born naked and the rest is drag
No.5256
>>5254Wow that's a lot of sexist gender stereotypes. All you have to do to be a woman is say you're a woman.
No.5257
>>5256Shut up. None of this is a sexist stereotype. They are optional steps typically considered by trans women. You can have a beard and man voice if you want sis but don't insult people who want to pass and move on with their lives.
No.5258
>>5249Mods aren't here to enforce your aesthetic preferences
>>5248Can she get in touch with her doctor or any local LGBT support services?
No.5259
Why the fuck do adults even need to go through a therapist to transition? Surely they can make decisions about their own lives. Its bullshit.
>>5254Yeah she's got a therapist appointment soon but what should we expect? I heard they often give way too low HRT prescriptions…
>>5258I can't find out anything about local support services (doubtless they are shit) and she can't join the college's LGBT group since she's an adult learner.
No.5260
>>5258>Mods aren't here to enforce your aesthetic preferences Of course not. They are here to coddle your feelings and delete anything that makes you slightly uncomfortable
No.5261
>>5259There are 3rd party websites that sell estrogen but you have to buy it and I don't know how sketchy they are
No.5262
>>5259>Why the fuck do adults even need to go through a therapist to transition? Surely they can make decisions about their own lives. Its bullshit.It's BS but therapists can be good. I don't "need" my therapist anymore but I see her. A voice of sanity in a difficult world.
>>5259>Yeah she's got a therapist appointment soon but what should we expect? I heard they often give way too low HRT prescriptions…Thereapists do not give HRT perscriptions, that would be doctors which she needs to find. She needs to check her blood hormone levels to see if shes being underdosed. Peoples HRT doses are different, what matters is the body's response. Ask /lgbt/ hrtgen
No.5264
>>5261They are sketchy. Avoid them you dont want bathtub estrogen
No.5266
>>5265>Being LGBT makes you a liberalFuck off reactoid
No.5267
>>5265It's shitlib not to enforce heteronormativity on every single online space
No.5268
>>5266I'm literally G. And yes you are a shitlib.
No.5269
>>5267Please tell me how I'm enforcing heteronormativity fuck off with your undialectical Tumblr tier takes.
This is me
>>5217 No.5270
>>5268>I'm literally G.Gorky?
No.5271
>>5269Literally what other posts have you made that have been deleted? Were you the one calling trans people sexist and demanding the thread be deleted for idpol when it initially started?
No.5272
>>5271You're literally just making Boogeymen of anons and calling us all Nazis. It's infantile.
No.5273
>>5272What are you talking about?
No.5274
>>5272Anon, your post complaining about mods makes you look like a reactionary defending the types of post that mostly get deleted. Maybe you don't see them but they're often very bad. So what kind of posts are you complaining about being deleted?
No.5275
>>5274That's not me, I was merely making fun of how you think he's a Nazi who wants to gas you. Which is retarded.
No.5276
>>5275Anon, sorry to tell you but that wasn't me
Anonymity and its consequences
No.5278
>>5275How else am I supposed to interpret someone complaining about mods "coddling fags"? Who else talks like that?
No.5279
>>5274literally yesterday mods deleted two posts responding to this post
>>5173all the posts said is that sex with strangers from grind is gross and unhealthy. In general they delete anything that disturbs the hugbox feeling of this thread which is strange because nothing about "LGBT general" suggest this must be a hugbox where you are only allowed to compliment other posters. I thought this was a place to discuss LGBT topics because they are rightfully banned from the main board.
No.5281
>>5279Bring it up in meta if you care so much, nobody else noticed
No.5282
>>5279Probably just deleted all posts by IP for something else.
No.5283
>>5279>I thought this was a place to discuss LGBT topics because they are rightfully banned from the main board.>rightfullyNot really rightfully considering half the shit there and we can't have 1 thread. Ironically LGBT threads do gain traction, but only anti-LGBT ones. This general was immediately moved here. It betrays the reactionary nature of this site on the topic of our existence and struggles
No.5284
>>5247Why aren't you reading a book instead of posting in an imageboard, Einstein? Who are you trying to impress? Where are your parents?
No.5285
>>5283Rightfully because it's idpol, stupid. You betray your reactionary nature by replacing the universal struggle with your individual struggles. It's my duty to remind you of that.
No.5286
>>5261>>5264they're not sketchy, retards. tons of people use them without problems, and bathtub estrogen (which is safe btw) isn't even what most of them sell
>>5259diyhrt.cafe
this is a place compiling trusted sites where you can get the meds, in case you can't go through the gatekeeping process or the dosages you get prescribed are too low
some of them look autistic (picrel) but most of them sell legit products
No.5287
>>5285Sure, and Palestinians betray their reactionary nature by focusing on their national liberation over universal struggle
No.5289
>>5287Unironically yes. I hate Israel but the Palestinian cause isn't exactly revolutionary.
No.5290
>>5289National liberation may not he revolutionary but it is a necessity, I don't see why sexual and gender liberation would be different
No.5291
>>5290Its not even about gender or sexual liberation. Capital uses every difference we have to absolutely crush us and atomize us. The other anon is essentially claiming we should ignore things like homophobia and racism, likely because he doesn't understand how these are fundamental aspects of the oppression of people and intrinsically a part of class struggle. He'd do well to read the revolutionaries of apartheid states, including the US, as well as revolutionary socialists who fought and won for LGBT causes.
It's a complete erasure of the history of the struggle of labor movements because the anon is too much of an ignorant liberal.
No.5292
>>5288LGBT aren't marginalized. Multiplicity sounds nice but in practice it's destructive. You start talking about heteronormativity and silly wedge issues like gays having adoptions or giving puberty blockers to kids and you lose most people. Your memes are too wordy and basically a strawman. "Straight white male worker" - the boogeyman of every indentation leftist. How much fucking longer until you get it through your skull that white men are not the root of all evil and nobody is saying you need to be a straight white male. Meanwhile we have gay politicians and black capitalists that are so happy to talk about how "marginalized" they are. Maybe your approach isn't as revolutionary as you think?
No.5293
>>5292>and you lose most people.This is not a real thing in IRL organizing.
>Meanwhile we have gay politicians and black capitalists that are so happy to talk about how "marginalized" they are. Oh, racism and homophobia don't exist anymore? I guess the structural issues that affect disproportionately poor black and LGBT people are finally over. Thanks Obama!
No.5294
>>5292Also
>America is the entire worldReally cool!
No.5295
>>5292By virtue of being a "gay" issue it's a wedge issue in your mind
No.5296
>>5292>LGBT aren't marginalized. Multiplicity sounds nice but in practice it's destructive. You start talking about heteronormativity and silly wedge issues like gays having adoptions or giving puberty blockers to kids and you lose most people. Your memes are too wordy and basically a strawman. "Straight white male worker" - the boogeyman of every indentation leftist. How much fucking longer until you get it through your skull that white men are not the root of all evil and nobody is saying you need to be a straight white male. Meanwhile we have gay politicians and black capitalists that are so happy to talk about how "marginalized" they are. Maybe your approach isn't as revolutionary as you think?you need to kill yourself
No.5297
>>5292>silly wedge issues like gays having adoptions or giving puberty blockers to kidsr/AsAGayMan I kinda agree with parts of your rant but i don't think renting a child for your personnal developpement and letting a dysphoric minors medically transition are even remotely comparable bro. One is using a completely unrelated child as an object to consoom so you can feel good about your place in the world while the other is about letting a child taking their own decision of having a normal life in the future and not offing themselves because of dysphoria or getting sent into the convertion therapy industrial complex til they're 30 and become a crackhead afterward.
BTW renting a child (adoption) is bad when it's a straight couple doing it too. Same with paid surrogacy that's just female slave labor, it's doesnt become bad just because some rich gay does it, it was bad from the start. It's bit tiring of having anti-adoption/surrogacy peoples focus on homosexuals doing it when it was made by and for straight peoples originally an they are still the main demographic doing it.
No.5298
>>5292>giving puberty blockers to kidsHealthcare is a silly wedge issue? Interesting how your "wedge issues" are serious issues which just affect small numbers of people. You should be attacking those making these into "wedge issues" rather than those simply trying to get equal rights. Retard
No.5299
>>5298People mad about giving trans kids HRT are absolute dunces, concern trolls trying to ruin peoples lives, imagine thinking it's better to go through the incorrect puberty first while a teenager then go through the proper one that won't even work right once you meet an arbitrary age cutoff decided by retards you never met, turning you into a non-passing hon, than to just let people undergo the right puberty from the start and be happier and healthier. Fuck all retards pretending trans healthcare is a wedge issue.
No.5300
>>5299All people who oppose trans healthcare should be forcibly transitioned to the opposite gender and told to get over it and that it's just a wedge issue to help them get back to their proper gender
No.5302
>>5299Spectacleoids pretend that the entire world's trans struggle is simply about giving kids hrt, or some stupid bathroom bill in literally where, USA, and not the all the other, major issues that trans people face.
It's sheleted retards who think only rich people are LGBT.
No.5303
>>5299Idk why puberty lockers are considered scandalous for kids yet people think kids need to sign up for loans for college.
Or be subject to bullying without retribution.
No.5304
i've been w my boyfriend for about two months and i've never been happier in my life
No.5306
>>5304Happy to hear :)
I broke up with my boyfriend of 8-9 years a few months back. All good though. Feeling good.
No.5307
>>5304You'll know if it's true love when the honeymoon phase is over and you still feel warm
No.5309
>>5308Literally what are you talking about? A romantic relationship is a long term project you have to invest time, effort, and money into over years, it couldn't be further from a participation trophy
No.5310
>>5309You're initiating a conversation with an idiot. Beware.
No.5311
>>4967Why is this site so homophobic?
No.5312
>>5311Do you do anything except complain about homophiba and fuck random dudes on grindr?
No.5313
>>5311/pol/fags and reactionaries came over during Ukraine thinking they were in good company hating the gay because azov wave rainbow flags
No.5314
>>5311Partially it's a leftover of imageboard culture, this whole thing started on 4chan's /lit/, then was the third or fourth most popular board on 8chan, where most boards were even more actively homophobic. On the real life side of things you have the commercialization and capture of the LGBT western pride movement, pinkwashing of imperialism (Zionism in particular). This pinkwashing in particular sets a sour taste in the mouths of people who have anti-imperialist sentiment but don't have queer people in their lives, thus all expressions of queerness become cringe, liberal, WEF, Soros, or whatever.
No.5315
>>5312How do you even know what Grindr is? Most cishet*ids don't know what that is
No.5316
>>5315What if I'm not a cishet? *gasp*
No.5317
>>5315Some incels turn Grind to get trans girls because it's easier than getting a cis girl.
No.5319
>>334871
>Working class men cannot afford to be fashion queens yet it is their labor being exploited to produce opulent frivolities for the sissy rich.
If you mean financially afford that was very true but these days due to fast fashion it's less true than it was. If you mean afford in another way there are many jobs these days that aren't physical labour.
>gay men and trans women need to stop celebrating femininity as consumerism.
Masculinity and femininity as concepts should just be forgotten. There is nothing wrong with someone dressing and acting the way they want so long as they aren't causing serious problems for others like endangerment.
>There also needs to be acknowledgement of the real loss in productivity when a man transitions to a woman, without the corresponding rise in reproductive potential that female women provide.
This just sounds Reactionary. Most jobs arent about brute strength. Even ones that are physical are mainly the operation of machines. So I have no idea what you're on about with loss of productivity.
No.5320
>>334871
>There also needs to be acknowledgement of the real loss in productivity when a man transitions to a woman, without the corresponding rise in reproductive potential that female women provide.
have you ever worked a job? this is like making the argument women are bad at being soldiers even though history slaps you in the face when you say that
No.5321
>>334892
Apparently you never heard about the babrbian warriors or the Spartan girls.
No.5322
>>334871
>That's completely wrong. What it suggests is that gay men and trans women need to stop celebrating femininity as consumerism. There also needs to be acknowledgement of the real loss in productivity when a man transitions to a woman, without the corresponding rise in reproductive potential that female women provide.
Most retarded thing I've read in a long time. What are you trying to get at, that when trans women transition they adopt "less productive" jobs as if womens' jobs are less productive? Sexist pos lmao
No.5324
>>5321>babrbian warriors or the Spartan girlsThe what? Barbarian warriors? From where? Oh, from "The Place Where Barbarians Were Brutally Slaughtered". Really convincing. Oh wait, you're talking about the Scythian peoples? Whom, recent anthropological discoveries have shown did NOT have female warriors? No, you're talking about Boadicea or whatever, whose entire revolt was more close to a temper-tantrum than anything - all brutality and no change.
And the "Spartan Girls"? You mean the women who inherited wealth from male military men? Goddamn, what a repertoire.
And keep in good mind, all of these civilizations had seldom few long-term impact. They were there, they were destroyed, and they've since been forgotten.
Keep in mind - I'm a trans woman, a closeted one. I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that my (actual) gender is the superior one; at best, it's an equal.
No.5325
>>5323kek what happened to "people transition to treat an illness and not because they are incels looking to get laid"
You people aren't even trying to hide how hollow and fetishist your ideology is
No.5326
>>5325Is your fucking brain incapable of understanding that transhumanists are not a monolith block, and some transition because they will kill themselves otherwise and others transition because they want to have sex?
No.5327
>>5323There are plenty of us who like more feminine builds. Are you new? Lol. There's probably a term for your body type and men that primarily look for it.
No.5328
>>5326Anti-trans obsessed people are essentially insane. Their obsession of trans issues is just the surface of a troubled person. None of them have healthy social lives, let alone knowing trans people IRL. They live in a fantasy world of their own creation based upon sensationalist media they read online.
No.5329
>>334871
>Working class men cannot afford to be fashion queens yet it is their labor being exploited to produce opulent frivolities for the sissy rich.
Completely wrong. This is why you shouldn't start your analysis based on what you think should be true, and then decide reality is like this. No surprise that the rest of your post is reactionary drivel.
No.5330
>>5328>None of them have healthy social livesIt's true. That's when i realized this that i stopped being transphobic and circlejerking about transhumanists all day with my rw internet friends (who were mostly all losers like me tbh, but at least i was still young).
I was genuinely convinced to be on a religious crusade everytime i was typing an anti-trans wall of text mostly made of various anti-trans states and studies i havent even read but were told were anti-transhumanist. Lolcowism made me loose so much time by forming a parasocial relationship with trans lolcows and their abusers.
I'm way healthier and productive since i stopped.
No.5331
>>5330I keep saying that reactionary politics are just mommy/daddy issues. It's just failed adults whom never had a fulfilled childhood and have even worse time in adulthood.
Alot of alt rightist are found to be on the spectrum if not some other cognitive/social difficulty.
Look at the male hierarchy memes and the hardship fetishizers.
These guys think masculinity is like in the action movies, that simplicity is degenerate.
They're still stuck in a toddler mentality where they think superheroes real.
It's not unlike those entitled young women whom still cling to the infantile myth of chivalry.
Also, being young is no diagnosis for loserdom.
No.5332
>>5331IDEALISM IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVILIDEALISM BEGETS EXPECTATIONS
EXPECTATIONS BEGETS ENTITLEMENT
ENTITLEMENT BEGETS INDIGNATION
INDIGNATION BEGETS INSURRECTION
INSURRECTION BEGETS REGRESSION
REGRESSION BEGETS DESPERATION
DESPERATION BEGETS IDEALISM
No.5333
>>334871
you'd get shot by the soviets btw
No.5334
>>5323there are people that look for that
No.5335
>>5323>too masc for femboy>too fem for 'most gays'This seems impossible tbh. There's plenty of gay or at least bi men who are into 'femboys' and its not like all or most gays are 'masc for masc' muscle jocks.
If you're less feminine than a femboy but not particularly masculine that just sounds like you're an entirely standard twink which is very popular, its my preference for sure. I can't imagine there's a place on the twink to femboy gradient that you wouldn't have tons of people attracted to you.
No.5336
>>5325What? Look, honest to god, I don't know what you're going on about. I lost my virginity very early at 14 to a woman, but as it turns out, I fucking love men. Like I have an incredibly feminine sexuality and even personality, encased under hard layers of masculinity I required in order to merely survive in the poorer neighborhoods I grew up in.
But I love men, I want to please men. But the problem is that men would not feel attraction to me because I find myself in the liminal space between masculinity and femininity. I have a feminine soul within me that's extremely strong, while having a masculine body. It's not a good juxtaposition.
No.5337
>>533614 is pretty average really
No.5338
>>5337The average is 16, and it's only made worse by the horrid epidemic of virginity within the youth
>inb4 i get called an incel and then have to explain how late-stage capitalism et. al. has basically killed genuine human sexuality No.5339
>>5336mf was living the life of a shota doujin character
No.5340
>>5336>I have a feminine soul within me that's extremely strong, while having a masculine bodyLiteral incel mindset+"men being feminine is bad" sexism. So glad we have a safe space for people like you.
(See, I'm being nice to the freak, don't ban me moderino)
No.5342
>>5340He's cleary having sex so not an incel+thats not what he said you complete mongoloid retard he's litteraly a femboy
No.5343
>>5342Calm down. He's had sex with women but he's seething he's not getting any from men and blaming it on stupid shit. That's incel mindset. You do know what a mindset is don't you? He's not a femboy, he's a guy who thinks having a submissive personality means he needs to look like a woman to attract a mate. That's clearly sexism lol. Wild that you think coddling this dude is going to help him get over his complexes.
No.5344
>>5343he is litteraly killing womens with his sexism i agree
No.5345
>>5326I mean the anons didnt even talked about being trans or even considering transitioning deriously just that he was too ugly and masculine to look like a femboy and that the skittle squad dont want him.
Imageboard user have been so buckbroken by rightwing culture war that a bi guy saying "i wish fags found me attractive" can only make them sperg about transhumanists somehow.
>>5340>freakYou're a homosexual bro calm down, that's as freakish as it goes.
No.5346
>>5344lol women are doing fine but he is driving himself insane and you're enabling him. That's the whole ethos of modern progressivism.
No.5347
>>5346what am i enabling what are you talking about
No.5351
>>5348I look more like the guy on the right
No.5352
>>5350Thanks Tucker Carlson et al!
No.5353
>>5350https://krdo.com/news/top-stories/2021/06/19/bomb-threat-in-lorson-ranch-neighborhood-friday-night/COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (KRDO) – Friday afternoon around 2:00 p.m., deputies with the El Paso County Sheriff's Offices responded to reports of a bomb threat on Rubicon Drive in the Lorson Ranch neighborhood, just south of the Colorado Springs Airport.
The suspect, 21-year old Anderson Lee Aldrich, refused to comply with deputies' orders to surrender. It was reported to the Sherrif's Office that he had a homemade bomb, multiple weapons, and ammunition.
A Tactical Support Unit, which includes the Regional Explosives Unit was called in. Around 10 homes were evacuated in the surrounding area, while an emergency text notification was sent out to homes within a 1/4-mile radius of the address.
The Regional Explosives Unit cleared both homes and did not find any explosive devices.
At around 6:00 p.m., the suspect was taken into custody and has been booked into the El Paso County Jail. Aldrich faces two counts of Felony Menacing and three counts of First-Degree Kidnapping.
https://heavy.com/news/anderson-lee-aldrich/Heavy has confirmed that Aldrich is the grandson of outgoing Republican State Assemblymember Randy Voepel, the former mayor of Santee, California. Voepel represents the 71st district in the San Diego area. There were calls to expel Voepel from the state Assembly after he made comments comparing the January 6 attacks to the Revolutionary War. Aldrich’s mother, Laura Voepel, has written posts praising Randy Voepel on Facebook and confirming he is her father.
<please flee the burgerreich if you can comrades No.5354
>>5340when did i say anything about femininity being bad? serious question. all i said was there was a severe incongruity between how people immediately perceive me on a fundamental level, and how I truly feel - with no good solutions, both long term and immediate.
sounds like projection+cope
No.5355
>>5353>>5350Real question what could be done against this? Realistically the police cant even be decent at stopping mass shooters that kill childrens in schools.
Small LGBT militias with guns?
No.5356
>>5348Black text is the same 3 people.
Pink text is trash. LGBT struggles are already the class struggle. There is no integrating. Maybe uncovering a new vector of class struggle, but it already is part of the class struggle.
No.5357
>>5355Require guns look like pink dildos and bullets have kissy lips on them.
No.5360
>>5359I can't have guns in my cucked euro country :(
No.5361
>>5359That's tragic. What a nightmare America is becoming. I went to NY and a friend was telling me about all the violence. How is any of this acceptable?
>>340401Make the world a favor and kill yourself. I mean it.
No.5362
>>340401
What compromise where? Stay in the closet? Live in fear?
No.5363
>>340401
>compromise
<if you show your sexuality publically like straight people do all the time you'll get shot
keep supporting amerimutt murder chimpouts though, the fags have gone too far
No.5364
>>5355If you are a burger (and don't feel like you might end up shooting yourself) then get strapped
No.5365
>>5355Uh organize? Isn’t this a leftist website, why does this advice come after only 2 other replies about getting guns?
No.5368
>>5366literally anyone with at least a functioning brain cell already understands this
No.5369
>>5356>Pink text is trash. LGBT struggles are already the class struggle.I agree but you are not the target of the meme
>Black text is the same 3 people. that's the point
No.5370
>>5368would that it were so simple
No.5371
>>5369the meme is shit
i know everyone here is a drooling retard or bad faith troll or both, but at least try to flash it across your limited cognition that arguing against a very deliberately stupid position gives ground to the person making it
No.5373
this thread is shit btw because it’s on a board filled with friendless incels who want to circlejerk about their hatred of anyone that isn’t them
No.5374
>>5373It's on /siberia/, not /leftypol/.
No.5375
>>5373The whole board needs to be rid of reactionaries. This thread is the vanguard keeping the rest of the board safe 🙏
May we remain strong in our resolve.
No.5376
>>5371>>5372why are you so cruel to someone who is on your side and is making agitprop. Could you just be an LGBTphobe sowing diskord? The propaganda against LGBT people both in and outside the imperial core is very strong and re-educating people who've been taught by the bourgeoisie to dehumanize LGBT people is important. I understand your impatience with reactionaries but I cannot simply shoot them through my screen. This is where the discussion takes place.
No.5377
>>5371> arguing against a very deliberately stupid position gives ground to the person making ityou're right. I should just let them dehumanize LGBT people in the presence unchallenged in the presence of impressionable youths and not have prepared counter-arguments that can be easily deployed. my apologies.
No.5378
>>5376>I understand your impatience with reactionaries but I cannot simply shoot them through my screenthen don’t do anything
>>5377none of them will read your ugly wojak shit. go to fucking reddit or /pol/ and peddle wojaks to those boomer lobotomites if you care about wojak meme shit that much
No.5379
>>5378You complain about me making agitprop to re-educate phobes, claiming it's useless to fight them, while simultaneously putting a needless amount of effort into fighting me.
>then don’t do anythingtake your own advice and shut your fucking mouth instead of complaining about agitprop that's on your side.
No.5380
>>5379wow you are dumb. keep posting though, you’re a good fit for this place at least
No.5383
>>5376>I cannot simply shoot them through my screenIm actually surprised you dont see Reactionaries being sent viruses more often than a rare occurrence.
No.5384
>>5380
>you’re a good fit for this place at leastoh wow, we're both posting in the same place, except you pretend you're somehow somewhere else, astute observation.
No.5386
>>5381i am being abrasive on purpose
it’s because you think your shitty memes are masterpieces
No.5387
>>5386>you thinkwhy do you claim to know what others think
No.5388
>>5386>you think your shitty memes are masterpiecesno, I think they're small but well intentioned attempts to reeducate people. the equivalent of a pamphlet or a piece of graffiti. I have no illusions of grandeur.
No.5389
>>5386bro come on, they are cool, if you think you can do better then do it.
No.5390
>>5385Lol i meant computer viruses so they can touch grass, not biological warfare.
No.5391
>>5390i know. that's still beyond most peoples capabilities
No.5392
>>5391If they are writing them themselves yes but there basically are databases of computer viruses and viruses for sale so it's not that inaccessible.
No.5393
>>5392You don't want that shit charged to your credit or debit card
No.5395
I've always had a lot of respect for LGBT people for some reason. I don't know if it's because of listening to too much Xiu Xiu growing up (which is some aggressively queer music, and Jamie's blog introduced me to a lot of gay shit) so homophobia has always viscerally upset me. It's like fucking caveman shit to me.
That being said, I've always wondered if I'm not entirely straight. I used to watch a lot of porn with feminine boys in it when I was a teenager. I just chalked it up to being horny, but I still wonder a lot. I remember getting my ticket checked at a concert by a really cute transgirl and I was like "oh wow". Maybe I'm just one of those people who doesn't really give a shit, I guess.
Wanting to experiment feels really wrong though, like I'm a chaser or something. I'm pretty hetero and masc in my day to day life. Not even sure I would enjoy it, but I'm just a curious little fella.
No.5396
>>5395>Wanting to experiment feels really wrong though, like I'm a chaser or something. nah it's only chasing if you're creepy and stalkerish about it. don't feel bad.
>I'm pretty hetero and masc in my day to day life. Not even sure I would enjoy it, but I'm just a curious little fella. I'm cishet, married, kids, and I've never had a non-straight experience but I have a lot of LGBT in my family, including some elders, so I've always felt the need to fiercely defend them from bigotry from my own kind lol. Life's strange.
No.5398
>>5395>>5396Baseeed. Nothing wrong with experimentation. Everyone is flexible in their sexuality, and it is not a static thing either. People act like if you have homosexual sex once and enjoyed it, that makes you bisexual. Nah brah, we're not binary machines like that. Even if you have homo sex from time to time, that doesn't make you bi. In the real world, these things are complicated and inconsistent. It's only in the abstract that we force people's behavior into our neat LGBT boxes.
>>5394What a cunt. Disgusting how a vermin like him could have a "society" dedicated to him. Mediocre ghouls.
What is Cuckerson doing recently? I'm not aware. Last I heard was him reporting on the huge titties teacher.
No.5399
A guy at my school wants to suck my peepee in the bathroom but I suffer from ED, what do I do?
No.5402
>>5395Damn. Based Xiu Xiu enjoyer.
>Wanting to experiment feels really wrong though, like I'm a chaser or something. I'm pretty hetero and masc in my day to day life. Not even sure I would enjoy it, but I'm just a curious little fella.Been there, done that. Sort of. Before I withdrew from the straight dating scene, I went on dates with about half a dozen men because I figured it's statistically more likely that I'm straight and this is just what I'm supposed to do as a young adult. Failing to feel anything for a man, I spent a long time reflecting on the possibility I'm attracted to other women and that my feelings about them (and about men) are not in fact shared by straight women. To tell the truth, I still wonder, "what if I'm not gay?", "what if I just psyop'd myself into thinking this?". There's no harm in thinking things through and trying things out, and if turns out not to be, you can cross that bridge when you get to it.
Think about it this way: people go on first dates with people without knowing they're really attracted to them literally all the time, so how's it any different if you do it with a trans woman or a feminine man? You're not wasting their time or manipulating them any more than cishet people on a first date who happen to not have a mutual spark. And the fact that you wonder if you're a chaser means you probably aren't one. Don't worry about feeling like you're expected to go straight to railing someone either. Plenty of people would rather hang out a few times to get to know you so you can have time to process if you end up deciding to start meeting people. </corny rant>
>>5396> I'm cishet, married, kids, and I've never had a non-straight experience but I have a lot of LGBT in my family, including some elders, so I've always felt the need to fiercely defend them from bigotry from my own kind lol. Life's strange.I'm glad we have allies like you, anon.
No.5403
>>5399Suck his dick and that's it? Maybe just tell him you can't get it up? Idk…
No.5404
>>5402></comfy rant>Fixed
>>5400Maybe spreading boundless hate does nothing to solve the problem, or help the victims, or anything really, and it opens up for shit like what Poole is saying.
No.5405
>>5400Rightoids are the ones who were pushing the misuse of the term groomer for political manipulation after the term lost all meaning from being misused even prior and it's nothing new to try to slander gay men and trans women as predators. Even the misuse of the term pedodphilia was from rightoids because instead of looking at the societal causes of exploitation and abuse they instead turned a mental illness solely defined by an attraction to prepubertal children and label it as the sole motivator. Not long before in the 90s they tried to push the narrative gay men wanted to rape them which was heighened earlier on by the AIDS epidemic but when that didnt work for long after people came to their senses more, they moved back to saying gay men and trans women are after kids which at this point the notion of what is a child is endlessly being expanded to an older and older age and as such more actual instances will appear which will make them claim it's an epidemic when it's really just same statistics. This loss of meaning of words and the deluded sense of seeing everything as sexual due to their own lack of sex makes it easier to have leverage over views of the gullible
No.5406
Next thread should be on /leftypol/. I'm tired of the nu-nazboloids that have been coming in lately and think they are in good company.
>>5405That encapsulates it pretty well.
No.5408
>>5406>Next thread should be on /leftypol/Anyone who's seen the recent slew of blatantly transphobic OPs on leftypol knows the lgbtgen's sequestration to Siberia is reactionary bullshit
No.5410
>>5405the groomer rhetoric started because of a massive court case about child abuse in churches, literally just a way to SSO google from showing that their organizations are full of unironic groomer pedos at first and now it's too politically useful because what do you do to a pedo? people have gotten off scot-free for murdering pedos in the united states. they say groomer because they think it should be morally correct to murder us
No.5412
>>5411There's also some cool stuff about how gays have been the artistic genius because of repression for centuries but that could without repression be redirected into a revolutionary subject.
No.5413
>>5405>seeing everything as sexual honestly everything is sexual, they just interact with this basic truth in different ways (brutal repression and a retreating into 'safe' sexualities like the family)
No.5414
>>342371
theres some neat stuff in it but i don't think its particularly dense material. Your comment is pretty incendiary though, care to actually push forward your own queer theory.
No.5415
>>5414It's not "incendiary", just me making fun of Guattari playing abstract mind-games
No.5416
>>5415> abstract mind games> self-fellatingwell let me know when you have an actual critique
No.5417
>>5416well let me know when u shut up
No.5418
Attention to sex-havers in Canada
https://www.gofreddie.com/Telemedicine clinic that streamlines getting PrEP prescriptions
No.5419
>>5418nice. I'll let my friend in vancouver know. The sonovabich has been taking a friends prep to "ramp up" until he gets his.
>>5411nice.
>>5409fuck!
>>5408It's a war! We need to push the nazbolids out.
No.5421
>>5418>>5419Looks like pharmaceutical marketing works even on you lot, why? When i first heard about PrEP it didn't take long for me to be appauled how to me it didn't make sense to me a healthy person taking an expensive drug that can cause life threatening side effects. What's the thought process there? Hopefully an effective and safe HIV/AIDS vaccine comes along soon because i see a disaster in the making. Viruses can mutate to antivirals so a drug resistant strain could come along.
No.5422
>>5421PrEP is safe. Side effects aren’t life threatening and cases are a minority of users.
No.5423
>>5422What's the actual rates of things like kidney failure for example?
No.5424
>>5421>>5422i havent taken it but ive been considering it. I hear the newer drug doesnt have the weird osteoporosis issue so its basically safe now.
apparently you also lose weight on it initially which is chill.
No.5425
>>5421Getting HIV is not nice. An HIV vaxx is unlikely to come soon.
No.5426
>>5425With newer vaccine types and recent knowledge on innate immune response changes from vaccinations would lead to better vaccines in general.
No.5427
>>5426Of course, but HIV is particularly tricky compared to basically all major viruses.
We've been testing breakthrough science in HIV vaccines to very limited success. There's basically only one vaccine that kinda works, and only provides a maximum of 60% of immunological protection. The most recent wonder vaccine turned out to only provide 25% protection. The new mRNA vaccines will enter phase 1 by 2023, which is nice, but it is unlikely that these will bare any fruit soon. What is likely to happen is that if they have any efficacy, it will be low, and old HIV vaccine techniques will be adapted to the new mRNA technique in future trials. Even then, mRNA is not magic. There's nothing inherently in mRNA style vaccines that obviously overcome the challenges that HIV poses.
There's a question here of ethics. Among drug users, men who have sex with men, and Africans from countries particularly hit by HIV, is a lower efficacy vaccine worth making available? I'd say yes, tbh. Reducing the number of HIV patients is a net win, and for high risk individuals with no access to PrEP, like drug users and sex workers, it might be the best chance they have.
The best we have now is PrEP. It effectively lowers the risk of HIV between two users of PrEP to acceptable levels. I still think bareback with strangers is a bit iffy, but PrEP really does provide good protection.
If you plan on having sex with people who have anal sex, then PrEP is the best we have in terms of protection. Waiting for a vaccine is waiting for Godot.
No.5428
HOT TAKE
There's only two sexualities.
Normative sexuality and queer.
Gay? Lesbian? What are those categories supposed to encompass even? Is any gay or lesbian here consistent with being a proper gay or lesbian? Nobody. Bisexuals? What is the bi? Are bisexuals not attracted to non-binaries??? Made up non-sensical category. "Trans women are women"? Comrade, most cis women aren't even women. Same with cis-men.
Lmao, stop believing fake categories. There's a minority of good normative boys pretending to be the majority, and then there's the rest of us queers, which constantly defy classification.
If you haven't met a straight guy that has occasional straight sex with other guys, you need to get out more.
No.5429
>>5428>straight guy that has occasional straight sex with other guys🙄
No.5430
>>5429Pretty common actually.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-straight-men-of-the-rural-midwest-who-have-sex-with-each-other-2>When was the last time you went out for a cup of coffee with another straight friend and sucked him off afterward?I call it a friendjob.
No.5431
>>5430>>342827That's just being in denial though.
No.5432
>>5427Im thinking why not make a viral vector vaccine that is made to train the body to attack the reverse transcriptase?
No.5433
Any FTMs here?
No.5435
>>5434All you do is take estrogen and progesterone. The progesterone increases boob size because its produced by pregnant females to prepare for lactation
No.5436
culture war shit and dont hate me im G but why are drag queen reading groups so popular all of a sudden? Specifically, why do drag queens want to perform for young kids?
No.5437
>>5434it's not happening for most because god hates us
>>5436are they popular though? i feel like this is just spectacle
No.5438
>>5436What scale is it reareally happening on though? Maybe two maybe four cases tops? I think the real question is who's idea was it to begin with and what was the intended motive? Did it even have anything to do with LGBT acceptance or was it just having a colourful character read to kids or was it just a few drag queens volunteering but not really thinking about it and showing up in drag?
No.5439
Yall ever think about how cities with high LGBT pops annihilate the surroundings in every conceivable wealth metric: education, housing, well-paid jobs, culture. If we ever amassed in a single region I think we could actually attain global hegemony in both culture and technology on account of just being better than everyone else.
No.5440
>>5439might have more to do with queer people wanting to live in safe areas, but hell yeah, I'm all for queer supremacy.
No.5441
>>5435there are pregnant women making medicines?
how
No.5442
>>5436honestly this just seems to be 50 liberal wokescold parents in all the country that do this
No.5443
>>5439That's because lots of LGBT have to grind and hustle hard to be rich enough so they can live in some high-security high-trust high-income neighbordhood so they wont get hatecrimed by one of their conservative coworker at the factory they would be working in if they were poor.
It's actually kind of sad.
No.5444
>>5443well I think the primary reasons are no kids and no fat wife spending all ma damn money
No.5447
>>5445Have you tried the bumble friends option?
Why "no apps"?
Otherwise, you can cold approach people in gay spaces and talk to them. Try to befriend them. Get their numbers and message them later asking them if they want to hang out.
No.5448
>>5436a drag queen is kinda like a gay clown, it has to be like
>>5442 said, like 50 wokescold parents doing something that isn't particularly scandalous but god damn I'm too impoverished to bother hanging out listening to drag queens read books, if I wanted to be around drag queens I'd go somewhere that there might at least be people I could meet/date like a gay club but even then, we had the terrorist attack against the gay club recently.
The drag queen reading thing isn't scandalous but it's potent propaganda for reactionary schizos
No.5449
>>5408leftypol is moving passed TERF shit ideologically though, they call out overt transphobes as distracted nazbols now, probably because the whole the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin/haz schizo movement knocked some sense into them.
No.5450
>>5449I feel like it changed when Ukraine kicked off and we got flooded with polyps and other barely disguised reactionaries, and liberals brains broke and started backing Neo nazis and hardened stormfags. now the U.S. wants to go to war with china in ten years, anti-idpol politics seems like a distant memory of 2014
No.5451
>>5450definately, the kinda hoi4 larper contrarians showed their true colors
No.5452
>>5448>The drag queen reading thing isn't scandalous but it's potent propaganda for reactionary schizosIf it wasn't this they would just make up something else.
No.5453
>>5452transgender people who can afford the medical transition drop like 100k+ throughout the whole thing, it's immensely profitable to hold transgender people down with the boot to make them pay you to take the boot off
No.5454
>>5449I honestly don't see it. Look at how popular it is to attack science and atheism and defend Christianity and other superstition. I honestly wonder who Leftypol would have actually sided with if they had lived during the Russian Revolution or Spanish Civil War. It's a reminder that Platypus was right when they said that the most widespread anti-Marxism calls itself Marxism.
No.5455
>>5454>Look at how popular it is to attack science and atheism and defend Christianity and other superstitionOn leftypol? I have "complaints" about the some of the user base but it's pretty atheist.
No.5456
>>5453it honestly depends, if you're doing it with surgeries then yeah, but if you're a schizomoder making your own hrt from dengist raws in your basement it's honestly pretty low
No.5458
Hey qt3.14s,
Looking into going into the dating scene again. I plan on using apps. Tbh I'm just looking for friends I can also have sex with. I hate one night stands so I am avoiding grindr. My plan is to go on a date and then if the mood is there then take them home, but likely just end the date and keep in contact for a second date and then maybe fuck. I'm in a weird position, I want to have sex but my libido is low, and I'm also really picky with the men I like.
Anyways… Any tips?
How are things going for you?
No.5459
>>4967Look at all the reactionary takes in this thread
https://leftypol.org/siberia/res/348252.htmlGetting sick of it girls
No.5460
Bout to hit bump limit again.
What's a good OP image for the 3rd?
No.5462
>>5459There are so many reactionaries who claim to be sympathetic to communism and yet refuse to give up their bigotries. They think to do so is to kneel to the spectacle of identity politics. Their unwarranted and unprovoked hostility to LGBT people, I repeat,
people, is propped up by the flimsy premise that LGBT people are somehow a "westoid think tank." Rather than a coalition of marginalized people. Whenever they dare to engage us in conversation, they begin by deliberately assuming that LGBT and their cishet allies are averse to class consciousness without even consulting us on the matter. Then, once their assumption has been established, they continue to beat us over the head with it because it provides a justification to their bigotry. We can disavow capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism in all its forms, or even show that we live outside the imperial core, but it doesn't matter. Simply *being LGBT* and expressing the desire to not be treated like utter shit by comrades on that basis is dismissed by them as trying to drive a wedge into the anti-capitalist community using idpol, or being on the pay roll of some think tank. It doesn't matter if LGBT people are on the backpedal. The context of the conversation never seems to matter. It doesn't matter who fired shots first. The most irritating thing they do is to claim that LGBTphobia is somehow inherent to an indigenous culture that we are "erasing" with our wicked ways. They will use their own ethnonationalist identity politics as a human shield to justify bigotry before we even bring anything up. Two men kissing is a violation of their rights and their indigenous culture. A trans person existing in their vicinity represents the destruction of their family unit. They *must* intervene to stop others living their lives because *they* are the ones being attacked. The most slimy thing they do is when they insist LGBT are "fine but need to keep it in the bedroom." as though cishet public displays of love are perfectly normal and OK but LGBT displays of love and affection are inherently fun and corrupt. Then, when imperial core porky attempts to do pinkwashing in an attempt to shore up marketing demographics, LGBT are cast by them as somehow being lackeys of porky. Most of the people doing this kind of rhetoric wouldn't dare pretend that black people are somehow inherently capitalist because a bunch of bourgeois think tanks claim to represent them. So why do it with LGBT? Because they are the scapegoat of the moment. Then they do this insufferable waffling over the acronym. "Oh, fags aren't a problem on their own, but LGBT isn't a REAL group it's an acronym that represents Western Imperialism!"
it makes me fucking sick. all they have to do is stop attacking us and stop bringing us up. But they're always the first to bitch about us, and then
a request that they stop attacking us and start attacking capitalism is dismissed as us failing to be anticapitalist enough! No.5463
>>5462>inherently fun and corrupt.*d3gen3r4t3
(word filtered)
No.5465
>>5460literally anything except for anime or wojaks
No.5467
>>5464The eyesore illustration of the heroic armoured horse-riding policeman riding down 3 unarmed people clashes heavily with the awkward attempt at a Soviet poster style
Also I love how Slavs are homophobic in the same way that they’re anti-semitic. Apparently there’s a global LGBT deep state out there threatening them somehow
No.5469
>>5461I vote on the first image
No.5470
>>5467>Russians>anti-semitic This is what happens when you listen to Radio Free Europe and Amnesty International instead of Russian comrades.
https://mac417773233.wordpress.com/2022/12/15/the-griner-bout-incident-fromthe-russian-perspective/ No.5472
>>5470>opinions of "russian comrades"<some boomer death merchant who got stuck watching fox news in prison for 15 years straightstop shilling that site and fuck off
No.5473
>>5471>>5471no proof for any of these ridiculous accusations. Richard Spencer, being a doughy anglo faggot is closer to being LGBT than anything RUSSIAN. You will never understand the Russian ethos until you actually live there and speak to the people.
No.5475
>>5462Good post.
Several random points to add:
These people don't exist outside the internet.
Homophobia reinforces masculinity. These people hold an implicit premise that masculinity is the ultimate being of a man. Homophobia stems from gender non-conformity. It is specifically going against the ideal of masculinity. Masculinity and the obsessive pursuit of masculinity is taken as something for granted in men.
Women aren't really concerned about being de-feminized. It's not a central drive in feminity. Whereas emasculation is. There is no real equivalent to emasculation for women.
The prevailing assumption of the male need to be masculine (and not be emasculated), is founded on the idea that men are superior to women.
Hence, male chauvinism is at the root of homophobia, emasculation, incel ideology, misogyny, transphobia, etc.
This male chauvinism also affects straight people. It is out of this impossible demand to become masculine that they must put down others to assert their own masculinity, but it is never enough. It is the driver of all of these Andrew Tate characters that men love because they get told that they're powerful and macho. It is also related to the promise of obscene enjoyment that comes out of fascism, which is also why their politics tend to align with fascists or mirror that of fascism with red-coated fantasies. The promise of obscene enjoyment of fascism is the promise of the realization of pure masculinity, be it rape, killing, torture, power, or whatever other domination fantasy it might be.
We made fun of /pol/ retards shooting up malls and shit, "no chin, no right to speak" as the Siberian slogan says. It is effective because it strikes at the core of the motor of their fascism, gender nonconformity. I will say that again for the people in the back. The chinless insult against /pol/ is effective because it strikes at the core of the insecurity that drives their fascism, which is being gender noncomforming, particularly not conforming to the impossible ideal of masculinity, therefore always being in a state of being "cucked" and mogged.
We here at leftypol have advanced the discourse regarding anti-idpol very well, and more so than other places. Unfortunately, due to the influx of new users, the exodus of old users, and the non-discussion of this topic, it seems that the right wing perspective is the loudest one sometimes. It was great when we broke the liberal essentialists ideology of idpol in 2016, it was great when we broke through the liberal narrative of "trans women are women" by accepting the premise but also rejecting the idea of womanhood as a valid concept to begin with, we've rejected the liberal claims of Yankee black ethno nationalism and Sakaists, we've moved forward and dismantled the liberal core of these seemingly progressive ideologies, revealing in them the revolutionary truth within them, and shedding the liberal dead weight.
We need to continue this tradition by attacking with a vicious fierceness and unrelenting spirit the reactionary ideology of masculinity that is a cancer to this community, to ourselves as individuals, and to society more generally. The ideology of masculinity must be resisted, we cannot yield an inch to reactionary nazbol, and other internet fiends. It infects our very souls by making us feel insufficient, inferior, inadequate, and isolated, and particularly so for men.
Comrades, I make the appeal to you that we take this upon ourselves and push it forward.
No.5478
>>5473The russian ethos is having half your country being single mothers and the other half catching AIDS after years of injecting poor quality heroin into their veins and then killing themselves.
No.5479
>>5475>Women aren't really concerned about being de-feminized.Some of them in fact are, but they are fewer in number because they are more likely to see gender roles for women as restrictive than men are to see gender roles for men as restrictive. But the main reason you see this less is because femininity is not conceived of as something contingent in the same way that masculinity is. Women don't have to achieve femininity (except trans women in some people's minds), but they have it by default and can have it "damaged" or "destroyed" by various things, usually relating to sexual promiscuity. The feminine version of emasculation is often being a rape victim, and indeed many many women are afraid of being "violated" or "degraded," and not simply in the sense of being wronged or traumatized as a person but in the sense that some "womanhood" quality is deteriorated, because (as with emasculation for men) that often is the social reality.
>The prevailing assumption of the male need to be masculine (and not be emasculated), is founded on the idea that men are superior to women. Not really. It's founded on the biological fact that emasculation/castration in a literal sense is a real possibility and used to be a social reality in many cultures. And it's not specific to straight men. The English government chemically castrated Alan Turing for fuck's sake. There is a reason that an association exists between eunuchs and gay men, and it's not just that losing your dick and/or balls can make you resort to prostate stimulation. Castration as punishment for sexual "deviancy" is a tendency that has long existed and in fact something that right wingers sometimes continue to fantasize about, although these impulses are more often directed toward pedophiles or other sexual predators rather than simply "deviants." We also shouldn't forget that forced sterilization is a very real and ongoing practice, which affects women at least as much as men and is an intentional act of genocidal eugenics.
>This male chauvinism also affects straight people. It is out of this impossible demand to become masculine that they must put down others to assert their own masculinity, but it is never enough.The reason they fear emasculation (literal or metaphorical) is because they want to do it and fear that if they don't measure up to their own standards that it will happen to them. Their folly is not masculinity itself but a failure to conceive of a world where we're not in a fierce competition to assert dominance over each other, a folly that you share. There is also a version of masculinity where "it is never enough" but not in the sense that you can't ever measure up to others, but in the sense that you can't ever finish working on yourself and helping others. The masculinity problem is not that masculinity or maleness or any such thing are intrinsically bad, but the dominance hierarchy version of these things.
We're not baboons or chimpanzees, a tournament species where a top male hoards all the females (to vastly oversimplify things), but we do have
enough of those tendencies in our evolutionary history that fascists can appeal to the vestiges of those instincts. We also have the instincts of millions of years of cooperative and communal social/sexual structures. Our closest relative is the bonobo after all. Our species is messy, but the good news is the more harmful tendencies within us don't work well in a highly developed and cooperative society, at least not without some kind of strict and repressive caste system providing a containing structure for it. It makes people too miserable and undermines their ability to function as a cohesive social unit, so it can't survive in the long run.
>We need to continue this tradition by attacking with a vicious fierceness and unrelenting spirit the reactionary ideology of masculinity that is a cancer to this community, to ourselves as individuals, and to society more generally.Male chauvinism and masculinity are not the same thing, and conflating the two like you are doing plays into right wing narratives that the left wants to take your penis away, while also erasing the real history of repressive social systems
actually taking people's penis away, often literally. Stop it.
No.5480
>>5477He's 100% right tho
No.5481
Why is this site so homophobic?
No.5483
>>5481Various intelligence agencies trying to prevent the left from having a presence in image board culture. The real posters here are anti-homophobic.
No.5484
>>5483So the mods are controlled by the CIA? I wouldn't be surprised.
No.5486
>>5475Such a good post, please link to your theory you learned it from
No.5487
>>5477No, you fucking moron. Male homosexuality is neither masculine nor feminine. Those guys might be masculine and gay. That's different.
No.5488
>>5481Because "Anti-IdPol" as of 2022 is an "in" for conservatives trying to rebrand.
No.5489
>>5481Its really not. Leftypol is canonically bisexual. There have been gay people here since day 1. It is the new /pol/ fascistoid edgy nazbols who have come since the Ukraine war.
No.5490
>>5489True, all of the most egregious homophobia is in the Ukraine general atm
No.5491
>>5489And mods back them up firmly. Ergo, leftypol.org has an enforced reactionary culture which naturally results in statements of violent hatred towards LGBT people, no matter how much the symptom is treated.
No.5492
>>5491I'm not sure if you're concern trolling right now
mods aren't all straight.
No.5495
>>5488"Anti-idpol" has always been white cishet*ids sperging out whenever minorities start thinking they're people
No.5496
>>5477buff gay men are still a far cry away from masculinity
No.5497
>>5496masculinity is just a moving target - if youre reasonably fit, educated and make in the 150k+ range you are more masculine than pretty much every other straight man - even with a gay ass lisp and a pastel suit. Which is kinda funny, straight men are really bottom of the barrel these days.
No.5498
Guys, I just found out I’m xenogears after someone explained to me what that gender was. From now on, I will be referred to as the “creative nothing”. Please accept and validate me my fellow LGBT comrades.
<3
No.5499
>>5498greetings xer/gears
No.5500
>>5499Thank you so much
;_;
No.5501
>>5497since when are education and income 'masculine'?
No.5502
>>5501Since… forever? I guess it became seen as less masculine after feminism and communists made it possible for womens to have a career but for most of human history "being manly" = being educated and making money to provide for your family, it's wasnt about eating raw horse testicles and doing lifting
No.5503
>>5487Yes that's what I was saying.
Work on your reading comprehension before you call people morons for your own errors.
>>5496>>5497A lot of gay men are literally indistinguishable from straight men unless you know they're gay. To say being gay is un-masculine you have to resort to "because reasons," as if having sex with women is a key part of masculinity (and there are plenty of men who are bisexual who are indistinguishable from straight men).
No.5504
>>5503You should work on your reading comprehension. Under hetero-misogynist-normativity male homosexuality is unmasculine. That was the point made in the post. It is obviously pure ideology.
No.5505
>>5504>Under hetero-misogynist-normativityStop letting this define your understanding of reality. Kill the cop in your own head. LGBT+ people already largely live on the fringes or outside these paradigms. There's no need to bring more of that baggage in.
No.5506
>>5497Masculinity is just aesthetics. It's all about whom can acquire the most, hit harder, fuck more, etc.
Masculinity is just suicidal theatrics men shame themselves and male youth into.
God forbid that appreciation and affection for men makes them feel better bcuz "that's gay" or " makes em soft".
Women, at least the young ones, are worshipped for having a vagina.
No.5507
>>5506It's more for being fertile than for having a vagine, the worship stop once they hit menopause
No.5508
>>5507That's what I meant to say.
In ancient societies, girls whom are sterile were stigmatized.
Older women were viewed as witches.
Even now, most of our female protagonists in pop culture are always young, max age of thirty five.
Older female protagonists are always given edgy/vulgar traits.
No.5509
>>5159Idol ironically is more created by adults than by underage.
It's just easier to blame kids for all faux pas bcuz they don't have rights.
No.5511
>>5510that IDPol thread on /leftypol/ showed it
these guys don't come to the conclusion that transgender people are automatically IDPol bodies and spaces shit from their ideology, they just don't want to have to have transgender people, who get drawn to communism at a higher rate as a discriminated against group, around them in organizations/parties. whatever the fuck "IDPol" is is so transient you get these chauvinist class reductionists writing speel like "identities are exclusionary" as if you can't feel yourself to be prolaterian and transgender at the same time
absolute dog shite
No.5512
>>5495There are certainly reductionist usage of the term idpol. I do however think that Ye/Jay Z/Dave Chapelle-tier "Black Capitalism" is however a form of idpol that is certainly bullshit and having useful class political terms to criticize such things is useful to have. It's just that image board cretins are reductionist because of the general culture that surrounds the memetics of "Image Boards" as a place where people vent their un-PC feelings at and be as acceptably edgy as possible. In effect the general racism is in fact merely an attempt to drive away people who just want to discuss shit without a name, and for those types of people to be able to say whatever drivel they want because they have no real reputation to defend when they get off of it. There are reasons why they "hide" Their own feelings because they are pretentious in many, many ways. I would even say that they aren't even sincerely racist or anything like that in the same way those people above are, or your average hick/yuppie is. They are ideological skin shifters.
No.5513
>>5511
>transgender people are automatically IDPol bodies and spaces shit from their ideologyi'm sorry, what?
No.5515
>>5514they aren't
that's a psyop
No.5516
>>5510Ismt this the way we treat the young?
No.5517
>>5514uyghas need to learn about anarchism
No.5518
>>349962
What? That's not /lgbt/ shit at all, the only trans peoples that are like this are on neolib twitter (the peoples with socks and globe emoji in name) and they're like 20 people maximum.
/lgbt/ards are either edgy r/stupidpol type socdems but pro-trans or strasserite larpers.
No.5519
>>5517She probably already know tho.
No.5521
>>5518yeah /lgbt/ is like the only place where having vaguely leftist opinions is even remotely acceptable.
Hell you can even criticize capitalism there unlike in the rest of 4chan where sales figures is the sole determinate of how good a piece of media is.
No.5522
>>5521/lgbt/ is basically what 4chan was before 2016 happenned
No.5525
>>5524Testosterone makes you more uninhibited/hornier so if you're bi you're more likely to pursue your same sex attraction than to keep it in the background
No.5527
>>5526I hope the /Ukraine/ thread turns out to be a honeypot to find the regulars to rangeban them. Like 99% of the site's glowie activity is either from /Ukraine/ or spills over from it.
No.5528
>>5527You think the mods are on your side? The cuckraine thread is under mod protection 24/7 while you are exiled to siberia and even here you get shit on constantly by anti-LGBT anons while the mods do nothing.
No.5529
>>5526The ukraine thread is nothing but rightists who think they're leftists because they sided with the underdog. I'm so tired of those ghouls.
>>5527>>5528Yeah mods are into it too and there is no saving this site from it, this site is in a downfall and there is not saving it from it.
No.5531
>>5529Yeah probably. It's getting close to time for another leftypol to pop up and try again on a fresh slate. Perhaps the life of a leftypoler is a nomadic one.
No.5532
>>5530 kinda getting really tired of all the crypto stormfags too pretending like they didn't just come over at the start of this year
No.5533
>>5529>The ukraine thread is nothing but rightists who think they're leftistsMore like "pretend they are leftists", because when all this shi started and i was still active on those thread, after certain amount of arguments ziggers almost always devolved into being schizo putinists talking about how putin took down oligarchs, rebuilt the russian industry and so on. Sometimes it was like "he was bad, now he is good", like he is surely gonna build communism and restore USSR.
>Yeah mods are into it too and there is no saving this site from it, this site is in a downfall and there is not saving it from it.Kinda like the whole world if i am being honest. I am not a doomer but the whole situation just doesn't look like it's gonna go in our favor, more like this is the last century of our civilization. Or maybe even a humanity.
No.5534
>>5528I made the first general associated with this sequence months ago and literally the first post on the thread was a mod moving it to Siberia for "obvious" (their word) reasons that they never spelled out. At this point I personally consider this board heavily reactionary leaning when it comes to LGBT people despite being the most leftwing image board in the English speaking world, sadly.
No.5535
>>5533>Kinda like the whole world if i am being honest. I am not a doomer but the whole situation just doesn't look like it's gonna go in our favor, more like this is the last century of our civilization. Or maybe even a humanity.LGBT people are like a canary in a coal mine. If you can't even guarantee us basic respects then let's be honest, there is no genuine desire for communism in the 21st century. This goes for boards or countries
No.5536
>>5535If you don't conflate respect with "follow what LGBTQ organizations are saying" i don't mind, but they usually glow like fuck and probably curated by real glowies to reduce class consciousness.
I will call you brother (or sister, i don't give a crap) regardless if you are trans, gay, lesbo, black, jew or whatever as long as you are for socialist revolution and proletarian dictatorship and don't do "class reductionist brocialist scum" bull.
No.5537
>>5535>If you can't even guarantee us basic respects then let's be honest, there is no genuine desire for communism in the 21st centuryThis shit is kinda telling tho. Anon, you do understand that communism is the only path to survival of humanity, right? Like if we don't build communism, we are not gonna survive as human civilization, right? Not only that we will severely fuck up our planet, so possibly we will even end as species. Anon are you telling me that you are willing to throw the fucking white flag because a couple of socialist hold less than perfect (from your perspective) views? Is that what you are telling me? That saving humanity from insane amount of suffering is not worth it if you don't get everything that you want? Please tell me i am reading you wrong.
No.5538
>>5536>If you don't conflate respect with "follow what LGBTQ organizations are saying" i don't mind, but they usually glow like fuck and probably curated by real glowies to reduce class consciousness.I probably agree with most of what they are saying though. Assuming its "dont kill us, dont put us in the wrong gender prison, let us get married etc". I don't even know what you're talking about, this seems to be a common anti-lgbt talking point. What organizations?
No.5539
>>5538And sorry to tell you but Russia and basically every middle eastern country utterly fails these criteria. As does the US. Basically everywhere in the world does. And that's before we get into proletarian liberation. I'm talking about in comparison to non-lgbt proles as things stand now. This seems to be controversial on this board ever since the Ukraine war
No.5541
>>5538>dont kill usIf you don't stand against revolution, why would we kill you? Aren't you overblowing this? Yeah i know plenty of socialist who hold somewhat boomer views on gays and shit, but i don't think there are socialist who would say somethign even remotely close to this.
>let us get marriedI mean, the institute of marriage is the product of forms of private property. With their abolishment isn't this kinda a non issue?
>What organizations?All kinda of "left" liberal organizations that tend to promote this view that opressions is like very intersectional and class is just another way of opression. This is erasure of class consciousness to the same vien is nationalism is - creation of interclass identity. You are all one because you are all americans, blacks, gays, women and so on, don't mind that some of you are capitalists, after all to properly represent your interests you just need more gays/women/blacks in the parlament/ceo positions, not some outdated proletarian revolution. If you agree with that than we are definitely not friends, more likely we are enemies, but not because you are gay or something.
No.5542
>>5537You don't understand what a canary in a coal mine is? If the canaries are dying that means that cave isn't viable for mining. We need to reorganize elsewhere and try again.
No.5544
>>5537>This shit is kinda telling tho. Anon, you do understand that communism is the only path to survival of humanity, right? Like if we don't build communism, we are not gonna survive as human civilization, right? Not only that we will severely fuck up our planet, so possibly we will even end as species. Anon are you telling me that you are willing to throw the fucking white flag because a couple of socialist hold less than perfect (from your perspective) views? Is that what you are telling me? That saving humanity from insane amount of suffering is not worth it if you don't get everything that you want? Please tell me i am reading you wrong.Nice, I express that I'm lgbt and I expect rights for lgbt people and you immediately start talking at me as if I'm not a communist and start communist-splaining me based on that assumption. This is part if the problem. How is what I said implying any of the nonsense you said after your first sentence? Analyze your unconscious biases and figure out why you immediately assumed I'm not a communist.
Now let's communist-splain you a bit. What makes you think proles can assume socialism or communism are developing well if there are still segments of the population even capable if maintaining their original capitalist-maintained oppressions even after a socialism is supposedly under construction ? Maybe you misunderstood the meaning if the phrase "canary in the coal mine". When the coal mine runs out of air the canary dies first before the human miners. If the humans see the dead canary they immediately evacuate the mine because something is wrong. Similarly, if lgbt proles are being oppressed still, something is wrong, something that is probably still affecting or can or will affect non-lgbt proles in the near future.
No.5545
>>5541I'm talking about present reality anon not some hypothetical future where are proposing where you are in charge lmao. Wtf
No.5546
>>5533>pretend they are leftistsSome of them pretend, other are sincere, they think leftism is just being a contrarian and nothing else.
> more like this is the last century of our civilization. Or maybe even a humanity.Civilization will go on for a while it'll just get worse.
>>5534To be fair an lgbt general would had been a magnet for trolling but if the mods can babysit the ukraine general they should babysit the lgbt general too
>>5535If we can't guarantee lgbt rights then no other rights can be guaranteed because it means the ruling class is not willing to make concessions or negotiate.
rights and freedoms have to be universal and we have to fight for the rights we don't use or else we're harming the rights we do use.
Also holy shit the replays to this post are awful "i have no prioblem with gays as long they're on the side of the revolution", I hate this messianic talk about revolution where people wants to sit down, do some preformative acts and expect people to revolt by themselves, deplorable.
No.5548
>>5546>>5546>Also holy shit the replays to this post are awful "i have no prioblem with gays as long they're on the side of the revolution", I hate this messianic talk about revolution where people wants to sit down, do some preformative acts and expect people to revolt by themselves, deplorable.Right. Anon even LARPs as if he's part of "we" who is doing killing. Lmao:
>If you don't stand against revolution, why would we kill you No.5549
>>5542That's an idiotic position. Socialist aren't some ubermensch who can just ignore material conditions. We grew up in capitalist society, we are irreversibly fucked by it. Expecting for socialists to be some kind of pure ideal representation of all that is good and not holding several reactionary or just retarded views is even more retarded.
Read what Lenin write about socialism and religion
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htmWhile it is obvious that religious institutions are instruments of oppression of the ruling class, doesn't mean that socialist can't be religious for precisely stated above reasons. If you gonna wait for perfect socialists you might as well slit your wrists because the only thing that you will get from that waiting is fascists taking over and burning people like you on a stake or something.
>>5544> you immediately start talking at me as if I'm not a communistThat's not what i have said. What i reacted to was you saying "we don't need communism unless it exactly what i want". Yes, let's abondon the idea of freeing the humanity for endless suffering of class society and commodity production. from slavery and war because after all some socialist may not be too ken on gay marriage (not that the marriage itself gonna exist most likely when communism is achieved). That is the kind of thinking i am talking about. And that has nothing to do with your orientation, i say same things to everybody because most people have some sort of brainworm from capitalism that works against class consciousness wherever it is gay rights, nationalism, feminism, veganism, liberalism or whatever. Personally i am fine with gays and if you want to get married (for some reason that completely eludes me) be my guest. You probably gonna be pissed that i put nationalism and feminism in the same place, but if you think about what i have said, you may understand why.
It's not a canary is some fucking coal mine, it's you engaging in some purism and not gettig you priorities straight.
>>5545Present reality is precisely what i am talking about. I guess it jsut didn't hit you yet. Don't worry, when you are dying from starvation in some bombed to shit ruins or worked to death in some concentration camp it may dawn on you that maybe gays marrying in any church wasn't exactly the proper hill to die on. By that time i will probably be dead to, so i wouldn't be able to say "see, i was right all along".
>>5546>Some of them pretend, other are sincere, they think leftism is just being a contrarian and nothing else.Yeah, probably. We have a lot of schizo in Russia who think that communism is when you pray to icon of Stalin in orthodox church.
No.5550
>>5548>I hate this messianic talk about revolution where people wants to sit down, do some preformative acts and expect people to revolt by themselves, deplorable.This is just projection, you know?
No.5551
>>5549You don't have to be an ubermensch to not be a homophobe, fucking retard scumbag. Sick of your kind
No.5552
>>5546>rights and freedoms have to be universal and we have to fight for the rights we don't use or else we're harming the rights we do use.This is just some idealistic bullshit. No rights are universal, they are always concrete and specific. And also always divided by class lines.
No.5553
>>5549>maybe gays marrying in any church wasn't exactly the proper hill to die onWho is dying on any hills. If you can't even get basic lines right like "let gay people do everything straight people can" then give up already, such a great "socialist"
No.5554
>>5552Stop talking in abstractions. These are very concrete oppressions were talking about here.
>don't let it be legal to murder gay people>don't make it illegal for gay people to appear in public>don't put trans women in men's prisonsEtc
Youre so far removed you have to deflect and pretend anon is speaking about ideal utopia when they are really speaking concretely
No.5555
>>5551>You don't have to be an ubermensch to not be a homophobe, fucking retard scumbag. Sick of your kindIn what way i am homophobe? I don't hate gays, i don't hate them marrying or being on movies and shit, i always benn pretty openminded about stuff like that. But i do think i hate you, not because you are gay (if you are), but because you are some liberal holier than thou asshat, probably living in some rich regiong, fat on imperialist gains and values his multicultural pluralism more than you value actual emancipation of humankind because you enver bothered to check your privilige.
>>5553As proles we have to unite around our class interests first and fremost. First because it's what will allow us to bring most of the good to everybody, second because it's the only shit that will work. Splitting because of views on some really unimportant stuff liek gay marriage only works against us all regardless of position. Eventually our society will be progressive enough that we will achieve all that good shit, but it's not gonna happen now.
If you wanna bring forth the actual revolution you will have to work with people you don't always agree on, wherever it would be some religious nutjob, homophobe or just an asshole like me. Otherwise we all will loose.
No.5556
>>5555Stop larping. Youre in the lgbt thread. I can write that same shit you are writing right niw too yiu know.
Do some self crit and find out why lgbt people are sick of you not even giving us 10 forum posts of consideration let alone rights after your made up revolution. Now you call me a liberal too. I think k youre a larper. Retard
No.5557
>>5554>don't let it be legal to murder gay peopleHow about just "don't let it be legal to murder people"? Are you talking about some middle eastern or african countries? Because even in Russia (we are mildly homophobic) you won't get off with crap like that. Murder is murder.
>don't make it illegal for gay people to appear in publicOk.
>don't put trans women in men's prisonsCan we put trans men in women's prisons tho?
On a serious note the prison system gonna be reworked heavily. Separation by gender would probably one thing i abolish entirely. Maybe with the exception of some really nasty stuff like rapists, murderers and serial killers.
No.5558
>>5556>Youre in the lgbt thread.I actually didn't notice. I was browsing siberia and saw post shitting on ziggers and joined.
>sick of you not even giving us 10 forum posts of considerationFucker, am i the mod or something? If it would be in my power i wouldn't put serious thread in siberia. The ukraine clown shit deserves it more.
No.5559
>>5557I don't think you know how bad the situation is anon. Its literally legal to murder trans women in the US using "trans panic defense". And its u officially legal to abuse and murder lgbt people in general almost universally, who do not get fair trials in many scenarios.
And no shit we need orison abolition. But in present reality trans women are used as political pawns in prison and are almost guaranteed to get raped and get aids. So we need reformism for those ones right now in the present. Don't call that liberalism or fuck off
No.5560
>>5558No excuse, we need good lines on lgbt rights in every thread not just this one. Start defending g us against anti-lgbt comrades.
No.5561
Reactionary distraction, doesn't serve the working class.
No.5562
>>5561>Reactionary distraction, doesn't serve the working class.Lgbt people are working class. And most working class people have an lgbt person in their social group. Kys
No.5563
>>5559> Its literally legal to murder trans women in the US using "trans panic defense".If that is true, US is way worse than Russia. Kinda ironic.
On the other hand i am pretty sure that those who can exercise this right are people with power and money or cops, right? You should see that opression even when done to minority that wouldn't suffer that oppression otherwise is still going along the class character. For some reason i don't think a poor prole can do that or that a rich trans person that can hire bodyguards, live in a guarded neighborhood and have amazing surgeries and medical attention to look more like standard image of a woman would be in danger.
For example we have a congressmen that hit a child with a car and the court allowed him to settle things with money. Does it mean it's legal in Russia to kill children? It's not a question of legality, it's a question of power and such power comes from being capitalist (or doing some important work for him like being a cop keeping proles in line).
>But in present reality trans women are used as political pawns in prison and are almost guaranteed to get raped and get aids.yeah, your prisons are even wrose than ours. Tough we do get some horrible shit happen too. Like there were news relatively about cops torturing a prisoner by raping him with a broom. Again, if you are rich you can get to much better prisons or not even get thee at all. You do understand that your problems coming not from beign trans or gay (i still don't know who you are in this regard), buut fromn being a (relatively) poor prole in a society where money cna buy you anything from bubblegum to sex change to "justice"? And still you think that if there are socialist that dont' have utterly progressive views on sexuality and orientation then we don't need socialism at all? Don't you understand that in a socialist society you will get shitload of advantages even if they don't permit gay marriages? I mean look at Cuba, they didn't start very progressive in that regard, but they have changed to the better because socialism allows for progress and betterment of society. Capitalism doesn't.
No.5564
>>5560>No excuse, we need good lines on lgbt rights in every thread not just this one. Start defending g us against anti-lgbt comrades.I always profess my views on sexual orientation if they are relevant.
But also, fuck you. If you are not willing to work for bringing socialism closer just because od some stupid shit like gay marriage then i don't really care about you. Defend yourself.
>>5562>Lgbt people are working class. Obviously most are, some aren't. The point is not just being working class, but having class consciousness. If you think like a pork it doesn't matter that you are working class. If you think that you a gay first and foremost and only then you are working class - same shit. Temporarily embarassed millionaries my ass.
No.5565
>>5552>This is just some idealistic bullshit. No rights are universal, they are always concrete and specific. And also always divided by class lines.you could go further on and explain how rights are not real and just spooks. But rights are starting point inside the ideological apparatus and if we're not fighting for "rights" and "welfare" then we're not fighting for socialism.
>>5561>>5562Working class is anyone who lives under wage labor, anybody can be working class and that's why the wellbeing and welfare of minorities and socially vulnerable people are also the wellbeing and welfare of the working class.
No.5566
>>5563>You do understand that your problems coming not from beign trans or gayExplain why one of the most rich and famous trans women in the world was recently put into a men's prison in the US
https://www.opb.org/article/2022/11/10/transgender-beauty-influencer-mens-jail-miami-arrest/ No.5567
>>5564>Defend yourself. Like we ever have a choice. I don't care about socialism anymore. Solidarity is just a fucking pipe dream.
No.5568
>>5567Let's keep in mind these are just dumbass comrades who need to touch grass. Only socialism can liberate us too, even if even socialists are pitiful when it comes to even bothering to try to understand or care about our position, even in our own thread. Solidarity comrade
No.5569
>>5565>you could go further on and explain how rights are not real and just spooks.Kinda the opposite of what i have said. Maybe read Lenin? I dunno.
>But rights are starting point inside the ideological apparatus and if we're not fighting for "rights" and "welfare" then we're not fighting for socialism.They aren't really. You should read more. And we definitely don't fight for "welfare". Well, maybe you do.
>Working class is anyone who lives under wage labor, anybody can be working class and that's why the wellbeing and welfare of minorities and socially vulnerable people are also the wellbeing and welfare of the working class.If many lgbt people are working class then helping working class is helping lgbt people. And should be the first priority. If you can't get behind that then it's on you.
>>5566>Explain why one of the most rich and famous trans women in the world was recently put into a men's prison in the US<Turner Guilford Knight Correctional CenterSome minimum security fucking resort for rich people. I fucking live in worse conditions.
>>5567>I don't care about socialism anymore. Solidarity is just a fucking pipe dream.So why should i care about you? Like, for serious? Tbh it was obvious from the start which is why i pressed it and gave you so much shit. If solidarity is pipe dream then the only ting left for you is to screech about homophobic brocialists and priviliged cis white men while the world declines in absolute reactionary shitholw and we all fucked either by nuclear war or climate change. Because you couldn't put aside some of your sensitivities and make priorities. I mean i hate religious nutjobs, but i work with them. Why can't you?
>>5568>even if even socialists are pitiful when it comes to even bothering to try to understand or care about our position, even in our own thread.I do understand your position, what is there not to understand? Perhaps you don't understand your own position fully.
No.5570
>>5569Fuck off anon. Keep coming in the lgbt thread lecturing us about not prioritizing the working class as an abstraction rather than in specifics. For lgbt people, a sizeable portion of the working class, the specifics differ from non-lgbt people in many notable ways. You just want to tell us to shut up. So I tell you to. Fuck off retard.
No.5571
>>351689
NEW BREAD
No.5572
>>5570One of you literally said he doesn't care about socialism. Yeah, that's what i was talking from the start - brainwashed with invented interclass identity.
>Keep coming in the lgbt threadMotehrfucker, this is a left wing board. I have more reason to actually ask what they fuck are you doing here even, if you are not about prioritizing worker class?
>Fuck off retard.Same to you pork sucker. Vote blu more, maybe that will stop fascits.
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