leftypol's day of the sun edition
<if we dont have inbred monarchs ruling over us people will resort to cannibalism
64 posts and 119 image replies omitted.>Wherefore let us resolve upon that, that it is lawful for any stranger to kill a Tyrant; that is to say a man of all men infamous, and notorious for the oppression, murder, and slaughter of his subjects and people. But as for subjects to do the same, it is to be known whether the prince that bears rule be an Absolute Sovereign; or not: for if he be no Absolute Sovereign, then must the Sovereignty of necessity be either in the People, or in the Nobility: in which case there is no doubt, but that it is lawful to proceed against a Tyrant by way of justice, if so men may prevail against him: or else by way of fact, and open force, if they may not otherwise have reason. As the Senate did in the first case against Nero: and in the other against Maxi∣minus: for that the Roman Emperours were at the first nothing else but princes of the Commonweal, that is to say the chief and principal men, the sovereignty nevertheless still resting in the People and the Senate: as I have before showed, that this Commonweal was then to have been called a principality: although that Seneca speaking in the person of Nero his scholar says: I am the only man amongst living men, elect and chosen to be the Lieutenant of God on earth: I am the Arbitrator of life and death: I am able at my pleasure to dispose of the state and quality of every man. True it is that he took upon him this Sovereign authority by force wrested from the Senate and people of Rome: but in right he had it not, the state being but a very principality, wherein the People had the Sovereignty. As is also that of the Venetians, who condemned to death their Duke Falier, and also executed many others, without form or fashion of any lawful process: forasmuch as Venice is an Aristocratical principality, wherein the Duke is but the first or chief man, sovereignty still remaining in the state of the Venetian Gentlemen. As is likewise the Germain Empire, which is also nothing else but an Aristocratical principality, wherein the the Emperour is head and chief, the power and majesty of the Empire belonging unto the States thereof: who thrust out of the government Adolphus the emperour in the year 1296: and also after him Wenceslaus in the year 1400, and that by way of justice, as having jurisdiction and power over them. So also might we say of the state of the Lacedemonians, which was a pure Oligarchy, wherein were two kings, without any sovereignty at all, beingPost too long. Click here to view the full text. <Howbeit that the most learned divines, and of best understanding, are clear of opinion, that it is not lawful for a man not only to kill his Sovereign Prince, but even to rebel against him, without an especial and undoubtful commandment from God; as we read of Jehu, who was chosen of God, and by the prophet anointed king of Israel, with express commandment utterly to root out all the house of king Achab. He before as a subject had right patiently borne all his wickedness and outrages. Yea the most cruel murders and torturing of the most holy prophets, and religious men, the unworthy murders, banishments, and proscriptions of the subjects; as also the most detestable witchcraft of queen Jezebel: yet for all that durst he attempt nothing against his Sovereign Prince, until he had express commandment from God, by the mouth of his prophet, whom God indeed so assisted, as that with a small power he slew two kings, caused seventy of king Achab his children to be put to death, with many other princes of the kings of Israel and of Juda, and all the idolatrous priests of Baal, that is to say of the Sunne, after that he had caused Jesabel the queen, to be cast headlong down from an high tower, and left her body to be torn in pieces and eaten up of dogs.
>But we are not to apply this especial commandment of God, unto the conspiracies and rebellions of mutinous subjects against their Sovereign Princes. And as for that which Calvin says, if there were at this time magistrates appointed for the defense of the people, and to restrain the insolency of kings, as were the Ephori in Lacedemonia, the Tribunes in Rome, and he Demarches in Athens, that they ought to resist and impeach their licentiousnesse and crueltie: he sheweth sufficiently, that it was never lawful in a right Monarchy, to assault the prince, neither to attempt the life or honour of their Sovereign King: for he speaks not but of the popular and Aristocratique states of Commonwealths. And we have before showed, that the kings of Lacedemonia were no more but plain Senators and captains: and when he speaks of states, he says, Possibly, not daring to assure any thing. Howbeit that there is a notable difference betwixt the attempting of the honour of his prince, and the withstanding of his tyranny; between killing his king, and the opposing of ones self against his cruelty.
I feel more sympathetic to Hobbes' positions than Jean Bodin.
Thomas Hobbes: The Causes of Rebellion:<The things that dispose to rebellion. Discontent, pretence, and hope of success>To dispose men to sedition three things concur. The first is Discontent; for as long as a man thinks himself well, and that the present government stands not in his way to hinder his proceeding from well to better; it is impossible for him to desire the change thereof. The second is Pretence of right; for though a man be discontent, yet if in his own opinion there be no just cause of stirring against, or resisting the government established, nor any pretence to justify his resistance, and to procure aid, he will never show it. The third is Hope of success; for it were madness to attempt without hope, when to fail is to die the death of a traitor. Without these three: discontent, pretence, and hope, there can be no rebellion; and when the same are all together, there wanteth nothing thereto, but a man of credit to set up the standard, and to blow the trumpet.Two Sorts of Discontent>And as for discontent, it is of two sorts: for it consisteth either in bodily pain present or expected, or else in trouble of the mind (which is the general division of pleasure and pain, Part I. chap. VII, sect. 9). The presence of bodily pain disposes not to sedition; the fear of it does. As for example: when a great multitude, or heap of people, have concurred to a crime worthy of death, they join together, and take arms to defend themselves for fear thereof. So also the fear of want, or in present want the fear of arrests and imprisonment, dispose to sedition. And therefore great exactions, though the right thereof be acknowledged, have caused great seditions. As in the time of Henry VII. the seditions of the Cornish men that refused to pay a subsidy, and, under the conduct of the Lord Audley, gave the King battle upon Blackheath; and that of the northern people, who in the same king’s time, for demanding a subsidy granted in parliament, murdered the Earl of Northumberland in his house.
>Thirdly, the other sort of discontent which troubleth the mPost too long. Click here to view the full text.<Rebellion, a condition of war>because the nature of this offence, consists in renouncing of subjection; which is a relapse into the condition of war, commonly called Rebellion; and they that so offend, suffer not as Subjects, but as Enemies. For Rebellion, is but war renewed.
<Hurt To Revolted Subjects Is Done By Right Of War, Not By Way Of Punishment>Lastly, Harme inflicted upon one that is a declared enemy, fals not under the name of Punishment: Because seeing they were either never subject to the Law, and therefore cannot transgresse it; or having been subject to it, and professing to be no longer so, by consequence deny they can transgresse it, all the Harmes that can be done them, must be taken as acts of Hostility. But in declared Hostility, all infliction of evill is lawfull. From whence it followeth, that if a subject shall by fact, or word, wittingly, and deliberatly deny the authority of the Representative of the Common-wealth, (whatsoever penalty hath been formerly ordained for Treason,) he may lawfully be made to suffer whatsoever the Representative will: For in denying subjection, he denyes such Punishment as by the Law hath been ordained; and therefore suffers as an enemy of the Common-wealth; that is, according to the will of the Representative. For the Punishments set down in the Law, are to Subjects, not to Enemies; such as are they, that having been by their own act Subjects, deliberately revolting, deny the Soveraign Power.
<The Punishment Of Innocent Subjects Is Contrary To The Law Of Nature>All Punishments of Innocent subjects, be they great or little, are against the Law of Nature; For Punishment is only of Transgression of the Law, and therefore there can be no Punishment of the Innocent. It is therefore a violation, First, of that Law of Nature, which forbiddeth all men, in their Revenges, to look at any thing but some future good: For there can arrive no good to the Common-wealth, by Punishing the Innocent. Secondly, of that, which forbiddeth Ingratitude: For seeing all Soveraign Power, is originally given by the consent of every one of the Subjects, to the end they should as long as they are obedient, be protected thereby; the Punishment of the Innocent, is aPost too long. Click here to view the full text.