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'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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I was told that this video on 'Hitlers Socialism' by TIK was an absolute gotcha to Marxists and I know his channel and he does some good vids so I thought I'd give it a watch at least and immediately he says he was once a Marxist Socialist and he was taught that stuff at university and then his definition of capitalism is muh free market and that the state manipulating prices and planning stuff therefore means it isn't real capitalism as opposed to, you know, MCM (he correctly points out that yes markets don't equal capitalism automatically), using 2021 right libertarian definitions that would mean that almost any actually existing capitalist economy isn't really capitalist (even neoliberal ones).

Why are they like this, anons? Why are all of these rightoids who say they used to be a Marxist never actually demonstrating that they even took in the basic concepts? Every. Fucking. Time.
38 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>17582

So what? Plenty of capitalist regimes have done stuff that benefits workers for a time and institutionalised social gains. And?

Socialism is about the political agency and representation of the organised working class *as a class*. It is identified with maintaining the social gains got in part by those movements in the past (expansions of the social wage, healthcare, welfare, sick pay etc - there's plenty of 'big state' expenditure that isn't generally linked to that tradition).

And once again all of this stuff can be pointed to as stuff that plenty of capitalists governments do - including price controls and wage controls (that's trying to maintain inflation and growth rates and?). A lot of this stuff was common to social democratic and non social democratic capitalist economies in the early to mid 20th century.

Ataturk's Turkey saw massive expansion of public works and provisions for workers. It was as a state project especially in the one party period a viciously ethnonationalist anti-communist, anti-socialist political project. If all of these anti-communists and anti-socialists who murder trade unionists throughout history have no problem running regimes that do nice things for workers every now and then and do state intervention then perhaps its you who has the false definition of what 'socialism' is, not them.

Socialism is about THE POLITICAL POWER OF THE WORKING CLASS AS THE WORKING CLASS. Say it again. I know its hard for ameriburgers to get into their heads because they have so little of any sort of social wage from their state that they conflate it with socialism in general

>>17546
> that would mean that almost any actually existing capitalist economy isn't really capitalist (even neoliberal ones).
That’s pretty much correct. Most modern economies are dominated by corporations, which are publicly-owned entities and have fiat currency as opposed to commodity-money. We’ve pretty much been living in socialism since the financial collapse of 1929 and we simply haven’t realized it

>>17565 Franco and Pinochet are authoritarian conservatives not fascists

>>17546
hitler explicitly killed the left leaning socialists in his party. anyone who calls hitler a socialist is either a misinformation agent, or historically illiterate (or both).

>>17600
Not true. He made Richard Walter “agricultural Bolshevik” Darre the head of the Reich Food Estate.



 

I've been scratching my head about this for a while. I can't quite wrap my head around the cause of mass shootings. I'm inclined to chalk it up to burger brainrot, but there's not much unique about modern America that explains why this is a problem now but not historically. Is it alienation? Is it a symptom of an empire in decline, and if so, why isn't it more prevalent in other decaying countries that also have lots of guns like Russia or the dessicated husk of Yugoslavia? What gives, Leftypol?
19 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>15962
…Based take?

It is alienation. The types of discrimination that are most common in capitalistic societies such as racism & misogyny lead to bullying in the young population, and the problems escalate from there. The reason it’s gotten worse or happened at all in a country like Albania is because of its proximity to the empire and its ambitions, i.e. Kosovo.

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stochastic terrorism

Agricultural and industrial collapse in the US heartland beginning in the late 20th century




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Any thoughts on this? For a quick primer, cliodynamics is basically quantitative historical analysis. Using what amounts to big data analytics, it builds computer models of macrohistorical trends to identify patterns and predict developments. By this method Turchin himself has claimed to have discovered certain formulas for civil unrest, though Marxist theorists could have told you most of that without the models. He claims that many years ago he predicted that civilization would enter an age of instability starting in the 2020s.

Some of cliodynamic's findings are as follows: Societies tend to function in circular centennial patterns of uptrends and downtrends, “an alternation of integrative and disintegrative phases lasting for roughly a century” as he puts it . The three most robust predictive metrics for societal collapse are a wealth disparity and declining wages, "elite overproduction" (too many highly educated people with not enough positions of power for them to fill), and an increase in public debt. Another is what he calls the "wealth pump" , where wealth is funneled up to the rich away from the poor, which usually marks the end of the integrative phase and the beginning of the disintegrative phase.
He claims to identify four major power sectors, the militaristic, financial, bureaucratic and ideological, which in good times, remain aligned, but begin to fall out of joint with one another and begin to squabble.

In my opinion, I like data based models. However, a model is not an explanatory theory. It is inert. And in that sense, Turchin does not go far enough. He has snapshots, but does not tie them together, probably because he wouldn't like where it would lead him: to Marx.
8 posts omitted.

>>16413
>By this method Turchin himself has claimed to have discovered certain formulas for civil unrest, though Marxist theorists could have told you most of that without the models
When scientists and analytic philosophers discover the same shit as political theorists and continental philosophers several centuries later.

More reasons to be well-versed in disciplines outside of STEM. Take that, scientologists!

>>16422
It's the same deal with math.

i came across turchin a long time ago because i was a neet with lots of time on my hands obsessed with patter and cycles in history, thinking i could find some secret patterns to help me tell the future.
Whats funny is that he uses science to analyze history but it comes off like some weirdo shit

>>16420
I understand the point that you are making through irony, but these theories are not really about the structural causes of unemployment, but about the consequences and some vague correlations
doesn't seem very useful but I guess the guy is filling his white paper quota or some other grift

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The difference between pseudoscience and science is that scientists can make predictions that actually come true.
What has he predicted that came true?
Great, now please put it where the AGW models belong.

>He claims that many years ago he predicted that civilization would enter an age of instability starting in the 2020s

I never saw as many people conforming to commands given by the ruling class as in 2020.



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some soviet defector to Canada named Igor Gouzenko wrote a self-sucking autobiography called The Fall of a Titan after defecting to the West and exposing a soviet spy ring immediately after WW2. Some people point to this as the start of the cold war in public consciousness since he did this 3 days after WW2 ended, basically creating an "our soviet allies betrayed us!!!" narrative in the public opinion of countries like the USA.

But what I find really interesting about his book is that it's basically like some 1940s Yeonmi Park type shit.

This guy rose through the ranks of soviet society for his academic achievement, and lived better than most people, and was already staying in Canada for his job, and had a lot of material comforts. He ultimately defected because he wanted to make money being a professional defector.

The thing about his book I find funniest is its cover. The publisher at the time wanted to put a picture of Stalin on the cover, but for some reason they ended up with a picture of Maxim Gorky, who had already been dead for over a decade. Why? Not sure. Maybe they found Stalin too handsome. Maybe they confused a photo of Gorky for a photo of Stalin. Maybe they just thought the cover would go harder with a picture of Gorky.

This high profile soviet defector went on TV wearing what looks like a klan hood, brandishing a book whose cover is Gorky for some reason.

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can't even find this on libgen



 

Hmm… Sounds familiar….

Michael Parenti argues that the NATO intervention in Yugoslavia was not motivated by humanitarian concerns, but rather was driven by economic interests and a desire to establish military control over the region. He critiques Western media coverage of the conflict and argues that the West was complicit in the violence. Ultimately, he concludes that the NATO bombing campaign only exacerbated ethnic divisions within Yugoslavia and set back any potential progress towards peace in the Balkan region.


• Parenti claims that NATO's intervention in Yugoslavia was motivated primarily by geopolitical considerations and a desire to establish military bases throughout Eastern Europe. He sees little evidence of genuine concern for protecting civilians or promoting democracy in the region.
• He accuses Western media outlets of providing biased coverage that painted Bosnian Muslims as innocent victims and demonized Serbs as brutish aggressors. This framing, according to Parenti, helped pave the way for NATO military action.
• While acknowledging the crimes committed by Serb forces against civilian populations, Parenti argues that similar war crimes occurred at the hands of Croat and Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) armed groups. Yet these actions garnered far less attention and condemnation from Western leaders and media outlets.
• Parenti contends that NATO's bombardment of Serbia resulted in numerous civilian casualties and failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting stability or deterring future aggression. Instead, he suggests, the attacks only further destabilized the region and contributed to long-term suffering among ordinary citizens caught in the crossfire.
• Parenti believes that NATO's intervention marked a dangerous precedent for unilateral use of force without clear legal authority or universal support from the global community. This trend, in his
• He emphasizes the deep historical roots of conflicts in the Balkans and the ways in which European powers played significant roles in shaping regional boundaries and identities over centuries. Understanding these dynamics helps explain why contemporary events unfolded as they did.
• Parenti criticizes liberal intellectuals who endorse imperial policies under the guise of supporting human rights or anti-fascism. He urges readers to challenge such facile justifications and insPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
18 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>17540
forgot to add: this class was concentrated in the capital/north, while the coast was underdeveloped. Coast is where most soldiers/sailors for the A-H navy came from. The coast is also where a large portion of partisans came from. 1st and 2nd Dalmatian Brigade was instrumental in Bosnia and repelling the Axis forces.

What helped the partisans in Croatia was that Croatia was unified in name only (still is). In the middle, the part separating the capital and Slavonija, from Istria and coast was where a lot of Serbs came hundreds of years ago. Hence the best part to move materiel and personnel from north to coast was never fully controlled by Ustashe, saboteurs were a nuisance and Nazi Germany had to commit more and more forces to quash the saboteurs. It all turned around in 1943 after the failures of operations Weiss and Schwarz, and the failure of Nazis to take Stalingrad. Ustashe battalions had to be sent to the eastern front. Then it just became a matter of when, not if.

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>>17524
>I wanna say racist shit, and not get banned for it
>I know, I'll put on a Tankie flag!
>banned anyway

>>17539
i'm always surprised when anons have such extensive knowledge of individual nations .but then again i'm a stupid ass burger so that's probably why

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can you spot what's wrong with this pic?

>>17544
calling Bosnians Muslims? counting Montenegrins as separate from Serbs? ditto for Macedonians maybe?



 

how has the board missed the work of Vivek Chibber?
>dunks on pomo leftists
>dunks on thirdworldists
>dunks on defeatist Christoid Western Marxists and their deathism and glorification of suffering
>the reason India and Africa are so poorly developed isn't because they're overexploited but because the peasantry has not had their land taken from them, that is, because they haven't been exploited enough
<Rescuing the Left From Its Obsession With Culture — Vivek Chibber
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=EQ5gLuk06TU
<Slavoj Zizek vs Vivek Chibber: What Is Ideology?
https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=rLNSzxzEbKU
this man is the personification of this board and I refuse to believe otherwise
198 posts and 31 image replies omitted.

We need to get Chibber on here just for the spectacle of watching the guy verbally slap down the schizos and crypto-reactionaries on here

>>14125
>Lenin here is saying that socialism is being consummated in the west by the exploitation of peripheral nations.
Yet in no moment western nations ever had vanguard parties taking power for good, achieving any control over the MoP or establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat, worse, socialism lost power in these nations and replaced with a wish to become a social democracy that don't break with any relation of capitalism, especially imperialism.
lenin here is just wrong that the exploitation of the periphery would bring a revolution in the west, a hundred years have passed and this never happened, with and without the USSR here.

>>14127
Literally the vanguard party in America that led it to develop socialism with the use of colonial proletariat exploitation for the benefit of the homeland was the Democratic Party that led the new deal to cultivate the social fabric of American workers being accustomed to white picket fences and 75K annual salaries and whatnot. Furthermore, the rate of profit has consistently been falling as you know since you are on this site, this realistically means that profit planning is becoming a reactionary way to conduct economics, and more and more firms in America are abandoning profit planning to just maintain their monopolies on the world market which they use to feed their homeland. This is America becoming socialist. It’s just not the same socialism as the USSR had built, it’s more of a bourgeois socialism.

>>14128
>bourgeois socialism

>>14129
Yes it’s literally in the communist manifesto you dumb retard. Marx talks about like eleven types of socialism.



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Wouldn't it be a mess if we couldn't exchange things?
Do we have examples of what a communist, money-less world would be like?

I get that the world is supposed to be moneyless, and that ultimately any world where we exchange commodities would be capitalistic, but I just can't grasp how that is even possible.
25 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>19824
nice bait

>>19797
>Do we have examples of what a communist, money-less world would be like?
The average household.

>>19824
You use a different definition of state than Marxists.
For Marxists, a state is a tool used to suppress classes for the benefit of one class. If we have a global state, with no more classes, it's no longer a state. What this means is that it no longer needs to stand above society to oppress certain classes and becomes something hardly recognisable as a coherent state.
The state remains a state of there are outside bourgoies forces trying to undermine it.

>>19827
to add upon this anons definition, state and govs are two different things in marxism. In marxism, after the withering away of the state, there will still be an administrative body with laws, public service and etc. Its just that it wont be a state since it wont be used for class oppression or control.

>>19800
That already happens. It's called being rich



 

I just finished reading it and I think it is a great book. But what do you anons think about it?
Is this work racist and reactionary or does it tells the reality about the African scramble, what is your perspective. And if you have not read it, I strongly recommend you guys to read it as soon as possible.
18 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>17328
>It's adjacent to the "Africans were enslaving each other!" type of argument tbh.
agreed, i actually say as much a bit further down in the post but i don't blame you for reaching that part, it was a bit long winded lol

>>17326
>matter of quantity not quality tho
the Holocaust isn't unique in quantity even in the context of WW2. operation Barbarossa beats it handily. lib historians don't count the latter despite its clear genocidal intent, because it happened to dirty gommie slavs. the colonization of the Americas outdoes both
the industrial and calculated nature of the Holocaust is what sets it apart I think. very German
>>17327
lib historians are incapable of this kind of analysis, especially in the current postmodern period

>>17312
>>17311
pretty sure conrad wrote the book after witnessing atrocities in the Belgian Congo

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>>17331
>Belgian Congo
oh god, that mess

>>17332
>let's give him a hand, people
lmao



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Did Falangists and National Syndicalists switch allegiance to the Republicans following Franco's control of the JONS labor union?
>>I have encountered Spanish Flangeits and National Syndicalists who dislike Franco and support Marxism-Leninism.
- Some of these individuals have read Marx and Lenin and believe that ideologically loyal members of the JONS joined the Republicans to protest Franco's takeover of the Union.

>>the only case I have found of this being true was Ramiro Ledesma Ramos who was later shot by the CNT apart from that can't find any other sources so I am here to ask you anons if you can find any other sources of this happening.

<<also, I had to read their Retraded theory ew.
10 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>13918
>>1484268
>>1484266
Ok we get it holy shit

>>13919 i was fixing my spelling's

>>13919
because i am not English

>>13916
Franco let the Natsyns exist becaue they were popular due to German and Italy influence on the whole Europe during the early 20th century. When Franco saw that the fascism ship was sinking, he purged the Natsyns and he became more of a classic strong-man military religious dictator. During WW2 Franco even wore suits and stuff to imitate Hitler.

>>13911 Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Decree_(Spain,_1937)
Franco forcibly merged all Nationalist factions of the Spanish Civil War into one party that retained the name and symbols of the the Falange but was no longer an ideological monolith



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Is Michael Parenti a leftist worth reading or is there someone who does what he does better? I've heard people saying there are better Marxist historians but they don't seem to ever cite any. If I should bother whit him which works are best?
47 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>15478
Maybe not arguing specific policy, but the man certainly critiques policy while alluding to something better- for example, he's aware Tibet was a fucked theocracy, but he has also pointed out that it is being heavily exploited by China in general, and he believes that advocating for an independent tibet is far from the socialist line. He will criticise socialist movements, and policies- even though he supported Yugoslavia, he also knew that their policy relating to IMF loans was a dumb move- likewise, he's critical of what China is doing to Tibet and argues that people calling for Tibetan independence aren't necessarily wrong, but it shouldn't be an independant Tibet with the DaLai Llama put back in power.

https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/

>In the 1990s, the Han, the ethnic group comprising over 95 percent of China’s immense population, began moving in substantial numbers into Tibet. On the streets of Lhasa and Shigatse, signs of Han colonization are readily visible. Chinese run the factories and many of the shops and vending stalls. Tall office buildings and large shopping centers have been built with funds that might have been better spent on water treatment plants and housing. Chinese cadres in Tibet too often view their Tibetan neighbors as backward and lazy, in need of economic development and “patriotic education.” During the 1990s Tibetan government employees suspected of harboring nationalist sympathies were purged from office, and campaigns were once again launched to discredit the Dalai Lama. Individual Tibetans reportedly were subjected to arrest, imprisonment, and forced labor for carrying out separatist activities and engaging in “political subversion.” Some were held in administrative detention without adequate food, water, and blankets, subjected to threats, beatings, and other mistreatment. [45]


>Tibetan history, culture, and certainly religion are slighted in schools. Teaching materials, though translated into Tibetan, focus mainly on Chinese history and culture. Chinese family planning regulations allow a three-child limit for Tibetan families. (There is only a one-child limit for Han families throughout China, and a two-child limit for rural Han families whose first ch
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Why should I care what Parenti has to say?

>>15481
i dunno, why should i answer your question?

>>15462
>>15461
>>15460
The greatest Marxist work on the subject of class struggle in the Roman period is G. E. M. de Ste. Croix's "The Class Struggle in the Ancient Greek World", which is superior to Parenti's book because it is not primarily a study of personalities and contains the rigorous detail necessary to make a high-level analysis of the ancient slave mode of production. And it's a useful point of comparison for non-Marxist works of economic history because he takes over a hundred pages to explain the Marxist theory of class, how it applies to the ancient world, how it compares to competing theories of class and non-class explanations of social hierarchy. In this way De Ste. Croix successfully defended historical materialism as the best historiographical framework for economic and social history.
>>15453
>He does a poor job of that too, Caesar didn't even work towards the propertyless citizenry like parenti claims
I think that one indication that Parenti's analysis deviates from historical materialism is in his championing of the populares like the Gracchi brothers & Caesar. This is in contrast to De Ste. Croix who is unconcerned with these men as personalities and rather sees them as agents of social forces which spring from class struggle (1). Attached are two excerpts that illustrate the difference between the two approaches. Parenti's book is not without nuance and it does not deserve to be interpreted as a wholesale defense of Caesar (2); the purpose of the book is to be a corrective against the works of bourgeois history that uncritically utilize ancient aristocratic sources. This isn't a novel contribution because Marxist historians and bourgeois historians themselves (!) have already done so in exhaustive detail. The problem with the book is that it is framed as a study on the person of Caesar while not really being one; the net effect is to confuse and distract from more fruitful analysis and this is made evident by the way in which the book has been received in this thread and elsewhere. The two conclusions that can be drawn from thePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>15432
Im reading Blackshirts and Reds and its a huge fucking dissapointment.



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