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File: 1611031695819.jpg (54.79 KB, 700x420, 3362.jpg)

 No.4863[Reply]

How can we reconcile these two seemingly contradictory passages of Marx's? Are they even contradictory?

From Critique of the Gotha Program:
>Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning.

From Capital Vol III:
>Secondly, after the abolition of the capitalist mode of production, but still retaining social production, the determination of value continues to prevail in the sense that the regulation of labour-time and the distribution of social labour among the various production groups, ultimately the book-keeping encompassing all this, become more essential than ever.

Similarly, does Engels contradict Marx's above passage in Capital in his letter to Karl Kautsky on the 20th of September, 1884?
>Present value is that of the production of commodities, but with the suppression of the production of commodities, value 'changes' or rather, value as such remains and merely changes its form. But in fact economic value is a category that appertains to the production of commodities, disappearing with it, just as it did not exist before it. The relation of labour to product prior to and after production of commodities no longer expresses itself in the form of value.

 No.4864

>>4863
>the determination of value continues to prevail in the sense that the regulation of labour-time and the distribution of social labour among the various production groups, ultimately the book-keeping encompassing all this, become more essential than ever.
this is not commodity exchange

>the producers do not exchange their products

he's referring to commodity exchange

>just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning.

he means labor prices don't appear as something inherent in products the way that value is inherent in commodities, but instead, as something transparently socially agreed upon and determined through somewhat arbitrary social accounting methods

 No.4865

>>4864
So were both Marx and Engels asserting that the law of value does not exist under the lower stage of communism, following the abolition of commodity production?



File: 1610677692813.jpg (518.06 KB, 822x584, d1U9ya5.jpg)

 No.4837[Reply]

Any parents here? Please recommend books for 7-14yo kids that aren't lib shit (i.e. most of the Amazon top and NYT bestsellers).

Not explicitly leftist, just some fiction and non-fiction that isn't based in liberal worldview like picrelated.
12 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.4906

>>4837
kids that age should be reading dystopian fiction and pulp fiction i.e. Huxley, Orwell, Sherlock Holmes, HP Lovecraft

 No.4907

>>4854
seconding Isaac Asimov

 No.4919

>>4859
You could watch the movie. It's dazzling trash.
I'll tl;dr:

First part of the story is Pi being all "omg, does god exist, does it not????" meeting with absolute retards to discuss this matter. A big revealing moment is when Pi goes to the zoo and sees "the worlds most dangerous animal", and it's a mirror, ie humans.

Second part of the book, Pi has a fantastic journey stranded in the Ocean with animals. There's a lion too. The lion is dangerous and eats animals Pi likes.

Third part of the book: Pi is rescued and it is revealed that the animals were actually humans, but Pi needed to COPE and made them animals. The description of what actually went down is extremely vulgar and disgusting.

The final kicker and "ah-ha!" insight moment is when the audience is asked if they prefer the better story (the one with animals and the lion in the middle of the ocean), or the real story (that the animals represented real humans, and the lion was a cook that was insane). The analogy is that "the better story" is pledging fealty to pedophiliac bloodthirsty reactionary religion while "the real story" is atheism, which we are supposed to think as viscerally disgusting (the worst animal is the human, and the insane cannibalistic cook's actions are basically atheism).

When I read it in highscool, there were a bunch of people who said they preferred "the better story". I was a staunch atheist back then. I saw that as an extremely grotesque acceptance that their belief in religion is literally COPE because they would rather not believe in "the real story". For a moment, I was considering the possibility that the book was written by an atheist to expose the religious as retards through 1D chess. But after a lot of classmates chose "the better story" and after analysis I realized it was filled with retarded arguments "supporting" atheism in the first part, I realized it was a retarded COPE of the highest caliber. I was an idiot back then, I can only imagine what other bullshit I'd find if I read it today.

 No.4969

>>4919
>First part of the story is Pi being all "omg, does god exist, does it not????"
His final conclusion about this was some nonsense about simultaneously following Hinduism Islam and Christianity.

 No.5047

For nonfiction there is Talking to My Daughter About the Economy by Yanis Varoufakis. Good read for teens about, well, the economy.



File: 1610473408882.jpg (308.21 KB, 720x699, 20210107_212520.jpg)

 No.4823[Reply]

I'm a history major and the bourgeois dominance of the field is just as prevalent here as anywhere else.

What books on Marxist conceptions of history, historiography, etc are there that can give me the tools to critique and fight back against bourgeois historians.

 No.4824


 No.4826

Also Anti-Duhring deals with marxist conception of science and world in general. The work is a critique of some guy, but also Engels in it explains historical materialist way of looking at things. The part that were of value on their own were later published in two separate works, Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, and Origins of the Family. I have not read the second one, but I heard that it is based on obsolete anthropology. Personally, I think Anti-Duhring itself is worth reading, but it is the longest.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhring/
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
And audiobooks of all 3 of them if you want https://listenleft.org/by-author/engels-frederick/

 No.4827

>>4823
Hobsbawm's 4 Ages books are always worth a read as well, imo. If you're a history major you might not really learn anything new as he's more geared toward a slightly-above-layman level of presumed knowledge, but his Marxist (although never really explicitly ML) perspective is prevalent, unapologetic and rigorously researched.

 No.4840

>>4823
Jairus Banaji's Theory as History



File: 1610407827052.jpg (107.96 KB, 600x800, IMG_20200930_195119.jpg)

 No.4818[Reply]

I'm starting to learn Portuguese, because I'm tired of being an undereducated burger who relies on English news sources for interaction with the rest of the hemisphere. I would like to eventually learn Spanish and French as well. What can I do to retain the language as best I can, while expanding my knowledge as quickly as I can? Pic
hopefully unrelatedd.read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book

 No.4819

>>4818
An anon explained a bit about second language acquisition at >>4300

 No.4820

>>4819
Nice. Thanks, anon.read_a_fucking_bookRead a Fucking Book



File: 1610405089089.png (45.66 KB, 500x389, Facebook-9df216.png)

 No.4817[Reply]

I need someone to give me a rundown of how does society develop from the end of tribal society up to birth of feudal one.What are the conditions that lead to creation of slave society and lead to its demise? What contradictions are at play here?

My understanding is that first large scale agriculture and with it city states are established. You get social stratification into commoners, nobility and priests. Why does this happen? Do priests and nobles start as mere bureaucrats, organizing production and distribution of food, and over the time solidify their position on top of society?

I am also not quite clear on the reasons why do these city states proceeds to enslave their neighbours. Is because work, particularly farming, sucks and nobody wants to do it, so the citizens of the city state get slaves for it, and thus the main antagonism is between free citizens and slaves? From what I remember from history, the most important class conflicts in Athens were between rising merchant class and nobility, and in Rome between nobility and plebeians.

Ancient city states were oligarchies, but when they expand and become empires, the power seems to concentrate in a hands of single ruler. Why? Also, why does the similar thing happen in feudal kingdoms? In early middle ages, nobility had substantial independence from king, yet during late middle ages came absolutism.

At the end, when Roman empire collapsed, why did the newly settled tribes establish feudal relations between nobility and peasantry, rather that slave society?


 No.4802[Reply]

Hello all. I just finished reading a report about the Israel/Lebanon war called "We Were Caught Unprepared" and I was interested in learning more about Effects-Based Operations and Systemic Operational Design which were used by Israel and written or spread by S. Naveh. It sounds like pomo warfare but I want to know if it's legit or not. I'm trying to find more info about it and the document mentioned here in the report:

>Of the 170 pages long doctrine document, many experienced officers didn’t understand more than half. Officers responsible for planning EBOs in the Air Force, could not understand the definition of EBO (more precisely in Hebrew Effect-Based Campaigns) or of the definition of the word “Campaign” in the document. The terminology used was too complicated, vain, and could not be understood by the thousands of officers that needed to carry it out. . . . The new terminology and methodology was supposed to be limited to the higher levels of command, and at the level of theater command and definitely at the division level, the old terminology and methodology should have been used.


I've found several papers on EBO but nothing penned by Naveh (I'm attaching them). ITT we can also academically discuss military doctrines. I'm more versed in philosophy than military doctrine but I'm open to learning about campaigns or strategies.


 No.4796[Reply]

The goal of LLCO is not to get rid of leadership, or simply to declare everyone a leader by fiat, but rather to make everyone capable of truly being a leader.

 No.4800

a cult with no followers

 No.4807


 No.4821


 No.4822




File: 1609025940402.jpg (162.49 KB, 1080x1410, orwell_consistency.jpg)

 No.4774[Reply]

I'm reading Orwell's Homage to Cataluña, and the explanation of the USSR influence goes like this:

There were two major marxist parties in cataluña:
POUM, that did not align with the USSR, and claimed that the civil war and the revolution were inseparable
PSUC, that aligned with the USSR, and claimed that only after the civil war was won, and bourgeois democracy was restored, that the revolution could go on

He was very skeptical of PSUC's position, and states that the USSR would not allow the revolution to go on because they needed stable allies, and revolutions bring about many things, but not stability.

Smart people of /edu/, can you comment on this position? Maybe provide some more info on this matter? Asking because Orwell is not the most reputable of sources.

 No.4831

Orwell is based, was based, and always will be based.

 No.4836

Soviet Union sent NKVD agents to kill anarchist leaders (which is part of the reason anarchists were defeated) and purge the republicans. Fucking Soviets always worried about their ideological purity and absolute loyalty.

 No.4862

>>4831
orwell was a disgusting pedo

 No.4867

OP, I was typing up a response but found a much more comprehensive answer on Reddit to your question. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8caypg/in_homage_to_catalonia_orwell_portrays_the_soviet/


tl;dr The USSR had no way to solely support a socialist revolution. Instead, the USSR's strategy was to defeat fascism via a Popular Front that included communists, socialists, and liberals. From the POV of the Communists, the POUM was undermining the war effort by pushing for revolution instead of political unity.

I'd also like to add that the militia system was retarded and the Communists were the only faction on the side of the Republic that resembled a real army.

 No.4868

>>4867
Absolutely based read, thank you anon



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 No.4756[Reply]

I have been never exposed to philosophy out of religion, but I beated the religion with thinking,
I want to learn from zero to all the way into marx, make a reading road for me
>pic unrelated
1 post and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.4758

>>4756
If you really want to start from zero, you have to start with the greeks. You can skip between the greeks and marx.

History of Philosophy from Copplestone is good. It has like 11 volumes lol, but the first one is the most important.

You can also listen to History Of Philosophy without any gaps. It's really good.

After that, IMO reading some secondary lit on hegel is key.

Then read Marx. If you're not too interested in the economic stuff, you can skip vol 2 and 3 of Capital. There's a lot to read.

At this point you should be radicalized. It is honestly hard not to see things as Marx and Hegel saw them.

 No.4761

Anti-Duhring was the main introduction for people in ML parties for a long time, so it's a good start imo. Lot of stuff about what dialectical materialism means that western marxists miss.

 No.5054

>>4757
fixed spelling

 No.5055

>>5054
Imagine reading Manufacturing Consent instead of Inventing Reality

 No.5056

>>5054
just noticed you have Erich Fromm on there fucking based



 No.4750[Reply]

Do you agree with her?
16 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.6623

>>6583
high school biology

 No.6625

>>6622
Mental disorders are real but only in relation to society. It only truly becomes a disorder once it negatively impacts your functioning in daily life. If big pharma and corpos didn't dominate medicine, you'd see more of a focus on treating the disorder as a symptom of coping with social life rather than a problem inherent to the patient. Most psychologists and psychiatrists otherwise accept a nuanced biopsychosocial model of mental behaviour.
There will still be mental disorders under socialism, but different kinds and frequencies. Hopefully they will be treated differently as well.

 No.6627

>>6622
Checked?allendeAllende

 No.6628

>>6622
Leftwing moment.
Tell us more how hearing voices telling you to murder someone isnt a real illness.

 No.6663

>TFW your massive effortpost got deleted by Melons autism on bunkerchan months ago



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