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File: 1608528010941.jpg (40.95 KB, 554x380, trotsky.jpg)

 No.733[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Alright so I've had a few interactions with people on /leftypol/ who seem to think that Dialectics means rejecting the Aristotelian law of non-contradiction. As far as I can tell this has no real basis in the work of Marx or Engels and is a good to not be taken seriously by anyone who understands logic or philosophy or mathematics. I was really confused about where this came from for a while. I have read Mao's "On Contradiction" many times and I suppose that text could be read that way, but I don't think that is what Mao meant by contradiction or "the unity of opposites". Last night though I read Leon Trotsky's "The ABC of Materialist Dialectics" and I think I've found my answer. In it, Trotsky straight up makes a case for why A=/=A, and does make a somewhat compelling argument until you examine it critically.

This piece is well written like most of Trotsky's work, but his argument is full of non-sequitors and general misreadings of Marx and Engels. I want to make this thread to do some comparing and contrasting between four texts in particular, but we can bring in other lit if people want. Those four texts are…

Anti-Duhring by Engels:

The ABC of Materialst Dialectics:

Dialectical and Historical Materialism:

On Contradiction by Mao Zedong:
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ITT we post links and pdfs to critical or constructive takes on Cockshott and cybersocialism, as well as works or authors who wrote in the fields of cybernetics, systems theory, or operational research in general.


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The theories of logic of Godel and Wittgenstein.


>muh science


CyberSoc thread rise up!


Could cybernetics be a useful way to convert techbros to communism? STEMlords tend to be pretty technocracy-minded. Rationally planning the economy with computers might be a good bridge for them similar to how nazbol could be a bridge for rightoids.


Definitely, Cybersyn'd probably get them hyped.

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This is not a debate thread. I encourage debate on this topic to happen in /leftypol/, as it would have anyway. This is an /edu/cational thread only.

Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, the third and highest stage of communist theory, was synthesized in 1982 by the Peruvian Communist Party (known in bourgeois sources by the epithet "Sendero Luminoso"). Here is the document they published concerning this: http://library.redspark.nu/1982_-_Maoism._On_Marxism-Leninism-Maoism
Parties and organizations that uphold MLM theory in the modern day include:
>Communist Party of Ecuador – Red Sun
>Peru People’s Movement (Reorganisation Committee)
>Communist Party of Brazil (Red Faction)
>Red Faction of the Communist Party of Chile
>Maoist Organization for the Reconstitution of the Communist Party of Columbia
>Revolutionary Nucleus for the Reconstitution of the Communist Party of Mexico
>Communist Party of Turkey/Marxist-Leninist
>Committee Red Flag, FRG
>Maoist Communist Party, French State
Red Flag Collective, Finland
>Committees for the Foundation of the (Maoist) Communist Party of Austria
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can contact me through [email protected] or just directly message via twitter twitter.com/newmultitude/



Since the old man is dead, and the thread on the other side will fade into obscurity, this is a good place to leave all this links.

Stuff (audiovisual material) that was produced by the SP in their heyday and some of the remnants antiGonzalo, most of them are dead of course


PCP congress 1989 (taken in a raid by the GEIN to the archive of the SP)


I believe this one is one of the Quispe Palomino brothers, who according to investigation (or was it a interview?) admitted being in the Lucanamarca massacre, he died in the VRAEM when a link of them in the area ambushed him with the police by blowing the house he was in. Action movie style.


Red flag, hip hop group. Chilean gonzaloites. The rescatable are some raps but primarily the cassete tapes in it. From what I've read they were common to mantain moral (mentioned in the book of the childsoldier turned soldier turn priest turned sociologist Gavilan, or was it another book but similar experience?)


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Looking back to the mirages of the past, and hearing voices and music of dead people, one can only wonder, sick joke, that this feels like the palace of some mummified ancient Sapa Inca.

September 19th 2021
>It is not easy to write an epitaph about Abimael Guzmán Reynoso (1934-2021). Because even though he capitulated and sold, for a plate of beans (or a cake), the revolutionary process that he himself initiated in 1980 in a very poor and forgotten village in the Peruvian highlands called Chuschi (where neither the State with its power groups, nor the pseudo-parliamentary left, ever reached nor will ever reach), one cannot deny his contribution to that unprecedented feat in Peru in the 80s and 90s. Nor can it be denied that he was a fundamental architect of the armed struggle carried out by the Communist Party of Peru (PCP): the most important project of radical transformation in the republican era of that country.

>Guzmán is owed three fundamental achievements in the revolutionary camp in Peru. The first is to have ostensibly influenced the party line, which applied Marxism-Leninism-Maoism to the specific analysis of Peruvian society. In the light of Marxist ideology (and braided to the path of Amauta, which he embodied in his masterpiece "7 Essays"), the PCP characterized Peruvian society as semi-feudal and semi-colonial, as well as tied to imperialism, mainly Yankee. The analyses of the PCP, as early as the 1970s, shed light on the social relations of production, power and property which were denied by the analyses of the right and the revisionist left.

>Guzmán's second achievement was to lead the reconstruction of a political-military organization; making it capable of leading an armed struggle from the countryside to the city, and following Lenin's principle of the party of cadres. The ideological formation, discipline and mystique of the cadres, militants and members of the Party, the Army and the Front, were central pillars of the advance of the PCP.

>His third achievement is to have led the PCP to initiate the armed struggle. The People's War led by this organization, until the end of the 1990s, was undoubtedly the greatest popular and revolutionary epic in the history of the republic. By the beginning of that decade, the armed struggle of the PCP had already spread ove
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>Those workers (proletarians) in the developed countries who benefit from the superprofits extracted from the impoverished workers of developing countries form an "aristocracy of labor". The phrase was popularized by Karl Kautsky in 1901
I'm noticing this really is a recurring theme with Lenin, but I'll leave this for another thread…
>and theorized by Vladimir Lenin in his treatise on Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. [b]According to Lenin, companies in the developed world exploit workers in the developing world where wages are much lower. The increased profits enable these companies to pay higher wages to their employees "at home" (that is, in the developed world), thus creating a working class satisfied with their standard of living and not inclined to proletarian revolution. It is a form of exporting poverty, creating an "exclave" of lower social class. Lenin contended that imperialism had prevented increasing class polarization in the developed world and argued that a workers' revolution could only begin in one of the developing countries, such as Imperial Russia.[/b]

By contrast, the definition within revolutionary syndicalism is that trade union bureaucracy, 'yellow unions', or social democratic unions were labelled 'labor aristocracy', (the IWW for example instead being a revolutionary industrial union, created within the orthodox Marxist theories of De Leonism).

This also implies that this imply that as places like China become more 'developed' and wages rise, wages will balance out between the developed/developing world and perhaps agitate the proletariat in developed countries to revolution?

>What is to be done as class-conscious proletarians of the developed countries if Revolution can only arise from developing nations, and those populations do not desire our adventurist migration there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neI-ol2AowM How to Think Like a Vietnamese Communist: An Intro to Dialectical Materialism!


This will be a thread for posting and sharing Documentaries about history as a whole.
I was sitting around watching Step back and I realized it has been a while since I have seen any of those old BBC like documentaries about historical figures.

Doesn't have to be older though. If you have any Youtube links or torrents to look up post them here. Thanks anons.
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I found this on youtube regarding the Internationale, short but really good.

The bit with the Communard in the USSR is amazing, never knew they lived that long but it makes sense, only 46 years.

Also love the bit with the different communist leaders in the 1930s.



A good overall documentary on the History of Neoliberalism



If anyone hasn't yet seen/recommended it yet.

Star Media's Second World War: Eastern Front is an excellent breakdown of the Soviet war effort.


Isn't CaspianReport some warhawk neolib? What makes him so right with this one?


The Discovery Timeline series is professionally narrated and formulated but quite biased and the sources are basic fucking US propaganda and shit especially in regards to the USSR (embed example)

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Inspired by my reading of the book, Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn
How do we know myths, stories, magic, etc. are not real? Assuming what we know scientifically is true, how does this negate myth, legend, etc? Why are dinosaurs not simultaneously animals and also monsters when they fit what we would have called monsters? Why are overriding social systems not tantamount to a spirit or God when they control our actions and shape our life histories even if they don't act consciously? Are they not what we'd call an egregor, i.e., a presence brought into existence by the actions and beliefs of a large number of people? Is our Sun not a God when it is responsible for all life on Earth? Is the biosphere not some sort of Earth spirit when it encompasses all living things yet influences each individually and can be destroyed through harming the Natural (non-human) World. Are spirits not the electrical currents moving through your brain? Do we not tell history as a story?

In the beginning there was nothing but the One, then the One expanded into the Everything, as the Everything continued to expand soon the beating hearts of the Everything, the Stars began to form from the energy of the Beginning, the stars coalesced into huge interstellar communities, galaxies; in the nuclear core of the stars more building elements were created, and from the stars came the planets; in the deep seas of one planet around one star life formed out of the energy of the planet's iron core, over the course of billions of years life arose in complexity in a way matching the Everything until finally from Life emerged the Someone, a complex arrangement of the Everything capable of consciously perceiving itself.

Why isn't our understanding of the Universe, even being scientifically true, a myth? Myths were once truths, after all.
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God fragmented itself into numerous pieces so it could be able to die. We are what's left in the process of this decaying God.


>this graph is totally right lol
ok igno


The magic was in us all along.


He's right



This article claims that Marx's "Poverty of Philosophy" is just a slanderous book that has nothing to do with Proudhon's real theories.

Marx doesn't properly quote Proudhon or openly strawmans him. His claims about Proudhon being bad economist in the begining of the book sound laughable since Proudhon was respected economist in his time.

>Comparing Marx’s “reply” to what Proudhon actually wrote, it is hard to take the former seriously. Once the various distortions and inventions are corrected, little remains. Proudhon was right to suggest Marx’s work was “a tissue of crudities, slanders, falsifications, and plagiarism.” (Correspondance [Paris: Lacroix, 1875] II: 267-8) Worse, Marx himself twenty years later embraces in Capital most of the positions he attacks Proudhon for holding in 1847.

>The dishonesty of The Poverty of Philosophy has distorted our view of Proudhon’s ideas and the time is long overdue for a revaluation of Proudhon and his contributions to anarchism and the wider socialist movement. This does not mean that Marx does not, occasionally, presents a valid point – most obviously, Proudhon’s opposition to strikes was wrong as subsequent anarchists recognised – it is just that these are frustratingly few in the midst of so much distortion. So, yes, Proudhon’s mutualism – a form of market socialism based on worker-run co-operatives – does need to be critiqued but Marx’s book is simply not that work.

are there any counter arguments to this?
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Don't bump a thread if you have nothing to contribute.


Soviets are direct democracy, idiot.


Critique of market socialism is important, but a lot of Marxists erroneously believe that because Proudhon thought markets could work that all anarchists also believe that.

Similar situation for the response of Marxists to other anarchists. There's rarely any actual engagement with the criticism. It seems Marxists are at times more interested in "winning the argument" in terms of public opinion rather than arriving at correct answers. Not to get too Great Man about this but it does seem to be a bit of a habit that was legitimized by Marx and picked up from him by his followers. He was malding pretty hard over people like Bakunin and Stirner in particular and was ultimately more influenced by his critics than he would ever dare admit. In the long run it's really just harmful to be this way and be unwilling to deal with theoretical criticism because it gets in the way of improving the movement in the future.


>He was malding pretty hard over people like Bakunin and Stirner
Probably true, though i personally i have not enough knowledge on Marx vs anarchist polemic to really talk about it.

However, i think it is worth pointing out that. despite what people like >>3577 say, Marx did in fact have an important influence on Bakunin and didn't just straw man him:
>As far as learning was concerned, Marx was, and still is, incomparably more advanced than I. I knew nothing at that time of political economy, I had not yet rid myself of my metaphysical observations… He called me a sentimental idealist and he was right; I called him a vain man, perfidious and crafty, and I also was right.

Also as sidenote, did Bakunin ever told Marx to literally go fuck himself? I remember seeing a quote like that some 4/5 years being attributed to him and thought it was pretty funny at the time.


Well yeah Bakunin and most anarchists today (who aren't just liberal larpers) do agree with Marx's critique of capitalism at least in a broad sense. Marx is essential. It's just that he would sometimes make poor criticisms (usually when the people he was criticizing made a good point against him). Most of his criticisms are extremely on point though, including some of anarchists.

IDK about that quote but that sounds funny.

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Please does anybody have a pdf file of 20 interviews by joshua citarella? or at least a link to one? I have tried looking for it everywhere but couldnt find it.thanx a lot

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Anyone know any good books for reading up on the history of the RSR/RPR? Pretty much every book I've been able to find have been Ceaușescu screeds written by devout anticommunists, which for the most part don't discuss the earlier history of PCR
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File: 1634246702752-0.pdf (30.33 MB, 193x300, bachman1989.pdf)

File: 1634246702752-1.pdf (11.72 MB, 213x300, crowther1988.pdf)


File: 1634247117494.pdf (20.72 MB, 425x300, Rumanian Summer.pdf)



>William Crowther is a professor of the Department of Political Science. He received his Ph.D. from The University of California at Los Angeles in 1986. He is the author of numerous publications on post-communist and communist politics, and ethnic conflict. His publications includeCommittees in the New Democratic Parliaments of Central Europe, with David Olson, (Columbus, Ohio: The Ohio State University Press, 2003), and The Political Economy of Romanian Socialism, (New York: Praeger, 1988). Much of his work focuses on Moldova and Romania. He has served as a consultant on democratization for governmental and non-governmental organizations, and for the past two years he authored the Freedom House Nation’s in Transit Reports on Moldova. Professor Crowther teaches in the areas of general comparative politics, Russian and Central European politics and ethnic conflict


Thank you anons, these help a lot.
Previously all I had been able to read had been Hoxha's short passage about visiting Romania and talking to Dej about the state of socialist transition in the first 5 or so years of RPR, for anyone interested it starts at page 260 of the pdf:http://www.bannedthought.net/Albania/Hoxha/TheTitoites-EnverHoxha-1982.pdf

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Hello /edu/.

I am trying to understand American political economy, the history of it, how that created the present structure, and what the present class structure and relations are.

Can anyone suggest some good Marxist books that will help? Pic related.
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It is the same for any empire. Rome had to constantly expand and when it stoppe, shit hit the fan. USA had to constantly expand, first through the North American continent and later by imperialist and neo-impearialist means through the world.



>Rome had to constantly expand and when it stoppe, shit hit the fan
Nope, quite the opposite. Roma met its doom because it overstretched the potential of its slave-based economy while american capitalism actually needs to open a new frontier to survive


>american capitalism actually needs to open a new frontier to survive
Is that why they're chomping at the bit to start WW3? watching the US destroy China while simultaneously pumping up the rate of profit would be too big of a blackpill for me


>The United States Innovation and Competition Act of 2021 (USICA), formerly known as the Endless Frontier Act, is United States legislation sponsored by Senators Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Todd Young (R-IN) authorizing $110 billion for basic and advanced technology research over a five year period. Investment in basic and advanced research, commercialization, and education and training programs in artificial intelligence, semiconductors, quantum computing, advanced communications, biotechnology and advanced energy, amounts to $100 billion. Over $10 billion was authorized for appropriation to designate ten regional technology hubs and create a supply chain crisis-response program.[1] The act is aimed at competing with China[2] and to respond to US fears of an AI Cold War.[3]
>*Endless Frontier Act*

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Hey leftypol! Would anyone be interested in joining a reading group for Capital Volume 2? Because us over at the /read/ group are gonna do that and we'd like to have it as open as possible, so we're inviting you to join.

For context, we've been running this collective of reading groups on >>/edu/5912 for around a year now, and we're finally ready to tackle the second volume of Capital, after successfully getting through the first one earlier this year.

Currently our system is to have weekly meetings over Matrix, on Sundays at 10 PM UTC. However we are willing to change that schedule depending on the availability of any new members.

Anyways, if you are interested, join our main Matrix chats:
Matrix Community (if you still use those): https://matrix.to/#/+leftyread:matrix.org
Matrix Space: https://matrix.to/#/#leftyreadmain:matrix.org
Join the Main chat for general discussion, and the /kritik/ chat for the Capital group.

Come /read/ with us!
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congrats you killed a thread



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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trying to read Capital in English

Aveling/Untermann strips away almost all of the original language, Fowkes does the same but only to a slightly lesser degree
why are anglo translators like this?


File: 1636922262618.jpg (127.35 KB, 882x1420, 618zDMh0i3L.jpg)

what's more, all of the underground translation efforts I've seen have just been for completely irrelevant schizo ML shit
it's maddening
i'm gonna do something about it one day

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