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Is mathematics invented, discovered or both?
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sry, or oranges are already fake as fuck, see this highly underrated comment (not mine, just based and noumenon pilled):


the question isn't very interesting. there isn't very much practical difference between invention and discovery in the first place. to invent and to discover are both to unveil something novel. it's why european settlers refer to things like "the discovery of america" which just as well be described as the invention of colonial states in the western hemisphere. was deep sea navigation discovered or invented? the astrolabe was invented, but doesn't work if you haven't discovered the relationship between sun declination and latitude.


Mathematics is an expression of truth. If you look at the various branches of pure mathematics, many don’t even remotely resemble what you probably had in mind (high school algebra or the basic college curriculum of calculus and linear algebra). Mathematics is similar to a programming language. You have some set of primitives, some set of operations you can perform, and from there you begin to derive the consequences of the operations you’ve defined. I guess you could say in that sense that mathematics is “invented” or “contrived”. Whether it is “real” or not depends entire on whether the system you have defined is useful for solving any real problems. Like if I define a logic about Barbie dolls, I define what properties Barbie has, what operations I can perform on her (brush her hair or undress her), etc… with a little effort we can make such a logic self consistent and valid. You obviously realize immediately that we probably can’t gain any useful or meaningful knowledge from that, so is it real math or not? I don’t see why not.


I just realized what point I was trying to make. Mathematics is obviously invented. It is just a framework within which you can systematize your reasoning about a given question or problem. However, the conclusions you derive from within that framework are discoveries. So a given branch of mathematics or logic is just a method for making discoveries.


math is invented. to say that math is "discovered" is idealism

File: 1640369773415.pdf (7.6 MB, 169x255, marxism ethics.pdf)


I finished reading Eugene Kamenka's Marxism and Ethics earlier this week and I found it so interesting.
There are two big thesis that stuck with me from the book:
Marxism can be seen as an ethical system that is not concern about good or evil, right and wrong but about alienation and liberation.
If moral system stem from material conditions that can be seen in soviet history, during the revolution soviet thinkers denounced many ethical ideas as bourgeois and celebrated revolutionary violence but after WWII when eastern socialist countries became prosperous and estable ideas that were denounced as bourgeois returned to ethical discourse.

Honestly the book doesn't answer the question of what marxist ethics are or what ethical system is more compatible with marxism but shows really well how ethics can be understood as how the conditions of a society understand the meaning of their actions.
Kamenka has another book on ethics and I wish to read it next.

This thread isn't just about Kamenka's book, I want us to talk about ethics in general and how they relate to marxism.
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Here is the book


>At the same time, the materialist interpretation of history, with its emphasis on historical change and class conflict, helped to lay the foundations for pluralist view of man and society - for the recognition of competing moralities and outlooks within society and within the individual man himself. It taught us that society was not a harmonious whole and that men were not harmonious wholes. Just as there was no total social interest, subsuming and reconciling all individual interests, so there was no total individual interest - a man could be part of many traditions, confront himself and others in many roles, be torn between allegiances to competing groups and ways of life. Marx himself and his disciples, it should be noted, were never thoroughgoing in this pluralism: they did tend to treat any individual man as belonging to a single class and to think of society as being made up of a finite number of classes. Marxian pluralism has to be, and has been, carried further than Marxists have been willing to carry it: we have to recognise the individual man, and the individual society, as infinitely complex, as the battlesite of an infinite number of traditions, outlooks and ways of life, as an economy of motives and interests which can never be exhaustively enumerated. None of the components of such an economy can be treated as atomic simples, confronting other components as monads without windows. Within each society there is an infinite number of sub-societies; component traditions and interests have points of affinity as well as points of conflict; they enter into alliances, change allegiance, split up into further components and so on. The complexity of individuals and 'their' interests has long been recognised in literature, especially in the novel; it is time that it was more clearly recognised in ethics.
Page 34, 35

Liberal hogwash. Of course the world is deeply complex and the motives of individuals can be fractured into numerous pieces, but the issue is that liberalism does not ultimately assign precedence or weight to factors. Everyone is given the freedom to decide for themselves to zero in on whatever factor they arbitrarily deem important and what weight they assign to each factor. Precedence and weight of all factors remain free to choose at any moment. This typically leads to the unverifiable, fantastical explanations of liberal political analysis, for which there can be countless of for the same eventPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


>Dr Israel Getzler, in his biographical study of the Men- shevik leader Martov (Martov, Melbourne U.P., 1967), shows us the moral disgust that Martov and other Menshevik leaders felt when faced, especially between 1903 and 1918, by Lenin's un- scrupulous tactics and lack of nicety in moral matters (the scandal of the Schmidt inheritance and Lenin's connection with counter- feiting and bank robberies to augment Party funds are the best known instances).
Page 54

Based Lenin.


The author in the OP‘s book shoehorns a lot of unsubstantiated claims in that he seemingly expects the reader to take as self-evident. He could have elaborated on each of those claims. Given there are only 67 pages the counter argument surely can‘t be that the book would have been too long otherwise. The perpetual snobbishness is also unnecessary.


Man, I am dying to participate, I'm too busy to do anything but shit post.
I have objections to these conclusions. Marx thought many things and one of the things is "man makes history, but not to their desire" or something like that. I think socialisms have been a very obvious result of trying to establish socialism by sheer will, rather than the thrust of political economic God thrusting us to it. And it has worked, and is working. So its not so much that the proletariat will win just because, but that in order to win it must win from wherever it is now, not from some desired state. Due to capitalism still existing 200 years later, it has changed and become different.

Idk, I haven't read the book, of course, but I disagree with the claims being made. It sounds like it wants to shoehorn ethics into Marx where there are none, and ignores the ethics that is arguably definitely in marx, namely the normativity of proletariat fighting for itself. Which is a historical truth but it is also a perspective claim Marx makes, I think.

 No.670[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

What is your favorite book?

What book influenced you the most?

What do you like about books?

what are you planning to read?

What are you reading now?

Saw this in /hobby/ but thought it fit more here
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I'm just finishing up Geek Love by Katherine Dunn and going to read verso's Oscar Wilde collection next.



get a desk


>favorite book
The Idiot
>book influenced you the most
Literature only? This sounds gay, but probably Macbeth.
>what do you like about books?
They're the purest interpersonal exploration of consciousness (though I would say this is true of 'stories' in general, and is therefore not exclusive to the written tradition, but such is our particular mediation)
>what are you planning to read?
A bunch of stuff idk too much procrastinating I need to read plenty of non-fiction boring theory still… endless mountains
>what are you reading now?
see above


Same here. Any remedies for that?

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Can you recommend me some books that exposes the pornography addiction in modern society? I want a book that explains this phenomena by a marxist perspective, without any conservative "but tha westarn moral is dyingg!!11".
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>>6760 fucking autocorrect
>and were free
and weren't free


>Inb4 "false analogy" the effects of pornography are comparable to heroin and other hard drugs, not some basic bitch shit like alcohol and weed.
This is very clearly just sexuality being a strong presence in the human experience. Your treating it as if its an opiate that should be rejected at every turn.
>>show that people get aroused easily
>Except that's a oversimplified and intentionally misleading claim
>Actually it is, faggot. Pornography wasn't as graphic, easily-accessible and wide-spread even back in the 90s, people jacked to Hustler and Play Boy, which was just nude girls, not sex scenes and were free and couldn't be sold to minors legally. Anyone can open Pornhub and find tens of thousands of videos, pictures and more today.
>In the past, before the 1960s porn was limited to very esoteric circles of photographs which were neither widespread, nor widely sought. Erotic imagery from actual art is not the same as pornography either, so don't bring up some ancient depiction of a sex scene as some evidence of porn being old.
Deliberate misinterpretation of what I said but I'll bite. Your acting as if before pornhub people had more "tame" sexuality. Go out and look through the ancient drawings of sex and you will see its just as raunchy as it is today.
>Again, PORN IS FREE, only in a trap will you find free cheese - YOU are the product, retard.
No shit.
This is simply rebranded evangelical talking points of the 80s moral panics, but we're stuck in a time loop between the 80s and now. Clearly your under 25 and a virgin who is afraid of they're own dick. Go outside, have sex and pay attention in school.


I don't know why people go out their way to defend such garbage. Modern p*rn is distinct from what we've seen in the past in terms of accessibility and the ability to escalate. There's probably not much from a leftist perspective unless you want to dip into radfem stuff.directxDirect X


>very clearly just sexuality being a strong presence
So basically you're just repeating yourself without actually arguing, concession accepted
>eating it as if its an opiate that should be rejected
If you can't see the difference between literal brainwashing of dopamine receptors and normal libido, you need help.
The fuck is there to elaborate, yes humans are horny beings but porn is an unnatural product, that doesn't fulfill basic needs and actively affects our minds in similar ways to narcotics; that being addictive and damaging to the brain. Porn is not a part of normal sexuality and people shouldn't be aroused this easily because that's called hypersexuality, which is a disorder.
>our acting as if before pornhub people had more "tame" sexuality
Yes, yes they did. Outside of the upper class and other lazy bastards with money, most people had sex to have children and did not diverge too far from just that sex. Moreover even casual sex is still less shitty than pornography because its actually real.
>see its just as raunchy as it is today
Come back to me when you find the dozens of futa furry porn and shemale domination and all sorts of fucked shit. Come back to me when you show me that murals, paintings, drawings, wood-cuttings, frescos, carvings, sculptures and more depicted sex constantly, graphically and in public. And no showing genitals or having a mildly erotic scene is not porn.
>This is simply rebranded evangelical talking points
1) Wrong
2) I think I'll side with the Evangelicals on this one given that porn and pro-porn liberals have tended to be the worst kind of glowfaggot scum anyhow
>Clearly your under 25 and a virgin who is afraid of they're own dick
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Is there a website where I can learn philosophy? A website that leads your through and explains to you all larger categories and questions in philosophy? I know there is plato.stanford.edu, but it's an encyclopedia and doesn't lead you through the topics in a didactic manner. I didn't want to learn philosophy by reading a bunch of books, because I have several dozens of books I'm already intending to read.
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Once my sociology teacher told me (if I recall correctly, I may add) that Kant's criticism was responsible for ending the empiricism/rationalism schism, by stating that they can both very much work together in the search for knowledge. But, since then, I haven't seen this idea being brought up at all when talking about him, and even being challenged by some (though these are usually randian tards).

So, what do I make of it? Have I been duped? Is this correct?


just search "open courseware philosophy" stuff like that


If anyone wants to get into political philosophy, I found two charts that cover the progression of the discipline and the more modern issues plaguing our beloved academics


Write essays and post discussion topics here


File: 1649134592885.jpeg (213.12 KB, 762x1049, hindu art 2.jpeg)

Thought id offer aome stuff on south asian philosophy
^Offers a great overview into indian philosophy and has other stuff available as well like Chinese/islamic.


-A book by the professor (Peter S.Adamson) who creates the podcast entirely dedicated to south asian philosophy.

A good comprehensive starter video on hinduism.

-Jiddu Krishnamurti is a really well known thinker, if you're a fan of work of Aldous Huxley (brave new world-author) then you'll like his writing (they were good friends). Alan Watts was very fond of him as well.


Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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I have the impression that psychology is a field that is heavily influenced by the societal structure we live in and what culture we have, to deduce that some behavior is inappropriate, an illness, a deficit, or on the other side of the spectrum healthy, a sign of maturity, desirable.
Do you guys have any literature on that?
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Socialism as an idea is derived precisely from the arisen contradictions beholden & intrinsic to capitalism; if there are psychological findings which contradict the ideological propositions of capitalism, such findings are technically still *derived from* a capitalist context and will thusly still be partially tainted in their formative structuration by capitalist ideology. There is no wholly neutral or detoxed finding which could otherwise emerge from psychology under the particular societal mode which contextualizes its epistemological basis.


Honestly, Kaczynski touches on this a little bit in Industrial Society and It's Future. If you're open to reading a wild schizo's thoughts on psychology and sociology, it may match your perspective on the field.


Mental illness is real. It's what society considers normal. Aspergers havers are the only mentally healthy ones, but since they're the minority, they're ironically labeled as mentally ill.


gtfo varg


Post video recordings of lectures and announcements for online lectures.

>inb4 schitzos like peterson or other rightwingers

this is /leftypol/ faggot
>inb4 Richard D. Wolff
all his lectures i have seen so far are just very basic stuff if you find some more advanced stuff post it

I want to focus this thread on philosophy, history and political economy on an academic level.
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Don't necro. Post actual content if you're bumping. Embed as an example.



Imperialism, Orientalism and Social Emancipation by Professor Vivek Chibber


Toward a Counter-History of French Theory: Understanding the Global Political Economy of Ideas by Professor Gabriel Rockhill

 No.2085[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

If you know French or German, please contribute a chapter to /leftypol/'s first crowdsourced translation project! This project started on >>691.

The book is Karl Kautsky's history of the French Revolution, originally published as Die Klassengegensätze im Zeitalter der Französischen Revolution in 1889. Coming from the "Pope of Marxism", as Kautsky was then known, this text likely had an immense influence on Lenin and other revolutionaries of his day. It was approved by Engels himself, and may have been foundational in establishing the Marxist theory of bourgeois revolution, yet it has never been translated into English. The original German is available here: https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/kautsky/1908/frev/index.html and an old French translation is available here: https://www.marxists.org/francais/kautsky/works/1889/00/antagonismes-table.htm

What makes this work especially good for us to translate is that it's relatively short - just around 60 pages in total, divided into 10 chapters. With each chapter being 5-7 pages each, it is conceivable to translate a chapter in one day's volunteer work. Comrade Akko has already translated the preface, and is working on chapter 1. That leaves 9 chapters to complete:

Preface: Complete!
Chapter 1: Second draft complete (French)
Chapter 2: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading complete (English)
Chapter 3: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading in progress (English) - Proofreader needed
Chapter 4: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading complete (English)
Chapter 5: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading complete (English)
Chapter 6: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading in progress (English) - Proofreader needed
Chapter 7: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading in progress (English) - Proofreader needed
Chapter 8: Complete! (Copyrighted work, permission secured)
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Sauce? I mean it's pretty blatant propaganda so I get the reason.


Went ahead and subbed it myself


no, the book Kobzar


Oh. I didn't hear anything about that.


This children's cartoon is literally how grown ass adults in Yurop and Murica actually see this crisis.

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Is there any Marxist historians you recommend?

>inb4 Grover Furr
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File: 1641915534008.png (631.72 KB, 680x666, ClipboardImage.png)

>Basically you start reading and if he's just doing cocaine word salad with no logical negations discard the book
Probably a good idea.


the early Annales school


Why do even communists sometimes shit on Furr? What is the criticism? So far I have only read Bloood Lies and it is quite an indepth, meticulous deconstruction of Snyder's book. Why is Furr disliked among comrades as well?


Oops with the sage whatever


He's often accused of misquoting the historians he criticizes. Whether that's true or not is something I am too ignorant to tell you.

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Obscure gruella political literature
I'm sure everyone here has Che and Mao's guerilla warfare books downloaded at this point, but I'm curious about similar literature written by people in conflicts that were less famous
The Nepalese civil war, Western Sahara conflict, The Baloch conflict, Sri-Lankan communist insurgency


Marighella fought in Brazil and Cabral fought in Guinea. Fourth book is a nice selection of different texts.


Anyone have Revolution in the Revolution by Regis Debray ?


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