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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Previous thread: >>2189753

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Previous Thread Archives
Thread 1 https://archive.ph/ROnpO
Thread 2 https://archive.ph/f29Po

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB1uqxcCESK6B1juh_wnKoxftZCcqA1go
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz4k72ocf2TZMxrEVCgpp1b5K3hzFWuZh
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>>2529745
such as?

>>2530974
monetarists

>>2533350
monetarism isnt a marginalist economic theory?

>>2506575
>machines do not produce values in exchange (prices) above their own cost, but only transfer what they already possess

This is an empirical claim, what's the evidence? As far as I know it's wrong. Businesses can buy a machine that dramatically increases profits over its cost. Capital goods are mass produced like anything else. A right-libertarian could say ah yes you see the capital good produced all that extra profit, but that would be wrong too because both labor and machines are required for production, just like any other input.

As for Kliman's incoherent answer about how under Marxism machines and beasts of burden don't produce value, is it correct to say that it's because value is a social relation? If cows or robots went on strike, demanded higher wages, or bought commodities, they would produce value too.

>>2542616
im less concerned with kliman's view than marx's, which i deal with here: >>2507508
the difference between an animal, machine, slave and a free man is that a free man is socially recognised as a subject rather than an object; thus he becomes possessive rather than possessed. as marx says:
<Labour is the substance, and the immanent measure of value, but has itself no value. 
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch19.htm
value is not a natural relation, but is a social relation.



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I know you American folks like to freak out whenever someone calls you treatlers and insinuate that you are collaborators in your government's imperialism and world raping. But let's be honest, between us, it is true right? I know the Theory of Treatlerism is not glamorous… but it is correct, right?
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>>2507882
>>2507878
What the bourgeoisie calls "services" produce no value. Read proletarian political economic textbook. Everything you said is wrong.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/pe-ch15.htm
https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/pe/pe-ch20.htm

>>2507883
I never brought up services. Baristas aren't service workers, they're produce vendible commodities. Customer service workers are service workers because they don't produde suplus value. Even a porn star who produces a DVD film or porn movie is more proletarian than an Indian customer service worker because they produce a vendible commodity (Adam Smith).

>>2507883
>stars are the only proletarians because anything other than creating atoms is just moving shit around

>>2507809
theres a wide gap between read settlers third worldists and principled analysis of labor aristocracy.

>large group but not everyone in the 401k group is automatically precariat

yeah i was saying theres two groups the 401k group who are a new type of petty bourgeois and the precariat who are lumpen. the first being a part of the FDR new deal which was ultimately a compromise to stop communist revolution after ww2 while industry was booming and the big bourgeoisie could afford concessions. the actual proletariat is small but growing, the problem is that lumpen arent moving up, its petty bourgeois getting pushed down and becoming reactionary because there is no organized movement to educate them.

>>2506690
Is that what imperialism means?



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I dont like tankies but i hate nazis so i guess that puts me on the left.
Created this epic maymay after the DHS made post of gigachad being anti communist, which like everything else these fascist post has no base in reality and is telling about their media literacy.
please be kind like i know giga chad is.
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>>2507742
>>2507743
Shame about your infantile disorder

>>2507749
>>2507742
Otherwise great minds think alike

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>>2506935
He doesn't look like his pics though ;_;

>>2506935
he also hates when people make memes of him



 

🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

<Letter from Lenin Edition


Thread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich: Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid.

🏈 💵 🌭 🍔

🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/

🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md

📺 Glowie News 📺
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>>2507377
>No one denied the holocaust
mods removed the "facts don't care about your feelings" reply that was given to someone pointing out that Jiang is a holocaust denier. so there was at least 1 holocaust denier ITT. Then you made it about "well it wasn't 6 gorillion" then I said "there are non jewish holocaust victims too you know" and then you tried to pretend that was your point all along, then you retreated to "it's ancient history, why do you guys bring it up" even though you came to the thread to deny the holocaust, now you are retreating to "please I just care so much about the people that the nazi west is helping genocide."

you are a zionist, you are a nazi, you are a western supremacist, you are a racist, you are a genocide denialist, you are a NATO-fellater. you will be destroyed. nobody likes you. i am not jewish. i despise the abrahamic religions and the way they hypnotize people away from militant materialism and marxism leninism. kill yourself NOW

>>2507403
at every single step of this conversation you have lied. you began the conversation by posting a holocaust denier. when someone pointed out they were a holocaust denier you said "facts don't care about your feeligns" then you retreated all the way from holocaust denial through several other goalposts, "it wasn't 6 million, what about the non jewish holocaust victims, hitler was jewish, actually i just really really care about palestinians and don't think the thing I brought up in the first place is relevant"

you are a liar. i hope china destroys the USA and israel but it probably won't. i hate you. you are a liar, a zionist, and a nazi. you are a western supremacist. die die die.

>>2505801
What if archive.is goes down for good? How do you guys trust in it so much?

>>2507309
they're already doing it, they raided an entire apartment complex in Chicago last night. 100s of pigs with stun and smoke grenades and probably "less lethals."

>>2507403
the retreat:
>guys i dont think the holocaust was real
>ok actually i take that back i just dont think its possible to kill 6 million jews
>ok actually i just think it's unfair that it still gets talked about so much even though I was the one who brought it up
>ok actually the holocaust was real but only the non-jewish victims who I was previously denying exist at all
>actually why aren't we talking about palestinians more even though I interrupted the thread to deny the holocaust
>ummmm would you deny the holocaust to save palestine in my retarded hypothetical where that somehow saves palestine?
>you're jewish for arguing with me even though I support settler ethnostates
>umm you're like sinophobic or something
KYS



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Anon Why is most of the western communist movement just libertarians larping as communists ? Has neoliberalism destroyed the left that bad that now everyone has the individualist petit boo conscience
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Everyone who calls themselves a communist in 2025 is a larping liberal. Communism no longer meaningfully exists in any sense.

>>2506789
Outside of China that is

The term "libertarian" has been so thoroughly trodden into the mud by American political discourse that it has no real meaning anymore. Originally it was synonymous with "leftist" or "liberal" and was all about egalitarianism and socioeconomic equality, but then in 19th century America the term started being appropriated by laissez-faire anarchocapitalists who started calling themselves "libertarians", they divorced the term of its connection to social justice and equality and instead made it completely about economics and no taxes for the rich and let society be ruled by unaccountable private tyranny.

My serious honest to Marx opinion: There are no such thing as a "Libertarian." they simply do not exist. (No, being excessively sappy doesn't constitute being a libertarian.)

>>2506789
Liberalism doesn't exist either. We're serfs. Pay the tax to your LORD bitch.



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I think there are 2 opposing points on non id-pol when discussing the current problems in the relationships between men and women and the dating crisis

>1) this is not important or caused by alienation and capitalism, end capitalism and these problems end with it


>2) this is as important as economics and we need a cultural revolution to then fix the economic issues


which is right? maybe the 2 of them? or is it just men/women that need to step up?
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>>2493936
Not het just aware that you're a tool

>>2496449
I think most incels are just sad boys who stay away from most people. Only a small amount of them will ever go on a shooting spree or whatever.


>>2493907
They hated Nona because she told them the truth

SAGE
MOVE TO >>>/siberia/



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Comrades, can someone explain the historical origin of the blood libel without hysterics? I feel like it must be really false in regards to Jews if only because Torah directly prohibits the consumption of any kind of blood (even the one of an animal), but… it feels a bit too specific to be competely made up. What is happening there?
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>>2507036
But witches did exist! …Of course, in reality they couldn't "cast fireballs" or even hex the village's crops to fail. But they could create medicines from herbs and stuff, and it could even work!

Speaking seriously, the myth of the witch has its roots in material reality.
Most myths are rooted in material reality
in at least some way.

The scapegoat comes first, the mythmaking comes afterwards.

Christian peasants needed an explanation for why their lives were still so horrible even though they were ruled by Christian lords

They're all true

Vampires, scapegoats, idk

As an aside, the jews of europe have historically been the victims of ignorance, rather than malice. Like you bring up the Torah, the average euro peasant would never have heard of such a thing. When the black plague happened, jewish communities were spared the worst outbreaks, mostly because they were already isolated due to discrimination and had practiced "better" hygiene for cultural reasons. Because of this some peasants just assumed they must be behind the plague and killed them for it.



 

One can be sexist against men. Patriarchal society is institutionally sexist against men despite the benefits it provides. Gender liberationists acknowledge this and understand how feminist movements have also broadly benefited men.

One can be racist against 'white' people. 'White' supremacist society is institutionally harmful to 'whites' despite the benefits it provides. Anti-racists acknowledge this and understand how anti-racist movements have also broadly benefited 'whites'.

One can be classist against the bourgeoisie. Capitalist society is institutionally harmful to the bourgeoisie despite the benefits it provides. Socialists acknowledge this and understand how socialist movements have also broadly benefited the owning class.

Whether these prejudices are necessary or justified is a personal opinion. However, it is absurd and hilarious to pretend, for a common example, "you can't be racists against white people". This slogan signals denial, a post-liberalist rationalization, based on the idealist assumption that "racism is bad because uuhh it just is", and that they don't see themselves as bad, that their racism is therefore not racism. Instead, we must understand why racism is harmful to society, both institutional racism and other forms.

For another example, classism may be rationalized by oversimplifying the class tendency for the bourgeoisie to preserve their superiority. Perhaps a proletarian revolution, under the pressures of counterrevolution, may unfortunately resort to some form of classicide when circumstances don't give us the opportunity for nuance. This is not ideal, we know many heroic traitors of the bourgeois class who have sided with the proletarian movement. But it may be justified or rationalized when circumstances force it. For example, the regicide of the Romanovs was a tactically beneficial action. We've seen historical cases where royalty have rejected their title and privilege, but due to circumstances, the Bolsheviks would have been irresponsible to let the Romanovs live simply for this possibility, while on the other hand, the CPC were responsible to let Puyi live. Perhaps, if there were not an ongoing royalist civil war, the Romanovs could have been given a similar fate…
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>>2506293
How does it compare to Indian oppression in South Africa and its complications?
Men are oppressed by the patriarchy, and generally their class position, but still have some benefits over women – just like how Indians were oppressed in South America but not as much as Blacks – is it justifies to go "Kill the Boer" on men because they have it slightly better?

That's the actual type of question.



>>2505690
There's clearly different types of reactionarism.

Your sexism against men point for instance, if you dont wanna call it sexism, then do you just call discrimination?
And since it's NOT sexism and instead a discrimination, would you call it justified?

Like discrimination against men since of trauma?
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>>2506314
Other than the emptiness of the money and being unable to be friends with anyone other than psychopathic rich people, sure they're happier since they're the only ones to have their needs really met.

Besides, that guys point doesnt really matter, bigger point made by Hegel was that it's a dialect where they both rely on each other and cant just be separated, it's not like a online video game where you can leave mid match.
Marx highlights this in explaining that capital exploits are human nature and pushes us to hoard for that reason, hence why billionaires hoard, they just become sociopaths over time to justify their unfair unfair advantage (like in the monopoly study).

Bourgeois feminism bad. Good feminism indistinguishable from communism. End of story.

unironic misandry should just not be taken seriously at all besides 95% of cis "misandrists" are TERFs that throw shitfits because they saw a woman with broad shoulders use the woman's bathroom




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I read almost everything Marx wrote it changed me deeply bur now I’m alone and lonely because I made one fatal mistake . Other communists don’t read . Why? Because deep down I find most communists hate communism
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>>2506465
Okay? And? So? Join a party or something.

>>2506493
You mean the one plebbit where there they are angry at people making fun of Israel and the other place where they worship the guy critically supporting the Axis?

>>2506623
Actually both worship based Bordiga, get your facts right

>>2506636
Best part of ᴉuᴉlossnW getting executed by ancoms was ancom gigachads shooting leftcom wreckers who were crying about it afterwards

>>2507136
Do you think Fortnite is overrated?



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NEW THREAD:: >>2506950

NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
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NEW THREAD >>2506950

>>2506933
>if you go to right wing places you won't see communist positions like opposition to bourgeois war
wow, what a shocker! thanks champagne for such an amazing revelation!

NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
NEW THREAD >>2506950
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>>2506943
maybe they can turn the imperialist war into a class war



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