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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.1650087[Reply]

Reading about this event, I am honestly baffled on how a truly socialist government wasn't established and the ability for the reactionaries and liberals reassert power over leftism. How did this even happen when a popular socialist revolution occurred?
10 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1650205

>>1650204 (me)

(with my seed)

 No.1650252

>>1650168
>but wasnt the revolution mostly from the military
Yes it mostly carried out by young junior officers pissed off at the wasteful colonial wars and the planned cuts to the military/restructing of the officer corps. Some of the officers were leftists and the others were more moderate/liberals. It was mostly the incompetence of the old regime and the colonial wars that triggered the revolution.

 No.1650274

File: 1698078999012.jpeg (18.24 KB, 340x349, Carvalho.jpeg)

The leading officers were a communist, conservative and liberal. I think the liberal was the only guy not to attempt to overthrow the government later kek.
This guy is honestly the most interesting part of the whole thing, Colonel Carvalho was the communist officer.

 No.1650277

File: 1698079169578.jpg (96.17 KB, 1280x720, COPEenhauer.jpg)

>>1650199
>>1650204
>>1650205
>>1650243

>I guess Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and every other communist who actually led a state were just idealists

<existence of state is same as my nationalist retardation
ah ha u mad asl nationalists try not be smoothbrained loser challenge[FAILED]

 No.1652857

>>1650087
Alright, bitches, I am finally here to satisfy your curiosity!
The reason why there was a pretty quick counter-revolution of sorts (at least as much as was necessary to tame the left wing of the revolution) is pretty standard imperial core forces opposing more radical change. There was simply too much to be lost by being a pariah-state on a small ass country on the corner of Europe surrounded by enemies (may I remind you at the time Spain was still a Francoist fascist lite state) and also too much to be gained by benefiting from a cut of imperial spoils that we would get (and did get) from becoming a boogie democracy. The average person could see this clearly, including the working classes and left-wing people.
The only real possibility for establishing the radical left wing of the revolution as the hegemonic political force long-term was if we were to benefit from very significant support and protection from the USSR, which in 1974 they were deep into the Brezhnev Era and they weren't about to take risks like that, and also however heroic and genuinely left-wing the military officers that led the revolution were, there was a visible anti-soviet bent to their worldview, at least in as much as they feared that entering the Warsaw Pact would essentially makes us subservient to the Soviets and they really didn't want that.
Just to give you an idea, just 1,2,3 days after the revolution itself (i.e. the toppling of the government part) you had Solschenizyn scaring the US State Dept with stories of us already having secretly joined the Warsaw Pact (roflmao), you had the West German Chancellor scheming intensely to make sure the revolution was betrayed, and you had bougie socdems like Mário Soares with their dicks rock hard actively volunteering to fuck over the left.
>>1650274
Otelo was a chad and a half. But he also had intense misguided views that were radical just for the sake of being radical, a product of significant lack of political education. After the revolutin was one of his major obsessions that he pushed for insistently was direct democracy lel



File: 1697294890905.png (1.29 MB, 2000x1019, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.1633727[Reply]

People seem very very confused about imperialism. A great many people seem to think imperialism should be challenged not only or, in some cases, not at all, because of its inextricable link to capitalism, colonialism, unequal development, and superprofits that leach off of the periphery, but rather, instead, because it "forces the decadent, atheistic, materialist perversions" onto the imperial periphery. On the contrary, Atheism and materialism are foundational to anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism, and anti-imperialism, and anti-colonialism, and always have been, despite various strains of revisionism that allow idealism to flourish unchallenged in the labor movement. Usually this revisionism takes the form of allowing allies to remain ignorant for fear of scaring them away if their particular delusions are corrected, but sometimes it can also take the form of labor movements based entirely in idealist and religious philosophy, with materialism firmly rejected from the outset, while adopting the surface aesthetics of Communism (usually symbols, portraits, colors, the occasional quote drop here and there but not much beyond that).

But let me get to my key point. The real reason I made this post:

In addition to the aforementioned inextricable link to capitalism, colonialism, unequal development, and superprofits, Imperialism should also be challenged because it forces the conclusions of development onto the periphery without the accompanying journey that led to the conclusion. Why do people like Dugin, with his fourth political theory, get so much clout? Why are people cheering on Hamas despite them once upon a time being supported by Israel against the more secular PLO? Why are forms of idealist and reactionary "anti-imperialism" flourishing 30 years after the collapse of the USSR? Because the west has indeed tried to force bourgeois materialism on the periphery: That is, the incomplete materialism, i.e. the pre-Marxist materialism of Hobbes, Locke, and Diderot.

The imperial core got to go through its own bourgeois materialist phase on its own without having it forced upon them by an alien power. And so they never felt compelled to reject materialism out of a sense of self preservation, patriotic duty, and so on. These ideas got to develop locally. The journeyPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
55 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1650001

>>1649960
Ah yeah you're right I'm crowding Leftypoo with my opinions whilst this big brained take is most recent comment on site
https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/1623527.html#q1649995
I'll try up my game to this instead of commenting on the phenomena of how Western women increasingly look like men)

 No.1650173

>Why are people cheering on Hamas despite them once upon a time being supported by Israel against the more secular PLO?
Because past backroom funding is a lot less relevant in the present context, where Hamas is very clearly biting that same hand that once fed it, and the Arafat/Abbas leadership of the Palestinian Authority/PLO has liquidated its revolutionary potential. The genuine revolutionary forces which once backed the PLO, like the PFLP and DFLP, are now actively engaged in the present revolution alongside Hamas as part of the Joint Operations Rooms. Hell, Fatah's own paramilitary wing rebelled against them and is part of the JOR against the orders of Fatah's leadership. The present struggle isn't Hamas vs. Israel, it's Palestine vs. Israel. I will cheer for Palestine every time, and I expect so-called Marxists like you to do proper research before getting exasperated over communists supporting a national liberation struggle.

 No.1650292

>>1649945
>thirdworldist christkek russian from a failed country deciding the west is dead because we don't believe enough in the christkek universalism that is causing it's decline in the first place
Mentally retarded
>>1649948
>Walk South Amerian cities
I see enough fat brown people when i take the bus.

 No.1652574

>>1649960
Why are modern leftists obsessed with demoralization? Is this a result of Marxist hegemony? I think its a result of Marxist hegemony.

 No.1652752




File: 1698125059210-0.jpg (91.6 KB, 1080x595, F9J2u30asAAvbtB.jpg)

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 No.1651363[Reply]

General dedicated to the creation and dissemination of Pro Palestine and Anti-Zionist material. Let it be clear that this is not a place to share day to day updates. Its a place to share infographics, videos and discuss strategies and find key points of interest. Let us be fair, there is only so much we can do as individuals and as a website that can be done. But the situation has changed for Israel. Before, they could do whatever they wanted, and the world wouldn't be the wiser. Now, the world can see for what it is. Thousands of videos, up close and personal. The horrors, tragedy and death that occurs. And we should do what we can to show everyone what they don't want to be shown

 No.1652085

bump

 No.1652112

File: 1698176273742.jpg (72.65 KB, 767x433, yair.jpg)

Two for Bibi's son staying in Miami

 No.1652124


 No.1652149

we already have a thread like this >>>/leftypol/1632823



File: 1698113589492.jpeg (723.36 KB, 828x1278, IMG_0431.jpeg)

 No.1651093[Reply]

I’ve been thinking about this aspect of humanity considering we’ve been through multiple periods of population decline internationally but I’m questioning if there’s a change now than before that may see a very different kind of decline, one whose rate can be described by a Fourier function than as a simple one and done moment of global population decline towards a sustainable level.

My idea is this, after a country urbanized to a level that people no longer have as many kids as they normally would age demographics shift in a way that not only drastically reduces the number of births but also leads to sterility among remaining populations, because they’re old. This basically means that after a generation or two dies out, the already smaller and struggling generation that isn’t having enough kids becomes that new declining generation which leads to increased stress on newborns and you get the idea. This ultimately results in a rate of population decline that’s periodic between generations where populations stabilize and then fall again since people aren’t in a position to keep up with their own economy.

I’m likely completely wrong on this and there maybe some kind of massive change in the coming decade(s) that leads to mass expenditures on daycares and birth subsidation to curb out excess population loss(loss that reduces a countries population below sustainable levels for it to function normally) but for now we only have current data and projections for what’s to come.
6 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1651347

>>1651093
the reason birth rate is declining is because HOUSING ends up costing too much in developed capitalist nations. nothing to do with urbanization the average woman still wants 2-3 kids they just cant afford it plus marriage is less stable which is itself a consequence of de industrialization in previous eras people would just get married and jobs that paid enough for a house straight out of highschool

 No.1651354

>>1651347
Nope, sorry mate this still occurs even in cheaper places. People need to be able to feed themselves consistently and not have to constantly be in a state of uncertainty over their own future to be able to even find comfort in parenting. Blaming an issue like that on a single thing is irresponsible and puts attention away from things like bad working hours, poor pay, costs of living, job security, financial opportunities for the parent and for their kid, or even safety that all work against births just as much or more than home prices alone.

 No.1651355

>>1651354
cheaper places also have lower wages so its price relative to wage

 No.1651359

>>1651354
I didn’t mention one thing in the OP, people don’t have kids because it’s “natural”, humans generally aren’t inclined to any behaviours outside of socializing, eating and sex. Child rearing, especially providing for many kids wasn’t even that common prior to mass vaccinations for the same reasons it was today, most people back then only had so many kids either due to non existent access to contraceptives or because they needed those kids for low skill labour on farms and in workshops to aid their parents, hell even in the first Industrial Revolution it was documented that families in much of Britain would regularly kick out kids if they couldn’t afford to feed them which fed into a lot of orphanages and child labour. You get the idea, it’s not just that there’s less incentives to have kids now than ever, it’s also just the fact that people won’t if there isn’t a specific reason too since it does require a lot to raise kids.

 No.1651362

>>1651355
Anon what you said goes back to what I just said on the realities of dealing with living costs and a whole lot of other junk when having to move away from reliance off subsistence farming, fishing and foraging to survive. You made it clear, this is influenced by prices relative to wages.



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 No.1649112[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

🇵🇸 PREVIOUSLY IN PALESTINE 🇵🇸
>>>/leftypol_archive/584202
>>>/leftypol/1618943
>>>/leftypol/1619735
>>>/leftypol/1620456
>>>/leftypol/1621324
>>>/leftypol/1622089
>>>/leftypol/1622853
>>>/leftypol/1623683
>>>/leftypol/1624456
>>>/leftypol/1625580
>>>/leftypol/1626363
>>>/leftypol/1627331
>>>/leftypol/1628215
>>>/leftypol/1629334
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
597 posts and 118 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1650499

new bread

>>>/leftypol/1650493

 No.1650502

>>1650032
Isnt McGregor the one that said the RF was gonna steamroll the Ukraine any day now?

 No.1650503

>>1650502
Yes but I find his voice relaxing

 No.1650512

>>1650102

>US ready for escalation on three fronts, says Blinken


Ukraine, the Levant, and Taiwan?

 No.1651196

>>1650129
>Who the fuck in Biden's cabinet is influencing him in this direction?
All of them. His entire cabinet is warmongering neocons that have the same worldview and spout the same shit like robots. This is reinforced by the neocon alliance with "never trump repbulicans" that democrats made so they could throw the left under the bus and still defeat trump and get biden elected. Now the entire party and administration is basically Bush/Cheney 2.0 on steroids.



 No.1650817[Reply]

Hamas releases two women held hostage after Egyptian-Qatari diplomacy
In a statement on Monday, spokesperson Abu Obeida said on the group’s Telegram channel that the captives had been released for “humanitarian reasons and poor health grounds.” The release of the two hostages, 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz and 79-year-old Nurit Cooper, was confirmed by the ICRC.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/23/hamas-releases-two-women-held-hostage-after-egyptian-qatari-diplomacy
https://archive.ph/KXwOR

Thousands march in Tunis for Palestine
When addressing the thousands of protesters, Hamma Hammami, Secretary General of the Workers Party of Tunisia, expressed that people must unite their efforts across many countries to support the Palestinian people and expel the ambassadors of France and America from their countries, citing how the countries of sub-Saharan Africa did this recently. He expressed that people taking to the streets is tantamount to supporting the Palestinian people in their resistance to Israeli aggression, which they consider to be an enemy of humanity and must be resisted by all means.
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/10/21/thousands-march-in-tunis-for-palestine/

EU foreign ministers back humanitarian pause in Israel-Hamas war to let in aid
EU leaders are set to discuss the issue at a summit on Thursday after rifts emerged within the bloc over how to respond. Borrell admitted the EU could not “decree” a temporary cessation in hostilities but said it would help send a message to Israel in the same way Joe Biden’s message about the importance of restraint appears to have helped delay a ground invasion of Gaza.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/23/eu-foreign-ministers-back-humanitarian-pause-in-israel-hamas-war-to-let-in-aid

Home Secretary plots to crush Gaza protestsPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1650836

Autoworkers strike at Stellantis plant shutting down big profit center, 41,000 workers now picketing
The United Auto Workers union has once again escalated its strikes against big Detroit automakers, this time adding a factory that makes Ram pickup trucks for Stellantis. The union says that 6,800 members walked out Monday morning and shut down the Sterling Heights, Michigan, Assembly Plant, a huge profit center for the company. The newest strike action comes just three days after union President Shawn Fain reported progress in talks with General Motors and Stellantis but said the companies will have to make better offers. No progress was reported with Ford, which last week said it had the best offer of the three.
https://apnews.com/article/auto-workers-union-strikes-stellantis-pickup-truck-factory-bb03283120bfbe0c22773dfc258b890c

Starbucks Is Exploiting the Violence in Gaza and Israel to Attack Its Union
The president of Workers United writes that Starbucks is endangering its own employees and appears to even endorse a boycott of its own stores. “I am afraid,” said one worker. “My mom doesn’t want me to go to work.”
https://inthesetimes.com/article/starbucks-israel-gaza-lynne-fox-palestine

L.A. hotels hire migrants from Skid Row homeless shelter to replace striking workers
“I thought, it’s good they are fighting for their rights,” Vargas said. But she said she felt uncomfortable. “The people outside, it was their job, and I was the one replacing them.” Since more than 15,000 workers began intermittent strikes at about 60 Southern California hotels in early July, employers have been replacing those union members with managers and temporary workers recruited through apps, such as Instawork, staffing agencies and by other means. Vargas is among those from Skid Row’s migrant population who have been recruited in recent weeks to work at unionized hotels in Santa Monica and near Los Angeles International Airport where workers have gone on strike.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1650885

Israeli Settlers and Soldiers Are Brutalizing Palestinians and Activists in the West Bank
While the whole world is watching the massacre Israel is carrying out in the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army and groups of settlers are killing and brutalizing Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. In just two weeks, Israelis have killed more than 70 Palestinians in different cities and refugee camps. In just one day, October 19, Israeli soldiers killed at least seven Palestinians in the Nur Shams refugee camp near the town of Tulkarem, although some sources put the number at 11. The organization Defense for Children International – Palestine (DCIP) reports that Israeli forces shot dead four Palestinian teenagers in the West Bank in a 24-hour period. “Israeli forces are increasingly and brazenly killing Palestinian children throughout the West Bank,” Ayed Abu Eqtaish, director of DCIP’s accountability program, said in a statement. Last week, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz published an investigation even more chilling. Israeli soldiers and settlers kidnapped, tortured, and sexually humiliated a group of Palestinians and leftist Israeli activists in the West Bank village of Wadi al-Siq. Three Palestinians and three left-wing Israeli activists spoke to Haaretz about their arrest on October 12 by the Israeli army’s Desert Frontier unit, which recruited members of the far-right settler group Hilltop Youth.
https://www.leftvoice.org/israeli-settlers-and-soldiers-are-brutalizing-palestinians-and-activists-in-the-west-bank/

In Ecuador, Disaffected Voters Have Elected the Son of a Banana Magnate
For the second time in a row, a businessman and heir to a banana fortune has defeated the presidential candidate forged under the leadership of former president Rafael Correa. In the October 15 vote, overshadowed by Ecuador’s recent security crisis, center-right candidate Daniel Noboa won 51.8 percent of the vote to Luisa González’s 48.2 percent. The surprising territorial distribution of the vote between 2021 and 2023 reveals many paradoxes. Noboa was a semi-unknown candidate, a green and young parliamentarian representing a discredited legislative branch. The reputation that preceded him was that of his father, the banana magnate Álvaro Noboa PontónPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1651054

File: 1698112322749.png (929.52 KB, 1024x1086, 2749107482.png)

Thanks News Anon



File: 1698079378326.jpeg (770.16 KB, 828x1591, IMG_0426.jpeg)

 No.1650284[Reply]

People are forgetting that there hasn’t actually been a single year since the 2020s started without any traditional wars occurring. Worse the deadliest was the first one with Ukraine in second and hamas at third. Here’s a discussion thread for the tigrayan war and do feel free to discuss usage of chemical weapons.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1650305

File: 1698079996038.jpeg (Spoiler Image, 415.96 KB, 828x509, IMG_0428.jpeg)

>>1650298
I’ve seen exactly two images of potential evidence that the Ethiopian government was using chemical weapons. The first one is the spoilered one of someone that was burnt unusually during this conflict while I lost the second, that image was one containing a grey smoke cloud near an shelled out village

 No.1650374

>>1650284
from what I recall, TPLF were the genocidal imperialist puppets funded by the US to wreck ethiopia, and were doing lot of heinous shit
dunno anything about chemical weapons, but although they're ugly weapons, the obsession with it by the west propaganda makes it suspect

 No.1650444

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File: 1698085566800-1.png (774.39 KB, 720x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1650284
There were no chemical weapons used. That was complete bullshit.

I'll give you the QRD up til now.

Ok I'll go back pre 91.
>Eritrean and TPLF and other assorted rebel groups fighting Derg
>Mengistu is a retarded no-theory dictator propped up by the USSR
>USSR falls
>He decides out of the blue to sneak out of the country by surprise. Literally boarded a plane that was supposed to be flying domestically then said: change of plans we're going to Kenya. He was just that week telling the country how they're going to fight til the end and then the next thing anyone hears about him he's in Zimbabwe where he remains to this day.
>TPLF coalition and Eritrean fighters take Addis
>Eritrea becomes independant and the TPLF set up an ethnically federated country where they hold the top position despite being only 6% of the population
>This goes on for 27 years
>In this time they become real American lap dogs.
>In 98 war breaks out between Eritrea and Ethiopia
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1650450

>>1650444
Long story short about the current situation. Abiy turned around and allied with the TPLF and is now going against the Amharas and has soured the relationship with Eritrea.

 No.1650473

File: 1698087003099-0.png (697.49 KB, 958x1197, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1698087003099-1.png (614.5 KB, 918x1147, ClipboardImage.png)

Eritrea's take on the conflict.



 No.1649335[Reply]

Been doing some independent research lately for the lefty wiki. It's left me wondering something.

Is there a name for the following established relationship between social murder and the reserve army of labor? I've been thinking about this a lot lately:

>Capitalism leads to a large number of workers who can't afford necessities of life, or pay their rent, or get adequate health care (especially preventative care).

>They die younger than they would otherwise
>or become incapacitated/dependent on others for care (which has a ripple effect since the people taking care of them are now less able to adequately take care of themselves)
<or become deproletarianized entirely and become criminalized/homeless/incarcertated/etc.
<this decreases the number of proletarians (either through death or deproletarianization)
>This causes a shortage of labor-power (well, at least death does, not prison labor, but on average it will cause a decrease in labor power available since at least some people will die)
>this causes the market price (not the value) of labor power to rise, since demand is higher, and supply is lower
>Porky doesn't like this, not because of the misery. He's fine with that. He doesn't like it because of the lower supply of labor.

<Capitalism needs cheap sources of labor power so they create a reserve army of unemployed, also called a reserve army of labor, or industrial reserve army

<The industrial reserve army gluts the number of available workers, which lowers the market price (not value) of labor power.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1649374

>>1649335
No clue what the answer to your question is, but it seems interesting so I'm gonna bump.

 No.1650346

So I figured this one out. The relationship between reserve army of labour and social murder is elaborated upon by Marx when he he calls reserve army of labour by another name. relative surplus population. Marx says the bourgeoisie allow overpopulation precisely to the degree that reserve army of labour is practical for capital's needs (relative surplus population). But overpopulation above and beyond this amount (absolute surplus population) is simply neglected, i.e. socially murdered. He specifically uses the Irish potato famine as an example of this. The bourgeoisie were able to maintain a relative surplus population even after the absolute surplus population all died of the famine or emigrated.



File: 1678207743025.jpg (521.38 KB, 576x776, cybercom.jpg)

 No.1390377[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators
Sorted by last name
>Paul Cockshott
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
596 posts and 127 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1648702

>>1648688
There are always issues with supply shocks (bad weather, storage facilities burning down, etc.) even if there's a heavy shift towards preordering. So we need a way to deal with shortages. Using price changes to deal with that is what TANS advocated for. Other methods are described in this thread (including the post you reply to) and the point is made ITT that changing the price is the most straightforward of them.

If you have an alternative proposal, spell it out. (People will just magically know everything beforehand does not count as an alternative.)

 No.1649700

>>1621276
elaborate

 No.1649704

>>1649700
I'm not that poster, but anyway: The meme pic is about under-consumption as cause of falling profits. But empirically the profit rate falls before wages and employment go down, that stuff comes after.

 No.1650342

>>1649700
>>1649704
not a theorychad but yeah iirc rate of profit fall is due to an increasingly larger part of invested capital being in machines, and machine only gives you an advantage over other capitalists (aka an increase in profit) until everyone get them, afterward you just need to invest more capital buying machine for the same return, meaning an increasingly larger part of your investment doesnt create profit, and so "lowering the rate of profit".
Human labor is what create profit, as it is the only part that can give an higher return that what you pay for apart from short term competitive advantages (like being the only one with the new more productive machines)

 No.1650432

new thread: >>1650427



 No.1649436[Reply]

Adopting Anti-historical arguments that SPIT on the teachings of Marx, Williams and his modern devotees as well as those duped by his deceptions such as Losurdo adopt LIBERAL ARGUMENTS, which BASED COCKSHOTT demolishes and throws into the garbage.
THROW OUT those copies of Liberalism a Counter-History and Capitalism and Slavery and learn that you've been duped by ANTI-MARXIST, ANTI-MATERIALIST NONSENSE!!!
2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1649441

based dickblast, who can stop him?

 No.1649448

File: 1698014253352.png (574.17 KB, 768x768, 1650563140558.png)

Based schizo thread.

 No.1649464

Jannies pls filter cockshot to cum

 No.1649754

Good and short. I'm somewhat puzzled about how people even come to believe in the position Cockshott criticizes here. I suppose it got something to do with a need to see an automatic tendency towards justice in the workings of the universe or at least a potential, as a way of coping. Slavery and colonialism caused great suffering (Belgians hacking off hands…). And how to make up for it, possibly, even in part? So a comforting thought is that this massive "pile" of suffering somehow brought with it a "properly proportionate pile" of wealth… and in durable form too, so we (WE???) could just give a big chunk of that back. But you try to make that story concrete (sugar…), and it feels absurd.

>>1649439
Nothing to do with cybernetics.

 No.1649796

>>1649754
>Good and short. I'm somewhat puzzled about how people even come to believe in the position Cockshott criticizes here. I suppose it got something to do with a need to see an automatic tendency towards justice in the workings of the universe or at least a potential, as a way of coping. Slavery and colonialism caused great suffering (Belgians hacking off hands…). And how to make up for it, possibly, even in part? So a comforting thought is that this massive "pile" of suffering somehow brought with it a "properly proportionate pile" of wealth… and in durable form too, so we (WE???) could just give a big chunk of that back. But you try to make that story concrete (sugar…), and it feels absurd.
maybe the thought that all that suffering wasnt even for (that much) economic gain but rather based on europeans being psychopaths is even more depressing? thats a position which is weirdly close to afropessimism



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