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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1627255946908.jpg (14.06 KB, 326x326, flushed.jpg)

 No.401984[Reply]

I'm a commie becasue I'm not getting my surplus value. If a liberal could explain: 1. that surplus value extraction is real and 2. explain why porkies NEED to take my surplus value, I wouldn't be a commie.

So that begs the question, has any liberal ever answered my second question? Do liberals even know what surplus value is? At some level they have to know that wages =/= my labor power.
27 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403007

>>401986
What if your employee risks workplace injuries? Does it balance out?
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 No.403014

>>403007
Also remember that the worst case scenario if Porky's "risk" doesn't pan out is that he no longer owns any capital and now has to work for a living like the rest of us.
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 No.403122

>>401986
This meme needs to die, capitalists don't absorb any risks, they socialize the risks with austerity. >>403007
You don't have to grant him that premise.
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 No.403124

>>402374
Risk does not create value. If it did, the best way to get rich would be to play Russian roulette. Also, the risks capitalists take are overstated as usually they're playing with loaned money and the worst thing that can happen to them is they become a prole. That they think being an ordinary person is a punishment is telling.
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 No.403416

>>402374
This isn't even a good argument if you're comparing who takes more risks. Workers definitely take MORE risks than porkies, in every case.
Working class ppl have little to no job security. Working class ppl can be fired at any time. If working class ppl get in a car accident, get sick for a long ass time, or any number of reasons to not work, they better have sick days or they're screwed. Workers are constantly getting their jobs automated.


File: 1627273529543.jpg (54.28 KB, 600x600, ur,jigsaw_puzzle_252_piece….jpg)

 No.402612[Reply]

I'm seriously (not joking) a newbie leftist. I was once an independent, but skewed left and finally could able to call this place home.

What books, pdfs, and links should I read?

No harrasment allowed. Respect newcomers, for you're one too back in the day. Respect victims also!
41 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403182

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 No.403227

>>403171
That's fucking crazy
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 No.403263

File: 1627312995661.pdf (45.92 MB, 198x300, marx_for_beginners.pdf)

>>402952
Yeah that is a good beginning list. I would add something like Rius, he was too good for this world
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 No.403273

>>403263
Thanks again! You guys really helped me rn. Unlike last morning when some folks harassed me, called me pol, unti I showed you the proof that 4chan is blocked in Based Republic of Indonesia
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 No.403274

>>403157
Had they existed before I wouldn't have a problem assimilating with your culture.


File: 1627302561880.jpg (535.03 KB, 739x739, 278c87bf4c6cab6b1a61f11770….jpg)

 No.403125[Reply]

I am currently reading Capitalist Realism and the part I'm at is discussing the capitalist system's efficacy in shaping perception to render the new generations impotent and misguided. That's at least how I understood it. It got me wondering, all the research on social engineering that has been done in the mid 20th century by intelligence agencies like the CIA and private organizations like the Rockefeller foundation, is there any evidence that it is being used today? I'm not doubting that it has been used, but do we have explicit evidence?
2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403131

>>403130
>Actually Existing Socialism?
Yeah
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 No.403136

>>403125
Fisher is good for normies to see the Dystopia we live under in the capitalist west, but that's it. If you dive to deep into that post-left shithole he was in you just end up becoming a misanthropic doomer, overmedicating and dying on the toilet, where your parents will find your corps in the mid of a shit, drooling out of your mouth
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 No.403187

>>403128
>What does Fisher actually think about AES?
Probably didn't support china if that's what you are asking
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 No.403228

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 No.403230

>>403130
It's how you spot embarrassing LARPers and weak thinkers.


File: 1627258362827.jpeg (194.41 KB, 2000x2000, 63a5139d-e581-4d7b-a2c2-8….jpeg)

 No.402040[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

>Planned economies could wor- oh…

What are your thoughts? Can Walmart's model be expanded to the economy of an entire nation? And further as the global economy?
134 posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.402532

>>402523
Can you prove it?
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 No.402543

File: 1627271549398.jpg (56.8 KB, 590x587, a2c57f2538c1f1b5e2342f92c7….jpg)

>>402514
I learned about him through this meme I found on the booru. He doesn't seem that bad actually
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 No.402685

>>402287
>>402294
>>402312
The USSR up until the Kosgyin reform easily passed the Anti-duhring test definition of a socialist economy as proposed by engels.

The USSR's economy on account of being 99.9% composed of state owned enterprises and workers cooperatives that were taxed at 100% (soviet turnover tax) with material excess from the enterprises being reinvested into the economy and nil capital accumulation.
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 No.403114

>>402166
sauce for graph?
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 No.403217

File: 1627310344074.gif (129.39 KB, 680x315, 070.gif)

>>402098
>tankieism
>texture pack


File: 1627222631765-0.jpg (499.56 KB, 2000x1333, 10.jpg)

File: 1627222631765-1.pdf (4.28 MB, 194x300, Trotsky as Alternative.pdf)

 No.400655[Reply]

What it says in the title, mates. I've been reading Mandel and holy fuck is he based, especially in contrast to Mattick's idealism in "Anti-Bolshevik Communism". People say there is no difference between trots and tanks in their approach to revolution and building of socialism, but if Mandel is an example, then there is a theoretical chasm. One recognizes bureaucracy as a separate social strata with its separate interests - the other is not. One champions spontaneity and self-agency of the masses - the other is not. One recognized that without proletarian democracy, direct democracy of the soviets, there cannot be socialism - the other is not. One recognized that economic revolution requires a political revolution - the other is not. One wrote a book about the marxist theory of bureaucracy - the other is not.

Honestly, if followers of a man say something about this man, then I gained much respect for Trotsky. Mandel was a great popularizer of marxism, made actual advancements in marxist theory, worked with shaikh, made contributions to transformation debate, wrote a book about marxist interpretation of long cycles etc.

Here what Mandel has to say about Trotsky in his "Trotsky as alternative", tankies be seething.
61 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403174

>>403165
>what part of trotsky's analysis isn't rooted in a materialist analysis?
What part is? His position on bureaucracy as separate force with it's own interests, basically a class but he was careful not to call it such, is nothing but a repeat of turd positionism. Even his stance on unions is similar to that of Mussolini or Hitler. Nothing about it stems from marxism and anyone who actually bothered to read Marx, Engels or Lenin, instead of cherry picking them, would know that.

He was nothing but a wrecker and a tool of porkies from the start. Should've been killed way earlier.

>But it's collapse was inevitable as soon as it allowed a state bureaucracy to take over.


What is material basis for bureaucracy that allows it to "take over"? They don't own MoP, decisions are collective and so on. You have a lib view of a state.

>Are you retarded?

No, trots are. You don't know history, you don't know marxism, you don't even read your own cult leader as was proved times and again in this thread and other ones like this.
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 No.403175

>>403165
>Different socialists have different conceptions of socialist states. Shocker.
Trots are just libs doing ideology window shoping. What a surprise.
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 No.403190

>>403175
What? So any adaptation of any socialist theory is window shopping. Mao, Lenin, even Stalin fall under your analysis of trotsky.

>>403174
>What is material basis for bureaucracy that allows it to "take over"? They don't own MoP, decisions are collective and so on. You have a lib view of a state.

But that's the issue, they weren't collective decisions towards the end of the soviet union. Something Mao noticed as well, and ironically something that has ended up happening in China as well. A bureaucracy removed from collective decision making. We can argue on pragmatism in the fight against American imperialism, but simping for stalin just because he flew a red banner without critique is an awful position to take.

>you don't even read your own cult leader as was proved times and again in this thread and other ones like this

Yeah Trotsky is the one with the cult, not the hundred weird Stalinist larpers pretending the material conditions of industrialized US is the same as 20s Russia.
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 No.403194

>>403190
Trotsky tried to push his cult. Stalin was just popular.
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 No.403214

>>403190
>But that's the issue, they weren't collective decisions towards the end of the soviet union.
And why they weren't? You didn't answer the question actually. What material basis allowed bureacracy to take over? You deflected the question and gone on tirade about "simping for Stalin". I guess that is what your "theory" amounts to in the end.

>What? So any adaptation of any socialist theory is window shopping. Mao, Lenin, even Stalin fall under your analysis of trotsky.

Nothing but a pathetic 'no you' without even understanding the argument.

>Yeah Trotsky is the one with the cult, not the hundred weird Stalinist larpers pretending the material conditions of industrialized US is the same as 20s Russia.

Are those stalinists in this room with us right now?


File: 1627303002864.png (2.56 KB, 275x183, download (1).png)

 No.403132[Reply]

Anglos literally saw the horrendous state the united states was in during the colonial era(believe it or not crime, ethnic infighting, corruption and the inefficiencies of capitalism were actually alot fucking worse back then compared to today) and instead of having the sense to at least look at that country and go "holy fuck let's not do that again" they went into south africa went to war with the people already living there and repeated all the same mistakes, 95 years of an apartheid state yet not a single year under it did homicide rates or wealth inequality fell, worries over civil war and genocide of white south africans was a prevalent worry throughout apartheid. That's not normal you shouldn't create a system so abhorrently awful that you have to be worried about getting yourself killed under it, and what's worse are the asian migrants that immigrated their with even less self awareness than the Anglo population and not only showed open support for apartheid but also free markets that resulted in situations of mass unemployment, constant civil unrest, extreme amount of ethnic infighting and more. 1 could say it's the best african country but I'm not sure if that's true when it has a shitstorm of other problems, especially when one realizes rohedsia needed to be annexed and have the white population deported simply to not turn out the same way as south africa
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 No.403141

>>403132
South Africa wasn't colonized by Anglos you tard
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 No.403142

>>403141
Sorry I meant the dutch
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 No.403147

the future of Africa doesn't lie with colonial shitholes like SA, it's up to Africans to develop on their own terms without interference from the West. South Africa was doomed from the start by decolonization without decoupling the economic sector from Western leeches. even as a leftist i prefer people like Paul Kagame and his Rwandan Patriotic Front to whatever dumb shit is cooking in South Africa.
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 No.403168

Hahaha anglooooooooos
I JUST GENUINELY DONT CARE MAN
fuck of pol!!!!
COPE SEETHE DILATE HAVE SEX HAHA
We need a zoomer containment board.
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 No.403201

File: 1627309484909.jpg (104.53 KB, 860x778, tuxedo pepe gun.jpg)

>>403147
>even as a leftist i prefer [CIA-backed governments] to [a potential socialist revolution].


File: 1627287277131.webm (902.18 KB, 634x360, 145a1238c689c4294f3caa4db….webm)

 No.402975[Reply]

Liberals and Socdems swear on it so much, that I really start wondering if it actually is capable of replacing coal as the main source of energy. I am scepitcal ofcourse. Imo we fucked it up a long time ago when we ruled out nuclear fission as a temporary alternative, but those "progressives" always screech at me for suporting a "terrible" alternative such as nuclear and they have science and facts on their side to demonstrate how renewables are the future.
Well, what says the opposition? Are there studies that show us renewables are nowhere near replacing coal in its capacity?
7 posts omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403135

>>403123
>There is no alternative to the concentrated potential energy of fossil fuels that can maintain the current civilization at scale. There's a reason fossil fuels are used. There is no other source of energy on earth as readily available and as concentrated.
Nuclear power is more concentrated, and thorium isotopes are available literally everywhere, if you take any cubic meter of dirt your will get more energy return on energy investment than from the best oil and gas deposits.
>but the fact is there is no current technological replacement for fossil fuels that would allow industrial society to continue to operate at the present scale
nuclear power could generate much more energy than fossil fuel.
>>403127
>Besides nuclear, let me add. But it seems off the table for various political and emotional reasons.
oh you just added that correction, well fuck it i already typed out the comment so i'll post it anyway

>>403134
You should always improve efficiency by reducing waste, but that should not be an excuse to not increase energy production.
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 No.403139

>>403135
I'm very interested in the viability of nuclear fusion. It seems that there have been many breakthroughs recently. It has many of the advantages of fission but is safer. Realistically it should be the number 1 priority for sustainable energy investment. Wind turbines and solar panels are supplemental at best.
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 No.403169

>>403139
>I'm very interested in the viability of nuclear fusion.
The technology is already viable now if you are willing to build reactors the size of a city-block. Put them into shallow places in the ocean, and use the unfathomably vast heat energy output for thermal-splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen can be pumped to gas-turbines or reverse electrolysis stacks to make electricity. You could even use the hydrogen as feed stock for synthetic chemical fuel.

It would be extremely expensive, but still cheaper than fighting wars for control over oil. Half the worlds military budget would do it.
Best case scenario for building this is 10 years worst case 30 years.

Smaller fusion reactors are more technically complicated than the mega-sized one, and developing that would probably take longer than a few ultra large construction projects. There are a few private companies that claim to be on the cusp of commercializing small economical reactors, but so far nothing concrete has materialized. Like with all these ultra high-tech ventures you have to assume it's vaporware until proven otherwise.
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 No.403173

>>403169
>It would be extremely expensive, but still cheaper than fighting wars for control over oil.
For now. It's still an experimental technology. Look how much cheaper chips got over time.

>Smaller fusion reactors are more technically complicated than the mega-sized one, and developing that would probably take longer than a few ultra large construction projects.


Prototypes of a new technology are always big and clunky. The first computers filled warehouses. Eventually as more is learned and fine tuned, the components are miniaturized. We need a proof of concept that fusion can generate more energy than it takes to make it happen before it gets taken seriously as a power source.
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 No.403185

>>403173
No, you missunderstand the big reactor is a fundamentally different type of fusion reactor, that has to be huge because of the physics that are involved. The big one will certainly work and produce so much energy that normal heat-engines like turbines can't handle it, and it needs an intermediate step of thermalizing water.

The small reactors aren't better, from a technical perspective, it's a trade off: wait longer for technical development, to make upfront initial capital cost lower. It will not be like computers where miniaturization increases performance.

>We need a proof of concept that fusion can generate more energy than it takes to make it happen

that is already proven.


File: 1627275676665.jpg (331.11 KB, 1440x1121, 121067137_4558824860825251….jpg)

 No.402708[Reply]

How do I phrase this
<in simple terms it's not great
>in long terms
It feels rushed and unplanned(which makes sense since they had a population boom and hence needed to grow their economy at the same rate as their population), like the leading designers carelessly placed a bunch of farmland all over the fucking country and place cities wherever it was convenient with 0 regard as to the long term side effects of such reckless decision making skills in the process of building the country, somewhat similar to how orks in warhammer 40k have a tendency to develop their Mahinery without much thinking but with Hope's that it simply works. What's worse about chinese infrastructure is you'll know in hindsight that citizens of the chinese government will be using these poorly thought out cities will be living in them for decades where the idea of major infrastructure collapsing and factories randomly fucking exploding and leaving dozens if not 100s dead is seen as an everyday occurrence. All I can say about chinese infrastructure is that it needs major and I mean MAJOR renovations because their are currently cities in fucking subsaharan africa that have gone through wars riots and all kinds of mayhem that are still standing tall and are still functional, I hope the chinese labour force doesnt age itself into extinction to make renovating the country to improve the future of the next generation of chinese citizens
23 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.403048

It feels 'rushed' because you in all likelihood live in a country where it takes 15 years to build a single highway or a railroad line.
This is what a government of movement and action geared towards helping working people looks like
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 No.403051

Gib me sources.
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 No.403054

>>403048
Recently they dropped a 600km/h (373m/h) maglev train that btfo'd Japan's JR
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 No.403067

The Great Canal and Yu laugh at this *ngloid. Also while burgers argue over whether green energy is problematic, their government has made deserts green again. Sage.
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 No.403099

File: 1627298870864.jpg (867.79 KB, 1080x1973, Screenshot_20210726-061912….jpg)

>>403009
I openly actively root for China now. The U.S doesn't give a fuck about its citizens. It's infustructure is collapsing right now. It's our dams and bridges that are falling apart. The government is a far right gentocracy police state, health care is non-existen, there's mass shootings daily and half the country is on fire. That's just the obvious surface level problems, even our "great" military is so bloated with corruption they waste over a trillion to develop a plane that can't fly. If China is the orks what the fuck are Americans? I guess the imperium of man makes sense. We're a reactionary dead empire run by the daily sacrifice to a literal corpse and living off ancient infustructure.


File: 1627220053819.jpeg (15.36 KB, 220x311, 220px-Dorothy_Day,_1916_(….jpeg)

 No.400583[Reply]

>Dorothy Day (November 8, 1897 – November 29, 1980) was an American journalist, social activist and anarchist who, after a bohemian youth, became a Catholic without abandoning her social and anarchist activism. She was perhaps the best-known political radical among American Catholics.

>began as an anarchist/socialist

>read Marx and Kropotkin
>""ex"" communist
>part of the Catholic Worker Movement
>distributist
>sided with republicans in spanish civil war despite church being on francos side
>ww2 pacifist
>later associated with the new left
>praised castro and ho chi minh
>dunked on the new left and disliked free love, premarital sex & pot
>defended Solzhenitsyn
>visited the Kremlin
>Jailed while protesting with Cesar Chavez
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
59 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.402971

File: 1627286474704.png (470.85 KB, 708x669, 1626031310243.png)

>>401402
>religious communist
>oxymoron
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 No.402982

>>402969
>>402971
Latin American caths are based, european caths are cucked and porky pilled
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 No.403004

>>402982
They're scum, and I'm a spic myself
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 No.403027

>>401457
>>402982
Most catholics are non European now. It’s mostly Latin America and Africa.
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 No.403057

protestantism was somewhat arguably progressive in medieval times and also animated a number of movements for social justice in burgerland, for better or worse though as the current spate of wokeism can attest


File: 1626797888646.jpg (82.21 KB, 426x568, Hitler_portrait_crop.jpg)

 No.390345[Reply]

Do marxist really belive that if hitler wasn't born, 6 millions would still be dead at the end of world war 2?
That operation barbarossa would be a failure?
Or that if gorbachov wasn't born the soviet union would still fall?
Or that if trotsky succeded lenin the USSR would be the same thing as with Stalin?
29 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.402948

File: 1627284653987.jpg (8.35 KB, 239x241, Implying_babby20110724-220….jpg)

>>390345
Do marxist really belive that if hitler wasn't born, 6 millions would still be dead at the end of world war 2?
Marxists reject the idea of greatman theory because to argue that Hitler was directly responsible for all the atrocities of WWII is a somewhat reductive analysis. Yes, Hitler gave the order, but who pulled the trigger? Yes, Hitler gave speeches, but who gave him the microphone?
Hitler was the face and the commander of the Nazi regime, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that he was alone in building the Nazi war machine and enforcing it. Alongside him were others who shared his genocidal aspirations, who (if we are to deal with hypotheticals) could have also followed suit and did what hitler did.
Alexander the great was nothing without his army. It's due to the fact that most historians portray and write history as more of a story often with a lack of materialist analysis that we get these greatman theories. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of people in the world who could, if given power, be like Adolf Hitler, but they lack the connections, resources and men to do so.

>That operation barbarossa would be a failure?

Again, a hypothetical. But at the end of the day, Babarossa was a failure.

>Or that if gorbachov wasn't born the soviet union would still fall?

Again, a hypothetical, at the end of the USSR fell.

>Or that if trotsky succeded lenin the USSR would be the same thing as with Stalin?

Again, also a hypothetical. We can see the ideological differences in both sides, but we can only speculate and imagine how the USSR would have changed based on these policies being enacted, which again, leads us to analysing history as more of a story and have us try to analyse material conditions which may or may not have arisen based on said policies.
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 No.402960

>>390411
Both of those were porkies factions. At best it would be difference with nationalist liberal and full neolib factions. By the time when Gorby came into picture USSR was already done for.
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 No.402976

>>390938
>I agree but a historian guy on reddit said that historical materialism is bullshit
r/historymemes isn't inhabited by historians you know?
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 No.402984

>if hitler wasn't born
Yes
>that if gorbachov wasn't born the soviet union would still fall
Highly likely
>trotsky succeded lenin
Now that's just leaving alternative history for a pure fantasy scenario lol
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 No.402986

I think you're all the greatest… posters!


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