[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)
What is 6 - 2?

Check out our new store at shop.leftypol.org!

| Catalog | Home
|

 

Another Communization Theory thread because why not?

Talk about anything relating to Communization Theory! Talk about how Communization Theory is great or how its shit!

Texts regarding Communization Theory and its many sub-sects will be attached in the replies.

[NOTE: Not every Communizer believes in the same things, e.g. some emphasis class struggle while others don't]
35 posts and 8 image replies omitted.

>>2891649
How is it like anarchism

>>2891037
ok but how is this non-immediate immediacy supposed to look like when you are in lenin's shoes? if it doesnt mean stopping using money immediately, then lenin would still have had to have established state capitalism, but i guess now the idea to spend time creating some communes here and there?

>>2891661
I *think* (not that anon, but familiar with Neel's work) the idea is that you just have to never stop trying to take it as far as it can go and let it die. I am quite possibly missinterpreting, but the takeaway I get is that it would have been more productive if Russian revolution died a bloody death trying to push it forward than for it to re-constitute itself as a self-protecting project. Idea being that in its death, it would have contributed to building the movement by creating more hardened remnants. He talks about it in his Theory of the Party that the worst thing an ephemeral communist party could do is to become obsessed by its own survival or to glorify itself as the be-all end-all of the communist project. Basically, I think he envisions it as a recurrent tide that grows stronger or weaker that at some point will be strong enough.

>>2891570
Worth noting that the exponential aspect can be reset, as it was over our last century. We are now among the wreckages of the movement, about in the same place as in pre-Marxian times.

>>2891640
Interview he did here
https://terrabayt.com/dusunce/english/crisis-capital-and-hell-on-earth-an-interview-with-phil-neel/
>>2891661
Phil acutally gives a bit of Leninist critique in the next paragraph:
>That said, I’m not a communization theorist. I do not like the framework or the term. I do not think there is anything special about our era that makes us any more (or less) prone to building communism today than we were in the past, though perhaps the possibility becomes more clearly visible or more necessary. I certainly draw a lot of influence from theorists associated with the current, but that’s simply because they are good, interesting, and rigorous Marxist thinkers. As for myself, I consider myself an entirely orthodox communist. That includes both the Marxian aspect, as well as the sequence of practical lessons learned in the long history of struggle and elaborated in theories of revolutionary organization. In this respect, I think many within the communization current do not focus enough on the frictions that arise in the pragmatic process of building power in a hostile world, even if they do a great job of symptomatizing the limits faced by existing uprisings and relating them to large-scale, structural trends. In other words, while they’re very good Marxists, they’re often not very good Leninists.

>It is necessary to think quite hard about the likely sequence of social transformation, the forms of revolutionary organization that would be needed to channel that process, and the geopolitical, administrative, and economic demands placed on any revolutionary force that emerges and holds any territory. In this regard, we still do not have any better living examples than the saga of the Soviet Union, the protracted people’s war in China, and the struggle for survival by isolated revolutionary states like Cuba. These are also case studies in the extreme ways that revolutionary societies can degenerate, either into bizarre chimeras like North Korea or, more conventionally, by melting back into the liberal order, as in Russia an
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2890768
When has a centralized form of organisation led to the propagation of communist measures? When has it led to communist measures at all? Your second point contradicts itself, also



 

No, seriously. What causes someone to become a left communist? Too much reading and not enough living in the real world? Just trying to find a leftist ideology that excuses total inaction?
176 posts and 26 image replies omitted.

File: 1787015425793-3.mp4 (148 KB, 630x480, 2sp00ky4m3.mp4)

>>2891752
>>2891743
>>2891740
As someone who recently visited the pleroma, you offend me with how little you know about gnosticism, hermeticism or even Marxism-Leninism. I am truly shooketh.
>>2891837
You read someone attempting to greenpill, but falling short.
>>2891861
You see you are logical, but in the minds of the purist bordigafags, if your communism is not 100% idealist orthodoxy, then you are not a real communist and you better give up because that Hayekian voice in their heads is constantly nagging them with "nut reel gommunizm". Like this bordigafag over here:
>>2891917
Can you please show me what an economy without commodity production will look like?

>>2894579
The Stalin thread was full of bad faith arguments whereas here, everyone is respectful at least. You will never be a GOD bordigafag.

>>2894768
nah, you are just bitchmade, thats why you hide behind jannies, just like shitalin did behind beria

>>2895389
Never hid behind jannies.
Bordigafag, tell me your ideology. I want to learn about your ideology. tell it to me.

>>2892115
the position this quote refers to was deprecated by the advent of the internet



File: 1782691189784-9.png (1019.75 KB, 1947x1132, ClipboardImage.png)

 

For those sick of Zigger Putlerites, Chigger Dengoids, Irauyghur Islamists, DPRK ethno-national-monarchoids, and other right wing multipolaroid schizos pretending MUH ACK-SIS OF RESISTANCE and MUH AMERISRAELI MUTTREICH has anything to do with class struggle.

ITT we laugh at classcuck jewish niggers who pretend:
<the end of America = the end of Capitalism
<Judaism/Zionism is a bigger enemy than Capitalism
<islamists are real resistance to capitalism
<dengoids are real resistance to capitalism
<monarcho-nazism in DPRK is real resistance to capitalism
<muh sahel coalition gang raping gay men is real resistance to capitalism

etc. etc. etc.
354 posts and 57 image replies omitted.

>>2878642
cont.
>>2853401
The bourgeoise definition can explain everything, but the problem of the bourgeoise will present itself in any system as time goes on.

File: 1785255329778-9.png (386.34 KB, 770x1280, leftypol in 2026 lmfao.png)

>>2878429
>Socialism is when clash of civilizations and traditionalism. You (liberal cosmopolitan lgb trnny) wouldn't get it.
the cvltvre war won

>>2859254
we hold these truths to be self evident

BUMP

File: 1787095372344-0.png (2.24 MB, 1891x1080, the people's racism.png)

Good thread



 

Leftypol is seriously lacking when it comes to a yugoslavia thread. It may not exist on a map, but it still is carried in the hearts of many, and it's vision was not extinguished by it's destruction, it is like a star, though it may long since been dead, it shines bright upon many around the universe, and serves as an image displaying the light and truth.
4 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

It's hard to dislike Tito as a person but i don't know what he was thinking rejecting the USSR like that. Most politically retarded man alive.

>>2894919
The Soviets did have a tendency to treat their allies like proxies, as the Chinese observed later on. Also Tito's beef was legitimate. The Greek communists needed help and Stalin wanted to leave them to die to appease British imperialism. As always an open split was going too far but the Yugos had good reasons to be angry.


>>2894918


That's just all marxist-leninism at this point. all state socialism. yes all

Mandatory



File: 1787040479034-6.png (62.39 KB, 512x512, Medicine_pipe.png)

 

Pretty much everyone under 50 in the US is aware that the drug war failed. Once we rule out those on the right who feel that the only reason it failed was a lack of authoritarianism, need it to justify various prejudices towards the "wrong" sort of people etc.. and the like, we come down to even vaguely centrists from a social point of view and an even wider group for economic ones (though the specifics of implementation may differ), see that this is a failed, ineffective strategy. Especially among those who define themselves as left leaning, why is ending the drug war and replacing it with legalization and regulated, affordable substances a greater political focal point?

Every historical and material example shows that prohibition is not going to be effective and brings its own problems, not to mention that the motivation for these policies were often intentional to hurt varying groups of people deemed undesirable - from the entire alcohol prohibition era until its repeal for instance, or the now famous Nixon staffer talking about how drugs were an easy way to target 'the hippies, mexicans, and blacks', the cocaine era and crack epidemic, AIDS being spread by sharing needles, and so much more. Its now common knowledge that not only did "drugs win the drug war, and continue to do so" but all the harm done by it also made profiteers wealthy, from narco traffickers who operated private armies, to the whole Iran-Contra affair and Air America black budget work in the Golden Triangle during and after Vietnam, to military-industrial complex extended to militarized policing etc. Most of the money went to a handful of people from the criminal enterprise or those ostensibly fighting it, while people paid more for worse quality, less safe products. This is no longer the kind of thing you'd only read about from some underground zine next to psychotic ramblings, its well documented and seemingly, accepted . So why are we not doing anything about it ?

It seems that the only lefties who comment on the drug issue at all are those with the myopic to just plain incorrect issue of fixating on pharmaceutical companies, doctors etc.. at fault for things like the opioid crisis, which is far from the truth. While certain companies like Perdue Pharma were guilty of malfeasance (the specifics here I can get into but the way they advertised it even to medical professionals was inaccurate ) and there were cash only "pill mill" doctorsPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted.

dude weed lmao

Big tobacco and big alcohol are working on reversing cannabis legalization right now and preventing psilocybin, they’re very aware that in terms of drugs alcohol and tobacco aren’t very good experiences nor good for you. The only way they keep their profits is as a monopoly on psychoactives, when alcohol becomes just one niche in a broader industry, they fall apart.

File: 1787072059305-8.jpeg (33.55 KB, 452x678, images.jpeg)

>the drug war failed
You misunderstand. The "war on drugs" is a proxy legislation to give pretext for greater police powers. If the state actually wanted to crack down on drug traffic, all they would have to do is go to a drug dealer, run up the ranks to the distributor and stop it. Instead, homeless people openly overdose on heroin in broad daylight while the police watch it all happen - there is no war on drugs, there is a war on citizens.
>prohibition
Prohibition allowed bootleggers to sell alcohol on the black market, but alcohol consumption still decreased by around 30%. If we got rid of today's drug prohibition, we would see an increase in its use therefore. Regulations do work - just not completely.
>I'd advocate for a program of regulated legalization, where the substances are legal to possess and use, but who and how they can be bought, or manufactured for widespread sale, can be regulated properly similar to other intoxicants, be it for medical or recreational use.
Why? If alcohol has full license to be circulated, why not drugs? I fail to make a rational argument myself, and so only appeal to culture. There are alcoholic cultures (typically of European heritage), but there are other cultures which prefer marijuana (such as Islamic cultures).

>>2895042
Well maybe, but I rarely see them taking strong stances on it despite it being something that both socially and economically could be beneficial and even signal a break with the status quo. You don't see incoming candidates saying they're going to legalize ALL drugs and put an end to punitive "drug war" policies, changing how we interact with them and offering a new vision to replace the old one that clearly isn't working

>>2895073
To some degree, but I wonder how much of that are those that are ideologically opposed to 'drugs' or 'drug users'. From a purely financial standpoint, they could do just as they did with nicotine vapes and simply join in selling something different. Kinda like how the same beverage companies that pushed alcohol have now also started buying up brands of non-alcoholic "boutique mocktail" alternatives because there's a certain demographic who don't drink like they used to. Same could be with drugs. While I have no interest in watching Anheiser-Busch attempt to monopolize cannabis with "Bud Lite huhhuhuhehehee Bud" I'd rather have them as one of many vendors offering a product than it be illegal. WE've seen even oil companies take dips into everything from ethanol to solar when it was financially easier for them to do so vs trying to fight against the tide (of course the current administration has now pushed that back twice) but its an option. Its usually easier for them to join rather than trying to beat them back, even if we're just talking profit potential. Of course, any leftist should need to craft policy to ensure that profiteering won't allow megacorps to control the industry and push out healthier, ethical competitors but that's sort of universal no matter what we're talking about from food to drugs.

>>2895092
>War on drugs, war on people
I already mentioned this, but that's the things people figured it out and its now common knowledge. Nixon's chief of staff (I think) has the comment about how they can't make it illegal to be black or protest the war, but if they associate blacks with heroin and hippies with marijuana, they have reaPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

This site would improve considerably if everyone here used some more drugs.



File: 1787034804903-2.png (1.34 MB, 1280x719, ClipboardImage.png)

 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2026/08/18/yvoe-a18.html

On Monday, August 10, a court in Pervomaisk, Ukraine, convicted the Ukrainian socialist Bogdan Syrotiuk of high treason under martial law and sentenced him to 15 years in prison for having called for the unity of Russian and Ukrainian workers against war.

The response to the verdict has been significant and widespread. Nearly 500 people in more than 40 countries, Ukraine and Russia among them, have signed the petition for Bogdan’s release or written letters of protest since the sentencing, and the petition now stands at more than 6,000 names. Historians, doctors, teachers and pensioners have written to the court demanding that the conviction be overturned.

This response stands in sharp contrast to the silence of the major media outlets in the United States and, in particular, the New York Times. The Times has never reported on Bogdan’s case, either his arrest and imprisonment on April 25, 2024, or his sentencing on August 10.

The Times cannot plead ignorance. On Tuesday, August 11, David North, the chairman of the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS) International Editorial Board, wrote to Philip Pan, the international editor of the Times, calling on the paper to cover the case. North pointed out that on the day of Bogdan’s sentencing the Times had published a report headlined “Russian Court Bars Country’s Only Antiwar Party From Running for Parliament,” which noted the seven-year sentence given to the Yabloko party’s deputy chairman, Maxim Kruglov, for a 2022 social media post, while the paper had printed nothing about a Ukrainian sentenced to more than twice that term.

“If the suppression of antiwar political activity in Russia warrants extensive reporting—and it certainly does—then the sentencing of a Ukrainian socialist to 15 years in prison for activities that include publishing antiwar articles warrants no less serious scrutiny,” North wrote.

The Times did not reply. One week after Bogdan’s sentencing, it published a front-page article titled “Held by Russia, Ukrainian Feels ‘Crushing’ Fear,” with a nine-minute produced audio version. It reports on Artem Murdid, a Ukrainian bank worker arrested in occupied Melitopol in March 2023 and sentenced by a Russian court to life in prison on terrorism charges.

Four Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

This war is so fucking sick. Worst part is people taking sides and pretending like its some kind of fun video game to debate about on reddit.

Is Zelensky a stalinist?

>>2894905
No industrialization, no stalinism.

>>2894905
poroshenko banned communist parties, zelensky banned socialist parties, ended elections, and further privatized the eeconomy, with guidance from the US ruling class. zelensky is like a yeltsin's yeltsin



File: 1783381264478-1-0.jpg (165.5 KB, 802x603, DEEP BRO.jpg)

File: 1783381264478-4-1.png (289.02 KB, 1570x858, Joint Labor Values.png)

 

I have come to a serious realization.

The essence of communism is not the nationalization of the means of production. That is a byproduct of a more fundamental change in society.

The essence of communism is the government directly controlling labor i.e. people.

>besides the point, but interesting video you should check out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eZN8hmkSZU

A new government telling YOU to what to work on and where to work, given your capabilities and resources in the rest of society.
And this is objectively Good if the new government is Good.

This is a core redpill that is too hard to swallow for retards and normies. Those who understand need to evangelize the commie sigma grindset because the human capital for communism is very rare. That mindset is the Hive-mind. Broken people reject the hive-mind when it is an unavoidable prerequisite for communism. We will not be able to build communism with people broken and alienated by crapitalism. As crapistalism turns even worse, more and more of the entreprolecariat will gnosticpill themselves. The result is nihilism for the wealth accumulators and suicide for the rest. It will be a total dark age because human development and the divine reaching for the stars is possible only through social practice of actual vigor. All the good people are dying and returning to the pleroma. There are fewer and fewer people left to make communism work.

We will not see communism come back anytime soon because those that can do it, won't.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
15 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2860715
I mean hey, if that's the word you like to use. I don't think you can honestly say, though, that it doesn't have a negative connotation in the western psyche. Gemeinwesen, however, is the explicit Marxian term which I believe has been articulated by Bordiga others in his vein, and has its own delicate German connotation and etymology.

If you have spare time consult these…ah I see he does mention 'community' a lot in the manuscripts but among the most powerful is the one more on point with hivemind'. The text is 'estranged labor' and the term is 'Gattungswesen' or 'species-being'. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm mandatory reading for leftypol in general

>>2860947
I'll read it.
And yes it does have a negative connotation. Either you are viewed as naïve, a fool, or an opressor authority figure. Atomized individuals are on the entrepreneur worship train and they aren't getting off.

>>2860724
we live rent free in your head

why do you avatarfag as this bad pirate show from the 90s

>>2877941
Because I like it, at least parts of it that trigger my loosh. And it inspired Skies of Arcadia and some other things.



File: 1786890079074-9.jpeg (229.43 KB, 736x1104, Www.jpeg)

 

Questions about a theoretical communist state:

How would accreditation work under communism. Say there is a construction project. How would the materials be assessed to be of high enough quality, how would the plumbing electricity, etc be assessed to have been installed in a safe way? If one has to go into surgery how can they be sure that the medical team is operating in a properly sanitized environment without state set standards for what that would be?
17 posts omitted.

>>2893392
>without state set standards for what that would be?
"State" in marxism refers to the bureaucratic and military apparatus deployed to safeguard the interest of the bourgeoisie. This sort of administration would be abolished, just like the bourgeois revolutions in the late 19th/early 20th century abolished monarchical States.
For the administration of things, which is what you refer by State, these would be done by the people through democratic means. There's no reason that democratic assemblies could not confer oversight for regulations and safety norms to specific organs.

>>2895072
Are you going to respond to a video call at a random time of day with everyone else in the country, if not the world, to discuss and decide on regulations?

>>2893392
I suggest you read Marxist texts on the definition of the state. The state is an instrument through which one class oppresses another, because a class-based society is characterized by irreconcilable antagonisms between property owners, both against one another and against those who lack property, which inevitably lead to conflict. For this reason, an entity separate from and alienated from this society emerges to provide a certain hypocritical “order” that maintains the ruling classes in power within a class-based society.

<The state is therefore by no means a power imposed on society from without; just as little is it “the reality of the moral idea,” “the image and the reality of reason,” as Hegel maintains. Rather, it is a product of society at a particular stage of development; it is the admission that this society has involved itself in insoluble self-contradiction and is cleft into irreconcilable antagonisms which it is powerless to exorcise. But in order that these antagonisms, classes with conflicting economic interests, shall not consume themselves and society in fruitless struggle, a power, apparently standing above society, has become necessary to moderate the conflict and keep it within the bounds of “order”; and this power, arisen out of society, but placing itself above it and increasingly alienating itself from it, is the state.


<In contrast to the old gentile organization, the state is distinguished firstly by the grouping of its members on a territorial basis. The old gentile bodies, formed and held together by ties of blood, had, as we have seen, become inadequate largely because they presupposed that the gentile members were bound to one particular locality, whereas this had long ago ceased to be the case. The territory was still there, but the people had become mobile. The territorial division was therefore taken as the starting point and the system introduced by which citizens exercised their public rights and duties where they took up residence, without regard to gens or tribe. This organization of the citizens of the state according to domicile is common to all states. To us, therefore, this organization seems natural; but, as we have seen, hard and protracted struggles were necessary before it was able in Athens and Rome to displace the old
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

There would be a state, just under a different name. Just how money would be labor credits.

Unless people evolve new psychological biological, functions, the state will take care of the deficiencies.

>>2893537
You are the idiot, because you are the anarkiddie.

>>2895103
Why change the name to begin with? To deceive people?
Engels (1872):
<These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves. This is how these profound thinkers mock at the whole world.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm



File: 1786740745865-7.png (188.61 KB, 598x768, ClipboardImage.png)

 

🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

>Thread for the hellish discussion related to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™


<KKKatering KKKart KKKaiser Edition



OP Backup Site: https://usapol.neocities.org/
💀 ICE & Prison Resources

(Amerika is the most incarcerated country in the world!)

ICE tracker using public info and user submissions // https://www.iceinmyarea.org/
list of deaths at ICE concentration camps // https://www.aila.org/infonet/deaths-at-adult-detention-centers
visualization of prison population in US // https://mkorostoff.github.io/incarceration-in-real-numbers/
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
598 posts and 142 image replies omitted.

>>2895019
China is the chain that binds along with America that’s why they’re chimerica, you would have me working 28 hour shifts for productive forces

>>2894957
>Marxslop

What website do you think you are? 4chimps is that way.

new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032
new thread >>2895032

>>2894969
you have yet to do so

>>2894983
he died in 1883 at least look it up before saying stuff



File: 1786813648425-3.webm (22.63 MB, 720x1280, 1786755305187-0.webm)

 

Brazilian presidential candidate stages a falseflag, blames Leftypol
Yesterday, someone in Leftypol's latam board posted a death threat to Renan Santos, a Brazilian candidate in this year's presidential elections. Within (what I believe to be) seconds, it was deleted by the own OP. Reportedly no one saw that post, but it is in the board's log. Some hours later, websites and social media started circulating this as (minor) news, and Renan Santos promptly recorded a video (related) wearing a bulletproof vest saying he's being threatened by radical leftists in an obscure imageboard, who intended to kill him on his next speech at an university (the most famous one in Brazil), yadda yadda.
Renan Santos is a member of MBL and its Missão party, which are alt-right organizations that are somewhat popular with the Brazilian youth. He is ranking low, at only 4% of estimated votes in the upcoming elections, but he ranks higher with young voters, and will probably scoop a third place behind Lula and Bolsonaro's son.

Thoughts?
23 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

Can any mod tell us how much time that post stayed up? I'll repeat myself and say that I refreshed the boards front page several times that morning and I didn't see it.

>>2893329
Oh wow you're back

>>2893331
i think he might b running low on ice because normally by this time of day he's shat up several threads already.

>>2892901
that's crazy. are tech fascists so paranoid about leftists that they're monitoring us? we literally have no influence anywhere on the internet and i doubt more than 3k people post here

HOLY SHIT KEKKKKKK



Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM / ufo / 420 ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]
[ 1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8 /9 /10 /11 /12 /13 /14 /15 /16 /17 /18 /19 /20 /21 /22 /23 /24 /25 /26 /27 /28 /29 /30 /31 /32 /33 /34 /35 /36 ]
| Catalog | Home