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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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I hear often that to establish a communist society implies the abolition of the law of value, which means abolishing the commodity form – that objects are created for exchange rather than for use.
But how exactly do we get to do this ? It seems that the idea of exchange-value imposing itself on use-value as the dominant way of production simply reflects scarcity. Some objects are valued more than others and we would prefer that the ressources required to produce one are spent in object A than object B.
As such, how exactly do we go about to about to abolish the law of value whilst retaining the inevitable characteristic of scarcity in most domains ?

>inb4 paul dickblast

It's been a while since I've read dickblast's TANS but doesn't his concept of labor-vouchers imply commodification of labor ? Working to be able to get said-vouchers is recreating a form of exchange which reflects scarcity. It's a better monetary system than the one we have now, but it still operates under a form of the law of value. (note that it's been a while since I've read it, so this might be incorrect)
3 posts omitted.

By abolishing market exchange.

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>doesn't his concept of labor-vouchers imply commodification of labor ?
According to Marx, labour-vouchers are not money, but are simply a type of ticket or coupon which distributes goods (the communist system presupposing universal rationing of resources):
<Owen’s “labour-money,” for instance, is no more “money” than a ticket for the theatre.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch03.htm
<For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another. Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm
EBT Cards (food stamps) would be an appropriate analog.

As yet, we see that people prefer the liquidity of money to hard assets, so there is an inherent psychological issue. For example, would you rather be paid $400 in cash, $500 credit or $600 food stamps? Most people prefer cash to any other token.

>>2800836
Yeah but in the end it's reproducing the law of value but for only one type of commodity : labor. Working to get money/paid is de facto exchanging your labor for other labor, it's commodifying.

>>2800903
de facto but not de jure
Marx simply states that form and content are reversed, so we no longer have a form of value (e.g. money) but still retain its meaning.

>>2800903
>>2800917
Marx uses the same trick with the state; its not a state if it doesn't fit my definition of a state. So you can see it as dishonest if you want to.



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>Unemployment to rise by a quarter of a million as Iran war hits UK economy

<The working class in Britain faces a surge in unemployment as the economic shockwaves from the war on Iran push an already stagnating economy towards recession […]
597 posts and 89 image replies omitted.

>>2800735
>a gay bakery can't refuse to make a homophobic wedding cake

political views aren't a protected class (supposedly)

if you make cakes condemning gay marriage, you need to make one condemning straight marriage if asked

>>2800168
>Define neoliberalism as you understand it

I agree with your definition mostly but would also include tax cuts.

>[what you described] is obviously some flavor of neoliberalism, even if it's an atypical one.


It's really not, you're just proposing social democracy with extra localist characteristics. You can't be like 'they should do proper neoliberalism - high welfare, progressive taxes, and big infrastructure projects' because that's not neoliberalism. they did do neoliberalism, which is just voodoo economics and an excuse to rob the poor blind.

Left the thread for a day and its dead swear to god I carry this site on my back.

>>2799984
>>2799947
Turnout was good in the end happy days.




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I want this crisis in Iran to lead to a communist revolution in the country, but I know that the movement is weak both domestically and internationally. But still I hope.
Do you feel the same?
39 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2800734
>the actual universally hated groups are the MEK
as if the average iranian could tell the difference
>supporting their efforts
what efforts? what have they actualy done to stop the bombing of the iranian workers? unless you think cheering for schools getting bombed counts as revolutionary defeatism and the ultimate form of praxis for all nonzionists nations

>>2800738
>what efforts? what have they actualy done to stop the bombing of the iranian workers? unless you think cheering for schools getting bombed counts as revolutionary defeatism and the ultimate form of praxis for all nonzionists nations
the first part is already answered, the second part i have no fucking clue what you're talking about, the iranian communists are currently irrelevant, keyword there, "I R R E L E V A N T", they don't have enough power to do anything, they have no backing with which to carry out your fantasies, it'd be like asking the bolsheviks in 1915 to prevent german chemical warfare, they are not capable of it because they have nor the weapons, nor the numbers to achieve it!

>>2800752
*the enemy is both weak and strong

shitlamists can't even hide their fascist class collaborationist origins

>>2800752
>Iranian communists overthrowing their libshit regime is anti-zionism enough
ok I'll wait for them to go ahead and do it then
>they don't have enough power to do anything, they have no backing with which to carry out your fantasies
>waa waa they are weak and stupid all they can do is lay down and cheer for zionists while their country turns into rubble
and they'll remain like that unless they actually start opposing imperialism instead of just watching form their cushy europeans apartments how their countrymen are massacred

>>2800752
>they influence strikes that cripple the country and protests where thousands of proles lay their lives
wich strikes and protests?? unless you mean the ones initiated by the pettybourg earlier this year and swiftly taken over by mossad agents



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Is maoism completely dead? The CCP doesnt follow it and has practically disavowed it.
Modern maoism only exists online and is entirely composed of just resentful thirdworlders and non-white ethnonationalists with teenage revenge fantasies.
30 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2796164
maoism is from latin america
>>2796166
correct
>>2796168
read this thread since you didn't know the diff:

>>>/leftypol/2767836

>>2796938
>The "third world nationalism" epithet is a slur deployed by the imperial core to dismiss any anti‑imperialist struggle that refuses to bow to the will of western forces who attack sovereignty
Except when it's an accurate critique of the limitations of inherently succdem left-nationalist opportunism which more often than not serves the interests of the national bourgeoisie and petty bourgeois clans while throwing the proles and lumpens under the bus.

>>2797122
It was popular mostly among Western leftists and the diaspora who criticized the USSR for not engaging in a suicidal war against the US and accused them of being imperialist.

I lived in China for a few years and I can confirm it’s completely dead. Even in Chinese left-wing circles, the most popular thinkers are Bukharin and Engels. No one hates Mao in China he’s considered essential to win the civil war, but that’s about it. More respected as a military leader then a thinker.

>>2796166
thats MLM retard thats different from maoism wich was the result of the sino-soviet split



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https://fashfront.st/
Found this site randomly, from what I know it’s appeared fairly recently.
It’s honestly sickening to see stuff like this still and of this retarded vibe based ideology refuses to die, I mean most of their ideas about immigration and ‘Muh replacement’ are shared by billionaires and the modern day, trivial zoomer right. I literally don’t see any reason to be into something like this when you can just vOOOte another Hitlerite in democratically.

A nazi to me is simply a retard who bases his ideology on their porn addiction and le heckin based Hitler edits from Xitter.

Let’s come together and destroy this faggotite ideology forever
64 posts and 11 image replies omitted.

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>>2798364
Nobody tell them a big part of what made Mao & his guerillas so successful was that they actually mingled with and helped the locals

>>2799997
Your really leaking
>>2799995
Same thing

>>2799995
Jews won WW2, we didn't win shit.

>>2800327
How is that antisemitism?

>>2800216
I'm not doing shit Bruce



 

Why are small towns so Hitlerite? There's just an incredible amount of tribalism, anti-intellectualism and moral busybody behavior. Small towners are just people who don't know how to mind their own fucking business and get outraged over every moral panic. What the fuck is wrong with these libertarian freaks who want to diddle little girls and execute the gays? I've noticed that a lot of marginalized groups also maintain these kinds of small town politics. I just don't get it.
19 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

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re: this entire discourse

>>2800019
>muh human nature

>>2800019
People in big cities have more schizophrenia, people in rural communities tend to be more depressive. Both big cities and small rural towns are unnatural deviations from human's origins of small hunter-gatherer tribes.

>>2800638
An attempt to return to hunter gatherers tribes would mean the death of 90% of humanity, there aren’t enough wild plants and prey animals to feed us all

>>2800638
>muh primitivism



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576 posts and 143 image replies omitted.


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he's trying to shift blame for all the shitty things that will happen soon in the US on Iranians.

>>2800290
> The CIA is planning to take over Sinaloa as we speak
You stupid inbred uyghur, Rocha Moya is 100% in bed with cartels and the Us demanding his extradition iss a good thing.

>>2800243
Ben said that Iran changed the global hegemony and this war will be the end of the US empire.

>>2800410
>I suck american cock constantly
yes we know



 

I'm just thinking.
The most important factor in the definition and practises of communism during history is the role of the State in the revolution.
Marx argued that after the proleatarian takeover and socialization of the means of production the State would simply "wither away".

I am not sure, but I think this is based in a hegelian style type of dialects in which he places the "dictatorshio of the ruling class" as a thesis, then the revolutionary takeover would be an antithetical form of dictaroshio which would result in the synthesis of communism or the stateless and classless society.

To be honest, this seems like a very simplification of reality if true and that would be the reason why so many revolutions failed.

The state don't simply disappears, because maybe it isn't only a "superstructure" vased on material relations but something much more complex than that.

Hegel defined the State as some type of collective rational which is the way God guides society, and Marx's views would seem to be the complementar opposite to that theory which would be also wrong, because the State is not God or only a product of material relations but something different.

It seems the State intead of disappearing it just change its form to something else. This doesn't mean it is guided by some kind o "superior being" but it also disproves the idea it is just a temporary thing that can simply disappear.

I would be interested in discovering what the true nature of the State is, becaue it seems to be, as I said, the central point of both the revolutionary theory and also communism in general.
6 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2800233
You are a fent addict.

>>2800229
>>2800233
What is so hard for you to uderstan the idea that the State is both a form of social organization and rationality but can also be a form of social oppression?
I think even Marx would agree with it. This is some obvious shit and not a "word salad" (dumb little minded americans and anglos in general tend to use this expression for simple fluid thinking they can't grasp).
This is scientific because it comes from historical observation and also analythical thinking (derived bothe from marxism and other traditions, like weberian).

>You are supplementing class struggle and the abolishing of classes with vague (non-quantifiable) notions of social struggles. This is falsification.

Am I really?
Did the abolition of private property ended social conflicts in any way? Didn't Stalin and Trotsky had to fight for the "correct way" of conducing the revolutionary state?
You are just ignoring simples historical facts.
This is not simply binding words in an ecletical way, the reality seems to be this complex and we should analyse the world not as a blank sheet of paper and with a dialectical simpkicity but as a complex form of arrangement of societies, in which the State places itself as a battlegroung of human class and individual struggles.

I am not exactly an orthodox marxism but I don't disagree entirely with him. I am just evolving his theory after all we have seen.

>>2800239
Yes, you are american and yes, you have problems with continental way of thinking and this includes Marx itself.
You are just full if rage that can't grasp a simple fact or observation about the nature of things.
You are a disposable tool after any kind of revolution as you should be.

(I am more o a weed addict tho, cope and seethe, dumb tankie).

>>2800200
Anarchist (dumb): We don't have a state we have a horizontal federation of communes.

Marxist (smart): We don't have a state we have an administration of things.




 

Do you believe in the Bible? I'm a Baptist (eternal security/Once Saved Always Saved, Free Grace, anti-calvinist, sola fide type Christian. First you had the Ice Age, then the Ice Age melted, then that lead to stories of people building arks to survive regional floods from the Black Sea in the Neolithic period or Mesopotamia. Then came Moses. Then came Jesus who died around 33 AD under Tiberius. If you believe he is God, the "son" of God, and his death is sufficient to cover all your sins, you are saved. No works you can do will save you. Charismatic Pentecostal heretics who spew uyghurspeak at their churches they call "tongues" when even the Bible says it ceased and it was only meant for the Apostles to speak in foreign languages. Speaking nonsense like these "Apostolic" Christians like the NAR, are all heretics on their way to hell. They are the same people Jesus will say "I never knew you". The law of God is to believe in the son to have everlasting life. If you believe your works are why you should go to heaven you are at odds with Jesus and the gospel. The bible called them Pharisees. They were religious experts on the Torah and the Law of Moses so brilliantly and yet it became a source of cultural pride for them. The Sadducees didn't even believe in an afterlife! Some judaized Christians to this day don't (like "A Messenger of Truth" on YouTube). Jehovah's Witnesses don't. Hebrew Roots don't. All of these heretics who don't look to Jesus for life are doomed for Hell along with all the prosperity pimps. Anti-Paul people are never goodfaith. They've never read the Bible thoroughly. Romans is like Holy Water to a demon that is these people.
31 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2800470
Without that evil deed no one gets saved, he sacrificed his immortal soul on those thirty pieces of silver to save humanity, Judas is the most loyal disciple, the only one with the stomach to do what Yahweh needed without question, but he doesn’t get rewarded for it like David.

>>2800472
Well, in the Book of John, Judas is described as being a vessel for the Devil in the act, and later repents (refunding his silver), and committing suicide. So, if its the Devil who sells out Jesus and Judas who repents, then perhaps he is saved. For example, in Revelation, the 12 disciples are described as the 12 pillars of the New Jerusalem, meaning that Judas, as one of the 12, must be preserved. However, in Acts, Matthias is elected to replace Judas, so was Matthias always the 12th disciple? It can hardly be so. We see the 11 brothers of Joseph in Genesis sell him to the Egyptians for 20 pieces of silver, by which Joseph becomes a great King - so Jesus relates to Joseph in this way, by being sent to death, yet rising as a great King. The 11 tribes are not judged so, but are redeemed from their original iniquities. The 12 tribes then reunite and give entrance upon Jacob/Israel.

So the Judas and Jesus story is very much like that of Joseph. Jesus also asks Simon Peter to stand down from attacking the Roman guards, he forgives Peter for denying Christ three times, and Pilate is forgiven for sending Christ to die, along with the multitude, for who Christ asks for their forgiveness. Clearly, Christ is willing the necessity of his own death. We also have the apocraphyl "Gospel of Judas" in which Jesus sees Judas as the most important disciple:
https://www.gospels.net/judas

>>2800469
islam has jesus as a prophet though…

>>2800489
That's why it's better to be an atheist at the end of the day

>>2800470
in a different world, judas would be seen as a based hero of entrepreneurship and hustling



 

turns out larry ellison is a poo sniffer:

>using the java engine in android phones he records a vast amount of the global population's shits. this is a plan he boldly describes as dedicated to peace through security, and his own solemn duty. he states that only an AI watches the recordings to observe for threats and he will supply recordings to the government with a court order.


>some would call this the raving delusion of an irresponsible madman. however for larry this is the latest incarnation of a software product he built in the 90s, one that would take detailed metrics on professional software programming teams, and page him whenever a programmer was about to take a bathroom break. this early success was the cornerstone of a business portfolio worth trillions of dollars.


>besides high tech AI and large scale IT infrastructure projects ellison's empire extends to television and multimedia production. he is one of the united states governments largest tech partners across all branches, and has made significant investments in israeli real estate, it's defense industry, and it's armed forces.


wtf? what other depraved shit are billionaires up to?

>>2799697
the existence of the petit bougeois is not a reason to ignore the excessive crimes of the arch vampire tier true bourgeois ya fuckin dickhead.

>>2799665
what's the link to the account?

>>2799771
this website is entirely about ragebaiting each other with kafka traps and unfalsifiable accusations. haven't you gotten the memo?

>>2799665
>wtf? what other depraved shit are billionaires up to?
anyone else remember the john mcafee antivirus guy being into scat and sex with literal whales? what a funny guy

File: 1777790384417.png (3.9 MB, 1816x1536, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2799697
>Petite really think they're welcome in the real movement
They always have been as long as they're class traitors, or in the case of national liberation struggle, as part of a temporary coalition with the proletariat.



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