/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2932241
>>2932338
>If you don't like MOMALA, you're a TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!11
IFSTG, are we REALLY fucking doing this bullshit again?
>the democrat is gonna do all the things the current republican government is doing !
Just like how 0bama closed down GTMO and ended the Terror War? Oh, that's right, he continued Bush's wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, overthrew the Libyan government and destabilized Syria and Yemen.

but she kinda hot tho

>>2933636
Sir. This is a coconut pilled board.

Kamala means terrible in Finnish

>>2933636
Why bring her up specifically if both sides (rep and dems) do it ? You know exactly why
Everytime there is an election we have republican shills come in

>>2933496
Garbage study.
https://beyondtheabstract.substack.com/p/is-rising-co2-changing-our-blood

At least you will have had fun with your manner bund raping white wimminz

>>2933503
nah, our grandchildren will live in a society where their worth is decided by colour of their pants, travel in spaceships that run on matchstick phosphorus and eat plastic gruel

>>2933511
You should, it’s funny

when people talk about the consequences of climate change they often just talk about the temperature itself or tend to envision vast barren deserts or an extreme venus-like hellscape, but the real nightmare will be the fact that the earth won't be barren at all - it will be teeming with life, and all of it will be the worst kinds of life that humans have no use for at all, almost everything that lives will be ugly and smelly and slimy and diseased and filthy and worthless. rats and roaches and parasites and disease-causing smelly toxic gas-producing bacteria and toxic algae and venomous jellyfish and thorny bramble and gnarled thin trees, all the plants and animals we liked will be gone and we'll be alone in a hostile world that has no place for us. we will realize too late that there was, in fact, a god all along and it was the earth and we have killed god and now nothing can save us.

>>2932630
Yeah it might be a structural vs phenomenal discrepancy. The underlying potential and direction of production changes by virtue of the world's contingency, but this manifests itself through class struggle as new interests emerges in tandem with underlying changes. For instance, you could say that the development of naval science, of travel possibilities and trade potential created the bourgeoisie, which then sought to reorganize production around their special interest, leading to clashes over the control of production

>it's that new technological developments are "hindered" by existing relations of production.
Yes – Marx for instance sees that capitalism develops from the profit motive, up to a point, but has now become limited to profit, and so the proletariat must struggle to control productivity by political power (e.g. the very medium of exchange value is the limit of production by limiting circulation – while Proudhonists seek to reform circulation by currency reforms, Marx sees that it must all begin in production itself):
<Vulgar socialism […] has taken over from the bourgeois economists the consideration and treatment of distribution as independent of the mode of production and hence the presentation of socialism as turning principally on distribution.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm
So, it's about contradictions leading to concrete struggles in society:
<In these crises, a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed. In these crises, there breaks out an epidemic that, in all earlier epochs, would have seemed an absurdity — the epidemic of over-production.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm
Dutt perceives war as a result of this need to periodically destroy the means of production – the promise of peace is a promise of productivity.

>>2932640
>The underlying potential and direction of production changes by virtue of the world's contingency, but this manifests itself through class struggle as new interests emerges in tandem with underlying changes.
<The resolution of structural crises in a mode of production always depends on the direct intervention of the class struggle; but the germination of such crises may well take all social classes by surprise in a given historical totality, by deriving from other structural levels of it than their own immediate confrontation. It is their clash within the unfolding emergency which, as wc shall see in the case of the feudal crisis, then determines its outcome
t. Perry Anderson, Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism
Maybe reading a concrete application of the materialist conception of history like his will help you develop a better understanding of it?

There's a tension in Marxist rhetoric on whether history is just a blind procession of technology (the windmill gives you feudal lords, the steam engine gives you industrial capitalists, electrification and soviet power gives you communism) vs. at some point humans have to seize society by the throat and make history happen because history isn't a god outside society and actually depends on human will. In the former mode they write like socialism is inevitable, like when Eugene Debs said despite all the setbacks socialism is as sure to come as the rising sun.

This kind of also ties into "liberty", which in itself is very theoretical. In practice, it's how much power you possess, which is usually in the form of capital nowadays.

>>2934175
By that logic you can never really own anything because someone could just come and take it away from you

>>2934179
Unfortunately, yes, it is mine insofar as I'm able to keep it according to the norms of society.

>>2934180
Sure but you can say the same about anything, you might get beheaded if you break the rules also does that mean your body is not yours? Don't chase impossible ideals, pay your property taxes and be happy, it's still far better to own than to rent

>>2934181
Your life and its experiences is more real than these other memes that the later liberal thinkers tend to attribute as real

>>2933652
Unfortunately, yes, it is mine insofar as I'm able to keep it according to the norms of society.

>>2933653
Sure but you can say the same about anything, you might get beheaded if you break the rules also does that mean your body is not yours? Don't chase impossible ideals, pay your property taxes and be happy, it's still far better to own than to rent

>>2933654
Your life and its experiences is more real than these other memes that the later liberal thinkers tend to attribute as real

>>2933646
>>2933648
That is the idea.
"Mine" and "thine" is mediated by the Sovereign, who is the collective "mine" and "thine".
Property is only excluded from other subjects, but your sense of "property" is in the same way that a child has possessions in his father's house. Technically, the father owns the entire house, but you still get your particular room and items.
As far as Hobbes is concerned, this is as good as it gets.
Without security to procure any fruits of property, there would be no foundation for property at all without unceasing interruption and jockeying (which is no basis for any prosperity, you cannot begin any industrial venture if it keeps being interrupted on insecure grounds).
Hobbes cites Cicero (a staunch proponent of liberty) for proof of this:

Thomas Hobbes
>Which is so evident, that even Cicero, (a passionate defender of Liberty,) in a public pleading, attributes all Propriety to the Law Civil, "Let the Civil Law," says he, "be once abandoned, or but negligently guarded, (not to say oppressed,) and there is nothing, that any man can be sure to receive from his Ancestor, or leave to his Children." And again; "Take away the Civil Law, and no man knows what is his own, and what another man's."

This is ultimately back to the guarantee of arbiters.
Where does your property begin or end? –You cannot just say, "This is mine" over someone else's "thine" without conflict. That is the role of the arbiter to mediate and say, "This is thine" to you and "This is thine" to someone else, and the "mine" and "thine" between every person of the State is manifest through the cult of personality of the Sovereign, who is the person for all persons, bringing all of "mine" and "thine" into harmony, so everyone can feel at peace with each other.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2933656
stfu

This kind of also ties into "liberty", which in itself is very theoretical. In practice, it's how much power you possess, which is usually in the form of capital nowadays.

>>2933552
By that logic you can never really own anything because someone could just come and take it away from you

>>2933556
Unfortunately, yes, it is mine insofar as I'm able to keep it according to the norms of society.

>>2933557
Sure but you can say the same about anything, you might get beheaded if you break the rules also does that mean your body is not yours? Don't chase impossible ideals, pay your property taxes and be happy, it's still far better to own than to rent

>>2933558
Your life and its experiences is more real than these other memes that the later liberal thinkers tend to attribute as real

This kind of also ties into "liberty", which in itself is very theoretical. In practice, it's how much power you possess, which is usually in the form of capital nowadays.

>>2933542
By that logic you can never really own anything because someone could just come and take it away from you

>>2933546
Unfortunately, yes, it is mine insofar as I'm able to keep it according to the norms of society.

>>2933547
Sure but you can say the same about anything, you might get beheaded if you break the rules also does that mean your body is not yours? Don't chase impossible ideals, pay your property taxes and be happy, it's still far better to own than to rent

>>2933548
Your life and its experiences is more real than these other memes that the later liberal thinkers tend to attribute as real

>>2933229
I am not tallying points, I am having a discussion. The moment friendship occurs is when two people notice they can freely swap places in the status game, e.g. they recognise it as a game and play it. I am simply trying to convey that there is no pure world free of status games amongst humans.

You draw hanania too far. You can explain elements of institutionalised HR wokeness by reference to legal and state structures, but this does not explain the part once termed "SJWism", whereas a dispositional theory - for example - is much more powerful.

There is either no such thing as organic culture (it is all man made) or religion (considered broadly) is an organic phenomenon. I share contempt for that which is generally recognized as religious faith but I do not believe the underlying impulses towards it have been removed from man. Politics, media, fandom, Internet communities, all are ersatz religions in one way or another. (And that's basically a good thing)

>>2933245
>status games
No. Friendship occurs by a dissolution of competing status.
A friend doesn't care what you are signalling to others.
>SJW
Material analysis.
What are the concrete demands of SJWs?
Political, economic and social power, relative to what they consider the hegemony of "straight (cis) white men". It is vulgar class war.
>man-made means inorganic
What? We are humans, so everything we do is "man-made".
>worshipping your own alienation (objectification) is good
You mentioned girard. What does he say about scapegoating, again?
Religion presupposes tribute to an alienated subject through which we become objectified. Capital is idolatry which demands sacrifice, etc.

>>2932820
Not watching all of that though I really don't have that much sympathy for some of these street preachers

>>2933279
By what means is the competition dissolved? By recognising it as a game where one can harmlessly play high or low depending on what is more fun at the time. It never actually disappears: many of the behaviours we engage in with friends only make sense in the context of there still being a generalised status game going on. Plus, of course, we still compete with friends (even if playfully) in various contexts. (Most obviously in actual games, where the general pattern is to try to win, but then switch to letting the friend win if you're winning too much. What most people really want is to be just slightly above their peers, not enough to upset egalitarianism, but not slightly below either…)
Moreover a friend absolutely cares what you signal: try never signalling interest in what they have to say and see how long they remain a friend!

I agree that SJWism is vulgar class war (broadly or functionally, most then-SJWs are now self-proclaimed socialists and communists) but this, if anything, reinforces my point that "wokeness" as a floating signifier includes these people despite the fact their existence is rooted not in a certain legal framework, but in other underlying material conditions. (the ones that have lead basically every first world country to electorally polarise politically by age, education, and to a lesser extent sex) thus, you draw Hanania too far.
>What? We are humans, so everything we do is "man-made".
Yes. All culture is an artificial creation unless you want to go down the rabbit hole of whether some animals have culture. This is precisely my point.

If you look at all the contemporary ersatz-religions save perhaps the global Trump cult, they are less cruel than what has come before. To objectify oneself to Marxism Leninism or the TADC fandom or some other inane cause is a cultural leap ahead of doing so in the name of the supernatural. (Not to be confused with the TV Series Supernatural, you can objectify yourself as a fan of that all you like.)

p.s. stop doing this quote line-by-line thing. You claim not to be here for point-scoring but the only reason to write in such a way is to score points instead of engaging with a post holistically.

>>2928345
Guy who hates the spontaneity of the working class but will do nothing to organise them. There can be no 1917 without 1905.

>>2932907
GEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

>>2932954
it was kc tire

>>2932525
Pretty much how I see it. NuttyYahoo will likely win but it doesn't matter. Theres no unfucking the economy, or Negotiating an exit from the war(s). The second the U.S is incapable of projecting power in the middle east. Hez and iran will march into israel like the allies marching into Berlin.

>>2932907
This is more evidence of the upcoming Israeli bond crisis: if you look at the credit rating agencies they have Israel rated way too high, if you look at the interest rates of their bonds they're too low.

it doesn't take a genius to know the fundamentals are fucked up and there's a finger on the scale. Israel is already raiding the deep Forex reserves the ratings agencies are holding up as their excuse, what do they think will happen when more investors judge the risk for themselves and pull out?

>>2932902
Overwhelmingly majority of """israelis""" are comically evil and need to be purged or gulaged en masse, not falling for your humanization of literal sadistic baby killing and torturing subhuman monsters

>>2932421
Communism is just the end of history from the basis of the class struggle as it has existed so far. Social evolution will still occur and there will probably be new realms of societal struggle in time.

>>2932421
>keep evolving forever?
I don't see why not. The thing is, Marxism might also die out (at least an "ideology") because there would no longer be a need for it and then people would come up with something different in order to better solve problems that emerge at the stage of an interplanetary civilization. It's not an eternal worldview, it's a historically produced critical theory of a particular social order.

>>2932421
Yes next would be the robot revolution, putting people in the matrix, gray goo, humans becoming the borg, vengeful aliens turning us into postmodern art, that kinda thing.

>>2932421
Communism is the end of the prehistory of mankind.