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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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>"Wanted to have an adventure and kill some people. Joined up in ‘04, did Fallujah and Ramadi, and managed both. Hell of an excellent experience."

>"There are times in this world when, for the good of tolerance and humanity, you need to kill a motherfucker. Sadly most people who are true believers in tolerance and humanity find that activity repulsive. Which I suppose is morally good, but pragmatically a shortfall."


>"Out of curiosity, what would you say to the many Marines and Soldiers who took trophies and desecrated bodies while fighting the Japanese? I find the urinating on bodies as a poor choice, but only because of the current state of media affairs. It's amusing that today killing a man isn't worthy of comment, but god forbid you display dominance. Only 50 years ago, and for the rest of the history of warfare, this stuff was pretty standard."


>"We are going to kill thousands. By the end of it, it may be millions. Our way of life is better, and if that is what it takes to prevail, let's get this show on the road. I don't disagree with your point, I just disagree with the fact you seem to think we shouldn't do it."


https://archive.org/download/graham_platner_reddit_comments/graham_platner_reddit_comments.txt

the tattoo and the racist and misogynistic stuff graham platner has said in the past were certainly red flags for me, but honestly when i actually started reading through the comments myself, i realized it's actually worse than people seem to realize. it goes beyond just teenage edgelord internet shenanigans, this is someone who seems to have a genuine fascination with killing and hurting people, he talks about it a lot and brags about it a lot, he claims that he joined the military because he wanted to kill people and that he enjoyed killing people and he constantly talks about how empowering it feels and how much he misses it.

i've known a lot of people who have served in the military and i've never known any of them to say things like this. but i have heard a few of them talk about meeting certain other members of the military who did. most people who join the military are decent normal people who join for the usual kinds of reasons - Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>2834009
assuming this person sodomized people w that thing, funny to think she was my countryman and is probably well-off w some consulting gig or gainfully retired.

>>2833372
>To be fair to Kyle, Fetterman was a totally different person back then, before the brain damage
no he really wasn't, he was just better at faking it. the jogger incident is the best known example of him always being a hotheaded asshole, but I have also been in the same room as pre-stroke fetty IRL and witnessed him raging out the exact same way at some mild left pushback from a fucking DSA meeting. the stroke didn't make him an asshole, it just took away his ability to pretend he wasn't

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>>2826855
People are desperate to reduce criticism of Graham Platner to the rejection of ex USA military people in a wider movement when it's never been that. There are plenty of clearly repentant veterans with with histories of activism and political experience. That background is important in that it makes it more likely that this is a person you can trust to cooperate with your political agenda. Platner does not have that. On the contrary he has an extremely sketchy background which he has lied about. Furthermore many supposedly radical independent journalists and media figures (Ryan Grim, Majority Report, Hasan Piker) have repeatedly lied about him. They said he regrets his participation in the military, he doesn't. They said he is anti-war, he isn't. They said he is anti Israel, he's a liberal zionist. They said he has a working class background, he owns an oyster business and comes from a business owning family.

Regarding his class background, it is not a moral failing that he is from a bourgeoisie family, but it's the fact that he and the previously mentioned media people have lied about it. And when that lie and all the others are pointed out, all those legitimate demonstrable criticisms and their conclusion (that there is no good reason to trust this guy and they should have gotten a better candidate), are waved away by Grim, ME, Piker etc. as incoherent crying by tankies or ultras or third worldists. If you are not from the USA, they'll jump to "stfu this isn't your country", as if USA senators weren't people with powers that can affect whole planet. If you are from the USA they'll throw the contrapoints/basil criticism at you (not verbatim because that would be too embarrassing for them): "you don't want power you just want to endlessly critique power". Which has been endlessly ripped apart but once again: any ideologically driven person does not want power just for it's own sake, they want the things that that power can obtain, in the case of leftists a better socioeconomic system.

>>2839037
truthfully I don't remember any of what he said in that meeting that wasn't angry hollering. because I was in the back of the room and he absolutely refused to use a microphone, no matter how many times we tried to tell him it was an accessibility issue. every single other candidate just got up at the podium and spoke, but he insisted on doing his fakeass "man of the people" act in the middle of the aisle and refused to touch the wireless mic they kept trying to hand him
(yeah I know, lol DSA electoral shit, I was a dumbass and had to learn the hard way how retarded it was)

>>2838380
Total pro-lifer death



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Being decently read in both Anarchist and Marxist schools of thought is really funny, because of how much shit people from both schools of thought clearly haven't read outside of that school of thought. Like I've seen both anarchists and Marxists say shit that's blatantly not true about each others theory because I think people don't like reading things they might potentially disagree with. I actually read anti-socialist texts from time to time, because I generally like to keep an open mind about such things, i feel like people get so absorbed into one of way of thinking that it just leads to thought termination. Also being actually exposed to ideas you disagree with helps you better formulate your disagreements with said ideas and to actually better critique them. Any thoughts I guess, I'm not shit talking the tendencies by the way more the behavior of certain individuals within them.

>>2838784
>I think people don't like reading things they might potentially disagree with
yeah most people are intellectually cowards like this

Yes but it is worth pointing out the aged phases of this too.
For example what you say reminds me of the… "discourse" you see on communities like Deprogram subeddit, but that also has a clear bias towards the very young and recently initiated. They simply haven't had time to read more than an individual few number of works, if any at all in full, relying on hunches, memes, summaries, guesstimations, wikipedia, LLM responses for a lot of their "views" so far.
It's up to the older among us, I'd say anyone past 25 y/o, to intervene without as much condescension as is sometimes observable and actually be informative in a dialectical way about the misinfo haze they find themselves in.
Among the hardest struggles personally is to 1. discard the pb "read a book stupid" mentality that chans have fostered in me and in addition to actually systematize referencing and sourcing. For the longest time I just read books willy nilly and tried store this shit in memory, approximally verbalize "the gist" to those that dont know. I've come to learn how inefficient that is due to the sheer depth of younger people's theoretical illiteracy, a consequence of AI-powered social media evolution compromizing them dopaminergically to petty bourg "left" populist grifters.

"who could've thought he'd become a fascist" >>2838823

>>2838784
Curious about some examples from both sides if you have any

>>2838784
>people from both schools of thought clearly haven't read outside of that school of thought
people don't even read shit from their own school of thought
myself included



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In the case of slavery, we see that in the British Empire, it was abolished through reform. They passed the act to abolish it in 1833. In the case of America it was abolished through Civil War. Both slaves and white people were in the union army and participated in abolition. In the case of Haiti we have revolution. The slaves overthrew their masters. Some say were a few Europeans on the side of the slaves, ironically a Polish diaspora who Dessalines eventually made legally black and protected from the purges that targeted the French.

In the case of serfdom, we see sometimes the organic disappearance of serfdom from society through its obsolescence. Britain never emancipated its serfs through legal acts. Instead the black plague and 1381 peasants revolt weakened the institution without abolishing it, and by 1600 it was largely over with. the 1640s English civil wars, which some call its bourgeois revolution, did not even abolish serfdom, since it was already through by that point. In other cases we see a top down-abolition of serfdom, as in Russia, under the tsar in the 1800s , and in Japan through the Meiji restoration. These were not bourgeois revolutions but top down reforms carried out by rather conservative and autocratic institutions that had resisted change for as long as possible.

The transition between the slavery of late antiquity and the serfdom of the middle ages was likewise a very gradual process, and did not happen through revolution or reform, but through more subtle historical processes taking place over several centuries. There were servile revolts such as the famous one led by Spartacus, but these were failed revolts, not transformative revolutions which changed the mode of production.

These lead me to my questions:

  1. I think it is indisputable that class struggle plays a foundational role in the history of all societies. However, is revolution always inevitable, or is it only what happens when all other options fail?
  2. If other options succeed, is that undesirable for communism, since communists want these changes to happen through revolution?
  3. If the same problem can be tackled in different ways, and history shows that through evidence, then why cling to the thesis that it can only happen one way?
  4. Isn't it a bit teleological to insist that the capitalist mode of production must end in a specific way, i.e. through reform, through re
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>2838121
>>2838141
i want to clarify that this guy is not OP

>>2838173
Good reply, thank you.

>>2836715
I think Lenin on the Prussian path of agrarian development is relevant here.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1907/agrprogr/ch01s5.htm

I think it is entirely possible that the bourgeoisie may usher in communism for the bourgeoisie and then kill most of the proles. This would be bad.

I think the quickest and least painful path to socialism involves revolutionary struggle. I am opposed to a long and cruel path to socialism.

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>>2838351
>the bourgeoisie may usher in communism for the bourgeoisie and then kill most of the proles. This would be bad.
I've heard this one before and I'm not convinced. It's based on the fantasy that they will just have AI robot slaves that are somehow more energy efficient than humans, who will always do what they're told, always have context sensitivity, never disobey, and are able to do everything from washing dishes to picking crops, to cleaning toilets. I just don't buy it.

>>2838351
>I think the quickest and least painful path to socialism involves revolutionary struggle. I am opposed to a long and cruel path to socialism.
True and yet everyone wants to be the next Lenin and not the next red army conscript bleeding out in a trench



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Why are so many modern communists obsessed with liberal concept of indigenous rights? When communists dont believe in land ownership or inheritance.

>Body too short

>Body too short
11 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2838877
How come the feds understand communism better than you do?

Because they are liberal LARPers

because the westerns "leftists" have been co opted by IDpol

>>2838925
meds now

may I see these modern communists obsessed with indigenous shit?, I don't know any parties or public figures doing what OP is describing but maybe I just live under a rock. internet bullshit doesn't count



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Jewish people are an ethno-religious group that have largely been ostracized from Christian/muslim society because they were here first. It’s created, beyond just a religion, a form of ethnic identity. This board believes in decolonization, and in the principle that children should not be judged for their identities and the identities of their parents. That should extend fully to Jews as well and it’s far and away the biggest issue I have with this “leftist” group that many of you want to exclude such a large population of historically marginalized people. Some of the best leftists from Marx and Luxembourg to Goldman and Bookchin, Jewish individuals have written much of the theory we practice today.

We can, and should, be antizionist, but antizionism ≠ antisemitism. The most bigoted thing you can do towards a Jew is to assume they are spoken for by a genocidal apartheid regime, and to unionize your fight for antizionism with the rights fight for antisemitism. Don’t get the two confused and don’t be a schmuck.
53 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2836528
Humans

After Hitler's death a new version of Mein Kampf was released with thousands of footnotes calling out his bullshit, and all sales of the book were donated to Jewish families. What nobody talks about tho, is that in the 60s Jewish bankers and politicians ended the deal to incentivize Israelis to continue stealing from Palestinians amid the wave of decolonization and racial equality sweeping the west

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>>2836531
The jewish continuous genealogy stories are myths, and jews are made up of converts from the areas they lived.
Thank you, god bless.

>>2834367
Giga Based

>>2838875
Just like Kars 4 Kids but with Hitler!



 

129 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2837742
He said "white" genocide.

>>2837716
If they are doing for profit, they are only going to amplify what's already popular.

>>2837820
I mean kinda but not really, it's a lot easier to generate shock outrage content than actually thoughtful stuff, it leads to a general degeneration of the mindset of the viewer towards reactionism.

>>2837776
only applies to ruthenians

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>>2838726
I always knew Ukrainians were Black.



 

Genel Türkiye siyaseti ile ilgili konuşun!

Li ser siyaseta giştî ya Tirkiyê biaxive!

Şıma qısey bıkı Poliya Turika!

Yurtişi siyaseti p'ara yoxaleps!

تحدثوا عن السياسة العامة في تركيا!
39 posts and 12 image replies omitted.

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Members of ESP and SGDF were detained.
As part of an investigation launched by the Diyarbakır Chief Public Prosecutor's Office, five members of the Socialist Party of the Oppressed (ESP) and the Federation of Socialist Youth Associations (SGDF) were taken into custody.

Those detained in different cities are: Fethiye Ok, Soner Çiçek, Bensu Özkan, Poyraz Aksu, and Rümeysa Batıran.

In a statement released via social media, ESP stated, “The political crackdown against revolutionary socialists continues. Revolutionary socialist struggle is not a crime. Long live our organized struggle! This blockade will be lifted, freedom will prevail!”
https://anfenglishmobile.com/guncel/amed-de-5-esp-ve-sgdf-li-gozaltina-alindi-229780

>>2838056
This happens very often unfortunately. ESP and ESP members are constantly getting raided, arrested, followed around and harrassed by undercover pigs, etc.

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>>2802838
iskender kebap

>>2802838
Doner. Perhaps the greatest invention of turks.

>>2802838
Raki (I’m an alcoholic)



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In this thread we list crimes the USA has committed against Cuba to debunk the myth the USA wants to “free” Cuba

>On the 20th of april 1898 the United States intervenes in the Cuban war of independence against Spain supposedly on the Cuban rebel’s side but later betrays them on the 1st of January 1899 replacing Spain as Cuban imperial overlord and installing a military government in Cuba led by U.S. army general John R. Brooke.

>>2837884
Because you touch yourself at night

Huh

The Mob and other American organized crime groups had a huge presence in Cuba before the revolution. Cuba was a massive hub of gambling and drug and human trafficking under gangsters like Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano. Said gangsters were heavily involved in US intelligence backed anti-communist terror networks that tried to undermine Cuban socialism.

>>2837810
On on the 20th of May 1902 Cuba gained
Faux “independence” from the United States with a constitution that was accepted by the USA on the condition it was amended to include giving the united states the right to invade Cuba if it felt the Cuban government was jeopardising “freedom”, a limitation of the amount of public debt the Cuban government could have, letting the U.S. keep Guantanamo, Cuba required U.S. permission to entire into relations with other countries.

>>2837810

>>2838682
America used their right to invade Cuba to occupy it for a 2nd time from September 1906 to February 1907, to crush an Afro Cuban uprising in 1912, and to occupy it a 3rd time from August 25th 1917 to February 15th 1922



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  1. How would anarchists respond to the criticism that, over 150 years of organized anarchist thought (from Bakunin and the International in 1866 onward, or even Stirner before that), their analysis of exploitation has remained largely vague and general?
  2. How do anarchists explain the origins and development of exploitation? And how would they account for the evolution of society without relying on concepts like class struggle and the dictatorship of the proletariat as scientific tools?
  3. Are anarchists generally committed to social ownership of the means of production, or do they tend to favor small-scale production and some forms of private ownership? How would they address the claim that anarchism is just bourgeois individualism turned on its head?
  4. How do anarchists propose to organize and educate workers for class struggle while refusing participation in bourgeois political institutions? How would they avoid offering what critics call one‑sided, disconnected fixes, especially when global coordination seems necessary and anarchism’s individualist tendencies may undermine it?
  5. How would anarchists respond to the observation that anarchism lacks a unified doctrine, elementary revolutionary teaching, or basic theory? How do they view the historical fragmentation of the workers’ movement often attributed to anarchist influence, and what can be learned from the short‑lived anarchist “state‑like” experiments?
  6. How would anarchists avoid the charge that rejecting bourgeois politics in practice ends up subordinating the working class to bourgeois politics—all under the guise of being “above” or “outside” traditional political action?
40 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2831936

>It is vague. How does this exploitation occur? What are its characteristics? What makes someone a worker and what makes someone a boss?


A worker is someone who must sell their labor to survive because they don't own productive resources. A boss is someone who owns productive resources and therefore can extract surplus from those who do the work. Exploitation occurs through this structural relationship not through individual bad behavior but through the wage relation itself. It's the same basic analysis as Marx. The anarchist addition is that the state isn't just a tool of this class relation but co produces it. For example, enclosure, legal enforcement of property, suppression of horizontal institutions are all state functions that make capitalism possible.

>What else is anarchism based on if not scientific methods?


Materialist analysis of power structures rather than a teleological stage theory. The disagreement with Marxism isn't about method, it's about whether history has a predetermined destination requiring a transitional state to get there.

>Are anarchists for or against small production, large scale industry?


Social anarchists favor collective ownership and management of large scale industry through worker councils and federations. Not small production as a romantic ideal, not state ownership, but direct worker administration.

Yellow unions? All unions? Every social movement? What is "popular education"?
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

I attended the first smack a white boy event, where we disrupted the crimethinc anarchist confrence in our neighborhoods which were facing gentrification, ask me anything.

>>2838506
>Materialist analysis of power structures rather than a teleological stage theory. The disagreement with Marxism isn't about method, it's about whether history has a predetermined destination requiring a transitional state to get there.
Are you the same anon spamming the board about Marxist teleology?


>>2838561
No though I've only posted in the other anarchist thread to show the social anarchist perspective



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I'm not sure I'm going all-in on the tankie kool-aid, but if there's anything I can respect about this man, it's how quickly and decisively he handled business when he found out his brother was snitching on him to the CIA. If everyone in the world had this sort of attitude when it came to American feds, we wouldn't have any problems at all.

Kim is the only man to make Xi stutter and trip on his own shoes

Rumors has it Kim, during his off the record visit to China at the height of 2010s DPRK-China tensions, took Xi to an otherwise empty parking lot in which they had escorted Xi to park his car. When Kim and the Workers Party of Korea went with him back to the parking lot they surprised Xi with the introduction to the DPRK's first working nuclear missile. It was held by a crane 50 meters in the air, centered above Xi's car. Slowly but surely it was lowered, and the closer it got the sheer size of it was demonstrated. "P-Please! Stop! Stop that!" Xi exclaimed, but to no avail. Uninterrupted in its secure descent the nuclear warhead arrived at the roof and effortlessly smushing his car flat, before it stopped. Xi was at a loss of words, before falling to his knees. He uttered "I apologize", in Korean.

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>>2838287
When all the leaders go to pay deference to the Workers Party of Korea they also make the leaders do some labour, which is considerate of them.

>>2838294
screencap this gem



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