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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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We haven't had this thread in a while so I'm bringing it back. >>>/leftypol/2851498 says mods will remove it so I am proving it wrong.

The Zionist Entity is a genocidal settler-colonial apartheid state set up by the European and North American powers to colonize the middle east. Even early zionists like Theodor Herzl understood Israel in these explicitly settler-colonial terms. Here is Herzl speaking in the 1800s, when Palestine was still Ottoman territory:

>If His Majesty the Sultan were to give us Palestine, we could offer to resolve Turkey’s finances. For Europe, we would form part of a bulwark against Asia there, we would serve as the advance post of civilisation against barbarism.

So Theodor Herzel felt not only that European people were entitled to Palestine over the people already living there (including Ottoman Jews), but that the presence of "civilized" Europeans in Israel would form a "bulwark" (forward operating base(offensive, not defensive)) against Asia, which entire continent Herzl racistly characterized as "barbaric."

Herzl was born on May 2nd , 1860 in Budapest, Hungary to a family of German speaking assimilated Jews. His father, Jakob, was a wealthy businessman and the young Theodor was expected to enter politics or engineering by his parents. In a sense, he did not disappoint, as Herzl was destined to become the father of political Zionism. While Herzl never saw his Jewish state during his lifetime, his ideology remains so influential that even today he is considered the father of Israel.

Herzl’s birthday is a holiday in Israel, his grave is a national monument, the organization he founded is still active today and the largest mountain in the country was re-named in his honor. It is not an exaggeration to say that Herzl and his ideology remain central to Zionism.

As a young man, Herzl was a fanatic Germanophile. He believed that if Jews simply tried hard enough, they could become “Germanized” and shake off what he called “shameful Jewish characteristics.” Herzl viewed German culture and language as inherently superior to that of the reviled working-class Yiddish speaking Jews. At first, he believed that Jews should be Germanized, arguing that Eastern European Jews were so "savage" and backwards that they must learn the very concepts of beauty and nobility by studying the works of authors like Goethe and Shakespeare. He initially envisionPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
18 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2852162
Most of those were by his command who were also nazis

File: 1782631008041-1.png (116.53 KB, 716x232, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2852780
disease and infighting historically produces more death than actually fighting the enemy. just look at the crusades for example.

>>2852836
Also killing civilians without weapons > actually risking dying

>>2852162
Ok anon, you first.

File: 1782680852264-1-0.png (1.47 MB, 960x1280, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1782680852264-6-1.png (289.81 KB, 392x510, ClipboardImage.png)

>The Israeli government has equipped Israeli settlers in the West Bank with drones, which are being used to harass and attack Palestinians.

>Israeli settler terrorism is not the work of a few extremists. It is state-backed terrorism.

>Get to kill Palestinians all day from the comfort of your living room.

These guys are living the Zionist dream.


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In defense of the free market.

When we deal with matters of the economy, it’s important to stay grounded in very real world terms and not fall for the abstractions the wealthy propagandize people with. These are systems of metabolizing the labor of everyone in society and then proportioning goods accordingly. Everyday there is work that has to get done to maintain civilization, and “the economy” describes how we incentivize (or more crudely, reward) doing that work. The control and production of everything takes labor, and the biggest issues with society stem from our considering property or ownership of stock as a means of financial gain in of itself over labor. In a preferable society with equal access to education and healthcare and equal rights for all, those capable of doing work should still be made to. There simply is no society without that economic work incentive, and ours is now being destroyed because the incentive is switching to trading stocks and speculating on others businesses instead of putting effort in to produce or maintain anything. I think these best ways to distribute these goods is for a wage system that distributes a currency exchangeable for goods and services at a market rate. Its a fundamentally democratizing force that should be regulated and limited in certain aspects, but that should not be abolished in favor of anything else, as the rich are trying to do now. I support some economic inequality enough to maintain a petit bourgeoisie, I would even say I’m against a UBI.

The reason i don’t identify as a communist is because I see them as abandoning this distributive system in favor of a more hierarchical approach. In a world without currency, you would either have to rigidly control distribution or provide a civilization so materially liberal I don’t think human beings could uncorruptibly function without abusing the systems of social benefit to an unsustainable degree. This is a monopoly of the state and even a state that is democratically controlled should not wield such power in my opinion.
The difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism doesn’t just have a free market, but as our current neoliberal system extols, has businesses controlled by centralized power and authority rested in bourgeois, old money families. These people are given the reigns of power over their own little fiefdoms, given essentially no oversight or real threat of punishment, and even those that work their way inPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
71 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2846206
>thats the samefag replying to himself.
I forgot the quote arrow for the second sentence.
>a discussion cannot take place if your own position is still shifting every week.
Gee why is "his" opinion shifting so much, whaddayathink? And he is so productive, making so many posts!

I'm of the position that a price system is not absolutely necessary to run an economy; and that if you use prices, there is something to be said for using prices not modified because of discrepancies between supply and demand or using these unmodified prices for longer planning horizons alongside modified prices for the short term. (That's not to say that these unmodified prices stay fixed forever: They can change when production technique changes.) Either approach requires a powerful center that makes some very big decisions unilaterally. So take a guess whether I'm a shill for capitalism.

>>2846649
the failure and success of western communist parties has quite a lot to do with central planning: central planning requires a center by definition. if you pick any of these random failures and have them fluke their way into power, you will have an incompetent center. more generally, central planning puts a lot of weight on having a competent center. the primary appeal of a market economy, looking at so much uncorrected failure, is that it has mechanisms for clearing out failure. when seers CEO gets some bizarre notions about how to run a firm, seers goes bankrupt and dies and other more competent retail outlets eat their lunch. (even if those firms are also incompetent, they just have to be less incompetent!)

more generally, the fundamental problem i see in the world today is institutional incompetence. the british government can't build railways, the US government can't build HSR, and yet you envision a world where we can shake our magic wand once for revolution and twice for total overhaul of the economy, get some linear programmers in, and just like that all will be fixed. pray, mr. babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures…?

i am not an advocate in the free market in the sense of being a deep enthusiast for it with an intuitive love of it. i am an advocate in the sense of a devil's advocate, in the sense that i think the standard marxist arguments do not hold up well to conditions on the ground and are not in any case well understood by the average marxist (who instead intuits, in a woolly sense, that Marx's bible must agree with him and that a cleverer person will sort it all out), i am of the view that at the very least we've got to reach the same conclusion as china, that productive forces are insufficiently developed to allow a leap to communism and therefore we're stuck with markets in the short run. if ideal central planning can outperform the market, sub-ideal central planning can easily underperform it. (we can point here to the soviet example. even if you want to go "ah, actually, it was beating the market in 1930!", the very fact one bumbling idiot could come in and have the entire economy cannibalise itself by 1989 speaks to the enormous risks of an incompetent center)

you will be quite correct to say i've dodged your questions, and iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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>>2846824
>tldr: my intuition said so, so i have to make a thread about it
no you didn't lol. this is also some of the funniest shit i read:
>the failure and success of western communist parties has quite a lot to do with central planning: central planning requires a center by definition. if you pick any of these random failures and have them fluke their way into power, you will have an incompetent center. more generally, central planning puts a lot of weight on having a competent center. the primary appeal of a market economy, looking at so much uncorrected failure, is that it has mechanisms for clearing out failure. when seers CEO gets some bizarre notions about how to run a firm, seers goes bankrupt and dies and other more competent retail outlets eat their lunch. (even if those firms are also incompetent, they just have to be less incompetent!)
<central planning is called central planning because center duh
do you have an phd in bullshitenomics? the term you are looking for is called creative destruction and as a matter of fact: all these things you talk about have already been said by someone smarter than you, literally NONE of your ideas are original. you are debating with yourself lol

>>2847096
Why have you included some stupid bullshit about famines in reply to someone who has stuck exclusively and monotonously to economic questions?

>>2847096
  1. i did not make this thread
  2. i am not looking for creative destruction, although that is one facet of the evolutionary nature of markets. the airline industry in the us, for example, has been quite resistant to creative destruction (most carriers die via mergers rather than ceasing to exist, and most legacy airlines today have gone bankrupt several times but chapter-11'd their way back instead of being "creatively destroyed") yet they still evolved this fascinating business model.
  3. i make no claims to originality.

>image
image 2 is completely irrelevant and based on the assumption i'm someone i'm not (were this a thread about soviet or chinese famines, i'd be on the "and how many famines afterwards?" side of the argument.
as for image 1: it seems quite confused. the 1930s have almost nothing to teach us, the 1970s just have lol-wrong numbers. (us real gdp growth 1970 > 1979 averaged 3%, more than the 2.5% it could supposedly "only dream about" in that decade.) "how many brazillians have been to space?" is an odd rhetorical question when the answer isn't "zero", as it is for most countries.

i will engage mainly with the question of the asian tigers, because (aside from the obvious point that their planning was far less expansive than that of the USSR) one obvious part is missing in the defence of planning: as export oriented economies they were still exposed to market discipline. general park mandated that companies export cars, but crucially, to avoid losing money they had to learn to export good cars cheaply, because park could not mandate that american consumers buy korean cars. this is in contrast to other cases like india where getting the central planners to designate you a car manufacturer was a licence to print money because you had a captive domestic market that you could force to buy third-rate british designs from 1950 in the year 1980 because they had no other choice.

more generally: planning in a poor country is a good way to administer things while breaking up old social bonds that form a barrier to setting up a modern society. this is a big reason that china is rich and india isn't - mao successfully abolished the "idiocy of rural life" and created a populace ideally suited to working in modern conditions, while indiaPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


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Argentina cabinet chief resigns after corruption allegations
Adorni ⁠has been accused of illicit enrichment due to expenses that do not appear to ​match his income. He has received criticism for a number of personal trips he has taken ​with his family, including a first-class holiday to Aruba over the Christmas period, and a private jet flight to Uruguay during Carnival season. Adorni has said that he built his wealth before entering government and that ​all trips he has taken with his family were paid for with private funds.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-cabinet-chief-resigns-after-corruption-allegations-2026-06-27/

Colombia’s right pushes ‘gunpoint vote’ narrative, data contradict it
Even before the preliminary vote count from the first round on May 31 had been completed, a table began circulating on social media showing results in municipalities with extreme risk from armed groups, linking them to Cepeda, the candidate from the Historic Pact coalition. Influencers backing De la Espriella claimed that Cepeda was winning precisely in areas where guerrilla presence was strongest.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2026-06-26/colombias-right-pushes-gunpoint-vote-narrative-data-contradict-it.html
https://archive.ph/62gQz

Lebanon-Israel deal may stop war crime victims seeking justice, experts say
Article 13 of the deal says Israel and Lebanon will “cease all hostile or negative actions in international political or legal forums” to establish good faith between the two sides. The text, which is broadly phrased, could prevent victims of Israeli war crimes allegedly committed during fighting since 8 October 2023 from seeking justice through international or national courts.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jun/27/lebanon-israel-deal-alleged-war-crime-victims-justice-iccPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Donald Trump nominates ex-state trooper Lance Schroyer as ICE director
United States President Donald Trump has nominated a former Oklahoma state trooper to serve as the director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), one of the primary agencies charged with carrying out his mass deportation campaign. On Saturday, Trump revealed Lance Schroyer as his pick, praising his 29 years of law enforcement experience, as well as his service as a US Marine.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/6/27/donald-trump-nominates-lance-schroyer-to-serve-as-ice-director
https://archive.ph/HBjMJ

Appeals court rejects Trump EPA bid to abandon rule restricting deadly soot pollution
The unanimous ruling by a three-judge panel is a setback for the Trump administration’s deregulatory agenda and its repeated efforts to boost coal, a reliable but polluting energy source. The decision by the US court of appeals for the District of Columbia circuit leaves intact, for now, a tighter standard set in 2024 on pollution from coal-fired power plants, factories and other industrial sources.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jun/27/trump-epa-court-ruling-soot-pollution

Trump administration asks US Supreme Court to endorse immigration detention policy
The administration made that request in a filing, made public on Friday, asking the Supreme Court to overturn a May decision by a federal appeals court, which had rejected its ​reinterpretation of a decades-old immigration law that now underlies its mass detention policy.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trump-administration-asks-us-supreme-court-endorse-immigration-detention-policy-2026-06-26/

Leon Black accused of stonewalling Congress as Epstein hearing ends abruptly
Speaking to reporters outside the room, Comer said that “the Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Peace Abroad, War Next Door: Pakistani Airstrikes Devastate Afghan Civilians
In the village of Mana, located in Afghanistan’s Khost province, close to the Pakistani border, men who normally pass their days farming instead spent the morning of June 10 digging fresh graves for their murdered relatives and neighbors. The night before, shortly after midnight, Pakistani drones and fighter jets flattened the neighboring homes of two brothers, Siraj and Babri. Nine members of a single family were killed, most of them women and children. The two brothers’ homes stood beside one another in Mana. Neighbors worked through the night dragging the dead and the wounded out of the debris. Across the two households, ten more people were wounded, several of them in critical condition. The survivors were rushed first to a small district hospital, before being transferred to the largest provincial hospital in Khost. A doctor at the hospital, who asked not to be named because medical staff have been warned against speaking to journalists, told Drop Site that 11 bodies were brought in after the strike, including women, children, and men—every one of them a civilian. Among the wounded survivors were three children.
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/peace-abroad-war-next-door-pakistani

Trotsky, 1905 and the Permanent Revolution
The theory of the ‘permanent revolution’, developed by Leon Trotsky in the 20th century, remains one of the most important and misunderstood ideas in all of Marxism. In this article, Joe Attard delves into the origins of Trotsky’s ideas, and how they were shaped by the events of the 1905 Revolution in Russia. The Russian Revolution of 1905 went off like a bombshell, blowing apart all scepticism about the fighting potential of the Russian masses toiling under the heel of tsarist absolutism. While the workers were ultimately crushed after a year of open combat with tsarism, they laid the foundations for even greater battles to come. Leon Trotsky was virtually alone in understanding the real significance of 1905, which catalysed ideas he had already been developing into his greatest theoretical contribution: the permanent revolution. There is a dialectical relationship between individuals, ideas and events. Lev Davidovich Bronstein (the birthname of ‘Leon Trotsky’) enPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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>Article 13 of the deal says Israel and Lebanon will “cease all hostile or negative actions in international political or legal forums” to establish good faith between the two sides. The text, which is broadly phrased, could prevent victims of Israeli war crimes allegedly committed during fighting since 8 October 2023 from seeking justice through international or national courts.
OOOOOOOOOOOOF

Trusted ther national bourugeois award.


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What's up with FARC? I don't see much discussion of them in leftist circles despite being a communist ML group? Are/were they just drug traffickers and gangsters, or a real political movement?

IIRC FARC, ELN, EPA, and M19 never manufactured or distributed cocaine themselves, they protected cocoa leaf growing peasants and taxed the trade happening in areas they operated in. The Colombian economy is so awful for its rural poor that cocoa is essentially the only crop you can grow and make a living in. It was the right wing paramilitaries like Gulf Clan who were actually making the cocaine out of the leaves and sending it to Trinidad where it would find its way to the US.

>>2852975
They demobilized. The peace process however was a farce, so many, being targets disarmed in the government camps, folded into ELN, FARC-EP, and various drug gang. Leads to some schizophrenia, coppied from one FARC-EP group turned drug gang:
<The criminal organisation describes itself as ideologically centrist and makes it clear that it does not subscribe to left-wing or right-wing doctrines, adding that “Marxist or fascist theories are not accepted within our organisation”. It also states that it accepts “all types of fighters, regardless of their background or combat experience”, provided they are not “enemies of the state”
A big part of the offensives we've been seeing by the ELN are apparently because of this influx of manpower and so on.
This could have gone into /QTDDTOT/ to be fair.

>>2852975
>Are/were they just drug traffickers and gangsters, or a real political movement?
both to different degrees at different points subject to internal and external influences


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I rarely hear arguments against objectivism that manage to invalidate Ayn Rand's argument for capitalism. Her argument is often considered to be the following, assuming a simplified syllogistic format :

>1. Survival requires reason : Man survives by using his rational mind, not instinct or force.

>2. Reason requires freedom : A mind can only function if left free to think and act on its own judgment; force or coercion can't make someone think.

>3. Capitalism is the only system that bans coercion between individuals and protects property rights, allowing each person to act on their own judgment.

>4. Therefore, capitalism is the only moral/practical social system : it's the only one consistent with the requirements of human survival and rationality.

The idea behind her argument is that living is to value human life, and that capitalism is rationally the correct system that upholds men's self-determination of values and hence of life given that it prevents force being used upon them. Capitalism is what follows from her objectivist ethics : ethical egoism.

I've yet to see any actual counter-arguments done against her pro-capitalist stance that are valid.
40 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2853308
>Ayn Rand justified the Native American genocide on the terms that the colonisers were "more advanced"

So did Locke and Marx and the fascists and pretty much everyone. The only people who don't are landback radlibs and anprims.

>>2853311
Do you think the West sponsoring the ethnic cleaning of Palestine is justified? What is the real, true difference in the scheme of civilisation?

>>2853311
>so did Marx
provide evidence

>>2853308
>Man is trained to obey, not to think
>The poorest people in the world are the least rational
Do you really want me to comment on these ?

>Is rational selfishness just a broad hammer of "might makes right"?
On the contrary, it's the opposite. If you recognize your own self-values, you recognize the necessity in guaranteed freedom.

>A dependent person or an independent person
They're both free aslong as they're not coerced

>Who owns ideas?
Yeah I agree on you her belief in intellectual property is a bit stupid

>is this a sign of more or less freedom?
I'd suggest that you look up the definition of freedom for objectivists

>>2853386
>Do you really want me to comment on these ?
Look around. The dumbest and poorest people will always have more kids than the smartest people. Reason negates survival. Ayn Rand herself was childless, which contradicts the objectivist view of femininity according to a particular nature and duty to have children.
>the necessity in guaranteed freedom.
What guarantees freedom?
>They're both free
It's not about the quality of freedom, but its degree.
Who is *more* free or not? You fail to grasp this concept.


File: 1782607853212-4.png (17.16 KB, 564x714, 0ea.png)

 

I'm really fucking gay and I like men but I don't see how a cavalry of transfem transbians would ever be a possible thing, if everyone could just unleash the barbaric animal inside of them it would be super amazing because I want these subhuman money laundering zionist flesh eating bastards to have their corpses eviscerated till their eyeballs are coagulated and they lay pudged up in blood, cum and fecal matter until they are indistinguishable to a pile of negroplasm which is then grinded up and fed to a rhinoceros and birthed from it's infected urinatus.

Ted Kaczynski meets Jeffrey Dahmer.

The war is won by boymoders.

Total boymoder victory.

This has absolutely nothing to do with this board

>>>/siberia/

SNCA

Moved to >>>/siberia/800312.


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It work pretty well for a bit in Catalonia, but I'm not really sure the means of revolution adapted to the conditions of 1920s Spain would really translate all that well to modern day America.
15 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2852706
> syndicates can easily cause economic stagnation through entrenched ludditism
I already like syndicalism, you don't need to sell it for me

I don’t see any problems with it other than the fact that it is uncompetitive. Any state can defeat anarchists even using elephants and uyghurs with spears. Anarchism is powerless against external threats.

>>2852706
Have they ever effectively be the base of any revolutionary movement, not just in theory? I always felt unions were about negotiating a better deal not to overthrow anything.
They tend to make the business worse due to endemic corruption and also not bring anything close to communism, not even real social democracy since they were always downstream from powerful state capacity and not some decentralized salary bargaining.

>>2852858
They can be, unions can strike for reform such as higher wages and better conditions but the logical conclusion of all that is the abolishing of the wage system altogether so it really depends on the level of class consciousness that they have and the material conditions that would be auspicious for such a demand to become a real potential.

>>2852806
Exactly, non state socialism is essentially anti-competitive so lacks the coercive slave driving to prod the proletariat above and beyond their capacity. Which is why it cannot exist within the international community which the bourgeoisie would just see as a vacuum to capitalise on. Once the productive forces have built up and reached an equalibrium on a global scale and there are no more countries to imperialise, the bourgeoisie will be backed into a corner since they would no longer be able to buy out through reform since they cannot export or import labour to poorer nations and will be at the mercy of the demands of the proletariat


File: 1769393923315.webp (50.02 KB, 400x400, kangaroo-star.webp)

 

Australian and Oceania politics general thread. 'EDIT'"Previous thread: >>2371516"

Link dump:
https://www.greenleft.org.au [good events page]
https://www.auscp.org.au/militant-monthly
https://solidarity.net.au
https://redflag.org.au
https://marxistleftreview.org/?topic=australia
https://www.michaelwest.com.au
https://partisanmagazine.org/about/
https://overland.org.au
https://arena.org.au
https://www.themonthly.com.au
https://www.crikey.com.au
https://www.redblacknotes.com
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
105 posts and 59 image replies omitted.

How do you wake up every morning knowing you're Australian not immediately kill yourself?


>>2829498
Why is the only thing Australian leftists are capable of effectively doing at all attacking anyone who opposes the mass importation of cheap labour for capitalists?

>>2851799
self-hating anglos

>>2826164
Organize immigrant workers. Agitate for better conditions and make them harder to exploit by porkies. Don't fall for the strasserist psyop and cuck out to "anti mass migration" rightoids who will only make them into an easy scapegoat to be isolated from the wider struggle.


File: 1782604430657-7.png (199.95 KB, 1023x1540, Screenshot_20260627-165006.png)

 

I cope with globalization's destruction of the labor movement by pretending that we have reached the global Lewis turning point. There's just not that big of s global latent reserve army anymore. The capitalists will still be evil but now they will have to explicitly use force or develop technology more in order to exploit us.

>>2852675
Yes I would say this is cope, there's still billions of unemployed people around the world and employment will probably continue to go down as AI replaces more jobs and quality of life just declines generally (in the west anyway)

>>2852675
They will implant a brain computer interface on your dura mater that flashes your mind's eye with brazzers and mcdonalds adverts when an algorithm determines you're looking off into space or not being productive enough. if the wifi drops out there's a small but non negligible risk you'll have a seizure

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>>2852765
stop giving them ideas


File: 1782612753200-4-0.jpg (39.67 KB, 250x348, Israel_Epstein_01.jpg)

File: 1782612753200-7-1.jpeg (29.2 KB, 478x641, images (97).jpeg)

 

>Israel Epstein (1915–2005) was a Polish-born journalist who spent most of his life in China and became a Chinese citizen. He was one of the few foreign-born members of the Chinese Communist Party.

>He was born in Warsaw to Jewish parents and moved to China as a young child after his family fled instability in Europe. He grew up in Tianjin and began working as a journalist at an early age, later reporting on major events such as the Chinese resistance against Japan.

>During World War II, he was detained by Japanese forces but later escaped. Years later, during the Cultural Revolution, he was imprisoned again on political accusations, though he was eventually released and rehabilitated.

>Throughout his career, he wrote extensively about China, helping communicate its political and social developments to an international audience. He remained closely connected to the Chinese government and was honored by several national leaders.

>He died in Beijing in 2005 and was buried in a cemetery reserved for notable revolutionary figures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Epstein


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