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This thread is for the discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators sorted by last name

>Paul Cockshott

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Thread archived and migrated:
https://nukechan.net/social/thread/1438.html

<INDEP online Talk with Leone – On Defining and Measuring Human Needs with Democratic Planning
>This is a recording of our online event with Leone on Defining and Measuring Human Needs with Democratic Planning, which was held on June 9th 2026.
>You can find the description below:
>Meeting social needs with democratic planning requires that we learn how to see and define those needs, and that we institutionalize such learning processes in postcapitalist governance. In this presentation, Leone explores some meditations on the politics of measurements and their role in planning processes in a postcapitalist world, with a focus on democratic investment planning. The essay upon which this presentation is based seeks to articulate some of the core political problems around measurements which we must design real-world interventions to solve. He invites scrutiny and feedback on his current essay draft, which can be found on the discord server of the Econophysics community: https://fbi.gov/invite/9jZYkRYYWA
>INDEP - The International Network for Democratic Economic Planning
our website: https://www.indep.network/
>We are an international network of workers, students, researchers, and activists, who share the common goal of advancing a post-capitalist economic system based on democratic economic planning.
>You can join INDEP as a member (as individual or as organization), subscribe to our newsletter, share news and events from the world of democratic economic planning. If you are interested in organizing an event with INDEP yourself or want to get involved otherwise feel free to reach out to us via [email protected].

>>2839910
>wordfilter changed discord link to fbi.gov
lel

Brandon Lee responding to the Jacglowbin article on planning

>>2841343
thanks



 

Let's rehearse the facts:
>The US bombed Cambodia harder than they did in Nazi Germany and Japan
>The majority of the urban population were refugees from the countryside when the cities were emptied.
>Life expectancy dropped to its lowest point in 1975, before the Khmer Rouge took over. Afterwards, it began increasing.
>The Khmer Rouge successfully did all they could do prevent famine.
>The Khmer Rouge was not peasantist/primitivist. There was investment in light industry, healthcare and education.
>Thousands were killed in the Vietnamese invasion. More refugees fled per year from the puppet regime than from the Democratic Kampuchea.
>The central government ordered a stop to all killings on several occasions.
>The CIA only supported the Khmer Rouge after Vietnam took over to fuck with the USSR. The same CIA that bombed the country to rubble

Am I saying the KR was good? No. But blindly believing in propaganda is stupid.
19 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

Don't forget China also raped Vietnam

>>2840751
>the "China is actually to blame" cope, which is likely since I saw some "Deng's coup" shit in there while skimming it

File: 1781548161379.webp (21.52 KB, 648x439, le duan.webp)


>>2840751
It's actually an analysis by Ben Kiernan I believe. He was a scholar of the region. So he should his stuff.

>>2841258
*knows his stuff.



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can we get a thread going about the protests going on in albania right now ? i wanna know more about what's going on as a foreign retard and we seem to have no thread about it despite it going on for about a week at this point.


fuck your stupid limit, faggots
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>>2834210
>The country in the Balkans that hates NATO and doesn't have trouble with their communist past is Serbia.
That's not entirely true, though. Serbia has this nationalist četnik cult, which is pretty reactionary nad anticommunist.

>>2834507
the chetniks worked with the communists you fucking retard

>>2834523
They also worked with the Nazis.

>>2834430
every revolution is a colour revolution



 

Anarkids come out AGAINST accessible high-speed rail system.

Please tell me again how anarchism isn’t simply petit-bourgeois rebellion?

They are calling a project that will greatly increase accessibility and reduce the car and oil monopoly “anti-indigenous” or whatever. How can anyone take these people seriously?
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Landback is just a petty bourgeois demand for land that comes more from those who don't live on any reservations. The pb types try to argue that landback would give the chance for people to start buisnesses as a solution to indigenous poverty.

>>2840302
>>land back for people with darker shade of skin
>>Amazing
>>Land Back for lighter toned skin
>>Reactionary shitlords

the aboslute state of modern leftism

>>2840296
Reform isn't inherently bad in itself. The problem is that liberalism wants to redirect worker power so that it only seeks ever shifting reforms and never achieves socialism. It's just a carrot they dangle in front of people. A carrot they can move closer or pull away at will in order to keep workers in line.
As for the Landback people, once you pull away all the post-colonialist academic talk, they are just nationalists. And if they ever get their way they will just stab communists in the back exactly the same way most nationalist movements did in the 20th century. Fundamentally they only see leftists as useful idiots.

the biggest obsticle for anarchists is not the state but rather the fact that they are just really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really reallyreally really really really really realy lame

>>2839647
Zionazis explicitly say Israel is their holy land and belong to them according to the Torah.



 

Just rediscovered this piece of Ben Garrison worthy drivel. It accordingly needs a Lefty makeover. Can anyone good with video editing help?

I'd suggest that Soviet victory monument as the female voice, include Melenchon and Corbyn as male voices, the rising darkness is a porky lol



 

I’m an anarchist who spent years exploring Islam in my teen years in the early 2010s only to convert to Catholicism in 2018 on the basis Catholicism was the most historically-accurate religion and the only explicitly anarchist faith. It pains me to see how many leftists still believe Islam ought to be the global liberation theology, and that leftists should throw out Western thought (including DiaMat) in favour of Islamic epistemology. So much of Islam begs the question and is not at all what the left should be embracing in terms of a theological worldview.

So as a Catholic anarchist in the tradition of Peter Maurin and Dorothy Day, I have sone questions for Muslims:

  1. Muslims claim the Bible is corrupted. So WHO did the corrupting and WHY was it corrupted? The argument I hear the most often is that Jewish and Catholic priests corrupted the Bible in order to reinforce their hierarchical power, but no one can point to when this happened or how they did it. Also, Jewish priests had no political power at that time and the Church was always counter to the state, so why would they need to “corrupt” Scripture to promote hierarchy?

  2. In the same vein, why does Islam place so much emphasis on the state when Jesus established the Church specifically to abolish the state? Islam demands a worldwide Caliphate with a very stringent political hierarchy. Why would that be needed if Christ’s Church is anti-statist?

  3. Also, the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas, especially on his doctrine of natural rights, is 100% anti-state and anti-hierarchy. Thomism is arguably the backbone of anarchist thought. It even attacks private property. Why does Islam have zero equivalent?

  4. Catholics have historically had the most anarchist results due to Catholic Social Teaching emphasizing the inherit dignity of all people. If Islam is true, why does Islam only result in authoritarianism?


(HOW IS LEFTYPOL THE VOICE OF ISLAM)
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>>2840692
Because this is stuff that if your not an anglophone, takes like two seconds to google. The first female universities were ran by Muslims, Islam prohibited alcohol just like Lenin wanted to for the exact same reasons.

Islam was the first religion to make the men pay dowry to the women instead of vice versa so that they have sufficient income in case of a divorce and can enter the workforce or remarry. Islam was the first religion to outright name racism a sin and not in a convulated good Samaritan story way, in a very blunt the devil was the first racist way and the first man to call the Islamic prayer in mecca was an African man.

>>2840666
Plenty I could spam this thread if I wanted to. First read the epistle to Galatians where Paul admits to beefing with Peter. The scuffle with the Jerusalem church and him being salty about it in acts and Phillipines crying about super apostles ie guys who disliked him.

There's his whole tiff with the Ebionites.

He wasn't even up front about what he was doing, in Acts hes portrayed as straight up lying to Jesus brother James saying no I'm not telling people to abandon the law. Even while abandoning the law he still gets the nazarite vow (no sex no wine shaving your head) prob because the rabbis daughter had rejected him and he needed to play off being an incel as religious.

>>2841725
So you’re okay with stoning women to death for adultery?

>>2841727
None of these things make Islam more anarchist or even leftist than Christianity. Jesus came to abolish the state whereas Muhammad established a state. Jesus never wanted to make His Church a state but a counter institution to the state.

>>2840391
>Islam has been the ideological backbone of multiple revolutions including the Haitian Revolution
What? Proof? Haiti is Catholic and Voodoo, not Muslim.



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The strong Sino-Israeli relationship should bury the illusions that many leftists have about the PRC’s purported socialism. With the transition to apolitical, business-first developmentalism during the Reform and Opening Up, the PRC decisively turned its back on the history of Third World solidarity and the Palestinian cause. The orientalist socialist fantasy and an excessive fixation on the past do not bring us closer to liberation but instead obscures the ongoing forms of collaboration that needs close scrutiny and unambiguous callout.
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>>2839937
Because China is the counter-power to global imperialism. China being close to Israel is proof China doesn't give a shit about colonized peoples.

>>2840686
The colonized people need to get their shit together
China has to help them because they are to fuckin weak to stand up? Fuck that they owe nothing

>>2840699
>>2840676
>>2840642
Yxll we people of yellow are tiiired of yxll yt ppl and yxll westoid demands lowkey

>>2840702
This but unironically

Palestinians should get it through their thick skulls that building apartheid infrastructure, trading resources and sharing dual use tech that facilitates their genocide is good because Chanya has red flag

Privileged ahh idealists don't want to be genocided for the people's capitalists



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guillionaire, n.
Pronunciation: /ˌɡɪljəˈnɛə(ɹ)/, /ˌɡiːjəˈnɛə(ɹ)/
Etymology: A portmanteau formed from guillotine n. + trillionaire n. (after billionaire n., millionaire n.).

Definition
  1. Slang (chiefly derogatory, political).
A hyper-wealthy individual, specifically a trillionaire or multi-billionaire, whose immense wealth is viewed by critics as exploitative, unethical, or a direct symptom of extreme societal inequality. The term is heavily associated with anti-capitalist rhetoric and populist movements advocating for the radical redistribution of wealth.
  1. Historical/Symbolic.
An individual targeted for economic or social ruin (metaphorically "executed") due to their extreme financial status, often referencing the historical use of the guillotine during the French Revolution against the aristocracy.

Quotations
• 2021 Twitter 14 May: "If the wealth gap keeps widening like this, we won't just have billionaires anymore. The age of the guillionaire is coming, and it won't end well for them."
• 2023 Jacobin Style Mag. Oct. 42: "The tech moguls of today have transcended ordinary greed; they are guillionaires building private rockets while the rest of the world burns."
• 2025 Radical Economics Q. III. 115: "Taxing the guillionaire class out of existence is no longer a radical position; it is a baseline requirement for democratic survival."

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>>2840562
Because you like putting unnecessary added labels on communism

>>2840552
>AI powered
Nuclear and renewables are better.

Villain here, have 'em shrillin' in fear
And won't stop top illin' 'til he a gazillionaire

shitlionaire

>>2840473
I vaguely remember when Bezos I think was the 1st to get 100 billion. Time flies. 10 trillionaire when?



 

The replies of thread >>2766805 have been so poor I intended to make a new thread, giving a historical overview of the last few decades of the communist movement.

>What is the difference between:

>Mao Zedong Thought [ML-MZT]
>Maoism-ThirdWorldism [M3W]
<Missing: >Classical Marxism-Leninism-Maoism [classical MLM]. Exemplified by Communist Party of the Philippines and Communist Party of India (Maoist) as key leaders and influences.
>Gonzalo Thought [aka "MLM-pM" and "Gonzaloism"]
>How interrelated are they?

Comrades. don't forget these tools:
<Historical materialism.
<General-Particular-General dialectical spiral in analysis.
<Never capitulate proletarian leadership to reactionary classes.
<Analyze the contradictory relationship of petty-bourgeois ideology to scientific socialism-communism throughout time, which always ends just yesterday.

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theyre all trash ideas anarchism, maoism, jucheism are all just third world simping cults. theyve all synthesized into one idea or movement with one goal destroy the west. just stick to the dsa

>>2767848
Death to the United States*
From the ashes shall emerge a truly pan-American state.

>>2828287
>You completely miss the forest for the trees. That is only true from a narrow and partial aspect of what's at play here. It's forgetting Stalin's simultaneous perspective that class struggle were to be "over" after the liquidation of the kulaks and some cloistered intraparty purges, isolated from the wider populace. These political mistakes blahblahblah The entire point is for these collective farms to be temporary and then made state-run with time as the state matured and became capable.
That is exactly Stalin's position? The farms aren't yet properly integrated into the plan. There is still buying and selling between the farms and the state and so labor values continue to regulate things behind peoples' backs to some extent.

>>2790329
like as in occupy wall street?

>>2777121
Thanks for pointing it out.
He ended the perior unpopular as Boluarte in recent times but alive. Check video.
Only putting Mlm as THE communist movement seems to me the most reductive way to see history in the last decades. Specially since is another boat drowining in a sea of nothingness (writing this as the Cuban capitulate to the gringos for the X time in the decade and the chinese "sociailism with markets TM" is the only horse winning the race)



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>elon musk was born jun 28 1971 and has been alive roughly 1.73 billion seconds
>elon musk as of may 2026 has a net worth of 788 billion dollars
>elon musk has roughly $455 for every second he has been alive

classcucks will say he "earned" that. lmfao. that every second of his life, his genius brain innovates 455 dollars into his pocket.

can a person really "earn" that much or can they only get lucky and maybe also position themselves properly in a fundamentally exploitative system? some of you will no doubt answer that he "earned" it for the sake of provocative contrarianism
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>>2813948
The anarchy of production is a problem of rent, not profit. It's completely solvable within the capitalist framework, just nationalize department 2 (articles of consumption).

>>2838099
doing even cursory research into Mossmorran would tell you that it was built in such a way that it directly pumped ethane to a processing plant owned by a different firm but as part of a single integrated system. with that plant closed, it was not physically possible to send the resulting surplus ethane elsewhere. the physical problem was not that it couldn't "sell" gas to a "customer", but that it could not process gas into the kind of form that could be given away. the customer in question was the processor!
(the processor subsequently closed and the plant was hooked up to the UK's national gas grid, so now you could give it away)

>>2840108
i didn't see the thread was bumped.

>>2840383
>doing even cursory research shows that the bourgeoisie is correct to overproduce without planning and then destroy the commodity

>>2840383
there weren't other processors they could give it away to?

>>2840448
ethane is only one of many commodities that comes from the gas fields. if you want the other stuff, you have to get ethane as well. they burned ethane to keep the production process for everything else going. (you could think of it like a coal mine producing a lot of non-coal rock, if you like. a coal mine that throws such rubble away instead of selling it isn't "overproducing" rock, it's just getting semi-useful junk as part of the coal mining process)
before mossmorran they used to just flare it at sea!

>>2840449
there were other processors but no means of physically transporting the gas to them in the short-medium term. no pipeline or tanker-filling connects existed, the only output was directly into the nearby processing plant.
(something that makes more sense when you remember ethane is just a byproduct of getting at more valuable stuff)



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