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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1762656[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

>Japan in recession
>UK in recession
>US expected to go into recession this year
>Never really recovered from the last one
>Or the one before
>Or maybe even the one before that

Lovely.
159 posts and 19 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1765111

File: 1708207582925.jpg (1.09 MB, 3642x2521, IMG_E0676.jpg)

>>1765087
I completely agree. The "people's republic of walmart" is no joke. Corporations give character to the socialist idea.
The issue is that corporations in themselves are limited entities that expand faster than they can sustain themselves, because business as a system depends on either competition or loyalty. Where monopoly emerges with corporations or the state there is inefficiency, or what i like to call the "residual economy" of losses, like shoplifting, money laundering, bureaucracy and so on.
In biology we might say that the bigger an organic system becomes the more parasites hang on, which is the inverse function of wealth, where you can become so wealthy that you end up losing your money, like we see today with the west, which is squandering its wealth on the poor of all kinds, because the bigger the pie the more slices available.
Of course this makes sense for the socialist who views Value as a social totality (drawing its basic unit from the economic base) but can wealth distribution today truly be understood as the rich simply giving back stolen wealth? We can imagine a society where this happens; where theres a 100% tax rate and 1:1 measure of value given back to the public. For some reason i dont imagine prosperity, but even worse poverty to workers than before. And why? Because so many dont work, and too, so many are varying in productive capability. Workers may receive the same wages based on labour-power with a minimum wage, but they dont all expend the same labour.
Marx talks about this in the critique of the gotha program; that equality amidst the working class is a political fiction, and it can be best represented by my simple example. Its no surprise that in marx's day there truly was an aristocracy of labour.
But back to corporations - what more can i say? Theyre funded by taxes, they destroy communities, they encourage mindless consumerism (aided by welfare), they're woke, and they always fail in the end.

 No.1765172

>>1765111
The only thing I followed you on was when you said that socialists view the economy as the totality of things but not when you said shit about "imagine a society". I find imagining any society as useless outside of fictional storytelling or worldbuilding. I don't care about imagining any society that doesn't exist as it is such as ours. Now addressing your idea of corporations having bureaucratic inefficiencies comes down to actually libertarian qualities of the economy such as having an HR department when a Union or a Ministry or Department of labor will do. As to your "loyalty" that's abstract nonsense and is some psycho-social shit that is irrelevant inside the workplace. In fact one of the worst redundancies in the workplace was attempting to create a sense of company loyalty which is wasted expenditure. Also corporations run by taxes? No dude, doesn't exist and never existed. Also mindless consumerism? Also nonsense, what any company puts out in the market is meant to be consumed by customers, that's the point of markets and producing things for the market, in a market society, which we have been living in since the 18th century. Consumerism is an anti-modernist post-modernist spook and is extremely contradictory as all post-modernist critiques are meant to be. It devolves into pseudo religious moralizing nonsense. We consume what's put forth in the market as that is what capitalism and the market society is meant to be and is simply achieving it's intended purpose as it always has done. Now that is a fact, none of this pseudo critiquing of consumerism as somehow separate from capitalism. Of any one is to critique consumerism they must also be critiquing the market society, the capitalist society and what their solutions can be very different to what socialists ask for. An infamous not-socialist Ted Kaczinsky for example wanted to return to a de-industrial society where humans work the land is an example of a person who is truly anti-consumerist but of course also reactionary in their solutions because they want to reverse the advantages capitalism(or the industrial revolution in his mind) gave us. A libertarian is a massive walking contradiction because of their critiques yet holding capitalism and the market on a pedestal. I want you to notice that I haven't even talked about economics yet and only philosophy, which I don't like discussiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1765184

>>1765172
Okay i know you dont like hypotheticals
But lets say we got rid of most of the government, do you REALLY think corporations would do… better? Do you really think people would consume MORE since theres "more" of a market?
The classical understanding of economics is based in saving, while the keynesian (contemporary) understanding is based in spending; today we have a reversal of economic concepts.
So the truth is that in a return to classical political conditions the macroeconomy (GDP) would shrink while the "real economy" would grow.
A critique of consumerism is not a critique of capitalism, its a critique of government intervention upholding an unreal economy. Why didnt we have malls and suburbs in the 19th century? Was it just a matter of development or is it something else?
The suburbs began as a post-45 response to creating "affordable housing" where the social engineers created the nest for boomers to grow in and we've lived in that shadow ever since.

 No.1765234

File: 1708219822795.png (179.8 KB, 850x400, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1763122
gold and bitcoin are not remotely comparable, with the former having all the best qualities of storing value

 No.1765257

File: 1708221629552.png (278.69 KB, 888x609, 0_7LNb7XKpR6vAdsBH.png)

>>1765234
The essence of their value is their limited supply
Gold is also physically durable and lightweight (where marx also sees its "universal" character in metal's ability to be uniformally divided), but until theres an EMP, BTC isnt gonna become a corrupted means of exchange, especially as the blockchain suffices (and as long as the internet is politically available).
What works is what is scarce by means of physical extraction (where someone like graeber even gives a criticism of money as an "anonymous" token and prefers a system of qualifying personal value. The anonymity means it can be stolen, while a credit system can offer unique personal worth - of course i would agree in kind, but negatively, where theres such a thing as unique worthlessness too).
Okay but about the basics of currency. There is the old tale of the ancient blockchains which were physical objects, but purely symbolic in their meaning, and so were just "on the books" as a means of keeping tallies of exchange. As societies grow, the means of exchange needs to be more physically related to its members - with computers we are seeing a strange return to prehistoric times with digital money giving license to its own subjective "idea" as against any fallacious notions of the "objective" characteristics of value (as per schiff). But anyway, are you also saying that paper money isnt "real" money either? That would be an amateurish mistake. I recall marx in capital saying that paper money could easily suffice as the universal equivalent since its just a symbol of value, not something endowed with value itself (it is the commodity that orders commodities, or in hegelian terms, the negative mediatior).



 No.1754071[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Sure, it's romantic. The Soviet Flag flying in the Kremlin, the civil war, the industrialization, the Second World War, the defeat of Nazism, Sputnik. The ideology that(in theory) sees past, present and future.

But let's face it, Marxism has failed. It's a dead ideology for a dead age. Their time of experimentation has ended with global failure. Sure you can cope and say "b-but CHINA" but even you know that China is anything but marxist at this point.

While it *claims* to be scientific, it is anything but, if anything, it had it's core beliefs, like historical materialism, disproven by it's own state experiment. Primitive communism doesn't even deserve much explaining given how wholly unproven of a concept it is.

While it is interesting to look at the leftist infighting: Marxists arguing about useless complex abstract concepts that will never be applied since their chance on world history has been defeated and anarchists whining about anything that resembles authority(probably still teenagers).

>both groups don't do any real meaningful political work and by extension don't adress real problems


The contemporary active left is not a mass movement, meaning the time is ideal for a new political doctrine, just like in 1848, to emerge. The only thing missing in the mainstream left is a
new nationalist doctrine that has a political fatalist view of the world that gives hope and the appeal to the right stratas of the population(thank you Hoffer for figuring that last part out).

Marxism is ony "popular"(more like a husk of a movement) today because of the inexistence of this new doctrine. The moment it takes form and takes off, people, like changing from an old product to a new, will adhere to it.
279 posts and 69 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764115

>>1764072
Anarchists are the first ones to point out the flaws in Libertarian Municipalism, Anarchists have been criticizing Bookchinites for decades. We just recognize Libertarian Socialist unity and that Rojava is a step toward a brighter future even if not ideologically pure.

 No.1764175

File: 1708125685447.jpg (43.11 KB, 441x692, hoxha.jpg)

>>1762838
TIL Hoxha was an anti-authoritarian libertarian socialist

 No.1764221

>>1764072
Plenty of municipal counties in every country but its extremely rare that these are governed with direct democratic methods with the exception of Switzerland. Electing dictators is not democracy. But then again actual proletarian democracy is too radical for these "communists".

 No.1764228

Leninist are no different from liberals. Both want ruling elites to control every aspect of society and reject collectivism.

 No.1765212

File: 1708216746705.gif (3.16 MB, 424x498, laf.gif)

>[marxism is] dead ideology for a dead age
>syndicalist flag



File: 1707690679498.jpg (98.43 KB, 720x487, 1.jpg)

 No.1758021[Reply]

Why do marxists keep upholding values like "democracy" or "human right", treating socialism as an extension of liberalism? I wonder what Marx had to say about those who viewed communism as the 'true' realization of the ideals envisioned in the American and European bourgeois revolutions. Surely nothing negative, was it?
88 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1759306

>>1759297
What human rights exist in the liberal west? You only have those temporary privileges which the state grants you, and its agents have the choice in when to enforce them and upon whom.

 No.1759381

>>1759306
That's true of every system under the sun - except for the ones half the folks in this thread write fanfic about

 No.1759753

>>1759248
>thread explicitly and constantly reminding you that its an attack on so-called asocial ahistorical universal truths
<repeat everyone you disagree with has no real personal qualms about rape and murder ad nauseam
yeah youre a real fucking idiot arent you. try to rub some neurons together some time

 No.1761557

File: 1707937040932.jpg (267.83 KB, 1080x1462, GGPK5uRWQAA-Fy0.jpg)

marx makes a compelling argument against moralism tbh

 No.1765175

File: 1708212200651.jpg (34.29 KB, 895x503, 1568481739265.jpg)

>>1758729
>>1758742
The whole point is that there is no absolute, pure, 'true' etc. democracy. You are asserting the *ideal* of democracy against the real results of democratic rule under capitalism - namely, the supremacy of the bourgeoisie.
When we see that democracy has led to the rule of the bourgeoisie, the answer is not to appeal to some fictitious 'real democracy', but to recognize that democracy itself is just an organizational mechanism, whose content is provided by relations external to it.
Marx makes this point himself in the Conspectus. 'Democracy' does not necessarily imply the rule of any particular class - everything depends upon the conditions within which democracy exists and operates.



 No.1716487[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

In my opinion, this is the stance on all social issues truly principled leftists should take, especially anarchists who fight against any kind of social hierarchy. The consistent life ethic (CLE) seeks to preserve all life at all cost. It recognizes the innate dignity of every human (and in most cases non-human) persons. It fights against anything which destroys and degrades human life including abortion, euthanasia, the death penalty, war, imperialism and all forms of oppression including classism, ableism, racism, Malthusianism, eugenics, etc. Why can’t we get the wider left to embrace this philosophy?
522 posts and 108 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764348

>>1764041
"Justice For the Five" is a scam.

 No.1764808

Rehumanize can go to hell.

 No.1764982

>>1764348
>smoking dead babies
You’re disgusting sis.

 No.1765171

>>1764808
Daily reminder the Democrats only became pro-abortion due to ABSCAM removing all the pro-life, pro-worker Aden’s abs replacing them with Malthusian New Left hippies.

 No.1766435

Fetus deletus



 No.1584143[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

This thread is dedicated to our accomplishment of having broken the upper limit of sea surface temperature and the lower limit of antarctic sea ice amount charts this summer, hence ushering our species firmly into the capitalocene. Good job guys! Welcome to the future.

Here's an article about that:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/28/crazy-off-the-charts-records-has-humanity-finally-broken-the-climate

As for the news, there is a drought blocking shipping at the Panama canal, bad wildfires in North America and Greece, persistent heatwaves in eastern Europe and northern Africa, and floods in central and eastern China.

Here's the latest report from the IPCC
<AR6 Synthesis Report Climate Change 2023
https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/

The website of NASA about climate is great for getting data and visualizing climate change
https://climate.nasa.gov/

Last thread: >>1332129
211 posts and 63 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764874

>>1764745
Let's see what the paper says
>NEEM surface temperatures after the onset of the Eemian (126,000 years ago) peaked at 8 ± 4 degrees Celsius above the mean of the past millennium, followed by a gradual cooling that was probably driven by the decreasing summer insolation.
>8 ± 4 degrees Celsius
>Eemian interglacial of 15.000 years
>vs
>Anthropocene global warming in 250 years
Gee I wonder why the last one is being more catastrophic…

 No.1764876

>>1764745
Also, that image is wrong. There should be a straight line at the end representing the last 200 years going to at least 2C warmer. They left that out. Now die.

 No.1764887

>>1764744
Ipcc is shit and aggressively downplay climate change because they are paid off. Watch paul beckwith.

 No.1764891

>>1764718
>you retarded illiterate battycrease
Yardies have found /leftypol/, wut the bludclot!

 No.1764913

>>1764891
Withe the high vulnerability of Jamaica to climate change and the mess it already wrought you'd expect people living there to be more perceptive about their shorelines being eroded, the longer droughts and the hurricanes getting worse. Not them being brainwashed by glowing US think tanks into burying their heads into the (receding) sand.



File: 1689102871154.png (99.64 KB, 1500x1500, glowiepedia.png)

 No.1531900[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

post instances of Wikipedia glowing, that is WP displaying blatant US/NATO propaganda or disinformation as facts
discuss ways of making WP glow less, including sharing sources that counter the glow. meta studies by reliable institutions are best
what to do if you discover radioactive material on WP:
>do NOT edit without logging in. otherwise your IP will be displayed. IP edits are viewed with more suspicion by editors. VPN or Tor IPs even more so
>DO register an account
>do NOT register more than one account per IP. sockpuppetry is not difficult to detect
>DO edit more articles than just those that glow. this helps build good reputation
>DO complain loudly on Talk pages. some articles are restricted, but Talk pages generally are not
>DO familiarize yourself with WP's bureaucracy. lib editors love referring to WP:OR, WP:SYNTH and similar to try and shut down discussion
WP editors are autistic, but not as autistic as the average poster here is. dedicated comrades can de-glow pages given sufficient numbers and patience
179 posts and 89 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1761935

>>1761810
Here is the article:

French oligarch and owner of major newspaper and internet providers, as well as domestic partner of Europe's richest billionaire.

 No.1761994

>>1761899
>seemingly started by infrared people
Those people are banned from Wikipedia now btw. Seems like they were probably paid editors. One of them had a past of making promotional pages and had already been topic-banned or something. Pretty good chance Hinkle paid some people to make the page.

 No.1762236

>>1761994
>Pretty good chance Hinkle paid some people to make the page.
would be hilarious if true
>hmm today I will wander into a nest of libs and write a self-aggrandizing page about myself and Haz
>oh no I have been exposed and now they've extended-protected the page about myself and are exposing my barely concealed grift

 No.1764855

>read the wiki page on Katyn out of curiosity
>includes direct quotes from Goebbels taken at face value

 No.1764904

>>1764855
does this look like the face of a liar to you?
the Katyn page also doesn't mention the German brass found at the site



File: 1708143581678.jpg (224.42 KB, 1080x463, sex.jpg)

 No.1764384[Reply]

>state bureaucrats jacking up electricity prices is called corruption
>The state selling their electricity company to venture capitals who proceed to also jack up the prices is called "streamlining"
Is there anything more odious than the liberal "anti-corruption" clarion call? And the most annoying thing is that almost everyone who is not a leftist agrees with this because they genuinely think they're fighting against corruption, while in actuality they're just being useful dupes for the bourgs and their labour aristocrat allies.
You can see this everywhere in the Third World. The most recent example of this is in Argentina, where Milei promised to get rid of the State apparatus who is squandering the Masses's wealth through corruption. He did just that, and immediately proceed to transfer all erstwhile state powers to powerful billionaires who immediately turned the county into a cheap breadbasket for the West while domestic consumption collapses due to dollarization, especially among the proles. So even though Peronist "corruption" is theoretically eliminated the condition of the masses gets even worse under the streamlined state.
Other examples include Pakistan, where the country being sold to the IMF is literally marketed as some sort of recovery program, jn Brazil with the lava jato scandal that took down the PT government, in Russia during the Yeltsin years, etc etc.
And this is not to mention that corruption is deeply intertwined with capitalism, functioning (along with organized crime) as a vehicle for inter-bourgeois class struggle, so the idea that you can remove corruption by deputing managerial duty to Capitalists or just having a gigachad strongman leader is retarded
3 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764402

>>1764401
I mean, yeah, it literally is gospel. Suggest that the market isn't optimal at… anything, and be branded a heretic.

 No.1764405

>>1764384
liberalism is reactionarism and reactionarism is reductionism

 No.1764812

this thread is timely given how westoid media is shedding fake tears over the death of Agent Navalnyj. "anti-corruption" is similarly used to attempt to destabilize Belarus
the only honest anti-corruption campaign is happening in China right now under the leadership of comrade Xi Jinping (pbuh)

 No.1764827


Anti-corruption legislation is like putting anti-virus on an operating system you know is insecure. It's an acceptance that, as the system is structured, the thing being anti-'d is inevitable and spending resources to clean up after it ceases to matter, because one doesn't want to switch to something better.

 No.1764869

Always looks to me like 'anti corruption ' in these scenarios is an excuse for one bourgeois clique to target another bourgeois clique of power.
It kind of works under the assumption that in such states we exist in anyone with power can be sold as corrupt as corruption is built into the system.



 No.1762875[Reply]

I just had the stupidest argument with the Nafos lol

In short, a Ukra says that he does not want to interact with Russian artists, I respond with that Russian artists are suffering tremendous xenophobia since the war started and that I am going to support them even more… the worst mistake of my life

Something I admire about Ukrainians is their ability to cry because a Third World country on the other side of the world does not support them in their war. If that doesn't work, they turn to their secret weapon, racism.

Seriously, how is calling me a Nazi because "haha Argentinians are Nazis" or calling me poor is supposed to make me support your side in a war XD

in summary; let the thermonuclear war start and everything above Ecuador be destroyed lol
8 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764746

>>1762875
Posadas reincarnated

 No.1764749

>in summary; let the thermonuclear war start and everything above Ecuador be destroyed lol

dayum, imagine Portuguese becoming the world language

 No.1764755

>>1762886
Some people think supporting Ukraine is a personality.

 No.1764758

Umm anon siberia is that way on the left

 No.1764796

we have a thread for this



File: 1707855922698.jpeg (31.7 KB, 562x619, IMG_3827.jpeg)

 No.1760365[Reply]

I have a question about the housing unit and families under communism
Since Engels and Marx talked about how the initial form of inheritance came about as a result of communal tribe units being broken up into smaller families with the advent of housing in order to allow private property to be passed down, does this mean that under communism every house will be fused into a communal barracks type of unit with no social division of labor to account for the fusing of individual family units during the transition to communism? How would sex be had?
21 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1762746

>>1762690
>>1762690
>The future of TTRPGs is indie and homebrew, a la the current OSR trend

that has always been the PRESENT of ttrpgs man. ive been playing for like 20 years and spent maybe $200 in materials over that time and none of my groups ever bought anything, the hasbro and wotc buying shit out and shilling it is a net benefit because it gets more people familiar with the form, whoever sticks around will realize sooner or later that buying books and miniatures is optional at best & usually totally irrelevant to your own homebrew games

>>1762684
its funny even back in the 00s before d&d made a pop culture comeback, i'd see d&d printouts and dice in anarchist squats and DIY spots. in that case it was definitely at least partially because those places draw in people with countercultural nerd interests, but it makes perfect sense, its very cheap hobby with infinite potential as long as everyones having fun & is on the same page, no surprise a bunch of broke weirdos living together with their heads in the clouds would get into it

 No.1763660

>>1761634

where in the books he talks about people's sex life? I know he has fucked up views on gay people but that's nowhere reflected in the book

 No.1764425

>>1763660
From memory he doesn't discuss anything like that in TANS, I have no idea what that anon is on about. He does speculate about the possible operation of communes (which from memory seemed kind of undesirable).

 No.1764563

>>1763660
Remember that lesbians are allies of the working class, since their average household income is below that of gays. Uphold the true party line!

 No.1764741

File: 1708183846336.gif (831.19 KB, 498x364, hazspeen.gif)

>>1764563
lesbians are proletarian because they wear flannel and chop wood. straight women are bourgeois because they wear dresses and work as teachers. it's the two-hole law of balance



 No.1762550[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Is it normal for me, as aleftist, to care little about palestine? I mean, I want them to be free and israel to overthrow it's fascist leadership but I just don't feel any emotion towards ethnic conflicts. Does this make me a bad leftist?
144 posts and 19 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1764672

>>1764105
..To be rather honest : every single thing coming out of an Israeli-Jews' mouth (and their useful idiots , most prominent of which most are White Europeans, Indians and Evangelicals from LatAm and the US) is even dumber than the other .

The cascade goes like this :

1)"The country was desolate ; it was a desert "

>Proceed showing documentary and archeological evidence of thriving settlement and economic exports through the past 2000 years ; including clashes with the first settlements in the 1880s .


2)"Okay : They are still "Arabians" who came in the 7th century" .

>Proceed showing archeological and documentary evidence of continuity between Islamic and Pre-Islamic population via cultural acculturation rather than mass-replacement + Arab ethnogenesis in the Levant + PEF articles arguing the population is of Canaanite origins .


3)"..Fine : but the whole concept of "Palestine" is artificial of short history " .

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1764690

>>1764672
>They actually believe themselves that they are not mimicking a long line of Genocide perpetrators .. they all share the same thing : rejection , and denial
No they don't. Just because they tell you something don't assume the good faith.
They lie as easily as they breathe.
There is no denial here they know exactly what they do.

 No.1764704

>>1764672
Give Palestine to Rojava.

 No.1764729

>>1762550
it makes you a better leftist but arguably a worse person

 No.1764730

>>1764729
or at least less kind, which is sometimes necessary



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