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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois

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File: 1748987766039.jpg (27.85 KB, 353x480, Mini-telescreen.jpg)

 

Personally, I think the proletarianization of the media, the academy and tech is based.

I want every writer, professional and code-monkey to be an immiserated prole who hates capitalism with a burning fire.

It starts small with generic anti-capitalism snuck in here and there. A generic fight against "the system" which can easily hijacked by fascism. But how long can the pressures of ideology hold against the falling rate of profit? The industrialization of knowledge production is inevitable. And sure the bosses will try to exercise control (as they do) and plenty of workers will be fired and have their work rewritten. But why bother censoring yourself when you're making minimum wage anyway?

So how will the bourgeoisie hold power when the workers are exposed to blatant Marxist propaganda everyday?

When the propagandists are as immiserated as the coal miners then the propaganda will reflect the interests of the miners, not the bourgeoisie.
14 posts omitted.

>>2296786
Nobody wants to go to meetings every week, they just want shit to work without having to think about it

>>2296781
>Participatory democracy is neither desirable
I think it's highly desirable. The further you get from participatory democracy, the more of an asymmetry you see in terms of political interests. A citizen has the interests of a citizen.
>nor practical
Depends how it's implemented, see below.

>>2296826
>Nobody wants to go to meetings every week
There's a million ways to implement participatory democracy most of which don't involve people going to meetings every week. As just one example, Paul Cockshott made a pretty solid proposal here: https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/02/03/socialism-and-direct-democracy/

>>2296861
>citizen

>>2296990
I don't see how the use of the word "citizen" makes invalid my argument.

its interesting that marxists and capitalists want the same thing isnt it?



File: 1746122505249-0.png (1.54 MB, 600x1200, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1746122505249-1.png (660.48 KB, 600x600, ClipboardImage.png)

 

This thread is for the discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators
Sorted by last name
>Paul Cockshott
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
265 posts and 64 image replies omitted.

>>2296196
There are two problems:
1. In this system people will try to use up all their money, so in order to not cause shortages, you need to produce equal to the money supply. However if you let people save, and lets say you have statistics that people put 10% of their paycheck into their long term savings account, you can reduce the production of consumer items by 10%, and reallocate those resources and labour somewhere else.
2. It sends a bad message. You are creating undesirable psychological and cultural attitudes by punishing people for frugality. Imagine this mindset being applied to running an enterprise, where employees are actively trying to use up all their inputs regardless of necessity.

>>2296551
>if you let people save, and lets say you have statistics that people put 10% of their paycheck into their long term savings account, you can reduce the production of consumer items by 10%, and reallocate those resources and labour somewhere else.
Yeah, but in socialism we are making the administrative decision to consciously commit at an early planning stage to a particular split between consumption and building up the means of production. The more spontaneous the hoarding VS spending decisions are, the less useful they are for planning things together.

>It sends a bad message. You are creating undesirable psychological and cultural attitudes by punishing people for frugality.

I think frugality under socialism is a sort of mental illness so I agree with sending that "punishment" (which I don't see as such, rather than the absence of reward).
>Imagine this mindset being applied to running an enterprise, where employees are actively trying to use up all their inputs regardless of necessity.
Expiring consumption vouchers just expire, they don't really force you to obtain things. And whether anything like expiring input vouchers would be used is a distinct question from using expiring consumption vouchers.

Been thinking a bit more about how to get a square matrix.

Suppose there are several recipes with physical units for making the same output.

First thinking without joint production: For each of the inputs, we note the lowest number among these recipes (might well be zero). Now we only have one pseudo-recipe for the output. We call the result the optimist's physical matrix. For each of the inputs, we note the highest number among these recipes. Now we only have one pseudo-recipe for the output. We call the result the pessimist's physical matrix.

Now to joint production: Perhaps this is easier to communicate when talking about this "financially". The products coming out of a joint process have to justify their production cost together. That means their sum of prices must yield a certain amount together, but this can be split between these products in any way as long as the amount they have to make together is met. We can think in extremes: The price may be entirely covered by one of the joint outputs with the other outputs being free. Only one of the outputs being entirely "responsible" for the physical joint process is then used for the pessimistic look at this output; and assuming another output takes full responsibility makes this output look like coming out of nothing.

With this procedure we get two matrix things and both are square ones.

Empirical square matrix:

Multiple recipes for making the same output are used in one empirically observed proportion. That's just one big empirical recipe.

Joint production: The products fetch prices. The price×quantity of each of these is used to account for each input of the joint recipe between these products in exactly these proportions.

>>2274847
>the God of Logos
Is that the God who made all the corporate logos? A God of commercial arts? Yeesh

>>2296551
you could also send the vouchers towards an artistic endeavor you enjoy without wanting anything specific in return (given most art would be freely reproducible). Hoarding your vouchers shouldnt be encouraged, the whole point is that the production correspond to people wants and needs, and you need people to spend them for that.



 

Indigenous lawyer Aguilar leads race to head Mexico's Supreme Court
Indigenous rights defender Hugo Aguilar is leading in the race to head Mexico's highest court following the country's first popular election to appoint judges and magistrates, according to electoral authority data on Tuesday. With 87% of votes counted from Sunday's election, Aguilar had some 4.94 million votes - 5.2% of the total. Lenia Batres, who is close to the ruling Morena party, was behind him at 4.69 million votes, or 4.9%.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/indigenous-lawyer-aguilar-leads-race-head-mexicos-supreme-court-2025-06-03/

Evo's supporters stage road blockades in Bolivia
The blockades, which also disrupted highways connecting Santa Cruz and La Paz, are part of broader demands against President Luis Arce Catacora's government, accused of causing an economic crisis with dollar and fuel shortages due to declining gas production. The demonstrators, waving both Bolivian flags and the multicolored indigenous wiphala, demanded Arce’s resignation, labeling him a “traitor.”
https://en.mercopress.com/2025/06/03/evo-s-supporters-stage-road-blockades-in-bolivia

Guatemalan court orders arrests of Colombian officials who led a UN anti-corruption mission
Velásquez responded via X after learning of the accusations. “So now the corrupt Guatemalan attorney general and her prosecutor Curruchiche – designated as corrupt and sanctioned by the United States and the European Union – extend their persecution for Luz Adriana Camargo and me,” Velásquez wrote. “My solidarity with the former officials and so many Guatemalan citizens who the Attorney General’s Office has forced into exile.”
https://apnews.com/article/guatemala-colombia-ivan-velasquez-corruption-3fe9650dcf6bffd36b615ed0b28f27e4

Toronto city council passes controversial 'bubble zone' protest bylaw
The original version of the bylaw pPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Millions of legal immigrants’ lives upended after social security freeze
Without any public notice, on 19 March, the program was halted, affecting millions of immigrants every year and burdening Social Security Administration offices, as those applicants will now have to visit a Social Security Administration office and apply separately to receive a social security number. Following the freeze, the Trump administration issued a memo on 15 April aimed at preventing undocumented immigrants from receiving social security benefits, but provided no evidence of it being a problem.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/03/social-security-program-quietly-frozen-musk-immigrant-claims

Trump job cuts hobble NOAA team that reopens ports after hurricanes, sources say
A Florida-based federal emergency response team that reopens U.S. ports after storms and accidents is unstaffed this hurricane season largely due to widespread federal workforce reductions driven by the Trump administration, according to two sources familiar with the matter.
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/trump-job-cuts-hobble-noaa-team-that-reopens-ports-after-hurricanes-sources-say-2025-06-03/

Massachusetts students and teachers protest teen’s ‘inhumane’ arrest by Ice
Students at Massachusetts’s Milford high school staged a walkout on Monday to show support for their classmate Marcelo Gomes Da Silva, who was headed to volleyball practice when he was detained over the weekend by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice) agents who were actually looking for his father.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/03/boston-student-protest-ice-arrest-marcelo-gomes-da-silva

Los Angeles County will pay $2.7M to teen boy attacked in ‘gladiator fights’ at detention facility
Los Angeles County on Monday agreed to pay $2.7 million to a teenagerPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Ukraine: From social collapse to social explosion. What are the obstacles?
The May holidays, during which this article was being prepared, are the traditional time of mass exodus of the Ukrainian population to their dachas and garden plots. The shutdown of the formal sector of the economy due to bombing and mobilization is re-launching the process of agrarian archaization, which already allowed millions of Ukrainians to survive in the harsh 90s. If we take official data, the majority of the population of Ukraine should have died of hunger long ago. As of April 1, 2025, the average pension in the country was UAH 6,341, or $153. At the same time, according to the Pension Fund of Ukraine, in November 2024, the total number of pensioners in the country was 10.353 million people, which is 10.5 thousand more than a month earlier. The minimum wage in Ukraine this year is UAH 8,000. In our native Kharkov this may only be enough for two persons to buy food for a couple of weeks. Understanding the situation is further complicated by the difficulty of conducting opinion polls, which do not give a complete picture. Sociologists and political scientists say in informal conversations that 80% of people in Ukraine being offered to participate in research refuse to speak in face-to-face groups. In telephone surveys, 9 out of 10 people refuse to be interviewed. What these people think about the economic situation in the country and how they characterize their own financial condition, one can only guess. More reliable figures than these government statistics are provided by field calculations from the UN World Food Programme, according to which almost a third of the population in six frontline regions of Ukraine is experiencing food shortages.
https://libcom.org/article/ukraine-social-collapse-social-explosion-what-are-obstacles

Labour’s historic inability to ‘read the room’ :JOHN ELLISON looks back at Labour’s opportunistic tendency, when in office, to veer to the right on policy as well as ideological worldview
JUST twenty-five years ago, a tiny journalistic event took place within the pages of Sunday’s Observer: a short piece by former Labour deputy leader and shadow chancellor Roy Hattersley. He had been amiably voluble in media outlets during more than 32 yPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

File: 1749029463814.jpeg (50.88 KB, 634x474, image.jpeg)

>British tourist says Corfu holiday was a 'nightmare' because there was 'no English food'

>Susan Edwards set off on a seven-night all-inclusive holiday to the Lido Corfu Sun Hotel on the Greek island with her family last month but claimed the trip was 'horrendous from the minute we got there'.



>The 69-year-old paid £750 for the holiday but blasted the hotel's dining options, insisting 'there was no food we could eat and we couldn't have anything to drink'.


>On the first morning, she could have 'toast, a hard boiled egg, or something in sauce. There was no bacon'.


>The next day's breakfast was 'mozzarella and sliced tomatoes. There was no hot bacon or sausage'.


>Thankfully, 'we got chips one day' but only 'one day out of the whole lot'.


>'There was fish, sardines and rice - I was sick to death of looking at rice,' Ms Edwards, from Westerhope, said.


Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2297088
no proper british food like pizza and chinese takeout, the suffering she has had to go through… startling.

Tybna



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>Islamabad Inspector General Syed Ali Nasir Rizvi said on Tuesday that the 17-year-old TikTok star, Sana Yousaf, was shot dead by a man who had repeatedly contacted her online.

>Sana, who turned 17 last week and had more than a million followers across her social media accounts, was killed at her home in Islamabad on Monday evening.


>The police have arrested a 22-year-old on suspicion of her murder, who spent hours loitering outside her home.


>"It was a case of repeated rejections. The boy was trying to reach out to her time and again," the Islamabad police chief said during a news conference.


>"It was a gruesome and cold-blooded murder," Rizvi added.


>Yousaf had more than 800,000 followers on TikTok, a wildly popular platform in Pakistan, where she posted lip-sync videos, skincare tips, and promotional content for beauty products.


>The last video posted on her account was hours before her murder, in which she was seen cutting a cake for her birthday.


>"Rest in Peace" and "Justice for Sana", read some comments under the video.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
28 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2295738
the western half of pakistan is iranic

File: 1749017777680.gif (62.34 KB, 255x246, 1321234.gif)

>>2295711
Chuds WON

>>2295744
they should be facing each other in the meme when saying this

DEAD PAKISTANI WOMEN DO NOT MATTER
ONLY DEAD PALESTINIAN WOMEN MATTER
FIGHT THE ZIO ENEMY
DO NOT CREATE DIVISION WITHIN THE UMMAH

>>2297016
>>2295738
NEVER EQUATE INDIA WITH PAKISTAN
INDIANS ARE DARK UGLY HINDUS
PAKISTANIS ARE ARYANS



File: 1747065056484.jpg (208.17 KB, 1088x1575, GqTqlrkW0AESDzb.jpg)

 

Are they lumpen? Class traitor? Revolutionary lifestyle that doesn't contribute to the working relation of modern capitalism? Leeches? Vagabonds? What's your opinion on NEETs? Did you had a NEETdom period in your life? How was it?

I did have a period of NEETdom, it's a quiet liberating, spent my days reading books, mangas, playing vidya, going to the gym and doing walks, almost 0 stress, pretty freeing lifestyle, I would keep being a NEET if I had the oportunity, but life is a bitch, I survived with Mombux.
56 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2296968
Sakura cute

NEETs are part of the declassed. Back in the 60's you could walk into a factory and easily get a job at the equivalent of $40 or $50 an hour, get housing thus providing the material conditions for raising a family. These days you have the choice between three options. One: debt-slavery university and all it entails (required to have a chance to approach former proletarian standards of living.) Two: vocation or service jobs at a lower proletarian standard of living (competing with immigrant labor.) Three: disengagement with labor, this includes being a lumpen criminal, NEETing, or becoming homeless.

The fact is that in the US getting a job is harder than ever, there is more competition, there is much more anti-revolutionary science including social filters, psychological operations, diseducation, 'pulling up the ladder' by older generations, ideological state apparatus of exploitative society, ultra-regulation, all founded on a rentier economy that reduces opportunity systematically for profit. Anarchists have more or less succeeded in pressing religious organizations to provide food, and mutual aid networks for free distribution of information through the web, as well as tolerance for homelessness camps and living in one's car, but have failed in creating opportunities for work and housing, which are what really matter for proletarian reproduction. Ultimately, unemployment, lack of housing, and mass immigration are weapons used by the bourgeoisie to keep down variable capital costs and maximize their income from rent.

Communism is free time and nothing else but also the ability to change the world for the better and be a meaningful part of their community, so its a good idea for the declassed to volunteer their labor socially instead of isolating themselves.

File: 1749011077172.png (243.07 KB, 680x623, d0e.png)

>>2296965
learn what words mean

>>2296971
>Communism is free time and nothing else but also the ability to change the world for the better and be a meaningful part of their community, so its a good idea for the declassed to volunteer their labor socially instead of isolating themselves.
nice lib mythologizing

>>2296968
>except that they would just outsource the labor market to cheap expendable foreign labor and increase prices for everything forcing us to work again

File: 1749013561600.png (1.69 MB, 1920x1080, spectator.png)

NEETs are very cool.
t. NEET



File: 1748766149476.jpg (698.63 KB, 1280x959, 1747087964342.jpg)

 

I spent 4 hours last night laughing with my organized Iraqi comrade about MLs, their infantile belief in the state, support for the most batshit reactionary groups in the region and their Lassallen tendency. We also had a laugh about Hakim's blatant chauvinism, inaction and grift.

Good times. Thanks for making my week bros. The real movement will crush all, promise.
372 posts and 65 image replies omitted.

>>2296914
but the state appropriates surplus value from workers under the primary stage dotp. according to marx a portion of proceeds of labor are appropriated for the replacement and expansion of productive forces, public services, for insurance, etc. so even if china is fully communist, in the sense that it is fully controlled by the workers party, the system of exploitation of man by man is not yet completely abolished even if it is reduced

>>2296920
I should've put /s at >>2296914 because I'm not the anon you were replying to lol.

>>2296896
The war on drugs is People's War.
>>2296916
Money fundamentally changes its nature in being applied to the needs of the development of socialist economy. Under capitalism, money is turned into capital and is a means of appropriating the unpaid labour of other people. In socialist economy, on the other hand, money is a weapon of economic construction in the interests of the mass of the people in accordance with the requirements of the basic economic law of socialism. It is an expression of the socialist relations of production.

>>2292054
Mods IP range?

>>2296920
>but the state appropriates surplus value from workers under the primary stage dotp
Wrong. Expanded socialist reproduction and expanded capitalist reproduction are opposites. Extended socialist reproduction requires the constant renewal and increase of the production of both means of production and articles of consumption, in the definite proportions laid down by the national economic plan.

In its value the social product is divided into: (1) the value of used-up means of production, which has been transferred to the product; (2) the new value which labour has created for itself; (3) the new value which labour has created for society. The social and economic nature of each of these parts of the value of the social product is essentially different from its nature under capitalism. In the process of socialist reproduction, national economic funds function in place of constant and variable capital, and the net income of society takes the place of surplus-value.



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Fuck Debord, Deleuze, Guattari, Adorno, Zizek, all the Frankfurt school, all other postmodernist, critical theory, all these indecipherable philosophers. I despise these social fascist lickspittles. Why are they even considered remotely socialist? It's like they didn't take a single lesson from The German Ideology, they read Marx encyclopedically but don't even pay attention to what he's saying! All they see is the long winded style of writing he inherited from Hegel and replicate that rather than spending a moment to realize that their philosophy is useless. Like liberals they pick out a few 'radical' sounding things and ignore the real work on political economy!

Their understanding of socialism is completely liberal because it is just taking the aesthetics and going 'Well, they had some good points. But I think we need a new way'. Liberal scum. Always they end up supporting NATO and social democracy, or they become ridiculous anarchists. The post-modernists have had a terrible effect on socialism. It is the ideology of neoliberal capitalism, incompatible with Marxism and communism. Post modernists need their delusions beaten out of them to show that the real world does have meaning. Postism is completely rubbish. All 'posts' are ridiculous theories, that included Post-colonialism. Fundementally they are bourgeois, because it is rejecting real progress.

All these lickspittles say is the most radical things ever. "Let's abolish capitalism and all exploitation! Let's abolish time! Let's abolish the current way we see the world!". But then they don't do anything about it! And lots of what they are asking for and conflating with the class struggle is ridiculous like paedophilia and time abolishing. These ones are the ideological fault for postisms and identity politics becoming such a big thing. Nobody real can read their work. Even Marx tried to make his work readable even though at times it is difficult. But they revel in how complex and difficult it is. This is for a reason - their audience is the petit-bourgeois, not the working class.


There has never been a good philosopher. Hegel might have been useful to Marx, but once Marx transcended him he should never be read (Lenin is wrong on this). The only real philosophers are the ones who are working in the struggle. The fascists should be ostracised and their books burned. I despise them and I am angered whenever I hear one of their evil names.
131 posts and 22 image replies omitted.

>>2282598
they are pretty dumb books

>>2243005
>go read 3 whole pages and two paragraphs of adorno non-stop crying about how evil mickey mouse is
>>2243376
this should be proven in concrete and empirical way anyone can do a marx-vibes inspired essay about how whatever is currently annoying them is poisoned by capitalism

File: 1748999178120.gif (1.45 MB, 498x374, truth-nuke.gif)


>>2280258
>Why this fear of concreteness and structure

anything real is poisoned by the sin of ideology thats why critical theory praxis is always about doing nothing

>>2242664
>Being against academics that distort Marx means you're a chud.



File: 1748998972089.jpg (278.57 KB, 1975x1300, manu.jpg)

 

I have solved the housing dilemma. It's mobile homes. Cheap and efficient. But instead of throwing everyone into the same mobile park lot. They will be split upon preferences.



 

Why do boomer leftists love(d) Israel so much? Guilt over the holocaust? Romantic depiction of early colonists in their national-socialist kibbutz? Positive media exposure in their formative years?
Most of old people supporting Israel in the west were staunch left-wingers in their youth, sometimes they still are leftist just not on this particular issue.
48 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

>>2292992
Except wsws's opposition to 1619 isn't that it doesn't revere the American Revolution enough but that it advocates for a racialist view of history instead of a class based and materialist one.

>>2291946
>Most of old people supporting Israel in the west were staunch left-wingers in their youth
The premise is a bold lie. Why does this thread exist?

>>2292072
>>2292131
Honestly people should have learned from Liberia how quickly an oppressed group can become the oppressors if given the opportunity. It also shows the futility of ethnic separation as a solution to such oppression.

>>2291946
they are brainwashed, some would stop after they saw what true zionazism is…

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>>2293323
Yeah I think it's a mistake to view boomers as a bunch of leftists who turned conservatives. Actually, the boomers in the New Left saw themselves as a besieged minority in a very conservative society and that included a significant number of their peers as well.

But I think a left-to-Zionist pipeline is probably more common among Jews. There are Jewish-Zionist publications (I'm thinking of Fathom Journal) that are hostile to the Free Palestine movement and the left, but the people are middle-aged and older ex-leftists, and I mean people who had once been in really hardcore groups in some cases like the Spartacist League (which is a strict anti-Zionist organization). But they they tend to hit harder because they understand what leftists actually believe more than Ben Shapiro does.



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Zionazism seems schizo at first glance but it is just the logical endpoint of White supremacism, Christian supremacism, and European settler-colonialism: Jews have been knighted as "honorary" whites, and have been enlisted as crusaders against Muslims by white European Christians. It is an alliance of the two older Abrahamic faiths against the new one, and an alliance of the "true whites" and the "off whites" against the browns.

How should the secular international Communist left combat these powerful spooks? Or should they simply ignore it and focus on building the labor movement?
19 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2261313
Mediterranean

>>2261313
ctrl+T dictionary.com

>>2260858
not rare. multiple photos were shown during the first weeks of zios invading Gaza, where they were altogether with ukrainian nazis tattooed with sonnenrads.

File: 1746852166294.png (396.33 KB, 640x360, ClipboardImage.png)

one of the side plots in Thomas Pynchon's Inherent Vice is that there's a Jewish crime lord named Mickey Wolffmann who uses neo nazis as body guards. The main character Doc Sportello is a stoner private investigator who learns about this through a member of the Black Guerrilla Family who just got out of jail. It's such an interesting sequence in the book because it takes place in LA in the late 60s, and Pynchon, who was probably a spook at some point in his life based on his well known real life paranoia, STEM background, proximity to the US security apparatus in the 1950s, and tendency to write about shit like Operation Paperclip a lot, made me think he based that character Wolfmann off of a real guy.

>>2260858
>logical endpoint
logical conclusion**

there is no "end" of this,

>>2260858
>honorary" whites
they are white, google their skin cancer rates vs the locals



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