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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1764453266252.png (1020.08 KB, 1038x778, ClipboardImage.png)

 

Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

You must answer the question to make a new thread. See the last field.
The body was too short or empty.
258 posts and 16 image replies omitted.

>>2580637
Edmund's Party.

File: 1764639579873.png (129.87 KB, 400x267, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2580641
>Edmund's Party.
Green, pure Green party.

File: 1764640638775.jpg (23.14 KB, 449x461, 1760095962091331.jpg)


I think it's very weird how Shen Yun, the propaganda arm of Falun Gong, which is an extreme right wing neo-fascist conspiracy theorist anti-vax anti-medicine cult, is allowed to promote their shows on TV adverts.
Their "performances" literally show Marx as some evil demon destroying China complete with storm clouds and tsunamis ffs LMAO

>>2580703
>Marx as some evil demon destroying China complete with storm clouds and tsunamis
that's kinda awesome, he's like Moses in a way



File: 1764120396767.jpg (8.03 KB, 310x162, images.jpg)

 

The biggest rebutal I see in the eyes of the average person to "socialism" and "communism" is that it's utopic, that it relies on bad assumptions, that it doesn't work in reality etc. In essence, that we're advocating for something that can't be and that we have no alternative to capitalism.
And, to that effect, what are we even advocating for ? It appears to me that we have a bunch of different movements with many different goals that don't actually ressemble one another. Yet, despite this, very few of these movements have actual "models", it just seems like they want to reform or do a revolution for the sake of action rather than purpose.
Shouldn't we concentrate on clear objectives and goals before having all this talk about how marxism-leninism-maoism-gonzalo thought is superior to cybernetic-trotskism-councilism in achieving [we run into the problem here]?

>inb4 abolition of private property, abolition of capitalism, abolition of alienation

We can't actually base our objectives around these vagues goals though, or at least not at the current time and at the forefront. Abolition of private property doesn't mean anything if there's no framework to offer an alternative or to replace it. Marx laid us many goals but, given that he didn't specify what or how, shouldn't it be up to us to conceptualize the type of system which we want in accordance with the relevant theories he proposed.

Apart from small intellectuals scattered everywhere (Cockshott, Schweickart etc), there seems to be an evident lack of clear model that actually adresses the critique of marx's ambitions and dismisses its apparent utopianism.
46 posts and 11 image replies omitted.

>>2579314
>And then Marx critiqued the concept later.
No, what he critiqued was the specific combo of labor notes with decentralized decisions in co-operatives. Capital was later than that. And CotGP is one of the last things he ever textiqued, so you failuriqued to get the order of events right.

>>2580571
Finally someone willing to comment that doesn't just reference vague statements about the development of productive forces and the withering of the state.
Interested in your perspective about potential future organisational methods? What do you think of a social network as a sort of hub for direct voluntary organisation of labour. Instead of wages and or private property, just straight suggestion and coordination if people are interested, if not, like a shit meme it goes unnoticed.
I know it can sound a bit retarded at first, but just look at events today, parties, huge protests that have legitimately destabilized governments (Arab spring), all prove the power of social networks in mass mobilization of voluntary energy. If it could translate to production of goods, it becomes real interesting.

>>2580554
negation is not an argument
you say you are from france, all the big socialist parties there seem to have pretty clear and concrete objectives. you are quite literally nonsensical

>>2577845
>Wants to discuss
a blueprint for your ideal falanstere and fiverr with labor vouchers
when you can't organize a union and have little to no contact with actual politics
you are what marx stood against, and you have the brain of a child. you completely missed the point I was making because you are too dumb to talk about this stuff. no everyone can talk about socialism just like how not everyone can do math or whistle

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<inb4 abolition of private property, abolition of capitalism, abolition of alienation
>We can't actually base our objectives around these vagues goals though, or at least not at the current time and at the forefront. Abolition of private property doesn't mean anything if there's no framework to offer an alternative or to replace it. Marx laid us many goals but, given that he didn't specify what or how, shouldn't it be up to us to conceptualize the type of system which we want in accordance with the relevant theories he proposed.
We can and it has been done in the past. Revolutionary Spain and anarcho syndicalism provide the frame and goals on which this can be achieved. It just sounds like you have not read much theory.



File: 1764547563534.png (140.35 KB, 380x356, rigby.png)

 

Starting a *new* type of party. One where nothing but the working class programme is advanced, one independent of the bourgeoisie. I call this party the "Communist Party".

Can one imagine, a group with such a clear and uncompromising position?

< Without a strong organization skilled in waging political struggle under all circumstances and at all times, there can be no question of that systematic plan of action, illuminated by firm principles, and steadfastly carried out, which alone is worthy of the name of tactics.

Nah bro first we gotta defend our nation from the imperialists

nd we have to deal with those pesky ethnic and religious minorities who are a threat to our nation. The imperialists are using them as a fifth column. You are anti communist if you disagree with this



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>55.8% of the respondents say the Communist state itself was also good.

>66.2% of Romanians believe Communist leader Nicolae Ceaușescu was a "GOOD LEADER"


Any opinions?
8 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

Anticommunist sentiment is heavy in Romania, it's basically considered standard fact that Nicolae was an idiot and a horrible leader. People mostly associate communism with the heavy austerity measures he enacted to get rid of that imf debt. Still it's a mixed bag, younger people are inundated with 30 years of anti communist nationalist ruling ideology, but they're not stupid either they can tell things aren't much better now either and getting worse. For older people it's a mix of that, their personal experience under the system, nostalgia and things being different and/or better back then.

I watched this movie from Romania that goes kind of into that situation. "I'm an old communist hag", would recommend if you want to get a sense of the more positive/nostalgic aspects of Romanian's view towards the communist era. Romania has a lot of good movies in general

MLibs be posting this not knowing that the average age there is 60 and people tend to miss their youth

It only proves nationalist illusions about le glorious past they had under that socdem monarchy

>>2579947
>leftcom regurgitating unironic anticommunist counterarguments
no contradiction

>>2579947
>It's just nostalgia!! These things can only be explained by my essentialist pseudo psychoanalysis of boomers
Lol and you have the gall to call others libs

>>2579947
>Old who Lived under socialism:Its nostalgia
>young who has a positive view: you dont know your history
Also Ceaușescus popularity is in the youth as well to the point the Romanian government is clamping down on it. Look at this anti-commie burger get upset about some young university students saying positive things about the socialist period. These are supposed to be the most pro-EU



 

Doesn't the fact that CHINA has multiple STOCK exchanges, prove that its CAPITALIST? How do le elder scroll ones explain this? Even old turn of the century imperial germany was closer to socialism than modern day China.
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>>2580391
Notice how India's stock market has exploded in growth due to the financialization of its economy. Even India's public banks shifted to be be market driven due to IMF stipulations and they also deregulated interest rates.

Meanwhile, China's GDP rate of growth still grew in double digits at the same its stock market was stagnating. China's economy has far outpaced India's economy in size. 98% of finance is state-controlled in China. The loans and funding from China's state owned banks are coordinated through five year plans that shape industrial policy and set strategic direction, and they will also take reasonable losses to achieve social ends.

>>2580433
people tend to refer to chinas economic system as a "mixed economy" or "state capitalism", which is bullshit because all capitalism is state capitalism
thats the point he was trying to make

>>2580433
source?

Capitalism is good when China does it

Wonder if there's a movement in China to abolish the stock market



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im a socdem but a very left one ive read lots of marx and i agree w a lot of the economic ideas and i would be very naice to the communists can i pls stay
15 posts and 4 image replies omitted.

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>>2572569
gee i wonder who has betrayed the revolution again and again

>>2572572
khieu samphan is self-described demsoc

Only if you are brown and want to liberate the capitalists of your nation.

only if you make funny memes with cute anime girls on them

people are trolling you
dirty heckin libs are known to prowl this website so as a socdem youll be fine but expect people to shit all over your beliefs just like anyone else because they dont align perfectly with theirs, its still leftypol after all



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Neuigkeiten

<Unpünktlich wie die Eisenbahn; verspätet auf maroden Strecken zu hohen Preisen: DB-Konzern überbietet jedes Jahr seine Negativrekorde

https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/503080.versp%C3%A4tungen-bei-der-bahn-unp%C3%BCnktlich-wie-die-eisenbahn.html
<Rot gewinnt; Präsidentsschaftskandidatin in Chile ist von der KP
https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/503066.kommunisten-rot-gewinnt.html

<Gideon Levy über Massaker der israelischen Armee an Hungernden in Gaza

https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/503098.dokumentiert-gideon-levy-%C3%BCber-massaker-der-israelischen-armee-an-hungernden-in-gaza.html

<NATO-Manöver am Niederrhein: Kriegsvorbereitung statt Sicherheit

https://www.rf-news.de/2025/kw27/nato-manoever-am-niederrhein-kriegsvorbereitung-statt-sicherheit

<Parteitag der DKP

https://www.unsere-zeit.de/live-ticker-vom-26-parteitag-der-dkp/
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>>2580406
und lokales qwen oder deepseek sind keine produkte des kapitalismus?? auf welchen daten wurden denn diese "unzensierten" kis denn trainiert? auf den daten der kapitalistischen gesellschaft!

deine "tipps" sind absolut abgehoben und weltfern. du glaubst wirklich, jeder ist milliardär und computerwissenschaftler und kann einfach so seine eigene ki aufsetzen. abgesehen davon hast du keinen zugang zu aktuellen infos aus dem internet bei lokaler ki.

ich bin mir um die grenzen und fallstricke von online ki vollkommen bewusst. deswegen benutze ich wie ich bereits erwähnt habe, mehrere kis von komplett unterschiedlichen anbietern (inklusive dem leistungstärksten qwen modell, das man gewiss nicht lokal betreiben kann).

Kann der KI-Spasst, der glaubt ein dummes Sprachmodel, das nichts anderes macht als gestohlene Reddit- und Quora-Kommentare wiederzukauen, sei die Offenbarung Gottes einfach mal seine dümmliche Fresse halten?

Es wird langsam echt peinlich. Wie kann man nur so ein dummer Mensch sein?

>>2580420
>und lokales qwen oder deepseek sind keine produkte des kapitalismus??
Open source Modelle sind ein Produkt das Kapitalismus? Zudem gings mir darum, dass man sie wenigstens selbst ändern kann, im Gegensatz zu Produkten wie Gemini, ChatGPT, etc.

>auf welchen daten wurden denn diese "unzensierten" kis denn trainiert? auf den daten der kapitalistischen gesellschaft!

Das werden unweigerlich die mehrheitlichen Daten dieser Welt heute sein. Es geht mir eher um beabsichtigt implantiertes Bias und Schranken.

>du glaubst wirklich, jeder ist milliardär

Ich habe schon längst quantized Modelle vorgeschlagen.

>und computerwissenschaftler

Schau ein paar YouTube videos und ließ ein paar Artikel.

>abgesehen davon hast du keinen zugang zu aktuellen infos aus dem internet bei lokaler ki.

Verwende ein visual language model und eine library wie Playwright.
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>>2580446
>>2580455

es ist sinnlos diese diskussion fortzusetzen. ihr könnt über die großen ki dienste denken was ihr wollt. die tatsache ist, dass die großen ki dienste wie gemini, chatgpt, grok, qwen usw. von quasi der gesamten menschheit verwendet werden. diese technologie hat historische bedeutung und am ende spielt es keine rolle, dass ein paar nerds eine super basierte "unzensierte" ki auf ihrem heimcomputer aufgesetzt haben.

würdet ihr wirklich marxistisch denken, dann würdet ihr diesen trend, diese sozio-technologische entwicklung im weltmaßstab betrachten und nicht euch auf random leftypoler fokussieren.

ihr wisst, welche macht ki hat das bewusstsein der menschen zu formen. das habt ihr oft genug mir mitgeteilt. doch es ändert sich nichts, wen ln zwei, drei leute eure wunsch ki benutzen. ihr ignoriert die massen und das ist unmarxistisch.

>>2580446
>Kann der Crackspasti mal die Fresse halten?
>>2580476
>Tatsache ist, die Cracktechnologie hat historische Bedeutung. Welche Macht hat Crack, das Bewusstsein zu formen? Würdet ihr wirklich marxistisch denken, dann würdet ihr den Cracktrend, diese sozio-technologische Entwicklung, diese Weltmaßstabmassen an Crack, die ich rauche, nicht ignorieren.
🤔 Hmm ihr habt beide gute Argumente.



 

What is the point of horror when real life is infinitely more horrifying? Your average horror film is like watching the Teletubbies compared to a Mexican cartel torture/execution video. And I don't mean just the violence and suffering, I mean the casualness and banality. Or, to use another example, picture the scene of Roman mining slaves being literally worked to death because the profits of the mines were so large that human life became not worth maintaining, a level of greed that is perhaps unmatched even today.

Was horror unironically invented by sheltered people? What is the analysis?
10 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

File: 1764563430531.png (704.16 KB, 851x781, 1764561099592n.png)

AAAAHHHHH

Yeah bro going to work is fucking scary
Literal shivers down my spine

>>2579304
Horror’s point isn’t to be scarier than reality, it’s to let you safely feel the thrill of fear for a few hours because nobody wants to work in a fucking slave mine or have soldiers rape and murder their family just to feel scared


>>2579304
What's the point of any art or fiction when reality exists anon?
It is entertainment, it is escapism. Story telling has been a core part of human socialisation since the stone age.
Can you even begin to imagine a world where we're limited to only discussing or portraying the real world? It's not psychologically healthy to only think on heavy topics that happen in reality. But fiction can give us an adrenaline rush without the risk of such trauma.



 

>After destruction commences, the masses are going to emerge in all countries – in a short time, in a few hours. Capitalism cannot defend itself in an atomic war except by putting itself in caves and attempting to destroy all that it can. The masses, in contrast, are going to come out, will have to come out, because it is the only way to survive, defeating the enemy… The apparatus of capitalism, police, army, will not be able to resist… It will be necessary to organise the workers' power immediately

>One of the best-known positions of J. Posadas was his enthusiasm for nuclear war. More precisely, at the height of the Cold War, Posadas thought that nuclear war was inevitable. His idea was that rather than wait for the forces of capitalism, the nuclear-armed socialist states should launch a preemptive attack that would destroy the nuclear capabilities of capitalist countries. Additionally, he believed that this sort of catastrophe could spark the world revolution

Meds

>>2580089
Apparently Posadas never heard of radiation and nuclear winter

>>2580116
>radiation
cures CO2 pollution
>nuclear winter
reverses global warming

>>2580116
Most areas not directly hit by nukes would not have radiation levels high enough to be a direct threat beyond way higher cancer rates in the future, and most hit areas would go back to safer levels after 2 months. From his point of view nuclear winter would force the remaining humans to band together because they would be forced too in a post nuclear world for survival, because the only other option would be death. Though I don't understand how he thinks it would result in socialist communities forming after when I think things would just return to feudalism instead at that point.

>>2580089
Destroying the productive forces is something the capitalists do 🙄.
Communists support the development of the productive forces.



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Here is my thesis

When the USSR collapsed, its former territory and the entire former Warsaw Pact, treacherous scum that they were, should have been nuked. We live in a time where we still suffer the consequences of Soviet mercy. The USSR left our world, and in its wake was left dozens of fascist nations with hundreds of millions of Nazis buried within. The Soviet Union assumed 50 years of hegemonic rule wiped out the scourge that was hitlerism in the region but they failed; and Eastern E*roids seem beyond redemption. As such, lay waste to everything between Berlin and Moscow; nuke every square inch of it, luckily they have no real means to retaliate unlike the nuclear armed West. Modern hitlerism can be stopped in the here and now!

>>2579984
soviet union state welfare didn't do shit lmao

>>2579984
>Soviet mercy
lol lmao even

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>>2579984
EUchads gotchu covered

Its because the Slavs are ethnically reactionary. Specifically the Poles. The Oder-Neisse line was perhaps the greatest mistake of Stalin-era policy. All of Poland should have been partitioned between Belarus and Germany.

>>2579984
I warned you about nationalism bro but you didnt listen.
<what? you want me to support nationalist movements across the planet because anti-imperialism?
No thats exactly the opposite of what I said.
<got it. I will now dedicate yearsof my life shilling online for nationalism because its literally anti-imperialism



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