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File: 1763882158394.png (1.1 MB, 1292x1318, Screenshot 2025-11-23 at 2….png)

 

Can we talk about the new revelations about Noam Chomsky and Jeffrey Epstein?

>The prominent linguist and philosopher Noam Chomsky called it a “most valuable experience” to have maintained “regular contact” with Jeffrey Epstein, who by then had long been convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor, according to emails released earlier in November by US lawmakers.

>Such comments from Chomsky, or attributed to him, suggest his association with Epstein – who officials concluded killed himself in jail in 2019 while awaiting trial on federal sex-trafficking charges – went deeper than the occasional political and academic discussions the former had previously claimed to have with the latter.

>Chomsky, 96, had also reportedly acknowledged receiving about $270,000 from an account linked to Epstein while sorting the disbursement of common funds relating to the first of his two marriages, though the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor has insisted not “one penny” came directly from the infamous financier.

>The emails disclosed on 12 November by the Republican members of the US House oversight committee generally detailed the correspondence Epstein had with political, academic and business luminaries, including the Bill Clinton White House’s treasury secretary Larry Summers and Steve Bannon, the longtime ally of Donald Trump. Further, they reveal Epstein and Chomsky were close enough to discuss musical interests and even potential vacations.

>Perhaps the most telling of the Chomsky-related documents in question was a letter of support for Epstein attributed to Chomsky with the salutation “to whom it may concern”. It is not dated, but it contains a typed signature with Chomsky’s name and citing his position as a University of Arizona laureate professor, a role he began in 2017, as first reported by the Massachusetts news outlet WBUR.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/nov/22/noam-chomsky-jeffrey-epstein-ties-emails

A couple of things:
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Whatever respect I had for Chompsky vanished when he endorsed Biden.

>>2570854
Never trust an elite academic.

>>2571052
>I have no objective opinion of his linguistic system
I do and it's crap that held back the field by inertia of its "Great Man" association. The one good things LLMs did was clean shop of the useless theories in lingusitics.

>>2570854
I think it depends on how you see it.

Most likely approach is that Chomsky benefited somehow from the relationship. Either donations or networking (as proven). As such, hanging out and communicating with Epstein can be seen as “part of the job” rather than a personal relationship and approval of Epstein’s actions. In this case, overlooking his conviction is strategy, not approval.

On the other hand, we could assume a friendly relationship beyond mutual benefit. I find this unlikely. Men of their age, with such different interests would hardly become friends. Much less to the point of Chomsky approving Epstein’s deviant behaviors.

Another possibility is his wife Valeria pushed him towards Epstein for personal benefit, such as meeting Woody Allen.

His recommendation letter of Epstein is strange though. Not even his recommendation for Finkelstein was so flattery. We should keep in mind the possibility of it being written by AI

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>>2572475
should be samir amin instead of chomsky tbh, he collaborated with khieu samphan irl and knew some of the (future) CPK irl while they were in paris

>The analysis centers around the idea that underdevelopment is caused by colonial exploitation, which distorts the colony's economy so badly that it cannot develop. This theory of underdevelopment has been carried further by other Third World scholars, many of whom also studied in Paris during the 1950s and 1960s.
>In a recently published study, African [Egyptian] scholar Samir Amin, who studied with Khieu Samphan in Paris, explains why underdevelopment and mass poverty occur. Amin's thesis distinguishes between "central" and "peripheral" economies, which develop along entirely different paths.
>Khieu Samphan applies this theory to Cambodia, although its concepts were not completely formulated at the time he wrote.
<https://archive.org/details/IndochinaChronicle51-52Sept.-Nov.1976


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The biggest rebutal I see in the eyes of the average person to "socialism" and "communism" is that it's utopic, that it relies on bad assumptions, that it doesn't work in reality etc. In essence, that we're advocating for something that can't be and that we have no alternative to capitalism.
And, to that effect, what are we even advocating for ? It appears to me that we have a bunch of different movements with many different goals that don't actually ressemble one another. Yet, despite this, very few of these movements have actual "models", it just seems like they want to reform or do a revolution for the sake of action rather than purpose.
Shouldn't we concentrate on clear objectives and goals before having all this talk about how marxism-leninism-maoism-gonzalo thought is superior to cybernetic-trotskism-councilism in achieving [we run into the problem here]?

>inb4 abolition of private property, abolition of capitalism, abolition of alienation
We can't actually base our objectives around these vagues goals though, or at least not at the current time and at the forefront. Abolition of private property doesn't mean anything if there's no framework to offer an alternative or to replace it. Marx laid us many goals but, given that he didn't specify what or how, shouldn't it be up to us to conceptualize the type of system which we want in accordance with the relevant theories he proposed.

Apart from small intellectuals scattered everywhere (Cockshott, Schweickart etc), there seems to be an evident lack of clear model that actually adresses the critique of marx's ambitions and dismisses its apparent utopianism.

There is none because Marx decisively made sure to never leave a direct manifesto on what to do, it should be noted however he derided labor notes, value hours, and a bunch more stuff, how much of this was just critique or openly disownment is questionable, so you can vaguely estimate what Marx wanted, but he wouldn't care for it either, Marx like Nietzsche was about the process and less about any end goal because end goals are utopian in of themselves.

>>2573875
>mfw we're still fighting over what the bearded guy wanted almost 200 years later
>feelsbad.jpg

I'm not a communist anymore, all I know is that marxism is objectively the best ideology, more than that I don't care about le revolution that will come when I'm dead or too old to give a fuck.


File: 1763575180822.png (2.83 MB, 1536x1024, 6f7afaf0-e9a2-4b51-b487-64….png)

 

This thread is for the discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators sorted by last name

>Paul Cockshott
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>>2573818
BИЛЪЯM KOKШOT
is that Safranov in the middle?

>>2573818
>А.В.Сафронов – историк, экономист, кандидат экономических наук, ведущий канала «Простые числа».
so it seems. historian, economist, kandidat (roughly MSc I think), video (though it almost reads like Veduta's) channel prime numbers. and yeah he's on the Prime Numbers channel

>>2573828

Дикбласт must become ДикВласть. Αμήν.

What the hell did he mean by this? Is he /ourguy/ for real?

The so-called TRULY FREE MARKET


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Spartan society is unique and rare in slave societies through history. The majority of its society was made of slaves: 100 000 Helots, and only around 8000 Spartans. The question naturally arises: How comes the minority rule over the majority?

Humanity is facing a similar situation, power in the hands of a few thousands, yet billions of people can't free themselves. So the question remains: how comes the minority rule over the majority?

David Hume attempted to wisely answer such question:

"Nothing is more surprising to those, who consider human affairs with a philosophical eye, than to see the easiness with which the many are governed by the few; and to observe the implicit submission with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers.

When we enquire by what means this wonder is effected, we shall find, that as force is always on the side of the governed, the governors have nothing to support them but opinion. It is, therefore, on opinion only that government is founded."

As such, to change society masses to change opinion. It is, therefore, political education the most important task of the revolutionary.
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>>2564333
>Raw strength has limits. It is constrained by legitimacy

I'd say it isn't, it just so happens that those who hold power within the state also think highly of morals and values etc. but theoretically the state could do whatever the fuck it wants and it could get away with it

>As for ideology, I don't think people love the system. They just believe there's no other way

that might depend but it doesn't change the fact that thinking about criticism like that is still ideology and love for the system, this sort of theoretical attitude only accepts critique of anything if it has any proof of being succesful without actually considering its arguments (that's the reasoning behind the classic line "what's the alternative though?")

>>2547502
>The majority of its society was made of slaves
That was common i the ancient world. Sparta just had much more and the slaves were greeks.

The Roman proletariat lived at the expense of society, while modern society lives at the expense of the proletariat.

>>2557523
>organization, discipline
The German revolution had those and it still got crushed

>>2572527
Not enough numbers though


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I'm petite bourgeois that has seen my business increase in profits as conditions have gotten worse. (tech 2020-now). Are there any Marxist writing on this phenomenon?
6 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2573659
but the opposite is happening in tech in 2025

>>2573703
Not really, tech has been monopolizing for the past decade. Covid breathed some life into some small desktop support companies but there’s already a couple uber but for IT professional apps that have started popping up and tech itself is slowing becoming a blue collar field.

>>2573716
The point is that the tech petite bourgeois has grown in crisis not been absorbed by the bourgeois

>>2573771
Yeah and the more enterprising serf prospered during plague times. Sometimes crisis benefit the surviving lower classes who don’t have to compete with has many people. Cause they’re dead. So their SNL becomes higher.

I would like for the bubble to pop, encouraging a cleavage between day to day IT operations and the ""bleeding edge"" that was previously shovelled out by the mighty tech companies so that the lower to middle ranks of IT workers (the helpdesk, the minor admins, network techs etc) have a better shot at organizing.


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How do you reconcile that this revisionist is responsible for China being the only hope left for socialists? What does China‘s success change about Marxist thought?
189 posts and 56 image replies omitted.

>>2573080
Yes, this is invariant communist doctrine and (you) are a denier.
>the proletariat must first of all acquire political supremacy, must rise to be the leading class of the nation, must constitute itself the NATION, it is, so far, itself NATIONAL, though not in the bourgeois sense of the word.

>United action of the leading civilized countries at least is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.
Why is there no united action? People will blame the chinese proletariat for that.

>>2573170
Yeah, all these ultroid bordiggers suddenly become voluntarist when it comes to China. They are so inconsistent man. And they never elaborate.

>>2573080
> What would the late Marx say?
You tell us. Late marx wrote Capital, his critique of poiltical economy but as far as I know never rejected the content of the 1848 Manifesto

>>2573080
lol he gets even more explicit and economic determinist


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>Europoor

It's becoming increasingly clear that the majority of proles in Europe and North America are being brainwashed by their phones into believing immigration is the biggest issue in their countries. I have largely ignored this issue, as I don't really think it matters but then, last night, there was a lumpen riot in Dublin against an IPAS centre in which a foreign national who had been denied asylum and was told to "self-deport" had apparantly raped a 10 year old girl who was under state care. I usually don't believe a lot of the lies told about "migrants" online but this case makes me feel particularly uncomfortable.

It was a clear failure from the neoliberal Irish government and it's institutions that allowed something like this to happen. Why wasn't this man deported immediately after being denied asylum? Too expensive, apparently. Why was this man allowed to be in a situation where he could sexually abuse a child? Why is this man in my country in the first place? Ofc, the Free State institutions are keeping silent on it, pissing off people even more.

So, how do leftists feel about immigration and the current asylum process? Obviously, I understand this wouldn't be an issue if western corps weren't raping the third world but I also think there is a discussion to be had. Are open borders in the current world really working? Would they work post-capitalism? How do you feel about immigration, positively or negatively?
540 posts and 84 image replies omitted.

>>2573207
>let
Holy shit!

>>2573104
>marx and engels supported irish nationalism. if this contradicts your presuppositions, thats your problem.
And I explained why they did. It's not for the end point of maintaining the nation state, but for both weakening the English aristocracy, and opening up Ireland for agricultural, and thus later proletarian, revolution.
>marx says mass immigration lowers the moral and economic condition of the native working class, so to support mass immigration (by not regulating it) is to in fact support the cheapening of labour. mass immigration is a capitalist phenomenon, so normalising it shows that the interests of capital trump labour.
If I don't support criminalizing drug use, am I supporting the use of drugs? In no way am I supporting the cheapening of labour, as my program prevents the cheapening of labour, and I clarified Marx's position on this later on. There is no "normalizing" mass immigration, immigration simply is in capitalism, and given my interest is the emacipaction of labour, that interest is applicable to all labour. Wage labour is also a capitalist phenomenon, but am not normalizing it by understanding that people must work jobs.
>okay, so you dont believe in democracy.
I do not, no. Why would I? Revolution isn't a very democratic affair.
>can one company hire 8 billion people?
No, but why would it matter? If they can't hire 8 billion people, then they can't hire 8 billion people. It still doesn't negate the fact that organized labour prevents the reduction of wages. A proper labour struggle then takes the unhired, and also organizes them as part of the larger labour movement.
>of course not. you think 8 billion people can live in one city and have high wages. youre confused.
8 billion is an absurd number to begin with, but they can, or rather they can do away with the wage system in its entirety.
>cant find it. quote it for me.
Huh? It's multiple letters, I can't quote every letter after pg. 155. It starts with the letter calling the Fenian leadership asses and exploiters.
>>2573105
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2573207
>instead of supporting people organizing in their own country we should let they come in, work in semi-slavery conditions, depress local wages amd weaken labor movements because muh internationalism
This is a false dicotomy. We have no true control over the state, and if we did, we would just seize it to establish a DotP anyway, which makes this moot. Those people should organize in their own countries. We should also organize with those people that are here and are coming here. There is no alternative. The movement is only weakened if you turn prole on prole while the bourgeoisie work hand in hand, and wages are only arguably affected when migrants are denied rights and are able to be super-exploited. How can migrants depress wages if they are organized with the domestic worker? We aren't chauvinists, our goal isnt simply higher wages either, and Marx makes this point clear. The fight for wages is to put fire into the revolution, to make it clear that the proletariet has power, and that when reform inevitably fails, that revoltion is the path forward. I swear, most of you aren't marxists, you're embarassed Social democracts.

>>2573207
>should
You will never be a communist so long as your questions of the strategies of the international communist movement center on what the bourgeois state should or should not do to manage its crises

>>2573207
Go sit in the dunce chair. You failed that analysis.


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Thread №2

Переможный, переговорный, пятнадцатотравневый.

Продолжаем трястись и ждать мобку.
Лолируем с красных фашистов, пыняславов и чучхеисов - вместе.
Переезжаем в тюмень, так как там нефтяная мекка и все жрут черную икру поварешками.
Левый поворот путина будет… надо только подождать… еще лет двадцать.
277 posts and 59 image replies omitted.

>>2571450
Главное не Хрущева, а то станешь самым опасным оппортунистом - ревизионистом

File: 1764082086756.png (275.37 KB, 1200x936, ClipboardImage.png)

Guys, is this real?

>>2573205
yes

Привет, пиздюки

It seems that there really is no escape from Dickblast. I ain't even mad.


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Previous thread: >>2507158

Links:

Previous Thread Archives
Thread 1 https://archive.ph/ROnpO
Thread 2 https://archive.ph/f29Po
Thread 3 https://archive.ph/GZj20
Thread 4 https://archive.ph/ZHfse

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB1uqxcCESK6B1juh_wnKoxftZCcqA1go
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>2571906
>>You say here the ratios of abstract labor going into commodities is equal to their exchange ratios and equal to the labor-time input ratios
>theyre the same thing: Ax = By
Marx explicitly says it is the labor time in what you quote right after asserting this:
<We know the measure of its magnitude. It is labour time. The form, which stamps value as exchange-value, remains to be analysed.
>marx appears to say that value is an autonomous entity which is present even where it is unrecognised
Yeah he appears to say that because he is saying that.
>marx affirms that the "concept" of value did not exist in antiquity, so as to be socially realised:
The quote that follows is from his earlier scribblings not meant for publication and not from Capital. Why would you put much weight into that. Then you quote Capital:
<Aristotle therefore, himself, tells us what barred the way to his further analysis; it was the absence of any concept of value.
>https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch01.htm
Again, context. What is Marx saying just a few sentences after this:
<The secret of the expression of value, namely, that all kinds of labour are equal and equivalent, because, and so far as they are human labour in general, cannot be deciphered, until the notion of human equality has already acquired the fixity of a popular prejudice.
About Aristotle:
<What is that equal something, that common substance, which admits of the value of the beds being expressed by a house? Such a thing, in truth, cannot exist, says Aristotle (…) The peculiar conditions of the society in which he lived, alone prevented him from discovering what, “in truth,” was at the bottom of this equality.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

SmithAnon, you were responded to in the immigration thread.

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>>2572946
i responded 👍
>>2572384
>he openly contradicts himself constantly and posts things that are objectively false and when corrected ignores it.
any examples? 🥱
>>2572884
>I do not believe that Marx thought that value ratios are equal to exchange-value ratios.
whats the difference? 🤔
exchange-value is "value in exchange" (Ax=By)
>>2572406
unfortunately, there are no primary sources i can find from shimomuran himself, but from secondary sources, he's described as a keynesian, so your description makes sense. the mainstream view is that savings represent future spending and so the increase of savings is an increase in future value. this is true, but only so far as it concerns its marginal and total content. the individual saver benefits by saving, yet if everyone saved, the individual would suffer, since the economy would shrink and thus there would be less to save for. in keynesian terms, this often refers to the "paradox of thrift":
<Every such attempt to save more by reducing consumption will so affect incomes that the attempt necessarily defeats itself. 
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/keynes/general-theory/ch07.htm
we may then see keynes' view on the relationship between saving and investment:
>[i] Income = value of output = consumption + investment. [ii] Saving = income - consumption. [iii] Therefore saving = investment. [quantitatively]
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>>2573131
>>2573131
thank you for your opinion on shimomuran economics.
Also I recommend reading prince of yen, or other works by richard werner. Hes the primary scholar who studies shimomuran economics

>>2573131
>any examples?
just the hundreds in all the previous threads


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>be stalin
>fascism is on your doorstep
>uh oh, better go ask the west for an antifascist alliance!
>"FUCKING KILL YOURSELF JEW" or something along those lines is the response from the west
>wow okay uhm
>repeatedly beg the west for a pact against hitler
>nope times ten gorillion
>france and the UK sign non aggression pacts with hitler
>appeasement delimits where hitler can expand
>idea.jpg
>offer non aggression pact with hitler, delimit where he can expand
>hitler actually accepts
>delay the inevitable for an incredibly crucial two years
>7 years later, raise the red flag over berlin, huzzah hitler is gone
>"STALIN WAS AN EVIL FASCIST COLLABORATOR"
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>>2573156
This as well, if the French leadership wasn't full of mongrels then the Soviets could have mobilized and started a front in the East

>>2573408
>Fact is, the Soviets tried to ally with France and Britain to stop the Nazis and they rejected thus
When exactly did this happen? When did France and Britain stop negotiating?

File: 1764104284232.pdf (2.84 MB, 198x255, End of the 'Low, Dishonest….pdf)

>>2573668
All the time.

File: 1764104422032.mp4 (2.33 MB, 640x480, Motor Oil-Ribbentrop Pact.mp4)


>>2573712
The PDF only confirms that the British and French had negotiators in Moscow when Molotov-Ribbentrop was announced. Stalin simply decided that the Nazis were offering him a better deal and he took it


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