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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1764313297852.jpeg (Spoiler Image,42.16 KB, 533x800, IMG_1082.jpeg)

 

How can anyone think that Donald Trump is a Christian when all he is a Zionist bootlicker not just that he’s enforce the National Guard deported so many migrants friends with pedophile Jeffrey Epstein bombed boats in Venezuela he’s basically a war criminal but apparently he worked at McDonald’s. I’m loving it. That. Fat fuck

Christianity for most people is based aesthetics and not actually following the doctrine, cause if that was true they would all become vagabonds. Also no right winger believes Trump is a Christian they just like his policies.


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This thread is for the discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators sorted by last name

>Paul Cockshott
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
18 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2573818
>А.В.Сафронов – историк, экономист, кандидат экономических наук, ведущий канала «Простые числа».
so it seems. historian, economist, kandidat (roughly MSc I think), video (though it almost reads like Veduta's) channel prime numbers. and yeah he's on the Prime Numbers channel

>>2573828

Дикбласт must become ДикВласть. Αμήν.

What the hell did he mean by this? Is he /ourguy/ for real?

The so-called TRULY FREE MARKET

File: 1764313140448.png (3.51 KB, 531x354, hydraulic rationing model ….png)

Continuing with my abstract non-proposal from the last thread. I was thinking about a meta-procedure that combines an auction with something else.

Quoting this critique from myself:
>The fixed prices were introduced to deal with worries about raising prices. But to deal with that, it is enough to have a price ceiling.
What are the worries about raising prices really about though? If somebody snatches a thing right before your eyes, what good does it do to know you could have paid the price? It's better to have a guarantee that you can obtain a thing. So I have come to the conclusion that the part of the proposal that isn't an auction should not be something with a fixed price, nor something with a price ceiling, but simply something without any price. And since I got no idea how to combine the parts in an elegant fashion for now, we just do first the part without any prices and then the auction stuff.

Assume a given pile of classified and quantified resources, ready to be used up in the next period. After the central authority has set the Resource Access Power (RAP) of each pseudo-firm, the pseudo-firms should not yet have to participate in the resource auctions. Instead, the central authority sets aside a part of the pile for the pseudo-firms making requests in kind. The hydraulic diagram from a 2D world describes a situation of just three pseudo-firms. On the left, the blue liquid representing the resource sits in a tank that is closed at the bottom. If we let the resource flow, it will go through the pipe into the three vessels on the right and will reach equal level (and the air will escape from the vessels through the pipes they got on top). These three vessels represent the three pseudo-firms. The width of a pseudo-firm's vessel is proportional to its RAP, so these three are equal in that. The size of a pseudo-firm's request is represented by its vessel's volume (and since the diagram is in a 2D world, area = volume). A pseudo-firm exaggerating its request will make its vessel taller, but not wider.

(Maybe it would have been better to show two pseudo-firms in the diagram, one at half the RAP of the other, but I'm too lazy to edit it. Anyway, you should be able to picture what that would look like.)

Only after this procedure is through do we start with the auction stuff.


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How do you think American liberal politics will play out once Trump is no longer in power?

For the past 10 years, the entire crux of the Democratic Party has been "STOP TRUMP". The average American Democrat or liberal now bases their political views solely on how much they hate Trump, MAGAts, "manosphere" podcasters, so-called "alt-right pipelines", and everything in between. They have no real principles and it shows.

The right-wing, on the other hand, believes it is creating a new world; it's a much worse world, but that's how they want it. This has caused liberals to prop up the old, dying system as a way of preventing it from collapsing into something worse. Now, we're seeing liberals who claim to be "left-wing" embrace everything from free trade agreements (on the basis Trump's tariffs need to be stopped) to hyper-consumerism (on the basis that spending money on fashion and makeup and mindless consumer goods helps maintain your "individuality" against Trump-era conformity) to literal junk food (in order to own RFK and MAHA). It doesn't take much to realize all of these were once things American liberals strongly opposed 20-25 years ago; I'm old enough to remember when "clean girl" no-makeup aesthetics, eating organic, and herbal medicines were leftist things.

American liberals are now pushing a culture of hyper-rationality and order to counter the mass chaos that has erupted in America under Trump. They hate ICE agents terrorizing communities but they hate the sporadic community defence and protests that pop up to beat back ICE even more. They hate the Luigi Mangiones and the Tyler Robinsons and the prospects of an American Years of Lead. They want everything to be "rational" and based on slow progression and linear shit. But this way is outdated. Trying to find the "middle path" doesn't work when capitalism is in a state of collapse. For the liberal, everything that doesn't fit their paradigm is "mysticism" which always equates to "fascism" and needs to be stamped out before it manifests into authoritarianism. But how can this hyper-rationalism win?

The same is true of foreign policy. Liberals insist on American soft power, which arguably won't work in a world post-Gaza where American support for the most documented genocide in recent history was on full display. Trump, on the other hand, is an old school imperialist who simply seizes whatever he demands without caring.

So where does that leave the DemocraPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
96 posts and 9 image replies omitted.

I don’t think that there will be a strong liberal movement after Trump. The liberal base is practically all just demsocs except for boomers and unless you consider them to also be liberals then it’s pretty much over. Everyone is either a demsoc or a Nazi which is pretty bad because I don’t think that demsocs are the polor opposite of Nazis, I would consider the polor opposite of a demsoc to be an Eisenhower-style conservative and I would consider the polor opposite of Nazis to be Maoists, then again what would a Guevarist like me know? After all we all like to think we are in the center.

>>2526945
If the Dems could recover from the Vietnam debacle (Vietnam was a Dem project for most of America’s involvement) they can recover from the Gaza genocide
What they cannot recover from is their utter inability to improve anyone’s life in any way

>>2526850
>american liberalism after liberalism
Same old. Uniparty will continue to murder both americans and foreign victims of imperialism in the name of capital.

>How do you think American liberal politics will play out once Trump is no longer in power?
Those who aren't ready for socialism, particularly those not directly hit hard by the current repression, might just celebrate the 'victory' of Democrats (assuming they aren't overtly blocked from electoral power) and interpret it as the system working, validating their trust in US institutions, electoralism and the legal system. Honestly, a show-trial of Trump could kill a revolution.

But if socialists GTFO /leftypol/ and actually seize upon these grievances, they can inoculate people from liberalist claims of America working, if/when the Republicans face any roadblocks in the future.

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I used to think that the democrats were a good thing but now I think they crap


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🗽UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

<Happy Türkiye Day Edition

🏈 💵Thread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich and the pedophile Hitlerite-Zionist clique of the American bourgeoisie and its iron grip upon the greatest bigliest country McGod™ ever gave McMan™ on the face of the McEarth™🌭 🍔

>Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid.
<Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™

🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/

🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/oPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
629 posts and 127 image replies omitted.

>>2576240
So when I talked to a few people in the CPUSA (they'll remain nameless) you know I saw a few that were raised Catholic and wanted to grow up to be Priests or Nuns, like a few even went as far as doing the initial work to go to Seminary.

I think quite a lot of people get into politics, the more niche kind I suppose, because of some moral compunctions and strong feelings of right and wrong. However I think just as likely there are those who adopt politics as a kind of super-ego and dream of just decades of torturing and brutalizing everyone they dislike. Their order is taking too long at the restaurant and they imagine the possibility of putting the waiter in a concentration camp.

>>2576058
>why won't you share your emotions
<okay i feel like crap
>fuck you for making me deal with your emotions unpaid
lmao

>>2576244
fracking started at 1:1 EROEI IIRC. And shale deposits are kinda huge, so it's not likely that they'll deplete too much for a while. But it's only really gonna make sense for the US.

>>2576247
Of course the people in the "C"PUSA tried to join the most reactionary organization in the history of the world, the KKKatholiKKK Church. When that failed, they joined the second most reactionary organization, the "C"PUSA. If you think that you learn right and wrong from the Bible you are even more reactionary than I thought you were, and frankly I already think the only substantive difference between you and Goering is honesty.

BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270
BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270
BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270
BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270
BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270
BREAKING: BREAD >>2576270


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I was born into a whole lot of dominant groups in my society (95+% anglo suburb, never met an open queer person until 18yo, you get the picture).

Being in the intersection of socially-dominant groups, I suspect this affects the range of mainstream in-group politics, since there are plenty of people who want to conserve dominance, and since there is more social power there for propagandists to prey on.

Consider the White family Thanksgiving stereotype, with the racist unkkkle, the progressive/socialist niece, and everything in-between.
___

In minority groups, whether it be race, gender/sex, disability, certain jobs, religion, etc., is there more uniformity of politics? Or is it still common to see people spread out across progressive and reactionary positions?


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How do we resolve the paradox of reform and complacency?

Put simply,
>the vast majority in Western countries seem unmotivated to engage in political activity, beyond absolute trivial acts like voting or sharing opinions. This is assumed to be largely a result of complacency, despite the material issues caused by the current political systems.

>acceleration schools of thought may suggest intentionally worsening the conditions of regular people, assuming this will motivate them to focus on improving their conditions rather than tolerating the status quo. opponents will point out that making conditions worse makes it harder to organize and lessens people's ability to act effectively
>reformists may suggest improving conditions through political education and participation. however, opponents will point out that improving conditions through the system increases complacency without solving the root problem.
Where else do we go? Dual power? Selective reform?


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The biggest rebutal I see in the eyes of the average person to "socialism" and "communism" is that it's utopic, that it relies on bad assumptions, that it doesn't work in reality etc. In essence, that we're advocating for something that can't be and that we have no alternative to capitalism.
And, to that effect, what are we even advocating for ? It appears to me that we have a bunch of different movements with many different goals that don't actually ressemble one another. Yet, despite this, very few of these movements have actual "models", it just seems like they want to reform or do a revolution for the sake of action rather than purpose.
Shouldn't we concentrate on clear objectives and goals before having all this talk about how marxism-leninism-maoism-gonzalo thought is superior to cybernetic-trotskism-councilism in achieving [we run into the problem here]?

>inb4 abolition of private property, abolition of capitalism, abolition of alienation
We can't actually base our objectives around these vagues goals though, or at least not at the current time and at the forefront. Abolition of private property doesn't mean anything if there's no framework to offer an alternative or to replace it. Marx laid us many goals but, given that he didn't specify what or how, shouldn't it be up to us to conceptualize the type of system which we want in accordance with the relevant theories he proposed.

Apart from small intellectuals scattered everywhere (Cockshott, Schweickart etc), there seems to be an evident lack of clear model that actually adresses the critique of marx's ambitions and dismisses its apparent utopianism.
18 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

>>2575783
That was already observed by pre-Marxian economists. Marx's contribution is the theory of the proletarian dictatorship, what actually should be our goal.
>>2573868
>Apart from small intellectuals scattered everywhere (Cockshott, Schweickart etc), there seems to be an evident lack of clear model that actually adresses the critique of marx's ambitions and dismisses its apparent utopianism.
Have you read The Civil War in France? It's pretty clear what Marx thinks should be our immediate steps if we seize state power.

>>2575798
Wrong. The end goal is abolition of system of exploitation and to eliminate all exploiter classes

>>2575787
>>2575788
>bro you just don't understand we just need to go forward
>towards what ?
>no don't worry, just go forward

Unless you're an accelerationnist, you need to go towards something. You know this, right ?

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>>2573868
Again, I will post this for anyone who is confused about what communism and communists are according to scientific socialism:

<The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.

<The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.

<The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.
[…]
<The distinguishing feature of Communism is not the abolition of property generally, but the abolition of bourgeois property. But modern bourgeois private property is the final and most complete expression of the system of producing and appropriating products, that is based on class antagonisms, on the exploitation of the many by the few.

<In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.
[…]
<The average price of wage-labour is the minimum wage, i.e., that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the labourer in bare existence as a labourer. What, therefore, the wage-labourer appropriates by means of his labour, merely suffices to prolong and reproduce a bare existence. We by no means intend to abolish this personal appropriation of the products of laboPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


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Australian and Oceania politics general thread.

Link dump:
https://www.greenleft.org.au
https://www.auscp.org.au/militant-monthly
https://solidarity.net.au
https://redflag.org.au
https://marxistleftreview.org/?topic=australia
https://www.michaelwest.com.au
https://overland.org.au
https://arena.org.au
https://www.themonthly.com.au
https://www.crikey.com.au
https://www.redblacknotes.com
https://www.surplusvalue.org.au/McQueen/index.htm
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
197 posts and 75 image replies omitted.

>>2574299
>it's real
society of the spectacle

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I know, it's reddit slop, but can't help laughing.

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>>2574299
IMAGINE

A DYSTOPIAN FUTURE IN WHICH ANTHONY ALBINOSE

BECOMES

PRIME MINISTAH

File: 1764245711376.png (10.9 KB, 86x84, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2574299
god i want her to origami my cock

>>2552699
The west should be collectively grateful that Lukashenko is only in charge of Belarus. If that Union State proposal went through back in the 90s with him as president we would be living in a very different timeline right now.


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Previous thread: >>1950708
PARTIES:
>https://communist-party.ca/
>https://cpcml.ca/
>https://www.marxist.ca/
Fuck flood detection
>https://ncpc-npcc.ca/
>https://www.democraticsocialists.ca/
>https://iww.ca/
>https://socialistaction.ca/

NEWS:
>https://pvonline.ca/
>https://springmag.ca/
>https://canadiandimension.com/
117 posts and 46 image replies omitted.

>>2512418
McPherson will likely win.

I hope Alberta UCP MLA’s get recalled.


https://actionnetwork.org/events/urgentbriefing
https://armsembargonow.ca/nomoreloopholes/

Canada is still sending weapons to israel, to the surprise of no one. Time to bully your mp

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>>2565980
Why are Canadian conservatives so committed to bootlicking ? They aren’t even nationalists like old conservatives


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🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷 Aux armes, citoyens ! 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
I noticed there is no thread for France related shit. So let this be one. French people deserve a safe space and guarantees for their continued existence on loser imageboards!
J'ai remarqué qu'il n'y a pas de thread dedié pour la France, alors que les salauds américains et anglais en ont des centaines. Français, ne succombez pas à l'impérialisme anglochiotte!

Subjets of Macronpiter, leave a post.
446 posts and 83 image replies omitted.

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POV: the local RRCF guy just pulled up at your melanchonist riot

>>2573637
They didn't accept american bases

>>2573637
We don't, it's a meme. Reactoids hate the french

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>>2575950
Un vil tankie qui veut la bite de Poutine dans sa bouche.
Le communisme n'est possible qu'en défendant l'Ukraine et Taïwan de toutes nos forces contre les offensives réactionnaires impérialistes et bourgeoises.
Rejoignez le NPA.


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