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 No.1831170[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Maoism vs Dengism

Which proved superior?

Why do some leftists credit Deng for the rapid development of China, a principally liberal view of Chinese history.
240 posts and 37 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


You had me until the last sentence. Mao did do class collaborationism but was the one important person opposed to kmt cooperation


Someone has to explain to me why Maoism v Dengism creates such a shitstorm on this board.


Because most people here have no idea what they are talking about but "strong opinions"


Maoist = theorist puritans that move the goalpost constantly because they don't want to do the hard thing and defend North Korea or China. Also are controlled opposition.
Dengist = produce material victories which makes glowies/defeatists mad.

So it's the same argument of tankies vs anarchists but more modern since anarchists are pretty much recognize as fantasyland morons while Maoists at least can point towards a handful of people running around a jungle in the Philippines and say it's working. Maoists pretty much just say shit isn't happening as fast as they'd like it. It's kind of ironic because Mao wrote "Oppose Book Worship," but you'll constantly see them cite books from an entirely different time as the concrete rule for achieving communism.


There's been a tension on the radical left for 150 years between productivists who want to ape capitalist development via the state with the expectation that communism will follow, and those who want to establish communist relations now regardless of how developed the productive forces are.

The expectations of the productivists have so far failed to materialize, which is why we're still arguing about it.

 No.1852563[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

>Marxist political economy concerns itself variously with the analysis of crisis in capitalism, the role and distribution of the surplus product and surplus value in various types of economic systems, the nature and origin of economic value, the impact of class and class struggle on economic and political processes, and the process of economic evolution.

Related topics such as finance/business, etc. also welcome

related threads:
>>213072 /crisis/ General (monitoring the market, trends, fluctuations, etc.)
>>1852043 / CYBERCOM / (discussion of cybercommunism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means)
207 posts and 39 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


I didn't say you were reading the bible into Marx, I said you were reading Marx like a Bible.


So are you saying you read Grundrisse before Capital? What is then one of those mistakes you hypothetically would have made if you had tackled Capital without Grundrisse?


>I didn't say you were reading the bible into Marx, I said you were reading Marx like a Bible.
Except you did:
>Anyone who reads the Bible into Marx is only trying to save their ability to tell others what to do and have society back them up unquestioningly.


Are you identifying as "anyone"?


Okay so i found the source of my discrepancy. Its in the 1st preface of capital vol. 2 where it speaks about "surplus-labour" creating surplus-value, where surplus is defined as the labour unpaid as wages. In the introduction engels also prefaces the point that it is not labour itself which creates Value(s), but labour-power that is employed by the capitalist.
So "socially unnecessary labour-time" can be rendered as "surplus-labour".
Also, here's some context for my claim that SNLT *is* Value in its meaningful (socially-realised) sense.
[Labour-Power = Value = SNLT]
[Surplus-Labour = Surplus-Value]
>It has been correctly formulated by Marx and thereby been answered. It is not labour which has a value. As an activity which creates values it can no more have any special value than gravity can have any special weight, heat any special temperature, electricity any special strength of current. It is not labour which is bought and sold as a commodity, but labour-power. As soon as labour-power becomes a commodity, its value is determined by the labour embodied in this commodity as a social product. This value is equal to the labour socially necessary for the production and reproduction of this commodity. Hence the purchase and sale of labour-power on the basis of its value thus defined does not at all contradict the economic law of value.
This is also why i say that marx is not a thinker of the LTV, but is a thinker of the labour-power theory of Value. The difference between smith and marx is the discovery of surplus-value as surplus-labour, which is capital (as unliving labour) itself.


The Reactionary Mind by Corey Robin
This book, along with, Hofstadter's "anti intellectualism in american life" should be required reading, although the Hofstadter's works suffer from a myopic (american liberal) perspective.

This book is one of the most enlightening I've ever read.
>Robin goes through the history of conservatism starting with Edmund Burke and argues that traditional definitions of conservatism as an attempt to preserve some kind of tradition are inadequate. He cites passages from Burke and Joseph de Maistre which criticize the old order for being decadent and needing to be recreated. Thomas Hobbes's social contract is given as a conservative solution to a new order which is able to preserve itself under threat. Robin argues that in the modern era conservatives are often more concerned about preserving power in the private sphere, which finds struggles against causes such as labor movements and feminism.

Essentially he traces the history of conservatism from the French revolution onwards. It really has completely changed the way I engage with reactionary and rightoid arguments.

 No.1857980[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

The fundamental leftist critique of religion is that religion lulls the masses into complacency with promises of a better life in Heaven and an assurance that the Earthly order is ordained by Providence and, on the flip side, recognition of the falsehood of religious belief will cause the masses to undergo a radical re-evaluation of the world, the way it is organized, and their relationship with their fellow man. But here in 2024, and in the Western world, is this still relevant?

Let's look at the first claim. Is the largest or even significant ideology keeping the masses in line the promise of a better life in Heaven? Do the actively religious actually believe that the world order as it is established now is the product of divine providence? I would say that obviously this is not the case and hasn't been for a while. What subdues the masses can vary from country to country, but at least in America (and increasingly around the world) it is not the promise of Heaven that motivates the masses to stay in line, but the promise of earthly reward. The "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" attitude has long been an aspect of the American ideology, but I would argue that it has moreso and moreso taken on the religious aspect of maintaining social compliance. First you had Horatio Alger stories which generally portrayed a "rags-to-riches" narrative based on young men engaged in some kind form of good works to rise above the poverty while benefiting their community, which then turned to Ayn Rand's stories which rejected outright any greater social responsibility of the industrialist tycoon, instead portraying them as pseudo-divine "Great Man" figures for which all the industry and wealth of the world was merely an extension of their great personalities and any attempt to direct or interrupt their great works was to invite disaster upon the world, for the world needs the entrepreneur, the entrepreneur does not need the world. This is further developed by the "self-help" movement that began to take off in the 70s, where often men of wealth would give advice on how to get rich to the masses, but this "advice" was almost never about making shrewd business decisions or actual ways of acquiring capital and business deals, but a litany of all the supposed morals and examples of virtuous living the wealthy supposedly possessed. And then, finally, to top it off we have "The Secret," a bestselling novel which posited that it is not simply being a great personality aPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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No, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. According to this worldview, God isn't a symbol, he's a person, but a person who lives in your head. In fact, he lives in the heads of all humanity and influences our behavior.

In the book Children of Dune, one of the characters explores their genetic memory and meets a bunch of their ancestors who live in their genetic memory and winds up getting possessed by one of them. It's kind of like that except you have multiple personalities and they don't live in genetic memory, they live in your unconscious mind. To my knowledge, that is what Peterson and the other Jungians believe. Peterson believes in God as a real person, not just a symbol, but a real person who is essentially a psychological phenomenon that resides in the collective unconscious, not as an actual omnipotent creator or great cosmic spirit.


>You won't find a sane archaeologist or anthropologist today who'd support it and it contradicts blah blah
Show me some examples contrary to historical materialism plox.


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Fascists ultimately believe in standing apart from and rejecting nature, however selectively and conveniently. Even in Darwinism they seek only to emulate it and reform it.

Peterson is, of course, engaging in reification, and (like all worldbuilders) constructing "reality" solipsistically.


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if ur not anti religious ur not a scientific socialist, ur a social-pacifist liberast




Just pick up any beginner level textbook on anthropology or history. Marx puts forward an evolutionist stage theory of history e.g. primitive communism -> ancient -> feudal -> capitalist etc. The vast majority of modern anthropologists, historians, and archaeologists reject evolutionist models of human history and the idea of progress

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 No.213072[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

💰️DOW/Market Watch Thread💰️
monitoring the market, trends, fluctuations, etc.
495 posts and 130 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


Well he would probably claim this price drop is due to sneaky wall street insiders tanking the price after hours. But I dunno. It's still $5 higher than it was 2 weeks ago anyways.


He reported here when it was like double that


File: 1716312966608-0.jpeg (8.56 KB, 238x212, brinjal.jpeg)

Decide, anons!

Brinjal Vs. toomatoo?'


File: 1716315657803.png (574.89 KB, 3639x1032, After Hours.png)

>He came to spam his bullshit luring people in, he made money for the millionaires and the gamestop insiders and then he forgottten about it.

Lol, been holding for 3.5 years man; haven't sold a single share.

>Well he would probably claim this price drop is due to sneaky wall street insiders tanking the price after hours. But I dunno. It's still $5 higher than it was 2 weeks ago anyways.

I mean, yeah? Seriously are y'all so obsessed with vibes you can't just look at a chart and see major price fluctuations occurring after hours? Pic related. Shit you even have my post here, too: >>1856556

I mean this is just further proof that the people whining about shilling or that I'm wrong just want me to be wrong, and they're so intent on "proving" it they're devolving to:

>"You really think Hedge Funds would do that? Just manipulate the price?"

Honestly it's just proof positive that people mistake "materialism" for just blind cynicism. Yeah if you're cynical you'll be right more often than you're wrong, but it's led people on here to go to absolutely silly lengths to claim I'm wrong. Shit, when I pointed out that GameStop's own board keeps buying shares (which only means they expect the stock price to go up) or that Ryan Cohen is paid depending on stock performance, I'll get
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Complete tomato annihilation can't come soon enough!

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 No.1844601[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Is Tribalism, ethnocentrism, and preference for ones own people, religion, and culture inevitable? And if so, doesn't this hurt the universalism of communism? Is homophily just "human nature" and built into the hunter gatherer id of humans?

>Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small hunter-gatherer groups, as opposed to in larger and more recently settled agricultural societies or civilizations. With a negative connotation and in a political context, tribalism can also mean discriminatory behavior or attitudes towards out-groups, based on in-group loyalty.
152 posts and 26 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


how is preferring your own people racist?
it is pretty normal to care for ones own ingroups first. your family should come before your neighbours and your compatriots should come before the rest of the world.
if there was a revolution in italy tomorrow you wouldn't go live in paradise and leave your people to the clutches of the bourgeoisie, no you'd stay and be or support the vanguards of your home to achieve the same.


pretty simple yeah. its us lot(humans) versus nature and maybe aliens if we ever find them. that's all the tribalism u need


Some pigskin yankee thinking a fucking German is more “their own people” than a fellow black yankee can only come about through racism
>Well the German is a fellow pigskin so even though they have a different culture, language, government, history, political system, and economy than me, and although I may even know many black people IRL, I’m more similar to a kraut I only share a skin color with than a black man I share my entire national culture, history, and language with
It’s racist nonsense


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>Is Tribalism, ethnocentrism, and preference for ones own people, religion, and culture inevitable?
No, to be quick and quaint, cultures, religions, and classes (peoples) are all reflections the mode of production that society has. As the mode of production changes so do each of those. Religion is quickly changed to suite the new. Cultures are created or changed to reflect the new. And new classes emerge, with the dominant one playing a role in fostering the new society.


this, same goes the other way too even tho panafricanism does allow for a degree of real black internationalism it comes from a political conviction. in the same way an argentine and turkish communist would get along on the basis of politics often better than they can with others from their own country, a panafricanist from mississippi and one from nigeria can do the same with regards to their shared political position, but lots of black americans think of africans as starving spearchuckers and lots of africans think of black americans as degenerate slave-stock, and you see that kind of tension wherever african immigrant communities overlap with black americans

where it becomes "complicated" is that despite white and black americans both having far more in common with eachother, a huge part of american identity is tied to racialization, implicitly or otherwise, whether its overt racism or liberal whitewashed idealization of the civil rights movement

DuBois: "Most persons do not realize how far [the view that common oppression would create interracial solidarity] failed to work in the South, and it failed to work because the theory of race was supplemented by a carefully planned and slowly evolved method, which drove such a wedge between the white and black workers that there probably are not today in the world two groups of workers with practically identical interests who hate and fear each other so deeply and persistently and who are kept so far apart that neither sees anything of common interest."

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 No.1856861[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

What do you guys think of the phenomenon of foreigners (mainly we*terners) joining armed guerrillas against other State agents or Irregular groups? YPG\pershmega against the ISIS\Daesh, the stuff that happened in the Donbbas\Novorussia conflict (pre-war).
is it just a form of adventurism or extreme tourism, a thrill-seeking bourgeoisie vice? Actually heroic and worthwhile?
145 posts and 23 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


Falling for turknat propaganda isn't really "vindicating" old BO, outside of showing how absolutely fucking stupid you are.


>Iraqi Kurdistan is the same as the AANES
You must've been fun in Geography Class
>kurds genocide assyrisns
The KRG does, which, mind you- the PKK and YPG are currently fighting against.

Seriously, read a fucking book, fuckwit.


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File: 1716288522802-1.png (130.5 KB, 800x800, ClipboardImage.png)

Based, long live international solidarity. International Brigades, then, today, tomorrow!


Better than swallowing anti-Assad propaganda


>r-read my state propganda or else your argument is invalid!


WikiLeaks founder Assange wins right to appeal against an extradition order to the US
High Court judges Victoria Sharp and Jeremy Johnson ruled for Assange after his lawyers argued that the U.S. government provided “blatantly inadequate” assurances that he would have the same free speech protections as an American citizen if extradited from Britain.

Labour looking at new Corbyn sanction
LABOUR is looking at expelling Jeremy Corbyn from the party altogether for accepting a donation from a grassroots campaign. Mr Corbyn remains a party member, although he has been denied the parliamentary whip since 2020 and banned by leader Sir Keir Starmer from standing again as a Labour candidate.

Rwanda denies entry to senior human rights researcher
The Rwandan government has barred a senior human rights researcher from entering the country, prompting accusations that officials are seeking to dodge independent scrutiny just weeks before the UK government is due to send asylum seekers there for the first time.

RSF recaptures North Kordofan town
The Rapid Support Forces (RSF) said it seized control of Um Rawaba, North Kordofan, yesterday. Residents report multiple attacks by the RSF and allied armed groups on surrounding villages, which have led to scores of deaths, injuries, and extensive property damage. The RSF denies involvement, attributing the violence to their rival, the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF), and remnants of the former regime.
htPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


Major agricultural firm sues California over farmworker unionization law
The action by the Wonderful Co. comes as it battles the United Farm Workers over a newly formed UFW local of 640 workers at one of its businesses. The $6 billion company founded by Stewart and Lynda Resnick, who have donated to President Joe Biden and Newsom, makes a host of products recognizable to most grocery store shoppers, including Halos mandarin oranges, Wonderful Pistachios, POM Wonderful pomegranate juice and Fiji Water brands.

REI Union Chicago members walk off the job during Anniversary Sale to protest contract negotiations
Members of REI Union Chicago walked off the job in the middle of REI's Anniversary Sale to protest after the company reportedly failed to negotiate a contract in good faith. The protest was held Saturday morning and those in attendance included union members, elected officials and other leaders/workers from the Chicago area.

New York police violently arrest pro-Palestine protesters marking Nakba
Police have beaten and arrested several demonstrators at a pro-Palestine protest in New York’s Brooklyn in the latest crackdown on voices speaking against the war on Gaza in the United States. Protesters gathered on Saturday in the Bay Ridge neighbourhood in southwest Brooklyn, home to a large Muslim community, including people of Palestinian and Yemeni origins.

UPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


Statement of the Tudeh Party of Iran: Death of a criminal and the Iranian regime’s attempt to control the situation in the country
The death of Ebrahim Raisi, the executioner, one of the main partners in crime of the theocratic regime of Iran, someone who was being groomed by some powerful circles within the Islamic Republic’s regime to succeed Ali Khamenei, is a blow to the regime’s plans to control the extremely critical situation in the country, particularly in the context of the critical and dangerous situation in the region. Khamenei’s remarks last night in a meeting with “a group of families of the IRGC members” saying that “the nation should not be worried and concerned, there will be no disruption in running the country,” indicate the concerns of the regime’s leaders in the current very critical situation. The only regret of the people of Iran and the families of the survivors of the horrific crimes committed by the mercenaries of reaction and tyranny, over the death of Ebrahim Raisi, is that the opportunity for his historic trial in the not-too-distant future has been lost.

Macron’s war economy, or producing to the sound of cannons
We translated this text by dear comrades from France on the current process of militarisation under the Macron government. In the UK both Tories and Labour compete over who can inflate the military budget more efficiently. We encourage you to read the 15 theses on a new anti-imperialism by comrades from Germany for wider context. War was an indispensable part of capitalist development, before having become one of its diseases [1]. In its prime, it was still a question of exporting European antagonisms to other continents. In quick succession, two world wars brought it back to the heart of the old historic centre and brought the cycle full circle. Are we on the verge of a new one? Several recent events bear witness to sharp tensions between imperialist powers. However, the Cold War is definitely behind us and it would be risky to draw up a pre-fixed scenPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


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>WikiLeaks founder Assange wins right to appeal against an extradition order to the US
big if true


Even if he wins on this 1st amendment point he can still be extradited for hacking unless the US drop it.

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 No.1859884[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Ebrahim Raisi was essentially a clout martyr.

Everyone is claiming this was a random helicopter crash, but it's clear what was actually happening: his killers were driven to take his life solely for the sake of clout. They wanted infamy of their own and found it in shooting down a 63-year old.

As Raisi was taking his final breath, he was surrounded by kids taking video and pictures of him. Why? For clout. No one was taking his pulse, no one was calling the Red Crescent, everyone was standing around with their phones out as his body was clinging to life.

The moral lesson of Raisi's life story should be a cautionary tale of the horrors of social media and how it's fucked our society beyond belief.

RIP Eb. See you in Jannah…
184 posts and 27 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


>Ebrahim Raisi (then Deputy Prosecutor General) was a member of the administration of the executions and one of the "four-man commission", later known as the 'death committee' during the mass executions of communists and leftists in 1988.

>Ebrahim Raisi went on to campaign for president of Iran in 2017 as a hard-line conservative where he was criticized for his role in the executions, before being elected as president on his second try in 2021. His role earned Raisi, like Sadegh Khalkhali before him, the reputation of being a "hanging judge".


Jannies removed my thread while keeping this meme one.
I fucking hate those chauvinist libs so much



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>If the capitalists saw this hypothetical DotP as a useful ally against their capitalist rivals they wouldn't be hostile


First poster got the joke.

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 No.1662769[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

8th Edition: Failson squad assemble!edition.

Discuss anything on Southeast Asian politics. Coming 2024 Elections, open orgs, People that should be dead for different reasons running in Malaysia's elections or just random shit. There are still dozens of us… hopefully! South Asia and Oceania posters can come in to discuss their regional politics as well.

Matrix room: https://matrix.to/#/#!YeYeuZuLSYkegWssey:matrix.org

Last threads:
269 posts and 124 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


The US is starting to flip out about the ongoing shakeup of the gov. They wouldn’t care if it didn’t mean a shift towards friendlier terms with China.



What happened? Explain for english only speaking dummies like me


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Basically this comes back to the privatization of construction way back in the 90s. A lot of the major building SOEs got broken apart and became real estate tycoons of the modern day. To gain more contracts they rely heavily on cronyism with public officials. However these companies basically met a hard stop during the current real estate crash (since their model is essentially skimming without building anything). These corporations are being purged and with it the officials that vouched for them. To Lam will be next since he's essentially vietnamese beria.


Good news i hope.

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