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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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hello everyone!

-how are socialists organizing in your country?
-do you recognize a political party as more coherent and in its political line and characterization of the country's particular material conditions? a link towards a newspaper/social media page/whatever is appreciated
-do they have support within the working class?
-do you think there is a particular strand of socialism in your country that is hurting the revolutionary process?
-what do you think they lack in their assessments and strategies?

on argentina:
-poorly. the broad of the working class either a) supports milei, b) is nostalgic for peronism, c) is indifferent and/or despairing. there are some attempts at unified action, but socialism still remains a small minority and (sadly) some groups are betting on a popular front with social democrats (ignoring they are guilty for this social and economical mess, and now that they lost popular support we need to take this chance to build a better alternative)
-razon y revolucion - via socialista (reason and revolution - socialist way). they started as a small academic group and are now building a vanguard party proper. theyve been studying argentine history and economics for decades and consequently building a party program fit for our country
-no lol. they are small group which mistakenly hedged its bets on trying to work with the trotskyist parties front but after being expelled from it and seeing how trotskyism is progressively degenerating into electoralism understood that building an independent party is best for the movement. one of the leading figures has experience as a trade union leader though
-most of them tbf. maoists and stalinists are inside bourgeois electoral fronts (muh national bourgeois), trotskyists are both lost in liberal postmodernist and on personal disputes over who leads the election ballot and guevarists are either dead after the 70s repression or shunning elections altogether
-the party i mentioned is, as i see it, not focused enough in trying to win personal sympathies. this could help us recruit activists and make the party and its program better known. its repeating its academia habits, too lost in technocracy and producing media content, not enoughPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
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Another chinlet lapdog identical to the current one. I believe he was the only Latin leader to send troops during the invasion of Iraq. Ironic since he was an Arab.


lol, i hope the volcanoes erupt and wipe out the that shit excuse of a cuntry. place gave me diarrhea


The people's genocide. Real praxis hours


>The people's genocide.


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>-how are socialists organizing in your country?
A few small portest camps, squat crews and anti-fascist actions here and there but nothing major
>-do they have support within the working class?
Depends on the region, but the populace as a whole is indifferent
>-do you think there is a particular strand of socialism in your country that is hurting the revolutionary process?
LARPing trotskyists pretending it's 1908
>-what do you think they lack in their assessments and strategies?
The desire to form a united front with other socialists and anarchists instead of being small, insular microparties.

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Hello, ask a Kashmiri leftist who lives in Kashmir anything from culture to politics and history of socialism in kashmir
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that guy is retarded. he thinks tsarist Russia was socialist. Atlantis was real.


Don't project


Looks like i have talked to all the different 20 posters here on this site
I'll back in a few days


goodbye have fun <3


I lost two cousins in Kashmir both Hizb ul Mujahideen volunteers small world desu

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Can we have a thread about socialist and related football firms?
Of course we can.

>Inb4: 357 posts about St. Pauli

Anything goes but the less obvious would be great.
Some background info very welcome too.

Pic related: Resistência Coral, Ultras from Fortaleza, supporters of Ferroviário Atlético Clube. The club was founded by railway workers in the early 1930's and has been, ever since, tightly connected to the working class.
The banner in the first image translates to "No war among firms, no peace between classes"
Trivia: one of the club's nicknames is "the proletarian".
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your still one of the best read posters on this site


Aw thanks. I've read a decent amount of like the classics but I'm worried I don't understand it all. Especially Capital, which I'm really struggling to get through volume 2 of.


>I'm worried I don't understand it all
You should not worry. It is normal.


You guys should check out the eternal rivalry of Red Star and Partizan


St. Pauli back in the Bundesliga


Whistleblowers detail horrific abuse of Palestinians held in Israel’s Sde Teiman detention camp: report
The sources detailed how the camp is split into two areas: some men are held in a large pen, where they are permanently blindfolded in stress positions with hands zip-tied. The wounded are kept in a "field hospital" where their arms and limbs are strapped to beds and they are naked, other than wearing diapers, and fed through straws.

War on Gaza: Israel kills UN aid worker in Gaza's Rafah, say local authorities
The Palestinian government media office in Gaza said both people hit in the attack were foreigners. Local media said the person killed was a Palestinian driver and the wounded worker was a foreigner.

Iran's religious hardliners win most seats in election run-offs
Without sharing details of the turnout, the result — and that of the previous vote in March — gives the hardliners 233 of the parliamentary 290 seats. Religious hardliners seek more cultural and social restrictions based on Islamic sharia law, including demanding that women wear the veil in public.

Masked Tunisian police arrest prominent lawyer for media comments
The arrest of lawyer and commentator Sonia Dahmani on Saturday night was caught on camera as she was bundled out of the Lawyers’ House, part of the legal union, where she had been sheltering.
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The DNC Is Preparing for the Worst in Chicago — Without the Help of the City’s Mayor
That would mean in-person speeches from the president, party luminaries and rising stars to draw television attention alongside a mix of pre-recorded testimonials and videos from other parts of the country. The goal: drive maximum viewership on television and the internet while minimizing live programming and openings for protest in Chicago’s United Center. This would mean moving party business, such as rules and platform votes, off the floor and denying would-be demonstrators a chance to seize on contentious debates.

Massachusetts takes Uber, Lyft to trial over whether drivers are employees
Assistant Attorney General Douglas Martland in his opening statement said the companies' algorithms, pricing policies and operating standards gave them a level of control over their drivers that belied any claim that they work independently.

13% of 2020 Swing State Biden Voters Won't Be in 2024 Because of Gaza: Polls
The figure comes as part of a new set of polls released Monday from The New York Times, Siena College, and The Philadelphia Inquirer that show former President Donald Trump narrowly leading Biden in 5 out of 6 crucial battleground states. "We have warned that this would happen for months, and the Democratic Party didn't give a damn," author and organizer Daniel Denvir wrote on social media in response to the news.

Stress, confusion and uncertainty as borrowers navigate Biden debt relief plans
“There is a firehose of announcements and new programs and so manyPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


Right-winger Elphicke’s defection reveals the ugly face of Starmer’s Labour
NATALIE ELPHICKE’S political reincarnation as a Labour MP is an event that sheds an unforgiving light on Keir Starmer’s Labour Party. Ms Elphicke, the MP for Dover and Deal, is no “one nation” Tory repelled by the consequences of Conservative policy. Rather, she has sat on the right-wing edge of the Conservative Party in parliament. She has made her name as an anti-migrant hardliner, until recently attacking Labour for being “too soft” on the issue. She inherited her Commons seat from her ex-husband Charlie Elphicke after he was charged and then imprisoned for sexual offences. She appeared to blame the victims for her then-husband’s behaviour. She was then sanctioned by the House of Commons for attempting to put pressure on the judge presiding over Charlie’s case. She further distinguished herself by abusing England footballer Marcus Rashford over this work to tackle the food poverty for children which has been one deplorable consequence of Tory economic and social policy. In short, there is nothing whatever to suggest that Labour’s newest MP shares the values of the labour movement, or even of liberal Britain.

In Romania, Slot Machines Profit From Ex-Miners’ Misery
In Romania’s Jiu Valley, once-mighty industrial complexes are today reduced to ruins. If some buildings were demolished with the closing of the mines, other structures were left to the elements — and to destitute human beings scavenging for scrap metal. Not only are job opportunities scarce, but the streets themselves are almost deserted. Yet not so long ago this was a bastion of workers’ resistance, the hotbed of the miners who toppled a government, clashed with peaceful protesters — and even took policemen hostage. The history of the Jiu Valley miners is indicative of the role that trade unions played in the postcommunist Romanian transition, acting as a de facto opposition to the mass privatizations and tearing-up of the social model that became known as “shock therapy.” This was, in short, a similar rite of passage to free-market capitalism that other Eastern Europe nations fell prey to in this ePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.1838552[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Remember!!: R.I.P. Russell Bentley


Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine
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>Imagine the outrage individual home owners would feel upon learning that they are shackled with 40-50 year mortgages, having worked and earned their way through the system (sucking up like bottom feeders), when now not only the indigent, but the drug addicted schizophrenics who cannot hold down a simple retail job, are about to be donated houses free of charge off the dime of the tax payer
wtf are you talking about. in your own little bubble I can tell


Well, as far as America goes, he's right. They have more houses without people than people without houses. And "affordable housing" will never, ever be recieved positively.


It doesn't really hold true if you go on to describe how it's actually a dual system predicated on a denial of that very prosperity based loyalty


No, it does. Poverty functions as a grinding mill over which workers are dangled.

Only a certain percentage of the population ever achieves the median wage and it is through the system of ingratiation that they must work to achieve this. Downward social mobility is essentially a real threat of a descent into hell.

Service sector employment is the bottom rung of this, next only to companies operating through illegal employment. Wage raises are kept to a minimum as a deliberate means to control staff. Access to this employment requires only citizenship, which is nothing more than a certificate to the general body of labour which is available.

The logic that results is one which emphaises individual success, when conversely one's achievements are entirely dependent on the social distribution of wealth.

The entire cycle of employment is viewed as a ladder from which one must escape.

Those who make it anywhere near the average income bracket jetison whatever political views they held because there was in no real case any substance to them, because the social invective is one which promotes ascension through the availability of luxuries.

The logic of consumption essentially prevails, at all levels. Because that is literally all capitalism produces: consumers.


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Why after like the 90’s the chance for communist parties being elected are slim, like the closest it got I think was in Russia in 1995 and Greece’s communist party getting 20% of the vote or something.
And it can’t fully be capitalists owning the government because Chile had elected a socialist party.
I’m probably wrong doe and there probably is some communist parties doing good I just can’t find any
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A (self-identified) Marxist-Leninist party governed Cyprus in the 2000s
Anyway: the real reason is because in most countries communist parties never had a particularly strong electoral base (even in countries with major communist parties, how often did they break 20-25% of the vote?)
what happened after the 1990s is inevitably a consequence of what happened before the 1990s, parties rarely spring up out of nowhere and perform well. communist parties are usually at a disadvantage relative to socialist/socdem parties in terms of maximising their social appeal both directly to voters, and also indirectly to institutional power brokers like the press. sometimes that's for unfair reasons (an association with foreign control / USSR, the class interests of power brokers) but sometimes it's for perfectly reasonable reasons: a failure to formulate a serious parliamentary program, a general disdain for parliamentarianism (why try hard to get elected when the revolution is imminent and your vanguard will have total control?), an intolerant attitude towards other parties where co-operation would be helpful, a too-overt sense of entitlement to working class votes, embarassing flirtations with violence and terrorism, cargo-cult behaviours, institutional dysfunction, etc, etc… the communist parties that have 1-10 seats are already, by the standards of non-governing communists, in the top 0.1% of most successful communist parties.
a hypothetical electorally successful communist party is unlikely to be taken seriously as a communist party by other communists - the actually-implemented programs of such a party would be largely indistinguishable from a social democratic one. logically, it is quite easy to defend this (that's the nature of capitalism!) - but socially it is much more difficult to explain why voting communist doesn't get you communism. (while a socdem party can be much more glib - "socialism is what a Labour government does")


Communist parties across the world will take seriously any party that actually wins and has control over a region. Because that's what matters. They don't give a fuck if you're more theoretically pure or whatever. That is because they didn't win power by being obnoxious leftcom nerds.

Every communist with a single brain cell will agree that the USA will require a complete restructuring akin to full blown rev, new constitution etc, before ever allowing a communist vanguard to lead.

When that inevitably happens, (barring global nuclear Holocaust) any annoying pedantic leftcoms will be left behind and ignored, as they always have been.

Unless this land, currently called the USA, acquires a new name during/after mentioned rev (which isn't really that farfetched), then the communist party will probably be called the CPUSA. Just kind of how it's always been done.


And besides, all of this is theorycrafting anyways. Burgerland is so far behind that it won't be till MAYBE gen alpha grows up.

What I wish I could see more of is a kind of "What is to be done Part 2: in the meantime" for us the USA because it is fucking BORING (speaking for myself) as an online communist who finds it very hard to compartmentalize and just wishes he had a fucking war to die in.


>"Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence."

In other words, if you're getting popped every time you try to do communism out loud (look at the black panthers) then just keep doing other progressive things in the meantime. The ultimate goal is the same, but you can't be mad at the CPUSA for not mowing down landlords. I'm honestly surprised they even exist at all in this god damn shit hole.


communism is tasty

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 No.1848559[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Pretty much every people group exposed to Abrahamic faiths ends up incorporating elements from them. They are so successful that everyone, from pagan Nazis to "POC revival" faiths, essentially adopts basic elements of either Christianity or Islam and changes some names on top
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>*when* and *where* was morality "created" so you can enlighten me?
Plato "discovered" virtue the same way Smith "discovered" capitalism, mid-1st millennium BC, Athens.
>How's being a "materialist" suiting you when you are constantly looking over your shoulder for ghosts?
I mean, if you presume to "be" a Marxist, one would expect you to commit to his method and to the history of thought more generally, not some crypto-capitalist perversion of it. If names are to mean anything I don't think that's an unreasonable confession to hold you to.
>idk you sound completely corrupted
Good, "corruption" is a religious ideology and "purity" has done nothing but generate the classes that cause the problems. Sounds like you're some bourgeois leech who's pissed off that someone's making their magical workings impossible.
>Love is much more real than your deranged delusions
Yes, errors are very real, and they're problematic.

The concept of virtue ethics will never not generate class or a state.

>Morality is a medium of our inherent sociality
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It was invented by capitalists?


Yes, it is not the duty of the dictatorship of the proletariat to deal with revisionism, specially the worst kind of revisionism, the "think of the children" revisionism


>Plato "discovered" virtue the same way Smith "discovered" capitalism, mid-1st millennium BC, Athens.
Ha! Its funny ofc since socrates was killed by the moralists of the time who wanted to maintain the status quo and saw socrates as a subversive atheist. But ofc what is socrates' point in apologia? I AM a subversive, but i subvert the good with a greater good. This to me is the definition of progress. Like luther reforming the church
Also, adam smith wasnt a thinker of "capitalism". Marx is the first thinker of *capital* proper. Thats why his famous book is called "capital".
>I mean, if you presume to "be" a Marxist,
I never said i was a marxist. I am a fan of marx but so what? Also did you know that marx once said that if anything, he himself is "not a marxist". This ties into my point about true belief. The true believer is the untrue believer, and the founder himself is the unbeliever! Same way jesus himself wasnt a christian.
>love is a lie
I wonder where things went wrong for you
>This sounds like the bourgeois moral neurosis in which making no choice is itself a choice.
Well yeah, negation is positively-negative, like how minus-1 doesnt get swallowed back into zero. Its called dialectics. Think of a popular example, the person who says "im not political" - are they political? If not-being is being then you agree with me.
>morality was invented by capitalists


we aren't libertarians faggot, morality exits


is it actually worth studying BOURGEOIS economics? Either formally (i.e. at a university) or on one's own? Is bourgeois (particularly neoclassical) economics just a load of unempirical hogwash, merely the modern equivalent of scholastic/thomist philosophy or the divine right of kings? Or like the analytic marxists, should we simply convert marxist concepts over to a neoclassical framework? and if not is there really any reason to learn it other than to debunk it and debate liberals/neoliberals and rightoids.
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You have to understand WHAT you're reading before you can even know HOW to read it, and Capital has clearly been misrepresented by friends and foes alike as a guidebook, rather than a condemnation. To properly understand it as a critique, one must first understand the method of political economy and the social analysis of production. This is the function of Appendix I, which was in fact the Introduction to the first draft. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/appx1.htm
The point you seem to be missing is that *firms* are themselves capitalist entities in a capitalist universe, and you are reading a book that is actually ABOUT and AGAINST that universe, so why would there be any recipes on how to run something in a not-capitalist way?
One who understands historical materialism sees the generation of such recipes as utopian wishcasting, and delusionally mythic to expect that they would still work on a world 140 years and at least half a continent away. It smacks of petit-bourgeois 8yos bothering their parents in the kitchen abuot how the kid "can do it better".
The correct answer is that the people who are most familiar with the actual material processes of concern are going to be the ones best situated to operate the technological base at revolution time, and to wind down the relations that constituted the bourgeois order while wiring up the circuits of production.
These are not neurotically "planned" by some absentee bishop's council. They evolve out of the material and social conditions that apply, and they only start from the bourgeois economic status quo.
>the immortal science
RevCom or cryptofascist?


>so why would there be any recipes on how to run something in a not-capitalist way?
There wouldn't: what there would be is recipes on how to run something in a capitalist way. (Strictly speaking, not recipes - empirical observations which a capitalist might nevertheless usefully deploy. one may be a pacifist and yet impartially analyse the best tactics for making war…) It is not a failure of Marx to address this, it is a failure of Marxists. If we are living with capitalist entities in a capitalist universe which we wish to destroy, that's a great reason to understand that universe at every possible level. If you wanted to destroy the earth, would you ignore all physical processes below the planetary scale?


Marx intended that people learn material production processes so that they would be able to produce something in the factory they just seized, NOT to extend the condition of bourgeois management as you would have us learn to do.
I have less than zero respect for petit-bourgeois tryhards learning an ideology in order to preserve their reactionary relations after the revolution. If you want to learn "small business" get a job.


It is not a question of extending, it is a question of understanding. If you wish to end a game of chess as quickly as possible and you are playing black, you would do well to understand all of the best moves that white can make. the bourgeoisie are going to understand how to manage things and they are going to try to preserve their position after a revolution regardless: the question is whether their opponents will understand precisely what they are doing at the "tactical" level, or only have a hazy picture of the overall strategy.


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>If you wish to end a game of chess as quickly as possible and you are playing black, you would do well to understand all of the best moves that white can make
Actual political economies are not closed contests with a recognized victor, and actors in these relations are not confined to act in accordance with game rules. A materialist understands the possibilities as well as the limits of what they are holding in their hands. That means understanding the laws of motion of the world in which they participate, most importantly the dialectic understanding that the world is *always in motion* and the individual bourgeois has great freedom to determine the form of the material world, and through that the constraints and possibilities that we have to deal with on subsequent days.
Appendix I of CPE https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/appx1.htm tells us how material production-consumption is prior to, and therefore constrains, distribution, circulation, and exchange.
>the bourgeoisie are going to understand how to manage things
Economicists tend to grossly overestimate their own contribution to processes already internalized by subordinates, and to express that estimate in bourgeois or merely institutionalist terms. It is well known that the reproduction of human life is the proper point of departure, not organization itself. I think you are tendentiously taking "organization" as a point of departure, and that is characteristic of a reactionary middle-class political and cultural outlook.
The vast majority of grand capitalists have little or no ability to practice the technologies of their own means of production. At the same time the production information and skill expropriated from us by the Taylorists Lenin too has been returned to us in an alien form, so to speak, through FOSS, piracy, direct access to Chinese markets, etc. against managers' and owners' will. The maker subculture likewise offers one template for demystifying industry and propagating individual competence.
It is notable that those who take Capital as a guidebook tend to lean into this process of dispossession and defPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


On 16 September 1989, Yeltsin toured a medium-sized grocery store (Randalls) in Texas. Leon Aron, quoting a Yeltsin associate, wrote in his 2000 biography, Yeltsin, A Revolutionary Life: "For a long time, on the plane to Miami, he sat motionless, his head in his hands. 'What have they done to our poor people?' he said after a long silence." He added, "On his return to Moscow, Yeltsin would confess the pain he had felt after the Houston excursion: the 'pain for all of us, for our country so rich, so talented and so exhausted by incessant experiments'." He wrote that Mr. Yeltsin added, "I think we have committed a crime against our people by making their standard of living so incomparably lower than that of the Americans." An aide, Lev Sukhanov, was reported to have said that it was at that moment that "the last vestige of Bolshevism collapsed" inside his boss.
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Sorry but the USSR model failed. Socialism needs freedoms to succeed.


Khrushchev's worst ideological 'crime' was taking the Stalinist view of 'productive forces' and solidifying it into dogma. Socialism was not about liberating humanity from capitalist social relations, but about providing works with goods and services and being better at social democracy than the West. Hence Yeltsin's breakdown upon seeing that American factories can spam out more hotdogs and breakfast cereals than the USSR could.


>was dissolved against the peoples will


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'liberating humanity from capitalist social relations' is meaningless babble if it isnt built on the foundations of superior productive forces and living standards. If your conception of socialism cant achieve higher growth or outproduce capitalism then it is worthless.


The US does produce most of its own food. It's actually kind of important to imperialism.

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let's talk about our native conflicts to add some education in the anglo people of leftypol about our politics and way of life. say your country and the things you know and the most important context for understanding your politics!
>a country ruled for right-wing politicians and right-wing accesories most of the time
>our recent constitution was made in 1991 mostly for a mixed bag of liberals, leftists and a sprinkle of rightoid thinking
there's lots of political parties, but the most relevant for leftypol are:
>pacto historico (historic pact): this actually is not a party, it's more like a coalition of all the colombian left, composed mostly of:
>polo democrático (democratic pole): the most known leftist party
>comunes (commoners): the FARC-party, created in recent years
>union patriotica (patriotic union): a revived leftist party that all its original members were exterminated by right-wing militias and druglords
>colombia humana (humane colombia): the party of gustavo petro, the current president
the rest of parties are basically "center" (closet-rightists and liberals) or full-rightists. but is relevant to know one of those:
>centro democrático (democratic center): an ironic name for a authocratic far-right party, the most despicable politicians and ghouls reside there
colombia has lots of guerrillas and rightist militias, the most known are:
>FARC: the OG guerrilla, they almost took the country in the 90's but they failed
>ELN: another leftist guerrilla more decentralized
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Shout outs to Petro for calling out Israel's bullshit not even a month after October 7

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