/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>promises 30 seconds
>Is only 18 seconds
Shonder Wowzen is a hack

Birth strikes

It's that fucking simple

You leave the country, you become an immigrant worker in another place.

Not having kids is a good start as anon said.
You should also constantly demoralize your fellow burgers.
Then move to another country.

Do the maximum damage possible.

Burn it all down. Become structurally anti-US, instead only in thoughts or words.

as the chinese do

do nothing

as the woke chuddha would say

nothing ever happens

as the kind grandfather Chudin would say

Nothing is to be done

>>2653075
Were they masc4masc?

>Most of the "against" facts typical of the average state bureaucracy, including the Soviet nomenklatura.
Not unless you believe the most outlandish liberal propaganda about the USSR. Sparta was a brutal and rigid class society in which a tiny minority violently terrorized and exploited the vast majority of the population, who were somewhere between slaves and serfs. The final test to graduate from the agoge and become a Spartan citizen was to murder a random helot. They literally hunted their exploited class for sport. It was not socialist by any absurd stretch of the imagination. If you want to insist on there being an ancient Greek state that was "closest" to proto-communism (which is a nonsensical statement since they were all slave societies) it would probably be Athens by virtue of higher social mobility. Moreover if you actually adhere to historical materialism, a mercantile society is closer to socialism in terms of developing the social basis for it.

>State-enforced austerity and discouragement of private wealth and luxury.
>State-controlled education and lifestyle, subordinating individual choice to collective needs.
>Strong social pressure toward conformity and equality in daily life among citizens.
Not communism. Read Marx, read Lenin, stop believing American propaganda about the USSR, and stop being a fascoid retard.

>>2653075
Athenian pederasty was an elite practice, it wasn't practiced by the common mass of Athenians tmk. Meanwhile, Spartan men almost certainly were homosexuals seeing as they were confined to male only agoges and ate in a common and didn't marry off into a household until their late 20s or sth.

>>2653913
>Spartan men almost certainly were homosexuals seeing as they were confined to male only agoges and ate in a common and didn't marry off into a household until their late 20s or sth
Wasn't that only the elite too? Like, citizens and not slaves, which were the majority

It's already been free for the last 60 years

>>2653597
I don't get why this video is in any way relevant to anything in geopolitics. Someone put an ideological flag in front a national flag among national flag like an asshole, someone else removed it. Woah, what an earth shattering event. Did this even happen in Cuba? It sounds like it's somewhere in the US or Canada. The whole premise is fucking stupid anyway, because Cuba has legalized same-sex marriage, and makes a very big push to normalize it via public education.

Beyond that, I don't get why people are so goddamn obsessed with LGBT stuff either way. I personally care about improving my quality of life; having good working conditions, a sense of safety, a nice place to live, the resources to start a family, affordable luxuries, etc. I can't even begin to relate to anyone who puts any amount of energy into worrying about the legality of crossdressing and anal sex.

>>2653664
>Beyond that, I don't get why people are so goddamn obsessed with LGBT stuff either way. I personally care about improving my quality of life;
>having good working conditions,
<queer people can suffer discrimination on the workplace
>a sense of safety,
>queer people are often targets of hate crime
>a nice place to live,
<queer individuals are more likely to be denied mortgage
>the resources to start a family,
<same sex marriage is banned in lots of places
this is bait, right?

>>2653721
I myself (the guy you are replying to) am gay, and I do care about LGBT issues, but I care about society-wide enjoyment of prosperity more.

My main metric for success is the quality of childhood. If every family has the resources to raise kids period, then things are okay. If their kids are safe, if they can go out into the neighborhood without much supervision, then things are good. If every family is capable of getting their kids toys, video games, books, etc, then things are great.

LGBT rights are something worth fighting for, but moreso in the context of larger social liberties, and are a lesser priority than baseline material quality of life.

>>2653398
Retarded take. Dialectical materialism is inherent to marxism. Marx uses it in Capital and even wanted to write a book about it but died before.

>>2653649
Marx uses a dialectical series of arguments in capital, but he never appealed to anything called dialectical materialism, according to Cockshott.
>wanted to write a book about it but died before.
more info? I'm interested. I don't necessarily agree with cockshott, I just added what he said to the conversation because I find it interesting.

>>2653652
Sorry I had read that on leftypol but it turns out it was Engels and not Marx.

>Marx uses a dialectical series of arguments in capital
Didn't he co-author multiple chapters of the Anti-Dühring, where Engels specifically described dialectical materialism ?

>>2653700
the preface toit says it was written by engels with the exception of chapter 10, but nevertheless approved of by marx

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhring/preface.htm

Engels doesn't really say "dialectical materialism" but heavily implies it:

>Marx and I were pretty well the only people to rescue conscious dialectics from German idealist philosophy and apply it in the materialist conception of nature and history. But a knowledge of mathematics and natural science is essential to a conception of nature which is dialectical and at the same time materialist.

If anyone actually believes what you said they‘re just an idiot and agreeing with any of that doesn‘t come close to agreeing with Marxism as well.

>>2652627
its a better method of Larping about this shit than the way people usually do, most dudes on this site play pretend central committee while begging the mods to make this place a [INSERT LEFTIST TENDENCY HERE] circlejerk

>>2652504
>help develop ways of communicating general theory to just normal people irl.
this fool thinks class consciousness is when you know theory and the more theory you know the consciousnesser you are. what if I told you there are people out there who haven't read a word of theory and have more class consciousness in theri little finger than you'll ever have?

Threadly reminder that 'class consciousness' isn't an ideology, feeling or some other metaphysical nonsense.

In Marxist theory, class consciousness IS the party. And it is counter opposed to union consciousness, which is the economic struggle without a party to turn it political, thus rendered impotent.

>>2653047
What OP and others discussing is the latter if it isn't clear enough.

Marx never achieved anything, mao gave us socialist china.

Therefore, Mao > Marx

>>2650381
>>2650496
>>2650530
>>2650565
>>2650583
<workers are illiterate so we must talk like this to preach to them
"Random individuals aren't willing to read Capital, that must mean Marx was at fault" is an insane leap of logic.

>>2652387
mass tor baiter making up shit nobody said again

>>2650496
Absolutely right about this. Language has changed wildly in 150 years. General literacy is limited. For someone like OP or FP to insist that Marx must be read directly is impractical, inefficient and illogical. Pointless masturbation which delays or deters the communist mission.

>Cafiero
I didn't know about that copy, cool mention.

>The sincerest of thanks for the two copies of your work! At the same time I received two similar works, one written in Serbian, the other in English (published in the United States), but they both are faulty, wanting to give a succinct and popular summary of Capital and clinging, at the same time, too pedantically to the scientific form of discussion. In this way, they seem to me to miss more or less their principle purpose: that of moving the public for whom the summaries are intended.
Do you happen to know what US publication Marx is referring to? Just so I can look out if it's ever recommended.

some immediate reforms:
- nationalize property that is used to extract rent
- state owned enterprises competing with private enterprise at low surplus margins and with low managerial salaries
- inheritance tax
- abolish securities trading and speculative finance
- capital tax
- abolish income tax
- profit caps on large and monopolized industries; tax surpluses over the cap at 100%
- phase in labor vouchers; could begin as a % of wages and be exchangeable for things like groceries which the state then reimburses with dollars, or could be exchangeable for dollars until it's fully rolled out, or could be used only in state owned enterprises and their total rollout dependent on total state domination of all economic activity
- buy-outs of insolvent businesses rather than bail-outs
- jobs programs to train and place downwardly mobile petite-bourg in exchange for their property
- anti-price-gouging (not just for consumers but because companies use it to launder surpluses back to themselves through shell companies when profit caps are implemented)
- build affordable housing
- cap hours allowed to be worked per week and implement more robust welfare
- raise minimum wage
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

If that's all you want, why don't you just join your local social democratic party and spend all day shitting on communists as being too unreasonable and too extreme?

I feel bad for having made this thread, it's sort of stupid. I am still curious about materially significant actions I might take, but this is a different question less stupid question.

Democracy would be wholly valueless to the proletariat if it were not immediately used as a means for putting through measures directed against private property and ensuring the livelihood of the proletariat. The main measures, emerging as the necessary result of existing relations, are the following:

(i) Limitation of private property through progressive taxation, heavy inheritance taxes, abolition of inheritance through collateral lines (brothers, nephews, etc.) forced loans, etc.

(ii) Gradual expropriation of landowners, industrialists, railroad magnates and shipowners, partly through competition by state industry, partly directly through compensation in the form of bonds.

(iii) Confiscation of the possessions of all emigrants and rebels against the majority of the people.

(iv) Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.

(v) An equal obligation on all members of society to work until such time as private property has been completely abolished. Formation of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

(vi) Centralization of money and credit in the hands of the state through a national bank with state capital, and the suppression of all private banks and bankers.

(vii) Increase in the number of national factories, workshops, railroads, ships; bringing new lands into cultivation and improvement of land already under cultivation – all in proportion to the growth of the capital and labor force at the disposal of the nation.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

1.Changes in organic composition of capital means that manufacturing share of labour will no longer absorb a huge amount of workers. You can't just deploy workers in a factory anymore, with how complicated and automated shit are nowadays. However I can see on-demand labour deployment in agriculture or services, India and China already do this, however this means that difference between productive capital and rent extraction becomes nul since there are no moe productive, industrial capital.
2.>state owned enterprises competing with private enterprise at low surplus margins and with low managerial salaries
This is my second biggest problem. Everything you said here, from implementation of labour vouchers to universal compulsory education to concentration of capital required an enormous, massive and powerful managerial bureaucracy, which you will need to pay and train significantly more than the average proles. You want to have your cake and eat it too; a state that needs massive managerial bureaucracy but also one without a nomenklatura. This is not gonna happen, because bureaucratic work by its nature is specialized.
3. >Organization of labor or employment of proletarians on publicly owned land, in factories and workshops, with competition among the workers being abolished and with the factory owners, in so far as they still exist, being obliged to pay the same high wages as those paid by the state.
>cap hours allowed to be worked per week and implement more robust welfare
My third biggest problem. Having full employment will result in a massive demand increase. Since we control capital we can prevent inflationary pressure on the currency equivalent but we will still be left with a skyrocketing demand for consumer and industrial goods. Unless you want to face goods shortage you have to crank up working hours instead of reducing them. Again a case of having your cake and eat it too.
However, this is already a step in the right direction. We need labour creation and mobilization program. And we need a massive, well paid bureaucracy to do that. The rest of your platform just need some moderation

Both the following remarks are rather tangential:

I was very curious about something related which is how so many left wingers become habituated to right wing talking points or even positions, like discussions on: immigration, identity, and identarian/nationalist foreign policy. I myself have been duped before by a shallow economism, and noninternationalism effectively justifying all of these things, but I don't know if this is the common trend.

Unrelated, I doubt this is exactly what you mean judging by the examples but there is something to there being a liberal enlightened humanism that dominates the discourse, and is very difficult to escape. It's as if via misunderstanding that anything outside of this view is seen as unthinkable. The essentialism we see shares a common space, but seems largely orthogonal, beyond of course the essentialism concerning the human agent. Perhaps essentialism could even be surrounding the liberal enlightened humanist etc. view.

>>2652505
pic checks out.

The actual left has been successfully decimated and pushed to the fringes. Left and right only mean anything in comparison to something if they mean anything at all this point. That's why mutts call democrats communists while in rest of the world they would pass as hard right wing fuck the poor party even if slightly socially liberal.

Also who the fuck is going the call them out on it?

>>2652476
another example are these anticamp imperial appologizers

there is literally only one thing he is right about and it starts with t and ends with rannies

>>2651957
>you are clearly not a communist either
You can't even throw an accusation without accidentally throwing a confession lol

>>2652067
That's right. The electoral "democracies" of the West (no sortition, and there are constitutional private-property privileges trumping majority will) are actually tyrannies.

>>2652441
if you think dialectical materialism is a "buzzword" then you are as much of a communist as cockshott, that is: not a communist

Use computers to model the economic system and direct it, or something like that right? There's nothing wrong with testing that, it's a good idea.
Doesn't change the fact Cockshott is a social fascist with an obsessive burning murderous hatred for gay people, trans people and migrants.
Take the idea, but reject the man.

>>2652546
Define dialectical materialism.

>>2537274
It was the bongs that created Israel, we just inherited it.

Something happened in Australia.

>>2596589
Oh shit!

>10 collaborators
minimizers btfo

>>2612024
but it's real