/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2666088
>Reddit is shit I know. But I'm not gonna build an entire platform just to experiment. If the model proves it has some viability then sure, collaborative labour without market relations would be a perfect project to build.

https://join-lemmy.org/
https://lemmy.ml/

You might not need to do that.
Going on lemmy might attract more serious people.

I dont think this is gonna work
Social media is literally designed as a market, maybe if it were its own site id think its otherwise but its a subreddit

>>2666366
I'll check it out, thanks.
>>2666369
Social media is a tool, that has been in many cases captured by the market. No different than the printing press was captured by religious institutions.

It's a subreddit right now, the idea is to test the viability of coordinated non market production, using social media as a facilitator.
If it it proves viable, a standalone non corporate platform would be an obvious project to collaborate and build.

>>2666071
Anon let me help you with one issue you have:
"social production" means production that is done not for individual use but for use by members of society as a whole, such as commodity production
"individual production" is when you cook a meal for your family. It's production for the producer, not for wider society

Feudalism engaged heavily in individual production. Capitalism turns production into social production by alienating us from the means of laboring for ourselves and compelling us to labor in a system of commodity production. If your goal is not co-ops, and isn't expropriating existing productive forces, then it seems like you want people to engage in individual production. People already do this, but the reason it's not dominant anymore is because we don't all live on self-sustaining homesteads. We work jobs and that takes the majority of our time and energy. If the goal is socialized production, then I ask why anyone would want to do this for free, outside of their hobbies and charitable work, which I assume they're already pursuing if interested and don't need to be convinced to pursue.

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>>2667496
>flinkers
flickers

>>2667504

flickkas

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Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Damn, I made a post but it is lost. Something to do with all the moderators of the board are useless loser faggots. Anyways. Martin Luther based protestantism off of Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity. Go look it up. Fuck the mods.

>>2667436
>we achieved lower stage socialism but still need 10000 years of commodity production to reach communism
Okay? Literally unrelated to how Stalin falsified dotp to make it lower stage

>>2667438
>Muh semantics
Ok don't listen to me then. Keep being confused

Did 'strengthening proletarian ties' include, forcing united fronts on international parties, allying with nazis, allying with western colonialists, abolishing the Comintern to appease said colonialists, establishing a Jewish state in Palestine, etc?

>>2667440
>semantics
Nice cope pseudo. If only this distinction wasn't the whole reason Marx broke with the left and the Comintern was later established

>>2667443
You asked me a question, I answered it, then you just restate the question differently. The only pseud here is you, Marx didn't break with the left over the distinction between socialism as the mop and socialism as the state ideology of a post revolutionary dotp. He broke with various groups for various different reasons, disagreement over utopianism, reformism, idealism, etc. The comintern was established to further the goals of international revolution and again, break from reformists and their ilk. None of that has anything to do with your confusion regarding mop and post rev dotp both being called "socialism"

>>2666225
"Imperial core" is marxist analysis tho

>>2665334
>epistemology
erm chuddy thats philosophy and marx was very critical of it so that means communists should never engage in that stuff o algo

>>2666241
Proof?

>>2665432
>>2665454
I think it's wrong to consider identity oppressions "non-class based", because if you're rich enough you can avoid them. A proletarian woman is expected to have a job, raise a kid, feed her family, and do a majority of the housework. A bourgeois woman can simply hire a maid, doordash every meal, and have a lucrative career or not depending on her whims. A black man from a poor area will be profiled as "gang-affiliated" just based on family and neighborhood ties, railroaded into jail, and once out may have work requirements that force him to take the first job available and not leave when working conditions are bad, pay is low, wages are stolen, etc., might not be able to vote, might have debt to the prison that compounds interest and for which the state garnishes wages, etc. A bourgeois black man avoids all of this, and his worst oppression is that the guys at the country club make offensive jokes.

Within the proletariat there are strata, and these are influenced heavily by identities like race, sex, and nationality, among others. If we attack and alleviate certain policies that keep some proletarians down based on one of these identities, we are attacking the exploitation of the working class. Just like if we form a union and strike for better conditions. It doesn't raise up all the working class at once, but it does alleviate some of the oppression bit by bit. It also equalizes things within the working class, making it easier for us to unite. Right now it's hard for a white person, without intentionally educating themselves on these systems, to understand and feel solidarity with the level of oppression that non-whites face. It's difficult for men to unite with women when women's extra labor allows their comfort. So both in the communist spirit of serving the most exploited and oppressed, and out of practical necessity, the systems and cultural norms that enforce these divides within the working class need to be attacked by communists. The division of the working class into strata, some higher and some lower, makes traitors of those in higher strata, or at best makes them comfortable and slow to act in solidarity with the more oppressed strata. This is just the reality. White men tend to be more conservative, and black womPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2665011
Make demands so extreme that the Democrats don't want to deal with you anymore.

>>2667382
Mods aren’t automatically right just because they say so, are CEOs and cops proletarian?

>>2667382
this retarded rule is just an overcorrection from when hazoids were spamming this hole and those larpers havent been relevant for months now

>>2667385
amerilards still doing the "we are the 99%!" bullshit in 20 fucking 26 apparently lmao

>>2667385
CEOs is a job not a class. COP is a job not a class.

>>2660559
People over-focus on unions as the one true mass organization. Unions are important but mass organizations in other areas have their place. IMO mass organizations must target capital or the state which protects capital. Cop-watching seems like a good place to start with mass organizations. Organize around capital and the military weapons of counter-insurgency. So the political, economic, security and information functions of control. Civic action is a military weapon of counter-insurgency and the same applies to homeless shelters and similar organizations. Some bullshit like that. IDK I'm mostly an armchair socialist I guess.

>>2658722
lol

>>2666936
<Counterinsurgency (COIN) is the blend of comprehensive civilian and military efforts designed to simultaneously contain insurgency and address its root causes. Unlike conventional warfare, non-military means are often the most effective elements, with military forces playing an enabling role. COIN is an extremely complex undertaking, which demands of policy makers a detailed understanding of their own specialist field, but also a broad knowledge of a wide variety of related disciplines. COIN approaches must be adaptable and agile. Strategies will usually be focused primarily on the population rather than the enemy and will seek to reinforce the legitimacy of the affected government while reducing insurgent influence. This can often only be achieved in concert with political reform to improve the quality of governance and address underlying grievances, many of which may be legitimate. Since U.S. COIN campaigns will normally involve engagement in support of a foreign government (either independently or as part of a coalition), success will often depend on the willingness of that government to undertake the necessary political changes. However great its know-how and enthusiasm, an outside actor can never fully compensate for lack of will, incapacity or counter-productive behavior on the part of the supported government.
I think they already ditched this approach because they understand it is pointless to try to address the root causes, so modern american counter insurgency uses the "enemy-centric" (as defined in that text) approach instead. but even in this old, liberal text you can see some hints of what I understand is the modern american strategy. for example, it says that insurgencies are more dynamic and often use guerrilla tactics to counteract the stronger but more static conventional armies. it follows then, although the text doesn't mention it, that the way to militarily defeat an insurgency is to organize a force that is even more dynamic and unconventional than the insurgency it is fighting, in other words, death squads

>>2666936
Thanks, I'd started reading this already and it's good stuff.

Also I agree, we need to be flexible with the forms that our mass organizations take. This flexibility rests on understanding their real purpose.

The section in the attached pdf on a speech by Chinese comrades is really enlightening on the full spectrum of mass organizations that existed, and how they utilized them. Of course their situation was different because they had an army on the way, so they chose to cycle between escalation and de-escalation of their organizing, which any other context won't have the privilege to do.

Also we need to build tunnels asap

>>2666951
FDR's new deal was peak counter-insurgency, but failing the political initiative/willingness of capital to go to those lengths, genocide is their real answer. When the population is united behind guerrillas all they can do is wipe out the population. If they tried this on their own soil it would be suicidal.

Also I agree that their tactic is to use the tactics of insurgency against insurgency. We need to take the concept of workplace mapping to the geographic level and engage in social mapping so that we can identify, unite, and protect all advanced elements, efficiently reach out to intermediate elements, and be ready to violently suppress any terrorism by the backwards. Revolutionary organizers are at the ground level, giving us the capability to engage in much more granular surveillance and immediate reprisal than the bourgeois forces. Their surveillance relies mostly on our voluntarily opting in to their media and entertainment software, which can be combated by creating our own alternatives in socialist media and recreation clubs where face to face socializing replaces bourgeois social media.

Interesting book by Tanja Nijmeijer, a Dutch woman who fought with the FARC and rose to a senior position, translated into English.
Also lol at the NSN getting disbanded, but this new hate crime legislation is gonna be used by the Israeli lobby to shut down Marxist/antiIsrael protest groups.

Have some redditshit because it's a slow few days.

/r/AustralianSocialism/comments/1qg5huk/eureka_initiative_volunteers_assisting_the_cudl/
>we're out in public helping people, but uhhh don't look at our faces!
>white people with a eureka flag and no additional context
>cucumber and cheese sandwich
oh shit uygha what are you doing

>Eureka Initiative
See >>2578434 for a QRD. It's strongly linked to red-brown griftshit including the American Communist Party.
As you can see, a couple of people mention this in the comments and are blatantly brigaded by the Eureka Initiative redditors.

breaking live update shock huge news: a few neonazis are grounded, not allowed to go to sydney CBD for a day.

Judging by Facebook event responses (obviously an outstanding, excellent, hyper-accurate source), the nationalist MFA protests will be about half the size as last time, with Gold Coast being the largest.
Facebook responses suggest that Invasion Day protests will swamp them.
Caveat - only fools use Facebook

nu thread >>2665564

Trump says US Justice Department ‘looking at’ Ilhan Omar’s wealth
“Tom is tough but fair, and will report directly to me,” Trump wrote in a social media post. “Separately, a major investigation is going on with respect to the massive 20 Billion Dollar, Plus, Welfare Fraud that has taken place in Minnesota, and is at least partially responsible for the violent organised protests going on in the streets.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/26/trump-says-justice-department-looking-at-ilhan-omars-wealth
https://archive.ph/OwTM5

Funding deal begins to unravel as Senate Democrats vow to oppose DHS bill over Alex Pretti shooting in Minnesota
Six of the 12 annual spending bills for the current budget year have been signed into law by President Donald Trump. Six more are awaiting action in the Senate, despite a revolt from House Democrats and mounting calls for Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem’s impeachment.
https://apnews.com/article/senate-democrats-homeland-security-funding-government-shutdown-f727fa0f3865990f191d4d5770e04752

Feds yank contracts with Booz Allen Hamilton after Trump tax leak
The Department of the Treasury said Monday that it is canceling all contracts with Booz Allen Hamilton after a former contractor who worked for the consulting firm leaked tax information belonging to thousands of people, including President Trump.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/treasury-department-booz-allen-hamilton-trump-tax-leak/

As LA maternity wards close, patients are giving birth in ERs: ‘There’s no system to care for these women’
Los Angeles county has seen at least five maternity wards close since 2023 and 16 since 2014. As these maternity wards have shuttered, the county has seen a rise in emergency room visits and admissions from people for labor and delivery. From 2016 to 2023, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Episode 517: Sex, Lie, and Videotape (TrueAnon )
We talk through a series of court cases featuring the enigmatic Kyrsten Sinema, Betar USA, and the surge of ICE agents in the Twin Cities and beyond.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-517-sex-148853040

The Right to Abortion in Puerto Rico Is Under Threat
Abortion is legal in Puerto Rico … for now. But Governor Jennifer Gonzalez recently signed a law establishing legal personhood of a fetus from the moment of conception. The law gives the fetus similar personhood rights as an unborn child. For example, the mother can claim the child to get financial benefits or name it as her heir. Since Roe v. Wade was overturned in the United States in 2022, several measures to restrict abortion have been introduced in Puerto Rico, though none had previously succeeded. Abortion remains technically protected under the right to privacy in the island’s Constitution. However, feminist groups and activists are mobilizing and are warning that laws like this threaten abortion rights. On December 22, the Coalition Aborto Libre Puerto Rico (Free Abortion Puerto Rico) called for a pañuelazo (a mass demonstration for abortion rights, specifically in Latin America, where activists gather to publicly raise and wear green bandanas) in rejection of this law. Building off the Marea Verde movement in Latin America for abortion rights, protesters called for the protection of women rights and denounced how the state is dismantling immigrant and LGBTQ+ rights.
https://www.leftvoice.org/the-right-to-abortion-in-puerto-rico-is-under-threat/

On the Minneapolis General Strike: Now is the Time of Praxis
People have taken to the streets. The city of Minneapolis has declared a strike—the first general strike in decades. It is a victory for our organizational capacity and shows that we are not outnumbered, merely out-organized. How many children will the soldiers of the Epstein regime kidnap before people rise up in arms? This number remains to be known. But we can know this: the sleeping bear of labor has awoken from its slumber.The people, the masses, the working members of this nation, are sickPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2645320
>You said it youself. The state is a tool of the bourgeoisie
Yeah I see. I think this is the core disagreement between us when it comes for state and class colaboration. Imo the state isn't necessarily bourgeois, even its current form today (might have to do from where I live too).

>But this movement died in the 1920s
You mean a non-marxist movement that wanted to abolish wage-labor ?

>>2645339
>Better financial management only exists insofar as it mitigates the falling rate of profit and class antagonism.
I think I'm starting to see the picture. It's not that contradictions ALL necessarily lead to a further degradation of the proletariat's life, but that those identified to Marx and inherent to capitalism do ?
Makes more sense desu, I had understood it as "all contradictions necessarily degrade the proletariat's life therefore a revolution is more and more likely to happen"

>As far as I know, the only answer is *threat of violence*.
Yeah, I'm saying that it is more beneficial for both the proletariat AND the bourgeoisie to slowly establish better and mutually interesting reforms than to have a revolution. You could technically say that on the long term this would lead to classes disappearing.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2645485
>on contradictions
The dialectical movements between classes lead to the benefit of one in expense of the other. There's no rule saying the oppressed class will always get the short end of the stick, it's just the most common scenario.

>it is more beneficial for both the proletariat AND the bourgeoisie to slowly establish better and mutually interesting reforms than to have a revolution
This is false. A proletarian revolution is strictly in the best material interests of the proletariat. There's simply no mathematical benefit to workers in keeping the bourgeoisie around.
There are historical periods in which capitalism is tolerable enough, and in such times the threat of revolution is low. But as labor exploitation grows and material conditions deteriorate (and they will deteriorate, as capitalism has already ceased to be progressive in much of the world), the more incentive workers have to seize the productive forces, and if class consciousness is widespread, a revolution of communist character is more likely.

>on the long term this would lead to classes disappearing
The only way for this to happen is for the bourgeoisie to lose property over the means of production. This means collectivization of the productive forces i.e. oppression by the proletariat over the bourgeoisie. Do you think the most powerful class, with the most leverage, the larger threat of violence, will give away their benefits for free?

>[welfare] comes down the feasability
Yes. A world with commodity production and private property where everyone has education, job security, few working hours, 150m² housing, satisfactory urban infrastructure, access to light industry commodities, and occasional luxury, is honestly an okay reality that wouldn't ever make me mad at society, even if it's nowhere near the realized potential of a post-capitalism world. It is, however, not feasible. For me to explain why it is not feasible would derail the thread and is a topic of very large scope, and then you'd go down the rabbit hole of Marxism to never return.

>a socialist revolution where everything can go bad and become worse
Communist experiences only really go bad when there is an exPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2645485
>You mean a non-marxist movement that wanted to abolish wage-labor ?
Marx and Engels explicitly envision the first stage of communism, to be initiated after a DotP is established, as abolishing wage-labor and replacing it with a labor hour system. Lenin and the bolsheviks agree, only now introducing the short-hand "socialism", within their revolutionary Marxist context to mean just that, the first phase of communism. But after the revolutionary wave fails to spread into the imperialist countries of Europe, "steps back" have to be taken. Due to illness Lenin leaves the picture and is replaced by an eventually succeeding Stalin-faction. With his theoretical creation of "Marxism-Leninism" a new "socialism" is introduced with now overly compromised content; which rejects revolutionary communism for an array of legalist, class collaborationist, nationalist and pacifist tactics elevated to the level of 'the only true' dogma, is introduced.
We are still here unfortunately, and with even worse, less principled Marxist-Leninist states to deny our struggle and pray to.
The break of the 1920s is crucial for understanding and it has less to do with Trotsky than you might imagine if you just 'zoom out' a bit. Key points of attention should instead be the struggle against the bolshevizing turn of the Comintern and its consequences, first in 1910s-1920s Italy and then 1920s-1930s China. The time-spans is to actually comprehend the context, actors, the catastrophic results and their erroneous persistence in the contemporary movement.

>>2645320
> Terms like dictatorship of the proletariat predate the fetishization of the word "democracy" that went on at the end of the 19th century

Not this again. Dictatorship of the proletariat IS democracy. It is the only REAL democracy.

<We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.

- Communist Manifesto

<“Pure democracy” is the mendacious phrase of a liberal who wants to fool the workers. History knows of bourgeois democracy which takes the place of feudalism, and of proletarian democracy which takes the place of bourgeois democracy.

- The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky

>>2645485
>Yeah, I'm saying that it is more beneficial for both the proletariat AND the bourgeoisie to slowly establish better and mutually interesting reforms than to have a revolution.
you gotta have the revolution first, then you can do this, but only under a dictatorship of the proletariat. thats what china is doing

>Imo the state isn't necessarily bourgeois
yeah sometimes its communist lol. but there are times when classes can work together because their interests are materially aligned. like a comprador bourgiosie who is cut out from imperialist profits might become a national bourgiosie and help the proles defend from imperialism. but thats temporary and once they get sovereignty they will flip sides.

and working together isn't class collaboration, class collaboration is a fascist principle that classes are inherent and should work together for the good of society because some people are born as heads of the body and some are hands or feet and they should know and accept their station.

>>2666086
an old liberal hack who only came out of retirement because his young protégé Trevor Noah was terminally unlikeable and did standup bits about how miners on strike in South Africa deserved to et shot

>>2665908
>>2665901
two indisputable truth nukes

>>2666165
I want the gold
give me the gold

>>2666086
Obligatory disclaimer that he is a decrepit lib, who would promise the bare minimum and even if he wins be stymied by his rich friends.

Strategically, I think the public would respond well to an outsider candidate with his politics. I think there is a good chance we get an obama-like campaign in 2028, i.e. a younger person new-ish to politics or a complete outsider the way trump was, who surrounds themselves in economic populist rhetoric and represents not just reform but disruption to the system in some way. Does that translate to anything other than stalling the decay? doubtful

>>2666152
is this leftist "walz sucks cause he hasn't ordered his national guard to arrest ice" or right-wing "walz sucks because he doing an insurrection"?