/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

It’s not even relevant because the ecological destruction capitalism is causing will make both itself and a transition to socialism (whatever that means) impossible anyway, the only way forward is a return to feudalism or primitive communism

>>2683687
>Feudal rulers could not just rebrand themselves and hope to compete in a world shaped by industry and markets.

They did though. That's how there were European aristos with real power well into the 20th century. Capitalists were acquiring titles for a long time to legitimize themselves (marrying into a family or buying it).

>capitalism develops centralized nation-states

Feudalism was already doing this although I guess you could call the transition proto-capitalism depends on what time period you're talking about.

>>2683687
>Feudal rulers could not just rebrand themselves and hope to compete in a world shaped by industry and markets.

Except that's what happened in Japan. Instead of having a bourgeois revolution they had a managed transition out of feudalism by the portion of the feudal ruling class who were modernizers.

< The Japanese elite knew their country to be one among many confronted by the dangers of conquest or subjection which they had faced in the course of a long history […] what is perhaps more important, the Japanese elite possessed a state apparatus and a social structure capable of controlling the movement of an entire society. To transform a country from above without risking either passive resistance, disintegration, or revolution is extremely difficult. The Japanese rulers were in the historically exceptional position of being able to mobilise a traditional mechanism of social obedience for the purposes of a sudden, radical, but controlled 'westernisation' […] the 'Meiji Restoration' […] a drastic 'revolution from above' […] The parallelism between Japan and Prussia has often been made. In both countries capitalism was formally installed not by bourgeois revolution [against feudal lords] but from above, by an old [feudal] bureaucratic-aristocratic order which recognised that its survival could not otherwise be assured.
Eric Hobsbawm, Age of Capital (1848-1875), Chapter 8

Now consider: the transition from primitive communism to slavery, and from slavery to serfdom was neither brought about through the planning of the ruling class, nor through revolution, but through unplanned historical changes over several centuries. To me, the idea that modes of production ALWAYS transform through deliberate revolution is ahistorical. What history shows is that modes of production do change, but whether they change through revolution, reform, or in a totally unplanned way over a long period of time, is up to particular material conditions.

>>2683850
It’s the exact opposite. And degenerating back to feudalism and primitive communism is essentially suicide.

>>2670263
also what the AI bubble popping or mass unemployment?

we are in the nothing happens period, it will last all your life

yes

>>2663487
Interwar and pre revolution until social media gets banned
>>2670204
But yeah ww3 after great depression after ai bubble pops

>>2663487
Soon

>>2668757
i mean you do kinda have to make the infrastructure for foreign capitalists to invest or you dont have the foundation for them to give you their patents

>>2670043
> In China, workers use Communist Stock market to exploit foreign capitalists.
thats what i said lol

>>2668657
Wrong. In China, workers use Communist Stock market to exploit foreign capitalists. Communist Stock Market serves Communism without regard to law of surplus-value, as sanctified by Article 1 of Securities Law of the People's Republic of China, because the law of surplus-value is abolished in China.
>Article 1 This Law is enacted in order to standardize the issuance and transaction of securities, protect the legitimate rights and interests of investors, maintain the socioeconomic order and public interests of society and promote the development of the socialist market economy. 
Communist security law differentiates bourgeois investors from proletarian investors, upholding domination of proletarian investors over foreign bourgeois investors.
>Article 89 Investors may be divided into ordinary investors and professional investors on the basis of their asset status, financial assets, investment knowledge and experiences and professional capacity. The criteria for professional investors shall be specified by the securities regulatory authority under the State Council. Where an ordinary investor has a dispute with a securities company, the securities company shall prove that it has acted in compliance with the laws, administrative regulations and the regulations of securities regulatory authority under the State Council and has in no circumstances misled or cheated the investor. Where the securities company is unable to prove the above, it shall bear the corresponding compensatory liability. 

>>2670026
Just steal them

I doubt Americans will be happy if Trump destroys the dollar to prop up a new crypto empire.

anon, i feel the same way. I welcome the collapse. APOCOLYPTIC SOCIALISM IS THE FUTURE

>>2659168
Climate change?

>>2659168
>hes ignoring climate change
hehehehehehe

>>2666171
They won’t

>>2665334
>epistemology
erm chuddy thats philosophy and marx was very critical of it so that means communists should never engage in that stuff o algo

>>2666241
Proof?

>>2665432
>>2665454
I think it's wrong to consider identity oppressions "non-class based", because if you're rich enough you can avoid them. A proletarian woman is expected to have a job, raise a kid, feed her family, and do a majority of the housework. A bourgeois woman can simply hire a maid, doordash every meal, and have a lucrative career or not depending on her whims. A black man from a poor area will be profiled as "gang-affiliated" just based on family and neighborhood ties, railroaded into jail, and once out may have work requirements that force him to take the first job available and not leave when working conditions are bad, pay is low, wages are stolen, etc., might not be able to vote, might have debt to the prison that compounds interest and for which the state garnishes wages, etc. A bourgeois black man avoids all of this, and his worst oppression is that the guys at the country club make offensive jokes.

Within the proletariat there are strata, and these are influenced heavily by identities like race, sex, and nationality, among others. If we attack and alleviate certain policies that keep some proletarians down based on one of these identities, we are attacking the exploitation of the working class. Just like if we form a union and strike for better conditions. It doesn't raise up all the working class at once, but it does alleviate some of the oppression bit by bit. It also equalizes things within the working class, making it easier for us to unite. Right now it's hard for a white person, without intentionally educating themselves on these systems, to understand and feel solidarity with the level of oppression that non-whites face. It's difficult for men to unite with women when women's extra labor allows their comfort. So both in the communist spirit of serving the most exploited and oppressed, and out of practical necessity, the systems and cultural norms that enforce these divides within the working class need to be attacked by communists. The division of the working class into strata, some higher and some lower, makes traitors of those in higher strata, or at best makes them comfortable and slow to act in solidarity with the more oppressed strata. This is just the reality. White men tend to be more conservative, and black womPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2665011
Make demands so extreme that the Democrats don't want to deal with you anymore.

>>2667432
Already doing that

>>2670751
oxymoron

>>2665539
Anarchist mode of production doesnt work, read the walmart republic.

>>2665976
>Elections are based purely on who has the best optics and popularity which often has nothing to do with how good they are at ruling

Does that also apply to party hierarchies? I'd be down with a system where everything was done by sortition

I'm not the most educated on marx or lenin but I thought the dictatorship of the proletariat was just fancy lingo for a government ran by and for the workers and only certain branches of Marxism Leninism actually believed in the Dotp being an actual dictatorship

>>2674266
It’s very liberal

>>2682172
how does any of this "fight" climate change ?
and how is this even supposed to happen ever ?
>>2682174
every african country wants to industrialize

>>2682229
Actually in China it would happen in the cities first since urban birth rates are the lowest while rural-to-urban migration is decelerating. And since the largest cities are honestly pretty overcrowded(entire countries' populations live in Beijing or Shanghai alone), this won't produce serious problems except some more empty residential buildings.

>>2682233
>Eventually we will return to the same dilemma that faced biodiesel where the macroeconomic of mass production of a renewable technology makes it only slightly less bad for the environment.
Look at the stats, it's objectively like 6 times less bad. We don't need absolutely zero emissions, that's not viable, we just need to make less than the plants can absorb. At the very least global warming will slow to such a crawl that we'll have plenty of time to further advance technology.
>Nuclear might be but i doubt that there is much political will among the people to massively increase the number of nuclear plants we have, not with the ghost of Fukushima
This is China not Germany bruh, it's already building like 40 plants at this very moment. China is also developing thorium reactor technology which looks promising.
>the sheer amount of energy and technology you need to do mass hydroponic farming means that it is going to be very carbon intensive
IIRC the Chinese grid already has a capacity double that of the current usage. It can probably handle the needs of mass hydroponics, and the carbon emissions of that will depend on the greening of energy generation.
>>2682233
>this is the difference between having an ox and a tractor
I don't have a study for this but I'm 90% sure an ox would produce more emissions than a tractor per unit of land plowed. Because organisms, apart from being less efficient for a specialized task than machines, also have lengthy gestation and growth periods that require energy and CO2 emissions while said organism is doing nothing. Though, production/disposal CO2 "cost" is generally always less important than the "cost" of less efficient lifetime operation(once again, see le gas vs EV bar graph)

>>2681895
If a bourgeois exists in your country, it’s liberal, look at the Chinese flag, two of its stars are bourgeois

>>2682396
Bourgeois stars

>>2693063
irl most intentional communities that actually last for a significant amount of time regardless of ideology end up trading with the outside world just a set a quota for xyz agricultural product and call it day

>>2692625
le west vs. le east is an inherently idealistic and imperialist worldview

>>2693533
True

>>2693195
Russia is ASIAN and MONGOLOID so the USSR was not, in fact, Western.

>>2692983
>no other alternative but work or death.
lol. Normally anarchists pretend people are free under their system and dance around the reality of their coercion but Nechaev actually gave the game away. Was he an idiot?

>>2693012
Eritrea is a Zionist tourist trap

>>2692983
OP was this thread inspired by this exchange in another thread?
>>2692138
>>2692143
>>2692145
>>2692163
>>2692278
>>2692575

>>2693017
something something 15 minute city. something something pod + bugs. something something own nothing be happy.

>>2693192
Pretty much

>>2685483
Yurop

>>2687283
yeah the more risky the behavior, the greater the reward, but the greater the likelihood of injury, imprisonment, or death. So always bet on people doing low-mid risk behavior more often than high risk behavior… unless it's really addictive and provides an immediate reward, like drug use…

Akshually what you’re probably referring to as “revolutions” were just bourgeois nationalist struggles. Revolutions happened in industrialized countries (Germany, Hungary) but were defeated due to Bolschevik mandated opportunism (I piss on an image of Radek every morning)

>>2689380
> Revolutions happened in industrialized countries (Germany, Hungary) but were defeated due to Bolschevik mandated opportunism (I piss on an image of Radek every morning)
elaborate

>>2693352
Can’t because that’s bs. They were defeated due to internal issues, not because of the bolsheviks.