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 No.1650427[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and creators. Drama belongs in /isg/

Reading
Towards a New Socialism by Paul Cockshott and Allin Cottrell: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
Brain of the Firm by Stafford Beer
Cybernetic Revolutionaries by Eden Medina
Cybernetics: Or the Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine and The Human Use of Human Beings (1st edition) by Norbert Wiener
Economic cybernetics by Nikolay Veduta
People's Republic of Walmart by Leigh Phillips and Michal Rozworski
Red Plenty by Francis Spufford
Economics in kind, Total socialisation and A system of socialisation by Otto Neurath (Incommensurability, Ecology, and Planning: Neurath in the Socialist Calculation Debate by Thomas Uebel provides a summary)

Active writers/creators
Sorted by last name
>Paul Cockshott
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
596 posts and 86 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1851838

>>1851576
so? its probably just temporary

 No.1851857

>>1851553
>The chicago school is superior to the austrian school
chicago school is basically just right wing keynesianism which is why 21st century libertarians hate it so much. It was radical by late 1970s standards but essential is the center of politics now. the whole idea was to stop doing fiscal stimulus and only have the government intervene by using central banking rates and to have a focus on fighting inflation. The EU is basically the incarnation of monetarist/friedmanite doctrines in a real political structure.

 No.1851894

>>1851857
>chicago school is basically just right wing keynesianism which is why 21st century libertarians hate it so much
Thats a good summary
With friedman too, you can tell he was a humble guy and wasnt part of the hayek cult

 No.1852023

>>1851894
>heckin friedman
Lol

 No.1852045

new thread here: >>1852043



File: 1715367911216.jpg (257.26 KB, 1000x1430, H20672-L270016075.jpg)

 No.1850877[Reply]

UN assembly approves resolution granting Palestine new rights and reviving its UN membership bid
The resolution “determines” that a state of Palestine is qualified for membership — dropping the original language that in the General Assembly’s judgment it is “a peace-loving state.” It therefore recommends that the Security Council reconsider its request “favorably.”
https://apnews.com/article/un-resolution-palestinians-membership-rights-us-assembly-875560e897f27d6600090420f36404e4

War on Gaza: Hamas steps up fighting as aid runs out under Israeli blockade
In a series of battlefield updates, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades said it ambushed Israeli troops, attacked them with anti-armour missiles and several short-range rockets. The heavy fighting comes amid intensifying Israeli artillery bombardment and air strikes across the Gaza Strip.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-hamas-steps-fighting-aid-runs-out-under-israeli-blockade

Turkish artillery attacks start fire in fields in northern Syria
Dozens of hectares of cultivated fields around Ain Issa were burnt down today after being bombarded with heavy artillery. Due to the ongoing attacks, the fire brigade is unable to extinguish the fires. In the town of Zirgan (Abu Rasen), fields have been shelled for two days from a mercenary base in the Turkish occupation zone and the fire cannot be extinguished here either.
https://anfenglishmobile.com/rojava-syria/turkish-artillery-attacks-start-fire-in-fields-in-northern-syria-73210

Eight hundred protesters attempt to storm German Tesla factory
Some 800 people took part in the protest, according to the organising group Disrupt Tesla, which claims the expansion would damage the environment. Video showed dozens of people wearing blue caps and masks coming from a nearby wooded area and attempting to storm the company’s premises with Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1850926

PKK Internationalists in the Palestinian Resistance
“On June 6, 1982, ten PKK militants fell while fighting shoulder on shoulder with the Palestinian resistance in Lebanon in the war against the Israeli invasion. They fell as internationalists. Today, on the occasion of the anniversary, we publish stories of these ten Kurdish partisans in resistance and commemoration of the fallen Internationalists of the PKK. Their story “Heroes of the Castle Arnun” was first published in the magazine Serxwebun, in Kurdish and Turkish and in the German solidarity magazine “Kurdistan Report” in August 1984.
https://abolitionmedia.noblogs.org/post/2024/05/09/pkk-internationalists-in-the-palestinian-resistance/

CP (Switzerland), Against Zionist repression in Swiss academies!
The Communist Party (Switzerland) expresses its solidarity with Polyquity and condemns the unilateral repressive decision by the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne (EPFL) to suspend this feminist organization! The crime? Having dared to organize the conference "Femonationalism, colonialism and feminism: response from the Global South", an event which "revisited the racist, nationalist and colonialist rhetoric present in certain feminist movements". Among the arguments touched upon, naturally, was Palestine's national liberation struggle, and in particular the events in Gaza over the last eight months. An important case both for its contemporaneity and for the different response of the various feminist movements. While some of these movements have rigorously and consistently supported the liberation struggle of the Palestinian people in an anti-colonial and class-based spirit, others, representing a Western and "liberal" feminism, have remained silent or defended the atrocities of the Zionist entity.
http://www.solidnet.org/article/CP-Switzerland-Against-Zionist-repression-in-Swiss-academies/

EC: Abdicating its Responsibilities
ELECTIONS to half the seats in the Lok Sabha have been completed with the third phase of polling being over on May 7. This has provided enough experience andPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1851283

File: 1715392642643.gif (94.15 KB, 307x300, 1715391987983708.gif)

Thanks News Anon

 No.1851344

File: 1715402862843.jpg (97.63 KB, 1080x723, GDS1xVcbEAA1Do3.jpg)

This tweet is as true as ever.
TYBNA

 No.1851365

>>1851283
kek incredible image anon

 No.1851995

>>1851344
>specifying Europeans
All farmers in current day fully capitalist world are parasitic scum, many of whom are rural bourgeois and themselves employ wage-labor in their fields. The sooner they get completely immiserated and their assets razed to the ground, the better for the proletariat.



 No.1848494[Reply]

what's up with the right claiming "the left" is PAGAN?
>That story, put simply, is the retreat of Christianity in the West and the emergence of a new religious faith in its place — a new paganism. What comes amid the decline of the Christian faith is not some live-and-let-live secular liberal utopia, not a rational and atheistic political order with neutral public spaces and a culture of tolerance. Instead, we have a new form of paganism with its own moral precepts, obligations, and rites. And unlike the secular liberal order, which embraced tolerance and pluralism as an inheritance from Christianity, the pagan order will be intolerant in the extreme.
<Let me clarify my terms. By “paganism” I don’t necessarily mean a flood of new converts to the cult of Zeus or Woden (although that too is on the rise, at least in Britain). The postmodern pagan culture that’s now emerging won’t look like the paganism of the past, but it will be no less pagan for all that.
>The pagan ethos, across immense spans of history and geography and cultures, has always been a rejection of reason and objective moral truth (along with the entire idea of objectivity), and a radical embrace of relativism and subjectivity in every realm of life. Paganism embraces a divinization of the here and now, of things and even people. Its creed, so far as it has one, can be summed up in the maxim: Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
<What that means in practice, of course, is a society in which power and force, not democracy or human rights or universal moral principles, rule the day. This is why the most advanced pagan societies have always taken the form of slave empires. They are societies in which power alone determines what is right. In such societies, the ruling class is free to do as they please as regards the underclass, who are obliged to adhere to the state morality and do as they’re told.
>Understood in that light, we can see the outlines of a modern form of paganism emerging in our time, especially on the political left. The official morality of the left forbids any dissent from the LGBT agenda and its claims about identity, for example. This is why lawmakers in deep-blue states like California want to make it a crime if parents don’t affirm their child’s “gender identity.” This iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
34 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1849498

Meanwhile it was pagan cultures who invented philosophy and it was the church that went on book-burning crusades and killed scientists.
And the enlightened liberals who reclaimed reason for the west were all atheists and freemasons.
But this is why i fundamentally hate conservatives. They are so myopic and ahistorical.
Fuck james lindsay and fuck all these wannabe alt-academic hacks who try to mystify politics into a spiritual war
also arent most nazis nietzchean pagans today anyway? But at least they have a broader perspective than the american evangelical

 No.1849499

>>1849446
>anarchism
>left wing
Not for long

 No.1849548


 No.1851207

>>1848494
who is this from? Also lol at "secular liberalism - but christian".

I love that the lie is made so explicit. The main lie being that for christians as well reason is rejected, nothing is true, etc. The only difference is on the subject of morals, which christians claim are only valid if an authority figure invents them (though they are divided on if it matters at all if it's some up-start sect/cult, or a traditional view on morality xD). So on one side is "anyone can do what they want because nothing is real" and on the other "only certain people can do what they want, because nothing is real - the rest have to do what that guy says". What a joke

 No.1851840

>>1851207
>who is this from?
see:
>>1848509



File: 1714687105577.jpg (35.22 KB, 800x562, 1714587629120.jpg)

 No.1842286[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Down with imperialism, down with capitalism, down with zionism. The protests are spreading beyond the US. Don't let up the pressure, make sure to strike when the iron is hot.
615 posts and 139 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1852940

>>1850817
stop concern trolling, we are literally seeing their successes right now

 No.1852941

>>1852938
So did I. We really need encampments at public parks in cities. I think that is the best step forward maoanon.

 No.1853009

>>1852941
Oh yeah, undoubtedly! We are hoping to get something going on some other front and just keep the momentum. Total contiguity, we will be out there again tomorrow

cheers o7

 No.1853026

an update: we ended up taking the most recent counter-proposal. I was disappointed and abstained from the vote, noting that the word "Palestinian" is not even used in it. I didn't wanna crush the chillens spirits too much though, and honestly, I think that even though there was a lot of demoralization, people see that we are just a small part of a much larger movement that is seeing success most of us never anticipated.

 No.1858551

message from Yemeni students to the international protest movement



 No.1851558[Reply]

The reason the marxists have a difficult time getting even 1% of the vote in most western countries is because a plurality of the western population is labor aristocracy that would be hurt not helped by an internationlist marxist revolution. This plurarily tend to control the conversation of the biggest parties in the west with the help of funds from the billionaire class.

The toxpic of labor aristocracy is the real crux of the disagreements within leftism and I don't see it discussed very often despite Marx ("petit bourgeosie") and Lenin ("super profits") themselves talking about it as a very important part of analyzing the modern world. As soon as you bring up the topic, many people make accusations about you being a third worldist despite Lenin himself being the originator of the idea.

What proportion of the western countries and eastern countries population is Labor Aristocracy in your opinion?

USA: 40%
Western Europe: 30%
Japan/Skorea: 25%
Russia: 10%
China: 10%
India: 8%

The low proportion of the population being labor aristocrats means that Russia/China/India are much more open to marxist ideas and each have had marxist governments at least at the state level.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.('magacommunism' is a psyop)
61 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1852546

>>1851558
No the reason is that you guys screw up Marxism and try to twist it to meaning a dictatorship of college kids who ban cars for da environment!1! Shit like the "black-only safe places" on college campuses during BLM and so on turn every actually working-class person against you. Then you guys invent some buzzword to delegitimize their grief against you, like calling them patsocs.

You guys turned it away from a class struggle to racial and gender shitflinging, I don't call it politics, and thus moved many, many people away from Marxism without any effort from the government. It was all you. This is how trump won, by just pointing a camera at you guys.

I mean look at what you're saying right now, anyone that works but owns a house is now not a worker. Nobody likes you people.

 No.1852659

>>1852546
>a dictatorship of college kids who ban cars for da environment
communism is actually a dictatorship of petit bourgeois truck drivers who roll coal to own the college kid faggots (fascists)

 No.1852664

File: 1715535758745.webm (173.73 KB, 640x360, shoot.webm)

>>1852546
this is the most undialectical mode of thinking i have ever encountered

>Shit like the "black-only safe places" on college campuses during BLM and so on turn every actually working-class person against you.


Yes that was definitely /leftypol/

>Then you guys invent some buzzword to delegitimize their grief against you, like calling them patsocs.


ah yes, that wasn't a self-applied label of right revisionist public figures, it was a buzzword people made up on a Tanzanian Winterwear Knitting forum.

>You guys turned it away from a class struggle to racial and gender shitflinging


Yes that was definitely the Communists on the niche Eskimo Ice Fishing Forum, and not bourgeois liberals and reactionary conservatives. for decades

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1852895


 No.1855808

>>1852664
This stupid ass language is why you will always be stuck online and never do anything.



 No.1851347[Reply]

I think the left is too nice, and doesn't feature enough comic sadism and spite.
I genuinely have a deep desire to be hurt and controlled, and to hurt and control others.
I think such self-defeating desires are as legitimate as any others, and cannot be reduced to madness or ideology.
I do think I should probably just pay for a dom when I save up enough neetbux.
Or maybe ERP online.
But I'm kind of a coward though.
Anyhow, that's the biggest reason why I don't like the left.
>inb4 but if you don't like the left then why are you a leftist
Easy, I don't like myself either.
10 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1851537

>Or maybe ERP online.
That's probably your best bet. That and fanfics.
Like there's a lot of leftists wtth S&M kinks that just don't outlet it into their politics because they know it would make them less effective. I get that can be frustrating to not multitask, but you decide your work-life-praxis balance and will find a routine you're happy wtth.

 No.1851554

>>1851537
I mean I mentioned kink, but it's more that I am deeply distrustful of people who are kind to me, probably because of experiences of abuse. So I just really feel scared hanging around spaces that are too nice. It feels gross and manipulative.

 No.1851555

>>1851554
Don't see why we should care.
This is not your blog.
/siberia/

 No.1851556

>>1851537
Have you tried being normal and not abusing your own body for temporary hedonistic release?

 No.1851557

Moved to >>>/dead/5183.



 No.1835513[Reply]

Is anyone old enough to remember these guys? A lot of anons on here talk about groups like the CCRU which largely got popularized by meme culture, but does anyone remember the AAA?
It was largely made up of Marxists and Anarchists from various countries.
7 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1835891

They were involved in launching 3SF alongside other situationists, so they're cool in my books. Space communism now!
Posting link instead of retyping a buncha stuff: https://nuclearchange.net/social/thread/310.html#311

 No.1835895

>>1835539
>Disconauts

 No.1835908

File: 1714093918733.png (429.24 KB, 410x526, AAA ZINE 1996.PNG)

A lot of them have praised the soviet space program as seen in the first video reply 1:07 >>1835514 (praising Valentina Tereshkova) and refuted or challenged a lot of the lies about the America 'winning' the space race in their various published writings.

 No.1851440

I remember them launching a weather balloon or some shit like that.

 No.1851461

>>1835514
90s Bologna was fucking crazy between these guys, the satanists, Luther Blisset, the (fake) satanists and probably something else.



File: 1714916663475.png (428.24 KB, 512x512, 8-sACJ0VcW8iMTEym.png)

 No.1845682[Reply]

Is Platonism and Marxism/leftism compatible or is Plato just a proto fash? What about related ideas like Spinozism and neoplatonism?

>Neo-platonism (or Neoplatonism) is a modern term used to designate the period of Platonic philosophy beginning with the work of Plotinus and ending with the closing of the Platonic Academy by the Emperor Justinian in 529 C.E. This brand of Platonism, which is often described as ‘mystical’ or religious in nature, developed outside the mainstream of Academic Platonism. The origins of Neoplatonism can be traced back to the era of Hellenistic syncretism which spawned such movements and schools of thought as Gnosticism and the Hermetic tradition. A major factor in this syncretism, and one which had an immense influence on the development of Platonic thought, was the introduction of the Jewish Scriptures into Greek intellectual circles via the translation known as the Septuagint. The encounter between the creation narrative of Genesis and the cosmology of Plato’s Timaeus set in motion a long tradition of cosmological theorizing that finally culminated in the grand schema of Plotinus’ Enneads. Plotinus’ two major successors, Porphyry and Iamblichus, each developed, in their own way, certain isolated aspects of Plotinus’ thought, but neither of them developed a rigorous philosophy to match that of their master. It was Proclus who, shortly before the closing of the Academy, bequeathed a systematic Platonic philosophy upon the world that in certain ways approached the sophistication of Plotinus.
7 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1848453

>>1846248
surprised to see christian-anon saying this considering how much neoplatonism influenced Christianity

 No.1851337

>>1848453
Christianity isn't really platonist as such the church fathers borrowed the language for the sake of self expression in the context of paganism there is nothing like the trinity in greek philosophy or any other religion really except superficial similarities.

 No.1851368

>>1846248
>Neoplatonism is idealist it, it's goal was to understand the qualitative nature of the world
By that definition all natural scientists and medics are idealists, who knew?
>it has no practical application unless you take Plato's writings on politics and pragmatic matters as gospel.
It's amazing to think how many marxists have gotten praxis wrong when all they had to was to take Marx's writings on politics and pragmatic matters as gospel.
>>1851337
>Christianity is christian, not platonist
>Christian trinity was first conceptualized by christians
Who could've guessed?

 No.1851400

OP, Plato was proto-fash (see „Plato’s ‚Republic‘ and German Education‘‘, The Journal of Education, Vol. 77, No. 907, No. 910, No. 913; German version in: Otto Neurath Gesammelte philosophische und methodologische Schriften Band 2). Neo-Platonism is a very fuzzy term and I wouldn't use it.

 No.1851412

>>1851400
Yes, Neoplatonists didn't believe they had any original contribution but upheld Plato's oral tradition, they even believed that Aristotle was in harmony with Plato, that is Aristotle's teaching being the exoteric dimension and Plato's the esoteric and that Plato's writings were quasi divinely inspired.



 No.1849371[Reply]

anybody got any good soruces on how socialist commodity production in the USSR from the end of the NEP to the 1956 reforms was indeed socialist in nature? it's always kind of eluded me and i tend to be surrounded by leninists who say the very existence of commodity production in the USSR was an example of the USSR being state capitalist
9 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1850369

>>1850083
They were not yet as many workers as commodity.

About commodity and all that, as I see, it is to answer what regulates human working activity. If they produce commodities, their activity will be regulated by alienation, appropriation by a class, etc.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/perlman-fredy/1968/commodity-fetishism.html

 No.1850433

>>1850079
it did. it just didn't have generalized commodity production

 No.1850829

>>1849371
>was indeed socialist in nature
It wasn't. Stalin and Khrushev named it "generally(fundamentally) constructed socialism", basically it means that if every country in the world would adopt such a model thus it will mean socialism was achieved
<we succeeded in liquidating our bourgeoisie, in establishing fraternal collaboration with our peasantry and in building, in the main, Socialist society https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/01/18.htm

 No.1850965


 No.1851404

>>1850059
>there is not such thing as abolishing commodity production
It's literally the goal of communism you mongoloid.



File: 1712089997251.png (887.63 KB, 764x625, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.1811652[Reply]

I've been rereading Lenin's What is to be done, Where to start and Letter to a comrade and it got me thinking. How many existing socialist organizations actually try applying the rational organizational kernel cleaned from autocratic circumstances Lenin posits in the texts? By that I mean: how many organizations actually try establishing a unified organ whose sole purpose is to connect all these disperse organizations and fights?

Setting up a server whose only purpose is to host an email service which informs everyone of existing sturggles and give a clear, broad picture of the movement? It is no secret that most leftist organizations are sects - kruzhoks. Even if it comes to cops busting this set up, you just need a cheap PC to set up another.

Imagine getting a weekly update what is happening in your country when it comes to leftist sturggles from people actually struggling. Imagine the theoretical and tactical texts suited from local conditions that could develop from this broad and encompassing picture of the struggle.

Why hasn't this been done?
23 posts and 7 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1850303

>>1850207
>t. never visited lainchan

 No.1850313

>posts about Palestine from October
wtf based? bookmarked

 No.1850798

Not just Iskra, but many other papers, the whole mainstream discourse was left and socialist. What you really need is to have a leftist agenda on the rise again.

 No.1851181

File: 1715384797702-0.png (68.29 KB, 641x151, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1715384797702-1.png (318.62 KB, 458x294, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1850798
you need to build *cultural* will, we lack time (climate change baby), but we have the space because we can detourn the culture, or evoke buried revolutionary messaging from the past. Erik Draven, the crow, a movement back from the dead, they killed us before but we are (so) back.

>>1850207
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9tournement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil

 No.1851199

>>1811652
is Letter to a Comrade that 1902 one? Do u think it's relevant to his post-1905, more matured thinking?

I was reading some maotist or something journal where they were talking about their attempts at forming factory circles basically and how they're shifting towards the more "traditional proletariat" in large industry because they had the most success there… Idk that's actually an unrelated thought, but really in the permissive first world is there a point in doing things the same way? Unions aren't illegal. In tsarist russia you couldn't come together in formal groups at all without government approval afaik. Basically everything was clandestine to some degree. We absolutely can't replicate them today because we lack that sensibility, there is no broad "left" cultural understanding that we need to operate with secrecy in mind. And also we kind of don't have the same level of material despair and suffering widespread among active workers as was the case then and there. So does it make sense still to concentrate on workplace organizing as the keystone, over community organizing? I don't know. Strikes are still a powerful weapon. But currently many workers in key industries are able to be paid off with decent wages, though conditions suck.

Also in the letter to a comrade (if im thinking of the right one), Lenin called for a really autistic form of centralism that probably made sense under conditions of extreme repression, but I don't think in the first world would work, it would be plagued not only by infiltrators but mostly petite-bourgeois minded clout chasers. He orders cells to be created by central committees, which are more or less self-selected by local communists who have ties to the RSDLP. One thing I think they got right was strategic use of human resources, because they would move people around all the time and they salted very aggressively, and took the time to figure out where their activism was needed and put seasoned revolutionaries there. That part of centralism is absolutely necessary. But the top-down nature can lead to massive faults in the case of poor leaders.

One thing they had, and also anarchists in the US have, but communists in the US don't have, is a theory of low-level organizing, and what exactly to begin. In fact feminists had this down more than communistPost too long. Click here to view the full text.



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