/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2361176
here we are I suppose. This is the ultimate memetic weapon that is effective on both human and machine because it is the quagmire that exists within logic itself.

>>2361176
maybe it's more inexpressible than ambiguous. like the full decimal expansion of pi is a precise value, but we would need infinite time to calculate it, so it is inexpressible, rather than ambiguous. in fact, it only gets less ambiguous the more time you spend calculating it, but you never finish calculating it.

>>2361570
You can use a numbers system based on pi == 1. Numbers are an abstraction anyway

>>2361570
the point is that ambiguity isn't a lack of knowledge it's primordial substance.

>>2361903
you simply "crystallize" little bits of fluid ambiguity into non-ambiguous states but also there's still liquid ambiguity in between each tiny crystal.

>>2360874
I never studied philosophy in university, but where do you think the scientific method comes from, dumbass? From fucking aliens?

>>2344859
Absurdism is devoid of any material analysis or critique and makes it point with a blanket statement followed by tugging at your inner torment. I don't usually call shit reddit but it embodies reddit with its obsession with pointless ideologies.

Truthfully, I haven't engaged with it much but when people who enjoy absurdist philosophy explain it to me it's usually something like finding comfort in the conscious, irrational choice to keep living. This, besides being empty self-help garbage, doesn't really impede anything in Marxism or the (good) tendencies in Anarchism.

>>2344859
The absurdist claim is more so a defense of existentialist meaning of life. Existentialism arose from modernity, and the reason it rose from modernity is because before modernity there was a machine set in place by the ruling class of society called "God" and "The Church."

any questions about existence, or about purpose in life could be answered by turning to god or the holy bible for answers
>why do I exist?
<you exist because God gave you life etc…

once the burgers started the revolution against the old fuedalist lords, one of the first things that the burgers did was take a page from many of the enlighentment thinkers and start to move away from the idea that God is the ultimate decider of things; and instead move towards a more humanist perspective.
after all god decided who was a king or a lord or serf, under this new democracy; every (theoretically) is meant to start from 0.
<fast forward to the end of the 19th century
it turns out that structurally, capitalist liberal democracy did indeed not have lords and serfs, but instead we find that the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, sort of feel similar to that of Lords and peasants etc… except now we also did away with one more thing; The system that was held in place to distract us from existential meaning had been abolished, and in it's place is only the social relations left by capitalism - which isn't good; the social relations under capitalism are inherently alienating, not just from an economic standpoint, but from a social standpoint
>I need to work a 9 to 5 job to survive
>I need to make sure my children are able to survive in this capitalist society
>I cannot truly live my life how I want to, because my life is mediated by capital

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2344859
they may be right right, but i would rather life be absurd and comfortable and with healthcare rather than with unnecessary cruelty and suffering. we can figure out 'the meaning of life' after we defeat capitalism and fascism and imperialism.

what's there to critique? people will experience existential dread even in gommunism

>>2359360
Your position is too extreme because you support Mass Deportations of workers and oppressed nations in order to restore the demographics of the Pre-Colonial world (even though Settler-Colonialism should have never happened, we do not have a Time Machine to undo all of the permanent demographic changes that have happened throughout the world since 1492, and advocating for Mass Deportations in order to restore Pre-Colonial demographics is a Reactionary position), but you are right that every Nation/Ethnic group needs their own Country in order to achieve Global Communism as this is in line with the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist principle of Self-Determination of all Oppressed Nations in their own SSR as articulated in Stalin’s “Marxism and the National Question” https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03a.htm and Lenin’s “The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination” https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/jan/x01.htm , along with the National Delimitation Policy of the USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_delimitation_in_the_Soviet_Union , as shown in my World Map of all of the SSRs and SFSRs of the future Global USSR (I plan on posting an improved version of this Map in the near future, which will finally divide Sub-Saharan Africa into an appropriate number of SSRs based on its Ethno-Linguistic demographics, which I have been thoroughly researching over the last couple months) which will be created after the inevitable World War III between the U$ and PRC escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

Malcolm X was asked about zionism in 1963 before his split with Elijah Muhammad in 1964. Here was his answer.

>>2360270
Still have the jewish ethnostate in your map of the future global USSR huh King Lear?

Why haven't you updated your map and removed that zionist propaganda from it?

>>2360430
Dudes a hoi4 head kek

>if taken to its logical extreme
gamerchair socialists, go outside and speak to your undocumented slaves before they all get sent to death camps. There's still time! Hurry!

>>2359489
>Stalin supported the Jewish right to self determination
>They always look at what people say rather than examining what they do.
What Stalin did: cynically exploited Jews as if they were chess pieces on the geopolitical board, utilizing their nascent Zionist project to weaken the British empire

>>2359439
Based Debord reader.
People on this board can't be assed to look at the etymology of the word and the definition of Lumpen/Lump (rag, by extension scoundrel), so basically they start all these stupid debates about how someone on the dole is a lumpenprole, and teachers are lumpenproles, and everyone I don't like like lumpenprole, it never stops and it's pathetic.

>>2359444
everyone I don't like is lumpenprole*
it's always the logical conclusion of these threads

>>2359341
This piece is fucking lovely 😍.

I guess for my two cents, I see the lumpen as the peasant strata of the cities, an ambiguous reservoir capital can drain proles out of. Like the peasants, the role of the lumpen is ambiguous. IMO the lumpen are still a necessary element in revolution in the imperial core. I see the lumpen as a kind of self-exploitation of the working class not so different from the peasants, the petty-bourgeoisie, the capitalist family unit or worker cooperatives.

Reminder that Marx was going to flesh out his full theory of class in volume 3 but died before doing so and Engels' edition of the manuscript cuts off there.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch52.htm

Historically they always kill communists. No exceptions, it was even a lumpen that betrayed the Panthers and to this day he defends it well after any sort of "deal" would have enticed him.

Now the actual label of lumpen is all over the place and is very clearly used by Marx as an insult in most of his texts. The only one it makes sense for are criminals, though there were times where being unemployed was illegal. Using it for the unemployed, irregular employed, or students is ridiculous, which is why in Capital the term doesn't exist. It's called the reserve army of labor which itself is also stratified. Some argue it's still relevant because the term appears in the Grundrisse but those are his scattered and unfinished notes and shouldn't be held OVER Capital.

And this pol-pot revival fetish on shitting on students and calling them lumpen is the dumbest shit in the world. For the developed world, education is a prereq for entering the workforce.

>>2359110
And we also see the Indonesian death squads ran by gangsters or the Nazi Dirlewanger Brigade which was specifically for counter-insurgency terror. Historically, they never fail to be a lumpen-organized force of reaction. It's not really the goal of theory to fetishize entire classes of people just because they're poor, like antifa does. I mean, antifa at times exploited the lumpen by using them to squat on property to do meth in, rather than any sort of comradery.

I think the real problem, is that people moralize class which is not the point. You're not inherently evil for being lumpen, but we're (I'm at least) not idealist liberals, who fantasize about a mass "waking up" of a class that historically has not aided socialist causes.

>>2361126
Like right here he's putting lumpen into a distinct category, because they're (mostly) part of the proletariat because they don't have Capital. If it's some RICO act dude then he obviously owns Capital even if it's illegal. It's not really hard to understand, this confusion on class is just from people refusing to read Marx.

>>2360041
>made by western bourgoise
very special boy who thinks idpol only exists in the "west"

>>2359931
how do you material revolution without cultural revolution

>liberals "won" the culture war

Y'know if we look all the way back to Bismarck's "Kulturkampf", whoever declares "culture war" is usually the one that ends up losing it, in no small part because it's interrupting the seemingly organic, fluid, and stable nature of "culture" to impose something from the top-down. In Bismarck's case he unironically got Catholics to organize and develop a stronger cultural identity under persecution. In America, both liberals and conservatives take turns on either side of the culture war.

George W. Bush tried to turn gay marriage into a wedge issue. The result? The LGBT community garnered more sympathy (in no small part because groups like the Westboro Baptist Church pissed everyone off and became one of the most visible faces of homophobia).

After Bush, you've got a more "grassroots" culture war emerging from the liberal camps in the aftermath of Occupy Wall Street and probably stemming from disappointment in Obama's second term. You got all the land acknowledgements, endless articles about "mansplaining, manspreading" privilege discourse entered the modern lexicon, feminists yelled at people for oggling women in bikinis, you couldn't read a movie or video game review without hearing about patriarchy or whatever. Well, in comes some sympathy for the Right as liberal killjoys policed peoples' language.

Then Trump wins and you get these loud expressions of White Nationalism and Racism and the like, and these start to fall apart because they're the dog that caught the car as it were. Maybe some edgy teen jokes about the Holocaust not being real to "trigger the libs"; but the actual requirements of prosecuting a culture war? Trump's too lazy to do.

Now we're in the second Trump term and he's going for an even harsher form of persecution so right wingers can "win" the culture war, but you can see the results in real time: his approval rating is falling, even among his previous supporters, and people are getting deeply upset over masked thugs kidnapping random brown folks off the street.

Who knows what comes next, though. Looks like the libs are too scared of their own social agenda because they can recognize "fuck white men" only cost them votes. You've got this "abandon the groups" shit that some democratic strategists are promoting. Maybe we'll get a reprieve? Though they seem to be breaking out the "think of the poor bipoc business owners" stufPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2359868
Theyve had victories but right now theres a backlash occuring

>>2360301
>You take people who have already realized that the system is self destructive and unsustainable and you steer them away from the wrong solutions (fascism, conservatism, criminality, terrorism, adventurism, revanchism, suicide, etc.) and towards the correct solution (class war waged from a proletarian standpoint).

Okay, so, how? They aren't taking the class war pill, and half of them would be class traitors anyway.
I can post statistics about how (non socialist btw) European nations are btfoing America in education, health, happiness, prosperity, etc, and none of it will matter because
>muh freedoms
A radical shift is needed in perspective, hence radicalization. How do you convince someone that WE the people own every natural resource here?

you are not going to believe this but its actually very easy

1. know what youre talking about (requires reading, you actually need to do it too)
2. talk about what you know (more often than not, it works if you know what youre talking about)

its yet another thread about """"""radicalization""""" thread from people who dont even know how communism works

>>2360833
I don't need to know how communism works, I know how capitalism works

>>2360297
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etqNTyEINTQ
check out benjamin studebaker, but tldr for the interview
>neoliberalism in the 21st century alongside the service economy has entirely destroyed any coherency in the working classes, let alone in the term "the masses"
>it is impossible to renew the large scale politics of the 20th century in the new one due to this and will always fail because the circumstances have changed regardless of how good any ideology is
imo i agree with him, i think you need something to add to socialist ideology in order to get people in nowadays, religion perhaps?

>>2358536
I don't doubt that there were survivors of the holocaust among the settlers, but what I'm trying to say is that the locution of "founded by holocaust survivors" implies a causal relationship, and one which ignores the fact that the zionists were enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis even as their fellow Jews were being oppressed.

>>2358273
this is correct. and if you read my followup post I discuss how the founder of the settler movement was the daughter of lehi terrorists.

>>2358549
>one which ignores the fact that the zionists were enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis even as their fellow Jews were being oppressed.
well that's what was also said in the original post you responded to. I don't know if you finished reading it or not:
>>2358508
<The kind of people who were kapos or opportunists or collaborators in the death camps were more likely to survive until the end of the war than those who were not so naturally many of these people settled israel and became willing participants in even the early atrocities like the nakba

>>2333160
>) they cannot move to the left of the two state solution. a policy specifically tailored to be impossible and act as a euphemism for maintaining the status quo for sickos with international relations degrees.
I saw a youtube comment from an israeli that debunks the two state solution. That wasn't his goal, but it was the result of how he spoke about it.

>>.2342377
Where's the lie?

>>2342377
it's 100% true

>>2342363
yes, bordiga personally opened the door for him and let him in the government

attention for anyone reading this thread: lethal amounts of stalinoid cope and retardation, proceed at your own risk

>>2340204
can you elaborate

Dune style luddites when?

>>2359888
Nick Land is right
ACCELERATE

>>2360415
oh yeah we are definitely accelerating, just not in the way techno accelerationists want.
You will watch the death of industrial human ciivlization and you me and everyone will weep

>>2360423
Expecting climate change to ever be seriously considered by our rulers or by the rest of humanity is hilarious. That was never going to happen, sweetie
I have degree in environmental science and I do not give a fuck about climate change and neither should you. Well, you should if you live in a country which is going to be fucked by it but otherwise sit back and relax dude, it's so over it never even began

>>2360432
>Expecting climate change to ever be seriously considered by our rulers or by the rest of humanity is hilarious. That was never going to happen, sweetie
lmao, Why do you think I said death of industrial human civilization. I learned long time ago that humanity is on the titanic seeing the iceberg in front of us, but willingly choosing not to stop.
Human civilization will collapse and we will weep once we finally face the worst consequences. But by that point it will be too late

>>2330218
>the solution is not to have unchecked authority instead.
I agree but dividing state functions into independent Branches of Government doesn't work. Federal Executive just ends up running everything anyway because they have the guns. And then there is no internal system of holding the Executive back because the other outside, separate and independent Branches of Government can just be ignored.

>>2330157
During revolution the mutiny of soldiers as free proletarians will be a necessity for our victory. This is a correct description of the distinction between soldiers and police.

>>2331960
Isn’t it a pre-condition for the revolution to happen? Rather than a post-condition?

>>2330432
Buy a rifle and see what happens.

"spacecops are comrades" (scoffs) Ok fascist 👽