/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2263290

Red Salute fellow Ian Wright / Dark Marxism enjoyer.

Why dont you become the next Bordiga?

>>2263382
>the party did that
and lenin was part of the party and put in the work you fat retard

Lenin read and wrote a ton and he was a huge asshole to everyone (which was based because he really was right about everything) he could actually beat a debatebro in a debate (debates aren't about ideas, just how well you can present your arguments) and his brother was killed giving him leathal motivation.

>>2265508
>huge asshole to everyone
actually he was very nice, until he started discussing politics, then he would become an asshole.

>>2265241
Okay. I just thought value is when everyones labour is considered as equal or something. And here you are talking about metaphysics

>>2265244
well, labour was not considered equal in aristotle's time (due to slavery). that is part of marx's point. even when it wasnt considered equal, it still gained an abstract equality as value in exchange. marx speaks a bit later on about this;
<"whenever, by an exchange, we equate as values our different products, by that very act, we also equate, as human labour, the different kinds of labour expended upon them. We are not aware of this, nevertheless we do it. Value, therefore, does not stalk about with a label describing what it is. It is value, rather, that converts every product into a social hieroglyphic [capital vol. 1, ch. 1, sec. 4]"
value has these intrinsic properties to marx.

>>2265248
So, in aristotles time it wasnt considered equal but they without knowing it treated everyones labour as equal by commodity exchange

>>2265249
yes, precisely. that is marx's positon.
there is "something" equal between things,
which to marx, is "human labour in the abstract".
aristotle also perceives an equality, but cannot say what it is. marx tries to fill in the gap.

If one properly understands the chapters of value form the rest of the volume should be easy

Stop derailing my thread and let campists get out of their holes

>>2264654
Please remove this - I don’t follow this sub for political issues

>>2264564
Ziggers and other multipolaroids who love liberal nationalism.

>>2264562
>Campists want me to abandon class struggle and critically support the guy on the right otherwise the guy on the left will get me
were they not in alliance or even some kind of puppet? support for one is for both

Islamoliberal cuck mods lmao

>India will never accept mediation on the Kashmir issue or discuss the matter, and the only item to talk about is Pakistan returning the portion of Kashmir that is in its illegal occupation, government sources on Sunday said in an off-the-record briefing.

>Sources also said India had called Pakistan’s nuclear-deterrence bluff after retaliating against the Pahalgam terrorist attack.

>“We take the nuclear threat seriously, but it cannot serve as cover for Pakistan to do terrorism in our country,” a top government official said.

*SIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPS*

>>2262308
Where does the clip with the kid take place? What province?

friends, haven't been playing close attention but i'm seeing chuds claim that india destroyed some chinese-made air defenses, is it true?

:(

>>2264968
nobody here really knows anything. they just repost tweet screenshots and telegram videos

new thread old friends
>>2264990

>>2264094
The working class is anyone who must work to earn a living. Do you seriously think a prostitute is a capitalist? A prostitute is not a prole but a prostitute is typically still working class. The same goes with unemployed people. Also housewives in some places can be working class. Also poor peasants are working class. Working class != Proletarian Vanguard.

>>2263880
>>2264094
Labor aristocracy is used interchangeably with petit-bourgeois or middle-class, though it's used by idiots who are allergic to saying the latter for some reason.

>A prostitute is not a prole but a prostitute is typically still working class.
Sure, but under a communist context working class means proletarian strictly.

>Working class != Proletarian Vanguard.
The vanguard is the most advanced section of the proletariat.

>The same goes with unemployed people.
…How the FUCK is being unemployed working class?

>>2264639
>The vanguard is the most advanced section of the proletariat.

and yet we have had historical situations where the leader of the vanguard party was not proletarian (Mao, Lenin, Castro)

>>2264696
rofl ok except neither mao nor castro had communist programs during and after the revolution

>>2264697
>Mao and Castro weren't Communist! Only Lenin was!
OK he was still a lawyer and middle peasant and professional revolutionary who never did productive wage labor, which was my point.
>Communist programs
Lenin did "war communism" 1918-1921 which was more of a civil-wartime state of emergency measure than communism, then backed off of that after the civil war, then did the NEP which was semi-restoration of capitalism on a temporary basis, and then died of his strokes before the NEP was rolled back under Stalin. I don't think Lenin really had the chance to do "Communist programs". He died too early.

Anyways, it's not a state of affairs to be established. You know that. I know that. Everyobody knows that.

California State University students wage hunger strike against Gaza genocide
On May 5, 25 students from San Francisco State, Sacramento State, Long Beach State, and San Jose State universities in California launched a hunger strike under the banner of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), to oppose mass starvation as part of the genocide in Gaza. “We refuse to be complicit in the Israeli occupation’s siege on Gaza, which has left countless Palestinians suffering from malnourishment, disease, and death,” they declared in a statement.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/05/12/zbwd-m12.html

FEMA cuts emergency training under Trump as hurricane season looms
- The U.S. federal disaster agency FEMA has sharply reduced training for state and local emergency managers ahead of the start of the hurricane season on June 1, according to current and former officials, memos seen by Reuters, and three sources familiar with the situation.
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/fema-cuts-emergency-training-hurricane-season-looms-2025-05-11/

US House tax committee unveils partial tax plan to achieve Trump agenda
The 28-page proposal by the House Ways and Means Committee would increase the child tax credit from $1,000 to $2,500 through 2028 and to $2,000 after, and adds a requirement for recipients to have a Social Security number and reduces some taxes for multinational companies and unincorporated businesses.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-tax-committee-unveils-partial-tax-plan-achieve-trump-agenda-2025-05-10/

Michigan father and green card holder spent nearly two months in ICE detention
An Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent pulled him aside at the Detroit Metro Airport and asked him about a 2018 charge for using marijuana. Unable to recall the specifics of the incident, the officer confiscated Oberoi’s green card and told him to come back with the police report.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

CP of Bangladesh, CPB expresses concern over India-Pakistan military tensions
CPB President Md. Shah Alam and General Secretary Ruhin Hossain Prince said in this statement that the reactionary bourgeois ruling classes of both India and Pakistan are responsible for this horrific rise in religious extremism and terrorism. They create or incite these terrorist incidents for their own narrow political interests. The brutal killings and terrorism in Pahelgam are no exception to this. CPB always upholds its strong position against religious extremism and terrorism.
http://www.solidnet.org/article/CP-of-Bangladesh-CPB-expresses-concern-over-India-Pakistan-military-tensions/

CPI(M) in the All Party Meeting
In the context of the government reporting that the ‘intended objectives of the Operation are achieved’, Brittas pointed out that given the past experience, it is doubtful, if such military action will be able to target and eliminate terrorist groups. He emphasized that the government should continue pursuing diplomatic actions and build international pressure to bring the terrorists to book. It should see that the situation does not escalate. He urged the government to ensure the protection of the people in the border areas and also to provide all required assistance to those who are affected by the situation. He asked the government to place all the facts before the people and counter the spread of all kinds of misinformation.
https://peoplesdemocracy.in/2025/0511_pd/cpim-all-party-meeting

The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin Chapter 5: Food
If the coming Revolution is to be a Social Revolution, it will be distinguished from all former uprisings not only by its aim, but also by its methods. To attain a new end, new means are required. The three great popular movements which we have seen in France during the last hundred years differ from each other in many ways, but they have one common feature. In each case the people strove to overturn the old regime, and spent their heart’s blood for the cause. Then, after having borne the brunt of the battle, they sank again into obscurPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

tybna

No, the question is, with economic division of labor a la Ricardo, with some countries providing services, others providing industrial goods, still others providing raw materials, and finally some providing prostitutes, do we have a racial and ethnic economic system?

>>2263447
The Varna system is correct when you allegorize it, it's a simple fact based on the division of labour and the inclinations and aptitude of individuals considered as a whole

>>2264481
Yes, they all serve whitey so whitey can provide breeding stock for black kings

>>2263447
>>2264481
Yeah this. Pretty much a system of global apartheid, each country with their own different economic social divisions (bourgeoisie, proles, etc).

>>2264515

Any books I should read on this?

>>2264537
that's not completely right, in a great extent, I'd say the opposite is closer to the reality. people like Gaidar were sidelined, and eventually they left Russia, because Russia abandoned the neoliberalization of Russia for nato's benefit. and that exploded in 2022.
there are still some, though.

>>2264537
Don't understand how this would be a class conflict then, a group which would become a dominant class forming.
Also not sure how one would actually deal with this if it was the case other than more purity/mandarin tests.

>>2264554
It is class conflict because it's outside capitalist influence infiltrating the party and changing the direction the party was taking. Revisionism is violence coming from the external capitalist world being wielded against the proletarian state by infiltration of the party. It's not about purity or anything like that, it's about maintaining a consistent party program which was decided on by the workers.

>>2264163
Gorbachev is just as true as the image says. A local man ruins everything. Gorby's political decisions were objectively terrible.

>>2264587
nta but if one single dumb fuck could ruin everything then the soviet union had gigantic issues in the way it was organized, china surpassed the soviet union long ago by simply never creating the conditions for a gorbachev to exist

>>2264456
not only that but it shows the pointlessness of this imaginary class analysis not based on any particular place or moment. a family that got a house subsidized by the state and isn't allowed to pass it to their children, sell it, rent it, or otherwise speculate with it, will have different interest from the family that owns a house but is paying a mortgage or from the family that owns a house and can do whatever they want with it. they might all be salaried workers but they will have different political positions

>>2261702
I mean some people who talk like this just don't like the modern world and want to RETRN. But it's, like, all that is holy ends up being profaned anyways.

I can be convinced that a lot of the post-war cultural transformation is a lot different than what socialists thought they were fighting for in the 1920s, but often the "anti-idpol" types just chalk it up to some kind of conspiracy rather than trying to work out a material analysis of why this really radical cultural revolution (you might call it) actually did happen. It hasn't affected all parts of the world evenly and there are variations but it can be tracked more or less across the entire modernizing globe.

Really it's just people having more autonomy because of urbanization and improvements in technology (just think about the impact of communications technology) and transportation so people move around a lot more. There has been an increase in purchasing power relative to people living 100 years ago. There are material prerequisites which made big changes in culture possible – which would not have been possible before – and has influenced everything from music to fashion and that is global. And these changes hit modernizing societies very rapidly in historical terms (within a span of a few decades as opposed to centuries where nothing changes) which produces a lot of young people growing up in a very different context from their parents and grandparents, and have no memory or shared experience of what life was like before [insert modern technology here].

Also something can be "bourgeois" and also get appropriated by the working class. Working-class people have at various times taken their styles from high fashion in the upper social strata, working-class girls even more so. It also works the other way with the upper strata trying to LARP as working and class and the spread of American blue jeans as Paris haute couture went into retreat.

marx does actual class analysis in the eighteenth brumaire because he doesn't try to clumsily pigeonhole the different political forces into the stupid, reductionist model from OP's image

>>2261702
>>2264447
If a proletarian revolution happened and the stock and housing market crash, do they have solidarity with the workers or bemoan the devaluation of their reserves? Don't these reserves constitute a stake in bourgeois society that they have to protect? Reason you dimwit.

>>2264522
>If a proletarian revolution happened and the stock and housing market crash, do they have solidarity with the workers or bemoan the devaluation of their reserves?
Solidarity with workers is still in their class interests.
>Don't these reserves constitute a stake in bourgeois society that they have to protect?
Kinda? It also constitutes a resource, which can be useful.
>Reason you dimwit.
You first.

>>2264362
>Illegalism is lumpen "socialism."
the bolsheviks robbed banks
>Trade unions are labor aristocracy "socialism."
radical trade unions supplement the revolutionary movement
>Worker co-operatives are petty-bourgeois "socialism."
worker cooperatives can be merged and become worker monopolies under a socialist state
>But reformism never works
Reforms happen after revolution, not before. It's not that reforms "don't work" it's that the ruling class blocks them if they are in any way threatening. Only after revolution can the vanguard party oversee a process of gradually and carefully changing and planning society
>and you'll probably die in a revolution.
the goal isn't to die for your cause, it's to make the other guy die for his… but yes, some of your team WILL die. the likelihood of a bloodless victory is very small. The revolutionary generation fights and dies so that subsequent generations don't have to.

Regardless of labels all the shit you mentioned is impotent at best.

>>2264392
>communists did Y, ergo doing Y is communist
Amazing levels of discourse here.

>>2264390
>>2264392
https://clarion.unity-struggle-unity.org/2023-08-13-undead-unionism/
Trade unions are not social unions.
Also I meant the specific Anarchist tendency of Illegalism, not all illegal acts whatsoever.

Anyhow I'm more and more convinced that the best way to get anywhere in the imperial core is to buy cheap consumer goods from China and Vietnam.

>>2264517
>Also I meant the specific Anarchist tendency of Illegalism, not all illegal acts whatsoever.
Aka doing illegal acts while wearing the anarchist badge.