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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1719070703354.png (3.15 KB, 290x174, images.png)

 [Reply]

This small central american country has some particular characteristics which IMO make it potentially revolutionary:
>No army. This means that the violent repression on the population is weak
>Police is not heavily armed. Population can fight square against it. No history of cops shooting civilians
>This means USA cant use proxy to murder the population. Sending troops to a country without army means international outrage (hopefully)
>Plan: attack the core of capitalism and imperialism: return the lands to the native populations and expell the multinational fruit companies (Dole, Chiquita, etc). Inspire and help workers of banana, pineapple and coffee plantations to rebel and seize the means of production.

The key here is no army.

 

Problem is if you go back to history the communist party there defended the racist pre-civil war government, so propaganda will just say theyre trying to take citizenship away from black people and women. Plus there's just a general cycncism about any and all political solutions to Latin America's problems.

 

>>1892076
Biggest problem in Costa Rica is the lack of a socialist movement. Historically there was never one, which ironically saved it from US intervention (unlike Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador).

Socialism and communism are highly demonized. And anarchism is basically non-existent.

 

>>1892083
>istorically there was never one,
Most of the civil war on the government side was fought by People's Vanguard Party militias though, unless you consider them revisionist traitors I don't see how they don't count

 

>>1892085
It has always been a very small party. Negligible.
Nothing comparable to Chile's Allende or Cuba's Castro

 

>>1892076
What if we just did the communism without the party? Ever thought about that Leniuyghurs?



File: 1718210168344-0.jpg (79 KB, 502x512, Sukhbaatar.jpg)

 [Reply]

Is there any information on Sükhbaatar and the revolution? And what do Mongolians think of socialism in general? I'm guessing that they lean positively, since Sükhbaatar still has a statue dedicated to him.
7 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 


 

found this OP

 

>>1887202
I fundamentally agree. It would be patronising for someone not from Mongolia to open a /mongolia/ general, tho. I started the first /ita/ back on 8chan about 2018 - ffs, time flies… - then we have the /sea/ one, the Brazilian one - very lively and always full of oi caralho -, /britpol/, the German one, the Nordic one… And I'm forgetting some for sure. They've all been started by people from those places and they are often in the relevant language. Let's hope some Mongolian anon will pop back here soon and do the thing. Interestingly, there are Mongolian speaking peoples both in Russia and China, and IIRC they exceed in numbers the actual inhabitants of modern Mongolia. I also think some /heartland/ general about Central Asia would be really interesting, just like /sea/ and maybe it would be an even better solution, considering anons from every single country in the region may be relatively few, but all together things could be more interesting.

 

>>1887331
> It would be patronising for someone not from Mongolia to open a /mongolia/ general, tho
not necessarily. if you want to attract mongolian anons to the board having a place for them might be a good start. You could open a thread with full disclosure that you're not mongolian and then let someone actually mongolian take over managing the threads once the ball is rolling. I very highly doubt /ukr/ is managed by ukainians or russians.


Also I looked on libgen for books about sukhbataar and found nothing

 


Might be of interest.



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 [Reply][Last 50 Posts]

An intriguing thread which explores why the general public often fails to grasp the true essence of a 'bad' character and how often leftists unintentionally undermine themselves by portraying said characters with qualities that appeal to the average person
406 posts and 128 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>>1891730
Preference as a concept can't be wiped out. And there's also another aspect, if physical attractiveness wasn't a factor, I don't think it'd really better the standing of most here.

 

>>1891902
>Preference as a concept can't be wiped out
government assigned gf

 

>>1891936
I see your proposal and raise you
Stabbing you in the neck

 

Maybe it wasn't clear. In a scenario where someone is forced to be your "partner".
I dare say the morally correct choice and correct course of action is to exsanguinate you like halal meat.
Seems pretty uncontroversial.

 

>>1891937
government assigned neck



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File: 1718064956095-1.png (113.12 KB, 543x840, ClipboardImage.png)

 [Reply]

Scratch a liberal or conservative and a fascist bleeds? True but entirely beside the point.

Scratch a fascist and the bourgeoisie bleeds. Scratch a reformist and the bourgeoisie bleeds. That's the heart of it. Fascists and reformists aren't the same thing, but one paves the road that the other will drive on. This is why certain reactionaries and revisionists think that LGBT rights or whatever is fascism. No. It's reformism. What is reformism? It's the bourgeoisie backpedaling and giving concessions. Why do they do this? So you let your guard down. Social democratic concessions to the working class and other forms of reform (like civil rights for marginalized groups) are not the bread and butter of fascism itself, but they are the bait that the bourgeoisie lays before letting loose the fascist hounds. Both reformers, whether bourgeois or not, and fascists, whether bourgeois or not, are controlled by the bourgeoisie. This is an important distinction. Reformism is the left hand strategy of the bourgeoisie in decline. Fascism is the right hand status of the bourgeoisie in decline. The bourgeoisie treats you like a dog, fills your bowl with reforms with their left hand, and while your head is bowed and you are eating from your bowl, they take out a club called fascism with their right hand and they beat you on the head. But ultimately neither the reformers nor the fascists are in control. The bourgeoisie is still in control. And just like the bourgeoisie does away with reformists when they are done using them, they also do away with fascists when they are done using them. That is why the bourgeois governments of western Europe united against Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW. Not because they were fundamentally opposed to fascism itself, but because they were done using the fascists.

A underappreciated work that explains this in great detail, and which I think needs to be revisited by the modern left, is "Fascism and Social Revolution" by Rajani Palme Dutt

https://www.marxists.org/archive/dutt/1935/fascism-social-revolution-3.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKnZvrTss20&list=PLXUFLW8t2snvIhgGnlNDzE4dtM8f1hQa7
15 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>Social Democracy Is The Moderate Wing of Fascism
People say Stalin was wrong for saying this and retracted this statement later on but I think he was wrong to do so for the reasons outlined in OP

 

File: 1719068317962.png (2.02 MB, 1279x2799, Keynes.png)

>>1892061
Social Democracy is the moderate wing of AES

 

>>1892063
reactions are spot on lmao

 

File: 1719075256381.png (144.14 KB, 806x290, ludwig von mises.png)

>>1892063
of course the Mises thinktank is going to make Keynes sound cooler than he was

 

>>1882309
This is basically conspiratorial thinking. Fascists and reformists are quite different groups of people, with quite different values and motivations. Most of you probably remember being a reformist. You remember that you weren't secretly trying to "bait" the working class so that you could "let loose the fascist hounds". You were driven by ideological motivations, exactly as you are now!
>both reformers and fascists are controlled by the bourgeoisie
How? Give any evidence for your claims. This whole post feels like you just decided that it was true because it was convenient to your ideology to be able to handwave away all dissent as being fascistic. Like when you say this:
>That is why the bourgeois governments of western Europe united against Hitler and ᴉuᴉlossnW. Not because they were fundamentally opposed to fascism itself, but because they were done using the fascists
What makes you think that there was no ideological opposition to fascism within the bourgeois governments of Western Europe? The obvious answer for why Western Europe united against Hitler is because he tried to invade and take over their countries and murder them! Many of these governments were run by liberals, who believe in things that are pretty contradictory to what fascists believe. Haven't you ever met a liberal? People have sincere and non-cynical ideological disagreements with each other. One of the most common failure modes of political thought is to assume that all of your political opponents share your worldview, but merely ally themselves with The Enemy rather than The Good Guys. A fascist would say that reformists and communists are the same because they're both on the side of the globalists.

The steelman version of this kind of argument is to say:
"Well, maybe social democrats, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, and fascists all have different BELIEFS, and they don't CONSCIOUSLY all serve the bourgeoisie, but there are large-scale material forces which shape ideologies, and these material forces cause ideologies to converge towards the class interest of the bourgeoisie." I've heard this argument before. But it also doesn't convince me. What are these material forces? What is the mechanism that causes these ideologically diverse people towards furthering the class interePost too long. Click here to view the full text.



 [Reply]

thoughts on Robespierre?

I think it was actually based. we need to copy and paste its terror
43 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>>1891920
>not knowing how to embed
it sure is summer in here

 

>>1891594
Depends on what kind of narrative you want about the man. If you want a staunch albeit somewhat inaccurate historiography you cannot go wrong with arch-Robespierrest Albert Mathiez's body of work. Albert Soboul goes is a much more traditional Marxist and his chronicle of the French Revolution details the breakdown of the Jacobin's ability to realize their promises to Sans-Culottes.

As for modern historians. There are a handful who wrote books exclusively on Robespierre.

Scurr's Fatal Purity is absolute dogshit, reliant on secondary sources, but as a work of fiction it presents romantic tragedy about Robespierre. Although, she does make use of Robe's sister's memoir a lot which gives a kind of intimate look at him.

Robespierre: A Revolutionary Life by Peter McPhee is more balanced and rather bland as a result. But does a decent job tracing his career from Arras and his defense of the poor to a member of the Public Security Council.

The Fall of Robespierre: 24 Hours in Revolutionary by Colin Jones focuses entirely on the 9th of thermidor and relies on primary source documents. It's also strangely pro-Robespierre despite front-loading with a lot of character flaws. It highlights he made an effort to out-maneuver his enemies, but like the French Marxists, the text concludes Robespierre's idealism let down the people of Paris at a critical moment.

Honorable mentions: R.R Palmer's Twelve Who Ruled. About the security council itself and has a real boner for Couthon (who is underappreciated.) Zizek's essay: https://www.lacan.com/zizrobes.htm arguably the last good thing he wrote. Also attached Saint-Just's bio because he made a conscious choice to go to Robespierre on the 9th of Thermidor despite the Security Council offering him a way out.

 

>>1887972
> 'I accept your recommendation, but you shall be one of the victims'
Didn't Robespierre acknowledged this point and accepted it solemnly?

 

>>1891986
Both in his famous speech Virtue and Terror and in his conclusion to the Jacobin club.
>The speech that you have heard is my last will and testament. I have seen today that the league of evil-doers is too strong for me to hope to escape. It is without regrets that I succumb. I leave you my memory. It will be dear to you; you will defend it. And if I succumb, well, my friends, you will see me drink hemlock in calm.
It is one of the of the supporting planks to the idea he did try to kill himself, although, there is a body convictions suggesting he was shot during the storming of the club.

 

>>1891049
>>1891049
>socialist with keynesian characteristics
so a liberal alright



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 [Reply]

Why do liberals pretend to be "socially progressive" when they're obviously not?
I've heard these things a lot:
>I'm not racist, but those Indians should go back to their country!
>I'm not against LGBT people, but it's gone too far and if it was my kid I'd disown them!
I don't get it, why can't you just admit you're against these things?
23 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>>1890900
>so you have very entitled modi voters living in canada feeling some sort of pride by being proletarized and proletarizing canadians while also displaying this passive-agressive hostility towards them as if we were some conquerors lol

 

>>1891578
>I don't know why its so common for young immigrants to think this
Coping maybe?

 

>>1891458
GENEVA (AP) — An Indian-born billionaire and three family members were sentenced to prison on Friday for exploiting domestic workers at their lakeside villa in Switzerland by seizing their passports, barring them from going out and making them work up to 18 hours a day.

A Swiss court dismissed more serious charges of human trafficking against 79-year-old tycoon Prakash Hinduja; his wife, Kamal; son Ajay and daughter-in-law Namrata on the grounds that the workers understood what they were getting into, at least in part. The four received between four and 4 1/2 years in prison.

The workers were mostly illiterate Indians who were paid not in Swiss francs but in Indian rupees, deposited in banks back home that they couldn’t access.

Prosecutors said workers described a “climate of fear” instituted by Kamal Hinduja. They were forced to work with little or no vacation time, and worked even later hours for receptions. They slept in the basement, sometimes on a mattress on the floor.

https://apnews.com/article/hinduja-switzerland-geneva-human-trafficking-exploitation-india-b0a40f9872ea096c4722754c1267490b#:~:text=GENEVA%20(AP)%20—%20A%20Swiss,severe%20charges%20of%20human%20trafficking.

 

>>1891403
Vietnam took SU side in Sino-Soviet split
The clinic for transgender children in China is hosted by a liberal university in Shanghai
Cuba is collapsing right now
DPRK doesn't have pornography or prostitution, and even public displays of affections are frowned upon, which means that homosexual relations are most likely extremely rare

 

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>>1890859
The problem with liberal progressivity is that they tolerate other ethinicities, sexual minorities, etc. who have money and are part of upper class. If you are poor working class liberals dont care about your human rights.



 [Reply][Last 50 Posts]

>How will we get people to understand the urgency of climate change and the need to take drastic action to lower carbon emissions?
>I know, let's vandalize a World Heritage Site and potentially cause permanent damage
How the fuck is this supposed to make people take climate change seriously? I was ambivalent towards attacks on art pieces because maybe the idea is that rich and powerful people frequent those galleries, but what the fuck is vandalizing Stonehenge supposed to achieve other that causing animosity towards the climate movement? This is feeling more and more like a falseflag and psyop meant to discredit the climate movement and make them like idiot fanatics.
141 posts and 20 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>>1891555
The issue is isn't that it isn't immediately effective.

It's that it's never effective and is arguably brings animosity to the movement. You bring up nuclear disarmament protests. It's been many decades now, where's the nuclear disarmament?

 

>>1891565
Psyops don't typically announce themselves as such.

You'll find that the old COINTELPRO cutouts didn't openly announce "we're being run by the CIA to spy on you, manufacture reasons to arrest you and discredit your movement, just fyi"

 

>>1891441 (samefag)
>averting the climate crisis requires sacrifices to the western lifestyle
>these sacrifices will never happen if the rich aren't forced to also make these sacrifices
>/leftypol/ of all places uninterested in forcing porky to also make these sacrifices
it's ovir. fuck it let's roll coal

 

>>1890539
fpbp
Yep, OP is a concern troll. I can tell by the indignated but nonproductive tone and from having seen a few concern trolls in my time
sage this shit and off to the climate thread we go, hey ho

 

>>1891503
if you don't believe money can be used for historically progressive causes you've fallen prey to idealism, sorry.
remember engels? :^)



File: 1719026799071.jpeg (Spoiler Image, 60.63 KB, 570x572, IMG_1416.jpeg)

 [Reply]

As a communist What is your stance on immunization are you pro or anti-vax and what would Mao say about it?
2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 

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I am a big fan of the VAX line of computers from Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC). The VAX family was a huge success for DEC, with the last members arriving in the early 1990s. The name VAX refers to its Virtual Address eXtension concept that allowed programs to make use of this newly available memory while still being compatible with unmodified user mode PDP-11 code. The name "VAX-11", used on early models, was chosen to highlight this capability. DEC quickly dropped the −11 branding as PDP-11 compatibility was no longer a major concern. The line expanded to both high-end mainframes like the VAX 9000 as well as to the workstation-scale systems like the VAXstation series. The VAX family ultimately contained ten distinct designs and over 100 individual models in total. All of them were compatible with each other and normally ran the VAX/VMS operating system.

 

chinese vaxx is cool.

nontheless i think the pandemics quarantine were a meme the US and western governments pushed to propell social media

 

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>>1891861
>what would Mao say about it?
Pasteur discovered the existence of viruses which made it possible for him to develop the first vaccine. Similarly, it's because Mao discovered the laws operating within socialist society that give rise to the bourgeois line in the party that he was able to develop the policies, the strategy and tactics, to defeat the bourgeois line and various bourgeois headquarters, not once but repeatedly.

 

Basically think of Maoism as a vaccine against revisionism. It works on the herd immunity principle. You need to inoculate everyone against it because even a few capitalist-roaders can cause an outbreak. People can disagree privately but laws should compel them to conform with the science here.

 

g



 [Reply]

Armenia recognises Palestinian statehood, says Armenian foreign ministry
Armenia supports a United Nations resolution on an immediate ceasefire in Israel's war with Hamas in Gaza and is in favour of a two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, a ministry statement said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/armenia-recognises-palestinian-statehood-says-armenian-foreign-ministry-2024-06-21/

Workers at a Levi's supplier factory in Turkey subjected to ‘violence, mass sackings and blacklisting’
The report accuses Ozak Global, the provincial security forces and the company’s favoured union, of having been complicit in “violence, arrests and retaliatory mass firings against roughly 400 workers, after the majority of the facility’s workforce chose to join an independent union” since last November.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/workers-levis-supplier-factory-turkey-subjected-violence-mass-sackings-and-blacklisting

Third consecutive day | Turkish forces continue to reinforce contact lines with regime forces within “Putin-Erdogan” area
Yesterday, Turkish forces brought military reinforcements for the second consecutive day to “Putin-Erdogan” area, where a military convoy comprising 22 military machineries including tanks and armoured vehicles entered and headed to Turkish positions in Al-Zawiyah Mountain.
https://www.syriahr.com/en/336837/
https://archive.is/YKlsA

Le Pen’s Party Gains Support in Poll; Macron Approval Drops
A poll by Ifop-Fiducial for Sud Radio found that 38% of those interviewed want the National Rally to win, and increase of two points from June 10, the day after Macron announced a snap vote. An alliance of left parties, the New Popular Front, was in second place with 29% backing, unchanged. Support for Macron’s party and its allies rose to 22% from 18%.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>>1891826
>Sean O’Brien, the president of the Teamsters union, will speak at the Republican national convention in Milwaukee next month
it's over

 

>>1891826
>Sean O’Brien, the president of the Teamsters union, will speak at the Republican national convention in Milwaukee next month, a move that could spell trouble for Joe Biden’s support among blue-collar workers ahead of the November election.
MAGAcom bros, I kneel

 

A Jailed Socialist in Turkey Calls for Solidarity With Gaza By Alp Altınörs
ISIS, who committed genocide against the Yezidis in Shingal on August 3, 2014, and before that had carried out a genocide against the Turkmen of Tel Afar, could not do the same in Kobani. It did not let itself be written into history as a city that suffered the pain of genocide — and instead became known as the city that stopped ISIS. Today, the world is witnessing another genocide: the one perpetrated by Israel against the Palestinian people in Gaza. The Israelis want to annex Gaza and expel its Palestinian population (just as they did in the Nakba of 1948). Let us recall what Naomi Klein wrote about disaster capitalism. Once again, a part of the Palestinian homeland will be filled with settlements by the occupation forces. The pain and suffering of the Palestinians will be transformed into profits for Israeli monopolies. Those who upheld the democratic protests against the ISIS genocide in Kobani yesterday, today come out against Israel’s genocide in Gaza. The universities of the United States are raising their voices against this barbarism. When there is a genocide ongoing, to watch in silence is also a crime. We who ten years ago tried to prevent a genocide unfolding before our eyes, are today punished with prison sentences in this political trial.
https://jacobin.com/2024/06/socialist-jail-turkey-solidarity-gaza

The New Popular Front in France and the balance of class forces
FRANCE is in a deep systemic crisis of the kind that has punctuated its history with violent eruptions. We index them by the years in which they took place from 1789 onwards. The panicked election for the National Assembly called by President Emmanuel Macron following his party’s humiliation in the European elections, means France in three weeks could have: a fascist prime minister, or a prime minister on a left programme that bosses are screaming is “anti-capitalist,” or no prime minister plus chaos in the government. All with eruptions on the street bigger than those already taking place. Hundreds of thousands protested at the weekend against Marine Le Pen and her far-right National Rally (RN) that topped the European election. Polling for the legislative election is volatile. The RN is at about 32 per cent. Macron’Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

 

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Thanks News Anon

 

Tybna



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 [Reply]

Communism doesn't work because people won't work if the state provides everything, that's fact. Why would anyone want to innovate and study? Why would one study to become a physician when he'll end up winning the same amount as someone who doesn't do shit? Communism ends up in famine and misery because of this
4 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 

>Communism doesn't work because people won't work if the state provides everything, that's fact.
<It is ordered that adults capable of working, not wishing to perform their most important constitutional duty, the duty to work honestly in accordance with their abilities, and avoiding socially useful work… shall be subjected to banishment by order of a county (city) people’s court to specially designated places for a term of from two to five years, with confiscation of the property acquired by non-toiling means
-Soviet anti-parasitism law 1961 https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1961-2/anti-parasite-law/anti-parasite-law-texts/law-against-parasites/
>Why would anyone want to innovate and study? Why would one study to become a physician when he'll end up winning the same amount as someone who doesn't do shit?
One's payment in socialist societies was a factor of the hours worked, their experience, the hazards associated with a job, and the education needed to perform their job, so a teacher made more than a taxi driver and a factory worker with 20 years experience made more than one with 5 years. Getting a good education was also a means of moving somewhere better, performing well in your classes or getting a good job could allow you to move from the village to a provincial town, or from a provincial town to a major city.
>Communism ends up in famine and misery because of this
Those post-socialist provincial towns and villages are in misery because of capitalism. Take a drive down certain rural areas and it'll look like you wandered into a post-apocalyptic environment, with the only industries in sight being cafes and car washes for tourists.

 


 

>>1891796
haha funny monkey

 


 

File: 1719040939176.webm (2.91 MB, 1280x720, WINNER.webm)

>>1891796
monke is more intelligent than OP



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