/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2785232
So you're saying like, that a new middle strata always becomes the next ruling class instead of creating a 1 class society or a or 0 class society? That's like zeno's paradox but with classes instead of distance.

>>2785232
Well of course you can't abolish exploitation why would anyone be hired just to produce enough to support themselves. But under communism society exploits you instead of capitalists.

>>2785677
>But under communism society exploits you instead of capitalists.
but vulgar marxists don't usually read the gothakritik and understand this

>>2785232
>the neepalz are the buttons
i want to peench them

>>2785757
idk, europeans built several short-lived states in occupied palestine back then too
some things never change

>>2785728
the truth is, life is unfair, it doesn't care about you or anyone. it rewards some and punishes others for no reason.
life is absurd.
if life is absurd, and you succumb to nihilism, why not just kill yourself?
you need to view life from the perspective of "What keeps you alive" not "Why not just die", you must fight the absurdity of life with your rebellious absurdity.

>>2785771
Someone’s read their french

>>2785289
>I am scared im succumbing to Nihilism

sometimes it feels like humanity will never be chill and have communism because sociopaths will always conspire to give themselves any kind of relative advantage, escalation dominance, ability to exploit others, monopoly on violence, etc.

>>2785974
That's why you kill all sociopaths. Treat them like sapient malignant tumors.

>>2784743
Many communists forget what Engels wrote about the United States where workers have to have their revolutionary socialist party independent of the bourgeoisie without being co-opted by republicans, democrats or libertarians.

<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.

<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/letters/86_11_29.htm

Now with the quotes from Marx and Engels that it is necessary to remember:

<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

You’d need a framework for it to spread that quickly, it’s heavily divided among different nations currently.

Personally I’m thinking maybe France would have the best chance. The USA is up in the air.

>Reverse 1989
Doubt it. 1989 was a domino effect that at best wouldn't have been a socialist catastrophic if the USSR didn't kill itself in 1991. The Warsaw Pact countries could have remained neutral and not a part of NATO if the Soviet Union was around. For example Poland didn't join until 1999. At best Eastern Europe would have been ran by some Eurocommunist trying to balance East and West. What I am trying to say is that 1989 was unique and a black swan event. A reverse 1989 would be trying to find something even more out of the blue than a black swan

>>2785092
GREAT post.

>>2784743
You need a functioning communist party for a revolution to happen at the very least.

>>2739736
Anon I…

>>2739736
She’s just building up the productive forces

Anything new recently?

>>2672346
obligatory

Delcy is a sell out

>>2784767
This tbh, at least when you've seized state power your guy has something to boast about. Otherwise it's like uhhhhh our guy has like uhhhh really good ideas or smt

>>2785026
>the ACP is more akin to blackhammer than the avakian RCP
it's way more akin to lyndon larouche.

How the fuck is Avakian still alive?

We need to organise cagefight between Haz and Avakian

>>2744799
>>2744837
>>2785026
>>2785336
>>2785336
Not a single western leftist group has ever come close to the level of political recognition the ACP has achieved. Most of them have floundered in academia. Comparing Haz and Hinkle to those groups is an insult, they’re leading the revolution

Does Bookchin actually advance a political economy that does away with wages, commodities, private property, etc? Been a while since I read him but from what I remember he was mostly focused on the politics side of things, not economics.

>>2785113
You can't deal with bourgeoisie and capitalist relations single-handedly, it's impossible to achieve socialism in one country alone so otherwise we need proletarian party which can abolish bourgeoisie state and implement new worker's state (DoTP) and since there's still a class division and contradictions there's a need for state which has to suppress any bourgeoisie oppossition.

You can't achieve le communistic relations in one commune alone if you don't want to starve your people, and even if you do create le anarchist (state) commune then it's impossible for it to be in any way a communistic society because it still has to trade with external countries, produce commodities and even has remaining elements of petite-bourgeoisie, every example of anarchism did at best implement radical democracy petite-bourgeoisie state in small area.

Creating counter-hegemonies or other quasi-states which are suppossed to challenge bourgeoisie state, in reality it doesn't actually challenge it and even just conservates it by preventing any means of organising a proletariat in order to overthrow existing state of being.

>>2785450
>But modern anarchism has become too individualistic, trapped under a philosophy that doesn’t allow any sort of organized action as it is considered authoritarian.
Isn't that why Makhno and co split with other anarchists to found platformism?

>>2785450
>Their theory just says to wait for the right moment

This doesn't mean that communist parties aren't actively organising itself and expanding their influence or/and connections among proletariat.

Revolution isn't something that party can trigger at any moment but can lead it.

>Trotsky himself said that if WW2 didn’t trigger a revolutionary response by the workers, a new strategy must be found.

I think Trotsky was wrong, and even if he was right then what strategy we should adopt according to you?

>>2785512
You keep mention the class division as a reason for a proletarian state (which always becomes another bourgeoisie state) as needed. But history shows the elite always flees during a revolution (Cuba, Rojava, Venezuela, etc.). There are other ways to uphold a revolution that don’t involve a State, like Communalism (Rojava, Zapatistas, Makhnoschvina,etc.). Although I agree not being recognized as a State is problematic in the current situation. This has caused Rojava problems as it’s not a state, technically speaking
>>2785515
Yes. Makhno even exchanged letters with Malatesta arguing that anarchism was philosophically strong but organizationally weak. And this problem has plagued anarchism since its inception.
>>2785516
Isn’t that the one million dollar question? The way I see it we need to create a base for workers to rely on, so they are more willing to take risks (such as being fired for starting a syndicate, not having savings, etc.). This base is the community, communalism, solidarity among its members.

In order to protect the popular assemblies from State power, the syndicates threaten by striking. It’s a mutual support between communalism and syndicates, without the need if a vanguard party or authoritarianism.

The problem is it’s too ambitious and it’s technically an attrition war against the State

>>2784903
The only thing that changed the result was your answers, so you’re the inconsistent one.

>>2785479
True, but when I gave the test to friends I noticed that they would answer based on who they want to be rather than what they are actually like. That’s a potential problem for every test.

>>2781290
Why is this even allowed in /leftypol/ instead if si/b/eria?

>>2785429
That's ok.

>>2785390
I think there is quite a bit of value to be had in the original Jungian definition of the types but even then he mostly just focused on introvert/extrovert stuff.
Albeit being an introvert is less about being a loner and more about being subjective overall while an extrovert is someone who seeks to be objective.

>>2784869
tmk Bahrain has a large section of there proletarian class thats a shia underclass and permanent residents

Some others may have already mentioned these details but just to reiterate, almost all of those workers are South Asian or African manual labourers who are never treated as anything more (never given citizenship nor allowed to leave their jobs or those countries to go back home), so yeah even a hint of non-compliance or dissent amongst them would be met with absolute terror. NOt to mention the vast majority of them are uneducated men whose families rely on the money they send back, and given the lack of opportunities in their 3rd world home countries (along with the other factors), the lot of them haven't really got a bloody choice than just to work those 16 hour days. the fall of the juche is more likely in our lifetime than proletarian revolution in the gulf

>>2784881
bahrain had also large protests (and might still have) that needed to be suppressed by using kuwait troops lol

>>2784880
kek based

>>2784881
Eastern Saudi Arabia also has a large Shi'a community but we don't hear much about them.

>>2785145
>because losing status and wealth and going back to the level of a worker is a fate worse than death
even under socialism?

>>2785150
in the building stages of socialism life still sucks, it is hopeful for the workers but not really hopeful for the ones that got their shit took

>go from enjoying vast profits, a life of luxury and status to being an average joe working their ass off with constant back pain
<"damn this shit sucks"
>"but look on the bright side, we are lifting so much people out of povery and increasing literacy"
<"I don't give a shit, I want my shit back, I don't like work"

>>2785150
especially under socialism

>>2784271
Retarded framing like this is the only thing that kulaks and anticommunists have to counter communist arguments for progress.

First of all, kulaks didn't own the land, they leased it. Revolution brought about kulaks to actually own the land they worked. Land owners got their land confiscated in favor of local councils, which then provided the land as needed to the peasantry - kulaks included

Next, grain wasn't confiscated, it was sold to government at fixed prices, with sales to the market forbidden UNTIL the government quota was fulfilled. Also, grain hoarding in the area was punished with grain taken away from hoarders and redistributed without compensation for free, to destroy speculative pricing.

Collectivization was infiltrated by kulaks initially, who viewed it as a way to centralize rural resources in their hands. Many collective farms were disbanded for this reason, so that collective farms' power base be not rich households but rather a collective of poor farmers pooling their resources. "Forced" collectivization happened only in anticommunist propaganda, it was more like the adoption of electricity and machinery, a movement for progress and treated as such. Reactionaries - such as kulaks who clung to manual labor on their fields - got really pissy about it and wanted to restore old relations, because tractor was much, much cheaper and much, much more efficient than horses and working the fields by hand, and kulaks couldn't compete fairly. Also, you can see from statistics how collectivization decimated horse populations, because horse eats more in money terms than a tractor, and guess who in the rural area had most horses and who was leasing them to other villagers, lol

Hope this little essay helps you to set your historical knowledge straight!

>>2784479
there's nothing civil about a war

>>2784481
I obviously meant "Civil War or War"

If you have the capacity to conscript the population you are not the revolutionary side anymore

Based pro 2nd amendment Lenin

>An oppressed class which does not strive to learn to use arms, to acquire arms, only deserves to be treated like slaves. - Lenin
I hate these quotes because the USA is the country where everyone use arms and acquire arms and they are one of the most classcucked country in the world, completely incapable of organizing a general strile, not protesting against the war in Iran when it makes their general situation actively worse, I could go on and on.
Meanwhile, proles in other countries just burn shit down and organize strikes when they had enough. Guns are completely useless when you have zero tactics, targeting infrastructure is infintely more important.