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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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What is 6 - 3?

Not reporting is bourgeois

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>people unionize so hard that porkies are forced to reduce working hours from 12 to 8
>100 years later
>the working class hasn't done this again to achieve 4 hour work week

why?
4 posts omitted.

>>2276642
the point of organizing is that the consequences of not giving in are worse and less profitable, 4 hour work day vs constant relentless striking

>>2276643
well it was a big leap in living standards that curently benefit you and millions of people around the globe, don't really care if it was revolutionary, it was earned by the working class not granted by any goverment or good willing porky

another comrade pointed out that cutting the workweek by a day or two would probably be a better approach: gives people more entire days to do things.

Consider that a 2x10hr week would be the same number of working hours as a 5x4hr week, but you're getting 5 days in a row off and only two days you put in time.

>>2276691
oh, also means that you don't spend money on travel or potentially eating fast food lunches etc. and instead do stuff at home.

>>2276685
>the point of organizing is that the consequences of not giving in are worse and less profitable, 4 hour work day vs constant relentless striking
Well that's what I'm thinking has made this hard to push toward, they're already throwing boatloads of money away by not doing a 4 hour work day, a strike doesn't really do anything if profits aren't their primary concern, but vibes.

>>2276630
Bribed to stop violently struggle as a class, propagandized to have false consciousness or garbage interpretations of socialism, so there is no class unity, and all class conscious people, i.e. communists were killed or ostracized.

So the pitiful state of "the left" in the West has been reduced to isn't seen as pitiful, and all their opinions are reducible to hostility to the enemies of the West. That leaves only the option of cutting the West off from cheap resources and labour they depend on to sustain themselves, and shattering their passivity by the jackboot of war, making socialism not a class-conscious choice, but a survival necessity.



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This is like a certified Mark Felton Productions video title.
Imagine what could have been.

>…there was a possibility of developing an independent socialist movement through the fledging Southern Rhodesia Communist Party, which had been formed from radical elements in the Rhodesia Labour Party, and those who had been associated with the South African Communist Party and the Communist Party of Great Britain. But at that time Russia was pushing "Popular Front" unity of all classes, which in Rhodesia meant unity with the white liberals. The price the party had to pay for this unity was to stop the work it had begun with the emerging black working class, as this was deemed antagonistic towards the increasingly racist white labour force. This ultimately destroyed the party, as it divorced it from a real working-class base.


>Parallel to this was the emergence of organisations representing the emerging black petty bourgeoisie, whose agenda was limited to putting pressure on the colonial state to grant more opportunities to certain black Rhodesians. One of the leading organisations was the Southern Rhodesian African National Congress, formed in the 1930s, but until the emergence of the struggles of the black working class in the late 1940s it remained small and largely irrelevant, looking to white reformists for direction and leadership.

https://ivavalleybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Socialists-in-Zimbabwe.pdf

>>2274217
Imagine if they sided with China.

>>2274219
Apartheid South Africa did (third world anti imperialist praxis)

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Wait till you hear about the Rand Revolt and white south african miners lynching both the bourgeoisie and black people



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Will be ready shortly, ask either about books or secondarily about videos.
Preference given to books in reverse order, so Defending Materialism, How the World Works, Economic Planning in time of Climate Crisis, Computation and its Limits, Towards a New Socialism etc
98 posts and 12 image replies omitted.

>>2276548
>If you can get what you need from state shops with your labour credits how would you get it cheaper by people buying stuff in state supermarkets and then engaging in swaps in the supermarket carparks?
If that is the case, is there any point in labour credits being non-transferable? Would their potential tradeability cause any complications to planned economy?

>>2276559
It was a pleasure!

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>>2276559
Thank you for your time.

>>2276559
thank you for answering our questions! sadly mine didn't get answered




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Tuesday, May 20th at 3:00 PM EST/8:00 PM BST
Join known Marxist Computer Scientist Paul Cockshott on an AMA (Ask Me Anything) here at leftypol.org

Post your questions on the forthcoming AMA thread this Tuesday!

Cya there!
108 posts and 21 image replies omitted.

>>2276425
leftypol mods still completely incapable of doing anything cool its so good

>>2276425
its being to move to the actual AMA thread itself

>>2276425
there importing the posts, maybe, i think.
at this point just marge the two threads

>>2276429
Brother where is the AMA thread

>>2276425
they should lock and/or hide this thread
>>2276431
here: >>2276372



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So Lenin's most important contribution to revolutionary Marxism, in defense from revisionists like Kautsky, Bernstein and Co. is his detailed study on capitalist imperialism and petty-bourgeois corruption within the workers movement leading up to the inter-imperialist war (part 1) where these corrupt leaders chose a "lesser evil" side of imperialism to support. Turning the imperialist war into a civil war, culminating in the successful October revolution, a world-changing event.

The Marxist movement then splits into two:
1. people who side with Lenin's concern on the side of the international revolutionary workers movement
2. the bourgeois elements in the leadership positions within the bureaucratic-reformist cancer metastasizing upon the workers movement that side with welfare gibs / their imperialist bourgeoisie / ethnic chauvinism etc.

Lenin dies prematurely and shortly after self-described Leninists of numerous tendencies then go on to take completely contradictory positions with a proclivity to picking sides, in the inter-imperialist war (part 2).
Notable examples: the left-communist "ultra-Leninists" around Bordiga, the left opposition "Bolshevik-Leninists" around Trotsky, the "Marxist-Leninists"* around Stalin.
Bordiga, Trotsky and Stalin believe the Axis imperialists are to be critically supported almost until its too late (i.e. for several years leading into WWII relying on this "Leninist analysis").
Stalin then flip flops after almost having Moscow sacked by Nazi Germany and concedes to figures like Dimitrov, who argues in favor of picking the Allies side of the imperialist war and injecting the domestic Party and movement with millions of liberal-bourgeois elements*. "Marxism-Leninism" from this point on goes on to contain a blatant antagonistic contradiction at the heart of it that keeps erupting in a variety of ways continuously throughout the 20th century within the ideological disputes of Communist Party leadership.
* Mao and the CPC adopt the later Dimitrovist position of "Marxism-Leninism", diluting the domestic communist movement with these "progressive bourgeois" elements from the start, which will become a critical issue in domestic tumult later down the line.
By the mid 20th century, "Marxism-Leninism" erupts towards an overt social-imperialPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
30 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>2252376
Lmao it was his shittiest piece of theretical work and we live with consequences now when so called communists support literal islamists or fascoids in the name of anti-imperialism. It was great propaganda during cold war to get anti-colonialists side with USSR but there is no Warsaw Pact anymore.

Truly embarrassing display of /leftypol/ ITT

>DURR HURR MUCHO TEXTO
<MAKE IT IN HASANABI FORM PLZ???
>TL;DR BUT WHAT SIDE SHOULD I PICK THO?
<SILICON VALLEY CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THIS?? MAKE IT SHORT

>>2271125
Truth!
Imagine treating a propaganda pamphlet as a rigorous scientific work. The failure to advance beyond the Leninist theory of imperialism, is the main reason I can't take MLs serious.

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One idea that routinely comes to mind about colony building is the focus on taking land away from already inhabited areas over setting up camps in uninhabited, unexplored, or inhospitable territory. I cannot be the only one to consider how inefficient it is to waste resources on trying to build colonies in already established places where you’ll face resistance from indigenous populations compared to building colonies in places where resistance should be nonexistent. Just look at this image. There’s all the land, potential mineral resources, and lack of competition right there. Sure it’s a desert, but if you can adapt to the conditions with the tech you bring from your home country, then it’s yours to make productive.
38 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2276156
Critical support for Israel

MLoids will literally see a group of people living under a communist mode of production (primitive or otherwise) and call them ultras who must be brought under capitalist rule.

Stageism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>>2276238

Ironically (if you are anti-ml poster) the KKE, at least at its highest level, agrees with you. Stageism is obe of the intellectual planks on which social democratic reformism was built.

>>2276279
I'm not even really "anti" anything except for succdemism, but I'm glad to see there's at least some people out there that don't just stick to a hollow and static interpretation of history that ignores Marx's intellectual development later in life and the work of people that came after.



 

### The 1970s Divergence: Productivity and Wages Under Capitalism

The 1970s marked a pivotal rupture in capitalist economies—productivity continued to rise, but wages stagnated. This decoupling was a structural shift, not an accident, and robotics now threatens to deepen this divide exponentially.



### 1. The Post-WWII Golden Age (1945–1970s)
- Strong Labor Power: Unions, New Deal policies, and Keynesian demand management ensured wages tracked productivity.
- Bargaining Leverage: High employment + welfare states meant capital shared gains with workers.
- Profit Stability: Corporations accepted lower margins in exchange for stable demand (Fordism).

Result: A temporary class truce—capital expanded, workers prospered.



Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
18 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>guys capitalism… is FALLING!!!! IT'S LITERALLY GONNA EXPLODE LITERALLY TOMORROW OR SOMETHING LITERALLY OH MY GOD GUYS ITS ABOUT TO EXPLOED!!!
>Why?
>WELL IT'S BECAUSE OF: *Things that literally would never bring the collapse of capitalism*
>But that is just a necessary consequence of capitalism and not at all an actual hindrance to its functioning?
>NOOOO YOU DON'T GET IIIIIITTTT THE CAPITALISMERINO IS GUNNA DIEEEEEEE BECUZ IS NOT PRODUCTERINO ANY MORRRRR!!!

>The 1970s marked a pivotal rupture in capitalist economies—productivity continued to rise, but wages stagnated.
in 1971, the US converted to fiat, so inflation obscured the stagnation in wages.

LLMs are nothing but a speculative bubble

<The 1970s marked a pivotal rupture in capitalist economies—productivity continued to rise, but wages stagnated
Wrong. Capitalist productivity decreases. Capitalist economies are in protracted decline due to imperialism because production is gradually replaced with parasitism of various forms like banking and consumptive industries which the bourgeoisie calls "services."

>>2271867
This is 'all leading' to Exterminism: the realization that the unemployable surplus population must be killed off, and the excess means of production must be destroyed, probably via world war. This is the emerging consensus across all classes and political tendencies except perhaps a minority of ultra-leftists. It has nothing to do with robots.



 

>For years, theorists have posited the onset of a “Chinese century”: a world in which China finally harnesses its vast economic and technological potential to surpass the United States and reorient global power around a pole that runs through Beijing.

>That century may already have dawned, and when historians look back they may very well pinpoint the early months of President Trump’s second term as the watershed moment when China pulled away and left the United States behind.


>It doesn’t matter that Washington and Beijing have reached an inconclusive and temporary truce in Mr. Trump’s trade war. The U.S. president immediately claimed it as a win, but that only underlines the fundamental problem for the Trump administration and America: a shortsighted focus on inconsequential skirmishes as the larger war with China is being decisively lost.


>Mr. Trump is taking a wrecking ball to the pillars of American power and innovation. His tariffs are endangering U.S. companies’ access to global markets and supply chains. He is slashing public research funding and gutting our universities, pushing talented researchers to consider leaving for other countries. He wants to roll back programs for technologies like clean energy and semiconductor manufacturing and is wiping out American soft power in large swaths of the globe.


<China’s trajectory couldn’t be more different.


>It already leads global production in multiple industries — steel, aluminum, shipbuilding, batteries, solar power, electric vehicles, wind turbines, drones, 5G equipment, consumer electronics, active pharmaceutical ingredients and bullet trains. It is projected to account for 45 percent — nearly half — of global manufacturing by 2030. Beijing is also laser-focused on winning the future: In March it announced a $138 billion national venture capital fund that will make long-term investments in cutting-edge technologies such as quantum computing and robotics, and increased its budget for public research and development.


<The results of China’s approach have been stunning.


>When the Chinese start-up DeepSeek launched its artificial intelligence chatbot in January, many Americans suddenly realized that Chi
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
14 posts and 3 image replies omitted.

>>2275220
>>2275227
Get your theory from Marx instead of reddit comments

>>2275059
It would be lucky to survive the rest of the decade. Despite the glitz and glamour, China is under prepared for the future trials that await. The country at the end of the day still acts like it’s the 20th century, just like all the rest. It is too focusing on capitalism to deal the existential crises that surround it.

America won’t become irrelevant, it will be dead. It lands and peoples reutilized for other projects. There won’t be a possibility of another American dominated century.

Quite frankly, the whole Chinese/American century is quite silly. Literally just a rehash of the Cold War. That’s all they could come up with. Cold War 2. We have human extinction on the table and this is what they come up with. They need to be sealing up cities to protect them from the new climate, and they’re too busy debating about electric cars (not even replacing car centric infrastructure).

Saudi Arabia truly is representative of the capitalist world in the 21st century. All that hubris, all that false sense of invincibility, all that decadence and wastefulness mixed with false eco positivity. They’ll be on top of the world until they aren’t. They’ll exclaim dominance over the other states until they aren’t too non existent to do so. Their folly and the consequences of their own actions will consume them no matter what. Where they should tremble and adapt, they instead stand prideful and falter. They are truly doomed.

>>2275068
is what he is saying true or false

>>2275247
Lol no. Too much sci fi.

>>2275548
Unfortunately he isn’t wrong. Despite china’s achievements, like every other country, it isn’t necessarily prepared to deal with existential problems like the centuries of industrial pollution permanently wrecking the biosphere, age demographic instability, the deteriorating global security situation, or climate change. The latter they’ve done some work with, but the former three are too large and too expensive that it’s unrealistic for them to make meaningfully large preparations this late with all the domestic problems they’re facing.



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small business owners usually fall into two categories: people who were so good at their job that they wanted to uncap their earnings and capture all the upside so they became consultants essentially, and on the other hand, people who are so obnoxious that being their own boss is the only way they could stay gainfully employed. If you've ever had the displeasure of being of being employed by the latter you'll know they can be infinitely more cruel, anal, dimwitted, and petty than any corporate executive or HR manager. The kind who pay minimum wage, as few or no benefits they can get away with, and scream at employees.

The petit booj ran a business with no buffer, no adaptability, and treated people like garbage, now they want my sympathy because they bet wrong on cheap imports?

A huge part of the emotional charge behind these complaints, especially among small business owners or freelancers, is the existential fear of re-proletarianization. They've tasted a degree of autonomy (however shaky), and the idea of going back to W-2 life, answering to a boss, or clocking in under surveillance again feels like death of the self.

They've constructed identities around being the boss, even if they're just scraping by. Going back to a "real job" means surrendering control over their time, work environment, and self-image. Many of them bought into the bootstraps ideology. Losing the business, or just watching it stagnate, feels like personal moral failure, not just market fluctuation. It’s not just about money. It's about status. Going from "entrepreneur" to "employee" (even if it's in a cushy corporate gig) feels like falling a class rung back into the worker pool. Many use their business as a narrative shield: "I'm not stuck in the system, I'm building something." The collapse of that dream isn't just stressful, it's identity-threatening.

That’s the real fear underneath the performative outrage, the entitlement, and sometimes the cruelty. They’re clinging to their mini-kingdoms (some justified, many not) because the alternative isn’t just economic loss. It’s class displacement. Its fear of them being turned into just another schmuck clocking in at 9 and slaving away under stark fluorescent lights.

FACE IT - COMPLAINING ABOUT TARIFFS IS THE TREATLERISM OF THE PETIT BOURGEOIS.
10 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2273325
downwardly mobile is not the same as literally re-proletarianized (yet)

>>2273325
>IF THERE IS DOWNWARD CROSS-CLASS MOBILITY FROM THE PETTY BOURGEOISIE INTO THE PROLETARIAT, THEN THERE WILL BE A CORRESPONDING DOWNWARD MOBILITY FROM THE PROLETARIAT INTO THE "LUMPEN", I.E. THE HOMELESS, CRIMINAL, DECLASSED, IMPRISONED, ETC.

yeah and thats already habbening

>>2273302
>On the other hand, the proletarian is relatively freer from such cares; he is not troubled by customers, or by having to pay rent for premises. He goes to the factory every morning, calmly goes home in the evening, and as calmly pockets his pay on Saturdays. Here, for the first time, the wings of our shoemaker’s petty-bourgeois dreams are clipped; here for the first time proletarian strivings awaken in his soul.
Honestly a point on why it can be hard to rouse the proletariat and why having some amount of petit bourgie daily anxiety in the party is useful, but we need to reach into the proletariat to unleash the extremely high levels of people power needed.

>>2273389
bullshit

>>2273322
Yeah but this was before Stalin's deviation so I'll allow it



 

Why does it feel like so much “anti-imperialism” has very little — if anything — to do with anti-imperialism and is simply Muslim identity politics?

For instance, why would anyone compare Pakistan to Palestine, when the former is a sovereign nation that was a close US ally during the Cold War and the latter a stateless nation that’s been fighting a 77+ year guerrilla war against one of the most brutal armies in the world and is now facing an all-out genocide? Pakistan and India are both bourgeois states with close ties to the US that both frequently imprison communists. To compare Pakistan to Palestine, in that western activists have a moral duty to hold mass protests waving Pakistani flags and boycott anything Indian is fucking stupid.

Yeah, I’m not shilling for India. But this shit is theoretically weak af.

Also, why does it seem like in every political conflict involving Muslims (except for China vs the Uyghurs) leftists always insist on taking the “Muslim side”? Look at Ethiopia vs Somalia or Christians vs Muslims in Nigeria, for instance. During the Cold War this would have made perfect sense, because the side fighting against the side backed by the West could be allied with the USSR and utilized to fight western capitalists. Today, not so much.

I’d love to understand the logic here.
112 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>2270896
that is your right. You will be answerable on the Day of Judgement

>>2270873
everything ive seen by hijab makes him seem like an edgelord, i don't really get my views from internet debate guys

>>2275541
you are islamophobic


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>>2263863
to have read none is even worse
this thread reeks of mossad hasbarist nonsense.
<have you ever considered that le israel is le progressive force in the middle east and that supporting palestine is literally doing a hecking unwholesome muslamic shareeya law? don't you care about womens rights and stuff bro?



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