/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2358547
OP is just Bordiga's ass stained armchair.

>>2357017
it is childish understanding of the world to think that 'financial capitalism' would die with UK-USA
Germany would simply take over their fief and replace them
Bordiga just hated brown and black people sweetie

Ethics and such aside Nazi Germany was not a stable state
There is no world where they sit on their ass for nearly a century not instigating a global conflict
The entire root and foundation of their ideology was around conquering, enslaving and genocide with an unstable power structure that reflects such short sighted goals
They took out HUGE loans before the war, of which their only plans to pay it off was just invading other countries
Even if they did chill the fuck out, they'd probably have to liberalise just for a chance to not implode in on themselves. Also consider that a chunk of their ideology was also a return to agrarianism which doesn't necessarily lend itself to industrial dominance which could further exaggerate economic issues
IM like talking out of my ass here but I don't think the nazis as we know them existing all the way up to today seems like a very coherent idea.

>>2358663
What do "brown and black" people have to do with WW2

lol

>>2344233
You don't get to convince reactionaries and the only point in arguing with them is to show normies how they're insufferable assholes.
Point out how what they want is various levels of "lacking compassion", "mean" and "hateful".
Most people, especially americans like to perceived as nice.

There is no aid. Her life will just get worse and worse.

Keep cordial relations with your cousin. Trying to debate or change her views will just piss both of you off. Shes going through her own political journey and may come around one day. You can respectfully disagree, but don't spend all day clashing over politics. I'm sure there are other avenues where you can find solidarity with each other.

It's probably better to sow seeds of doubt inside her brain using that one starting point instead of arguing and debating directly over Trump's corrupt, greedy & deceitful nature. Point out all of the corporate CEOs who backed Trump and the GOP and showed up at his inauguration, point out all the tax breaks they're going to receive from this big beautiful bill of his and how much taxes will be raised for the working class by that very same bill, and point out how many regulations to keep corporations in check have been neutered or removed by his administration and his Supreme Court thus far & how many more the GOP in the legislature are planning to water down or remove.

it's over, introduce her to pot smoking.

>>2358278
have you tried a large rock

>>2358349
have you tried a large cock ;)

>>2357817
>>2357820
well the dialectical and historical materialists argue that socialism is not possible before at least some part of the world passes through capitalist society. stalin even argues in his 1930s work on diaectical materialism that slavery was historically necessary to build up agrarian society. so it's less about debunking the arguments in favor of exploitation and more about explaining how forms of exploitation arises materially and then self-sublates through historical evolution of society

>>2358604
"dialectical materialism" = instant pseud alert

>>2357817
>Marxism is bourgeois
another day another banger

>>2353290
Cockshott one was definitely real because of how retarded it was

>>2356619
yugo one was AI.

>>2358160
You found proof of the YugoAI bugging out? Nice one.

Can we have a Stalin AI afterwards?

>>2356190
Oh no, next you'll tell me BDS doesn't work…

>>2356183
Al-Jazeera english or arabic?

>>2358269
>the state isn't a tool of class oppression
>it is an instrument for the oppression of one class over another
>im so smart
I like how you ignored the 14 liberals itt and came after me

>>2358269
by "condemn" i mean recognize

ESL and all but I'm pretty sure you're just nitpicking and didn't understand the subtext

>>2358238
YOU'RE READING too much into it
I was just pointing out that the sanitising of Al Golani/Jolani was already being done back in 2015

>>2357496
True. Leftypol can shill ziggerism so DSA must be fine as well.

>>2357527
disgusting western larperoid

>>2357157

> They don't argue why the working class needs to conquer political power (they don't even elaborate on what that is). They just state it lol.

< In general [The Erfurt Programme] suffers from the attempt to combine two things that are uncombinable: a programme and a commentary on the programme as well. The fear that a short, pointed exposition would not be intelligible enough, has caused explanations to be added, which make it verbose and drawn out. To my view the programme should be as short and precise as possible. No harm is done even if it contains the occasional foreign word, or a sentence whose full significance cannot be understood at first sight. Verbal exposition at meetings and written commentaries in the press take care of all that, and the short, precise phrase, once understood, takes root in the memory, and becomes a slogan, a thing that never happens with verbose explanations.
Engels, Critique of the 1891 Erfurt Programme
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1891/06/29.htm

> And thus capital isn't an alien social force, it is a cabal of billionaires who have co-opted two political parties.

Reread the what you're quoting.
< We live in a country run by a class of bosses and billionaires called capitalists. … This system can only be ended by the working class taking political power from the rich and building a new society.

> What has the first part got to do with the second? They don't even know what exploitation is, just calling profits lol.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2357494
anon if you think that all criticism is pedantic that would explain your problem

to be specific, i dont disagree with most of the criticisms the OP raises, i disagree with their relevance. the statement is not well written imo, but because

1. despite using simple language it lacks actual clarity, relying on a lot of stock phrases
2. most of the phrasing & vocabulary seems more intended to defuse intra-"leftist" bickering than to clarify itself to any mass base e.g. the weird aside about "different types of oppression" could accomplish the same point more effectively by just defining what they regard as "working class", starting from the unity of that category instead of starting themselves on the backfoot presuming liberal identitarianism. its your statement, if youre advocating primacy of class, say that and move on, preemptive defensiveness makes it look weak & unsure of itself
3. the biggest point, where i fully agree with the OP: all goals are either reformist policy proposals or maximum demands for a socialist republic, with NO indication of any kind of strategic roadmap on how to get there. for me this is the only thing thats really unforgivable. especially the membership and also the leadership dont need to have a perfect grasp of critique of political economy or anything else, and its unrealistic & counterproductive to demand that as a standard, tho of course political and economic education should be a pillar of any organization. what they DO need is clear goals in the short, medium, and long-term and an outline of a strategy to reach those goals. that is the only way a political organization can really be evaluated, by its ability to accomplish the goals it has set and its ability to adjust strategy and goals as needed when unsuccessful. without this, the only way to evaluate the org is on the basis of its principles and theoretical premises, which inevitably just runs in circles because you can debate principles and theory forever without it leading to anything

>>2356441
Funny, I basically want to be a single dad
>>2356512
Just wear a condom lol
>>2356658
Cope runs deep. Until about a year ago I thought everyone was faking it.

>>2357889
what convinced you that everyone wasn't faking it

>>2286403

I mean this would require actually finding someone compatible to date first. Satisfying this precondition in present society is already a practically insurmountable difficulty.

Τη τα θες ρε φίλε μου, έτσι είναι…

I'm self-aware enough to admit I'd be a bad, or at least below average, parent. Not everyone is suited to the task of child rearing. In fact some days it seems like most parents probably aren't.

>>2295807
How the fuck will people magically want to have kids again after you said that a ton of people will be imported from India?

>>2357691
eff pi bi pi

>>2357688
>>2357713
Why can't any of these siege-nations make any form of communism? I guess DPRK they are happy enough but they could provide more proof. They should show more of what they have going on there.

>>2358189

A lot of information (especially concrete numbers) are deliberately withheld by the DPRK government from publication so as to keep the enemy as much in the dark as possible.

In fact, I suspect they deliberately exaggerated how bad the arduous march was in order to trick the US into a sense that the DPRK would soon collapse (as well as get some free humanitarian aid).

One indicator of this is that the demographic data we do have shows no sudden birthrate collapse 1996-8 when there was supposed to be a famine (which we would expect of there was starvation); Instead we get a gradual decline over 20 years, and its still higher than most of Eastern Europe. Further the death rate spike up in 95, but at a total increase similar to eastern europe from the early 90s, and the declines to similarly after 2003, relatively stagnating afterwards.

>>2357688
Not even a third worldist but I can answer both of your questions, because neither have anything to do with third worldism.

>1. Many seem to presume that capitalism is already global but I don't think that's the case; there are plenty of areas which capitalism has not de/re territorialised as of yet. I am not even sure that the rate of globalisation is decelerating. Is there clear evidence of this?
Which areas do you see where capitalism doesn't exist? It doesn't sound like you have an issue with "Third Worldism" here as much as you have an issue with the basic thesis of Leninism and imperialism.

>2. I understand Marxism to be the study of the *development* of material relations, so I would generally assume that the closer you get to the imperial 'core', and the most developed/mature zone, the closer you get to the place where revolution can happen. Don't most revolutions occur in the capital cities of nations because this is where the core of power resides? Why wouldn't a revolution against imperialism therefore occur in the capital 'country' of capitalism (I.E., the country which holds the reserve currency, has most imperial power and is the controller of foreign surpluses).
Most revolutions haven't happened in the capital cities. In China, Vietnam, Cuba, Russia, etc. the strongholds of revolution have been far away from the capital of the country. The last time a major revolutionary movement was actually entirely centered in a capital city was the Spartacist Uprising in Berlin. You are thinking of these areas as simply "developed" but you aren't paying attention to how. In all of these countries, and looking at the world relationship between the imperial core and everyone else, the "developed" areas are developed precisely because they have an extractive relationship to the countryside. People living within these "developed" areas benefit in material ways from this extraction (better living conditions, higher wages, resources concentrated in grocery stores and shopping centres, etc.) and are disinclined to accept a decline in these benefits in order to wage revolution. This is why, in every modern revolution, the heart of the revolution is in the countryside and/or among the most exploited and extracted-from members of thatPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2358231
> The need for a revolutionary party and revolution is greater than ever here.
That doesn’t make it possible, anyone in a NATO or adjacent member state will be about as effective as internal German resistance to Nazi rule (ie not at all)

>>2355618
Yeah I hope you get some mileage out of it! With regards to current struggle, beyond just Chinese foreign policy this polemic offers us useful criticisms of opportunist re-evaluations of imperialism. While it doesn't directly discuss them, many of the opportunist lines in "three worlds" theory are shared by tendencies like Marcyism (WWP/PSL/Maupinites) with the "Global Class War" thesis forwarded by Sam Marcy in the US, and what we now know as international "multipolarism" pushed by many social fascists.

>>2355656
Hilariously telling on yourself that you didn't actually read any of this. You just saw Mao and your leaky brain spouted "M3W!!" See question 7.

Source:
https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/rcp-3.htm

Discussion Questions:
1. Why is it that non-western countries like the Philippines, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Iran, and Afghanistan (for example) can't be lumped into the same "camp", and what's the harm in doing so?
2. What is the significance of the transition of global imperialism into the stage of neo-colonialism?
3. How do you see the "theory of three worlds" reflected in modern Chinese initiatives like the Belt and Road Initiative and BRICS?
4. What does Marx's assertion that "the greatest productive force is the revolutionary class itself" mean for the modernization of, say, a factory or collective farm?
5. How has the assertion by Deng and the post-Mao CPC that the subordinate imperialist countries, the "second world", is no longer concerned with redividing the world among themselves panned out since 1977? Has this statement proven accurate?
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

why not just post a pdf tho, it's more cumbersome to read a bunch of posts

>>2355703
Posting texts in the form of multiple posts encourages people to engage more, keeps it at the top of the board, and places the text right in front of anyone in the thread. When I did this all in one post with a PDF/link and questions nobody engaged with the text and the threads would quickly get derailed and/or buried. With this, y'all have no excuse. The link is there if you want to use Marxist.org's better layout, but none of you get to avoid the content. Plus there's the added benefit of Anons like >>2355656 displaying their anti-intellectualism for all to see.

like something you might see in a magazine

>>2355691
1. Because, as the text points out, these are countries with vastly different relationships to imperialism and with different internal class forces at work. Iran and Brazil are regional imperialist powers, Burkina Faso is presently ruled by a national bourgeoisie trying to carve out their own niche against various imperialisms, the Philippines is a neo-colony, and Afghanistan is a comprador regime courting both Western and Eastern capital. These states do not have the same interests and cannot be bound together in any kind of real unity. The only thing that can genuinely unify in these nations is the proletarian revolutionary struggle.

2. The significance is that we now have to organize very differently around imperialism. Antagonisms which were once obvious are now obfuscated behind "independence" and "diversity". The 2020 uprisings in the US, for example, demonstrated pretty handily that there are many people who are able to identify the immediate colonial threat (pig occupation, relocation, etc.) but not the neo-colonial threat (Black or "kind" police, "Black faces in high places", etc.). Our anti-imperialist theories are the result of centuries of heroic struggle, and showed great results, but now it's back to the drawing board in the era of neo-colonialism. It's not enough to simply study Lenin's Imperialism or follow African anti-colonial struggle, and when we do we just keep losing and falling back on more and more backwards "theories". That's terrifying and demoralizing for a lot of people, I think.

3. "Three worlds" theory seems to still be the underpinning of modern Chinese foreign policy. For example the BRI is an attempt at strengthening various comprador and neo-colonial regimes towards "economic independence", a state that these regimes fundamentally can't support. However, these regimes will happily accept the funds and infrastructure as it strengthens their positions with the people, and undermines attempts at revolutionary struggle against them. People oftentimes make bad-faith criticisms of Filipino revolutionaries, for example, for opposing Chinese companies investing in building roads in the countryside and exploiting various natural resources. But there's a reality that these roads aren't simply being used for "development", they're being used for encirclement and dispersal of revolutionary forces. BRICS isPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

Please share on Twitter tag Discord and tag cousincrypt0 who runs it

>>2357988
>They do nothing
At best they implement more filters and surveillance for everyone.
Consumer activism at its best.

>>2357988
>Why aren't they taking down the fed honeypot???
Geee I wonder, almost like its some higher power's job to run those places. Who could it be?