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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1843389[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

You are not converting right wingers.

Just wanted to drop in to tell you that your negative attitude towards liberal progressives but your welcoming attitude towards right wing extremists with the rationale that the latter has more potential to be converted „because they also despise capitalism“ is both dumb and proven to be false.

We‘ve had a fair share of right wing extremists here, mostly because of raids and at other times attention whores starting pointless debates. Rarely do we have successful converts and when we do they still can‘t let go of right wing brainrot, i.e. chauvinistic idpol. And unlike the liberal progressive idpol it‘s actually pro-actively divisive while liberal progressive idpol still seeks to overcome oppression and bring people together this way, albeit based on a misguided liberal understanding of how these oppressions came to be.

The people with the greatest potential to be converted remain liberal progressives for the simple reason that they have a shared sentiment in opposing oppression and establishing an egalitarian society. Meanwhile, right wing extremists are exactly opposed to that. Sharing the notion that something sucks about capitalism has in no way meaningfully moved these people closer to being your allies, which is blatantly obvious through historic precedent; it was right wing extremists who killed communists whenever they could.

Your attempt to try to differentiate yourself from mainstream left wingers to appeal to /pol/acks by saying uyghur is pathetic and very telling. Grow up and develop a realistic grasp of who your actual allies are.
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 No.1881878

>>1881806
>It's nonsense but communism is taught as good intentions but cant work. They dont demonize Stalin in the same way as Hitler. Thats why rightoids complain about Stalin not being seen in the same way as Hitler and its some sort of leftie conspiracy
It is in the very least an antifascist conspiracy, but the entire post-45 regime has been denazification, yet the jewell of this philosemitic gesture in israel also sours into the unconscious of the system (also in ukraine) as the very thing they are supposed to fight against - like how neoconservatism was bred out of trotskyism.
But this is why black sun emblems and neo-paganism wont save the white race, because these are the weapons of the american empire (where also the police force in the US is largely based on the codes of "the invisible empire" of the KKK - a racially esoteric cult said to be started by freemason albert pike).
So when you try to use the devil's tricks against the devil, it never works out; it just gets subsumed into the preexisting system of occult power. 4chan itself is just glowies baiting eachother. and you can still be a fed even if you dont work for the FBI
So fascism can exist in quantitative (unrepresented) relation to political-economy (in the military-induatrial complex). Yet this distance between the concrete and abstract in contradiction points to the failure of the sublimity of the system's imperium.
The system is repressed, so to say, but this "conservative" character defines much of capitalist society and is the greatest alienation; as a chasm between relations of the base of production and culture. Death is even censored behind hospital walls for example. Violent movies need to be protected from children and so on.
In ancient athens, young teens would go on military expeditions with masters to learn what life is all about. Today Reality is barred from us (even at the ontological level, with kant's *modern* epistemology). Today we are determinately mediated beings.

 No.1881905

>>1881838
>This would be the total reactionary act
Not at all. It would be the culmination of a cycle. Your emotions are clearly leading you astray.
>which guenon defines as "the reign of quantity".
Maybe you protoids shuold stop reading German "materialism" and start reading Marxian materialism.

 No.1881917

>>1881905
A cyclical theory of history is reactionary since it submits to the eternal return of the form of the social Idea, like the "hard times make strong men" meme. Thats why the left favours linear notions of "progress" toward continual self-transformation unto the unbroachable ideal of total equality. This follows from hegel's dialectical theory of nature seeking to realise itself, yet only affirming itself in the failure of an ideal (like how man fell from the garden of eden).
There is a circularity in this mode of thought, but hegel also broaches the enlightenment as "histiry turned on its head" where History ends with its self-completion by the ascent of Reason as a captured object of self-reference (as opposed to previous eras of "irrational" social forms, which indeed where repetitions of the same - but this is History proper, where Reason in self-consciousness to Hegel represents the path of universality via posthistorical conditions).
This is obviously transposed by marx into a materialist context. Marx's theory of History repeating itself is always held out by the rupture of contradiction however that constantly moves things forward.
You see, in the right-wing perspective, there is no end of History since History is majorly particularised (as opposed to being entranced into concepts of "world-history"). World-history by this perspective i would gather has largely been seen to be a eurocentric fetish of occidental Reason and "philosophy" (as hegel's "absolute" Idea).
What qualifies "progress" to marx against this sameness is that marx sees that history has an object of its own dissolution, which i rhetorically anounced as the "reactionary" ideal by "retvrning" to the ancient past.
>Maybe you protoids shuold stop reading German "materialism" and start reading Marxian materialism
What am i missing exactly?

 No.1881925

>>1881917
>>1881905
where hegel sees irrationality in thought defining history, marx sees irrationality in production defining history (where he even sees the "original sin" of aristotle in not marking the labour invested in commodities as the universal substance which binds them in equivalence, since the relation of the slave made man a commodity also, and thus labour was alienated from its object of self-consciousness in this way). Only with reference to a universal proletariat does labour come into essence and thus find political identification.
Marx is a hegelian afterall, even though he "turns hegel on his head" by his materialist inversion.

 No.1881930

>>1881925
The inversion of an ideology is a firm and clear step into a "post-" camp. PMC faggots need to get their Hegelian bureaucratic idealism back in their asses before the proletariat pulls it out with tools.



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 No.1873350[Reply]

sadly, my parents have been going down a libertarian pipeline recently, something i was not aware of until recently due to not having a lot of contact with them.
the thing is though, that somehow this developed made them have an extremely correct and based analysis of many political issues, with them now having opinions on things like the genocide in gaza, the ukraine conflict, black liberation and anti imperialism in general that are indistinguishable from those exposed by your average communist, even though they still believing that everything bolshevik is the devil incarnate.
i then decided to introduce them to various anti imperialist media that doesn't use explicitly marxist branding (ben norton, btn, etc) and they seem to now be huge fans of those projects.
what the hell is going on there? how the hell did my reactionary parents get radicalized into being opposed to American imperialism while continuing to consume reactionary media?
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 No.1873554

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>>1873505
I was reading some of Orwell's writings (I know….) during WWII and people seemed just about as schizo back then as they do now. Once Britain and the USSR formed an alliance, he described the British working class as becoming much more pro-Russian, but somehow didn't connect that to communist ideology or to the Communist Party, which didn't really benefit that much. The party gained some new recruits but it didn't translate to political influence. The party also started shilling hard for Churchill which led to some interesting posters. Orwell distrusted communists greatly but he thought this was the right move for them though. (One of his letters at the time said he was cheering for Stalin, which he admitted was a strange thing for him to say.)

He didn't think German propaganda was effective but they'd run targeted psyops to different audiences. There was Nazi radio propaganda aimed at the right, and different broadcasts aimed at the left, like calling Germany "socialist" and fighting the British plutocrats, and that Britain needed a revolution (so go sabotage arms production!) which was necessary… to save the Soviet Union… but even if the USSR lost to Germany… which it probably will (!!!) … then at least there will be socialism in Britain!!!! There were some British pacifists who basically became pro-Hitler, or like saying, Hitler wouldn't be so bad (or who's to say he's any worse?). Then the leftists who actually took up a "revolutionary defeatist" position were the anarchists. Can you imagine?

Then there were the Catholics, the bulk of them very poor Irish laborers not suffiicently under the thumb of their priests to be pro-fascist, but the Catholic intelligentsia were basically pro-fascist (but mainly put the emphasis on being anti-Russian) and paralleled Petain. Some of the anti-Bolshevik stuff being put out by Catholic papers was so venemous it disgusted Orwell. He said it was old-fashioned stuff about Bolshevik atrocities and nationalizing women. There ended up being a split between the Catholics on this later.

There were also some leftover Blackshirts who were in a crouch, but they'd adopt positions like, trading bases with America for destroyers is bad, we should stay out of any alliances, Britain can stand alone… with the basic idea being to forge some kind of separatePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

 No.1873874

Libertarian Stalinism is turned out real after all. Oppose elitist Fabianism, and the imperialist trick of welfarist, social democratic ideologies that traps the people. Oppose war, militarism, and racism.

 No.1873879

It makes sense to me, a full analysis of all the problems of capitalism is difficult, but an instinctual revulsion to the inhuman cruelty of Empire is a normal reaction that you have to actively suppress.

 No.1881789

>>1873350
I think parents just generally care about the material conditions their children are subjected to, and when the state of things is very clearly not good and getting worse, they're more willing to question if things ought to change or not.
My parents have both always been libertarian voters but in the last couple years have started talking about 'late stage capitalism' and stuff lol

 No.1881901

>>1873350
Its natural for petit porkies to be liberal or "libertarian" in amerispeak. They have the luxury of caring about too much taxes or freedumbs as they dont to worry about material needs.



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 No.1867900[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

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 No.1881769


 No.1881781

>>1881767
Prick was a British officer so of course his instinct is to order men to charge at the machine guns and then canonise them as lions once the inevitable happens. Literally anything he says or genuinely thinks about war naturally precludes his own participation.

 No.1881782

>>1881570

The Suez canal is not even important. Right?

 No.1881784

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 No.1882606




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 No.1816541[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

I think reading up about these guys should be mandatory because they are a perfect illustration of what not to do. They were without a doubt perhaps the most incompetent and embarrassing armed group that has ever existed. Everyone, White Working class union members, Black Panthers and feminists all made fun of them and thought they were embarrassing retards
All their members hailed from very privileged backgrounds and were university students, Not surprisingly, when they were apprehended, only a handful faced any consequences or retribution from the government. Their grand "revolution" against the United States turned out to be a decade-long spree of meaningless bombings and vandalism. Law enforcement dubbed them the "toilet bombers" due to their penchant for targeting government building bathrooms. The pinnacle of their incompetence was when they accidentally blew up one of their own safe houses. Some of their members managed to evade capture for years(cause no one was actually looking for them), only to be astounded by the lenient punishment they received upon surrendering. cause law enforcement simply didn't deem them worth prosecuting. the majority of them are still alive and continue to enjoy their wealth to this day and are college professors and social activists.
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 No.1871454

>>1868208
don't be mad they had chicks in the group and got laid.

 No.1877056

>>1817449
I guess the native americans just didn't believe in freedom hard enough then.

 No.1877068

>>1871413
>accomplish nothing
>invite more government reaction and public support for antiterrorist surveillance measures
>get arrested and spend 90% of your time trying to rescue former members of your militant group
fuck the haters maaaan

 No.1877081

>>1877068
>accomplish
Rightoid dog whistle, stopped reading

 No.1881690

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>>1816882
Reminds me how modern activists are projecting Palestinians as their ideals



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 No.211966[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Thread for all things Nordic. Recommended languages: Finnish, Scandinavian and English.
495 posts and 159 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1855106

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolumnister/a/93vxJM/aklagare-vill-fangsla-joe-som-hjalpte-polisen-mot-gangstergang-i-norrkoping
>– Jag har aldrig haft ens en betalningsanmärkning, säger han. Nu får jag brev från kronofogden för att jag inte kunde sköta ekonomin när jag var häktad.
hur är det med svensk rätsäkerhet egentligen? Kan man slå sönder nåns privatliv genom att häkta dem så här i andra länder med?

 No.1879201

Hur rösta EU val pls

 No.1879298

>>1879201
SKP.
Nämner följande för säkerhets skull: man behöver ingen "riktig" valsedel för att rösta på ett givet parti, man skriver bara SKP med tydliga bokstäver på en blank valsedel. Lycka till kamrat!

 No.1879443

What's The Current Job Market For Pornstar Kayleigh Wanless Professionals Like?
Pornstar kayleigh

 No.1881680

>>1879298
Meh. Minulle kelpaa tämä kolmen vassari-MEP:in minijytky.
Ja koska Li lähtee, Yrttis palaa isoon saliin :D



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 No.1880102[Reply]

https://arzamas.academy/materials/1258

Take the "Political Compass of the Revolution" test and find out who you would have been a hundred years ago - an anarchist, cadet, Bolshevik, right Socialist Revolutionary or Black Hundred
59 posts and 33 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1881013

I would be Kautsky of course, we must critically support the triplice multipolaristas against the anglo imperialists

 No.1881199

not once in your copypasta did you prove that I was lying. It is interesting that you characterize me as "lying" right out of the gates and you aren't even remotely charitable enough to be open to the idea that I am simply mistaken about events over 100 years ago. But I am not mistaken. You are mistaken. In fact, you repeated exactly the historical events I recounted (along with the entire context of February to October 1917 leading up to them), but simply quoted Lenin's post hoc justification for Bolshevik actions.

Here is where your post literally agrees with mine:


<Third, the “Left” Communists have a great deal to say in praise of us Bolsheviks. One sometimes feels like telling them to praise us less and to try to get a better knowledge of the Bolsheviks’ tactics. We took part in the elections to the Constituent Assembly, the Russian bourgeois parliament in September–November 1917. Were our tactics correct or not? If not, then this should be clearly stated and proved, for it is necessary in evolving the correct tactics for international communism. If they were correct, then certain conclusions must be drawn. Of course, there can be no question of placing conditions in Russia on a par with conditions in Western Europe. But as regards the particular question of the meaning of the concept that “parliamentarianism has become politically obsolete”, due account should be taken of our experience, for unless concrete experience is taken into account such concepts very easily turn into empty phrases. In September–November 1917, did we, the Russian Bolsheviks, not have more right than any Western Communists to consider that parliamentarianism was politically obsolete in Russia? Of course we did, for the point is not whether bourgeois parliaments have existed for a long time or a short time, but how far the masses of the working people are prepared (ideologically, politically and practically) to accept the Soviet system and to dissolve the bourgeois-democratic parliament (or allow it to be dissolved). It is an absolutely incontestable and fully established historical fact that, in September–November 1917, the urban working class and the soldiers and peasants of Russia were, because of a number of special conditions, exceptionally well prepared to accept the Soviet system and to disband the most democratic of bourgeois parliaments. Nevertheless, the Bolsheviks did
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 No.1881200


 No.1881266

>>1881199
The Bolshevik party only participated in the elections as a protest to condemn and crush all institutions of the bourgeois state and put an end to the superstitions of the capitalist state in the consciousness of the masses. You confuse Marx's texts against the state as if it were a desire for petty-bourgeois decentralization instead of crushing the bourgeois state to install the proletarian state. Marx and Engels already realized that the bourgeoisie was already conservative and becoming more and more conservative as time went by, which is why they didn't even go through the liberal revolutions completely in fear of the workers, therefore the ones who should carry out these revolutions would be the proletarian class and not remain passive, supporting the bourgeoisie in the corner.

You don't notice the difference between the reformism of the Mensheviks and the revolutionary position that the Bolsheviks had from the beginning. Everything was intended to build the forces for the proletarian class to take power and lose its electoral prejudices of superstition of the state that Marx fought.

Lenin had already published the text State and Revolution in September 1917, many social democrats accused Lenin of having a semi-anarchist theory that was neither anarchist abstentionism nor the reformism that Marx fought that came to dominate the social democrats with the conciliation of classes in a neutral state without a classist character.

You should read State and Revolution here: https://www.marxists.org/ebooks/lenin/state-and-revolution.pdf

Now let's see what Marx and Engels said about how to participate in these elections, but not recognize the current order:

<Complete abstention from political action is impossible. The abstentionist press participates in politics every day. It is only a question of how one does it, and of what politics one engages in. For the rest, to us abstention is impossible. The working-class party functions as a political party in most countries by now, and it is not for us to ruin it by preaching abstention. Living experience, the political oppression of the existing governments compels the workers to occupy themselves with politics whether they lik
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 No.1881418

i got left SRs a few years ago
makes sense ig
not the biggest fan of the bolsheviks, but not an anarchist either
youre a fucking psycho if you unintentionally get the black hundreds btw



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 No.1879266[Reply]

Theories are simplifications/approximations of reality. Frameworks. They do not fully describe reality. They can't. A system cannot contain a full description of itself. In order for a full description to be created, one most go outside the system. But once you are outside the system, there is an external system, with its own nodes and relationships that need to be described, and which influence the subsystem. So a full description is still impossible. Since theories are simplifications/approximations of reality, slogans are oversimplifications of reality, as they are simplifications/approximations of theories, which are themselves simplifications/approximations. Since it is impossible to fully accurately describe reality, one must give up on the theoretician's vain task and fight to change reality. Fighting, action, etc. can take on unwise forms like adventurism, however. Also, it requires the above theory, however much it may be a simplification/approximation of reality, to convey this sense of urgency and need for action, and even once you convey it, people are still not sufficiently motivated to do anything, even if it is in their material interests. This is because they are tired, beaten down, sometimes on the brink of death itself.

How does the proletariat resolve this need to balance theory which is always somewhat incomplete with action which is always somewhat uninformed?
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 No.1880672

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>>1879937
>Why must a model (or resulting theories) fully describe reality?
Nobody said they "must" do this. However it's worth noting that the long term ability of a model to predict future outcomes is greatly diminished to the degree that it does not fully conform to reality. However since it is physically impossible for a model to fully describe the system that it itself is a part of, we have a contradiction that needs to be resolved if we are to ever predict and react to all potential future crises.

 No.1880702

You don't need to know the motion of every atom to develop a functional law of entropy. In fact if you look at the motions of every atom you quickly find that this "law" is only, on average, true, and that violations are constantly happening.

 No.1880934

>>1880702
>this "law" is only, on average, true, and that violations are constantly happening.
This does not contradict what OP is saying:
<Theories are simplifications/approximations of reality. Frameworks. They do not fully describe reality.

>You don't need to know the motion of every atom to develop a functional law of entropy.

Functional? Yes. But if a "law" or "theory" is merely functional, it will lack predictive power when it is most needed. If you run a simulation, that simulation will get more inaccurate with each stepwise iteration, even if it starts off pretty accurate.

 No.1880995

>>1880934
Science has learned to work with probabilities. You should too.

 No.1881067

>Theories are simplifications/approximations of reality. Frameworks. They do not fully describe reality. They can't. A system cannot contain a full description of itself.
I think the fallacy of your point is confusing the theory that describes something as describing the instance of something, and subsequently trying to describe the instance of everything that currently exists. They are not the same and your argumentation related only to the latter. Also, realistically speaking we are only interested in subsections of reality and not reality as a whole at all times, so storage to describe a specific system would theoretically be available externally.



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 No.296564[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

Dump all the seemingly pointless, dubious, and frivolous questions that don't deserve their own shitty threads.

Got a question that's probably been asked a million times before? You're in the right landfill, buddy. Post it here.

Threads that otherwise might go in here will eventually find themselves become merged to this thread.
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 No.1880347

>>1880323
>move to another country that hates them just as much
surprisingly, you're not quite as much hated when you dont steal land and enforce an apartheid state with mass killing

 No.1880353

>>1880323
>why should they all die?
you said that, not us. zionism is genocidal and projects that onto the palestinians, assuming "from the river to the sea" is a code word for annihilating the israelis. the same is done with the landback movement in the usa. people think it's about getting the white people but it's not of course. these are national liberation movements. people make comparisons to South African Apartheid for a reason. Back in the 90s the boers were saying the same thing, that the africans wanted to kill them all (rather than fighting for human rights)

 No.1880368

>>1828535
I think of fucking trots every night.

 No.1880710

What were the thoughts of the soviet union and communist countries in general about administrative and managerial systems? Like, i am studying in Uni stuff like "business models" and "operational/strategic/managerial management".
How did the Soviet Union, like, teach this kind of stuff, was it different from capitalist countries, did they teach this at all, or they consider those kinda stuff just bullshit?

 No.1880849

>>1880710 (me)
Btw, i probably asked this same question some weeks before, i think i remember doing it, but forgot the awnser



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 No.1880787[Reply]

Im non white and im pro capitalist in white countries and pro communist in my native country. the reason for that is pretty simple, with globalization and the pursuit of cheaper labor, many industries have shifted operations overseas. this has disproportionately affected working-class white communities in regions dependent on manufacturing jobs, leading to economic decline and social instability.

A push for a globalized economy under capitalism in white countries undermines local and national cultures, which can include the traditional values and identities of white communities, companies push diversity hires and quotas, who gets left out? white applicants.

the corporations will portray white scums as oppressors and beneficiaries of an unjust system, fueling a narrative that undermines white identity.

Tell me why you think we should liberate them from capitalism? personally we should let them be victims of their “superior” economic system.(One of these threads...)
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 No.1881360

>>1880914
The point is that the union soldiers have nothing to cry about… since they won the war. You must have really debilitating autism if you struggle to read the facial expression of wojaks. Especially since your first instinct was to leap into some sort of idiotic ramble about abolitionism.

 No.1882233

I don't even want to imagine how gay the prompt for these AI images had to be.
"African warrior holding the severed head of an Aryan male, chiseled jaw, young, beautiful hair"
You're fucking GAY dude

 No.1882272

>>1882233
Don’t know why you had to insert your interracial homosexual fantasias but its okay we don’t discriminate against /pol/ faggots here. 😁

 No.1883401

>>1880851
except youre not the one benefitting from imperialism. you are a wagecuck working a shitty service job that will probably be replaced by ai in the next decade.

 No.1884165

>>1882233
"black gigachad holds kkkrakkka head" would do just fine as a prompt probably



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 No.1879588[Reply]

A few weeks ago, the Congolese army reported the arrest of a little over fifty armed men; many of which were from the United States, France and other North Atlantic countries. These men have been put into custody, and some of them have been executed (censored video footage has been published to the public by Aljazeera).

This series of events has had me thinking about the dramatic rise in military expenditures most African countries have had in recent months. Where exactly is the African union and the organizations it governs headed as more domestic security measures get implemented, and as anti imperialist sentiment grows? Will Congo fully cut off resource exports with the world outside of Africa? Have the recent conflicts Chinese migrants had with treating indigenous Africans lead to worse diplomatic relations—for those of you wondering, recently some shops and schools opened by Chinese and Indian migrants have been closed or shut down permanently in Kenya, Congo, and Nigeria over alleged or proven discrimination against indigenous Africans (CTV news Nigeria, Africanews, Reuters, 2024).

Feel free to discuss your ideas.
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 No.1880707

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the perpetrators are on trial now

 No.1880709

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>>1879598
HARDEN YOUR HEART O PUTIN
INCREASE YOUR ATTACKS

 No.1880722

>>1879590
Africans will liberate Africa, not subhuman Europeans, they've interfered in enough shit, it's about time they step aside.

 No.1880760

>>1879598
>Russian
>white
Lol

 No.1880767

>>1879629
The Republic of Congo has a bigger socialist presence than the DRC. Zaire still has the legacy of Mobutu's anti-communism that was set up after Lumumba. The CIA wants another Mobutu in charge that would keep DRC undeveloped.



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