/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2807056
Stop stealing third world resources and third worlders will stop coming, have you thought about that?

>>2807056
they've won 300 seats, not exactly terrible result

>>2806974
We are cooked

>>2807057
>Stop stealing third world resources and third worlders will stop coming
the third worlders ARE the resource that we're stealing LOL

>>2807056
they underperformed because it wasn't that many councils, they still did well either way

>>2802170
your mom destroyed the ussr

Peruanons, does Sendero Luminoso still exist there?

>>2802294
It's 50 guys cooking coke in the in the middle of the jungle at this point. Every once in a while they ambush a police patrol only to get clapped days latter when the army intervenes to lay waste to the whole area.

>>2802294
>>2802353
Also it’s not even called Sendero Luminoso anymore, it’s called the Militarized Communist Party of Peru and they called for Gonzalo’s execution for getting captured and ordering the original group to stand down.

>>2806775 (me)

See :

>Genocide is bad
<Why?
>[answer]
<Now why doesn't that answer also apply to beings that don't look human but still feel pain, fear, and are capable of love and happiness?
>incoherent screeching and leaking

>>2806781
Nothing is ever good or bad, they just are

I am going to eat meat right now just to spite these autists.

>>2806781
because animals are as stupid as they are nutritious. they can't conceive of their predicament or enact their liberation. they can lead a 90% happy life if you raise them outside in something akin to their regular habitat.

workers have been resisting their enslavement with varying levels of sophistication for as long as there has been civilization.

There’s one way to sustainably eat meat, it’s do it rarely and to hunt for it yourself, we have plenty of overpopulated and invasive species running around causing havoc. Why should I let the meat from 17 pigs rot in the sun when they destroy the land? Just snip the needles off the lionfish, who gives a fuck

>>2807015
>If Crimea's annexation was justification for draconian laws and a bit of home shelling, then the invasion could be justification for genocide just as October 7th would become for Israel.
Israel was already committing genocide, Ukraine is not. Does this not just reinforce the argument that the invasion is a dumb idea?

>>2807024
>Israel was already committing genocide, Ukraine is not.
Israel is an older state than Ukraine, moreover Russia invaded Ukraine (partially) to avoid genocide.

Like come on man my post contained quite a lot to just be dismissed with
>yh but Ukraine didn't get the chance to become Big Israel… soooo I win?

>>2807032
Because the rest of what you said is just trying to draw some kind of equivalence between Ukraine and Israel, which is obviously nonsense. "Ukraine's borders were drawn up by another country!", "Ukraine gets support from NATO and so does Israel" and any variety of baseless accusations extrapolated from one quote that illuminates a completely different problem with post-war Ukraine. Look, here is the focal point of the argument: What Ukraine would have done over the past few years would never have been as deadly or destabilizing as the invasion. At the end of the day, everything else is just orbiting that.

This has gone on long enough, either make a convincing argument against it or shut up. In order to prove that Ukraine was about to commit some kind of genocide, you must prove that they had the ability to do so, that they had intention to do so and that there was any actual indication that they were gearing up for it when Russia invaded. You have given me nothing conclusive or even that I did not already know. Give me conclusive evidence and I'll join you in masturbating to Ukrainian kids dying.

>>2807042
>"Ukraine's borders were drawn up by another country!"
>obviously nonsense
>shut up
>I'll join you in masturbating to Ukrainian kids dying.

You know what, I’m not convinced you’re approaching this with an open mind.

>>2804238
The government of Ukraine is the idealized epitome of anti-communism in Brazil, where a coup d'état was used to persecute all communist, socialist and workers' union movements in Ukraine with the Maidan coup in 2014.

In this coup regime of fascist reactionary puppets of finance capital several militias of the right sector together with the Azov battalion terrorize, kidnap and silence who they consider a threat to the buyer government with an organization called The Peacemaker ( Myrotvorets ) which is used by neo-Nazis with names, data personal and family members to intimidate, silence and eliminate outlaw journalists and citizens who are considered a "threat to national security" with neo-Nazi paramilitary groups. Just so you know, the president of Brazil Lula himself and several left-wing DCM journalists who are Brazilian have their names noted there. Remembering that they scratch the name on the list as the individual passes away as if it were a people elimination list. Don't forget the various white supremacist neo-Nazi organizations that have a direct connection to Ukraine in the world.

The role of the reactionaries was to depoliticize the population so that a false opposition that uses only the discourse against corruption financed by the bourgeoisie in a puppet party of imperialism with Zelensky as a friendly figure for the international propaganda starts the destruction and privatization for the financial capital of the agricultural cooperatives that it was unpopular to just hint at this kind of action before the coup, but Zelensky's opposition party is not opposed and hides this from the public, all public property is being destroyed and labor rights are being attacked. The various reactionary groups are integrated throughout the Ukrainian government in all sectors of the state and Zelensky just put the reactionary henchman on the line to attack anyone who opposes neoliberalism and the Ukrainian supremacy policy against non-Ukrainian language minorities living in the country and have been repressed since the coup.

The communist party of Ukraine had 13% of the vote before the coup at the time, where the left was seen as the main enemy immediately even though that party was in protests at the time no ukrainian chauvinism and racism against russians, no glorification of the european union, NATO and the IMF, witPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2795025
In my estimation, the solution is automation. The robot will never complain about working 24/7, and its existence means a human doesnt even have to do that job.

Many jobs you can't legally just do because you feel like it, you need to have credentials in the form of certificates that cost a lot of money. I asked myself: What would be the anarchocommunist version of that?

I figure a very rudimentary social network could replace at least some of that credentialing business, just a public database full of statements of the form:
<I, [name], say [person] is better at doing [activity] than me.
No freeform writing with LLM analysis, just fixed activity descriptions no longer than three words.

People could follow chains, like Alice saying Bob is better at cooking than herself, Bob saying he is not as good at cooking as Carl, and so on. Of course, there could be such "better than me" endorsement chains between people going in both directions or in a circle. In that case, the system could highlight the shorter chain.

>>2799933
automation just creates new jobs, like overseeing, cleaning, repairing machinery. It can decrease hours worked, or it can get workers fired, it can create a crisis of overproduction, but it never gets rid of human labor completely. If it did get rid of human labor completely it wouldn't get rid of class struggle, it would force bourgeoisie to either subsidize the proles subsistence with UBI, so that they could live without a job, or they would try to kill off the proles and make the entire automated economy run for them and them alone… which doesn't make much sense when you consider that our productive capacity is already capable of feeding, clothing, and housing everyone, but the bourgeoisie force artificial scarcity by destroying commodities during a crisis of overproduction, instead of just giving them away.

Who are some socialist writer about digital culture and the internet as a whole. I know its not as on topic but I feel like this would be the best place to ask. Idk, I have been into like Mark Fisher, Nick Land and the CCRU as of late.

>>2803572
>>2803454
If ai did permanently replace human labor it would basically turn 90% of the population redundant and the new class division will be rentiers vs lumpens in a cyberpunk post capitalist tech Neo feudal society

>>2806901
Marx and Engels supported the idea that a socialist revolution should be carried out as soon as possible without waiting for capitalism to develop “on its own” and destroy the peasantry. Lenin’s policy of worker-peasant alliance, developing of agricultural co-operatives and using state-capitalism as a transition from semi-feudalism and undeveloped capitalism to socialism is in accordance with Marx and Engels.

<We, of course, are decidedly on the side of the small peasant; we shall do everything at all permissible to make his lot more bearable, to facilitate his transition to the co-operative should he decide to do so, and even to make it possible for him to remain on his small holding for a protracted length of time to think the matter over, should he still be unable to bring himself to this decision. We do this not only because we consider the small peasant living by his own labor as virtually belonging to us, but also in the direct interest of the Party. The greater the number of peasants whom we can save from being actually hurled down into the proletariat, whom we can win to our side while they are still peasants, the more quickly and easily the social transformation will be accomplished. It will serve us no reason to wait with this transformation until capitalist production has developed everywhere to its extreme consequences, until the last small craftsman and the last small peasant have fallen victim to capitalist large-scale production.

<Engels, The Peasant Question in France and Germany

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894/peasant-question/ch02.htm

This is what Lenin said in 1923:

<Infinitely stereotyped, for instance, is the argument they learned by rote during the development of West-European Social-Democracy, namely, that we are not yet ripe for socialism, but as certain “learned” gentleman among them put it, the objective economic premises for socialism do not exist in our country… “The development of the productive forces of Russia has not yet attained the level that makes socialism possible.” All the heroes of the Second International, including, of course, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2806928
>a socialist revolution should be carried out as soon as possible without waiting for capitalism to develop “on its own” and destroy the peasantry.
And yet in the Ruzzian thread you stated something along the lines that capitalism is ought to be developed after an anti-imperialist struggle in the third world.

Can the socialist NAO button be pressed or not?

>>2806901
national revolutions happen all the time and should happen, but the odds of long term change (a communist revolution in a country in africa or latam would hardly usher in a new stage of history) are slim compared to global revolutions, which like marx says can only happen when the time is right

because materialists constantly have to reiterate the primacy of economic origins of social phenomena in endless counterweight to idealists. it ends up being almost self-vulgarizing but its difficult to present the more nuanced & accurate version without sounding like youre watering down and backpedaling. there is no contradiction between asserting that economic reproduction has ultimate causal primacy while still allowing for human subjectivity to be operative as an emergent property that has a degree of independence without being any difference in substance. a boulder, a hurricane, and a human mind are all purely material phenomena but they are distinct systems that emerge from more basic systems. that doesnt mean a boulder is identical to its constitutive elements arranged in any arbitrary way, a boulder is distinct because of the way its constitutive elements are actually arranged. water isnt "just" 2 hydrogen 1 oxygen, the arrangement of those atoms bonds, i.e. their relations to eachother, are what make water qualitatively distinct. in the same way that the human mind isnt "just" material in the sense of vulgar determinism, it is a qualitatively distinct system, distinct from other material systems, i.e. independent from other material systems. among the distinct qualities of the human mind are some degree of more or less unified phenomenal experience that includes a sense of agency and responsibility. that sense of being in control of ourselves isnt "illusory" any more than its transcendent, 'agency' is simply the name we give to the activity of the system that is us. we identify with it and attribute its activity to ourselves and we're not wrong to because what else would you be. the issue is when you take your spontaneous and inevitable identification with the phenomena of existing, and try to instinct that the contours of that experience must reflect some kind of metaphysical order to the universe. the experience of having a self isnt "false", what's false is assuming that the self-evidence of subjectivity indicates anything about the world beyond itself. theres no reason to assume that consciousness and subjectivity are anything other than just a quality of a certain material system, matter relating to itself in such a way. but we do pareidolia with everything, so its very hard to disentangle from the feeling that the universe in general must somehow correspond to our experience.

we cant stop presuming that there is some "realm of Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2806930
The anti-imperialist struggle is inseparable from following the principles of scientific socialism. Having state capitalism facilitates the socialization of the economy with the dictatorship of the proletariat. Pushing the bourgeois democratic state to its limits, leading to its collapse through class struggle, facilitates the communist cause. Failing to intensify the exploitation of workers facilitates class struggle if there is a fight for radical reforms that do not create complacency, standing in solidarity with workers worldwide and preventing capitalists from profiting and bringing chaos to the bourgeois state.

An anti-imperialist position allows various bourgeois states to develop, enabling communists to assume power. Because of the division and conflict between these capitalist states, sanctions cannot be properly applied against communists who seize power in a country during a communist revolution; therefore, a multipolar world is necessary.

Don't you understand that my position is to not tolerate finance capital co-opting the masses? A victory for finance capital does not signify a communist revolution because this depends on whether a vanguard has prepared the masses for a revolutionary situation; if sacrifices and suffering are necessary, there will be no tolerance for surrender, and traitors will be punished accordingly.

You should read the communist electoral programs in a bourgeois election before the revolution by Marx and Engels then:

<Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

<1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
<2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
<3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
<4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2803891
Yes, Marx directly supports welfare in his writings.

>>2803894
Guy lived off donations from Engels, he'd be a hypocrite like Rand if he didnt.

>>2803885
>>2803889
To contextualise this a bit more, Marx in his economic writings discusses the difference between time-wages and piece-wages. If we consider time-wages, people are paid by the hour, and if they ar optimally productive, they exploit themselves (like how when you are finished with your tasks, your boss just gives you more stuff to do). Those acquainted with time-wages are thus inherently lazy in order to sustain their employment at an optimal leisure (e.g. construction and public works employees). Here, productivity is punished (in working class communities, a paradox occurs, where "hard work" is celebrated, yet success is punished, just like in the working space). Piece-wages on the contrary, reward productivity (freelance work being a type of piece wage, or salary), since it incentivises you to do your work at a faster pace. Capitalist countries mostly use time-wages, while in the Soviet Union, piece-wages were most common.

Marx in his lower phase of Communism promotes the piece-wage model, seeing how different abilities will cause an inequality of productivity:
<But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm
As yet, he sees that this is still defective of the lower phase, where productivity will once again be punished - this is Marx's irrationality, since where we do actually have an "equality of opportunity", the outcome ought to be immaterial, since it is fair (especially in the classless context he puts it in). So then, Marx's idea to create an equality of economic outcome is a flaw in his logic, which we have to be honest about - and if the inequality of outcome is a result of the equality of individuals, maybe it will result in forcing individual equality, and so Jordan Peterson jumps ahead, but has the right idea.

Bump

The last chance disappeared in WW1. It's been over.

DIRIGSME WON

>>2806868
to be nice to those people,it's really hard to put it in your head that yes 99% of the historical human experience is being hunter gatherer in a tribe,and that we are more than 20x times closer to the start of agriculture than agriculture was to the start of homo sapiens existence

>>2806891
and now theres a big chance we will go back because climate change could destroy everything
It would be funny but also painful

>>2806894
while I understand the sentiment,the planet cannot sustain that lifestyle at all nowadays
And even "back in the day" there was a massive period of famine and deaths caused by the growth of human demographics + disappearance of mega-fauna.
nowadays the only mega fauna that exist are elephants,and whales,which are endangered anyway,so no that is unthinkable even if we were to come even close to 1 million people (forgetting the disaster that would result in a population loss this extreme,it's not just haha people dying,it's a massive logistical nightmare)

>>2806904
so its joever if things go that bad?

>>2805616
Damn, here those pesky red monarchist asiatics are again, not mentioning Socialism or Communism.
What are they like.

>>2804992
Casus belly don't expire, the new government can just disagree with the last one, it's not like "international law" is going to recognise it as a legal invasion or anything

>>2805655

Fair, but I feel that keeping the claims continuously avoids inconsistency in agitprop. That's all.

Instructors from class education centers across the country conducted mobile lectures at numerous units this year.
(Pyongyang, May 9, Korean Central News Agency)
Instructors from class education centers across the country have conducted mobile lecture activities to raise the class consciousness of the masses in over 6,400 units since the beginning of this year.
The commentary and propaganda performances conducted by instructors from the Central Class Education Center at the Heuryeong Coal Mine of the Kangdong District Coal Mine Complex instilled in the miners the stern truth that a bloody settlement with the enemies must be made.

At the Chollima Steel Complex, the Kumsong Tractor Factory, and other locations, instructors from the Susan-ri Class Education Center distributed intuitive propaganda materials on class education topics and conducted class education lectures that combined appealing songs and poems.
While listening to the traveling lectures by instructors from the Sinchon Class Education Center and the South Hwanghae Class Education Center, agricultural workers at Wonam Farm in Sinchon County, Yeonyang Farm in Haeju City, and others were filled with unwavering confidence in victory the more the enemies struggled, and they sharpened their fiery enthusiasm to surely bring about the proud results of a high harvest.

The North Hamgyong Province Class Education Center conducted educational work using educational materials to instill a firm view of the main enemy and concepts of confrontation with the enemy in the new generation who had volunteered for the Fatherland Defense Post.
Officials and instructors in the class education sector, including those at the Class Education Center in Singye County, North Hwanghae Province, as well as in North Pyongan Province, Kangwon Province, and Nampo City, are conducting mobile lecture activities to prepare Party members, workers, and youth students to become vanguard fighters of the class struggle. (End)
http://www.kcna.kp/kp/article/q/65e93d8a71e2fc200437c1459d7e1508d0f07ebe26d8220ad494aa43e8acc2791947eb21f9e7ac157555ce320523fca2.kcmsfwww.kcna.kp

Participants of the 9th Congress of the General Federation of Trade Unions of KorePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2806881
accidental sagee

>>2805910
TRVKE

>>2805295
The Democratic Party is controlled by the bourgeoisie and its financiers to co-opt the masses to serve finance capital. Let's see what Marx and Engels wrote about communists in bourgeois elections:

<Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body.

<Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, 1850, "Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League"

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

<The first great step of importance for every country newly entering into the movement is always the organisation of the workers as an independent political party, no matter how, so long as it is a distinct workers' party. And this step has been taken, far more rapidly than we had a right to hope, and that is the main thing. That the first programme of this party is still confused and highly deficient, that it has set up the banner of Henry George, these are inevitable evils but also only transitory ones. The masses must have time and opportunity to develop and they can only have the opportunity when they have their own movement–no matter in what form so long as it is only their own movement–in which they are driven further by their own mistakes and learn wisdom by hurting themselves.

<Frederick Engels, “Letters: Marx-Engels Correspondence 1886”, Engels to Friedrich Adolph Sorge In Hoboken

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Donkeys are beautiful animals

>>2806840
Actually lol'd. Not only did he just admit to being an opportunist, he considers joining not just the Democratic party but the fucking Republican party as a possibility. Please save us, Marx.

>>2806840
A true centrist