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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1765110264672.jpg (29.42 KB, 446x251, YPG US flag.jpg)

 

The Kurdish nationalist movement’s anti-communism

>By Cansu Oba


>A recent article published by one of the Kurdish nationalist movement’s media outlets has provided an opportunity to revisit certain aspects of the movement’s class character and ideological foundations.

>In reality, this stance is not new. Throughout Abdullah Öcalan’s years in prison, he has repeatedly produced statements and writings that target socialist experiences and the founders of scientific socialism. These have for some time been highlighted in the movement’s own media.


>What makes the current moment significant is that Öcalan is one of the central actors in an ongoing political process in Turkey. The “peace process”—carried out with the open support of the leader of the fascist party and through direct contact between Öcalan, a parliamentary commission, and state officials—has transformed the political environment. At the same time, a former co-chair and current MP of the Kurdish nationalist movement’s party, the DEM Party, declared that the party now effectively serves as the country’s main opposition. All of this signals that the emerging bourgeois political landscape provides fertile ground for the resonance between the Kurdish nationalist movement’s attacks on socialism and the bourgeois politics’ more traditional forms of anti-communism.


>Yet the PKK was never, in reality, a genuinely Marxist-Leninist organization. Founded in the late 1970s, a period in which the left dominated Turkey’s political and social arena, the PKK employed Marxist-Leninist terminology and drew from these values, but it was always, at its core, a national movement.


>Claims that Öcalan has “surpassed Marxism”—when considered together with his recent statement that he has been “waiting 50 years to be understood”—suggest a line of ideological continuity rather than a merely conjunctural shift.


>The Kurdish nationalist movement, now firmly situated somewhere between social democracy and nationalism within Turkey’s political landscape, has strengthened ties with various factions of the bourgeoisie, including some of Turkey’s most prominent capitalist families. Meanwhile, its distance from the republic’s founding prin
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>turkish chauvinist takes on AES Rojava
Disgusting.

>>2586843
>“Historical materialism should replace class struggle with ‘the commune.’ It is more accurate to revise Marxism through this concept. History is not a history of class struggle but of conflict between the state and the commune.”
>“The fundamental contradiction begins with the conflict between the masculine and feminine elements in society. It does not originate from class. Marx’s class-based conflict theory is the main reason real socialism collapsed.”
>“Marx, to live with his wife, sells his coat. He says, ‘Let me write this book so it earns money and saves my marriage.’ Is this what Marxism is supposed to be?”
Daym did Öcalan really say this? is he stupid?

This is an ok analysis from what I've read so far. But I don't get these guys obsessions with "national movements" zeroing out the possibility of genuine Communist intentions. If the Kurds are oppressed, national liberation is perfectly materialist surely.



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why do people believe in this line of reasoning? it doesnt make sense at all
i was talking with some retard on xitter and he told me "marx was wrong, without capitalism you wouldnt even be talking with me right now!"
when did people start saying this? and why???
3 posts omitted.

but its mostly communists who say this

>watch video about "communist atrocity"
>comments "gomunism bad, 90000 gorillion dead"
<mfw the atrocity in question was actually stopped by the communists
many such cases

>>2586813
but why? you can find marxs books for free surely i cant be THAT hard for people to do the bare minimum and read, right?

>>2586842
most marxists dont read marx,
so why would anti-marxists?

>>2586845
good point



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What are the implications of research regularly showing that right-wingers are generally
a) less educated
b) disinclined to reading
c) low in traits like agreeableness and openness
d) lower in cultural capital and status. (though harder to show in a neat chart, it links to b. most readers will know what i mean if i just say they're uncool.)

and the frankly obvious-and-growing divide of political behavior by intelligence throughout the west, with better educated people voting for left/liberal parties and less educated people voting for nationalists and reactionaries.
in this sense, and only this sense, are the right correct to identify the left with liberals. both leftists and liberals are generally educated, enjoy reading, and high agreeableness/openness, the opposite of rightists.

what are the implications as relate to the idea that right-wing fake news and rage-bait are demand lead, with low-openness, low-agreeableness, poorly educated non-readers prefering to watch nonsense not because they're manipulated into it by outside forces, but because this is just what they like

what are the implications for left-wing organizing strategy, which tends to resist trying to appeal directly to the interests of educated knowledge workers (or, indeed, young proletarianized female service workers with degrees) because of the aesthetic pull of historical industrial mass-movements?

what are the implications in the longer run, given that higher education enrolment levels have generally been rising over time, such that more than 50% of British young people now go into further education by age 30? what are the implications of this trend reversing, as is apparently happening in the US?

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>>2547173
>you'll notice for example that societies with clustered I.Q.s like in scandanavia, there is the poverty of mediocrity, while in wider I.Q. fields you get a vital sample. a high-trust, low-crime society is a dead society, and equally "asian" in its standardised teleology.

To me, it sounds like vaguely Nietzschean-sounding, ad hoc cope to deal with the fact that the US has a massive economic inequality problem that translates into a hardcore homeless/drug addict problem in some of the richest cities of the world like S.F., L.A., Seattle, NYC, Philadelphia, Portland…
Singapore and Shanghai are also rich as fuck, are Old Nick's favorite cities, and you will never see such problems accelerated to such a degree there. Even in Hanoi which is poorer, you will never see 50 bended-like-an-U drug addicts on a sidewalk full of trash.
It's really cope for a declining elite of venture capitalists and skilled workers living in SF or NYC who want to keep their huge revenues within an highly US inflated market causing a sharp decline of standards of living for everyone else.
The real mediocrity is the practical solution provided by the Dork Enlightenment: live in gated communities like in South Africa. NYC lost its cultural influence in the world for a reason during the last couple of decades.

>>2547267
there is an inevitability of a well-regulated chaos within a hellenic cosmopolitanism however - if we permit the cosmopolis ("society of the world") then we will create wealth inequality and also wealth opportunity. eroding borders would mean doing away with the artificial stratification of the north/south and so a new way of living would exist. nietzsche for example, expressly promotes race-mixing as a strategy for eugenics (not by preserving purity, but by the process of purification, in combining many aspects into one), which is entirely contrary to current right-wing myopia, which wants to end history altogether. the consciousness of the "radical right" (t. jonathan bowden) is not "conservative", but is a revaluation of all values, and particularly, socratism and christianity. i would say that new thinking can also be old thinking, without of course, spoilation through a "platonism for the masses".

>>2547229
Note how it's framed as a joke about bushes speaking style and flatters the reader's intelligence by relying on them getting the philosophical reference rather than just saying "republicans are retards lol!!" Directly.
(And even then, just calling your opponents dumb is different from actually analysing them on the basis of their stupidity)

>>2546215
>What are the implications of research regularly showing that right-wingers are generally
>a) less educated
>b) disinclined to reading
>c) low in traits like agreeableness and openness
>d) lower in cultural capital and status.

uhhh… it means they're working class

>>2586820
whoops



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Previous thread: >>2507158

Links:

Previous Thread Archives
Thread 1 https://archive.ph/ROnpO
Thread 2 https://archive.ph/f29Po
Thread 3 https://archive.ph/GZj20
Thread 4 https://archive.ph/ZHfse

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB1uqxcCESK6B1juh_wnKoxftZCcqA1go
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>>2584653
>it shouldnt be controversial
but thats not what things sell at their value means, and things(individual commodities) do not sell at their value as reflected in price. total price = total value means that while they have a price, which is an average, they still sell above or below their value, but in the aggregate these deviations wash out.

this is really easy to understand if you dont incorrectly conflate price and value

>>2585182
>Now, how does the model with the equalized profit rates fit together with assuming prices proportional to value? In short, these two do not fit together well and Marx did not believe they do. The stronger the tendency of profit rates to equalize, the more price ratios diverge from labor-input ratios
interpret this statement from marx:
<the sum of the prices of production of all commodities produced in society […] is equal to the sum of their values.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch09.htm
what does this mean to you?
>>2585425
>conflate price and value
total price and value are the same thing to marx, the same as every other economist. we cant progress until this fact is admitted.

>>2585425
>>2585891
to skip ahead, since total price = total value,
the exchange-value (price) of commodities is equal to the ratio of the values of commodities, which is what this entire dispute is about. to marx, values are able to be measured by SNLT, but >>2585182 disagrees, claiming that the ratios of value (which he doesnt define) is different from the ratio of values in exchange (Ax = By). as i have endlessly demonstrated, this is an unfounded perspective. he rejects the words of marx in order to defend marx from himself - its pathological, and you seem to be feeding into it. sad.

>>2585891
>total price and value are the same thing to marx
which is not the same thing as individual price and individual value

>>2586025
who invoked individual prices and values?
the theory of value is inherently macroeconomic, since it attests to the prices of production regulating the equilibrium, by market competition within a selected time-frame. if we read smith, he says that the market price ought to coincide with the natural price given a certain amount of time where competition levels out fluctuation. this would require "commodity" considered generally. marx attests to the soundness of this idea by his reference to thomas tooke's "history of prices" (1857) in "value, price and profit" (1865), where he says that smith's hypothesis proves correct. in murray rothbard's critique of smith , he submits to the notion of general equilibrium by what he calls "long-term normal price". so the inclusion of duration into the concept shows its macroeconomic focus. jevons (1871) considers economy in the same macroeconomic fashion, and its only the austrians by their "microeconomic" or "individualist" methodology that converts empirical proofs for rational axioms. rothbard shows particular frustration at smith for claiming that diamonds inexplicably sell higher than water, and rothbard includes the individual case of a man dying in a desert. an issue in this line of reasoning (which is implicitly humorous) is that rothbard is in some way always assuming disequilibrium, and so an inherently chaotic market. yes, water can sell higher than diamonds, but never in the general sense. its this refusal of the general commodity which is ridiculous.



 

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File: 1764911627889.png (66.93 KB, 600x407, ClipboardImage.png)

behold, the original flag of the Australian labour movement in all its glory

if u don't salute ur a lib

>>2584219
is that a bundle of sticks on the bottom left lmao holy shit

File: 1764916702810.webp (131.1 KB, 1280x720, mpv-shot0006.webp)

>>2584219
SALUTE!

File: 1764917006635.png (11.23 KB, 146x161, ClipboardImage.png)


This is Riff Raff Radical Marching Band. Say something nice about them.



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Probably my most "Idpol" opinion is that on some subconscious level, people pay more attention to what’s happening in Palestine partly because Palestinians are perceived as more Caucasian or white-adjacent compared with the victims of crises in places like Sudan, Myanmar, or Somalia. Again I don’t think most people make this distinction intentionally or out of active racism, it’s just a bias that many groups, including white people and Arabs across the political spectrum, end up participating in without realizing it.
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I saw that reddit thread in your picrel OP, the comments made me sad honestly. They're acting like the US didn't invade Somalia.

>>2583293
the conflict itself is "small" and less important than it used to be but basically all mena crisis revolve around the existence of israel as a point of power projection for imperialism. this was way more obvious when the suez canal was more important but all the recent wars over pipelines are projected out if israel and intended to circumvent this vulnerability. ukraine, venezuela, iran, iraq, afganistan, somalia, libya, yugoslavia, armenia, pakistan. they are all about oil.

and theres also the fact that israel trains cops and special forces. theres sort of a twin thing going on where the cia and mi5 imported a bunch of nazi war criminals(bloodstone not paperclip), special forces was created based on dirlwinger/werewulf, and then it was outsourced to israel very early. thats basically where all of gladio comes from. israel conducted and oversaw the genocide in guatemala for example, and they have twin contribution to things like the school of americas for training death squads. and also israel is used to launder drugs money and weapons for funding terrorism around the world to give the cia plausible deniability. they were a pretty big deal during the cold war for funding and training contras all over africa and were key to south african apartheid, probably their nukes too.

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>>2582476
>Berlin Moscow Axis

>>2586723
The poster was made before the USSR left the Berlin Axis to join the London Axis :)



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A thread focused on discussing the parasocial relationships cultivated by the Almighty Algorithm to generate profit off of our atomization and society's commodification of petty internet drama.
Brace through the hyper-real lacanian void together!

Reminder That None of This Is Real!
ɢʀᴀʙ ᴀ ᴘᴀɪʀ ᴏꜰ sᴘᴇᴄᴛᴀᴄʟᴇs

—————————————————–

CORE THEORY
>The Society of the Spectacle (1967) by Guy Debord
📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
📺 • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blWjssVoUQ

<The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction (1936) by Walter Benjamin

📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm
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>>2586389
HAHAHAHAH

Those Streamer Awards were the most cringey and awkard shit I've seen today

>>2586685
Also they had this Tourette streamer there but I don't if it's real or acted

>>2586685
>>2586693
Turns out on-screen comedic abilities for your little community doesn't translate to real-life standup skills. Though showing up to an American award show with a Mao suit is based.




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602 posts and 136 image replies omitted.

>>2586626
It's more of a clergy thing tbh

>>2586626
I'm only practicing proletarian astrology. I don't dabble in the dark arts.

What would be the Chinese pasta dish to replace Macaroni's name? Ramenoni?

China is an example of solar punk working

>>2586646
One of the problems that haunts Green parties in the west is that porkies who sell solar panels are just as cuntish as porkies who sell oil.



 

I’m honestly curious to know what exactly makes the PMC (university professors, doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, artists, those types of people) adhere to the belief system they do. Namely, the psychology behind what’s often termed as “petit-bourgeois radicalism.”

I recently read through two of Caleb Maupin’s books (The American Years of Lead and the one on Trotsky and the Neocons). Maupin asserts that intellectual elites (PMC) are heavily into salon culture and edgy things that have aristocratic connotations. For instance, intellectual elites (PMC) are the ones who hold an overly-romantic view of revolution and romanticize terrorism and political violence. They’re the ones that conjure up images of a big apocalyptic revolution similar to the Christian rapture whereby every little aspect of the existing society is destroyed. He also heavily emphasized that the PMC hates the genuine working/class, because they see them as a threat to their power, so they deliberately manipulate working-class movements in order to offset and eventually dissolve them. Plus, they love sexual promiscuity and use “leftism” in order to promote it.

Last night, I watched a video on Sublation Media between Doug Alain and Chris Cutrone. Cutrone made the point that the PMC romanticize terrorism, mass destruction involving killing and raping, and the “noble death” because the PMC are “gangsters.” Not gangsters the way the ultra-rich capitalists are, but gangsters nonetheless.

My understanding is, intellectual elites love these things like violence and terror for the exact same reason they love modern “art” like Jackson Pollock and jazz and rap “music”: it’s all deeply irrational. They reject historical progress, favour the lumpen and those on the margins of society over the genuine proletariat, and promote destruction because they hate rationality. All of the things they promote as “leftism” are actually deeply aristocratic values: it’s the aristocracy that loves violence, sexual indulgence and a rejection of logic and linear time. I see it like this: intellectual elites, being Nietzscheans at heart, hate rationality and linear progress because they see those things as boxes that limit their ability to indulge, but also the fact that they already have their privileged positions and don’t need a proletarian revolution to have their basic needs met. In fact, a proletarian revolution would mean they lose their privileges and end up working in the fields.Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>2586242
What group of idpolers are you talking about? Because I’m seeing none of this in the queer and neurodivergent communities.

>>2586342
I'm seeing it with queers and with neurodivergent people and especially in groups like furries, which are disproportionately both.
Plus random fandoms and obvious ex tumblrites and indeed current tumblrites

If you want a vision of the future imagine the Starbucks union drive furry doing praxis, forever.

>>2583942
There is no "PMC".

>>2583942
>Plus, they love sexual promiscuity and use “leftism” in order to promote it.
Wait until you hear what ordinary proles talk about in break rooms.
Nothing he describes is unique to PMCs anyway (religious eschatological view of The Revolution, obscene enjoyment, fucking around)
>favour the lumpen and those on the margins of society over the genuine proletariat
>sexual indulgence
Sigh

>My understanding is, intellectual elites love these things like violence and terror for the exact same reason they love modern “art” like Jackson Pollock and jazz and rap “music”: it’s all deeply irrational.
Missed this gem.
One of the issues with touching grass is coming back to this place and realizing it's a shithole filled with freaks.



 

>burgerland
>bourgeoisville located outside of a major city
>cant fucking breathe, feeling like i'm about to pass out
>call ambulance
>takes at least 6 minutes to arrive
>arrive at hospital
>put in wheelchair and taken to waiting area
>there's a fucking line
>wait 20 minutes
>get triaged, EKG, wait another 10 minutes
>get a room, blood drawn, wait some more
>see the doctor for like 5 minutes, describe symptoms
>at least an hour later get breathing drug
>get discharged shortly after, can breathe a bit better but still feel like shit and nothing shows up on the bare minimum tests they do
>"how are you getting home?"
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>>2586509
Circumcision is something that should be tossed away and forgotten forever. Unless it's actually medically needed which doesn't seem to be the case most of the time.

>>2586509
>>2586512
You can thank John Kellogg for the popularity of Circumcision in the USA. he thought it along with eating Corn Flakes would stop people from Masturbating.

>>2586520
It wasn't just him. Every money grubbing doctor wanting extra cash pushes it while religiously motivated Judeo-Christians actively try to promote it around the world. All of them work together with Muslims to push heavily flawed studies "proving" it reduces disease and actively stop legislation against it by crying about religious discrimination.

All Abrahamics have to go. Only then will this problem stop.

>>2586572
>It wasn't just him. Every money grubbing doctor wanting extra cash pushes it while religiously motivated Judeo-Christians actively try to promote it around the world.

Yeah but John Kellogg was the most influence in making it popular in the USA in the 19th and 20th centuries. And from there it spread.



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