/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>2583318
>>2583330
I get your frustration but Engels basically said the same about Serbs and other slavs and he was a lot more edgy about it.
The political system American Democrats tried to build over the last few decades is similar to the political system of Austria-Hungary in that minorities are supposed to be the most loyal to the ruling class, see black people voting for establishment democrats more than other races. Many of the politically active gay people on the English-speaking internet also basically fall in line with the pinkwashing because they think it's their way to acceptance. It won't be remembered as a proud moment, it is dumb, but it is dumb that happened before and to far more serious and influential people.

There basically is no point. Honestly unless the Left can seize political power, you ain't gonna do shit to stop Imperialism.
2003 saw the biggest protests in history and did jack fucking shit to stop the Imperial war machine.

>>2583330
>you're saying an entire demographic did that, you are joining in with the scapegoating I'm complaining about
there are radical queers, but in that moment everyone associated queers with white liberal queers, they were in the media, they had prominent positions in the superstructure, and they got on the TV and spread libtard lies. they also got IR degrees, joined western NGOs, and participated in student politics, putting them in the position to be some of the most insufferable people I've ever met.

>that's not faaaaaaaaiiiiiirrrrr
you're over preoccupied with what's fair, what's true, what's morally correct. but you asked why. when we deal with ideology, perception, propaganda, emotion, that shit doesn't make any sense. people, especially taken en masse are extremely irrational.

>Obama himself got called a "kenyan muslim communist" by these reactionaries whose children rebranded themselves as "anti imperialist conservatives."
>queers somehow get singled out as "uniquely" imperialist
>"the gay liberal imperialism"… was a product of a BOURGEOIS IMPERIALIST GOVERNMENT
absolutely. but here's the rub: you can't expect people without political education to understand the distinction, and it's silly to take the position that _western_ or _liberal_ queers with jobs in the superstructure are an oppressed minority.

the discussion about gay rights in communist countries or oppressed nations always skirts the pink revolution in cuba, and instead zeroes in on poor or underdeveloped nations. I'm tired of repeating it but the best thing that could happen to gay people in the third world is stop bombing them, stop forcing them into poverty, stop subjecting them to regime change.

>>2582927
"Anti-war" movements were always bourgeois and reactionary. The loudest voices in those protests were always liberal pacifists and self-centered workers who want the benefits of empire with no drawbacks.

The left wasn't "anti-war" during Vietnam, they were pro-North Vietnam and cheering for America's defeat. The correct communist position is to be agnostic or critically supportive towards wars, to the extent that they lead to the defeat of reactionary powers or civil war/revolution in the imperial core.

>>2583060
this must go hard if you are 19

>>2573816
АНАЛитическая пидоросня

Берем?

>>2573816
Насчет потреблядства.
1. Там был вопрос про экологию в том числе. И говорить: ну, мы не за аскетизм и Маркс выступал против этого… в очках мужик верно в конце высказался, смотрел вчера и уже не помню.
2. вопрос еще в том, что от этого зависит сколько нужно работать по времени. И мне кажется, что если кто-то хочет быть потреблядью, ок. Но у меня должна быть возможность работать меньше. Он хочет, пусть и работает сколько ему нужно. Мне кажется такой ответ гораздо точнее и прощее, если кроме меня с этим кто-то еще согласен. Особенно учитвая, что сейчас нет возможности работать меньше.
3. и это не простой вопрос. Не про аскетизм.. Есть инженерные подходы: должно просто и понятно, тип KISS. И т.п.
4. потреблядство, это не потому что маркетинг, ну или не всегда.

>>2583369
А, еще: вопрос, можно ли работать меньше? Но ведь это вопрос не будущего, он сейчас стоит.

А вот в будущем; а вот люди изменятся; ..

Если ты боишься сказать: будет что-то вроде права работать не более 4 ч в день, а кто хочет, пусть больше работает. То тем самым ты говоришь, что принуждение к труду остается даже там, где труд не производит необходимые вещи.

>>2583373
People hate the ACP because they are a bunch of right-wingers pretending to be leftists in order to try to trojan horse fascism into it. They are a bunch of terminally online idiots pretending to be a movement who pretend to be "Manly Men" for clout. Haz admitted to being more inspired by Dugin and Heidegger than Marx.

>>2583380
Not happening because Zoomers/Alphas have no authentic creativity or counter-culture.
They don't have their own music, they don't have their own aesthetics, they're hyper atomised online. Everything Zoomers claim from hypebeast to hyperpop to Breakcore to Algorave, to all their video aesthetics, fashion etc are just repackaging finge millennial subcultures and Tim and Eric/Adult Swim.
So they gravitate to the left because the left is morally "good" but also counter-cultural. It's why you can see so many Lefty zoomers on here have very Christian style morality rather than Marxism which is an ammoral Science.
>>2583384
Yes, but also it requires very real work and dealing with Normies and actual Proles.
>>2583385
Sure, on anonymous imageboards, but I know how to talk to and work with Normies IRL and not trauma dump on them or talk about online shit to them lmao. In fact IRL you'll find i'm probably the person who LEAST talks about online stuff becaue I'm from old 2004 "Hide your powerlevel" 4chan.
>>2583386
>the ACP are a bigger gaggle of freaks than the average 'wokescold', the very fact they have to try to do normie shit underscores that they aren't normies. freaks pretending to be normal are much stranger than freaks who embrace their role as freaks.
Maybe, I'm not in the US so haven't seen them personally and maybe ASPD roidhead Haz is what they're all like, but from their videos, they seem to do a good job talking to normies and truckers and such without being offputting and obnoxious, more than you can say than
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLQNUVmq3o
or
>>2583373
these types.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2583391
>you'll find i'm probably the person who LEAST talks about online stuff becaue I'm from old 2004 "Hide your powerlevel" 4chan.
I guarantee you people you interact with find you weird, you're fucking delusional lol

>>2583393
Nope, I hide my powerlevel and present as a complete normie IRL. I talk about football, rugby, cricket, movies, snark and gossip shit, working out etc. I only ever talk about politics when it's brought up to me, and I never talk in Marxist lingo or whatever, I always present my political views as just "Yeah I think they should just nationalise these finance companies, why not have them earn money so they can lower taxes?".
Why in fuck would I talk about weird imageboard shit and online stuff? That's why I'm here when I'm bored at work and have nothing to for.

>>2583387
Call me a liberal if you want, but I draw the line at LARPer. Every line of serious work that I have written since 2016 has been written, directly or indirectly, against LARPing and for practical action, as I understand it.

You chide "autistics and BPDs" for "never tak[ing] organizing seriously" but tell me: who is really taking organizing seriously? name names. Having a party that puts out inane "demands" on behalf of a working class that doesn't know it exists and wouldn't follow it if they did is not "serious" organizing, it is LARPing, it is self-indulgence far worse than anything a mentally ill weirdo on twitter could conjure. Seriousness requires being oriented around practical action, not around duplicating the structure of your favorite foreign/historical communist party in different conditions so that you, the true alid of Marx, can be general secretary and set the line.

>>2583391
You are falling into an aesthetic trap, transhistorically imagining miners as normal people and service workers with blue hair as weirdoes. You take no account of age, no account of how little people care if you have dangerhair and piercings, no account of how little these aesthetic things matter in a world where we barely bother with subcultural uniforms. If you have your revolution, it is going to look ridiculous. We are living in a ridiculous age. Even then: you ignore just how demonized the miners were, or how much class spite exists in these isles. They look nice and normal in your 40 year old photos, sure, but that doesn't mean a British normie circa 1984 is going to see them as anything other than uppity communist scum.

With that said: The organized Labour left were a gaggle of liberals and cowards dogmatically opposed to communism, barely interested in socialism, and only briefly flirting with social democracy in the face of the 1970s energy crisis. The miners were fighting to save a dying industry* and, at a push, to get Labour's 1974 manifesto implemented. Not to bring about Soviet power.
You are living in the aftermath of their caution, their excess, and their blundering love for one of the world's shittest "social democratic for 25 minutes" parties. It is harsh: their complete and utter failure iPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2583337
It's GDP, not per capita GDP.

Face it: GDP is a clown metric, because it shows growth during literal genocides and when whole cities get erased.

>>2583338
> GDP is a clown metric, because it shows growth during literal genocides and when whole cities get erased.
I was agreeing with you. just adding nuance. You're right that it's not per capita. I'm saying even if it were per capita, and even if it were adjusted for PPP, it would still give the same false appearance, because it would count the wealth transfer from the dead/emigrants to the living people inside the country as "economic activity." I'm elaborating on WHY it's a clown metric.

>>2583245
Red in the Torygraph yesterday that Xi is doing purges of the Chinese armed forces because of 'childhood trauma'. Really crazy stuff.

trump has to TACO on this one right? he's despo to make his long term friendship with his friend, confidant, pimp, and occasional bull jeffery epstein go away and this is working for now, but his base hates it. as soon as this half-baked invasion hits a snag jeff's gonna be right there waiting for him. venezuela isn't going to be a pushover. everyone in the favela has a picture of chavez on his wall. the US has never failed to fail when confronted with an insurgency. the favela, the jungle, the mountains every corner of venezuela is perfect terrain to swallow a patrol without a trace.

he's unpopular now, bodybags aren't going to help. he's gotta know he's cooked.

>>2583351
I don't understand how china prosecuting corrupt government officials and corrupt businessmen is perceived as a weakness. look at the west and how successive corruption scandals have completely eroded trust in our governments, prestige abroad, all of the infrastructure and services that feed growth and wellbeing.

fuck, look at israel. corruption got them into a soft civil war, then into a genocide, now both, and it's ultimately going to cost them their state.

the other day there were fires in hong kong. it's been nearly a decade since the grenfel tower fires and not a single person has been prosecuted. in hong kong the party started cuffing the developers the next day.

>>2583366
I would say 60% chance he has to TACO for practical reasons, 30% chance of a single nothingburger strike followed by retaliatory nothingburger strike followed by ceasefire like in Iran, but there's a 10% chance that he and his cabinet go on an insane streak and genuinely believe they can score a quick and easy victory like in Iraq.

I'm not a Zionist so PLEASE don't ban me for this.

I've never understood why the western left places so much significance on Israel-Palestine. There are comrades whose ENTIRE "leftist persona" is Palestine and I've never understood it. Geopolitically speaking, the conflict matters very, very little to global capitalism. This idea that the Arab World can only become socialist if Israel becomes Palestine again is absurd. Saudi Arabia vs. Iran is a much bigger conflict in the SWANA than Israel-Palestine.

>>2582914
Fuck you if you believe we need to know the whole world as if its not a system that perpetuates these problems

>>2583293
>Geopolitically speaking, the conflict matters very, very little to global capitalism
shalom! +7k shekel were sent to your bank account. yeah i do wonder who runs the banks who is in the heavy metals business despite having no mines and in the diamond business despite having no mines and in the surveillance tech industry and who is the most important western base in the middle east securing chaos and cheap oil i do wonder indeed

>>2583355
You do realize those corporations will just move somewhere else if Israel dissolves, right?

>>2583358
Then why dont they do it and prefer to genocide people and have perpetual wars if its so easy?

>>2555882
They're not scared of Trump, they agree with him uncritically in most respects. Only thing they don't like is the tariffs. For the Silicon Valley/private equity vampires JD Vance would be the perfect president because he would do everything Trump is doing but dump the tariffs. Tariffs are a uniquely Trump quirk and not a core element of the larger right-wing project, he's been obsessed with them for his entire life.

AI moderation is fundamentally retarded but is still programmed to keep shit like this down given enough time and reports. Flightfromsyracuse's anti-Indian video was taken down in a week because everyone in Mumbai saw it and took it down in anger, I think the poop festival vlog did too. The problem is that YouTube AI mods are retards that flag simple basic words but still cannot take down propaganda in time before it reaches 100k views.
>Instagram reels being full of nazi content and its comment sections being bombarded with racism is something that's become infamous but that seemed to have happened almost overnight.
Didn't Intagram reels have a full day of gore or something?
This is just what happens when new untested "AI code" is added in. I wouldn't worry about it.

Dear mods please add Super Saging to /leftypol/ already threads like these don't require the catalog space. This barely even belongs on /isg/

>>2555799
Is this not an admission that your views can only spread in carefully curated environment? What would happen to your movement if it was censored?

>>2555799

It's only among white gen z, all the other races end up on the left, with the exception of some manoisphere stuff.

>>2556082
american years of lead

>>2581998
marx wants to overcome the concept of value by overcoming the abstraction of labour in exchange (e.g. via central planning). thats why he doesnt consider labour certificates "money", and so we can call them coupons. of course, you would call it slavery to be paid a salary in coupons, but in communism, this is "freedom", apparently. marx also states directly that labour must be exploited by the state in the form of surplus labour and taxation to expand production. thus, i call marx's communism "state capitalism".
>>2582003
price = exchange-value = SNLT
an easy marxist formula. lets read this:
<the sum of the prices of production of all commodities produced in society — the totality of all branches of production — is equal to the sum of their values.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch09.htm
i.e. total price = total value
this is why as marx says, whatever is sold above value must be balanced by what is sold below. when considered totally of capital composition therefore, the rate of surplus value is able to be determined so as to measure the value of commodities:
<C = c + v + s
as regards your elevator analogy, its still true that the average is affected by varying quantities, so the rate of profit still equalises at the division of its total sum. but i will ask you - if 5 people are weighed, and the total is 500 kilograms, what is the average weight of the persons? what is true is that a larger sample size creates better results, but averages exist nonetheless.

so, by reading marx's words directly (i.e. total price = total value), have you accepted that the ratio of values in exchange are measured by SNLT in prices, and that this is how marx intended himself to be interpreted? if not, may you explain why? thanks. 🙂

>>2548723
Workers power within capitalism has very little to do with communism in that case. If this is true, why do MLs insist on political capture before the development of new economic relations?

>>2582249
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

>>2582249
>whatever is sold above value must be balanced by what is sold below.

You said things are sold at value here:
>>2570972
>value is abstract labour
>exchange-value is the quantity of abstract labour
Just to make sure that you really intended to say that, you got asked by post >>2571815 this:
>You say here the ratios of abstract labor going into commodities is equal to their exchange ratios
And you replied:
>>2571906
>theyre the same thing
And later on, you said:
>>2582249
>price = exchange-value = SNLT
Yep, this is literally the same post where you then go on to say things exchange above their value and below it. By the value definition you gave (and have given again and again), this is impossible. Do you want to change your definition?

>>2583248
>You said things are sold at value
to marx, they are, as a component of total price matching total value, by the equalisation of the rate of profit. he writes this explicitly, and you havent denied it yet, so you must be growing in your reason.
>Do you want to change your definition?
its not my definition, its marx's. you have failed to give an alternative definition of "value" from exchange-value. i repeat:
<the sum of the prices of production of all commodities produced in society […] is equal to the sum of their values.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1894-c3/ch09.htm
so then, total value = total price.
what can be more clear? (C = c + v + s)

but please, state your specific criticisms of what im writing, because i want to help you learn. 😮‍💨

I've been having to take my 78 year old grandmother to her doctors appointments lately because she's senile, and everyone else in the family fucked off a long time ago. She's not racist or anything weird like that, just nobody else is willing to take care of her. About a month ago she fell and traumatized her arthritic hand. We thought it was broken but the x rays showed nothing. Turns out her tendons just became massively swolen from the fall, causing immobility in her hand. Now she needs physical therapy but we have to wait another month for her insurance to approve it. Meanwhile, at this appoitnment, I had to fill out all her paperwork for her because she literally can't remember anything anymore and has trouble finding things like her insurance card and her photo ID in her wallet, which has like a whole deck of cards in it. She doesn't know how to use a smartphone or an email so I also have to do sign up to use my email for everything involving her. It's been a total nightmare. I'm actually leaving out some other key details to avoid saying too much about myself. What this experience has made me realize is I don't want to burden my kids with taking care of me when I get old and my wife and I have both privately discussed finding humane ways to commit suicide if it ever comes to that.

>>2582512
> Meanwhile, at this appoitnment, I had to fill out all her paperwork for her because she literally can't remember anything anymore and has trouble finding things like her insurance card and her photo ID in her wallet, which has like a whole deck of cards in it
also it was physical paperwork. like 10 pages, a total nightmare, and it's her writing hand she injured, and also some of the pages were basically trying to get us to sign up for random bullshit having nothing to do with the matter at hand, so I had to read carefully. Forgot to mention that part.

>>2582252
>muh i'd die if i don't have a drink GIB ME DRINK RIGHT NOOOOW

Alcoholics actually believe this lol

>>2583329
I'm not alcoholic, but I have lived with alcoholics, who I find very annoying by the way, but what anon said about withdrawl is true, not in all cases, but in very severe cases of alcoholism.

When someone who is physically dependent on alcohol suddenly stops drinking, their nervous system, which was previously kept suppressed by alcohol, rebounds into a hyper‑excited state. This can lead to, seizures, delirium tremens (DTs), severe confusion, agitation, fever, high blood pressure, rapid heart rate, electrolyte disturbances, cardiovascular collapse. Delirium tremens has a mortality rate of approximately 5–15% without treatment, but this drops significantly with proper medical care.

Now imagine if you had a alcohol withdrawl seizure while driving to work in busy traffic on the freeway, or while standing on a ladder at work. It's very easy to see how this can be lethal by proxy (accidents resulting) but cardiovascular collapse is also lethal. If you don't believe me, ask the doctor next time you go. They'll back me up on this.

>>2583329
t. person that gets headaches when they miss their coffee

>>2568483
Undervalued currency means a currency that isn't allowed to be traded freely on the market, and upon which a downward pressure is exerted by the govt that issues the currency.

>>2568491
No infinite value engines exist in economics, just like no perpetual engines exist in physics. "Undervaluing currency" means there is a way to artificially change value of goods - meaning such a perpetual engine. And we know for a fact that's bullshit, Marx went over examples of such machines in the first chapter of Kapital

>>2563763
>one of the biggest things they teach in bourgeois economics is that "actually 100% employment is BAD!
In the Manifest Marx and Engels are explicit: Equal liability of all to work. 100% employment is explicit socialist policy. Like your image says, the US and UK freaked out about the ITO charter for a reason.

>>2568676
>"Undervaluing currency" means there is a way to artificially change value of goods - meaning such a perpetual engine
I'm not sure I follow.

>>2568483
>They didn't, they got outcompeted by native producers of numerous nations who did the same job cheaper, most notable example of such a nation being China.
once again, you're acting like that's a mutually exclusive explanation. America outsourced BECAUSE they got outcompeted, and America's reserve currency strategy dictated letting this problem get worse because they followed an import based strategy rather than an export based strategy. Past declining empires like the British and Dutch made similar mistakes. The reserve currency thing isn't a meme. These problems all feed into each other. Imperial core capitalists also become seekers of interest and rent, rather than profit, through the process of financialization, which is another reason the industrial base in the imperial core declines. You win power by being more productive, but then once you're at the top you refuse to stay productive, and instead rest on your imperialist laurels, seeking rent and interest, outsourcing production, letting up-and-coming nations outcompete you, and letting money printer go Brrrr because you think you can coup and sanction everyone to death forever.

>>2579947
>leftcom regurgitating unironic anticommunist counterarguments
no contradiction

>>2579947
>It's just nostalgia!! These things can only be explained by my essentialist pseudo psychoanalysis of boomers
Lol and you have the gall to call others libs

>>2579947
>Old who Lived under socialism:Its nostalgia
>young who has a positive view: you dont know your history
Also Ceaușescus popularity is in the youth as well to the point the Romanian government is clamping down on it. Look at this anti-commie burger get upset about some young university students saying positive things about the socialist period. These are supposed to be the most pro-EU

>>2580550

>If you are poor: You are envious.
>If you are rich: You are a hypocrite.
>If you don't have a don't have a degree: You are ignorant.
>If you do have a degree: You are disconnected/utopian.

Anyone care to add to the list? Maybe:

>If you are an incel: You are bitter.
>If you have big family: You had too many kids.
>If you are a worker in the public sector: You are entitled.
>If you are a worker in the private sector: You are resentful and/or lack entrepreneurship.

>>2578889
They've shot him and his wife without trial or anything approaching legality precisely because he actually had high approval ratings