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File: 1788553995650-5.png (154.11 KB, 276x408, Screenshot 2023-12-05 at 8….png)

 

It's time someone said it: Engels was dead wrong in "on the housing question", especially in a US context.

<During the 1870s, a major polemical debate unfolded in Germany’s worker/democratic press on the shortage of housing available to workers in major industrial centres. The influx and increase of the proletariat created a housing crisis. On June 26 1872, Engels contributed the first of a series of articles to the Volksstaat, entitled “The Housing Question.” The last appeared on February 22 1873. Engels’ central point was that the revolutionary class policy of the proletariat cannot be replaced by a policy of reforms, because "it is not that the solution of the housing question simultaneously solves the social question, but that only by the solution of the social question, that is, by the abolition of the capitalist mode of production, is the solution of the housing question made possible." The series criticizes Proudhonism (and petty-bourgeois socialism in general, including Lassalleanism). It also discusses things like the nature of the State, the dictatorship of the proletariat, the eradication of the antithesis between town and country, the solution of the agrarian problem, forms of the socialist reconstruction of society and the tasks of the proletarian party.

Engels argued against other socialists like Proudhon and Emil Sax who argued that widespread working class home ownership was the solution to the housing crisis. Engels actually classified Sax's scheme as "bourgeois socialism" because it aimed state intervention at ameliorating class consciousness without altering overall class relations that much, by "bourgeois-fying" the proletariat through home ownership.

Engels denies that workers even want land and also thinks that if workers owned houses the bourgeoisie will just lower their wages by the amount of the rent they no longer have to pay.

In his haste to prove these non revolutionary class reconciliation schemes can't work and only socialist revolution can actually resolve the contradictions of housing under capitalism. Perhaps that it true in the long run, but that may be centuries. Engels concedes, essentially, that working class homeowners, while not capitalist, are also non proletarian:

>Capital is the command over the unpaid labor of others. The house of the worker can only become capital therefore if he rents it to a third person anPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
34 posts and 6 image replies omitted.

>>2908484
You don't quite understand.
What Engels is essentially arguing is that the wear and tear of landed capital exacts a real value transferable to tenants, which is idiotic.
>>2908488
>Engels here is not advocating for the interests of landowners
Not explicitly, but implicitly.
>>2908458
>>2908481
As for the redirection of surplus value, Engels actually describes the motivation of positive, productive investment occuring at the margin of unyielding rents:
<But if it were possible really to abolish interest by decree, what would be the consequence? The class of rentiers would no longer have any inducement to loan out their capital in the form of advances, but would invest it for their own account in their own industrial enterprises or in joint-stock companies.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/housing-question/ch01.htm
So he contradicts himself; in calling anti-usury laws "medieval" and reactionary, while also seeing them as a means to increase industry. Too, Marx (Capital Vol. 3, Ch. 36) sees that modern industry begins by political and legal acts against usury; as in 17th century England. This is entirely preferable in any case. Imagine if money was used to create jobs rather than just for parasitism. There are no downsides to home ownership, except to the zealous Marxist who demands people to be poor in a sado-masochistic fashion, like the Christian martyrs. I am not exaggerating, either; Engels' entire line of attack against the Proudhonists is that workers owning homes is reactionary, because it makes workers comfortable. Engels was certainly comfortable in his lifestyle, so did this make him less revolutionary? Does the worker who has nothing allow for more or less education? It's clear. Engels expressly writes that he shan't give solutions to the problem, since this would be idle Utopianism; so, he only criticises, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2908494
Isn't that also the argument of "classic" liberals ? That subscriptions and renting are just remnant of the feudal mode of production ? (Especially under an economy where commodities are FOR EXANGE)

File: 1788781460660-2.jpeg (23.79 KB, 588x276, images-1.jpeg)

>>2908498
Not quite, in the historical discourse presented.
We can read Adam Smith (1776):
<As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce. The wood of the forest, the grass of the field, and all the natural fruits of the earth, which, when land was in common, cost the labourer only the trouble of gathering them, come, even to him, to have an additional price fixed upon them. He must then pay for the licence to gather them; and must give up to the landlord a portion of what his labour either collects or produces. This portion, or, what comes to the same thing, the price of this portion, constitutes the rent of land, and in the price of the greater part of commodities makes a third component part.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/smith-adam/works/wealth-of-nations/book01/ch06.htm
As we see, rent is a cost imposed without requirement, and so labourers could only be better off without it. If we continue to Smith's comments on housing rents we read:
<The rent of houses is paid for the use of an unproductive subject. Neither the house nor the ground which it stands upon produce anything. The person who pays the rent, therefore, must draw it from some other source of revenue distinct from the independent of this subject.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/smith-adam/works/wealth-of-nations/book05/ch02b-1.htm
Smith offers a positive solution in part:
<A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2908498
>>2908516
For the larger case, we read in Von Thünen's Isolated State, Part II (1826) that where fixed capital competes for labour, the availability of land determines the rate of wages according to one's ability to move. Marx encounters the same point in Capital Vol. 1, Ch. 33 (1867):
<a passion for owning land prevents the existence of a class of labourers for hire […] So long, therefore, as the labourer can accumulate for himself — and this he can do so long as he remains possessor of his means of production — capitalist accumulation and the capitalistic mode of production are impossible.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch33.htm
A classical liberal, Heinrich Gossen (1854) also wrote that the land of a nation ought to be nationalised, since private rents are exploitative. Of course, Henry George (1878) famously countered landed interests, from a classical liberal perspective. So, the problem of land is the real basis of capitalist production - Marx makes this rather clear, even if he is still against the repossession of land by the dispossessed workers. It is the constriction of land which thereby constricts personal liberty.

>>2907036
The creation of an 'asset economy' of ever-rising real estate prices is a relatively modern invention. It arose as a consequence of neoliberal reforms which opened up real estate to speculation with surplus capital, and offered a 'consolation prize' investment in the absence of real wage or benefits increases.

It's not that Engels was wrong so much as his analysis is out of date. In the 19th century the big concern was scarcity of housing and the overcrowding of the industrial proletariat in urban slums. Real estate speculation was tied to future development. Nowadays we arguably have a surplus of housing, but the question is mainly of price, and real estate is often seen as a commodity first to enable market speculation or rent-seeking for the owner.


File: 1788783879303-7.png (399.8 KB, 900x593, ClipboardImage.png)

 

It turns out Karl Marx and Lenin were bigoted chuds that hated homosexuals & Jews and said uyghur a lot! Why are you still following their hateful ideologies?

The Jewish exodus from Egypt didn't even happen, historically.

do not mix lenin into this


File: 1787677655990-5.png (132.18 KB, 1800x249, ClipboardImage.png)

 

>>>/siberia/818393
> If you want to be really esoteric, Marxism is advanced feudalism.
No. Marxism is not advanced feudalism. Feudalism is predicated on aristocrat-serf class relations, whereas Marxism is predicated on the elimination of class relations. On what planet could one possibly come to the "esoteric" conclusion that Marxism is "advanced feudalism?" Even assuming this is inspired by that dumb pop-Economics book from Yanis Varoufakis (Technoefeudalism) that is not even his hypothesis. His hypothesis is that the capitalist countries are becoming Technofeudal, not the AES countries. I am honestly baffled by this take and thought it deserved its own thread, because I did not want to derail the thread I found it in. Where are people getting this idea? Is there a common source for this revision or is it arising out of pure vibes?
17 posts and 7 image replies omitted.

>>2900364
Somebody make on KF those iceberg slopvideos explaining every entry

>>2900364
Is there an explainer for the iceberg?

>>>/siberia/818332
>Because there is a vested interest in fanning the culture war to distract from class issues.
Smaller steps generate fewer reactionaries

>>2900897
>materialist mathematics
What erm… what is that?

>>2905552
its midwit on midwit violence. i can't tell if you're being serious


File: 1788731600151-3.jpg (131.31 KB, 800x555, two restraints, one lenien….jpg)

 

https://duihua.org/two-restraints-one-leniency-part-i-chinas-ethnic-minorities-and-criminal-law/
>China’s criminal policy of “Two Restraints, One Leniency” (liangshao yikuan 两少一宽) was enacted during the administration of reformist leader Hu Yaobang (1982-1987). Derived from a Soviet-era policy that granted regional autonomy and preferential protection to ethnic minorities, the policy had the intended purpose of strengthening the political loyalty of ethnic minorities in the multi-national country. Hu believed that granting sufficient autonomy to members of ethnic minority groups was indispensable for safeguarding national unity. To this end, Hu improved ethnic representation in politics across autonomous regions. This progressive policy was reversed by Deng Xiaoping and Hu’s successors. In 1984, Hu pushed through the Central Committee Document Number Five, a new criminal policy which called on law enforcement to be lenient towards criminal offenders from ethnic minority groups by making fewer arrests and handing down fewer executions and lighter sentences to ethnic minority offenders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liangshaoyikuan
>Liangshaoyikuan (Chinese: 兩少一寬; lit. 'two fewers [in arrests and executions] and one leniency [in sentencing]'), was a policy of the government of the People's Republic of China of giving leniency in charges and sentences with regard to minorities as compared to Han for the same criminal offenses.[1] The policy was enacted in 1984 by Peng Zhen and Hu Yaobang. On July 9, 2010, a statement jointly published by the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party, State Ethnic Affairs Commission, and United Front Work Department suggested that "everyone should be equal before the law, and criminals should be punished regardless of their ethnicity". However, they do not have the legal authority to challenge a policy implemented by the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, a higher authority; the policy has thus never been officially repealed.
9 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2908174
What is woke?

China is proof you can be woke without being gay 🤔

>>2908489
Jimmy Neutron, transgender, Bud Light, Target, Mexico, Somalia, college campus, woman.

>>2908492
Forgot black people in ads

>>2908490
Don't look chinese male models, they have the same taste as korean


 

Why is it that the surviving members of the George W. Bush administration who acted as the architects of the Iraq War have never faced any legal penalties for what they did?

The 2003 US invasion of Iraq was arguably one of the worst human rights atrocities of the past 50 years. Over 1 million Iraqi CIVILIANS were killed. If that's not a low key genocide similar to Gaza I don't know what is. But it's even worse knowing this war was based entirely on a gigantic lie (a "noble lie" if you will) by some of the slimiest, most diabolical villains ever known to American politics. Yes, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld are dead and rotting in hell. But George W Bush, Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith are still alive. Neocons Bill Kristol, Robert Kagan and John Bolton who were the top dogs in PNAC (Project for a New American Century), which called for massive military spending and preemptive attacks (also a "New Pearl Harbor" which conveniently happened on 9/11) are also still alive. WHY HAVEN'T ANY OF THEM EVER BEEN CHARGED AS WAR CRIMINALS?????

The Straussian cabal is very real and still holds loads of ideological power within American politics. Many Neocons from the Bush II era have now since become Democrats and publicly supported Kamala Harris over Trump on the basis Trump wasn't Neocon enough. These people have names and addresses and have to face some kind of legal penalties so the world can finally have closure and the Neocon war criminals can finally reap what they sowed.
372 posts and 47 image replies omitted.

>>2907298
Kek he also said he read The Road to Serfdom ultimate trash.

>>2907487
*he paid to spank YOU.

Holy shit, how did whiny liberals like TYT become more redpilled on the neocons than most radicals are today?

>>2897086
It's in Pirkei Avos: "revere your teacher as you would heaven".

>>2903543
He says Farabi says that in societies where they don’t rule overtly philosophers should rule over the masses covertly.


 

We often times hear that the biggest problem in Western society today is lack of empathy. Trump, Epstein, covid (eugenics) and the Gaza genocide are all pinpointed as examples of how lack of empathy leads to great atrocities. The most vulnerable and oppressed along is are seen as disposable and people don’t even care about each other anymore.

So my question is: how did we get here?

What factors made it so no one cares about each other anymore, and we’ve largely decided to judge others based on their “usefulness” to us and see them as a means to an end rather than as an end unto themselves. Why did we stop seeing every person as having innate human dignity and worth?

For example, let’s say you have $40 left in your bank account, but AuDHD Aurora needs money for DoorDash because she’s low on spoons and can’t cook; would you give Aurora your last $40 or would you let her go to bed starving? Most people would choose the latter simply because there’s nothing in modern society that reinforces the idea that we need to provide for neurodivergent folks even if it means making a sacrifice. Or the fact covid was allowed to kill millions of vulnerable people simply because no one wanted to stay in lockdown. We prioritize comfort over other human life because we have no normalized moral theory of Justice that makes us want to protect the weak.

You also see this with the notion of “the village” that’s become a popular trope among Gen Z. Everyone laments the fact “the village” no longer exists in modern society, and having a “village” is the only way to protect the weak and vulnerable from social murder, i.e. the whole community takes care of disabled and neurodivergent folks. So why doesn’t “the village” exist anymore and why have all attempts at creating “villages” been unsustainable? What causes a community to stick together and feel a strong sense of obligation to each other?

Empathy needs to be the main focal point of any leftist politics in the near future. That and forming a trauma-informed political program so we can heal from our collective CPTSD.
45 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>2907539
I want mine, I could give a shit about a village, I'm only leftist because I'm broke and a worker, therefore getting mine involves workers being benefited.

Empathy is a spook.

>>2908418
You're a spook

>>2907827
back to r/neoliberal

>>2907539
you're not so much dealing with a human universal as with two other forces
  1. rightism is a mental illness. i do not say this glibly or hysterically, we can read off, ipso-facto, from the actions of rightists that their combination of low openness and low agreeableness is pathological. this is not, in itself, a partisan point. (there are benefits to being high openness and low agreeableness, and many successful inventors, businesspeople, etc, are in this area. this is a disagreeable personality type, and one that often falls into the rightoid coalition, but it is not a pathological one and broadly it remains rational and open to argumentation.)
  2. the scope and scale of contemporary society and the methods used to ensure that decisions do not have any individual accountable for them. thus, even if every individual in a ministry is opposed to the government's gaza policy, each one feels powerless to alter it, and the policy stands. not because they are not empathetic but because the system has been purposefully designed to prevent their empathy from altering policy. people are, as a rule, taught to think of themselves as powerless or simply doing something necessary. (this is basically why liberals, who are not mentally ill in the sense that rightists are, allow themselves to be strung along trying to compromise with the clinically insane.)


(yes, yes, it is an insult to the other clinically insane people to compare them to rightists, i know.)

>>2907716
this is a nice story as such, but one of the theories for why primitive societies go after witches is that it's a face-saving way to get rid of old people who stick around too long.

>>2908126
it does, it's just directed into different channels. the fundamental difference in modern society is scale. it's easy to care for all 30 people in your little group, possible to know of all 1,500 people in a small town, and it's impossible to care for all 300,000 people in even a small city.
but it's still easy to care for 30.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.


File: 1788551213801-3.jpg (32.23 KB, 450x450, chudjak.jpg)

 

>I support Western civilization except for democracy, human rights, equality, secularism, separation of church and state… I actually just like Greek statues.
42 posts and 9 image replies omitted.

>>2907064
All those things are based

>>2908349
Other than AES exactly
>>2907061
>BLACKS BLACKS BLACKS

>>2908303
>I am no longer on the "left".
because your sexual pathologies and anxieties (obsession with beautiful lady😍🥰s, interracial sex, fear of the other, girl dick and so on) are related to capitalism and existing power structures but not their abolition.
>How come I can support trillion dollar corporations and Israel, and still be "left",
Literally who nowadays? Corpo-zio libs are a (primarily?) US phenomenon, and nowadays Israel's reputation is so down the shitter everywhere it's seen as a near universally "right" thing to support.
You don't give a fuck about Palestinians anyway. You're just mad because you think da j00s forced your stacy oneitis to fuck Tyrone.

>>2908348
No, that's because the male was never expected to do it, traditionally it's the woman your son marries that move into your household (you also received a dowry from the woman's family) and take care of you, but nowadays marriage is at an all time low and nobody respect muh tradition.
India still has dowries for arranged marriages even tho it's illegal btw.

File: 1788767052711-0.jpg (350.19 KB, 1255x780, Asset_1_1582725907-1255x78….jpg)

>Democracy
Universal suffrage didn't exist anywhere until the 20th century.
>Human Rights
Human Rights are encoded into the language of the French Constitution (1789) but they are only realised with the UN Charter (1948); so, another 20th century invention.
>equality
Formal segregation of races was only overturned in the 20th century, as well as sexual egalitarianism. Really, it is only in the 21st century that we get marriage equality, and so on.
>secularism
Religious customs and Blasphemy laws existed throughout Europe and America until the 20th century. Civil theocracy is the rule.
>Church and State
There has never been a non-Christian American President, and there was only a non-anglican Prime Minister in the UK less than a decade ago, after 3 centuries of establishing the position.

By "The West", you are entirely referring to the post-war era (1945–).


File: 1788542215805-0.png (423.38 KB, 1200x799, andy-burnham-filmed-playin….png)

 

You'll never live like common people
You'll never do what ever common people do
Never fail like common people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And then dance, and drink, and screw
Because there's nothing else to dooo
58 posts and 13 image replies omitted.

File: 1788730917816-3.jpg (229.72 KB, 1179x1121, 1788730521146176.jpg)

https://youtu.be/W_kSfXbmwS4

Penny for the guy

File: 1788748955127-7.jpg (35.85 KB, 329x504, dracula-novel-cover.jpg)


>>2908301
Racist british propaganda, every copy should be burned

>>2908301
Good Gothic novel although some of the racial stereotypes about Eastern Euros, Gypsies, and the attitudes towards women are dated.
Also some of the dates and little details weren't quite correct or consistent throughout.
The impact it's had on the Horror and Gothic genres is legendary, worth reading if you care about classic literature at all.

>>2908302
>Racist british propaganda
He was Irish actually.


File: 1787790712389-9.jpg (54.85 KB, 744x1000, 81Ex7w8IEPL._AC_UF1000,100….jpg)

 

>Bye, bye, Microsoft! – edition
https://www.zdnet.com/article/china-drops-windows-for-linux/

The Chinese question is: how does a comfy non-imperialist nation transform itself into a global socialist model that can be reproduced and adopted by the rest of the world, without either reproducing the aggressive and counter-productive policies of the USSR or appearing toothless, while resolving the contradictions of the so-called first world FOR THEM and liberating them from capitalist domination, therefore using the empire's collapse to accelerate material conditions to enable the global revolution?

<A thread for the harmonious discussion related to the saviour of socialism, the uplifter of nations, the king of cooperation, the soviet of SOVL, the enjoyer of empathy, the ally of Africa, the demigod of development, the bureaucracy for banter, the prince of ping pong, the lobotomizer of labour aristocracy, the protector against proxy wars, the sponsor of sophisticated sciences and culture, the guarantor of gommunism, the Proletarian Dictatorship of Chynah™.

Original threads:
https://archive.ph/S2XYA
https://archive.ph/Ytckv

leftypol.org archives:
https://archive.is/https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/30501.html

bunekrchan.xyz archives:
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
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File: 1788668698524-2-0.png (112.37 KB, 340x340, __nicole_genshin_impact__2….png)

File: 1788668698524-5-1.pdf (5.29 MB, 174x255, China's Socialist Economy ….pdf)

File: 1788668698524-4-2.epub (231.68 KB, Collected Works of Xue Mu….epub)

I was looking through some old files on my external SSD and found a couple of things from Xue Muqiao, an economist from the early Deng era. Enjoy reading! ^_^ I just hope this place isn't just all Reddit newfags that don't read at this point. <_<

>>2904597
I think it’s just due to communism is rising and when communism the elites push fascism so both extremes rise or whatever

>>2905070
Socdem love

>>2905070
Basically what Jiang is saying is, "Mao didn't kill enough people".

I don’t like China, it’s people, government, culture, food, or cigarettes.


File: 1788563619493-2.png (330.47 KB, 400x500, ClipboardImage.png)

 

Personally I grew up as a republican and then slowly became more left leaning over time but I was never a neo-nazi or anything like that. It feels like on this site there's an odd amount of sympathy towards /pol/tards that I just don't understand. Maybe it's because a lot of you see your past selves in them but I have absolutely nothing in common with them. Never in my life have I ever been genuinely racist or anything like that. There's been multiple times on this site I've had people get mad at me for hating on rightoids it's just wild to me. I feel like we need more guys like me around who genuinely hate these people lol
>pic unrelated
23 posts and 5 image replies omitted.

File: 1788678876844-3.png (282.61 KB, 359x478, 1760962724861078.png)

i'm a current chud
nazbol gang assemble

>>2907759
Revisionism is what happens when theory collides with reality. Ecological biology is revisionist darwinism, quantum field theory is revisionist bohrism, and if socialist praxis cant adhere to everything written by oh my Marx, so be it.

Lack of punctuation indicates that OP is burger

j

>>2907754
>i reject feminism
<you are probably sexist
>you're dividing the proletariat not me
why do you people never understand you're the ones doing the dividing? che was less reactionary then you are. maybe you need to drive a motorcycle somewhere.


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